[pydotorg-www] List of alternative Python implementations
M.-A. Lemburg
mal at egenix.com
Thu Nov 5 18:33:15 EST 2015
On 06.11.2015 00:08, Alexander Walters wrote:
> They don't implement....anything. Guido implemented it.
Actually, it's Guido and the Python core dev team who implemented it
and the cast of thousands who help by sending in patches.
> but it is SUPREMELY unhelpful to list them as stand alone third party implementations of python,
> SINCE THEY ACTUALLY REQUIRE ANOTHER PYTHON TO RUN! You CANNOT run a Nuitka module without libpython
> being installed. 'standalone mode' simply links against an already existent cpython.
>
> So while technically It MIGHT be considered another python (It isnt. Its a CPython tool), it helps
> no one to tell them its another implementation of the language.
I'm not sure why you are getting all upset. There's nothing
to be dogmatic about.
All of the implementations I listed below under "Alternative CPython"
use Python C code and the Python stdlib in one way or another -
that's why they are listed as *alternative* CPython. Unlike the already
listed repackaged Python versions, these implementations apply
changes to CPython or extend it in various way (by e.g. adding a JIT
compiler, adding additional syntax or compiling part of your
Python program to Python C extensions).
Now, if you want to continue the discussion, please provide constructive
input. Otherwise, we can agree to disagree and stop the thread
right here.
> On 11/5/2015 04:49, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
>> On 05.11.2015 00:14, Alexander Walters wrote:
>>> To be absolutely clear, Nuitka and Cython are not implementations of the language... because you
>>> cannot run anything with them. Can you really call it a language runtime if you cant run anything
>>> with them? they are tooling. It is unhelpful to new users to list this tooling as an
>>> implementation when they cant do anything with them alone.
>> Both are compilers and they do allow you to create Python
>> applications, just like gcc does for C (together with the
>> libc runtime), so I don't really understand why you would
>> not call them implementations of the language. They both
>> take Python code on input :-)
>>
>> I guess putting them under a "Python Compiler" heading
>> would satisfy your request.
>>
>>> On 11/4/2015 08:24, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
>>>> On 31.10.2015 22:23, Alexander Walters wrote:
>>>>> Nuitka and Cython cant really be called alternate implementations of c python, since they kind of
>>>>> require c python to run. They are tooling at best.
>>>> I'm not sure I follow. Cython runs all Python code, plus
>>>> manages extensions for more easily compiling functions
>>>> to C extensions. Nuitka tries to implement most of CPython.
>>>> Both support use of Python C extensions.
>>>>
>>>> It's true that both need libpython - that's why I listed them
>>>> as "Alternative CPython" and not as "Alternative Python"
>>>> implementations :-)
>>>>
>>>>> On 10/29/2015 05:21, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
>>>>>> Some implementations which are not listed on the page:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alternative CPython:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> HotPy - https://sites.google.com/site/makingcpythonfast/
>>>>>> Pyston - http://blog.pyston.org/
>>>>>> Cython - http://cython.org/
>>>>>> Nuitka - http://nuitka.net/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Python for embedded devices:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> MicroPython - https://micropython.org/
>>>>> This list is incomplete.
>>>> Could you provide pointers to missing items ?
>>>>
>>>>>> Python in the browser:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Brython - http://www.brython.info/
>>>>>> Skulpt - http://www.skulpt.org/
>>>>> as is this one (it does not even list the python in the cloud implementation used on the front
>>>>> page
>>>>> of python.org)
>>>> You mean PythonAnywhere ?
>>>>
>>>> I think there's a misunderstanding here. I just listed
>>>> alternative implementations which aren't already mentioned
>>>> on https://www.python.org/download/alternatives/.
>>>>
>>>>>> Python in the cloud:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Trinket - https://trinket.io/python
>>>>>> Wakari - https://wakari.io/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Python for education:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Python Fiddle - http://pythonfiddle.com/
>>>>>> Geometry Zen - http://www.geometryzen.org/
>>>>>> Evaluzio - http://www.evaluzio.net/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> More alternative CPython packagings:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> StaticPython - https://code.google.com/p/pts-mini-gpl/wiki/StaticPython
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The wiki page lists a few more:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonImplementations
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 29.10.2015 09:56, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
>>>>>>> On 29.10.2015 09:55, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
>>>>>>>> There's currently a ticket open for the alternative implementations
>>>>>>>> page:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://github.com/python/pythondotorg/issues/842
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The page currently lists a few variants of Python implementations,
>>>>>>>> but is not up to date with more recent developments such as
>>>>>>>> Brython, Pyston, HotPy, etc.
>>>>>>> Forgot the link to the page:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.python.org/download/alternatives/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think we should try to add all currently maintained variants
>>>>>>>> to the page.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Would someone like to help with this ?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We'd need ReST entries of the form:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> * `PyPy <http://pypy.org/>`_ (A `fast <http://speed.pypy.org>`_ python
>>>>>>>> implementation with a JIT compiler)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> for each variant.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> pydotorg-www mailing list
>>>>> pydotorg-www at python.org
>>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
--
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