From noonslists at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 01:01:07 2015 From: noonslists at gmail.com (Noon Silk) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2015 10:01:07 +1100 Subject: [melbourne-pug] PyCon Australia 2015 Call for Proposals is Open! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Is there a plan to host this thing in Melbourne at some point? On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 6:49 PM, Clinton Roy wrote: > Closes Friday 8th May > > PyCon Australia 2015 is pleased to announce that its Call for Proposals is > now open! > > The conference this year will be held on Saturday 1st and Sunday 2nd > August 2015 in Brisbane. We'll also be featuring a day of Miniconfs on > Friday 31st July. > > The deadline for proposal submission is *Friday 8th May, 2015*. > > PyCon Australia attracts professional developers from all walks of life, > including industry, government, and science, as well as enthusiast and > student developers. We?re looking for proposals for presentations and > tutorials on any aspect of Python programming, at all skill levels from > novice to advanced. > > Presentation subjects may range from reports on open source, academic or > commercial projects; or even tutorials and case studies. If a presentation > is interesting and useful to the Python community, it will be considered > for inclusion in the program. > > We're especially interested in short presentations that will teach > conference-goers something new and useful. Can you show attendees how to > use a module? Explore a Python language feature? Package an application? > Miniconfs > > Four Miniconfs will be held on Friday 31st July, as a prelude to the main > conference. Miniconfs are run by community members and are separate to the > main conference. If you are a first time speaker, or your talk is targeted > to a particular field, the Miniconfs might be a better fit than the main > part of the conference. If your proposal is not selected for the main part > of the conference, it may be selected for one of our Miniconfs: > > *DjangoCon AU* is the annual conference of Django users in the Southern > Hemisphere. It covers all aspects of web software development, from design > to deployment - and, of course, the use of the Django framework itself. It > provides an excellent opportunity to discuss the state of the art of web > software development with other developers and designers. > > The *Python in Education Miniconf* aims to bring together community > workshop organisers, professional Python instructors and professional > educators across primary, secondary and tertiary levels to share their > experiences and requirements, and identify areas of potential collaboration > with each other and also with the broader Python community. > > The *Science and Data Miniconf* is a forum for people using Python to > tackle problems in science and data analysis. It aims to cover commercial > and research interests in applications of science, engineering, > mathematics, finance, and data analysis using Python, including AI and 'big > data' topics. > > The *OpenStack Miniconf* is dedicated to talks related to the OpenStack > project and we welcome proposals of all kinds: technical, community, > infrastructure or code talks/discussions; academic or commercial > applications; or even tutorials and case studies. If a presentation is > interesting and useful to the OpenStack community, it will be considered > for inclusion. We also welcome talks that have been given previously in > different events. > First Time Speakers > > We welcome first-time speakers; we are a community conference and we are > eager to hear about your experience. If you have friends or colleagues who > have something valuable to contribute, twist their arms to tell us about > it! Please also forward this Call for Proposals to anyone that you feel may > be interested. > > The most recent call for proposals information can always be found at: > http://pycon-au.org/cfp > > See you in Brisbane in July! > Important Dates > > 1. Call for Proposals opens > : Friday 27th > March, 2015 > 2. Proposal submission deadline: Friday 8th May, 2015 > 3. Proposal acceptance: Monday 25 May, 2015 > > > -- > Clinton Roy > Lead Organiser > PyCon Australia 2015 > > _______________________________________________ > melbourne-pug mailing list > melbourne-pug at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug > > -- Noon Silk, ? https://sites.google.com/site/noonsilk/ "Every morning when I wake up, I experience an exquisite joy ? the joy of being this signature." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chausler at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 01:12:29 2015 From: chausler at gmail.com (Chris Hausler) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 23:12:29 +0000 Subject: [melbourne-pug] PyCon Australia 2015 Call for Proposals is Open! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That would be cool. I'll come :-) On Wed, 1 Apr 2015 at 10:02 Noon Silk wrote: > Is there a plan to host this thing in Melbourne at some point? > > On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 6:49 PM, Clinton Roy > wrote: > >> Closes Friday 8th May >> >> PyCon Australia 2015 is pleased to announce that its Call for Proposals >> is now open! >> >> The conference this year will be held on Saturday 1st and Sunday 2nd >> August 2015 in Brisbane. We'll also be featuring a day of Miniconfs on >> Friday 31st July. >> >> The deadline for proposal submission is *Friday 8th May, 2015*. >> >> PyCon Australia attracts professional developers from all walks of life, >> including industry, government, and science, as well as enthusiast and >> student developers. We?re looking for proposals for presentations and >> tutorials on any aspect of Python programming, at all skill levels from >> novice to advanced. >> >> Presentation subjects may range from reports on open source, academic or >> commercial projects; or even tutorials and case studies. If a presentation >> is interesting and useful to the Python community, it will be considered >> for inclusion in the program. >> >> We're especially interested in short presentations that will teach >> conference-goers something new and useful. Can you show attendees how to >> use a module? Explore a Python language feature? Package an application? >> Miniconfs >> >> Four Miniconfs will be held on Friday 31st July, as a prelude to the main >> conference. Miniconfs are run by community members and are separate to the >> main conference. If you are a first time speaker, or your talk is targeted >> to a particular field, the Miniconfs might be a better fit than the main >> part of the conference. If your proposal is not selected for the main part >> of the conference, it may be selected for one of our Miniconfs: >> >> *DjangoCon AU* is the annual conference of Django users in the Southern >> Hemisphere. It covers all aspects of web software development, from design >> to deployment - and, of course, the use of the Django framework itself. It >> provides an excellent opportunity to discuss the state of the art of web >> software development with other developers and designers. >> >> The *Python in Education Miniconf* aims to bring together community >> workshop organisers, professional Python instructors and professional >> educators across primary, secondary and tertiary levels to share their >> experiences and requirements, and identify areas of potential collaboration >> with each other and also with the broader Python community. >> >> The *Science and Data Miniconf* is a forum for people using Python to >> tackle problems in science and data analysis. It aims to cover commercial >> and research interests in applications of science, engineering, >> mathematics, finance, and data analysis using Python, including AI and 'big >> data' topics. >> >> The *OpenStack Miniconf* is dedicated to talks related to the OpenStack >> project and we welcome proposals of all kinds: technical, community, >> infrastructure or code talks/discussions; academic or commercial >> applications; or even tutorials and case studies. If a presentation is >> interesting and useful to the OpenStack community, it will be considered >> for inclusion. We also welcome talks that have been given previously in >> different events. >> First Time Speakers >> >> We welcome first-time speakers; we are a community conference and we are >> eager to hear about your experience. If you have friends or colleagues who >> have something valuable to contribute, twist their arms to tell us about >> it! Please also forward this Call for Proposals to anyone that you feel may >> be interested. >> >> The most recent call for proposals information can always be found at: >> http://pycon-au.org/cfp >> >> See you in Brisbane in July! >> Important Dates >> >> 1. Call for Proposals opens >> : Friday 27th >> March, 2015 >> 2. Proposal submission deadline: Friday 8th May, 2015 >> 3. Proposal acceptance: Monday 25 May, 2015 >> >> >> -- >> Clinton Roy >> Lead Organiser >> PyCon Australia 2015 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> melbourne-pug mailing list >> melbourne-pug at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug >> >> > > > -- > Noon Silk, ? > > https://sites.google.com/site/noonsilk/ > > "Every morning when I wake up, I experience an exquisite joy ? the joy > of being this signature." > _______________________________________________ > melbourne-pug mailing list > melbourne-pug at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.leslie.ttg at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 01:13:45 2015 From: william.leslie.ttg at gmail.com (William ML Leslie) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2015 10:13:45 +1100 Subject: [melbourne-pug] PyCon Australia 2015 Call for Proposals is Open! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Lets not reply-all (: On 1 April 2015 at 10:12, Chris Hausler wrote: > That would be cool. I'll come :-) > > On Wed, 1 Apr 2015 at 10:02 Noon Silk wrote: > >> Is there a plan to host this thing in Melbourne at some point? >> >> On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 6:49 PM, Clinton Roy >> wrote: >> >>> Closes Friday 8th May >>> >>> PyCon Australia 2015 is pleased to announce that its Call for Proposals >>> is now open! >>> >>> The conference this year will be held on Saturday 1st and Sunday 2nd >>> August 2015 in Brisbane. We'll also be featuring a day of Miniconfs on >>> Friday 31st July. >>> >>> The deadline for proposal submission is *Friday 8th May, 2015*. >>> >>> PyCon Australia attracts professional developers from all walks of life, >>> including industry, government, and science, as well as enthusiast and >>> student developers. We?re looking for proposals for presentations and >>> tutorials on any aspect of Python programming, at all skill levels from >>> novice to advanced. >>> >>> Presentation subjects may range from reports on open source, academic or >>> commercial projects; or even tutorials and case studies. If a presentation >>> is interesting and useful to the Python community, it will be considered >>> for inclusion in the program. >>> >>> We're especially interested in short presentations that will teach >>> conference-goers something new and useful. Can you show attendees how to >>> use a module? Explore a Python language feature? Package an application? >>> Miniconfs >>> >>> Four Miniconfs will be held on Friday 31st July, as a prelude to the >>> main conference. Miniconfs are run by community members and are separate to >>> the main conference. If you are a first time speaker, or your talk is >>> targeted to a particular field, the Miniconfs might be a better fit than >>> the main part of the conference. If your proposal is not selected for the >>> main part of the conference, it may be selected for one of our Miniconfs: >>> >>> *DjangoCon AU* is the annual conference of Django users in the Southern >>> Hemisphere. It covers all aspects of web software development, from design >>> to deployment - and, of course, the use of the Django framework itself. It >>> provides an excellent opportunity to discuss the state of the art of web >>> software development with other developers and designers. >>> >>> The *Python in Education Miniconf* aims to bring together community >>> workshop organisers, professional Python instructors and professional >>> educators across primary, secondary and tertiary levels to share their >>> experiences and requirements, and identify areas of potential collaboration >>> with each other and also with the broader Python community. >>> >>> The *Science and Data Miniconf* is a forum for people using Python to >>> tackle problems in science and data analysis. It aims to cover commercial >>> and research interests in applications of science, engineering, >>> mathematics, finance, and data analysis using Python, including AI and 'big >>> data' topics. >>> >>> The *OpenStack Miniconf* is dedicated to talks related to the OpenStack >>> project and we welcome proposals of all kinds: technical, community, >>> infrastructure or code talks/discussions; academic or commercial >>> applications; or even tutorials and case studies. If a presentation is >>> interesting and useful to the OpenStack community, it will be considered >>> for inclusion. We also welcome talks that have been given previously in >>> different events. >>> First Time Speakers >>> >>> We welcome first-time speakers; we are a community conference and we are >>> eager to hear about your experience. If you have friends or colleagues who >>> have something valuable to contribute, twist their arms to tell us about >>> it! Please also forward this Call for Proposals to anyone that you feel may >>> be interested. >>> >>> The most recent call for proposals information can always be found at: >>> http://pycon-au.org/cfp >>> >>> See you in Brisbane in July! >>> Important Dates >>> >>> 1. Call for Proposals opens >>> : Friday 27th >>> March, 2015 >>> 2. Proposal submission deadline: Friday 8th May, 2015 >>> 3. Proposal acceptance: Monday 25 May, 2015 >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Clinton Roy >>> Lead Organiser >>> PyCon Australia 2015 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> melbourne-pug mailing list >>> melbourne-pug at python.org >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Noon Silk, ? >> >> https://sites.google.com/site/noonsilk/ >> >> "Every morning when I wake up, I experience an exquisite joy ? the joy >> of being this signature." >> _______________________________________________ >> melbourne-pug mailing list >> melbourne-pug at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug >> > > _______________________________________________ > melbourne-pug mailing list > melbourne-pug at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug > > -- William Leslie Notice: Likely much of this email is, by the nature of copyright, covered under copyright law. You absolutely MAY reproduce any part of it in accordance with the copyright law of the nation you are reading this in. Any attempt to DENY YOU THOSE RIGHTS would be illegal without prior contractual agreement. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tleeuwenburg at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 01:17:45 2015 From: tleeuwenburg at gmail.com (Tennessee Leeuwenburg) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2015 10:17:45 +1100 Subject: [melbourne-pug] PyCon Australia 2015 Call for Proposals is Open! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm pretty sure the plan is for Melbourne for the next two years. It rotates between bidding cities on a two-year timeframe. I'm not sure if it's definite but I understand Melbourne does have a bid in for 2016. Which, if it comes together, will be awesome. On 1 April 2015 at 10:01, Noon Silk wrote: > Is there a plan to host this thing in Melbourne at some point? > > On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 6:49 PM, Clinton Roy > wrote: > >> Closes Friday 8th May >> >> PyCon Australia 2015 is pleased to announce that its Call for Proposals >> is now open! >> >> The conference this year will be held on Saturday 1st and Sunday 2nd >> August 2015 in Brisbane. We'll also be featuring a day of Miniconfs on >> Friday 31st July. >> >> The deadline for proposal submission is *Friday 8th May, 2015*. >> >> PyCon Australia attracts professional developers from all walks of life, >> including industry, government, and science, as well as enthusiast and >> student developers. We?re looking for proposals for presentations and >> tutorials on any aspect of Python programming, at all skill levels from >> novice to advanced. >> >> Presentation subjects may range from reports on open source, academic or >> commercial projects; or even tutorials and case studies. If a presentation >> is interesting and useful to the Python community, it will be considered >> for inclusion in the program. >> >> We're especially interested in short presentations that will teach >> conference-goers something new and useful. Can you show attendees how to >> use a module? Explore a Python language feature? Package an application? >> Miniconfs >> >> Four Miniconfs will be held on Friday 31st July, as a prelude to the main >> conference. Miniconfs are run by community members and are separate to the >> main conference. If you are a first time speaker, or your talk is targeted >> to a particular field, the Miniconfs might be a better fit than the main >> part of the conference. If your proposal is not selected for the main part >> of the conference, it may be selected for one of our Miniconfs: >> >> *DjangoCon AU* is the annual conference of Django users in the Southern >> Hemisphere. It covers all aspects of web software development, from design >> to deployment - and, of course, the use of the Django framework itself. It >> provides an excellent opportunity to discuss the state of the art of web >> software development with other developers and designers. >> >> The *Python in Education Miniconf* aims to bring together community >> workshop organisers, professional Python instructors and professional >> educators across primary, secondary and tertiary levels to share their >> experiences and requirements, and identify areas of potential collaboration >> with each other and also with the broader Python community. >> >> The *Science and Data Miniconf* is a forum for people using Python to >> tackle problems in science and data analysis. It aims to cover commercial >> and research interests in applications of science, engineering, >> mathematics, finance, and data analysis using Python, including AI and 'big >> data' topics. >> >> The *OpenStack Miniconf* is dedicated to talks related to the OpenStack >> project and we welcome proposals of all kinds: technical, community, >> infrastructure or code talks/discussions; academic or commercial >> applications; or even tutorials and case studies. If a presentation is >> interesting and useful to the OpenStack community, it will be considered >> for inclusion. We also welcome talks that have been given previously in >> different events. >> First Time Speakers >> >> We welcome first-time speakers; we are a community conference and we are >> eager to hear about your experience. If you have friends or colleagues who >> have something valuable to contribute, twist their arms to tell us about >> it! Please also forward this Call for Proposals to anyone that you feel may >> be interested. >> >> The most recent call for proposals information can always be found at: >> http://pycon-au.org/cfp >> >> See you in Brisbane in July! >> Important Dates >> >> 1. Call for Proposals opens >> : Friday 27th >> March, 2015 >> 2. Proposal submission deadline: Friday 8th May, 2015 >> 3. Proposal acceptance: Monday 25 May, 2015 >> >> >> -- >> Clinton Roy >> Lead Organiser >> PyCon Australia 2015 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> melbourne-pug mailing list >> melbourne-pug at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug >> >> > > > -- > Noon Silk, ? > > https://sites.google.com/site/noonsilk/ > > "Every morning when I wake up, I experience an exquisite joy ? the joy > of being this signature." > > _______________________________________________ > melbourne-pug mailing list > melbourne-pug at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug > > -- -------------------------------------------------- Tennessee Leeuwenburg http://myownhat.blogspot.com/ "Don't believe everything you think" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gcross at fastmail.fm Wed Apr 1 14:56:07 2015 From: gcross at fastmail.fm (Graeme Cross) Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2015 23:56:07 +1100 Subject: [melbourne-pug] Fwd: Invitation: R v Python- round 1 (and our first birthday party !!!) Message-ID: <1427892967.1602862.248042237.70C17EC9@webmail.messagingengine.com> Hi everyone. This might be of interest given the Python angle... Regards, Graeme ----- Original message ----- From: Data Science Melbourne Subject: Invitation: R v Python- round 1 (and our first birthday party !!!) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2015 16:37:25 -0400 Meetup New Meetup R v Python- round 1 (and our first birthday party !!!)[1] Data Science Melbourne Added by Phil Brierley Thursday, April 23, 2015 6:00 PM Inspire 9 Level 1 41 Stewart Street Richmond Are you going? Yes[2] No[3] 91 Data Scientists going, including: Tirath Ramdas[4] "An aspiring data plumber." Anh Dinh[5] "I am Data Engineer from Zendesk" Yuval Marom[6] "I run the Analytics & Data Services team at iSelect, so yes, I love data, and I love doing cool stuff with data." Phil Brierley[7] "My interest is extracting insight from data. This involves data manipulation, visualisation and predictive modelling." Patrick[8] Mark Moloney[9] "x" At the last meetup we surveyed attendees and concluded R & Python were the two most popular tools used by our members. For this meetup, we have two introductory talks on these languages followed by a joint Q & A session. Oh, and i... Learn more[10] More Meetups from this group[11] Apr 17 Data Science Breakfast Seminar #1[12] Friday, April 17, 2015 7:30 AM ? 160 attending RSVP[13] May 26 Rob Hyndman[14] Tuesday, May 26, 2015 6:00 PM ? 29 attending RSVP[15] Links: 1. http://www.meetup.com/__ms13324209/Data-Science-Melbourne/events/220621408/t/ea1_grp/?rv=ea1&_af=event&_af_eid=220621408&expires=1427920645114&sig=5d2032aa65e6baeceea82f6346b72f6da5f78888 2. http://www.meetup.com/__ms13324209/Data-Science-Melbourne/events/220621408/t/ea1_lnm/?refund_policy=true&rv=ea1&_af=event&_af_eid=220621408&response=3&action=rsvp&fromEmail=220621408&expires=1427920645114&sig=9838e5b43ce840136443c7ce234fca80ee0da10d 3. http://www.meetup.com/__ms13324209/Data-Science-Melbourne/events/220621408/t/ea1_lnm/?refund_policy=true&rv=ea1&_af=event&_af_eid=220621408&response=2&action=rsvp&expires=1427920645114&sig=78121574e70bf0c41a63916dc47bc3fc29b02dd7 4. http://www.meetup.com/Data-Science-Melbourne/members/17486921/t/ea1_fcs/ 5. http://www.meetup.com/Data-Science-Melbourne/members/10293276/t/ea1_fcs/ 6. http://www.meetup.com/Data-Science-Melbourne/members/12349115/t/ea1_fcs/ 7. http://www.meetup.com/Data-Science-Melbourne/members/5209164/t/ea1_fcs/ 8. http://www.meetup.com/Data-Science-Melbourne/members/174788412/t/ea1_fcs/ 9. http://www.meetup.com/Data-Science-Melbourne/members/13482264/t/ea1_fcs/ 10. http://www.meetup.com/Data-Science-Melbourne/events/220621408/t/ea1_grp/?rv=ea1 11. http://www.meetup.com/Data-Science-Melbourne/ 12. http://www.meetup.com/__ms13324209/Data-Science-Melbourne/events/220000573/t/ea1_evn/?rv=ea1&_af=event&_af_eid=220000573&expires=1427920645121&sig=6bc21ffe69fe275770d6db1d99b97fc013dadeb9 13. http://www.meetup.com/__ms13324209/Data-Science-Melbourne/events/220000573/t/ea1_evn/?rv=ea1&_af=event&_af_eid=220000573&expires=1427920645121&sig=6bc21ffe69fe275770d6db1d99b97fc013dadeb9 14. http://www.meetup.com/__ms13324209/Data-Science-Melbourne/events/220621482/t/ea1_evn/?rv=ea1&_af=event&_af_eid=220621482&expires=1427920645122&sig=f79491bc74df739037bda2e8bf4661959cfb42c2 15. http://www.meetup.com/__ms13324209/Data-Science-Melbourne/events/220621482/t/ea1_evn/?rv=ea1&_af=event&_af_eid=220621482&expires=1427920645122&sig=f79491bc74df739037bda2e8bf4661959cfb42c2 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rdm at iashew.com Thu Apr 2 03:14:24 2015 From: rdm at iashew.com (Nik Skoufis) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2015 01:14:24 +0000 Subject: [melbourne-pug] Python developer wanted Message-ID: <663B8964-EC31-4242-ABC8-13C62D0F0D3A@iashew.com> Our small company is looking to hire a Python developer for an ambitious, global scale project on a 30 hour+ per week basis, for 3-6 months. An ideal candidate would have the following attributes: 2-3 years industry experience Industry experience writing software with a Python GUI toolkit. Mathematics background, preferably in statistics or data analysis Must be willing to sign an NDA Innovative thinker with the ability to tackle problems from new directions. Remuneration negotiable. Work location would be either the city or south eastern suburbs. Candidates should be ready to start now or in the very near future. Send application to md at iashew.com. Details of the project will be given once an application is provided. From javier at candeira.com Tue Apr 7 23:38:50 2015 From: javier at candeira.com (Javier Candeira) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 23:38:50 +0200 Subject: [melbourne-pug] Code of Conduct for MPUG In-Reply-To: References: <8A3A8899-FECF-4BF1-9BF0-FF13423A85A2@kerberos.davies.net.au> <8BAEA0AD-6D4D-4FB7-B681-F62E1F4CB142@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: Ok, so I finally put some language about a Code of Conduct in the Mailing list as well: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug As to the script for the opening spiel, I'll let that in the TODO chapter for now. Regards, Javier On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 6:50 PM, Brianna Laugher wrote: > Hi, > > Thanks Javier, I think this is a great initiative. > > I think two things would be useful: being specific about who are the > points of contact. Perhaps this could be part of the intro spiel. Ideally > they would be mentioned by name and be standing at the front of the room to > be visible. > > Second is having a clear idea about what action those people might take, > when a report is made. The Geek Feminism wiki has a ton of information on > Code of Conducts and a page all about responding to reports: > http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Conference_anti-harassment/Responding_to_reports > > I suggest this as a starting point, not that everything here should be > adopted wholesale for MPUG. I think it is important that the organisers > "own" the policy in that they have been deliberate in their thinking and > this is actively how they want to approach it. > > Another thing that is cool is encouraging bystanders to speak up if they > hear/see something inappropriate. I went to a talk by Karen Sandler earlier > this year and she had the whole audience practice saying "Dude, that's not > cool". It is pretty cheesy but it's not a bad ice-breaker, and I actually > heard someone at a later talk say it - so it works! I think this is really > great because a lot of small things may not constitute harassment but > nonetheless can make you feel unwelcome. Having someone else speak up like > that feels amazing. And also, it shows that you don't have to perfectly > articulate exactly why something was inappropriate, or berate someone for > what may be an innocent or just thoughtless mistake. > > cheers, > Brianna > > > > On 10 March 2015 at 14:34, Huw Davies > wrote: > >> >> On 10 Mar 2015, at 1:56 am, Tim Krins wrote: >> >> Hi Huw, >> >> It is probably because the link you clicked on in this email is part of >> the Wiki wording, and the sending email client has include the pipe >> character in the URL it detected. >> >> If you strip out the wiki markdown formatting, you will get >> http://2013.pycon-au.org/register/code_of_conduct , which should link >> you to the article. >> >> >> Thanks to all who pointed this out. Now that I can see it, I very much >> agree with it. >> >> Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au >> >> Melbourne | "If soccer was meant to be played in the >> >> Australia | air, the sky would be painted green" >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> melbourne-pug mailing list >> melbourne-pug at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug >> >> > > > -- > They've just been waiting in a mountain for the right moment: > http://modernthings.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > melbourne-pug mailing list > melbourne-pug at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From simoncropper at fossworkflowguides.com Wed Apr 8 01:50:22 2015 From: simoncropper at fossworkflowguides.com (Simon Cropper) Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2015 09:50:22 +1000 Subject: [melbourne-pug] Code of Conduct for MPUG In-Reply-To: References: <8A3A8899-FECF-4BF1-9BF0-FF13423A85A2@kerberos.davies.net.au> <8BAEA0AD-6D4D-4FB7-B681-F62E1F4CB142@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: <55246D3E.8040801@fossworkflowguides.com> Hi Javier, Neither the link [1] in the mail list header or the wiki actually work. [1] http://2013.pycon-au.org/register/code_of_conduct If you Google "pycon code of conduct" you get multiple versions from around the world. The most appropriate is probably what can be found on the PyCon GitHub page [2] [2] https://github.com/python/pycon-code-of-conduct/blob/master/code_of_conduct.md That said I notice that PyCon has a new subdomain for this year's conference and the following URL resolves [3] [3] http://2015.pycon-au.org/register/code_of_conduct Interestingly, or just to confuse matters, the dialogue on this page does not match any of the text referenced above. In addition, if you go to the Linux Australia page and drill down to the code of conduct [4] it reads completely different to what is found on any of the fore-mentioned pages. [4] https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/blob/master/code_of_conduct.md As a interested observer, I am surprised that after what seems like months of debate someone has not forked one of the PyCon Templates on GitHub and modified it to the Melbourne PUG needs. Cheers Simon On 08/04/15 07:38, Javier Candeira wrote: > Ok, so I finally put some language about a Code of Conduct in the > Mailing list as well: > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug > > As to the script for the opening spiel, I'll let that in the TODO > chapter for now. > > Regards, > > Javier > > On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 6:50 PM, Brianna Laugher > > wrote: > > Hi, > > Thanks Javier, I think this is a great initiative. > > I think two things would be useful: being specific about who are the > points of contact. Perhaps this could be part of the intro spiel. > Ideally they would be mentioned by name and be standing at the front > of the room to be visible. > > Second is having a clear idea about what action those people might > take, when a report is made. The Geek Feminism wiki has a ton of > information on Code of Conducts and a page all about responding to > reports: > http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Conference_anti-harassment/Responding_to_reports > > I suggest this as a starting point, not that everything here should > be adopted wholesale for MPUG. I think it is important that the > organisers "own" the policy in that they have been deliberate in > their thinking and this is actively how they want to approach it. > > Another thing that is cool is encouraging bystanders to speak up if > they hear/see something inappropriate. I went to a talk by Karen > Sandler earlier this year and she had the whole audience practice > saying "Dude, that's not cool". It is pretty cheesy but it's not a > bad ice-breaker, and I actually heard someone at a later talk say it > - so it works! I think this is really great because a lot of small > things may not constitute harassment but nonetheless can make you > feel unwelcome. Having someone else speak up like that feels > amazing. And also, it shows that you don't have to perfectly > articulate exactly why something was inappropriate, or berate > someone for what may be an innocent or just thoughtless mistake. > > cheers, > Brianna > > > > On 10 March 2015 at 14:34, Huw Davies > > wrote: > > >> On 10 Mar 2015, at 1:56 am, Tim Krins > > wrote: >> >> Hi Huw, >> >> It is probably because the link you clicked on in this email >> is part of the Wiki wording, and the sending email client has >> include the pipe character in the URL it detected. >> >> If you strip out the wiki markdown formatting, you will get >> http://2013.pycon-au.org/register/code_of_conduct , which >> should link you to the article. > > Thanks to all who pointed this out. Now that I can see it, I > very much agree with it. > > Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au > > > Melbourne| "If soccer was meant to be played in the > > Australia| air, the sky would be painted green" > > > > _______________________________________________ > melbourne-pug mailing list > melbourne-pug at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug > > > > > -- > They've just been waiting in a mountain for the right moment: > http://modernthings.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > melbourne-pug mailing list > melbourne-pug at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug > > > > > _______________________________________________ > melbourne-pug mailing list > melbourne-pug at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug > From javier at candeira.com Thu Apr 9 09:19:47 2015 From: javier at candeira.com (Javier Candeira) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2015 09:19:47 +0200 Subject: [melbourne-pug] Code of Conduct for MPUG In-Reply-To: <55246D3E.8040801@fossworkflowguides.com> References: <8A3A8899-FECF-4BF1-9BF0-FF13423A85A2@kerberos.davies.net.au> <8BAEA0AD-6D4D-4FB7-B681-F62E1F4CB142@kerberos.davies.net.au> <55246D3E.8040801@fossworkflowguides.com> Message-ID: Thanks, Simon! Neither the link [1] in the mail list header or the wiki actually work. > > [1] http://2013.pycon-au.org/register/code_of_conduct > Yes, I just copypasted the link from the wiki into the mailing list header, without checking that it actually works. It did at the time I put it into the wiki. That said I notice that PyCon has a new subdomain for this year's > conference and the following URL resolves [3] > > [3] http://2015.pycon-au.org/register/code_of_conduct > Thanks, changed it in both places. I'm also writing to the Pycon AU people to ask them for a non-expiring link to the Code of Conduct. > > As a interested observer, I am surprised that after what seems like months > of debate someone Yeah, it's been under a month (barely), and mostly because I'm moving between two continents, and taking forever to answer emails. > has not forked one of the PyCon Templates on GitHub and modified it to the > Melbourne PUG needs. > If you want to commit to marshall that discussion, brook an agreement and maintain the final text, be my guest. MPUG needs organisers, and not just to find talks, move chairs and order pizza. As for myself, these are the reasons I've steered this discussion towards the Pycon AU CoC and no other: - All of the MPUG organisers already attend or even help organise Pycon AU, so I knew that I would not be committing them to something they don't agree to when I suggested we use the Pycon AU Code of Conduct. - It's short. I participate in other projects, some of which have put in a lot of attention and care into their Codes of Conduct. These are also longer documents, and I wanted something that can be easily read. The truth is that a Code of Conduct is more a public statement of intentinos than a legal document. CoCs are always going to leave some leeway for interpretation, but 99% of their effect is in saying publically "we care about this things", and in the good response in case of complaints. The other 1% is in the details of the CoC, and I don't want that 1% to take 90% of the available efffort, as often happens. - I don't want to propose, get agreement to and maintain a Code of Conduct text. It's something I, personally, don't have the time or inclination to do. It's also something of a distraction in a resource-limited project like MPUG. If I had more time to give, I'd organise workshops. And I say this as the person who proposed we should have a CoC, edited the wiki to add it, and asked to be added as a mailing list admin in order to also add it to the mailing list header. Having said that, MPUG could use organisers. Nobody hired me besides asking me to organise pizza one day the person who did it could not attend. The next week, I was mailing people for talks so the programme could be ready a week before the meetup date, and now it looks like I have a position, when I just have a set of tasks I do, when I can do them. Same for the rest of organisers. If anyone in the mailing list wants to appoint themselves as a MPUG organiser, there is an infinite number of positions available, and you mostly choose what you want to work on. We're a friendly bunch! Regards, Javier -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From javier at candeira.com Thu Apr 9 09:22:16 2015 From: javier at candeira.com (Javier Candeira) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2015 09:22:16 +0200 Subject: [melbourne-pug] Permanent links to Code of Conduct Message-ID: Hi, Pycon-AU, At MPUG we are using a link to Pycon AU's Code of Conduct as an example of our own procedure in case of complaints. If needed, here's our mailing list thread for background: First email in thread: https://mail.python.org/pipermail/melbourne-pug/2015-March/002255.html Message about link expiry: https://mail.python.org/pipermail/melbourne-pug/2015-April/002320.html Last (so far) email in thread: https://mail.python.org/pipermail/melbourne-pug/2015-April/002321.html However, the yearly links (in the 2014 registration, etc) expire. Could you please provide a non-dated, non-expiring link we could use permanently? Thanks, Javier Candeira, MPUG person. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From josh at nitrotech.org Thu Apr 9 12:27:01 2015 From: josh at nitrotech.org (Joshua Hesketh) Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2015 20:27:01 +1000 Subject: [melbourne-pug] [pyconau-orgs] Permanent links to Code of Conduct In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <552653F5.4000709@nitrotech.org> Hello Javier, You can find a copy of Linux Australia's Code of Conduct under a creative commons license here: https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/blob/master/code_of_conduct.md You're also welcome to fork it for your own use and suggest improvements via pull requests. Cheers, Josh On 09/04/15 17:22, Javier Candeira wrote: > Hi, Pycon-AU, > > At MPUG we are using a link to Pycon AU's Code of Conduct as an > example of our own procedure in case of complaints. If needed, here's > our mailing list thread for background: > > First email in thread: > https://mail.python.org/pipermail/melbourne-pug/2015-March/002255.html > Message about link expiry: > https://mail.python.org/pipermail/melbourne-pug/2015-April/002320.html > Last (so far) email in thread: > https://mail.python.org/pipermail/melbourne-pug/2015-April/002321.html > > However, the yearly links (in the 2014 registration, etc) expire. > > Could you please provide a non-dated, non-expiring link we could use > permanently? > > Thanks, > > Javier Candeira, MPUG person. > > > > _______________________________________________ > pyconau-orgs mailing list > pyconau-orgs at lists.linux.org.au > http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/pyconau-orgs -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From javier at candeira.com Thu Apr 9 12:57:20 2015 From: javier at candeira.com (Javier Candeira) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2015 12:57:20 +0200 Subject: [melbourne-pug] [pyconau-orgs] Permanent links to Code of Conduct In-Reply-To: <552653F5.4000709@nitrotech.org> References: <552653F5.4000709@nitrotech.org> Message-ID: Thanks a lot, Josh. Two notes on why your answer doesn't work for my question: - I'm trying to avoid forking and maintaining the code myself, as well as gathering the necessary consensus on every word of the language. If someone in the MPUG community cares enough to do it, well, they can, but I won't. My proposal was that we adopt the Pycon AU code of Conduct. The LCA code is a different text. - Why the Pycon AU's CoC and no other? Because 100% of our organisers and most of our presenters already attend Pycon AU, so they already subscribe it. It's also shorter than other options, so less to read and discuss. MPUG is resource-starved, I wanted to avoid spending cycles on the CoC, and just adopt one, announce it, move on. Longer version of this rationale on the linked mailing list thread. I hadn't thought of it until this very moment, but if the pycon-au site is in source control anywhere, and you can give me access, I can just offer a patch via Pull Request where the Pycon AU CoC is served from a stable URL, something like http://pycon-au.org/code_of_conduct/ , and then link there. Would that be acceptable? It's always nice to interact with you, even if it's business talk! Regards, J On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 12:27 PM, Joshua Hesketh wrote: > Hello Javier, > > You can find a copy of Linux Australia's Code of Conduct under a creative > commons license here: > > https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/blob/master/code_of_conduct.md > > You're also welcome to fork it for your own use and suggest improvements > via pull requests. > > Cheers, > Josh > > > On 09/04/15 17:22, Javier Candeira wrote: > > Hi, Pycon-AU, > > At MPUG we are using a link to Pycon AU's Code of Conduct as an example > of our own procedure in case of complaints. If needed, here's our mailing > list thread for background: > > First email in thread: > https://mail.python.org/pipermail/melbourne-pug/2015-March/002255.html > Message about link expiry: > https://mail.python.org/pipermail/melbourne-pug/2015-April/002320.html > Last (so far) email in thread: > https://mail.python.org/pipermail/melbourne-pug/2015-April/002321.html > > However, the yearly links (in the 2014 registration, etc) expire. > > Could you please provide a non-dated, non-expiring link we could use > permanently? > > Thanks, > > Javier Candeira, MPUG person. > > > > _______________________________________________ > pyconau-orgs mailing listpyconau-orgs at lists.linux.org.auhttp://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/pyconau-orgs > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From josh at nitrotech.org Thu Apr 9 13:06:18 2015 From: josh at nitrotech.org (Joshua Hesketh) Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2015 21:06:18 +1000 Subject: [melbourne-pug] [pyconau-orgs] Permanent links to Code of Conduct In-Reply-To: References: <552653F5.4000709@nitrotech.org> Message-ID: <55265D2A.6030506@nitrotech.org> Hello again Javier, The code of conduct isn't hard coded into the source but rather supplied as part of the content management system built into zookeepr. This year the URL is here: http://2015.pycon-au.org/register/code_of_conduct Placing a copy on the main pycon-au domain could be tricky as it implies that it is always in effect. However there may be need to update the code-of-conduct between years and as such we need to host an individual copy with each conference iteration as a reflection of what that years attendees agreed to. I'm actually surprised PyCon AU hasn't moved to Linux Australia's one which has had a lot of work put into it and been exercised at multiple different events (including debconf and others outside of just Linux Australia). I understand less people of MPUG may have seen it, but I personally don't see that as a reason not to use it. There is no obvious license on the pyconau 2015 code of conduct so I'll leave that to others to reply. Cheers, Josh On 09/04/15 20:57, Javier Candeira wrote: > Thanks a lot, Josh. > > Two notes on why your answer doesn't work for my question: > > - I'm trying to avoid forking and maintaining the code myself, as well > as gathering the necessary consensus on every word of the language. If > someone in the MPUG community cares enough to do it, well, they can, > but I won't. My proposal was that we adopt the Pycon AU code of > Conduct. The LCA code is a different text. > > - Why the Pycon AU's CoC and no other? Because 100% of our organisers > and most of our presenters already attend Pycon AU, so they already > subscribe it. It's also shorter than other options, so less to read > and discuss. MPUG is resource-starved, I wanted to avoid spending > cycles on the CoC, and just adopt one, announce it, move on. Longer > version of this rationale on the linked mailing list thread. > > I hadn't thought of it until this very moment, but if the pycon-au > site is in source control anywhere, and you can give me access, I can > just offer a patch via Pull Request where the Pycon AU CoC is served > from a stable URL, something like http://pycon-au.org/code_of_conduct/ > , and then link there. > > Would that be acceptable? > > It's always nice to interact with you, even if it's business talk! > > Regards, > > J > > On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 12:27 PM, Joshua Hesketh > wrote: > > Hello Javier, > > You can find a copy of Linux Australia's Code of Conduct under a > creative commons license here: > https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/blob/master/code_of_conduct.md > > You're also welcome to fork it for your own use and suggest > improvements via pull requests. > > Cheers, > Josh > > > On 09/04/15 17:22, Javier Candeira wrote: >> Hi, Pycon-AU, >> >> At MPUG we are using a link to Pycon AU's Code of Conduct as an >> example of our own procedure in case of complaints. If needed, >> here's our mailing list thread for background: >> >> First email in thread: >> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/melbourne-pug/2015-March/002255.html >> Message about link expiry: >> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/melbourne-pug/2015-April/002320.html >> Last (so far) email in thread: >> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/melbourne-pug/2015-April/002321.html >> >> However, the yearly links (in the 2014 registration, etc) expire. >> >> Could you please provide a non-dated, non-expiring link we could >> use permanently? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Javier Candeira, MPUG person. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pyconau-orgs mailing list >> pyconau-orgs at lists.linux.org.au >> http://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/pyconau-orgs > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From javier at candeira.com Thu Apr 9 13:15:53 2015 From: javier at candeira.com (Javier Candeira) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2015 13:15:53 +0200 Subject: [melbourne-pug] [pyconau-orgs] Permanent links to Code of Conduct In-Reply-To: <55265D2A.6030506@nitrotech.org> References: <552653F5.4000709@nitrotech.org> <55265D2A.6030506@nitrotech.org> Message-ID: Understood, thanks. I'll wait for a further reply before taking any action. Cheers, J On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 1:06 PM, Joshua Hesketh wrote: > Hello again Javier, > > The code of conduct isn't hard coded into the source but rather supplied > as part of the content management system built into zookeepr. This year the > URL is here: http://2015.pycon-au.org/register/code_of_conduct > > Placing a copy on the main pycon-au domain could be tricky as it implies > that it is always in effect. However there may be need to update the > code-of-conduct between years and as such we need to host an individual > copy with each conference iteration as a reflection of what that years > attendees agreed to. > > I'm actually surprised PyCon AU hasn't moved to Linux Australia's one > which has had a lot of work put into it and been exercised at multiple > different events (including debconf and others outside of just Linux > Australia). I understand less people of MPUG may have seen it, but I > personally don't see that as a reason not to use it. > > There is no obvious license on the pyconau 2015 code of conduct so I'll > leave that to others to reply. > > Cheers, > Josh > > > On 09/04/15 20:57, Javier Candeira wrote: > > Thanks a lot, Josh. > > Two notes on why your answer doesn't work for my question: > > - I'm trying to avoid forking and maintaining the code myself, as well as > gathering the necessary consensus on every word of the language. If someone > in the MPUG community cares enough to do it, well, they can, but I won't. > My proposal was that we adopt the Pycon AU code of Conduct. The LCA code is > a different text. > > - Why the Pycon AU's CoC and no other? Because 100% of our organisers and > most of our presenters already attend Pycon AU, so they already subscribe > it. It's also shorter than other options, so less to read and discuss. MPUG > is resource-starved, I wanted to avoid spending cycles on the CoC, and just > adopt one, announce it, move on. Longer version of this rationale on the > linked mailing list thread. > > I hadn't thought of it until this very moment, but if the pycon-au site > is in source control anywhere, and you can give me access, I can just offer > a patch via Pull Request where the Pycon AU CoC is served from a stable > URL, something like http://pycon-au.org/code_of_conduct/ , and then link > there. > > Would that be acceptable? > > It's always nice to interact with you, even if it's business talk! > > Regards, > > J > > On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 12:27 PM, Joshua Hesketh > wrote: > >> Hello Javier, >> >> You can find a copy of Linux Australia's Code of Conduct under a creative >> commons license here: >> >> https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/blob/master/code_of_conduct.md >> >> You're also welcome to fork it for your own use and suggest improvements >> via pull requests. >> >> Cheers, >> Josh >> >> >> On 09/04/15 17:22, Javier Candeira wrote: >> >> Hi, Pycon-AU, >> >> At MPUG we are using a link to Pycon AU's Code of Conduct as an example >> of our own procedure in case of complaints. If needed, here's our mailing >> list thread for background: >> >> First email in thread: >> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/melbourne-pug/2015-March/002255.html >> Message about link expiry: >> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/melbourne-pug/2015-April/002320.html >> Last (so far) email in thread: >> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/melbourne-pug/2015-April/002321.html >> >> However, the yearly links (in the 2014 registration, etc) expire. >> >> Could you please provide a non-dated, non-expiring link we could use >> permanently? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Javier Candeira, MPUG person. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pyconau-orgs mailing listpyconau-orgs at lists.linux.org.auhttp://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo/pyconau-orgs >> >> >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chrisjrn at gmail.com Thu Apr 9 16:31:49 2015 From: chrisjrn at gmail.com (Chris Neugebauer) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2015 07:31:49 -0700 Subject: [melbourne-pug] [pyconau-orgs] Permanent links to Code of Conduct In-Reply-To: <55265D2A.6030506@nitrotech.org> References: <552653F5.4000709@nitrotech.org> <55265D2A.6030506@nitrotech.org> Message-ID: On 9 April 2015 at 04:06, Joshua Hesketh wrote: > > The code of conduct isn't hard coded into the source but rather supplied as > part of the content management system built into zookeepr. This year the URL > is here: http://2015.pycon-au.org/register/code_of_conduct > > > I'm actually surprised PyCon AU hasn't moved to Linux Australia's one which > has had a lot of work put into it and been exercised at multiple different > events (including debconf and others outside of just Linux Australia). I > understand less people of MPUG may have seen it, but I personally don't see > that as a reason not to use it. > > There is no obvious license on the pyconau 2015 code of conduct so I'll > leave that to others to reply. Javier, Some explanation as to the current code of conduct; some detailed reasons as to why you shouldn't adopt it; and some reasons if you do decide to adopt it, why you shouldn't link back to PyCon AU's instance of it. A large part of the reason why PyCon AU has continued to use the older CoC is inertia -- many PyCon sponsors (especially the Python Software Foundation themselves) have required a declaration that a conference would adopt a code of conduct before agreeing to sponsor. Pointing back at an old Code of Conduct (which has been used successfully for some years now) has been sufficient for that. Certainly when I was directly involved in the day-to-day running of the conference, I was hesitant to change the code after telling the sponsor what our decision was. This year I've been responding with the historical code and the LA code. I've flagged with Clinton the intention of using the Linux Australia code of conduct, and I believe consideration has been given to this. My view is that MPUG should be adopting a LA's code of conduct, or a variant thereof, rather than the historical PyCon AU one: - It is more detailed than PyCon AU's, but it covers all of the provisions of the old PyCon AU code of conduct. - Likewise, the LA code of conduct, written after PyCon AU's contains many of identical provisions: enforcement rules, and the preamble, were taken almost identically from the PyCon AU 2011 code. - It is not location-specific -- PyCon AU's code specifies things specific to the location of the conference. MPUG would need to fork PyCon AU's code of conduct in order to make it appropriate to their place of meeting. - PyCon AU's code of conduct specifies in detail expected behaviour of presenters[0], but much less so for delegates - LA's code of conduct has been iterated by several organisations other than LA, including Debconf, which has resulted in amending language where the code has proved problematic to enforce [1][2]. As for whether you should be linking to PyCon AU's code directly, I also say no: - If you adopt the 2014 version, you'll be telling your members that you'll alert Queensland police to incidents. - the code will not remain static over the years. The current code requires minor changes every two years. - There is also the chance that we'll change the code completely (i.e. to adopt LA's code of conduct). --Chris [0] A large part of this is, in my opinion, due to when the code was written, and the concerns of the community at the time [1] https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/commit/b8dfbb633bdb7ad1d16dee39f746345b2b85cfd8 [2] https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/commit/043e78288a33615f8dca775ce0857c37e6a7f660 -- --Christopher Neugebauer Jabber: chrisjrn at gmail.com -- IRC: chrisjrn on irc.freenode.net -- WWW: http://chris.neugebauer.id.au -- Twitter: @chrisjrn From javier at candeira.com Thu Apr 9 16:39:55 2015 From: javier at candeira.com (Javier Candeira) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2015 16:39:55 +0200 Subject: [melbourne-pug] [pyconau-orgs] Permanent links to Code of Conduct In-Reply-To: References: <552653F5.4000709@nitrotech.org> <55265D2A.6030506@nitrotech.org> Message-ID: Thanks, Chris. If Pycon AU adopts the LA code of conduct, that would make me (I speak personally) want MPUG to adopt it too. And many of the other reasons for it (MPUG organisers and presenters are also involved with Pycon, so their acceptance of the CoC is a given in many cases) would stand too. Let's say that we'd be adopting the Pycon AU CoC by reference, not by value. Note that it's my opinion that a small user group has different dynamics than a big conference, so the language itself did not bother me much. I think the signaling aspect of having a CoC at all and the commitment of the organisers to take issues seriusly is much more important than the wording of the CoC. Having said that, it's always better to adopt a well-maintained document. For the reasons above I'm going to suggest on the MPUG list that we adopt the LA CoC too, "since it's the one used by Pycon AU". When do you expect/hope the Pycon AU organisation to make the decision to switch? J On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 4:31 PM, Chris Neugebauer wrote: > On 9 April 2015 at 04:06, Joshua Hesketh wrote: > > > > The code of conduct isn't hard coded into the source but rather supplied > as > > part of the content management system built into zookeepr. This year the > URL > > is here: http://2015.pycon-au.org/register/code_of_conduct > > > > > > I'm actually surprised PyCon AU hasn't moved to Linux Australia's one > which > > has had a lot of work put into it and been exercised at multiple > different > > events (including debconf and others outside of just Linux Australia). I > > understand less people of MPUG may have seen it, but I personally don't > see > > that as a reason not to use it. > > > > There is no obvious license on the pyconau 2015 code of conduct so I'll > > leave that to others to reply. > > Javier, > > Some explanation as to the current code of conduct; some detailed > reasons as to why you shouldn't adopt it; and some reasons if you do > decide to adopt it, why you shouldn't link back to PyCon AU's instance > of it. > > A large part of the reason why PyCon AU has continued to use the older > CoC is inertia -- many PyCon sponsors (especially the Python Software > Foundation themselves) have required a declaration that a conference > would adopt a code of conduct before agreeing to sponsor. Pointing > back at an old Code of Conduct (which has been used successfully for > some years now) has been sufficient for that. > > Certainly when I was directly involved in the day-to-day running of > the conference, I was hesitant to change the code after telling the > sponsor what our decision was. > > This year I've been responding with the historical code and the LA > code. I've flagged with Clinton the intention of using the Linux > Australia code of conduct, and I believe consideration has been given > to this. > > My view is that MPUG should be adopting a LA's code of conduct, or a > variant thereof, rather than the historical PyCon AU one: > > - It is more detailed than PyCon AU's, but it covers all of the > provisions of the old PyCon AU code of conduct. > - Likewise, the LA code of conduct, written after PyCon AU's contains > many of identical provisions: enforcement rules, and the preamble, > were taken almost identically from the PyCon AU 2011 code. > - It is not location-specific -- PyCon AU's code specifies things > specific to the location of the conference. MPUG would need to fork > PyCon AU's code of conduct in order to make it appropriate to their > place of meeting. > - PyCon AU's code of conduct specifies in detail expected behaviour of > presenters[0], but much less so for delegates > - LA's code of conduct has been iterated by several organisations > other than LA, including Debconf, which has resulted in amending > language where the code has proved problematic to enforce [1][2]. > > As for whether you should be linking to PyCon AU's code directly, I > also say no: > - If you adopt the 2014 version, you'll be telling your members that > you'll alert Queensland police to incidents. > - the code will not remain static over the years. The current code > requires minor changes every two years. > - There is also the chance that we'll change the code completely (i.e. > to adopt LA's code of conduct). > > --Chris > > [0] A large part of this is, in my opinion, due to when the code was > written, and the concerns of the community at the time > [1] > https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/commit/b8dfbb633bdb7ad1d16dee39f746345b2b85cfd8 > [2] > https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/commit/043e78288a33615f8dca775ce0857c37e6a7f660 > > -- > --Christopher Neugebauer > > Jabber: chrisjrn at gmail.com -- IRC: chrisjrn on irc.freenode.net -- > WWW: http://chris.neugebauer.id.au -- Twitter: @chrisjrn > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From javier at candeira.com Sat Apr 11 14:39:23 2015 From: javier at candeira.com (Javier Candeira) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 14:39:23 +0200 Subject: [melbourne-pug] [pyconau-orgs] Permanent links to Code of Conduct In-Reply-To: References: <552653F5.4000709@nitrotech.org> <55265D2A.6030506@nitrotech.org> Message-ID: Hi MPUG. As you can see by the discussion with Pycon AU and Linux Australia people (quoted below), they think MPUG should move to the Linux Australia Code of Conduct. It will be soon the one used by Pycon AU as well anyway. I've been persuaded, and I will change the links in the wiki and the mailing list website header if no strong dissent is registered on this list in the next 48 hours. Hopefully this will be the end of this matter. If instead of dissent you want to express approval and support, that's cool as well. In fact I'd personally appreciate it. Cheers, Javier On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 4:39 PM, Javier Candeira wrote: > Thanks, Chris. > > If Pycon AU adopts the LA code of conduct, that would make me (I speak > personally) want MPUG to adopt it too. And many of the other reasons for it > (MPUG organisers and presenters are also involved with Pycon, so their > acceptance of the CoC is a given in many cases) would stand too. Let's say > that we'd be adopting the Pycon AU CoC by reference, not by value. > > Note that it's my opinion that a small user group has different dynamics > than a big conference, so the language itself did not bother me much. I > think the signaling aspect of having a CoC at all and the commitment of the > organisers to take issues seriusly is much more important than the wording > of the CoC. Having said that, it's always better to adopt a well-maintained > document. > > For the reasons above I'm going to suggest on the MPUG list that we adopt > the LA CoC too, "since it's the one used by Pycon AU". When do you > expect/hope the Pycon AU organisation to make the decision to switch? > > J > > > > On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 4:31 PM, Chris Neugebauer > wrote: > >> On 9 April 2015 at 04:06, Joshua Hesketh wrote: >> > >> > The code of conduct isn't hard coded into the source but rather >> supplied as >> > part of the content management system built into zookeepr. This year >> the URL >> > is here: http://2015.pycon-au.org/register/code_of_conduct >> > >> > >> > I'm actually surprised PyCon AU hasn't moved to Linux Australia's one >> which >> > has had a lot of work put into it and been exercised at multiple >> different >> > events (including debconf and others outside of just Linux Australia). I >> > understand less people of MPUG may have seen it, but I personally don't >> see >> > that as a reason not to use it. >> > >> > There is no obvious license on the pyconau 2015 code of conduct so I'll >> > leave that to others to reply. >> >> Javier, >> >> Some explanation as to the current code of conduct; some detailed >> reasons as to why you shouldn't adopt it; and some reasons if you do >> decide to adopt it, why you shouldn't link back to PyCon AU's instance >> of it. >> >> A large part of the reason why PyCon AU has continued to use the older >> CoC is inertia -- many PyCon sponsors (especially the Python Software >> Foundation themselves) have required a declaration that a conference >> would adopt a code of conduct before agreeing to sponsor. Pointing >> back at an old Code of Conduct (which has been used successfully for >> some years now) has been sufficient for that. >> >> Certainly when I was directly involved in the day-to-day running of >> the conference, I was hesitant to change the code after telling the >> sponsor what our decision was. >> >> This year I've been responding with the historical code and the LA >> code. I've flagged with Clinton the intention of using the Linux >> Australia code of conduct, and I believe consideration has been given >> to this. >> >> My view is that MPUG should be adopting a LA's code of conduct, or a >> variant thereof, rather than the historical PyCon AU one: >> >> - It is more detailed than PyCon AU's, but it covers all of the >> provisions of the old PyCon AU code of conduct. >> - Likewise, the LA code of conduct, written after PyCon AU's contains >> many of identical provisions: enforcement rules, and the preamble, >> were taken almost identically from the PyCon AU 2011 code. >> - It is not location-specific -- PyCon AU's code specifies things >> specific to the location of the conference. MPUG would need to fork >> PyCon AU's code of conduct in order to make it appropriate to their >> place of meeting. >> - PyCon AU's code of conduct specifies in detail expected behaviour of >> presenters[0], but much less so for delegates >> - LA's code of conduct has been iterated by several organisations >> other than LA, including Debconf, which has resulted in amending >> language where the code has proved problematic to enforce [1][2]. >> >> As for whether you should be linking to PyCon AU's code directly, I >> also say no: >> - If you adopt the 2014 version, you'll be telling your members that >> you'll alert Queensland police to incidents. >> - the code will not remain static over the years. The current code >> requires minor changes every two years. >> - There is also the chance that we'll change the code completely (i.e. >> to adopt LA's code of conduct). >> >> --Chris >> >> [0] A large part of this is, in my opinion, due to when the code was >> written, and the concerns of the community at the time >> [1] >> https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/commit/b8dfbb633bdb7ad1d16dee39f746345b2b85cfd8 >> [2] >> https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/commit/043e78288a33615f8dca775ce0857c37e6a7f660 >> >> -- >> --Christopher Neugebauer >> >> Jabber: chrisjrn at gmail.com -- IRC: chrisjrn on irc.freenode.net -- >> WWW: http://chris.neugebauer.id.au -- Twitter: @chrisjrn >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cjlmac at gmail.com Sun Apr 12 11:11:29 2015 From: cjlmac at gmail.com (Chris Maclachlan) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 09:11:29 +0000 Subject: [melbourne-pug] [pyconau-orgs] Permanent links to Code of Conduct In-Reply-To: References: <552653F5.4000709@nitrotech.org> <55265D2A.6030506@nitrotech.org> Message-ID: Hi all, I've been lurking on the list for about a year, and I've only been to one MPUG meetup so far - but I've read the entire discussion around this with some interest. The community seems to be open, friendly, welcoming, well-behaved and professional, so the discussion of a need for a code of conduct at all initially surprised me - but having given it some thought, I've seen first-hand how one bad seed can ruin things for everyone, and it's frustrating at the best of times when it happens - doubly so when the rules weren't laid down from the start. So, having said all that, as a humble list-lurker, I just wanted to personally voice my approval and support for MPUG adopting the Linux AU CoC. I think it will provide a good underpinning for this group, and encourage professionalism and inclusiveness without imposing any overbearing regulations. (Also, I think it's fantastic that Javier has championed this effort, and I love the transparent and democratic method in which he's gone about it. We're lucky to have people like him as part of this community). Cheers Chris On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 10:39 PM Javier Candeira wrote: > Hi MPUG. > > As you can see by the discussion with Pycon AU and Linux Australia people > (quoted below), they think MPUG should move to the Linux Australia Code of > Conduct. It will be soon the one used by Pycon AU as well anyway. > > I've been persuaded, and I will change the links in the wiki and the > mailing list website header if no strong dissent is registered on this list > in the next 48 hours. Hopefully this will be the end of this matter. > > If instead of dissent you want to express approval and support, that's > cool as well. In fact I'd personally appreciate it. > > Cheers, > Javier > > On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 4:39 PM, Javier Candeira > wrote: > >> Thanks, Chris. >> >> If Pycon AU adopts the LA code of conduct, that would make me (I speak >> personally) want MPUG to adopt it too. And many of the other reasons for it >> (MPUG organisers and presenters are also involved with Pycon, so their >> acceptance of the CoC is a given in many cases) would stand too. Let's say >> that we'd be adopting the Pycon AU CoC by reference, not by value. >> >> Note that it's my opinion that a small user group has different dynamics >> than a big conference, so the language itself did not bother me much. I >> think the signaling aspect of having a CoC at all and the commitment of the >> organisers to take issues seriusly is much more important than the wording >> of the CoC. Having said that, it's always better to adopt a well-maintained >> document. >> >> For the reasons above I'm going to suggest on the MPUG list that we adopt >> the LA CoC too, "since it's the one used by Pycon AU". When do you >> expect/hope the Pycon AU organisation to make the decision to switch? >> >> J >> >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 4:31 PM, Chris Neugebauer >> wrote: >> >>> On 9 April 2015 at 04:06, Joshua Hesketh wrote: >>> > >>> > The code of conduct isn't hard coded into the source but rather >>> supplied as >>> > part of the content management system built into zookeepr. This year >>> the URL >>> > is here: http://2015.pycon-au.org/register/code_of_conduct >>> > >>> > >>> > I'm actually surprised PyCon AU hasn't moved to Linux Australia's one >>> which >>> > has had a lot of work put into it and been exercised at multiple >>> different >>> > events (including debconf and others outside of just Linux Australia). >>> I >>> > understand less people of MPUG may have seen it, but I personally >>> don't see >>> > that as a reason not to use it. >>> > >>> > There is no obvious license on the pyconau 2015 code of conduct so I'll >>> > leave that to others to reply. >>> >>> Javier, >>> >>> Some explanation as to the current code of conduct; some detailed >>> reasons as to why you shouldn't adopt it; and some reasons if you do >>> decide to adopt it, why you shouldn't link back to PyCon AU's instance >>> of it. >>> >>> A large part of the reason why PyCon AU has continued to use the older >>> CoC is inertia -- many PyCon sponsors (especially the Python Software >>> Foundation themselves) have required a declaration that a conference >>> would adopt a code of conduct before agreeing to sponsor. Pointing >>> back at an old Code of Conduct (which has been used successfully for >>> some years now) has been sufficient for that. >>> >>> Certainly when I was directly involved in the day-to-day running of >>> the conference, I was hesitant to change the code after telling the >>> sponsor what our decision was. >>> >>> This year I've been responding with the historical code and the LA >>> code. I've flagged with Clinton the intention of using the Linux >>> Australia code of conduct, and I believe consideration has been given >>> to this. >>> >>> My view is that MPUG should be adopting a LA's code of conduct, or a >>> variant thereof, rather than the historical PyCon AU one: >>> >>> - It is more detailed than PyCon AU's, but it covers all of the >>> provisions of the old PyCon AU code of conduct. >>> - Likewise, the LA code of conduct, written after PyCon AU's contains >>> many of identical provisions: enforcement rules, and the preamble, >>> were taken almost identically from the PyCon AU 2011 code. >>> - It is not location-specific -- PyCon AU's code specifies things >>> specific to the location of the conference. MPUG would need to fork >>> PyCon AU's code of conduct in order to make it appropriate to their >>> place of meeting. >>> - PyCon AU's code of conduct specifies in detail expected behaviour of >>> presenters[0], but much less so for delegates >>> - LA's code of conduct has been iterated by several organisations >>> other than LA, including Debconf, which has resulted in amending >>> language where the code has proved problematic to enforce [1][2]. >>> >>> As for whether you should be linking to PyCon AU's code directly, I >>> also say no: >>> - If you adopt the 2014 version, you'll be telling your members that >>> you'll alert Queensland police to incidents. >>> - the code will not remain static over the years. The current code >>> requires minor changes every two years. >>> - There is also the chance that we'll change the code completely (i.e. >>> to adopt LA's code of conduct). >>> >>> --Chris >>> >>> [0] A large part of this is, in my opinion, due to when the code was >>> written, and the concerns of the community at the time >>> [1] >>> https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/commit/b8dfbb633bdb7ad1d16dee39f746345b2b85cfd8 >>> [2] >>> https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/commit/043e78288a33615f8dca775ce0857c37e6a7f660 >>> >>> -- >>> --Christopher Neugebauer >>> >>> Jabber: chrisjrn at gmail.com -- IRC: chrisjrn on irc.freenode.net -- >>> WWW: http://chris.neugebauer.id.au -- Twitter: @chrisjrn >>> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > melbourne-pug mailing list > melbourne-pug at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From miked at dewhirst.com.au Sun Apr 12 14:14:33 2015 From: miked at dewhirst.com.au (Mike Dewhirst) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 22:14:33 +1000 Subject: [melbourne-pug] [pyconau-orgs] Permanent links to Code of Conduct In-Reply-To: References: <552653F5.4000709@nitrotech.org> <55265D2A.6030506@nitrotech.org> Message-ID: <552A61A9.9090107@dewhirst.com.au> Hear hear! On 12/04/2015 7:11 PM, Chris Maclachlan wrote: > Hi all,? > > I've been lurking on the list for about a year, and I've only been to > one MPUG meetup so far - but I've read the entire discussion around this > with some interest. The community seems to be open, friendly, welcoming, > well-behaved and professional, so the discussion of a need for a code of > conduct at all initially surprised me - but having given it some > thought, I've seen first-hand how one bad seed can ruin things for > everyone, and it's frustrating at the best of times when it happens - > doubly so when the rules weren't laid down from the start.? > > So, having said all that, as a humble list-lurker, I just wanted to > personally voice my approval and support for MPUG adopting the Linux AU > CoC. I think it will provide a good underpinning for this group, and > encourage professionalism and inclusiveness without imposing any > overbearing regulations.? > > (Also, I think it's fantastic that Javier has championed this effort, > and I love the transparent and democratic method in which he's gone > about it. We're lucky to have people like him as part of this community). ? > > Cheers > > Chris > > > ? > > On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 10:39 PM Javier Candeira > wrote: > > Hi MPUG. > > As you can see by the discussion with Pycon AU and Linux Australia > people (quoted below), they think MPUG should move to the Linux > Australia Code of Conduct. It will be soon the one used by Pycon AU > as well anyway. > > I've been persuaded, and I will change the links in the wiki and the > mailing list website header if no strong dissent is registered on > this list in the next 48 hours. Hopefully this will be the end of > this matter. > > If instead of dissent you want to express approval and support, > that's cool as well. In fact I'd personally appreciate it. > > Cheers, > Javier > > On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 4:39 PM, Javier Candeira > wrote: > > Thanks, Chris. > > If Pycon AU adopts the LA code of conduct, that would make me (I > speak personally) want MPUG to adopt it too. And many of the > other reasons for it (MPUG organisers and presenters are also > involved with Pycon, so their acceptance of the CoC is a given > in many cases) would stand too. Let's say that we'd be adopting > the Pycon AU CoC by reference, not by value. > > Note that it's my opinion that a small user group has different > dynamics than a big conference, so the language itself did not > bother me much. I think the signaling aspect of having a CoC at > all and the commitment of the organisers to take issues seriusly > is much more important than the wording of the CoC. Having said > that, it's always better to adopt a well-maintained document. > > For the reasons above I'm going to suggest on the MPUG list that > we adopt the LA CoC too, "since it's the one used by Pycon AU". > When do you expect/hope the Pycon AU organisation to make the > decision to switch? > > J > > > > On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 4:31 PM, Chris Neugebauer > > wrote: > > On 9 April 2015 at 04:06, Joshua Hesketh > wrote: > > > > The code of conduct isn't hard coded into the source but rather supplied as > > part of the content management system built into zookeepr. This year the URL > > is here:http://2015.pycon-au.org/register/code_of_conduct > > > > > > I'm actually surprised PyCon AU hasn't moved to Linux Australia's one which > > has had a lot of work put into it and been exercised at multiple different > > events (including debconf and others outside of just Linux Australia). I > > understand less people of MPUG may have seen it, but I personally don't see > > that as a reason not to use it. > > > > There is no obvious license on the pyconau 2015 code of conduct so I'll > > leave that to others to reply. > > Javier, > > Some explanation as to the current code of conduct; some > detailed > reasons as to why you shouldn't adopt it; and some reasons > if you do > decide to adopt it, why you shouldn't link back to PyCon > AU's instance > of it. > > A large part of the reason why PyCon AU has continued to use > the older > CoC is inertia -- many PyCon sponsors (especially the Python > Software > Foundation themselves) have required a declaration that a > conference > would adopt a code of conduct before agreeing to sponsor. > Pointing > back at an old Code of Conduct (which has been used > successfully for > some years now) has been sufficient for that. > > Certainly when I was directly involved in the day-to-day > running of > the conference, I was hesitant to change the code after > telling the > sponsor what our decision was. > > This year I've been responding with the historical code and > the LA > code. I've flagged with Clinton the intention of using the Linux > Australia code of conduct, and I believe consideration has > been given > to this. > > My view is that MPUG should be adopting a LA's code of > conduct, or a > variant thereof, rather than the historical PyCon AU one: > > - It is more detailed than PyCon AU's, but it covers all of the > provisions of the old PyCon AU code of conduct. > - Likewise, the LA code of conduct, written after PyCon AU's > contains > many of identical provisions: enforcement rules, and the > preamble, > were taken almost identically from the PyCon AU 2011 code. > - It is not location-specific -- PyCon AU's code specifies > things > specific to the location of the conference. MPUG would need > to fork > PyCon AU's code of conduct in order to make it appropriate > to their > place of meeting. > - PyCon AU's code of conduct specifies in detail expected > behaviour of > presenters[0], but much less so for delegates > - LA's code of conduct has been iterated by several > organisations > other than LA, including Debconf, which has resulted in amending > language where the code has proved problematic to enforce > [1][2]. > > As for whether you should be linking to PyCon AU's code > directly, I > also say no: > - If you adopt the 2014 version, you'll be telling your > members that > you'll alert Queensland police to incidents. > - the code will not remain static over the years. The > current code > requires minor changes every two years. > - There is also the chance that we'll change the code > completely (i.e. > to adopt LA's code of conduct). > > --Chris > > [0] A large part of this is, in my opinion, due to when the > code was > written, and the concerns of the community at the time > [1] > https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/commit/b8dfbb633bdb7ad1d16dee39f746345b2b85cfd8 > [2] > https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/commit/043e78288a33615f8dca775ce0857c37e6a7f660 > > -- > --Christopher Neugebauer > > Jabber: chrisjrn at gmail.com -- > IRC: chrisjrn on irc.freenode.net -- > WWW: http://chris.neugebauer.id.au -- Twitter: @chrisjrn > > > > _______________________________________________ > melbourne-pug mailing list > melbourne-pug at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug > > > > _______________________________________________ > melbourne-pug mailing list > melbourne-pug at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug > From simoncropper at fossworkflowguides.com Sun Apr 12 17:18:02 2015 From: simoncropper at fossworkflowguides.com (Simon Cropper) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 01:18:02 +1000 Subject: [melbourne-pug] [pyconau-orgs] Permanent links to Code of Conduct In-Reply-To: <552A61A9.9090107@dewhirst.com.au> References: <552653F5.4000709@nitrotech.org> <55265D2A.6030506@nitrotech.org> <552A61A9.9090107@dewhirst.com.au> Message-ID: <552A8CAA.8030900@fossworkflowguides.com> Having carefully read the Linux Australia Code of Conduct stored here https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/blob/master/code_of_conduct.md I believe that it provides a reasonable starting point for MPUG's code of conduct. It does however serve as a template for their conferences - an activity that equates to the monthly MPUG meetings - but does not address other activities that open source communities are usually involved -- website design, on-line content creation, email lists, fora, etc. Consequently, at some stage, the text will need to be augmented to ensure all activities are covered or generalized to act as a set of principles community members abide. On 12/04/15 22:14, Mike Dewhirst wrote: > Hear hear! > > On 12/04/2015 7:11 PM, Chris Maclachlan wrote: >> Hi all,? >> >> I've been lurking on the list for about a year, and I've only been to >> one MPUG meetup so far - but I've read the entire discussion around this >> with some interest. The community seems to be open, friendly, welcoming, >> well-behaved and professional, so the discussion of a need for a code of >> conduct at all initially surprised me - but having given it some >> thought, I've seen first-hand how one bad seed can ruin things for >> everyone, and it's frustrating at the best of times when it happens - >> doubly so when the rules weren't laid down from the start.? >> >> So, having said all that, as a humble list-lurker, I just wanted to >> personally voice my approval and support for MPUG adopting the Linux AU >> CoC. I think it will provide a good underpinning for this group, and >> encourage professionalism and inclusiveness without imposing any >> overbearing regulations.? >> >> (Also, I think it's fantastic that Javier has championed this effort, >> and I love the transparent and democratic method in which he's gone >> about it. We're lucky to have people like him as part of this >> community). ? >> >> Cheers >> >> Chris >> >> >> ? >> >> On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 10:39 PM Javier Candeira > > wrote: >> >> Hi MPUG. >> >> As you can see by the discussion with Pycon AU and Linux Australia >> people (quoted below), they think MPUG should move to the Linux >> Australia Code of Conduct. It will be soon the one used by Pycon AU >> as well anyway. >> >> I've been persuaded, and I will change the links in the wiki and the >> mailing list website header if no strong dissent is registered on >> this list in the next 48 hours. Hopefully this will be the end of >> this matter. >> >> If instead of dissent you want to express approval and support, >> that's cool as well. In fact I'd personally appreciate it. >> >> Cheers, >> Javier >> >> On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 4:39 PM, Javier Candeira > > wrote: >> >> Thanks, Chris. >> >> If Pycon AU adopts the LA code of conduct, that would make me (I >> speak personally) want MPUG to adopt it too. And many of the >> other reasons for it (MPUG organisers and presenters are also >> involved with Pycon, so their acceptance of the CoC is a given >> in many cases) would stand too. Let's say that we'd be adopting >> the Pycon AU CoC by reference, not by value. >> >> Note that it's my opinion that a small user group has different >> dynamics than a big conference, so the language itself did not >> bother me much. I think the signaling aspect of having a CoC at >> all and the commitment of the organisers to take issues seriusly >> is much more important than the wording of the CoC. Having said >> that, it's always better to adopt a well-maintained document. >> >> For the reasons above I'm going to suggest on the MPUG list that >> we adopt the LA CoC too, "since it's the one used by Pycon AU". >> When do you expect/hope the Pycon AU organisation to make the >> decision to switch? >> >> J >> >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 4:31 PM, Chris Neugebauer >> > wrote: >> >> On 9 April 2015 at 04:06, Joshua Hesketh > > wrote: >> > >> > The code of conduct isn't hard coded into the source but >> rather supplied as >> > part of the content management system built into >> zookeepr. This year the URL >> > is here:http://2015.pycon-au.org/register/code_of_conduct >> > >> > >> > I'm actually surprised PyCon AU hasn't moved to Linux >> Australia's one which >> > has had a lot of work put into it and been exercised at >> multiple different >> > events (including debconf and others outside of just >> Linux Australia). I >> > understand less people of MPUG may have seen it, but I >> personally don't see >> > that as a reason not to use it. >> > >> > There is no obvious license on the pyconau 2015 code of >> conduct so I'll >> > leave that to others to reply. >> >> Javier, >> >> Some explanation as to the current code of conduct; some >> detailed >> reasons as to why you shouldn't adopt it; and some reasons >> if you do >> decide to adopt it, why you shouldn't link back to PyCon >> AU's instance >> of it. >> >> A large part of the reason why PyCon AU has continued to use >> the older >> CoC is inertia -- many PyCon sponsors (especially the Python >> Software >> Foundation themselves) have required a declaration that a >> conference >> would adopt a code of conduct before agreeing to sponsor. >> Pointing >> back at an old Code of Conduct (which has been used >> successfully for >> some years now) has been sufficient for that. >> >> Certainly when I was directly involved in the day-to-day >> running of >> the conference, I was hesitant to change the code after >> telling the >> sponsor what our decision was. >> >> This year I've been responding with the historical code and >> the LA >> code. I've flagged with Clinton the intention of using the >> Linux >> Australia code of conduct, and I believe consideration has >> been given >> to this. >> >> My view is that MPUG should be adopting a LA's code of >> conduct, or a >> variant thereof, rather than the historical PyCon AU one: >> >> - It is more detailed than PyCon AU's, but it covers all >> of the >> provisions of the old PyCon AU code of conduct. >> - Likewise, the LA code of conduct, written after PyCon AU's >> contains >> many of identical provisions: enforcement rules, and the >> preamble, >> were taken almost identically from the PyCon AU 2011 code. >> - It is not location-specific -- PyCon AU's code specifies >> things >> specific to the location of the conference. MPUG would need >> to fork >> PyCon AU's code of conduct in order to make it appropriate >> to their >> place of meeting. >> - PyCon AU's code of conduct specifies in detail expected >> behaviour of >> presenters[0], but much less so for delegates >> - LA's code of conduct has been iterated by several >> organisations >> other than LA, including Debconf, which has resulted in >> amending >> language where the code has proved problematic to enforce >> [1][2]. >> >> As for whether you should be linking to PyCon AU's code >> directly, I >> also say no: >> - If you adopt the 2014 version, you'll be telling your >> members that >> you'll alert Queensland police to incidents. >> - the code will not remain static over the years. The >> current code >> requires minor changes every two years. >> - There is also the chance that we'll change the code >> completely (i.e. >> to adopt LA's code of conduct). >> >> --Chris >> >> [0] A large part of this is, in my opinion, due to when the >> code was >> written, and the concerns of the community at the time >> [1] >> >> https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/commit/b8dfbb633bdb7ad1d16dee39f746345b2b85cfd8 >> >> [2] >> >> https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/commit/043e78288a33615f8dca775ce0857c37e6a7f660 >> >> >> -- >> --Christopher Neugebauer >> >> Jabber: chrisjrn at gmail.com -- >> IRC: chrisjrn on irc.freenode.net >> -- >> WWW: http://chris.neugebauer.id.au -- Twitter: @chrisjrn >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> melbourne-pug mailing list >> melbourne-pug at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> melbourne-pug mailing list >> melbourne-pug at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug >> > > _______________________________________________ > melbourne-pug mailing list > melbourne-pug at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug From javier at candeira.com Sun Apr 12 23:22:39 2015 From: javier at candeira.com (Javier Candeira) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 23:22:39 +0200 Subject: [melbourne-pug] [pyconau-orgs] Permanent links to Code of Conduct In-Reply-To: <552A8CAA.8030900@fossworkflowguides.com> References: <552653F5.4000709@nitrotech.org> <55265D2A.6030506@nitrotech.org> <552A61A9.9090107@dewhirst.com.au> <552A8CAA.8030900@fossworkflowguides.com> Message-ID: Hi, Simon, thanks for the careful reading of the CoC under discussion, and for your response. The way to improve MPUG's shared CoC with LA would be to offer patches to the LA CoC, which MPUG would follow by reference. After all, LA/PyconAU also have mailing lists, so their code also has to deal with online behaviour. Regards, Javier On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 5:18 PM, Simon Cropper < simoncropper at fossworkflowguides.com> wrote: > > Having carefully read the Linux Australia Code of Conduct stored here > > > https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/blob/master/code_of_conduct.md > > I believe that it provides a reasonable starting point for MPUG's code of > conduct. > > It does however serve as a template for their conferences - an activity > that equates to the monthly MPUG meetings - but does not address other > activities that open source communities are usually involved -- website > design, on-line content creation, email lists, fora, etc. > > Consequently, at some stage, the text will need to be augmented to ensure > all activities are covered or generalized to act as a set of principles > community members abide. > > > > > On 12/04/15 22:14, Mike Dewhirst wrote: > >> Hear hear! >> >> On 12/04/2015 7:11 PM, Chris Maclachlan wrote: >> >>> Hi all,? >>> >>> I've been lurking on the list for about a year, and I've only been to >>> one MPUG meetup so far - but I've read the entire discussion around this >>> with some interest. The community seems to be open, friendly, welcoming, >>> well-behaved and professional, so the discussion of a need for a code of >>> conduct at all initially surprised me - but having given it some >>> thought, I've seen first-hand how one bad seed can ruin things for >>> everyone, and it's frustrating at the best of times when it happens - >>> doubly so when the rules weren't laid down from the start.? >>> >>> So, having said all that, as a humble list-lurker, I just wanted to >>> personally voice my approval and support for MPUG adopting the Linux AU >>> CoC. I think it will provide a good underpinning for this group, and >>> encourage professionalism and inclusiveness without imposing any >>> overbearing regulations.? >>> >>> (Also, I think it's fantastic that Javier has championed this effort, >>> and I love the transparent and democratic method in which he's gone >>> about it. We're lucky to have people like him as part of this >>> community). ? >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> >>> ? >>> >>> On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 10:39 PM Javier Candeira >> > wrote: >>> >>> Hi MPUG. >>> >>> As you can see by the discussion with Pycon AU and Linux Australia >>> people (quoted below), they think MPUG should move to the Linux >>> Australia Code of Conduct. It will be soon the one used by Pycon AU >>> as well anyway. >>> >>> I've been persuaded, and I will change the links in the wiki and the >>> mailing list website header if no strong dissent is registered on >>> this list in the next 48 hours. Hopefully this will be the end of >>> this matter. >>> >>> If instead of dissent you want to express approval and support, >>> that's cool as well. In fact I'd personally appreciate it. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Javier >>> >>> On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 4:39 PM, Javier Candeira >> > wrote: >>> >>> Thanks, Chris. >>> >>> If Pycon AU adopts the LA code of conduct, that would make me (I >>> speak personally) want MPUG to adopt it too. And many of the >>> other reasons for it (MPUG organisers and presenters are also >>> involved with Pycon, so their acceptance of the CoC is a given >>> in many cases) would stand too. Let's say that we'd be adopting >>> the Pycon AU CoC by reference, not by value. >>> >>> Note that it's my opinion that a small user group has different >>> dynamics than a big conference, so the language itself did not >>> bother me much. I think the signaling aspect of having a CoC at >>> all and the commitment of the organisers to take issues seriusly >>> is much more important than the wording of the CoC. Having said >>> that, it's always better to adopt a well-maintained document. >>> >>> For the reasons above I'm going to suggest on the MPUG list that >>> we adopt the LA CoC too, "since it's the one used by Pycon AU". >>> When do you expect/hope the Pycon AU organisation to make the >>> decision to switch? >>> >>> J >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 4:31 PM, Chris Neugebauer >>> > wrote: >>> >>> On 9 April 2015 at 04:06, Joshua Hesketh >> > wrote: >>> > >>> > The code of conduct isn't hard coded into the source but >>> rather supplied as >>> > part of the content management system built into >>> zookeepr. This year the URL >>> > is here:http://2015.pycon-au.org/register/code_of_conduct >>> > >>> > >>> > I'm actually surprised PyCon AU hasn't moved to Linux >>> Australia's one which >>> > has had a lot of work put into it and been exercised at >>> multiple different >>> > events (including debconf and others outside of just >>> Linux Australia). I >>> > understand less people of MPUG may have seen it, but I >>> personally don't see >>> > that as a reason not to use it. >>> > >>> > There is no obvious license on the pyconau 2015 code of >>> conduct so I'll >>> > leave that to others to reply. >>> >>> Javier, >>> >>> Some explanation as to the current code of conduct; some >>> detailed >>> reasons as to why you shouldn't adopt it; and some reasons >>> if you do >>> decide to adopt it, why you shouldn't link back to PyCon >>> AU's instance >>> of it. >>> >>> A large part of the reason why PyCon AU has continued to use >>> the older >>> CoC is inertia -- many PyCon sponsors (especially the Python >>> Software >>> Foundation themselves) have required a declaration that a >>> conference >>> would adopt a code of conduct before agreeing to sponsor. >>> Pointing >>> back at an old Code of Conduct (which has been used >>> successfully for >>> some years now) has been sufficient for that. >>> >>> Certainly when I was directly involved in the day-to-day >>> running of >>> the conference, I was hesitant to change the code after >>> telling the >>> sponsor what our decision was. >>> >>> This year I've been responding with the historical code and >>> the LA >>> code. I've flagged with Clinton the intention of using the >>> Linux >>> Australia code of conduct, and I believe consideration has >>> been given >>> to this. >>> >>> My view is that MPUG should be adopting a LA's code of >>> conduct, or a >>> variant thereof, rather than the historical PyCon AU one: >>> >>> - It is more detailed than PyCon AU's, but it covers all >>> of the >>> provisions of the old PyCon AU code of conduct. >>> - Likewise, the LA code of conduct, written after PyCon AU's >>> contains >>> many of identical provisions: enforcement rules, and the >>> preamble, >>> were taken almost identically from the PyCon AU 2011 code. >>> - It is not location-specific -- PyCon AU's code specifies >>> things >>> specific to the location of the conference. MPUG would need >>> to fork >>> PyCon AU's code of conduct in order to make it appropriate >>> to their >>> place of meeting. >>> - PyCon AU's code of conduct specifies in detail expected >>> behaviour of >>> presenters[0], but much less so for delegates >>> - LA's code of conduct has been iterated by several >>> organisations >>> other than LA, including Debconf, which has resulted in >>> amending >>> language where the code has proved problematic to enforce >>> [1][2]. >>> >>> As for whether you should be linking to PyCon AU's code >>> directly, I >>> also say no: >>> - If you adopt the 2014 version, you'll be telling your >>> members that >>> you'll alert Queensland police to incidents. >>> - the code will not remain static over the years. The >>> current code >>> requires minor changes every two years. >>> - There is also the chance that we'll change the code >>> completely (i.e. >>> to adopt LA's code of conduct). >>> >>> --Chris >>> >>> [0] A large part of this is, in my opinion, due to when the >>> code was >>> written, and the concerns of the community at the time >>> [1] >>> >>> >>> https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/commit/b8dfbb633bdb7ad1d16dee39f746345b2b85cfd8 >>> >>> [2] >>> >>> >>> https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/commit/043e78288a33615f8dca775ce0857c37e6a7f660 >>> >>> >>> -- >>> --Christopher Neugebauer >>> >>> Jabber: chrisjrn at gmail.com -- >>> IRC: chrisjrn on irc.freenode.net >>> -- >>> WWW: http://chris.neugebauer.id.au -- Twitter: @chrisjrn >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> melbourne-pug mailing list >>> melbourne-pug at python.org >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> melbourne-pug mailing list >>> melbourne-pug at python.org >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> melbourne-pug mailing list >> melbourne-pug at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug >> > _______________________________________________ > melbourne-pug mailing list > melbourne-pug at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From j.lee.nielsen at gmail.com Wed Apr 15 05:51:53 2015 From: j.lee.nielsen at gmail.com (Jason Nielsen) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 13:51:53 +1000 Subject: [melbourne-pug] [off-topic] Best invoicing/collecting practices for working with US clients In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Javier I did not have anything much to add to this at the time but I am interested if you got any helpful responses. My work sells a bit into the US and apart from issues with Universities wanting to pay by check we have not had any issues yet but its nice to be prepared. Regards Jason Nielsen On 1 April 2015 at 06:14, Javier Candeira wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm about to close a contract with a US client. > > If anyone on the list has prior experience regarding invoicing and > collecting in the US, and doesn't mind sharing it, I will appreciate it. > > Since it's not strictly Python, please use my personal address instead of > answering to the list. Unless more people are interested, of course. > > Thanks, > > Javier Candeira > > _______________________________________________ > melbourne-pug mailing list > melbourne-pug at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug > From daryl at commoncode.com.au Wed Apr 15 12:09:57 2015 From: daryl at commoncode.com.au (Daryl Antony) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 20:09:57 +1000 Subject: [melbourne-pug] melbourne-pug Digest, Vol 106, Issue 11 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Tom at http://percolatestudio.com works regularly between SF and Melb. Hit him up for Q's ? I'm sure he knows such things. ~ Daryl Antony :: Common Code :: m: 0423 972 657 a: 8 Studley St, Abbotsford On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 8:00 PM, wrote: > Send melbourne-pug mailing list submissions to > melbourne-pug at python.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > melbourne-pug-request at python.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > melbourne-pug-owner at python.