[Pandas-dev] Discourse discussion forum

Wed Sep 25 09:03:11 EDT 2019

Discourse has private categories, we already have a private "Maintainers"
one, that only admins can see and use. And there are other permissions
levels that can be used. For example, we can have a private category for
the memebers of the code of conduct committee... I just need to check if we
can associate email addresses to those groups, so when someone emails to
coc at pandas.io the messages are posted in that private group. But if we can
set up that as we need, I think we should be able to replace all those and
centralize everything in Discourse.

I'm skeptical on being able to set up a global Discourse for all the
ecosystem, where things are easy to find, based on how Discourse works and
the tests I did. I'd move forward with our own for now if nobody is able to
set that up.

Andy, I got the pandas account approved in minutes. I see that we can have
a custom domain, so you can use the pandas and see if we can manage to have
multiple projects in a way we like, and if we do we just change the domain
to discuss.pydata.org (or whatever). You're already an admin, feel free to
experiment and change the set up as you need.

Maarten, not sure I understand your point. Not a fan of Discourse so far,
but I think having the user and the devs discussions in a single place
makes it easier to find the information, and I think Discourse interface
also makes it easier to find compared to mailman, or google groups.
Regardless of gitter (there are no important discussions or decision making
there I think), would you prefer to stay with mailman and google groups
over Discourse? Or what you think would be the ideal or best option?

Thanks!

On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 8:39 AM Joris Van den Bossche <
jorisvandenbossche at gmail.com> wrote:

> What do other people think about starting to use discourse for pandas?
> (and about sharing it with other projects or having our own?)
>
> --
>
> On the existing lists: I don't think discourse would replace the core devs
> list (that is intentionally private). And IMO also not gitter (discourse is
> not a real-time chat).
>
> Joris
>
> On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 14:58, Marc Garcia <garcia.marc at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> For what I've seen I'd say that Discourse can be configured to interact
>> with a category like a distribution list (subscribe and have an email
>> address to send messages there). Not sure, but for the settings I've seen
>> should be possible.
>>
>> Personally I think it should replace all the existing lists:
>> - pydata google group
>> - pandas-dev (this)
>> - core devs list
>>
>> I'm also ok to get rid of gitter once we move to discourse (also ok to
>> keep it if people find it useful, but I rarely use it).
>>
>> I created an issue for this discussion some time ago:
>> https://github.com/pandas-dev/pandas/issues/27903
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 1:50 PM Tom Augspurger <
>> tom.augspurger88 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:57 AM Andy Terrel <andy at numfocus.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks Joris for splitting the thread, sorry if I hijacked the other
>>>> one.
>>>>
>>>> For some discussion from numpy you can see here
>>>> https://github.com/numpy/numpy.org/issues/28
>>>>
>>>> Julia and Jupyter both run their own discourse but Dask, Numpy, Scipy
>>>> have all told me “I don’t want to run it ourselves but be part of a larger
>>>> one”
>>>>
>>>> I bet we can figure out how to organize it.
>>>>
>>>> I just put in an application to get pydata.discourse.org.
>>>>
>>>> — Andy
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:52 AM Joris Van den Bossche <
>>>> jorisvandenbossche at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> (let's use a new thread for discourse, as it is a different discussion
>>>>> from the website hosting I think, regardless whether OVH might also host
>>>>> discourse)
>>>>>
>>>>> I am not familiar enough myself with discourse to know whether
>>>>> multiple projects sharing a single discourse will become annoying. But
>>>>> indeed, that sounds as it needs some kind of hierarchical category /
>>>>> tagging.
>>>>>
>>>>> For pandas itself: I think I quite like the idea of having a
>>>>> discourse, but *if* we do that, we should think about how that fits
>>>>> with / replaces / adds to /... some of the other communication channels
>>>>> (pandas-dev mailing list, pydata mailing list, github issues, ..).
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> IMO, we can replace the pandas-dev & pydata mailing lists with it.
>>> Possibly gitter as well.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Joris
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 13:18, Marc Garcia <garcia.marc at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm fine with that conceptually, but I think Discourse will make
>>>>>> things quite tricky to find things then.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We already got our discourse approved, if you want to join it an
>>>>>> experiment with the setting. But it's the first thing I tried, and after
>>>>>> you join a category (project), everything feels like it's in the same place
>>>>>> (even if subcategories and tags exist). And I think we need at least a
>>>>>> clear separation between pandas/users pandas/contributors discussions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> May be I just couldn't find the settings, let me know if you manage
>>>>>> to get a multi-project set up that makes sense.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 12:07 PM Tom Augspurger <
>>>>>> tom.augspurger88 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'd prefer to join a discourse along with NumPy, Dask, and other
>>>>>>> PyData or NumFOCUS projects, rather than going out on our own.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 4:47 AM Marc Garcia <garcia.marc at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't know much about discourse, but why do we want to self-host
>>>>>>>> it? Seems like Discourse does it for free for open source projects:
>>>>>>>> https://free.discourse.group/ And I don't think we want another
>>>>>>>> system to maintain. Am I missing something?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I applied for https://pandas.discourse.group, so we can give it a
>>>>>>>> try. We should have it approved and working in couple of days.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For what I saw, Discourse has one level of categories, so I guess
>>>>>>>> we want one per project, so we can have categories for "Users",
>>>>>>>> "Contributors", "Ecosystem"... or something similar. I guess if we have a
>>>>>>>> single Discourse for NumFOCUS, every project will be a category, and it'll
>>>>>>>> be difficult to group conversations.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If anyone already has experience with Discourse and disagrees with
>>>>>>>> my guesses, please let me know.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 4:32 PM Andy Terrel <andy at numfocus.org>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sounds great to me. Just let me know where everything goes.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> NumPy wants me to help host a discourse for them, maybe OVH would
>>>>>>>>> be a good place to do that as well, (although I would be more inclinded if
>>>>>>>>> it was pydata and we had pandas, scipy, and numpy on it).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -- Andy
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 8:51 AM Tom Augspurger <
>>>>>>>>> tom.augspurger88 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sounds good w.r.t crediting OVH on those pages.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> For the ASV results at pandas.pydata.org/speed (which I now
>>>>>>>>>> notice is currently broken for pandas), the only thing on the webserver is a
>>>>>>>>>> cron job doing a `git pull` from
>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/asv-runner/asv-collection, from within
>>>>>>>>>> `/usr/share/nginx`.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Tom
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 8:18 AM Marc Garcia <
>>>>>>>>>> garcia.marc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> An update on the new website infrastructure. We need to finish
>>>>>>>>>>> discussing the details, but OVH is happy to provide the hosting for the
>>>>>>>>>>> pandas infrastructure we need.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> My initial idea is to credit them in the page with the rest of
>>>>>>>>>>> the sponsors in the new website:
>>>>>>>>>>> https://datapythonista.github.io/pandas-web/community/team.html#institutional-partners and
>>>>>>>>>>> also in the top right corner of the runnable code widgets (see for example
>>>>>>>>>>> where Binder is credited here: https://spacy.io/).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What I'd like to ask is:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 1. For the production website and docs (static content only, for
>>>>>>>>>>> the traffic we need):
>>>>>>>>>>> https://us.ovhcloud.com/products/public-cloud/object-storage
>>>>>>>>>>> 2. For our tools and processes, like the benchmarks, builds, CI
>>>>>>>>>>> stuff (temporary publish the docs for every PR,...):
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.ovh.co.uk/vps/vps-ssd.xml (VPS SSD 3)
>>>>>>>>>>> 3. For BinderHub (runnable code in our docs, launch tutorials on
>>>>>>>>>>> Binder...): https://www.ovh.co.uk/public-cloud/kubernetes/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> For the BinderHub, QuantStack offered help with the set up
>>>>>>>>>>> (which is great, because I don't know much about Binder myself, and I'm not
>>>>>>>>>>> sure if anyone else does or wants to take care of this). I don't think
>>>>>>>>>>> it'll be easy to estimate how big is the cluster we need beforehand, but I
>>>>>>>>>>> guess we can add things to Binder iteratively, and have more info as we
>>>>>>>>>>> grow.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> OVH gave us a 200 euros voucher to experiment with the different
>>>>>>>>>>> services. Let me know how all this sounds, and if there are no objections,
>>>>>>>>>>> I'll create an account and buy those services with the voucher, and I'll
>>>>>>>>>>> start to prototype and see how everything works.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 11:06 PM Marc Garcia <
>>>>>>>>>>> garcia.marc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Somehow related to the work on the new website (
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/pandas-dev/pandas/pull/28014), I've been
>>>>>>>>>>>> discussing with the Binder team, and looks like should be quite easy soon
>>>>>>>>>>>> (with a Sphinx extension) to make all the documentation pages runnable with
>>>>>>>>>>>> Binder, directly from the website (without opening the page as a Jupyter in
>>>>>>>>>>>> mybinder).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> While they are very happy with the idea of having this is
>>>>>>>>>>>> pandas, it's uncertain if the current infrastructure Binder has got, is
>>>>>>>>>>>> able to handle all the traffic we would send. And scikit-learn is working
>>>>>>>>>>>> on it too (today they added to the dev docs a link to mybinder to run the
>>>>>>>>>>>> examples).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm discussing with OVH (their infrastructure provider) on
>>>>>>>>>>>> whether they'd be happy to provide a dedicated BinderHub specific to pandas
>>>>>>>>>>>> (or may be we can have one for all NumFOCUS projects). We'll see how it
>>>>>>>>>>>> goes, but wanted to let you know, so you're updated, and in case anyone is
>>>>>>>>>>>> interested in participating in the discussions. Of course before any
>>>>>>>>>>>> decision is made I'll open a discussion here or on GitHub.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> As part of the discussion I'm also trying to get a server for
>>>>>>>>>>>> the website, and one for development stuff. Specfically for the dev docs
>>>>>>>>>>>> (including rendered docs of every PR) and the GitHub app that will generate
>>>>>>>>>>>> them. I guess it should be very easy to find a sponsor for these two
>>>>>>>>>>>> servers (in exchange of a small note in the footer of the website, or
>>>>>>>>>>>> something like that).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me know if you have any comment, want to be involved or
>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Pandas-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Pandas-dev at python.org
>>>>>>>>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Andy R. Terrel, PhD
>>>>>>>>> President
>>>>>>>>> NumFOCUS
>>>>>>>>> andy at numfocus.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Pandas-dev mailing list
>>>>>> Pandas-dev at python.org
>>>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>> Andy R. Terrel, PhD
>>>> President
>>>> NumFOCUS
>>>> andy at numfocus.org
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
> Pandas-dev mailing list
> Pandas-dev at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev
>
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