From guido@CNRI.Reston.Va.US Wed Jun 4 15:09:16 1997 From: guido@CNRI.Reston.Va.US (Guido van Rossum) Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 10:09:16 -0400 Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] Getting rid of Majordomo's subject munging Message-ID: <199706041409.KAA08236@eric.CNRI.Reston.Va.US> I'm not sure if this is the right place to post, but I din't know of any more appropriate forum. Majordomo, as set up on python.org, adds the name of the mailing list in all caps between square brackets to the subject of all mail sent to a mailing list. Like so: Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] Proposal for new SIG I personally hate this, and believe it's unnecessary. None of the other mailing lists I'm subscribed to have this. My mail filtering tools don't need it -- they use the To: or cc: headers, which are more reliable (especially when mails are forwarded between lists or a reply to my message to a list is sent to me personally). So, here's a plea to Barry to remove all subject munging from the Majordomo setup. Please...? --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/) _______________ META-SIG - SIG on Python.Org SIGs and Mailing Lists send messages to: meta-sig@python.org administrivia to: meta-sig-request@python.org _______________ From Fred L. Drake, Jr." References: <199706041409.KAA08236@eric.CNRI.Reston.Va.US> Message-ID: <199706041420.KAA12408@weyr.cnri.reston.va.us> Guido van Rossum writes: > So, here's a plea to Barry to remove all subject munging from the > Majordomo setup. I actually like it, though I'd be o.k. with the munges being shorter ("[Some-SIG]" should be sufficient, rather than "[PYTHON SOME-SIG]"). It's really not a matter of auto-filing software being able to do without it, it's for those of us who want the sigs in our primary inbox. -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr. fdrake@cnri.reston.va.us Corporation for National Research Initiatives 1895 Preston White Drive Reston, VA 20191-5434 _______________ META-SIG - SIG on Python.Org SIGs and Mailing Lists send messages to: meta-sig@python.org administrivia to: meta-sig-request@python.org _______________ From Barry A. Warsaw" Message-ID: <199706041427.KAA00363@anthem.CNRI.Reston.Va.US> >>>>> "Guido" == Guido van Rossum writes: Guido> I'm not sure if this is the right place to post, but I Guido> din't know of any more appropriate forum. As good a place as any! Guido> I personally hate this, and believe it's unnecessary. I really like it, but not (primarily) for mail filter purposes, although it does work very nicely with VM's virtual folder system (it's much quicker to filter on subjects than recipients). The other great win that I see is that the Subject summary shows me those strings, and I typically read those messages second order. So even without looking at the message I can decide whether to read it or not during the first pass of my new mail. I'd like to keep these tags, but I won't stand in the way of the majority. I do think however that for fairness, each mailing list ought to decide whether to keep them or not (or should we just be authoritarian and let meta-sig decide?). It will take some work to get rid of them, since they're sprinkled throughout all the .config files. I'll also just add that this is the first complaint I've seen about them! :-) What say ye, meta-sigsters? -Barry _______________ META-SIG - SIG on Python.Org SIGs and Mailing Lists send messages to: meta-sig@python.org administrivia to: meta-sig-request@python.org _______________ From Robin.K.Friedrich@USAHQ.UnitedSpaceAlliance.com Wed Jun 4 15:36:23 1997 From: Robin.K.Friedrich@USAHQ.UnitedSpaceAlliance.com (Robin.K.Friedrich@USAHQ.UnitedSpaceAlliance.com) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 09:36:23 -0500 Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] Re: Getting rid of Majordomo's subject Message-ID: <000E3728.1924@freedom.rsoc.rockwell.com> What say ye, meta-sigsters? -Barry I vote to just shorten them. They do take up too much precious line space. Let's make it just [meta-sig] for example, lowercase and drop the python. _______________ META-SIG - SIG on Python.Org SIGs and Mailing Lists send messages to: meta-sig@python.org administrivia to: meta-sig-request@python.org _______________ From jim@digicool.com Wed Jun 4 16:02:29 1997 From: jim@digicool.com (Jim Fulton) Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 11:02:29 -0400 Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] Re: Getting rid of Majordomo's subject munging References: <199706041409.KAA08236@eric.CNRI.Reston.Va.US> <199706041427.KAA00363@anthem.CNRI.Reston.Va.US> Message-ID: <33958385.7CA1@digicool.com> Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > What say ye, meta-sigsters? I find them both annoying (they hurt my eyes) and useful (It's nice to have the list messages stand out), and I wish the other mailing lists I was on did this. I'm for shortenning them to [SPAM-SIG]. Jim _______________ META-SIG - SIG on Python.Org SIGs and Mailing Lists send messages to: meta-sig@python.org administrivia to: meta-sig-request@python.org _______________ From nick@osg.saic.com Wed Jun 4 16:03:57 1997 From: nick@osg.saic.com (nick) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 11:03:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] Re: Getting rid of Majordomo's subject munging In-Reply-To: <199706041427.KAA00363@anthem.CNRI.Reston.Va.US> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jun 1997, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > What say ye, meta-sigsters? 6 of 1; .5 dozen of the other AFAIC. nick ------------------------------------------------ Nick Seidenman (not necessarily speaking for) Science Applications International Corporation 703.448.6497 (o) 703.821.3576 (f) _______________ META-SIG - SIG on Python.Org SIGs and Mailing Lists send messages to: meta-sig@python.org administrivia to: meta-sig-request@python.org _______________ From butler@cs.byu.edu Wed Jun 4 16:14:12 1997 From: butler@cs.byu.edu (Kevin J. Butler) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 09:14:12 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] Re: Getting rid of Majordomo's subject munging In-Reply-To: <199706041427.KAA00363@anthem.CNRI.Reston.Va.US> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jun 1997, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > >>>>> "Guido" == Guido van Rossum writes: > > Guido> I personally hate this, and believe it's unnecessary. > > I really like it, but not (primarily) for mail filter purposes, ... > What say ye, meta-sigsters? I also like the tags. (Looking skyward for lightning bolts after disagreeing with Guido twice in 10 days...) I think if I were currently using a mail processing package, I would feel more like Guido, however... kb -- Kevin Butler butler@byu.edu 8-) A pun a day keeps the doctor away...and everyone else, too. http://students.cs.byu.edu/~butler/homepage.html (updated 10/18/96) _______________ META-SIG - SIG on Python.Org SIGs and Mailing Lists send messages to: meta-sig@python.org administrivia to: meta-sig-request@python.org _______________ From fredrik.lundh@image.combitech.se Wed Jun 4 17:49:53 1997 From: fredrik.lundh@image.combitech.se (Fredrik Lundh) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 18:49:53 +0200 Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] Getting rid of Majordomo's subject munging In-Reply-To: <199706041409.KAA08236@eric.CNRI.Reston.Va.US> (message from Guido van Rossum on Wed, 04 Jun 1997 10:09:16 -0400) Message-ID: <9706041649.AA09882@arnold.image.ivab.se> > So, here's a plea to Barry to remove all subject munging from the > Majordomo setup. > Please...? Well, being a medium volume mail reader (not more than I can live without a mail preprocessor), I kinda like it. Could you make it a subscriber option? Couldn't be more than a few lines of Python to change, or (what do you mean, "not written in python"?) Cheers /F (busy driving his little car in circles around the local C++ and Perl hackers ;-) _______________ META-SIG - SIG on Python.Org SIGs and Mailing Lists send messages to: meta-sig@python.org administrivia to: meta-sig-request@python.org _______________ From Barry A. Warsaw" <9706041649.AA09882@arnold.image.ivab.se> Message-ID: <199706041811.OAA00653@anthem.CNRI.Reston.Va.US> >>>>> "FL" == Fredrik Lundh writes: FL> Well, being a medium volume mail reader (not more than I can FL> live without a mail preprocessor), I kinda like it. Could you FL> make it a subscriber option? Couldn't be more than a few FL> lines of Python to change, or (what do you mean, "not written FL> in python"?) It's a great idea, but not with Majordumbo. Looking at Mailman is on My List Of Things To Do. At least with *it* I could hack out some Python to possibly support this (if it doesn't already). I've had to hack the MD source to fix problems and all that Perl just gives me the willies every time. -Barry _______________ META-SIG - SIG on Python.Org SIGs and Mailing Lists send messages to: meta-sig@python.org administrivia to: meta-sig-request@python.org _______________ From janssen@parc.xerox.com Wed Jun 4 21:09:13 1997 From: janssen@parc.xerox.com (Bill Janssen) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 13:09:13 PDT Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] Re: Getting rid of Majordomo's subject In-Reply-To: <000E3728.1924@freedom.rsoc.rockwell.com> References: <000E3728.1924@freedom.rsoc.rockwell.com> Message-ID: <0nZQhdAB0KGW030Mhm@holmes.parc.xerox.com> Shorten them. Bill _______________ META-SIG - SIG on Python.Org SIGs and Mailing Lists send messages to: meta-sig@python.org administrivia to: meta-sig-request@python.org _______________ From MHammond@skippinet.com.au Thu Jun 5 03:51:42 1997 From: MHammond@skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 12:51:42 +1000 Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] Re: Getting rid of Majordomo's subject Message-ID: <199706050451.OAA03580@minotaur.labyrinth.net.au> > What say ye, meta-sigsters? > > -Barry > > > I vote to just shorten them. They do take up too much precious line > space. Let's make it just [meta-sig] for example, lowercase and drop > the python. Sounds fine to me.... Mark. _______________ META-SIG - SIG on Python.Org SIGs and Mailing Lists send messages to: meta-sig@python.org administrivia to: meta-sig-request@python.org _______________ From stevemw@pogo.WV.TEK.COM Thu Jun 5 23:56:35 1997 From: stevemw@pogo.WV.TEK.COM (Stephen M. Wynne) Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 15:56:35 -0700 Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] would-be pattern-sig cont'd In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 02 Apr 1997 13:27:09 +0100." <199704021226.MAA01902@NMR.EMBL-Heidelberg.DE> Message-ID: <199706052256.PAA13041@jetsons.WV.TEK.COM> I sort of fell off the list of people getting mail on this (possibly because the discussion settled down somewhat). I hope we're still talking about a pattern-sig? (I haven't joined the meta-sig list yet, by the way.) Did we move off onto a BSCW forum? Nothing much seems to be happening on http://xxxxxxx-xxx:xxxx@bscw.gmd.de/bscw/bscw.cgi/0/1098314.... Thanks! Steve Wynne (Tektronix CPID Software Tools) M/S 63-356, P.O. Box 1000, Wilsonville, OR 97070-1000 Work phone/FAX: (503) 685-3526/685-4901 _______________ META-SIG - SIG on Python.Org SIGs and Mailing Lists send messages to: meta-sig@python.org administrivia to: meta-sig-request@python.org _______________ From Barry A. Warsaw" I've shorted all the SIG header prefixes to not include the word "PYTHON". Note that I didn't change PYTHONWIN-SIG OR PYTHONMAC-SIG, of course. -Barry _______________ META-SIG - SIG on Python.Org SIGs and Mailing Lists send messages to: meta-sig@python.org administrivia to: meta-sig-request@python.org _______________ From guido@CNRI.Reston.Va.US Wed Jun 4 15:09:16 1997 From: guido@CNRI.Reston.Va.US (Guido van Rossum) Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 10:09:16 -0400 Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] Getting rid of Majordomo's subject munging Message-ID: <199706041409.KAA08236@eric.CNRI.Reston.Va.US> I'm not sure if this is the right place to post, but I din't know of any more appropriate forum. Majordomo, as set up on python.org, adds the name of the mailing list in all caps between square brackets to the subject of all mail sent to a mailing list. Like so: Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] Proposal for new SIG I personally hate this, and believe it's unnecessary. None of the other mailing lists I'm subscribed to have this. My mail filtering tools don't need it -- they use the To: or cc: headers, which are more reliable (especially when mails are forwarded between lists or a reply to my message to a list is sent to me personally). So, here's a plea to Barry to remove all subject munging from the Majordomo setup. Please...? --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/) _______________ META-SIG - SIG on Python.Org SIGs and Mailing Lists send messages to: meta-sig@python.org administrivia to: meta-sig-request@python.org _______________ From Fred L. Drake, Jr." References: <199706041409.KAA08236@eric.CNRI.Reston.Va.US> Message-ID: <199706041420.KAA12408@weyr.cnri.reston.va.us> Guido van Rossum writes: > So, here's a plea to Barry to remove all subject munging from the > Majordomo setup. I actually like it, though I'd be o.k. with the munges being shorter ("[Some-SIG]" should be sufficient, rather than "[PYTHON SOME-SIG]"). It's really not a matter of auto-filing software being able to do without it, it's for those of us who want the sigs in our primary inbox. -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr. fdrake@cnri.reston.va.us Corporation for National Research Initiatives 1895 Preston White Drive Reston, VA 20191-5434 _______________ META-SIG - SIG on Python.Org SIGs and Mailing Lists send messages to: meta-sig@python.org administrivia to: meta-sig-request@python.org _______________ From Barry A. Warsaw" Message-ID: <199706041427.KAA00363@anthem.CNRI.Reston.Va.US> >>>>> "Guido" == Guido van Rossum writes: Guido> I'm not sure if this is the right place to post, but I Guido> din't know of any more appropriate forum. As good a place as any! Guido> I personally hate this, and believe it's unnecessary. I really like it, but not (primarily) for mail filter purposes, although it does work very nicely with VM's virtual folder system (it's much quicker to filter on subjects than recipients). The other great win that I see is that the Subject summary shows me those strings, and I typically read those messages second order. So even without looking at the message I can decide whether to read it or not during the first pass of my new mail. I'd like to keep these tags, but I won't stand in the way of the majority. I do think however that for fairness, each mailing list ought to decide whether to keep them or not (or should we just be authoritarian and let meta-sig decide?). It will take some work to get rid of them, since they're sprinkled throughout all the .config files. I'll also just add that this is the first complaint I've seen about them! :-) What say ye, meta-sigsters? -Barry _______________ META-SIG - SIG on Python.Org SIGs and Mailing Lists send messages to: meta-sig@python.org administrivia to: meta-sig-request@python.org _______________ From Robin.K.Friedrich@USAHQ.UnitedSpaceAlliance.com Wed Jun 4 15:36:23 1997 From: Robin.K.Friedrich@USAHQ.UnitedSpaceAlliance.com (Robin.K.Friedrich@USAHQ.UnitedSpaceAlliance.com) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 09:36:23 -0500 Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] Re: Getting rid of Majordomo's subject Message-ID: <000E3728.1924@freedom.rsoc.rockwell.com> What say ye, meta-sigsters? -Barry I vote to just shorten them. They do take up too much precious line space. Let's make it just [meta-sig] for example, lowercase and drop the python. _______________ META-SIG - SIG on Python.Org SIGs and Mailing Lists send messages to: meta-sig@python.org administrivia to: meta-sig-request@python.org _______________ From jim@digicool.com Wed Jun 4 16:02:29 1997 From: jim@digicool.com (Jim Fulton) Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 11:02:29 -0400 Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] Re: Getting rid of Majordomo's subject munging References: <199706041409.KAA08236@eric.CNRI.Reston.Va.US> <199706041427.KAA00363@anthem.CNRI.Reston.Va.US> Message-ID: <33958385.7CA1@digicool.com> Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > What say ye, meta-sigsters? I find them both annoying (they hurt my eyes) and useful (It's nice to have the list messages stand out), and I wish the other mailing lists I was on did this. I'm for shortenning them to [SPAM-SIG]. Jim _______________ META-SIG - SIG on Python.Org SIGs and Mailing Lists send messages to: meta-sig@python.org administrivia to: meta-sig-request@python.org _______________ From nick@osg.saic.com Wed Jun 4 16:03:57 1997 From: nick@osg.saic.com (nick) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 11:03:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] Re: Getting rid of Majordomo's subject munging In-Reply-To: <199706041427.KAA00363@anthem.CNRI.Reston.Va.US> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jun 1997, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > What say ye, meta-sigsters? 6 of 1; .5 dozen of the other AFAIC. nick ------------------------------------------------ Nick Seidenman (not necessarily speaking for) Science Applications International Corporation 703.448.6497 (o) 703.821.3576 (f) _______________ META-SIG - SIG on Python.Org SIGs and Mailing Lists send messages to: meta-sig@python.org administrivia to: meta-sig-request@python.org _______________ From butler@cs.byu.edu Wed Jun 4 16:14:12 1997 From: butler@cs.byu.edu (Kevin J. Butler) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 09:14:12 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] Re: Getting rid of Majordomo's subject munging In-Reply-To: <199706041427.KAA00363@anthem.CNRI.Reston.Va.US> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jun 1997, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > >>>>> "Guido" == Guido van Rossum writes: > > Guido> I personally hate this, and believe it's unnecessary. > > I really like it, but not (primarily) for mail filter purposes, ... > What say ye, meta-sigsters? I also like the tags. (Looking skyward for lightning bolts after disagreeing with Guido twice in 10 days...) I think if I were currently using a mail processing package, I would feel more like Guido, however... kb -- Kevin Butler butler@byu.edu 8-) A pun a day keeps the doctor away...and everyone else, too. http://students.cs.byu.edu/~butler/homepage.html (updated 10/18/96) _______________ META-SIG - SIG on Python.Org SIGs and Mailing Lists send messages to: meta-sig@python.org administrivia to: meta-sig-request@python.org _______________ From fredrik.lundh@image.combitech.se Wed Jun 4 17:49:53 1997 From: fredrik.lundh@image.combitech.se (Fredrik Lundh) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 18:49:53 +0200 Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] Getting rid of Majordomo's subject munging In-Reply-To: <199706041409.KAA08236@eric.CNRI.Reston.Va.US> (message from Guido van Rossum on Wed, 04 Jun 1997 10:09:16 -0400) Message-ID: <9706041649.AA09882@arnold.image.ivab.se> > So, here's a plea to Barry to remove all subject munging from the > Majordomo setup. > Please...? Well, being a medium volume mail reader (not more than I can live without a mail preprocessor), I kinda like it. Could you make it a subscriber option? Couldn't be more than a few lines of Python to change, or (what do you mean, "not written in python"?) Cheers /F (busy driving his little car in circles around the local C++ and Perl hackers ;-) _______________ META-SIG - SIG on Python.Org SIGs and Mailing Lists send messages to: meta-sig@python.org administrivia to: meta-sig-request@python.org _______________ From Barry A. Warsaw" <9706041649.AA09882@arnold.image.ivab.se> Message-ID: <199706041811.OAA00653@anthem.CNRI.Reston.Va.US> >>>>> "FL" == Fredrik Lundh writes: FL> Well, being a medium volume mail reader (not more than I can FL> live without a mail preprocessor), I kinda like it. Could you FL> make it a subscriber option? Couldn't be more than a few FL> lines of Python to change, or (what do you mean, "not written FL> in python"?) It's a great idea, but not with Majordumbo. Looking at Mailman is on My List Of Things To Do. At least with *it* I could hack out some Python to possibly support this (if it doesn't already). I've had to hack the MD source to fix problems and all that Perl just gives me the willies every time. -Barry _______________ META-SIG - SIG on Python.Org SIGs and Mailing Lists send messages to: meta-sig@python.org administrivia to: meta-sig-request@python.org _______________ From janssen@parc.xerox.com Wed Jun 4 21:09:13 1997 From: janssen@parc.xerox.com (Bill Janssen) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 13:09:13 PDT Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] Re: Getting rid of Majordomo's subject In-Reply-To: <000E3728.1924@freedom.rsoc.rockwell.com> References: <000E3728.1924@freedom.rsoc.rockwell.com> Message-ID: <0nZQhdAB0KGW030Mhm@holmes.parc.xerox.com> Shorten them. Bill _______________ META-SIG - SIG on Python.Org SIGs and Mailing Lists send messages to: meta-sig@python.org administrivia to: meta-sig-request@python.org _______________ From MHammond@skippinet.com.au Thu Jun 5 03:51:42 1997 From: MHammond@skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 12:51:42 +1000 Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] Re: Getting rid of Majordomo's subject Message-ID: <199706050451.OAA03580@minotaur.labyrinth.net.au> > What say ye, meta-sigsters? > > -Barry > > > I vote to just shorten them. They do take up too much precious line > space. Let's make it just [meta-sig] for example, lowercase and drop > the python. Sounds fine to me.... Mark. _______________ META-SIG - SIG on Python.Org SIGs and Mailing Lists send messages to: meta-sig@python.org administrivia to: meta-sig-request@python.org _______________ From stevemw@pogo.WV.TEK.COM Thu Jun 5 23:56:35 1997 From: stevemw@pogo.WV.TEK.COM (Stephen M. Wynne) Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 15:56:35 -0700 Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] would-be pattern-sig cont'd In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 02 Apr 1997 13:27:09 +0100." <199704021226.MAA01902@NMR.EMBL-Heidelberg.DE> Message-ID: <199706052256.PAA13041@jetsons.WV.TEK.COM> I sort of fell off the list of people getting mail on this (possibly because the discussion settled down somewhat). I hope we're still talking about a pattern-sig? (I haven't joined the meta-sig list yet, by the way.) Did we move off onto a BSCW forum? Nothing much seems to be happening on http://xxxxxxx-xxx:xxxx@bscw.gmd.de/bscw/bscw.cgi/0/1098314.... Thanks! Steve Wynne (Tektronix CPID Software Tools) M/S 63-356, P.O. Box 1000, Wilsonville, OR 97070-1000 Work phone/FAX: (503) 685-3526/685-4901 _______________ META-SIG - SIG on Python.Org SIGs and Mailing Lists send messages to: meta-sig@python.org administrivia to: meta-sig-request@python.org _______________ From Barry A. Warsaw" I've shorted all the SIG header prefixes to not include the word "PYTHON". Note that I didn't change PYTHONWIN-SIG OR PYTHONMAC-SIG, of course. -Barry _______________ META-SIG - SIG on Python.Org SIGs and Mailing Lists send messages to: meta-sig@python.org administrivia to: meta-sig-request@python.org _______________