From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com  Mon Feb  2 02:52:10 2009
From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 17:52:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [portland] Problems Importing GTK
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0902011750030.14901@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>

   I've a fresh Slackware-12.2 installation, but gtk+2 is not being found by
applications that want to use it. When I load python interactively I see
why:

[rshepard at salmo ~]$ python
Python 2.5.2 (r252:60911, Sep 11 2008, 13:43:31) 
[GCC 4.2.4] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import gtk
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/__init__.py", line 48,
in <module>
     from gtk import _gtk
ImportError: /usr/lib/libfontconfig.so.1: undefined symbol: FT_Select_Size
>>>

   The fontconfig package is installed.

   This is not an issue on my notebook running Slackware-12.2, only on the
workstation.

   Has anyone ideas why this is happening, and what I need to do about it?

TIA,

Rich

-- 
Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D.               |  Integrity            Credibility
Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc.        |            Innovation
<http://www.appl-ecosys.com>     Voice: 503-667-4517      Fax: 503-667-8863

From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com  Mon Feb  2 05:09:39 2009
From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 20:09:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [portland] Problems Importing GTK -- FIXED
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0902011750030.14901@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0902011750030.14901@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0902012007300.14901@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>

On Sun, 1 Feb 2009, Rich Shepard wrote:

>  I've a fresh Slackware-12.2 installation, but gtk+2 is not being found by
> applications that want to use it. When I load python interactively I see
> why:

   Found and fixed the problem. When I restored from tape to the new -12.2
installation, libfreetype-3.6.8 was added to the -3.6.18 already there. That
got everyone confused.

   Now gtk imports into interactive python, wxGTK builds, and so does
tinyerp-client.

Rich

-- 
Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D.               |  Integrity            Credibility
Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc.        |            Innovation
<http://www.appl-ecosys.com>     Voice: 503-667-4517      Fax: 503-667-8863

From list at phaedrusdeinus.org  Tue Feb  3 01:08:49 2009
From: list at phaedrusdeinus.org (John Melesky)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 16:08:49 -0800
Subject: [portland] dropping out of a presentation
Message-ID: <E2FA8051-EFDF-484D-9F9B-6C95525FBC9D@phaedrusdeinus.org>

Sorry for the short notice, all, but i'm not going to be in town for  
this month's meeting, so won't be able to give a talk. I'm happy to do  
it in March, though.

-johnnnnn


From michelle at pdxpython.org  Tue Feb  3 01:48:42 2009
From: michelle at pdxpython.org (michelle rowley)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 16:48:42 -0800
Subject: [portland] dropping out of a presentation
In-Reply-To: <E2FA8051-EFDF-484D-9F9B-6C95525FBC9D@phaedrusdeinus.org>
References: <E2FA8051-EFDF-484D-9F9B-6C95525FBC9D@phaedrusdeinus.org>
Message-ID: <813046e40902021648ncc8f5d7r197098072444024d@mail.gmail.com>

John -

We'll miss you this month, but still looking forward to hearing about
machine learning if you're up for it in March!


Take care,
Michelle

On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 4:08 PM, John Melesky <list at phaedrusdeinus.org>wrote:

> Sorry for the short notice, all, but i'm not going to be in town for this
> month's meeting, so won't be able to give a talk. I'm happy to do it in
> March, though.
>
> -johnnnnn
>
> _______________________________________________
> Portland mailing list
> Portland at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland
>
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From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com  Tue Feb  3 03:57:14 2009
From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 18:57:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [portland] Psycopg Question
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0902021853120.10520@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>

   Anyone here familiar with psycopg?

   I'm trying to use a python app called tinyerp; it has two components:
-server and -client. Both are installed, along with all the ancillary python
tools the application uses.

   However, when I try to create a new database, it always returns "Could not
create database." I grepped the code in the tinyerp-server and
tinyerp-client python2.5/site-package directories and could not find that
string. Psycopg for python-2.5 is a shared library rather than python code.
I'm trying to find out why the database cannot be created so I can fix the
problem.

   If anyone here has suggestions, please pass them on to me.

Rich

-- 
Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D.               |  Integrity            Credibility
Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc.        |            Innovation
<http://www.appl-ecosys.com>     Voice: 503-667-4517      Fax: 503-667-8863

From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com  Tue Feb  3 04:30:12 2009
From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 19:30:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [portland] Psycopg Question
In-Reply-To: <16489DD2-305E-4D51-904C-53A8C5BC1732@dylanreinhardt.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0902021853120.10520@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
	<16489DD2-305E-4D51-904C-53A8C5BC1732@dylanreinhardt.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0902021927070.10520@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>

On Mon, 2 Feb 2009, Dylan Reinhardt wrote:

> Is postgres correctly installed and running?  Does tinyerp need a connection 
> string configured?
>
> If you haven't eliminated those possibilities, I'd check there first.

Dylan,

   Yes, postgres is running correctly. Further research revealed that the
LANG environment is en_US and this limits postgres encoding to LATIN1. The
application wants UTF8.

   So I copied postgresql.conf.sample to postgresql.conf, changed the
encoding variable to utf8 (from us_ascii), moved the file to
/var/lib/pgsql/data and issued 'kill -HUP <pid>'. That didn't help.

   So, it's a postgres locale issue and not a python or psycopg issue. I'll
pursue a solution there.

Many thanks,

Rich

-- 
Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D.               |  Integrity            Credibility
Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc.        |            Innovation
<http://www.appl-ecosys.com>     Voice: 503-667-4517      Fax: 503-667-8863

From pacopablo at pacopablo.com  Tue Feb  3 05:54:23 2009
From: pacopablo at pacopablo.com (John Hampton)
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2009 20:54:23 -0800
Subject: [portland] Psycopg Question
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0902021927070.10520@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0902021853120.10520@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>	<16489DD2-305E-4D51-904C-53A8C5BC1732@dylanreinhardt.com>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0902021927070.10520@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
Message-ID: <4987CDFF.1060107@pacopablo.com>

Rich Shepard wrote:
>   Yes, postgres is running correctly. Further research revealed that the
> LANG environment is en_US and this limits postgres encoding to LATIN1. The
> application wants UTF8.
> 
>   So I copied postgresql.conf.sample to postgresql.conf, changed the
> encoding variable to utf8 (from us_ascii), moved the file to
> /var/lib/pgsql/data and issued 'kill -HUP <pid>'. That didn't help.
> 
>   So, it's a postgres locale issue and not a python or psycopg issue. I'll
> pursue a solution there.

With most projects that use postgresql as a backend, they require that 
you create the database manually.  It appears that tinyerp (now openerp) 
is no exception [1]

Additionally, it doesn't really matter what the default encoding is for 
postgresql.  You can specify the encoding when creating the db.

-John

[1] 
http://openerp.com/wiki/index.php/Manual_Installation:Installation_Manual/Setup_a_Postgresql_user_and_database

From dylan at myraqa.com  Tue Feb  3 04:11:59 2009
From: dylan at myraqa.com (Dylan Reinhardt)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 19:11:59 -0800
Subject: [portland] Psycopg Question
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0902021853120.10520@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0902021853120.10520@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
Message-ID: <16489DD2-305E-4D51-904C-53A8C5BC1732@dylanreinhardt.com>

Is postgres correctly installed and running?  Does tinyerp need a  
connection string configured?

