From pcurtain at gmail.com Thu Jun 4 23:21:07 2009 From: pcurtain at gmail.com (Patrick Curtain) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 14:21:07 -0700 Subject: [portland] Looking for Django help Message-ID: Hi All! I'm looking for someone to pair up with me on a Pinax / Django / Python app I'm building. Hopefully, you'll know django -cold- and can fill the gaps and help me push this thing through much quicker. If you're available during the day to work on this, all the better. Please reply off-list if possible. :) Blessings! --p -- Patrick Curtain, Husband & Father ( i also write software ) http://www.patrickcurtain.com/ 360.521.9625 From dcarter at mercycorps.org Fri Jun 5 17:12:23 2009 From: dcarter at mercycorps.org (Doug Carter) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 08:12:23 -0700 Subject: [portland] Looking for Django help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090605151223.GA8058@mercycorps.org> I'm in the same situation. I'm new to Python and Django, but not programming or webapps. I'd love to pair on some Django stuff with some experienced people. In fact I'd be willing to donote my time to a project where I could help out and learn at the same time. Any Django people out there? Doug On Thu, Jun 04, 2009 at 02:21:07PM -0700, Patrick Curtain wrote: > Hi All! > > I'm looking for someone to pair up with me on a Pinax / Django / > Python app I'm building. Hopefully, you'll know django -cold- and can > fill the gaps and help me push this thing through much quicker. > > If you're available during the day to work on this, all the better. > > Please reply off-list if possible. :) > > Blessings! > --p > > -- > Patrick Curtain, Husband & Father ( i also write software ) > http://www.patrickcurtain.com/ 360.521.9625 > _______________________________________________ > Portland mailing list > Portland at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland From brett at rdnzl.net Sat Jun 6 05:36:05 2009 From: brett at rdnzl.net (Brett Carter) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 20:36:05 -0700 Subject: [portland] Kavi is hiring! Message-ID: Just thought I'd point out my employer is hiring a senior python developer. No professional python experience required, but we're looking for somebody with 5-10 years of experience. http://www.kavi.com/about/jobs/ -Brett From pcurtain at gmail.com Mon Jun 8 21:20:43 2009 From: pcurtain at gmail.com (Patrick Curtain) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 12:20:43 -0700 Subject: [portland] django coders? Message-ID: Hi All! Just wanted to cast the net again... I'm really surprised at the lack of response. I got *no* available Python / Django coders in response to two job postings and one request here for contract developer help. That makes me wonder, is every available python and django coder happily coding away already? Or is our community so small there are only a few and they're busy? (Or did I just word it so badly no one bothered to answer?) I know one small company here in town that gave up on their two year zope/plone development effort because after 8 months of trying they couldn't find a single coder to hire. Made me sad because i was recommending they stay with open source solutions. Ended up switching to an outsourced .NET shop doing C#. (Whole 'nother story there). So, help me out, everyone. Are there really no available developers? The availability of talent for new projects is certainly one criteria for any company considering the technology to use for a startup project. I'd like to advocate using Python and Django. Blessings! --p -- Patrick Curtain, Husband & Father ( i also write software ) http://www.patrickcurtain.com/ 360.521.9625 From michael at susens-schurter.com Mon Jun 8 21:41:43 2009 From: michael at susens-schurter.com (Michael Schurter) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 12:41:43 -0700 Subject: [portland] Looking for Django help In-Reply-To: <20090605151223.GA8058@mercycorps.org> References: <20090605151223.GA8058@mercycorps.org> Message-ID: <240b71640906081241x33699e01r9b84218c0c83696f@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 8:12 AM, Doug Carter wrote: > > I'm in the same situation. > > I'm new to Python and Django, but not programming or webapps. I'd > love to pair on some Django stuff with some experienced people. In > fact I'd be willing to donote my time to a project where I could > help out and learn at the same time. > > Any Django people out there? Most definitely! Community-wise there's a low volume mailing list: http://groups.google.com/group/pdxdjango And an IRC channel: #pdxdjango on Freenode Professionally, I'll just shamelessly promote Chris Pitzer and I's web development consultancy: Lo-Fi Art[1]. Urban Airship[2] was just officially launched, and I know they're Django users. Chris & I have definitely found a *lot* more Ruby on Rails shops & freelancers in Portland than Django shops. Guess thats good news for us right? ;-) Although the community may be too small as we've heard the same complaint about finding Django devs as you mentioned someone having with Zope/Plone. Chris & I will do our best to scale, and any Django freelancers out there please contact me (off-list is probably best?)! There may be a Django Lunch tomorrow (6/9/09), check the list. Started by Michael Richardson[3] iirc. I don't make it to that nearly as often as I'd like. As for a specific project to pair on, the Django lunch or the Portland Python Users Group would be excellent places to discuss that idea further! HTH, Michael Schurter (@schmichael) michael at lofiart.com [1] http://lofiart.com/ [2] http://urbanairship.com/ [3] http://twitter.com/mtrichardson From rami at typethink.com Mon Jun 8 21:42:26 2009 From: rami at typethink.com (Rami Kassab) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 12:42:26 -0700 Subject: [portland] django coders? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <88d85d160906081242n208857ffm22998c072a6066d3@mail.gmail.com> Patrick, I run a creative web firm here in Portland called Typethink and we're a Python / Django shop primarily (we do work on other projects but majority of our work is Django). We are, as you assumed, swamped with work right now (not complaining!) but we can afford to take some more on as we're expanding. We work with the most active people in the Django community. I didn't realize that you were looking for contract developers for your Django project, which is why I failed to contact you... my apologies. Give me a call or drop me an email so we can chat about your needs. We'd love to help if we can. We just moved into the US Bancorp Tower two weeks ago so if you wanna stop by and visit our new office, let me know. All of my contact information is in my email signature. Take care! -- *Rami Kassab* - Chief Executive Officer M 503.888.8605 rami at typethink.com LinkedIn Profile *Typethink* - Creative Web Firm P 503.626.6231 F 503.626.6233 111 SW 5th Ave., Suite 1000 Portland, OR 97204 www.typethink.com On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 12:20 PM, Patrick Curtain wrote: > Hi All! > > Just wanted to cast the net again... I'm really surprised at the lack > of response. > > I got *no* available Python / Django coders in response to two job > postings and one request here for contract developer help. > > That makes me wonder, is every available python and django coder > happily coding away already? Or is our community so small there are > only a few and they're busy? (Or did I just word it so badly no one > bothered to answer?) > > I know one small company here in town that gave up on their two year > zope/plone development effort because after 8 months of trying they > couldn't find a single coder to hire. Made me sad because i was > recommending they stay with open source solutions. Ended up switching > to an outsourced .NET shop doing C#. (Whole 'nother story there). > > So, help me out, everyone. Are there really no available developers? > > The availability of talent for new projects is certainly one criteria > for any company considering the technology to use for a startup > project. I'd like to advocate using Python and Django. > > Blessings! > --p > > > -- > Patrick Curtain, Husband & Father ( i also write software ) > http://www.patrickcurtain.com/ 360.521.9625 > _______________________________________________ > Portland mailing list > Portland at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From python at dylanreinhardt.com Mon Jun 8 21:43:31 2009 From: python at dylanreinhardt.com (Dylan Reinhardt) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 12:43:31 -0700 Subject: [portland] django coders? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4c645a720906081243i722bec10h265037326aca8582@mail.gmail.com> Yeah, that sums up the problem nicely. We're in a very interesting spot with Python right now. It's not difficult to sell organizations on using Python, but there simply aren't enough experienced people to cover the amount of work that would create. This lack of labor leads many thoughtful companies *not* to choose Python... which means that there are fewer Python job offerings and a lowered perception that Python skills are worth developing. We've been stuck in this cycle for at least five years now. IMO, Python needs to develop more *supply* of talent before there's going to be significantly more demand... but that's a tough sell for the people whose skills are being developed as potentially excess capacity. If I'm way off base here and there are a bunch of people here who can't find jobs, please say something. I would guess we could get quite a few opportunities posted here if there is actually talent available. $.02, Dylan On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 12:20 PM, Patrick Curtain wrote: > Hi All! > > Just wanted to cast the net again... I'm really surprised at the lack > of response. > > I got *no* available Python / Django coders in response to two job > postings and one request here for contract developer help. > > That makes me wonder, is every available python and django coder > happily coding away already? Or is our community so small there are > only a few and they're busy? (Or did I just word it so badly no one > bothered to answer?) > > I know one small company here in town that gave up on their two year > zope/plone development effort because after 8 months of trying they > couldn't find a single coder to hire. Made me sad because i was > recommending they stay with open source solutions. Ended up switching > to an outsourced .NET shop doing C#. (Whole 'nother story there). > > So, help me out, everyone. Are there really no available developers? > > The availability of talent for new projects is certainly one criteria > for any company considering the technology to use for a startup > project. I'd like to advocate using Python and Django. > > Blessings! > --p > > > -- > Patrick Curtain, Husband & Father ( i also write software ) > http://www.patrickcurtain.com/ 360.521.9625 > _______________________________________________ > Portland mailing list > Portland at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From adam at therobots.org Mon Jun 8 21:45:44 2009 From: adam at therobots.org (Adam Lowry) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 12:45:44 -0700 Subject: [portland] django coders? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 12:20 PM, Patrick Curtain wrote: > Hi All! > > Just wanted to cast the net again... I'm really surprised at the lack > of response. > > I got *no* available Python / Django coders in response to two job > postings and one request here for contract developer help. > > That makes me wonder, is every available python and django coder > happily coding away already? ?Or is our community so small there are > only a few and they're busy? (Or did I just word it so badly no one > bothered to answer?) I didn't see the job posting, but you didn't mention contract or job in your email, just help. I think a lot of people took it (myself included) that you had a hobby project you wanted help on. If that were the case, more information or a link might have helped. If it's contract work you're looking for, being a bit more direct might help. There are a lot of people doing Python in town, but many are employed full time and several of the contractors have a bit of a queue. If you'd like pointers to particular people, hit me off list and I might be able to help. > I know one small company here in town that gave up on their two year > zope/plone development effort because after 8 months of trying they > couldn't find a single coder to hire. Made me sad because i was > recommending they stay with open source solutions. ?Ended up switching > to an outsourced .NET shop doing C#. ?(Whole 'nother story there). I don't know about that company; could be they searched wrong, people weren't interested in the job, or if they required Zope/Plone experience, the pool of local devs is smaller. Add to that that many Python devs don't want to do Plone work if they can help it and that might be your answer. Adam From michael at susens-schurter.com Mon Jun 8 21:51:04 2009 From: michael at susens-schurter.com (Michael Schurter) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 12:51:04 -0700 Subject: [portland] django coders? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <240b71640906081251w416d8056wffc500232a90c7b1@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 12:20 PM, Patrick Curtain wrote: > Hi All! > > Just wanted to cast the net again... I'm really surprised at the lack > of response. > > I got *no* available Python / Django coders in response to two job > postings and one request here for contract developer help. > > That makes me wonder, is every available python and django coder > happily coding away already? ?Or is our community so small there are > only a few and they're busy? (Or did I just word it so badly no one > bothered to answer?) I replied off-list but for the sake of openness I should mention I co-founded Lo-Fi Art, LLC a (mostly Django) Python webdev consultancy here in Portland. June is quite busy for us as well, and I'm glad to hear we're not alone in that regard! Michael Schurter (@schmichael) michael at lofiart.com http://lofiart.com (Forgive our bare-bones website. Pesky client work always gets in the way of internal projects. ;-) ) From rami at typethink.com Mon Jun 8 21:51:18 2009 From: rami at typethink.com (Rami Kassab) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 12:51:18 -0700 Subject: [portland] django coders? In-Reply-To: <4c645a720906081243i722bec10h265037326aca8582@mail.gmail.com> References: <4c645a720906081243i722bec10h265037326aca8582@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <88d85d160906081251v4be7ca68h8726ea03944a06ec@mail.gmail.com> Personally, our experience with Python has been decent thus far. We are forced to work with many contractors across the states because of the lack of available Python coders here in Oregon. Although, the ones we do find (predominately in Eugene believe it or not) we do prioritize working with. I agree in that a development shop cannot ONLY offer Python development because it's difficult to find the right talent for that but Python as a language and Django as a framework is becoming increasingly popular and easier for us to sell. We've succeeded in switching many companies we work with over to Python and Django... luckily that's due to our ability to sell the benefits of Python. We also managed to bring on the most outspoken person on the Django IRC channel as a partner of the firm. He's been working with Django since the beginning and is well connected to many Django developers through IRC. They look to him for technical support with the framework. This strategic hire has helped us avoid running the risk of not being able to find the right talent. Nonetheless, Dylan is very correct. Python needs to market itself better!!! -- *Rami Kassab* - Chief Executive Officer M 503.888.8605 rami at typethink.com LinkedIn Profile *Typethink* - Creative Web Firm P 503.626.6231 F 503.626.6233 111 SW 5th Ave., Suite 1000 Portland, OR 97204 www.typethink.com On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 12:43 PM, Dylan Reinhardt wrote: > Yeah, that sums up the problem nicely. > > We're in a very interesting spot with Python right now. It's not difficult > to sell organizations on using Python, but there simply aren't enough > experienced people to cover the amount of work that would create. This > lack > of labor leads many thoughtful companies *not* to choose Python... which > means that there are fewer Python job offerings and a lowered perception > that Python skills are worth developing. We've been stuck in this cycle > for > at least five years now. > > IMO, Python needs to develop more *supply* of talent before there's going > to > be significantly more demand... but that's a tough sell for the people > whose > skills are being developed as potentially excess capacity. > > If I'm way off base here and there are a bunch of people here who can't > find > jobs, please say something. I would guess we could get quite a few > opportunities posted here if there is actually talent available. > > $.02, > > Dylan > > > > On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 12:20 PM, Patrick Curtain > wrote: > > > Hi All! > > > > Just wanted to cast the net again... I'm really surprised at the lack > > of response. > > > > I got *no* available Python / Django coders in response to two job > > postings and one request here for contract developer help. > > > > That makes me wonder, is every available python and django coder > > happily coding away already? Or is our community so small there are > > only a few and they're busy? (Or did I just word it so badly no one > > bothered to answer?) > > > > I know one small company here in town that gave up on their two year > > zope/plone development effort because after 8 months of trying they > > couldn't find a single coder to hire. Made me sad because i was > > recommending they stay with open source solutions. Ended up switching > > to an outsourced .NET shop doing C#. (Whole 'nother story there). > > > > So, help me out, everyone. Are there really no available developers? > > > > The availability of talent for new projects is certainly one criteria > > for any company considering the technology to use for a startup > > project. I'd like to advocate using Python and Django. > > > > Blessings! > > --p > > > > > > -- > > Patrick Curtain, Husband & Father ( i also write software ) > > http://www.patrickcurtain.com/ 360.521.9625 > > _______________________________________________ > > Portland mailing list > > Portland at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.python.org/pipermail/portland/attachments/20090608/f4eab0ea/attachment.htm > > > _______________________________________________ > Portland mailing list > Portland at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirby.urner at gmail.com Tue Jun 9 09:19:22 2009 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 00:19:22 -0700 Subject: [portland] Checking in (Urner) Message-ID: Greetings PPUGs (woof): I'll be at a sister engineering type meeting this evening @ ISEPP (isepp.org), attending a lecture on "Netness" by Sheldon Renan. We're hoping Lindsey Walker, Republic of Perl, will be joining us -- also more here in Windmillville down the road. [0] Re PSF business, registering the trademark in various countries, e.g. Palestine, Philippines also copyrighting Python docs in German, have been among the issues for processing. Pinoy Users Group has developed a sweet logo. Not minuting actions taken (there's a web page), plus I'm not on the board, just talking about message traffic 'n sharing with me user group in Portland, yar.