From UlrichB at posteo.de Mon Aug 14 16:17:24 2023 From: UlrichB at posteo.de (Ulrich B.) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2023 20:17:24 +0000 Subject: [moin-devel] moin2 release with core functionality Message-ID: Hello, many owners of a moin 1.9 wiki are waiting for a moin replacement based on Python3. If we limit the functionality of moin2 to the core features of moin1.9, IMO it should be possible to move to beta status or even better create a release candidate. For example, we can allow moinwiki markup and disable all other markup languages in the default configuration. They will then be treated as experimental. Wiki owners can test if they can migrate their wiki data to moin2. This could be an option to get more people interested in the development and to push the release of moin2. What is your opinion about this idea? I look forward to your feedback. With regards, Ulrich From paul at boddie.org.uk Mon Aug 14 17:02:29 2023 From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2023 23:02:29 +0200 Subject: [moin-devel] moin2 release with core functionality In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3512515.DfkFb6L68U@jason> On Monday, 14 August 2023 22:17:24 CEST Ulrich B. wrote: > > many owners of a moin 1.9 wiki are waiting for a moin replacement based > on Python3. If we limit the functionality of moin2 to the core features > of moin1.9, IMO it should be possible to move to beta status or even > better create a release candidate. For example, we can allow moinwiki > markup and disable all other markup languages in the default > configuration. They will then be treated as experimental. Certainly, focus on the core features might help get the software into a state that people will be comfortable with. I shouldn't comment too substantially about this, though, since I have only been doing superficial testing of Moin 2, as discussed below. For all I know, it might be stable and usable enough already. > Wiki owners can test if they can migrate their wiki data to moin2. This > could be an option to get more people interested in the development and > to push the release of moin2. I agree that migration is a great way of exposing deficiencies and making people more interested. When I converted the Mailman wiki from Confluence to Moin, I found that converting content exposed many things that I then had to fix, and doing so in bulk rather accelerated the process, highlighting multiple areas of improvement simultaneously. > What is your opinion about this idea? I look forward to your feedback. I think I saw that you had updated the Moin wiki with instructions for installing Moin 2 on Debian. In fact, Debian packages have been created for Moin 2 already, but we didn't manage to get them into the latest stable release. At the moment, they are parked here: https://salsa.debian.org/moin-team/ (Ignore the "old" repositories.) What we really need to do is to generate packages for people who don't want to build them independently. I have also been packaging some other software for Debian and have used the "CI" facilities in the Salsa service which can build packages and test them, but I don't think such CI-built packages are published anywhere. Maybe such automated publishing can be done another way, though. I have performed cursory testing on the Moin packages and was able to get a Moin site up and running in a Debian unstable environment, so I have some confidence in the basic functionality. Paul From mscottreynolds at gmail.com Tue Aug 15 17:13:57 2023 From: mscottreynolds at gmail.com (M. Scott Reynolds) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2023 15:13:57 -0600 Subject: [moin-devel] moin2 release with core functionality In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I love this idea! I consider myself a competent developer and was hoping I could at least get into just the basic functionality, enough to mimic 1.9, but I am not an experienced Python developer and wasn't able to get much beyond the launcher--besides life just interrupting and distracting me. It would also be nice to be able to set up an instance without going through all of the developer steps and environment; it is like every time I want to work on it, "OK, now what was it I did to setup that virtual python environment?...." hah. Scott. On 8/14/2023 14:17, Ulrich B. wrote: > Hello, > > many owners of a moin 1.9 wiki are waiting for a moin replacement > based on Python3. If we limit the functionality of moin2 to the core > features of moin1.9, IMO it should be possible to move to beta status > or even better create a release candidate. For example, we can allow > moinwiki markup and disable all other markup languages in the default > configuration. They will then be treated as experimental. > > Wiki owners can test if they can migrate their wiki data to moin2. > This could be an option to get more people interested in the > development and to push the release of moin2. > > What is your opinion about this idea? I look forward to your feedback. > > With regards, > > Ulrich > > _______________________________________________ > moin-devel mailing list > moin-devel at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/moin-devel From paul at boddie.org.uk Tue Aug 15 18:47:12 2023 From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2023 00:47:12 +0200 Subject: [moin-devel] moin2 release with core functionality In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2558137.tW0As7gyun@jason> On Tuesday, 15 August 2023 23:13:57 CEST M. Scott Reynolds wrote: > > It would also be nice to be able to set up an instance without going > through all of the developer steps and environment; it is like every > time I want to work on it, "OK, now what was it I did to setup that > virtual python environment?...." hah. The aim with regard to the Debian packaging is that you should be able to just invoke "apt install moin2" and get all the necessary software. Then, doing the following would get you started: moin create-instance moin index-create moin run There would be no need to mess around with whatever the Python packaging universe has decided today, nor with the peculiarities of a developer installation, at least if the focus is on testing the software or writing extensions. And for development of the software itself, the moin2 package and its dependencies could be installed, and then the moin2 package itself could be removed, making it possible to work directly with the development repository instead. Currently, I'm trying to update the packages but have encountered some problems with the test suite that didn't occur before. It is a tedious exercise, second-guessing overcomplicated packaging tools and presumably re- enacting the mainframe era by invoking programs that take minutes to run before they dump a transcript of arcane errors. But I imagine that updated packages will be ready eventually. Paul From paul at boddie.org.uk Wed Aug 16 11:40:56 2023 From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2023 17:40:56 +0200 Subject: [moin-devel] moin2 release with core functionality In-Reply-To: <2558137.tW0As7gyun@jason> References: <2558137.tW0As7gyun@jason> Message-ID: <20389888.dA5okLDTEi@jason> On Wednesday, 16 August 2023 00:47:12 CEST Paul Boddie wrote: > > The aim with regard to the Debian packaging is that you should be able to > just invoke "apt install moin2" and get all the necessary software. Correcting myself here, you would actually do this: apt install python3-moinmoin2 > Currently, I'm trying to update the packages but have encountered some > problems with the test suite that didn't occur before. These are actually related to the way that the tests invoke the moin program which obviously needs the program to be available somehow. For some reason, this doesn't work, even though I have been packaging something else whose principal program can be invoked just fine to run its accompanying tests. Ignoring the test suite, the actual package is still installable and usable, although I am sure that improvements can be made. Resources like the following yield 404 errors, for instance: /+serve/autosize/jquery.autosize-min.js /+serve/font_awesome/css/all.css As far as the test suite is concerned, I have moved it to the Salsa CI system where it may well experience problems as it attempts to obtain other packages that are completely new to Debian, these being shown in the overview of the repositories: https://salsa.debian.org/moin-team/ If there is any documentation about the kinds of workarounds that have been available for things like pbuilder, or any concise, pertinent documentation about the CI system at all, I cannot find it. So, I think that there will be numerous pipeline failures until I figure something out: https://salsa.debian.org/moin-team/moin/-/pipelines Anyway, I hope this is vaguely interesting for some readers. Paul From UlrichB at posteo.de Wed Aug 16 17:06:38 2023 From: UlrichB at posteo.de (Ulrich B.) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2023 21:06:38 +0000 Subject: [moin-devel] moin2 release with core functionality In-Reply-To: <20389888.dA5okLDTEi@jason> References: <2558137.tW0As7gyun@jason> <20389888.dA5okLDTEi@jason> Message-ID: <377e3aba-cbb8-eb84-ea43-c983256c3768@posteo.de> @Paul, @Scott: thanks for your feedback. Am 16.08.23 um 17:40 schrieb Paul Boddie: > > As far as the test suite is concerned, I have moved it to the Salsa CI system > where it may well experience problems as it attempts to obtain other packages > that are completely new to Debian, these being shown in the overview of the > repositories: > > https://salsa.debian.org/moin-team/ > I will take a look at the build process, but it will take quite a while. Regards, Ulrich From paul at boddie.org.uk Wed Aug 16 17:53:08 2023 From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2023 23:53:08 +0200 Subject: [moin-devel] moin2 release with core functionality In-Reply-To: <377e3aba-cbb8-eb84-ea43-c983256c3768@posteo.de> References: <20389888.dA5okLDTEi@jason> <377e3aba-cbb8-eb84-ea43-c983256c3768@posteo.de> Message-ID: <7728983.CRJIfxRXAY@jason> On Wednesday, 16 August 2023 23:06:38 CEST Ulrich B. wrote: > > Am 16.08.23 um 17:40 schrieb Paul Boddie: > > As far as the test suite is concerned, I have moved it to the Salsa CI > > system where it may well experience problems as it attempts to obtain > > other packages that are completely new to Debian, these being shown in > > the overview of the repositories: > > > > https://salsa.debian.org/moin-team/ > > I will take a look at the build process, but it will take quite a while. Just to confirm, an experimental run of the test suite failed as expected because various dependencies are completely new to Debian: https://salsa.debian.org/moin-team/moin/-/jobs/4566286 Obviously, these dependencies are other packages that I have created but which have no way of being built and injected into the test environment. So, for testing in the Salsa CI environment, I need to discover a way of getting the dependencies recognised. Paul From paul at boddie.org.uk Sun Aug 20 18:16:05 2023 From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2023 00:16:05 +0200 Subject: [moin-devel] moin2 release with core functionality In-Reply-To: <7728983.CRJIfxRXAY@jason> References: <377e3aba-cbb8-eb84-ea43-c983256c3768@posteo.de> <7728983.CRJIfxRXAY@jason> Message-ID: <20151829.TJA5HnV79j@jason> On Wednesday, 16 August 2023 23:53:08 CEST Paul Boddie wrote: > > Just to confirm, an experimental run of the test suite failed as expected > because various dependencies are completely new to Debian: > > https://salsa.debian.org/moin-team/moin/-/jobs/4566286 > > Obviously, these dependencies are other packages that I have created but > which have no way of being built and injected into the test environment. > So, for testing in the Salsa CI environment, I need to discover a way of > getting the dependencies recognised. Following up, I think I have probably managed to work around CI issues and have Debian's autopkgtest invoke the Moin test suite. The Scrapy-driven test seems to be quite demanding, requiring a server to be run and lots of HTTP connections to be made, so I have instructed pytest to ignore it for now. I also saw that "US/Arizona" is used as a time zone in two of the tests. This does not seem to be recognised by pytz, being some kind of legacy zone, but the equivalent "America/Phoenix" is recognised. For now, I have applied patches in my packaging to avoid any errors related to this issue. It is not currently very easy to publish the packages that are built for this exercise in a way that makes them convenient to acquire, at least not through the Salsa service. The build artefacts do include the packages, and I could provide a list of all the package URLs, but it would be preferable to just have some kind of repository containing them all. Now, it is possible to publish repositories of packages within Salsa, and this functionality is actually used to provide some new packages to the test environment that installs Moin and runs its tests. However, more work is needed to collect all of the new packages and to serve them up together. Anyway, I hope this is of interest! Paul