If you haven't eliminated those possibilities, I'd check there first.

HTH

Dylan


On Feb 2, 2009, at 6:57 PM, Rich Shepard <rshepard at appl-ecosys.com>  
wrote:

>  Anyone here familiar with psycopg?
>
>  I'm trying to use a python app called tinyerp; it has two components:
> -server and -client. Both are installed, along with all the  
> ancillary python
> tools the application uses.
>
>  However, when I try to create a new database, it always returns  
> "Could not
> create database." I grepped the code in the tinyerp-server and
> tinyerp-client python2.5/site-package directories and could not find  
> that
> string. Psycopg for python-2.5 is a shared library rather than  
> python code.
> I'm trying to find out why the database cannot be created so I can  
> fix the
> problem.
>
>  If anyone here has suggestions, please pass them on to me.
>
> Rich
>
> -- 
> Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D.               |  Integrity             
> Credibility
> Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc.        |            Innovation
> <http://www.appl-ecosys.com>     Voice: 503-667-4517      Fax: 503-667-8863
> _______________________________________________
> Portland mailing list
> Portland at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland

From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com  Tue Feb  3 15:21:23 2009
From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 06:21:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [portland] Psycopg Question
In-Reply-To: <4987CDFF.1060107@pacopablo.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0902021853120.10520@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
	<16489DD2-305E-4D51-904C-53A8C5BC1732@dylanreinhardt.com>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0902021927070.10520@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
	<4987CDFF.1060107@pacopablo.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0902030620000.9977@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>

On Mon, 2 Feb 2009, John Hampton wrote:

> With most projects that use postgresql as a backend, they require that you
> create the database manually.  It appears that tinyerp (now openerp) is no
> exception [1]

John,

   I am suitably ashamed at not seeing this. I read every other section of
that part of the wiki and totally missed that page. Thank you for pointing
out my mistake.

Mea culpa!

Rich

-- 
Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D.               |  Integrity            Credibility
Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc.        |            Innovation
<http://www.appl-ecosys.com>     Voice: 503-667-4517      Fax: 503-667-8863

From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com  Tue Feb  3 15:27:04 2009
From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 06:27:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [portland] Psycopg Question
In-Reply-To: <4987CDFF.1060107@pacopablo.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0902021853120.10520@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
	<16489DD2-305E-4D51-904C-53A8C5BC1732@dylanreinhardt.com>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0902021927070.10520@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
	<4987CDFF.1060107@pacopablo.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0902030625320.9977@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>

On Mon, 2 Feb 2009, John Hampton wrote:

> Additionally, it doesn't really matter what the default encoding is for
> postgresql.  You can specify the encoding when creating the db.

John,

   It's not cooperating with me on this:

[rshepard at salmo ~]$ createdb -U rshepard -O rshepard -E UNICODE crm
createdb: database creation failed: ERROR:  encoding UTF8 does not match
server's locale en_US
DETAIL:  The server's LC_CTYPE setting requires encoding LATIN1.

   So I still need to resolve the character set encoding issue.

Thanks,

Rich

-- 
Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D.               |  Integrity            Credibility
Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc.        |            Innovation
<http://www.appl-ecosys.com>     Voice: 503-667-4517      Fax: 503-667-8863

From jd at commandprompt.com  Tue Feb  3 17:07:28 2009
From: jd at commandprompt.com (Joshua D. Drake)
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 08:07:28 -0800
Subject: [portland] Psycopg Question
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0902021853120.10520@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0902021853120.10520@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
Message-ID: <1233677248.20562.1.camel@jd-laptop.pragmaticzealot.org>

On Mon, 2009-02-02 at 18:57 -0800, Rich Shepard wrote:
> Anyone here familiar with psycopg?
> 
>    I'm trying to use a python app called tinyerp; it has two components:
> -server and -client. Both are installed, along with all the ancillary python
> tools the application uses.
> 
>    However, when I try to create a new database, it always returns "Could not
> create database." I grepped the code in the tinyerp-server and
> tinyerp-client python2.5/site-package directories and could not find that
> string. Psycopg for python-2.5 is a shared library rather than python code.
> I'm trying to find out why the database cannot be created so I can fix the
> problem.
> 
>    If anyone here has suggestions, please pass them on to me.
> 

I would turn on statement logging and see if tinyerp is actually trying
to create the database.


> Rich
> 
-- 
PostgreSQL - XMPP: jdrake at jabber.postgresql.org
   Consulting, Development, Support, Training
   503-667-4564 - http://www.commandprompt.com/
   The PostgreSQL Company, serving since 1997


From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com  Tue Feb  3 17:17:10 2009
From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 08:17:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [portland] Psycopg Question
In-Reply-To: <1233677248.20562.1.camel@jd-laptop.pragmaticzealot.org>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0902021853120.10520@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
	<1233677248.20562.1.camel@jd-laptop.pragmaticzealot.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0902030816090.9977@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>

On Tue, 3 Feb 2009, Joshua D. Drake wrote:

> I would turn on statement logging and see if tinyerp is actually trying to
> create the database.

Joshua,

   No, I am on the command line.

Rich

-- 
Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D.               |  Integrity            Credibility
Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc.        |            Innovation
<http://www.appl-ecosys.com>     Voice: 503-667-4517      Fax: 503-667-8863

From jd at commandprompt.com  Tue Feb  3 17:22:48 2009
From: jd at commandprompt.com (Joshua D. Drake)
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 08:22:48 -0800
Subject: [portland] Psycopg Question
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0902030816090.9977@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0902021853120.10520@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
	<1233677248.20562.1.camel@jd-laptop.pragmaticzealot.org>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0902030816090.9977@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
Message-ID: <1233678168.20562.6.camel@jd-laptop.pragmaticzealot.org>

On Tue, 2009-02-03 at 08:17 -0800, Rich Shepard wrote:
> On Tue, 3 Feb 2009, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> 
> > I would turn on statement logging and see if tinyerp is actually trying to
> > create the database.
> 
> Joshua,
> 
>    No, I am on the command line.

I am sorry what do you mean? If you turn on postgresql statement logging
you can see exactly what tinyerp is trying to do. 

Joshua D. Drake


> 
> Rich
> 
-- 
PostgreSQL - XMPP: jdrake at jabber.postgresql.org
   Consulting, Development, Support, Training
   503-667-4564 - http://www.commandprompt.com/
   The PostgreSQL Company, serving since 1997


From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com  Tue Feb  3 17:25:39 2009
From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 08:25:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [portland] Psycopg Question
In-Reply-To: <1233678168.20562.6.camel@jd-laptop.pragmaticzealot.org>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0902021853120.10520@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
	<1233677248.20562.1.camel@jd-laptop.pragmaticzealot.org>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0902030816090.9977@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
	<1233678168.20562.6.camel@jd-laptop.pragmaticzealot.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0902030823540.9977@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>

On Tue, 3 Feb 2009, Joshua D. Drake wrote:

> I am sorry what do you mean?

