From vasudevram at gmail.com  Sun May  1 13:54:49 2016
From: vasudevram at gmail.com (Vasudev Ram)
Date: Sun, 1 May 2016 23:24:49 +0530
Subject: [PSF-Community] 2016 Upcoming PSF Sponsor Member Vote (April 19, 2016)
In-Reply-To: <CADx+GQPLqN7YS4OKkhn0iFC6GG4EjW3qL3ga48uzZ=bg3zcYLQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADx+GQPLqN7YS4OKkhn0iFC6GG4EjW3qL3ga48uzZ=bg3zcYLQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAM3uJy+Fomtw3EMCszAz6VMHXnP6P6Fk-29tkw3mgx+zmn0SrA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I just voted. (BTW, like many others, I also got the ballot somewhat late,
after many emails had been sent to this thread - just a FYI for the
administrators, if it helps).

I noticed while on the vote page that all or most of the text was in
capital letters.

e.g.

YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS SPONSORSHIP BALLOT BECAUSE YOU ARE A VOTING MEMBER
OF THE PYTHON SOFTWARE FOUNDATION.  THE PSF HAS RECOMMENDED THAT

To the election officials: It may be preferable not to have all caps,
unless there is some strong reason for it.

This is a general guideline for stuff posted on the Net (see Netiquette in
Google or Wikipedia), and it is because all caps is considered the online
equivalent of shouting.

HTH,
Vasudev
---
Vasudev Ram -
?Software training and consulting:

- Python, C, Linux, databases, open source, ...
- Web site: https://vasudevram.github.io
- Blog: http://jugad2.blogspot.com
About: http://jugad2.blogspot.in/p/about-vasudev-ram.html

On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 5:05 AM, Ewa Jodlowska <ewa at python.org> wrote:

> Attention all members:
>
> On April 19, 2016 AoE[1] we will launch a vote for two pending PSF Sponsor
> Members.
>
> If you are a voting member, you will receive a ballot. If you are not a
> voting
> member, but would like to become one, please apply to be a contributing or
> managing member (with voting privileges) by April 18, 2016 AoE.
>
> The application form is available here: http://goo.gl/forms/Kb45fTcVyg
> <https://goo.gl/A0oKx9>.
>
> If you do not know if you are a voting member, please email me off-list
> and
> I will check.
>
> Voter application cut-off date: April 18, 2016 AoE
>
> Voting start date: April 19, 2016 AoE
> Voting end date: May 3, 2016 AoE
>
> [1]AoE (Anywhere on earth): http://www.timeanddate.com/time/zones/aoe
>
> Best regards,
>
> Ewa
> Director of Operations
> Python Software Foundation
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> PSF-Community mailing list
> PSF-Community at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>
>
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From ewa at python.org  Mon May  2 09:39:51 2016
From: ewa at python.org (Ewa Jodlowska)
Date: Mon, 2 May 2016 08:39:51 -0500
Subject: [PSF-Community] Notification: Upcoming 2016/17 PSF Board Elections
Message-ID: <CADx+GQOCnDEt3QUO6_2+YZP1Asax_QqoQVfkPfXt7NQ7Nki_LA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear members,

We would like to notify you of the upcoming Python Software Foundation
board elections for the 2016/17 term. If you know of anyone who is
interested in running for the board or you yourself are interested, please
read our recent blog post about the process:


http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2016/04/run-for-2016-board-of-directors.html

Here is the timeline for the election:

Day 1: May 5, 2016 AoE - voting eligibilty announcement is made
Day 10: May 15, 2016 AoE - nominations and voting eligibility closes
Day 15: May 20, 2016 AoE - Ballots are sent
Day 25: May 30, 2016 AoE - election closes

Best regards,

Ewa
Director of Operations
Python Software Foundation
Cell: 415-319-5237
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From mmangoba at python.org  Sun May  1 14:25:20 2016
From: mmangoba at python.org (Mark Mangoba)
Date: Sun, 1 May 2016 11:25:20 -0700
Subject: [PSF-Community] 2016 Upcoming PSF Sponsor Member Vote (April 19, 2016)
In-Reply-To: <CAM3uJy+Fomtw3EMCszAz6VMHXnP6P6Fk-29tkw3mgx+zmn0SrA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADx+GQPLqN7YS4OKkhn0iFC6GG4EjW3qL3ga48uzZ=bg3zcYLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAM3uJy+Fomtw3EMCszAz6VMHXnP6P6Fk-29tkw3mgx+zmn0SrA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABkWifQe==JiQD832gu7ehcGEw1wv3Y06RWubWAHvvGFVUUkUA@mail.gmail.com>

Colleagues,



I appreciate your comments and suggestions, and will continue to work with
the volunteers to improve the voting process.  It?s nice to see such an
active community of volunteers and members working together.



We worked out the SMTP issue this weekend ? and that is why your ballots
are being delivered.  There is no intent to have this all in caps, etc. as
the framework was upgraded and noticed a couple bugs with the style.


We will fix this for the next vote.  I encourage you to be a part of the
vote.



Please feel free to email me directly with any other questions or concerns,
at mmangoba at python.org.



Best regards,

Mark

On Sun, May 1, 2016 at 10:54 AM, Vasudev Ram <vasudevram at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> I just voted. (BTW, like many others, I also got the ballot somewhat late,
> after many emails had been sent to this thread - just a FYI for the
> administrators, if it helps).
>
> I noticed while on the vote page that all or most of the text was in
> capital letters.
>
> e.g.
>
> YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS SPONSORSHIP BALLOT BECAUSE YOU ARE A VOTING MEMBER
> OF THE PYTHON SOFTWARE FOUNDATION.  THE PSF HAS RECOMMENDED THAT
>
> To the election officials: It may be preferable not to have all caps,
> unless there is some strong reason for it.
>
> This is a general guideline for stuff posted on the Net (see Netiquette in
> Google or Wikipedia), and it is because all caps is considered the online
> equivalent of shouting.
>
> HTH,
> Vasudev
> ---
> Vasudev Ram -
> ?Software training and consulting:
>
> - Python, C, Linux, databases, open source, ...
> - Web site: https://vasudevram.github.io
> - Blog: http://jugad2.blogspot.com
> About: http://jugad2.blogspot.in/p/about-vasudev-ram.html
>
> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 5:05 AM, Ewa Jodlowska <ewa at python.org> wrote:
>
>> Attention all members:
>>
>> On April 19, 2016 AoE[1] we will launch a vote for two pending PSF
>> Sponsor
>> Members.
>>
>> If you are a voting member, you will receive a ballot. If you are not a
>> voting
>> member, but would like to become one, please apply to be a contributing or
>> managing member (with voting privileges) by April 18, 2016 AoE.
>>
>> The application form is available here: http://goo.gl/forms/Kb45fTcVyg
>> <https://goo.gl/A0oKx9>.
>>
>> If you do not know if you are a voting member, please email me off-list
>> and
>> I will check.
>>
>> Voter application cut-off date: April 18, 2016 AoE
>>
>> Voting start date: April 19, 2016 AoE
>> Voting end date: May 3, 2016 AoE
>>
>> [1]AoE (Anywhere on earth): http://www.timeanddate.com/time/zones/aoe
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Ewa
>> Director of Operations
>> Python Software Foundation
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> PSF-Community mailing list
>> PSF-Community at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>>
>>
>
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From joseph.lee22590 at gmail.com  Sun May  1 21:04:48 2016
From: joseph.lee22590 at gmail.com (Joseph Lee)
Date: Sun, 1 May 2016 18:04:48 -0700
Subject: [PSF-Community] NVDACon 2016: Tenth Anniversary Keynote (NV Access)
 recording now available!
Message-ID: <000e01d1a40e$a06b2990$e1417cb0$@gmail.com>

Dear members of the NVDA and Python community, blindness community,
mainstream community, NVDA supporters around the world and others:

 

First, thank you very much for making NVDACon 2016/Tenth Anniversary Edition
a huge success. Words cannot describe how grateful the organizers are at
seeing such a turnout at NVDACon events, especially the Keynote presentation
from NV Access (almost 60 participants showed up via various means).

 

As the highlight of NVDACon, here is the complete Keynote archive package:

 

*         Complete/live recording (mp3):
http://www.nvda-kr.org/files/NVDACon_2016_Keynote%20(complete).mp3

*         NVDA: A Global Movement promo:
http://www.nvda-kr.org/files/NVDASR%20movement%20promo.mp3

*         Keynote presentation session including the actual speech and
question and answer session:
http://www.nvda-kr.org/files/NVDACon_2016_Keynote%20(session).mp3

*         Letter of thanks from NVDA community:
http://www.nvda-kr.org/files/NVDACon_2016_Keynote%20(Community%20Letter).mp3

*         Above three files compressed (zip):
http://www.nvda-kr.org/files/NVDACon_2016_Keynote.zip

 

For those who couldn't come to the actual session, some online radio
stations will broadcast the speech portion of the Keynote session.

 

Once again, thanks for your continued support for NVDA. Without you, NVDA,
NV Access and NVDACon would not have existed. Thank you.

Sincerely,

Joseph S. Lee

Department of Communication Studies (student), Los Angeles City College

Former student of computer science, University of California, Riverside

Translator (Korean), code contributor and community add-ons reviewer, NVDA
screen reader project

Chair, NVDA Tenth Anniversary Planning Committee

Chief organizer, International NVDA Users and Developers Conference
(February 2014 to April 2016)

Lead organizer, NVDACon Korea (February 2013 to present)

Organization advisor, NVDACon US (May 2016 to present)

 

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From diana.joan.clarke at gmail.com  Tue May  3 22:54:46 2016
From: diana.joan.clarke at gmail.com (Diana Clarke)
Date: Tue, 3 May 2016 22:54:46 -0400
Subject: [PSF-Community] PSF Board Meeting Minutes - 2016-03-30
Message-ID: <CAEZAPrAjTmVjeU3zX6Zo_o8s+xX6+MGxeZMdnpxSDJ4cTFdhdQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi folks:

The PSF board meeting minutes from March 30th, 2016 are now available online:

    https://www.python.org/psf/records/board/minutes/2016-03-30/

There are also a couple of new posts on the PSF blog since my last
email to you all.

    http://pyfound.blogspot.ca/2016/04/pycamp-argentina.html

    http://pyfound.blogspot.ca/2016/04/run-for-2016-board-of-directors.html

In particular, please note the one about the upcoming election for the
2016 PSF Board of Directors. You have until May 15th to add your name
to the list of candidates. The ballots will be sent out on May 20th,
and the election closes on May 30th.

    https://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonSoftwareFoundation/BoardCandidates2016

Please, please, please don't shy away from running for the board.
There are a number of board members that aren't running again this
year, and fresh faces are healthy for the foundation. Feel free to
reach out to me privately with any questions. You can also reach the
current board at psf-board at python.org.

The PSF provides grants for development, conferences, workshops, and
user groups.

    https://www.python.org/psf/grants/

The following grants were approved since the last board meeting,
totalling $14,595 USD.

  - PyLadies Nigeria
    http://www.meetup.com/pyladiesnigeria/
    Meetup.com fees
    Amount: $45 USD

  - SciPy Latin America
    http://conf.scipyla.org/scipyla2016/
    Florian?polis, Santa Catarina, Brazil
    May 16-20, 2016
    Amount: $2000 USD

  - Django Girls Ogbomoso Workshop
    https://djangogirls.org/ogbomoso/
    Ogbomoso, Nigeria
    May 6-7, 2016
    Amount: $750 USD

  - PyCon Israel
    http://il.pycon.org/2016/
    Tel Aviv, Israel
    May 2-3, 2016
    Amount: $1500 USD

  - PyCon Sweden
    http://www.pycon.se/
    Stockholm, Sweden
    May 9-10, 2016
    Amount: $2700 USD

  - PyData London
    http://pydata.org/london2016/
    London, England
    May 6-8, 2016
    Amount: $1800 USD

  - Django Girls Dublin Workshop
    https://djangogirls.org/dublin/
    Dublin, Ireland
    April 23, 2016
    Amount: $750 USD

  - PyConZA 2016
    https://za.pycon.org/
    CapeTown, South Africa
    October 6-7, 2016
    Amount: $1800 USD

  - Evans High School Robotics Club
    Evans, Georgia, USA
    Spring, 2016
    Amount: $1500 USD

  - CodeBoola Hackathon, Yale
    http://codeboola.yhack.org/
    New Haven, Connecticut, USA
    April 9, 2016
    Amount: $500 USD

  - Springfield Public Library
    Summer Python Coding Camp
    Springfield, Oregon, USA
    June 27-30, 2016
    Amount: $750 USD

  - Django Girls Akure Workshop
    https://djangogirls.org/akure/
    Akure, Nigeria
    June 3-4, 2016
    Amount: $500 USD

For more updates from the PSF, please visit our blog and follow us on Twitter.

    https://twitter.com/ThePSF
    https://pyfound.blogspot.com/

Cheers,

--diana

From ewa at python.org  Wed May  4 10:30:43 2016
From: ewa at python.org (Ewa Jodlowska)
Date: Wed, 4 May 2016 09:30:43 -0500
Subject: [PSF-Community] Announcement: PSF Members Lunch at PyCon US
Message-ID: <CADx+GQNQrP0BLeMo1WeKNWAAsH551WscPVdyfRRSGMCBU3+EuQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear PSF members,

We will host a PSF Members Lunch at PyCon US Portland, OR for those that
are registered for the conference. If you are a new or long-time PSF
member, it would be great to meet you in person.

   - Day/time: Tuesday May 31, 2016, 12:40pm local time
   - Location: Oregon Convention Center, Room F150-F151
   - Menu: Roasted Prawns Lunch
      - garlic potato puree, local vegetable succotash, basil cream,
      seasonal vegetables, farmer's field green salad.
      - Special dietary meals will be provided for those that request one
      in the RSVP below.
   - *RSVP by May 13, 2016: http://goo.gl/forms/39XoP9ywhr
   <http://goo.gl/forms/39XoP9ywhr>*
   - Agenda:
      - announcing the new board for the 2016/17 term
      - mingling with members

We only have space for 100 so please RSVP soon.

Best regards,

Ewa
Director of Operations
Python Software Foundation
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From don at sheu.com  Wed May  4 16:12:05 2016
From: don at sheu.com (Don Sheu)
Date: Wed, 04 May 2016 20:12:05 +0000
Subject: [PSF-Community] Reporting Code of Conduct violations
In-Reply-To: <570FA66B.4090802@python.org>
References: <CAFpnBusw4T20bCLsVnGv7qL7_4YrbzovYwgQDSHB7N+=n+QF0A@mail.gmail.com>
 <570F6F24.8010100@python.org>
 <CADx+GQOjT_QvsYeJek5MwKRaCm_Pyb8e1umoOQNGj23RXoHD4g@mail.gmail.com>
 <570FA66B.4090802@python.org>
Message-ID: <CAM-7wPLd6qGsiM1OaQ2dznwx5PbKkzRbfEzRyxR-OyjM5ohT4w@mail.gmail.com>

I'm in the process of instituting guidelines for handling Code of Conduct
reports with my group in Seattle, PuPPy. First step is recruiting a diverse
committee. Unfortunately, currently our organizing team is overwhelmingly
male. Last thing I want is for a Code of Conduct procedure where a member
who's not white or male is facing a process run entirely by white males.

On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 7:18 AM M.-A. Lemburg <mal at python.org> wrote:

> On 14.04.2016 16:14, Ewa Jodlowska wrote:
> > FYI - I have added the PSF email address to the Code of Conduct page.
>
> Thanks, Ewa.
>
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Ewa
> > Director of Operations
> > Python Software Foundation
> > Cell: 415-319-5237
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 5:21 AM, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at python.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Ola,
> >>
> >> On 14.04.2016 12:14, Ola Sitarska wrote:
> >>> Hi there,
> >>>
> >>> I'm looking for information on how does one report Code of Conduct
> issues
> >>> to the PSF. Unfortunately, neither Code of Conduct page
> >>> <https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/> nor any other page on
> >> python.org
> >>> contains that information.
> >>
> >> Good point. We should add some more information to that page.
> >>
> >>> I asked on Twitter
> >>> <https://twitter.com/olasitarska/status/719819444462166016>, but
> haven't
> >>> received a reply.
> >>>
> >>> I also failed to find a way to contact the PSF Board, PSF Officers or
> the
> >>> Foundation, hence the email here.
> >>
> >> You can contact the PSF Board at psf-board at python.org
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> --
> >> Marc-Andre Lemburg
> >> Director
> >> Python Software Foundation
> >> http://www.python.org/psf/
> >> http://www.malemburg.com/
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> PSF-Community mailing list
> >> PSF-Community at python.org
> >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
> >>
> >
>
> --
> Marc-Andre Lemburg
> Director
> Python Software Foundation
> http://www.python.org/psf/
> http://www.malemburg.com/
> _______________________________________________
> PSF-Community mailing list
> PSF-Community at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>
-- 


- - - - - - - -
Don Sheu

312.880.9389
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My Python user group in May meets at Redfin

*http* <http://www.meetup.com/PSPPython/>*://*
<http://www.meetup.com/PSPPython/>*www.meetup.com*
<http://www.meetup.com/PSPPython/>*/* <http://www.meetup.com/PSPPython/>
*PSPPython* <http://www.meetup.com/PSPPython/>*/*
<http://www.meetup.com/PSPPython/>

*CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE*: *The information contained in this message may be
protected trade secrets or protected by applicable intellectual property
laws of the United States and International agreements. If you believe that
it has been sent to you in error, do not read it. Please immediately reply
to the sender that you have received the message in error. Then delete it.
Thank you.*
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From ewa at python.org  Thu May  5 09:09:43 2016
From: ewa at python.org (Ewa Jodlowska)
Date: Thu, 5 May 2016 08:09:43 -0500
Subject: [PSF-Community] Announcement: Upcoming Board of Directors Election
 - May 20, 2016
Message-ID: <CADx+GQNBskngY=j02CHGn_MqjRAgToKHLCQWn46mnohK9RDFrQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello members,

This is an announcement to all basic members who wish to vote in the
upcoming election[1].

