[IronPython] Question aboutVisual Studio& IronPython Toolsand Debugging

Dino Viehland dinov at microsoft.com
Fri Sep 3 19:05:22 CEST 2010 

Marty wrote:
> A couple more questions:
> 
> * What is the minimum version of IPy required for the running
> ScriptEngine that I want to debug (can I use 2.0?)

Debugging will work all the way back to 1.0.  The way you enable debugging
might change but it should be consistent back to 2.0.

> * Do I need IPy Tools installed in Visual Studio to debug? (I would
> assume so, but thought I would ask)

Nope, you just won't get syntax color highlighting in the editor when
you're stepping.  We've basically done no debugging work in IpyTools so
far so what you get is the raw VS experience.

> * Is there a need to have a version correlation between the IPy Tools
> and the debugged ScriptEngine?

Nope, again because we're just using .NET debugging here it'll all work
fine no matter how you mix and match.

> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: users-bounces at lists.ironpython.com
> [mailto:users-bounces at lists.ironpython.com] On Behalf Of Dino Viehland
> Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 10:51 AM
> To: Discussion of IronPython
> Subject: Re: [IronPython] Question aboutVisual Studio& IronPython
> Toolsand Debugging
> 
> Currently the watch window works like a normal C# watch window.  We have
> 
> various debugger views to help make it more palatable so you can see
> Python
> attributes but dotting through some objects might require a cast to
> dynamic
> to really see certain values.  But for normal .NET objects it'll work
> great.
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: users-bounces at lists.ironpython.com [mailto:users-
> > bounces at lists.ironpython.com] On Behalf Of Marty Nelson
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 10:25 AM
> > To: Discussion of IronPython
> > Subject: Re: [IronPython] Question about Visual Studio& IronPython
> Toolsand
> > Debugging
> >
> >
> > Thanks.  There are really two issues I need to solve:
> >
> > 1.  How to provide a good "dev" experience so script authors can use
> our
> > app in a mode that allows for iterative development.
> > 2.  Manage the "final" version of scripts so they can be stored in
> > production system and used when needed.
> >
> > So it may be sufficient for #1 to pass some project directory as
> command
> > argument to application (or some other means) and read in the scripts
> > differently during the "dev" mode.  Then offer separate feature to
> > commit those scripts to our db.
> >
> > Overall, this looks very promising.  One more question, when attaching
> > and debugging, if the scripts use .NET objects (those from the
> > application environment that get passed into the scripts as variables
> or
> > created from our application types), does the Watch window work as it
> > normally does in Visual Studio for those objects?
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: users-bounces at lists.ironpython.com
> > [mailto:users-bounces at lists.ironpython.com] On Behalf Of Dino Viehland
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 10:01 AM
> > To: Discussion of IronPython
> > Subject: Re: [IronPython] Question about Visual Studio& IronPython
> > Toolsand Debugging
> >
> > If you'd like to store the scripts in a database and allow the user to
> > have
> > scripts reference each other the one thing that you'll probably want
> to
> > do
> > next is implement a PlatformAdaptationLayer to virtualize the file
> > system.
> > You can look at the Silverlight host to see how that's done but it
> > basically
> > it involes subclassing both PlatformAdaptationLayer and ScriptHost (to
> > provide your PAL subclass).
> >
> > The having VS save to the database part might be trickier.  It seems
> > like you'd
> > at least need a plugin to VS to know when the files are getting saved
> > and that's
> > not something I know how to do off the top of my head.  One extreme
> > solution
> > might be to plug into VS's source control mechanisms but I'm guessing
> > that's
> > not easy.  If you're starting VS on the behalf of the user it might be
> > easy
> > enough to have another program which has a FileSystemWatcher watching
> > the
> > project and propagating changes.
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: users-bounces at lists.ironpython.com [mailto:users-
> > > bounces at lists.ironpython.com] On Behalf Of Marty Nelson
> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 9:53 AM
> > > To: Discussion of IronPython