   The application wants the database to be created externally. I'm trying to
do so on the command line with createdb.

   I now know that I need to re-initialize the default cluster at
/var/lib/pgsql/data, but I have to learn how to save existing data before
blowing away that path and re-creating it.

Rich

-- 
Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D.               |  Integrity            Credibility
Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc.        |            Innovation
<http://www.appl-ecosys.com>     Voice: 503-667-4517      Fax: 503-667-8863

From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com  Wed Feb  4 04:59:59 2009
From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 19:59:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [portland] Reverse Engineering Program Flow
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0902031953290.1485@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>

   I really need a CRM/Sales Tracking application for my business. TinyERP
looks like it will do, but I'm having difficulties with it and the mail list
is completely non-responsive. (I tried a Microsoft-centric, web-based/flash
required one called SnapCRM, but it also has big issues I cannot resolve.)

   Anyway since TinyERP is a Python app I should be able to dig through it
and fix what's not working. But, I need to see the program flow to find the
right spot to fix. The current problem is connecting to the created
database. I log in as a user and try to open the terp database, but get a
message that there was a connection error. The UI/postgres middleware is
psycopg, a library with which I am unfamiliar.

   Is there a python development tool similar to ctags that will allow me to
trace where the db connection problem is located? Is anyone here interested
and willing to work with me on resolving this issue -- and any others that
come up once I am able to get in to the db?

Thanks,

Rich

-- 
Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D.               |  Integrity            Credibility
Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc.        |            Innovation
<http://www.appl-ecosys.com>     Voice: 503-667-4517      Fax: 503-667-8863

From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com  Wed Feb  4 05:28:33 2009
From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 20:28:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [portland] Reverse Engineering Program Flow -- RESOLVED
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0902031953290.1485@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0902031953290.1485@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0902032026160.1485@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>

On Tue, 3 Feb 2009, Rich Shepard wrote:

>  I really need a CRM/Sales Tracking application for my business. TinyERP
> looks like it will do, but I'm having difficulties with it and the mail list
> is completely non-responsive. (I tried a Microsoft-centric, web-based/flash
> required one called SnapCRM, but it also has big issues I cannot resolve.)

   Well! Wouldn't you know it? Someone actually answered my message from
early this morning on how to log in initially: use demo/demo as the
username/password, not the displayed username.

   I did this and it brought up a series of dialogs that allowed me to
configure the system for my needs. Hoo-ha! Too bad all this is not on the
wiki. Perhaps I'll try to add this information as I learn it.

Rich

-- 
Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D.               |  Integrity            Credibility
Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc.        |            Innovation
<http://www.appl-ecosys.com>     Voice: 503-667-4517      Fax: 503-667-8863

From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com  Wed Feb  4 05:19:52 2009
From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 20:19:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [portland] Reverse Engineering Program Flow
In-Reply-To: <88d85d160902032011i14feea12gbcd546a6a7809fad@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0902031953290.1485@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
	<88d85d160902032011i14feea12gbcd546a6a7809fad@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0902032014180.1485@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>

On Tue, 3 Feb 2009, Rami Kassab wrote:

> ... and I fell upon PipeLine Deals CRM. It's a fully web based CRM targeted
> towards sales and is only $15 a month per employee using it.

Rami,

   I don't particularly like web-based apps. I'm the only one here and I want
a local tool with my data residing on my server. It's not so much that I'm
paranoid, I just don't trust my data out in the nasty 'Net world. I want it
here, under my control and behind the firewall.

> The biggest issue I had was all of the clutter and unnecessary things
> other CRMs introduced.

   Yes, too many think of themselves as Swiss Army Knives that must do
everything. But, we don't need to use all capabilities, any more than we use
all the capabilities of other business applications.

> I wish you the best of luck on this journey. There are, literally, hundreds
> (if not thousands) of software solutions that claim to be a CRM. The issue
> is, CRM is such a loose term that they are all really different and are
> tailored to different purposes. The ones that claim can do it all are
> incredibly bloated. I simply needed a tool just for sales right now and
> PipeLine Deals was the right choice.

   This is why TinyERP is so attractive: it's written in Python and is open
source. So, if I could map the various modules and the paths to simple
things like connecting to a database (instead of being told I've a bad
username or password), then I can make it work for my needs. :-)

Thanks,

Rich

-- 
Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D.               |  Integrity            Credibility
Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc.        |            Innovation
<http://www.appl-ecosys.com>     Voice: 503-667-4517      Fax: 503-667-8863

From rami at typethink.com  Wed Feb  4 05:46:35 2009
From: rami at typethink.com (Rami Kassab)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 20:46:35 -0800
Subject: [portland] Reverse Engineering Program Flow
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0902032014180.1485@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0902031953290.1485@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
	<88d85d160902032011i14feea12gbcd546a6a7809fad@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0902032014180.1485@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
Message-ID: <88d85d160902032046t43bee982o747cd1dd903d9ae4@mail.gmail.com>

Rich,More power to ya man. I just thought I'd throw it out there but I
understand everyone has different needs and desires. Open source is
wonderful for that... you can change it to fit what you want. I just needed
something quick as my company is focusing all of it's development efforts on
wrapping up a SaaS product for the financial industry, which is fully
written in Python + Django + the beginnings of our own platform called
Thinkspace so we didn't have much time to allocate towards customizing a
product right now. I actually started off with vTiger prior to getting
frustrated with the clutter and giving in to the simplicity of PipeLine
Deals. Needless to say, it won't be our permanent solution.

I never actually gave TinyERM a try. I will take a gander at it now
though. I would eventually like to have a CRM custom built precisely for how
we need to use it... even if that means taking an open source project and
modding the s**t out of it :)

Like I said, I wish you the best of luck. CRMs are a thing that are known to
cause frustration and confusion for many business owners. There's just sooo
damn many that claim to do it all...


--

*Rami Kassab* - Sales & Operations Director

503.888.8605

rami at typethink.com


*Typethink* - Creative Web Firm

P 503.626.6231

F 503.626.6233

6025 SW Jean Rd.

Lake Oswego, OR 97035

www.typethink.com

On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 8:19 PM, Rich Shepard <rshepard at appl-ecosys.com>wrote:

> On Tue, 3 Feb 2009, Rami Kassab wrote:
>
>  ... and I fell upon PipeLine Deals CRM. It's a fully web based CRM
>> targeted
>> towards sales and is only $15 a month per employee using it.
>>
>
> Rami,
>
>  I don't particularly like web-based apps. I'm the only one here and I want
> a local tool with my data residing on my server. It's not so much that I'm
> paranoid, I just don't trust my data out in the nasty 'Net world. I want it
> here, under my control and behind the firewall.
>
>  The biggest issue I had was all of the clutter and unnecessary things
>> other CRMs introduced.
>>
>
>  Yes, too many think of themselves as Swiss Army Knives that must do
> everything. But, we don't need to use all capabilities, any more than we
> use
> all the capabilities of other business applications.
>
>  I wish you the best of luck on this journey. There are, literally,
>> hundreds
>> (if not thousands) of software solutions that claim to be a CRM. The issue
>> is, CRM is such a loose term that they are all really different and are
>> tailored to different purposes. The ones that claim can do it all are
>> incredibly bloated. I simply needed a tool just for sales right now and
>> PipeLine Deals was the right choice.
>>
>
>  This is why TinyERP is so attractive: it's written in Python and is open
> source. So, if I could map the various modules and the paths to simple
> things like connecting to a database (instead of being told I've a bad
> username or password), then I can make it work for my needs. :-)
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Rich
>
> --
> Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D.               |  Integrity            Credibility
> Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc.        |            Innovation
> <http://www.appl-ecosys.com>     Voice: 503-667-4517      Fax:
> 503-667-8863
> _______________________________________________
> Portland mailing list
> Portland at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland
>
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From brett at rdnzl.net  Wed Feb  4 08:12:27 2009
From: brett at rdnzl.net (Brett Carter)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 23:12:27 -0800
Subject: [portland] Reverse Engineering Program Flow
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0902031953290.1485@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0902031953290.1485@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
Message-ID: <6E864275-F7C0-4916-9462-209A5918A50A@rdnzl.net>

Rich, for future reference - ctags works with python. I use it all the  
time. I prefer exuberant ctags:
http://ctags.sourceforge.net/
-Brett

On Feb 3, 2009, at 7:59 PM, Rich Shepard wrote:

>  I really need a CRM/Sales Tracking application for my business.  
> TinyERP
> looks like it will do, but I'm having difficulties with it and the  
> mail list
> is completely non-responsive. (I tried a Microsoft-centric, web- 
> based/flash
> required one called SnapCRM, but it also has big issues I cannot  
> resolve.)
>
>  Anyway since TinyERP is a Python app I should be able to dig  
> through it
> and fix what's not working. But, I need to see the program flow to  
> find the
> right spot to fix. The current problem is connecting to the created
> database. I log in as a user and try to open the terp database, but  
> get a
> message that there was a connection error. The UI/postgres  
> middleware is
> psycopg, a library with which I am unfamiliar.
>
>  Is there a python development tool similar to ctags that will allow  
> me to
> trace where the db connection problem is located? Is anyone here  
> interested
> and willing to work with me on resolving this issue -- and any  
> others that
> come up once I am able to get in to the db?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Rich
>
> -- 
> Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D.               |  Integrity             
> Credibility
> Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc.        |            Innovation
> <http://www.appl-ecosys.com>     Voice: 503-667-4517      Fax:  
> 503-667-8863
> _______________________________________________
> Portland mailing list
> Portland at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland


From rami at typethink.com  Wed Feb  4 05:11:00 2009
From: rami at typethink.com (Rami Kassab)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 20:11:00 -0800
Subject: [portland] Reverse Engineering Program Flow
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0902031953290.1485@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0902031953290.1485@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
Message-ID: <88d85d160902032011i14feea12gbcd546a6a7809fad@mail.gmail.com>

Rich,I recently walked the tedious and time consuming "we need to find a CRM
/ Salesforce Automation tool!" and did a bunch of research. We needed a
straightforward salesforce automation tool to help manage leads, deals,
customer data, track communications, deadlines, estimate contract amounts,
etc and I fell upon PipeLine Deals CRM. It's a fully web based CRM targeted
towards sales and is only $15 a month per employee using it. Its interface
is beautiful, fast, and easy to understand. The biggest issue I had was all
of the clutter and unnecessary things other CRMs introduced. I highly
recommend you give PipeLine deals a try if you're willing to bypass the
open-source solution for this use case. They also have an iPhone interface,
which I use almost every day for my company. I recommend you check it out:
http://www.pipelinedeals.com/. They have a free 30-day demo. Use it to
import your leads and familiarize yourself with the beautiful AJAX driven
interface. It's extremely straightforward and simple.

I wish you the best of luck on this journey. There are, literally, hundreds
(if not thousands) of software solutions that claim to be a CRM. The issue
is, CRM is such a loose term that they are all really different and are
tailored to different purposes. The ones that claim can do it all are
incredibly bloated. I simply needed a tool just for sales right now and
PipeLine Deals was the right choice.

Take care!


--

*Rami Kassab* - Sales & Operations Director

503.888.8605

rami at typethink.com


*Typethink - Creative Web Firm*

P 503.626.6231

F 503.626.6233

6025 SW Jean Rd.

Lake Oswego, OR 97035

www.typethink.com

On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 7:59 PM, Rich Shepard <rshepard at appl-ecosys.com>wrote:

>  I really need a CRM/Sales Tracking application for my business. TinyERP
> looks like it will do, but I'm having difficulties with it and the mail
> list
> is completely non-responsive. (I tried a Microsoft-centric, web-based/flash
> required one called SnapCRM, but it also has big issues I cannot resolve.)
>
>  Anyway since TinyERP is a Python app I should be able to dig through it
> and fix what's not working. But, I need to see the program flow to find the
> right spot to fix. The current problem is connecting to the created
> database. I log in as a user and try to open the terp database, but get a
> message that there was a connection error. The UI/postgres middleware is
> psycopg, a library with which I am unfamiliar.
>
>  Is there a python development tool similar to ctags that will allow me to
> trace where the db connection problem is located? Is anyone here interested
> and willing to work with me on resolving this issue -- and any others that
> come up once I am able to get in to the db?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Rich
>
> --
> Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D.               |  Integrity            Credibility
> Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc.        |            Innovation
> <http://www.appl-ecosys.com>     Voice: 503-667-4517      Fax:
> 503-667-8863
> _______________________________________________
> Portland mailing list
> Portland at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland
>
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From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com  Wed Feb  4 15:19:14 2009
From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 06:19:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [portland] Reverse Engineering Program Flow
In-Reply-To: <6E864275-F7C0-4916-9462-209A5918A50A@rdnzl.net>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0902031953290.1485@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
	<6E864275-F7C0-4916-9462-209A5918A50A@rdnzl.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0902040618470.3274@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>

On Tue, 3 Feb 2009, Brett Carter wrote:

> Rich, for future reference - ctags works with python. I use it all the time. 
> I prefer exuberant ctags:
> http://ctags.sourceforge.net/

Brett,

   Good to know. I'll save this for future reference.

Thanks,

Rich

-- 
Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D.               |  Integrity            Credibility
Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc.        |            Innovation
<http://www.appl-ecosys.com>     Voice: 503-667-4517      Fax: 503-667-8863

From adam at therobots.org  Wed Feb  4 19:37:59 2009
From: adam at therobots.org (Adam Lowry)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 10:37:59 -0800
Subject: [portland] Werkzeug, web, testing, etc. discussion
Message-ID: <72759B59-9AA8-46B4-8ED2-F085B314C295@therobots.org>

This past weekend at NorthwestPythonDay in Seattle there was a lack of  
lightning talks in the morning so I briefly talked about Werkzeug and  
failed miserably to get across why it was so great. Michelle asked me  
to continue it at pdxpython.

One thing I'm always curious about, though, is the suite of tools and  
practices other programmers use to get their daily work done, so I  
thought I'd list out what I'm using now and we can see if there's  
interest in any particular portions.

