[moin-user] MoinMoin issue

[Paul Boddie]

On Monday 3. September 2018 09.33.08 Mehma Sarja wrote:
> Reinstalled freebsd and now I cannot get moin installed. Complicated crap.
> Sorry to say this. Command after nauseating command to get it going.
> 
> I'm going to tazwikiss. Quick install and it just works. I have to
> configure https though.

I am sorry you seem to be experiencing problems, and I might agree that things 
might be clearer in the documentation, but I now invite you to see things from 
another perspective.

In your first message, you mentioned problems with the "standalone" Moin wiki 
server on OpenBSD. I don't use this configuration of Moin and I have never 
used OpenBSD, and I (for one) also wasn't really reading mail when you sent 
the message. Maybe seeking some help from the OpenBSD package maintainer 
and/or community would have been useful.

Two days later, you described your attempt to use the system Web server to 
serve Moin under the mysterious title of "Uncle". Copying the wikiconfig.py 
file into the Web document root isn't likely to do anything desirable, and 
here the documentation could have helped you.

Eventually, you note that "moin is strike two", presumably meaning that the 
solution is not meeting your expectations. Here, I might note that the 
developers of the software have some basic expectations, too, and that the way 
to get problems solved is to be constructive, not to pass some punitive 
verdict which might be seen as a cynical way to shame them into 
troubleshooting your system.

Indeed, you then note that you are changing your hardware, running yet another 
operating system distribution, and telling everyone that you will run 
something else. Only then, in a later message, a week after your first, you're 
running FreeBSD and the "standalone" version of Moin again.

And a day later, presumably through frustration, you seem to have returned to 
using dubious motivational techniques to try and shame the developers again, 
disputing various characteristics of the software:

> Ya know funny how every wiki engine out there says they are mature and
> popular and been around for years. However no one gets past a simple http
> and many of them can't even get you to http when it comes to documentation.

I do actually agree with one aspect of your response to Lars:

> Users just want the thing to work.

But I don't agree with this:

> This configuration is in the hands of geeks who think about over and
> creative tricks are cool.

Nor do I agree with your follow-up six hours later which is quoted at the top 
of this message. Regardless of the frustration that you and others may have in 
configuring this software, I get the impression that it would be frustrating 
to help you, partly because you seem to employ the threat of switching to 
something else at every opportunity in order to "motivate" people into helping 
you.

When looking for support and advice, especially here where not everybody is 
familiar with every operating system on the planet, I would suggest choosing a 
system that other people have familiarity with, sticking with it, and being 
clear about what you have done and what difficulties you have encountered. 
Then, people might be more willing to offer advice.

But if you do not show respect for the work people have done, then I can well 
imagine that they will just ignore your messages and expect that you will make 
good on your threats and go away. Here, I am reminded of an article I 
encountered recently:

https://carlchenet.com/foss-passive-consumerism-kills-our-community/

Please note that I am not even a core developer of MoinMoin, just an 
occasional contributor. I might be dissatisfied with some aspects of the 
software, but I try to improve it in a fairly constructive way. I am under no 
illusion that the developers of this software owe me anything. If I expected 
them to do things for me, I would pay them to get those things done.

I hope this helps you or someone else to understand how people may interact in 
a reasonable way for their mutual benefit.

Paul