[pypy-dev] chat log

[Guido van Rossum]

Here's the log from today's chat.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)

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<gvanrossum> who's sp?
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<sp> help set log
<sp> set logfile
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<lac> hi there
<hpk> hi laura
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<lac> hi Jacob
<gvanrossum> who are hpk & sp? I think I know everyone else :-)
<lac> hpk is Holger
<gvanrossum> hi holger
<theller> hi all, I'm just hanging around here to not miss anything interesting.
<newbie> Ahh, I seem to have joined the channel. I'm not up to speed with irc...
<gvanrossum> newbie: yes, you're on. we see you.
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<lac> hi tim
<tim_one> Hi, Laura!
<lac> Ok, now if somebody could explain to me how you log a meeting ...
<gvanrossum> I'm logging. I can mail the log afterwards.
<lac> great.
<lac> thank you.
<gvanrossum> on w/ the show
<lac> Christian is coming.  Armin doesn't have a connection until Monday
<lac> but Armin says any day for a sprint is fine with him.
<lac> He's coming.
<sp> Hi, sp is Samuele Pedroni (mostly in lurker mode)
<gvanrossum> hi samuele
<hpk> so what are the latest plans for the next sprint
<lac> Gothenburg is very nice at the end of May.  I think it would be a great place to have a Sprint.
<gvanrossum> I don't think I can make it, alas.
<gvanrossum> But I might make it near EuroPython -- if that conference is still on (MAL expressed some fear about that since nobody seems to be organizing)
<lac> but a Sprint before EuroPython is lookiung possible for you?
<lac> and what about you Tim?
<tim_one> Unknown.
<tim_one> I haven't had time to read the email on this.
<hpk> i want to come but i have to catch up a lot as i haven't done much computer stuff the last two month
<lac> things are happening with EuroPython. it is still on. we have enough talks now
<hpk> lac: is end of may not too close to europython, timewise?
<lac> Though we still want one from you Samele, if you are willing :-)
<lac> no, Europython is end of June
<lac> so it would be one whole month.
<gvanrossum> ok. I suppose I could arrive Sat June 21 and sprint on Sunday, Monday, Tuesday.  You'd only have to buy two days of my time. :-)
<jacob> Early May is too soon for us to get all the pieces together. Armin can't come in mid-May.
<lac> So the question is, are there enough people who want to come in the end of May and can make it.
<hpk> yip
<hpk> so far it's only armin and me, you and jacob, right?
<jacob> Michael wants to come too.
<lac> no christian and micheal as well
<jacob> And Christian, if he has the time...
<hpk> ok, that would be a good
<gvanrossum> there are two christians? :)
<jacob> I think we are both talking about Tismer.
<lac> alas, only one christian... 2 would definitely speed development
* gvanrossum was joking. there is only one christian, and he is tismer
<hpk> am i right that not much has happened in the last weeks with pypy-development?
<jacob> In any case, I think that would be enough for a successful sprint.
<lac> Christian said that he was coming to this meeting, but he also may believe that it is an hour from now
<lac> you are correct.
<hpk> Then we should start some discussions on pypy-dev in the next two weeks to set themes for the sprint
<lac> Jacob and I have been on the road, Christain has been consulting for money, and Armin has been moving to England
<lac> this made for a quiet month
<jacob> Yes, we need a plan before the sprint starts, so that things can get underway quickly.
<hpk> i am a bit uneasy with another sprint following end of june
<jacob> An important thing to start with is to set dates.
<hpk> and the end-of-june/europython sprint definitely makes sense
<jacob> Maybe, maybe not. It seems to be difficult to make something cost-effective in Charleroi.
<hpk> oh
<hpk> I had an ok-hotel for 15 euro and there should be university rooms, not?
<jacob> The people there can't give any alternatives to the conference center, and that is hideously expensive.
<lac> what is difficult is finding a place we can do it in.  Denis Frere who lives there hasn't got back to me.  I will talk toi the chamber of commerce
<lac> next week.  according to Tom  there are plenty of suyitable buildings
<lac> but he doesn't know names or phone numbers
<hpk> the last zope3-sprint in charleroi didn't have nice facilities
<gvanrossum> but were they adequate?