Web side:
	- Werkzeug for WSGI glue and url routing
	- Jinja2 for templating

	(I'm also using SQLAlchemy and Flatland, but there is a more  
qualified person to talk about these in the group.)

Unit testing (not web specific):
	- nose for test collection, execution, and misc utilities (including  
plugins)
	- Mox (pymox), Google's mock/stub/expectation library

Functional testing (web specific):
	- nose, again
	- Twill for web functional tests, although I talked about this once a  
while ago

Deployment/building:
	- Paver for project bootstrapping, library maintenance, and  
miscellaneous scripts for deployment and development
	- Boto for interaction with Amazon Web Services (ec2, s3, and sqs)

Any interest at all? Or are people tired of yet another web talk?

Adam


From jd at commandprompt.com  Wed Feb  4 19:41:56 2009
From: jd at commandprompt.com (Joshua D. Drake)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 10:41:56 -0800
Subject: [portland] Werkzeug, web, testing, etc. discussion
In-Reply-To: <72759B59-9AA8-46B4-8ED2-F085B314C295@therobots.org>
References: <72759B59-9AA8-46B4-8ED2-F085B314C295@therobots.org>
Message-ID: <1233772916.16570.30.camel@jd-laptop.pragmaticzealot.org>


> Deployment/building:
> 	- Paver for project bootstrapping, library maintenance, and  
> miscellaneous scripts for deployment and development
> 	- Boto for interaction with Amazon Web Services (ec2, s3, and sqs)
> 
> Any interest at all? Or are people tired of yet another web talk?
> 
> Adam
> 

I am curious about nose. I would be interested in understanding how I
might be able to use it with replicator or pitrtools
(https://projects.commandprompt.com/public/replicator|pitrtools
respectively)

Joshua D. Drake


> _______________________________________________
> Portland mailing list
> Portland at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland
> 
-- 
PostgreSQL - XMPP: jdrake at jabber.postgresql.org
   Consulting, Development, Support, Training
   503-667-4564 - http://www.commandprompt.com/
   The PostgreSQL Company, serving since 1997


From michael at susens-schurter.com  Wed Feb  4 20:33:09 2009
From: michael at susens-schurter.com (Michael Schurter)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 11:33:09 -0800
Subject: [portland] Werkzeug, web, testing, etc. discussion
In-Reply-To: <72759B59-9AA8-46B4-8ED2-F085B314C295@therobots.org>
References: <72759B59-9AA8-46B4-8ED2-F085B314C295@therobots.org>
Message-ID: <240b71640902041133t2a63b1beh30da031fa9cacd75@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Adam Lowry <adam at therobots.org> wrote:
> This past weekend at NorthwestPythonDay in Seattle there was a lack of
> lightning talks in the morning so I briefly talked about Werkzeug and failed
> miserably to get across why it was so great. Michelle asked me to continue
> it at pdxpython.
>
> One thing I'm always curious about, though, is the suite of tools and
> practices other programmers use to get their daily work done, so I thought
> I'd list out what I'm using now and we can see if there's interest in any
> particular portions.
>
> Web side:
>        - Werkzeug for WSGI glue and url routing
>        - Jinja2 for templating
>
>        (I'm also using SQLAlchemy and Flatland, but there is a more
> qualified person to talk about these in the group.)
>
> Unit testing (not web specific):
>        - nose for test collection, execution, and misc utilities (including
> plugins)
>        - Mox (pymox), Google's mock/stub/expectation library
>
> Functional testing (web specific):
>        - nose, again
>        - Twill for web functional tests, although I talked about this once a
> while ago
>
> Deployment/building:
>        - Paver for project bootstrapping, library maintenance, and
> miscellaneous scripts for deployment and development
>        - Boto for interaction with Amazon Web Services (ec2, s3, and sqs)
>
> Any interest at all? Or are people tired of yet another web talk?

I'd love to hear about Werkzeug.

Fwiw, here are the 2 main stacks I work with:

1.  Custom Stack Smorgaspord:

Custom web framework which is a fairly light stack on top of CherryPy offering:
 - Cheetah-like templating language (very simple, very fast, very
pythonic, very nice)
 - FormEncode for form handling (meh)
 - Easy way to add pools for SqlAlchemy connections and various other
backends & RPCs
 - Routes-like dispatching to controller classes
 - cgitb for tracebacks (it may not be sexy, but it works!)
 - py.test for testing (with a slightly customized mechanize package)

Hopefully bits of that stack will be open sourced in time for PyCon.
Its very unexciting stuff honestly... probably looks very old
fashioned to a lot of people.  However, its surprisingly pleasant to
use.  It does a great job of covering the basics and doesn't get in
your way when you want to extend it.

Probably nothing to present on unless the entire thing is open sourced
since each of the components is about as boring and vanilla as you can
get.  :-)

2.  Django

Django for everything...  thrilling huh?  Traditional setup.py style deployment.


Been playing with Selenium for UI testing, but still haven't done
anything useful with it though.

From brett at rdnzl.net  Wed Feb  4 20:46:27 2009
From: brett at rdnzl.net (Brett Carter)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 11:46:27 -0800
Subject: [portland] Werkzeug, web, testing, etc. discussion
In-Reply-To: <72759B59-9AA8-46B4-8ED2-F085B314C295@therobots.org>
References: <72759B59-9AA8-46B4-8ED2-F085B314C295@therobots.org>
Message-ID: <4989F093.7020200@rdnzl.net>

Definitely interested in both Paver and Werkzeug.
-Brett

Adam Lowry wrote:
> This past weekend at NorthwestPythonDay in Seattle there was a lack of 
> lightning talks in the morning so I briefly talked about Werkzeug and 
> failed miserably to get across why it was so great. Michelle asked me to 
> continue it at pdxpython.
> 
> One thing I'm always curious about, though, is the suite of tools and 
> practices other programmers use to get their daily work done, so I 
> thought I'd list out what I'm using now and we can see if there's 
> interest in any particular portions.
> 
> Web side:
>     - Werkzeug for WSGI glue and url routing
>     - Jinja2 for templating
> 
>     (I'm also using SQLAlchemy and Flatland, but there is a more 
> qualified person to talk about these in the group.)
> 
> Unit testing (not web specific):
>     - nose for test collection, execution, and misc utilities (including 
> plugins)
>     - Mox (pymox), Google's mock/stub/expectation library
> 
> Functional testing (web specific):
>     - nose, again
>     - Twill for web functional tests, although I talked about this once 
> a while ago
> 
> Deployment/building:
>     - Paver for project bootstrapping, library maintenance, and 
> miscellaneous scripts for deployment and development
>     - Boto for interaction with Amazon Web Services (ec2, s3, and sqs)
> 
> Any interest at all? Or are people tired of yet another web talk?
> 
> Adam
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Portland mailing list
> Portland at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland


From jd at commandprompt.com  Wed Feb  4 20:49:16 2009
From: jd at commandprompt.com (Joshua D. Drake)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 11:49:16 -0800
Subject: [portland] Werkzeug, web, testing, etc. discussion
In-Reply-To: <240b71640902041133t2a63b1beh30da031fa9cacd75@mail.gmail.com>
References: <72759B59-9AA8-46B4-8ED2-F085B314C295@therobots.org>
	<240b71640902041133t2a63b1beh30da031fa9cacd75@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1233776956.16570.35.camel@jd-laptop.pragmaticzealot.org>

On Wed, 2009-02-04 at 11:33 -0800, Michael Schurter wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Adam Lowry <adam at therobots.org>
> wrote:

> 2.  Django
> 
> Django for everything...  thrilling huh?  Traditional setup.py style deployment.
> 

Has Django fixed its ORM yet? Last I checked it lacked the ability to
properly handle primary keys.

