[Pandas-dev] Discourse discussion forum

Tue Oct 29 13:06:55 EDT 2019

I personally don't see the value of having a common discourse for all the
projects, where the top-level is a list of possibly 100 items, where pandas
has few groups lost there, and not more structure than that, as opposed to
have a discourse per project.

Single-login is the only advantage I can see, and this can also be achieved
with separate groups for what I've seen.

Tom, Joris, I think you were the ones who preferred having a common
discourse. Does it still sounds as the best option, given the limitations?

On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 11:51 AM Andy Ray Terrel <andy at numfocus.org> wrote:

> Sorry I've been traveling.
>
> I have https://pydata.discourse. <http://pydata.discourse.org>group set
> up. I can send out invites.
>
> I guess as you have pointed out, we can set up categories for each
> project, e.g. dask-users, pandas-users, pandas-dev, but maybe not exactly
> what you want.
>
> Happy to invite anyone to the discourse instance before we open it up to
> the wild
>
> -- Andy
>
> On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 9:24 AM Marc Garcia <garcia.marc at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Andy, could you experiment on having multiple projects in a single
>> discourse? I saw the PyData one was activated some time ago.
>>
>> If it doesn't look feasible as I think, let me know so I'll move forward
>> discussing what to have in the pandas one.
>>
>> Cheers!
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 8:03 AM Marc Garcia <garcia.marc at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Discourse has private categories, we already have a private
>>> "Maintainers" one, that only admins can see and use. And there are other
>>> permissions levels that can be used. For example, we can have a private
>>> category for the memebers of the code of conduct committee... I just need
>>> to check if we can associate email addresses to those groups, so when
>>> someone emails to coc at pandas.io the messages are posted in that private
>>> group. But if we can set up that as we need, I think we should be able to
>>> replace all those and centralize everything in Discourse.
>>>
>>> I'm skeptical on being able to set up a global Discourse for all the
>>> ecosystem, where things are easy to find, based on how Discourse works and
>>> the tests I did. I'd move forward with our own for now if nobody is able to
>>> set that up.
>>>
>>> Andy, I got the pandas account approved in minutes. I see that we can
>>> have a custom domain, so you can use the pandas and see if we can manage to
>>> have multiple projects in a way we like, and if we do we just change the
>>> domain to discuss.pydata.org (or whatever). You're already an admin,
>>> feel free to experiment and change the set up as you need.
>>>
>>> Maarten, not sure I understand your point. Not a fan of Discourse so
>>> far, but I think having the user and the devs discussions in a single place
>>> makes it easier to find the information, and I think Discourse interface
>>> also makes it easier to find compared to mailman, or google groups.
>>> Regardless of gitter (there are no important discussions or decision making
>>> there I think), would you prefer to stay with mailman and google groups
>>> over Discourse? Or what you think would be the ideal or best option?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 8:39 AM Joris Van den Bossche <
>>> jorisvandenbossche at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> What do other people think about starting to use discourse for pandas?
>>>> (and about sharing it with other projects or having our own?)
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> On the existing lists: I don't think discourse would replace the core
>>>> devs list (that is intentionally private). And IMO also not gitter
>>>> (discourse is not a real-time chat).
>>>>
>>>> Joris
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 14:58, Marc Garcia <garcia.marc at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> For what I've seen I'd say that Discourse can be configured to
>>>>> interact with a category like a distribution list (subscribe and have an
>>>>> email address to send messages there). Not sure, but for the settings I've
>>>>> seen should be possible.
>>>>>
>>>>> Personally I think it should replace all the existing lists:
>>>>> - pydata google group
>>>>> - pandas-dev (this)
>>>>> - core devs list
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm also ok to get rid of gitter once we move to discourse (also ok to
>>>>> keep it if people find it useful, but I rarely use it).
>>>>>
>>>>> I created an issue for this discussion some time ago:
>>>>> https://github.com/pandas-dev/pandas/issues/27903
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 1:50 PM Tom Augspurger <
>>>>> tom.augspurger88 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:57 AM Andy Terrel <andy at numfocus.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks Joris for splitting the thread, sorry if I hijacked the other
>>>>>>> one.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For some discussion from numpy you can see here
>>>>>>> https://github.com/numpy/numpy.org/issues/28
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Julia and Jupyter both run their own discourse but Dask, Numpy,
>>>>>>> Scipy have all told me “I don’t want to run it ourselves but be part of a
>>>>>>> larger one”
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I bet we can figure out how to organize it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I just put in an application to get pydata.discourse.org.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> — Andy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:52 AM Joris Van den Bossche <
>>>>>>> jorisvandenbossche at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (let's use a new thread for discourse, as it is a different
>>>>>>>> discussion from the website hosting I think, regardless whether OVH might
>>>>>>>> also host discourse)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am not familiar enough myself with discourse to know whether
>>>>>>>> multiple projects sharing a single discourse will become annoying. But
>>>>>>>> indeed, that sounds as it needs some kind of hierarchical category /
>>>>>>>> tagging.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For pandas itself: I think I quite like the idea of having a
>>>>>>>> discourse, but *if* we do that, we should think about how that
>>>>>>>> fits with / replaces / adds to /... some of the other communication
>>>>>>>> channels (pandas-dev mailing list, pydata mailing list, github issues, ..).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> IMO, we can replace the pandas-dev & pydata mailing lists with it.
>>>>>> Possibly gitter as well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Joris
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 13:18, Marc Garcia <garcia.marc at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm fine with that conceptually, but I think Discourse will make
>>>>>>>>> things quite tricky to find things then.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We already got our discourse approved, if you want to join it an
>>>>>>>>> experiment with the setting. But it's the first thing I tried, and after
>>>>>>>>> you join a category (project), everything feels like it's in the same place
>>>>>>>>> (even if subcategories and tags exist). And I think we need at least a
>>>>>>>>> clear separation between pandas/users pandas/contributors discussions.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> May be I just couldn't find the settings, let me know if you
>>>>>>>>> manage to get a multi-project set up that makes sense.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 12:07 PM Tom Augspurger <
>>>>>>>>> tom.augspurger88 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'd prefer to join a discourse along with NumPy, Dask, and other
>>>>>>>>>> PyData or NumFOCUS projects, rather than going out on our own.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 4:47 AM Marc Garcia <
>>>>>>>>>> garcia.marc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't know much about discourse, but why do we want to
>>>>>>>>>>> self-host it? Seems like Discourse does it for free for open source
>>>>>>>>>>> projects: https://free.discourse.group/ And I don't think we
>>>>>>>>>>> want another system to maintain. Am I missing something?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I applied for https://pandas.discourse.group, so we can give it