On May 20, 2016 AoE[2] we will launch a vote for the 2016/17 term.

If you are a voting member, you will receive a ballot. If you are not
a voting
member, but would like to become one, *please apply to be a contributing or*
*managing member (with voting privileges) by May 15, 2016 AoE.*

The application form is available here: http://goo.gl/forms/Kb45fTcVyg
<https://goo.gl/A0oKx9>.

If you do not know if you are a voting member, please email me off-list and
I will check.

Here is the election timeline:

   - Voter application cut-off date: May 15, 2016 AoE
   - Voting start date: May 20, 2016 AoE
   - Voting end date: May 30, 2016 AoE


[1]
https://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonSoftwareFoundation/BoardCandidates2016
[2] AoE (Anywhere on earth): http://www.timeanddate.com/time/zones/aoe


Best regards,

Ewa
Director of Operations
Python Software Foundation
Cell: 415-319-5237
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From cbc at unc.edu  Thu May  5 13:31:54 2016
From: cbc at unc.edu (Chris Calloway)
Date: Thu, 5 May 2016 13:31:54 -0400
Subject: [PSF-Community] Reporting Code of Conduct violations
In-Reply-To: <CAM-7wPLd6qGsiM1OaQ2dznwx5PbKkzRbfEzRyxR-OyjM5ohT4w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFpnBusw4T20bCLsVnGv7qL7_4YrbzovYwgQDSHB7N+=n+QF0A@mail.gmail.com>
 <570F6F24.8010100@python.org>
 <CADx+GQOjT_QvsYeJek5MwKRaCm_Pyb8e1umoOQNGj23RXoHD4g@mail.gmail.com>
 <570FA66B.4090802@python.org>
 <CAM-7wPLd6qGsiM1OaQ2dznwx5PbKkzRbfEzRyxR-OyjM5ohT4w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ba5c7fa4-52ef-55e9-82b2-460e7ee4d9ee@unc.edu>

On 5/4/16 4:12 PM, Don Sheu wrote:
> I'm in the process of instituting guidelines for handling Code of
> Conduct reports with my group in Seattle, PuPPy. First step is
> recruiting a diverse committee. Unfortunately, currently our organizing
> team is overwhelmingly male. Last thing I want is for a Code of Conduct
> procedure where a member who's not white or male is facing a process run
> entirely by white males.

Don,

The hardest part of diversity is attempting to diversify an already 
non-diverse group. I searched for a long time for how to do this. 
Finally, after watching the Code: Debugging the Gender Gap documentary, 
I got a clue, applied it, and it worked. The secret is pro-action. You 
must go out and specifically and specially invite people individually, 
and invite them not just to participate, but to lead. I did this for the 
PyData Carolinas conference coming up this fall and it worked so well 
that the majority of people on our board of organizers are female and 
twenty percent are non-white:

http://pydata.org/carolinas2016/about/organizers/

I went to PyLadies and other groups and asked for their help. They 
responded with several highly qualified Python data scientists. I didn't 
just ask for volunteers. I approached them each individually, told them 
each why their qualifications are needed, and invited them to come take 
the reigns of various conference committees. You can get diversity. You 
just have to work at it and not wait for it to come to you. You must 
reach out and reach out specifically to individuals, recruiting each 
with an offer of leadership.

-- 
Sincerely,

Chris Calloway, Applications Analyst
UNC Renaissance Computing Institute
100 Europa Drive, Suite 540, Chapel Hill, NC 27517
(919) 599-3530

From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu May  5 13:35:54 2016
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 5 May 2016 18:35:54 +0100
Subject: [PSF-Community] Reporting Code of Conduct violations
In-Reply-To: <ba5c7fa4-52ef-55e9-82b2-460e7ee4d9ee@unc.edu>
References: <CAFpnBusw4T20bCLsVnGv7qL7_4YrbzovYwgQDSHB7N+=n+QF0A@mail.gmail.com>
 <570F6F24.8010100@python.org>
 <CADx+GQOjT_QvsYeJek5MwKRaCm_Pyb8e1umoOQNGj23RXoHD4g@mail.gmail.com>
 <570FA66B.4090802@python.org>
 <CAM-7wPLd6qGsiM1OaQ2dznwx5PbKkzRbfEzRyxR-OyjM5ohT4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <ba5c7fa4-52ef-55e9-82b2-460e7ee4d9ee@unc.edu>
Message-ID: <CAMofdRD9uJzVpksi+OWFpUVjzdCgs5sUmF+XqjH2JOwU==WdUw@mail.gmail.com>

The thing that originally swung it for PyCon was grabbing a chunk of
sponsor money and allocating it specifically to increase women's attendance
at the conference. Word got out, and women started to realise their
attendance was actively sought. S

Steve Holden

On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 6:31 PM, Chris Calloway <cbc at unc.edu> wrote:

> On 5/4/16 4:12 PM, Don Sheu wrote:
>
>> I'm in the process of instituting guidelines for handling Code of
>> Conduct reports with my group in Seattle, PuPPy. First step is
>> recruiting a diverse committee. Unfortunately, currently our organizing
>> team is overwhelmingly male. Last thing I want is for a Code of Conduct
>> procedure where a member who's not white or male is facing a process run
>> entirely by white males.
>>
>
> Don,
>
> The hardest part of diversity is attempting to diversify an already
> non-diverse group. I searched for a long time for how to do this. Finally,
> after watching the Code: Debugging the Gender Gap documentary, I got a
> clue, applied it, and it worked. The secret is pro-action. You must go out
> and specifically and specially invite people individually, and invite them
> not just to participate, but to lead. I did this for the PyData Carolinas
> conference coming up this fall and it worked so well that the majority of
> people on our board of organizers are female and twenty percent are
> non-white:
>
> http://pydata.org/carolinas2016/about/organizers/
>
> I went to PyLadies and other groups and asked for their help. They
> responded with several highly qualified Python data scientists. I didn't
> just ask for volunteers. I approached them each individually, told them
> each why their qualifications are needed, and invited them to come take the
> reigns of various conference committees. You can get diversity. You just
> have to work at it and not wait for it to come to you. You must reach out
> and reach out specifically to individuals, recruiting each with an offer of
> leadership.
>
> --
> Sincerely,
>
> Chris Calloway, Applications Analyst
> UNC Renaissance Computing Institute
> 100 Europa Drive, Suite 540, Chapel Hill, NC 27517
> (919) 599-3530
>
> _______________________________________________
> PSF-Community mailing list
> PSF-Community at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>
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From cbc at unc.edu  Thu May  5 13:46:54 2016
From: cbc at unc.edu (Chris Calloway)
Date: Thu, 5 May 2016 13:46:54 -0400
Subject: [PSF-Community] Reporting Code of Conduct violations
In-Reply-To: <CAMofdRD9uJzVpksi+OWFpUVjzdCgs5sUmF+XqjH2JOwU==WdUw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFpnBusw4T20bCLsVnGv7qL7_4YrbzovYwgQDSHB7N+=n+QF0A@mail.gmail.com>
 <570F6F24.8010100@python.org>
 <CADx+GQOjT_QvsYeJek5MwKRaCm_Pyb8e1umoOQNGj23RXoHD4g@mail.gmail.com>
 <570FA66B.4090802@python.org>
 <CAM-7wPLd6qGsiM1OaQ2dznwx5PbKkzRbfEzRyxR-OyjM5ohT4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <ba5c7fa4-52ef-55e9-82b2-460e7ee4d9ee@unc.edu>
 <CAMofdRD9uJzVpksi+OWFpUVjzdCgs5sUmF+XqjH2JOwU==WdUw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f3f5b55d-4693-002d-4c0e-5ee954f41fb1@unc.edu>

On 5/5/16 1:35 PM, Steve Holden wrote:
> The thing that originally swung it for PyCon was grabbing a chunk of
> sponsor money and allocating it specifically to increase women's
> attendance at the conference. Word got out, and women started to realise
> their attendance was actively sought. S

Absolutely, that's another great example of pro-action. PyData is doing 
that, too. Every sponsorship includes a number of diversity 
scholarships. A diversity committee accepts scholarship applications and 
makes the awards. A stated major aim of the conference is to increase 
the diversity of the Python data science community.

-- 
Sincerely,

Chris Calloway, Applications Analyst
UNC Renaissance Computing Institute
100 Europa Drive, Suite 540, Chapel Hill, NC 27517
(919) 599-3530

From don at sheu.com  Thu May  5 13:49:42 2016
From: don at sheu.com (Don Sheu)
Date: Thu, 05 May 2016 17:49:42 +0000
Subject: [PSF-Community] Reporting Code of Conduct violations
In-Reply-To: <ba5c7fa4-52ef-55e9-82b2-460e7ee4d9ee@unc.edu>
References: <CAFpnBusw4T20bCLsVnGv7qL7_4YrbzovYwgQDSHB7N+=n+QF0A@mail.gmail.com>
 <570F6F24.8010100@python.org>
 <CADx+GQOjT_QvsYeJek5MwKRaCm_Pyb8e1umoOQNGj23RXoHD4g@mail.gmail.com>
 <570FA66B.4090802@python.org>
 <CAM-7wPLd6qGsiM1OaQ2dznwx5PbKkzRbfEzRyxR-OyjM5ohT4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <ba5c7fa4-52ef-55e9-82b2-460e7ee4d9ee@unc.edu>
Message-ID: <CAM-7wP+EU+ks4ayiwP=qjDzKrkZX-TzEX586AGaLCGCyvAHWEw@mail.gmail.com>

Good stuff Chris, really great work you're doing in NC. Great to hear the
truth about a state besides the headlines driven by self-aggrandizing
politicians. Would love to connect on a phone call at some time to get your
thoughts on how PuPPy can improve.

Our normal turnout is about 25% women out of an attendance that ranges from
150-200. PuPPY's first ever meeting was a mini-conference on women in tech.
Lynn Root fortuitously was visiting Seattle at the same time. She
graciously launched our group as a speaker and as a panelist on a
discussion on improving gender diversity in tech professions.

The woman turnout for our first meeting was about 40% women.

Recently in February, Jessica McKellar joined us with Dropbox's support as
a speaker and a panelist that included Bridget Frey the CTO of Redfin. That
event drew 52% women attendees. Unfortunately space was limited because
Dropbox just opened in Seattle this past May. We had over 120 on our
waitlist.

Our first year speakers was 44% women. Currently in 2016 we're running
about 80% women speakers.

Seattle PyLadies has really done a great job under new leadership of Wendy
Grus and Erin Shellman. However on a personal connection, I'm far
friendlier with Michelle Glauser the organizer of PyLadies SF. She was part
of Zana when they participated in Startup Row that I run with Yannick
Gingras for PyCon.

I really want to do better. My mother is illiterate. I think of how that's
limited her opportunities in life, and also the pain that causes for my
family. I want to spare others the pain. For the world today I think
literacy includes understanding computing and tech. That software resembles
living in Saudi Arabia is an embarrassment for any modern society.

On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 10:32 AM Chris Calloway <cbc at unc.edu> wrote:

> On 5/4/16 4:12 PM, Don Sheu wrote:
> > I'm in the process of instituting guidelines for handling Code of
> > Conduct reports with my group in Seattle, PuPPy. First step is
> > recruiting a diverse committee. Unfortunately, currently our organizing
> > team is overwhelmingly male. Last thing I want is for a Code of Conduct
> > procedure where a member who's not white or male is facing a process run
> > entirely by white males.
>
> Don,
>
> The hardest part of diversity is attempting to diversify an already
> non-diverse group. I searched for a long time for how to do this.
> Finally, after watching the Code: Debugging the Gender Gap documentary,
> I got a clue, applied it, and it worked. The secret is pro-action. You
> must go out and specifically and specially invite people individually,
> and invite them not just to participate, but to lead. I did this for the
> PyData Carolinas conference coming up this fall and it worked so well
> that the majority of people on our board of organizers are female and
> twenty percent are non-white:
>
> http://pydata.org/carolinas2016/about/organizers/
>
> I went to PyLadies and other groups and asked for their help. They
> responded with several highly qualified Python data scientists. I didn't
> just ask for volunteers. I approached them each individually, told them
> each why their qualifications are needed, and invited them to come take
> the reigns of various conference committees. You can get diversity. You
> just have to work at it and not wait for it to come to you. You must
> reach out and reach out specifically to individuals, recruiting each
> with an offer of leadership.
>
> --
> Sincerely,
>
> Chris Calloway, Applications Analyst
> UNC Renaissance Computing Institute
> 100 Europa Drive, Suite 540, Chapel Hill, NC 27517
> (919) 599-3530
> _______________________________________________
> PSF-Community mailing list
> PSF-Community at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>
-- 


- - - - - - - -
Don Sheu

312.880.9389
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My Python user group in May meets at Redfin

*http* <http://www.meetup.com/PSPPython/>*://*
<http://www.meetup.com/PSPPython/>*www.meetup.com*
<http://www.meetup.com/PSPPython/>*/* <http://www.meetup.com/PSPPython/>
*PSPPython* <http://www.meetup.com/PSPPython/>*/*
<http://www.meetup.com/PSPPython/>

*CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE*: *The information contained in this message may be
protected trade secrets or protected by applicable intellectual property
laws of the United States and International agreements. If you believe that
it has been sent to you in error, do not read it. Please immediately reply
to the sender that you have received the message in error. Then delete it.
Thank you.*
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From willingc at willingconsulting.com  Thu May  5 13:51:55 2016
From: willingc at willingconsulting.com (Carol Willing)
Date: Thu, 05 May 2016 10:51:55 -0700
Subject: [PSF-Community] Reporting Code of Conduct violations
In-Reply-To: <ba5c7fa4-52ef-55e9-82b2-460e7ee4d9ee@unc.edu>
References: <CAFpnBusw4T20bCLsVnGv7qL7_4YrbzovYwgQDSHB7N+=n+QF0A@mail.gmail.com>
 <570F6F24.8010100@python.org>
 <CADx+GQOjT_QvsYeJek5MwKRaCm_Pyb8e1umoOQNGj23RXoHD4g@mail.gmail.com>
 <570FA66B.4090802@python.org>
 <CAM-7wPLd6qGsiM1OaQ2dznwx5PbKkzRbfEzRyxR-OyjM5ohT4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <ba5c7fa4-52ef-55e9-82b2-460e7ee4d9ee@unc.edu>
Message-ID: <11ABC6F8-7510-4247-B71C-59F42333C3AE@willingconsulting.com>

On 5 May 2016, at 10:31, Chris Calloway wrote:

> On 5/4/16 4:12 PM, Don Sheu wrote:
>> I'm in the process of instituting guidelines for handling Code of
>> Conduct reports with my group in Seattle, PuPPy. First step is
>> recruiting a diverse committee. Unfortunately, currently our 
>> organizing
>> team is overwhelmingly male. Last thing I want is for a Code of 
>> Conduct
>> procedure where a member who's not white or male is facing a process 
>> run
>> entirely by white males.
>
> Don,
>
> The hardest part of diversity is attempting to diversify an already 
> non-diverse group. I searched for a long time for how to do this. 
> Finally, after watching the Code: Debugging the Gender Gap 
> documentary, I got a clue, applied it, and it worked. The secret is 
> pro-action. You must go out and specifically and specially invite 
> people individually, and invite them not just to participate, but to 
> lead. I did this for the PyData Carolinas conference coming up this 
> fall and it worked so well that the majority of people on our board of 
> organizers are female and twenty percent are non-white:
>
> http://pydata.org/carolinas2016/about/organizers/
>
> I went to PyLadies and other groups and asked for their help. They 
> responded with several highly qualified Python data scientists. I 
> didn't just ask for volunteers. I approached them each individually, 
> told them each why their qualifications are needed, and invited them 
> to come take the reigns of various conference committees. You can get 
> diversity. You just have to work at it and not wait for it to come to 
> you. You must reach out and reach out specifically to individuals, 
> recruiting each with an offer of leadership.
>
> -- 
> Sincerely,
>
> Chris Calloway, Applications Analyst
> UNC Renaissance Computing Institute
> 100 Europa Drive, Suite 540, Chapel Hill, NC 27517
> (919) 599-3530
> _______________________________________________
> PSF-Community mailing list
> PSF-Community at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community

Chris,

Thank you for sharing what worked for you and PyData Carolinas. Your 
thoughtfulness, genuine interest, and action are a good model of what 
does work.

