[Microbit-Python] Making this list public

[Damien George]

I agree with Michael's reasoning, and vote: 1) +1, 2) -1.

There's also the option to use forum.micropython.org, and create a
sub-topic for microbit.  There is already a perfect spot for this,
alongside the other boards that run uPy (the pyboard and wipy).  But I
understand that mailing lists are more convenient for some than
forums.



On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 12:31 PM, Michael <sparks.m at gmail.com> wrote:
> To put that into context, I don't like quoting private email, but some
> relevant fragments from one of the original team members:
>
>      I managed to locate all the documents on the book, as well as
>      the drafts of the hardware and software specs of the computer.
>      Also drafts of the programmes themselves. However I do have,
>      somewhere, a file with some of the minutes of the meetings, not
>      just the correspondence. The stuff I looked at so far does not even
>      mention the owl.
>      ...
>      PS I do seem to remember that the owl was the logo of BBC Education
>      originally....not sure if that was before or after the Computer
> programme
>      though.
>
> Interesting huh? My impression is that what probably happened is someone
> said "we need a logo", and someone designed one and they just went "thanks"
> and moved on. Of course for those of us who grew up in the 80s it's one of
> *those* logos :-)
>
> As a result, it's things like this that make me think that archives are a
> good thing :-)
>
>
> Michael.
> [:]
>
>
>
>
>
> On 22 October 2015 at 12:22, Michael <sparks.m at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 22 October 2015 at 11:41, Nicholas H.Tollervey <ntoll at ntoll.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> OK... I'll leave things until the weekend when I'll make the list public
>>> (which is what people appear to want given the replies so far) unless
>>> there are strong objections.
>>>
>>> Just managing expectations of timeline and outcome.
>>>
>>> BTW, I'd love to know who designed the owl logo. Can this be put into
>>> the public domain or something "re-usable"..?
>>
>>
>> That was the reason I was trying to hunt down the creator FWIW.
>>
>> The tl;dr version of below is "arrrrrrgggghhhh. dunno? and because of that
>> 'not as far as we know'" :-/
>>
>> The impression that I've got from various people is that the Owl was
>> design by a full time member of staff who was a designer. (Having chatted to
>> several members of the original team, but confirmation is tricky) If that
>> was the case, it would be relatively simple (in BBC terms...) to get that
>> resolved. That said, it's unknown and not that simple.
>>
>> In a similar way to the fact that any code I write at work is owned by the
>> BBC and I have no rights over (such as the reference/prototype micro:bit
>> implementation), that would mean that the original designer wouldn't own the
>> rights - since the BBC would own the full rights. As a result that would
>> explain why it's tricky to identify the originator.
>>
>> A bit tangentially, but worth explaining:
>>
>> Managing rights at the BBC is an astonishingly complicated thing
>> incidentally. I was once working on a project which required time sync'd
>> metadata as a source, and I ended up using one of the rights databases. The
>> rights for something like the doctor who proms meant that someone would sit
>> with a stop watch, pause button, etc, and watch the final cut. And pretty
>> much much every 2-3 seconds have to note what thing which may have a rights
>> implication (prop, clip from the show, bit of music, star coming on screen,
>> going off screen, etc) would come up. Similarly things like soaps can be
>> problematic due to full screen copies of posters on walls and so on.
>>
>> Printed out, such a document of single line entries, the Doctor Who prom
>> would result in a 80-100 page document. By contrast, something like a 3-4
>> hour programme on the winter olympics would have a handful of pages -
>> because the people with "rights" in the show would be very few. If you think
>> combining licenses for works based on GPL, Apache and MPL can be tricky,
>> they're MUCH simpler by comparison :-)
>>
>> This focus on recording things correctly, and getting things resolved
>> early has improved an awful lot since the 70's & 80's, but sometimes there
>> can be odd examples that catch out. For example the CD release (in the late
>> 90's I think?) of the original Hitch Hiker's radio serial was *allegedly*
>> delayed because they couldn't find the sound mixer who did the original
>> incidental audio mix.
>>
>> Since they couldn't find them, and that the person was a contractor (who
>> would've been paid for all rights to the radio, tape and vinyl mixes...)
>> they couldn't rely on just being able to use the same mix - so the audio
>> needed to be remixed. Now, how true this is, I don't know - sometimes BBC
>> stories you hear are true or based on truth - I suspect this one is either
>> true or close to what actually happened - either with hitch-hikers or
>> similar.
>>
>> The problem here with the Owl arises,and becomes unclear though, because a
>> lot of designers were also not full time staff members, and whether things
>> like designs were actually owned outright by the BBC can be unclear.  Hence
>> the estate of Terry Nation owning the rights to the Daleks, Bob Baker owning
>> K9. (K9 is uncomfortably close in timeline of invention to the owl - which
>> is why I mention it)
>>
>> Anyway, the impression I think everyone has is that based on everyone I've
>> spoken to, people *think* that the Owl logo is owned by the BBC, but no-one
>> is really sure, and that uncertainty is one of the reasons (I think) that
>> it's not used any more, except buried halfway down the page on the BBC
>> internet blog. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/internet)
>>
>> Given all that, I think it might be clear why some people are more willing
>> to give it a go than others, but you can't give out a license on something
>> you don't own. If you do give out a license on something you don't own, it's
>> an offence (and a much more serious one than just making copies yourself
>> because you think you own the rights). If you're not sure, what do you do?
>>
>>
>> Michael.
>
>
>
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