<gvanrossum> where was it?
<jacob> Well, lets focus on the matter of do we want two sprints or not.
<lac> who ran it? so we can ask them where?
<hpk> in some university place that felt like a jail
<hpk> Denis Frere
<lac> ok, he is supposed to be getting back to me.
<gvanrossum> it must be the only option he knows about
<hpk> the place could be turned nicer if we bring coffee machines etc.
<hpk> Tom is not familiar with Charleroi?
<gvanrossum> dunno
<hpk> jacob: i have a preference for only the sprint at europython if we can manage that
<lac> well, the nice thing about Gothenburg is that we have access to some free facilities with decent bandwidth, and planes to here from Europe are cheap, and we have lots of youth hostels and low budget places to stay
<hpk> how is gothenburg in september?
<lac> tom does not know a lot about charleroi, no, he is from a different part of belgium
<lac> sometimes rainy, but usually very pleasant
<gvanrossum> I probably can't make it in Sept, already planned a week's vacatiln then, don't want another trip close to it
<hpk> it seems that more people could come to a europython-sprint but organization is more difficult :-(
<lac> yes. but I don't see why we cannot have 2 of them
<lac> It would be ncie if all interested people came to all sprints, but I don't thinkt hat is possible
<lac> and I think we have enough interest in a May sprint in addition to a EuroPython one -- though I wish that Christian and Michael were here
<hpk> ok, i am not against the may sprint. i am just not sure that it really works to have two sprints so close to each other.
<tim_one> It can make good sense if at least one core contributor attends both.
<lac> you have been to more than I have.  why doesn't/wouldn't it work?
<hpk> because everybody is complaining about time problems all the times?
<hpk> anyway, if at least armin and michael are ok with attending both, then why not.
<hpk> could we make the europython-sprint in bruxelles?
<lac> I don't see why not
<gvanrossum> works for me. at least there's something to do at night. and there are more universities (e.g. the one that did FOSDEM)
<hpk> just an idea that we don't have to stick to charleroi
<hpk> gvanrossum: yes, exactly
<lac> ok, whom do we know that comes from there?
<lac> that can help with organising? or do you know the area well Holger?
<lac> is Nicolas Pettieux from there?
<hpk> we could ask the fosdem-people for help
<hpk> they get large facilities for free asfaik
<gvanrossum> right
<lac> great.  I don't know any of them perspnally. do you(s)?
<hpk> The Story
<hpk>  Contact FOSDEM
<hpk> -- MEMBERS ZONE --
<hpk>   Login: 
<hpk>  Password: 
<hpk>  Become a member
<hpk>  Why register?
<hpk> How to contact us...
<hpk> You can contact us at info at fosdem.org.
<hpk> There's also a mailing list available to help you find accomodation, transportation, etc. with other Fosdem visitors.
<hpk>  This mailing list is for people interested in the Open Source & Free Software Developer's European Meeting. If you are looking for a lift to come, or if you want to be updated regularly, subscribe to this list now! :-)
<hpk> Using Osdem
<hpk> To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the Osdem Archives.
<hpk>  
<hpk> To post a message to all the list members, send email to 
<hpk> osdem at lists.raphinou.com.
<hpk>  not really but i think sending mail to osdem at lists.raphinou.com might work
<hpk> oops. soory
<hpk> don't know how that happened. anyway we could send mail to osdem at lists.raphinou.com
<lac> sure. it is just nice to ask somebody you already know, if you already know somebody.
<gvanrossum> I met one of the organizers. I could write ONE introductory mail.
<gvanrossum> who should I introduce them to?
<lac> I am thinking we already know Nicolas Pettieux, and this looks like his sort of thing.  He is with the Association Electronique LIBRE http://www.ael.be/
<lac> do you want to run this, Holger?
<hpk> i'll try but can't invest much time in the next two weeks
<lac> Do you want me to try to organise it then?
<hpk> sure. i can probably support you.
<lac> thanks holger.  
<hpk> i'll see if i can bring a beamer
<lac> Ok. I will get in touch with Nicolas, and if that isn't already a connection, I will ask you, Guido, to write a letter referring them to me, ok plan?
<gvanrossum> ok, let me know
<hpk> cool.
<hpk> let's inform the pypy-dev list about both opportunities and i'll reopen the pypy-sprint list soon
<hpk> oh. i just remember that armin must know some people in belgium :-)
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<ReportLabRobin>  The last EuroPython thing had sponsor ship of some kind from Aragne, www.aragne.com (Zope/Python firm)
<lac> yow what happened?
<lac> that is Denis Frere's company
<ReportLabRobin>  OK already involved then
* lac nods. but thank you.'
<lac> so does anybody else want to talk about something or do we wrap up this meeting?
<gvanrossum> sell sprinting to Tim
<gvanrossum> (& to me)
<gvanrossum> i.e. why should tim & guido be there?
<lac> well, I don't think that there is anybody who knows Python better than you do
<hpk> because you need to work with armin and the others to implement python  in python
<gvanrossum> yes, and there are 1000,000s of projects that need us for the same reason. why should we be interested in this one?
<lac> so when we go out and re-create the universe, it sure helps to have somebody there who can say, NO NO we tried that and it was a foolish idea!!
<lac> Aha. I see.
<gvanrossum> hpk: "you need"???
<lac> If we can pull this off, then we can fix 2 problems
<lac> one is the speed one, which is of course interesting.
<lac> but I think the more interesting one is that, if we implement object spaces properly
<hpk> gvanrossum: sorry, bad german-english translation (wasn't meant as "must")
<lac> then we can make a real crack at distributed processing, 
<lac> which I think is what Amoeba was doing, correct me if I am wrong.
<lac> The EU is very interested in things like this on 2 fronts
<lac> the first is that it makes handhelds easy in some ways.  This is
<lac> what Armin is getting funded to do right now, so this is precisely where he is going with this
<lac> the other is that you can stake down an object space and then say 'use this if you need features of such and such a date'
<lac> and then MIX them.
* gvanrossum doesn't see the connection between "py in py" and all that.
<lac> which means backwards compatibility will be very different from what it is now, because people can keep old object spaces
<lac> ok
<lac> This is Armin's talk, so if he mails you and says that I am misundestanding, you know whiom to trust :-)
<gvanrossum> maybe you can get armin to try to sell it to me...
<lac> If Armin is correct in what is accomplishable in  data analysis as for optimisation, then
<lac> certainly I can.
<lac> but if Armin is correct than we do not have to wed ourselves to teh values that were decided for C.
* gvanrossum will believe it when he sees Armin's mail.
<lac> ok. seems like a plan to me.
<hpk> i think a good reason to come  would be if you are interested to implement python within python
<lac> I will have Armin write you.
<lac> Guido's problem is that he is interested in enough things to fill 2 dozens lives.  how to prioritize?
<gvanrossum> hpk: but there are many approaches to that, and I need to know if I believe in this one. Also, it isn't worth my while if I can't work on the project afterwards.
<gvanrossum> lac: nice way of saying it.  I might use that one some day. :-)
<lac> Why wouldn't you be able to work on it afterwards?
<gvanrossum> lac: because I am paid to do zope work only
<lac> be my guest
<gvanrossum> no thanks, sweden doesn't work for me & my family
<lac> Right. I am working on getting EU funding for this.  If this works we can see about hiring you to do this more often
<lac> I meant be my guest to use the quote, though you were welcome the other way.
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<gvanrossum> ok. :)
<lac> How good are your ties to universities/research institutes in the Netherlands?
<gvanrossum> poor. the only place I know is CWI.
<hpk> lac: why are you asking?
<lac> Because it might matter in terms of getting EU Commission funding
<hpk> lac: i am working in rotterdam and infrae probably has some connections
<hpk> i can talk to martijn and kit blake
<lac> They like it when you say 'researcher from place x WANTS  to collaborate with researcher from place Y'
<lac> please send cash for travelling scholars
<gvanrossum> mind if I tune out now?
<lac> no, this is fine.
<hpk> thanks for your time
<lac> thanks for your time
<gvanrossum> NP. I'll save & mail the log now.
<lac> thank you