[IronPython] Roadmap and updates

[Harry Pierson]

This was my original response to Max:

With regard to WinForms, my recent roadmap post was specifically talking to the integration of IPy into the WinForms designer, not into WinForms itself. You can write IPy 2.0 apps right now that use WinForms, you just have to do it by hand as of right now.

The technology that we're "cutting adrift" (to use your term) is the CodeDom parser that's used by the WinForms designer in the VSX sample. The CodeDom model assumes static typing, which obviously doesn't mesh well with IronPython. We end up doing some tricks to embed type information into the generated python code so we can recreate the types when we round trip between code and designer views. My understanding (Dino?) is that we built that code only for WinForms integration support, we're the only MS language that has a CodeDom parser, and the code is not something we're interested in maintaining in the long term.

However, while we have cut the CodeDom parser code, there are other ways of integrating into the WinForms designer. Neither VB nor C# use the CodeDom parser method today, even though obviously both are statically typed. I don't know what the other integration options are personally, but we will be investigating them so that when we ship our production quality VS integration for IPy, we will have WinForms designer support. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear in my blog post. As soon as we have a better idea on our WinForms integration strategy, we'll make sure to talk about it.

As for MS cutting the WinForms model loose, I think we're encouraging folks to move to WPF, but given the sheer amount of WinForms code out there I have a hard time imagining them cutting support for it.

Harry

-----Original Message-----
From: users-bounces at lists.ironpython.com [mailto:users-bounces at lists.ironpython.com] On Behalf Of Max R. Yaffe
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 7:06 PM
To: users at lists.ironpython.com
Subject: [IronPython] Roadmap and updates

Note:  I originally wrote this to Harry Pierson directly who asked that I
post it publically. I hope it doesn't come off as too inflamatory.

Harry - Thanks for the roadmap and the latest update.  It clarifies a
particular issue that I'm having with deciding whether to adopt Iron Python
and .Net for that matter.  My particular application is a scientific
instrument control and data analysis package.  It runs on Windows now using
various older MS technologies (dating back to Windows 2.3!).  It will not
need to run from a web browser, mainly because of the requirements for
instrument control.  The application is highly scripted using a dynamic
language of my own devising derived from Smalltalk and remarkably similar to
Python.

I had been looking at Qt 4.x+PyQt+Python 2.5 as an approach to updating my
technology.  However, I wanted to see what Microsoft had to offer.  WinForms
+ Python seems to be the best fit for my technology because of the need to
manipulate data tables and my desire to avoid the web.  Silverlight just
doesn't offer me any advantage and seems to be directed at pretty pictures
and sounds.  It also doesn't seem to handle the kinds of user/data
interaction I need.  XAML also doesn't seem to offer any advantage for my
code, or if it does, it certainly isn't clear what it might be other than a
YAOUHD (yet another obese, unreadable HTML derivative).  Your roadmap,
however, seems to deprecate WinForms.  I'm worried that IronPython and
Microsoft are going to cut WinForms adrift just when I'm about to make a
major investment in it.  This might be the best approach for Microsoft
because it seems the "community" is mainly interested in pictures, sounds,
and the web. But I need something more classical.

I'd appreciate your comments and direction.

Max Yaffe
Gamry Instruments, Inc.

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