[Matplotlib-devel] What minimum version of python3?

Thomas Caswell tcaswell at gmail.com
Sat Mar 3 13:40:23 EST 2018 

We discussed the minimum python again on the call this past week and
settled on:

 - support minor versions of python initially released in the previous 3
years
 - support minor versions of python initially released in the previous 3
years or oldest that supports the minimum python version (which ever is
higher)

We will bump the minimum python an numpy versions as we can every minor and
major release.

We did not discuss other dependencies, but I propose:
 - for system/c-dependencies (libpng, freetype, GUI frameworks, latex, gs,
ffmpeg) support as old as practical
 - for python dependencies with compiled extensions 3 years or the oldest
that support our minimum python + numpy
 - for python dependencies without complied extensions at least 2 years or
the oldest that supports our minimum python.

Bump these minimum versions as they no longer support our minimum python or
we want to use new features in them.

We should never bump minimum versions on a patch release.

For mpl 3.0 (July 2018) this means python 3.5 (released Sept 2015) and
numpy 1.10 (release in Oct 2015).  Python 3.4 was released Mar 2014 and
Numpy 1.9 was released Sept 2014

For mpl 3.1 (January 2019) this means python 3.6 (released Dec 2016) and
numpy 1.11 (March 2016).

Tom

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 11:38 PM Thomas Caswell <tcaswell at gmail.com> wrote:

> We are talking about a release scheduled for July/August 2018 when 3.7
> will already be out and 3.6 will have been out for ~20 months so support
> coverage will only get better.
>
> From the point of view of distributions, I am mostly worried about running
> into an issue with a distribution that will not be able to package
> Matplotlib.  Are there any distributions that _will_ want to package mpl
> 3.0 in August and will _not_ have 3.6 available in August?
>
> If people are using system python / Matplotlib on older versions of OSs,
> then they are using the old version that is packaged and are OK.  If they
> want to build user-space envs there are a bunch of options (pyenv, conda,
> activestate) which all current support python 3.6 as well as PPAs / IUS /
> .. for system level 3.6.
>
> I think it is incumbent on those advocating we support 3.5 to produce any
> sort of estimate of the harm for dropping 3.5.
>
> I am advocating a policy of 'last 2 python feature releases' (which is
> what I remember from when I first started working on Matplotlib), what is
> the alternative proposal?
>
> As I have said before, I think the community's expectations have been
> warped by having to support and provide new features for an almost decade
> old version of python.
>
> As a final fallback, the 2.2 series will continue to support 3.4 and 3.5
> until 2020.
>
> Tom
>
> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 9:00 PM Chris Barker - NOAA Federal <
> chris.barker at noaa.gov> wrote:
>
>> How many people are using the district-supplied python these days?
>>
>> Do they need the latest MPL?
>>
>> I have literally no idea.
>>
>> -CHB
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On Feb 12, 2018, at 3:54 PM, "vincent.adrien at gmail.com" <
>> vincent.adrien at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Well, I do not know how accurate is the following script:
>> > https://github.com/Mariatta/python_versions_and_distros
>> > but looking at the list it returned on 2017-10-15, it looks like Python
>> 3.6+ may be quite common **outside of the usual left-behind distributions
>> ala Debian stable or CentOS**.
>> >
>> > Adrien,
>> > conda lover since he had to work with CentOS ^^...
>> >
>> >> On 02/12/2018 03:48 PM, Nathan Goldbaum wrote:
>> >> Ubuntu 14.04 (which admittedly goes EOL in April) is still on python
>> 3.4, for example.
>> >> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 5:28 PM Matthew Brett <matthew.brett at gmail.com
>> <mailto:matthew.brett at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >>    On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 10:40 PM, Thomas Caswell <
>> tcaswell at gmail.com
>> >>    <mailto:tcaswell at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >>     > These are derived from today's call:
>> >>     >
>> >>     > Pro 3.6:
>> >>     >  - by the time we release, 3.7 will be out so will support "two
>> >>    most recent
>> >>     > python"
>> >>     >     - this gives 3 years of support on master of each python
>> version
>> >>     > (assuming python sticks
>> >>     >  - ordered, faster dictionaries (as implementation detail in 3.6,
>> >>    guaranteed
>> >>     > in 3.7)
>> >>     >  - guaranteed ordered kwargs / class definitions (do precedence
>> of
>> >>     > conflicting kwaargs)
>> >>     >  - fstrings
>> >>     >  - fspath / pathlib protocol
>> >>     >
>> >>     > Con 3.6:
>> >>     >  - feels a bit agressive as 3.7 is not out yet
>> >>     >  - might get ahead of some LTS releases
>> >>     >    - but older version of Matplotlib will still work
>> >>     >    - user-space environments go along way to fixing this
>> >>     >      - conda
>> >>     >      -
>> >>     >
>> >>
>> https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-install-python-3-and-set-up-a-local-programming-environment-on-centos-7
>> >>     >    - ubuntu 18.04 is planned to be py3.6 by default
>> >>     >
>> >>     > Pro 3.5:
>> >>     >  - more conservative approach
>> >>     >  - pypy3 support (but they will support 3.6 eventually)
>> >>     >
>> >>     > The consensus on the call and on gitter seems to be for 3.6 as
>> >>    the minimum.
>> >>    Man - that seems pretty extreme.   Are the 3.6 features really worth
>> >>    it?  There must be a lot of Linuces at Python 3.5, even at the most
>> >>    recent distribution.  Was there by any chance a majority of conda
>> >>    users on the call?
>> >>    Cheers,
>> >>    Matthew
>> >>    _______________________________________________
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