Your experience would make a helpful blog post, lightning talk at PyCon, 
SciPy, or a regional conference. Take care and thank you!

Warmly,

Carol

Carol Willing
Research Software Engineer, Project Jupyter @ Cal Poly
Director, Python Software Foundation

From ewa at python.org  Wed May 11 11:43:52 2016
From: ewa at python.org (Ewa Jodlowska)
Date: Wed, 11 May 2016 10:43:52 -0500
Subject: [PSF-Community] REMINDER: PSF Board of Directors Election -
 Nomination Deadline
Message-ID: <CADx+GQNQiGrbL8FyBDZjonaW1s-waD6i9RVib-cUrYeirBFYAQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear members,

If any member is interested in running for the 2016/17 PSF board of
directors term, please be sure to add your summary to
https://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonSoftwareFoundation/BoardCandidates2016
*before
the May 15, 2016 AoE[1] deadline*. After that deadline, we will close the
nomination page and begin creating the ballots.

Here is the election timeline:

   - Voter application & nomination cut-off date: May 15, 2016 AoE[1]
   - Voting start date: May 20, 2016 AoE[1]
   - Voting end date: May 30, 2016 AoE[1]

[1] AoE (Anywhere on earth): http://www.timeanddate.com/time/zones/aoe

Best regards,

Ewa
Director of Operations
Python Software Foundation
Cell: 415-319-5237
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From bnafta at gmail.com  Tue May 17 17:38:28 2016
From: bnafta at gmail.com (Fabio C. Barrionuevo da Luz)
Date: Tue, 17 May 2016 18:38:28 -0300
Subject: [PSF-Community] PythonBrochure project status
Message-ID: <CAPVjvMb-1XLuVPY+oOKghOW8dA+v4JUazG4bnXpxt+2puR=UmQ@mail.gmail.com>

hello, I have some questions:

1 - the distribution of  Python Brochure ( http://brochure.getpython.info/
) continues this year?

I would like to distribute some units in october at PyCon Brazil, aka
"Python Brasil 2016" ( http://2016.pythonbrasil.org.br/ )

2 - any plan to create a new edition of Python Brochure?

3 - any plan to start a translation project and/or regionalization ( since
some places have a few big players who use Python in Brazil, like,
Globo.com, Federal government, Interlegis ...)

4 - How to contribute to new use cases?

Thanks.


-- 
F?bio C. Barrionuevo da Luz
Palmas - Tocantins - Brasil - Am?rica do Sul

http://pythonclub.com.br/

Blog colaborativo sobre Python e tecnologias Relacionadas, mantido
totalmente no https://github.com/pythonclub/pythonclub.github.io .

Todos s?o livres para publicar. ? s? fazer fork, escrever sua postagem e
mandar o pull-request. Leia mais sobre como publicar em README.md e
contributing.md.
Regra b?sica de postagem:
"Voc?" acha interessante? ? ?til para "voc?"? Pode ser utilizado com Python
ou ? ?til para quem usa Python? Est? esperando o que? Publica logo, que
estou louco para ler...
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From diana.joan.clarke at gmail.com  Thu May 19 19:43:38 2016
From: diana.joan.clarke at gmail.com (Diana Clarke)
Date: Thu, 19 May 2016 19:43:38 -0400
Subject: [PSF-Community] PSF Board Meeting Minutes - 2016-04-12
Message-ID: <CAEZAPrATuzTLKRbh6pKoB=1RVC3VGKgC_SorAQw5fsWBHFSphQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi folks:

The PSF board meeting minutes from April 12th, 2016 are now available online:

    https://www.python.org/psf/records/board/minutes/2016-04-12/

There are also a few new posts on the PSF blog since my last email to
you all. Thanks Mary Ann & Jesse!

    https://pyfound.blogspot.com/2016/05/brett-cannon-wins-frank-willison-award.html
    https://pyfound.blogspot.com/2016/05/cubaconf-day-1.html
    https://pyfound.blogspot.com/2016/05/python-and-open-source-alive-and-well.html

And today at OSCON, Brett Cannon was awarded this year's Frank
Willison Memorial Award for more than a decade of CPython
contributions as a core developer. He's also one of the kindest people
I know :) Thanks Brett!

    https://www.python.org/community/awards/frank-willison/#brett-cannon-2016
    https://twitter.com/oscon/status/733300837842194437

The PSF provides grants for development, conferences, workshops, and
user groups.

    https://www.python.org/psf/grants/

The following grants were approved since my last report to you,
totalling $5,460 USD.

  - WatPy, Waterloo Region Python Group
    http://www.meetup.com/WatPyMeetup/
    Meetup.com fees
    Amount: $90 USD

  - Champaign-Urbana Python User?s Group
    http://www.meetup.com/Python-CU/
    Meetup.com fees
    Amount: $120 USD

  - Django Girls Bilbao
    https://djangogirls.org/europython2016/
    Bilbao, Spain
    July 17, 2016
    Amount: $750 USD

  - PyCon Cameroon Workshops
    http://pyconcameroon.org/
    Amount: $2000 USD

  - Kiwi PyCon 2016
    https://nzpug.org/
    Dunedin, New Zealand
    Sept 9-13, 2016
    Amount: $2500 USD

For more updates from the PSF, please visit our blog and follow us on Twitter.

    https://twitter.com/ThePSF
    https://pyfound.blogspot.com/

Cheers,

--diana

From mertz at gnosis.cx  Thu May 19 20:30:02 2016
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz)
Date: Thu, 19 May 2016 17:30:02 -0700
Subject: [PSF-Community] Election Chatter
Message-ID: <CAEbHw4Y34pXJOLGSO8131JYfRXbkQDQYkCbkyEU4kMFDF_0YsQ@mail.gmail.com>

I know there is always too much of discussion when elections are open (if
only because I was myself the Election Administrator for a number of
years); however, I'd like to share some praise, but also ask a simple
question.

I received my ballot, and voted it.  We have an amazing slate of candidates
for the board, and I will be enthusiastic if any of those whom I DID NOT
vote for happen to win.  Folks can vote as they feel is best, but I would
personally recommend that you NOT vote specifically for exactly 11
candidates.

Rather, what kinda works best with Approval Voting is to look at each
individual candidate statement, and set a threshold of enthusiasm for that
person, voting for each independently accordingly.  If you happen to cast
17 Yeses, there is no harm in that (other voters will vote differently, and
there will be some total votes for each person); likewise if you happen to
only vote 3 Yeses.

However, that's not my comment or question.  Rather, I thought about the
order of the ballot.  And I happen to live with another PSF Voting Member,
so asked her about her order (although not about her votes).  To my
pleasure, she receive a ballot listing candidates in a different order than
mine.  I think that is GREAT, and commend the Election Administrator on
this.  Varying order reduces unconscious bias (i.e. voters are likely to
vote for the first few they like, then tire of the choices "down ballot"
... it's human).

I am curious though, about exactly how this was done.  That is, was the
software enhanced to randomize order for each individual voter? Or was it
more like what I did in some past years, and there are simply 3-4 batches
of ballots (but each order sent to 100 voters or whatever), each one with a
different ordering? Either way is good, but of course the first is better
if the software happens to support it now.

Best wishes, David...

-- 
Keeping medicines from the bloodstreams of the sick; food
from the bellies of the hungry; books from the hands of the
uneducated; technology from the underdeveloped; and putting
advocates of freedom in prisons.  Intellectual property is
to the 21st century what the slave trade was to the 16th.
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From mal at python.org  Sun May 22 08:30:57 2016
From: mal at python.org (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Sun, 22 May 2016 14:30:57 +0200
Subject: [PSF-Community] PyData EuroPython 2016
Message-ID: <5741A681.1090609@python.org>

We are excited to announce a complete PyData (http://pydata.org/)
track at EuroPython 2016 in Bilbao, Basque Country, Spain, from July
14-24.

		    *** PyData EuroPython 2016 ***

	    https://ep2016.europython.eu/en/events/pydata/


The PyData track will be part of the EuroPython 2016 conference, so
you won?t need to buy extra tickets to join.

We will have more than 30 talks, 5 training and 2 poster sessions
dedicated to PyData on Thursday 21st and Friday 22nd of July.

If you?d like to attend the PyData EuroPython 2016 track, please
register for EuroPython 2016 soon.

	    https://ep2016.europython.eu/en/registration/

With gravitational regards,
--
EuroPython 2016 Team
http://ep2016.europython.eu/
http://www.europython-society.org/


From mal at python.org  Wed May 25 09:42:01 2016
From: mal at python.org (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 15:42:01 +0200
Subject: [PSF-Community] Sponsor Members - Bylaws Revision
Message-ID: <5745ABA9.8060906@python.org>

Dear PSF Members,

the board has just approved an amendment of the PSF bylaws to
remove the sponsor membership category. From now on, we will
just have sponsors and no longer need to vote them in, hopefully
making it much easier to sign up new sponsors. The next step is
creating a sponsors WG to take over sponsor management.

Here's the official resolution:

- RESOLVED, that the Python Software Foundation amend the PSF bylaws to
   remove the Sponsor Membership category. All changes made by the
   Bylaws WG are listed here:

https://bitbucket.org/malemburg/psf-bylaws/diff/bylaws.md?diff1=ba846896778b&diff2=fa6ce90a3f1376b2708bf76d87c70813f96e010a&at=default.
   Approved 11-0-0 via email vote 25 May 2016

and these are the updated bylaws:

https://www.python.org/psf/bylaws/?20160525

(the parameter is just a trick to bypass the cache :-))

Cheers,
-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
Director
Python Software Foundation
http://www.python.org/psf/
http://www.malemburg.com/

From matt at mondoinfo.com  Wed May 25 10:27:29 2016
From: matt at mondoinfo.com (Matthew Dixon Cowles)
Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 09:27:29 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [PSF-Community] Sponsor Members - Bylaws Revision
In-Reply-To: <5745ABA9.8060906@python.org>
References: <5745ABA9.8060906@python.org>
Message-ID: <1464186368.49.34337@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>

Marc-Andre,

> the board has just approved an amendment of the PSF bylaws to
> remove the sponsor membership category.

That seems like a big enough change to me that I'm surprised that he
membership wasn't consulted. Can you tell me the thinking behind that?

Regards,
Matt


From mal at python.org  Wed May 25 10:37:32 2016
From: mal at python.org (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 16:37:32 +0200
Subject: [PSF-Community] Sponsor Members - Bylaws Revision
In-Reply-To: <1464186368.49.34337@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>
References: <5745ABA9.8060906@python.org>
 <1464186368.49.34337@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>
Message-ID: <5745B8AC.8000109@python.org>

On 25.05.2016 16:27, Matthew Dixon Cowles wrote:
> Marc-Andre,
> 
>> the board has just approved an amendment of the PSF bylaws to
>> remove the sponsor membership category.
> 
> That seems like a big enough change to me that I'm surprised that he
> membership wasn't consulted. Can you tell me the thinking behind that?

We did consult the existing sponsor members before implementing
the change. None of them opposed the move.

As I mentioned in the email, the main purpose is to simplify
sponsor signup. Sponsors will no longer have to wait for the
next members vote to sign up, we don't have to run extra votes
every time we have a few signups and the decision to accept
sponsors is moved into a WG which is much easier to get involved
in as PSF member than having to run for board.

Overall, the PSF is moving more and more in the direction of
trying to engage our members in the operations of the PSF.
We're doing this by opening up WGs with targeted scope and
so far, it's working well:

https://wiki.python.org/psf/Contents#psf-working-groups

Cheers,
-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
Director
Python Software Foundation
http://www.python.org/psf/
http://www.malemburg.com/

From matt at mondoinfo.com  Wed May 25 11:20:38 2016
From: matt at mondoinfo.com (Matthew Dixon Cowles)
Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 10:20:38 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [PSF-Community] Sponsor Members - Bylaws Revision
In-Reply-To: <5745B8AC.8000109@python.org>
References: <5745ABA9.8060906@python.org>
 <1464186368.49.34337@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com> <5745B8AC.8000109@python.org>
Message-ID: <1464188900.15.34337@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>

Marc-Andre,

> We did consult the existing sponsor members

I'm sorry. perhaps I should have said: I'm surprised that the board
didn't consult the non-sponsor membership. Can you tell me the
thinking behind that?

> As I mentioned in the email, the main purpose is to simplify
> sponsor signup.

That doesn't answer my question. I didn't ask why the idea is a good
one. I asked why the membership wasn't consulted.

> Overall, the PSF is moving more and more in the direction of
> trying to engage our members in the operations of the PSF.
> We're doing this by opening up WGs

That also doesn't answer my question.

Regards,
Matt


From ewa at python.org  Wed May 25 11:23:58 2016
From: ewa at python.org (Ewa Jodlowska)
Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 10:23:58 -0500
Subject: [PSF-Community] Sponsor Members - Bylaws Revision
In-Reply-To: <1464188900.15.34337@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>
References: <5745ABA9.8060906@python.org>
 <1464186368.49.34337@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>
 <5745B8AC.8000109@python.org>
 <1464188900.15.34337@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>
Message-ID: <CADx+GQOoEFc3qmr7VnGJ8-stxyfoKiVfTA2KHWHC8QJJbAZwxw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Matt,

This conversation took place on psf-vote at python.org with the voting
members. I  do not know off the top of my head if you are a voting member,
but if you are, you should be able to access to archives here:
https://mail.python.org/mailman/private/psf-vote

Best regards,

Ewa
Director of Operations
Python Software Foundation
Cell: 415-319-5237

On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 10:20 AM, Matthew Dixon Cowles <matt at mondoinfo.com>
wrote:

> Marc-Andre,
>
> > We did consult the existing sponsor members
>
> I'm sorry. perhaps I should have said: I'm surprised that the board
> didn't consult the non-sponsor membership. Can you tell me the
> thinking behind that?
>
> > As I mentioned in the email, the main purpose is to simplify
> > sponsor signup.
>
> That doesn't answer my question. I didn't ask why the idea is a good
> one. I asked why the membership wasn't consulted.
>
> > Overall, the PSF is moving more and more in the direction of
> > trying to engage our members in the operations of the PSF.
> > We're doing this by opening up WGs
>
> That also doesn't answer my question.
>
> Regards,
> Matt
>
> _______________________________________________
> PSF-Community mailing list
> PSF-Community at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>
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From don at sheu.com  Wed May 25 11:44:40 2016
From: don at sheu.com (Don Sheu)
Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 08:44:40 -0700
Subject: [PSF-Community] Sponsor Members - Bylaws Revision
In-Reply-To: <CADx+GQOoEFc3qmr7VnGJ8-stxyfoKiVfTA2KHWHC8QJJbAZwxw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5745ABA9.8060906@python.org>
 <1464186368.49.34337@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>
 <5745B8AC.8000109@python.org>
 <1464188900.15.34337@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>
 <CADx+GQOoEFc3qmr7VnGJ8-stxyfoKiVfTA2KHWHC8QJJbAZwxw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAM-7wPJeQE6TrQ5MX-UfxcBoOiW5MB=0ifdMR8P8B_o9_BwoLg@mail.gmail.com>

>From my best memory, it was a Sponsor Member suggesting it was weird for
sponsors to vote. I could see a conflict of interest if there's a competing
sponsor up for approval and an incumbent would have a contrary financial
interest to vote against adding a sponsor.

This is strictly my opinion, but a board is constituted to manage bylaws of
the organization. If there's any concerns of how a board or a director of a
board is performing duties, the current election is the right time to
address these concerns.

Warmest wishes,

-- 
Don Sheu
312.880.9389
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

My Python user group in June meets at Google
http://www.meetup.com/PSPPython/events/231074707/
<http://www.meetup.com/PSPPython/events/230373146/>
?

On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 8:23 AM, Ewa Jodlowska <ewa at python.org> wrote:

> Hi Matt,
>
> This conversation took place on psf-vote at python.org with the voting
> members. I  do not know off the top of my head if you are a voting member,
> but if you are, you should be able to access to archives here:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/private/psf-vote
>
> Best regards,
>
> Ewa
> Director of Operations
> Python Software Foundation
> Cell: 415-319-5237
>
> On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 10:20 AM, Matthew Dixon Cowles <matt at mondoinfo.com
> > wrote:
>
>> Marc-Andre,
>>
>> > We did consult the existing sponsor members
>>
>> I'm sorry. perhaps I should have said: I'm surprised that the board
>> didn't consult the non-sponsor membership. Can you tell me the
>> thinking behind that?
>>
>> > As I mentioned in the email, the main purpose is to simplify
>> > sponsor signup.
>>
>> That doesn't answer my question. I didn't ask why the idea is a good
>> one. I asked why the membership wasn't consulted.
>>
>> > Overall, the PSF is moving more and more in the direction of
>> > trying to engage our members in the operations of the PSF.
>> > We're doing this by opening up WGs
>>
>> That also doesn't answer my question.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Matt
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> PSF-Community mailing list
>> PSF-Community at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> PSF-Community mailing list
> PSF-Community at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>
>


-- 
Don Sheu
312.880.9389
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

My Python user group in May meets at Redfin
http://www.meetup.com/PSPPython/events/230373146/


*CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE*: *The information contained in this message may be
protected trade secrets or protected by applicable intellectual property
laws of the United States and International agreements. If you believe that
it has been sent to you in error, do not read it. Please immediately reply
to the sender that you have received the message in error. Then delete it.
Thank you.*
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From matt at mondoinfo.com  Wed May 25 11:56:37 2016
From: matt at mondoinfo.com (Matthew Dixon Cowles)
Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 10:56:37 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [PSF-Community] Sponsor Members - Bylaws Revision
In-Reply-To: <CADx+GQOoEFc3qmr7VnGJ8-stxyfoKiVfTA2KHWHC8QJJbAZwxw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5745ABA9.8060906@python.org>
 <1464186368.49.34337@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com> <5745B8AC.8000109@python.org>
 <1464188900.15.34337@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>
 <CADx+GQOoEFc3qmr7VnGJ8-stxyfoKiVfTA2KHWHC8QJJbAZwxw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1464190418.05.38104@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>

Ewa,

> you should be able to access to archives here:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/private/psf-vote

I didn't remember that discussion and, grepping through the text
there, I find a small number of hypothetical suggestions buried in a
thread in which someone requested background information. That's not
really what I meant by consulting the membership.

Regards,
Matt


From don at sheu.com  Wed May 25 12:03:54 2016
From: don at sheu.com (Don Sheu)
Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 09:03:54 -0700
Subject: [PSF-Community] Sponsor Members - Bylaws Revision
In-Reply-To: <1464190418.05.38104@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>
References: <5745ABA9.8060906@python.org>
 <1464186368.49.34337@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>
 <5745B8AC.8000109@python.org>
 <1464188900.15.34337@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>
 <CADx+GQOoEFc3qmr7VnGJ8-stxyfoKiVfTA2KHWHC8QJJbAZwxw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1464190418.05.38104@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>
Message-ID: <CAM-7wPK2A2s1FfSOyvTf7msc+hKhak8qbR7RQSndL3GHgPtKqw@mail.gmail.com>

I remember Cat Allman raising the issue of sponsors voting.
?

On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 8:56 AM, Matthew Dixon Cowles <matt at mondoinfo.com>
wrote:

> Ewa,
>
> > you should be able to access to archives here:
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/private/psf-vote
>
> I didn't remember that discussion and, grepping through the text
> there, I find a small number of hypothetical suggestions buried in a
> thread in which someone requested background information. That's not
> really what I meant by consulting the membership.
>
> Regards,
> Matt
>
> _______________________________________________
> PSF-Community mailing list
> PSF-Community at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>



-- 
Don Sheu
312.880.9389
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

My Python user group in May meets at Redfin
http://www.meetup.com/PSPPython/events/230373146/


*CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE*: *The information contained in this message may be
protected trade secrets or protected by applicable intellectual property
laws of the United States and International agreements. If you believe that
it has been sent to you in error, do not read it. Please immediately reply
to the sender that you have received the message in error. Then delete it.
Thank you.*
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From ewa at python.org  Wed May 25 12:09:14 2016
From: ewa at python.org (Ewa Jodlowska)
Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 11:09:14 -0500
Subject: [PSF-Community] Sponsor Members - Bylaws Revision
In-Reply-To: <1464190418.05.38104@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>
References: <5745ABA9.8060906@python.org>
 <1464186368.49.34337@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>
 <5745B8AC.8000109@python.org>
 <1464188900.15.34337@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>
 <CADx+GQOoEFc3qmr7VnGJ8-stxyfoKiVfTA2KHWHC8QJJbAZwxw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1464190418.05.38104@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>
Message-ID: <CADx+GQPQXLeb0k+3n9gAswD+xbvz+qHAhCjLzNkLfpOq2V5FcA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Matt,

I had sent to the list the specific steps we would be taking:
https://mail.python.org/mailman/private/psf-vote/2016-April/000088.html

I am sorry that the conversation and movement forward did not stand out
well enough. I will work on making it more obvious in the future. That is
all we can do -  try to make it better next time :)

Best regards,

Ewa
Director of Operations
Python Software Foundation
Cell: 415-319-5237

On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 10:56 AM, Matthew Dixon Cowles <matt at mondoinfo.com>
wrote:

> Ewa,
>
> > you should be able to access to archives here:
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/private/psf-vote
>
> I didn't remember that discussion and, grepping through the text
> there, I find a small number of hypothetical suggestions buried in a
> thread in which someone requested background information. That's not
> really what I meant by consulting the membership.
>
> Regards,
> Matt
>
> _______________________________________________
> PSF-Community mailing list
> PSF-Community at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>
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From mal at python.org  Wed May 25 11:42:26 2016
From: mal at python.org (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 17:42:26 +0200
Subject: [PSF-Community] Sponsor Members - Bylaws Revision
In-Reply-To: <1464188900.15.34337@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>
References: <5745ABA9.8060906@python.org>
 <1464186368.49.34337@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com> <5745B8AC.8000109@python.org>
 <1464188900.15.34337@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>
Message-ID: <5745C7E2.3070306@python.org>

On 25.05.2016 17:20, Matthew Dixon Cowles wrote:
> Marc-Andre,
> 
>> We did consult the existing sponsor members
> 
> I'm sorry. perhaps I should have said: I'm surprised that the board
> didn't consult the non-sponsor membership. Can you tell me the
> thinking behind that?

As Ewa mentioned: We did have a discussion on the psf-vote list,
where all voting members are subscribed, prior to implementing
the change.

Does that answer your question ?

If not, perhaps you could explain what you believe should have
been done and wasn't.

Changes to bylaws are usually implemented by the board. They can
also be put up to vote with the voting members and for larger changes,
the board will generally take that approach.

In this particular case, this wasn't deemed necessary, as the
change only affects the existing sponsor members and there was no
opposition on the psf-vote list, nor from the sponsor members
themselves.

Cheers,
-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
Director
Python Software Foundation
http://www.python.org/psf/
http://www.malemburg.com/

From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed May 25 12:35:12 2016
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 17:35:12 +0100
Subject: [PSF-Community] Sponsor Members - Bylaws Revision
In-Reply-To: <5745C7E2.3070306@python.org>
References: <5745ABA9.8060906@python.org>
 <1464186368.49.34337@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>
 <5745B8AC.8000109@python.org>
 <1464188900.15.34337@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>
 <5745C7E2.3070306@python.org>
Message-ID: <CAMofdRAVcukX5Y1gVSz+JdG_e1UERiutbhnR82hA67NpdMEHAg@mail.gmail.com>

I would remind Matthew that the long experience of many boards was that the
membership generally didn't want to be bothered with the details of what
was done on their behalf. Not having been involved for a while I can't
guarantee things haven't changed, but I'd be surprised if they had, making
Matthew an honourable exception to the rule ;-)  S

Steve Holden

On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 4:42 PM, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at python.org> wrote:

> On 25.05.2016 17:20, Matthew Dixon Cowles wrote:
> > Marc-Andre,
> >
> >> We did consult the existing sponsor members
> >
> > I'm sorry. perhaps I should have said: I'm surprised that the board
> > didn't consult the non-sponsor membership. Can you tell me the
> > thinking behind that?
>
> As Ewa mentioned: We did have a discussion on the psf-vote list,
> where all voting members are subscribed, prior to implementing
> the change.
>
> Does that answer your question ?
>
> If not, perhaps you could explain what you believe should have
> been done and wasn't.
>
> Changes to bylaws are usually implemented by the board. They can
> also be put up to vote with the voting members and for larger changes,
> the board will generally take that approach.
>
> In this particular case, this wasn't deemed necessary, as the
> change only affects the existing sponsor members and there was no
> opposition on the psf-vote list, nor from the sponsor members
> themselves.
>
> Cheers,
> --
> Marc-Andre Lemburg
> Director
> Python Software Foundation
> http://www.python.org/psf/
> http://www.malemburg.com/
> _______________________________________________
> PSF-Community mailing list
> PSF-Community at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>
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From matt at mondoinfo.com  Wed May 25 15:36:48 2016
From: matt at mondoinfo.com (Matthew Dixon Cowles)
Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 14:36:48 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [PSF-Community] Sponsor Members - Bylaws Revision
In-Reply-To: <5745C7E2.3070306@python.org>
References: <5745ABA9.8060906@python.org>
 <1464186368.49.34337@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com> <5745B8AC.8000109@python.org>
 <1464188900.15.34337@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com> <5745C7E2.3070306@python.org>
Message-ID: <1464193931.5.38411@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>

Marc-Andre,

> Changes to bylaws are usually implemented by the board. They can
> also be put up to vote with the voting members and for larger
> changes, the board will generally take that approach.

> In this particular case, this wasn't deemed necessary,

Thank you, that is an answer to my question.


I disagree. In my opinion the matter is important enough that it
should have been, and still should be, decided by the members.

The reason I think that is that the approval of the PSF's sources of
funding is an important kind of oversight. If the membership is to
give up that oversight, I think it should do so voluntarily and
unambiguously, not because of a decision the board makes by itself.

Regards,
Matt


From matt at mondoinfo.com  Wed May 25 15:39:56 2016
From: matt at mondoinfo.com (Matthew Dixon Cowles)
Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 14:39:56 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [PSF-Community] Sponsor Members - Bylaws Revision
In-Reply-To: <CADx+GQPQXLeb0k+3n9gAswD+xbvz+qHAhCjLzNkLfpOq2V5FcA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5745ABA9.8060906@python.org>
 <1464186368.49.34337@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com> <5745B8AC.8000109@python.org>
 <1464188900.15.34337@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>
 <CADx+GQOoEFc3qmr7VnGJ8-stxyfoKiVfTA2KHWHC8QJJbAZwxw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1464190418.05.38104@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>
 <CADx+GQPQXLeb0k+3n9gAswD+xbvz+qHAhCjLzNkLfpOq2V5FcA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1464194504.2.38411@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>

Ewa,

> I will work on making it more obvious in the future. That is all we
> can do

I'm sorry but it's not completely clear to me what you mean by "all
we can do". Taken literally, that seems to mean that board
resolutions can't be changed. But that doesn't seem likely to be the
case. Do you mean, all that you are personally willing to do? All
that the board is willing to do? Something else?

Regards,
Matt


From matt at mondoinfo.com  Wed May 25 15:50:08 2016
From: matt at mondoinfo.com (Matthew Dixon Cowles)
Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 14:50:08 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [PSF-Community] Sponsor Members - Bylaws Revision
In-Reply-To: <CAMofdRAVcukX5Y1gVSz+JdG_e1UERiutbhnR82hA67NpdMEHAg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5745ABA9.8060906@python.org>
 <1464186368.49.34337@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com> <5745B8AC.8000109@python.org>
 <1464188900.15.34337@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com> <5745C7E2.3070306@python.org>
 <CAMofdRAVcukX5Y1gVSz+JdG_e1UERiutbhnR82hA67NpdMEHAg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1464205206.9.38817@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>

Steve,

> I would remind Matthew that the long experience of many boards was
> that the membership generally didn't want to be bothered with the
> details of what was done on their behalf.

I would be sad to think that. I'm mostly silent because I generally
think that the board does a splendid job. Today I had a question so I
spoke up. If other people wouldn't do the same, I wonder why they
would bother to be members.

Regards,
Matt


From mal at python.org  Wed May 25 16:15:04 2016
From: mal at python.org (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 22:15:04 +0200
Subject: [PSF-Community] Sponsor Members - Bylaws Revision
In-Reply-To: <1464193931.5.38411@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>
References: <5745ABA9.8060906@python.org>
 <1464186368.49.34337@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com> <5745B8AC.8000109@python.org>
 <1464188900.15.34337@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com> <5745C7E2.3070306@python.org>
 <1464193931.5.38411@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>
Message-ID: <574607C8.2040804@python.org>

On 25.05.2016 21:36, Matthew Dixon Cowles wrote:
> Marc-Andre,
> 
>> Changes to bylaws are usually implemented by the board. They can
>> also be put up to vote with the voting members and for larger
>> changes, the board will generally take that approach.
> 
>> In this particular case, this wasn't deemed necessary,
> 
> Thank you, that is an answer to my question.
> 
> I disagree. In my opinion the matter is important enough that it
> should have been, and still should be, decided by the members.
> 
> The reason I think that is that the approval of the PSF's sources of
> funding is an important kind of oversight. If the membership is to
> give up that oversight, I think it should do so voluntarily and
> unambiguously, not because of a decision the board makes by itself.

Thank you for explaining your concern in more detail. This makes
it easier to understand why you think we should have put this
up for a members vote.

Please note that most of the PSF's funding is generated not
through direct PSF sponsors, but instead through profit generated
via running the PyCon US conference. Those sources of funding have
(so far) never been subject to membership approval, not even
board approval. The PyCon US chair is responsible for those
selections.

If you have concerns about which sources of funding the
PSF uses, please sign up for the sponsors WG to help with the
decision process and policies.

If you believe we should do a members vote on this, you
can raise this on the psf-vote list. If there's enough demand,
I doubt that the coming board will reject the wish to
run a members vote on the topic.

All that said, oversight over the funding of the PSF is
one of the main responsibilities of the board and even if the
sponsor selection is delegated to a WG, the board remains
ultimately responsible for any decisions in this direction.

Some background:

The main reason members had to vote on sponsors under the
version 1 bylaws was that sponsors gained voting rights. Otherwise,
the board would have been able to take on this decision process
by itself and relief the members from this duty (the board has
in most cases done pre-screening of the candidates all along).

Under the version 2 bylaws, anyone can self certify
as voting member, so while sponsors now no longer have
voting rights, they can still have employees, engaging in
Python community work, gain voting rights. In the end,
removing the sponsor membership class is not really a
practical loss.

Cheers,
-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
Director
Python Software Foundation
http://www.python.org/psf/
http://www.malemburg.com/

From sdeibel at wingware.com  Wed May 25 16:22:19 2016
From: sdeibel at wingware.com (Stephan Deibel)
Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 16:22:19 -0400
Subject: [PSF-Community] Sponsor Members - Bylaws Revision
In-Reply-To: <1464194504.2.38411@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>
References: <5745ABA9.8060906@python.org>
 <1464186368.49.34337@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com> <5745B8AC.8000109@python.org>
 <1464188900.15.34337@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>
 <CADx+GQOoEFc3qmr7VnGJ8-stxyfoKiVfTA2KHWHC8QJJbAZwxw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1464190418.05.38104@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>
 <CADx+GQPQXLeb0k+3n9gAswD+xbvz+qHAhCjLzNkLfpOq2V5FcA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1464194504.2.38411@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>
Message-ID: <5746097B.10004@wingware.com>

Matthew Dixon Cowles wrote:
> Ewa,
>
>> >  I will work on making it more obvious in the future. That is all we
>> >  can do
>
> I'm sorry but it's not completely clear to me what you mean by "all
> we can do". Taken literally, that seems to mean that board
> resolutions can't be changed. But that doesn't seem likely to be the
> case. Do you mean, all that you are personally willing to do? All
> that the board is willing to do? Something else?

I personally feel it was more than enough for the board to ask all the 
existing sponsor members if they care and finding out that indeed they 
did not.  I'm very glad the board finally went ahead and made this 
change, which should have been made long ago.  It makes no sense to ask 
200+ people to vote every time there's a potential sponsor for an 
organization like this.  That's a revenue source and shouldn't even be 
board business, but just routine staff work.  It also makes no sense to 
try to drag disinterested sponsors into a voting role.  As long as 
sponsors are made to pay before they are listed, and it's clear that 
sponsoring gives them no special rights, then I really don't see a problem.

Anyway, I felt I should speak up as member in support of what the board 
did, and how it did it.

- Stephan


From antoine at python.org  Wed May 25 16:18:36 2016
From: antoine at python.org (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 22:18:36 +0200
Subject: [PSF-Community] Sponsor Members - Bylaws Revision
In-Reply-To: <574607C8.2040804@python.org>
References: <5745ABA9.8060906@python.org>
 <1464186368.49.34337@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com> <5745B8AC.8000109@python.org>
 <1464188900.15.34337@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com> <5745C7E2.3070306@python.org>
 <1464193931.5.38411@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com> <574607C8.2040804@python.org>
Message-ID: <5746089C.6070500@python.org>


Le 25/05/2016 22:15, M.-A. Lemburg a ?crit :
> 
> Some background:
> 
> The main reason members had to vote on sponsors under the
> version 1 bylaws was that sponsors gained voting rights. Otherwise,
> the board would have been able to take on this decision process
> by itself and relief the members from this duty (the board has
> in most cases done pre-screening of the candidates all along).
> 
> Under the version 2 bylaws, anyone can self certify
> as voting member, so while sponsors now no longer have
> voting rights, they can still have employees, engaging in
> Python community work, gain voting rights. In the end,
> removing the sponsor membership class is not really a
> practical loss.

Thanks for the explanation.  In that light, the board's decision looks
reasonable to me.

Regards

Antoine.

From matt at mondoinfo.com  Wed May 25 19:22:48 2016
From: matt at mondoinfo.com (Matthew Dixon Cowles)
Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 18:22:48 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [PSF-Community] Sponsor Members - Bylaws Revision
In-Reply-To: <574607C8.2040804@python.org>
References: <5745ABA9.8060906@python.org>
 <1464186368.49.34337@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com> <5745B8AC.8000109@python.org>
 <1464188900.15.34337@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com> <5745C7E2.3070306@python.org>
 <1464193931.5.38411@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com> <574607C8.2040804@python.org>
Message-ID: <1464215001.81.38817@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>

[Marc-Andre]
> Thank you for explaining your concern in more detail. This makes it
> easier to understand why you think we should have put this up for a
> members vote.

> the board remains ultimately responsible for any decisions in this
> direction.

I disagree. I think that the membership is ultimately responsible.

> Some background:
[an argument that I don't quite follow]


[Antoine Pitrou]
> Thanks for the explanation.  In that light, the board's decision
> looks reasonable to me.


[Stephan Deibel]
> Anyway, I felt I should speak up as member in support of what the
> board did, and how it did it.


If I didn't know better, I'd say that that was consulting with the
membership on the subject. <wink>

Regards,
Matt


From ncoghlan at gmail.com  Thu May 26 02:24:00 2016
From: ncoghlan at gmail.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Thu, 26 May 2016 16:24:00 +1000
Subject: [PSF-Community] Sponsor Members - Bylaws Revision
In-Reply-To: <1464215001.81.38817@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>
References: <5745ABA9.8060906@python.org>
 <1464186368.49.34337@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>
 <5745B8AC.8000109@python.org>
 <1464188900.15.34337@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>
 <5745C7E2.3070306@python.org>
 <1464193931.5.38411@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>
 <574607C8.2040804@python.org>
 <1464215001.81.38817@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>
Message-ID: <CADiSq7fBNX8h+N3Nhd9UgUZf4-2mYkFWu0wQx3hyNuwaX2O8ag@mail.gmail.com>

On 26 May 2016 at 09:22, Matthew Dixon Cowles <matt at mondoinfo.com> wrote:
> [Marc-Andre]
>> Thank you for explaining your concern in more detail. This makes it
>> easier to understand why you think we should have put this up for a
>> members vote.
>
>> the board remains ultimately responsible for any decisions in this
>> direction.
>
> I disagree. I think that the membership is ultimately responsible.

That was certainly the position of the original bylaws, but as the
voting membership base broadened, each sponsor member vote was
eliciting more "Why am I even being asked about this?" responses. By
instead switching sponsor approvals to a Working Group model without
any direct impact on the Foundation's future governance, it meant
that:

- members that wanted to be part of the sponsor review process could
sign up for the WG
- members that were happy to delegate the task to someone else would
no longer be bothered

This means both views are now accommodated - members that feel the
Board is ultimately responsible for sponsorship review can leave it up
to them (or the delegated Working Group), while folks that feel more
personal responsibility for the topic are precisely the kinds of folks
we'd like to see volunteering to join the new working group.

Regards,
Nick.

-- 
Nick Coghlan   |   ncoghlan at gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia

From mal at python.org  Thu May 26 04:58:30 2016
From: mal at python.org (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Thu, 26 May 2016 10:58:30 +0200
Subject: [PSF-Community] Django Girls workshop at EuroPython 2016
Message-ID: <5746BAB6.6050405@python.org>

We?re pleased to announce a Django Girls workshop on Sunday, July 17,
the first day of the EuroPython 2016 conference.

If you want participate or know someone who?d like to join, please
fill in our application form on the Django Girls? website:


		 *** Django Girls EuroPython 2016 ***

	       https://djangogirls.org/europython2016/


     Remember: you don?t need any prior programming knowledge to
			    participate !


About the workshop
------------------

After the workshop you will have learned about:

 * HTML / CSS
 * Python / Django

and in a single day, you?ll have created a blog.

If that sounds challenging, no worries: our friendly coaches will help
you.

Paola Katherine, DG organizer:

    "If you participate, we?ll raffle one full ticket for EuroPython
    2016, the largest and best Python event in Europe."


More infos
----------

The Django Girls EuroPython 2016 networks:

 * More infos and details on the website: djangogirls.org/europython2016
 * Facebook: fb.me/djangogirlseuropython
 * Twitter: @DjangoGirlsEP16

If you have questions, please write to bilbao at djangogirls.org


With gravitational regards,
--
EuroPython 2016 Team
http://ep2016.europython.eu/
http://www.europython-society.org/


PS: Please forward or retweet to help us reach all interested parties:
https://twitter.com/europython/status/735755247046426624
Thanks.


From ewa at python.org  Thu May 26 10:15:33 2016
From: ewa at python.org (Ewa Jodlowska)
Date: Thu, 26 May 2016 09:15:33 -0500
Subject: [PSF-Community] Members Needed for PSF Sponsor WG
Message-ID: <CADx+GQMFvEj=odwsxhv6s3YwDmtKCxmvAJUQXhCMBRFZzG27LA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everyone,

This is in relation to the recent bylaws change[1].

Betsy and I are starting the working group for PSF Sponsors. The initial
goal of this WG will be to review the PSF sponsorship applications that
come in. The review process will include discussion via the mailing list
and the voting process will also take place on the mailing list.

Betsy will be the chair of the WG and we are in need of a co-chair and a
few more voting members. If anyone is interested in participating in this
working group, please send a brief intro about yourself to
sponsors-wg at python.org.

Here is the draft wiki page and charter:
https://wiki.python.org/psf/SponsorWG. This has not yet been approved by
the board, but we need enough voting members first to bring this to the
board.

Please note: today Betsy and I are flying out to Portland to PyCon so we
will not be able to respond immediately.

*[1] the board has just approved an amendment of the PSF bylaws to*












*remove the sponsor membership category. From now on, we willjust have
sponsors and no longer need to vote them in, hopefullymaking it much easier
to sign up new sponsors. The next step iscreating a sponsors WG to take
over sponsor management.Here's the official resolution:- RESOLVED, that the
Python Software Foundation amend the PSF bylaws to   remove the Sponsor
Membership category. All changes made by the   Bylaws WG are listed
here:https://bitbucket.org/malemburg/psf-bylaws/diff/bylaws.md?diff1=ba846896778b&diff2=fa6ce90a3f1376b2708bf76d87c70813f96e010a&at=default
<https://bitbucket.org/malemburg/psf-bylaws/diff/bylaws.md?diff1=ba846896778b&diff2=fa6ce90a3f1376b2708bf76d87c70813f96e010a&at=default>.
 Approved 11-0-0 via email vote 25 May 2016and these are the updated
bylaws:https://www.python.org/psf/bylaws/?20160525
<https://www.python.org/psf/bylaws/?20160525>*


Best regards,

Ewa
Director of Operations
Python Software Foundation
Cell: 415-319-5237
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From carl at personnelware.com  Sat May 28 10:15:44 2016
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Sat, 28 May 2016 09:15:44 -0500
Subject: [PSF-Community] board candidates: tell me about transparency
Message-ID: <CADmzSSh1_oB-zPpPvFruLDypsQBcp0oPNoiq70tpZMm3nk52bA@mail.gmail.com>

All of the people nominated for the PSF board are good people who will do
good things.  If things were running smooth, I wouldn't really care who
gets elected.

But once again, we see people asking questions due to lack of transparency.

So once again, I ask:  What will you do about it?

-- 
Carl K
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From steve at holdenweb.com  Sat May 28 12:02:22 2016
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 28 May 2016 17:02:22 +0100
Subject: [PSF-Community] board candidates: tell me about transparency
In-Reply-To: <CADmzSSh1_oB-zPpPvFruLDypsQBcp0oPNoiq70tpZMm3nk52bA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADmzSSh1_oB-zPpPvFruLDypsQBcp0oPNoiq70tpZMm3nk52bA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMofdRBoanDDm4j+xn_gOoF6aNUd09MgH7qHkUq7dib8bUfGGA@mail.gmail.com>

Stand for the board and make sure it becomes more transparent?  S

Steve Holden

On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 3:15 PM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com>
wrote:

> All of the people nominated for the PSF board are good people who will do
> good things.  If things were running smooth, I wouldn't really care who
> gets elected.
>
> But once again, we see people asking questions due to lack of transparency.
>
> So once again, I ask:  What will you do about it?
>
> --
> Carl K
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> PSF-Community mailing list
> PSF-Community at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>
>
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From jackiekazil at gmail.com  Sat May 28 12:13:53 2016
From: jackiekazil at gmail.com (Jacqueline Kazil)
Date: Sat, 28 May 2016 12:13:53 -0400
Subject: [PSF-Community] board candidates: tell me about transparency
In-Reply-To: <CAMofdRBoanDDm4j+xn_gOoF6aNUd09MgH7qHkUq7dib8bUfGGA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADmzSSh1_oB-zPpPvFruLDypsQBcp0oPNoiq70tpZMm3nk52bA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMofdRBoanDDm4j+xn_gOoF6aNUd09MgH7qHkUq7dib8bUfGGA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKD0ODwmuNDw3b1Q2ZRVzqYNMK32eE915jHsWSbBr8R9a1wo1w@mail.gmail.com>

User testing?

On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 12:02 PM, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:

> Stand for the board and make sure it becomes more transparent?  S
>
> Steve Holden
>
> On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 3:15 PM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com>
> wrote:
>
>> All of the people nominated for the PSF board are good people who will do
>> good things.  If things were running smooth, I wouldn't really care who
>> gets elected.
>>
>> But once again, we see people asking questions due to lack of
>> transparency.
>>
>> So once again, I ask:  What will you do about it?
>>
>> --
>> Carl K
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> PSF-Community mailing list
>> PSF-Community at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> PSF-Community mailing list
> PSF-Community at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>
>


-- 
Jacqueline Kazil | @jackiekazil
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From pjj at philipjohnjames.com  Sat May 28 20:54:58 2016
From: pjj at philipjohnjames.com (Philip James)
Date: Sat, 28 May 2016 17:54:58 -0700
Subject: [PSF-Community] board candidates: tell me about transparency
In-Reply-To: <CADmzSSh1_oB-zPpPvFruLDypsQBcp0oPNoiq70tpZMm3nk52bA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADmzSSh1_oB-zPpPvFruLDypsQBcp0oPNoiq70tpZMm3nk52bA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <81D667E9-6BF9-4648-9F52-B484419EBEC3@philipjohnjames.com>

One thing we could do is publish agendas either in full or in part before the Board meetings. This could give time for members to express opinions and concerns to the Board. 

I am not a current Board member, and won't know until Tuesday if I am going to be a Board member, and haven't spoken with any existing Board members to see if this is possible. We might be doing this already, and I'm just not aware of it. 

My take on the recent discussion is that many felt blindsided by the decision, and publishing agendas in advance of the meeting might alleviate that concern. 

> On May 28, 2016, at 07:15, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:
> 
> All of the people nominated for the PSF board are good people who will do good things.  If things were running smooth, I wouldn't really care who gets elected.
> 
> But once again, we see people asking questions due to lack of transparency.
> 
> So once again, I ask:  What will you do about it?
> 
> -- 
> Carl K
> 
> _______________________________________________
> PSF-Community mailing list
> PSF-Community at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community

From diana.joan.clarke at gmail.com  Sun May 29 01:54:27 2016
From: diana.joan.clarke at gmail.com (Diana Clarke)
Date: Sun, 29 May 2016 01:54:27 -0400
Subject: [PSF-Community] board candidates: tell me about transparency
In-Reply-To: <CADmzSSh1_oB-zPpPvFruLDypsQBcp0oPNoiq70tpZMm3nk52bA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADmzSSh1_oB-zPpPvFruLDypsQBcp0oPNoiq70tpZMm3nk52bA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEZAPrBbWV_G1q75rUMO73uD_GBvRMPCC+hyq821fO9k5makVg@mail.gmail.com>

Before I was on the board, I also used to wonder what was being
discussed behind closed doors. Spoiler alert: it's far less exciting
than you might expect. As Tim Peters once put it: "Exciting as
watching rocks sleep? Yup, but essential - the glory of serving on the
Board isn't for everyone ;-)".

Having now served on the board, I can confirm that the meeting minutes
published every few weeks pretty accurately reflect our actionable
discussions. These twice monthly meetings are an hour long which
doesn't leave much time for real discussion. For the most part, these
meetings are just used to cast votes on the resolutions you see listed
in the meeting minutes. Most of the actual discussion happens prior to
the meetings on the PSF board mailing list.

    https://www.python.org/psf/records/board/minutes/
    https://www.python.org/psf/records/board/resolutions/

Even so, the vast majority of email on the PSF board mailing list just
revolves around grant requests for regional conferences, workshops,
etc. The new Grants Working Group is starting to take on more and more
of those requests which will hopefully free up the board for more
strategic work. That said, I suspect people think the PSF board is
more hands-on than it actually is. For the most part, the Python
community sits on the shoulders of individual volunteers with no
official PSF titles (and the PSF staff, of course). The PSF board has
very little to do with PyCon US or PyPI, for example.

Baby just woke up, so quickly now (and please excuse any typos). In an
effort to address some of the past concerns around transparency &
communication, the PSF:

  - promptly publishes meeting minutes & resolutions online
  - retired the old private psf-members mailing list and created this
new public mailing list
  - opened up pretty much all of the historically private PSF wiki content
  - sends twice monthly emails to this list with grant summaries,
meeting minute links, etc
  - has two bloggers broadcast community success stories, PSF news, etc

I hope that helps clarify the kinds of discussions the PSF board has
during the meetings and on the board mailing list, as well as the
current efforts around transparency. There's always room for
improvement, so do let the board know if you have any fresh ideas on
this front. Bonus points for having the time to help implement them.

Cheers,

--diana

On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 10:15 AM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:
> All of the people nominated for the PSF board are good people who will do
> good things.  If things were running smooth, I wouldn't really care who gets
> elected.
>
> But once again, we see people asking questions due to lack of transparency.
>
> So once again, I ask:  What will you do about it?
>
> --
> Carl K
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> PSF-Community mailing list
> PSF-Community at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>

From willingc at willingconsulting.com  Sun May 29 09:37:40 2016
From: willingc at willingconsulting.com (Carol Willing)
Date: Sun, 29 May 2016 06:37:40 -0700
Subject: [PSF-Community] board candidates: tell me about transparency
In-Reply-To: <CADmzSSh1_oB-zPpPvFruLDypsQBcp0oPNoiq70tpZMm3nk52bA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADmzSSh1_oB-zPpPvFruLDypsQBcp0oPNoiq70tpZMm3nk52bA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <83CCDC13-49FD-41CA-8B53-47B788D8D19A@willingconsulting.com>


On 28 May 2016, at 7:15, Carl Karsten wrote:

> All of the people nominated for the PSF board are good people who will 
> do
> good things.  If things were running smooth, I wouldn't really care 
> who
> gets elected.
>
> But once again, we see people asking questions due to lack of 
> transparency.
>
> So once again, I ask:  What will you do about it?
>

I think others raise good points and Diana has very accurately reflected 
the current PSF board operations and communications.

Personally, I would advocate for actions that continue to increase the 
level of transparency:

- publishing an annual calendar of board meetings at the beginning of 
each term
- releasing board meeting agendas to the community prior to the board 
meetings by posting the meeting agenda on the website ideally 72 hours 
before a scheduled meeting
- drafting a meeting agenda that defaults to information being public 
but also allows for an executive session portion of the agenda for items 
where confidentiality is important i.e. anonymity requested by a donor, 
personnel discussions, etc.
- listening and responding to community questions in a timely, 
thoughtful, and respectful manner

We could consider new ways to gain feedback from the community about 
specific areas that the community would like to see greater 
transparency. Perhaps offering a mid-term survey of community 
satisfaction on a number of topics including transparency to get a 
representative sense of ?How are we doing as a board??. A link could 
be posted at the bottom of agendas where community members can easily 
email the entire board thoughts about agenda items.

Warmly,

Carol


Carol Willing
Research Software Engineer, Project Jupyter @ Cal Poly
Director, Python Software Foundation

From carl at personnelware.com  Sun May 29 11:17:42 2016
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Sun, 29 May 2016 10:17:42 -0500
Subject: [PSF-Community] board candidates: tell me about transparency
In-Reply-To: <CAEZAPrBbWV_G1q75rUMO73uD_GBvRMPCC+hyq821fO9k5makVg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADmzSSh1_oB-zPpPvFruLDypsQBcp0oPNoiq70tpZMm3nk52bA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEZAPrBbWV_G1q75rUMO73uD_GBvRMPCC+hyq821fO9k5makVg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADmzSShL97eBDsh2y9yrFk9Pn0Omp2frrP==G7MtC3Aa9_CiUg@mail.gmail.com>

> I also used to wonder what was being discussed behind closed doors.

We shouldn't have to wonder. If it really is that boring, fine, but it
should be up to me to decide how I spend my time.

The posted minutes are just a summary and results of the discussions and
votes.  They don't tell me what was seen as pros and cons and how they were
weighted.

I have no idea what the individual board members think. Even when there is
a unanimous vote, I still don't know why they voted that way.

I have no idea what the board or any of the members thinks their roll is
regarding PyCon US, something I care deeply about.   I have had to have
face to face conversations to hear some a surprising opinion as to it's
direction.  That person is not running this year, so we don't need to worry
about if that makes any sense or we should vote him out.

But it was a very short conversation and we didn't have time to talk about
it.  If I could read the archives, I wouldn't need to talk about it, nor
would I be surprised.  I may disagree, that's fine.   Being surprised, I
have a problem with that.




On Sun, May 29, 2016 at 12:54 AM, Diana Clarke <diana.joan.clarke at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Before I was on the board, I also used to wonder what was being
> discussed behind closed doors. Spoiler alert: it's far less exciting
> than you might expect. As Tim Peters once put it: "Exciting as
> watching rocks sleep? Yup, but essential - the glory of serving on the
> Board isn't for everyone ;-)".
>
> Having now served on the board, I can confirm that the meeting minutes
> published every few weeks pretty accurately reflect our actionable
> discussions. These twice monthly meetings are an hour long which
> doesn't leave much time for real discussion. For the most part, these
> meetings are just used to cast votes on the resolutions you see listed
> in the meeting minutes. Most of the actual discussion happens prior to
> the meetings on the PSF board mailing list.
>
>     https://www.python.org/psf/records/board/minutes/
>     https://www.python.org/psf/records/board/resolutions/
>
> Even so, the vast majority of email on the PSF board mailing list just
> revolves around grant requests for regional conferences, workshops,
> etc. The new Grants Working Group is starting to take on more and more
> of those requests which will hopefully free up the board for more
> strategic work. That said, I suspect people think the PSF board is
> more hands-on than it actually is. For the most part, the Python
> community sits on the shoulders of individual volunteers with no
> official PSF titles (and the PSF staff, of course). The PSF board has
> very little to do with PyCon US or PyPI, for example.
>
> Baby just woke up, so quickly now (and please excuse any typos). In an
> effort to address some of the past concerns around transparency &
> communication, the PSF:
>
>   - promptly publishes meeting minutes & resolutions online
>   - retired the old private psf-members mailing list and created this
> new public mailing list
>   - opened up pretty much all of the historically private PSF wiki content
>   - sends twice monthly emails to this list with grant summaries,
> meeting minute links, etc
>   - has two bloggers broadcast community success stories, PSF news, etc
>
> I hope that helps clarify the kinds of discussions the PSF board has
> during the meetings and on the board mailing list, as well as the
> current efforts around transparency. There's always room for
> improvement, so do let the board know if you have any fresh ideas on
> this front. Bonus points for having the time to help implement them.
>
> Cheers,
>
> --diana
>
> On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 10:15 AM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com>
> wrote:
> > All of the people nominated for the PSF board are good people who will do
> > good things.  If things were running smooth, I wouldn't really care who
> gets
> > elected.
> >
> > But once again, we see people asking questions due to lack of
> transparency.
> >
> > So once again, I ask:  What will you do about it?
> >
> > --
> > Carl K
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > PSF-Community mailing list
> > PSF-Community at python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
> >
>



-- 
Carl K
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From jackiekazil at gmail.com  Sun May 29 12:23:07 2016
From: jackiekazil at gmail.com (Jacqueline Kazil)
Date: Sun, 29 May 2016 09:23:07 -0700
Subject: [PSF-Community] PSF working groups - how to become a member
Message-ID: <CAKD0ODxs-k=HtjSms_REi+vydED+SjU3mGqjumQrWQyXbs619w@mail.gmail.com>

How does someone become a member of a working group?
(I can't find this information on the website.)

-Jackie

-- 
Jacqueline Kazil | @jackiekazil
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From mal at python.org  Sun May 29 12:29:47 2016
From: mal at python.org (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Sun, 29 May 2016 18:29:47 +0200
Subject: [PSF-Community] PSF working groups - how to become a member
In-Reply-To: <CAKD0ODxs-k=HtjSms_REi+vydED+SjU3mGqjumQrWQyXbs619w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKD0ODxs-k=HtjSms_REi+vydED+SjU3mGqjumQrWQyXbs619w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <574B18FB.5040702@python.org>

On 29.05.2016 18:23, Jacqueline Kazil wrote:
> How does someone become a member of a working group?
> (I can't find this information on the website.)

I don't think there's a general purpose answer for this,
except maybe: ask the chair(s) of the WGs ...

https://wiki.python.org/psf/Contents#psf-working-groups

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
Director
Python Software Foundation
http://www.python.org/psf/
http://www.malemburg.com/

From naomi.ceder at gmail.com  Sun May 29 12:35:28 2016
From: naomi.ceder at gmail.com (Naomi Ceder)
Date: Sun, 29 May 2016 09:35:28 -0700
Subject: [PSF-Community] PSF working groups - how to become a member
In-Reply-To: <574B18FB.5040702@python.org>
References: <CAKD0ODxs-k=HtjSms_REi+vydED+SjU3mGqjumQrWQyXbs619w@mail.gmail.com>
 <574B18FB.5040702@python.org>
Message-ID: <CAKvj0qTmrUeECYAJXPbt__uM-XtuSiQJZewX5_3ftGgP87qATA@mail.gmail.com>

In the case of the Grants WG, I believe that the charter says members are
appointed/approved by the board.

On 29 May 2016 at 09:29, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at python.org> wrote:

> On 29.05.2016 18:23, Jacqueline Kazil wrote:
> > How does someone become a member of a working group?
> > (I can't find this information on the website.)
>
> I don't think there's a general purpose answer for this,
> except maybe: ask the chair(s) of the WGs ...
>
> https://wiki.python.org/psf/Contents#psf-working-groups
>
> --
> Marc-Andre Lemburg
> Director
> Python Software Foundation
> http://www.python.org/psf/
> http://www.malemburg.com/
> _______________________________________________
> PSF-Community mailing list
> PSF-Community at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>



-- 
Naomi Ceder
https://plus.google.com/u/0/111396744045017339164/about
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From jackiekazil at gmail.com  Sun May 29 12:38:59 2016
From: jackiekazil at gmail.com (Jacqueline Kazil)
Date: Sun, 29 May 2016 09:38:59 -0700
Subject: [PSF-Community] PSF working groups - how to become a member
In-Reply-To: <CAKvj0qTmrUeECYAJXPbt__uM-XtuSiQJZewX5_3ftGgP87qATA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKD0ODxs-k=HtjSms_REi+vydED+SjU3mGqjumQrWQyXbs619w@mail.gmail.com>
 <574B18FB.5040702@python.org>
 <CAKvj0qTmrUeECYAJXPbt__uM-XtuSiQJZewX5_3ftGgP87qATA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKD0ODwQQXeWkaxZ6Jpe6Ou2HN=s2SkxA_7vMDkyHb9gvLK8TA@mail.gmail.com>

The reason why I asked this is because I am in the educational summit, and
the speaker encouraged folks to join the working group.
I was looking at this link: https://www.python.org/psf/committees/, which
makes it a little more confusing.
It seems like this page
https://wiki.python.org/psf/Contents#psf-working-groups & the links off of
that page seem to explain more.

Is there a reason why this https://www.python.org/psf/committees/ &
https://wiki.python.org/psf/Contents#psf-working-groups exists?
This page https://wiki.python.org/psf/Contents#psf-working-groups is more
welcoming to newbies who don't understand how things work.


On Sun, May 29, 2016 at 9:35 AM, Naomi Ceder <naomi.ceder at gmail.com> wrote:

> In the case of the Grants WG, I believe that the charter says members are
> appointed/approved by the board.
>
> On 29 May 2016 at 09:29, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at python.org> wrote:
>
>> On 29.05.2016 18:23, Jacqueline Kazil wrote:
>> > How does someone become a member of a working group?
>> > (I can't find this information on the website.)
>>
>> I don't think there's a general purpose answer for this,
>> except maybe: ask the chair(s) of the WGs ...
>>
>> https://wiki.python.org/psf/Contents#psf-working-groups
>>
>> --
>> Marc-Andre Lemburg
>> Director
>> Python Software Foundation
>> http://www.python.org/psf/
>> http://www.malemburg.com/
>> _______________________________________________
>> PSF-Community mailing list
>> PSF-Community at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Naomi Ceder
> https://plus.google.com/u/0/111396744045017339164/about
>



-- 
Jacqueline Kazil | @jackiekazil
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From naomi.ceder at gmail.com  Sun May 29 12:42:57 2016
From: naomi.ceder at gmail.com (Naomi Ceder)
Date: Sun, 29 May 2016 09:42:57 -0700
Subject: [PSF-Community] PSF working groups - how to become a member
In-Reply-To: <CAKD0ODwQQXeWkaxZ6Jpe6Ou2HN=s2SkxA_7vMDkyHb9gvLK8TA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKD0ODxs-k=HtjSms_REi+vydED+SjU3mGqjumQrWQyXbs619w@mail.gmail.com>
 <574B18FB.5040702@python.org>
 <CAKvj0qTmrUeECYAJXPbt__uM-XtuSiQJZewX5_3ftGgP87qATA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKD0ODwQQXeWkaxZ6Jpe6Ou2HN=s2SkxA_7vMDkyHb9gvLK8TA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKvj0qRGFztK3ixid2s2GQezPz5CEh2hatTfNeskHb90MHkFRA@mail.gmail.com>

Well, first... the education WG charter should state what the membership
criteria are. As I recall from talking to Carrie Ann, they welcome all.

Second, synchronizing content (and making it user friendly) is a continual
challenge. Definitely this is an area that needs some love.

On 29 May 2016 at 09:38, Jacqueline Kazil <jackiekazil at gmail.com> wrote:

> The reason why I asked this is because I am in the educational summit, and
> the speaker encouraged folks to join the working group.
> I was looking at this link: https://www.python.org/psf/committees/, which
> makes it a little more confusing.
> It seems like this page
> https://wiki.python.org/psf/Contents#psf-working-groups & the links off
> of that page seem to explain more.
>
> Is there a reason why this https://www.python.org/psf/committees/ &
> https://wiki.python.org/psf/Contents#psf-working-groups exists?
> This page https://wiki.python.org/psf/Contents#psf-working-groups is more
> welcoming to newbies who don't understand how things work.
>
>
> On Sun, May 29, 2016 at 9:35 AM, Naomi Ceder <naomi.ceder at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> In the case of the Grants WG, I believe that the charter says members are
>> appointed/approved by the board.
>>
>> On 29 May 2016 at 09:29, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at python.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 29.05.2016 18:23, Jacqueline Kazil wrote:
>>> > How does someone become a member of a working group?
>>> > (I can't find this information on the website.)
>>>
>>> I don't think there's a general purpose answer for this,
>>> except maybe: ask the chair(s) of the WGs ...
>>>
>>> https://wiki.python.org/psf/Contents#psf-working-groups
>>>
>>> --
>>> Marc-Andre Lemburg
>>> Director
>>> Python Software Foundation
>>> http://www.python.org/psf/
>>> http://www.malemburg.com/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> PSF-Community mailing list
>>> PSF-Community at python.org
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Naomi Ceder
>> https://plus.google.com/u/0/111396744045017339164/about
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jacqueline Kazil | @jackiekazil
>
>
>


-- 
Naomi Ceder
https://plus.google.com/u/0/111396744045017339164/about
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From jackiekazil at gmail.com  Sun May 29 12:46:26 2016
From: jackiekazil at gmail.com (Jacqueline Kazil)
Date: Sun, 29 May 2016 09:46:26 -0700
Subject: [PSF-Community] PSF working groups - how to become a member
In-Reply-To: <CAKvj0qRGFztK3ixid2s2GQezPz5CEh2hatTfNeskHb90MHkFRA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKD0ODxs-k=HtjSms_REi+vydED+SjU3mGqjumQrWQyXbs619w@mail.gmail.com>
 <574B18FB.5040702@python.org>
 <CAKvj0qTmrUeECYAJXPbt__uM-XtuSiQJZewX5_3ftGgP87qATA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKD0ODwQQXeWkaxZ6Jpe6Ou2HN=s2SkxA_7vMDkyHb9gvLK8TA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKvj0qRGFztK3ixid2s2GQezPz5CEh2hatTfNeskHb90MHkFRA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKD0ODxsJs+9b=YubR97RCY1r4DyHSyFgfip2dArhBNRFNsmAQ@mail.gmail.com>

/me tries to gently close the can of worms and realizes it is too late.
Worms are everywhere.

What is the difference between?
https://www.python.org/ <https://www.python.org/psf/committees/>
&
https://wiki.python.org/
^^ should one set of pages be redirected?




On Sun, May 29, 2016 at 9:42 AM, Naomi Ceder <naomi.ceder at gmail.com> wrote:

> Well, first... the education WG charter should state what the membership
> criteria are. As I recall from talking to Carrie Ann, they welcome all.
>
> Second, synchronizing content (and making it user friendly) is a continual
> challenge. Definitely this is an area that needs some love.
>
> On 29 May 2016 at 09:38, Jacqueline Kazil <jackiekazil at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The reason why I asked this is because I am in the educational summit,
>> and the speaker encouraged folks to join the working group.
>> I was looking at this link: https://www.python.org/psf/committees/,
>> which makes it a little more confusing.
>> It seems like this page
>> https://wiki.python.org/psf/Contents#psf-working-groups & the links off
>> of that page seem to explain more.
>>
>> Is there a reason why this https://www.python.org/psf/committees/ &
>> https://wiki.python.org/psf/Contents#psf-working-groups exists?
>> This page https://wiki.python.org/psf/Contents#psf-working-groups is
>> more welcoming to newbies who don't understand how things work.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, May 29, 2016 at 9:35 AM, Naomi Ceder <naomi.ceder at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In the case of the Grants WG, I believe that the charter says members
>>> are appointed/approved by the board.
>>>
>>> On 29 May 2016 at 09:29, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at python.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 29.05.2016 18:23, Jacqueline Kazil wrote:
>>>> > How does someone become a member of a working group?
>>>> > (I can't find this information on the website.)
>>>>
>>>> I don't think there's a general purpose answer for this,
>>>> except maybe: ask the chair(s) of the WGs ...
>>>>
>>>> https://wiki.python.org/psf/Contents#psf-working-groups
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Marc-Andre Lemburg
>>>> Director
>>>> Python Software Foundation
>>>> http://www.python.org/psf/
>>>> http://www.malemburg.com/
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> PSF-Community mailing list
>>>> PSF-Community at python.org
>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Naomi Ceder
>>> https://plus.google.com/u/0/111396744045017339164/about
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jacqueline Kazil | @jackiekazil
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Naomi Ceder
> https://plus.google.com/u/0/111396744045017339164/about
>



-- 
Jacqueline Kazil | @jackiekazil
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From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun May 29 13:04:16 2016
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 29 May 2016 18:04:16 +0100
Subject: [PSF-Community] board candidates: tell me about transparency
In-Reply-To: <CADmzSShL97eBDsh2y9yrFk9Pn0Omp2frrP==G7MtC3Aa9_CiUg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADmzSSh1_oB-zPpPvFruLDypsQBcp0oPNoiq70tpZMm3nk52bA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEZAPrBbWV_G1q75rUMO73uD_GBvRMPCC+hyq821fO9k5makVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADmzSShL97eBDsh2y9yrFk9Pn0Omp2frrP==G7MtC3Aa9_CiUg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMofdRBXJr+Ca-fEQBCMNsT2OCya2GmOYRTH3cks6c6_F+0otw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, May 29, 2016 at 4:17 PM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com>
wrote:

> > I also used to wonder what was being discussed behind closed doors.
>
> We shouldn't have to wonder. If it really is that boring, fine, but it
> should be up to me to decide how I spend my time.
>
> The posted minutes are just a summary and results of the discussions and
> votes.  They don't tell me what was seen as pros and cons and how they were
> weighted.
>
> For Heaven's sake. We elect a board to look after these issues. You can't
expect to second-guess every deliberation. If you want to do that, stand
for the board.

I have no idea what the individual board members think. Even when there is
> a unanimous vote, I still don't know why they voted that way.
>
> Because that's what they thought would be in the Foundation's best
interests.

[...]

Steve Holden
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From carl at personnelware.com  Sun May 29 14:26:55 2016
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Sun, 29 May 2016 13:26:55 -0500
Subject: [PSF-Community]  board candidates: tell me about transparency
Message-ID: <CADmzSSij76_mGKVuT-bYn+_3Dypi=46Y=0bnq21xq+twZgzN3w@mail.gmail.com>

"The psf-board-public mailing list, which is used for board discussions
which are not legally or otherwise sensitive, allowing them to be shared
with the wider PSF membership."
- https://wiki.python.org/psf/Info%20for%20new%20PSF%20members

That does not seem accurate, and I consider it a problem.

The only traffic this list gets is Diana's post of the meeting minutes
(Thank you Diana) with these exceptions I found:

1 post form a board member, no reply.  Not sure that qualifies as a
discussion.
https://mail.python.org/mailman/private/psf-board-public/2015-October/001110.html

On Sun, Aug 2, 2015 at 7:22 AM, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at egenix.com> wrote:
> IMO, Van's version is ... (follow the link if you want to know the rest)
https://mail.python.org/mailman/private/psf-board-public/2015-August/thread.html

This shows me that MAL is taking an active role in shaping the results.   I
may not really agree with his position, but I know what it is, and if I
strongly disagreed I would like to think someone would want to hear about
it.  And or if I disagree with enough of his ideas, maybe I won't vote for
him.

May June and July have a little activity too:
https://mail.python.org/mailman/private/psf-board-public/2015-July/thread.html

It looks like most of the traffic is from non board members.

Is this why the board stopped using it for board discussions?

Why are non board members allowed to post to the board list?


Steve,

I am trying to elect board members and want to know how they feel about
something I care about.  If you want to have a discussion, start a new
thread.



On Sun, May 29, 2016 at 12:04 PM, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, May 29, 2016 at 4:17 PM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com>
wrote:
>>
>> > I also used to wonder what was being discussed behind closed doors.
>>
>> We shouldn't have to wonder. If it really is that boring, fine, but it
should be up to me to decide how I spend my time.
>>
>> The posted minutes are just a summary and results of the discussions and
votes.  They don't tell me what was seen as pros and cons and how they were
weighted.
>>
> For Heaven's sake. We elect a board to look after these issues. You can't
expect to second-guess every deliberation. If you want to do that, stand
for the board.
>
>> I have no idea what the individual board members think. Even when there
is a unanimous vote, I still don't know why they voted that way.
>>
> Because that's what they thought would be in the Foundation's best
interests.
>
> [...]
>
> Steve Holden




--
Carl K
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From mal at python.org  Sun May 29 15:58:56 2016
From: mal at python.org (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Sun, 29 May 2016 21:58:56 +0200
Subject: [PSF-Community] PSF working groups - how to become a member
In-Reply-To: <CAKD0ODwQQXeWkaxZ6Jpe6Ou2HN=s2SkxA_7vMDkyHb9gvLK8TA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKD0ODxs-k=HtjSms_REi+vydED+SjU3mGqjumQrWQyXbs619w@mail.gmail.com>
 <574B18FB.5040702@python.org>
 <CAKvj0qTmrUeECYAJXPbt__uM-XtuSiQJZewX5_3ftGgP87qATA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKD0ODwQQXeWkaxZ6Jpe6Ou2HN=s2SkxA_7vMDkyHb9gvLK8TA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <574B4A00.8030508@python.org>

On 29.05.2016 18:38, Jacqueline Kazil wrote:
> Is there a reason why this https://www.python.org/psf/committees/ &
> https://wiki.python.org/psf/Contents#psf-working-groups exists?
> This page https://wiki.python.org/psf/Contents#psf-working-groups is more
> welcoming to newbies who don't understand how things work.

Only historical reasons. Up until a few months ago, the PSF wiki
was only accessible to PSF members, so the second link was not
public. We subsequently changed the default on the
PSF wiki to readable by everyone (see attached email).

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
Python Software Foundation
http://www.python.org/psf/
http://www.malemburg.com/
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From: "M.-A. Lemburg" <mal at python.org>
Subject: Re: [PSF-Board] [PSF-Members] Opening up the PSF Wiki
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 22:08:46 +0200
Size: 8184
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/psf-community/attachments/20160529/9078849e/attachment.mht>

From matt at mondoinfo.com  Sun May 29 15:59:29 2016
From: matt at mondoinfo.com (Matthew Dixon Cowles)
Date: Sun, 29 May 2016 14:59:29 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [PSF-Community] board candidates: tell me about transparency
In-Reply-To: <CAMofdRBXJr+Ca-fEQBCMNsT2OCya2GmOYRTH3cks6c6_F+0otw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADmzSSh1_oB-zPpPvFruLDypsQBcp0oPNoiq70tpZMm3nk52bA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEZAPrBbWV_G1q75rUMO73uD_GBvRMPCC+hyq821fO9k5makVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADmzSShL97eBDsh2y9yrFk9Pn0Omp2frrP==G7MtC3Aa9_CiUg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMofdRBXJr+Ca-fEQBCMNsT2OCya2GmOYRTH3cks6c6_F+0otw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1464543492.07.42647@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>

Please correct me if I get any quoting below wrong, it seems to have
come through a bit confused.

[Steve Holden]
> For Heaven's sake. We elect a board to look after these issues. You
> can't expect to second-guess every deliberation. If you want to do
> that, stand for the board.

[Karl Karsten]
> I have no idea what the individual board members think. Even when
> there is a unanimous vote, I still don't know why they voted that
> way.

I too think it's legitimate for members to want to know not just the
"what" but also the "why".

[Steve Holden]
> Because that's what they thought would be in the Foundation's best
> interests.

The PSF is a pretty big organization now. (Though I don't seem to be
able to find a recent budget to see just how big. Is that a fault in
my searching?)

I think that members could have an interest in something more than
belief in good intentions. The same good intentions can lead
different people to different conclusions.

I bet even Perl programmers have good intentions!

Regards,
Matt


From antoine at python.org  Sun May 29 16:23:54 2016
From: antoine at python.org (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Sun, 29 May 2016 22:23:54 +0200
Subject: [PSF-Community] board candidates: tell me about transparency
In-Reply-To: <1464543492.07.42647@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>
References: <CADmzSSh1_oB-zPpPvFruLDypsQBcp0oPNoiq70tpZMm3nk52bA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEZAPrBbWV_G1q75rUMO73uD_GBvRMPCC+hyq821fO9k5makVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADmzSShL97eBDsh2y9yrFk9Pn0Omp2frrP==G7MtC3Aa9_CiUg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMofdRBXJr+Ca-fEQBCMNsT2OCya2GmOYRTH3cks6c6_F+0otw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1464543492.07.42647@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>
Message-ID: <574B4FDA.1040204@python.org>


Le 29/05/2016 21:59, Matthew Dixon Cowles a ?crit :
> 
> The PSF is a pretty big organization now. (Though I don't seem to be
> able to find a recent budget to see just how big. Is that a fault in
> my searching?)
> 
> I think that members could have an interest in something more than
> belief in good intentions. The same good intentions can lead
> different people to different conclusions.

Definitely agreed.

> I bet even Perl programmers have good intentions!

They are good at hiding it.

Regards

Antoine.

From srinivasakp at gmail.com  Mon May 30 02:39:43 2016
From: srinivasakp at gmail.com (Srinivasa KP)
Date: Mon, 30 May 2016 12:09:43 +0530
Subject: [PSF-Community] board candidates: tell me about transparency
In-Reply-To: <574B4FDA.1040204@python.org>
References: <CADmzSSh1_oB-zPpPvFruLDypsQBcp0oPNoiq70tpZMm3nk52bA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEZAPrBbWV_G1q75rUMO73uD_GBvRMPCC+hyq821fO9k5makVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADmzSShL97eBDsh2y9yrFk9Pn0Omp2frrP==G7MtC3Aa9_CiUg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMofdRBXJr+Ca-fEQBCMNsT2OCya2GmOYRTH3cks6c6_F+0otw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1464543492.07.42647@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com> <574B4FDA.1040204@python.org>
Message-ID: <CAJSDTuHB0M9NFEP=Sv=T39x-Th41gtLBczx4-5qyKHMo3qkgcg@mail.gmail.com>

Just trust.

On Mon, May 30, 2016 at 1:53 AM, Antoine Pitrou <antoine at python.org> wrote:

>
> Le 29/05/2016 21:59, Matthew Dixon Cowles a ?crit :
> >
> > The PSF is a pretty big organization now. (Though I don't seem to be
> > able to find a recent budget to see just how big. Is that a fault in
> > my searching?)
> >
> > I think that members could have an interest in something more than
> > belief in good intentions. The same good intentions can lead
> > different people to different conclusions.
>
> Definitely agreed.
>
> > I bet even Perl programmers have good intentions!
>
> They are good at hiding it.
>
> Regards
>
> Antoine.
> _______________________________________________
> PSF-Community mailing list
> PSF-Community at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>
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From erik at erik.io  Mon May 30 08:52:16 2016
From: erik at erik.io (Erik Romijn)
Date: Mon, 30 May 2016 14:52:16 +0200
Subject: [PSF-Community] on perl programmers
In-Reply-To: <574B4FDA.1040204@python.org>
References: <CADmzSSh1_oB-zPpPvFruLDypsQBcp0oPNoiq70tpZMm3nk52bA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEZAPrBbWV_G1q75rUMO73uD_GBvRMPCC+hyq821fO9k5makVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADmzSShL97eBDsh2y9yrFk9Pn0Omp2frrP==G7MtC3Aa9_CiUg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMofdRBXJr+Ca-fEQBCMNsT2OCya2GmOYRTH3cks6c6_F+0otw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1464543492.07.42647@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com> <574B4FDA.1040204@python.org>
Message-ID: <F33315F4-F540-4461-AE21-2F6C0D10CD83@erik.io>

Hello all,

I don?t mean to derail the discussion on board transparency, but I 
felt I could not let these particular comments go by:

>> I bet even Perl programmers have good intentions!
> 
> They are good at hiding it.

In my opinion, these comments are disrespectful and not inclusive.

I know how it seems fun to poke at other languages. I personally 
have written Perl code in the past, and strongly dislike it. However,
that doesn?t mean Perl programmers have any less worth. If we make 
it seem as if the Python community considers Perl programmers lesser 
people/programmers, we are making our community unwelcome to people 
that have made different technology choices, or even are unable to
make different choices.

I assume that these comments were meant as non-malicious jokes. But
that made it especially important for me to draw attention to the
effects they can have. So that we can help our community be 
inclusive to everyone :)

Erik

From tritium-list at sdamon.com  Mon May 30 09:19:35 2016
From: tritium-list at sdamon.com (tritium-list at sdamon.com)
Date: Mon, 30 May 2016 09:19:35 -0400
Subject: [PSF-Community] on perl programmers
In-Reply-To: <F33315F4-F540-4461-AE21-2F6C0D10CD83@erik.io>
References: <CADmzSSh1_oB-zPpPvFruLDypsQBcp0oPNoiq70tpZMm3nk52bA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEZAPrBbWV_G1q75rUMO73uD_GBvRMPCC+hyq821fO9k5makVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADmzSShL97eBDsh2y9yrFk9Pn0Omp2frrP==G7MtC3Aa9_CiUg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMofdRBXJr+Ca-fEQBCMNsT2OCya2GmOYRTH3cks6c6_F+0otw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1464543492.07.42647@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com> <574B4FDA.1040204@python.org>
 <F33315F4-F540-4461-AE21-2F6C0D10CD83@erik.io>
Message-ID: <010701d1ba75$e99b63f0$bcd22bd0$@hotmail.com>

Levity and comedy, by its very nature, is at the expense of *someone*.  It becomes a problem when it is levied with undue malice, in which case, I would agree with calling it out in a forum such as this.

This is not the case here.  Python and Perl are historic rival languages.  Most developers will see these comments for what they are - historic jabs between the communities.  This is the conversation that happens, mostly in jest, when members of the language communities get together.  "Your language is write only!" "Whitespace?  For structure?  HA!".  They are not ad hominem attacks of the users, but a reference to a classic - dead - argument.  I don't see (considering an objective view of the perl community, if I am honest) how this can be truly offensive to a polyglot.

-----Original Message-----
From: PSF-Community [mailto:psf-community-bounces+tritium-list=sdamon.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Erik Romijn
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2016 8:52 AM
To: PSF Community <psf-community at python.org>
Subject: Re: [PSF-Community] on perl programmers

Hello all,

I don?t mean to derail the discussion on board transparency, but I 
felt I could not let these particular comments go by:

>> I bet even Perl programmers have good intentions!
> 
> They are good at hiding it.

In my opinion, these comments are disrespectful and not inclusive.

I know how it seems fun to poke at other languages. I personally 
have written Perl code in the past, and strongly dislike it. However,
that doesn?t mean Perl programmers have any less worth. If we make 
it seem as if the Python community considers Perl programmers lesser 
people/programmers, we are making our community unwelcome to people 
that have made different technology choices, or even are unable to
make different choices.

I assume that these comments were meant as non-malicious jokes. But
that made it especially important for me to draw attention to the
effects they can have. So that we can help our community be 
inclusive to everyone :)

Erik
_______________________________________________
PSF-Community mailing list
PSF-Community at python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community


From martin.hellwig at gmail.com  Mon May 30 10:36:40 2016
From: martin.hellwig at gmail.com (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Mon, 30 May 2016 15:36:40 +0100
Subject: [PSF-Community] on perl programmers
In-Reply-To: <F33315F4-F540-4461-AE21-2F6C0D10CD83@erik.io>
References: <CADmzSSh1_oB-zPpPvFruLDypsQBcp0oPNoiq70tpZMm3nk52bA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEZAPrBbWV_G1q75rUMO73uD_GBvRMPCC+hyq821fO9k5makVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADmzSShL97eBDsh2y9yrFk9Pn0Omp2frrP==G7MtC3Aa9_CiUg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMofdRBXJr+Ca-fEQBCMNsT2OCya2GmOYRTH3cks6c6_F+0otw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1464543492.07.42647@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>
 <574B4FDA.1040204@python.org>
 <F33315F4-F540-4461-AE21-2F6C0D10CD83@erik.io>
Message-ID: <CAMWL9gUYMvmMJF=b9T287oXp8fU8JHUFVVw3AiW0Fz58Z0hwmg@mail.gmail.com>

On 30 May 2016 at 13:52, Erik Romijn <erik at erik.io> wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I don?t mean to derail the discussion on board transparency, but I
> felt I could not let these particular comments go by:
>
>>> I bet even Perl programmers have good intentions!
>>
>> They are good at hiding it.
>
> In my opinion, these comments are disrespectful and not inclusive.

I applaud your intention of assuring the community is inclusive,
something I believe is a shared opinion on this list. However the way
you have chosen to voice this raises some concerns with me. I think it
is hard to find anyone in the Python community who really believes
Python programmers are superior over Pel programmers, as much as I
doubt that you can find anyone in the Perl community that really
believe that Perl programmers are superior. Of course there will be
outliers that truly believe that, but as stated these are outliers,
and I doubt they are really part of their respective community.

The part what concerns me is that you find it necessary to speak on
behalf of the people you assume are supposedly disenfranchised, if
there are people offended by this they are very well capable of
standing up here and saying for example: "Well Perl may be a write
only language, but Python is read only and doesn't get things done!".
By choosing to speak for them, you are actually disempowering them
from speaking for themselves.

Inclusion and equality is not achieved by speaking on behalf of
others, not even by positively discrimination of groups (you are still
negatively discriminated other groups), but by removing barriers and
giving *everyone* the opportunity to voice their opinion regardless of
who/what/where/why they are. Sure this means that the most common
opinion will be heard most often, but that does not mean that uncommon
opinion are any less valid.

Don't let good intentions translate to holier-than-thou approach, or
you might as well end up as a group that censores the Life of Brian
and totally missing the (absence) of the point. The appropriate
response of being taken the piss is off is laughing if it is funny or
a raised eyebrow and in extreme cases an "O'RLY" if it isn't.

-- 
mph

From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon May 30 10:41:11 2016
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 30 May 2016 15:41:11 +0100
Subject: [PSF-Community] on perl programmers
In-Reply-To: <F33315F4-F540-4461-AE21-2F6C0D10CD83@erik.io>
References: <CADmzSSh1_oB-zPpPvFruLDypsQBcp0oPNoiq70tpZMm3nk52bA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEZAPrBbWV_G1q75rUMO73uD_GBvRMPCC+hyq821fO9k5makVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADmzSShL97eBDsh2y9yrFk9Pn0Omp2frrP==G7MtC3Aa9_CiUg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMofdRBXJr+Ca-fEQBCMNsT2OCya2GmOYRTH3cks6c6_F+0otw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1464543492.07.42647@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>
 <574B4FDA.1040204@python.org>
 <F33315F4-F540-4461-AE21-2F6C0D10CD83@erik.io>
Message-ID: <CAMofdRCmjK_8VGosGAGYLtdPZKbcHrGOtUofQ6Bi7RzHHfwNOw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 30, 2016 at 1:52 PM, Erik Romijn <erik at erik.io> wrote:

> I assume that these comments were meant as non-malicious jokes. But
> that made it especially important for me to draw attention to the
> effects they can have. So that we can help our community be
> inclusive to everyone :)
>

Particularly at this time of year, with PyCon in progress, readers might
wish to remember that without substantial help from the Perl community (who
had been organising the YAPC conferences for some time) PyCon might never
had got off the ground. Nat Torkington gave freely of his time to share his
experiences and offer helpful suggestions.

Steve

Steve Holden
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From ola at sitarska.com  Mon May 30 12:08:09 2016
From: ola at sitarska.com (Ola Sitarska)
Date: Mon, 30 May 2016 17:08:09 +0100
Subject: [PSF-Community] on perl programmers
In-Reply-To: <F33315F4-F540-4461-AE21-2F6C0D10CD83@erik.io>
References: <CADmzSSh1_oB-zPpPvFruLDypsQBcp0oPNoiq70tpZMm3nk52bA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEZAPrBbWV_G1q75rUMO73uD_GBvRMPCC+hyq821fO9k5makVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADmzSShL97eBDsh2y9yrFk9Pn0Omp2frrP==G7MtC3Aa9_CiUg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMofdRBXJr+Ca-fEQBCMNsT2OCya2GmOYRTH3cks6c6_F+0otw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1464543492.07.42647@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com> <574B4FDA.1040204@python.org>
 <F33315F4-F540-4461-AE21-2F6C0D10CD83@erik.io>
Message-ID: <CAFpnBut5VjE4L3HgYpL0U1NJJ5gZuggg0YGWA+OP52+Xa1QezA@mail.gmail.com>

I had the same exact feelings when reading that comments here. Thanks for
speaking up Erik!

