[Pandas-dev] DyND and pandas [was Rewriting some of internals of pandas in C/C++? / Roadmap]

[Irwin Zaid]

> This discussion doesn't belong on this mailing list, but a couple of
> brief points.
>

Wes, if you don't want this discussion on this mailing list then don't say
things like: "it still feels like a political quagmirie leftover from the
Continuum-Enthought rift in 2011". My email reply to that was simply a
statement of facts, as this one will also be.

I was approached by Travis and Peter about being a part of Continuum
> Analytics in late 2011. According to my e-mail records we were having
> these discussions at least as early as October 2011. The phrase "NumPy
> 2.0" was spoken in this epoch (referring to
> -the-project-now-known-as-DyND). So, I have quite a bit of first- and
> second-hand information from this time period, including many of the
> details of Mark's Enthought-sponsored NumPy development and the
> problems that occurred online and offline.
>

The phrase "NumPy 2.0" means a number of things, and DyND was not one of
them. Yes, you have some first-hand knowledge,
but it's not relevant. Even IF it was, a lot of modern DyND also came from
my massive contribution before I joined Continuum.

Mark will speak up here as well.


> I applaud Continuum for using R&D budget to build something new and
> forward thinking that is also permissively licensed open source
> software. However, it is well known that open source projects driven
> by for-profit organizations can run into governance problems that
> place them in conflict with the community. Since DyND is a large
> project that I would not be comfortable forking (if that were required
> in the future), building an outside developer and user community is
> essential if pandas is to consider using it as a hard dependency in
> the future.
>
> The Apache Software Foundation exists for this reason and others, and
> if you wish to place a community-oriented and merit-based governance
> structure around DyND to assist with its incubation, the ASF may be
> worth pursuing. NumFOCUS provides a fiscal sponsorship apparatus but
> does not really address the governance questions. Whether or not the
> governance issues are real doesn't really matter; it's about setting
> people's minds at ease.
>

Okay, let me state again: The majority of DyND's contributions (as net from
Mark, myself, and Ian) came without Continuum funding. Just because
Continuum is funding DyND now does not make it a "Continuum project",
whatever this means.

Some of your other points are valid, and we'll address them as best we can
as time goes on. DyND clearly needs a community, but it's a chicken-and-egg
problem. If you try and build something hard, it takes time and users come
when things work.

The issue of refactoring Pandas is a different one that I'll add comments
to in another email.

Irwin
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