From martin at v.loewis.de Wed Aug 4 20:52:53 2010 From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=) Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2010 20:52:53 +0200 Subject: [pydotorg-www] Moin resource limit Message-ID: <4C59B705.8080100@v.loewis.de> MoinMoin has been causing overload problems on ximinez, presumably due to overly long request processing of some requests. I added rusage limits into moin.wsgi: each request gets only 10s of CPU time to complete; afterwards, the moin process is aborted. If you notice any problems, please let me know. Regards, Martin From bob.ocatacoo at gmail.com Fri Aug 6 18:32:40 2010 From: bob.ocatacoo at gmail.com (Bob oCatacoo) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 11:32:40 -0500 Subject: [pydotorg-www] wiki dot python dot org fwslash moin Message-ID: When creating a simple page or edit of page errors occured stating contact webmaster sorry that I can not state the actual displayed error I did overcome such error (several times) by using the back control -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bob.ocatacoo at gmail.com Fri Aug 6 18:53:35 2010 From: bob.ocatacoo at gmail.com (Bob oCatacoo) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 11:53:35 -0500 Subject: [pydotorg-www] wiki dot python dot org fwslash moin Message-ID: http://wiki.python.org/moin/CategoryHomepage error Internal Server Error The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request. Please contact the server administrator, webmaster at python.org and inform them of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done that may have caused the error. More information about this error may be available in the server error log. ------------------------------ Apache/2.2.9 (Debian) mod_fastcgi/2.4.6 mod_python/3.3.1 Python/2.5.2 mod_ssl/2.2.9 OpenSSL/0.9.8g mod_wsgi/2.5 Server at wiki.python.org Port 80 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steve at holdenweb.com Fri Aug 6 19:00:22 2010 From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2010 13:00:22 -0400 Subject: [pydotorg-www] wiki dot python dot org fwslash moin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C5C3FA6.9030003@holdenweb.com> On 8/6/2010 12:32 PM, Bob oCatacoo wrote: > When creating a simple page or edit of page > errors occured stating contact webmaster > > sorry that I can not state the actual displayed error > > I did overcome such error (several times) > by using the back control > Bob: Thanks for your report. Perhaps if you could at least give us some idea of the time this happened we might see something in the logs. Otherwise I am not sure we have enough to go on. I am glad to know that you did eventually see the pages you were requesting. regards Steve -- Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119 DjangoCon US September 7-9, 2010 http://djangocon.us/ See Python Video! http://python.mirocommunity.org/ Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/ From bob.ocatacoo at gmail.com Fri Aug 6 19:14:09 2010 From: bob.ocatacoo at gmail.com (Bob oCatacoo) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 12:14:09 -0500 Subject: [pydotorg-www] wiki dot python dot org fwslash moin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: several times this morning between 11am and 12pm utc+6 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul at boddie.org.uk Fri Aug 6 21:19:08 2010 From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 21:19:08 +0200 Subject: [pydotorg-www] wiki dot python dot org fwslash moin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <201008062119.08637.paul@boddie.org.uk> On Friday 06 August 2010 18:53:35 Bob oCatacoo wrote: > http://wiki.python.org/moin/CategoryHomepage > error > > Internal Server Error > > The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable > to complete your request. This could be related to Martin's recent change to put a time/resource limit on Moin processes. It's quite possible for pages involving searches to spend a bit of time getting all the results, even though Xapian should be enabled and working on the python.org Moin instances. I managed to get CategoryHomepage to show results, but I imagine that it might not do so under certain conditions. One page which is almost guaranteed to consume a fair amount of time is this one: http://wiki.python.org/moin/PageHits This no longer works for me. Paul P.S. I wonder if any progress has been made on Wiki improvements since I grabbed Steve at EuroPython and persuaded him to push the matter forward somewhat, for which I am (and presumably Radomir is) grateful. From sheep at sheep.art.pl Mon Aug 9 17:02:14 2010 From: sheep at sheep.art.pl (Radomir Dopieralski) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 17:02:14 +0200 Subject: [pydotorg-www] wiki dot python dot org fwslash moin In-Reply-To: <201008062119.08637.paul@boddie.org.uk> References: <201008062119.08637.paul@boddie.org.uk> Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 9:19 PM, Paul Boddie wrote: > P.S. I wonder if any progress has been made on Wiki improvements since I > grabbed Steve at EuroPython and persuaded him to push the matter forward > somewhat, for which I am (and presumably Radomir is) grateful. I did get everything sorted out access-wise and made a small tour around the server, looking at how everything is organized, but I didn't make any changes yet. The very first thing that I want to do is making MoinMoin run as a separate user, so that I don't need the root privileges to work with it. I will keep you all informed before I do anything though. I'm sorry that it takes so long, this time it's all caused by me -- not having enough time. By the way Paul, you mentioned that you had some improvements in mind for the Europython MoinMoin theme, but either we didn't talk about it in detail or I just forgot in the excitement at the conference -- if you remember what it was, I would be grateful if you could repeat it for me. -- Radomir Dopieralski, http://sheep.art.pl From steve at holdenweb.com Mon Aug 9 18:07:51 2010 From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden) Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 12:07:51 -0400 Subject: [pydotorg-www] wiki dot python dot org fwslash moin In-Reply-To: References: <201008062119.08637.paul@boddie.org.uk> Message-ID: <4C6027D7.1090704@holdenweb.com> On 8/9/2010 11:02 AM, Radomir Dopieralski wrote: > On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 9:19 PM, Paul Boddie wrote: >> P.S. I wonder if any progress has been made on Wiki improvements since I >> grabbed Steve at EuroPython and persuaded him to push the matter forward >> somewhat, for which I am (and presumably Radomir is) grateful. > > I did get everything sorted out access-wise and made a small tour > around the server, > looking at how everything is organized, but I didn't make any changes > yet. The very > first thing that I want to do is making MoinMoin run as a separate > user, so that I don't > need the root privileges to work with it. I will keep you all informed > before I do anything > though. > > I'm sorry that it takes so long, this time it's all caused by me -- > not having enough time. > > By the way Paul, you mentioned that you had some improvements in mind > for the Europython > MoinMoin theme, but either we didn't talk about it in detail or I just > forgot in the excitement > at the conference -- if you remember what it was, I would be grateful > if you could repeat it for me. > Slow and steady wins the race, Radmoir - no need to rush. Thanks for the update, and for getting involved. regards Steve -- Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119 DjangoCon US September 7-9, 2010 http://djangocon.us/ See Python Video! http://python.mirocommunity.org/ Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/ From paul at boddie.org.uk Mon Aug 9 23:26:14 2010 From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 23:26:14 +0200 Subject: [pydotorg-www] wiki dot python dot org fwslash moin In-Reply-To: References: <201008062119.08637.paul@boddie.org.uk> Message-ID: <201008092326.14607.paul@boddie.org.uk> On Monday 09 August 2010 17:02:14 Radomir Dopieralski wrote: > > I did get everything sorted out access-wise and made a small tour > around the server, looking at how everything is organized, but I didn't make > any changes yet. The very first thing that I want to do is making MoinMoin > run as a separate user, so that I don't need the root privileges to work > with it. I will keep you all informed before I do anything though. I'm confident that you know what to do. I imagine that Thomas and company will only be too happy to give advice. :-) > I'm sorry that it takes so long, this time it's all caused by me -- > not having enough time. I don't expect rapid progress: it was Steve's timely entrance which provoked me into getting you both talking, and it's great to see progress of any kind. I was just in a position to nag constructively. ;-) > By the way Paul, you mentioned that you had some improvements in mind > for the Europython MoinMoin theme, but either we didn't talk about it in > detail or I just forgot in the excitement at the conference -- if you > remember what it was, I would be grateful if you could repeat it for me. I think the principal thing was the print stylesheet. If you print pages, all of the "boilerplate" (menus, headers, footers) gets printed, but it's quite straightforward to apply "display: none" to a lot of that for much cleaner printouts. Something like this: #header, #sidebar, #footer, #timings, #credits, #interwiki, #pagelocation { display: none; } Good luck in your explorations! Paul From aahz at pythoncraft.com Tue Aug 10 01:12:13 2010 From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 16:12:13 -0700 Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: Wiki Internal Server Error Message-ID: <20100809231213.GA23097@panix.com> Another complaint, will respond to user ----- Forwarded message from ceduard0 ----- > Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 17:30:06 -0500 > Subject: Internal Server Error > From: ceduard0 > To: webmaster at python.org > > Hi webmaster, I want to see this link > http://wiki.python.org/moin/TitleIndex, but It is return me the follow > error message: > Internal Server Error > > The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable > to complete your request. > > Please contact the server administrator, webmaster at python.org and inform > them of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done that > may have caused the error. > > More information about this error may be available in the server error log. > ------------------------------ > Apache/2.2.9 (Debian) mod_fastcgi/2.4.6 mod_python/3.3.1 Python/2.5.2 > mod_ssl/2.2.9 OpenSSL/0.9.8g mod_wsgi/2.5 Server at wiki.python.org Port 80 > > -- > ceduard0 ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/ "...if I were on life-support, I'd rather have it run by a Gameboy than a Windows box." --Cliff Wells From martin at v.loewis.de Tue Aug 10 07:16:08 2010 From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 07:16:08 +0200 Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: Wiki Internal Server Error In-Reply-To: <20100809231213.GA23097@panix.com> References: <20100809231213.GA23097@panix.com> Message-ID: <4C60E098.6050606@v.loewis.de> Am 10.08.2010 01:12, schrieb Aahz: > Another complaint, will respond to user Ah, that's the 10s CPU quota in force. FWIW, when I just accessed it, it worked fine. Any proposals on how to solve this appreciated. My own proposal is to move the Wiki to dinsdale, which has more CPUs than ximinez (so would could allocate four of them to the Wiki, and allow for, say, 30s requests). Regards, Martin From aahz at pythoncraft.com Tue Aug 10 16:19:13 2010 From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 07:19:13 -0700 Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: Wiki Internal Server Error In-Reply-To: <4C60E098.6050606@v.loewis.de> References: <20100809231213.GA23097@panix.com> <4C60E098.6050606@v.loewis.de> Message-ID: <20100810141913.GA1187@panix.com> On Tue, Aug 10, 2010, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote: > Am 10.08.2010 01:12, schrieb Aahz: >> >> Another complaint, will respond to user > > Ah, that's the 10s CPU quota in force. FWIW, when I just accessed it, > it worked fine. Right, that's what I told the user. It would be nice if we could give the user a "timeout" page rather than a 500 error ("Your request exceeded available processing time, please try again later."). > Any proposals on how to solve this appreciated. My own proposal > is to move the Wiki to dinsdale, which has more CPUs than ximinez > (so would could allocate four of them to the Wiki, and allow for, > say, 30s requests). That sounds like a fine idea. Also, I have no idea what the current budget of the PSF is, but throwing hardware at problems (i.e. getting a dedicated wiki machine) also seems like a fine idea. -- Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/ "...if I were on life-support, I'd rather have it run by a Gameboy than a Windows box." --Cliff Wells From aahz at pythoncraft.com Tue Aug 10 16:20:07 2010 From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 07:20:07 -0700 Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: [issue10114] Roundup email interface problem Message-ID: <20100810142007.GB1187@panix.com> ----- Forwarded message from Izak Burger ----- > Subject: [issue10114] Roundup email interface problem > To: aahz at pythoncraft.com > From: Izak Burger > Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 12:51:58 -0000 > Reply-To: Upfront Systems support > > Izak Burger added the comment: > > Resolving. The issue was a corrupted ext3 journal, I trashed and rebuilt > it last night. > > ---------- > status: chatting -> resolved > > _________________________________________________________ > Upfront Systems support > > _________________________________________________________ ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/ "...if I were on life-support, I'd rather have it run by a Gameboy than a Windows box." --Cliff Wells From martin at v.loewis.de Tue Aug 10 23:44:47 2010 From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 23:44:47 +0200 Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: Wiki Internal Server Error In-Reply-To: <20100810141913.GA1187@panix.com> References: <20100809231213.GA23097@panix.com> <4C60E098.6050606@v.loewis.de> <20100810141913.GA1187@panix.com> Message-ID: <4C61C84F.1070404@v.loewis.de> Am 10.08.2010 16:19, schrieb Aahz: > On Tue, Aug 10, 2010, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote: >> Am 10.08.2010 01:12, schrieb Aahz: >>> >>> Another complaint, will respond to user >> >> Ah, that's the 10s CPU quota in force. FWIW, when I just accessed it, >> it worked fine. > > Right, that's what I told the user. It would be nice if we could give > the user a "timeout" page rather than a 500 error ("Your request exceeded > available processing time, please try again later."). I think this would be difficult to implement. The process just gets killed by the kernel when it is over CPU quota. >> Any proposals on how to solve this appreciated. My own proposal >> is to move the Wiki to dinsdale, which has more CPUs than ximinez >> (so would could allocate four of them to the Wiki, and allow for, >> say, 30s requests). > > That sounds like a fine idea. Also, I have no idea what the current > budget of the PSF is, but throwing hardware at problems (i.e. getting a > dedicated wiki machine) also seems like a fine idea. We would also have to look for hosting then - XS4ALL won't allow us more rack space. Regards, Martin From paul at boddie.org.uk Wed Aug 11 00:16:52 2010 From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 00:16:52 +0200 Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: Wiki Internal Server Error In-Reply-To: <4C61C84F.1070404@v.loewis.de> References: <20100809231213.GA23097@panix.com> <20100810141913.GA1187@panix.com> <4C61C84F.1070404@v.loewis.de> Message-ID: <201008110016.53139.paul@boddie.org.uk> On Tuesday 10 August 2010 23:44:47 Martin v. L?wis wrote: > > I think this would be difficult to implement. The process just gets > killed by the kernel when it is over CPU quota. I think it's a bit odd that requests are routinely taking so much effort to process. I managed to get the 500 error page editing pages today, although the pages were saved correctly. A brief search gave up this short thread: http://www.mail-archive.com/moin-user at lists.sourceforge.net/msg01720.html I guess I'll just keep looking for more general information about this kind of problem. Paul From martin at v.loewis.de Wed Aug 11 00:25:27 2010 From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 00:25:27 +0200 Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: Wiki Internal Server Error In-Reply-To: <201008110016.53139.paul@boddie.org.uk> References: <20100809231213.GA23097@panix.com> <20100810141913.GA1187@panix.com> <4C61C84F.1070404@v.loewis.de> <201008110016.53139.paul@boddie.org.uk> Message-ID: <4C61D1D7.1070200@v.loewis.de> >> I think this would be difficult to implement. The process just gets >> killed by the kernel when it is over CPU quota. > > I think it's a bit odd that requests are routinely taking so much effort to > process. I managed to get the 500 error page editing pages today, although > the pages were saved correctly. Well, one such page is TitleIndex. I don't know how MoinMoin computes it - but it surely is expensive to compute, given the size of this Wiki. Of course, any proposals for tuning the installation would be much appreciated. It's just a fact that this Wiki has computed *a lot* of CPU time over the last few years, and has often caused the Cheeseshop to become unavailable (which is quite unfortunate). With the CPU quota, this doesn't seem to happen anymore - at the expensive of some pages not getting rendered properly. Regards, Martin From p at state-of-mind.de Wed Aug 11 00:42:31 2010 From: p at state-of-mind.de (Patrick Ben Koetter) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 00:42:31 +0200 Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: Wiki Internal Server Error In-Reply-To: <4C61D1D7.1070200@v.loewis.de> References: <20100809231213.GA23097@panix.com> <20100810141913.GA1187@panix.com> <4C61C84F.1070404@v.loewis.de> <201008110016.53139.paul@boddie.org.uk> <4C61D1D7.1070200@v.loewis.de> Message-ID: <20100810224231.GA2872@state-of-mind.de> * "Martin v. L?wis" : > >> I think this would be difficult to implement. The process just gets > >> killed by the kernel when it is over CPU quota. > > > > I think it's a bit odd that requests are routinely taking so much effort to > > process. I managed to get the 500 error page editing pages today, although > > the pages were saved correctly. > > Well, one such page is TitleIndex. I don't know how MoinMoin computes it > - but it surely is expensive to compute, given the size of this Wiki. > > Of course, any proposals for tuning the installation would be much > appreciated. I'll ask without knowing what ever has been done before to control the load. Has anybody ever checked if pages could be - on 2 servers and a load balancer upfront - cached by a proxy or in memory - served by a faster more leight weight http process - rendered to a static version that will be rebuild only from time to time - split into smaller chunks Those are first things that come to my mind when I think of dynamic websites that eat to many computer ressources. p at rick > > It's just a fact that this Wiki has computed *a lot* of CPU time over > the last few years, and has often caused the Cheeseshop to become > unavailable (which is quite unfortunate). > > With the CPU quota, this doesn't seem to happen anymore - at the > expensive of some pages not getting rendered properly. > > Regards, > Martin > _______________________________________________ > pydotorg-www mailing list > pydotorg-www at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www -- state of mind Digitale Kommunikation http://www.state-of-mind.de Franziskanerstra?e 15 Telefon +49 89 3090 4664 81669 M?nchen Telefax +49 89 3090 4666 Amtsgericht M?nchen Partnerschaftsregister PR 563 From steve at holdenweb.com Wed Aug 11 00:45:50 2010 From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 18:45:50 -0400 Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: Wiki Internal Server Error In-Reply-To: <4C61D1D7.1070200@v.loewis.de> References: <20100809231213.GA23097@panix.com> <20100810141913.GA1187@panix.com> <4C61C84F.1070404@v.loewis.de> <201008110016.53139.paul@boddie.org.uk> <4C61D1D7.1070200@v.loewis.de> Message-ID: <4C61D69E.6040704@holdenweb.com> On 8/10/2010 6:25 PM, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote: >>> I think this would be difficult to implement. The process just gets >>> killed by the kernel when it is over CPU quota. >> >> I think it's a bit odd that requests are routinely taking so much effort to >> process. I managed to get the 500 error page editing pages today, although >> the pages were saved correctly. > > Well, one such page is TitleIndex. I don't know how MoinMoin computes it > - but it surely is expensive to compute, given the size of this Wiki. > > Of course, any proposals for tuning the installation would be much > appreciated. > > It's just a fact that this Wiki has computed *a lot* of CPU time over > the last few years, and has often caused the Cheeseshop to become > unavailable (which is quite unfortunate). > > With the CPU quota, this doesn't seem to happen anymore - at the > expensive of some pages not getting rendered properly. > Given the non-availability of extra rack space at XS4ALL, would it be practical to replace one or more machines with more powerful hardware, or is it pretty much maxed out? If the latter then we should probably look at relocating the Wiki (which I don't believe has any content best handled outside the US) to some other hosting facility. It should certainly not be allowed to interfere with the Cheeseshop, which will be a crucial resource in the future. I'm copying Sean Reifschneider on this mail as the Infrastructure Committee may need to take a view on this issue at some point. regards Steve -- Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119 DjangoCon US September 7-9, 2010 http://djangocon.us/ See Python Video! http://python.mirocommunity.org/ Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/ From martin at v.loewis.de Wed Aug 11 00:58:47 2010 From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 00:58:47 +0200 Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: Wiki Internal Server Error In-Reply-To: <20100810224231.GA2872@state-of-mind.de> References: <20100809231213.GA23097@panix.com> <20100810141913.GA1187@panix.com> <4C61C84F.1070404@v.loewis.de> <201008110016.53139.paul@boddie.org.uk> <4C61D1D7.1070200@v.loewis.de> <20100810224231.GA2872@state-of-mind.de> Message-ID: <4C61D9A7.5050108@v.loewis.de> > I'll ask without knowing what ever has been done before to control the load. > Has anybody ever checked if pages could be > > - on 2 servers and a load balancer upfront Not at XS4ALL, no. However, using more processors might already help - no need for multiple servers. > - cached by a proxy or in memory That likely won't help. MoinMoin already caches on its own; it's the generation of pages that need to be regenerated is what costs CPU. Also, it would be difficult to determine what exactly can be cached, and for how long. MoinMoin caches on disk - caching in memory likely won't matter much. > - served by a faster more leight weight http process I fail to see how this could possibly help. It's Python processes consuming 30s and more per request that take the CPU. Apache doesn't matter at all here. > - rendered to a static version that will be rebuild only from time to time That might help, but it would defeat the point of a wiki, with instantaneous updates. > - split into smaller chunks Not sure how to do this. > Those are first things that come to my