> > > Subject: Re: [IronPython] Question about Visual Studio & IronPython
> > Toolsand
> > > Debugging
> > >
> > >
> > > That will work fine.  I can create a config parameter in our
> > application
> > > (or maybe tie into log4net IsDebugEnabled) and we can change how we
> > > invoke ScriptEngine.
> > >
> > > Next piece of the puzzle is about to manage scripts themselves.  We
> > > currently have rich text editors within the application that
> directly
> > > store code as string.  I'm thinking we need to move to more of a
> > script
> > > library approach where application references scripts that have been
> > > stored to a database.  This would mean user experience is to use IPy
> > VS
> > > and we would need some VS add-in to save those files to our db
> behind
> > > the scene.
> > >
> > > Any thoughts or experiences appreciated.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: users-bounces at lists.ironpython.com
> > > [mailto:users-bounces at lists.ironpython.com] On Behalf Of Dino
> Viehland
> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 9:49 AM
> > > To: Discussion of IronPython
> > > Subject: Re: [IronPython] Question about Visual Studio & IronPython
> > > Toolsand Debugging
> > >
> > > Yep you'll need to write it out to a file and then create the
> > > ScriptSource
> > > object using the file instead of the in-memory stream.  The filename
> > > will
> > > then be carried along w/ the ScriptSource and when the debugging
> > > information
> > > is emitted it will be emitted w/ that filename so the debugger can
> > pick
> > > it
> > > up.
> > >
> > > Also you won't want to always leave debugging mode on - it's much
> > slower
> > > to
> > > compile the code in debugging mode than it is in normal mode.  I'd
> > like
> > > to
> > > eventually start supporting sys.settrace style debugging which won't
> > > have
> > > this penalty but that won't happen anytime soon.
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: users-bounces at lists.ironpython.com [mailto:users-
> > > > bounces at lists.ironpython.com] On Behalf Of Marty Nelson
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 9:44 AM
> > > > To: Discussion of IronPython
> > > > Subject: Re: [IronPython] Question about Visual Studio & Iron
> Python
> > > Toolsand
> > > > Debugging
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Setting DebugMode seems easy enough.
> > > >
> > > > The script code is loaded from an in-memory string.  Would we need
> > to
> > > > write it out to temp file first for debug case?  How does debugger
> > > > "know" what source is?
> > > >
> > > > Thx
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: users-bounces at lists.ironpython.com
> > > > [mailto:users-bounces at lists.ironpython.com] On Behalf Of Dino
> > Viehland
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 9:29 AM
> > > > To: Discussion of IronPython
> > > > Subject: Re: [IronPython] Question about Visual Studio & Iron
> Python
> > > > Toolsand Debugging
> > > >
> > > > The scripts need to be started in debug mode and be stored in
> files
> > > > somewhere on disk (so Visual Studio can load the source code).  To
> > > > enable
> > > > debug mode you can set the DebugMode property on the
> > > ScriptRuntimeSetup
> > > > object.
> > > >
> > > > So this ends up looking like:
> > > >
> > > > var setup = Python.CreateRuntimeSetup();
> > > > setup.DebugMode = true;
> > > > var runtime = new ScriptRuntime(setup);
> > > >
> > > > Alternately can also pass in "Debug" = true to the
> > IDictionary<string,
> > > > object> when
> > > > creating a Python engine:
> > > >
> > > > var dict = new Dictionary<string, object>();
> > > > dict["Debug"] = true;
> > > > Python.CreateEngine(dict);
> > > >
> > > > When you attach all of the Python code should be debuggable.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: users-bounces at lists.ironpython.com [mailto:users-
> > > > > bounces at lists.ironpython.com] On Behalf Of Marty Nelson
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:42 AM
> > > > > To: Discussion of IronPython
> > > > > Subject: [IronPython] Question about Visual Studio & Iron Python
> > > Tools
> > > > and
> > > > > Debugging
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > How does debugging work when attaching to a process with IPy
> Tools
> > > in
> > > > > Visual Studio?
> > > > >
> > > > > Can I attach to an .NET application that has extension points
> that
> > > go
> > > > > into ScriptEngine and "debug" the Python scripts?
> > > > >
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