From mehmasarja at gmail.com Sat Sep 1 12:23:43 2018 From: mehmasarja at gmail.com (Mehma Sarja) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2018 09:23:43 -0700 Subject: [moin-user] MoinMoin issue In-Reply-To: <2c344c3a-2cdc-a1c9-8b90-e305da0b40c8@VybeNetworks.com> References:

<2c344c3a-2cdc-a1c9-8b90-e305da0b40c8@VybeNetworks.com> Message-ID: Made some progress yesterday. Got https working on lighttpd. So moin works by itself using its built in web server. I've also managed to get it working behind apache2. Apache as https is complicated. Next up is getting moin working with https. BTW, I'm documenting my steps and will share once it's setup. Ya know funny how every wiki engine out there says they are mature and popular and been around for years. However no one gets past a simple http and many of them can't even get you to http when it comes to documentation. Yudhvir On Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 8:32 AM D'Arcy Cain wrote: > On 2018-08-31 11:07 AM, Mehma Sarja wrote: > > Samit, > > > > It's just the two if us on this list it seems. > > Make that three. > > > Can you share your setup and config files to get ssl working? > > Ditto. I am trying to get it working on NetBSD and there doesn't seem > to be any HowTos for that and I also can't find low end documentation > that simply describes whatever files and directories are needed and a > man page for the configs. > > -- > D'Arcy J.M. Cain > Vybe Networks Inc. > http://www.VybeNetworks.com/ > IM:darcy at Vex.Net VoIP: sip:darcy at VybeNetworks.com > _______________________________________________ > moin-user mailing list > moin-user at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/moin-user > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mscottreynolds at gmail.com Sat Sep 1 15:00:10 2018 From: mscottreynolds at gmail.com (M. Scott Reynolds) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2018 13:00:10 -0600 Subject: [moin-user] MoinMoin issue In-Reply-To: References:

<2c344c3a-2cdc-a1c9-8b90-e305da0b40c8@VybeNetworks.com> Message-ID: I have MoinMoin running under apache2 with https. I use https://letsencrypt.org/ for my certificates. It also has scripts for configuring apache for you. Scott R. On Sat, Sep 1, 2018 at 10:24 AM Mehma Sarja wrote: > Made some progress yesterday. Got https working on lighttpd. So moin works > by itself using its built in web server. I've also managed to get it > working behind apache2. Apache as https is complicated. > > Next up is getting moin working with https. BTW, I'm documenting my steps > and will share once it's setup. Ya know funny how every wiki engine out > there says they are mature and popular and been around for years. However > no one gets past a simple http and many of them can't even get you to http > when it comes to documentation. > > Yudhvir > > > > On Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 8:32 AM D'Arcy Cain wrote: > >> On 2018-08-31 11:07 AM, Mehma Sarja wrote: >> > Samit, >> > >> > It's just the two if us on this list it seems. >> >> Make that three. >> >> > Can you share your setup and config files to get ssl working? >> >> Ditto. I am trying to get it working on NetBSD and there doesn't seem >> to be any HowTos for that and I also can't find low end documentation >> that simply describes whatever files and directories are needed and a >> man page for the configs. >> >> -- >> D'Arcy J.M. Cain >> Vybe Networks Inc. >> http://www.VybeNetworks.com/ >> IM:darcy at Vex.Net VoIP: sip:darcy at VybeNetworks.com >> _______________________________________________ >> moin-user mailing list >> moin-user at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/moin-user >> > _______________________________________________ > moin-user mailing list > moin-user at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/moin-user > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mehmasarja at gmail.com Sat Sep 1 15:11:35 2018 From: mehmasarja at gmail.com (Mehma Sarja) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2018 12:11:35 -0700 Subject: [moin-user] MoinMoin issue In-Reply-To: References:

<2c344c3a-2cdc-a1c9-8b90-e305da0b40c8@VybeNetworks.com> Message-ID: Thanks Scott, If you can, please share the config files. My application is a home server. I keep all my account info there. It's like a password manager and tracks my automobile maintenance and a dozen other things. I don't access it outside of my LAN. I read up on lets encrypt and it seems like they require a domain name. Do we need a domain name or can we use "home" or a 193.168.xx.xx up address? I think we can do a self-signed CA for home use. This is not required because your browser is going to complain and let you through. Yudhvir --- On Sat, Sep 1, 2018, 12:00 PM M. Scott Reynolds wrote: > I have MoinMoin running under apache2 with https. I use > https://letsencrypt.org/ for my certificates. It also has scripts for > configuring apache for you. > > Scott R. > > On Sat, Sep 1, 2018 at 10:24 AM Mehma Sarja wrote: > >> Made some progress yesterday. Got https working on lighttpd. So moin >> works by itself using its built in web server. I've also managed to get it >> working behind apache2. Apache as https is complicated. >> >> Next up is getting moin working with https. BTW, I'm documenting my steps >> and will share once it's setup. Ya know funny how every wiki engine out >> there says they are mature and popular and been around for years. However >> no one gets past a simple http and many of them can't even get you to http >> when it comes to documentation. >> >> Yudhvir >> >> >> >> On Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 8:32 AM D'Arcy Cain wrote: >> >>> On 2018-08-31 11:07 AM, Mehma Sarja wrote: >>> > Samit, >>> > >>> > It's just the two if us on this list it seems. >>> >>> Make that three. >>> >>> > Can you share your setup and config files to get ssl working? >>> >>> Ditto. I am trying to get it working on NetBSD and there doesn't seem >>> to be any HowTos for that and I also can't find low end documentation >>> that simply describes whatever files and directories are needed and a >>> man page for the configs. >>> >>> -- >>> D'Arcy J.M. Cain >>> Vybe Networks Inc. >>> http://www.VybeNetworks.com/ >>> IM:darcy at Vex.Net VoIP: sip:darcy at VybeNetworks.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> moin-user mailing list >>> moin-user at python.org >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/moin-user >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> moin-user mailing list >> moin-user at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/moin-user >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mscottreynolds at gmail.com Sat Sep 1 15:24:22 2018 From: mscottreynolds at gmail.com (M. Scott Reynolds) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2018 13:24:22 -0600 Subject: [moin-user] MoinMoin issue In-Reply-To: References:

<2c344c3a-2cdc-a1c9-8b90-e305da0b40c8@VybeNetworks.com>

Message-ID: Yea, I think you need a publicly accessible site for letsencrypt to work as their server makes calls to yours to verify you own the site. This is how my ssl.conf file is configured: Listen 443 https SSLPassPhraseDialog exec:/usr/libexec/httpd-ssl-pass-dialog SSLSessionCache shmcb:/run/httpd/sslcache(512000) SSLSessionCacheTimeout 300 SSLRandomSeed startup file:/dev/urandom 256 SSLRandomSeed connect builtin SSLCryptoDevice builtin ErrorLog logs/ssl_error_log TransferLog logs/ssl_access_log LogLevel warn SSLEngine on SSLProtocol all -SSLv3 SSLProxyProtocol all -SSLv3 SSLHonorCipherOrder on SSLCertificateFile /etc/pki/tls/certs/localhost.crt SSLCertificateKeyFile /etc/pki/tls/private/localhost.key SSLOptions +StdEnvVars SSLOptions +StdEnvVars BrowserMatch "MSIE [2-5]" \ nokeepalive ssl-unclean-shutdown \ downgrade-1.0 force-response-1.0 CustomLog logs/ssl_request_log \ "%t %h %{SSL_PROTOCOL}x %{SSL_CIPHER}x \"%r\" %b" It lives in the /etc/httpd/conf.d/ directory. The host is Amazon Linux (Amazon Web Services) which is a derivative of CentOS 6. Scott R. On Sat, Sep 1, 2018 at 1:11 PM Mehma Sarja wrote: > Thanks Scott, > > If you can, please share the config files. My application is a home > server. I keep all my account info there. It's like a password manager and > tracks my automobile maintenance and a dozen other things. I don't access > it outside of my LAN. > > I read up on lets encrypt and it seems like they require a domain name. Do > we need a domain name or can we use "home" or a 193.168.xx.xx up address? > > I think we can do a self-signed CA for home use. This is not required > because your browser is going to complain and let you through. > > Yudhvir > --- > On Sat, Sep 1, 2018, 12:00 PM M. Scott Reynolds > wrote: > >> I have MoinMoin running under apache2 with https. I use >> https://letsencrypt.org/ for my certificates. It also has scripts for >> configuring apache for you. >> >> Scott R. >> >> On Sat, Sep 1, 2018 at 10:24 AM Mehma Sarja wrote: >> >>> Made some progress yesterday. Got https working on lighttpd. So moin >>> works by itself using its built in web server. I've also managed to get it >>> working behind apache2. Apache as https is complicated. >>> >>> Next up is getting moin working with https. BTW, I'm documenting my >>> steps and will share once it's setup. Ya know funny how every wiki engine >>> out there says they are mature and popular and been around for years. >>> However no one gets past a simple http and many of them can't even get you >>> to http when it comes to documentation. >>> >>> Yudhvir >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 8:32 AM D'Arcy Cain >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On 2018-08-31 11:07 AM, Mehma Sarja wrote: >>>> > Samit, >>>> > >>>> > It's just the two if us on this list it seems. >>>> >>>> Make that three. >>>> >>>> > Can you share your setup and config files to get ssl working? >>>> >>>> Ditto. I am trying to get it working on NetBSD and there doesn't seem >>>> to be any HowTos for that and I also can't find low end documentation >>>> that simply describes whatever files and directories are needed and a >>>> man page for the configs. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> D'Arcy J.M. Cain >>>> Vybe Networks Inc. >>>> http://www.VybeNetworks.com/ >>>> IM:darcy at Vex.Net VoIP: sip:darcy at VybeNetworks.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> moin-user mailing list >>>> moin-user at python.org >>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/moin-user >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> moin-user mailing list >>> moin-user at python.org >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/moin-user >>> >> _______________________________________________ > moin-user mailing list > moin-user at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/moin-user > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mscottreynolds at gmail.com Sat Sep 1 15:34:50 2018 From: mscottreynolds at gmail.com (M. Scott Reynolds) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2018 13:34:50 -0600 Subject: [moin-user] MoinMoin issue In-Reply-To: References:

<2c344c3a-2cdc-a1c9-8b90-e305da0b40c8@VybeNetworks.com>

Message-ID: p.s. A self-signed cert should be just fine instead of using a cert from letsencrypt for private home use. On Sat, Sep 1, 2018 at 1:24 PM M. Scott Reynolds wrote: > Yea, I think you need a publicly accessible site for letsencrypt to work > as their server makes calls to yours to verify you own the site. > > This is how my ssl.conf file is configured: > > Listen 443 https > SSLPassPhraseDialog exec:/usr/libexec/httpd-ssl-pass-dialog > SSLSessionCache shmcb:/run/httpd/sslcache(512000) > SSLSessionCacheTimeout 300 > SSLRandomSeed startup file:/dev/urandom 256 > SSLRandomSeed connect builtin > SSLCryptoDevice builtin > > > ErrorLog logs/ssl_error_log > TransferLog logs/ssl_access_log > LogLevel warn > SSLEngine on > SSLProtocol all -SSLv3 > SSLProxyProtocol all -SSLv3 > SSLHonorCipherOrder on > SSLCertificateFile /etc/pki/tls/certs/localhost.crt > SSLCertificateKeyFile /etc/pki/tls/private/localhost.key > > SSLOptions +StdEnvVars > > > SSLOptions +StdEnvVars > > BrowserMatch "MSIE [2-5]" \ > nokeepalive ssl-unclean-shutdown \ > downgrade-1.0 force-response-1.0 > > CustomLog logs/ssl_request_log \ > "%t %h %{SSL_PROTOCOL}x %{SSL_CIPHER}x \"%r\" %b" > > > > It lives in the /etc/httpd/conf.d/ directory. The host is Amazon Linux > (Amazon Web Services) which is a derivative of CentOS 6. > > Scott R. > > > On Sat, Sep 1, 2018 at 1:11 PM Mehma Sarja wrote: > >> Thanks Scott, >> >> If you can, please share the config files. My application is a home >> server. I keep all my account info there. It's like a password manager and >> tracks my automobile maintenance and a dozen other things. I don't access >> it outside of my LAN. >> >> I read up on lets encrypt and it seems like they require a domain name. >> Do we need a domain name or can we use "home" or a 193.168.xx.xx up address? >> >> I think we can do a self-signed CA for home use. This is not required >> because your browser is going to complain and let you through. >> >> Yudhvir >> --- >> On Sat, Sep 1, 2018, 12:00 PM M. Scott Reynolds >> wrote: >> >>> I have MoinMoin running under apache2 with https. I use >>> https://letsencrypt.org/ for my certificates. It also has scripts for >>> configuring apache for you. >>> >>> Scott R. >>> >>> On Sat, Sep 1, 2018 at 10:24 AM Mehma Sarja >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Made some progress yesterday. Got https working on lighttpd. So moin >>>> works by itself using its built in web server. I've also managed to get it >>>> working behind apache2. Apache as https is complicated. >>>> >>>> Next up is getting moin working with https. BTW, I'm documenting my >>>> steps and will share once it's setup. Ya know funny how every wiki engine >>>> out there says they are mature and popular and been around for years. >>>> However no one gets past a simple http and many of them can't even get you >>>> to http when it comes to documentation. >>>> >>>> Yudhvir >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 8:32 AM D'Arcy Cain >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 2018-08-31 11:07 AM, Mehma Sarja wrote: >>>>> > Samit, >>>>> > >>>>> > It's just the two if us on this list it seems. >>>>> >>>>> Make that three. >>>>> >>>>> > Can you share your setup and config files to get ssl working? >>>>> >>>>> Ditto. I am trying to get it working on NetBSD and there doesn't seem >>>>> to be any HowTos for that and I also can't find low end documentation >>>>> that simply describes whatever files and directories are needed and a >>>>> man page for the configs. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> D'Arcy J.M. Cain >>>>> Vybe Networks Inc. >>>>> http://www.VybeNetworks.com/ >>>>> IM:darcy at Vex.Net VoIP: sip:darcy at VybeNetworks.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> moin-user mailing list >>>>> moin-user at python.org >>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/moin-user >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> moin-user mailing list >>>> moin-user at python.org >>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/moin-user >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> moin-user mailing list >> moin-user at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/moin-user >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lists at sumpfralle.de Sun Sep 2 20:49:56 2018 From: lists at sumpfralle.de (Lars Kruse) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2018 02:49:56 +0200 Subject: [moin-user] MoinMoin issue In-Reply-To: References:

<2c344c3a-2cdc-a1c9-8b90-e305da0b40c8@VybeNetworks.com> Message-ID: <20180903024956.51c66b01@erker.lan> Hello Mehma, Am Sat, 1 Sep 2018 09:23:43 -0700 schrieb Mehma Sarja : > [..] BTW, I'm documenting my steps and will share once it's setup. Ya know > funny how every wiki engine out there says they are mature and popular and > been around for years. However no one gets past a simple http [..] I may misunderstand your requirements, but delivering http content is more or less the only thing I except from any kind of web service. Everything else depends on the specific proxy or webserver that you plan to use. Thus you need to follow the documentation of your webserver for configuring https. Indeed I would be alarmed at first, if the moinmoin documentation contained a detailed description of how to configure https - as this could indicate, that moinmoin requires some exotic and unexpected configuration details based on the delivery method. But maybe I am missing the point and you discussed about something, I misunderstood. Enjoy your moinmoin voyage! Cheers, Lars From mehmasarja at gmail.com Sun Sep 2 21:05:28 2018 From: mehmasarja at gmail.com (Mehma Sarja) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2018 18:05:28 -0700 Subject: [moin-user] MoinMoin issue In-Reply-To: <20180903024956.51c66b01@erker.lan> References:

<2c344c3a-2cdc-a1c9-8b90-e305da0b40c8@VybeNetworks.com> <20180903024956.51c66b01@erker.lan> Message-ID: Hi Lars, I think my use case is unique to put sensitive data on a home server. Which leads to the need for SSL and authentication. Currently Moin supports a bundled webserver and authentication. That's where I get confused. The service is nice and responsive and I don't expect it to do much. I have about 19 static pages with content and am not asking for much performance. When authentication is turned on, thats when performance takes a hit. Waiting 15 seconds for each page is unrealistic. Moin should ONLY enable a webserver for developers and testing. Nothing more. It gives false hope for users and I wasted many hours coming to that conclusion. For a stand-aloner webserver, ssl or tls should be default in front of a wiki now a days. What really throws me off is the documentation treats Auth and SSL as an afterthought. Users google howtos hoping for a straightforward solution. This configuration is in the hands of geeks who think about over and creative tricks are cool. Users just want the thing to work. Why hunt through thr web and change multiple config files to get SSL and with going? Why? Yudhvir On Sun, Sep 2, 2018, 5:50 PM Lars Kruse wrote: > Hello Mehma, > > > Am Sat, 1 Sep 2018 09:23:43 -0700 > schrieb Mehma Sarja : > > > [..] BTW, I'm documenting my steps and will share once it's setup. Ya > know > > funny how every wiki engine out there says they are mature and popular > and > > been around for years. However no one gets past a simple http [..] > > I may misunderstand your requirements, but delivering http content is more > or > less the only thing I except from any kind of web service. Everything else > depends on the specific proxy or webserver that you plan to use. Thus you > need > to follow the documentation of your webserver for configuring https. > > Indeed I would be alarmed at first, if the moinmoin documentation > contained a > detailed description of how to configure https - as this could indicate, > that > moinmoin requires some exotic and unexpected configuration details based on > the delivery method. > > But maybe I am missing the point and you discussed about something, I > misunderstood. > > Enjoy your moinmoin voyage! > > Cheers, > Lars > _______________________________________________ > moin-user mailing list > moin-user at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/moin-user > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mehmasarja at gmail.com Mon Sep 3 03:33:08 2018 From: mehmasarja at gmail.com (Mehma Sarja) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2018 00:33:08 -0700 Subject: [moin-user] MoinMoin issue In-Reply-To: References:

<2c344c3a-2cdc-a1c9-8b90-e305da0b40c8@VybeNetworks.com> <20180903024956.51c66b01@erker.lan> Message-ID: Reinstalled freebsd and now I cannot get moin installed. Complicated crap. Sorry to say this. Command after nauseating command to get it going. I'm going to tazwikiss. Quick install and it just works. I have to configure https though. Yudhvir On Sun, Sep 2, 2018, 6:05 PM Mehma Sarja wrote: > Hi Lars, > > I think my use case is unique to put sensitive data on a home server. > Which leads to the need for SSL and authentication. > > Currently Moin supports a bundled webserver and authentication. That's > where I get confused. The service is nice and responsive and I don't expect > it to do much. I have about 19 static pages with content and am not asking > for much performance. > > When authentication is turned on, thats when performance takes a hit. > Waiting 15 seconds for each page is unrealistic. > > Moin should ONLY enable a webserver for developers and testing. Nothing > more. It gives false hope for users and I wasted many hours coming to that > conclusion. > > For a stand-aloner webserver, ssl or tls should be default in front of a > wiki now a days. > > What really throws me off is the documentation treats Auth and SSL as an > afterthought. Users google howtos hoping for a straightforward solution. > > This configuration is in the hands of geeks who think about over and > creative tricks are cool. Users just want the thing to work. Why hunt > through thr web and change multiple config files to get SSL and with going? > Why? > > Yudhvir > > > On Sun, Sep 2, 2018, 5:50 PM Lars Kruse wrote: > >> Hello Mehma, >> >> >> Am Sat, 1 Sep 2018 09:23:43 -0700 >> schrieb Mehma Sarja : >> >> > [..] BTW, I'm documenting my steps and will share once it's setup. Ya >> know >> > funny how every wiki engine out there says they are mature and popular >> and >> > been around for years. However no one gets past a simple http [..] >> >> I may misunderstand your requirements, but delivering http content is >> more or >> less the only thing I except from any kind of web service. Everything else >> depends on the specific proxy or webserver that you plan to use. Thus you >> need >> to follow the documentation of your webserver for configuring https. >> >> Indeed I would be alarmed at first, if the moinmoin documentation >> contained a >> detailed description of how to configure https - as this could indicate, >> that >> moinmoin requires some exotic and unexpected configuration details based >> on >> the delivery method. >> >> But maybe I am missing the point and you discussed about something, I >> misunderstood. >> >> Enjoy your moinmoin voyage! >> >> Cheers, >> Lars >> _______________________________________________ >> moin-user mailing list >> moin-user at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/moin-user >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul at boddie.org.uk Mon Sep 3 05:12:28 2018 From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2018 11:12:28 +0200 Subject: [moin-user] MoinMoin issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <201809031112.30000.paul@boddie.org.uk> On Monday 3. September 2018 09.33.08 Mehma Sarja wrote: > Reinstalled freebsd and now I cannot get moin installed. Complicated crap. > Sorry to say this. Command after nauseating command to get it going. > > I'm going to tazwikiss. Quick install and it just works. I have to > configure https though. I am sorry you seem to be experiencing problems, and I might agree that things might be clearer in the documentation, but I now invite you to see things from another perspective. In your first message, you mentioned problems with the "standalone" Moin wiki server on OpenBSD. I don't use this configuration of Moin and I have never used OpenBSD, and I (for one) also wasn't really reading mail when you sent the message. Maybe seeking some help from the OpenBSD package maintainer and/or community would have been useful. Two days later, you described your attempt to use the system Web server to serve Moin under the mysterious title of "Uncle". Copying the wikiconfig.py file into the Web document root isn't likely to do anything desirable, and here the documentation could have helped you. Eventually, you note that "moin is strike two", presumably meaning that the solution is not meeting your expectations. Here, I might note that the developers of the software have some basic expectations, too, and that the way to get problems solved is to be constructive, not to pass some punitive verdict which might be seen as a cynical way to shame them into troubleshooting your system. Indeed, you then note that you are changing your hardware, running yet another operating system distribution, and telling everyone that you will run something else. Only then, in a later message, a week after your first, you're running FreeBSD and the "standalone" version of Moin again. And a day later, presumably through frustration, you seem to have returned to using dubious motivational techniques to try and shame the developers again, disputing various characteristics of the software: > Ya know funny how every wiki engine out there says they are mature and > popular and been around for years. However no one gets past a simple http > and many of them can't even get you to http when it comes to documentation. I do actually agree with one aspect of your response to Lars: > Users just want the thing to work. But I don't agree with this: > This configuration is in the hands of geeks who think about over and > creative tricks are cool. Nor do I agree with your follow-up six hours later which is quoted at the top of this message. Regardless of the frustration that you and others may have in configuring this software, I get the impression that it would be frustrating to help you, partly because you seem to employ the threat of switching to something else at every opportunity in order to "motivate" people into helping you. When looking for support and advice, especially here where not everybody is familiar with every operating system on the planet, I would suggest choosing a system that other people have familiarity with, sticking with it, and being clear about what you have done and what difficulties you have encountered. Then, people might be more willing to offer advice. But if you do not show respect for the work people have done, then I can well imagine that they will just ignore your messages and expect that you will make good on your threats and go away. Here, I am reminded of an article I encountered recently: https://carlchenet.com/foss-passive-consumerism-kills-our-community/ Please note that I am not even a core developer of MoinMoin, just an occasional contributor. I might be dissatisfied with some aspects of the software, but I try to improve it in a fairly constructive way. I am under no illusion that the developers of this software owe me anything. If I expected them to do things for me, I would pay them to get those things done. I hope this helps you or someone else to understand how people may interact in a reasonable way for their mutual benefit. Paul From tw at waldmann-edv.de Mon Sep 3 05:19:39 2018 From: tw at waldmann-edv.de (Thomas Waldmann) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2018 11:19:39 +0200 Subject: [moin-user] MoinMoin issue In-Reply-To: References:

<2c344c3a-2cdc-a1c9-8b90-e305da0b40c8@VybeNetworks.com> <20180903024956.51c66b01@erker.lan> Message-ID: > When authentication is turned on, thats when performance takes a hit. > Waiting 15 seconds for each page is unrealistic. There is no additional wait expected due to using an authenticated session (I assume you use the normal web-based login and the cookie session established by that). If one is seeing long wait times no matter what wiki page you are loading, this is usually due to a broken/misconfigured reverse DNS resolving. > Moin should ONLY enable a webserver for developers and testing. ? > For a stand-aloner webserver, ssl or tls should be default in front of a > wiki now a days.? The standalone webserver IS for developers and testing primarily. So why would one need TLS for that? BTW, the state of python 2.x's builtin tls was rather miserable for a long time, not sure if it is advisable these days. But as the builtin server is expected to be used by developers for testing or maybe for "on my local machine, for me only? wikis only, one does not need it anyway. Everybody else (and especially everybody running an internet exposed wiki) is expected to configure apache or nginx and run moin with that. There is documentation about how to configure the web server / the wsgi server by the developers of these components (not moin developers) which you can read. As soon as you have your helloworld.wsgi app running over TLS with apache2/nginx that is where the scope of moin docs start. From mehmasarja at gmail.com Sat Sep 15 01:51:53 2018 From: mehmasarja at gmail.com (Mehma Sarja) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2018 22:51:53 -0700 Subject: [moin-user] How do I ...? Message-ID: Hello Moin users, UPDATE Got MoinMoin installed under FreeBSDon my BeagelBoneBlack. I have kept a simple HTTP setup and without Auth. I'm running the simple Python web server to keep my setup free from complications. By that I mean, the fewer parts there are, the less that can go wrong. As a refresher, I have about a couple of dozen static pages for the home which rarely change. There are 2 people who mostly read the pages. We may have one page edit/change a week - a few bytes. BACKUP As a backup, another Moin wiki has been setup under Raspberry Pi Raspbian - Debian OS. Since the machine works as a Pihole (https://pi-hole.net/), it has Python 2.7 installed. I merely downloaded and extracted Moin 1.9.10 into my home directory. I did NOT install Moin. If I did install it, it would have installed another version of python and might have broken my Pihole application. Which means I don't have access to the "moin" utility since no paths are defined. I do have the executable in the extracted directory. Therefore, I cannot use it. On the plus side, the wiki is up and running using the wikiserver.py utility. Found it with Google's help. To populate the new, PiWiki, I rsync the pages directory contents from BeagleBoneBlack - source wiki, BbbWiki, to the backup PiWiki. NEED HELP The pages load fine, however any changes made to the source wiki do not show up in the backup wiki. I don not have access to the command "moin maint reducewiki" I should be clearer, the revision files do get copied, however, I do not see them when I open the page in the wiki. Anyway that can be Gerry rigged? Yes, I tired setting up "sync" but could not figure it out. That would be ideal. If someone can nudge me towards setting that up, I'd sure appreciate it. Yudhvir -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mehmasarja at gmail.com Sat Sep 15 14:52:06 2018 From: mehmasarja at gmail.com (Mehma Sarja) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2018 11:52:06 -0700 Subject: [moin-user] How do I ...? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: PROBLEM FIXED Just had to rsync ..../data/edit-log and ..../data/event-log files along with the pages files. Now, any changes I make to the source wiki show up at the backup wiki. RSYNC CODE rsync -r /usr/local/share/moin/data/pages/ pi at 192.168.1.5: /home/pi/moin/moin-1.9.10/wiki/data/pages/ rsync /usr/local/share/moin/data/edit-log pi at 192.168.1.5: /home/pi/moin/moin-1.9.10/wiki/data/ rsync /usr/local/share/moin/data/event-log pi at 192.168.1.5: /home/pi/moin/moin-1.9.10/wiki/data/ EXPLANATION My source wiki pushes the changes via rsync to the backup wiki (192.168.1.5). I intend to put this in cron to run once every 5 minutes. EDIT CONFLICTS I understand any edits that happen on the _backup_ wiki show up temporarily until the rsync runs. Then they show up as edit conflicts. I'll be looking at this later - although making changes to backup is not something we will be doing intentionally. I have my 80% backup solution. My intention is to have a wiki running in case one of the install breaks. With the way software, Python etc, is updated, it tends to break parts of a service. FUTURE PROJECT Put the backup on a stand-alone machine so i can rsync the data and configuration files. This will make creating a broken backup or broken source machine trivial. Yudhvir On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 10:51 PM Mehma Sarja wrote: > Hello Moin users, > > UPDATE > Got MoinMoin installed under FreeBSDon my BeagelBoneBlack. I have kept a > simple HTTP setup and without Auth. I'm running the simple Python web > server to keep my setup free from complications. By that I mean, the fewer > parts there are, the less that can go wrong. As a refresher, I have about a > couple of dozen static pages for the home which rarely change. There are 2 > people who mostly read the pages. We may have one page edit/change a week - > a few bytes. > > BACKUP > As a backup, another Moin wiki has been setup under Raspberry Pi Raspbian > - Debian OS. Since the machine works as a Pihole (https://pi-hole.net/), > it has Python 2.7 installed. I merely downloaded and extracted Moin 1.9.10 > into my home directory. I did NOT install Moin. If I did install it, it > would have installed another version of python and might have broken my > Pihole application. Which means I don't have access to the "moin" utility > since no paths are defined. I do have the executable in the extracted > directory. Therefore, I cannot use it. > > On the plus side, the wiki is up and running using the wikiserver.py > utility. Found it with Google's help. To populate the new, PiWiki, I rsync > the pages directory contents from BeagleBoneBlack - source wiki, BbbWiki, > to the backup PiWiki. > > NEED HELP > The pages load fine, however any changes made to the source wiki do not > show up in the backup wiki. I don not have access to the command "moin > maint reducewiki" I should be clearer, the revision files do get copied, > however, I do not see them when I open the page in the wiki. Anyway that > can be Gerry rigged? > > Yes, I tired setting up "sync" but could not figure it out. That would be > ideal. If someone can nudge me towards setting that up, I'd sure appreciate > it. > > Yudhvir > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From post at volker-wysk.de Mon Sep 24 14:25:15 2018 From: post at volker-wysk.de (Volker Wysk) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2018 20:25:15 +0200 Subject: [moin-user] Bug report: two consecutive lists Message-ID: <9018198.r14XdJr6kr@desktop> Hi This snippet reproduces a MoinMoin bug: -----snip----- * a * b 1. c 1. d -----snip----- It is rendered like this: -----snip----- ? a ? b ? c ? d -----snip----- I'm using MoinMoin 1.9.9. Cheers, Volker From paul at boddie.org.uk Mon Sep 24 17:19:02 2018 From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2018 23:19:02 +0200 Subject: [moin-user] Bug report: two consecutive lists In-Reply-To: <9018198.r14XdJr6kr@desktop> References: <9018198.r14XdJr6kr@desktop> Message-ID: <3225665.3uUnutC3lJ@jeremy> On Monday 24. September 2018 20.25.15 Volker Wysk wrote: > > This snippet reproduces a MoinMoin bug: > > -----snip----- > * a > * b > > 1. c > 1. d > -----snip----- > > It is rendered like this: > > -----snip----- > ? a > ? b > > ? c > ? d > -----snip----- > > I'm using MoinMoin 1.9.9. This seems surprising, but is partly confirmed in the syntax reference: https://moinmo.in/HelpOnMoinWikiSyntax#Unordered_Lists In that document, what seem like adjacent lists are actually merged: * item 1 * item 2 (preceding white space) This can be desirable because you might want to space out the items in a list to make the source text more readable. So, these are just two items in the same list with some space between them. What you might expect, however, is that such lists with different "markers" would be interpreted as being distinct lists, but I guess that the parser doesn't agree. It would be interesting to know whether Moin 2 preserves this behaviour. In my own parser for Moin syntax, I interpret blank lines between items having different "markers" as separating distinct lists. I won't deny that describing the parsing rules is a challenge, aiming to preserve reasonable existing behaviour whilst introducing improved new behaviour. Even describing the existing rules without just copying the code from Moin is awkward. Paul From post at volker-wysk.de Mon Sep 24 17:55:33 2018 From: post at volker-wysk.de (Volker Wysk) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2018 23:55:33 +0200 Subject: [moin-user] Bug report: two consecutive lists In-Reply-To: <3225665.3uUnutC3lJ@jeremy> References: <9018198.r14XdJr6kr@desktop> <3225665.3uUnutC3lJ@jeremy> Message-ID: <3017016.UZvdx7efoM@desktop> Am Montag, 24. September 2018, 23:19:02 CEST schrieb Paul Boddie: > On Monday 24. September 2018 20.25.15 Volker Wysk wrote: > > > > This snippet reproduces a MoinMoin bug: > > > > -----snip----- > > * a > > * b > > > > 1. c > > 1. d > > -----snip----- > > > > It is rendered like this: > > > > -----snip----- > > ? a > > ? b > > > > ? c > > ? d > > -----snip----- > > > > I'm using MoinMoin 1.9.9. > > This seems surprising, but is partly confirmed in the syntax reference: > > https://moinmo.in/HelpOnMoinWikiSyntax#Unordered_Lists > > In that document, what seem like adjacent lists are actually merged: > > * item 1 > > * item 2 (preceding white space) > > This can be desirable because you might want to space out the items in a list > to make the source text more readable. So, these are just two items in the > same list with some space between them. > > What you might expect, however, is that such lists with different "markers" > would be interpreted as being distinct lists, Yes, that's the point. > but I guess that the parser > doesn't agree. It would be interesting to know whether Moin 2 preserves this > behaviour. > > In my own parser for Moin syntax, I interpret blank lines between items having > different "markers" as separating distinct lists. I won't deny that describing > the parsing rules is a challenge, aiming to preserve reasonable existing > behaviour whilst introducing improved new behaviour. Even describing the > existing rules without just copying the code from Moin is awkward. Yeah, that's right. Building parsers is notoriously difficult. (But try Prolog! ;-) ) So, you agree that it's a bug, but it's hard to fix - right? Cheers Volker From paul at boddie.org.uk Mon Sep 24 18:23:19 2018 From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2018 00:23:19 +0200 Subject: [moin-user] Bug report: two consecutive lists In-Reply-To: <3017016.UZvdx7efoM@desktop> References: <9018198.r14XdJr6kr@desktop> <3225665.3uUnutC3lJ@jeremy> <3017016.UZvdx7efoM@desktop> Message-ID: <1562962.pxlsZSWCTx@jeremy> On Monday 24. September 2018 23.55.33 Volker Wysk wrote: > > Yeah, that's right. Building parsers is notoriously difficult. (But try > Prolog! ;-) ) Prolog was part of my education, and there are some things that practically demand its use (or something like it), but I won't say that it wasn't/isn't frustrating in its own way, too. > So, you agree that it's a bug, but it's hard to fix - right? I think it is a bug, but I didn't write the code or envisage the current output as being correct, so my opinion isn't as important as those who did. Still, it probably involves changing some regular expressions to terminate lists when encountering different "markers". I can't remember whether Moin's parser tries to match entire lists at once, only individual items at once, or whether it starts a list and then looks for something that terminates it. The details will be in MoinMoin/parser/text_moin_wiki.py or something like that. And then some regression tests are required to guard against breaking other things, which is pretty important as well. Writing tests to establish behaviour can be quite challenging, too. Paul From post at volker-wysk.de Mon Sep 24 19:10:40 2018 From: post at volker-wysk.de (Volker Wysk) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2018 01:10:40 +0200 Subject: [moin-user] Bug report: two consecutive lists In-Reply-To: <1562962.pxlsZSWCTx@jeremy> References: <9018198.r14XdJr6kr@desktop> <3017016.UZvdx7efoM@desktop> <1562962.pxlsZSWCTx@jeremy> Message-ID: <2509343.mPnaaylzFh@desktop> Am Dienstag, 25. September 2018, 00:23:19 CEST schrieb Paul Boddie: > On Monday 24. September 2018 23.55.33 Volker Wysk wrote: > > > > Yeah, that's right. Building parsers is notoriously difficult. (But try > > Prolog! ;-) ) > > Prolog was part of my education, and there are some things that practically > demand its use (or something like it), but I won't say that it wasn't/isn't > frustrating in its own way, too. There are much more advanced logic languages, like Mercury or Oz. I expect them to be less frustrating... Volker From post at volker-wysk.de Mon Sep 24 23:07:02 2018 From: post at volker-wysk.de (Volker Wysk) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2018 05:07:02 +0200 Subject: [moin-user] Bug report: emtpy line added Message-ID: <3331231.uK8st5JSD4@desktop> Hi! The following: -----snip----- abc:: {{{#!highlight shell numbers=disable # bla }}} -----snip----- gets rendered as: -----snip----- abc # bla -----snip----- Whereas this: -----snip----- abc:: {{{#!highlight shell numbers=disable bla }}} -----snip----- gets rendered as: -----snip----- abc # bla -----snip----- In the first case, when there's a hash sign in front of the last line in the {{{...}}}-block, an additional, empty line is inserted. Bye Volker From post at volker-wysk.de Tue Sep 25 08:20:32 2018 From: post at volker-wysk.de (Volker Wysk) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2018 14:20:32 +0200 Subject: [moin-user] Bug report: emtpy line added In-Reply-To: <3331231.uK8st5JSD4@desktop> References: <3331231.uK8st5JSD4@desktop> Message-ID: <16377315.kxhWG5c3sS@desktop> Hi I've messed up my bug report up, sorry. Here's again what's happening. Have a look at this wiki page: -----snip----- {{{#!highlight shell numbers=disable # bla }}} {{{#!highlight shell numbers=disable bla }}} -----snip----- This gets rendered as shown in the attached image. In the first case, when there's a hash sign in front of the last line in the {{{...}}}-block, an additional, empty line is inserted. (Such as after a comment line in the displayed shell script). There is none when the last line in the block doesn't begin with "#". Bye Volker -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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