From jeffreback at gmail.com Wed Aug 7 19:41:59 2019 From: jeffreback at gmail.com (Jeff Reback) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2019 19:41:59 -0400 Subject: [Pandas-dev] pandas hackathon at walmart Message-ID: <36D8BCA5-C8D6-41B5-8FC8-7E2B31B1617C@gmail.com> walmart is having a 4 day pandas hackathon aug 15-18 in bentonville last minute anyone would like to go and mentor people? (they are looking mostly for sat/sunday). i am not sure how large it?s going to be or what level of folks but could be fun. Jeff Begin forwarded message: > From: Desmond Thomas > Date: August 7, 2019 at 7:35:39 PM EDT > To: Jeff Reback > Cc: Sam B > Subject: Re: EXT: Re: Pandas Hack Travel (Sam) > > Mostly Saturday and Sunday. > > Best, > Desmond Thomas > > On Aug 7, 2019, at 6:31 PM, Jeff Reback wrote: > >> what dates are you looking at? >> >> On Aug 7, 2019, at 7:24 PM, Sam B wrote: >> >>> Sadly not off the top of my head, especially in such short notice. I'll forward to the pandas team in case they have a mailing that may be interested. >>> >>> >>>> On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 10:24 AM Desmond Thomas wrote: >>>> Hey there, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Do you know any people with extensive knowledge on pandas or python who?d want to come with us to Bentonville? Looks like we?re short on technical mentors for that space. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> They?ll have access to virtual mentors from Dallas and Austin, but would love to have some in-person people too. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Desmond Thomas >>>> >>>> Community & Operations Manager >>>> >>>> GBS Emerging Technology ? Austin, TX >>>> >>>> M: 512-915-5752 >>>> >>>> E: Desmond.Thomas at Walmart.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: Sam B >>>> Date: Tuesday, August 6, 2019 at 4:36 PM >>>> To: Desmond Thomas >>>> Subject: Re: EXT: Re: Pandas Hack Travel (Sam) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Ok, let's plan to me fly-in on Wednesday. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sam >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 4:56 PM Desmond Thomas wrote: >>>> >>>> Hey Sam! You can come fly in on either Wednesday or Thursday. Whatever is best for you: then fly back on Monday. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Desmond Thomas >>>> >>>> >>>> On Aug 6, 2019, at 3:28 PM, Sam B wrote: >>>> >>>> One more clarification, what dates exactly will my flight be? I'm asking so I can set my office calendar OOO appropriately. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks again! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sam >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, August 6, 2019, Sam B wrote: >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Emergency contact: Angela Brice, 646-484-1030 >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, August 6, 2019, Emma Turner wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Sam! The dates would be Wednesday 08-14-19 thru Monday 08-19-19. I will also need emergency contact info for you ? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> Emma Turner >>>> Assistant to Anton Groom >>>> >>>> DGTC 1 East, Pole A10 >>>> >>>> emma.turner at walmart.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Walmart Inc. >>>> >>>> 805 Moberly Ln, Bentonville, AR 72716 >>>> >>>> Saving people money so they can live better. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: Sam B >>>> Sent: Monday, August 5, 2019 9:21 PM >>>> To: Desmond Thomas >>>> Cc: Emma Turner >>>> Subject: EXT: Re: Pandas Hack Travel (Sam) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sure thing, my info is below. Can you clarify the dates again, seems the numbers/days are out of sync. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> TSA Pre-Check: 983128274 >>>> >>>> First Name: Samuel >>>> >>>> Last Name: Brice >>>> >>>> Date of Birth: 08/17/1987 >>>> >>>> Phone Number: 646-450-2537 >>>> >>>> Email: brices at gmail.com >>>> >>>> American Airlines Aadvantage ID >>>> >>>> United Points ID: JL815239 >>>> >>>> IHG Points ID: N/A >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 1:03 PM Desmond Thomas wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Sam, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Can you please send the following information for us to book your travel? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> First Name >>>> >>>> Last Name >>>> >>>> Date of Birth >>>> >>>> Phone Number >>>> >>>> Email >>>> >>>> American Airlines Aadvantage ID >>>> >>>> United Points ID >>>> >>>> IHG Points ID >>>> >>>> Are you ok with traveling on Wednesday (August 15th) and Monday (August 20th)? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Desmond Thomas >>>> >>>> Community & Operations Manager >>>> >>>> GBS Emerging Technology ? Austin, TX >>>> >>>> M: 512-915-5752 >>>> >>>> E: Desmond.Thomas at Walmart.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Sent from Mobile >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Sent from Mobile >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tom.augspurger88 at gmail.com Thu Aug 8 12:51:49 2019 From: tom.augspurger88 at gmail.com (Tom Augspurger) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 11:51:49 -0500 Subject: [Pandas-dev] Tidelift In-Reply-To: <5fafd563dee86aa1907ec90faab4b04be6a1d135.camel@pietrobattiston.it> References: <57676A0D-A1E8-441B-B60D-AA64ADD9184B@icloud.com>