Joshua D. Drake

-- 
PostgreSQL - XMPP: jdrake at jabber.postgresql.org
   Consulting, Development, Support, Training
   503-667-4564 - http://www.commandprompt.com/
   The PostgreSQL Company, serving since 1997


From michael at susens-schurter.com  Wed Feb  4 20:52:20 2009
From: michael at susens-schurter.com (Michael Schurter)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 11:52:20 -0800
Subject: [portland] Werkzeug, web, testing, etc. discussion
In-Reply-To: <1233776956.16570.35.camel@jd-laptop.pragmaticzealot.org>
References: <72759B59-9AA8-46B4-8ED2-F085B314C295@therobots.org>
	<240b71640902041133t2a63b1beh30da031fa9cacd75@mail.gmail.com>
	<1233776956.16570.35.camel@jd-laptop.pragmaticzealot.org>
Message-ID: <240b71640902041152h327e2f12j626151e8643bb23c@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Joshua D. Drake <jd at commandprompt.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 2009-02-04 at 11:33 -0800, Michael Schurter wrote:
>> On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Adam Lowry <adam at therobots.org>
>> wrote:
>
>> 2.  Django
>>
>> Django for everything...  thrilling huh?  Traditional setup.py style deployment.
>>
>
> Has Django fixed its ORM yet? Last I checked it lacked the ability to
> properly handle primary keys.

While Django's ORM is definitely nothing to brag about compared to
SqlAlchemy and other more powerful Python ORM's, it definitely handles
primary keys just fine:

Defining:
  http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/ref/models/fields/#primary-key

Querying by:
  http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/db/queries/#the-pk-lookup-shortcut

From pacopablo at pacopablo.com  Wed Feb  4 20:58:13 2009
From: pacopablo at pacopablo.com (John Hampton)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 11:58:13 -0800
Subject: [portland] Werkzeug, web, testing, etc. discussion
In-Reply-To: <240b71640902041152h327e2f12j626151e8643bb23c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <72759B59-9AA8-46B4-8ED2-F085B314C295@therobots.org>	<240b71640902041133t2a63b1beh30da031fa9cacd75@mail.gmail.com>	<1233776956.16570.35.camel@jd-laptop.pragmaticzealot.org>
	<240b71640902041152h327e2f12j626151e8643bb23c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4989F355.5070406@pacopablo.com>

Michael Schurter wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Joshua D. Drake <jd at commandprompt.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 2009-02-04 at 11:33 -0800, Michael Schurter wrote:
>>> On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Adam Lowry <adam at therobots.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> 2.  Django
>>>
>>> Django for everything...  thrilling huh?  Traditional setup.py style deployment.
>>>
>> Has Django fixed its ORM yet? Last I checked it lacked the ability to
>> properly handle primary keys.
> 
> While Django's ORM is definitely nothing to brag about compared to
> SqlAlchemy and other more powerful Python ORM's, it definitely handles
> primary keys just fine:
> 
> Defining:
>   http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/ref/models/fields/#primary-key
> 
> Querying by:
>   http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/db/queries/#the-pk-lookup-shortcut

The way I read this is that Django still doesn't support multi-column 
primary keys.  I also found a ticket[1] that is still open regarding 
supporting multi-column primary keys.  I didn't read the ticket 
thoroughly.  Is it true that the Django ORM still can't do multi-column 
primary keys?

Joshua, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that you were referring to 
being able to handle multi-column primary keys in your question, no?

-John

From jd at commandprompt.com  Wed Feb  4 21:10:16 2009
From: jd at commandprompt.com (Joshua D. Drake)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 12:10:16 -0800
Subject: [portland] Werkzeug, web, testing, etc. discussion
In-Reply-To: <240b71640902041152h327e2f12j626151e8643bb23c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <72759B59-9AA8-46B4-8ED2-F085B314C295@therobots.org>
	<240b71640902041133t2a63b1beh30da031fa9cacd75@mail.gmail.com>
	<1233776956.16570.35.camel@jd-laptop.pragmaticzealot.org>
	<240b71640902041152h327e2f12j626151e8643bb23c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1233778216.16570.36.camel@jd-laptop.pragmaticzealot.org>

On Wed, 2009-02-04 at 11:52 -0800, Michael Schurter wrote:

> While Django's ORM is definitely nothing to brag about compared to
> SqlAlchemy and other more powerful Python ORM's, it definitely handles
> primary keys just fine:
> 
> Defining:
>   http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/ref/models/fields/#primary-key
> 
> Querying by:
>   http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/db/queries/#the-pk-lookup-shortcut

Cool it supports natural keys now. Very good.

Joshua D. Drake

> _______________________________________________
> Portland mailing list
> Portland at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland
> 
-- 
PostgreSQL - XMPP: jdrake at jabber.postgresql.org
   Consulting, Development, Support, Training
   503-667-4564 - http://www.commandprompt.com/
   The PostgreSQL Company, serving since 1997


From jd at commandprompt.com  Wed Feb  4 21:11:27 2009
From: jd at commandprompt.com (Joshua D. Drake)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 12:11:27 -0800
Subject: [portland] Werkzeug, web, testing, etc. discussion
In-Reply-To: <4989F355.5070406@pacopablo.com>
References: <72759B59-9AA8-46B4-8ED2-F085B314C295@therobots.org>
	<240b71640902041133t2a63b1beh30da031fa9cacd75@mail.gmail.com>
	<1233776956.16570.35.camel@jd-laptop.pragmaticzealot.org>
	<240b71640902041152h327e2f12j626151e8643bb23c@mail.gmail.com>
	<4989F355.5070406@pacopablo.com>
Message-ID: <1233778287.16570.37.camel@jd-laptop.pragmaticzealot.org>

On Wed, 2009-02-04 at 11:58 -0800, John Hampton wrote:

> The way I read this is that Django still doesn't support multi-column 
> primary keys.  I also found a ticket[1] that is still open regarding 
> supporting multi-column primary keys.  I didn't read the ticket 
> thoroughly.  Is it true that the Django ORM still can't do multi-column 
> primary keys?
> 
> Joshua, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that you were referring to 
> being able to handle multi-column primary keys in your question, no?
> 

Well there are two parts. First is natural keys. It gets a +1 from me
for being able to do that now but certainly composite primary keys is
the next step.