[1] Congrats to Tim Bauman, completing Central Catholic, whom I mentored through Saturday Academy back when, as an 8th grader, he customized a Pybloxsom blog for Father Bob, loading different CSS based on the liturgical calendar as well as USA secular, e.g. it'd "reskin" for both July 4 and Easter, all running in mod_python on a server he ran from his basement, way cool.[2] He also sold T-shirts at Barcamp @ Cubespace that time. I suggested on Google Coworker list (about Cubespace type environments, springing up all over) that checking one's generic local Red Cross website, looking for room for improvement, might be something to cowork about, in case some trust or foundation was funding something broken and not realizing it (common enough, in Lower48 especially i.e. "homeland security" is mostly an empty pipe dream eh?). I keep wanting to drum up support for monthly free Python Briefing, geared to the public but also an excuse to see Cubespace, maybe drum up more business? PPUGers might even wanna organize it, rotating cast, with plenty ready to go if you're on, or roll your own if that's your preference. The same people could take it to schools on invitation e.g. picture Michelle showing off Python to small group of future NGO executives @ Concordia College or some scenario like that (could be paid in those cases). Just a thought, based on experiencing free computer lectures, likewise open to public, in New Jersey long ago. Kirby [0] Windmillville is a synonym for Python Nation in being "that place with the windmills" (i.e. Dutch HQS). You can see from the Perl flag how close we are (neighbors). http://layangan.com/asfik/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/prp.png (yes, sometimes other objects in background, same camel from different angles duh). http://mail.python.org/pipermail/portland/2009-May/000693.html (re Lindsey). [1] http://controlroom.blogspot.com/2009/06/cooking-show.html [2] more on edu-sig, using Tim's project as an example of what user group talent scouts might refer back to Vern, our "watcher" between Pycons http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/2009-June/date.html (Example Poster thread) From igal at pragmaticraft.com Tue Jun 9 17:19:42 2009 From: igal at pragmaticraft.com (Igal Koshevoy) Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 08:19:42 -0700 Subject: [portland] It's the End of CubeSpace as We Know It... Message-ID: <4A2E7D8E.5060502@pragmaticraft.com> Dear Pythoneers, Is there a meeting tonight?* If so, it's our last one at CubeSpace. I'm very sad to forward along this message, but CubeSpace is shutting down. They've been the hub of our fledgling tech communities. It's the place where many of us first met, hung out, and spent many pleasant hours learning from each other. It's a place that helped incubate many new friendships, projects and groups. If you have any job leads for the wonderful, capable and dedicated CubeSpace owners and staff, please forward them on. If you have suggestions on where to move the meetings, please share you ideas. -igal PS: If meetings aren't announced on the list or published to Calagator, it's hard to tell. ### http://cubespacepdx.com/node/2015 Friends, It is with deep sadness that Eva and I announce that CubeSpace will be closing its doors on Friday, June 12, 2009. During the past two weeks of negotiations, we have very much appreciated the support from all of you. Yet when it came down to it, we realized that even though business has been up and the outpouring of support from the community has been so great, we do not have the resources to keep CubeSpace open. For roughly three years, Eva and I have poured ourselves into CubeSpace. We have poured in all of our financial resources, and have never taken any salary. We have poured the vast majority of our energy into CubeSpace. We have poured most of our attention into CubeSpace. Now, we have no more to put in. We are tired and broke, and it is now time for us to move on. We do not consider CubeSpace a failure. Rather, we succeeded in fostering a meaningful community that supports each other in hard times and celebrates together in good times. We feel privileged to have been a part of this community, and look forward to participating in other ways in the years to come. Many of you have asked what you can do to help. Eva and I have been unable to answer, until now. What we need now are jobs. We have mountains of debt, no assets, and are facing the possibility of personal bankruptcy. Another piece of help is not for us, but for the community. We know that the closing of CubeSpace will have a negative impact on the community. CubeSpace has served as a central meeting place. It has served as a clubhouse. It has been a default place to hold community events. We now need others in the community to step up and offer up meeting places. Eva and I will continue to contribute our time and energy to community events, but we will no longer be able to contribute the space. It may take some creative thinking, but I believe that as a community we will survive and continue to join together at events if other members of the corporate community will step up to offer space to host the many events CubeSpace has been hosting. Finally, please be aware that Eva and I need your emotional support as we go through this tough period. As I said in the beginning, we are very tired, emotionally drained and sad. Please do not tell us what we might have done better. Trust us, we know far too well all the mistakes we?ve made. Now is not when we want to rehash them. We welcome your support, your friendship and your caring. We would love suggestions for our future. But right now, we aren?t in a good position to be second-guessing past decisions. Thank you all so much for being a part of our lives these past years, David and Eva From kirby.urner at gmail.com Tue Jun 9 18:54:49 2009 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 09:54:49 -0700 Subject: [portland] It's the End of CubeSpace as We Know It... In-Reply-To: <4A2E7D8E.5060502@pragmaticraft.com> References: <4A2E7D8E.5060502@pragmaticraft.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 8:19 AM, Igal Koshevoy wrote: > Dear Pythoneers, > > Is there a meeting tonight?* If so, it's our last one at CubeSpace. > Meetup said there was, and I became reliant on that even over Calagator (still am in some ways), apologies for neglecting the obvious. > I'm very sad to forward along this message, but CubeSpace is shutting > down. They've been the hub of our fledgling tech communities. It's the > place where many of us first met, hung out, and spent many pleasant > hours learning from each other. It's a place that helped incubate many > new friendships, projects and groups. Yeah this is certainly sad. Of all the venues I've experienced for PORPIG (now PPUG), Cubespace was by far the most conducive to productivity, great meetings. Top of the Fox Tower is runner up, but wasn't as friendly, didn't have that ambiance of being a FOSS HQS more generally, which Cubespace certainly had, even though many non-FOSSers used it too. > > If you have any job leads for the wonderful, capable and dedicated > CubeSpace owners and staff, please forward them on. > Portland needs coworking zones I reckon and losing Cubespace leaves a huge void to fill. I can't imagine the expertise of this staff would be anything but highly valuable and sought after so I hope I'm right about Portland's needs. But then I'm the guy suggesting a scoreboard style mini-map for near OMSI, showing global data 'n stuff, never happened. ^^ That was the 1980s, OMSI still by the Zoo back then right? Anyway, only some of my futurism came true (the hypertext kiosks at Providence -- Oregonian did a whole long article on those, Metro section I think, before MOSAIC or Netscape -- some lawyers took me out to lunch after that article, one guy pounding the table saying "I need to get *paid* to learn this stuff" -- gotta love those lawyers, always so entitled in ways convenient for them ;-D. > If you have suggestions on where to move the meetings, please > share you ideas. > > -igal > I'm uploading pictures of Urban Grind this morning for the benefit of Terry Bristol (ISEPP prez) but could see maybe using it for PPUG sometime? They have a cool board room with a suspended stone table in case we need to decide anything heavy. Maybe PSU? http://www.flickr.com/photos/17157315 at N00/sets/72157619496938336/ (location scouting, mostly local) http://www.flickr.com/photos/17157315 at N00/3608303721/in/set-72157619496938336/ (suspended stone table) I'll also contact Joyce Cresswell, CEO of Saturday Academy, as they're always booking rooms. Given our wifi and projection needs, options are limited. Thanks igal, for notifying this groups and Admirers of Javascript, maybe some others I'm not a part of, of this historic development. I mentioned this in passing to PSF with a link back to this archive so Pythonistas could watch over our shoulder as Portland struggles to sustain its identity as FOSS-friendly and/or capable (count Patrick a skeptic **). Looking forward to OS Bridge (then Esozone, an unconference this year, learning from geeks). Kirby ^^ Oregonian, 1980s ("hypertext kiosks" was a different article, same author): http://coffeeshopsnet.blogspot.com/2009/02/in-news.html ** Patrick is someone igal and I both know, came to PPUG once, recruiting for his Chicago company (since standardizing to Python for a lot of work): http://worldgame.blogspot.com/2005/10/market-research.html (same guy who introduced Lindsey to Wanderers e.g. me). > PS: If meetings aren't announced on the list or published to Calagator, > it's hard to tell. > > ### > > http://cubespacepdx.com/node/2015 > > Friends, > > It is with deep sadness that Eva and I announce that CubeSpace will be > closing its doors on Friday, June 12, 2009. During the past two weeks > of negotiations, we have very much appreciated the support from all of > you. Yet when it came down to it, we realized that even though > business has been up and the outpouring of support from the community > has been so great, we do not have the resources to ?keep CubeSpace > open. > > For roughly three years, Eva and I have poured ourselves into > CubeSpace. We have poured in all of our financial resources, and have > never taken any salary. We have poured the vast majority of our energy > into CubeSpace. We have poured most of our attention into CubeSpace. > Now, we have no more to put in. We are tired and broke, and it is now > time for us to move on. > > We do not consider CubeSpace a failure. Rather, we succeeded in > fostering a meaningful community that supports each other in hard > times and celebrates together in good times. We feel privileged to > have been a part of this community, and look forward to participating > in other ways in the years to come. > > Many of you have asked what you can do to help. Eva and I have been > unable to answer, until now. What we need now are jobs. We have > mountains of debt, no assets, and are facing the possibility of > personal bankruptcy. > > Another piece of help is not for us, but for the community. We know > that the closing of CubeSpace will have a negative impact on the > community. CubeSpace has served as a central meeting place. It has > served as a clubhouse. It has been a default place to hold community > events. We now need others in the community to step up and offer up > meeting places. Eva and I will continue to contribute our time and > energy to community events, but we will no longer be able to > contribute the space. It may take some creative thinking, but I > believe that as a community we will survive and continue to join > together at events if other members of the corporate community will > step up to offer space to host the many events CubeSpace has been > hosting. > > Finally, please be aware that Eva and I need your emotional support as > we go through this tough period. As I said in the beginning, we are > very tired, emotionally drained and sad. Please do not tell us what we > might have done better. Trust us, we know far too well all the > mistakes we?ve made. Now is not when > we want to rehash them. We welcome your support, your friendship and > your caring. We would love suggestions for our future. But right now, > we aren?t in a good position to be second-guessing past decisions. > > Thank you all so much for being a part of our lives these past years, > > David and Eva > _______________________________________________ > Portland mailing list > Portland at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland > From akf at aracnet.com Tue Jun 9 18:49:43 2009 From: akf at aracnet.com (Amy K. Farrell) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 09:49:43 -0700 Subject: [portland] [info@meetup.com: Reminder: "Portland Pythoneers June Meetup" is tomorrow, Tuesday, June 9, 2009 7:00 PM!] Message-ID: <20090609164942.GA28248@aracnet.com> Yes, there is python users' group meeting today. This reminder came to me via the meetup group. As usual, (I have a schedule conflict.) - Amy ----- Forwarded message from Meetup Reminder ----- From: Meetup Reminder To: akf at aracnet.com Subject: Reminder: "Portland Pythoneers June Meetup" is tomorrow, Tuesday, June 9, 2009 7:00 PM! X-MEETUP-MESG-ID: 164307716 X-MEETUP-RECIP-ID: 5596745 X-MEETUP-TRACK: nr1p X-spasm-sender-IP: 64.90.170.35 X-spasm-sender-host: mail5.meetup.com X-spasm-rcpt: akf at aracnet.com Just a quick reminder that Portland Pythoneers has a Meetup tomorrow. Please take a minute to RSVP now: http://www.meetup.com/pdxpython/calendar/10401172/t/nr1p_rt What: Portland Pythoneers June Meetup When: Tuesday, June 9, 2009 7:00 PM Who: 9 Yes / 6 Maybe Where: CubeSpace 622 SE Grand Ave Portland OR 97214 503-206-3500 To RSVP "Yes", click here: http://www.meetup.com/pdxpython/calendar/10401172/rsvp/t/nr1p_yes/?response=3 To RSVP "Maybe", click here: http://www.meetup.com/pdxpython/calendar/10401172/rsvp/t/nr1p_myb/?response=1 To RSVP "No", click here: http://www.meetup.com/pdxpython/calendar/10401172/rsvp/t/nr1p_no/?response=2 To see who's coming and to RSVP: http://www.meetup.com/pdxpython/calendar/10401172/t/nr1p_rt This month's tentative schedule: * Michel's Monthly Module ... email me to volunteer :) * Joel Bernstein will talk about screen scraping tools * Lightning talks!! 5 minutes of whatever pythonic-ish thing you want to share. If you have something you'd like to share this month, please let us know! Join us on our python.org mailing list and on #pdxpython on Freenode. All are welcome! PDX Python on Twitter Portland Python Web Site -- Add *info at meetup.com* to your address book to receive all your Meetup emails. To unsubscribe or update your Meetup email preferences, visit your account page: http://www.meetup.com/account/comm/ Questions? You can email Meetup Support at: support at meetup.com Meetup Support, 632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA ----- End forwarded message ----- -- A.K. Farrell From akf at aracnet.com Tue Jun 9 18:52:19 2009 From: akf at aracnet.com (Amy K. Farrell) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 09:52:19 -0700 Subject: [portland] [info@meetup.com: Reminder: "Portland Pythoneers June Meetup" is tomorrow, Tuesday, June 9, 2009 7:00 PM!] Message-ID: <20090609165219.GB28248@aracnet.com> Yes, there is a python user group meeting tonight. Someone else asked last night also. There are probably a handful of folks who are tracking this mailing list and not the Meetup group. (Sadly, I will miss this one, as usual.) - Amy ----- Forwarded message from Meetup Reminder ----- From: Meetup Reminder To: akf at aracnet.com Subject: Reminder: "Portland Pythoneers June Meetup" is tomorrow, Tuesday, June 9, 2009 7:00 PM! X-MEETUP-MESG-ID: 164307716 X-MEETUP-RECIP-ID: 5596745 X-MEETUP-TRACK: nr1p X-spasm-sender-IP: 64.90.170.35 X-spasm-sender-host: mail5.meetup.com X-spasm-rcpt: akf at aracnet.com Just a quick reminder that Portland Pythoneers has a Meetup tomorrow. Please take a minute to RSVP now: http://www.meetup.com/pdxpython/calendar/10401172/t/nr1p_rt What: Portland Pythoneers June Meetup When: Tuesday, June 9, 2009 7:00 PM Who: 9 Yes / 6 Maybe Where: CubeSpace 622 SE Grand Ave Portland OR 97214 503-206-3500 To RSVP "Yes", click here: http://www.meetup.com/pdxpython/calendar/10401172/rsvp/t/nr1p_yes/?response=3 To RSVP "Maybe", click here: http://www.meetup.com/pdxpython/calendar/10401172/rsvp/t/nr1p_myb/?response=1 To RSVP "No", click here: http://www.meetup.com/pdxpython/calendar/10401172/rsvp/t/nr1p_no/?response=2 To see who's coming and to RSVP: http://www.meetup.com/pdxpython/calendar/10401172/t/nr1p_rt This month's tentative schedule: * Michel's Monthly Module ... email me to volunteer :) * Joel Bernstein will talk about screen scraping tools * Lightning talks!! 5 minutes of whatever pythonic-ish thing you want to share. If you have something you'd like to share this month, please let us know! Join us on our python.org mailing list and on #pdxpython on Freenode. All are welcome! PDX Python on Twitter Portland Python Web Site -- Add *info at meetup.com* to your address book to receive all your Meetup emails. To unsubscribe or update your Meetup email preferences, visit your account page: http://www.meetup.com/account/comm/ Questions? You can email Meetup Support at: support at meetup.com Meetup Support, 632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA ----- End forwarded message ----- -- A.K. Farrell From pcurtain at gmail.com Tue Jun 9 19:30:21 2009 From: pcurtain at gmail.com (Patrick Curtain) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 10:30:21 -0700 Subject: [portland] [info@meetup.com: Reminder: "Portland Pythoneers June Meetup" is tomorrow, Tuesday, June 9, 2009 7:00 PM!] In-Reply-To: <20090609164942.GA28248@aracnet.com> References: <20090609164942.GA28248@aracnet.com> Message-ID: Likewise! I'd love to meet but I'm playing for a speaker in Camas tonight: http://www.lifewithoutlimbs.org/ See you guys next month! --p On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 9:49 AM, Amy K. Farrell wrote: > Yes, there is python users' group meeting today. This reminder came to > me via the meetup group. As usual, (I have a schedule conflict.) > > ?