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of melbourne-pug digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: [off-topic] Best invoicing/collecting practices for > working with US clients (Jason Nielsen) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 13:51:53 +1000 > From: Jason Nielsen > To: javier at candeira.com, Melbourne Python Users Group > > Subject: Re: [melbourne-pug] [off-topic] Best invoicing/collecting > practices for working with US clients > Message-ID: > RSJ8rDNhgQ at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Hi Javier > > I did not have anything much to add to this at the time but I am > interested if you got any helpful responses. My work sells a bit into > the US and apart from issues with Universities wanting to pay by check > we have not had any issues yet but its nice to be prepared. > > Regards > > Jason Nielsen > > On 1 April 2015 at 06:14, Javier Candeira wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > I'm about to close a contract with a US client. > > > > If anyone on the list has prior experience regarding invoicing and > > collecting in the US, and doesn't mind sharing it, I will appreciate it. > > > > Since it's not strictly Python, please use my personal address instead of > > answering to the list. Unless more people are interested, of course. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Javier Candeira > > > > _______________________________________________ > > melbourne-pug mailing list > > melbourne-pug at python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > melbourne-pug mailing list > melbourne-pug at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug > > > ------------------------------ > > End of melbourne-pug Digest, Vol 106, Issue 11 > ********************************************** > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From javier at candeira.com Fri Apr 17 00:10:17 2015 From: javier at candeira.com (Javier Candeira) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 00:10:17 +0200 Subject: [melbourne-pug] [pyconau-orgs] Permanent links to Code of Conduct In-Reply-To: References: <552653F5.4000709@nitrotech.org> <55265D2A.6030506@nitrotech.org> <552A61A9.9090107@dewhirst.com.au> <552A8CAA.8030900@fossworkflowguides.com> Message-ID: Thanks everyone. I have now changed the text in the wiki and the mailing list web interface to point to the Linux Australia Code of Conduct. (Especially to the people who said nice things about me: double thanks.) See you around, Javier On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 11:22 PM, Javier Candeira wrote: > Hi, Simon, thanks for the careful reading of the CoC under discussion, and > for your response. > > The way to improve MPUG's shared CoC with LA would be to offer patches to > the LA CoC, which MPUG would follow by reference. After all, LA/PyconAU > also have mailing lists, so their code also has to deal with online > behaviour. > > Regards, > > Javier > > > > > On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 5:18 PM, Simon Cropper < > simoncropper at fossworkflowguides.com> wrote: > >> >> Having carefully read the Linux Australia Code of Conduct stored here >> >> >> https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/blob/master/code_of_conduct.md >> >> I believe that it provides a reasonable starting point for MPUG's code of >> conduct. >> >> It does however serve as a template for their conferences - an activity >> that equates to the monthly MPUG meetings - but does not address other >> activities that open source communities are usually involved -- website >> design, on-line content creation, email lists, fora, etc. >> >> Consequently, at some stage, the text will need to be augmented to ensure >> all activities are covered or generalized to act as a set of principles >> community members abide. >> >> >> >> >> On 12/04/15 22:14, Mike Dewhirst wrote: >> >>> Hear hear! >>> >>> On 12/04/2015 7:11 PM, Chris Maclachlan wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all,? >>>> >>>> I've been lurking on the list for about a year, and I've only been to >>>> one MPUG meetup so far - but I've read the entire discussion around this >>>> with some interest. The community seems to be open, friendly, welcoming, >>>> well-behaved and professional, so the discussion of a need for a code of >>>> conduct at all initially surprised me - but having given it some >>>> thought, I've seen first-hand how one bad seed can ruin things for >>>> everyone, and it's frustrating at the best of times when it happens - >>>> doubly so when the rules weren't laid down from the start.? >>>> >>>> So, having said all that, as a humble list-lurker, I just wanted to >>>> personally voice my approval and support for MPUG adopting the Linux AU >>>> CoC. I think it will provide a good underpinning for this group, and >>>> encourage professionalism and inclusiveness without imposing any >>>> overbearing regulations.? >>>> >>>> (Also, I think it's fantastic that Javier has championed this effort, >>>> and I love the transparent and democratic method in which he's gone >>>> about it. We're lucky to have people like him as part of this >>>> community). ? >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> >>>> ? >>>> >>>> On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 10:39 PM Javier Candeira >>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi MPUG. >>>> >>>> As you can see by the discussion with Pycon AU and Linux Australia >>>> people (quoted below), they think MPUG should move to the Linux >>>> Australia Code of Conduct. It will be soon the one used by Pycon AU >>>> as well anyway. >>>> >>>> I've been persuaded, and I will change the links in the wiki and the >>>> mailing list website header if no strong dissent is registered on >>>> this list in the next 48 hours. Hopefully this will be the end of >>>> this matter. >>>> >>>> If instead of dissent you want to express approval and support, >>>> that's cool as well. In fact I'd personally appreciate it. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Javier >>>> >>>> On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 4:39 PM, Javier Candeira < >>>> javier at candeira.com >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> Thanks, Chris. >>>> >>>> If Pycon AU adopts the LA code of conduct, that would make me (I >>>> speak personally) want MPUG to adopt it too. And many of the >>>> other reasons for it (MPUG organisers and presenters are also >>>> involved with Pycon, so their acceptance of the CoC is a given >>>> in many cases) would stand too. Let's say that we'd be adopting >>>> the Pycon AU CoC by reference, not by value. >>>> >>>> Note that it's my opinion that a small user group has different >>>> dynamics than a big conference, so the language itself did not >>>> bother me much. I think the signaling aspect of having a CoC at >>>> all and the commitment of the organisers to take issues seriusly >>>> is much more important than the wording of the CoC. Having said >>>> that, it's always better to adopt a well-maintained document. >>>> >>>> For the reasons above I'm going to suggest on the MPUG list that >>>> we adopt the LA CoC too, "since it's the one used by Pycon AU". >>>> When do you expect/hope the Pycon AU organisation to make the >>>> decision to switch? >>>> >>>> J >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 4:31 PM, Chris Neugebauer >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> On 9 April 2015 at 04:06, Joshua Hesketh < >>>> josh at nitrotech.org >>>> > wrote: >>>> > >>>> > The code of conduct isn't hard coded into the source but >>>> rather supplied as >>>> > part of the content management system built into >>>> zookeepr. This year the URL >>>> > is here:http://2015.pycon-au.org/register/code_of_conduct >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > I'm actually surprised PyCon AU hasn't moved to Linux >>>> Australia's one which >>>> > has had a lot of work put into it and been exercised at >>>> multiple different >>>> > events (including debconf and others outside of just >>>> Linux Australia). I >>>> > understand less people of MPUG may have seen it, but I >>>> personally don't see >>>> > that as a reason not to use it. >>>> > >>>> > There is no obvious license on the pyconau 2015 code of >>>> conduct so I'll >>>> > leave that to others to reply. >>>> >>>> Javier, >>>> >>>> Some explanation as to the current code of conduct; some >>>> detailed >>>> reasons as to why you shouldn't adopt it; and some reasons >>>> if you do >>>> decide to adopt it, why you shouldn't link back to PyCon >>>> AU's instance >>>> of it. >>>> >>>> A large part of the reason why PyCon AU has continued to use >>>> the older >>>> CoC is inertia -- many PyCon sponsors (especially the Python >>>> Software >>>> Foundation themselves) have required a declaration that a >>>> conference >>>> would adopt a code of conduct before agreeing to sponsor. >>>> Pointing >>>> back at an old Code of Conduct (which has been used >>>> successfully for >>>> some years now) has been sufficient for that. >>>> >>>> Certainly when I was directly involved in the day-to-day >>>> running of >>>> the conference, I was hesitant to change the code after >>>> telling the >>>> sponsor what our decision was. >>>> >>>> This year I've been responding with the historical code and >>>> the LA >>>> code. I've flagged with Clinton the intention of using the >>>> Linux >>>> Australia code of conduct, and I believe consideration has >>>> been given >>>> to this. >>>> >>>> My view is that MPUG should be adopting a LA's code of >>>> conduct, or a >>>> variant thereof, rather than the historical PyCon AU one: >>>> >>>> - It is more detailed than PyCon AU's, but it covers all >>>> of the >>>> provisions of the old PyCon AU code of conduct. >>>> - Likewise, the LA code of conduct, written after PyCon AU's >>>> contains >>>> many of identical provisions: enforcement rules, and the >>>> preamble, >>>> were taken almost identically from the PyCon AU 2011 code. >>>> - It is not location-specific -- PyCon AU's code specifies >>>> things >>>> specific to the location of the conference. MPUG would need >>>> to fork >>>> PyCon AU's code of conduct in order to make it appropriate >>>> to their >>>> place of meeting. >>>> - PyCon AU's code of conduct specifies in detail expected >>>> behaviour of >>>> presenters[0], but much less so for delegates >>>> - LA's code of conduct has been iterated by several >>>> organisations >>>> other than LA, including Debconf, which has resulted in >>>> amending >>>> language where the code has proved problematic to enforce >>>> [1][2]. >>>> >>>> As for whether you should be linking to PyCon AU's code >>>> directly, I >>>> also say no: >>>> - If you adopt the 2014 version, you'll be telling your >>>> members that >>>> you'll alert Queensland police to incidents. >>>> - the code will not remain static over the years. The >>>> current code >>>> requires minor changes every two years. >>>> - There is also the chance that we'll change the code >>>> completely (i.e. >>>> to adopt LA's code of conduct). >>>> >>>> --Chris >>>> >>>> [0] A large part of this is, in my opinion, due to when the >>>> code was >>>> written, and the concerns of the community at the time >>>> [1] >>>> >>>> >>>> https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/commit/b8dfbb633bdb7ad1d16dee39f746345b2b85cfd8 >>>> >>>> [2] >>>> >>>> >>>> https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/commit/043e78288a33615f8dca775ce0857c37e6a7f660 >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> --Christopher Neugebauer >>>> >>>> Jabber: chrisjrn at gmail.com -- >>>> IRC: chrisjrn on irc.freenode.net >>>> -- >>>> WWW: http://chris.neugebauer.id.au -- Twitter: @chrisjrn >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> melbourne-pug mailing list >>>> melbourne-pug at python.org >>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> melbourne-pug mailing list >>>> melbourne-pug at python.org >>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> melbourne-pug mailing list >>> melbourne-pug at python.org >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> melbourne-pug mailing list >> melbourne-pug at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anthony.caneva at gmail.com Mon Apr 20 12:43:16 2015 From: anthony.caneva at gmail.com (Anthony Caneva) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 20:43:16 +1000 Subject: [melbourne-pug] Fintech job opportunity Message-ID: Hi there! My name is Anthony and I'm a manager in the financial advice division of BT/Westpac. In particular I'm responsible for the deployment and support of our technology solution. I'm looking for an individual with a very good working knowledge of python coding to join our fintech business unity. Industry specific mentoring included as part of this opportunity to join an energetic and growing team in Melbourne. Happy to discuss flexible arrangements including contract and part-time work, as well as full-time opportunities for an appropriate candidate. Please contact me via direct reply email if you are interested in discussing this opportunity in greater detail. With thanks Anthony Caneva -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryan at rfk.id.au Mon Apr 27 12:34:38 2015 From: ryan at rfk.id.au (Ryan Kelly) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 20:34:38 +1000 Subject: [melbourne-pug] Talk at Melbourne PUG Monday May 4th In-Reply-To: <13589494-F955-4207-B7E4-C63472E1BC05@supercoders.com.au> References: <13589494-F955-4207-B7E4-C63472E1BC05@supercoders.com.au> Message-ID: <553E10BE.9000304@rfk.id.au> Andrew Stuart wrote: >> If anyone is interested I?d be happy to do a talk at Melbourne PUG Monday May 4th. >> I have been doing a fair bit of work on Mailman 3 which will be released at Pycon Montreal in April. >> I can give an overview of Mailman 3 and some of its interesting features. >> Let me know if you are interested. Andrew, it doesn't look like anyone got back to on this, but if you're still interested in presenting on May 4th then I for one would certainly be interested in listening. Did the Mailman 3 release end up going out at PyCon as planned? Cheers, Ryan From andrew.stuart at supercoders.com.au Wed Apr 29 01:59:22 2015 From: andrew.stuart at supercoders.com.au (Andrew Stuart) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 09:59:22 +1000 Subject: [melbourne-pug] Talk at Melbourne PUG Monday May 4th In-Reply-To: <553E10BE.9000304@rfk.id.au> References: <13589494-F955-4207-B7E4-C63472E1BC05@supercoders.com.au> <553E10BE.9000304@rfk.id.au> Message-ID: <31DFD993-9463-4B63-BE3D-63CE5FB39B9A@supercoders.com.au> Hi Ryan Sorry I have something else on that night now. Perhaps for a future meeting. Andrew On 27 Apr 2015, at 8:34 pm, Ryan Kelly wrote: Andrew Stuart wrote: >> If anyone is interested I?d be happy to do a talk at Melbourne PUG Monday May 4th. >> I have been doing a fair bit of work on Mailman 3 which will be released at Pycon Montreal in April. >> I can give an overview of Mailman 3 and some of its interesting features. >> Let me know if you are interested. Andrew, it doesn't look like anyone got back to on this, but if you're still interested in presenting on May 4th then I for one would certainly be interested in listening. Did the Mailman 3 release end up going out at PyCon as planned? Cheers, Ryan