>>>>>>>>>>> a try. We should have it approved and working in couple of days.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> For what I saw, Discourse has one level of categories, so I
>>>>>>>>>>> guess we want one per project, so we can have categories for "Users",
>>>>>>>>>>> "Contributors", "Ecosystem"... or something similar. I guess if we have a
>>>>>>>>>>> single Discourse for NumFOCUS, every project will be a category, and it'll
>>>>>>>>>>> be difficult to group conversations.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If anyone already has experience with Discourse and disagrees
>>>>>>>>>>> with my guesses, please let me know.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 4:32 PM Andy Terrel <andy at numfocus.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sounds great to me. Just let me know where everything goes.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> NumPy wants me to help host a discourse for them, maybe OVH
>>>>>>>>>>>> would be a good place to do that as well, (although I would be more
>>>>>>>>>>>> inclinded if it was pydata and we had pandas, scipy, and numpy on it).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -- Andy
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 8:51 AM Tom Augspurger <
>>>>>>>>>>>> tom.augspurger88 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sounds good w.r.t crediting OVH on those pages.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> For the ASV results at pandas.pydata.org/speed (which I now
>>>>>>>>>>>>> notice is currently broken for pandas), the only thing on the webserver is a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> cron job doing a `git pull` from
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/asv-runner/asv-collection, from within
>>>>>>>>>>>>> `/usr/share/nginx`.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tom
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 8:18 AM Marc Garcia <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> garcia.marc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> An update on the new website infrastructure. We need to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finish discussing the details, but OVH is happy to provide the hosting for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the pandas infrastructure we need.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My initial idea is to credit them in the page with the rest
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the sponsors in the new website:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://datapythonista.github.io/pandas-web/community/team.html#institutional-partners and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also in the top right corner of the runnable code widgets (see for example
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where Binder is credited here: https://spacy.io/).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I'd like to ask is:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. For the production website and docs (static content only,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the traffic we need):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://us.ovhcloud.com/products/public-cloud/object-storage
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. For our tools and processes, like the benchmarks, builds,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CI stuff (temporary publish the docs for every PR,...):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.ovh.co.uk/vps/vps-ssd.xml (VPS SSD 3)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. For BinderHub (runnable code in our docs, launch tutorials
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on Binder...): https://www.ovh.co.uk/public-cloud/kubernetes/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For the BinderHub, QuantStack offered help with the set up
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (which is great, because I don't know much about Binder myself, and I'm not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sure if anyone else does or wants to take care of this). I don't think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it'll be easy to estimate how big is the cluster we need beforehand, but I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guess we can add things to Binder iteratively, and have more info as we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grow.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OVH gave us a 200 euros voucher to experiment with the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different services. Let me know how all this sounds, and if there are no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> objections, I'll create an account and buy those services with the voucher,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and I'll start to prototype and see how everything works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 11:06 PM Marc Garcia <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> garcia.marc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Somehow related to the work on the new website (
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/pandas-dev/pandas/pull/28014), I've been
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussing with the Binder team, and looks like should be quite easy soon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (with a Sphinx extension) to make all the documentation pages runnable with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Binder, directly from the website (without opening the page as a Jupyter in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mybinder).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While they are very happy with the idea of having this is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pandas, it's uncertain if the current infrastructure Binder has got, is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> able to handle all the traffic we would send. And scikit-learn is working
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on it too (today they added to the dev docs a link to mybinder to run the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> examples).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm discussing with OVH (their infrastructure provider) on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whether they'd be happy to provide a dedicated BinderHub specific to pandas
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (or may be we can have one for all NumFOCUS projects). We'll see how it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> goes, but wanted to let you know, so you're updated, and in case anyone is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interested in participating in the discussions. Of course before any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> decision is made I'll open a discussion here or on GitHub.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As part of the discussion I'm also trying to get a server
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the website, and one for development stuff. Specfically for the dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> docs (including rendered docs of every PR) and the GitHub app that will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generate them. I guess it should be very easy to find a sponsor for these
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> two servers (in exchange of a small note in the footer of the website, or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something like that).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me know if you have any comment, want to be involved or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pandas-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pandas-dev at python.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Andy R. Terrel, PhD
>>>>>>>>>>>> President
>>>>>>>>>>>> NumFOCUS
>>>>>>>>>>>> andy at numfocus.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Pandas-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Pandas-dev at python.org
>>>>>>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Andy R. Terrel, PhD
>>>>>>> President
>>>>>>> NumFOCUS
>>>>>>> andy at numfocus.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Pandas-dev mailing list
>>>> Pandas-dev at python.org
>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>> Pandas-dev mailing list
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>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev
>>
>
>
> --
> Andy R. Terrel, PhD
> President, NumFOCUS
> andy at numfocus.org
>
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