- Amy > > ----- Forwarded message from Meetup Reminder ----- > > From: Meetup Reminder > To: akf at aracnet.com > Subject: Reminder: "Portland Pythoneers June Meetup" is tomorrow, Tuesday, > ?June 9, 2009 7:00 PM! > X-MEETUP-MESG-ID: 164307716 > X-MEETUP-RECIP-ID: 5596745 > X-MEETUP-TRACK: nr1p > X-spasm-sender-IP: 64.90.170.35 > X-spasm-sender-host: mail5.meetup.com > X-spasm-rcpt: akf at aracnet.com > > Just a quick reminder that Portland Pythoneers has a Meetup tomorrow. > > Please take a minute to RSVP now: > http://www.meetup.com/pdxpython/calendar/10401172/t/nr1p_rt > > What: Portland Pythoneers June Meetup > > When: Tuesday, June 9, 2009 7:00 PM > > Who: 9 Yes / 6 Maybe > > Where: CubeSpace > 622 SE Grand Ave > Portland OR 97214 > 503-206-3500 > > > To RSVP "Yes", click here: > http://www.meetup.com/pdxpython/calendar/10401172/rsvp/t/nr1p_yes/?response=3 > > To RSVP "Maybe", click here: > http://www.meetup.com/pdxpython/calendar/10401172/rsvp/t/nr1p_myb/?response=1 > > To RSVP "No", click here: > http://www.meetup.com/pdxpython/calendar/10401172/rsvp/t/nr1p_no/?response=2 > > To see who's coming and to RSVP: > http://www.meetup.com/pdxpython/calendar/10401172/t/nr1p_rt > > This month's tentative schedule: > > * Michel's Monthly Module ... email me to volunteer :) > * Joel Bernstein will talk about screen scraping tools > * Lightning talks!! 5 minutes of whatever pythonic-ish thing you want to share. > > If you have something you'd like to share this month, please let us know! > > Join us on our python.org mailing list and on #pdxpython on Freenode. All are welcome! > > PDX Python on Twitter > > Portland Python Web Site > > > > -- > > Add *info at meetup.com* to your address book to receive all your Meetup emails. > > To unsubscribe or update your Meetup email preferences, visit your account page: > http://www.meetup.com/account/comm/ > > Questions? You can email Meetup Support at: support at meetup.com > > Meetup Support, 632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > -- > A.K. Farrell > _______________________________________________ > Portland mailing list > Portland at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland > -- Patrick Curtain, Husband & Father ( i also write software ) http://www.patrickcurtain.com/ 360.521.9625 From rami at typethink.com Tue Jun 9 21:16:15 2009 From: rami at typethink.com (Rami Kassab) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 12:16:15 -0700 Subject: [portland] [info@meetup.com: Reminder: "Portland Pythoneers June Meetup" is tomorrow, Tuesday, June 9, 2009 7:00 PM!] In-Reply-To: References: <20090609164942.GA28248@aracnet.com> Message-ID: <88d85d160906091216v163c398ej93ccb8af899d0c39@mail.gmail.com> I'll be there tonight. I've been bad with attending lately due to scheduling conflicts and lots of travel :( Any ideas on a new place to host the monthly meetings now? I'm very sad to see CubeSpace go away... it was indeed a very conducive environment. -- *Rami Kassab* - Chief Executive Officer M 503.888.8605 rami at typethink.com LinkedIn Profile *Typethink* - Creative Web Firm P 503.626.6231 F 503.626.6233 111 SW 5th Ave., Suite 1000 Portland, OR 97204 www.typethink.com On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 10:30 AM, Patrick Curtain wrote: > Likewise! I'd love to meet but I'm playing for a speaker in Camas tonight: > > http://www.lifewithoutlimbs.org/ > > See you guys next month! > --p > > On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 9:49 AM, Amy K. Farrell wrote: > > Yes, there is python users' group meeting today. This reminder came to > > me via the meetup group. As usual, (I have a schedule conflict.) > > > > - Amy > > > > ----- Forwarded message from Meetup Reminder ----- > > > > From: Meetup Reminder > > To: akf at aracnet.com > > Subject: Reminder: "Portland Pythoneers June Meetup" is tomorrow, > Tuesday, > > June 9, 2009 7:00 PM! > > X-MEETUP-MESG-ID: 164307716 > > X-MEETUP-RECIP-ID: 5596745 > > X-MEETUP-TRACK: nr1p > > X-spasm-sender-IP: 64.90.170.35 > > X-spasm-sender-host: mail5.meetup.com > > X-spasm-rcpt: akf at aracnet.com > > > > Just a quick reminder that Portland Pythoneers has a Meetup tomorrow. > > > > Please take a minute to RSVP now: > > http://www.meetup.com/pdxpython/calendar/10401172/t/nr1p_rt > > > > What: Portland Pythoneers June Meetup > > > > When: Tuesday, June 9, 2009 7:00 PM > > > > Who: 9 Yes / 6 Maybe > > > > Where: CubeSpace > > 622 SE Grand Ave > > Portland OR 97214 > > 503-206-3500 > > > > > > To RSVP "Yes", click here: > > > http://www.meetup.com/pdxpython/calendar/10401172/rsvp/t/nr1p_yes/?response=3 > > > > To RSVP "Maybe", click here: > > > http://www.meetup.com/pdxpython/calendar/10401172/rsvp/t/nr1p_myb/?response=1 > > > > To RSVP "No", click here: > > > http://www.meetup.com/pdxpython/calendar/10401172/rsvp/t/nr1p_no/?response=2 > > > > To see who's coming and to RSVP: > > http://www.meetup.com/pdxpython/calendar/10401172/t/nr1p_rt > > > > This month's tentative schedule: > > > > * Michel's Monthly Module ... email me to volunteer :) > > * Joel Bernstein will talk about screen scraping tools > > * Lightning talks!! 5 minutes of whatever pythonic-ish thing you want to > share. > > > > If you have something you'd like to share this month, please let us know! > > > > Join us on our python.org mailing list and on #pdxpython on Freenode. > All are welcome! > > > > PDX Python on Twitter > > > > Portland Python Web Site > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Add *info at meetup.com* to your address book to receive all your Meetup > emails. > > > > To unsubscribe or update your Meetup email preferences, visit your > account page: > > http://www.meetup.com/account/comm/ > > > > Questions? You can email Meetup Support at: support at meetup.com > > > > Meetup Support, 632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA > > > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > > > -- > > A.K. Farrell > > _______________________________________________ > > Portland mailing list > > Portland at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland > > > > > > -- > Patrick Curtain, Husband & Father ( i also write software ) > http://www.patrickcurtain.com/ 360.521.9625 > _______________________________________________ > Portland mailing list > Portland at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From michelle at pdxpython.org Tue Jun 9 22:12:10 2009 From: michelle at pdxpython.org (michelle rowley) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 13:12:10 -0700 Subject: [portland] [info@meetup.com: Reminder: "Portland Pythoneers June Meetup" is tomorrow, Tuesday, June 9, 2009 7:00 PM!] In-Reply-To: <88d85d160906091216v163c398ej93ccb8af899d0c39@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090609164942.GA28248@aracnet.com> <88d85d160906091216v163c398ej93ccb8af899d0c39@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <813046e40906091312w440a8502re4a9032e4a045bcb@mail.gmail.com> Hey all, Yes, there will be a Python meeting tonight at CubeSpace as scheduled. We'll be hearing from Joel Bernstein about screen scraping tools, Michel Pelletier will present Michel's Monthly Module (itertools!), and then we're going to open the floor for lightning talks! Please come and give us 5 minutes of insight into any Python-ish-related topic you'd like. After all that, we'll head out for tasty beverage. On another (sadder) note, as was posted earlier today to the list by Igal, tonight will be our last meeting at CubeSpace as they're going to be closing their doors at the end of the week. CubeSpace has been wonderful to sponsor us since we started meeting again in 2007, and I think David and Eva would love to hear how much we've appreciated their generosity and support for the last 2 years. So, if you happen see them around at CubeSpace tonight, please let them know how awesome they are! See you at 7:00, Michelle On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 12:16 PM, Rami Kassab wrote: > I'll be there tonight. I've been bad with attending lately due to scheduling > conflicts and lots of travel :( > Any ideas on a new place to host the monthly meetings now? I'm very sad to > see CubeSpace go away... it was indeed a very conducive environment. > > -- > *Rami Kassab* - Chief Executive Officer > M 503.888.8605 > rami at typethink.com > LinkedIn Profile > > *Typethink* - Creative Web Firm > P 503.626.6231 > F 503.626.6233 > 111 SW 5th Ave., Suite 1000 > Portland, OR 97204 > www.typethink.com > > > On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 10:30 AM, Patrick Curtain wrote: > >> Likewise! ?I'd love to meet but I'm playing for a speaker in Camas tonight: >> >> http://www.lifewithoutlimbs.org/ >> >> See you guys next month! >> --p >> >> On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 9:49 AM, Amy K. Farrell wrote: >> > Yes, there is python users' group meeting today. This reminder came to >> > me via the meetup group. As usual, (I have a schedule conflict.) >> > >> > ?- Amy >> > >> > ----- Forwarded message from Meetup Reminder ----- >> > >> > From: Meetup Reminder >> > To: akf at aracnet.com >> > Subject: Reminder: "Portland Pythoneers June Meetup" is tomorrow, >> Tuesday, >> > ?June 9, 2009 7:00 PM! >> > X-MEETUP-MESG-ID: 164307716 >> > X-MEETUP-RECIP-ID: 5596745 >> > X-MEETUP-TRACK: nr1p >> > X-spasm-sender-IP: 64.90.170.35 >> > X-spasm-sender-host: mail5.meetup.com >> > X-spasm-rcpt: akf at aracnet.com >> > >> > Just a quick reminder that Portland Pythoneers has a Meetup tomorrow. >> > >> > Please take a minute to RSVP now: >> > http://www.meetup.com/pdxpython/calendar/10401172/t/nr1p_rt >> > >> > What: Portland Pythoneers June Meetup >> > >> > When: Tuesday, June 9, 2009 7:00 PM >> > >> > Who: 9 Yes / 6 Maybe >> > >> > Where: CubeSpace >> > 622 SE Grand Ave >> > Portland OR 97214 >> > 503-206-3500 >> > >> > >> > To RSVP "Yes", click here: >> > >> http://www.meetup.com/pdxpython/calendar/10401172/rsvp/t/nr1p_yes/?response=3 >> > >> > To RSVP "Maybe", click here: >> > >> http://www.meetup.com/pdxpython/calendar/10401172/rsvp/t/nr1p_myb/?response=1 >> > >> > To RSVP "No", click here: >> > >> http://www.meetup.com/pdxpython/calendar/10401172/rsvp/t/nr1p_no/?response=2 >> > >> > To see who's coming and to RSVP: >> > http://www.meetup.com/pdxpython/calendar/10401172/t/nr1p_rt >> > >> > This month's tentative schedule: >> > >> > * Michel's Monthly Module ... email me to volunteer :) >> > * Joel Bernstein will talk about screen scraping tools >> > * Lightning talks!! 5 minutes of whatever pythonic-ish thing you want to >> share. >> > >> > If you have something you'd like to share this month, please let us know! >> > >> > Join us on our python.org mailing list and on #pdxpython on Freenode. >> All are welcome! >> > >> > PDX Python on Twitter >> > >> > Portland Python Web Site >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > >> > Add *info at meetup.com* to your address book to receive all your Meetup >> emails. >> > >> > To unsubscribe or update your Meetup email preferences, visit your >> account page: >> > http://www.meetup.com/account/comm/ >> > >> > Questions? You can email Meetup Support at: support at meetup.com >> > >> > Meetup Support, 632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA >> > >> > ----- End forwarded message ----- >> > >> > -- >> > A.K. Farrell >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Portland mailing list >> > Portland at python.org >> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Patrick Curtain, ?Husband & Father ?( i also write software ) >> http://www.patrickcurtain.com/ ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?360.521.9625 >> _______________________________________________ >> Portland mailing list >> Portland at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > _______________________________________________ > Portland mailing list > Portland at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland > From python at dylanreinhardt.com Tue Jun 9 23:18:59 2009 From: python at dylanreinhardt.com (Dylan Reinhardt) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 14:18:59 -0700 Subject: [portland] It's the End of CubeSpace as We Know It... In-Reply-To: <4A2E7D8E.5060502@pragmaticraft.com> References: <4A2E7D8E.5060502@pragmaticraft.com> Message-ID: <4c645a720906091418g2de8377emb4bdc8071732de12@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 8:19 AM, Igal Koshevoy wrote: > If you have any job leads for the wonderful, capable and dedicated > CubeSpace owners and staff, please forward them on. Do you have any sense of what the owners might be looking for? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From freyley at gmail.com Wed Jun 10 02:46:02 2009 From: freyley at gmail.com (Jeff Schwaber) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 17:46:02 -0700 Subject: [portland] It's the End of CubeSpace as We Know It... In-Reply-To: <4c645a720906091418g2de8377emb4bdc8071732de12@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A2E7D8E.5060502@pragmaticraft.com> <4c645a720906091418g2de8377emb4bdc8071732de12@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8db4a1910906091746k741ecdb8le850b1ee71c075d9@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 2:18 PM, Dylan Reinhardt wrote: > On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 8:19 AM, Igal Koshevoy >wrote: > > > If you have any job leads for the wonderful, capable and dedicated > > CubeSpace owners and staff, please forward them on. > > > Do you have any sense of what the owners might be looking for? > Their resumes will be up soon, they say. Eva is very knowledgeable about local public policy and especially policies regarding small businesses. She'd probably be very happy to be a strategy person or executive director for an organization working in those fields. She'd probably also be interested if there were a company wanting a good tech-management interface. David's a freelance Rabbi. Corporations wanting corporate chaplains, or just people wanting to be married would help him out. If you've got a job that might fit those kinds of skillsets, but isn't what I said, you should suggest it to them. =) Jeff -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.python.org/pipermail/portland/attachments/20090609/00d04b69/attachment.htm > > > _______________________________________________ > Portland mailing list > Portland at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tim.j.welch at gmail.com Wed Jun 10 07:15:39 2009 From: tim.j.welch at gmail.com (Tim Welch) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 22:15:39 -0700 Subject: [portland] It's the End of CubeSpace as We Know It... In-Reply-To: <8db4a1910906091746k741ecdb8le850b1ee71c075d9@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A2E7D8E.5060502@pragmaticraft.com> <4c645a720906091418g2de8377emb4bdc8071732de12@mail.gmail.com> <8db4a1910906091746k741ecdb8le850b1ee71c075d9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3996251a0906092215q6af75ea7w124440119dfc1ee8@mail.gmail.com> Open Sourcery is a pretty good host for our open source geospatial user group. They have a meeting room or are willing to setup in their big open space if necessary. BYOB is allowed within reason ;) I would imagine they'll be getting a few more asks in the near future. Tim On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 5:46 PM, Jeff Schwaber wrote: > On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 2:18 PM, Dylan Reinhardt > wrote: > > > On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 8:19 AM, Igal Koshevoy > >wrote: > > > > > If you have any job leads for the wonderful, capable and dedicated > > > CubeSpace owners and staff, please forward them on. > > > > > > Do you have any sense of what the owners might be looking for? > > > > Their resumes will be up soon, they say. Eva is very knowledgeable about > local public policy and especially policies regarding small businesses. > She'd probably be very happy to be a strategy person or executive director > for an organization working in those fields. She'd probably also be > interested if there were a company wanting a good tech-management > interface. > > David's a freelance Rabbi. Corporations wanting corporate chaplains, or > just > people wanting to be married would help him out. > > If you've got a job that might fit those kinds of skillsets, but isn't what > I said, you should suggest it to them. =) > > Jeff > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > > > http://mail.python.org/pipermail/portland/attachments/20090609/00d04b69/attachment.htm > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Portland mailing list > > Portland at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.python.org/pipermail/portland/attachments/20090609/3017606b/attachment.htm > > > _______________________________________________ > Portland mailing list > Portland at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From omar at gnlnx.net Wed Jun 10 21:59:12 2009 From: omar at gnlnx.net (Omar A Rodriguez) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 12:59:12 -0700 Subject: [portland] Boost.Python Message-ID: Anyone have good/bad experience with Boost.Python? Do you know of other libraries that claim "seamless interoperability" between C++ and Python? http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_39_0/libs/python/doc/index.html I've been toying with the idea of having a task management system in the threading sense implemented in C++ but accessible from Python. I came across Boost.Python earlier today and was wondering what you folks think. Thanks, -Omar From michael at susens-schurter.com Wed Jun 10 22:16:49 2009 From: michael at susens-schurter.com (Michael Schurter) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 13:16:49 -0700 Subject: [portland] Boost.Python In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <240b71640906101316x671f284an3524d8958d1de1d8@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Omar A Rodriguez wrote: > Anyone have good/bad experience with Boost.Python? Do you know of other > libraries that claim "seamless interoperability" between C++ and Python? Hi Omar, Cython can wrap C code as well as C++ classes. I've never wrapped C++ libraries before, so I have no clue how well it works. HTH, Michael Schurter @schmichael From chiller at decipherinc.com Wed Jun 10 22:30:34 2009 From: chiller at decipherinc.com (Christopher Hiller) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 13:30:34 -0700 Subject: [portland] Boost.Python In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, We use Boost at my company. An alternative is using Pyrex/Cython: http://wiki.cython.org/WrappingCPlusPlus. It seems Boost is better suited to legacy C++ code; you may want to take a good look at the alternative. If you are not married to C++, Pyrex provides some OO stuff for C: http://ldots.org/pyrex-guide/5-python-wrapper.html#class Chris On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Omar A Rodriguez wrote: > Anyone have good/bad experience with Boost.Python? Do you know of other > libraries that claim "seamless interoperability" between C++ and Python? > > http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_39_0/libs/python/doc/index.html > > I've been toying with the idea of having a task management system in the > threading sense implemented in C++ but accessible from Python. I came across > Boost.Python earlier today and was wondering what you folks think. > > > Thanks, > -Omar > _______________________________________________ > Portland mailing list > Portland at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland > -- christopher hiller sr software engineer decipher 34 nw 1st ave, ste 305 portland or 97209 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brett at rdnzl.net Thu Jun 11 01:48:44 2009 From: brett at rdnzl.net (Brett Carter) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 16:48:44 -0700 Subject: [portland] Boost.Python In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <109A42AD-9F35-4122-B51C-838B86C09417@rdnzl.net> Depending on what you want to do, the built-in ctypes work well too: http://www.python.org/doc/2.5.1/lib/module-ctypes.html -Brett On Jun 10, 2009, at 12:59 PM, Omar A Rodriguez wrote: > Anyone have good/bad experience with Boost.Python? Do you know of > other libraries that claim "seamless interoperability" between C++ > and Python? > > http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_39_0/libs/python/doc/index.html > > I've been toying with the idea of having a task management system in > the threading sense implemented in C++ but accessible from Python. I > came across Boost.Python earlier today and was wondering what you > folks think. > > > Thanks, > -Omar > _______________________________________________ > Portland mailing list > Portland at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland From omar at gnlnx.net Thu Jun 11 02:38:54 2009 From: omar at gnlnx.net (Omar A Rodriguez) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:38:54 -0700 Subject: [portland] Boost.Python In-Reply-To: <109A42AD-9F35-4122-B51C-838B86C09417@rdnzl.net> References: <109A42AD-9F35-4122-B51C-838B86C09417@rdnzl.net> Message-ID: Thanks for the quick responses :-). I will look into all of these suggestions. If all goes well I might present my progress in a future monthly meeting :-P -omar On Jun 10, 2009, at 4:48 PM, Brett Carter wrote: > Depending on what you want to do, the built-in ctypes work well too: > http://www.python.org/doc/2.5.1/lib/module-ctypes.html > > -Brett > > On Jun 10, 2009, at 12:59 PM, Omar A Rodriguez wrote: > >> Anyone have good/bad experience with Boost.Python? Do you know of >> other libraries that claim "seamless interoperability" between C++ >> and Python? >> >> http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_39_0/libs/python/doc/index.html >> >> I've been toying with the idea of having a task management system >> in the threading sense implemented in C++ but accessible from >> Python. I came across Boost.Python earlier today and was wondering >> what you folks think. >> >> >> Thanks, >> -Omar >> _______________________________________________ >> Portland mailing list >> Portland at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland > > _______________________________________________ > Portland mailing list > Portland at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland From brian at dorseys.org Mon Jun 15 00:24:59 2009 From: brian at dorseys.org (Brian Dorsey) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 15:24:59 -0700 Subject: [portland] Looking for a place to stay for OS Bridge. Message-ID: <66e877b70906141524q24180748o7c3c4ec1d51c0c50@mail.gmail.com> Hi everyone! I've only made it down from Seattle for one meeting, but I'm going to prey on your generosity anyway. ;) Due to a late change in plans, I'm looking for a place to crash for three nights this week (16th-18th). It'd be great if you're also attending OS Bridge, but I'll happily accept anything. Couches, living room floors, shared hotel rooms, all OK. I'll be coming down by train, and will have a bike, but I probably won't be able to get to places that need a car. Picture of me here: http://briandorsey.info If you don't have a spot, please forward on to other people you know. Thanks! Take care, -Brian From markgross at thegnar.org Mon Jun 15 01:47:19 2009 From: markgross at thegnar.org (mgross) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 16:47:19 -0700 Subject: [portland] Looking for a place to stay for OS Bridge. In-Reply-To: <66e877b70906141524q24180748o7c3c4ec1d51c0c50@mail.gmail.com> References: <66e877b70906141524q24180748o7c3c4ec1d51c0c50@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090614234719.GD28879@thegnar.org> I'm checking with my wife. If you are low maintenance then it may be ok. We are in the middle of a remodel so limited kitchen access. Oh, I live in the burbs and plan to commute via the sunset TC to downtown. If you can get a place closer in you may be better off. --mgross On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 03:24:59PM -0700, Brian Dorsey wrote: > Hi everyone! > > I've only made it down from Seattle for one meeting, but I'm going to > prey on your generosity anyway. ;) > > Due to a late change in plans, I'm looking for a place to crash for > three nights this week (16th-18th). It'd be great if you're also > attending OS Bridge, but I'll happily accept anything. Couches, living > room floors, shared hotel rooms, all OK. > > I'll be coming down by train, and will have a bike, but I probably > won't be able to get to places that need a car. > > Picture of me here: http://briandorsey.info > > If you don't have a spot, please forward on to other people you know. Thanks! > > Take care, > -Brian > _______________________________________________ > Portland mailing list > Portland at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From jeff at taupro.com Mon Jun 15 05:36:49 2009 From: jeff at taupro.com (Jeff Rush) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 22:36:49 -0500 Subject: [portland] django coders? In-Reply-To: <88d85d160906081251v4be7ca68h8726ea03944a06ec@mail.gmail.com> References: <4c645a720906081243i722bec10h265037326aca8582@mail.gmail.com> <88d85d160906081251v4be7ca68h8726ea03944a06ec@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A35C1D1.3080805@taupro.com> Rami Kassab wrote: > > Nonetheless, Dylan is very correct. Python needs to market itself better!!! Actually from what you describe, Python -is- being marketed very well -- it is producing clients asking for Python developers that cannot be found. I see that here in Dallas as well. Or did you mean that Python needs to encourage more developers to -enter- the Python job market? That's a different marketing problem. BTW, to anyone looking for Python developers there is a very good jobs announcement list on python.org that is closing positions rapidly and successfully. Many employers send thankyou notes to the sysadmins about it being a valuable resource. -Jeff From kirby.urner at gmail.com Mon Jun 15 05:57:22 2009 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 20:57:22 -0700 Subject: [portland] django coders? In-Reply-To: <4A35C1D1.3080805@taupro.com> References: <4c645a720906081243i722bec10h265037326aca8582@mail.gmail.com> <88d85d160906081251v4be7ca68h8726ea03944a06ec@mail.gmail.com> <4A35C1D1.3080805@taupro.com> Message-ID: Hey thanks Jeff, for the tip re the jobs board. I was going to mention too, that sometimes it's OK to give some details about what's being contemplated, what the project is, not just talking about the tool set (e.g. Python). Like I get excited about clinical research, heart caths, bypass procedures, aggregating data and doing followup. I've worked in Visual FoxPro in this area for over a decade, with Python around the edges. When that MUMPS thing crapped out, I suggested Django, a web framework approach, with Postgres for a back end. However, the interim decision was run out the contract with the MUMPS vendor while exploring this whole FOSS thing in more detail, as maybe Kirby is just talking through his hat. After all, MUMPS was invented at Massachusetts General and Kaiser still uses it for something, etc. etc. So then I started selling the FOSS thing more generally (stable, affordable, supportable in-house with proper training), on my own dime (as a vendor), but hospitals are regarded as cash cows by predators who don't believe in sharing the road all that much, so I can't say I'm having the easiest time breaking in, even though Postgres is used in private industry all over the place (not talking legal medical records, just clinical research records, a different animal). [ Blah blah... ] Anyway, just talking about a problem domain that excites me, whereas I don't know shit about newspapers hardly (was editor of AFSC's Asia Pacific News but that barely counts), and lots of Django stuff has to do with newspaper sites is my understanding. So if someone just says "I need a Django programmer", I'm thinking that might mean something to do with newspapers and run in the opposite direction. That's just not what I know. Kirby ** http://worldgame.blogspot.com/2009/06/patient-tracking.html On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 8:36 PM, Jeff Rush wrote: > Rami Kassab wrote: >> >> Nonetheless, Dylan is very correct. Python needs to market itself better!!! > > Actually from what you describe, Python -is- being marketed very well -- > it is producing clients asking for Python developers that cannot be > found. ?I see that here in Dallas as well. > > Or did you mean that Python needs to encourage more developers to > -enter- the Python job market? ?That's a different marketing problem. > > BTW, to anyone looking for Python developers there is a very good jobs > announcement list on python.org that is closing positions rapidly and > successfully. ?Many employers send thankyou notes to the sysadmins about > it being a valuable resource. > > -Jeff > _______________________________________________ > Portland mailing list > Portland at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland > From markgross at thegnar.org Mon Jun 15 15:14:05 2009 From: markgross at thegnar.org (mgross) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 06:14:05 -0700 Subject: [portland] Looking for a place to stay for OS Bridge. In-Reply-To: <20090614234719.GD28879@thegnar.org> References: <66e877b70906141524q24180748o7c3c4ec1d51c0c50@mail.gmail.com> <20090614234719.GD28879@thegnar.org> Message-ID: <20090615131404.GB11338@thegnar.org> oops, I meant this to be off list ;) --mgross On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 04:47:19PM -0700, mgross wrote: > I'm checking with my wife. If you are low maintenance then it may be > ok. We are in the middle of a remodel so limited kitchen access. > > Oh, I live in the burbs and plan to commute via the sunset TC to > downtown. If you can get a place closer in you may be better off. > > --mgross > > > On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 03:24:59PM -0700, Brian Dorsey wrote: > > Hi everyone! > > > > I've only made it down from Seattle for one meeting, but I'm going to > > prey on your generosity anyway. ;) > > > > Due to a late change in plans, I'm looking for a place to crash for > > three nights this week (16th-18th). It'd be great if you're also > > attending OS Bridge, but I'll happily accept anything. Couches, living > > room floors, shared hotel rooms, all OK. > > > > I'll be coming down by train, and will have a bike, but I probably > > won't be able to get to places that need a car. > > > > Picture of me here: http://briandorsey.info > > > > If you don't have a spot, please forward on to other people you know. Thanks! > > > > Take care, > > -Brian > > _______________________________________________ > > Portland mailing list > > Portland at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: not available > Type: application/pgp-signature > Size: 197 bytes > Desc: Digital signature > URL: > _______________________________________________ > Portland mailing list > Portland at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From python at dylanreinhardt.com Mon Jun 15 17:05:53 2009 From: python at dylanreinhardt.com (Dylan Reinhardt) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 08:05:53 -0700 Subject: [portland] django coders? In-Reply-To: <4A35C1D1.3080805@taupro.com> References: <4c645a720906081243i722bec10h265037326aca8582@mail.gmail.com> <88d85d160906081251v4be7ca68h8726ea03944a06ec@mail.gmail.com> <4A35C1D1.3080805@taupro.com> Message-ID: <4c645a720906150805o62636043p5bf2f87c368c90fd@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 8:36 PM, Jeff Rush wrote: > Rami Kassab wrote: > > > > Nonetheless, Dylan is very correct. Python needs to market itself > better!!! > > Actually from what you describe, Python -is- being marketed very well -- > it is producing clients asking for Python developers that cannot be > found. I see that here in Dallas as well. Yes and no. It's not hard to get a decent share of the Python pie, but it's an incredibly small pie. Python could be 10x larger than it is... but to do that, we would have to really give a crap about marketing the language. All indications I've seen are that such a crap is not likely to be given. Our community leaders may be composed of software geniuses, but they suffer from a serious case of not-getting-it when it comes to marketing. They very strongly do not want to discuss anything beyond objective technical merit and don't think it makes any sense to design python.org to reach outside the F/OSS community. It took almost 10 years just to get to the point of having a logo that was applied consistently and didn't look horrible. It would be great if we could get our act together on this, but I'm not holding my breath. $.02 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirby.urner at gmail.com Mon Jun 15 18:48:15 2009 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 09:48:15 -0700 Subject: [portland] django coders? In-Reply-To: <4c645a720906150805o62636043p5bf2f87c368c90fd@mail.gmail.com> References: <4c645a720906081243i722bec10h265037326aca8582@mail.gmail.com> <88d85d160906081251v4be7ca68h8726ea03944a06ec@mail.gmail.com> <4A35C1D1.3080805@taupro.com> <4c645a720906150805o62636043p5bf2f87c368c90fd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I agree with Dylan that marketing hasn't been Python's chief forte, especially pre the new logo, which PSF has wisely taken steps to protect, to the tune of $50K by one estimate, and that didn't include Israel. Holden and I were looking at billboard, cab sign, side-of-bus pricing, though it was "airport concourse in Iceland" that I was thinking, given Twisted connection, and a "just use it" slogan, conscious play off of Nike's (there's a link through greek mythology some of you might know about). Python has a lot to work with, including but not limited to Monty Python connections. In terms of repute among the young, it ranks very high "for a computer language" and aye, there's the rub. Who gives a flying fuck about computer languages? Practically no one. The only truly "marketed" language I've seen was Java, originally Oak (?), but consciously branded and sold with all the yummy coffee and coffee shop associations befitting a contemporary office environment, huge rank and file cube farms full of people needing compile time checking, not really test driven, looks sweet, but less fun ("we prefer runtime" might be a bumper sticker?). Anyway it's not either/or, and there's always Jython for breakfast. Still, I'm upbeat about our fledgling dictatorship, think it shows signs of life. That remark about Rivendale at Pycon was fortuitous, got Steve talking about "pointy ears" for swag (OK, maybe too Halloweeny). Then there's zoomorphic ways of teaching OO, such as I favor (per Blip TV etc.), where snakes feature prominently, with scales 'n everything. Back to reality though, I think part of the problem is we live in a backward nation that outsources everything and only has eyes and ears for "real estate stories" in its major metropolitan papers, i.e. we're dealing with urban farmers and country gentlemen, Victorians who argue about "evolution in schools" as if Scopes were just yesterday. Intel only gets 19% of its MVPs from the local scene, was the figure at the TechStart meeting (Willamette University), because, lets face it, Americans are just plain stupid, no ifs ands or buts. What can I say? It's not genetic of course, but self imposed. We dumb ourselves down with a vengeance, an interesting process to observe. Ergo, most of my own marketing thinking is focused "out there" where I'm looking for more bank from the buck (Iceland, Philippines, Uzbekistan etc.). If PPS starts teaching Python or Ruby or Perl as a part of everyday math class (why not? -- TI calculators more useful?), our economy might start turning around, but in the meantime I think we're mostly still into selling hot air (most of it political), indulging in bling (increasingly faux -- like those new cheapo $400 watches on Wall Street, not the real deal). The only really secure industry in our region is native American casinos, and they recruit the cream of the crop (e.g. CSN CIO a top Reedie, knows his stuff, works in a Stillaguamish establishment, might do an eduPycon there sometime? **). Kirby ** http://controlroom.blogspot.com/2008/07/python-project.html (eduPycon project) On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 8:05 AM, Dylan Reinhardt wrote: > On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 8:36 PM, Jeff Rush wrote: > >> Rami Kassab wrote: >> > >> > Nonetheless, Dylan is very correct. Python needs to market itself >> better!!! >> >> Actually from what you describe, Python -is- being marketed very well -- >> it is producing clients asking for Python developers that cannot be >> found. ?I see that here in Dallas as well. > > > Yes and no. ?It's not hard to get a decent share of the Python pie, but it's > an incredibly small pie. ?Python could be 10x larger than it > is... but to do that, we would have to really give a crap about > marketing the language. ?All indications I've seen are > that such a crap is not likely to be given. > > Our community leaders may be composed of software geniuses, but they suffer > from a serious case of not-getting-it when it comes to marketing. ?They very > strongly do not want to discuss anything beyond objective technical merit > and don't think it makes any sense to design python.org to reach outside the > F/OSS community. ?It took almost 10 years just to get to the point of having > a logo that was applied consistently and didn't look horrible. > > It would be great if we could get our act together on this, but I'm not > holding my breath. > > $.02 > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > _______________________________________________ > Portland mailing list > Portland at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland > From michael at susens-schurter.com Mon Jun 15 18:54:23 2009 From: michael at susens-schurter.com (Michael Schurter) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 09:54:23 -0700 Subject: [portland] django coders? In-Reply-To: References: <4c645a720906081243i722bec10h265037326aca8582@mail.gmail.com> <88d85d160906081251v4be7ca68h8726ea03944a06ec@mail.gmail.com> <4A35C1D1.3080805@taupro.com> <4c645a720906150805o62636043p5bf2f87c368c90fd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <240b71640906150954m4873ee10qfaaae940d84f6e61@mail.gmail.com> OT sorry On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 9:48 AM, kirby urner wrote: > I agree with Dylan that marketing hasn't been Python's chief forte, > especially pre the new logo, which PSF has wisely taken steps to > protect, to the tune of $50K by one estimate, and that didn't include > Israel. Speaking of protecting the logo, my wife contacted the PSF a couple weeks ago about using the logo on a small run of laptop sleeves she's crafting. Any guesses when she can expect a response and what it will be? Canonical turned her down pretty quickly on the Ubuntu logo, but thats a commercial organization. We're hoping the PSF will be a little more lenient for a small time crafter. Sorry for the OT post. :-) From rami at typethink.com Mon Jun 15 20:30:02 2009 From: rami at typethink.com (Rami Kassab) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 11:30:02 -0700 Subject: [portland] django coders? In-Reply-To: <4A35C1D1.3080805@taupro.com> References: <4c645a720906081243i722bec10h265037326aca8582@mail.gmail.com> <88d85d160906081251v4be7ca68h8726ea03944a06ec@mail.gmail.com> <4A35C1D1.3080805@taupro.com> Message-ID: <88d85d160906151130s6f1159aeve53d59ba8526f59a@mail.gmail.com> Jeff, was mainly referring to marketing itself better to developers. While we work to get our clients to agree to having Python development, it's not something that our clients come asking us to do right off the bat. -- *Rami Kassab* - Chief Executive Officer M 503.888.8605 rami at typethink.com LinkedIn Profile *Typethink* - Creative Web Firm P 503.626.6231 F 503.626.6233 111 SW 5th Ave., Suite 1000 Portland, OR 97204 www.typethink.com On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 8:36 PM, Jeff Rush wrote: > Rami Kassab wrote: > > > > Nonetheless, Dylan is very correct. Python needs to market itself > better!!! > > Actually from what you describe, Python -is- being marketed very well -- > it is producing clients asking for Python developers that cannot be > found. I see that here in Dallas as well. > > Or did you mean that Python needs to encourage more developers to > -enter- the Python job market? That's a different marketing problem. > > BTW, to anyone looking for Python developers there is a very good jobs > announcement list on python.org that is closing positions rapidly and > successfully. Many employers send thankyou notes to the sysadmins about > it being a valuable resource. > > -Jeff > _______________________________________________ > Portland mailing list > Portland at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rami at typethink.com Mon Jun 15 20:37:59 2009 From: rami at typethink.com (Rami Kassab) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 11:37:59 -0700 Subject: [portland] Looking for a place to stay for OS Bridge. In-Reply-To: <66e877b70906141524q24180748o7c3c4ec1d51c0c50@mail.gmail.com> References: <66e877b70906141524q24180748o7c3c4ec1d51c0c50@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <88d85d160906151137y4fd925cbpabf7d0d8d7203ed1@mail.gmail.com> Brian,Have you found a place to stay yet? If not, let me know. I live in a condo in NE Portland with 2 other gentlemen and we have a nice italian leather couch that's really comfortable. Let me know, thanks! -- *Rami Kassab* - Chief Executive Officer M 503.888.8605 rami at typethink.com LinkedIn Profile *Typethink* - Creative Web Firm P 503.626.6231 F 503.626.6233 111 SW 5th Ave., Suite 1000 Portland, OR 97204 www.typethink.com On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 3:24 PM, Brian Dorsey wrote: > Hi everyone! > > I've only made it down from Seattle for one meeting, but I'm going to > prey on your generosity anyway. ;) > > Due to a late change in plans, I'm looking for a place to crash for > three nights this week (16th-18th). It'd be great if you're also > attending OS Bridge, but I'll happily accept anything. Couches, living > room floors, shared hotel rooms, all OK. > > I'll be coming down by train, and will have a bike, but I probably > won't be able to get to places that need a car. > > Picture of me here: http://briandorsey.info > > If you don't have a spot, please forward on to other people you know. > Thanks! > > Take care, > -Brian > _______________________________________________ > Portland mailing list > Portland at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirby.urner at gmail.com Mon Jun 15 20:47:56 2009 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 11:47:56 -0700 Subject: [portland] django coders? In-Reply-To: <240b71640906150954m4873ee10qfaaae940d84f6e61@mail.gmail.com> References: <4c645a720906081243i722bec10h265037326aca8582@mail.gmail.com> <88d85d160906081251v4be7ca68h8726ea03944a06ec@mail.gmail.com> <4A35C1D1.3080805@taupro.com> <4c645a720906150805o62636043p5bf2f87c368c90fd@mail.gmail.com> <240b71640906150954m4873ee10qfaaae940d84f6e61@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I was asking just this very question, about the trademark on clothing, whether fees were charged, given Pycon has long served as a Px for such warez, me wearing one of my Python fleeces at this very moment... (a fave costume, super classy). Plus it's not just the logo, there's "batteries included" [tm] and "fits your brain" [tm] to think about. All that xkcd stuff, zoo creatures... Having been in Chang Mai and places, I know what a headache it is for the real Nike, say, to police its own brand, as the problem isn't "cheap knock-offs" so much is the real deal, the exact same merchandise, getting into the hands of American tourists (who can blame them?) who then go home and boast about how everything's so cheap in Thailand. Same thing with proprietary software (e.g. Microsoft's) until FOSS came along, at which point your only cost was the media (DVDs) and no ill will from PSF if you go crazy deepcopying, as that's what it's for, same deal with Ubuntu (which is OK with the logo traveling with the distro -- getting off on clothing, what does that mean? **). Anyway, I didn't get an answer, but the tone being set is one of encouraging responsible use in ways that serve our community, with VL poised to come after you, with a posse if necessary, if you do anything "wrong" after the fact, i.e. there's always post hoc retribution and incarceration, if the Klingons gain control (not saying they will). But "big offenses" would all have to do with source code I should think, as people have spoof rights with logos, i.e. it's OK to make fun of doctors, dress up in a fake stethoscope and pretend to understand hearts, but it's not OK to walk into an operating room an "feign an operation". Likewise, marketing a "fake snake" as the "real deal" while embedding "phone home" capabilities, would probably get you some jail time (whatever that means in the Python community's namespace -- certainly not good for one's reputation, plus other jurisdictions may apply). So I'm thinking you won't get hounded for those slip covers or whatever they are. I ran by the example of flying the Python flag (logo in flag wavy format) from the top of Angel of the Winds and didn't get any hecklers, so what's the big diff? Caveat: I'm just a freshman senator, *not* on the trademark committee, and *not* on the board, so these are just my impressions from haunting the list, JR in Dallas here might correct me as he has seniority. Kirby PSF '09 ** http://worldgame.blogspot.com/2008/07/more-geek-anthro.html (Ubuntu skin branding, click for larger view), relates to legal question if PSF logo tattoo could retail in Portland, OR with no profits due i.e. Pythonistas have a right to so decorate themselves or not? (question for BDFL maybe, not saying I'm in control of this business or its legal rep in any way). On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 9:54 AM, Michael Schurter wrote: > OT sorry > > On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 9:48 AM, kirby urner wrote: >> I agree with Dylan that marketing hasn't been Python's chief forte, >> especially pre the new logo, which PSF has wisely taken steps to >> protect, to the tune of $50K by one estimate, and that didn't include >> Israel. > > Speaking of protecting the logo, my wife contacted the PSF a couple > weeks ago about using the logo on a small run of laptop sleeves she's > crafting. ?Any guesses when she can expect a response and what it will > be? > > Canonical turned her down pretty quickly on the Ubuntu logo, but thats > a commercial organization. ?We're hoping the PSF will be a little more > lenient for a small time crafter. > > Sorry for the OT post. ?:-) > _______________________________________________ > Portland mailing list > Portland at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland > From jeff at taupro.com Tue Jun 16 05:48:19 2009 From: jeff at taupro.com (Jeff Rush) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 22:48:19 -0500 Subject: [portland] django coders? In-Reply-To: <240b71640906150954m4873ee10qfaaae940d84f6e61@mail.gmail.com> References: <4c645a720906081243i722bec10h265037326aca8582@mail.gmail.com> <88d85d160906081251v4be7ca68h8726ea03944a06ec@mail.gmail.com> <4A35C1D1.3080805@taupro.com> <4c645a720906150805o62636043p5bf2f87c368c90fd@mail.gmail.com> <240b71640906150954m4873ee10qfaaae940d84f6e61@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A371603.80706@taupro.com> Michael Schurter wrote: > > Speaking of protecting the logo, my wife contacted the PSF a couple > weeks ago about using the logo on a small run of laptop sleeves she's > crafting. Any guesses when she can expect a response and what it will > be? She should get a response within a few days and if not, re-ask. The committee for approval can be a bit slow. If (a) she is not altering the logo and (b) the intent is for the sleeves to let developers be proud of their use of Python, there won't be any problem. The PSF has no problem with for-profit use of the logo as long as it is not used in a misleading or offensive way. We -want- to promote the visibility of Python in innovative, tasteful ways. If she is altering the logo, which is permitted, it may take a few more days. There are people who have tweaked either the Python or PyCon logo for cultural, geographical or project-specific reasons. Examples are the cute placement of the Python logo onto an integrated circuit for the Python-on-a-Chip project: http://code.google.com/p/python-on-a-chip/ http://code.google.com/p/python-on-a-chip/logo?logo_id=1245101924 or the 12 European stars in a ring around the Python snake: http://www.europython.eu/ http://www.europython.eu/images/europython_logo.png BTW those sleeves sound pretty cool. Drop me an email when they are available. And to others on this list with creative skills, the community is always looking for neat graphics, logos, slogans, laptop stickers and promotional flyers showing off Python. It can even be profitable and certainly bring you fame if you're good at it. -Jeff From michael at susens-schurter.com Tue Jun 16 06:11:13 2009 From: michael at susens-schurter.com (Michael Schurter) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 21:11:13 -0700 Subject: [portland] django coders? In-Reply-To: <4A371603.80706@taupro.com> References: <4c645a720906081243i722bec10h265037326aca8582@mail.gmail.com> <88d85d160906081251v4be7ca68h8726ea03944a06ec@mail.gmail.com> <4A35C1D1.3080805@taupro.com> <4c645a720906150805o62636043p5bf2f87c368c90fd@mail.gmail.com> <240b71640906150954m4873ee10qfaaae940d84f6e61@mail.gmail.com> <4A371603.80706@taupro.com> Message-ID: <240b71640906152111h2ead5300g6e5f51f325545129@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 8:48 PM, Jeff Rush wrote: > Michael Schurter wrote: >> >> Speaking of protecting the logo, my wife contacted the PSF a couple >> weeks ago about using the logo on a small run of laptop sleeves she's >> crafting. ?Any guesses when she can expect a response and what it will >> be? > > She should get a response within a few days and if not, re-ask. ?The > committee for approval can be a bit slow. ?If (a) she is not altering > the logo and (b) the intent is for the sleeves to let developers be > proud of their use of Python, there won't be any problem. ?The PSF has > no problem with for-profit use of the logo as long as it is not used in > a misleading or offensive way. ?We -want- to promote the visibility of > Python in innovative, tasteful ways. Fantastic! Thanks a lot Jeff! She's definitely hoping to market them to Python devs. Too bad they won't be ready in time for OS Bridge. Hopefully she'll have her Tux ones done in time for the Linux confs! From jeff at taupro.com Tue Jun 16 06:33:44 2009 From: jeff at taupro.com (Jeff Rush) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 23:33:44 -0500 Subject: [portland] django coders? In-Reply-To: <88d85d160906151130s6f1159aeve53d59ba8526f59a@mail.gmail.com> References: <4c645a720906081243i722bec10h265037326aca8582@mail.gmail.com> <88d85d160906081251v4be7ca68h8726ea03944a06ec@mail.gmail.com> <4A35C1D1.3080805@taupro.com> <88d85d160906151130s6f1159aeve53d59ba8526f59a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A3720A8.3090406@taupro.com> Rami Kassab wrote: > Jeff, was mainly referring to marketing itself better to developers. While > we work to get our clients to agree to having Python development, it's not > something that our clients come asking us to do right off the bat. It is an interesting issue but I think you're in conflict ;-) with Dylan's viewpoint: Dylan Reinhardt wrote: >> Rami Kassab wrote: >>> Nonetheless, Dylan is very correct. Python needs to market itself >> better!!! > > Our community leaders may be composed of software geniuses, but they > suffer from a serious case of not-getting-it when it comes to > marketing. They very strongly do not want to discuss anything > beyond objective technical merit and don't think it makes any sense > to design python.org to reach outside the F/OSS community. Rami, you say we should market better to developers but it is precisely (senior) developers who care primarily (not exclusively) about "objective technical merit" in choosing a language. That and finding someone to pay them to use their favorite language but as you and others here say, there is already strong demand, just not much supply. I use the word 'senior developer' above because they have more influence over the language within an organization than a junior developer. Juniors use whatever language their team uses. There is a third group of developers, sort of orthogonal to the above, of those who use whatever language is popular in order to be employed, with little loyalty to a language community and often not a super-deep understanding of the intricacies of a language. To them it is just a tool. Abusing a cliche, they code to live instead of living to code. Getting more of them to use Python means convincing them it will put money in their pocket. There are those in the Python community who don't want to attract that kind of developer. They feel they will (1) lower the quality of programming done with Python, (2) dilute the sense of community and (3) reduce the wages that can be earned by using a language with high demand and low supply. Some companies align themselves with this viewpoint and are hesitant to promote Python too much, at the risk of losing their secret weapon, their competitive advantage. Python is an easy language to learn. The cost, for both these companies and the developers above favoring exclusivity, is fewer opportunities for filling employment positions. If Python is not widely used as other languages, it is harder to find developers to hire and harder for developers to find suitable employers. Balancing that cost against higher revenue is tricky. Now marketing to managers or executives is a different matter but no one here seems to be saying we need to do more of that. -Jeff From brian at dorseys.org Tue Jun 16 08:05:44 2009 From: brian at dorseys.org (Brian Dorsey) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 23:05:44 -0700 Subject: [portland] Looking for a place to stay for OS Bridge. In-Reply-To: <66e877b70906141524q24180748o7c3c4ec1d51c0c50@mail.gmail.com> References: <66e877b70906141524q24180748o7c3c4ec1d51c0c50@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <66e877b70906152305l247ce465tf041785ee7e483bd@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 3:24 PM, Brian Dorsey wrote: > Due to a late change in plans, I'm looking for a place to crash for > three nights this week (16th-18th). Thank you everyone! I had several offers of advice and three firm offers of a place to stay. Portland Python People rock. Take care, -Brian From python at dylanreinhardt.com Tue Jun 16 15:24:45 2009 From: python at dylanreinhardt.com (Dylan Reinhardt) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 06:24:45 -0700 Subject: [portland] django coders? In-Reply-To: <4A3720A8.3090406@taupro.com> References: <4c645a720906081243i722bec10h265037326aca8582@mail.gmail.com> <88d85d160906081251v4be7ca68h8726ea03944a06ec@mail.gmail.com> <4A35C1D1.3080805@taupro.com> <88d85d160906151130s6f1159aeve53d59ba8526f59a@mail.gmail.com> <4A3720A8.3090406@taupro.com> Message-ID: <4c645a720906160624m2a4d93c5k1c37cc25ee62cddd@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 9:33 PM, Jeff Rush wrote: > Rami Kassab wrote: > > Jeff, was mainly referring to marketing itself better to developers. > While > > we work to get our clients to agree to having Python development, it's > not > > something that our clients come asking us to do right off the bat. > > It is an interesting issue but I think you're in conflict ;-) with > Dylan's viewpoint: That's not how I read that comment. Very few clients go looking for Python, but it's easy to get clients to *evaluate* Python. Most people are open to hearing about a key tool used by Google, et al. The tough part of the sell comes when the client wants to know who they can turn to for support if you get hit by a bus. There's not a lot of excess capacity out there and if you're a solo practitioner, the lack of available support can be a deal-breaker. So it may be the case that we're individually busy and individually able to create Python gigs... but none of that activity seems to create the impression that there's much reason for Java or VB coders to make the leap. That's where some decent marketing would come in. But slow and steady growth will eventually work too. It looks like PCC will be offering a class in Python this Fall. I forget if it got posted here or not, but MIT is now teaching Python in their intro class. Over the long run, we'll grow. It's just that the way we're doing it, it's going to take a lot of patience. $.02, Dylan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirby.urner at gmail.com Tue Jun 16 15:42:36 2009 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 06:42:36 -0700 Subject: [portland] django coders? In-Reply-To: <4A3720A8.3090406@taupro.com> References: <4c645a720906081243i722bec10h265037326aca8582@mail.gmail.com> <88d85d160906081251v4be7ca68h8726ea03944a06ec@mail.gmail.com> <4A35C1D1.3080805@taupro.com> <88d85d160906151130s6f1159aeve53d59ba8526f59a@mail.gmail.com> <4A3720A8.3090406@taupro.com> Message-ID: Visual FoxPro was working just fine for bread and butter, plus I'd already learned APL and FORTRAN (was paid to do FORTRAN on an HP something or other, talked my hospital system into going Microsoft instead -- everyone was doing it, and I was waaaay affordable comparatively). However, as someone passionate about geometry, with a math teaching background, I thought FoxPro sucked as a tool for generating polyhedra. The Web was just becoming available to the masses (MOSAIC) and right away I noticed a paucity of polyhedra on the ol' W3 (later, I used to tally the number of videos on polyhedra when Google Videos came out, published stats to the Math Forum). I wrote an article in FoxPro Advisor about using Foxpro for polyhedra (wasn't saying it couldn't be done, used 4-tuple Chakovian coordinates, trademarked as "quadrays" for the purposes of this published Ziff-Davis version), but how was I to achieve world domination in math classrooms (my old haunt) with something so expensive as Microsoft's Visual FoxPro (no IronPython invented yet). Education is cut throat. There's practically no money for teaching (part of that "dumbing us down" I was talking about -- WB called it an act of war on our people, before going back to casino work **). So I tried Scheme and Java (both free) before coming to Python (also open source) which is where I've stayed. I've chronicled this transitional period with a series of web pages (hand coded static HTML from the dark ages: http://www.4dsolutions.net/ocn/oop.html (goes on through seven chapters). In terms of marketing, wealthy families are realizing that certification is up for grabs in technical careers, e.g. Google is doing it, O'Reilly has a Technology School etc., universities matter less (relatively) with those degree things they panhandle (mine from Princeton, worth plenty). So why not hire a live-in anglophone tutor from the Philippines who knows math 'n Python, will educate junior here to be tomorrow's chief executive officer in dad's company, or at least CFO maybe, don't need to call yourself "a developer" (sounds lower on the pay scale). A lot of the clients I work with (like yesterday in fact, though we had to adjourn to Lucky Lab, given I was unclear on the concept of CubeSpace closing right there and then -- here's the U-Haul driving away: http://www.flickr.com/photos/17157315 at N00/3631485574/ ) don't consider themselves career developers. They're movie directors, actors (theater included), scientists, wanting to control lights, use some API, count butterflies in the gorge. They know, thanks to Guido's CP4E (DARPA funded for a while) that you don't have to be a developer to hack sometimes, and Python is good for hacking. In that sense, I suppose my marketing is threatening to developers, as here I am, a geometry teacher with a Princeton philosophy degree, saying if your live-in tutor was a Filipina and you never went to a brick and mortar college, have distance degrees from O'Reilly (= University of Illinois), we still might certify you as a FOSS boss and put you to work managing developers, including in a hospital setting, without turning you into a full time programmer, plus you'll know Python pretty well, are a Pythonista (lotsa bragging rights). So now go make that TV commercial! Kirby ** former Republican leader of some stature (William Bennett) PS: marketing my talk at OS Bridge, maybe see a few of you? http://opensourcebridge.org/sessions/34 On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 9:33 PM, Jeff Rush wrote: > Rami Kassab wrote: >> Jeff, was mainly referring to marketing itself better to developers. While >> we work to get our clients to agree to having Python development, it's not >> something that our clients come asking us to do right off the bat. > > It is an interesting issue but I think you're in conflict ;-) with > Dylan's viewpoint: > > Dylan Reinhardt wrote: >>> Rami Kassab wrote: >>>> Nonetheless, Dylan is very correct. Python needs to market itself >>> better!!! >> >> Our community leaders may be composed of software geniuses, but they >> suffer from a serious case of not-getting-it when it comes to >> marketing. ?They very strongly do not want to discuss anything >> beyond objective technical merit and don't think it makes any sense >> to design python.org to reach outside the F/OSS community. > > Rami, you say we should market better to developers but it is precisely > (senior) developers who care primarily (not exclusively) about > "objective technical merit" in choosing a language. ?That and finding > someone to pay them to use their favorite language but as you and others > here say, there is already strong demand, just not much supply. > > I use the word 'senior developer' above because they have more influence > over the language within an organization than a junior developer. > Juniors use whatever language their team uses. > > There is a third group of developers, sort of orthogonal to the above, > of those who use whatever language is popular in order to be employed, > with little loyalty to a language community and often not a super-deep > understanding of the intricacies of a language. ?To them it is just a > tool. ?Abusing a cliche, they code to live instead of living to code. > Getting more of them to use Python means convincing them it will put > money in their pocket. ?There are those in the Python community who > don't want to attract that kind of developer. ?They feel they will (1) > lower the quality of programming done with Python, (2) dilute the sense > of community and (3) reduce the wages that can be earned by using a > language with high demand and low supply. > > Some companies align themselves with this viewpoint and are hesitant to > promote Python too much, at the risk of losing their secret weapon, > their competitive advantage. ?Python is an easy language to learn. > > The cost, for both these companies and the developers above favoring > exclusivity, is fewer opportunities for filling employment positions. > If Python is not widely used as other languages, it is harder to find > developers to hire and harder for developers to find suitable employers. > ?Balancing that cost against higher revenue is tricky. > > Now marketing to managers or executives is a different matter but no one > here seems to be saying we need to do more of that. > > -Jeff > _______________________________________________ > Portland mailing list > Portland at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland > From kirby.urner at gmail.com Tue Jun 16 16:29:30 2009 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 07:29:30 -0700 Subject: [portland] django coders? In-Reply-To: References: <4c645a720906081243i722bec10h265037326aca8582@mail.gmail.com> <88d85d160906081251v4be7ca68h8726ea03944a06ec@mail.gmail.com> <4A35C1D1.3080805@taupro.com> <88d85d160906151130s6f1159aeve53d59ba8526f59a@mail.gmail.com> <4A3720A8.3090406@taupro.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 6:42 AM, kirby urner wrote: << SNIP >> > I wrote an article in FoxPro Advisor about using Foxpro for polyhedra > (wasn't saying it couldn't be done, used 4-tuple Chakovian > coordinates, trademarked as "quadrays" for the purposes of this > published Ziff-Davis version), but how was I to achieve world > domination in math classrooms (my old haunt) with something so > expensive as Microsoft's Visual FoxPro (no IronPython invented yet). > Education is cut throat. ?There's practically no money for teaching > (part of that "dumbing us down" I was talking about -- WB called it an > act of war on our people, before going back to casino work **). > Hmmm, maybe I'm bein' sloppy saying Ziff-Davis here, as Advisor Media is privately owned and a soap box for various California-style thinkers e.g. here's some cowboy ranting about "Indian casinos": http://www.advisor.com/boomer/blogs/richard-rider/indian-casino-profits-revealed Yeah, was confusing it with PC Magazine, sorry Ziff-Davis. FoxPro Advisor is defunct in any case, while Microsoft decided to stop touting upgrades post VPF9 (which I own, used for Regional Heart Data Services in the good old days, before they moved on, other clients). My article, on using Quadray Coordinates to generate the concentric hierarchy of polyhedra (verboten knowledge in Lower48 as the inventor only had 42 honorary degrees, didn't make up for flunking out of Harvard cuzza that "porn troupe" incident (see Wikipedia)). More details on my article from ten years ago: http://mathforum.org/kb/message.jspa?messageID=1091967&tstart=0 Just wanting to keep the record clear, in case someone's trying to piece it together someday. KIrby 4D From rami at typethink.com Wed Jun 17 04:26:46 2009 From: rami at typethink.com (Rami Kassab) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:26:46 -0700 Subject: [portland] django coders? In-Reply-To: <4c645a720906160624m2a4d93c5k1c37cc25ee62cddd@mail.gmail.com> References: <4c645a720906081243i722bec10h265037326aca8582@mail.gmail.com> <88d85d160906081251v4be7ca68h8726ea03944a06ec@mail.gmail.com> <4A35C1D1.3080805@taupro.com> <88d85d160906151130s6f1159aeve53d59ba8526f59a@mail.gmail.com> <4A3720A8.3090406@taupro.com> <4c645a720906160624m2a4d93c5k1c37cc25ee62cddd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <88d85d160906161926q66c3dba2wdcb8547807ed75c8@mail.gmail.com> Dylan, well said. Jeff, the thing to keep in mind about developers is that even though their organization may be forcing a specific language on them, developers often pickup languages and do their own small projects on the side. It's these developers that eventually influence even the senior devs. So, you can either selectively target the individual senior devs, which probably isn't the best marketing strategy because there's significantly less of them so your chance of success is impeded. Alternatively, you could do something similar to what Ruby on Rails did (but without the stupid ego and attitude) and market to smaller developers, who will eventually either become senior developers or will influence their superiors into trying Python out. Also, I don't know where I hinted that there's strong demand for Python but I definitely didn't mean that. We do have to push Python onto most of our clients. For the most part, in fact, clients don't necessarily even care what language the application is written in... as long as it functions. Larger clients do of course. Nonetheless, rarely is their first choice Python. Using Python is our decision and we've made a commitment to help excel it. If we supported Django, Pylons, TurboGears, etc and helped other web firms adopt Python, Python will become significantly more popular. It's the early adopters that influence the rest. It's as simple as this, a particular language needs more advocates before it really takes off. You need advocates on the junior and senior level within an organization. The more the merrier. I don't think anyone in their right mind would argue that having more people positively advocating Python would be detrimental to it's marketing success. Now if there's a particular group you're trying to avoid such as the less committed developers then the marketing strategy becomes a bit more complicated. Essentially, you have to carefully select the avenues you market the language through, which, in turn, lessens the amount of overall momentum your campaign will be able to pickup. This naturally will set us behind other more aggressive campaigns like that of Ruby on Rails. Just throwing more thoughts out. This is an important discussion for the future of Python, in my opinion, and we should debate this maturely and as much as possible until a solid strategy is developed and executed. -- *Rami Kassab* - Chief Executive Officer M 503.888.8605 rami at typethink.com LinkedIn Profile *Typethink* - Creative Web Firm P 503.626.6231 F 503.626.6233 111 SW 5th Ave., Suite 1000 Portland, OR 97204 www.typethink.com On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 6:24 AM, Dylan Reinhardt wrote: > On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 9:33 PM, Jeff Rush wrote: > > > Rami Kassab wrote: > > > Jeff, was mainly referring to marketing itself better to developers. > > While > > > we work to get our clients to agree to having Python development, it's > > not > > > something that our clients come asking us to do right off the bat. > > > > It is an interesting issue but I think you're in conflict ;-) with > > Dylan's viewpoint: > > > That's not how I read that comment. > Very few clients go looking for Python, but it's easy to get clients > to *evaluate* Python. Most people are open to hearing about a key > tool used by Google, et al. > > The tough part of the sell comes when the client wants to know who they can > turn to for support if you get hit by a bus. There's not a lot of excess > capacity out there and if you're a solo practitioner, the lack of available > support can be a deal-breaker. > > So it may be the case that we're individually busy and individually able to > create Python gigs... but none of that activity seems to create the > impression that there's much reason for Java or VB coders to make the leap. > That's where some decent marketing would come in. > > But slow and steady growth will eventually work too. It looks like PCC > will > be offering a class in Python this Fall. I forget if it got posted here or > not, but MIT is now teaching Python in their intro class. Over the long > run, we'll grow. It's just that the way we're doing it, > it's going to take a lot of patience. > > $.02, > > Dylan > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.python.org/pipermail/portland/attachments/20090616/a65b6a11/attachment.htm > > > _______________________________________________ > Portland mailing list > Portland at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirby.urner at gmail.com Wed Jun 17 05:03:52 2009 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 20:03:52 -0700 Subject: [portland] django coders? In-Reply-To: <88d85d160906161926q66c3dba2wdcb8547807ed75c8@mail.gmail.com> References: <4c645a720906081243i722bec10h265037326aca8582@mail.gmail.com> <88d85d160906081251v4be7ca68h8726ea03944a06ec@mail.gmail.com> <4A35C1D1.3080805@taupro.com> <88d85d160906151130s6f1159aeve53d59ba8526f59a@mail.gmail.com> <4A3720A8.3090406@taupro.com> <4c645a720906160624m2a4d93c5k1c37cc25ee62cddd@mail.gmail.com> <88d85d160906161926q66c3dba2wdcb8547807ed75c8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 7:26 PM, Rami Kassab wrote: << SNIP >> > Just throwing more thoughts out. This is an important discussion for > the future of Python, in my opinion, and we should debate this > maturely > and as much as possible until a solid strategy is developed and executed. > Plus don't forget the XO, something of a flagship given Sugar, even if you're not an XO fan (plus they're hard to come by in Lower48 these days). A lot of kids are first tuning in programming (in Python) thanks to Pippy. http://worldgame.blogspot.com/2009/01/saving-children.html http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=G1G1&w=17157315%40N00 Although there's this theory a developer will seek the best language for the job and learn it, proof to the contrary is many are still using VB or (shudder) VB dot net. This is a group Kevin Altis went after, one of our savvier marketers (helped inject that term "agile" in response to "scripting"...). His PythonCard was a solo attempt to duplicate Microsoft's vast GUI tool product development team (Visual Studio division), which could also do more with IronPython (or maybe is and I'm just not in the loop?). Any gossip? In actuality, many developers just use whatever they already know (like Bill Gates knew BASIC), and that means whatever they learned in school, maybe as a part of some CS curriculum. Until rather recently, that was C++ or Java or maybe Scheme at MIT, but the world keeps spinning, and today it's all about Python in a lot of schools. Not just MIT, as Dylan pointed out, nor just PCC. Michigan State, Haverford... a growing list. Because of this, you may find some frustrating complacency that, as developers, you should fight. I think the thinking at the top is that Python is destined to have large market share in niche markets that matter (e.g. web development ala Google App Engine **) simply because the CS schools are already growing a small army. So sit back and relax, nothing to worry about. Just my sense. Also Jeff Rush's point is a good one, that a lot of rich companies are keeping it a secret (my allusion to Iceland earlier, where Twisted folks keep like 52K paying users happy, or whatever it is, multi-user games). Pycon, even in a recession, looked like a lot of guys with money to burn, or at least that's the talk if not the walk. As for myself, I couldn't afford to stay at Hyatt Regency on my meager income, hospitals being so cost conscious and all, especially Catholic ones. Django appears to have a bright future as well, although KM & Co. are already bracing for the what the backlash might be (when the detractors decide Python is just being a little *too* successful). Like for Ruby, detractors started the rumor that Ruby "doesn't scale" and KM showed like 3 million hits on that, "but of course Ruby scales fine" he added, aware of how easy it is to mislead a mob (especially of pointy haired bosses, who mostly haunt gossip sites and know nothing whatever about Computer Programming for Everyone (Guido's CP4E)). I agree with Rami that this is an important discussion, happening in many threads running in parallel. User groups, in being a potential source of branding ideas, localized swag, plus free Python Briefings to the general public, are at the forefront of marketing this language and should involve themselves actively. I'm glad to see our Portland list isn't just sitting idle on this topic (nyah nyah Chicago -- oops, sorry, you said "maturely"). My thanks to Dylan et al for keeping the pot bubbling. Kirby Urner (PSF 09) CSN CMO coffeeshopsnet.blogspot.com Hawthorne District (birthplace of the Silicon Forest) ** the new O'Reilly book is out on Google App Engine, me listed as a technical consultant ahem ahem (my thanks to Dr. Chuck and O'Reilly both, for this opportunity to weigh in a little, appreciated!). > -- > *Rami Kassab* - Chief Executive Officer > M 503.888.8605 > rami at typethink.com > LinkedIn Profile > > *Typethink* - Creative Web Firm > P 503.626.6231 > F 503.626.6233 > 111 SW 5th Ave., Suite 1000 > Portland, OR 97204 > www.typethink.com > > > On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 6:24 AM, Dylan Reinhardt > wrote: > >> On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 9:33 PM, Jeff Rush wrote: >> >> > Rami Kassab wrote: >> > > Jeff, was mainly referring to marketing itself better to developers. >> > While >> > > we work to get our clients to agree to having Python development, it's >> > not >> > > something that our clients come asking us to do right off the bat. >> > >> > It is an interesting issue but I think you're in conflict ;-) with >> > Dylan's viewpoint: >> >> >> That's not how I read that comment. >> ?Very few clients go looking for Python, but it's easy to get clients >> to *evaluate* Python. ?Most people are open to hearing about a key >> tool used by Google, et al. >> >> The tough part of the sell comes when the client wants to know who they can >> turn to for support if you get hit by a bus. ?There's not a lot of excess >> capacity out there and if you're a solo practitioner, the lack of available >> support can be a deal-breaker. >> >> So it may be the case that we're individually busy and individually able to >> create Python gigs... but none of that activity seems to create the >> impression that there's much reason for Java or VB coders to make the leap. >> ?That's where some decent marketing would come in. >> >> But slow and steady growth will eventually work too. ?It looks like PCC >> will >> be offering a class in Python this Fall. ?I forget if it got posted here or >> not, but MIT is now teaching Python in their intro class. ?Over the long >> run, we'll grow. ?It's just that the way we're doing it, >> it's going to take a lot of patience. >> >> $.02, >> >> Dylan >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: < >> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/portland/attachments/20090616/a65b6a11/attachment.htm >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Portland mailing list >> Portland at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > _______________________________________________ > Portland mailing list > Portland at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland > From kirby.urner at gmail.com Wed Jun 17 05:33:43 2009 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 20:33:43 -0700 Subject: [portland] django coders? In-Reply-To: References: <4c645a720906081243i722bec10h265037326aca8582@mail.gmail.com> <88d85d160906081251v4be7ca68h8726ea03944a06ec@mail.gmail.com> <4A35C1D1.3080805@taupro.com> <88d85d160906151130s6f1159aeve53d59ba8526f59a@mail.gmail.com> <4A3720A8.3090406@taupro.com> <4c645a720906160624m2a4d93c5k1c37cc25ee62cddd@mail.gmail.com> <88d85d160906161926q66c3dba2wdcb8547807ed75c8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 8:03 PM, kirby urner wrote: << SNIP >> > His PythonCard was a solo attempt to duplicate Microsoft's vast GUI > tool product development team (Visual Studio division), which could > also do more with IronPython (or maybe is and I'm just not in the > loop?). ?Any gossip? > Sorry, not entirely solo, especially once you count Robin Dunn's wxPython (PythonCard wraps wx with a simpler API, one could say, kind of like VPython provides a simpler facade for OpenGL -- OK analogy?). Kirby From jeff at taupro.com Wed Jun 17 06:17:53 2009 From: jeff at taupro.com (Jeff Rush) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 23:17:53 -0500 Subject: [portland] django coders? In-Reply-To: <88d85d160906161926q66c3dba2wdcb8547807ed75c8@mail.gmail.com> References: <4c645a720906081243i722bec10h265037326aca8582@mail.gmail.com> <88d85d160906081251v4be7ca68h8726ea03944a06ec@mail.gmail.com> <4A35C1D1.3080805@taupro.com> <88d85d160906151130s6f1159aeve53d59ba8526f59a@mail.gmail.com> <4A3720A8.3090406@taupro.com> <4c645a720906160624m2a4d93c5k1c37cc25ee62cddd@mail.gmail.com> <88d85d160906161926q66c3dba2wdcb8547807ed75c8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A386E71.1050103@taupro.com> Rami Kassab wrote: > > Also, I don't know where I hinted that there's strong demand for Python but > I definitely didn't mean that. We do have to push Python onto most of our > clients. Perhaps it was someone else on the list; it may be the level in the developer hierarchy that matters, in that it is companies like yours that are seeking Python developers to fulfill projects, not the downstream clients who don't care about the language. > For the most part, in fact, clients don't necessarily even care > what language the application is written in... as long as it functions. > Larger clients do of course. Nonetheless, rarely is their first choice > Python. Using Python is our decision and we've made a commitment to help > excel it. If we supported Django, Pylons, TurboGears, etc and helped other > web firms adopt Python, Python will become significantly more popular. It's > the early adopters that influence the rest. Agreed, and Python does have a lot of advocates in key positions but we're not the leader in the web nor education market. Python is very strong in the scientific sectors as well as sysadmin/infrastructure. The education sector is weak because of the (relatively) few programmers except for Kirby in positions to influence it. The XO was a big hope but it really isn't setting the education world on fire - more of a slow simmer sadly. The web sector is weakened by the diversity of web frameworks we have, by the difficulty is communicating a focused message along with failure to educate those coming to Python for the web in how to select the correct framework. > It's as simple as this, a particular language needs more advocates before it > really takes off. You need advocates on the junior and senior level within > an organization. The more the merrier. There is good progress with grassroot communities - an increase in usergroup formation, the rise of regional Python conferences. Still not a lot of progress in cross-pollination of communities though - we're getting our first Python booth at OSCON, and there are few Python talks or booths at non-Python events. Python developers seem to prefer hanging out with other Python developers. With the quality video taping this year of talks at PyCon being placed on the net, we are increasing our visibility to non-Python folk. > Just throwing more thoughts out. This is an important discussion for > the future of Python, in my opinion, and we should debate this > maturely and as much as possible until a solid strategy is developed > and executed. I was the Advocacy Coordinator for the Python Software Foundation (and still am informally) so this topic is important to me. There is a python-advocacy mailing list we could discuss further on -- I don't know if the portland usergroup may mind a long thread like this on their list. http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/advocacy A number of us could descend on that list and inject some life into it. ;-) It's a low-traffic list but has 147 members on it. Beware though a problem I encountered with executing a strategy as Advocacy Coordinator was the difficult in showing statistical improvement in the adoption of Python. You can point to whitepapers, conference appearances, pod/screencasts, usergroups formed and conferences held but cannot show a correlation between effort and results. Indeed that is the argument of those opposed to wasting further resources on advocacy efforts: that Python is becoming popular by its own technical merits and one cannot truly show how any marketing activities improve on that. For them marketing is snake oil that either does not affect the world or does so in a dishonorable fashion. They believe passionately that the better technical solution -should- win. But I'm persistent and game to push on, to kick off a discussion on the advocacy list and see what we can do. If others will join in. -Jeff From brian at dorseys.org Wed Jun 17 06:43:38 2009 From: brian at dorseys.org (Brian Dorsey) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:43:38 -0700 Subject: [portland] Free ticket to Open Source Bridge. Message-ID: <66e877b70906162143q3381f4f5jcb779e867abf33cc@mail.gmail.com> I turns out that I'm not going to make it down to Portland for OS Bridge (starting tormorrow!) It looks like I can transfer the ticket to someone else, so if you've got time to go, let me know and I'll give you my 'ticket' Take care, -Brian From kirby.urner at gmail.com Wed Jun 17 08:43:31 2009 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 23:43:31 -0700 Subject: [portland] django coders? In-Reply-To: <4A386E71.1050103@taupro.com> References: <4c645a720906081243i722bec10h265037326aca8582@mail.gmail.com> <88d85d160906081251v4be7ca68h8726ea03944a06ec@mail.gmail.com> <4A35C1D1.3080805@taupro.com> <88d85d160906151130s6f1159aeve53d59ba8526f59a@mail.gmail.com> <4A3720A8.3090406@taupro.com> <4c645a720906160624m2a4d93c5k1c37cc25ee62cddd@mail.gmail.com> <88d85d160906161926q66c3dba2wdcb8547807ed75c8@mail.gmail.com> <4A386E71.1050103@taupro.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 9:17 PM, Jeff Rush wrote: << SNIP >> > The education sector is weak because of the (relatively) few programmers > except for Kirby in positions to influence it. ?The XO was a big hope > but it really isn't setting the education world on fire - more of a slow > simmer sadly. Thanks for the reality check and acknowledgment Jeff. Very true our education sector is weak relative to what I'd like to see: an agile computer language to chew on when learning high school mathematics (yum!), not black boxy calculators with those tiny screens and no polyhedra! I talked to at Scott Gray at Pycon about O'Reilly's plans to use Mathematica in Eclipse to certify, see Google is involved in teacher certification as well (something going in Colorado). Whether the Python community rises to this challenge remains to be seen. Software Association of Oregon is talking "digital math track", thinks this Litvins text is a step in the right direction, though no one is saying it's the final word: http://www.skylit.com/mathandpython.html I've just published my slides for the OS Bridge conference starting tomorrow, in some ways a recap of what I've been up to, helping to give a sense of my direction / momentum: http://coffeeshopsnet.blogspot.com/2009/06/os-bridge-conference.html (links to PDF, won't make as much sense without the narrative, but gives the flavor at least). I look forward to seeing some of you there. Given I'm so focused on the education sector, I'll revert to edu-sig as my principal archive for brainstorming / marketing along those lines. We welcome new joiners. I might post to Advocacy too though, thanks for the reminder about it. More later, Kirby From brian at dorseys.org Wed Jun 17 09:41:10 2009 From: brian at dorseys.org (Brian Dorsey) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 00:41:10 -0700 Subject: [portland] Free ticket to Open Source Bridge. In-Reply-To: <66e877b70906162143q3381f4f5jcb779e867abf33cc@mail.gmail.com> References: <66e877b70906162143q3381f4f5jcb779e867abf33cc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <66e877b70906170041p1a825db7me5a8149796d8ac5b@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 9:43 PM, Brian Dorsey wrote: > It looks like I can transfer the ticket to someone else, so if you've > got time to go, let me know and I'll give you my 'ticket' Thanks for the interest everyone! The ticket is taken. Take care, -Brian From list at phaedrusdeinus.org Wed Jun 17 09:21:47 2009 From: list at phaedrusdeinus.org (John Melesky) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 00:21:47 -0700 Subject: [portland] dongle dongle Message-ID: I seem to be missing my macbook mini-dvi->vga dongle, which was last deployed for my darcs talk at the python meeting a few weeks back. Any chance that someone picked it up that meeting? I may have misplaced it in the intervening time, but can't think of an instance where i would have. Alternately, would anyone be willing to loan me their dongle for the next couple days? I need such a thing for my OS Bridge talks, and would rather not have to make an early-morning Apple Store run if i can avoid it. Thanks. -johnnnnnnn From robertuva at gmail.com Wed Jun 17 15:04:28 2009 From: robertuva at gmail.com (Bob Uva) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 06:04:28 -0700 Subject: [portland] dongle dongle In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: John, I can lend you mine. I'll be at OS Bridge. Should be arriving around 8-ish. I'm fairly new to the pdx python group. Check out my picture on twitter/bobuva. Or just call me on my cell at 503-810-6387. Bob On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 12:21 AM, John Melesky wrote: > I seem to be missing my macbook mini-dvi->vga dongle, which was last > deployed for my darcs talk at the python meeting a few weeks back. Any > chance that someone picked it up that meeting? I may have misplaced it in > the intervening time, but can't think of an instance where i would have. > > Alternately, would anyone be willing to loan me their dongle for the next > couple days? I need such a thing for my OS Bridge talks, and would rather > not have to make an early-morning Apple Store run if i can avoid it. > > Thanks. > > -johnnnnnnn > > _______________________________________________ > Portland mailing list > Portland at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland > -- Bob Uva Portland, OR mobile: 503-810-6387 eMail: robertuva at gmail.com blog: http://www.bobuva.com twitter: bobuva -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From list at phaedrusdeinus.org Wed Jun 17 15:42:58 2009 From: list at phaedrusdeinus.org (John Melesky) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 06:42:58 -0700 Subject: [portland] dongle dongle In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <497693CF-53B1-4CF1-8942-05229988CC82@phaedrusdeinus.org> Crisis averted. Said dongle was "tidied" by my girlfriend, and has been reunited with its macbook. You may go about your business. -johnnnnnn On Jun 17, 2009, at 12:21 AM, John Melesky wrote: > I seem to be missing my macbook mini-dvi->vga dongle, which was last > deployed for my darcs talk at the python meeting a few weeks back. > Any chance that someone picked it up that meeting? I may have > misplaced it in the intervening time, but can't think of an instance > where i would have. > > Alternately, would anyone be willing to loan me their dongle for the > next couple days? I need such a thing for my OS Bridge talks, and > would rather not have to make an early-morning Apple Store run if i > can avoid it. > > Thanks. > > -johnnnnnnn > > _______________________________________________ > Portland mailing list > Portland at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland > From jek at discorporate.us Sat Jun 20 03:52:15 2009 From: jek at discorporate.us (jason kirtland) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 18:52:15 -0700 Subject: [portland] Postponed: Summer Coders Social Message-ID: <4A3C40CF.6070904@discorporate.us> Pythonistas, Tomorrow's Summer Coders Social has been postponed due to rain. It will likely be rescheduled for July or August. Further details as they come in. -Jason From jek at discorporate.us Sat Jun 20 02:50:00 2009 From: jek at discorporate.us (jason kirtland) Date: 19 Jun 2009 17:50:00 -0700 Subject: [portland] Postponed: Summer Coders Social Message-ID: <3328278616.5018273@mail.discorporate.us> Pythonistas, Tomorrow's Summer Coders Social has been postponed due to rain. It will likely be rescheduled for July or August. Further details as they come in. -Jason From matt at youell.com Sun Jun 21 01:35:33 2009 From: matt at youell.com (Matt Youell) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 16:35:33 -0700 Subject: [portland] Looking for person who came up after talk Message-ID: <4A3D7245.2060907@youell.com> A few people came up to chat with me after the Spindle/Metaprogram talk on Wednesday at OS Bridge. One guy in particular had some ideas for how to improve my guard implementation. Unfortunately his ideas and his name fell out of my head. He seemed pretty knowledgeable about Python and I figure there's a shot that he's local. If you are that guy, please send an email my way. I've had sleep and am fairly adrenaline-free now so I might be able to actually retain what you have to say. :) Thanks! -- -/matt/- http://youell.com/matt From kirby.urner at gmail.com Mon Jun 22 07:44:33 2009 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 22:44:33 -0700 Subject: [portland] OS Bridge followups Message-ID: Greetings PPUGers, and yes I should twitter this too. Great conference, and of course we each create our own experience of it to some degree, me coming with my "math teacher" orientation. Here are links to some follow-ups, including to slides FYI. I for one would appreciate others using this list to register their blog links, other OS Bridge fall-out, stipulating "Python related" (implied). Followups: http://mathforum.org/kb/thread.jspa?threadID=1958868&tstart=0 (Math Forum @ Drexel) http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/2009-June/009408.html (Python Nation) http://coffeeshopsnet.blogspot.com/ (slides, scroll down to June 19) Kirby Urner 4dsolutions.net "Mathematical Canvas" (OCN) PS: also posted a link to our sister user group in Manila (a googlegroup though, have to use ID) From dylanr at dylanreinhardt.com Mon Jun 22 16:39:55 2009 From: dylanr at dylanreinhardt.com (Dylan Reinhardt) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 07:39:55 -0700 Subject: [portland] OS Bridge followups In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4c645a720906220739p40e1a98cra839f563e8b14b7b@mail.gmail.com> My slides/code from OS Bridge are here: http://dylanreinhardt.com/osb.zip This is for "Django: Thinking Outside the Blog". Any word on when/where the audio recordings are going to be available? Dylan On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 10:44 PM, kirby urner wrote: > Greetings PPUGers, and yes I should twitter this too. > > Great conference, and of course we each create our own experience of > it to some degree, me coming with my "math teacher" orientation. > > Here are links to some follow-ups, including to slides FYI. > > I for one would appreciate others using this list to register their > blog links, other OS Bridge fall-out, stipulating "Python related" > (implied). > > Followups: > > http://mathforum.org/kb/thread.jspa?threadID=1958868&tstart=0 (Math > Forum @ Drexel) > http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/2009-June/009408.html (Python > Nation) > http://coffeeshopsnet.blogspot.com/ (slides, scroll down to June 19) > > Kirby Urner > 4dsolutions.net > "Mathematical Canvas" (OCN) > > PS: also posted a link to our sister user group in Manila (a > googlegroup though, have to use ID) > _______________________________________________ > Portland mailing list > Portland at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From michael at susens-schurter.com Mon Jun 22 23:14:51 2009 From: michael at susens-schurter.com (Michael Schurter) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 14:14:51 -0700 Subject: [portland] OS Bridge followups In-Reply-To: <4c645a720906220739p40e1a98cra839f563e8b14b7b@mail.gmail.com> References: <4c645a720906220739p40e1a98cra839f563e8b14b7b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <240b71640906221414lc06faa2t754d2feca58cb74@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 7:39 AM, Dylan Reinhardt wrote: > My slides/code from OS Bridge are here: > > http://dylanreinhardt.com/osb.zip > > This is for "Django: Thinking Outside the Blog". Great job Dylan. Been using Django for nearly 2 years and still learned plenty. Anyone who's willing to demo many-to-many relationship related code gets my respect! :-) > Any word on when/where the audio recordings are going to be available? Not that I've heard. My slides for Web Server Shootout are here: http://michael.susens-schurter.com/blog/2009/06/18/web-server-shootout-slides/ Please take the post-conference survey if you attended: (link at the bottom) http://www.chesnok.com/daily/2009/06/20/open-source-bridge-thank-you-all/ Great job to Dylan and Michel P! Sorry to say those are the only pdxpythoner talks I was able to make it to. Too many good talks! Many thanks to those who encouraged Bob Ippolito to attend and give his Drop ACID talk. One of the most objective, information dense, interesting, and practical talks I've ever attended. From jek at discorporate.us Tue Jun 23 21:04:36 2009 From: jek at discorporate.us (jason kirtland) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 12:04:36 -0700 Subject: [portland] Rescheduled: Summer Coders Social July 26th In-Reply-To: <3328278616.5018273@mail.discorporate.us> References: <3328278616.5018273@mail.discorporate.us> Message-ID: <4A412744.7040208@discorporate.us> It's back on: the Summer Coders Social will be on Sunday, July 26th from noon to 5pm at Laurelhurst park. More info and maps here: http://upcoming.yahoo.com/event/2806106/ Fun, sun, games and BBQ. Hope to see everyone there! Cheers, Jason From dcarter at mercycorps.org Tue Jun 23 21:15:05 2009 From: dcarter at mercycorps.org (Doug Carter) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 12:15:05 -0700 Subject: [portland] OS Bridge followups In-Reply-To: <240b71640906221414lc06faa2t754d2feca58cb74@mail.gmail.com> References: <4c645a720906220739p40e1a98cra839f563e8b14b7b@mail.gmail.com> <240b71640906221414lc06faa2t754d2feca58cb74@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090623191505.GA18252@mercycorps.org> On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 02:14:51PM -0700, Michael Schurter wrote: > On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 7:39 AM, Dylan > Reinhardt wrote: > > My slides/code from OS Bridge are here: > > > > http://dylanreinhardt.com/osb.zip > > > > This is for "Django: Thinking Outside the Blog". > > Great job Dylan. Been using Django for nearly 2 years and still > learned plenty. Anyone who's willing to demo many-to-many > relationship related code gets my respect! :-) Yeah! I'll concur. Thanks for taking the time to put this together Dylan. Doug > > Any word on when/where the audio recordings are going to be available? > > Not that I've heard. > > My slides for Web Server Shootout are here: > > http://michael.susens-schurter.com/blog/2009/06/18/web-server-shootout-slides/ > > > Please take the post-conference survey if you attended: (link at the bottom) > > http://www.chesnok.com/daily/2009/06/20/open-source-bridge-thank-you-all/ > > > Great job to Dylan and Michel P! Sorry to say those are the only > pdxpythoner talks I was able to make it to. Too many good talks! > Many thanks to those who encouraged Bob Ippolito to attend and give > his Drop ACID talk. One of the most objective, information dense, > interesting, and practical talks I've ever attended. > _______________________________________________ > Portland mailing list > Portland at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland From rami at typethink.com Tue Jun 23 21:16:54 2009 From: rami at typethink.com (Rami Kassab) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 12:16:54 -0700 Subject: [portland] OS Bridge followups In-Reply-To: <20090623191505.GA18252@mercycorps.org> References: <4c645a720906220739p40e1a98cra839f563e8b14b7b@mail.gmail.com> <240b71640906221414lc06faa2t754d2feca58cb74@mail.gmail.com> <20090623191505.GA18252@mercycorps.org> Message-ID: <88d85d160906231216h3d72af4cr120367cd918d7a9a@mail.gmail.com> Dylan, I went through your slides and enjoyed the material. Thanks for the presentation. I forwarded it off to some other fellow Python friends who don't follow this list. Great work... -- *Rami Kassab* - Chief Executive Officer M 503.888.8605 rami at typethink.com LinkedIn Profile *Typethink* - Creative Web Firm P 503.626.6231 F 503.626.6233 111 SW 5th Ave., Suite 1000 Portland, OR 97204 www.typethink.com On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 12:15 PM, Doug Carter wrote: > On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 02:14:51PM -0700, Michael Schurter wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 7:39 AM, Dylan > > Reinhardt wrote: > > > My slides/code from OS Bridge are here: > > > > > > http://dylanreinhardt.com/osb.zip > > > > > > This is for "Django: Thinking Outside the Blog". > > > > Great job Dylan. Been using Django for nearly 2 years and still > > learned plenty. Anyone who's willing to demo many-to-many > > relationship related code gets my respect! :-) > > Yeah! I'll concur. Thanks for taking the time to put this together Dylan. > > > Doug > > > > > Any word on when/where the audio recordings are going to be available? > > > > Not that I've heard. > > > > My slides for Web Server Shootout are here: > > > > > http://michael.susens-schurter.com/blog/2009/06/18/web-server-shootout-slides/ > > > > > > Please take the post-conference survey if you attended: (link at the > bottom) > > > > > http://www.chesnok.com/daily/2009/06/20/open-source-bridge-thank-you-all/ > > > > > > Great job to Dylan and Michel P! Sorry to say those are the only > > pdxpythoner talks I was able to make it to. Too many good talks! > > Many thanks to those who encouraged Bob Ippolito to attend and give > > his Drop ACID talk. One of the most objective, information dense, > > interesting, and practical talks I've ever attended. > > _______________________________________________ > > Portland mailing list > > Portland at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland > _______________________________________________ > Portland mailing list > Portland at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From python at dylanreinhardt.com Tue Jun 23 21:37:47 2009 From: python at dylanreinhardt.com (Dylan Reinhardt) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 12:37:47 -0700 Subject: [portland] OS Bridge followups In-Reply-To: <88d85d160906231216h3d72af4cr120367cd918d7a9a@mail.gmail.com> References: <4c645a720906220739p40e1a98cra839f563e8b14b7b@mail.gmail.com> <240b71640906221414lc06faa2t754d2feca58cb74@mail.gmail.com> <20090623191505.GA18252@mercycorps.org> <88d85d160906231216h3d72af4cr120367cd918d7a9a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4c645a720906231237v4745d9a8s6ef6c3346432cb7f@mail.gmail.com> Thanks for the feedback, everyone... I'm glad the presentation was worth doing. The slides should make more sense once the audio is up, whenever that happens. Dylan On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 12:16 PM, Rami Kassab wrote: > Dylan, I went through your slides and enjoyed the material. Thanks for the > presentation. I forwarded it off to some other fellow Python friends who > don't follow this list. Great work... > > -- > *Rami Kassab* - Chief Executive Officer > M 503.888.8605 > rami at typethink.com > LinkedIn Profile > > *Typethink* - Creative Web Firm > P 503.626.6231 > F 503.626.6233 > 111 SW 5th Ave., Suite 1000 > Portland, OR 97204 > www.typethink.com > > > On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 12:15 PM, Doug Carter >wrote: > > > On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 02:14:51PM -0700, Michael Schurter wrote: > > > On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 7:39 AM, Dylan > > > Reinhardt wrote: > > > > My slides/code from OS Bridge are here: > > > > > > > > http://dylanreinhardt.com/osb.zip > > > > > > > > This is for "Django: Thinking Outside the Blog". > > > > > > Great job Dylan. Been using Django for nearly 2 years and still > > > learned plenty. Anyone who's willing to demo many-to-many > > > relationship related code gets my respect! :-) > > > > Yeah! I'll concur. Thanks for taking the time to put this together Dylan. > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > Any word on when/where the audio recordings are going to be > available? > > > > > > Not that I've heard. > > > > > > My slides for Web Server Shootout are here: > > > > > > > > > http://michael.susens-schurter.com/blog/2009/06/18/web-server-shootout-slides/ > > > > > > > > > Please take the post-conference survey if you attended: (link at the > > bottom) > > > > > > > > > http://www.chesnok.com/daily/2009/06/20/open-source-bridge-thank-you-all/ > > > > > > > > > Great job to Dylan and Michel P! Sorry to say those are the only > > > pdxpythoner talks I was able to make it to. Too many good talks! > > > Many thanks to those who encouraged Bob Ippolito to attend and give > > > his Drop ACID talk. One of the most objective, information dense, > > > interesting, and practical talks I've ever attended. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Portland mailing list > > > Portland at python.org > > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland > > _______________________________________________ > > Portland mailing list > > Portland at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.python.org/pipermail/portland/attachments/20090623/9aa62df6/attachment.htm > > > _______________________________________________ > Portland mailing list > Portland at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirby.urner at gmail.com Tue Jun 23 22:34:15 2009 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:34:15 -0700 Subject: [portland] OS Bridge followups In-Reply-To: <4c645a720906231237v4745d9a8s6ef6c3346432cb7f@mail.gmail.com> References: <4c645a720906220739p40e1a98cra839f563e8b14b7b@mail.gmail.com> <240b71640906221414lc06faa2t754d2feca58cb74@mail.gmail.com> <20090623191505.GA18252@mercycorps.org> <88d85d160906231216h3d72af4cr120367cd918d7a9a@mail.gmail.com> <4c645a720906231237v4745d9a8s6ef6c3346432cb7f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Dylan Reinhardt wrote: > Thanks for the feedback, everyone... I'm glad the presentation was worth > doing. ?The slides should make more sense once the audio is up, whenever > that happens. > > Dylan > +1 Kirby From markgross at thegnar.org Wed Jun 24 05:59:09 2009 From: markgross at thegnar.org (mgross) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 20:59:09 -0700 Subject: [portland] request review of my blog posting about setting up Django on a Vbox guest. Message-ID: <20090624035909.GA20920@thegnar.org> Last Friday I skipped out on the OS bridge un-conference and instead attempted to bring up a Django apache2, mod-wsgi, postgres virtual guest server on my home system using VBox. In an attempt to not forget all the bits need to bring this all up I blogged it. The only problem I have is my setup isn't working for shared django sites and "reverse" doesn't redirect to the correct URL, it clips off the prefex. I would like to have multiple Django progjects served up from teh one VBox guest. i.e. http://10.1.1.2/mysite and http://10.1.1.2/myothersite are two separate Django projects. Anyway as I'm making the mistake of posting these notes I would be most grateful for any review, commentary and pointers offered. There where a fair amount of steps to bring things up. Thanks, --mgross PS, I'm also new to wordpress so the formatting sucks, and the WP configuration is likely crap too.... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From markgross at thegnar.org Wed Jun 24 06:01:39 2009 From: markgross at thegnar.org (mgross) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 21:01:39 -0700 Subject: [portland] request review of my blog posting about setting up Django on a Vbox guest. In-Reply-To: <20090624035909.GA20920@thegnar.org> References: <20090624035909.GA20920@thegnar.org> Message-ID: <20090624040139.GB21130@thegnar.org> I can't believe I forgot to include the URL to my blog. http://thegnar.org/sync/ duh, --mgross On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 08:59:09PM -0700, mgross wrote: > Last Friday I skipped out on the OS bridge un-conference and instead > attempted to bring up a Django apache2, mod-wsgi, postgres virtual > guest server on my home system using VBox. > > In an attempt to not forget all the bits need to bring this all up I > blogged it. > > The only problem I have is my setup isn't working for shared django > sites and "reverse" doesn't redirect to the correct URL, it clips off > the prefex. I would like to have multiple Django progjects served up > from teh one VBox guest. i.e. http://10.1.1.2/mysite and > http://10.1.1.2/myothersite are two separate Django projects. > > Anyway as I'm making the mistake of posting these notes I would be > most grateful for any review, commentary and pointers offered. > > There where a fair amount of steps to bring things up. > > Thanks, > > --mgross > > PS, I'm also new to wordpress so the formatting sucks, and the WP > configuration is likely crap too.... > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: not available > Type: application/pgp-signature > Size: 197 bytes > Desc: Digital signature > URL: > _______________________________________________ > Portland mailing list > Portland at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From michelle at pdxpython.org Wed Jun 24 09:34:40 2009 From: michelle at pdxpython.org (michelle rowley) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 00:34:40 -0700 Subject: [portland] June Python meeting recap! Message-ID: <813046e40906240034t1350442re3216199d3fb410c@mail.gmail.com> Hey Pythoneers! Although it's somewhat late in coming, I wanted to send a recap of the last Portland Python Users' Group meeting. We had a great turnout of about 40ish peeps, with roughly 25 joining us afterward at Produce Row for drinks, discussion and whatnot. This was our final meeting at CubeSpace PDX, who has been generous enough to share their space with us for the last two years. Thanks David, Eva and everyone at CubeSpace for supporting us! You will be missed by our community and many others in Portland. We're doing our best to find a new home, and we'll get the word out as soon as we have a plan for next month. To kick off the June meeting, Michel P. did his own Monthly Module, giving us an overview of itertools. When you're iterating over large sets, use itertools to cut down on processing power. Conserve your cycles (thanks, C!). Since then I've seen several positive mentions of itertools on the Freenode IRC channel (#pdxpython), so it seems like this info has increased our per capita usage of this module! Next, Joel Bernstein gave us an overview of quite a few screen scraping tools he's worked with, including Beautiful Soup (http://www.crummy.com/software/BeautifulSoup/), lxml (http://codespeak.net/lxml/), htmllib5 (http://pydoc.org/2.5.1/htmllib.html ??), SAX Events (http://www.saxproject.org/event.html), mechanize (Perl - http://wwwsearch.sourceforge.net/mechanize/), and templatemaker (Python - http://code.google.com/p/templatemaker/). He's done up an excellent example with BeautifulSoup that I'm sure he'd be willing to share if you didn't catch it at the meeting. We finished off the evening with lightning talks: Kevin Turner shared a Glimpse of Glashammer (http://glashammer.org/), a Python web framework. It aims to "reinvent zero wheels", and uses Werkzeug, Jinja, and WTForms. It even has a "start a new Google App Engine app" starter script! Kevin has a branch of Glashammer on bitbucket that includes a patch he wrote for it, and he'd love you to review it, so go check it out. Jeff Schwaber got a discussion going about development environments. He's been trying out virtual environments on his laptop using Xen and VServer, both of which had their own issues. Igal mentioned that he uses virtualbox. Michael Schurter shared the recent work he's been doing with Cython (http://www.cython.org/). Who needs to know C when we have Cython?! He tried Pyrex, but found that it gave bad error messages that made it hard to use. Michael Bunsen gave us a tour of his site Urban Edibles (http://urbanedibles.org), which he is looking to rewrite in Python. It's pretty sweet, it's sort of a shared map of edible plants that you can find in public! Take a look and let Michael know if you have any ideas you'd like to share about his project, or if you're interested in getting involved (there's contact info on the site). Igal showed a quick XMLRPC client-server example. Check out the SimpleXMLRPCServer Python module (http://docs.python.org/library/simplexmlrpcserver.html). Reid closed up the meeting with an excellent tip -- you can use SimpleHTTPServer to serve your current directory over HTTP in a snap by running: python -m SimpleHTTPServer! Aaand, then there was beer. :) Thanks to everyone who joined us this month, and to everyone who shared some knowledge. You guys rock. If you're inspired to share something with the group, let us know! See you next month, Michelle From list at phaedrusdeinus.org Wed Jun 24 19:20:08 2009 From: list at phaedrusdeinus.org (John Melesky) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:20:08 -0700 Subject: [portland] ICFP Contest this weekend Message-ID: <74E2BD41-1010-49D2-BB81-7361EC43E552@phaedrusdeinus.org> The ICFP programming contest[1] is this weekend (starting Friday, about 11am our time). For those who aren't aware, the ICFP contest has been going on for over ten years. It's a general programming contest (read: use whatever language you want, functional or otherwise), intended for teams, and it lasts 3 days. Winners get bragging rights, and "prize money to help defray the costs of travel to the conference for the winners as well as small cash prizes" (the conference itself[2] is in Edinburgh, UK, in late August/early September). Past contests have involved building virtual machines (e.g., in 2006 to run a VM image that you then had to hack, in 2007 to do image processing on alien "dna"), writing simple AIs for small agents (e.g., last year involved a Mars rover avoiding aliens and rocks, 2005 involved robots robbing banks and cop robots stopping them), thinking about datatypes (e.g. in 2007, lots of string processing was necessary, but the default string types for most languages weren't suited to the tasks), and generally a lot of fun, geeky humor. I encourage anyone who likes programming enough to be on this list to at least check it out, and, ideally, to participate. Form a team with your friends or coworkers. It tends to be lots of fun, especially if it's not the sort of programming task you normally work on. -johnnnnnn [1] http://www.icfpcontest.org/ [2] http://www.icfpconference.org/