mind when I think of dynamic websites > that eat to many computer ressources. I'm personally skeptical that any of these can help. Regards, Martin From martin at v.loewis.de Wed Aug 11 01:02:46 2010 From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 01:02:46 +0200 Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: Wiki Internal Server Error In-Reply-To: <4C61D69E.6040704@holdenweb.com> References: <20100809231213.GA23097@panix.com> <20100810141913.GA1187@panix.com> <4C61C84F.1070404@v.loewis.de> <201008110016.53139.paul@boddie.org.uk> <4C61D1D7.1070200@v.loewis.de> <4C61D69E.6040704@holdenweb.com> Message-ID: <4C61DA96.6020906@v.loewis.de> > Given the non-availability of extra rack space at XS4ALL, would it be > practical to replace one or more machines with more powerful hardware, > or is it pretty much maxed out? Moving the wiki to dinsdale would instantaneously make more powerful hardware available. That machine is underutilized. Of course, moving the wiki might flip that judgement. > If the latter then we should probably look at relocating the Wiki (which > I don't believe has any content best handled outside the US) to some > other hosting facility. It should certainly not be allowed to interfere > with the Cheeseshop, which will be a crucial resource in the future. But so will be the Wiki, no? In any case, I also favor it not interfering with the Cheeseshop, at the expense of risking interference with www.python.org. So unless I hear any objection RSN, I start moving it. Regards, Martin From mikeisgreat at gmail.com Wed Aug 11 01:39:39 2010 From: mikeisgreat at gmail.com (Michael S) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 19:39:39 -0400 Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: Wiki Internal Server Error In-Reply-To: <4C61DA96.6020906@v.loewis.de> References: <20100809231213.GA23097@panix.com> <20100810141913.GA1187@panix.com> <4C61C84F.1070404@v.loewis.de> <201008110016.53139.paul@boddie.org.uk> <4C61D1D7.1070200@v.loewis.de> <4C61D69E.6040704@holdenweb.com> <4C61DA96.6020906@v.loewis.de> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 7:02 PM, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote: >> Given the non-availability of extra rack space at XS4ALL, would it be >> practical to replace one or more machines with more powerful hardware, >> or is it pretty much maxed out? > > Moving the wiki to dinsdale would instantaneously make more powerful > hardware available. That machine is underutilized. Of course, moving the > wiki might flip that judgement. > >> If the latter then we should probably look at relocating the Wiki (which >> I don't believe has any content best handled outside the US) to some >> other hosting facility. It should certainly not be allowed to interfere >> with the Cheeseshop, which will be a crucial resource in the future. > > But so will be the Wiki, no? > > In any case, I also favor it not interfering with the Cheeseshop, at > the expense of risking interference with www.python.org. > > So unless I hear any objection RSN, I start moving it. Jumping in late.. Can we recreate this issue? I don't have access to the servers but I am willing to assist with some sysadmin foo. Can I get sw versions of the app stack.. apache x.x, moinmoin x,x, python, etc.. following the thread I am left to believe that it is a python process that is burning CPU and has nothing to with moin or http, but since I am blind, I am just following along seeing if I can assist. Side Note: I've been a volunteer for pydotorg for a couple years, but have been M.I.A for awhile. I am back and wanting to help with sysadmin/pydotorg. What do I need to do to get shell access so I can view logs, pids, sys stats, etc? I just checked and my pubkey is still there (see below) but no shell access: [505]mike at maci:~$ ssh -i .ssh/pykey pydotorg at svn.python.org PTY allocation request failed on channel 0 ( success ( 2 2 ( ) ( edit-pipeline svndiff1 absent-entries commit-revprops depth log-revprops partial-replay ) ) ) Connection to svn.python.org closed - Mike > > Regards, > Martin > _______________________________________________ > pydotorg-www mailing list > pydotorg-www at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www > From martin at v.loewis.de Wed Aug 11 01:44:14 2010 From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 01:44:14 +0200 Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: Wiki Internal Server Error In-Reply-To: References: <20100809231213.GA23097@panix.com> <20100810141913.GA1187@panix.com> <4C61C84F.1070404@v.loewis.de> <201008110016.53139.paul@boddie.org.uk> <4C61D1D7.1070200@v.loewis.de> <4C61D69E.6040704@holdenweb.com> <4C61DA96.6020906@v.loewis.de> Message-ID: <4C61E44E.1070100@v.loewis.de> >> So unless I hear any objection RSN, I start moving it. > > Jumping in late.. > > Can we recreate this issue? Assuming "this issue" is the Wiki consuming a lot of time: sure. Just edit some page, and try to save the changes. > Can I get sw versions of the app stack.. apache x.x, moinmoin x,x, python, etc.. That will take a while to collect. In short, it's all "debian stable". > following the thread I am left to believe that it is a python process > that is burning CPU and has nothing to with moin or http It is definitely the moin-wsgi process that is burning the CPU. > I've been a volunteer for pydotorg for a couple years, but have been > M.I.A for awhile. I am back and wanting to help with > sysadmin/pydotorg. >From looking at the subversion logs, I know I added your key. But I don't recall why I did - can you please remind me? Regards, Martin From steve at holdenweb.com Wed Aug 11 02:19:12 2010 From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 20:19:12 -0400 Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: Wiki Internal Server Error In-Reply-To: <4C61E44E.1070100@v.loewis.de> References: <20100809231213.GA23097@panix.com> <20100810141913.GA1187@panix.com> <4C61C84F.1070404@v.loewis.de> <201008110016.53139.paul@boddie.org.uk> <4C61D1D7.1070200@v.loewis.de> <4C61D69E.6040704@holdenweb.com> <4C61DA96.6020906@v.loewis.de> <4C61E44E.1070100@v.loewis.de> Message-ID: <4C61EC80.3070507@holdenweb.com> On 8/10/2010 7:44 PM, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote: >>> So unless I hear any objection RSN, I start moving it. >> >> Jumping in late.. >> >> Can we recreate this issue? > > Assuming "this issue" is the Wiki consuming a lot of time: sure. Just > edit some page, and try to save the changes. > >> Can I get sw versions of the app stack.. apache x.x, moinmoin x,x, python, etc.. > > That will take a while to collect. In short, it's all "debian stable". > >> following the thread I am left to believe that it is a python process >> that is burning CPU and has nothing to with moin or http > > It is definitely the moin-wsgi process that is burning the CPU. > >> I've been a volunteer for pydotorg for a couple years, but have been >> M.I.A for awhile. I am back and wanting to help with >> sysadmin/pydotorg. > >>From looking at the subversion logs, I know I added your key. But I > don't recall why I did - can you please remind me? > > Regards, > Martin > Let's also remember that Radomir Dopieralski recently joined the team with the specific intention of nursemaiding the MoinMoin Wiki. Whether there is anything he can do I don't know (though I kind of doubt it), but he's a resource we should not ignore. regards Steve -- Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119 DjangoCon US September 7-9, 2010 http://djangocon.us/ See Python Video! http://python.mirocommunity.org/ Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/ From mikeisgreat at gmail.com Wed Aug 11 02:44:14 2010 From: mikeisgreat at gmail.com (Michael Steinfeld) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 20:44:14 -0400 Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: Wiki Internal Server Error In-Reply-To: <4C61EC80.3070507@holdenweb.com> References: <20100809231213.GA23097@panix.com> <20100810141913.GA1187@panix.com> <4C61C84F.1070404@v.loewis.de> <201008110016.53139.paul@boddie.org.uk> <4C61D1D7.1070200@v.loewis.de> <4C61D69E.6040704@holdenweb.com> <4C61DA96.6020906@v.loewis.de> <4C61E44E.1070100@v.loewis.de> <4C61EC80.3070507@holdenweb.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 8:19 PM, Steve Holden wrote: > On 8/10/2010 7:44 PM, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote: >>>> So unless I hear any objection RSN, I start moving it. >>> >>> Jumping in late.. >>> >>> Can we recreate this issue? >> >> Assuming "this issue" is the Wiki consuming a lot of time: sure. Just >> edit some page, and try to save the changes. >> >>> Can I get sw versions of the app stack.. apache x.x, moinmoin x,x, python, etc.. >> >> That will take a while to collect. In short, it's all "debian stable". >> >>> following the thread I am left to believe that it is a python process >>> that is burning CPU and has nothing to with moin or http >> >> It is definitely the moin-wsgi process that is burning the CPU. >> >>> I've been a volunteer for pydotorg for a couple years, but have been >>> M.I.A for awhile. I am back and wanting to help with >>> sysadmin/pydotorg. >> >>>From looking at the subversion logs, I know I added your key. But I >> don't recall why I did - can you please remind me? I sent the answer to Martin's questions off list. Don't know if that was appropriate or not. Anyhow, if you look at what gnome.org did with /TitleIndex http://live.gnome.org/TitleIndex I was wondering if that would be something to consider here. Personally. I like solving the problems without doing things so drastic, but that seems like a simple fix. >> >> Regards, >> Martin >> > Let's also remember that Radomir Dopieralski recently joined the team > with the specific intention of nursemaiding the MoinMoin Wiki. Whether > there is anything he can do I don't know (though I kind of doubt it), > but he's a resource we should not ignore. > > regards > ?Steve > > -- > Steve Holden ? ? ? ? ? +1 571 484 6266 ? +1 800 494 3119 > DjangoCon US September 7-9, 2010 ? ?http://djangocon.us/ > See Python Video! ? ? ? http://python.mirocommunity.org/ > Holden Web LLC ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? http://www.holdenweb.com/ > From mikeisgreat at gmail.com Wed Aug 11 05:56:34 2010 From: mikeisgreat at gmail.com (Michael Steinfeld) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 23:56:34 -0400 Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: Wiki Internal Server Error In-Reply-To: References: <20100809231213.GA23097@panix.com> <20100810141913.GA1187@panix.com> <4C61C84F.1070404@v.loewis.de> <201008110016.53139.paul@boddie.org.uk> <4C61D1D7.1070200@v.loewis.de> <4C61D69E.6040704@holdenweb.com> <4C61DA96.6020906@v.loewis.de> <4C61E44E.1070100@v.loewis.de> <4C61EC80.3070507@holdenweb.