From davida@pobox.com  Thu Aug  1 01:39:03 1996
From: davida@pobox.com (David Arnold)
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 10:39:03 +1000
Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] Proposal for new SIG
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 31 Jul 1996 08:27:37 -0400."
 <199607311242.WAA11185@trapdoor.dstc.edu.au>
Message-ID: <199608010039.KAA07437@foxtail.dstc.edu.au>

Ok!  Thanks for your responses - there seem to be two issues to be
resolved:

1. the explicit inclusion of Microsoft's OLE (COM, ActiveX, ...) in
   the group's charter

2. possible names for the group/mailing list


Let me try to summarise ...

-->"Michael" == Michael McLay <mclay@eeel.nist.gov> writes:

  Michael> Should OLE be mentioned in the charter?  It's not
  Michael> distributed at this time, but that's the future claims.


Paul Everitt votes "no", citing the distributed objects crowd as being
a different group of people to the OLE crowd, but then changes his
mind as Jim Fulton thinks including OLE is a good idea.  Ken Manheimer
points out that the charter already covers "ORBs other than CORBA"
which would include a Distributed OLE.

I *do* think that OLE is important, especially now that it is built
in to NT4.0b2 and will be included in the "real" release.  I am
reluctant to focus on it because it is a very different universe to
CORBA and like ORBs.


Perhaps the second point of the charter

  o the use of ORBs other than CORBA with Python

could be expanded to

  o the use of other Distributed Object systems with Python, including
    ILU, Distributed OLE, <Daniel Larsson's ORB whose name i forget>,
    and others.


And to the name issue ...

-->"Robin" == Robin Friedrich <friedric@rose.rsoc.rockwell.com> writes:
  Robin> how about corba-sig? It seems as specific as the mission.

And then others followed with suggestions for "distobj-sig" with Roger
Masse pointing out that "DO" clashes with "Digital Object" in the
information science domain.


While I am sensitive to the state of Roger's mail folders ;-), I would
claim the DO is recogised as "Distributed Objects" in the DS domain
and doubtless many other things as well.  Which is probably an
argument that it is too generic.

I am very reluctant to call the group "corba-sig", especially since
the discussion at the conference which gave rise to the proposal was
generated by people using several different distributed object
systems.  CORBA is *too* focussed in my opinion.

Perhaps we can return to the conference proposal (which I attempted to
broaden) of an "ORB SIG"?  I favour DO-SIG as I feared that ORB-SIG
could be seen as being OMG CORBA specific, but perhaps it is the best
compromise?


Thanks again for your comments - how do you feel about the changes?


-- David Arnold   ,=================================================
================='                              +617 3654310 (voice)
CRC for Distributed Systems Technology          +617 3654311   (fax)
University of Queensland                    davida@pobox.com (email)
Australia                     <http://www.pobox.com/~davida>   (web)

  C++ compilers rarely optimize for the joy of programming - lwall



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From mclay@eeel.nist.gov  Thu Aug  1 08:23:05 1996
From: mclay@eeel.nist.gov (Michael McLay)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 07:23:05 GMT
Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] Proposal for new SIG
In-Reply-To: <199608010039.KAA07437@foxtail.dstc.edu.au>
References: <199607311242.WAA11185@trapdoor.dstc.edu.au>
 <199608010039.KAA07437@foxtail.dstc.edu.au>
Message-ID: <199608010723.HAA15977@fermi.eeel.nist.gov>

David Arnold writes:
 > 
 > I *do* think that OLE is important, especially now that it is built
 > in to NT4.0b2 and will be included in the "real" release.  I am
 > reluctant to focus on it because it is a very different universe to
 > CORBA and like ORBs.
 > 
 > 
 > Perhaps the second point of the charter
 > 
 >   o the use of ORBs other than CORBA with Python
 > 
 > could be expanded to
 > 
 >   o the use of other Distributed Object systems with Python, including
 >     ILU, Distributed OLE, <Daniel Larsson's ORB whose name i forget>,
 >     and others.

Perhaps the charter should be ammended to state that the purpose is to
work on the development of a CORBA to OLE bridge.  Positioning Python
as the preferred solution for bridging between these technologies would
be a real service to the industry.  It would also be the kind of high profile
activity that might bring more attention to the language.  

This final goal would first require defining a CORBA and OLE
interface, so those tasks would remain focused.  Perhaps the initial
thread of the SIG could be to discuss the feasibility of the project.

Is it agreed that the SIG name will be org-sig@python.org?

Michael


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From jim.fulton@digicool.com  Thu Aug  1 17:35:00 1996
From: jim.fulton@digicool.com (Jim Fulton)
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 12:35:00 -0400
Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] Proposal for new SIG
References: <199607311242.WAA11185@trapdoor.dstc.edu.au>
 <199608010039.KAA07437@foxtail.dstc.edu.au> <199608010723.HAA15977@fermi.eeel.nist.gov>
Message-ID: <3200DCB4.6B08@digicool.com>

Michael McLay wrote:
> 
> David Arnold writes:
>  >
>  > I *do* think that OLE is important, especially now that it is built
>  > in to NT4.0b2 and will be included in the "real" release.  I am
>  > reluctant to focus on it because it is a very different universe to
>  > CORBA and like ORBs.
>  >
>  >
>  > Perhaps the second point of the charter
>  >
>  >   o the use of ORBs other than CORBA with Python
>  >
>  > could be expanded to
>  >
>  >   o the use of other Distributed Object systems with Python, including
>  >     ILU, Distributed OLE, <Daniel Larsson's ORB whose name i forget>,
>  >     and others.
> 
> Perhaps the charter should be ammended to state that the purpose is to
> work on the development of a CORBA to OLE bridge.  Positioning Python
> as the preferred solution for bridging between these technologies would
> be a real service to the industry.  It would also be the kind of high profile
> activity that might bring more attention to the language.
> 
> This final goal would first require defining a CORBA and OLE
> interface, so those tasks would remain focused.  Perhaps the initial
> thread of the SIG could be to discuss the feasibility of the project.
> 

Well, that's swell, except that it is not what the original formers of
the
SIG intended.  The intial discussion started as, "Let's come up with and 
propose a Python binding to CORBA".  Unless someone signs on to do what
you said, then it certainly shouldn't be a focus of the SIG.

Jim

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From guido@CNRI.Reston.Va.US  Fri Aug  9 18:01:49 1996
From: guido@CNRI.Reston.Va.US (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 13:01:49 -0400
Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] Proposal for new SIG
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 01 Aug 1996 12:35:00 EDT."
 <3200DCB4.6B08@digicool.com>
References: <199607311242.WAA11185@trapdoor.dstc.edu.au> <199608010039.KAA07437@foxtail.dstc.edu.au> <199608010723.HAA15977@fermi.eeel.nist.gov>
 <3200DCB4.6B08@digicool.com>
Message-ID: <199608091701.NAA04768@monty>

The discussion on the do-sig seems to have died.  Is it to be created?
Are there still issues on the name?  Without having read every word
that has been said, do-sig seems the best choice to me (and to several
others at CNRI :-).

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)

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From klm@CNRI.Reston.Va.US  Tue Aug 13 18:27:14 1996
From: klm@CNRI.Reston.Va.US (Ken Manheimer)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 13:27:14 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] Re: ORB-SIG/DO-SIG/etc
In-Reply-To: <199608131422.AAA12199@foxtail.dstc.edu.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.960813131617.359L-100000@glyph>

We seem to be having some troubles converging on a name for the
distributed-objects sig, and that is keeping the thing from being
established.  It has a pretty clear mission statement, and useful work to
be done - would anyone *object* if we just named it do-sig, and got the
thing launched? 

Ken Manheimer		klm@cnri.reston.va.us	    703 620-8990 x268
	    (orporation for National Research |nitiatives
		      # I benefit from Python #
	# so i joined the PSA <http://www.python.org/psa/>. #

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From fredrik_lundh@ivab.se  Tue Aug 13 20:01:52 1996
From: fredrik_lundh@ivab.se (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 21:01:52 +0200
Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] Re: ORB-SIG/DO-SIG/etc
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.960813131617.359L-100000@glyph> (message from Ken
 Manheimer on Tue, 13 Aug 1996 13:27:14 -0400 (EDT))
Message-ID: <9608131901.AA27709@arnold.image.ivab.se>


Hmm.  I thought it was already settled, since someone announced it on
the main list...

(in my local universe, I still prefer orb for do, but any name is
surely better than no sig at all.  We cannot have too many sigs, at
least not as long as someone does some at least some work related to
them :-)

	/F

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From davida@pobox.com  Wed Aug 28 02:40:29 1996
From: davida@pobox.com (David Arnold)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 11:40:29 +1000
Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] (Final!) Proposal for Distributed Objects SIG
Message-ID: <199608280140.LAA00450@foxtail.dstc.edu.au>

Hi all!

After some debate, and then the lack of comment on the latest
proposal, I'd like to make a *final* proposal for the establishment of
the Python Distributed Object SIG.

The title will be:

    DO-SIG

The short blurb will be

    DO-SIG: A Special Interest Group for Distributed Object
            programming in Python

And the mission/majordomo info/web page

     This SIG provides a forum for discussion of issues concerning the
     use of Distributed Object technologies with Python.  It is
     specifically charged with developing a CORBA binding for Python
     and submitting it to the OMG for standardisation.

     All aspects of distributed, object oriented programming in Python
     may be discussed. Examples include

        o design and development of a CORBA binding for Python
        o the use of other Distributed Object systems with Python,
          including ILU, Distributed OLE, ABB's OMF, and others.
        o Remote Method Invocation mechanism design and implementation
        o Distributed Objects and WWW integration
        o general Python distributed programming issues

     Here are some important addresses for using the list

        o Content submissions addr: do-sig@python.org
        o Subscriptions addr: do-sig-request@python.org
        o List admin addr: do-sig-admin@python.org
        o List owner addr: do-sig-owner@python.org

     (To get instructions on using the list, send a message containing
     only the word 'help' in the body to the subscriptions address,
     do-sig-request@python.org . You can contact the list owner if you
     need individual help.)

A (simply copied) HTML version is available at

  <http://www.dstc.edu.au/AU/staff/david-arnold/python-dosig.html>


Failing strenuous objection from influential people, I'd like to have
the appropriate web pages, mailing lists, accounts, etc. created and
announced ASAP.  Of course, if you really feel strongly that any
aspect of this is inappropriate, it's not too late for a last minute
change ...


Thanks,


-- David Arnold   ,=================================================
================='                              +617 3654310 (voice)
CRC for Distributed Systems Technology          +617 3654311   (fax)
University of Queensland                    davida@pobox.com (email)
Australia                     <http://www.pobox.com/~davida>   (web)

  C++ compilers rarely optimize for the joy of programming - lwall

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From jim.fulton@digicool.com  Wed Aug 28 12:36:49 1996
From: jim.fulton@digicool.com (Jim Fulton)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 07:36:49 -0400
Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] Re: (Final!) Proposal for Distributed Objects SIG
References: <199608280140.LAA00450@foxtail.dstc.edu.au>
Message-ID: <32242F51.5C65@digicool.com>

I move that we move forward with haste.  

Jim

David Arnold wrote:
> 
> Hi all!
> 
> After some debate, and then the lack of comment on the latest
> proposal, I'd like to make a *final* proposal for the establishment of
> the Python Distributed Object SIG.
> 
> The title will be:
> 
>     DO-SIG
> 
> The short blurb will be
> 
>     DO-SIG: A Special Interest Group for Distributed Object
>             programming in Python
> 
> And the mission/majordomo info/web page
> 
>      This SIG provides a forum for discussion of issues concerning the
>      use of Distributed Object technologies with Python.  It is
>      specifically charged with developing a CORBA binding for Python
>      and submitting it to the OMG for standardisation.
> 
>      All aspects of distributed, object oriented programming in Python
>      may be discussed. Examples include
> 
>         o design and development of a CORBA binding for Python
>         o the use of other Distributed Object systems with Python,
>           including ILU, Distributed OLE, ABB's OMF, and others.
>         o Remote Method Invocation mechanism design and implementation
>         o Distributed Objects and WWW integration
>         o general Python distributed programming issues
> 
>      Here are some important addresses for using the list
> 
>         o Content submissions addr: do-sig@python.org
>         o Subscriptions addr: do-sig-request@python.org
>         o List admin addr: do-sig-admin@python.org
>         o List owner addr: do-sig-owner@python.org
> 
>      (To get instructions on using the list, send a message containing
>      only the word 'help' in the body to the subscriptions address,
>      do-sig-request@python.org . You can contact the list owner if you
>      need individual help.)
> 
> A (simply copied) HTML version is available at
> 
>   <http://www.dstc.edu.au/AU/staff/david-arnold/python-dosig.html>
> 
> Failing strenuous objection from influential people, I'd like to have
> the appropriate web pages, mailing lists, accounts, etc. created and
> announced ASAP.  Of course, if you really feel strongly that any
> aspect of this is inappropriate, it's not too late for a last minute
> change ...
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -- David Arnold   ,=================================================
> ================='                              +617 3654310 (voice)
> CRC for Distributed Systems Technology          +617 3654311   (fax)
> University of Queensland                    davida@pobox.com (email)
> Australia                     <http://www.pobox.com/~davida>   (web)
> 
>   C++ compilers rarely optimize for the joy of programming - lwall

-- 
Jim Fulton         Digital Creations
jim@digicool.com   540.371.6909
## Python is my favorite language ##
##     http://www.python.org/     ##

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From Barry A. Warsaw" <bwarsaw@CNRI.Reston.Va.US  Wed Aug 28 14:04:02 1996
From: Barry A. Warsaw" <bwarsaw@CNRI.Reston.Va.US (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 09:04:02 -0400
Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] (Final!) Proposal for Distributed Objects SIG
References: <199608280140.LAA00450@foxtail.dstc.edu.au>
Message-ID: <199608281304.JAA16714@anthem.CNRI.Reston.Va.US>


>>>>> "DA" == David Arnold <arnold@dstc.edu.au> writes:

    DA> After some debate, and then the lack of comment on the latest
    DA> proposal, I'd like to make a *final* proposal for the
    DA> establishment of the Python Distributed Object SIG.

I will set up the Majordomo bits of the puzzle as soon as I get in to
work this morning...

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From paul@digicool.com  Wed Aug 28 14:22:21 1996
From: paul@digicool.com (Paul Everitt)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 09:22:21 -0400
Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] Re: (Final!) Proposal for Distributed Objects SIG
Message-ID: <199608281325.JAA20215@python.org>


No strenous objection here -- conveys the point(s) nicely.

--Paul

----------
> From: David Arnold <arnold@dstc.edu.au>
> To: meta-sig@python.org
> Cc: paul@gator.digicool.com; robh@gator.digicool.com;
jim@gator.digicool.com; bond@dstc.edu.au; martin@dstc.edu.au
> Subject: (Final!) Proposal for Distributed Objects SIG
> Date: Tuesday, August 27, 1996 9:40 PM
> 
> Hi all!
> 
> After some debate, and then the lack of comment on the latest
> proposal, I'd like to make a *final* proposal for the establishment of
> the Python Distributed Object SIG.
> 
> The title will be:
> 
>     DO-SIG
> 
> The short blurb will be
> 
>     DO-SIG: A Special Interest Group for Distributed Object
>             programming in Python
> 
> And the mission/majordomo info/web page
> 
>      This SIG provides a forum for discussion of issues concerning the
>      use of Distributed Object technologies with Python.  It is
>      specifically charged with developing a CORBA binding for Python
>      and submitting it to the OMG for standardisation.
> 
>      All aspects of distributed, object oriented programming in Python
>      may be discussed. Examples include
> 
>         o design and development of a CORBA binding for Python
>         o the use of other Distributed Object systems with Python,
>           including ILU, Distributed OLE, ABB's OMF, and others.
>         o Remote Method Invocation mechanism design and implementation
>         o Distributed Objects and WWW integration
>         o general Python distributed programming issues
> 
>      Here are some important addresses for using the list
> 
>         o Content submissions addr: do-sig@python.org
>         o Subscriptions addr: do-sig-request@python.org
>         o List admin addr: do-sig-admin@python.org
>         o List owner addr: do-sig-owner@python.org
> 
>      (To get instructions on using the list, send a message containing
>      only the word 'help' in the body to the subscriptions address,
>      do-sig-request@python.org . You can contact the list owner if you
>      need individual help.)
> 
> A (simply copied) HTML version is available at
> 
>   <http://www.dstc.edu.au/AU/staff/david-arnold/python-dosig.html>
> 
> 
> Failing strenuous objection from influential people, I'd like to have
> the appropriate web pages, mailing lists, accounts, etc. created and
> announced ASAP.  Of course, if you really feel strongly that any
> aspect of this is inappropriate, it's not too late for a last minute
> change ...
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> -- David Arnold   ,=================================================
> ================='                              +617 3654310 (voice)
> CRC for Distributed Systems Technology          +617 3654311   (fax)
> University of Queensland                    davida@pobox.com (email)
> Australia                     <http://www.pobox.com/~davida>   (web)
> 
>   C++ compilers rarely optimize for the joy of programming - lwall

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From majordomo-owner@python.org  Wed Aug 28 16:57:20 1996
From: majordomo-owner@python.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 11:57:20 -0400
Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] DO-SIG is operational
Message-ID: <199608281557.LAA16904@anthem.CNRI.Reston.Va.US>


Okay folks, the Majordomo part of the DO-SIG is up and running.
Please send an `info' command to do-sig-request@python.org and see if
you like the info page.  I've added a link from
<http://www.python.org/sigs/> and it looks like Ken's set up the
do-sig subdirectory, but the dir hasn't been populated yet.

I'll leave that up to David Arnold, the SIG champion.

-Barry


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From janssen@parc.xerox.com  Wed Aug 28 20:31:05 1996
From: janssen@parc.xerox.com (Bill Janssen)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 12:31:05 PDT
Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] (Final!) Proposal for Distributed Objects SIG
In-Reply-To: <199608280140.LAA00450@foxtail.dstc.edu.au>
References: <199608280140.LAA00450@foxtail.dstc.edu.au>
Message-ID: <Am99ttIB0KGW84dhNp@holmes.parc.xerox.com>

Excerpts from mail: 27-Aug-96 [PYTHON META-SIG] (Final!) .. David
Arnold@dstc.edu.au (2629)

>         o design and development of a CORBA binding for Python

Is there some particular reason we can't just use the ILU mapping, which
has been hashed out in discussions and use for more than three years now?

Bill

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From klm@CNRI.Reston.Va.US  Wed Aug 28 21:06:11 1996
From: klm@CNRI.Reston.Va.US (Ken Manheimer)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 16:06:11 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] DO-SIG is operational
In-Reply-To: <199608281557.LAA16904@anthem.CNRI.Reston.Va.US>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95.960828153239.443c-100000@glyph>

On Wed, 28 Aug 1996, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:

> Okay folks, the Majordomo part of the DO-SIG is up and running.
> Please send an `info' command to do-sig-request@python.org and see if
> you like the info page.  I've added a link from
> <http://www.python.org/sigs/> and it looks like Ken's set up the
> do-sig subdirectory, but the dir hasn't been populated yet.
> 
> I'll leave that up to David Arnold, the SIG champion.

I've populated the directory with some boilerplate.  David, see
<http://www.python.org/sigs/coordinator.html> for instructions on
administering the sig directory, if you don't already know about it -
you will use the do-sig mailing-list moderator's password to make any
changes. 

(And please do consider making some changes to at least the index file,
it really is stand-in stuff that should be replaced...) 

Ken


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From jim.fulton@digicool.com  Wed Aug 28 22:00:05 1996
From: jim.fulton@digicool.com (Jim Fulton)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 17:00:05 -0400
Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] (Final!) Proposal for Distributed Objects SIG
References: <199608280140.LAA00450@foxtail.dstc.edu.au> <Am99ttIB0KGW84dhNp@holmes.parc.xerox.com>
Message-ID: <3224B355.33D@digicool.com>

Bill Janssen wrote:
> 
> Excerpts from mail: 27-Aug-96 [PYTHON META-SIG] (Final!) .. David
> Arnold@dstc.edu.au (2629)
> 
> >         o design and development of a CORBA binding for Python
> 
> Is there some particular reason we can't just use the ILU mapping, which
> has been hashed out in discussions and use for more than three years now?

I don't see any reason why the ILU mapping would not be a darn good
start.

Jim

-- 
Jim Fulton         Digital Creations
jim@digicool.com   540.371.6909
## Python is my favorite language ##
##     http://www.python.org/     ##

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From davida@pobox.com  Wed Aug 28 23:53:12 1996
From: davida@pobox.com (David Arnold)
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 08:53:12 +1000
Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] DO-SIG is operational
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 28 Aug 1996 16:06:11 -0400."
 <Pine.SOL.3.95.960828153239.443c-100000@glyph>
Message-ID: <199608282253.IAA29527@foxtail.dstc.edu.au>

-->"Ken" == Ken Manheimer <klm@CNRI.Reston.VA.US> writes:
  Ken> On Wed, 28 Aug 1996, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:

  >> Okay folks, the Majordomo part of the DO-SIG is up and
  >> running. Please send an `info' command to
  >> do-sig-request@python.org and see if you like the info page.
  >> I've added a link from <http://www.python.org/sigs/> and it looks
  >> like Ken's set up the do-sig subdirectory, but the dir hasn't
  >> been populated yet.
  >> 
  >> I'll leave that up to David Arnold, the SIG champion.

  Ken> (And please do consider making some changes to at least the
  Ken> index file, it really is stand-in stuff that should be
  Ken> replaced...)

i'll set about tidying things up as soon as i organise the passwords
(hopefully today).

thanks to all!


-- David Arnold   ,=================================================
================='                              +617 3654310 (voice)
CRC for Distributed Systems Technology          +617 3654311   (fax)
University of Queensland                    davida@pobox.com (email)
Australia                     <http://www.pobox.com/~davida>   (web)

  C++ compilers rarely optimize for the joy of programming - lwall


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From davida@pobox.com  Thu Aug  1 01:39:03 1996
From: davida@pobox.com (David Arnold)
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 10:39:03 +1000
Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] Proposal for new SIG
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 31 Jul 1996 08:27:37 -0400."
 <199607311242.WAA11185@trapdoor.dstc.edu.au>
Message-ID: <199608010039.KAA07437@foxtail.dstc.edu.au>

Ok!  Thanks for your responses - there seem to be two issues to be
resolved:

1. the explicit inclusion of Microsoft's OLE (COM, ActiveX, ...) in
   the group's charter

2. possible names for the group/mailing list


Let me try to summarise ...

-->"Michael" == Michael McLay <mclay@eeel.nist.gov> writes:

  Michael> Should OLE be mentioned in the charter?  It's not
  Michael> distributed at this time, but that's the future claims.


Paul Everitt votes "no", citing the distributed objects crowd as being
a different group of people to the OLE crowd, but then changes his
mind as Jim Fulton thinks including OLE is a good idea.  Ken Manheimer
points out that the charter already covers "ORBs other than CORBA"
which would include a Distributed OLE.

I *do* think that OLE is important, especially now that it is built
in to NT4.0b2 and will be included in the "real" release.  I am
reluctant to focus on it because it is a very different universe to
CORBA and like ORBs.


Perhaps the second point of the charter

  o the use of ORBs other than CORBA with Python

could be expanded to

  o the use of other Distributed Object systems with Python, including
    ILU, Distributed OLE, <Daniel Larsson's ORB whose name i forget>,
    and others.


And to the name issue ...

-->"Robin" == Robin Friedrich <friedric@rose.rsoc.rockwell.com> writes:
  Robin> how about corba-sig? It seems as specific as the mission.

And then others followed with suggestions for "distobj-sig" with Roger
Masse pointing out that "DO" clashes with "Digital Object" in the
information science domain.


While I am sensitive to the state of Roger's mail folders ;-), I would
claim the DO is recogised as "Distributed Objects" in the DS domain
and doubtless many other things as well.  Which is probably an
argument that it is too generic.

I am very reluctant to call the group "corba-sig", especially since
the discussion at the conference which gave rise to the proposal was
generated by people using several different distributed object
systems.  CORBA is *too* focussed in my opinion.

Perhaps we can return to the conference proposal (which I attempted to
broaden) of an "ORB SIG"?  I favour DO-SIG as I feared that ORB-SIG
could be seen as being OMG CORBA specific, but perhaps it is the best
compromise?


Thanks again for your comments - how do you feel about the changes?


-- David Arnold   ,=================================================
================='                              +617 3654310 (voice)
CRC for Distributed Systems Technology          +617 3654311   (fax)
University of Queensland                    davida@pobox.com (email)
Australia                     <http://www.pobox.com/~davida>   (web)

  C++ compilers rarely optimize for the joy of programming - lwall



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From mclay@eeel.nist.gov  Thu Aug  1 08:23:05 1996
From: mclay@eeel.nist.gov (Michael McLay)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 07:23:05 GMT
Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] Proposal for new SIG
In-Reply-To: <199608010039.KAA07437@foxtail.dstc.edu.au>
References: <199607311242.WAA11185@trapdoor.dstc.edu.au>
 <199608010039.KAA07437@foxtail.dstc.edu.au>
Message-ID: <199608010723.HAA15977@fermi.eeel.nist.gov>

David Arnold writes:
 > 
 > I *do* think that OLE is important, especially now that it is built
 > in to NT4.0b2 and will be included in the "real" release.  I am
 > reluctant to focus on it because it is a very different universe to
 > CORBA and like ORBs.
 > 
 > 
 > Perhaps the second point of the charter
 > 
 >   o the use of ORBs other than CORBA with Python
 > 
 > could be expanded to
 > 
 >   o the use of other Distributed Object systems with Python, including
 >     ILU, Distributed OLE, <Daniel Larsson's ORB whose name i forget>,
 >     and others.

Perhaps the charter should be ammended to state that the purpose is to
work on the development of a CORBA to OLE bridge.  Positioning Python
as the preferred solution for bridging between these technologies would
be a real service to the industry.  It would also be the kind of high profile
activity that might bring more attention to the language.  

This final goal would first require defining a CORBA and OLE
interface, so those tasks would remain focused.  Perhaps the initial
thread of the SIG could be to discuss the feasibility of the project.

Is it agreed that the SIG name will be org-sig@python.org?

Michael


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From jim.fulton@digicool.com  Thu Aug  1 17:35:00 1996
From: jim.fulton@digicool.com (Jim Fulton)
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 12:35:00 -0400
Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] Proposal for new SIG
References: <199607311242.WAA11185@trapdoor.dstc.edu.au>
 <199608010039.KAA07437@foxtail.dstc.edu.au> <199608010723.HAA15977@fermi.eeel.nist.gov>
Message-ID: <3200DCB4.6B08@digicool.com>

Michael McLay wrote:
> 
> David Arnold writes:
>  >
>  > I *do* think that OLE is important, especially now that it is built
>  > in to NT4.0b2 and will be included in the "real" release.  I am
>  > reluctant to focus on it because it is a very different universe to
>  > CORBA and like ORBs.
>  >
>  >
>  > Perhaps the second point of the charter
>  >
>  >   o the use of ORBs other than CORBA with Python
>  >
>  > could be expanded to
>  >
>  >   o the use of other Distributed Object systems with Python, including
>  >     ILU, Distributed OLE, <Daniel Larsson's ORB whose name i forget>,
>  >     and others.
> 
> Perhaps the charter should be ammended to state that the purpose is to
> work on the development of a CORBA to OLE bridge.  Positioning Python
> as the preferred solution for bridging between these technologies would
> be a real service to the industry.  It would also be the kind of high profile
> activity that might bring more attention to the language.
> 
> This final goal would first require defining a CORBA and OLE
> interface, so those tasks would remain focused.  Perhaps the initial
> thread of the SIG could be to discuss the feasibility of the project.
> 

Well, that's swell, except that it is not what the original formers of
the
SIG intended.  The intial discussion started as, "Let's come up with and 
propose a Python binding to CORBA".  Unless someone signs on to do what
you said, then it certainly shouldn't be a focus of the SIG.

Jim

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From guido@CNRI.Reston.Va.US  Fri Aug  9 18:01:49 1996
From: guido@CNRI.Reston.Va.US (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 13:01:49 -0400
Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] Proposal for new SIG
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 01 Aug 1996 12:35:00 EDT."
 <3200DCB4.6B08@digicool.com>
References: <199607311242.WAA11185@trapdoor.dstc.edu.au> <199608010039.KAA07437@foxtail.dstc.edu.au> <199608010723.HAA15977@fermi.eeel.nist.gov>
 <3200DCB4.6B08@digicool.com>
Message-ID: <199608091701.NAA04768@monty>

The discussion on the do-sig seems to have died.  Is it to be created?
Are there still issues on the name?  Without having read every word
that has been said, do-sig seems the best choice to me (and to several
others at CNRI :-).

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)

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From klm@CNRI.Reston.Va.US  Tue Aug 13 18:27:14 1996
From: klm@CNRI.Reston.Va.US (Ken Manheimer)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 13:27:14 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] Re: ORB-SIG/DO-SIG/etc
In-Reply-To: <199608131422.AAA12199@foxtail.dstc.edu.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.960813131617.359L-100000@glyph>

We seem to be having some troubles converging on a name for the
distributed-objects sig, and that is keeping the thing from being
established.  It has a pretty clear mission statement, and useful work to
be done - would anyone *object* if we just named it do-sig, and got the
thing launched? 

Ken Manheimer		klm@cnri.reston.va.us	    703 620-8990 x268
	    (orporation for National Research |nitiatives
		      # I benefit from Python #
	# so i joined the PSA <http://www.python.org/psa/>. #

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From fredrik_lundh@ivab.se  Tue Aug 13 20:01:52 1996
From: fredrik_lundh@ivab.se (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 21:01:52 +0200
Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] Re: ORB-SIG/DO-SIG/etc
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.960813131617.359L-100000@glyph> (message from Ken
 Manheimer on Tue, 13 Aug 1996 13:27:14 -0400 (EDT))
Message-ID: <9608131901.AA27709@arnold.image.ivab.se>


Hmm.  I thought it was already settled, since someone announced it on
the main list...

(in my local universe, I still prefer orb for do, but any name is
surely better than no sig at all.  We cannot have too many sigs, at
least not as long as someone does some at least some work related to
them :-)

	/F

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From davida@pobox.com  Wed Aug 28 02:40:29 1996
From: davida@pobox.com (David Arnold)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 11:40:29 +1000
Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] (Final!) Proposal for Distributed Objects SIG
Message-ID: <199608280140.LAA00450@foxtail.dstc.edu.au>

Hi all!

After some debate, and then the lack of comment on the latest
proposal, I'd like to make a *final* proposal for the establishment of
the Python Distributed Object SIG.

The title will be:

    DO-SIG

The short blurb will be

    DO-SIG: A Special Interest Group for Distributed Object
            programming in Python

And the mission/majordomo info/web page

     This SIG provides a forum for discussion of issues concerning the
     use of Distributed Object technologies with Python.  It is
     specifically charged with developing a CORBA binding for Python
     and submitting it to the OMG for standardisation.

     All aspects of distributed, object oriented programming in Python
     may be discussed. Examples include

        o design and development of a CORBA binding for Python
        o the use of other Distributed Object systems with Python,
          including ILU, Distributed OLE, ABB's OMF, and others.
        o Remote Method Invocation mechanism design and implementation
        o Distributed Objects and WWW integration
        o general Python distributed programming issues

     Here are some important addresses for using the list

        o Content submissions addr: do-sig@python.org
        o Subscriptions addr: do-sig-request@python.org
        o List admin addr: do-sig-admin@python.org
        o List owner addr: do-sig-owner@python.org

     (To get instructions on using the list, send a message containing
     only the word 'help' in the body to the subscriptions address,
     do-sig-request@python.org . You can contact the list owner if you
     need individual help.)

A (simply copied) HTML version is available at

  <http://www.dstc.edu.au/AU/staff/david-arnold/python-dosig.html>


Failing strenuous objection from influential people, I'd like to have
the appropriate web pages, mailing lists, accounts, etc. created and
announced ASAP.  Of course, if you really feel strongly that any
aspect of this is inappropriate, it's not too late for a last minute
change ...


Thanks,


-- David Arnold   ,=================================================
================='                              +617 3654310 (voice)
CRC for Distributed Systems Technology          +617 3654311   (fax)
University of Queensland                    davida@pobox.com (email)
Australia                     <http://www.pobox.com/~davida>   (web)

  C++ compilers rarely optimize for the joy of programming - lwall

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From jim.fulton@digicool.com  Wed Aug 28 12:36:49 1996
From: jim.fulton@digicool.com (Jim Fulton)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 07:36:49 -0400
Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] Re: (Final!) Proposal for Distributed Objects SIG
References: <199608280140.LAA00450@foxtail.dstc.edu.au>
Message-ID: <32242F51.5C65@digicool.com>

I move that we move forward with haste.  

Jim

David Arnold wrote:
> 
> Hi all!
> 
> After some debate, and then the lack of comment on the latest
> proposal, I'd like to make a *final* proposal for the establishment of
> the Python Distributed Object SIG.
> 
> The title will be:
> 
>     DO-SIG
> 
> The short blurb will be
> 
>     DO-SIG: A Special Interest Group for Distributed Object
>             programming in Python
> 
> And the mission/majordomo info/web page
> 
>      This SIG provides a forum for discussion of issues concerning the
>      use of Distributed Object technologies with Python.  It is
>      specifically charged with developing a CORBA binding for Python
>      and submitting it to the OMG for standardisation.
> 
>      All aspects of distributed, object oriented programming in Python
>      may be discussed. Examples include
> 
>         o design and development of a CORBA binding for Python
>         o the use of other Distributed Object systems with Python,
>           including ILU, Distributed OLE, ABB's OMF, and others.
>         o Remote Method Invocation mechanism design and implementation
>         o Distributed Objects and WWW integration
>         o general Python distributed programming issues
> 
>      Here are some important addresses for using the list
> 
>         o Content submissions addr: do-sig@python.org
>         o Subscriptions addr: do-sig-request@python.org
>         o List admin addr: do-sig-admin@python.org
>         o List owner addr: do-sig-owner@python.org
> 
>      (To get instructions on using the list, send a message containing
>      only the word 'help' in the body to the subscriptions address,
>      do-sig-request@python.org . You can contact the list owner if you
>      need individual help.)
> 
> A (simply copied) HTML version is available at
> 
>   <http://www.dstc.edu.au/AU/staff/david-arnold/python-dosig.html>
> 
> Failing strenuous objection from influential people, I'd like to have
> the appropriate web pages, mailing lists, accounts, etc. created and
> announced ASAP.  Of course, if you really feel strongly that any
> aspect of this is inappropriate, it's not too late for a last minute
> change ...
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -- David Arnold   ,=================================================
> ================='                              +617 3654310 (voice)
> CRC for Distributed Systems Technology          +617 3654311   (fax)
> University of Queensland                    davida@pobox.com (email)
> Australia                     <http://www.pobox.com/~davida>   (web)
> 
>   C++ compilers rarely optimize for the joy of programming - lwall

-- 
Jim Fulton         Digital Creations
jim@digicool.com   540.371.6909
## Python is my favorite language ##
##     http://www.python.org/     ##

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From Barry A. Warsaw" <bwarsaw@CNRI.Reston.Va.US  Wed Aug 28 14:04:02 1996
From: Barry A. Warsaw" <bwarsaw@CNRI.Reston.Va.US (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 09:04:02 -0400
Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] (Final!) Proposal for Distributed Objects SIG
References: <199608280140.LAA00450@foxtail.dstc.edu.au>
Message-ID: <199608281304.JAA16714@anthem.CNRI.Reston.Va.US>


>>>>> "DA" == David Arnold <arnold@dstc.edu.au> writes:

    DA> After some debate, and then the lack of comment on the latest
    DA> proposal, I'd like to make a *final* proposal for the
    DA> establishment of the Python Distributed Object SIG.

I will set up the Majordomo bits of the puzzle as soon as I get in to
work this morning...

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From paul@digicool.com  Wed Aug 28 14:22:21 1996
From: paul@digicool.com (Paul Everitt)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 09:22:21 -0400
Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] Re: (Final!) Proposal for Distributed Objects SIG
Message-ID: <199608281325.JAA20215@python.org>


No strenous objection here -- conveys the point(s) nicely.

--Paul

----------
> From: David Arnold <arnold@dstc.edu.au>
> To: meta-sig@python.org
> Cc: paul@gator.digicool.com; robh@gator.digicool.com;
jim@gator.digicool.com; bond@dstc.edu.au; martin@dstc.edu.au
> Subject: (Final!) Proposal for Distributed Objects SIG
> Date: Tuesday, August 27, 1996 9:40 PM
> 
> Hi all!
> 
> After some debate, and then the lack of comment on the latest
> proposal, I'd like to make a *final* proposal for the establishment of
> the Python Distributed Object SIG.
> 
> The title will be:
> 
>     DO-SIG
> 
> The short blurb will be
> 
>     DO-SIG: A Special Interest Group for Distributed Object
>             programming in Python
> 
> And the mission/majordomo info/web page
> 
>      This SIG provides a forum for discussion of issues concerning the
>      use of Distributed Object technologies with Python.  It is
>      specifically charged with developing a CORBA binding for Python
>      and submitting it to the OMG for standardisation.
> 
>      All aspects of distributed, object oriented programming in Python
>      may be discussed. Examples include
> 
>         o design and development of a CORBA binding for Python
>         o the use of other Distributed Object systems with Python,
>           including ILU, Distributed OLE, ABB's OMF, and others.
>         o Remote Method Invocation mechanism design and implementation
>         o Distributed Objects and WWW integration
>         o general Python distributed programming issues
> 
>      Here are some important addresses for using the list
> 
>         o Content submissions addr: do-sig@python.org
>         o Subscriptions addr: do-sig-request@python.org
>         o List admin addr: do-sig-admin@python.org
>         o List owner addr: do-sig-owner@python.org
> 
>      (To get instructions on using the list, send a message containing
>      only the word 'help' in the body to the subscriptions address,
>      do-sig-request@python.org . You can contact the list owner if you
>      need individual help.)
> 
> A (simply copied) HTML version is available at
> 
>   <http://www.dstc.edu.au/AU/staff/david-arnold/python-dosig.html>
> 
> 
> Failing strenuous objection from influential people, I'd like to have
> the appropriate web pages, mailing lists, accounts, etc. created and
> announced ASAP.  Of course, if you really feel strongly that any
> aspect of this is inappropriate, it's not too late for a last minute
> change ...
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> -- David Arnold   ,=================================================
> ================='                              +617 3654310 (voice)
> CRC for Distributed Systems Technology          +617 3654311   (fax)
> University of Queensland                    davida@pobox.com (email)
> Australia                     <http://www.pobox.com/~davida>   (web)
> 
>   C++ compilers rarely optimize for the joy of programming - lwall

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From majordomo-owner@python.org  Wed Aug 28 16:57:20 1996
From: majordomo-owner@python.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 11:57:20 -0400
Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] DO-SIG is operational
Message-ID: <199608281557.LAA16904@anthem.CNRI.Reston.Va.US>


Okay folks, the Majordomo part of the DO-SIG is up and running.
Please send an `info' command to do-sig-request@python.org and see if
you like the info page.  I've added a link from
<http://www.python.org/sigs/> and it looks like Ken's set up the
do-sig subdirectory, but the dir hasn't been populated yet.

I'll leave that up to David Arnold, the SIG champion.

-Barry


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From janssen@parc.xerox.com  Wed Aug 28 20:31:05 1996
From: janssen@parc.xerox.com (Bill Janssen)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 12:31:05 PDT
Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] (Final!) Proposal for Distributed Objects SIG
In-Reply-To: <199608280140.LAA00450@foxtail.dstc.edu.au>
References: <199608280140.LAA00450@foxtail.dstc.edu.au>
Message-ID: <Am99ttIB0KGW84dhNp@holmes.parc.xerox.com>

Excerpts from mail: 27-Aug-96 [PYTHON META-SIG] (Final!) .. David
Arnold@dstc.edu.au (2629)

>         o design and development of a CORBA binding for Python

Is there some particular reason we can't just use the ILU mapping, which
has been hashed out in discussions and use for more than three years now?

Bill

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From klm@CNRI.Reston.Va.US  Wed Aug 28 21:06:11 1996
From: klm@CNRI.Reston.Va.US (Ken Manheimer)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 16:06:11 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] DO-SIG is operational
In-Reply-To: <199608281557.LAA16904@anthem.CNRI.Reston.Va.US>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95.960828153239.443c-100000@glyph>

On Wed, 28 Aug 1996, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:

> Okay folks, the Majordomo part of the DO-SIG is up and running.
> Please send an `info' command to do-sig-request@python.org and see if
> you like the info page.  I've added a link from
> <http://www.python.org/sigs/> and it looks like Ken's set up the
> do-sig subdirectory, but the dir hasn't been populated yet.
> 
> I'll leave that up to David Arnold, the SIG champion.

I've populated the directory with some boilerplate.  David, see
<http://www.python.org/sigs/coordinator.html> for instructions on
administering the sig directory, if you don't already know about it -
you will use the do-sig mailing-list moderator's password to make any
changes. 

(And please do consider making some changes to at least the index file,
it really is stand-in stuff that should be replaced...) 

Ken


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From jim.fulton@digicool.com  Wed Aug 28 22:00:05 1996
From: jim.fulton@digicool.com (Jim Fulton)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 17:00:05 -0400
Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] (Final!) Proposal for Distributed Objects SIG
References: <199608280140.LAA00450@foxtail.dstc.edu.au> <Am99ttIB0KGW84dhNp@holmes.parc.xerox.com>
Message-ID: <3224B355.33D@digicool.com>

Bill Janssen wrote:
> 
> Excerpts from mail: 27-Aug-96 [PYTHON META-SIG] (Final!) .. David
> Arnold@dstc.edu.au (2629)
> 
> >         o design and development of a CORBA binding for Python
> 
> Is there some particular reason we can't just use the ILU mapping, which
> has been hashed out in discussions and use for more than three years now?

I don't see any reason why the ILU mapping would not be a darn good
start.

Jim

-- 
Jim Fulton         Digital Creations
jim@digicool.com   540.371.6909
## Python is my favorite language ##
##     http://www.python.org/     ##

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From davida@pobox.com  Wed Aug 28 23:53:12 1996
From: davida@pobox.com (David Arnold)
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 08:53:12 +1000
Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] DO-SIG is operational
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 28 Aug 1996 16:06:11 -0400."
 <Pine.SOL.3.95.960828153239.443c-100000@glyph>
Message-ID: <199608282253.IAA29527@foxtail.dstc.edu.au>

-->"Ken" == Ken Manheimer <klm@CNRI.Reston.VA.US> writes:
  Ken> On Wed, 28 Aug 1996, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:

  >> Okay folks, the Majordomo part of the DO-SIG is up and
  >> running. Please send an `info' command to
  >> do-sig-request@python.org and see if you like the info page.
  >> I've added a link from <http://www.python.org/sigs/> and it looks
  >> like Ken's set up the do-sig subdirectory, but the dir hasn't
  >> been populated yet.
  >> 
  >> I'll leave that up to David Arnold, the SIG champion.

  Ken> (And please do consider making some changes to at least the
  Ken> index file, it really is stand-in stuff that should be
  Ken> replaced...)

i'll set about tidying things up as soon as i organise the passwords
(hopefully today).

thanks to all!


-- David Arnold   ,=================================================
================='                              +617 3654310 (voice)
CRC for Distributed Systems Technology          +617 3654311   (fax)
University of Queensland                    davida@pobox.com (email)
Australia                     <http://www.pobox.com/~davida>   (web)

  C++ compilers rarely optimize for the joy of programming - lwall


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