Joshua D. Drake


> -John
> _______________________________________________
> Portland mailing list
> Portland at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland
> 
-- 
PostgreSQL - XMPP: jdrake at jabber.postgresql.org
   Consulting, Development, Support, Training
   503-667-4564 - http://www.commandprompt.com/
   The PostgreSQL Company, serving since 1997


From michael at susens-schurter.com  Wed Feb  4 21:13:27 2009
From: michael at susens-schurter.com (Michael Schurter)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 12:13:27 -0800
Subject: [portland] Werkzeug, web, testing, etc. discussion
In-Reply-To: <4989F355.5070406@pacopablo.com>
References: <72759B59-9AA8-46B4-8ED2-F085B314C295@therobots.org>
	<240b71640902041133t2a63b1beh30da031fa9cacd75@mail.gmail.com>
	<1233776956.16570.35.camel@jd-laptop.pragmaticzealot.org>
	<240b71640902041152h327e2f12j626151e8643bb23c@mail.gmail.com>
	<4989F355.5070406@pacopablo.com>
Message-ID: <240b71640902041213h3ff5d13h940412e535944750@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 11:58 AM, John Hampton <pacopablo at pacopablo.com> wrote:
> Michael Schurter wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Joshua D. Drake <jd at commandprompt.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Wed, 2009-02-04 at 11:33 -0800, Michael Schurter wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Adam Lowry <adam at therobots.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 2.  Django
>>>>
>>>> Django for everything...  thrilling huh?  Traditional setup.py style
>>>> deployment.
>>>>
>>> Has Django fixed its ORM yet? Last I checked it lacked the ability to
>>> properly handle primary keys.
>>
>> While Django's ORM is definitely nothing to brag about compared to
>> SqlAlchemy and other more powerful Python ORM's, it definitely handles
>> primary keys just fine:
>>
>> Defining:
>>  http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/ref/models/fields/#primary-key
>>
>> Querying by:
>>
>>  http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/db/queries/#the-pk-lookup-shortcut
>
> The way I read this is that Django still doesn't support multi-column
> primary keys.  I also found a ticket[1] that is still open regarding
> supporting multi-column primary keys.  I didn't read the ticket thoroughly.
>  Is it true that the Django ORM still can't do multi-column primary keys?
>
> Joshua, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that you were referring to
> being able to handle multi-column primary keys in your question, no?
>
> -John

Ah, that.  I was hoping you wouldn't notice that.  ;-)

You are correct, no composite primary key support yet, but they're
working on it:
  http://code.djangoproject.com/wiki/MultipleColumnPrimaryKeys
  http://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/373

I use surrogate keys and intermediary tables currently.  Not pretty
and it will make DBAs cry.  YMMV

From michelle at pdxpython.org  Mon Feb  9 23:07:50 2009
From: michelle at pdxpython.org (michelle rowley)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 14:07:50 -0800
Subject: [portland] Meeting tomorrow - 7pm @ CubeSpace
Message-ID: <813046e40902091407y26c03903ieec4f86ae8030855@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Portland Pythoneers,

It's that time again (Really? Yes, really!). Tomorrow night at 7pm at
CubeSpace the Portland Python Users Group meets again. On the agenda for
this month, we have three exciting talks planned:

Adam Lowry will be showing off what he's been up to with Werkzeug (
http://werkzeug.pocoo.org/)
Kirby Urner is going to share some VPython goodness (http://vpython.org/)
Jason Kirtland plans to give us an overview of Zine (http://zine.pocoo.org/)

So, if you're looking for fabulous new utilities for your WSGI app, want to
see a sweet 3D graphics show, need an alternative to Wordpress, or just want
to chill with other Python coders and eat Sesame Donuts (
http://www.sesamedonut.com/), come and join us at CubeSpace tomorrow night.

Everyone is welcome - hope to see you there!

michelle


meetup: http://python.meetup.com/183/calendar/9312544/
twitter: http://www.twitter.com/pdxpython/
wiki: http://www.pdxpython.org/

cubespace info:
622 SE Grand Ave.
Portland, OR 97214
503-206-3500
http://cubespacepdx.com/
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From kirby.urner at gmail.com  Mon Feb  9 23:52:32 2009
From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 14:52:32 -0800
Subject: [portland] Meeting tomorrow - 7pm @ CubeSpace
In-Reply-To: <813046e40902091407y26c03903ieec4f86ae8030855@mail.gmail.com>
References: <813046e40902091407y26c03903ieec4f86ae8030855@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f604188c0902091452j679b4b7ap106425be45e6e5bd@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 2:07 PM, michelle rowley <michelle at pdxpython.org> wrote:
> Hey Portland Pythoneers,
>
> It's that time again (Really? Yes, really!). Tomorrow night at 7pm at
> CubeSpace the Portland Python Users Group meets again. On the agenda for
> this month, we have three exciting talks planned:
>
> Adam Lowry will be showing off what he's been up to with Werkzeug (
> http://werkzeug.pocoo.org/)
> Kirby Urner is going to share some VPython goodness (http://vpython.org/)

I'm actually hoping to somewhat abuse the privilege, I hope in a
welcome way, by presenting Vpython *in the context* of my planned 3 hr
workshop at Pycon.  Of course I plan to condense it, go really fast.
I successfully did this with my engineering group on Saturday so I
know it's doable -- didn't run any code though, which I plan to do
tomorrow.

For those wishing a preview of what my Pycon slides are about (there's
a link to 'em):

http://coffeeshopsnet.blogspot.com/2009/02/glass-bead-game.html

I won't have a "point of sale" demo for coffee shop use, though if
you're in a coffee shop reading this, and click on one of the Google
ads at the bottom of the above blog, you'll sort of get the idea.

I promise to keep it compact and not spill into Jason's time...

Kirby

> Jason Kirtland plans to give us an overview of Zine (http://zine.pocoo.org/)
>
> So, if you're looking for fabulous new utilities for your WSGI app, want to
> see a sweet 3D graphics show, need an alternative to Wordpress, or just want
> to chill with other Python coders and eat Sesame Donuts (
> http://www.sesamedonut.com/), come and join us at CubeSpace tomorrow night.
>
> Everyone is welcome - hope to see you there!
>
> michelle
>
>
> meetup: http://python.meetup.com/183/calendar/9312544/
> twitter: http://www.twitter.com/pdxpython/
> wiki: http://www.pdxpython.org/
>
> cubespace info:
> 622 SE Grand Ave.
> Portland, OR 97214
> 503-206-3500
> http://cubespacepdx.com/
> -------------- next part --------------
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> _______________________________________________
> Portland mailing list
> Portland at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland
>

From chiller at decipherinc.com  Wed Feb 11 23:01:54 2009
From: chiller at decipherinc.com (Christopher Hiller)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 14:01:54 -0800
Subject: [portland] automated build notification via lava lamp or cuckoo
	clock, monkey 	w/cymbals, etc
Message-ID: <da636b60902111401r3dde796atd3276559dba906f0@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

We have an automated build process and I would like to integrate it with
red/green lava lamps or something of that sort.  I know absolutely nothing
about "home automation" or the hardware necessary to do this sort of thing.
Whatever HW solution we come up with must be USB (no serial port) and work
with Ubuntu.  I've read a bit about people doing this, but it doesn't seem
the hardware is compatible with our config, and most people are using
CruiseControl (we're using buildbot -- http://buildbot.net).  I am not so
concerned with the software side of things as I am sure I can script
something given the proper hardware and drivers.  Has anyone done anything
like this?