<5fafd563dee86aa1907ec90faab4b04be6a1d135.camel@pietrobattiston.it> Message-ID: FYI, we've been accepted by tidelift. I'm going through their tasks now. 1. Adding Tidelift to .github/funding.yml ( https://github.com/pandas-dev/pandas/pull/27823) 2. Adding a security disclosure plan ( https://github.com/pandas-dev/pandas/pull/27822) 3. Install the Tidelift GitHub application (I've requested the install, Jeff, can you approve?) 4. Publicize (https://github.com/pandas-dev/pandas-website/pull/78) 5. Setup 2FA on PyPI (I'll reach out to all our members on PyPI in a followup) Tom On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 2:07 PM Pietro Battiston wrote: > I agree with Jeff that having the money gives us options that we don't > have otherwise. So I'm generally +1 on the Tidelift offer. > > As to how to spend it, I think > > - we can certainly create topic-specific grants for freelancers when it > makes sense, we just do not want the pressure to necessarily create > grants just because we have the money > > - for what is not spent on grants, I suspect a simple online sheet > where each core dev each month states a) number of hours devoted to > pandas and b) use for the money ("in my pocket" vs. "in personal > Python-related tickets/expenses" vs. "in a fund for pandas expenses" - > although the latter options would probably be the same from the > project's side) would I think solve the hassle-profit tradeoff in the > simplest way. > > Pietro > > > Il giorno mar, 11/06/2019 alle 21.34 -0400, Jeff Reback ha scritto: > > I > > > One risk to be aware of is that if a high profile > > > project like pandas take's TL's money and none of the maintainers > > > pay > > > themselves with it, then the monthly number may not have as much of > > > a > > > chance of increasing (since current or prospective TL customers may > > > observe that the subscription dollars aren't being used in the way > > > that is being pitched). > > > > I actually see the exact opposite here. A project of pandas stature > > that decides to better the project is a pretty respectable goal. > > > > I believe we would be in the letter and more importantly the spirit > > of Tidelift for the pandas project itself to take this burden & > > receive the income. Having the project itself with the combined > > force of multiple maintainers actually would be much more comforting > > (from the customer's perspective), than a single maintainer (who may > > not always be there). > > > > Furthermore, we could use these funds for the combined benefit of the > > project, mainly I think for gatherings like the upcoming sprints. I > > am not sure many of you know, but pandas has not actively solicited > > *any* monies, and only received 2 largish contributions over the > > years, which are the majority of our current funds. The tidelift > > agreement looks to provide a stream of income which we currently do > > not have. With an income stream we have options; without we don't. > > > > We can always decide to remunerate maintainers who contribute to this > > effort, though, this should be a separate discussion. > > > > Jeff > > > > On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 5:10 PM Wes McKinney > > wrote: > > > On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 2:26 PM Andy Ray Terrel < > > > andy.terrel at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 12:51 PM Wes McKinney < > > > wesmckinn at gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> > > > >> hi, > > > >> > > > >> On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 11:16 AM Ralf Gommers < > > > ralf.gommers at gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 4:56 PM Andy Ray Terrel < > > > andy.terrel at gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> >> > > > >> >> While the original lifter agreement was an individual > > > contract, in our negotiations with Tidelift, NumFOCUS has > > > explicitly sought a model that allows the project to split the > > > money how they prefer. This was always Tidelift's intention, it was > > > just faster and easier to scale to focus on paying individuals. > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > +1 the project decides for themselves is the intent and a good > > > principle. > > > >> > > > > >> >> > > > >> >> I do like the idea of paying for maintence work, I would > > > recommend we set up folks as contractors with NumFOCUS rather than > > > just pocketing money. It will give a lot more legal protection. > > > Then if some folks don't want to take the cash you they can donate > > > their time and be recognized as in-kind donations, which might have > > > some tax deductions. > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > Keep in mind that this has a lot of potential issues. > > > Examples: > > > >> > 1. Who decides who gets paid, and how? The pandas repo has > > > 1500+ contributors. Lots of potential for friction over small > > > amount of $. > > > >> > > > >> More or less the _entire_ point of Tidelift is to incentivize > > > people > > > >> to do more maintenance work. I think it's worth at least > > > attempting to > > > >> use this money for its intended economic purpose. > > > >> > > > >> The maintainers are, as a first approximation, the ~10-15 active > > > core > > > >> members listed on > > > >> > > > >> https://github.com/pandas-dev/pandas-governance > > > >> > > > >> IMHO those are the people that should get paid (going forward) > > > -- if > > > >> contributors are more motivated to become core team members / > > > >> maintainers as a result of the Tidelift money, then it has had > > > the > > > >> desired outcome. > > > > > > > > > > > > I would suggest leaving the decision to the project core team > > > with the project Numfocus committee to be the