On Mon, May 30, 2016 at 1:52 PM, Erik Romijn <erik at erik.io> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> I don?t mean to derail the discussion on board transparency, but I
> felt I could not let these particular comments go by:
>
> >> I bet even Perl programmers have good intentions!
> >
> > They are good at hiding it.
>
> In my opinion, these comments are disrespectful and not inclusive.
>
> I know how it seems fun to poke at other languages. I personally
> have written Perl code in the past, and strongly dislike it. However,
> that doesn?t mean Perl programmers have any less worth. If we make
> it seem as if the Python community considers Perl programmers lesser
> people/programmers, we are making our community unwelcome to people
> that have made different technology choices, or even are unable to
> make different choices.
>
> I assume that these comments were meant as non-malicious jokes. But
> that made it especially important for me to draw attention to the
> effects they can have. So that we can help our community be
> inclusive to everyone :)
>
> Erik
> _______________________________________________
> PSF-Community mailing list
> PSF-Community at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>
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From carl at personnelware.com  Mon May 30 14:23:17 2016
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Mon, 30 May 2016 13:23:17 -0500
Subject: [PSF-Community] on perl programmers
In-Reply-To: <CAFpnBut5VjE4L3HgYpL0U1NJJ5gZuggg0YGWA+OP52+Xa1QezA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADmzSSh1_oB-zPpPvFruLDypsQBcp0oPNoiq70tpZMm3nk52bA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEZAPrBbWV_G1q75rUMO73uD_GBvRMPCC+hyq821fO9k5makVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADmzSShL97eBDsh2y9yrFk9Pn0Omp2frrP==G7MtC3Aa9_CiUg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMofdRBXJr+Ca-fEQBCMNsT2OCya2GmOYRTH3cks6c6_F+0otw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1464543492.07.42647@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com> <574B4FDA.1040204@python.org>
 <F33315F4-F540-4461-AE21-2F6C0D10CD83@erik.io>
 <CAFpnBut5VjE4L3HgYpL0U1NJJ5gZuggg0YGWA+OP52+Xa1QezA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADmzSSgkV-3J3EcLEqP8_RYi3npRo=wP82PyejkM+rY6+1X3iQ@mail.gmail.com>

Meta classes are tricky.  so is meta discussion.  and whatever this is.

I think it is fine to post opinions when one "felt I could not let these
particular comments go by."

I may or may not agree with the opinion, but I do like hearing what people
think, and being reminded about undesirable behaviour isn't the end of the
world.




On Mon, May 30, 2016 at 11:08 AM, Ola Sitarska <ola at sitarska.com> wrote:

> I had the same exact feelings when reading that comments here. Thanks for
> speaking up Erik!
>
> On Mon, May 30, 2016 at 1:52 PM, Erik Romijn <erik at erik.io> wrote:
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I don?t mean to derail the discussion on board transparency, but I
>> felt I could not let these particular comments go by:
>>
>> >> I bet even Perl programmers have good intentions!
>> >
>> > They are good at hiding it.
>>
>> In my opinion, these comments are disrespectful and not inclusive.
>>
>> I know how it seems fun to poke at other languages. I personally
>> have written Perl code in the past, and strongly dislike it. However,
>> that doesn?t mean Perl programmers have any less worth. If we make
>> it seem as if the Python community considers Perl programmers lesser
>> people/programmers, we are making our community unwelcome to people
>> that have made different technology choices, or even are unable to
>> make different choices.
>>
>> I assume that these comments were meant as non-malicious jokes. But
>> that made it especially important for me to draw attention to the
>> effects they can have. So that we can help our community be
>> inclusive to everyone :)
>>
>> Erik
>> _______________________________________________
>> PSF-Community mailing list
>> PSF-Community at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> PSF-Community mailing list
> PSF-Community at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>
>


-- 
Carl K
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From ewa at python.org  Tue May 31 14:10:17 2016
From: ewa at python.org (Ewa Jodlowska)
Date: Tue, 31 May 2016 11:10:17 -0700
Subject: [PSF-Community] REMINDER: PSF Member Lunch @ PyCon
Message-ID: <CADx+GQPTP6h2n4waHCWMSaWHyc0PmZzmR=km7SdpNSYZ-sUq-Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everyone,

Just a quick reminder that today at 12:30 we are hosting a PSF Members'
Lunch at PyCon US.

   - Day/time: Tuesday May 31, 2016, 12:30pm local time
   - Location: Oregon Convention Center, Room F150-F151
   - Menu: Roasted Prawns Lunch
      - garlic potato puree, local vegetable succotash, basil cream,
      seasonal vegetables, farmer's field green salad.
      - Special dietary meals will be provided for those that request one
      in the RSVP below.
   - Agenda:
      - announcing the new board for the 2016/17 term
      - mingling with members

Best regards,

Ewa
Director of Operations
Python Software Foundation
Cell: 415-319-5237
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From annaraven at gmail.com  Tue May 31 17:22:49 2016
From: annaraven at gmail.com (Anna Ravenscroft)
Date: Tue, 31 May 2016 14:22:49 -0700
Subject: [PSF-Community] REMINDER: PSF Member Lunch @ PyCon
In-Reply-To: <CADx+GQPTP6h2n4waHCWMSaWHyc0PmZzmR=km7SdpNSYZ-sUq-Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADx+GQPTP6h2n4waHCWMSaWHyc0PmZzmR=km7SdpNSYZ-sUq-Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+nrBM-6xi18hSiVYQsUUo-aM4g6cHypd=+WYYoZ=XWvSQHRRQ@mail.gmail.com>

Ugh. Just saw this now. Sorry we couldn't make it.

On Tue, May 31, 2016 at 11:10 AM, Ewa Jodlowska <ewa at python.org> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> Just a quick reminder that today at 12:30 we are hosting a PSF Members'
> Lunch at PyCon US.
>
>    - Day/time: Tuesday May 31, 2016, 12:30pm local time
>    - Location: Oregon Convention Center, Room F150-F151
>    - Menu: Roasted Prawns Lunch
>       - garlic potato puree, local vegetable succotash, basil cream,
>       seasonal vegetables, farmer's field green salad.
>       - Special dietary meals will be provided for those that request one
>       in the RSVP below.
>    - Agenda:
>       - announcing the new board for the 2016/17 term
>       - mingling with members
>
> Best regards,
>
> Ewa
> Director of Operations
> Python Software Foundation
> Cell: 415-319-5237
>
> _______________________________________________
> PSF-Community mailing list
> PSF-Community at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>
>


-- 
cordially,
Anna
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From ewa at python.org  Tue May 31 18:22:10 2016
From: ewa at python.org (Ewa Jodlowska)
Date: Tue, 31 May 2016 15:22:10 -0700
Subject: [PSF-Community] Congratulations to the PSF 2016/17 Board of
 Directors
Message-ID: <CADx+GQPdpJH435iceEpFOqKpONdfoY-wtpumwrpdp9haLadWAQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear members,

I would like to announce the new PSF Board of Directors for the 2016/17
term!

Let us welcome:

   - Annapoornima Koppad
   - Carol Willing
   - Carrie Ann Philbin
   - Diana Clarke
   - Jackie Kazil
   - Kushal Das
   - Lorena Mesa
   - Naomi Ceder
   - Trey Hunner
   - Van Lindberg
   - Younggun Kim


Congratulations new and returning directors!!

*Note to new board directors:* As PyCon quiets down in the next few days we
will work on getting you setup on psf-board at python.org. In the meantime if
you have any questions, do not hesitate to email me.

Best regards,

Ewa
Director of Operations
Python Software Foundation
Cell: 415-319-5237
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From bernardojengwa at gmail.com  Tue May 31 20:41:16 2016
From: bernardojengwa at gmail.com (Bernard Ojengwa)
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2016 01:41:16 +0100
Subject: [PSF-Community] [PSF-Vote] Congratulations to the PSF 2016/17
 Board of Directors
In-Reply-To: <CADx+GQPdpJH435iceEpFOqKpONdfoY-wtpumwrpdp9haLadWAQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADx+GQPdpJH435iceEpFOqKpONdfoY-wtpumwrpdp9haLadWAQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPApycWb2w=Sw_RLsdWc1z7X7c+K0t3ZiQWDr_y4brWN1kN_Dg@mail.gmail.com>

Congratulations to the new board members!

I would like to inquire on the modalities/qualifications for standing or
being nominated for board membership. I can't seem to find any official
resource whiting the mail threads relating to the elections.

Regards,

On Tue, May 31, 2016 at 11:22 PM, Ewa Jodlowska <ewa at python.org> wrote:

> Dear members,
>
> I would like to announce the new PSF Board of Directors for the 2016/17
> term!
>
> Let us welcome:
>
>    - Annapoornima Koppad
>    - Carol Willing
>    - Carrie Ann Philbin
>    - Diana Clarke
>    - Jackie Kazil
>    - Kushal Das
>    - Lorena Mesa
>    - Naomi Ceder
>    - Trey Hunner
>    - Van Lindberg
>    - Younggun Kim
>
>
> Congratulations new and returning directors!!
>
> *Note to new board directors:* As PyCon quiets down in the next few days
> we will work on getting you setup on psf-board at python.org. In the
> meantime if you have any questions, do not hesitate to email me.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Ewa
> Director of Operations
> Python Software Foundation
> Cell: 415-319-5237
>
> _______________________________________________
> PSF-Vote mailing list
> PSF-Vote at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-vote
>
>


-- 
*Ojengwa, Bernard,*

*Mobile : +234(0)8037227918*
*Email : bernardojengwa at gmail.com <bernardojengwa at gmail.com>*
*Twitter : @ojengwa_ <https://twitter.com/ojengwa_> *
*Facebook : Bernard Ojengwa <https://www.facebook.com/ojengwa>*
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*LinkedIn : LinkedIn Profile <http://ng.linkedin.com/in/ojengwa/>*
*Github : Github Profile <https://www.github.com/ojengwa>*
*Bitbucket : Bitbucket Profile <http://bitbucket.org/ojengwa>*
About.me : About.me Profile <http://about.me/ojengwa>

*Note*: Privileged/Confidential information may be contained in this
message and may be subject to legal privilege. Access to this e-mail by
anyone other than the intended is unauthorized. If you are not the intended
recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you
may not use, copy, distribute or deliver to anyone this message (or any
part of its contents ) or take any action in reliance on it. In such case,
you should destroy this message, and notify me immediately. If you have
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From jwm at horde.net  Tue May 31 21:22:39 2016
From: jwm at horde.net (John Morrissey)
Date: Tue, 31 May 2016 21:22:39 -0400
Subject: [PSF-Community] Congratulations to the PSF 2016/17 Board of
 Directors
In-Reply-To: <CAPApycWb2w=Sw_RLsdWc1z7X7c+K0t3ZiQWDr_y4brWN1kN_Dg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADx+GQPdpJH435iceEpFOqKpONdfoY-wtpumwrpdp9haLadWAQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPApycWb2w=Sw_RLsdWc1z7X7c+K0t3ZiQWDr_y4brWN1kN_Dg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160601012239.GA30761@boost.horde.net>

Hi Bernard, A. Jesse Jiryu Davis wrote a good blog post for this year's
election that outlines the process and responsibilities of directors:

  http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2016/04/run-for-2016-board-of-directors.html

Best,
-john

On Wed, Jun 01, 2016 at 01:41:16AM +0100, Bernard Ojengwa wrote:
> Congratulations to the new board members!
> 
> I would like to inquire on the modalities/qualifications for standing or
> being nominated for board membership. I can't seem to find any official
> resource whiting the mail threads relating to the elections.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> On Tue, May 31, 2016 at 11:22 PM, Ewa Jodlowska <ewa at python.org> wrote:
> 
> > Dear members,
> >
> > I would like to announce the new PSF Board of Directors for the 2016/17
> > term!
> >
> > Let us welcome:
> >
> >    - Annapoornima Koppad
> >    - Carol Willing
> >    - Carrie Ann Philbin
> >    - Diana Clarke
> >    - Jackie Kazil
> >    - Kushal Das
> >    - Lorena Mesa
> >    - Naomi Ceder
> >    - Trey Hunner
> >    - Van Lindberg
> >    - Younggun Kim
> >
> >
> > Congratulations new and returning directors!!
> >
> > *Note to new board directors:* As PyCon quiets down in the next few days
> > we will work on getting you setup on psf-board at python.org. In the
> > meantime if you have any questions, do not hesitate to email me.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Ewa
> > Director of Operations
> > Python Software Foundation
> > Cell: 415-319-5237
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > PSF-Vote mailing list
> > PSF-Vote at python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-vote
> >
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> *Ojengwa, Bernard,*
> 
> *Mobile : +234(0)8037227918*
> *Email : bernardojengwa at gmail.com <bernardojengwa at gmail.com>*
> *Twitter : @ojengwa_ <https://twitter.com/ojengwa_> *
> *Facebook : Bernard Ojengwa <https://www.facebook.com/ojengwa>*
> *Google + : Bernard Ojengwa <https://www.google.com/+BernardOjengwa>*
> *LinkedIn : LinkedIn Profile <http://ng.linkedin.com/in/ojengwa/>*
> *Github : Github Profile <https://www.github.com/ojengwa>*
> *Bitbucket : Bitbucket Profile <http://bitbucket.org/ojengwa>*
> About.me : About.me Profile <http://about.me/ojengwa>
> 
> *Note*: Privileged/Confidential information may be contained in this
> message and may be subject to legal privilege. Access to this e-mail by
> anyone other than the intended is unauthorized. If you are not the intended
> recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you
> may not use, copy, distribute or deliver to anyone this message (or any
> part of its contents ) or take any action in reliance on it. In such case,
> you should destroy this message, and notify me immediately. If you have
> received this email in error, also please notify me immediately by e-mail
> or telephone and delete the e-mail from any computer.

> _______________________________________________
> PSF-Community mailing list
> PSF-Community at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community


From massimo.dipierro at gmail.com  Tue May 31 22:55:25 2016
From: massimo.dipierro at gmail.com (Massimo DiPierro)
Date: Tue, 31 May 2016 21:55:25 -0500
Subject: [PSF-Community] [PSF-Vote] Congratulations to the PSF 2016/17
 Board of Directors
In-Reply-To: <CAPApycWb2w=Sw_RLsdWc1z7X7c+K0t3ZiQWDr_y4brWN1kN_Dg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADx+GQPdpJH435iceEpFOqKpONdfoY-wtpumwrpdp9haLadWAQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPApycWb2w=Sw_RLsdWc1z7X7c+K0t3ZiQWDr_y4brWN1kN_Dg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9B9FA186-A748-4299-B08E-4183F526765E@gmail.com>

Congratulations to the new board! :-)

On May 31, 2016, at 7:41 PM, Bernard Ojengwa <bernardojengwa at gmail.com> wrote:

> Congratulations to the new board members!
> 
> I would like to inquire on the modalities/qualifications for standing or being nominated for board membership. I can't seem to find any official resource whiting the mail threads relating to the elections.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> On Tue, May 31, 2016 at 11:22 PM, Ewa Jodlowska <ewa at python.org> wrote:
> Dear members,
> 
> I would like to announce the new PSF Board of Directors for the 2016/17 term!
> 
> Let us welcome:
> Annapoornima Koppad 
> Carol Willing
> Carrie Ann Philbin
> Diana Clarke 
> Jackie Kazil
> Kushal Das
> Lorena Mesa 
> Naomi Ceder
> Trey Hunner
> Van Lindberg
> Younggun Kim
> 
> Congratulations new and returning directors!! 
> 
> Note to new board directors: As PyCon quiets down in the next few days we will work on getting you setup on psf-board at python.org. In the meantime if you have any questions, do not hesitate to email me.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Ewa
> Director of Operations
> Python Software Foundation
> Cell: 415-319-5237
> 
> _______________________________________________
> PSF-Vote mailing list
> PSF-Vote at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-vote
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Ojengwa, Bernard,
> 
> Mobile : +234(0)8037227918
> Email : bernardojengwa at gmail.com
> Twitter : @ojengwa_ 
> Facebook : Bernard Ojengwa
> Google + : Bernard Ojengwa
> LinkedIn : LinkedIn Profile
> Github : Github Profile
> Bitbucket : Bitbucket Profile
> About.me : About.me Profile
> 
> Note: Privileged/Confidential information may be contained in this message and may be subject to legal privilege. Access to this e-mail by anyone other than the intended is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you may not use, copy, distribute or deliver to anyone this message (or any part of its contents ) or take any action in reliance on it. In such case, you should destroy this message, and notify me immediately. If you have received this email in error, also please notify me immediately by e-mail or telephone and delete the e-mail from any computer. 
> _______________________________________________
> PSF-Vote mailing list
> PSF-Vote at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-vote

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