Chris
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From frankamp at gmail.com  Wed Feb 11 23:33:37 2009
From: frankamp at gmail.com (Joshua Frankamp)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 14:33:37 -0800
Subject: [portland] automated build notification via lava lamp or cuckoo
	clock, monkey w/cymbals, etc
In-Reply-To: <da636b60902111401r3dde796atd3276559dba906f0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <da636b60902111401r3dde796atd3276559dba906f0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3d92b6630902111433w4cd56cecq1107196ad5f49841@mail.gmail.com>

I have although, we are on windows. You will need a hardware
controller of some kind. We used a usb device that came with drivers
for windows/linux, and source code. It is a stoplight. I setup a cron
like task on the machine that the light is plugged in to. It read a
file off the network that our build process wrote out. Writing the
light "client" in python would be trivial, even writing some kind of
xml http api to make it less fragile.

For us, Red for build failed, yellow for build in progress, green for
everything is great.

http://www.delcom-eng.com/products_USBTLamps.asp

- Joshua


On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 2:01 PM, Christopher Hiller
<chiller at decipherinc.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> We have an automated build process and I would like to integrate it with
> red/green lava lamps or something of that sort.  I know absolutely nothing
> about "home automation" or the hardware necessary to do this sort of thing.
> Whatever HW solution we come up with must be USB (no serial port) and work
> with Ubuntu.  I've read a bit about people doing this, but it doesn't seem
> the hardware is compatible with our config, and most people are using
> CruiseControl (we're using buildbot -- http://buildbot.net).  I am not so
> concerned with the software side of things as I am sure I can script
> something given the proper hardware and drivers.  Has anyone done anything
> like this?
>
> Chris
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/portland/attachments/20090211/33de4bdb/attachment.htm>
> _______________________________________________
> Portland mailing list
> Portland at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland
>

From mde at micahelliott.com  Wed Feb 11 23:48:34 2009
From: mde at micahelliott.com (Micah Elliott)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 14:48:34 -0800
Subject: [portland] automated build notification via lava lamp or cuckoo
	clock, monkey w/cymbals, etc
In-Reply-To: <da636b60902111401r3dde796atd3276559dba906f0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <da636b60902111401r3dde796atd3276559dba906f0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1edb3c420902111448t50011c54m6d076005d60fe1b7@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 2:01 PM, Christopher Hiller
<chiller at decipherinc.com> wrote:
>
> We have an automated build process and I would like to integrate it with
> red/green lava lamps or something of that sort.

Cool idea.  I've been planning to get to that point one of these
days.

>  I know absolutely nothing about "home automation" or the
> hardware necessary to do this sort of thing.

Neither did I.  I'm a total softie.  But there's not much to it.

> Whatever HW solution we come up with must be USB (no serial
> port) and work with Ubuntu.

I had an X10 setup (very cheap, $7/switch, maybe $10/outlet,
and I want to say $20 for the serial port controller) working on
a Red Hat system in my home maybe 6 years ago.  Really easy to
configure the device IDs.  So you could just plug the lamp/monkey
into a controlled outlet.  That's the last time I looked into
this.  I was turning on lights etc from cron jobs.  The interface
was via a really crufty Java-written text-based description file.
I'd be interested to know what progress has been made since then.
Surely X10 supports USB by now.  I use Ubuntu now too.

I'll start looking into it, but would also be interested to hear
of others' experiences.

-- 
@MicahElliott | mde at MicahElliott.com | http://MicahElliott.com

From michelle at pdxpython.org  Fri Feb 13 01:13:33 2009
From: michelle at pdxpython.org (michelle rowley)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 16:13:33 -0800
Subject: [portland] February meeting recap
Message-ID: <813046e40902121613n74cca7ch632088049cb65c20@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Pythoneers,

We had a great meeting Tuesday, thanks to everyone who came out! An extra
special shout is going out to Chris & Charles for coming all the way from
Salem. Also, of course, *huge* thanks to our presenters, Adam Lowry, Jason
Kirtland, Kirby Urner and Michel Pelletier - you guys rocked it. Here's a
quick summary and some links:

Michel Pelletier kicked off the meeting with a little demo of the turtle
module (http://docs.python.org/library/turtle.html). turtle is part of the
Python Standard Library and can be used to draw shapes and stuff. The turtle
was pretty cute, and he drew half a rectangle for us.

Kirby Urner let the group have sneak peek of his PyCon tutorial slides, and
entertained us with VPython (http://vpython.org/) demos. Kirby uses VPython
to teach young people programming and mathematical concepts at the Saturday
Academy (http://www.saturdayacademy.org/). Check out Kirby's website for
more information about the curriculum he has developed (
http://4dsolutions.net/ocn/index.html) and read his blog post about
Tuesday's meeting (http://controlroom.blogspot.com/2009/02/ppug-2009210.html)
if you're interested.

Jason Kirtland presented a new open source blogging engine called Zine (
http://zine.pocoo.org/). Zine is built on Werkzeug and is extremely
full-featured considering the latest release was only 0.1. It's easy to
deploy, and supports a bunch of different markup languages for creating
posts, as well as useful plugins like pygments. Even if you don't have a use
for Zine right now, Jason recommends checking out the source code because
it's *that* good.

Adam Lowry gave us a more in-depth look at Werkzeug (
http://werkzeug.pocoo.org/), an awesome WSGI toolkit that Michel Pelletier
introduced to the group last year. Adam talked a bit about how he uses
Werkzeug to create web applications without the constraints of a framework.
He had a series of excellent slides and example code to go along with it. It
isn't up online anywhere as of now, but Adam has said that if anyone is
interested he can make the slides and examples available.

After the meeting most of the group headed over to rontoms (
http://www.rontoms.net/ - hint: select all ;)) on Burnside for continued
discussion, beverages and fondue. Photos of the evening are up on Flickr (
http://tinyurl.com/pdxpy0209) if anyone wants to see them!

If you weren't able to make it out this month, I hope you'll check out the
next meeting on March 10th. Details about the March meeting should be coming
up soon. Also, If anyone has an idea for a talk they'd like to give at an
upcoming meeting, something they really want to hear about, or anything else
PDX Python-related, send your ideas to the list, or to
snakeherders at pdxpython.org.


Thanks. :)

michelle
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From adam at therobots.org  Wed Feb 25 01:58:40 2009
From: adam at therobots.org (Adam Lowry)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 16:58:40 -0800
Subject: [portland] Hotel share for PyCon
Message-ID: <5F609279-3B98-4874-920F-B66DA46A9CEA@THEROBOTS.ORG>

Before I posted on the wiki I thought I'd ask locally. Is anyone going  
to PyCon that wants to share a room? I'm arriving Thursday evening and  
staying until Tuesday evening (two days of the sprints). I was  
thinking of staying in the Hyatt for the first three nights and the  
Crowne for Sunday & Monday-- being in the hotel where the conference  
is is nice-- but I could be convinced to do the cheaper Crowne for all  
four nights.

Adam