overseer of the > > > implementation. > > > > > > > > > > Yes, of course, that's the governance that we have in place. I am > > > just > > > stressing that we should try to honor the intent of the asset that > > > is > > > being purchased by Tidelift customers. Tidelift is telling their > > > customers that the money they are paying is going to end up in the > > > pockets of the project maintainers > > > > > > https://tidelift.com/about/lifter > > > > > > If the pandas core team wishes to deny themselves the income > > > (which, > > > divided up, isn't going to be a life-changing amount of money) > > > that's > > > their prerogative -- I just wanted to be clear about where I stand > > > on > > > it, and there's nothing immoral about wanting to be compensated for > > > one's time (given how much volunteered time has already gone > > > uncompensated). One risk to be aware of is that if a high profile > > > project like pandas take's TL's money and none of the maintainers > > > pay > > > themselves with it, then the monthly number may not have as much of > > > a > > > chance of increasing (since current or prospective TL customers may > > > observe that the subscription dollars aren't being used in the way > > > that is being pitched). > > > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > 2. Many people have employment contracts, those typically > > > forbid contracting on the side. So inherently unfair to distribute > > > only to those who are in a position to accept the money. > > > >> > > > >> This is true -- at least Jeff and maybe others fall into this > > > >> category. In such cases their "cut" of the maintenance funds can > > > go > > > >> into the communal fund to pay for other stuff > > > >> > > > > > > > > Yes such accommodation will need to be worked out. > > > > > > > >> > > > >> > 3. You're now introducing lots of extra paperwork and admin, > > > both directly and indirectly (who wants to deal with the extra > > > complications when filing your taxes?). > > > >> > > > >> Hopefully we're talking just a 1099 from NumFOCUS with a single > > > number > > > >> to type in, but I'm the wrong person to judge since my taxes are > > > more > > > >> complicated than most people's =) > > > > > > > > > > > > Generally it is done that way for US based folks and for folks > > > out of the US we tend to let them handle their own taxes. We would > > > need to work that out. > > > > > > > > Additionally, as in all dealings with businesses, we do the extra > > > paperwork for the other benefits such as limiting the liability of > > > a maintainer. > > > > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > 4. It may create other weird social dynamics. E.g. if money is > > > now directly coupled to a commit bit, that makes the "who do we > > > give commit rights and when" a potentially more loaded question. > > > >> > > > >> I think this is where the honest self-reporting of time spent > > > comes > > > >> in. The goal is to increase the average number of maintainer > > > hours per > > > >> month/year. It's sort of like a crypto-mining pool, but for open > > > >> source software maintenance =) Obviously maintainers are > > > accountable > > > >> to the rest of the core team to behave with integrity > > > >> (professionalism, honesty, etc.) or they can be voted to be > > > removed if > > > >> they are found to be dishonest. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > And, dividing it into N chunks, the funding becomes nice beer > > > money and a thank you for volunteering. Could be exactly what you'd > > > prefer as a team. But that's imho more in line with the current > > > version of Patreon or GitHub Sponsors rather then with what > > > Tidelift is aiming for. > > > >> > > > > >> > I'd like the idea of "paying for maintenance" if there were > > > enough money to employ people. But realistically, that will take > > > many years. The Tidelift slogan on this is unrealistic for a > > > project like Pandas where maintenance effort is many FTEs; it's > > > perhaps feasible for your typical Javascript library that's popular > > > but small enough for one person maintaining it part-time. > > > >> > > > > >> >> > > > >> >> It is something I would volunteer to help manage in order to > > > learn how other projects might use the same techniques. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> -- Andy > > > >> >> > > > >> >> On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 9:13 AM Wes McKinney < > > > wesmckinn at gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> >>> > > > >> >>> > How you allocate the money to each other is something you > > > can debate privately > > > >> >>> > > > >> >>> On this, I'm sure that you could set up a lightweight > > > virtual > > > >> >>> "timesheet" so you can put yourselves "on the clock" when > > > you're doing > > > >> >>> project maintenance work (there are many of these online, I > > > just read > > > >> >>> about https://www.clockspot.com/ recently) to make time > > > reporting a > > > >> >>> bit more accurate > > > >> >>> > > > >> >>> On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 9:09 AM Wes McKinney < > > > wesmckinn at gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> >>> > > > > >> >>> > Personally, I would recommend putting most of the money in > > > your own > > > >> >>> > pockets. The whole idea of Tidelift (as I understand it) > > > is for the > > > >> >>> > individuals doing work that is of importance to project > > > users (to whom > > > >> >>> > Tidelift is providing indemnification and "insurance" > > > against defects) > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > Actually