[Pandas-dev] Discourse discussion forum

Tue Oct 29 12:23:49 EDT 2019

Andy, could you experiment on having multiple projects in a single
discourse? I saw the PyData one was activated some time ago.

If it doesn't look feasible as I think, let me know so I'll move forward
discussing what to have in the pandas one.

Cheers!

On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 8:03 AM Marc Garcia <garcia.marc at gmail.com> wrote:

> Discourse has private categories, we already have a private "Maintainers"
> one, that only admins can see and use. And there are other permissions
> levels that can be used. For example, we can have a private category for
> the memebers of the code of conduct committee... I just need to check if we
> can associate email addresses to those groups, so when someone emails to
> coc at pandas.io the messages are posted in that private group. But if we
> can set up that as we need, I think we should be able to replace all those
> and centralize everything in Discourse.
>
> I'm skeptical on being able to set up a global Discourse for all the
> ecosystem, where things are easy to find, based on how Discourse works and
> the tests I did. I'd move forward with our own for now if nobody is able to
> set that up.
>
> Andy, I got the pandas account approved in minutes. I see that we can have
> a custom domain, so you can use the pandas and see if we can manage to have
> multiple projects in a way we like, and if we do we just change the domain
> to discuss.pydata.org (or whatever). You're already an admin, feel free
> to experiment and change the set up as you need.
>
> Maarten, not sure I understand your point. Not a fan of Discourse so far,
> but I think having the user and the devs discussions in a single place
> makes it easier to find the information, and I think Discourse interface
> also makes it easier to find compared to mailman, or google groups.
> Regardless of gitter (there are no important discussions or decision making
> there I think), would you prefer to stay with mailman and google groups
> over Discourse? Or what you think would be the ideal or best option?
>
> Thanks!
>
> On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 8:39 AM Joris Van den Bossche <
> jorisvandenbossche at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> What do other people think about starting to use discourse for pandas?
>> (and about sharing it with other projects or having our own?)
>>
>> --
>>
>> On the existing lists: I don't think discourse would replace the core
>> devs list (that is intentionally private). And IMO also not gitter
>> (discourse is not a real-time chat).
>>
>> Joris
>>
>> On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 14:58, Marc Garcia <garcia.marc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> For what I've seen I'd say that Discourse can be configured to interact
>>> with a category like a distribution list (subscribe and have an email
>>> address to send messages there). Not sure, but for the settings I've seen
>>> should be possible.
>>>
>>> Personally I think it should replace all the existing lists:
>>> - pydata google group
>>> - pandas-dev (this)
>>> - core devs list
>>>
>>> I'm also ok to get rid of gitter once we move to discourse (also ok to
>>> keep it if people find it useful, but I rarely use it).
>>>
>>> I created an issue for this discussion some time ago:
>>> https://github.com/pandas-dev/pandas/issues/27903
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 1:50 PM Tom Augspurger <
>>> tom.augspurger88 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:57 AM Andy Terrel <andy at numfocus.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks Joris for splitting the thread, sorry if I hijacked the other
>>>>> one.
>>>>>
>>>>> For some discussion from numpy you can see here
>>>>> https://github.com/numpy/numpy.org/issues/28
>>>>>
>>>>> Julia and Jupyter both run their own discourse but Dask, Numpy, Scipy
>>>>> have all told me “I don’t want to run it ourselves but be part of a larger
>>>>> one”
>>>>>
>>>>> I bet we can figure out how to organize it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I just put in an application to get pydata.discourse.org.
>>>>>
>>>>> — Andy
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:52 AM Joris Van den Bossche <
>>>>> jorisvandenbossche at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> (let's use a new thread for discourse, as it is a different
>>>>>> discussion from the website hosting I think, regardless whether OVH might
>>>>>> also host discourse)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am not familiar enough myself with discourse to know whether
>>>>>> multiple projects sharing a single discourse will become annoying. But
>>>>>> indeed, that sounds as it needs some kind of hierarchical category /
>>>>>> tagging.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For pandas itself: I think I quite like the idea of having a
>>>>>> discourse, but *if* we do that, we should think about how that fits
>>>>>> with / replaces / adds to /... some of the other communication channels
>>>>>> (pandas-dev mailing list, pydata mailing list, github issues, ..).
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> IMO, we can replace the pandas-dev & pydata mailing lists with it.
>>>> Possibly gitter as well.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Joris
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 13:18, Marc Garcia <garcia.marc at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm fine with that conceptually, but I think Discourse will make
>>>>>>> things quite tricky to find things then.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We already got our discourse approved, if you want to join it an
>>>>>>> experiment with the setting. But it's the first thing I tried, and after
>>>>>>> you join a category (project), everything feels like it's in the same place
>>>>>>> (even if subcategories and tags exist). And I think we need at least a
>>>>>>> clear separation between pandas/users pandas/contributors discussions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> May be I just couldn't find the settings, let me know if you manage
>>>>>>> to get a multi-project set up that makes sense.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 12:07 PM Tom Augspurger <
>>>>>>> tom.augspurger88 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'd prefer to join a discourse along with NumPy, Dask, and other
>>>>>>>> PyData or NumFOCUS projects, rather than going out on our own.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 4:47 AM Marc Garcia <garcia.marc at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't know much about discourse, but why do we want to self-host
>>>>>>>>> it? Seems like Discourse does it for free for open source projects:
>>>>>>>>> https://free.discourse.group/ And I don't think we want another
>>>>>>>>> system to maintain. Am I missing something?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I applied for https://pandas.discourse.group, so we can give it a
>>>>>>>>> try. We should have it approved and working in couple of days.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> For what I saw, Discourse has one level of categories, so I guess
>>>>>>>>> we want one per project, so we can have categories for "Users",
>>>>>>>>> "Contributors", "Ecosystem"... or something similar. I guess if we have a
>>>>>>>>> single Discourse for NumFOCUS, every project will be a category, and it'll
>>>>>>>>> be difficult to group conversations.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If anyone already has experience with Discourse and disagrees with
>>>>>>>>> my guesses, please let me know.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 4:32 PM Andy Terrel <andy at numfocus.org>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sounds great to me. Just let me know where everything goes.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> NumPy wants me to help host a discourse for them, maybe OVH would
>>>>>>>>>> be a good place to do that as well, (although I would be more inclinded if
>>>>>>>>>> it was pydata and we had pandas, scipy, and numpy on it).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -- Andy
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 8:51 AM Tom Augspurger <
>>>>>>>>>> tom.augspurger88 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sounds good w.r.t crediting OVH on those pages.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> For the ASV results at pandas.pydata.org/speed (which I now
>>>>>>>>>>> notice is currently broken for pandas), the only thing on the webserver is a
>>>>>>>>>>> cron job doing a `git pull` from
>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/asv-runner/asv-collection, from within
>>>>>>>>>>> `/usr/share/nginx`.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Tom
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 8:18 AM Marc Garcia <
>>>>>>>>>>> garcia.marc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> An update on the new website infrastructure. We need to finish
>>>>>>>>>>>> discussing the details, but OVH is happy to provide the hosting for the
>>>>>>>>>>>> pandas infrastructure we need.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> My initial idea is to credit them in the page with the rest of
>>>>>>>>>>>> the sponsors in the new website:
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://datapythonista.github.io/pandas-web/community/team.html#institutional-partners and
>>>>>>>>>>>> also in the top right corner of the runnable code widgets (see for example
>>>>>>>>>>>> where Binder is credited here: https://spacy.io/).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> What I'd like to ask is:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. For the production website and docs (static content only,
>>>>>>>>>>>> for the traffic we need):
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://us.ovhcloud.com/products/public-cloud/object-storage
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. For our tools and processes, like the benchmarks, builds, CI
>>>>>>>>>>>> stuff (temporary publish the docs for every PR,...):
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.ovh.co.uk/vps/vps-ssd.xml (VPS SSD 3)
>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. For BinderHub (runnable code in our docs, launch tutorials
>>>>>>>>>>>> on Binder...): https://www.ovh.co.uk/public-cloud/kubernetes/
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> For the BinderHub, QuantStack offered help with the set up
>>>>>>>>>>>> (which is great, because I don't know much about Binder myself, and I'm not
>>>>>>>>>>>> sure if anyone else does or wants to take care of this). I don't think
>>>>>>>>>>>> it'll be easy to estimate how big is the cluster we need beforehand, but I
>>>>>>>>>>>> guess we can add things to Binder iteratively, and have more info as we
>>>>>>>>>>>> grow.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> OVH gave us a 200 euros voucher to experiment with the
>>>>>>>>>>>> different services. Let me know how all this sounds, and if there are no
>>>>>>>>>>>> objections, I'll create an account and buy those services with the voucher,
>>>>>>>>>>>> and I'll start to prototype and see how everything works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 11:06 PM Marc Garcia <
>>>>>>>>>>>> garcia.marc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Somehow related to the work on the new website (
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/pandas-dev/pandas/pull/28014), I've been
>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussing with the Binder team, and looks like should be quite easy soon
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (with a Sphinx extension) to make all the documentation pages runnable with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Binder, directly from the website (without opening the page as a Jupyter in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mybinder).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> While they are very happy with the idea of having this is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> pandas, it's uncertain if the current infrastructure Binder has got, is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> able to handle all the traffic we would send. And scikit-learn is working
>>>>>>>>>>>>> on it too (today they added to the dev docs a link to mybinder to run the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> examples).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm discussing with OVH (their infrastructure provider) on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> whether they'd be happy to provide a dedicated BinderHub specific to pandas
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (or may be we can have one for all NumFOCUS projects). We'll see how it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> goes, but wanted to let you know, so you're updated, and in case anyone is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> interested in participating in the discussions. Of course before any
>>>>>>>>>>>>> decision is made I'll open a discussion here or on GitHub.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> As part of the discussion I'm also trying to get a server for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the website, and one for development stuff. Specfically for the dev docs
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (including rendered docs of every PR) and the GitHub app that will generate
>>>>>>>>>>>>> them. I guess it should be very easy to find a sponsor for these two
>>>>>>>>>>>>> servers (in exchange of a small note in the footer of the website, or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> something like that).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me know if you have any comment, want to be involved or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Pandas-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Pandas-dev at python.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Andy R. Terrel, PhD
>>>>>>>>>> President
>>>>>>>>>> NumFOCUS
>>>>>>>>>> andy at numfocus.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Pandas-dev mailing list
>>>>>>> Pandas-dev at python.org
>>>>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>> Andy R. Terrel, PhD
>>>>> President
>>>>> NumFOCUS
>>>>> andy at numfocus.org
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>> Pandas-dev mailing list
>> Pandas-dev at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev
>>
>
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