[Microbit-Python] The BBC reveal the device to the media

[Nicholas H.Tollervey]

Hi David,

Brief comments in-line below... ;-)

On 08/07/15 08:05, David Whale wrote:
> Hi Nicholas,
> 
> I'm not ignoring you lot, just been *very* busy these last few days,
> from all angles, and will be still for a week or so, sorry!
> 

No problem. I know exactly how you feel. This week I'm up to my eyes in
all sorts of "real" work.

> I'm thinking through the proposals to think what I could add to the
> already excellent comments and observations made by others. 
> 

I'm all ears! ;-)

> I think, still, I'm really drawn to the power of having a blocks like
> interface with a "show code" button that shows the python, to provide a
> smooth and natural transition for coders from a visual paradigm to a
> text paradigm - think of it as the python equivalent of the web "view
> source" where people look behind the scenes on a web page, work out how
> it works, start hacking their own html, get into a bit of javascript,
> get into a bit of php, and many get into computing that way. 
> 
> There is a subtle but important difference between a "show-code" option
> (Michael's origional blockly) and a "convert forwards only" option
> (blocks to touch develop one way conversion) - both with their own
> benefits and pitfalls and differences.
>

Totally understand. But remember, because of the whitespace rules -
Python is a sort of visual language. It's just that it's expressed via
text rather than blocks.

> 
> I also need to personally think through whether two pages of code on a
> 128/256K device ("twice the size of game of life") without the bluetooth
> connectivity, gives enough opportunity for doing useful and engaging
> things with that amount of code. I'm not sure about that one yet, to be
> honest. It seems we've burnt a large amount of code space to get a tiny
> amount of user app space. One way to frame this might be to roughly
> calculate what percentage of flash is the interpreter and runtime, and
> what percentage is user code - how does this compare to the existing
> blocks or touch develop solutions (hard to compare as code density might
> differ significantly). But if it's 95%/5%, interpreter/user app, I'm
> really not sure about that. Be nice to have a ball park figure on the
> split at present. Is that all interpreter, or is it libraries too - I''m
> guessing it's not possible to strip unused libraries due to the dynamic
> nature of python?
> 

Even without BLE the device is compelling and exciting to use via
MicroPython. As for the questions about memory and implementation
details you'll have to ask Damien (also on this list).

> 
> Could we show the python experience to a bunch of 11 year olds and a
> bunch of school teachers, perhaps, and see what they think of it - that
> is the target audience, after all?
> 

That's pretty much the first thing on my list of things to do. Having
said that, you and I both know from experience that "proper" Python is
both engaging and enojyed by kids and teachers alike. We see this every
year at PyCon UK's teachers' and kids' tracks with children as young as 7.

> 
> There's also *something* there that Michael mentioned about the
> contained experience of working inside the ecosystem of a website with
> all the interactions and sharing that happens, compared to an offline
> editor with an independent community on a separate page - I've not quite
> thought through both sides of that yet properly. There definitely is
> something about the immersive experience of the community and tutorials
> and examples and editor all being in one place, that I hadn't really
> seen before this BBC project - there's a "thing" there I'm trying to
> form some view on, but it does feel very exciting when you use it.
> 

Perhaps I gave the wrong idea... I'm not suggesting there's a Python
thing separately on the side totally separate from microbit.co.uk and
TouchDevelop.

Rather, that the Python community will need a place they "own" where
they can contribute in a space controlled by the community (this is an
important consideration for many). This space would *complement* the
microbit.co.uk offering.

Furthermore, I'd love there to be MicroPython tutorials, videos and
links to resources on the main website. In fact, I think it essential
that there is such a thing if only to avoid the dangers of a monoculture
ecosystem.

Having alternatives is a good thing. It promotes exploration and a
cosmopolitan outlook.

Let a thousand flowers bloom (and all that). ;-)

> The TouchDevelop shared online library feature is a stroke of genius
> that I hadn't realised until I experienced it first hand this week -
> perhaps an option to "import" and it does a live search for community
> contributed libraries and just includes them for use like the
> TouchDevelop experience does? Just a thought. The immutable published
> library concept gives educators in particular a way to focus learners on
> the important learning at the top of the app, whilst giving them
> drill-down to the detail if they want it - I've learnt more about
> TouchDevelop by clicking through the library detail than I have by
> reading any documentation, to be honest.
> 

Exactly. It would be daft to argue against code sharing. There are many
ways to make this work - and TouchDevelop is but one.

> There is also that thing about teachers have spent a couple of years
> up-skilling in Python, and something new and different is coming along.
> It would be good to provide a range of directions both in and out of the
> experience for learners and teachers, so they both be attracted to it,
> and drawn onwards to the next thing, in new and interesting ways. Python
> could be as much a "draw in" to the experience, as well as a "draw out
> and onwards" to bigger systems like Raspberry Pi, for example.
> 

Amen brother! Great minds think alike (or fools seldom differ). ;-)

> Still thinking, but these are my initial thoughts for now. Sorry to be
> less than helpful at this stage.
> 

These are incredibly helpful comments - keep them coming. All feedback
both positive and negative is most welcome!

Best wishes,

Nicholas.

> David,
> 
> 
> ___________________________________________________________
> David Whale, B.Sc (Hons), MIET
> *Software Engineer and IET Schools Liaison Officer, Essex*
> 
> email:  dwhale at theiet.org <mailto:dwhale at theiet.org>
> twitter: @whaleygeek
> blog:  blog.whaleygeek.co.uk <http://blog.whaleygeek.co.uk>
> 
> Co-author of the new book "Adventures in Minecraft"
> <http://amzn.to/ZGfxZG> - lets get kids coding!
> 
> 
> On 7 July 2015 at 14:46, Nicholas H.Tollervey <ntoll at ntoll.org
> <mailto:ntoll at ntoll.org>> wrote:
> 
>     On 07/07/15 14:20, David Whale wrote:
>     > Tony hall mentioned python several times and so did dara o brien at the
>     > public launch today.
>     >
> 
>     Great stuff! I hope it went well.
> 
>     David, would be interesting to get your perspective on the Python work
>     we're doing.
> 
>     *Everyone* - David is the point man for the Institution of Engineering
>     and Technology (who are also a BBC partner). David also writes awesome
>     books on Minecraft and Python programming.
> 
>     :-)
> 
>     N.
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
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