that's only partially true. Tidelift is paying for > > > very specific things, that allow them to do aggregated reporting on > > > licensing, dependencies, security vulnerabilities, release streams > > > & release docs, etc. - basically the stuff that helps large > > > corporations do due diligence and management of a large software > > > stack. > > > >> > > > > >> > It is explicitly out of scope to work on bugs or enhancements > > > in the NumFOCUS-Tidelift agreement (and working on particular > > > technical items was never their intention). So "insurance against > > > defects" isn't part of this, except in a very abstract sense of > > > making the project healthier and therefore reducing the risk of it > > > being abandoned or a lot more buggy on the many-year time scale. > > > >> > > > > >> > Cheers, > > > >> > Ralf > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> >>> > to get paid for their labor. So I think the most honest > > > way to use the > > > >> >>> > money is to put it in your respective bank accounts. If > > > you've getting > > > >> >>> > a little bit of money to spend on yourself, doesn't that > > > make doing > > > >> >>> > the maintenance work a bit less thankless? If you don't > > > pay > > > >> >>> > yourselves, I think it actually "breaks" Tidelift's pitch > > > to customers > > > >> >>> > which is that open source projects need to have a higher > > > fraction of > > > >> >>> > compensated maintenance and support work than they do now. > > > >> >>> > > > > >> >>> > How you allocate the money to each other is something you > > > can debate privately > > > >> >>> > > > > >> >>> > On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 8:42 AM Joris Van den Bossche > > > >> >>> > wrote: > > > >> >>> > > > > > >> >>> > > > > > >> >>> > > > > > >> >>> > > Op di 11 jun. 2019 om 15:31 schreef Ralf Gommers < > > > ralf.gommers at gmail.com>: > > > >> >>> > >> > > > >> >>> > >> > > > >> >>> > >> > > > >> >>> > >> On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 3:03 PM Tom Augspurger < > > > tom.augspurger88 at gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> >>> > >>> > > > >> >>> > >>> > > > >> >>> > >>> > > > >> >>> > >>> On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 7:58 AM William Ayd via > > > Pandas-dev wrote: > > > >> >>> > >>>> > > > >> >>> > >>>> Just some counterpoints to consider: > > > >> >>> > >>>> > > > >> >>> > >>>> - $ 3,000 a month isn?t really that much, and if it?s > > > just a number that a well-funded company chose for us chances are > > > they are benefiting from it way more than we are > > > >> >>> > >> > > > >> >>> > >> > > > >> >>> > >> "it's not really that much" is something I don't agree > > > with. It doesn't employ someone, but it's enough to pay for things > > > like developer meetups, hiring an extra GSoC student if a good one > > > happens to come along, paying a web dev for a full redesign of the > > > project website, etc. Each of those things is in the $5,000 - > > > %15,000 range, and it's _very_ nice to be able to do them without > > > having to look for funding first. > > > >> >>> > >> > > > >> >>> > >> Tidelift is a small (now ~25 employees) company by the > > > way, and they have a real understanding of the open source > > > sustainability issues and seem dedicated to helping fix it. > > > >> >>> > >> > > > >> >>> > >>>> - There is no such thing as free money; we have to > > > consider how to account for and actually manage it (perhaps > > > mitigated somewhat by NumFocus) > > > >> >>> > >>> > > > >> >>> > >>> > > > >> >>> > >>> Perhaps Ralph can share how this has gone for NumPy. I > > > imagine it's not too work on their end, thanks to NumFOCUS. > > > >> >>> > >> > > > >> >>> > >> > > > >> >>> > >> NumFOCUS handles receiving the money and associated > > > admin. As the project you'll be responsible for the setup and > > > ongoing tasks. For NumPy and SciPy I have done those tasks. It's a > > > fairly minimal amount of work: > > > https://github.com/numpy/numpy/pulls?q=is%3Apr+tidelift+is%3Aclosed > > > . The main one was dealing with GitHub not recognizing our license, > > > and you don't have that issue for Pandas (it's reported correctly > > > as BSD-3 in the UI at https://github.com/pandas-dev/pandas). > > > >> >>> > >> > > > >> >>> > >> So it's probably a day of work for one person, to get > > > familiar with the interface, check dependencies, release streams, > > > paste in release notes, etc. And then ongoing maybe one or a couple > > > of hours a month. So far it's been a much more effective way of > > > spending time than, for example, grant writing. > > > >> >>> > >> > > > >> >>> > >>> > > > >> >>> > >>>> > > > >> >>> > >>>> - Advertising and ties to a corporate sponsorship may > > > weaken the brand of pandas; at that point we may lose some > > > creditability as open source volunteers > > > >> >>> > >>> > > > >> >>> > >>> > > > >> >>> > >>> Anecdotally, I don't think that's how the community > > > views Tidelift. My perception (from Twitter, blogs / comments) is > > > that it's been well received. > > > >> >>> > >> > > > >> >>> > >> > > > >> >>> > >> Agree, the feedback I've seen is all quite positive. > > > >> >>> > > > > > >> >>> > > > > > >> >>> > > Additionally, I don't think there is any "advertisement" > > > involved, at least not in the classical sense of adding adds for > > > third-party companies in a side bar to our website for which we get > > > money. Of course we will need to mention Tidelift in some way, e.g. > > > in our sponsors / institutional partners section, but we already do > > > that for some other companies as well (that employ core devs). > > > >> >>> > > > > > >> >>> > >> > > > >> >>> > >> > > > >> >>> > >>> > > > >> >>> > >>>> > > > >> >>> > >>>> - We don?t (AFAIK) have a plan on how to spend or > > > allocate it > > > >> >>> > >>>> > > > >> >>> > >>>> Not totally against it but perhaps the last point > > > above is the main sticking one. Do we have any idea how much we?d > > > actually pocket out of the $ 3k they offer us and subsequently what > > > we would do with it? Cover travel expenses? Support PyData > > > conferences? Scholarships? > > > >> >>> > >>> > > > >> >>> > >>> > > > >> >>> > >>> Agreed that we should set a purpose for this money > > > (though, I have no objection to collecting while we set that > > > dedicated purpose). > > > >> >>> > >> > > > >> >>> > >> > > > >> >>> > > Indeed we need to discuss this, but I don't think we > > > already need to know *exactly* what we want to do with it before > > > setting up a contract with Tidelift. It's good for me to alraedy > > > start discussing it now, but maybe in a separate thread? > > > >> >>> > > > > > >> >>> > >> > > > >> >>> > >> For NumPy and SciPy we haven't earmarked the funds yet. > > > It's nice to build up a buffer first. One thing I'm thinking of is > > > that we're participating in Google Season of Docs, and are getting > > > more high quality applicants than Google will accept. So we could > > > pay one or two tech writers from the funds. Our website and high > > > level docs (tutorial, restructuring of all docs to guide users > > > better) sure could use it:) > > > >> >>> > >> > > > >> >>> > >> My abstract advice would be: pay for things that > > > require money (like a dev meeting) or don't get done for free. > > > Don't pay for writing code unless the case is extremely compelling, > > > because that'll be a drop in the bucket. > > > >> >>> > >> > > > >> >>> > >> Cheers, > > > >> >>> > >> Ralf > > > >> >>> > >> > > > >> >>> > >> > > > >> >>> > >>> > > > >> >>> > >>>> > > > >> >>> > >>>> - Will > > > >> >>> > >>>> > > > >> >>> > >>>> On Jun 11, 2019, at 4:44 AM, Ralf Gommers < > > > ralf.gommers at gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> >>> > >>>> > > > >> >>> > >>>> > > > >> >>> > >>>> > > > >> >>> > >>>> On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 10:15 AM Joris Van den > > > Bossche wrote: > > > >> >>> > >>>>> > > > >> >>> > >>>>> The current page about pandas ( > > > https://tidelift.com/lifter/search/pypi/pandas) mentions $3,000 > > > dollar a month (but I am not fully sure this is what is already > > > available from their current subscribers, or if it is a prospect). > > > >> >>> > >>>> > > > >> >>> > >>>> > > > >> >>> > >>>> It's not just a prospect, that's what you should/will > > > get. NumPy and SciPy get the listed amounts too. > > > >> >>> > >>>> > > > >> >>> > >>>> Agreed that the NumPy amount is not that much. The > > > amount gets determined automatically; it's some combination of > > > customer interest, dependency analysis and size of the API surface. > > > >> >>> > >>>> > > > >> >>> > >>>> The current amounts are: > > > >> >>> > >>>> NumPy: $1000 > > > >> >>> > >>>> SciPy: $2500 > > > >> >>> > >>>> Pandas: $3000 > > > >> >>> > >>>> Matplotlib: n.a. > > > >> >>> > >>>> Scikit-learn: $1500 > > > >> >>> > >>>> Scikit-image: $50 > > > >> >>> > >>>> Statsmodels: $50 > > > >> >>> > >>>> > > > >> >>> > >>>> So there's an element of randomness, but the results > > > are not completely surprising I think. The four libraries that get > > > order thousands of dollars are the ones that large corporations are > > > going to have the highest interest in. > > > >> >>> > >>>> > > > >> >>> > >>>> Cheers, > > > >> >>> > >>>> Ralf > > > >> >>> > >>>> > > > >> >>> > >>>>> > > > >> >>> > >>>>> > > > >> >>> > >>>>> Op za 8 jun. 2019 om 22:54 schreef William Ayd < > > > william.ayd at icloud.com>: > > > >> >>> > >>>>>> > > > >> >>> > >>>>>> What is the minimum amount we are asking for? The > > > $1,000 a month for NumPy seems rather low and I thought previous > > > emails had something in the range of $3k a month. > > > >> >>> > >>>>>> > > > >> >>> > >>>>>> I don?t think we necessarily need or would be that > > > much improved by $12k per year so would rather aim higher if we are > > > going to do this > > > >> >>> > >>>>>> > > > >> >>> > >>>>>> On Jun 7, 2019, at 12:53 PM, Joris Van den Bossche > > > wrote: > > > >> >>> > >>>>>> > > > >> >>> > >>>>>> Hi all, > > > >> >>> > >>>>>> > > > >> >>> > >>>>>> We discussed this on the last dev chat, but putting > > > it on the mailing list for those who were not present: we are > > > planning to contact Tidelift to enter into a sponsor agreement for > > > Pandas. > > > >> >>> > >>>>>> > > > >> >>> > >>>>>> The idea is to follow what NumPy (and recently also > > > Scipy) did to have an agreement between Tidelift and NumFOCUS > > > instead of an individual maintainer (see their announcement mail: > > > > https://mail.python.org/pipermail/numpy-discussion/2019-April/079370.html > > > ). > > > >> >>> > >>>>>> Blog with overview about Tidelift: > > > > https://blog.tidelift.com/how-to-start-earning-money-for-your-open-source-project-with-tidelift > > > . > > > >> >>> > >>>>>> > > > >> >>> > >>>>>> We didn't discuss yet what to do specifically with > > > those funds, that should still be discussed in the future. > > > >> >>> > >>>>>> > > > >> >>> > >>>>>> Cheers, > > > >> >>> > >>>>>> Joris > > > >> >>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > > > >> >>> > >>>>>> Pandas-dev mailing list > > > >> >>> > >>>>>> Pandas-dev at python.org > > > >> >>> > >>>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > > > >> >>> > >>>>>> > > > >> >>> > >>>>>> > > > >> >>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > > > >> >>> > >>>>> Pandas-dev mailing list > > > >> >>> > >>>>> Pandas-dev at python.org > > > >> >>> > >>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > > > >> >>> > >>>> > > > >> >>> > >>>> > > > >> >>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > > > >> >>> > >>>> Pandas-dev mailing list > > > >> >>> > >>>> Pandas-dev at python.org > > > >> >>> > >>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > > > >> >>> > >> > > > >> >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> >>> > >> Pandas-dev mailing list > > > >> >>> > >> Pandas-dev at python.org > > > >> >>> > >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > > > >> >>> > > > > > >> >>> > > _______________________________________________ > > > >> >>> > > Pandas-dev mailing list > > > >> >>> > > Pandas-dev at python.org > > > >> >>> > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > > > >> >>> _______________________________________________ > > > >> >>> Pandas-dev mailing list > > > >> >>> Pandas-dev at python.org > > > >> >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Pandas-dev mailing list > > > Pandas-dev at python.org > > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pandas-dev mailing list > > Pandas-dev at python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > > _______________________________________________ > Pandas-dev mailing list > Pandas-dev at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From j.wagner1024 at gmail.com Thu Aug 8 13:43:59 2019 From: j.wagner1024 at gmail.com (Joseph Wagner) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 13:43:59 -0400 Subject: [Pandas-dev] Does a maintainer have a moment for an interview? Message-ID: Hi, I?m in the process of conducting interviews with experienced open source project maintainers, and I want to know if you?d be interested in taking 15 minutes to tell us about yourself and your role with pandas. To give you some more context; I?m working with a group of developers within Lambda School to make a product related to repository data analytics and forecasting. If you have any prior experience with repo analysis tools that would be great to talk about as well. If you?re interested in helping us understand these issues better please feel free to let me know when you?re available and we can add that to our schedule. Our team normally uses Zoom for video calls, but if doesn?t work for you let me know and we can make adjustments. Regards, Joseph Wagner -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tom.augspurger88 at gmail.com Fri Aug 9 13:56:24 2019 From: tom.augspurger88 at gmail.com (Tom Augspurger) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2019 12:56:24 -0500 Subject: [Pandas-dev] Pandas Dev Meeting August 14th at 17:00 UTC Message-ID: Hi all, The next pandas dev meeting will be at 17:00 UTC on August 14th. That's 12:00 Central. All are welcome. Hangout: https://meet.google.com/hes-whxw-iau Minutes: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tGbTiYORHiSPgVMXawiweGJlBw5dOkVJLY-licoBmBU/edit?usp=sharing Tom -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From garcia.marc at gmail.com Tue Aug 20 18:06:30 2019 From: garcia.marc at gmail.com (Marc Garcia) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 23:06:30 +0100 Subject: [Pandas-dev] New website infrastructure Message-ID: Somehow related to the work on the new website ( https://github.com/pandas-dev/pandas/pull/28014), I've been discussing with the Binder team, and looks like should be quite easy soon (with a Sphinx extension) to make all the documentation pages runnable with Binder, directly from the website (without opening the page as a Jupyter in mybinder). While they are very happy with the idea of having this is pandas, it's uncertain if the current infrastructure Binder has got, is able to handle all the traffic we would send. And scikit-learn is working on it too (today they added to the dev docs a link to mybinder to run the examples). I'm discussing with OVH (their infrastructure provider) on whether they'd be happy to provide a dedicated BinderHub specific to pandas (or may be we can have one for all NumFOCUS projects). We'll see how it goes, but wanted to let you know, so you're updated, and in case anyone is interested in participating in the discussions. Of course before any decision is made I'll open a discussion here or on GitHub. As part of the discussion I'm also trying to get a server for the website, and one for development stuff. Specfically for the dev docs (including rendered docs of every PR) and the GitHub app that will generate them. I guess it should be very easy to find a sponsor for these two servers (in exchange of a small note in the footer of the website, or something like that). Let me know if you have any comment, want to be involved or whatever. Cheers! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tom.augspurger88 at gmail.com Wed Aug 21 10:55:55 2019 From: tom.augspurger88 at gmail.com (Tom Augspurger) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 09:55:55 -0500 Subject: [Pandas-dev] New website infrastructure In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That all sounds good. I'm happy to hear that you're coordinating with the binder team on this. > Specfically for the dev docs (including rendered docs of every PR) If those were uploaded somewhere, I suspect we could send some kind of web hook notification and pull it down to our pandas.pydata.org web server. I do this now with the ASVs ( https://github.com/asv-runner/asv-watcher and a free Heroku app). This would be a bit more complicated since it's one per PR, but I think we could dump the HTML in the nginx directory and serve one per PR (with a cron job cleaning up). So if those talks stall, that may be an option. Tom On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 5:06 PM Marc Garcia wrote: > Somehow related to the work on the new website ( > https://github.com/pandas-dev/pandas/pull/28014), I've been discussing > with the Binder team, and looks like should be quite easy soon (with a > Sphinx extension) to make all the documentation pages runnable with Binder, > directly from the website (without opening the page as a Jupyter in > mybinder). > > While they are very happy with the idea of having this is pandas, it's > uncertain if the current infrastructure Binder has got, is able to handle > all the traffic we would send. And scikit-learn is working on it too (today > they added to the dev docs a link to mybinder to run the examples). > > I'm discussing with OVH (their infrastructure provider) on whether they'd > be happy to provide a dedicated BinderHub specific to pandas (or may be we > can have one for all NumFOCUS projects). We'll see how it goes, but wanted > to let you know, so you're updated, and in case anyone is interested in > participating in the discussions. Of course before any decision is made > I'll open a discussion here or on GitHub. > > As part of the discussion I'm also trying to get a server for the website, > and one for development stuff. Specfically for the dev docs (including > rendered docs of every PR) and the GitHub app that will generate them. I > guess it should be very easy to find a sponsor for these two servers (in > exchange of a small note in the footer of the website, or something like > that). > > Let me know if you have any comment, want to be involved or whatever. > > Cheers! > _______________________________________________ > Pandas-dev mailing list > Pandas-dev at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From garcia.marc at gmail.com Wed Aug 21 11:05:36 2019 From: garcia.marc at gmail.com (Marc Garcia) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 16:05:36 +0100 Subject: [Pandas-dev] New website infrastructure In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: I need to do more research on having the docs built per PR, but my initial idea is to get them built in the CI (we already do this), publish the rendered html as an artifact, send a web hook as you say (not sure if from github or from azure directly), and then have a small app that downloads the artifact and unzips it in the server. Then another webhook when a PR is closed or merged to delete them (and also a cron job to delete all stuff after couple of weeks or something). I also started working on a GitHub app that parses the logs from the CI, and publishes a comment like pep8speaks does when the CI fails, but for anything that went wrong. Would like to integrate that with the docs publishing, and add a link in the comment to the PR docs (only for PRs that change the docs probably). Will keep you updated once I have progress, I need to experiment a bit more before I know what exactly can be done. On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 3:55 PM Tom Augspurger wrote: > That all sounds good. I'm happy to hear that you're coordinating with the > binder team on this. > > > Specfically for the dev docs (including rendered docs of every PR) > > If those were uploaded somewhere, I suspect we could send some kind of web > hook notification and pull it > down to our pandas.pydata.org web server. I do this now with the ASVs ( > https://github.com/asv-runner/asv-watcher > and a free Heroku app). This would be a bit more complicated since it's > one per PR, but I think we could > dump the HTML in the nginx directory and serve one per PR (with a cron job > cleaning up). So if those talks > stall, that may be an option. > > Tom > > > On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 5:06 PM Marc Garcia wrote: > >> Somehow related to the work on the new website ( >> https://github.com/pandas-dev/pandas/pull/28014), I've been discussing >> with the Binder team, and looks like should be quite easy soon (with a >> Sphinx extension) to make all the documentation pages runnable with Binder, >> directly from the website (without opening the page as a Jupyter in >> mybinder). >> >> While they are very happy with the idea of having this is pandas, it's >> uncertain if the current infrastructure Binder has got, is able to handle >> all the traffic we would send. And scikit-learn is working on it too (today >> they added to the dev docs a link to mybinder to run the examples). >> >> I'm discussing with OVH (their infrastructure provider) on whether they'd >> be happy to provide a dedicated BinderHub specific to pandas (or may be we >> can have one for all NumFOCUS projects). We'll see how it goes, but wanted >> to let you know, so you're updated, and in case anyone is interested in >> participating in the discussions. Of course before any decision is made >> I'll open a discussion here or on GitHub. >> >> As part of the discussion I'm also trying to get a server for the >> website, and one for development stuff. Specfically for the dev docs >> (including rendered docs of every PR) and the GitHub app that will generate >> them. I guess it should be very easy to find a sponsor for these two >> servers (in exchange of a small note in the footer of the website, or >> something like that). >> >> Let me know if you have any comment, want to be involved or whatever. >> >> Cheers! >> _______________________________________________ >> Pandas-dev mailing list >> Pandas-dev at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mail at stevesimmons.com Wed Aug 21 18:42:45 2019 From: mail at stevesimmons.com (Stephen Simmons) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 23:42:45 +0100 Subject: [Pandas-dev] New website infrastructure In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <721bba51-41dc-0c9b-a694-21708c28f375@stevesimmons.com> Marc, What is the cost of the servers? My company may be able to cover that. Thanks Stephen Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 23:06:30 +0100 From: Marc Garcia To: pandas-dev Subject: [Pandas-dev] New website infrastructure Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Somehow related to the work on the new website ( https://github.com/pandas-dev/pandas/pull/28014), I've been discussing with the Binder team, and looks like should be quite easy soon (with a Sphinx extension) to make all the documentation pages runnable with Binder, directly from the website (without opening the page as a Jupyter in mybinder). While they are very happy with the idea of having this is pandas, it's uncertain if the current infrastructure Binder has got, is able to handle all the traffic we would send. And scikit-learn is working on it too (today they added to the dev docs a link to mybinder to run the examples). I'm discussing with OVH (their infrastructure provider) on whether they'd be happy to provide a dedicated BinderHub specific to pandas (or may be we can have one for all NumFOCUS projects). We'll see how it goes, but wanted to let you know, so you're updated, and in case anyone is interested in participating in the discussions. Of course before any decision is made I'll open a discussion here or on GitHub. As part of the discussion I'm also trying to get a server for the website, and one for development stuff. Specfically for the dev docs (including rendered docs of every PR) and the GitHub app that will generate them. I guess it should be very easy to find a sponsor for these two servers (in exchange of a small note in the footer of the website, or something like that). Let me know if you have any comment, want to be involved or whatever. Cheers! From garcia.marc at gmail.com Thu Aug 22 09:46:03 2019 From: garcia.marc at gmail.com (Marc Garcia) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 14:46:03 +0100 Subject: [Pandas-dev] New website infrastructure In-Reply-To: <721bba51-41dc-0c9b-a694-21708c28f375@stevesimmons.com> References: <721bba51-41dc-0c9b-a694-21708c28f375@stevesimmons.com> Message-ID: Thank you for that Stephen. I still don't have very accurate numbers, I'm researching on it. But my guess is that the hosting and infrastructure of pandas will be in the order of $500 per year, and the infrastructure for Binder could be something like $1,000 per month. I'll keep you updated. On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 11:42 PM Stephen Simmons wrote: > Marc, > > What is the cost of the servers? My company may be able to cover that. > > Thanks > > Stephen > > > > Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 23:06:30 +0100 > > From: Marc Garcia > To: pandas-dev > Subject: [Pandas-dev] New website infrastructure > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Somehow related to the work on the new website ( > https://github.com/pandas-dev/pandas/pull/28014), I've been discussing > with > the Binder team, and looks like should be quite easy soon (with a Sphinx > extension) to make all the documentation pages runnable with Binder, > directly from the website (without opening the page as a Jupyter in > mybinder). > > While they are very happy with the idea of having this is pandas, it's > uncertain if the current infrastructure Binder has got, is able to handle > all the traffic we would send. And scikit-learn is working on it too (today > they added to the dev docs a link to mybinder to run the examples). > > I'm discussing with OVH (their infrastructure provider) on whether they'd > be happy to provide a dedicated BinderHub specific to pandas (or may be we > can have one for all NumFOCUS projects). We'll see how it goes, but wanted > to let you know, so you're updated, and in case anyone is interested in > participating in the discussions. Of course before any decision is made > I'll open a discussion here or on GitHub. > > As part of the discussion I'm also trying to get a server for the website, > and one for development stuff. Specfically for the dev docs (including > rendered docs of every PR) and the GitHub app that will generate them. I > guess it should be very easy to find a sponsor for these two servers (in > exchange of a small note in the footer of the website, or something like > that). > > Let me know if you have any comment, want to be involved or whatever. > > Cheers! > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tom.augspurger88 at gmail.com Thu Aug 22 15:23:11 2019 From: tom.augspurger88 at gmail.com (Tom Augspurger) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 14:23:11 -0500 Subject: [Pandas-dev] ANN: Pandas 0.25.1 Released! Message-ID: Hi all, I'm pleased to announce the release of pandas 0.25.1. This is a minor bug-fix release in the 0.25.x series and includes some regression fixes and bug fixes. We recommend that all users upgrade to this version. See the full whatsnew for a list of all the changes. The release can be installed with conda from the defaults and conda-forge channels: conda install pandas Or via PyPI: python -m pip install --upgrade pandas -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: