[melbourne-pug] [pyconau-orgs] Permanent links to Code of Conduct
Simon Cropper
simoncropper at fossworkflowguides.com
Sun Apr 12 17:18:02 CEST 2015
Having carefully read the Linux Australia Code of Conduct stored here
https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/blob/master/code_of_conduct.md
I believe that it provides a reasonable starting point for MPUG's code
of conduct.
It does however serve as a template for their conferences - an activity
that equates to the monthly MPUG meetings - but does not address other
activities that open source communities are usually involved -- website
design, on-line content creation, email lists, fora, etc.
Consequently, at some stage, the text will need to be augmented to
ensure all activities are covered or generalized to act as a set of
principles community members abide.
On 12/04/15 22:14, Mike Dewhirst wrote:
> Hear hear!
>
> On 12/04/2015 7:11 PM, Chris Maclachlan wrote:
>> Hi all,Â
>>
>> I've been lurking on the list for about a year, and I've only been to
>> one MPUG meetup so far - but I've read the entire discussion around this
>> with some interest. The community seems to be open, friendly, welcoming,
>> well-behaved and professional, so the discussion of a need for a code of
>> conduct at all initially surprised me - but having given it some
>> thought, I've seen first-hand how one bad seed can ruin things for
>> everyone, and it's frustrating at the best of times when it happens -
>> doubly so when the rules weren't laid down from the start.Â
>>
>> So, having said all that, as a humble list-lurker, I just wanted to
>> personally voice my approval and support for MPUG adopting the Linux AU
>> CoC. I think it will provide a good underpinning for this group, and
>> encourage professionalism and inclusiveness without imposing any
>> overbearing regulations.Â
>>
>> (Also, I think it's fantastic that Javier has championed this effort,
>> and I love the transparent and democratic method in which he's gone
>> about it. We're lucky to have people like him as part of this
>> community). Â
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>> Â
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 10:39 PM Javier Candeira <javier at candeira.com
>> <mailto:javier at candeira.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi MPUG.
>>
>> As you can see by the discussion with Pycon AU and Linux Australia
>> people (quoted below), they think MPUG should move to the Linux
>> Australia Code of Conduct. It will be soon the one used by Pycon AU
>> as well anyway.
>>
>> I've been persuaded, and I will change the links in the wiki and the
>> mailing list website header if no strong dissent is registered on
>> this list in the next 48 hours. Hopefully this will be the end of
>> this matter.
>>
>> If instead of dissent you want to express approval and support,
>> that's cool as well. In fact I'd personally appreciate it.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Javier
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 4:39 PM, Javier Candeira <javier at candeira.com
>> <mailto:javier at candeira.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks, Chris.
>>
>> If Pycon AU adopts the LA code of conduct, that would make me (I
>> speak personally) want MPUG to adopt it too. And many of the
>> other reasons for it (MPUG organisers and presenters are also
>> involved with Pycon, so their acceptance of the CoC is a given
>> in many cases) would stand too. Let's say that we'd be adopting
>> the Pycon AU CoC by reference, not by value.
>>
>> Note that it's my opinion that a small user group has different
>> dynamics than a big conference, so the language itself did not
>> bother me much. I think the signaling aspect of having a CoC at
>> all and the commitment of the organisers to take issues seriusly
>> is much more important than the wording of the CoC. Having said
>> that, it's always better to adopt a well-maintained document.
>>
>> For the reasons above I'm going to suggest on the MPUG list that
>> we adopt the LA CoC too, "since it's the one used by Pycon AU".
>> When do you expect/hope the Pycon AU organisation to make the
>> decision to switch?
>>
>> J
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 4:31 PM, Chris Neugebauer
>> <chrisjrn at gmail.com <mailto:chrisjrn at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> On 9 April 2015 at 04:06, Joshua Hesketh <josh at nitrotech.org
>> <mailto:josh at nitrotech.org>> wrote:
>> >
>> > The code of conduct isn't hard coded into the source but
>> rather supplied as
>> > part of the content management system built into
>> zookeepr. This year the URL
>> > is here:http://2015.pycon-au.org/register/code_of_conduct
>> >
>> >
>> > I'm actually surprised PyCon AU hasn't moved to Linux
>> Australia's one which
>> > has had a lot of work put into it and been exercised at
>> multiple different
>> > events (including debconf and others outside of just
>> Linux Australia). I
>> > understand less people of MPUG may have seen it, but I
>> personally don't see
>> > that as a reason not to use it.
>> >
>> > There is no obvious license on the pyconau 2015 code of
>> conduct so I'll
>> > leave that to others to reply.
>>
>> Javier,
>>
>> Some explanation as to the current code of conduct; some
>> detailed
>> reasons as to why you shouldn't adopt it; and some reasons
>> if you do
>> decide to adopt it, why you shouldn't link back to PyCon
>> AU's instance
>> of it.
>>
>> A large part of the reason why PyCon AU has continued to use
>> the older
>> CoC is inertia -- many PyCon sponsors (especially the Python
>> Software
>> Foundation themselves) have required a declaration that a
>> conference
>> would adopt a code of conduct before agreeing to sponsor.
>> Pointing
>> back at an old Code of Conduct (which has been used
>> successfully for
>> some years now) has been sufficient for that.
>>
>> Certainly when I was directly involved in the day-to-day
>> running of
>> the conference, I was hesitant to change the code after
>> telling the
>> sponsor what our decision was.
>>
>> This year I've been responding with the historical code and
>> the LA
>> code. I've flagged with Clinton the intention of using the
>> Linux
>> Australia code of conduct, and I believe consideration has
>> been given
>> to this.
>>
>> My view is that MPUG should be adopting a LA's code of
>> conduct, or a
>> variant thereof, rather than the historical PyCon AU one:
>>
>> - It is more detailed than PyCon AU's, but it covers all
>> of the
>> provisions of the old PyCon AU code of conduct.
>> - Likewise, the LA code of conduct, written after PyCon AU's
>> contains
>> many of identical provisions: enforcement rules, and the
>> preamble,
>> were taken almost identically from the PyCon AU 2011 code.
>> - It is not location-specific -- PyCon AU's code specifies
>> things
>> specific to the location of the conference. MPUG would need
>> to fork
>> PyCon AU's code of conduct in order to make it appropriate
>> to their
>> place of meeting.
>> - PyCon AU's code of conduct specifies in detail expected
>> behaviour of
>> presenters[0], but much less so for delegates
>> - LA's code of conduct has been iterated by several
>> organisations
>> other than LA, including Debconf, which has resulted in
>> amending
>> language where the code has proved problematic to enforce
>> [1][2].
>>
>> As for whether you should be linking to PyCon AU's code
>> directly, I
>> also say no:
>> - If you adopt the 2014 version, you'll be telling your
>> members that
>> you'll alert Queensland police to incidents.
>> - the code will not remain static over the years. The
>> current code
>> requires minor changes every two years.
>> - There is also the chance that we'll change the code
>> completely (i.e.
>> to adopt LA's code of conduct).
>>
>> --Chris
>>
>> [0] A large part of this is, in my opinion, due to when the
>> code was
>> written, and the concerns of the community at the time
>> [1]
>>
>> https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/commit/b8dfbb633bdb7ad1d16dee39f746345b2b85cfd8
>>
>> [2]
>>
>> https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/commit/043e78288a33615f8dca775ce0857c37e6a7f660
>>
>>
>> --
>> --Christopher Neugebauer
>>
>> Jabber: chrisjrn at gmail.com <mailto:chrisjrn at gmail.com> --
>> IRC: chrisjrn on irc.freenode.net
>> <http://irc.freenode.net> --
>> WWW: http://chris.neugebauer.id.au -- Twitter: @chrisjrn
>>
>>
>>
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