[PYTHON META-SIG] My thoughts on mailing lists

[Guido van Rossum]

Looks good!

Some minor things only:

> The SIG's will be archived but not digestified, and the raw archives
> will be `get'able via MD.

For example, how do I get the archives for the pdo-admin list?  In
what format do I get it?

> Every SIG list should have an info file
> (<topic>-sig.info under /home/majordomo/Lists) generated by the list
> owner, and a password file (<topic>-sig.passwd).  The owner of the
> list can choose the password.

Once you know the password, how do you know the extended command set
that this (presumably) enables?

> As for moderation, I'm inclined to go with no moderation, and no
> restrict-post.  Moderation means that all posts get bounced to the
> list owner, who must then resend it with an Approve: header.
> Restrict-post means that unapproved messages can only be posted by
> members of the list (otherwise they get bounced to the owner who can
> resubmit with an Approved: header).  No-mod, no-restrict is the least
> painful for the owner, but I guess we should leave it up to the SIG
> owner to decide the post policy.

I would strongly suggest that all sigs start as open as possible and
that moderation or restrict-post only be added when there's a proven
need (i.e. when the list is being abused more than sporadically).

> These MD commands can be restricted to list members only: get, index,
> info, which, who.  My preference for the SIG lists is to make these
> non-private (non-members can use them too).  Again, we can decide this
> on a per-list basis.

Anyway, restricting these only makes sense if subscription is
restricted...

> Guido mentioned putting mail robots on some aliases which just send
> back the SIG's info.  Well, we probably don't need this because if
> someone sends a message to <topic>-sig-request@python.org, perhaps
> with the word `help' in the body, MD will by default send them some MD
> help information, and then the list specific info file.

Cool!

> So... here are the aliases I propose setting up:
> 
>   General:
>     sigs       -- alias to majordomo
>     sigs-info  -- alias to sigs
>     owner-sigs -- alias to majordomo-owner (or pdo-admin?)

I'm not sure that we need these...

>   Topics:
>     meta-sig     -- a SIG about SIGs (owner: bwarsaw)
>     locator-sig  -- Python Locator Service SIG (owner: peveritt)
>     docproj-sig  -- Documentation Project SIG (owner: mclay)

Perhaps just "doc-sig"?

>     gui-sig      -- Common GUI SIG (owners: jfulton, klm)
>     matrix-sig   -- Matrix Algebra SIG (owner: jfulton)
>     workshop-sig -- Workshop Organization SIG (owner: volunteers?)

Add:
      opt-sig      -- Optimization (owner: guido)

>     owner-psa        -- rmasse, bwarsaw, guido, mclay, klm, peveritt,
>                         jfulton, nick

That list is probably a bit big -- we don't need everyone in this list
to see all the bounces and messages requiring approval.  Anyway, what
happens if there are two or more owners and both forward a message for
approval?  Does it get posted twice?

On the other hand, if there is to be a list of the "PSA activists", I
suggest adding Robin Friedrich <friedric@rose.rsoc.rockwell.com>.

>  [*]so when are we gonna see PSA checks from you non-CNRI'ers? :-)

When someone (Paul?  Michael?) sends a message to the list asking for
checks...  Currently the procedure for becoming a member isn't very
clear at all from the Web server, and non-webbers don't know anything
about this...

> Python aliases would be similar to the PSA aliases, except that
> subscription policy would be open, and there'd be no restrict-post.
> For now python-list and python-list-request would be aliased to cwi.nl
> but we'd move them over at some point.  Since these are probably going
> to be fairly large lists (do you know how many people, Guido?), we may
> need to investigate something like the bulk_mail program which
> supposedly speeds up sendmail delivered lists.

Actually, there are currently only ~130 people subscribed, and it's
not really growing (it was once at 200) because most people read it
using News.

> Guido suggests setting up python-help, python-bugs, and python-gripes.
> Do we need all these?  Fine with me if we really do, but maybe
> python-help or python-bugs would suffice.

Alias all three to me, for now, so we can announce them.

> python-developers?
> 
> python-users?  How would this differ from python-list?

These two mailing lists serve different purposes from the list @ CWI.
They are intended for those people who specifically don't want usenet
news users to be part of their audience.  We should probably discuss
creation of these two on python-list@cwi.nl first.

> Okay, so what do you all think?  Have I missed anything?  Anything not
> make sense?  At this point only pdo-admin and meta-sig actually exist.

I suggest that it's up to the proposed owners to give Barry the
go-ahead for creation of the list, after which the owner can then
announce the creation of the SIG and its mailing list on the
python-list.  I'll add the SIGs to the relevant web page as they are
created.  I would like to also add the SIG's info (and perhaps other
files) to the web page.  This could be done automatically if I can
find out why the http daemon currently doesn't seem to follow symbolic
links...

Perhaps Barry can suggest some boilerplate verbiage that the owner can
include in the announcement, explaining how to use the SIG (so each
owner doesn't have to write what's essentially the same text)?

--Guido van Rossum <guido@CNRI.Reston.VA.US>
URL: <http://www.python.org/~guido/>

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