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Michael Steinfeld wrote: > On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 8:19 PM, Steve Holden wrote: >> On 8/10/2010 7:44 PM, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote: >>>>> So unless I hear any objection RSN, I start moving it. >>>> >>>> Jumping in late.. >>>> >>>> Can we recreate this issue? >>> >>> Assuming "this issue" is the Wiki consuming a lot of time: sure. Just >>> edit some page, and try to save the changes. >>> >>>> Can I get sw versions of the app stack.. apache x.x, moinmoin x,x, python, etc.. >>> >>> That will take a while to collect. In short, it's all "debian stable". >>> >>>> following the thread I am left to believe that it is a python process >>>> that is burning CPU and has nothing to with moin or http >>> >>> It is definitely the moin-wsgi process that is burning the CPU. >>> >>>> I've been a volunteer for pydotorg for a couple years, but have been >>>> M.I.A for awhile. I am back and wanting to help with >>>> sysadmin/pydotorg. >>> >>>>From looking at the subversion logs, I know I added your key. But I >>> don't recall why I did - can you please remind me? > > I sent the answer to Martin's questions off list. Don't know if that > was appropriate or not. > > Anyhow, if you look at what gnome.org did with /TitleIndex > > http://live.gnome.org/TitleIndex > > I was wondering if that would be something to consider here. > Personally. I like solving the problems without doing things so > drastic, but that seems like a simple fix. Is munin still active? i.e. http://www.python.org/munin/ > >>> >>> Regards, >>> Martin >>> >> Let's also remember that Radomir Dopieralski recently joined the team >> with the specific intention of nursemaiding the MoinMoin Wiki. Whether >> there is anything he can do I don't know (though I kind of doubt it), >> but he's a resource we should not ignore. >> >> regards >> ?Steve >> >> -- >> Steve Holden ? ? ? ? ? +1 571 484 6266 ? +1 800 494 3119 >> DjangoCon US September 7-9, 2010 ? ?http://djangocon.us/ >> See Python Video! ? ? ? http://python.mirocommunity.org/ >> Holden Web LLC ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? http://www.holdenweb.com/ >> > From mikeisgreat at gmail.com Wed Aug 11 05:58:08 2010 From: mikeisgreat at gmail.com (Michael Steinfeld) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 23:58:08 -0400 Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: Wiki Internal Server Error In-Reply-To: References: <20100809231213.GA23097@panix.com> <20100810141913.GA1187@panix.com> <4C61C84F.1070404@v.loewis.de> <201008110016.53139.paul@boddie.org.uk> <4C61D1D7.1070200@v.loewis.de> <4C61D69E.6040704@holdenweb.com> <4C61DA96.6020906@v.loewis.de> <4C61E44E.1070100@v.loewis.de> <4C61EC80.3070507@holdenweb.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 11:56 PM, Michael Steinfeld wrote: > On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Michael Steinfeld > wrote: >> On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 8:19 PM, Steve Holden wrote: >>> On 8/10/2010 7:44 PM, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote: >>>>>> So unless I hear any objection RSN, I start moving it. >>>>> >>>>> Jumping in late.. >>>>> >>>>> Can we recreate this issue? >>>> >>>> Assuming "this issue" is the Wiki consuming a lot of time: sure. Just >>>> edit some page, and try to save the changes. >>>> >>>>> Can I get sw versions of the app stack.. apache x.x, moinmoin x,x, python, etc.. >>>> >>>> That will take a while to collect. In short, it's all "debian stable". >>>> >>>>> following the thread I am left to believe that it is a python process >>>>> that is burning CPU and has nothing to with moin or http >>>> >>>> It is definitely the moin-wsgi process that is burning the CPU. >>>> >>>>> I've been a volunteer for pydotorg for a couple years, but have been >>>>> M.I.A for awhile. I am back and wanting to help with >>>>> sysadmin/pydotorg. >>>> >>>>>From looking at the subversion logs, I know I added your key. But I >>>> don't recall why I did - can you please remind me? >> >> I sent the answer to Martin's questions off list. Don't know if that >> was appropriate or not. >> >> Anyhow, if you look at what gnome.org did with /TitleIndex >> >> http://live.gnome.org/TitleIndex >> >> I was wondering if that would be something to consider here. >> Personally. I like solving the problems without doing things so >> drastic, but that seems like a simple fix. > > Is munin still active? nevermind, I need my glasses. This page was generated by Munin version 1.2.6 at 2010-08-11 T 05:55:06 > > i.e. http://www.python.org/munin/ > >> >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Martin >>>> >>> Let's also remember that Radomir Dopieralski recently joined the team >>> with the specific intention of nursemaiding the MoinMoin Wiki. Whether >>> there is anything he can do I don't know (though I kind of doubt it), >>> but he's a resource we should not ignore. >>> >>> regards >>> ?Steve >>> >>> -- >>> Steve Holden ? ? ? ? ? +1 571 484 6266 ? +1 800 494 3119 >>> DjangoCon US September 7-9, 2010 ? ?http://djangocon.us/ >>> See Python Video! ? ? ? http://python.mirocommunity.org/ >>> Holden Web LLC ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? http://www.holdenweb.com/ >>> >> > From martin at v.loewis.de Wed Aug 11 08:42:56 2010 From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 08:42:56 +0200 Subject: [pydotorg-www] DNS for wiki changed Message-ID: <4C624670.8080208@v.loewis.de> I just assigned the wiki a separate IP address (82.94.164.169, 2001:888:2000:d::a9). The change will need a day to propogate; the wiki should remain reachable und both the old and the new address. Regards, Martin From martin at v.loewis.de Wed Aug 11 22:49:18 2010 From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 22:49:18 +0200 Subject: [pydotorg-www] Moving the wiki Message-ID: <4C630CCE.6060604@v.loewis.de> I have now setup wiki2.python.org on dinsdale, for testing purposes. Please verify that this installation works. If there are no complaints tomorrow morning, I'll be making this installation wiki.python.org tomorrow during the day (after synchronizing any pending changes, of course). Regards, Martin From merwok at netwok.org Wed Aug 11 23:17:05 2010 From: merwok at netwok.org (=?UTF-8?B?w4lyaWMgQXJhdWpv?=) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 23:17:05 +0200 Subject: [pydotorg-www] Moving the wiki In-Reply-To: <4C630CCE.6060604@v.loewis.de> References: <4C630CCE.6060604@v.loewis.de> Message-ID: <4C631351.9000905@netwok.org> Le 11/08/2010 22:49, "Martin v. L?wis" a ?crit : > I have now setup wiki2.python.org on dinsdale, for testing > purposes. Please verify that this installation works. When I entered a wrong user name (not on purpose: I have a weird memory) and tried to login, I got ?A problem occurred in a Python script?. I looked up my user name in my browser?s password manager, logged in, edited a page, loaded TitleIndex, no issue at all. Regards From martin at v.loewis.de Wed Aug 11 23:52:52 2010 From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 23:52:52 +0200 Subject: [pydotorg-www] Truncating Moin log files Message-ID: <4C631BB4.8090906@v.loewis.de> I just rotated event-log and edit-log of the main instance; event-log had grown to 2.5GB. When it was previously rotated (about a year ago), it had 2.3GB. AFAIK, these log files are only consulted for management pages. If anybody needs data in them, or thinks I should prepend some tail of the old data to the new file, please let me know. One consequence is that the RecentChanges file is empty at the moment. Regards, Martin From martin at v.loewis.de Wed Aug 11 23:59:25 2010 From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?UTF-8?B?Ik1hcnRpbiB2LiBMw7Z3aXMi?=) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 23:59:25 +0200 Subject: [pydotorg-www] Moving the wiki In-Reply-To: <4C631351.9000905@netwok.org> References: <4C630CCE.6060604@v.loewis.de> <4C631351.9000905@netwok.org> Message-ID: <4C631D3D.2020803@v.loewis.de> Am 11.08.2010 23:17, schrieb ?ric Araujo: > Le 11/08/2010 22:49, "Martin v. L?wis" a ?crit : >> I have now setup wiki2.python.org on dinsdale, for testing >> purposes. Please verify that this installation works. > > When I entered a wrong user name (not on purpose: I have a weird memory) > and tried to login, I got ?A problem occurred in a Python script?. > > I looked up my user name in my browser?s password manager, logged in, > edited a page, loaded TitleIndex, no issue at all. That's actually an issue with the current installation, also. In the Debian package, in login.py, it tries error.append(wikiutil.escape(msg)) However, the wikiutil module apparently is not present anymore in MoinMoin, and isn't imported, either. That seems to be http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=591532 The bug report has a patch; I'll apply that manually before switching. Regards, Martin From mikeisgreat at gmail.com Thu Aug 12 01:02:43 2010 From: mikeisgreat at gmail.com (Michael Steinfeld) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 19:02:43 -0400 Subject: [pydotorg-www] Moving the wiki In-Reply-To: <4C631D3D.2020803@v.loewis.de> References: <4C630CCE.6060604@v.loewis.de> <4C631351.9000905@netwok.org> <4C631D3D.2020803@v.loewis.de> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 5:59 PM, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote: > Am 11.08.2010 23:17, schrieb ?ric Araujo: >> Le 11/08/2010 22:49, "Martin v. L?wis" a ?crit : >>> I have now setup wiki2.python.org on dinsdale, for testing >>> purposes. Please verify that this installation works. >> >> When I entered a wrong user name (not on purpose: I have a weird memory) >> and tried to login, I got ?A problem occurred in a Python script?. >> >> I looked up my user name in my browser?s password manager, logged in, >> edited a page, loaded TitleIndex, no issue at all. Yep, looking good.. nice job Martin. > > That's actually an issue with the current installation, also. In the > Debian package, in login.py, it tries > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?error.append(wikiutil.escape(msg)) > > However, the wikiutil module apparently is not present anymore in > MoinMoin, and isn't imported, either. That seems to be > > http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=591532 > > The bug report has a patch; I'll apply that manually before switching. > > Regards, > Martin > _______________________________________________ > pydotorg-www mailing list > pydotorg-www at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www > From paul at boddie.org.uk Thu Aug 12 01:08:01 2010 From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 01:08:01 +0200 Subject: [pydotorg-www] Truncating Moin log files In-Reply-To: <4C631BB4.8090906@v.loewis.de> References: <4C631BB4.8090906@v.loewis.de> Message-ID: <201008120108.01219.paul@boddie.org.uk> On Wednesday 11 August 2010 23:52:52 Martin v. L?wis wrote: > I just rotated event-log and edit-log of the main instance; > event-log had grown to 2.5GB. When it was previously rotated > (about a year ago), it had 2.3GB. > > AFAIK, these log files are only consulted for management pages. > If anybody needs data in them, or thinks I should prepend some > tail of the old data to the new file, please let me know. > > One consequence is that the RecentChanges file is empty at > the moment. The following page may have some relevant recommendations: http://moinmo.in/HowTo/Tune%20Performance I imagine that the costly statistics operations could be restricted in case someone needs them. For example, the very expensive PageHits page provides quite interesting information about what people are looking at, but the average robot (if not already forbidden) doesn't need to get at it. There's a mention of timing.log which appears to be documented here: http://moinmo.in/MoinMoinRelease1.5/CHANGES Maybe that might indicate the nature of the problem. Paul From martin at v.loewis.de Thu Aug 12 01:10:01 2010 From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 01:10:01 +0200 Subject: [pydotorg-www] Truncating Moin log files In-Reply-To: <201008120108.01219.paul@boddie.org.uk> References: <4C631BB4.8090906@v.loewis.de> <201008120108.01219.paul@boddie.org.uk> Message-ID: <4C632DC9.4090500@v.loewis.de> Am 12.08.2010 01:08, schrieb Paul Boddie: > On Wednesday 11 August 2010 23:52:52 Martin v. L?wis wrote: >> I just rotated event-log and edit-log of the main instance; >> event-log had grown to 2.5GB. When it was previously rotated >> (about a year ago), it had 2.3GB. >> >> AFAIK, these log files are only consulted for management pages. >> If anybody needs data in them, or thinks I should prepend some >> tail of the old data to the new file, please let me know. >> >> One consequence is that the RecentChanges file is empty at >> the moment. > > The following page may have some relevant recommendations: > > http://moinmo.in/HowTo/Tune%20Performance I've seen that - but it didn't really translate into actionable recommendations for me. In any case, any costly operations based on these log files should now be cheap, now that the log files are empty. So I rather wonder whether there is any significant loss of functionality. If the recommendation would