From ntoll at ntoll.org Fri Jun 5 15:33:07 2015 From: ntoll at ntoll.org (Nicholas H.Tollervey) Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2015 14:33:07 +0100 Subject: [Microbit-Python] Nicholas's MicroBit editor related brain dump Message-ID: <5571A513.7020406@ntoll.org> Hi, Here's the promised brain dump: The BBC have engaged Microsoft as a partner to create a web-based coding platform for use by kids who want to program their MicroBit. They would like the Python community to contribute a Python editor. * The editor is a website based upon Microsoft's TouchDevelop platform (https://www.touchdevelop.com/). * The actual compiler is a hosted solution based upon ARMmbed (https://mbed.org/). * Put simply, some sort of digital asset representing the user's code in the TouchDevelop platform is posted to ARMmbed. ARMmbed responds with a compiled hex file (or, I presume, helpful error messages if compilation fails) that the user drags/drops onto the device. * All the capabilities of the device that we need to care about are made available via a C++ Device Abstraction Layer (DAL) runtime / library against which any code that is produced by the user is ultimately linked. * To facilitate multiple target languages in the TouchDevelop platform "editors" are embedded within iFrames within the wider TouchDevelop editor environment. Such editors communicate with the TouchDevelop environment via standard JavaScript postMessage techniques. TouchDevelop handles generic web-app like features such as authentication, authorization, storage of data etc. * An editor is hosted by a third party (In our case, http://pythonanywhere.com/) and has four responsibilities: 1) To present an IDE into which code is entered. 2) Tutorials / Howtos and other language specific help functions. 3) Drive the Javascript based simulator embedded in the TouchDevelop environment via a Javascript API that maps to the C++ DAL runtime (presumably via postMessage passing). 4) Provide a compilation mechanism that targets either Microsoft's own AST (facilitating translation between languages) or C++ that is then linked against the DAL C++ runtime mentioned above. * The language implementation will likely be a Pythonic "shim" around the C++ runtime (Pythin - a less heavy Python... geddit?) and will also include further simple language features documented by the BBC such as variables, control flow etc... * Michael Sparks (of this parish) has already done a lot of work on creating a reduced version of Python that compiles to C++ (although I presume NOT the current DAL). I'll leave it to Michael to explain more. ;-) I'm more than happy to answer any questions you may have about any of the above. My next task is to get you all access to the BBC's GitHub repos. All the best, Nicholas. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 473 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From ntoll at ntoll.org Fri Jun 5 15:46:26 2015 From: ntoll at ntoll.org (Nicholas H.Tollervey) Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2015 14:46:26 +0100 Subject: [Microbit-Python] Need your GitHub usernames Message-ID: <5571A832.4070700@ntoll.org> Hi Folks, Blocker no. #1. While I know for certain many of your GitHub usernames, I can't be certain for others. Can you please reply to this mailing list with the relevant details. Robert Lee (a project manager at the BBC and subscribed to this list) should, once/if he gets the approval he needs, be able to subscribe you to the relevant repos. At which point I'll point you at the interesting stuff we'll need to read/digest. Finally, Howard, I notice that the DAL code in the repos I have access to appears to be out of date. Is there another repos where this has been forked to..? If so, could we also get access to it please..? Many thanks, Nicholas. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 473 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From mail at timgolden.me.uk Fri Jun 5 15:48:14 2015 From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden) Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2015 14:48:14 +0100 Subject: [Microbit-Python] Need your GitHub usernames In-Reply-To: <5571A832.4070700@ntoll.org> References: <5571A832.4070700@ntoll.org> Message-ID: <5571A89E.6040902@timgolden.me.uk> I'm tjguk From giles at pythonanywhere.com Fri Jun 5 15:48:47 2015 From: giles at pythonanywhere.com (Giles Thomas) Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2015 14:48:47 +0100 Subject: [Microbit-Python] Need your GitHub usernames In-Reply-To: <5571A832.4070700@ntoll.org> References: <5571A832.4070700@ntoll.org> Message-ID: <5571A8BF.2090205@pythonanywhere.com> I'm gpjt. On 05/06/15 14:46, Nicholas H.Tollervey wrote: > Hi Folks, > > Blocker no. #1. While I know for certain many of your GitHub usernames, > I can't be certain for others. Can you please reply to this mailing list > with the relevant details. > > Robert Lee (a project manager at the BBC and subscribed to this list) > should, once/if he gets the approval he needs, be able to subscribe you > to the relevant repos. At which point I'll point you at the interesting > stuff we'll need to read/digest. > > Finally, Howard, I notice that the DAL code in the repos I have access > to appears to be out of date. Is there another repos where this has been > forked to..? If so, could we also get access to it please..? > > Many thanks, > > Nicholas. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Microbit mailing list > Microbit at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/microbit -- Giles Thomas PythonAnywhere: Develop and host Python from your browser A product from PythonAnywhere LLP 17a Clerkenwell Road, London EC1M 5RD, UK VAT No.: GB 893 5643 79 Registered in England and Wales as company number OC378414. Registered address: 28 Ely Place, 3rd Floor, London EC1N 6TD, UK -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From naomi.ceder at gmail.com Fri Jun 5 15:49:25 2015 From: naomi.ceder at gmail.com (Naomi Ceder) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2015 14:49:25 +0100 Subject: [Microbit-Python] Need your GitHub usernames In-Reply-To: <5571A89E.6040902@timgolden.me.uk> References: <5571A832.4070700@ntoll.org> <5571A89E.6040902@timgolden.me.uk> Message-ID: I'm nceder on Github On 5 June 2015 at 14:48, Tim Golden wrote: > I'm tjguk > _______________________________________________ > Microbit mailing list > Microbit at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/microbit > -- Naomi Ceder https://plus.google.com/u/0/111396744045017339164/about -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tom at wearewizards.io Fri Jun 5 15:50:40 2015 From: tom at wearewizards.io (Tom Hunger) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2015 14:50:40 +0100 Subject: [Microbit-Python] Need your GitHub usernames In-Reply-To: References: <5571A832.4070700@ntoll.org> <5571A89E.6040902@timgolden.me.uk> Message-ID: I'm teh. ~ On Fri, Jun 5, 2015 at 2:49 PM, Naomi Ceder wrote: > I'm nceder on Github > > > On 5 June 2015 at 14:48, Tim Golden wrote: > >> I'm tjguk >> _______________________________________________ >> Microbit mailing list >> Microbit at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/microbit >> > > > > -- > Naomi Ceder > https://plus.google.com/u/0/111396744045017339164/about > > _______________________________________________ > Microbit mailing list > Microbit at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/microbit > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From damien.p.george at gmail.com Fri Jun 5 15:52:38 2015 From: damien.p.george at gmail.com (Damien George) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2015 14:52:38 +0100 Subject: [Microbit-Python] Need your GitHub usernames In-Reply-To: <5571A832.4070700@ntoll.org> References: <5571A832.4070700@ntoll.org> Message-ID: I'm dpgeorge From vincent at wearewizards.io Fri Jun 5 15:54:11 2015 From: vincent at wearewizards.io (Vincent Prouillet) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2015 14:54:11 +0100 Subject: [Microbit-Python] Need your GitHub usernames In-Reply-To: References: <5571A832.4070700@ntoll.org> Message-ID: I'm Keats On Fri, Jun 5, 2015 at 2:52 PM, Damien George wrote: > I'm dpgeorge > _______________________________________________ > Microbit mailing list > Microbit at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/microbit > -- Cheers, Vincent Prouillet. https://wearewizards.io/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sparks.m at gmail.com Fri Jun 5 16:32:47 2015 From: sparks.m at gmail.com (Michael) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2015 15:32:47 +0100 Subject: [Microbit-Python] Need your GitHub usernames In-Reply-To: <5571A832.4070700@ntoll.org> References: <5571A832.4070700@ntoll.org> Message-ID: Can I have both my personal and work github ids added please? Personal: sparkslabs Work: michael-sparks Michael. On 5 June 2015 at 14:46, Nicholas H.Tollervey wrote: > Hi Folks, > > Blocker no. #1. While I know for certain many of your GitHub usernames, > I can't be certain for others. Can you please reply to this mailing list > with the relevant details. > > Robert Lee (a project manager at the BBC and subscribed to this list) > should, once/if he gets the approval he needs, be able to subscribe you > to the relevant repos. At which point I'll point you at the interesting > stuff we'll need to read/digest. > > Finally, Howard, I notice that the DAL code in the repos I have access > to appears to be out of date. Is there another repos where this has been > forked to..? If so, could we also get access to it please..? > > Many thanks, > > Nicholas. > > > _______________________________________________ > Microbit mailing list > Microbit at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/microbit > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sparks.m at gmail.com Fri Jun 5 16:36:17 2015 From: sparks.m at gmail.com (Michael) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2015 15:36:17 +0100 Subject: [Microbit-Python] Fwd: Python editor - BBC MicroBit. Next steps... In-Reply-To: References: <5571A168.7070700@ntoll.org> Message-ID: [ Forwarded as per request by ntoll - sorry if you get this twice:-) ] Hi, Those I haven't seen for a while - good to see you, those I haven't met, pleased to meet you :-) > Michael Sparks also works for the BBC in R&D and was the mastermind > behind the prototype. I don't think I've ever been called a mastermind before, not outside of fancy dress anyway :) By way of clarification of what I can bring to the table please excuse the info dump below. I'm still unclear about how much I can share of this and how much I can't. (I have a document that details the dev process about what I built and how though, which may be of use) I'm assuming that I can share everything I built during that time frame with everyone on this d-list. For reasons of practicality, this is what I built/created (largely from scratch) in the main 12-13 week development window for the *prototype*. (mid sept-mid-dec) (Apologies for the copy and paste) * Designing hardware including picking hardware components This is also clearly an embedded systems device, so would be natively compiled in C or C++, but would need a friendlier language - which implies a front end language to back end language compiler -- In this case I created a python to C++ compiler. * Designing firmware to control the device, including creating a font for its display * Building web systems for: * Children to write programs * Supporting browsing programs, supporting parents and teachers, and protecting children, enabling group working and sharing. * Storing and tracking programs creating graphically in both graphical and python forms. * Batch compiling python programs such that they can run on a Microcontroller * This had to be robust enough for use in schools at the end of that main dev period * Client side applications for assisting loading user programs onto the device * A prototol for interacting with the device as a peripheral * Support for direct programming of the device, and also usage in an IOT context. * Client side toolset/examples for working with the device as a peripheral (As well as libraries this included a PySde-QT editor/micro development environment) * Power optimisations - there was an aspiration to run for a few days continuous off a single 2032 battery. (achieved incidentally) * Alongside all this detailed specifications of the device needed to be created, such that any part of this system could be changed. For 6 weeks of that I had part-time help from 2 colleagues, to help flesh out the website primarily. Back end storage incidentally was loosely based on git's storage model. Note: all the above refers to the prototype that's been waved around in public, not the final production system. The prototype had two main jobs: * To be usable in schools to test the proposition with children - During this development continued, but of the bug fixing kind, which is why I described the above as the main dev window) * To be suitable as a reference implementation for understanding (and sanity checking) the functional/technical specs Both aspects have very different forces on the prototype - the former means it needs to be sufficiently fast, stable, robust and cheap enough to produce at the scale of hundreds to low thousands of users, the latter means it has to be as simple enough to be understandable and flexible to change. > However, for oddly bureaucratic reasons he can't > collaborate with us as a BBC employee but he *can* as a member of the > Python community Before anyone asks, let's just ignore this - anything I do on this is either BBC owned or if I do it on my own time open source (Apache 2 generally, but flexible). I can't get a straight answer from anyone about this (I get the impression my manager is baffled by this too :-) ). Think W1A and lots of good will. Those of you who have met me know that my reaction to bureaucracy is to try and code round it :-) So, I started my own reimplementation - a couple of months ago of the python to C++ compiler that I had at the core of the original prototype (from scratch, on my own time, with my own tools). I want something I can use with cubs/scouts. since I work with them in my spare time. I figured it'd be quicker to start again :-) (Also, if there was one bit of the system I'd wanted to redo, it was that bit :) Anyway, code talks - this is what I have at present, that is public: https://pypi.python.org/pypi/pyxie (Apache 2 license) It's early stages, but does handle things like parsing, basic type inference, code generation, and does have a language spec, tests etc. It's loosely based on the SWP parser I've given lightning talks about in the past. I do have a github project for that, and the only reason that's not public yet is because I just want it to be a bit more complete before doing so. If I'm able to share the existing python/C++ compiler created for the microbit project, I'll do that. It's a bit rough and ready, and total dev time on that part of the system was probably 4-5 weeks at most, so it takes a lot of short cuts, and you'll see why I started again anyway :) Has everyone seen/got access to the prototype website built for the school's trial? (It's not advertised anywhere, but it was always left open) The IOT toolset referred to above is here: - http://github.com/sparkslabs/iotoy (From previous R&D work released a while ago) Best Regards, Michael. On 5 June 2015 at 14:17, Nicholas H.Tollervey wrote: > Hi, > > At last, you've all signed the NDA and the PSF and BBC have ironed out > their partnership agreement..! We can start to create a web-based Python > editor..! :-) > > Our immediate next steps are as follows: > > * Set up a mailing list. (I have microbit at python.org ready and will > subscribe you to it - it is a PRIVATE mailing list. If you want to > remain OFF the list, just ping me an email and I'll remove you); > > * Organise our diaries for a weekend hack (please see: > http://doodle.com/e75bmkskgc6gm6mt - I've used the weekends I can make. > If this proves difficult we'll have to think of perhaps an evening > "projects night" type affair); > > * Give everyone access to the GitHub MicroBit account and arrange our > own GitHub repository. > > Once we have the mailing list set up I'll brain-dump everything that I > know, along with links to the appropriate documentation on the MicroBit > GitHub account and our own private GitHub repos. > > The initial hack-day type meeting has one outcome: answer the question, > "given the time and technical constraints, can we create a Python editor > for the touch-develop platform promoted by the BBC to use to program the > MicroBit? If so, what steps, and by whom, need to be taken?" > > I'm more than happy to answer any questions you may have. > > Who is everyone in the To and cc'd fields..? Many of you will already > know each other, but for those of you who don't: > > CC'd are Fiona and Howard who are the project manager and technical > manager for the MicroBit project. > > Michael Sparks also works for the BBC in R&D and was the mastermind > behind the prototype. However, for oddly bureaucratic reasons he can't > collaborate with us as a BBC employee but he *can* as a member of the > Python community (as many of you will remember, Michael is already a > significant figure in the UK Python community having helped to organise > and run the early PyCon UKs with the late John Pinner). > > I've also cc'd Damien George (of MicroPython fame) because he's also > getting Python to run on the device but in a different way to us - > although I'm guessing there are plenty of opportunities for us to peek > over shoulders and bounce ideas around. I've also cc'd Jonathan Austin > from ARM who first told me that the hardware could run MicroPython - > he's also Damien's next-door neighbour and appears to be Py-curious ;-). > > Harry and Giles work at Python Anywhere and have offered to host any > work that we do. Obviously, they also have bags of experience with > web-based Python editing environments. > > Tim is a Python core developer with a passion for education and > computing with young people. He also works within the Microsoft > eco-system - such knowledge will be useful given that the scaffolding > application we're using is from Microsoft (although it's actually a > node.js app). > > Michael Foord is another Python core developer, beard aficionado and > former colleague of Giles and Harry when they were Resolver Systems. I > believe they once wrote a "Python compiler" (note the quotes) together > as part of their Resolver work. > > Mark Shannon is yet another Python core developer with an expertise in > compilers and was, most recently and famously, final arbiter of Guido's > type annotations work (a hard job if ever there was one). ;-) > > Naomi Ceder is a Director of the Board of the Python Software > Foundation, a Python programmer, former teacher and community organiser. > Despite only being in the UK for about a year she's already contributed > a huge amount in terms of the TransCode hack days and helping to > organise PyCon UK including contributions to the education track. > > Carrie Anne Philbin is another Director of the Board of the Python > Software Foundation, the Raspberry Pi Foundation's "Education Pioneer", > award winning teacher, author, programmer, speaker and so the list goes > on. Carrie Anne may not be able to attend our hack days or have time to > contribute code but will be watching with interest and no doubt will > have suggestions. > > Gautier, Tom and Vincent are, collectively, "We Are Wizards" - and > literally create magic through code. I've worked with Gautier at Fry-IT > and know Tom (formerly of Google) and Vincent from the London code dojo. > They bring a considerable breadth and depth of Python development > experience (among other things). > > Phew. > > Let's see what we can make..! > > As always, comments, suggestions and constructive critique most welcome! > > Best wishes, > > Nicholas. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From howard.baker at bbc.co.uk Fri Jun 5 16:04:06 2015 From: howard.baker at bbc.co.uk (Howard Baker-IF&L) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2015 14:04:06 +0000 Subject: [Microbit-Python] Need your GitHub usernames In-Reply-To: <5571A832.4070700@ntoll.org> References: <5571A832.4070700@ntoll.org> Message-ID: I'm aitchgb Just to check -- is this where you are looking https://github.com/bbc/microbit-extras/tree/master/systems/DAL%20API -----Original Message----- From: Microbit [mailto:microbit-bounces+howard.baker=bbc.co.uk at python.org] On Behalf Of Nicholas H.Tollervey Sent: 05 June 2015 14:46 To: microbit at python.org Subject: [Microbit-Python] Need your GitHub usernames Hi Folks, Blocker no. #1. While I know for certain many of your GitHub usernames, I can't be certain for others. Can you please reply to this mailing list with the relevant details. Robert Lee (a project manager at the BBC and subscribed to this list) should, once/if he gets the approval he needs, be able to subscribe you to the relevant repos. At which point I'll point you at the interesting stuff we'll need to read/digest. Finally, Howard, I notice that the DAL code in the repos I have access to appears to be out of date. Is there another repos where this has been forked to..? If so, could we also get access to it please..? Many thanks, Nicholas. From ntoll at ntoll.org Fri Jun 5 16:39:32 2015 From: ntoll at ntoll.org (Nicholas H.Tollervey) Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2015 15:39:32 +0100 Subject: [Microbit-Python] Need your GitHub usernames In-Reply-To: References: <5571A832.4070700@ntoll.org> Message-ID: <5571B4A4.5030701@ntoll.org> On 05/06/15 15:04, Howard Baker-IF&L wrote: > I'm aitchgb > > Just to check -- is this where you are looking https://github.com/bbc/microbit-extras/tree/master/systems/DAL%20API > Yes... no activity in a couple of months. I presume this is because development is happening elsewhere..? N. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 473 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From sparks.m at gmail.com Fri Jun 5 16:57:51 2015 From: sparks.m at gmail.com (Michael) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2015 15:57:51 +0100 Subject: [Microbit-Python] Need your GitHub usernames In-Reply-To: <5571A832.4070700@ntoll.org> References: <5571A832.4070700@ntoll.org> Message-ID: Further to my prior question as to how much I can share of the reference implementation, it appears I can share all of it, since a snapshot is in here: https://github.com/bbc/microbit-extras/tree/master/refimpl That looks like an *OLD* snapshot though, so I'll fix that first - no point working off a version that's old. (The diff just for the compiler is about 2000 lines) Michael. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From howard.baker at bbc.co.uk Fri Jun 5 17:15:15 2015 From: howard.baker at bbc.co.uk (Howard Baker-IF&L) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2015 15:15:15 +0000 Subject: [Microbit-Python] Need your GitHub usernames In-Reply-To: <5571B4A4.5030701@ntoll.org> References: <5571A832.4070700@ntoll.org> <5571B4A4.5030701@ntoll.org> Message-ID: Yep -- on the mbed platform. However there have been a number of updates to the runtime. Let me find out where they are going. Howard -----Original Message----- From: Microbit [mailto:microbit-bounces+howard.baker=bbc.co.uk at python.org] On Behalf Of Nicholas H.Tollervey Sent: 05 June 2015 15:40 To: microbit at python.org Subject: Re: [Microbit-Python] Need your GitHub usernames On 05/06/15 15:04, Howard Baker-IF&L wrote: > I'm aitchgb > > Just to check -- is this where you are looking https://github.com/bbc/microbit-extras/tree/master/systems/DAL%20API > Yes... no activity in a couple of months. I presume this is because development is happening elsewhere..? N. From ntoll at ntoll.org Fri Jun 5 18:18:05 2015 From: ntoll at ntoll.org (Nicholas H.Tollervey) Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2015 17:18:05 +0100 Subject: [Microbit-Python] Need your GitHub usernames In-Reply-To: References: <5571A832.4070700@ntoll.org> <5571B4A4.5030701@ntoll.org> Message-ID: <5571CBBD.80707@ntoll.org> On 05/06/15 16:15, Howard Baker-IF&L wrote: > Yep -- on the mbed platform. However there have been a number of updates to the runtime. Let me find out where they are going. > > Howard > Hi Howard, Jonny has been in touch wrt the mbed platform hosting and has that in hand. I presume it's OK for everyone on this list (i.e. we've all signed the NDA) to be given access to that platform..? N. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 473 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From sparks.m at gmail.com Fri Jun 5 19:26:51 2015 From: sparks.m at gmail.com (Michael) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2015 18:26:51 +0100 Subject: [Microbit-Python] Need your GitHub usernames In-Reply-To: References: <5571A832.4070700@ntoll.org> Message-ID: Looks like my work github id only has read access at the moment to this repository, so I can't push the up to date version of the prototype's codebase into /refimpl I'll give Rob a chance to update permissions/ids :-) Michael. On 5 June 2015 at 15:57, Michael wrote: > Further to my prior question as to how much I can share of the reference > implementation, it appears I can share all of it, since a snapshot is in > here: > > https://github.com/bbc/microbit-extras/tree/master/refimpl > > That looks like an *OLD* snapshot though, so I'll fix that first - no > point working off a version that's old. (The diff just for the compiler is > about 2000 lines) > > > Michael. > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Jonathan.Austin at arm.com Fri Jun 5 19:41:03 2015 From: Jonathan.Austin at arm.com (Jonathan Austin) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2015 18:41:03 +0100 Subject: [Microbit-Python] Need your GitHub usernames In-Reply-To: <5571CBBD.80707@ntoll.org> References: <5571A832.4070700@ntoll.org> <5571B4A4.5030701@ntoll.org> <5571CBBD.80707@ntoll.org> Message-ID: Hi all, As well as the way Nicholas introduced me in the last email, I'm also responsible for the software side of Microbit at ARM/mbed - very exciting to have the Python stuff kicking off in earnest! On 5 Jun 2015, at 17:18, Nicholas H.Tollervey wrote: > On 05/06/15 16:15, Howard Baker-IF&L wrote: >> Yep -- on the mbed platform. However there have been a number of updates to the runtime. Let me find out where they are going. >> >> Howard >> > > Hi Howard, > > Jonny has been in touch wrt the mbed platform hosting and has that in > hand. I presume it's OK for everyone on this list (i.e. we've all signed > the NDA) to be given access to that platform..? (this has now been confirmed in another thread, so I'm going to start sharing!) Microbit is/will be based on the mbed platform (http://developer.mbed.org) and Joe Finney has ported the DAL from the original prototype on top of the mbed SDK[1] and mbed's BLE APIs[2]. The mbed SDK is high(isn) level C++ API that abstracts individual manufacturer micro controller details. Hopefully this means that work done on top of the mbed SDK will be useful for future microbitalikes (and possibly many past boards too) even if they don't use the exact same hardware or microcontroller - yay! [3] So, the latest version of the DAL lives in a repository at mbed, and is very much a moving target. I'm happy to give you all access to the Microbit group on mbed.org so that you can see/use/(fix!?) the code. As with github, I'd need your mbed usernames... Rob Lee (BBC Rob) can do this too. You can use the new DAL in the online IDE/compiler if you want, as hardware becomes available we'll make sure there's a public mbed platform that people can build for. For now, the hardware is similar enough to an existing platform that we're using that [4] Hope that helps, Jonny [1] The mbed SDK that the DAL has been ported onto lives here: https://github.com/mbedmicro/mbed (Apache 2) And the BLE side of stuff is supported via the mbed BLE API https://github.com/mbedmicro/BLE_API (Apache 2) [3] It also means you can use the mbed C++ online IDE to program a microbit, but that won't necessarily be a big deal at launch as it isn't learning focused like the other IDEs being built. [4] Recent prototypes are compatible enough with this platform: https://developer.mbed.org/platforms/mbed-HRM1017/ - just don't use the UART or the LEDs will all flash on/off ;) > N. > > > _______________________________________________ > Microbit mailing list > Microbit at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/microbit -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. ARM Limited, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ, Registered in England & Wales, Company No: 2557590 ARM Holdings plc, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ, Registered in England & Wales, Company No: 2548782 From howard.baker at bbc.co.uk Sat Jun 6 11:00:42 2015 From: howard.baker at bbc.co.uk (Howard Baker-IF&L) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2015 09:00:42 +0000 Subject: [Microbit-Python] Need your GitHub usernames In-Reply-To: <5571CBBD.80707@ntoll.org> References: <5571A832.4070700@ntoll.org> <5571B4A4.5030701@ntoll.org> , <5571CBBD.80707@ntoll.org> Message-ID: Hi Nicholas, Good, I'm glad Jonny has done that. From my point of view yes, but can you quickly check with Jonny first please just in case there is an issue for them. Best wsihes Howard ________________________________________ From: Microbit [microbit-bounces+howard.baker=bbc.co.uk at python.org] on behalf of Nicholas H.Tollervey [ntoll at ntoll.org] Sent: 05 June 2015 17:18 To: microbit at python.org Subject: Re: [Microbit-Python] Need your GitHub usernames On 05/06/15 16:15, Howard Baker-IF&L wrote: > Yep -- on the mbed platform. However there have been a number of updates to the runtime. Let me find out where they are going. > > Howard > Hi Howard, Jonny has been in touch wrt the mbed platform hosting and has that in hand. I presume it's OK for everyone on this list (i.e. we've all signed the NDA) to be given access to that platform..? N. ----------------------------- http://www.bbc.co.uk This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this. ----------------------------- From mark at hotpy.org Sat Jun 6 20:46:56 2015 From: mark at hotpy.org (Mark Shannon) Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2015 19:46:56 +0100 Subject: [Microbit-Python] Need your GitHub usernames In-Reply-To: <5571A832.4070700@ntoll.org> References: <5571A832.4070700@ntoll.org> Message-ID: <55734020.5030908@hotpy.org> My github username is markshannon On 05/06/15 14:46, Nicholas H.Tollervey wrote: > Hi Folks, > > Blocker no. #1. While I know for certain many of your GitHub usernames, > I can't be certain for others. Can you please reply to this mailing list > with the relevant details. > > Robert Lee (a project manager at the BBC and subscribed to this list) > should, once/if he gets the approval he needs, be able to subscribe you > to the relevant repos. At which point I'll point you at the interesting > stuff we'll need to read/digest. > > Finally, Howard, I notice that the DAL code in the repos I have access > to appears to be out of date. Is there another repos where this has been > forked to..? If so, could we also get access to it please..? > > Many thanks, > > Nicholas. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Microbit mailing list > Microbit at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/microbit > From gautier at wearewizards.io Mon Jun 8 10:19:38 2015 From: gautier at wearewizards.io (Gautier Hayoun) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2015 09:19:38 +0100 Subject: [Microbit-Python] Need your GitHub usernames In-Reply-To: <55734020.5030908@hotpy.org> References: <5571A832.4070700@ntoll.org> <55734020.5030908@hotpy.org> Message-ID: I'm gautier on github On Sat, Jun 6, 2015 at 7:46 PM, Mark Shannon wrote: > My github username is markshannon > > On 05/06/15 14:46, Nicholas H.Tollervey wrote: > >> Hi Folks, >> >> Blocker no. #1. While I know for certain many of your GitHub usernames, >> I can't be certain for others. Can you please reply to this mailing list >> with the relevant details. >> >> Robert Lee (a project manager at the BBC and subscribed to this list) >> should, once/if he gets the approval he needs, be able to subscribe you >> to the relevant repos. At which point I'll point you at the interesting >> stuff we'll need to read/digest. >> >> Finally, Howard, I notice that the DAL code in the repos I have access >> to appears to be out of date. Is there another repos where this has been >> forked to..? If so, could we also get access to it please..? >> >> Many thanks, >> >> Nicholas. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Microbit mailing list >> Microbit at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/microbit >> >> _______________________________________________ > Microbit mailing list > Microbit at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/microbit > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From harry at pythonanywhere.com Mon Jun 8 13:07:16 2015 From: harry at pythonanywhere.com (Harry Percival) Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2015 12:07:16 +0100 Subject: [Microbit-Python] Need your GitHub usernames In-Reply-To: <5571A832.4070700@ntoll.org> References: <5571A832.4070700@ntoll.org> Message-ID: <55757764.7030005@pythonanywhere.com> I'm hjwp :) On 05/06/15 14:46, Nicholas H.Tollervey wrote: > Hi Folks, > > Blocker no. #1. While I know for certain many of your GitHub usernames, > I can't be certain for others. Can you please reply to this mailing list > with the relevant details. > > Robert Lee (a project manager at the BBC and subscribed to this list) > should, once/if he gets the approval he needs, be able to subscribe you > to the relevant repos. At which point I'll point you at the interesting > stuff we'll need to read/digest. > > Finally, Howard, I notice that the DAL code in the repos I have access > to appears to be out of date. Is there another repos where this has been > forked to..? If so, could we also get access to it please..? > > Many thanks, > > Nicholas. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Microbit mailing list > Microbit at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/microbit -- Harry Percival Developer harry at pythonanywhere.com PythonAnywhere - a fully browser-based Python development and hosting environment PythonAnywhere LLP 17a Clerkenwell Road, London EC1M 5RD, UK VAT No.: GB 893 5643 79 Registered in England and Wales as company number OC378414. Registered address: 28 Ely Place, 3rd Floor, London EC1N 6TD, UK -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fuzzyman at voidspace.org.uk Mon Jun 8 16:06:48 2015 From: fuzzyman at voidspace.org.uk (Michael Foord) Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2015 15:06:48 +0100 Subject: [Microbit-Python] Need your GitHub usernames In-Reply-To: <5571A832.4070700@ntoll.org> References: <5571A832.4070700@ntoll.org> Message-ID: <5575A178.2020900@voidspace.org.uk> voidspace On 05/06/15 14:46, Nicholas H.Tollervey wrote: > Hi Folks, > > Blocker no. #1. While I know for certain many of your GitHub usernames, > I can't be certain for others. Can you please reply to this mailing list > with the relevant details. > > Robert Lee (a project manager at the BBC and subscribed to this list) > should, once/if he gets the approval he needs, be able to subscribe you > to the relevant repos. At which point I'll point you at the interesting > stuff we'll need to read/digest. > > Finally, Howard, I notice that the DAL code in the repos I have access > to appears to be out of date. Is there another repos where this has been > forked to..? If so, could we also get access to it please..? > > Many thanks, > > Nicholas. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Microbit mailing list > Microbit at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/microbit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sparks.m at gmail.com Mon Jun 8 17:36:54 2015 From: sparks.m at gmail.com (Michael) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2015 16:36:54 +0100 Subject: [Microbit-Python] Python Subsets, what the microbit prototype does/doesn't do. Message-ID: Hi, tl;dr - background on the prototype and a first cut of what a python subset must support I don't know how much everyone knows about the project, or what everyone understands or doesn't about what is wanted out of this part of the project, and by who/whom/etc :-) So, this email aims to cover at least *enough* about the former - and to ask some questions about the latter - from the perspective of python-subsets :-) On that former point, I assume most people know *enough* about the project to be on the list in the first place but don't have much detail. If that assumption is wrong, sorry! :-) Anyway, to frame the python context below, and glossing over lots, the short version is: - Idea was come up with and tested at events - I was brought on board to build a production-*capable* version from scratch with the intent of testing in schools, and working with partners to take to scale. The key requirement of the former was a robust solid working system. The key requirement of the latter was the ability to swap out *every* part of the implementation with something better/more appropriate for scale. (Conflicting forces, but useful ) (One of the key aspects there was the possibility of even having multiple different hardware implementations...) - As a result that version is now referred to as "the prototype", but is more robust/useful than your usual prototype, and in the case of any python interface worth looking at to see what could be done better, or kept or rejected. - (Once I'd built this, and it'd been tested it in schools, etc, I was pulled back into R&D and I'm currently working on something completely different... So I'm only writing this in a quiet moment...) The prototype site which I developed (along with the prototype hardware/etc) can be found here: * http://bug.iotoy.org/bug/ While it's a prototype, it's a fully functional thing - there's a lot of love been poured into its creation :-) That said, the prototype MUST be taken with a pinch of salt - since the final hardware *is* more capable, and the website/etc for the final hardware is radically different, despite sharing the same vision. (After all, that was one of the aims :-) I'm mainly mentioning it though because it's a complete working version of the sort of thing microbit is :-) Also, there's some practical aspects - many of the programs on there were created by children, and gives an indication of the code complexity that might be used. (the server doesn't hold *any* personal data for children) This means all the programs on there (and their development history - which is retained) are useful data. Anyway, the most complex example I've seen on there is this calculator: http://bug.iotoy.org/bug/program/2454/Calculator Python code gets generated for that (visible in the code tab) - gets compiled to C++ before being compiled using a normal embedded toolchain. That's practical due to the constrained version of python used - which in the case of the prototype is limited to the python that the blocks can create. To allow python as input would require a sufficiently constrained *version* of python, which is tractable for compilation, but was still clearly python. I think that for me is really the starting point. What, if it was missing from python, would mean it wasn't really python any more? What are the lines in the sand? (I've clearly got ideas, but would be interested to hear opinions) For me the starting points are (except for "import this") : (in no particular order, but matches my aspirations for my pet project 'pyxie' :-) * Duck typing / lack of type declarations (but strong types) + Whitespace for indentation + Standard control structures (No else clauses on while/for :) ) - Lists and dictionaries * Easy import/use of external functionality - User functions (and associated scoping rules) - Classes - Namespaces - Exceptions - PEP 255 style generators (ie original and simplest) Things that the prototype doesn't support - due to lack of time - are preceded by a -, rather than a +. * means "sorta" supports - due to sidestepping by targetting C++11'. (I only really include generators because I've built C++ versions of those in the past :-) This obviously leaves lots of things that people use which I would say *could* be left out like... - decorators - nested/dynamic functions, closures, nested/dynamic classes, - object/class monkey patching - Metaclasses - dict based onjects - __getattr__ / __setattr__ (feels very wrong to say that :-) ) ... not because they're not useful, but because they might not be useful in this context. Anyway, that's my tuppenceworth :-) Regarding compiler vs interpreter on the device, I've not seen any specs for the final device - nor how much of those resources are available at run time (I'm not involved in the day to day of the project at the moment), but my understanding is that we're still well below the threshold required for something like pymite or micropython. (If I'm wrong, awesome :-) If the intent was to go down an interpreter route instead, then maybe compiling to a forth-like VM might be an idea? (I suspect this isn't realistic, but worth raising as one way of allowing things like nested functions/etc if people felt that python wouldn't be python without them :) Opinions? Michael. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mail at timgolden.me.uk Mon Jun 8 22:06:23 2015 From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden) Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2015 21:06:23 +0100 Subject: [Microbit-Python] Python Subsets, what the microbit prototype does/doesn't do. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5575F5BF.2030701@timgolden.me.uk> On 08/06/2015 16:36, Michael wrote: > Hi, > > > tl;dr - background on the prototype and a first cut of what a python > subset must support > > I don't know how much everyone knows about the project, or what everyone > understands or doesn't about what is wanted out of this part of the > project, and by who/whom/etc :-) > > So, this email aims to cover at least *enough* about the former - and to > ask some questions about the latter - from the perspective of > python-subsets :-) > > On that former point, I assume most people know /enough/ about the > project to be on the list in the first place but don't have much detail. > If that assumption is wrong, sorry! :-) Actually I'm going to be shameless about my ignorance here. Would you, Michael, or anyone else better suited to do it, mind taking a step back and outlining the overall picture, and then zooming back in to the role you hope this group can play? Perhaps I'm the only person who's only seeing pieces of a jigsaw here, in which case I can only hope that a further explanation will do no worse than give the better informed an excuse to use their Delete key. Thanks very much TJG (PS and Hello, by the way; not sure if you'll remember me from when you were down in London but we did have a couple of conversations about G&S at some point as I'd been involved when at UMIST). From sparks.m at gmail.com Mon Jun 8 22:39:39 2015 From: sparks.m at gmail.com (Michael) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2015 21:39:39 +0100 Subject: [Microbit-Python] Python Subsets, what the microbit prototype does/doesn't do. In-Reply-To: <5575F5BF.2030701@timgolden.me.uk> References: <5575F5BF.2030701@timgolden.me.uk> Message-ID: Hi Tim, Yep, I remember you :) I'll write a brief high level description and post it a little later this evening. (Thanks for correcting my assumption :-) Best, Michael On 8 June 2015 at 21:06, Tim Golden wrote: > On 08/06/2015 16:36, Michael wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> >> tl;dr - background on the prototype and a first cut of what a python >> subset must support >> >> I don't know how much everyone knows about the project, or what everyone >> understands or doesn't about what is wanted out of this part of the >> project, and by who/whom/etc :-) >> >> So, this email aims to cover at least *enough* about the former - and to >> ask some questions about the latter - from the perspective of >> python-subsets :-) >> >> On that former point, I assume most people know /enough/ about the >> project to be on the list in the first place but don't have much detail. >> If that assumption is wrong, sorry! :-) >> > > Actually I'm going to be shameless about my ignorance here. Would you, > Michael, or anyone else better suited to do it, mind taking a step back and > outlining the overall picture, and then zooming back in to the role you > hope this group can play? Perhaps I'm the only person who's only seeing > pieces of a jigsaw here, in which case I can only hope that a further > explanation will do no worse than give the better informed an excuse to use > their Delete key. > > Thanks very much > > TJG > > (PS and Hello, by the way; not sure if you'll remember me from when you > were down in London but we did have a couple of conversations about G&S at > some point as I'd been involved when at UMIST). > _______________________________________________ > Microbit mailing list > Microbit at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/microbit > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sparks.m at gmail.com Mon Jun 15 00:21:30 2015 From: sparks.m at gmail.com (Michael) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2015 23:21:30 +0100 Subject: [Microbit-Python] Python Subsets, what the microbit prototype does/doesn't do. In-Reply-To: References: <5575F5BF.2030701@timgolden.me.uk> Message-ID: Hi, I've not had a chance to do this. I'd point at a blog detailing context, but I'm not allowed to blog about the project. The official background is here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/mediapacks/makeitdigital/micro-bit Unfortunately, I won't be able to attend a session in London in my own time since I have family and local community time/financial commitments precluding any of the dates. I'll let those with an official capacity answer then question. Michael -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ntoll at ntoll.org Tue Jun 16 11:59:56 2015 From: ntoll at ntoll.org (Nicholas H.Tollervey) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2015 10:59:56 +0100 Subject: [Microbit-Python] Status update... Message-ID: <557FF39C.1080101@ntoll.org> Hi, As some of you may know, I've started a new contract and so my relative silence is a result of filling my brain with stuff to do with the new work. I'll be in touch later this week with proposed dates for an initial meet-up. Best wishes, Nicholas. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 473 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From howard.baker at bbc.co.uk Tue Jun 16 12:40:47 2015 From: howard.baker at bbc.co.uk (Howard Baker-IF&L) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2015 10:40:47 +0000 Subject: [Microbit-Python] Status update... In-Reply-To: <557FF39C.1080101@ntoll.org> References: <557FF39C.1080101@ntoll.org> Message-ID: Ok -- thanks for the update. Good luck :) Howard -----Original Message----- From: Microbit [mailto:microbit-bounces+howard.baker=bbc.co.uk at python.org] On Behalf Of Nicholas H.Tollervey Sent: 16 June 2015 11:00 To: microbit at python.org Subject: [Microbit-Python] Status update... Hi, As some of you may know, I've started a new contract and so my relative silence is a result of filling my brain with stuff to do with the new work. I'll be in touch later this week with proposed dates for an initial meet-up. Best wishes, Nicholas. ----------------------------- http://www.bbc.co.uk This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this. ----------------------------- From sparks.m at gmail.com Tue Jun 16 13:47:01 2015 From: sparks.m at gmail.com (Michael) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2015 12:47:01 +0100 Subject: [Microbit-Python] Status update... In-Reply-To: <557FF39C.1080101@ntoll.org> References: <557FF39C.1080101@ntoll.org> Message-ID: For info, nuitka -- a python to C++ compiler -- seems pretty mature and useful for lots of things, BUT offloads the bulk of its work to libpython, which means the binaries simply won't work in an embedded environment (fine for anywhere else though). Also, far far too large to fit on any teeny device. That said, it's pretty neat. I've tried it with a few things, and it's handled things I've thrown at it (like a threaded-actor based qt video video player). I've not seen the large improvements in runtime that are claimed though - probably trying the wrong sort of code. (if you did it'd be interesting as an optimisation tool) That could be due to the startup/shutdown process though, a filewatching/batch mode thing *might* get significant improvements. Only mention really because it could crop up as an option, and while it's not suitable for targetting micro-controllers it might be useful... Michael. On 16 June 2015 at 10:59, Nicholas H.Tollervey wrote: > Hi, > > As some of you may know, I've started a new contract and so my relative > silence is a result of filling my brain with stuff to do with the new work. > > I'll be in touch later this week with proposed dates for an initial > meet-up. > > Best wishes, > > Nicholas. > > > _______________________________________________ > Microbit mailing list > Microbit at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/microbit > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ntoll at ntoll.org Thu Jun 25 14:19:04 2015 From: ntoll at ntoll.org (Nicholas H.Tollervey) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2015 13:19:04 +0100 Subject: [Microbit-Python] A date for your diaries Message-ID: <558BF1B8.4040804@ntoll.org> Hi Folks, Apologies I've been quiet about MicroBit for a while - I've just started a new contract (I'm building a learning management system for Harvard Medical School with some Boston based buddies and have been "on-boarding"). We need to get going! Many thanks to those of you who have already put a mark in the Doodle poll (here, for those of you who haven't: http://doodle.com/e75bmkskgc6gm6mt). Given the "asap" nature of the project and availability of people I'd like to propose we get together on Sunday 5th July from mid morning onwards (exact times TBC). We'll be spending the day recreating this Apollo 13 scene - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cYzkyXp0jg - but with a Python shaped box stuffed into a Microsoft TouchDevelop shaped hole. I'll flesh out exactly what the nature of the problem is in a follow up email. Howard, we'll need a room in London, pizza and refreshments (coffee, tea, soft drinks)! Is there anything I can do to make this happen or am I simply relying on you for this? Please can you reply to this email to confirm that you're still available and willing on that date! Yours Pythonically, Nicholas. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 473 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From ntoll at ntoll.org Thu Jun 25 14:05:09 2015 From: ntoll at ntoll.org (Nicholas H.Tollervey) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2015 13:05:09 +0100 Subject: [Microbit-Python] A date for your diaries Message-ID: <558BEE75.8010703@ntoll.org> Hi Folks, Apologies I've been quiet about MicroBit for a while - I've just started a new contract (I'm building a learning management system for Harvard Medical School with some Boston based buddies and have been "on-boarding"). We need to get going! Many thanks to those of you who have already put a mark in the Doodle poll (here, for those of you who haven't: http://doodle.com/e75bmkskgc6gm6mt). Given the "asap" nature of the project and availability of people I'd like to propose we get together on Sunday 5th July from mid morning onwards (exact times TBC). We'll be spending the day recreating this Apollo 13 scene - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cYzkyXp0jg - but with a Python shaped box stuffed into a Microsoft TouchDevelop shaped hole. I'll flesh out exactly what the nature of the problem is in a follow up email. Howard, we'll need a room in London, pizza and refreshments (coffee, tea, soft drinks)! Is there anything I can do to make this happen or am I simply relying on you for this? Please can you reply to this email to confirm that you're still available and willing on that date! Yours Pythonically, Nicholas. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 473 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From giles at pythonanywhere.com Thu Jun 25 14:52:09 2015 From: giles at pythonanywhere.com (Giles Thomas) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2015 13:52:09 +0100 Subject: [Microbit-Python] A date for your diaries In-Reply-To: <558BF1B8.4040804@ntoll.org> References: <558BF1B8.4040804@ntoll.org> Message-ID: <558BF979.600@pythonanywhere.com> Great! I'll be there. On 25/06/15 13:19, Nicholas H.Tollervey wrote: > Hi Folks, > > Apologies I've been quiet about MicroBit for a while - I've just started > a new contract (I'm building a learning management system for Harvard > Medical School with some Boston based buddies and have been "on-boarding"). > > We need to get going! > > Many thanks to those of you who have already put a mark in the Doodle > poll (here, for those of you who haven't: > http://doodle.com/e75bmkskgc6gm6mt). > > Given the "asap" nature of the project and availability of people I'd > like to propose we get together on Sunday 5th July from mid morning > onwards (exact times TBC). > > We'll be spending the day recreating this Apollo 13 scene - > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cYzkyXp0jg - but with a Python shaped > box stuffed into a Microsoft TouchDevelop shaped hole. I'll flesh out > exactly what the nature of the problem is in a follow up email. > > Howard, we'll need a room in London, pizza and refreshments (coffee, > tea, soft drinks)! Is there anything I can do to make this happen or am > I simply relying on you for this? > > Please can you reply to this email to confirm that you're still > available and willing on that date! > > Yours Pythonically, > > Nicholas. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Microbit mailing list > Microbit at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/microbit -- Giles Thomas PythonAnywhere: Develop and host Python from your browser A product from PythonAnywhere LLP 17a Clerkenwell Road, London EC1M 5RD, UK VAT No.: GB 893 5643 79 Registered in England and Wales as company number OC378414. Registered address: 28 Ely Place, 3rd Floor, London EC1N 6TD, UK -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sparks.m at gmail.com Thu Jun 25 15:13:34 2015 From: sparks.m at gmail.com (Michael) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2015 14:13:34 +0100 Subject: [Microbit-Python] A date for your diaries In-Reply-To: <558BEE75.8010703@ntoll.org> References: <558BEE75.8010703@ntoll.org> Message-ID: I'll be at cub camp that weekend, and If I'm not there, it doesn't happen - and so I'm unavailable that weekend. (Locating things in london makes it pretty much right out for me too, sadly - cost overhead is too high) Michael On 25 June 2015 at 13:05, Nicholas H.Tollervey wrote: > Hi Folks, > > Apologies I've been quiet about MicroBit for a while - I've just started > a new contract (I'm building a learning management system for Harvard > Medical School with some Boston based buddies and have been "on-boarding"). > > We need to get going! > > Many thanks to those of you who have already put a mark in the Doodle > poll (here, for those of you who haven't: > http://doodle.com/e75bmkskgc6gm6mt). > > Given the "asap" nature of the project and availability of people I'd > like to propose we get together on Sunday 5th July from mid morning > onwards (exact times TBC). > > We'll be spending the day recreating this Apollo 13 scene - > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cYzkyXp0jg - but with a Python shaped > box stuffed into a Microsoft TouchDevelop shaped hole. I'll flesh out > exactly what the nature of the problem is in a follow up email. > > Howard, we'll need a room in London, pizza and refreshments (coffee, > tea, soft drinks)! Is there anything I can do to make this happen or am > I simply relying on you for this? > > Please can you reply to this email to confirm that you're still > available and willing on that date! > > Yours Pythonically, > > Nicholas. > > > _______________________________________________ > Microbit mailing list > Microbit at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/microbit > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sparks.m at gmail.com Thu Jun 25 15:32:38 2015 From: sparks.m at gmail.com (Michael) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2015 14:32:38 +0100 Subject: [Microbit-Python] Need your GitHub usernames In-Reply-To: References: <5571A832.4070700@ntoll.org> Message-ID: Incidentally, for reference, this.... On 5 June 2015 at 15:57, Michael wrote: > Further to my prior question as to how much I can share of the reference > implementation, it appears I can share all of it, since a snapshot is in > here: > > https://github.com/bbc/microbit-extras/tree/master/refimpl > > That looks like an *OLD* snapshot though, so I'll fix that first - no > point working off a version that's old. (The diff just for the compiler is > about 2000 lines) > On 5 June 2015 at 18:26, Michael wrote: > Looks like my work github id only has read access at the moment to this > repository, so I can't push the up to date version of the prototype's > codebase into /refimpl > ... didn't happen because my github ids weren't added. (Busy I guess? :-) ) The work one for some reason has limited read access, even though I'm pretty sure that's unintentional, home one - the one I'd have to use for this (apparently) - just gets a 404 not found. Michael -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From naomi.ceder at gmail.com Thu Jun 25 16:27:02 2015 From: naomi.ceder at gmail.com (Naomi Ceder) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2015 15:27:02 +0100 Subject: [Microbit-Python] A date for your diaries In-Reply-To: <558BF979.600@pythonanywhere.com> References: <558BF1B8.4040804@ntoll.org> <558BF979.600@pythonanywhere.com> Message-ID: I'm planning to be there. Cheers, Naomi On 25 June 2015 at 13:52, Giles Thomas wrote: > Great! I'll be there. > > > On 25/06/15 13:19, Nicholas H.Tollervey wrote: > > Hi Folks, > > Apologies I've been quiet about MicroBit for a while - I've just started > a new contract (I'm building a learning management system for Harvard > Medical School with some Boston based buddies and have been "on-boarding"). > > We need to get going! > > Many thanks to those of you who have already put a mark in the Doodle > poll (here, for those of you who haven't:http://doodle.com/e75bmkskgc6gm6mt). > > Given the "asap" nature of the project and availability of people I'd > like to propose we get together on Sunday 5th July from mid morning > onwards (exact times TBC). > > We'll be spending the day recreating this Apollo 13 scene -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cYzkyXp0jg - but with a Python shaped > box stuffed into a Microsoft TouchDevelop shaped hole. I'll flesh out > exactly what the nature of the problem is in a follow up email. > > Howard, we'll need a room in London, pizza and refreshments (coffee, > tea, soft drinks)! Is there anything I can do to make this happen or am > I simply relying on you for this? > > Please can you reply to this email to confirm that you're still > available and willing on that date! > > Yours Pythonically, > > Nicholas. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Microbit mailing listMicrobit at python.orghttps://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/microbit > > > -- > Giles Thomas > > PythonAnywhere: Develop and host Python from your browser > > A product from PythonAnywhere LLP > 17a Clerkenwell Road, London EC1M 5RD, UK > VAT No.: GB 893 5643 79 > Registered in England and Wales as company number OC378414. > Registered address: 28 Ely Place, 3rd Floor, London EC1N 6TD, UK > > > _______________________________________________ > Microbit mailing list > Microbit at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/microbit > > -- Naomi Ceder https://plus.google.com/u/0/111396744045017339164/about -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ntoll at ntoll.org Mon Jun 29 13:24:28 2015 From: ntoll at ntoll.org (Nicholas H.Tollervey) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2015 12:24:28 +0100 Subject: [Microbit-Python] NEEDS ACTION - Please confirm!!! Message-ID: <55912AEC.6070000@ntoll.org> Hi, Just looking at my post-weekend inbox. Only two people have confirmed they can make Sunday's BBC hack. IIRC 7 people were marked down that they could make it. It'd really be super-helpful if you could confirm your attendance. Best wishes, Nicholas. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 473 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From tom at wearewizards.io Mon Jun 29 13:31:24 2015 From: tom at wearewizards.io (Tom Hunger) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2015 12:31:24 +0100 Subject: [Microbit-Python] NEEDS ACTION - Please confirm!!! In-Reply-To: <55912AEC.6070000@ntoll.org> References: <55912AEC.6070000@ntoll.org> Message-ID: I will be there on the 5th of July. I'm more confused than ever about what's going on but I'm looking forward to helping with specific problems :) On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 12:24 PM, Nicholas H.Tollervey wrote: > Hi, > > Just looking at my post-weekend inbox. Only two people have confirmed > they can make Sunday's BBC hack. IIRC 7 people were marked down that > they could make it. > > It'd really be super-helpful if you could confirm your attendance. > > Best wishes, > > Nicholas. > > > _______________________________________________ > Microbit mailing list > Microbit at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/microbit > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From harry at pythonanywhere.com Mon Jun 29 13:48:46 2015 From: harry at pythonanywhere.com (Harry Percival) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2015 12:48:46 +0100 Subject: [Microbit-Python] NEEDS ACTION - Please confirm!!! In-Reply-To: References: <55912AEC.6070000@ntoll.org> Message-ID: <5591309E.10607@pythonanywhere.com> I've got to be at a popup show at 12 (I had thought it was going to be an evening gig), so probably not worth my attending for one hour, sadly :/ How much of a problem is it if Michael, the author of the C wrapper thingie, can't attend? On 29/06/15 12:31, Tom Hunger wrote: > I will be there on the 5th of July. I'm more confused than ever about > what's going on but I'm looking forward to helping with specific > problems :) > > On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 12:24 PM, Nicholas H.Tollervey > > wrote: > > Hi, > > Just looking at my post-weekend inbox. Only two people have confirmed > they can make Sunday's BBC hack. IIRC 7 people were marked down that > they could make it. > > It'd really be super-helpful if you could confirm your attendance. > > Best wishes, > > Nicholas. > > > _______________________________________________ > Microbit mailing list > Microbit at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/microbit > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Microbit mailing list > Microbit at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/microbit -- Harry Percival Developer harry at pythonanywhere.com PythonAnywhere - a fully browser-based Python development and hosting environment PythonAnywhere LLP 17a Clerkenwell Road, London EC1M 5RD, UK VAT No.: GB 893 5643 79 Registered in England and Wales as company number OC378414. Registered address: 28 Ely Place, 3rd Floor, London EC1N 6TD, UK -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mail at timgolden.me.uk Mon Jun 29 13:47:05 2015 From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2015 12:47:05 +0100 Subject: [Microbit-Python] NEEDS ACTION - Please confirm!!! In-Reply-To: <55912AEC.6070000@ntoll.org> References: <55912AEC.6070000@ntoll.org> Message-ID: <55913039.5030500@timgolden.me.uk> I'm up for it. From ntoll at ntoll.org Mon Jun 29 13:50:41 2015 From: ntoll at ntoll.org (Nicholas H.Tollervey) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2015 12:50:41 +0100 Subject: [Microbit-Python] NEEDS ACTION - Please confirm!!! In-Reply-To: <5591309E.10607@pythonanywhere.com> References: <55912AEC.6070000@ntoll.org> <5591309E.10607@pythonanywhere.com> Message-ID: <55913111.1070804@ntoll.org> On 29/06/15 12:48, Harry Percival wrote: > How much of a problem is it if Michael, the author of the C wrapper > thingie, can't attend? > Not too much of a problem since much of what we'll be looking at is likely to be vaguely web based. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 473 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From sparks.m at gmail.com Mon Jun 29 15:26:08 2015 From: sparks.m at gmail.com (Michael) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2015 14:26:08 +0100 Subject: [Microbit-Python] NEEDS ACTION - Please confirm!!! In-Reply-To: <5591309E.10607@pythonanywhere.com> References: <55912AEC.6070000@ntoll.org> <5591309E.10607@pythonanywhere.com> Message-ID: Harry, To echo Nick's comment - I would assume that it's not a big deal. My understanding is that the prototype system has been used to inspire the implementation of the production system, not as a basis. Indeed, while I'm interested in having a python to C++ compiler myself (for use with cubs/scouts), I started a complete ground up re-write of that on my own time using my own resources a couple of months ago, and that takes a better approach than the approach I took for the prototype. (which was very time constrained) That rebuild BTW is here: https://pypi.python.org/pypi/pyxie I'd hope you don't need that, but if you do, it's there. I've not seen the touchdevelop/C++/ARM stack though, and don't have a production device so I can't really comment beyond that. As I say though I'd hope it'd not be a problem if I can't be there. Touch develop is itself (now) open source though, and you can find that here: - https://github.com/Microsoft/TouchDevelop My *impression* is that if you do need to do anything "compiler-y", that what you'd want to do is to parse the python to the AST in here: - https://github.com/Microsoft/TouchDevelop/tree/master/ast And then let the touch develop stack handle the details. There's a suggestion of which parts of python to support in the specification I wrote as well, which in the case of the prototype was based on the parts I knew that (given enough time) I knew I could compile. All that said, don't take anything I've said here as "correct", because I don't have current information. Best Regards, Michael On 29 June 2015 at 12:48, Harry Percival wrote: > I've got to be at a popup show at 12 (I had thought it was going to be an > evening gig), so probably not worth my attending for one hour, sadly :/ > > How much of a problem is it if Michael, the author of the C wrapper > thingie, can't attend? > > > On 29/06/15 12:31, Tom Hunger wrote: > > I will be there on the 5th of July. I'm more confused than ever about > what's going on but I'm looking forward to helping with specific problems :) > > On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 12:24 PM, Nicholas H.Tollervey > wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Just looking at my post-weekend inbox. Only two people have confirmed >> they can make Sunday's BBC hack. IIRC 7 people were marked down that >> they could make it. >> >> It'd really be super-helpful if you could confirm your attendance. >> >> Best wishes, >> >> Nicholas. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Microbit mailing list >> Microbit at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/microbit >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Microbit mailing listMicrobit at python.orghttps://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/microbit > > > -- > Harry Percival > Developerharry at pythonanywhere.com > > PythonAnywhere - a fully browser-based Python development and hosting environment > > PythonAnywhere LLP > 17a Clerkenwell Road, London EC1M 5RD, UK > VAT No.: GB 893 5643 79 > Registered in England and Wales as company number OC378414. > Registered address: 28 Ely Place, 3rd Floor, London EC1N 6TD, UK > > > _______________________________________________ > Microbit mailing list > Microbit at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/microbit > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From damien.p.george at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 01:12:35 2015 From: damien.p.george at gmail.com (Damien George) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2015 00:12:35 +0100 Subject: [Microbit-Python] NEEDS ACTION - Please confirm!!! In-Reply-To: <55912AEC.6070000@ntoll.org> References: <55912AEC.6070000@ntoll.org> Message-ID: Yes, I can still make it on Sunday 5th. On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 12:24 PM, Nicholas H.Tollervey wrote: > Hi, > > Just looking at my post-weekend inbox. Only two people have confirmed > they can make Sunday's BBC hack. IIRC 7 people were marked down that > they could make it. > > It'd really be super-helpful if you could confirm your attendance. > > Best wishes, > > Nicholas. > > > _______________________________________________ > Microbit mailing list > Microbit at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/microbit > From ntoll at ntoll.org Tue Jun 30 08:35:01 2015 From: ntoll at ntoll.org (Nicholas H.Tollervey) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2015 07:35:01 +0100 Subject: [Microbit-Python] TouchDevelop playtime (what we'll be hacking on Sunday) Message-ID: <55923895.3050903@ntoll.org> Hi, To shed more light on things... As you know, the BBC micro:bit is a small device for kids to program. The PSF is an "education" partner with the BBC on this project. Originally the BBC had someone lined up to "do Python" for the micro:bit but this apparently fell through. Ergo they have asked the Python community for help to get Python working with the device. To this end *three* potential solutions have presented themselves: 1) MicroPython - http://micropython.org (from Damien, who is on this list and coming over on Sunday) - this is likely to result in core Python (without standard lib) running on the device and you'll be able to flash the device with short Python scripts. If Damien can pull it off it'll be an amazing achievement worthy of lots of free beer at PyCon UK. 2) Pyxie - https://pypi.python.org/pypi/pyxie (from Michael, who is also on this list but can't attend on Sunday) - this is a Python(ish) to C++ compiler toolchain that could link against some sort of device abstraction library that gets compiled to the .hex file flashed onto the device. Michael is the mastermind who created the prototype device and infrastructure for the BBC. Since then, as far as I can tell, pretty much all the things have changed (both in terms of hardware and software). 3) TouchDevelop - from Microsoft (Howard, also on this list and the technical lead for the BBC, will tell you that this is the "blessed" programming platform that will appear in all the BBC's messaging / campaigns). Touch develop is a browser based development environment into which you can embed different editors. The primary focus of Sunday will be looking at 3. Basically, we need to answer a very simple question: What is needed to implement a Python(ish) editor in TouchDevelop for the MicroBit? I'll ping over more details about location / times and technical details later this week (I have a hard deadline for some work on Wednesday afternoon which is why I've been up since 5am clearing my email so I have as much of the day free to concentrate on work that actually pays me money). I hope Damien brings along the PSF's actual micro:bit he's been testing MicroPython on. It's a cute device. I personally guarantee you'll instantly fall in love with it. ;-) In the meantime, the following verbatim 19 point recipe from the BBC for using TouchDevelop gives you access to the platform so you can have a look around and get a sense of what it is we're looking at here: Using GOOGLE CHROME ONLY: 1) Go to https://stage.microbit.co.uk/home 2) Login with UN: microbit PW: bitbug42 3) Go to "My Scripts" in the top right hand corner, then go to "Sign In" 4) Click "I'm an Adult" 5) Tick the box to except (sic) the T&C's 6) Login with one of the 3rd party choices. 7) Enter the code - jnhrsrcsui 8) Go to "Create Code" in the top navigation. 9) Choose an Editor and select "New Project". 10) Enter a name for your program. 11) Write a script. (!) 12) To see your program run in the simulator click on "Run". 13) If you want to load it on your board, click on "Compile". 14) Wait until the program has downloaded (this can take around 30 seconds), you should see a .hex file download in the bottom left of the web browser. 15) Plug you micro:bit into the computer via the USB (only power your micro:bit with one source, either the USB or the battery, NEVER BOTH). 16) Open up a "My Computer" window and double click on the micro:bit. 17) Drag and drop your program from downloaded files on to the micro:bit and it will automatically copy. 18) Once your program has been successfully flashed on the micro:bit, it will eject automatically like a USB. 19) Unplug the USB and plug it back in again and you will see your new program run on the board - Success! I'm in the process of collating docs so we can easily set up working development environments to hack on TouchDevelop on Sunday. I'm still trying to track down the source code so we can actually run the platform locally and start to figure out the best course of action. Like I said, more details later this week when I have more time to play with. Best wishes, Nicholas. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 473 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From mail at timgolden.me.uk Tue Jun 30 09:17:30 2015 From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2015 08:17:30 +0100 Subject: [Microbit-Python] TouchDevelop playtime (what we'll be hacking on Sunday) In-Reply-To: <55923895.3050903@ntoll.org> References: <55923895.3050903@ntoll.org> Message-ID: <5592428A.1020505@timgolden.me.uk> On 30/06/2015 07:35, Nicholas H.Tollervey wrote: > Hi, > > To shed more light on things... [... snip much light-shedding ...] Thanks very much, Nicholas. It's much clearer now what we're looking at. (Although I promise to be bewildered on Sunday). TJG From ntoll at ntoll.org Tue Jun 30 15:20:17 2015 From: ntoll at ntoll.org (Nicholas H.Tollervey) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2015 14:20:17 +0100 Subject: [Microbit-Python] MicroBit hack Sunday venue details Message-ID: <55929791.8010303@ntoll.org> Hi Folks, Due to various bureaucratic reasons we won't be having our hack day at the BBC. However, I have found an alternative venue that's just as glamorous in the form of the ever awesome Fry-IT (in Shoreditch). Their location / address details can be found on this page: http://www.fry-it.com/contact-us Those of you who have been to the Python Code Dojo will know it well. ;-) I'll make sure I stick a sign on the door so it's easy to spot the door. Kick off is at 10am and we'll keep going until we stop. ;-) I'm sorry to say that there was push-back from the BBC about providing food and refreshments so I guess we'll have to find something ourselves. Finally, in the coming days I'll be getting you all signed up to the GitHub repos we'll need to explore. Best wishes, Nicholas. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 473 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: