From ianb@colorstudy.com Sat Apr 5 20:58:02 2003 From: ianb@colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking) Date: 05 Apr 2003 14:58:02 -0600 Subject: [meta-sig] Proposal: Web-SIG In-Reply-To: <1049057153.689.41.camel@lothlorien> References: <1049057153.689.41.camel@lothlorien> Message-ID: <1049576282.6025.91.camel@lothlorien> Except for Guido, no one has responded to this. Thoughts? Opinions? Implicit consent? What can I do to move this forward? On Sun, 2003-03-30 at 14:45, Ian Bicking wrote: > After writing the Web Framework Shootout paper for PyCon, it seems clear > to me there's much of duplication of effort among the various packages > (the paper is available at http://colorstudy.com/web-framework/ for the > curious, though it only indirectly addresses the problems). > > Following discussions from PyCon, I would like to bring together some of > the respective developers of these frameworks and related libraries to > cooperate on such things as: installation and basic infrastructure, > sharing and developing web-related modules that are reusable among the > frameworks, better sharing templating languages and interfaces, and > advertisement/promotion of Python as a web platform, to name a few > ideas. > > After creation of the SIG, I would plan to specifically invite by email > the developers who might be interested in this (mostly developers of the > web-based tools, rather than applications), as well as making the > standard set of announcements. > > > Mission Statement: > The Python Web SIG is to help the developers of Python web > infrastructure to collaborate and cooperate, bridging their > respective communities, promoting and refining Python as a > general-purpose web development language. > > Coordinator: Ian Bicking > > Conclusion: October 2003 (six months, extending of course if the mailing > list continues to be a successful means of communication) > > Deliverables: > Maintenance of the WebProgramming Wiki page, currently a scattered > source of information about Python web programming, but still the > best we have. > > More code-sharing among similar projects. > > Ideally, greater code-reuse inside the libraries and frameworks > themselves (for instance, sharing application servers, form > processors, etc). > > A clear, canonical document/site presenting Python as a web > development platform. > > Scope: > This SIG is *not* intended to be a place for end-users of various > web software to discuss their particular problems, but as a place to > discuss the advancement of Python web programming as a whole. > > "Advancement" includes both promotion, as well as technical > advancement. > > From lekishvili@python.qartu.com Mon Apr 7 01:09:32 2003 From: lekishvili@python.qartu.com (Giorgi Lekishvili) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 02:09:32 +0200 Subject: [meta-sig] web-sig Message-ID: <000c01c2fc99$fad58bd0$72c19dd5@killer> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C2FCAA.BA588B00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi! I think that to establish this sig is an excellent idea; moreover, my = opinion is that any further advance of Python will be determined in a = high extent by how uniform and convenient is web-programming in Python. We need a *standard* web-programming framework. I am willing to do whatever I can for this. Giorgi ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C2FCAA.BA588B00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi!

I think that to establish this sig is = an excellent=20 idea; moreover, my opinion is that any further advance of Python will be = determined in a high extent by how uniform and convenient is = web-programming in=20 Python.

We need a *standard* web-programming=20 framework.

I am willing to do whatever I can for=20 this.

Giorgi

------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C2FCAA.BA588B00-- From mclay@python.net Sun Apr 6 22:39:48 2003 From: mclay@python.net (Michael McLay) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 16:39:48 -0500 Subject: [meta-sig] web-sig In-Reply-To: <000c01c2fc99$fad58bd0$72c19dd5@killer> References: <000c01c2fc99$fad58bd0$72c19dd5@killer> Message-ID: <200304061739.24400.mclay@nist.gov> On Sunday 06 April 2003 08:09 pm, Giorgi Lekishvili wrote: > Hi! > > I think that to establish this sig is an excellent idea; moreover, my > opinion is that any further advance of Python will be determined in a high > extent by how uniform and convenient is web-programming in Python. We need > a *standard* web-programming framework. > > I am willing to do whatever I can for this. I am also in favor of developing uniformity in programming interfaces, but a push to standardize on an interface will likely lead to tension between uniformity and creativity. Perhaps the use of sprints can help reduce the splintering effect of independently developed solutions. It seems somewhat ironic that Python is so internally consistent as a language, yet it is used to create interfaces to other technology that are so inconsistent. Another obvious area were too much of a good thing seems to be frustrating users is the plethora of choices for a GUI interface. Perhaps an official PSF endorsement of one or two APIs would help reduce the chaos without shutting down the ability of users to innovate. From ianb@colorstudy.com Sun Apr 6 22:52:43 2003 From: ianb@colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking) Date: 06 Apr 2003 16:52:43 -0500 Subject: [meta-sig] web-sig In-Reply-To: <200304061739.24400.mclay@nist.gov> References: <000c01c2fc99$fad58bd0$72c19dd5@killer> <200304061739.24400.mclay@nist.gov> Message-ID: <1049665963.650.100.camel@lothlorien> On Sun, 2003-04-06 at 16:39, Michael McLay wrote: > I am also in favor of developing uniformity in programming interfaces, but a > push to standardize on an interface will likely lead to tension between > uniformity and creativity. Perhaps the use of sprints can help reduce the > splintering effect of independently developed solutions. It seems somewhat > ironic that Python is so internally consistent as a language, yet it is used > to create interfaces to other technology that are so inconsistent. I'd like to start work with places where I think we can reach consensus -- things like installation, some parts of the configuration, integration with Apache, etc. There's diversity there, but only because everyone has to implement this stuff first, and they all did it slightly differently. I'd like a situation where you can install one "python web" package, and then people can use whatever framework ontop of that, where it's very easy to set up the framework. There's more (feasable) problems to be solved after that, but that's a good starting point. Ian From janssen@parc.com Tue Apr 8 01:36:11 2003 From: janssen@parc.com (Bill Janssen) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 17:36:11 PDT Subject: [meta-sig] Proposal: Web-SIG In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 05 Apr 2003 12:58:02 PST." <1049576282.6025.91.camel@lothlorien> Message-ID: <03Apr7.173613pdt."58611"@synergy1.parc.xerox.com> Ian, I think it's a much-needed idea. I've been writing an application on top of Medusa, and I'm mildly shocked at the state of Python's Web libraries (which, to be fair, were contributed by various people at various times -- most of those times being in the past). No CSS parser? Unbelievable. No way in the libraries (say, httplib) to pass multipart/form-data arguments? Intriguing. I think one of the deliverables should be a roadmap for updating the standard libraries related to the Web to bring them in line with modern Web practice, and a plan for a mechanism to keep them up-to-date. Bill From sdrees@ieee.org Tue Apr 8 10:30:34 2003 From: sdrees@ieee.org (Stefan Drees) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:30:34 +0200 Subject: [meta-sig] Proposal: Web-SIG In-Reply-To: <03Apr7.173613pdt."58611"@synergy1.parc.xerox.com>; from janssen@parc.com on Mon, Apr 07, 2003 at 05:36:11PM -0700 References: <1049576282.6025.91.camel@lothlorien> <03Apr7.173613pdt."58611"@synergy1.parc.xerox.com> Message-ID: <20030408113034.A1870@sdrees2.de> Bille, On Mon, Apr 07, 2003 at 05:36:11PM -0700 - a wonderful day - Bill Janssen wrote: > I think it's a much-needed idea. I've been writing an application on > top of Medusa, and I'm mildly shocked at the state of Python's Web > libraries (which, to be fair, were contributed by various people at > various times -- most of those times being in the past). No CSS > parser? Unbelievable. No way in the libraries (say, httplib) to pass > multipart/form-data arguments? Intriguing. probably the lib-creation suffers from the quite pythonic-:) "we are all programmers syndrom" ( since it's so easy, to do this and that with just a few lines of python, no one steps up and condenses this stuff in a rock-solid standards lib) When I've been hacking at http-wml/html- or https-hbci-testing tools the tasks to use the http, http/ssl or hbci protocol were main tasks, so the clients were willing to pay for this extra work, but this will sure change in the age of web-services ... whatever this means ... > I think one of the deliverables should be a roadmap for updating the > standard libraries related to the Web to bring them in line with > modern Web practice, and a plan for a mechanism to keep them > up-to-date. Hopefully a task one can handle in a standard way. +1 on both deliverables (roadmap and sync-plan) All the best, s t e f a n. -- Stefan Drees, sdrees@acm.org. Fingerprint = 516C C4EF 712A B26F 15C9 C7B7 5651 6964 D508 1B56 From guido@python.org Tue Apr 8 12:41:26 2003 From: guido@python.org (Guido van Rossum) Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 07:41:26 -0400 Subject: [meta-sig] Proposal: Web-SIG In-Reply-To: "Your message of 05 Apr 2003 14:58:02 CST." <1049576282.6025.91.camel@lothlorien> References: <1049057153.689.41.camel@lothlorien> <1049576282.6025.91.camel@lothlorien> Message-ID: <200304081141.h38BfQM32072@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> > Except for Guido, no one has responded to this. Thoughts? Opinions? > Implicit consent? What can I do to move this forward? I suggest that you mention this idea on c.l.py, gather support there (INCLUDING PEOPLE WILLING TO DO THE WORK!), draft a mission statement, and then come back. If you can do all that, I expect you won't have any trouble getting the sig created. There's (intentionally) not much of a formal process for SIG creation beyond the guidelines on http://www.python.org/sigs/guidelines.html, but in my experience one person proposing something and a few others shouting "that's a good idea" is no guarantee for a successful SIG. I'm not much of a web developer myself (despite working for a web company :-), so it's hard for me to judge whether a particular subject needs a SIG. The best reason to create a SIG is usually that lots of people are already working on the topic and want a place to meet. A poor reason to create a SIG is to want others to solve your problems. Note that we had a web-sig until 1998, so technically you'd be reviving that one; however, reviving a SIG requires (at least) the same effort as creating one. --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/) From hancock-anansispaceworks@imeme.net Tue Apr 8 18:00:57 2003 From: hancock-anansispaceworks@imeme.net (hancock-anansispaceworks@imeme.net) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 17:00:57 -0000 (GMT) Subject: [meta-sig] Proposal: Web-SIG In-Reply-To: <200304081141.h38BfQM32072@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> References: <1049057153.689.41.camel@lothlorien> <1049576282.6025.91.camel@lothlorien> <200304081141.h38BfQM32072@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> Message-ID: <4570.216.87.131.106.1049821257.squirrel@imeme.net> >> Except for Guido, no one has responded to this. Thoughts? Opinions? >> Implicit consent? What can I do to move this forward? > > I suggest that you mention this idea on c.l.py, gather support there > (INCLUDING PEOPLE WILLING TO DO THE WORK!), draft a mission statement, > and then come back. If you can do all that, I expect you won't have any > trouble getting the sig created. I think there are a lot of interesting problems in web development -- my particular needs for collaboration are on the client side. I have been involved in discussions of a Python Applet plugin for popular browsers on the main python list and the pygame list, and have considered starting a SIG for that project. Would that be on-topic for the proposed web-sig or would it only apply to the server side? I'm presently about an 85% satisfied user of Zope. I'm probably more interested in seeing Zope improve rather than switching (Zope 3 sounds like it might be very good, but I haven't really explored it). Almost all of my current programming activity is web development. Anyway, if you make it, I will come. ;-) Cheers, Terry Hancock ( hancock@anansispaceworks.com ) From ianb@colorstudy.com Wed Apr 9 00:24:07 2003 From: ianb@colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking) Date: 08 Apr 2003 18:24:07 -0500 Subject: [meta-sig] Proposal: Web-SIG In-Reply-To: <200304081141.h38BfQM32072@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> References: <1049057153.689.41.camel@lothlorien> <1049576282.6025.91.camel@lothlorien> <200304081141.h38BfQM32072@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> Message-ID: <1049844246.702.72.camel@lothlorien> On Tue, 2003-04-08 at 06:41, Guido van Rossum wrote: > I suggest that you mention this idea on c.l.py, gather support there > (INCLUDING PEOPLE WILLING TO DO THE WORK!), draft a mission statement, > and then come back. If you can do all that, I expect you won't have > any trouble getting the sig created. I'm not really sure what to do with this. My goal is to bring together people who have already done the work, many (probably most) of whom are not on c.l.py. Since I was planning on doing it anyway, here's a list I just compiled of all the related projects (sections sorted by relevance, but no sorting withing sections). People obviously are working on this stuff... I'm just hoping to get people to work together better. I'd rather spend my time hassling these people to get involved than to spend time on an extended discussion on c.l.py... I suppose I can contact all these people individually, but it'd be nice to be able to tell them (if they do want to cooperate) that they should all come somewhere to discuss it. I think the length of the list is itself an indication of the problem we're having. THE LIST ======== Wasp http://www.execulink.com/~robin1/wasp/readme.html robin.escalation@ACM.org Framework Xist http://www.livinglogic.de/Python/xist/ Template (advertised framework-neutral) alois.kastner-maresch@livinglogic.de (general contact) Content processor (framework-neutral) mod_python http://www.modpython.org/ mod_python@modpython.org Framework/server infrastructure PyWX http://pywx.idyll.org/ pywx-discuss@lists.sourceforge.net Server infrastructure (like mod_python) Spyce http://spyce.sourceforge.net/ spyce-users@lists.sourceforge.net, barr@cs.cornell.edu Framework PSO - Power (Python) Service Objects http://www.scriptfoundry.com/modules/pso/ pso-development@lists.sourceforge.net, thanos@0x01.com Framework (?) Jon's Python modules (jonpy) http://jonpy.sourceforge.net/ jonpy-users@lists.sourceforge.net, jon+jonpy@unequivocal.co.uk Framework Castalian http://www.kryogenix.org/code/castalian/ sil@kryogenix.org Embedded Python (cgi-ish) Jaguar for Python http://jaguar.sourceforge.net/ jaguar-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, terrelshumway@users.sourceforge.net Framework Albatross http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/albatross/ albatross-users@object-craft.com.au Framework Zope http://www.zope.org zope-dev@zope.org, zope@zope.org Framework Webware http://webware.sf.net webware-discuss@lists.sf.net, webware-devel@lists.sf.net Framework Quixote http://www.mems-exchange.org/software/quixote/ quixote-users@mems-exchange.org, amk@amk.ca Framework Twisted Matrix http://www.twistedmatrix.com/ twisted-python@twistedmatrix.com Framework/server infrastructure SkunkWeb http://skunkweb.sourceforge.net/ skunkweb-list@lists.sourceforge.net, smulloni@bracknell.smullyan.org Framework Draco http://draco.boskant.nl/ dracoweb-list@lists.sourceforge.net, geert@boskant.nl Framework Crusader http://www.movatis.com/crusader/ crusader-public@lists.sourceforge.net Framework CherryPy http://www.cherrypy.org/ cherrypy-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Framework Slither http://slither.toolsofcomputing.com/ wpp_book@mailman.cs.luc.edu Framework Medusa http://www.amk.ca/python/code/medusa.html medusa-dev@python.org Server/infrastructure template module http://www.embl-heidelberg.de/~chenna/pythonpages/template.html chenna@embl-heidelberg.de Template (cgi functions also) ############################################################ ## Templating ############################################################ Elements http://www.nthwave.net/elements/ mike@nthwave.net Static website builder empy http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/empy/ empy-list@alcyone.com Embedded Python (template) htmltmpl http://htmltmpl.sourceforge.net/ htmltmpl-support@lists.sourceforge.net HTML:Template-ish (template) Yet Another Python Templating Utility (YAPTU) http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/52305 aleax@aleax.it Template PyMeld http://www.entrian.com/PyMeld/ richie@entrian.com Template (DOM-style) Cubictemp http://www.nullcube.com/software/cubictemp.html aldo@nullcube.com, chaitan@nullcube.com Template Cheetah http://www.cheetahtemplate.org/ cheetahtemplate-discuss@lists.sourceforge.net Template Maki http://maki.sf.net maki-general@lists.sourceforge.net Template ############################################################ ## Inactive/Retired ############################################################ Poor Man's Zope http://pmz.sourceforge.net/ ajung@suxers.de pmz-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net Embedded Python (template+mini framework) (inactive) Python Server Pages http://www.ciobriefings.com/psp/ kwangell@msn.com Jython/PSP (Java-oriented) (inactive) Python Hypertext Preprocessor (PyHP) http://www.ccraig.org/software/pyhp/ (retired) hsc - html Sucks Completely http://www.giga.or.at/~agi/hsc/ agi@giga.or.at, agi@sbox.tu-graz.ac.at. Website builder (static) (retired) ASPy http://archive.dstc.edu.au/aspy/ brads@dstc.edu.au JSP/ASP, Jython oriented (inactive) AHTS - An HTML Templating System http://ahts.sourceforge.net/ ahts-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net, ben.de.rydt@pandora.be. Template (inactive) Snakelets http://snakelets.sourceforge.net/ irmen@users.sourceforge.net Framework (inactive) PyServ http://pyserv.sourceforge.net/ stephen_purcell@yahoo.com Framework (inactive) From jeremy@alum.mit.edu Wed Apr 9 00:57:51 2003 From: jeremy@alum.mit.edu (Jeremy Hylton) Date: 08 Apr 2003 19:57:51 -0400 Subject: [meta-sig] Proposal: Web-SIG In-Reply-To: <1049844246.702.72.camel@lothlorien> References: <1049057153.689.41.camel@lothlorien> <1049576282.6025.91.camel@lothlorien> <200304081141.h38BfQM32072@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> <1049844246.702.72.camel@lothlorien> Message-ID: <1049846270.10278.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2003-04-08 at 19:24, Ian Bicking wrote: > Since I was planning on doing it anyway, here's a list I just compiled > of all the related projects (sections sorted by relevance, but no > sorting withing sections). People obviously are working on this > stuff... I'm just hoping to get people to work together better. I'd > rather spend my time hassling these people to get involved than to spend > time on an extended discussion on c.l.py... I suppose I can contact all > these people individually, but it'd be nice to be able to tell them (if > they do want to cooperate) that they should all come somewhere to > discuss it. You'll need to send an announcement to comp.lang.python or to c.l.p.announce. I don't see any other way to reach people other then sending them email directly. So send an announcement and tell people to contact you if they're interested in helping with a SIG. > THE LIST > ======== Perhaps Zope should be on "the list." Also Zope Page Templates seem to fit the bill for templating. Jeremy From ianb@colorstudy.com Wed Apr 9 00:59:17 2003 From: ianb@colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking) Date: 08 Apr 2003 18:59:17 -0500 Subject: [meta-sig] Proposal: Web-SIG In-Reply-To: <1049846270.10278.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1049057153.689.41.camel@lothlorien> <1049576282.6025.91.camel@lothlorien> <200304081141.h38BfQM32072@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> <1049844246.702.72.camel@lothlorien> <1049846270.10278.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1049846357.701.82.camel@lothlorien> On Tue, 2003-04-08 at 18:57, Jeremy Hylton wrote: > You'll need to send an announcement to comp.lang.python or to > c.l.p.announce. I don't see any other way to reach people other then > sending them email directly. So send an announcement and tell people to > contact you if they're interested in helping with a SIG. Yes, I suppose I could do that. But then people would just email me, and I'd have to somehow collect and relay responses... that's what mailing lists are for. So I'd just have to find a list elsewhere, when all I'm trying to do is get a list and a little web page... I was just hoping getting the mailing list would be the easy part. I should've just asked for an SF project, that'd be long done by now... > > THE LIST > > ======== > > Perhaps Zope should be on "the list." Also Zope Page Templates seem to > fit the bill for templating. It's in there too, about half-way down. None of that alphabetizing for me! Ian From guido@python.org Wed Apr 9 01:04:29 2003 From: guido@python.org (Guido van Rossum) Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 20:04:29 -0400 Subject: [meta-sig] Proposal: Web-SIG In-Reply-To: "Your message of 08 Apr 2003 18:24:07 CDT." <1049844246.702.72.camel@lothlorien> References: <1049057153.689.41.camel@lothlorien> <1049576282.6025.91.camel@lothlorien> <200304081141.h38BfQM32072@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> <1049844246.702.72.camel@lothlorien> Message-ID: <200304090004.h3904Tm32535@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> > On Tue, 2003-04-08 at 06:41, Guido van Rossum wrote: > > I suggest that you mention this idea on c.l.py, gather support there > > (INCLUDING PEOPLE WILLING TO DO THE WORK!), draft a mission statement, > > and then come back. If you can do all that, I expect you won't have > > any trouble getting the sig created. > > I'm not really sure what to do with this. My goal is to bring together > people who have already done the work, many (probably most) of whom are > not on c.l.py. Your initial post stated some clear goals, which included work, like creating webpages with reviews of the various systems. You're not expecting to do that all yourself, are you? If you are, forget the whole thing; it won't happen (and you wouldn't need a SIG anyway :-). > Since I was planning on doing it anyway, here's a list I just compiled > of all the related projects (sections sorted by relevance, but no > sorting withing sections). People obviously are working on this > stuff... I'm just hoping to get people to work together better. I'd > rather spend my time hassling these people to get involved than to spend > time on an extended discussion on c.l.py... I suppose I can contact all > these people individually, but it'd be nice to be able to tell them (if > they do want to cooperate) that they should all come somewhere to > discuss it. If you don't want to go the c.l.py route, getting these people (at least some of them) to individually announce their willingness to help to the meta-sig would work, too. > I think the length of the list is itself an indication of the problem > we're having. I don't know. I suppose if you ask for a list of web products for Java, the list would be much longer. But let's not have the SIG's discussion on the meta-sig. --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/) From guido@python.org Wed Apr 9 01:05:39 2003 From: guido@python.org (Guido van Rossum) Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 20:05:39 -0400 Subject: [meta-sig] Proposal: Web-SIG In-Reply-To: "Your message of 08 Apr 2003 18:59:17 CDT." <1049846357.701.82.camel@lothlorien> References: <1049057153.689.41.camel@lothlorien> <1049576282.6025.91.camel@lothlorien> <200304081141.h38BfQM32072@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> <1049844246.702.72.camel@lothlorien> <1049846270.10278.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1049846357.701.82.camel@lothlorien> Message-ID: <200304090005.h3905dG32562@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> > I should've just asked for an SF project, that'd be long done by > now... If a mailing list is all you want, indeed, you shouldn't even be asking here. --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/) From jeremy@alum.mit.edu Wed Apr 9 04:20:37 2003 From: jeremy@alum.mit.edu (Jeremy Hylton) Date: 08 Apr 2003 23:20:37 -0400 Subject: [meta-sig] Proposal: Web-SIG In-Reply-To: <1049846357.701.82.camel@lothlorien> References: <1049057153.689.41.camel@lothlorien> <1049576282.6025.91.camel@lothlorien> <200304081141.h38BfQM32072@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> <1049844246.702.72.camel@lothlorien> <1049846270.10278.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1049846357.701.82.camel@lothlorien> Message-ID: <1049858436.10278.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2003-04-08 at 19:59, Ian Bicking wrote: > Yes, I suppose I could do that. But then people would just email me, > and I'd have to somehow collect and relay responses... that's what > mailing lists are for. So I'd just have to find a list elsewhere, when > all I'm trying to do is get a list and a little web page... I was just > hoping getting the mailing list would be the easy part. I should've > just asked for an SF project, that'd be long done by now... It sounds to me like there's potential for a Python SIG, but it needs a chair to define a charter and ensure some progress gets made. The first step along that path is to round up people interested enough to help. There are thousands of SF projects, I assume, and most of them don't amount to much. Jeremy From barry@python.org Wed Apr 9 04:18:17 2003 From: barry@python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: 08 Apr 2003 23:18:17 -0400 Subject: [meta-sig] Proposal: Web-SIG In-Reply-To: <1049846357.701.82.camel@lothlorien> References: <1049057153.689.41.camel@lothlorien> <1049576282.6025.91.camel@lothlorien> <200304081141.h38BfQM32072@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> <1049844246.702.72.camel@lothlorien> <1049846270.10278.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1049846357.701.82.camel@lothlorien> Message-ID: <1049858297.22046.6.camel@geddy> On Tue, 2003-04-08 at 19:59, Ian Bicking wrote: > Yes, I suppose I could do that. But then people would just email me, > and I'd have to somehow collect and relay responses... that's what > mailing lists are for. So I'd just have to find a list elsewhere, when > all I'm trying to do is get a list and a little web page... I was just > hoping getting the mailing list would be the easy part. I should've > just asked for an SF project, that'd be long done by now... /Creating/ the mailing list is indeed the easy part -- I can do it in about 5 minutes. It sounds like there's not quite consensus yet that all the requirements for a sig are in place. Personally, I think if you put together a sig page like for the existing sigs, and there's a clear mission that the list is going to be used to get work done, I have no problems creating it. Sigs should by their nature have a finite lifetime. -Barry