have been to restrict access to that functionality, anyway, I guess the answer is "no". Regards, Martin From paul at boddie.org.uk Thu Aug 12 01:36:55 2010 From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 01:36:55 +0200 Subject: [pydotorg-www] Truncating Moin log files In-Reply-To: <4C632DC9.4090500@v.loewis.de> References: <4C631BB4.8090906@v.loewis.de> <201008120108.01219.paul@boddie.org.uk> <4C632DC9.4090500@v.loewis.de> Message-ID: <201008120136.55231.paul@boddie.org.uk> On Thursday 12 August 2010 01:10:01 Martin v. L?wis wrote: > Am 12.08.2010 01:08, schrieb Paul Boddie: > > > > http://moinmo.in/HowTo/Tune%20Performance > > I've seen that - but it didn't really translate into actionable > recommendations for me. It might be worth asking on #moin, which I may do tomorrow. > In any case, any costly operations based on these log files > should now be cheap, now that the log files are empty. > > So I rather wonder whether there is any significant loss > of functionality. If the recommendation would have been > to restrict access to that functionality, anyway, I guess > the answer is "no". Well, it can occasionally be useful to get at the statistics, so perhaps those pages could be protected with an ACL that only gives administrators the right to see them. Maybe there's a performance issue with the global edit-log. The following page mentions what it appears to do: http://moinmo.in/MoinDev/Storage Again, I may ask on #moin to see if anybody knows about anything related to the edit-log or these performance issues generally. Paul From sheep at sheep.art.pl Thu Aug 12 20:35:39 2010 From: sheep at sheep.art.pl (Radomir Dopieralski) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 20:35:39 +0200 Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: Wiki Internal Server Error In-Reply-To: <4C61EC80.3070507@holdenweb.com> References: <20100809231213.GA23097@panix.com> <20100810141913.GA1187@panix.com> <4C61C84F.1070404@v.loewis.de> <201008110016.53139.paul@boddie.org.uk> <4C61D1D7.1070200@v.loewis.de> <4C61D69E.6040704@holdenweb.com> <4C61DA96.6020906@v.loewis.de> <4C61E44E.1070100@v.loewis.de> <4C61EC80.3070507@holdenweb.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 2:19 AM, Steve Holden wrote: > On 8/10/2010 7:44 PM, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote: >>>> So unless I hear any objection RSN, I start moving it. >>> >>> Jumping in late.. >>> >>> Can we recreate this issue? >> >> Assuming "this issue" is the Wiki consuming a lot of time: sure. Just >> edit some page, and try to save the changes. >> >>> Can I get sw versions of the app stack.. apache x.x, moinmoin x,x, python, etc.. >> >> That will take a while to collect. In short, it's all "debian stable". >> >>> following the thread I am left to believe that it is a python process >>> that is burning CPU and has nothing to with moin or http >> >> It is definitely the moin-wsgi process that is burning the CPU. >> >>> I've been a volunteer for pydotorg for a couple years, but have been >>> M.I.A for awhile. I am back and wanting to help with >>> sysadmin/pydotorg. >> >>>From looking at the subversion logs, I know I added your key. But I >> don't recall why I did - can you please remind me? >> >> Regards, >> Martin >> > Let's also remember that Radomir Dopieralski recently joined the team > with the specific intention of nursemaiding the MoinMoin Wiki. Whether > there is anything he can do I don't know (though I kind of doubt it), > but he's a resource we should not ignore. One particularly expensive thing in MoinMoin is displaying the category pages, as it involves a full search of the whole wiki. We have introduced a number of partial solutions that are supposed to mitigate the issue, from xapian indexing to using cached versions of the the search macro on the category pages. I can see that most of the category pages on the python wiki were created with earlier version of MoinMoin and still use the FullSearch macro, instead of FullSearchCached -- changing this should help considerably, at the expense of not having the changes in categories show up on the category pages immediately. Another thing that I discovered in our company is that often the web-crawling robots will account for a lot of traffic. MoinMoin already blocks them from most of the expensive actions, but adding some of the pages (notably all pages with canned searches) to robots.txt should help. Last but not least, we have excellent experiences with using Varnish, a caching reverse-proxy. It does an excellent job caching most of the page views for not logged-in users -- which is usually the majority of traffic. I can start changing the macros on the category pages, and prepare a robots.txt file with a list of potentially expensive pages -- if those solutions are accepted. I can also help configuring Varnish, or just provide example configuration. -- Radomir Dopieralski, http://sheep.art.pl From martin at v.loewis.de Thu Aug 12 22:10:27 2010 From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?UTF-8?B?Ik1hcnRpbiB2LiBMw7Z3aXMi?=) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 22:10:27 +0200 Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: Wiki Internal Server Error In-Reply-To: References: <20100809231213.GA23097@panix.com> <20100810141913.GA1187@panix.com> <4C61C84F.1070404@v.loewis.de> <201008110016.53139.paul@boddie.org.uk> <4C61D1D7.1070200@v.loewis.de> <4C61D69E.6040704@holdenweb.com> <4C61DA96.6020906@v.loewis.de> <4C61E44E.1070100@v.loewis.de> <4C61EC80.3070507@holdenweb.com> Message-ID: <4C645533.4050603@v.loewis.de> > I can start changing the macros on the category pages, and prepare a > robots.txt file with a list of potentially expensive pages -- > if those solutions are accepted. These sound fine to me. I'm a bit skeptical about the robots exclusion: many of the expensive operations are queries, right? and those can't be blocked by robots exclusion. > I can also help > configuring Varnish, or just provide example configuration. I'm really skeptical about any proposals to do caching, because I just don't believe that those pages that will get cached contribute to the load in any significant way. It's rather the pages that will *not* get cached that cause the load, or, if they get cached, they contribute to user confusion as they don't update in the way in which they should update. Regards, Martin From sheep at sheep.art.pl Thu Aug 12 22:37:27 2010 From: sheep at sheep.art.pl (Radomir Dopieralski) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 22:37:27 +0200 Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: Wiki Internal Server Error In-Reply-To: <4C645533.4050603@v.loewis.de> References: <20100809231213.GA23097@panix.com> <20100810141913.GA1187@panix.com> <4C61C84F.1070404@v.loewis.de> <201008110016.53139.paul@boddie.org.uk> <4C61D1D7.1070200@v.loewis.de> <4C61D69E.6040704@holdenweb.com> <4C61DA96.6020906@v.loewis.de> <4C61E44E.1070100@v.loewis.de> <4C61EC80.3070507@holdenweb.com> <4C645533.4050603@v.loewis.de> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 10:10 PM, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote: >> I can start changing the macros on the category pages, and prepare a >> robots.txt file with a list of potentially expensive pages -- >> if those solutions are accepted. > > These sound fine to me. I'm a bit skeptical about the robots exclusion: > many of the expensive operations are queries, right? and those can't > be blocked by robots exclusion. Moin already blocks robots from queries. The problem are canned queries embedded in wiki pages as macros. >> I can ?also help >> configuring Varnish, or just provide example configuration. > > I'm really skeptical about any proposals to do caching, because I just > don't believe that those pages that will get cached contribute to the > load in any significant way. It's rather the pages that will *not* > get cached that cause the load, or, if they get cached, they contribute > to user confusion as they don't update in the way in which they should > update. That is really very specific to the website -- that's why you need a custom configuration each time. I agree that the outcome is uncertain for the work involved. -- Radomir Dopieralski, http://sheep.art.pl From martin at v.loewis.de Fri Aug 13 11:21:15 2010 From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 11:21:15 +0200 Subject: [pydotorg-www] Old Xserve system (macteagle) Message-ID: <4C650E8B.5060904@v.loewis.de> Some while ago, Apple gave an XServe system to Guido as a gift (?), which is now sitting mainly unused in Amsterdam. XS4ALL has now asked that it is remvoed from the rack. Would anybody like to host this box, and use for some PSF purpose? (I vaguely recall somebody already offered doing so, but forgot the details). Regards, Martin From martin at v.loewis.de Fri Aug 13 11:42:35 2010 From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 11:42:35 +0200 Subject: [pydotorg-www] Wiki moved to dinsdale (2nd try) In-Reply-To: <4C646AD1.6090404@v.loewis.de> References: <4C646AD1.6090404@v.loewis.de> Message-ID: <4C65138B.8050404@v.loewis.de> With Kai Storbeck's help, I figured out that I had to ping the router once from the new system to make moving the address work. I have now moved the wiki to dinsdale a second time, and this time, it really seems to work :-) I have given the wiki 4 CPUs, and removed the CPU quota. Again, if there are problems, please let me know. Regards, Martin From aahz at pythoncraft.com Fri Aug 13 16:07:05 2010 From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 07:07:05 -0700 Subject: [pydotorg-www] Wiki moved to dinsdale (2nd try) In-Reply-To: <4C65138B.8050404@v.loewis.de> References: <4C646AD1.6090404@v.loewis.de> <4C65138B.8050404@v.loewis.de> Message-ID: <20100813140705.GA24936@panix.com> On Fri, Aug 13, 2010, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote: > > With Kai Storbeck's help, I figured out that I had to ping the router > once from the new system to make moving the address work. Whoo-hoo! It's a lot faster now! -- Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/ "...if I were on life-support, I'd rather have it run by a Gameboy than a Windows box." --Cliff Wells From barry at python.org Fri Aug 13 18:11:59 2010 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 12:11:59 -0400 Subject: [pydotorg-www] Old Xserve system (macteagle) In-Reply-To: <4C650E8B.5060904@v.loewis.de> References: <4C650E8B.5060904@v.loewis.de> Message-ID: <20100813121159.6a948edf@heresy> On Aug 13, 2010, at 11:21 AM, Martin v. L?wis wrote: >Some while ago, Apple gave an XServe system to Guido as a gift (?), >which is now sitting mainly unused in Amsterdam. XS4ALL has now asked >that it is remvoed from the rack. > >Would anybody like to host this box, and use for some PSF purpose? >(I vaguely recall somebody already offered doing so, but forgot >the details). Do you know if it's a PPC or Intel box? I'm guessing it's probably pretty old and a PPC. I can't imagine we really have much of a use for it. Maybe we can hit up Glyph to get Apple to exchange it for a newer one? It might make for a useful buildbot if we can find a home for it. -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: not available URL: From steve at holdenweb.com Fri Aug 13 19:03:20 2010 From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 13:03:20 -0400 Subject: [pydotorg-www] [PSF-Members] Old Xserve system (macteagle) In-Reply-To: <20100813161214.GB26284@lairds.us> References: <4C650E8B.5060904@v.loewis.de> <20100813161214.GB26284@lairds.us> Message-ID: <4C657AD8.60800@holdenweb.com> On 8/13/2010 12:12 PM, Cameron Laird wrote: > On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 11:21:15AM +0200, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote: > . > . > . >> Some while ago, Apple gave an XServe system to Guido as a gift (?), >> which is now sitting mainly unused in Amsterdam. XS4ALL has now asked >> that it is remvoed from the rack. >> >> Would anybody like to host this box, and use for some PSF purpose? >> (I vaguely recall somebody already offered doing so, but forgot >> the details). > . > . > . > Hmmmm. > > I'll wildly speculate that several groups (Tkinter maintainers? > 3.x-vs-2.x compatibility verifiers? ...) would love even remote > access to a well-maintained Mac OS host. I doubt that I'm in a > good position to judge what the optimum outcome of this episode > is. Maybe Titus Brown's team could be persuaded to host it? They already have a large heap of rusting iron that comprises the hopefully not entirely defunct Snakebite farm ... regards Steve -- Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119 DjangoCon US September 7-9, 2010 http://djangocon.us/ See Python Video! http://python.mirocommunity.org/ Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/ From Cameron at phaseit.net Fri Aug 13 18:12:14 2010 From: Cameron at phaseit.net (Cameron Laird) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 16:12:14 +0000 Subject: [pydotorg-www] [PSF-Members] Old Xserve system (macteagle) In-Reply-To: <4C650E8B.5060904@v.loewis.de> References: <4C650E8B.5060904@v.loewis.de> Message-ID: <20100813161214.GB26284@lairds.us> On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 11:21:15AM +0200, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote: . . . > Some while ago, Apple gave an XServe system to Guido as a gift (?), > which is now sitting mainly unused in Amsterdam. XS4ALL has now asked > that it is remvoed from the rack. > > Would anybody like to host this box, and use for some PSF purpose? > (I vaguely recall somebody already offered doing so, but forgot > the details). . . . Hmmmm. I'll wildly speculate that several groups (Tkinter maintainers? 3.x-vs-2.x compatibility verifiers? ...) would love even remote access to a well-maintained Mac OS host. I doubt that I'm in a good position to judge what the optimum outcome of this episode is. From ctb at msu.edu Sun Aug 15 05:34:06 2010 From: ctb at msu.edu (C. Titus Brown) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 20:34:06 -0700 Subject: [pydotorg-www] [PSF-Members] Old Xserve system (macteagle) In-Reply-To: <4C657AD8.60800@holdenweb.com> References: <4C650E8B.5060904@v.loewis.de> <20100813161214.GB26284@lairds.us> <4C657AD8.60800@holdenweb.com> Message-ID: <20100815033406.GB8120@idyll.org> On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 01:03:20PM -0400, Steve Holden wrote: > On 8/13/2010 12:12 PM, Cameron Laird wrote: > > On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 11:21:15AM +0200, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote: > > . > > . > > . > >> Some while ago, Apple gave an XServe system to Guido as a gift (?), > >> which is now sitting mainly unused in Amsterdam. XS4ALL has now asked > >> that it is remvoed from the rack. > >> > >> Would anybody like to host this box, and use for some PSF purpose? > >> (I vaguely recall somebody already offered doing so, but forgot > >> the details). > > . > > . > > . > > Hmmmm. > > > > I'll wildly speculate that several groups (Tkinter maintainers? > > 3.x-vs-2.x compatibility verifiers? ...) would love even remote > > access to a well-maintained Mac OS host. I doubt that I'm in a > > good position to judge what the optimum outcome of this episode > > is. > > Maybe Titus Brown's team could be persuaded to host it? They already > have a large heap of rusting iron that comprises the hopefully not > entirely defunct Snakebite farm ... I've already offered remote login access to an iMac in my lab; that's newer and faster and ... . I think we need people to actually do the work. Hardware does not seem to be the primary blocker on this kind of stuff, as far as I can tell. If it is, the PSF would be better off buying a developer a Mac laptop, so that they can actually test things like Tkinter directly. cheers, --titus -- C. Titus Brown, ctb at msu.edu From georg at python.org Sun Aug 15 14:38:18 2010 From: georg at python.org (Georg Brandl) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 14:38:18 +0200 Subject: [pydotorg-www] [PSF-Members] Old Xserve system (macteagle) In-Reply-To: <20100815033406.GB8120@idyll.org> References: <4C650E8B.5060904@v.loewis.de> <20100813161214.GB26284@lairds.us> <4C657AD8.60800@holdenweb.com> <20100815033406.GB8120@idyll.org> Message-ID: <4C67DFBA.4090405@python.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Am 15.08.2010 05:34, schrieb C. Titus Brown: > On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 01:03:20PM -0400, Steve Holden wrote: >> On 8/13/2010 12:12 PM, Cameron Laird wrote: >> > On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 11:21:15AM +0200, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote: >> > . >> > . >> > . >> >> Some while ago, Apple gave an XServe system to Guido as a gift (?), >> >> which is now sitting mainly unused in Amsterdam. XS4ALL has now asked >> >> that it is remvoed from the rack. >> >> >> >> Would anybody like to host this box, and use for some PSF purpose? >> >> (I vaguely recall somebody already offered doing so, but forgot >> >> the details). >> > . >> > . >> > . >> > Hmmmm. >> > >> > I'll wildly speculate that several groups (Tkinter maintainers? >> > 3.x-vs-2.x compatibility verifiers? ...) would love even remote >> > access to a well-maintained Mac OS host. I doubt that I'm in a >> > good position to judge what the optimum outcome of this episode >> > is. >> >> Maybe Titus Brown's team could be persuaded to host it? They already >> have a large heap of rusting iron that comprises the hopefully not >> entirely defunct Snakebite farm ... > > I've already offered remote login access to an iMac in my lab; that's > newer and faster and ... . > > I think we need people to actually do the work. Hardware does not seem > to be the primary blocker on this kind of stuff, as far as I can tell. > If it is, the PSF would be better off buying a developer a Mac laptop, > so that they can actually test things like Tkinter directly. AFAICS half of them have Macs already anyway... Georg -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkxn37oACgkQN9GcIYhpnLCvLQCgpxy08A8CbZDc1VQnvJId4tr5 AtIAniXLbhusPizL93aPhrwAgP/sZfrR =AUuO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From martin at v.loewis.de Sun Aug 15 15:20:03 2010 From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 15:20:03 +0200 Subject: [pydotorg-www] Old Xserve system (macteagle) In-Reply-To: <20100813121159.6a948edf@heresy> References: <4C650E8B.5060904@v.loewis.de> <20100813121159.6a948edf@heresy> Message-ID: <4C67E983.4070904@v.loewis.de> > Do you know if it's a PPC or Intel box? Hardware Overview: Machine Name: Xserve Machine Model: RackMac1,2 CPU Type: PowerPC G4 (3.3) Number Of CPUs: 2 CPU Speed: 1.33 GHz L2 Cache (per CPU): 256 KB L3 Cache (per CPU): 2 MB Memory: 2 GB Bus Speed: 167 MHz Boot ROM Version: 4.6.5f3 So it seems that we will decommission the machine. HTH, Martin From steve at holdenweb.com Sun Aug 15 16:13:39 2010 From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 10:13:39 -0400 Subject: [pydotorg-www] Old Xserve system (macteagle) In-Reply-To: <4C67E983.4070904@v.loewis.de> References: <4C650E8B.5060904@v.loewis.de> <20100813121159.6a948edf@heresy> <4C67E983.4070904@v.loewis.de> Message-ID: <4C67F613.1010705@holdenweb.com> On 8/15/2010 9:20 AM, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote: > >> Do you know if it's a PPC or Intel box? > > Hardware Overview: > > Machine Name: Xserve > Machine Model: RackMac1,2 > CPU Type: PowerPC G4 (3.3) > Number Of CPUs: 2 > CPU Speed: 1.33 GHz > L2 Cache (per CPU): 256 KB > L3 Cache (per CPU): 2 MB > Memory: 2 GB > Bus Speed: 167 MHz > Boot ROM Version: 4.6.5f3 > > So it seems that we will decommission the machine. > Perhaps the best approach is to advertise it on the members' list as "taker pays carriage"? I don't think we want any money for it. Maybe there's someone who could go and collect it from XS4ALL, but I can't see it would be worth shipping it to the USA. regards Steve -- Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119 DjangoCon US September 7-9, 2010 http://djangocon.us/ See Python Video! http://python.mirocommunity.org/ Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/ From dirkjan at ochtman.nl Sun Aug 15 17:19:08 2010 From: dirkjan at ochtman.nl (Dirkjan Ochtman) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 17:19:08 +0200 Subject: [pydotorg-www] Old Xserve system (macteagle) In-Reply-To: <4C67F613.1010705@holdenweb.com> References: <4C650E8B.5060904@v.loewis.de> <20100813121159.6a948edf@heresy> <4C67E983.4070904@v.loewis.de> <4C67F613.1010705@holdenweb.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 16:13, Steve Holden wrote: > Maybe there's someone who could go and collect it from XS4ALL, but I > can't see it would be worth shipping it to the USA. I'd be happy to collect it, but I don't have rack space I can put it in. :( Cheers, Dirkjan From martin at v.loewis.de Sun Aug 15 17:25:35 2010 From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 17:25:35 +0200 Subject: [pydotorg-www] Old Xserve system (macteagle) In-Reply-To: References: <4C650E8B.5060904@v.loewis.de> <20100813121159.6a948edf@heresy> <4C67E983.4070904@v.loewis.de> <4C67F613.1010705@holdenweb.com> Message-ID: <4C6806EF.2020500@v.loewis.de> Am 15.08.2010 17:19, schrieb Dirkjan Ochtman: > On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 16:13, Steve Holden wrote: >> Maybe there's someone who could go and collect it from XS4ALL, but I >> can't see it would be worth shipping it to the USA. > > I'd be happy to collect it, but I don't have rack space I can put it in. :( Are you in Amsterdam (and/or can get to XS4ALL by car)? Using rack space isn't strictly necessary, you can also place such a system on the floor or some table. It's just that it doesn't have the typical dimensions of a work station. Notice that there is a severe hardware flaw: the machine crashes after about 1min of uptime (or when writing to the disk, or some such). It might be easy to fix, or difficult - but one would probably need to connect a monitor to find out. Regards, Martin From dirkjan at ochtman.nl Sun Aug 15 18:16:14 2010 From: dirkjan at ochtman.nl (Dirkjan Ochtman) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 18:16:14 +0200 Subject: [pydotorg-www] Old Xserve system (macteagle) In-Reply-To: <4C6806EF.2020500@v.loewis.de> References: <4C650E8B.5060904@v.loewis.de> <20100813121159.6a948edf@heresy> <4C67E983.4070904@v.loewis.de> <4C67F613.1010705@holdenweb.com> <4C6806EF.2020500@v.loewis.de> Message-ID: On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 17:25, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote: > Are you in Amsterdam (and/or can get to XS4ALL by car)? Yes to both. > Using rack space isn't strictly necessary, you can also place such a > system on the floor or some table. It's just that it doesn't have the > typical dimensions of a work station. Well, sure, but I don't have that kind of space, either. We could perhaps try to find another sponsor? > Notice that there is a severe hardware flaw: the machine crashes after > about 1min of uptime (or when writing to the disk, or some such). It > might be easy to fix, or difficult - but one would probably need to > connect a monitor to find out. Hmm, okay. Cheers, Dirkjan From martin at v.loewis.de Sun Aug 15 18:26:15 2010 From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?UTF-8?B?Ik1hcnRpbiB2LiBMw7Z3aXMi?=) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 18:26:15 +0200 Subject: [pydotorg-www] Old Xserve system (macteagle) In-Reply-To: References: <4C650E8B.5060904@v.loewis.de> <20100813121159.6a948edf@heresy> <4C67E983.4070904@v.loewis.de> <4C67F613.1010705@holdenweb.com> <4C6806EF.2020500@v.loewis.de> Message-ID: <4C681527.9010807@v.loewis.de> > Well, sure, but I don't have that kind of space, either. We could > perhaps try to find another sponsor? I have tried to - nobody wants it. They are unlikely to react positively to the hardware problems, also. So unless you step forward and say that you *want* the hardware (to disassemble it, or do anything you like), I'm back to finding a way to decommission it. Regards, Martin From steve at holdenweb.com Sun Aug 15 19:08:21 2010 From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 13:08:21 -0400 Subject: [pydotorg-www] Old Xserve system (macteagle) In-Reply-To: <4C6806EF.2020500@v.loewis.de> References: <4C650E8B.5060904@v.loewis.de> <20100813121159.6a948edf@heresy> <4C67E983.4070904@v.loewis.de> <4C67F613.1010705@holdenweb.com> <4C6806EF.2020500@v.loewis.de> Message-ID: <4C681F05.6060802@holdenweb.com> On 8/15/2010 11:25 AM, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote: > Am 15.08.2010 17:19, schrieb Dirkjan Ochtman: >> On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 16:13, Steve Holden wrote: >>> Maybe there's someone who could go and collect it from XS4ALL, but I >>> can't see it would be worth shipping it to the USA. >> >> I'd be happy to collect it, but I don't have rack space I can put it in. :( > > Are you in Amsterdam (and/or can get to XS4ALL by car)? > > Using rack space isn't strictly necessary, you can also place such a > system on the floor or some table. It's just that it doesn't have the > typical dimensions of a work station. > > Notice that there is a severe hardware flaw: the machine crashes after > about 1min of uptime (or when writing to the disk, or some such). It > might be easy to fix, or difficult - but one would probably need to > connect a monitor to find out. So it isn't a computer, it's scrap. regards Steve -- Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119 DjangoCon US September 7-9, 2010 http://djangocon.us/ See Python Video! http://python.mirocommunity.org/ Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/ From barry at python.org Mon Aug 16 16:33:06 2010 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 10:33:06 -0400 Subject: [pydotorg-www] Old Xserve system (macteagle) In-Reply-To: <4C681527.9010807@v.loewis.de> References: <4C650E8B.5060904@v.loewis.de> <20100813121159.6a948edf@heresy> <4C67E983.4070904@v.loewis.de> <4C67F613.1010705@holdenweb.com> <4C6806EF.2020500@v.loewis.de> <4C681527.9010807@v.loewis.de> Message-ID: <20100816103306.2ca10376@heresy> On Aug 15, 2010, at 06:26 PM, Martin v. L?wis wrote: >> Well, sure, but I don't have that kind of space, either. We could >> perhaps try to find another sponsor? > >I have tried to - nobody wants it. They are unlikely to react >positively to the hardware problems, also. > >So unless you step forward and say that you *want* the hardware (to >disassemble it, or do anything you like), I'm back to finding a way >to decommission it. Have you ever seen the movie Office Space? Three words: PC LOAD LETTER :) -Barry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC_LOAD_LETTER -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: not available URL: From amk at amk.ca Thu Aug 19 01:52:08 2010 From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 19:52:08 -0400 Subject: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: Jim Baker: Unable to edit at least one Jython page on the wiki Message-ID: <20100818235208.GA28521@andrew-kuchlings-macbook.local> I confess that I don't really understand MoinMoin's ACLs. Does anyone know why Jim is unable to edit? This might well predate the move to dinsdale; I've noticed a few pages in the Jython wiki that I can't edit, though my account is listed in the AdminGroup. --amk -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Jim Baker Subject: Unable to edit at least one Jython page on the wiki Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 19:41:08 -0600 Size: 3928 URL: From jbaker at zyasoft.com Thu Aug 19 03:58:51 2010 From: jbaker at zyasoft.com (Jim Baker) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 19:58:51 -0600 Subject: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: Unable to edit at least one Jython page on the wiki In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I sent this request directly to Andrew, but this may be the better list to get support, or at least forward me on to the right one. Anyway I really would like to update this obsolete page asap, since there's been a recent bug report from a confused user (and I'm sure this is the proverbial tip of the iceberg). Thanks! - Jim ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Jim Baker Date: Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 7:41 PM Subject: Unable to edit at least one Jython page on the wiki To: Andrew Kuchling Andrew, For some reason my JimBaker account is blocked from editing this page: http://wiki.python.org/jython/ReadlineSetup There may be more, it's just this one is pretty much wrong now, with a recent user bug about it. Naturally I would expect to edit any page in the Python wiki, but certainly that should be the case for the Jython subset! :) Sorry to ping you personally, I didn't see an admin email contact. - Jim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul at boddie.org.uk Thu Aug 19 21:32:15 2010 From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 21:32:15 +0200 Subject: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: Jim Baker: Unable to edit at least one Jython page on the wiki In-Reply-To: <20100818235208.GA28521@andrew-kuchlings-macbook.local> References: <20100818235208.GA28521@andrew-kuchlings-macbook.local> Message-ID: <201008192132.16013.paul@boddie.org.uk> On Thursday 19 August 2010 01:52:08 A.M. Kuchling wrote: > I confess that I don't really understand MoinMoin's ACLs. Does anyone > know why Jim is unable to edit? This might well predate the move to > dinsdale; I've noticed a few pages in the Jython wiki that I can't > edit, though my account is listed in the AdminGroup. I can't edit, either, and I'm a member of AdminGroup (which may only have read/write privileges by default for all pages, rather than universal read/write privileges regardless of page ACLs, which is a matter of Wiki configuration) as well as the MoinPagesEditorGroup (which does have privileges on the page concerned). Maybe something went wrong in the migration to the new machine. Perhaps the file permissions got modified in some way. Paul From martin at v.loewis.de Thu Aug 19 22:48:11 2010 From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 22:48:11 +0200 Subject: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: Jim Baker: Unable to edit at least one Jython page on the wiki In-Reply-To: <201008192132.16013.paul@boddie.org.uk> References: <20100818235208.GA28521@andrew-kuchlings-macbook.local> <201008192132.16013.paul@boddie.org.uk> Message-ID: <4C6D988B.5060304@v.loewis.de> > Maybe something went wrong in the migration to the new machine. Perhaps the > file permissions got modified in some way. It looks all fine to me. They all belong to nobody, which is the uid under which Apache runs. Regards, Martin From sheep at sheep.art.pl Thu Aug 19 23:30:03 2010 From: sheep at sheep.art.pl (Radomir Dopieralski) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 23:30:03 +0200 Subject: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: Jim Baker: Unable to edit at least one Jython page on the wiki In-Reply-To: <4C6D988B.5060304@v.loewis.de> References: <20100818235208.GA28521@andrew-kuchlings-macbook.local> <201008192132.16013.paul@boddie.org.uk> <4C6D988B.5060304@v.loewis.de> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 10:48 PM, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote: >> Maybe something went wrong in the migration to the new machine. Perhaps the >> file permissions got modified in some way. > > It looks all fine to me. They all belong to nobody, which is the uid > under which Apache runs. If you created an user for me on the new server (copy the ssh key from ~sheep on the old one), then I could look at the configuration and maybe find the problem. -- Radomir Dopieralski, http://sheep.art.pl From martin at v.loewis.de Thu Aug 19 23:48:36 2010 From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?UTF-8?B?Ik1hcnRpbiB2LiBMw7Z3aXMi?=) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 23:48:36 +0200 Subject: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: Jim Baker: Unable to edit at least one Jython page on the wiki In-Reply-To: References: <20100818235208.GA28521@andrew-kuchlings-macbook.local> <201008192132.16013.paul@boddie.org.uk> <4C6D988B.5060304@v.loewis.de> Message-ID: <4C6DA6B4.5030703@v.loewis.de> > If you created an user for me on the new server (copy the ssh key from ~sheep on > the old one), then I could look at the configuration and maybe find the problem. Done! Martin From michael at voidspace.org.uk Mon Aug 23 10:03:44 2010 From: michael at voidspace.org.uk (Michael Foord) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 11:03:44 +0300 Subject: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: Wearpython is down Message-ID: <4C722B60.3020806@voidspace.org.uk> Hello Greg, I believe you are one of the brains (or perhaps the brawn?) behind Wearpython? Currently the site is down and we link to it from the community section of python.org. Do you anticipate the site being reinstated soon, or should we remove the link? All the best, Michael Foord -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Wearpython is down Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 14:47:13 +0200 From: Daniel Biehle To: webmaster at python.org Hello there, I just wanted to let you know that on your merchandise area (/community/merchandise/"), when users click on the WearPython link, they're being redirected to http://69.164.205.220/ which is broken. Googling WearPython didn't really help and www.wearpython.com neither. Regards, Daniel. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steve at holdenweb.com Tue Aug 24 20:48:44 2010 From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 14:48:44 -0400 Subject: [pydotorg-www] http://www.python.org/community/awards/frank-willison/ Message-ID: <4C74140C.3050802@holdenweb.com> This page needs updating - we need to add Mark Hammond for last year and Chris Tismer for this. regards Steve -- Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119 DjangoCon US September 7-9, 2010 http://djangocon.us/ See Python Video! http://python.mirocommunity.org/ Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/ From patcam at python.org Tue Aug 24 22:56:59 2010 From: patcam at python.org (Pat Campbell) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 16:56:59 -0400 Subject: [pydotorg-www] http://www.python.org/community/awards/frank-willison/ In-Reply-To: <4C74140C.3050802@holdenweb.com> References: <4C74140C.3050802@holdenweb.com> Message-ID: Thanks Steve. Pat On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 2:48 PM, Steve Holden wrote: > This page needs updating - we need to add Mark Hammond for last year and > Chris Tismer for this. > > regards > Steve > -- > Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119 > DjangoCon US September 7-9, 2010 http://djangocon.us/ > See Python Video! http://python.mirocommunity.org/ > Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/ > -- Pat Campbell PSF Administrator/Secretary patcam at python.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From michael at voidspace.org.uk Wed Aug 25 20:15:44 2010 From: michael at voidspace.org.uk (Michael Foord) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 21:15:44 +0300 Subject: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: Subversion / TortoiseSVN links on http://www.python.org/dev/faq/ Message-ID: <4C755DD0.6040201@voidspace.org.uk> Hey Brett, (Also copied to pydotorg-www 'for the record'.) It seems like there are some out of date links in the developer FAQ. All the best, Michael -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Subversion / TortoiseSVN links on http://www.python.org/dev/faq/ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 08:55:56 +0100 From: Tim Golden To: webmaster at python.org The section at: http://www.python.org/dev/faq/#version-control include out-of-date links for Subversion, which has now moved to Apache. The canonical address appears now to be: Subversion: http://subversion.apache.org/ download Subversion: http://subversion.apache.org/packages.html In addition, the download link for TortoiseSVN is out of date on http://www.python.org/dev/faq/#windows download TortoiseSVN: http://tortoisesvn.net/downloads Also, it might be prudent to remove the trunk URL from the section: http://www.python.org/dev/faq/#how-do-i-get-a-checkout-of-the-repository-read-only-or-read-write (All reported by Robert Kaplan) TJG Tim Golden Senior Analyst Programmer CBS Outdoor UK Camden Wharf 28 Jamestown Road London NW1 7BY T: 020 7482 3000 F: 020 7267 4944 http://www.cbsoutdoor.co.uk/ http://www.cbsoutdoor.co.uk/ http://www.facebook.com/cbsinnovate Don't waste paper. Think before you print. The contents of this e-mail are confidential to the ordinary user of the e-mail address to which it was addressed, and may also be privileged. If you are not the addressee of this e-mail you may not copy, forward, disclose or otherwise use it or any part of it in any form whatsoever. If you have received this e-mail in error, please e-mail the sender by replying to this message. CBS Outdoor Ltd reserves the right to monitor e-mail communications from external/internal sources for the purposes of ensuring correct and appropriate use of CBS Outdoor facilities. CBS Outdoor Limited, registered in England and Wales with company number 02866133 and registered address at Camden Wharf, 28 Jamestown Road, London, NW1 7BY. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From michael at voidspace.org.uk Wed Aug 25 22:45:46 2010 From: michael at voidspace.org.uk (Michael Foord) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 23:45:46 +0300 Subject: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: Misleading or incomplete 64-bit download information Message-ID: <4C7580FA.4080307@voidspace.org.uk> Suggestion on adding some information about Windows 64bit builds to the download pages. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Misleading or incomplete 64-bit download information Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 16:10:20 -0400 From: Art Huston To: webmaster at python.org Hi, Please consider adding a note on the Windows X86-64 MSI Installer instructions to reflect the fact that while you can download the 64-bit version, you will sacrifice compatibility with 32-bit libraries and utilities, many of which are not available in 64-bit. The existing footnote "[1] The binaries for AMD64 will also work ..." is a bit misleading or incomplete, since it encourages 64-bit OS users to download the 64-bit version without mentioning the restrictions. It could be placed in the text near the Windows X86-64 MSI Installer link, or placed as an additional footnote. Also, please note that the footnote "[1]" is not referenced anywhere else in the text and is easy to overlook for that reason. Best, Art Huston ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Matthew Dixon Cowles Date: Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 3:13 PM Subject: Re: [Python-Help] python 2.7 not found installing setuptools on Windows To: Art Huston Cc: help at python.org Dear Art, > That works just fine, great! I'm glad it's working for you now. > [1] The binaries > for AMD64 will also work on processors that implement the Intel 64 > architecture (formerly EM64T), i.e. the architecture that Microsoft > calls x64, and AMD called x86-64 before calling it AMD64. They will > not work on Intel Itanium Processors (formerly IA-64). > Perhaps that's not the most useful information, and you should > advise using the 32-bit version? It is perhaps a bit incomplete in that it doesn't mention that more things are compiled to work with the 32-bit version. If you'd like to email python.org's webmaster team to mention that, they might well adjust the wording a bit. Regards, Matt -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From martin at v.loewis.de Thu Aug 26 00:29:08 2010 From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 00:29:08 +0200 Subject: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: Misleading or incomplete 64-bit download information In-Reply-To: <4C7580FA.4080307@voidspace.org.uk> References: <4C7580FA.4080307@voidspace.org.uk> Message-ID: <4C759934.6080607@v.loewis.de> Am 25.08.2010 22:45, schrieb Michael Foord: > Suggestion on adding some information about Windows 64bit builds to the > download pages. Since this note is yours: feel free to change it. It is true that you can't load a 32-bit extension into a 64-bit interpreter, or vice versa. It also fails to mention that you not only need the processor, but also a 64-bit version of Windows to run them. I'm not sure how much of a 64-bit tutorial the release note need to be. It fails to mention a lot of other things, also, e.g. that the maximum value of the int type is different on a 64-bit python, that you may get negative hashes on a 64-bit Python when you only get positive numbers on a 32-bit Python, that all pointers require two times as much memory, so that the memory consumption goes up, and that you can just as well run the 32-bit Python version on a 64-bit Windows, etc. In short: everybody confronted with 64-bit computing for the first time will get confused about something, and then demand that this specific something is prominently displayed in the documentation. Regards, Martin From michael at voidspace.org.uk Sun Aug 29 15:25:11 2010 From: michael at voidspace.org.uk (Michael Foord) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 16:25:11 +0300 Subject: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: Python.org Blocks My ISP (CLEAR, formerly Clearwire) Message-ID: <4C7A5FB7.30604@voidspace.org.uk> -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Python.org Blocks My ISP (CLEAR, formerly Clearwire) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 22:32:07 -0500 From: Marcus Urban To: webmaster at python.org Your site seems to be blocking many IP addresses from my ISP, CLEAR (formerly Clearwire), including the IP address 50.8.62.192. According, to CLEAR, they recently purchased a block of IP addresses that were previously allocated to a European ISP. These addresses are now being used by CLEAR for customers like me in Texas and possibly other parts of the USA. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gslindstrom at gmail.com Mon Aug 23 17:09:30 2010 From: gslindstrom at gmail.com (Greg Lindstrom) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 10:09:30 -0500 Subject: [pydotorg-www] Wearpython is down In-Reply-To: <4C722B60.3020806@voidspace.org.uk> References: <4C722B60.3020806@voidspace.org.uk> Message-ID: Hi Michael, We have been trying to get a Satchmo-based web site up for quote a while now but it is just beyond what I am able to do. We have had two or three people say they'd help us, but it hasn't worked out. Janet, who tightly controls every imaginable aspect of the business, mentioned that she might be able to get a site up. Perhaps she has looked into it. Otherwise, I would suggest you remove the link until we are able to get something up. Thanks, --greg On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 3:03 AM, Michael Foord wrote: > Hello Greg, > > I believe you are one of the brains (or perhaps the brawn?) behind > Wearpython? Currently the site is down and we link to it from the community > section of python.org. Do you anticipate the site being reinstated soon, > or should we remove the link? > > All the best, > > Michael Foord > > -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Wearpython is down Date: Sun, > 22 Aug 2010 14:47:13 +0200 From: Daniel Biehle To: > webmaster at python.org > > Hello there, > > I just wanted to let you know that on your merchandise area > (/community/merchandise/"), when users click on > the WearPython link, they're being redirected to http://69.164.205.220/ which > is broken. Googling WearPython didn't > really help and www.wearpython.com neither. > > Regards, > Daniel. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de Sun Aug 29 18:54:33 2010 From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 18:54:33 +0200 Subject: [pydotorg-www] [Pydotorg] Fwd: Python.org Blocks My ISP (CLEAR, formerly Clearwire) In-Reply-To: <4C7A5FB7.30604@voidspace.org.uk> References: <4C7A5FB7.30604@voidspace.org.uk> Message-ID: <20100829165433.GB10334@charite.de> * Michael Foord : > Your site seems to be blocking many IP addresses from my ISP, CLEAR > (formerly Clearwire), including the IP address 50.8.62.192. You're talking about email? I'll check that > According, to CLEAR, they recently purchased a block of IP addresses > that were previously allocated to a European ISP. These addresses are > now being used by CLEAR for customers like me in Texas and possibly > other parts of the USA. -- Ralf Hildebrandt Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin Campus Benjamin Franklin Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962 ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de From webmaster at python.org Mon Aug 30 10:49:03 2010 From: webmaster at python.org (Python.org Team) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 11:49:03 +0300 Subject: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: Python license Message-ID: <4C7B707F.3050802@python.org> See Marc-Andre's comments about making the license more prominent on the website. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Python license Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 10:42:51 +0200 From: M.-A. Lemburg Organization: eGenix.com Software GmbH; http://www.egenix.com/ To: webmaster at python.org Dear webmasters, while discussing an issue related to the Python download page and crypto code: http://bugs.python.org/issue9119 I found that the Python license is not well presented on the python.org website. Here's the snippet from the ticket discussion: """ I have a little trouble actually finding the license text on the python.org web-site. It is not mentioned on the download page, there's no mention of it in the downloads nav bar, nor in the documentation section of the site. Only the "about" section includes a mention of the license and the "foundation" section even mentions it in the nav bar (but that's not where people would look to find it). What's worse: all links point to: http://www.python.org/psf/license/ and that page refers to the Python 2.6.2 license... """ I'd suggest that the "download", "documentation" and "about" section include a "license" link to http://www.python.org/psf/license/ - or just make it a top-level nav bar entry. This page would then need to be updated to point to http://docs.python.org/license.html instead of the 2.6.2 license. The download pages themselves should also include a link to this license page (possibly versioned, e.g. http://docs.python.org/release/2.6.2/license.html), but I'm not sure whether this is part of the site or the release process setup. Thanks, -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Services directly from the Source (#1, Aug 27 2010) >>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ... http://www.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ 2010-08-19: Released mxODBC 3.1.0 http://python.egenix.com/ 2010-09-15: DZUG Tagung, Dresden, Germany 18 days to go ::: Try our new mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! :::: eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH Pastor-Loeh-Str.48 D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611 http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ode5002 at blueyonder.co.uk Tue Aug 31 22:52:12 2010 From: ode5002 at blueyonder.co.uk (ode) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 21:52:12 +0100 Subject: [pydotorg-www] No mention of 'From Python Import Podcast' Podcast Message-ID: <4C7D6B7C.1030705@blueyonder.co.uk> I was viewing http://www.python.org/doc/av/ and http://advocacy.python.org/podcasts/ and noticed that the new 'From Python Import Podcast' podcast - http://frompythonimportpodcast.com/ is absent.