From thinrhino at gmail.com Tue Nov 1 05:19:14 2016 From: thinrhino at gmail.com (Thin Rhino) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2016 14:49:14 +0530 Subject: [Inpycon] Announcing PyCon Pune 2017 & Call for Volunteers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Would like to register a protest with the python community in general that, this "PyconPune" is being organised by a few select individuals without ever discussing it on the local community ML. I see this as a clear effort of these select individuals to fragment the community. Request the community to boycott this conference. Regards Aditya Laghate -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thinrhino at gmail.com Tue Nov 1 06:32:02 2016 From: thinrhino at gmail.com (Thin Rhino) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2016 16:02:02 +0530 Subject: [Inpycon] Announcing PyCon Pune 2017 & Call for Volunteers In-Reply-To: <723e18372ab4ea609bdf1273ce171d3d@hcoop.net> References:

<723e18372ab4ea609bdf1273ce171d3d@hcoop.net> Message-ID: Folks, I don't give a damn about the name. I don't care what it is called. My point is simply about the way this conference is being organised. No discussion or asking for suggestions from the local community mailing list. Should not local community participation be encouraged? On 01-Nov-2016 3:56 PM, "Noufal Ibrahim" wrote: > This whole thing is becoming very unhealthy. > > It would be a lot better if Kushal and the others involved with this > upcoming conference came out here on the list to discuss this. I'm not > personally a fan of boycotts and I really want to see more Python > conferences in India. It'd be a pity to fracture communities and stuff just > over the choice of a name. > > On , Thin Rhino wrote: > >> Would like to register a protest with the python community in general >> that, this "PyconPune" is being organised by a few select individuals >> without ever discussing it on the local community ML. >> >> I see this as a clear effort of these select individuals to fragment >> the community. Request the community to boycott this conference. >> >> Regards >> Aditya Laghate >> _______________________________________________ >> Inpycon mailing list >> Inpycon at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/inpycon >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Tue Nov 1 06:26:20 2016 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2016 15:56:20 +0530 Subject: [Inpycon] Announcing PyCon Pune 2017 & Call for Volunteers In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: <723e18372ab4ea609bdf1273ce171d3d@hcoop.net> This whole thing is becoming very unhealthy. It would be a lot better if Kushal and the others involved with this upcoming conference came out here on the list to discuss this. I'm not personally a fan of boycotts and I really want to see more Python conferences in India. It'd be a pity to fracture communities and stuff just over the choice of a name. On , Thin Rhino wrote: > Would like to register a protest with the python community in general > that, this "PyconPune" is being organised by a few select individuals > without ever discussing it on the local community ML. > > I see this as a clear effort of these select individuals to fragment > the community. Request the community to boycott this conference. > > Regards > Aditya Laghate > _______________________________________________ > Inpycon mailing list > Inpycon at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/inpycon From thinrhino at gmail.com Tue Nov 1 11:16:24 2016 From: thinrhino at gmail.com (Thin Rhino) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2016 20:46:24 +0530 Subject: [Inpycon] [pythonpune] A conversation on Twitter about Python Pune Group In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The current issue at hand is the 4 day conference announced by Chandan. It is a great initiative, all support possible will be extended. I don't give a damn about the name of the conference (ref: discussion on inpycon list). But before any support can be extended to this event, I wonder why nobody from the "organising committee" thought of putting up their intentions on the mailing list? Who all are involved in the organisation of the conference? What is their motivation to setup a 4 day conference at such a short notice? Are they seeking for sponsors? and such questions. As a community, I believe that such information should be first given, asked for input from the community and then should be declared. Am I asking for too much? Regards Aditya Laghate On 1 November 2016 at 20:35, Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay < sankarshan.mukhopadhyay at gmail.com> wrote: > For those who are amused by the subject line, here's context in the thread > > > > It would be good to scroll down where there is a note from Jaidev > about specific items which can be acted upon viz. having a > calendar/schedule of events; better management of speaker calls and > such. > > -- > sankarshan mukhopadhyay > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Python Pune" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to pythonpune+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- "Ship is safe at harbor but it is not made for that." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vikasmishra95 at gmail.com Tue Nov 1 13:56:37 2016 From: vikasmishra95 at gmail.com (Vikas Mishra) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2016 23:26:37 +0530 Subject: [Inpycon] [pythonpune] A conversation on Twitter about Python Pune Group In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: Hi all, I subscribed to the mailing list last year and although never really contributed much (except for reporting a typing issue on the PyCon India '16 website), I read the mails regularly just to keep in touch with the latest updates on the community and hence have read about the naming issue. I too agree regardless of the name of the conference, the community deserves to know about the details Aditya is referring to. Thanks and regards, Vikas Mishra On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 8:46 PM, Thin Rhino wrote: > The current issue at hand is the 4 day conference announced by Chandan. It > is a great initiative, all support possible will be extended. I don't give > a damn about the name of the conference (ref: discussion on inpycon list). > > But before any support can be extended to this event, I wonder why nobody > from the "organising committee" thought of putting up their intentions on > the mailing list? Who all are involved in the organisation of the > conference? What is their motivation to setup a 4 day conference at such a > short notice? Are they seeking for sponsors? and such questions. > > As a community, I believe that such information should be first given, > asked for input from the community and then should be declared. > > Am I asking for too much? > > Regards > Aditya Laghate > > > On 1 November 2016 at 20:35, Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay < > sankarshan.mukhopadhyay at gmail.com> wrote: > >> For those who are amused by the subject line, here's context in the thread >> >> >> >> It would be good to scroll down where there is a note from Jaidev >> about specific items which can be acted upon viz. having a >> calendar/schedule of events; better management of speaker calls and >> such. >> >> -- >> sankarshan mukhopadhyay >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Python Pune" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to pythonpune+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > > -- > "Ship is safe at harbor but it is not made for that." > > _______________________________________________ > Inpycon mailing list > Inpycon at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/inpycon > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shakthimaan at gmail.com Wed Nov 2 05:22:12 2016 From: shakthimaan at gmail.com (Shakthi Kannan) Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2016 14:52:12 +0530 Subject: [Inpycon] Announcing PyCon Pune 2017 & Call for Volunteers In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: Hi, --- On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 2:49 PM, Thin Rhino wrote: | Would like to register a protest with the python community in general \-- Wouldn't it be better to be known for contributing to Python, and organizing related events? * The consent sent on October 17, 2016 is the legitimate approach and we shall adhere to it. "... can apply for the trademark and if ... gets permission ... can use it." Source: https://mail.python.org/pipermail/inpycon/2016-October/010803.html * As agreed, the site looks up at http://pune.pycon.org/ $ whois pycon.org | grep Organization Registrant Organization: Python Software Foundation Admin Organization: Python Software Foundation Tech Organization: Python Software Foundation * I request the organizers of PyCon Pune to add a "Friends" page providing links to other Python events and conferences in India. * The keynote in PyCon India 2016 talked about "building bridges", and people, today, are sadly always thinking of "building bricks". This discussion is a good example for the same. The fact that PyCon Pune folks set out to try something at the scale of PyCon is itself an achievement! I hope and wish other regional Python communities aim to scale higher. * You and I can afford to come to an annual conference once a year in Delhi or Bengaluru. But, think about people living in other tier cities. If you can bring the scale of PyCon (multiple) to nearby cities, you are giving them an opportunity. I am thankful that PSF understood the same. Yes, it is not convention. But, communities give you the freedom to innovate, and you and I cannot curb that! * There are some conferences that are sponsored and run exclusively by companies because they own the copyright. But, they are also quite explicit about it. The Erlang language, for example, is copyrighted by Ericsson, and the Erlang User Conference is conducted annually only in Stockholm, Sweden. * In a community, it does not matter what your designation is. All that matters is what voluntary work you do. You cannot dictate anything to others and vice versa. Sure, there are experienced people who can guide others, but, everyone is still a volunteer. * I will encourage people to read history, and understand the difference between an authoritative 'cathedral' model and the community 'bazaar' model. http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/ I shall end with a quote from C. Joybell: ?We can't be afraid of change. You may feel very secure in the pond that you are in, but if you never venture out of it, you will never know that there is such a thing as an ocean, a sea. Holding onto something that is good for you now, may be the very reason why you don't have something better.? Best wishes! SK -- Shakthi Kannan http://www.shakthimaan.com From thinrhino at gmail.com Wed Nov 2 05:32:54 2016 From: thinrhino at gmail.com (Thin Rhino) Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2016 15:02:54 +0530 Subject: [Inpycon] Announcing PyCon Pune 2017 & Call for Volunteers In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: On 2 November 2016 at 14:52, Shakthi Kannan wrote: * In a community, it does not matter what your designation is. All > that matters is what voluntary work you do. You cannot dictate > anything to others and vice versa. Sure, there are experienced people > who can guide others, but, everyone is still a volunteer. > My point exactly. The question is who are the people behind this conference. Who decided how to and when to conduct the conference? etc. Why was this never discussed on the Python Pune mailing list. Why was it directly announced without letting the community know about the intentions of this said conference. AND AGAIN I ITERATE, IT IS NOT ABOUT THE NAME OF THE CONFERENCE. Regards Aditya -- "Ship is safe at harbor but it is not made for that." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shakthimaan at gmail.com Wed Nov 2 05:59:06 2016 From: shakthimaan at gmail.com (Shakthi Kannan) Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2016 15:29:06 +0530 Subject: [Inpycon] Announcing PyCon Pune 2017 & Call for Volunteers In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: Hi, --- On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 3:02 PM, Thin Rhino wrote: | Why was this never discussed on the Python Pune mailing list. | | Why was it directly announced without letting the community know about the | intentions of this said conference. \-- That is up to the volunteers of the organizing event to decide. A mailing list is not an authoritative body. --- | AND AGAIN I ITERATE, IT IS NOT ABOUT THE NAME OF THE CONFERENCE. \-- :) https://mail.python.org/pipermail/inpycon/2016-October/010779.html The initial discussions were on the naming of the conference. Unfortunately, "Complaining does not work as a strategy." ~ Randy Pausch Regards, SK -- Shakthi Kannan http://www.shakthimaan.com From thinrhino at gmail.com Wed Nov 2 06:20:37 2016 From: thinrhino at gmail.com (Thin Rhino) Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2016 15:50:37 +0530 Subject: [Inpycon] Announcing PyCon Pune 2017 & Call for Volunteers In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: On 02-Nov-2016 3:29 PM, "Shakthi Kannan" wrote: > > Hi, > > --- On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 3:02 PM, Thin Rhino wrote: > | Why was this never discussed on the Python Pune mailing list. > | > | Why was it directly announced without letting the community know about the > | intentions of this said conference. > \-- > > That is up to the volunteers of the organizing event to decide. A > mailing list is not an authoritative body. > Excellent! Thank you for clarifying that a certain set of people of the community can decide things and take decisions and use the name of the bigger community in organising an event. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From yk.301189 at gmail.com Wed Nov 2 06:23:07 2016 From: yk.301189 at gmail.com (Yogesh Kumar) Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2016 15:53:07 +0530 Subject: [Inpycon] Announcing PyCon Pune 2017 & Call for Volunteers In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: It seems like they are not keen to organizing the event, rather use Pycon name. On Nov 2, 2016 15:50, "Thin Rhino" wrote: > On 02-Nov-2016 3:29 PM, "Shakthi Kannan" wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > --- On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 3:02 PM, Thin Rhino > wrote: > > | Why was this never discussed on the Python Pune mailing list. > > | > > | Why was it directly announced without letting the community know about > the > > | intentions of this said conference. > > \-- > > > > That is up to the volunteers of the organizing event to decide. A > > mailing list is not an authoritative body. > > > > Excellent! Thank you for clarifying that a certain set of people of the > community can decide things and take decisions and use the name of the > bigger community in organising an event. > > _______________________________________________ > Inpycon mailing list > Inpycon at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/inpycon > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shakthimaan at gmail.com Wed Nov 2 07:06:02 2016 From: shakthimaan at gmail.com (Shakthi Kannan) Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2016 16:36:02 +0530 Subject: [Inpycon] Announcing PyCon Pune 2017 & Call for Volunteers In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: Hi, --- On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 3:50 PM, Thin Rhino wrote: | Thank you for clarifying that a certain set of people of the | community can decide things and take decisions \-- Communities thrive with volunteers, and that is how they grow and flourish. --- | bigger community \-- "bigger" and "community" are subjective and relative. Regards, SK -- Shakthi Kannan http://www.shakthimaan.com From thinrhino at gmail.com Wed Nov 2 07:20:29 2016 From: thinrhino at gmail.com (Thin Rhino) Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2016 16:50:29 +0530 Subject: [Inpycon] Announcing PyCon Pune 2017 & Call for Volunteers In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: On 02-Nov-2016 4:36 PM, "Shakthi Kannan" wrote: > > --- On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 3:50 PM, Thin Rhino wrote: > | Thank you for clarifying that a certain set of people of the > | community can decide things and take decisions > \-- > > Communities thrive with volunteers, and that is how they grow and flourish. > > --- > | bigger community > \-- > > "bigger" and "community" are subjective and relative. Thank you for promoting non-democratic working of communities. May the community flourish. Apologies for trying to get some transparency in the works of a community. I just lost respect for a lot of people. Anybody who wants to take over the Python Pune mailing list, twitter account and IRC Account let me know I shall hand over all passwords. Feel free to run the community in your own terms and conditions. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shakthimaan at gmail.com Wed Nov 2 07:31:56 2016 From: shakthimaan at gmail.com (Shakthi Kannan) Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2016 17:01:56 +0530 Subject: [Inpycon] Announcing PyCon Pune 2017 & Call for Volunteers In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: Hi, --- On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 3:53 PM, Yogesh Kumar wrote: | It seems like they are not keen to organizing the event, \-- Why would they announce a CFP? https://pyconpune.talkfunnel.com/2017/ You might also want to checkout #pyconpune on irc.freenode.net. SK -- Shakthi Kannan http://www.shakthimaan.com From shakthimaan at gmail.com Wed Nov 2 07:38:31 2016 From: shakthimaan at gmail.com (Shakthi Kannan) Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2016 17:08:31 +0530 Subject: [Inpycon] Announcing PyCon Pune 2017 & Call for Volunteers In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: Hi, --- On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Thin Rhino wrote: | Thank you for promoting non-democratic working of communities. \-- Either you read history and learn how communities work, or you don't. Complaining is not an option. --- | Anybody who wants to take over the Python Pune mailing list, twitter account | and IRC Account let me know I shall hand over all passwords. \-- Good luck and best wishes! SK -- Shakthi Kannan http://www.shakthimaan.com From thinrhino at gmail.com Wed Nov 2 10:47:21 2016 From: thinrhino at gmail.com (Thin Rhino) Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2016 20:17:21 +0530 Subject: [Inpycon] PythonPune moderatorship up from grabs Message-ID: Hello, I have realised that the Python Pune community is for people who have vested self interest & personal agendas. The organisers of the PyCon Pune conference fall in this category. Senior members of this community don't encourage transparency, democracy and accountability. I have no interest in being a part of such a community. I am giving up my membership to this community, so people with their vested interests can carry it forward from here. If anybody is interested to take up the role of active moderator of PythonPune mailing list, PythonPune twitter handle do let me know here. Cheers Aditya Laghate -- "Ship is safe at harbor but it is not made for that." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chandankumar.093047 at gmail.com Wed Nov 2 11:03:38 2016 From: chandankumar.093047 at gmail.com (chandan kumar) Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2016 20:33:38 +0530 Subject: [Inpycon] Call for Proposals for PyCon Pune 2017 Message-ID: Hello, We are delighted to announce that PyCon Pune 2017 [1]. is the Python Programming Language community Conference, happening from Feb 16th to 19th Feb 2017. It will consists of two days of talks (16th and 17th Feb, 17) at COEP, Pune and working on upstream projects in two days of dev sprint (18th and 19th Feb, 17) at Red Hat, Pune. If you are a Pythonista, doing some cool stuff using Python Programming Language in different fields, if you are an upstream OpenSource Python Developer, want to share your ideas to the world. Feel free to submit your proposals for PyCon Pune 2017. Here is the link to submit talks: [2]. The last date of CFP is 30th Nov 2016. If you have any queries, Feel free to ask on PythonPune google groups [3] or ping us on #pyconpune channel on Freenode server or tweet us on https://twitter.com/pyconpune. Links: [1]. https://pune.pycon.org/ [2]. https://pune.pycon.org/#cfp [3]. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/PythonPune Thanks, Chandan Kumar -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thinrhino at gmail.com Wed Nov 2 12:03:54 2016 From: thinrhino at gmail.com (Thin Rhino) Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2016 21:33:54 +0530 Subject: [Inpycon] [pythonpune] Call for Proposals for PyCon Pune 2017 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This is exactly the kind of shamelessness I am talking about. No willingness to discuss the aspects of organising an event only propaganda. Shame on all of you organising the PyCon Pune event. Chandan, I am making you the moderator of Python Pune mailing list, please feel free to exploit the community for your vested self interest. Kushal, this kind of behaviour was not expected from a senior member like you. Have fun exploiting the community for your personal benefits. On 02-Nov-2016 8:34 PM, "chandan kumar" wrote: > Hello, > > We are delighted to announce that PyCon Pune 2017 [1]. is the Python > Programming Language community Conference, happening from Feb 16th to 19th > Feb 2017. > > It will consists of two days of talks (16th and 17th Feb, 17) at COEP, Pune > and working on upstream projects in two days of dev sprint (18th and 19th > Feb, 17) at Red Hat, Pune. > > If you are a Pythonista, doing some cool stuff using Python Programming > Language in different fields, if you are an upstream OpenSource Python > Developer, want to share your ideas to the world. Feel free to submit your > proposals for PyCon Pune 2017. > > Here is the link to submit talks: [2]. > > The last date of CFP is 30th Nov 2016. > > If you have any queries, Feel free to ask on PythonPune google groups [3] > or ping us on #pyconpune channel on Freenode server or tweet us on > https://twitter.com/pyconpune. > > Links: > [1]. https://pune.pycon.org/ > [2]. https://pune.pycon.org/#cfp > [3]. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/PythonPune > > Thanks, > > Chandan Kumar > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Python Pune" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to pythonpune+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Wed Nov 2 13:13:55 2016 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2016 22:43:55 +0530 Subject: [Inpycon] Announcing PyCon Pune 2017 & Call for Volunteers In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: <7c1a17f29d73452d237d8cb53393375f@hcoop.net> The way this thing was pushed left a bad taste in atleast my mouth and I don't think I really want to be a part of the event. When the event was announced, I brought up the issue of the name (which I think is important). I'm perfectly willing to be argued out of my position but the lack of an attempt to do that suggests, to me, that the people behind the conference just want to conduct the event regardless of what people outside the organising committee, who are arguably part of a larger python community, think. This is not to say that the whole affair is wrong, bad or in any way negative. I think of it as something conducted by a closed private set of people which is open to the general public only for participation during the actual event. All the best! On , Thin Rhino wrote: > Would like to register a protest with the python community in general > that, this "PyconPune" is being organised by a few select individuals > without ever discussing it on the local community ML. > > I see this as a clear effort of these select individuals to fragment > the community. Request the community to boycott this conference. > > Regards > Aditya Laghate > _______________________________________________ > Inpycon mailing list > Inpycon at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/inpycon From deshpande.jaidev at gmail.com Wed Nov 2 13:30:26 2016 From: deshpande.jaidev at gmail.com (Jaidev Deshpande) Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2016 17:30:26 +0000 Subject: [Inpycon] Announcing PyCon Pune 2017 & Call for Volunteers In-Reply-To: <7c1a17f29d73452d237d8cb53393375f@hcoop.net> References:

<7c1a17f29d73452d237d8cb53393375f@hcoop.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Nov 2016 at 22:44 Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > The way this thing was pushed left a bad taste in atleast my mouth and I > don't think I really want to be a part of the event. > > When the event was announced, I brought up the issue of the name (which > I think is important). I'm perfectly willing to be argued out of my > position but the lack of an attempt to do that suggests, to me, that > the people behind the conference just want to conduct the event > regardless of what people outside the organising committee, who are > arguably part of a larger python community, think. > This is precisely the point that Aditya, Chinmay, Vikas and I have been trying to make. ( https://mail.python.org/pipermail/inpycon/2016-November/010832.html) Just going through the archives of pythonpune at googlegroups.com will make you realize: 1. Announcements about events are made way too often 2. Discussions about events are almost non-existent. And these concerns have been communicated time and again to both the inpycon and the pythonpune mailing lists. The unwillingness of people to even respond to them is telling. We understand that nobody is entitled to an explanation here. Nobody is responsible for providing one. If you do it, you would probably be doing it out of common courtesy. This lack of courtesy is what is saddening. > > This is not to say that the whole affair is wrong, bad or in any way > negative. I think of it as something conducted by a closed private set > of people which is open to the general public only for participation > during the actual event. > > All the best! > > On , Thin Rhino wrote: > > Would like to register a protest with the python community in general > > that, this "PyconPune" is being organised by a few select individuals > > without ever discussing it on the local community ML. > > > > I see this as a clear effort of these select individuals to fragment > > the community. Request the community to boycott this conference. > > > > Regards > > Aditya Laghate > > _______________________________________________ > > Inpycon mailing list > > Inpycon at python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/inpycon > > _______________________________________________ > Inpycon mailing list > Inpycon at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/inpycon > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gora at mimirtech.com Wed Nov 2 13:46:38 2016 From: gora at mimirtech.com (Gora Mohanty) Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2016 23:16:38 +0530 Subject: [Inpycon] Announcing PyCon Pune 2017 & Call for Volunteers In-Reply-To: References:

<7c1a17f29d73452d237d8cb53393375f@hcoop.net> Message-ID: Hi, Not directed at anyone in particular, and nor do I want to jump into the middle of what seems to be an ongoing argument that I have little background on, and less time to get into. However, as someone higher up in the thread suggested, can we look for solutions rather than painting ourselves into intractable corners? The pragmatism of the Python community, and their inclusiveness, was what convinced me earlier to get involved at a time when I was quite strictly solely pro-open-source conferences. It is dismaying to see such acrimony. What would it take to fix this: a hangout session? Regards, Gora -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Wed Nov 2 23:35:44 2016 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2016 09:05:44 +0530 Subject: [Inpycon] Announcing PyCon Pune 2017 & Call for Volunteers In-Reply-To: References:

<7c1a17f29d73452d237d8cb53393375f@hcoop.net> Message-ID: <1d927419f26d4e9a18c8b24adb201afb@hcoop.net> On , Gora Mohanty wrote: [..] > However, as someone higher up in the thread suggested, can we look for > solutions rather than painting ourselves into intractable corners? The > pragmatism of the Python community, and their inclusiveness, was what > convinced me earlier to get involved at a time when I was quite > strictly solely pro-open-source conferences. It is dismaying to see > such acrimony. What would it take to fix this: a hangout session? I'm game. Although I don't think it's unsolvable with just the mailing list. Jaidev and Aditya are asking for some transparency into what's going on. That's quite easily fixable by the people doing the work of organising PyCon Pune. A little historical note here. I used to advocate using the mailing list for all discussions no matter how messy and chaotic it became. It worked well for me and while some people found it overwhelming, lack of transparency wasn't a big problem (atleast I think not). When the whole affair grew, this bazaar style of doing things didn't really cut it for many people and various other more focussed channels for discussing things came up (e.g. junction for talk selections and reviews, a contact at in.pycon.org mail alias etc.). This made things more efficient but at the cost of less transparency. I'm not sure what the way ahead is. From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Wed Nov 2 23:43:55 2016 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2016 09:13:55 +0530 Subject: [Inpycon] Announcing PyCon Pune 2017 & Call for Volunteers In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: Just in case I've been misconstrued at endorsing a boycott, I'm not. I don't think I'll have time to volunteer for the event but I will definitely try to attend it. I'm not very happy with the way in which it's being run but I'm not the one running it (or even a volunteer) so my opinions are really not worth much. On , Thin Rhino wrote: > Would like to register a protest with the python community in general > that, this "PyconPune" is being organised by a few select individuals > without ever discussing it on the local community ML. > > I see this as a clear effort of these select individuals to fragment > the community. Request the community to boycott this conference. > > Regards > Aditya Laghate > _______________________________________________ > Inpycon mailing list > Inpycon at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/inpycon From musicandprathamesh at gmail.com Thu Nov 3 00:43:38 2016 From: musicandprathamesh at gmail.com (Prathamesh Chavan) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2016 10:13:38 +0530 Subject: [Inpycon] Announcing PyCon Pune 2017 & Call for Volunteers In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: Hello All! I'm really excited to be a part of this conference. I couldn't attend PyCon Delhi because of some reasons but I'm definitely looking forward to this one. If we arrange a room with a big table, a couple of chairs and a projector, then people might call that room as a Conference room whereas some people like me might call it as a dining room :P At the end, name doesn't matter, what matters is what you did, what you achieved and how much you enjoyed it. If the food in the marriage reception is tasty, people tend to eat a lot. No one really bothers who was the caterer/chef who prepared it. Same is the case here. I wont really bother who is organizing and who is not. At the end, as an attendee, I want to to grab as much as I can out of this event. Still my best wishes to everyone! Regards, Prathamesh Chavan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thinrhino at gmail.com Thu Nov 3 00:45:03 2016 From: thinrhino at gmail.com (Thin Rhino) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2016 10:15:03 +0530 Subject: [Inpycon] Announcing PyCon Pune 2017 & Call for Volunteers In-Reply-To: <1d927419f26d4e9a18c8b24adb201afb@hcoop.net> References:

<7c1a17f29d73452d237d8cb53393375f@hcoop.net> <1d927419f26d4e9a18c8b24adb201afb@hcoop.net> Message-ID: On 3 November 2016 at 09:05, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > A little historical note here. I used to advocate using the mailing list > for all discussions no matter how messy and chaotic it became. It worked > well for me and while some people found it overwhelming, lack of > transparency wasn't a big problem (atleast I think not). When the whole > affair grew, this bazaar style of doing things didn't really cut it for > many people and various other more focussed channels for discussing things > came up (e.g. junction for talk selections and reviews, a > contact at in.pycon.org mail alias etc.). This made things more efficient > but at the cost of less transparency. > > I'm not sure what the way ahead is. > I completely understand that the bazaar way of things don't work. For all practical purposes a small core group will do the work and not every planning detail is expected to be shared on the group. But, first basic intimation of thought of conducting a conference, inviting interested people to join the core group, a few pointers on the progress and such information HAS be posted on the group. That is the level of transparency is required. Currently, Kushal Das and Chandan Kumar are running this show as if it is their private conference. I really wonder why Kushal is not holding this conference under his DGPLUG banner and wants to use the PythonPune banner to conduct this conference? Historically, I am aware that Chandan wanted to conduct PyCon 2016 in Pune, but PyDelhi team was much stronger for him to compete. I believe now Kushal is just enabling Chandan to prove that Pune can conduct PyPune 2017 or 18. But sadly, using all the wrong methods to do so. Anyways, I know that we Indians (99%) have no regard for morals, so even if something is morally wrong we will still endorse it, in public and will still attend the conference. We all will eat at an illegal stall and complain, why the govt. cannot remove these illegal stalls. Have fun folks Adi-os! -- "Ship is safe at harbor but it is not made for that." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From yash14123 at iiitd.ac.in Thu Nov 3 01:00:12 2016 From: yash14123 at iiitd.ac.in (Yash Sherry) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2016 10:30:12 +0530 Subject: [Inpycon] Announcing PyCon Pune 2017 & Call for Volunteers In-Reply-To: References:

<7c1a17f29d73452d237d8cb53393375f@hcoop.net> <1d927419f26d4e9a18c8b24adb201afb@hcoop.net> Message-ID: Now that everyone knows about this, can't there be a vote casting among the core members about what should really be happening in this case? Transparency is nothing much to ask for, especially when he has been one of the most active members. I clearly think there should be a proper discussion on this with everyone involved in organising this. On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 10:15 AM, Thin Rhino wrote: > > On 3 November 2016 at 09:05, Noufal Ibrahim > wrote: > >> A little historical note here. I used to advocate using the mailing list >> for all discussions no matter how messy and chaotic it became. It worked >> well for me and while some people found it overwhelming, lack of >> transparency wasn't a big problem (atleast I think not). When the whole >> affair grew, this bazaar style of doing things didn't really cut it for >> many people and various other more focussed channels for discussing things >> came up (e.g. junction for talk selections and reviews, a >> contact at in.pycon.org mail alias etc.). This made things more efficient >> but at the cost of less transparency. >> >> I'm not sure what the way ahead is. >> > > I completely understand that the bazaar way of things don't work. > > For all practical purposes a small core group will do the work and not > every planning detail is expected to be shared on the group. But, first > basic intimation of thought of conducting a conference, inviting interested > people to join the core group, a few pointers on the progress and such > information HAS be posted on the group. > > That is the level of transparency is required. > > Currently, Kushal Das and Chandan Kumar are running this show as if it is > their private conference. I really wonder why Kushal is not holding this > conference under his DGPLUG banner and wants to use the PythonPune banner > to conduct this conference? Historically, I am aware that Chandan wanted to > conduct PyCon 2016 in Pune, but PyDelhi team was much stronger for him to > compete. I believe now Kushal is just enabling Chandan to prove that Pune > can conduct PyPune 2017 or 18. But sadly, using all the wrong methods to do > so. > > Anyways, I know that we Indians (99%) have no regard for morals, so even > if something is morally wrong we will still endorse it, in public and will > still attend the conference. We all will eat at an illegal stall and > complain, why the govt. cannot remove these illegal stalls. > > Have fun folks > > Adi-os! > > > -- > "Ship is safe at harbor but it is not made for that." > > _______________________________________________ > Inpycon mailing list > Inpycon at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/inpycon > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shakthimaan at gmail.com Thu Nov 3 03:01:39 2016 From: shakthimaan at gmail.com (Shakthi Kannan) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2016 12:31:39 +0530 Subject: [Inpycon] Announcing PyCon Pune 2017 & Call for Volunteers In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: Hi, --- On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 10:13 AM, Prathamesh Chavan wrote: | I couldn't attend PyCon ... because of some reasons \-- Exactly! A decentralized conference network can cater to different regions and times, but, not a centralized one. * Richard Stallman started the Free Software movement because he felt there was a right to software freedom. His crusade for Free Software can be read from: http://www.oreilly.com/openbook/freedom/ * Linus Torvalds wanted a free kernel and the modification and distribution of MINIX was restricted, and hence he wrote Linux. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Linux#Events_leading_to_creation * Sitaram Chamarthy (TCS, Hyderabad) wrote gitolite because he felt there was a use case for fine-grained access control for Git. Today, it is used to manage Git servers with directory-level access. * "Foo Camp" (Friends of O'Reilly) is organized by O'Reilly media. "Bar camp" was started to have a more ad-hoc conference setup. Each serves its own intended audience. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foo_Camp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BarCamp None of these people asked you for your opinion! They felt there was a need, and hence spear-headed and championed their work. It is easy to criticize, but, it is hard to do constructive work. You are entitled for your opinion. But, if all that you want to do is complain, and wish to be known for the same, then I only feel sorry for you. Communities grow and flourish because of volunteers who do the ground work. Regards, SK -- Shakthi Kannan http://www.shakthimaan.com From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Thu Nov 3 04:25:28 2016 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2016 13:55:28 +0530 Subject: [Inpycon] Announcing PyCon Pune 2017 & Call for Volunteers In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: On , Shakthi Kannan wrote: [..] > It is easy to criticize, but, it is hard to do constructive work. Every differing opinion or suggestion is not negative criticism. But really, this is not going anywhere. The conference is going ahead full steam and the details are apparently worked out somewhere other than on this list. From shakthimaan at gmail.com Thu Nov 3 05:22:24 2016 From: shakthimaan at gmail.com (Shakthi Kannan) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2016 14:52:24 +0530 Subject: [Inpycon] Announcing PyCon Pune 2017 & Call for Volunteers In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: Hi Noufal: --- On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 1:55 PM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: | Every differing opinion or suggestion is not negative criticism. \-- I haven't heard anything positive from the *complaintiffs* yet :) --- | But really, this is not going anywhere. \-- I am going to request the organizers of PyCon Pune conference for a one hour time slot for community discussions. I am friends with members of PSSI, non-PSSI and the organizers of PyCon Pune conference. Since I am proposing this, I would like to volunteer to moderate the session. Since you are going to attend the conference, would you like to share your opinion on the platform along with the others? I want all of you to vent it out of your system, so that, you can focus on what do you do best ... Python. SK -- Shakthi Kannan http://www.shakthimaan.com From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Thu Nov 3 05:46:22 2016 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2016 15:16:22 +0530 Subject: [Inpycon] Announcing PyCon Pune 2017 & Call for Volunteers In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: On , Shakthi Kannan wrote: [..] > I haven't heard anything positive from the *complaintiffs* yet :) Aditya's call to be more inclusive and alteast talk about things on the mailing list is, in my opinion, very positive. And I haven't anything (positive or negative) from the organisers on this list. > Since you are going to attend the conference, would you like to share > your opinion on the platform along with the others? I think I missed a memo here. The "platform" till now was the mailing list and we never needed a moderator except to prevent spam. What new problems will your alternate system solve? As for my opnions, I've shared them here but didn't get any replies except from you and those didn't address my concerns. And look, I'm not against this happening. I will pitch in if I have time (regardless of the name and closed nature). I'm just saying that it's being organised by a cabal and that's counter to all the fine views about community and other such things that you've been expositing on. From shakthimaan at gmail.com Thu Nov 3 06:04:54 2016 From: shakthimaan at gmail.com (Shakthi Kannan) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2016 15:34:54 +0530 Subject: [Inpycon] Announcing PyCon Pune 2017 & Call for Volunteers In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: Hi Noufal, --- On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 3:16 PM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: | The "platform" till now was the mailing list \-- Mailing lists are a "passive" form of communication. --- | and we never needed a | moderator except to prevent spam. What new problems will your alternate | system solve? \-- Face-to-face discussions are an "active" form of communication, and greatly helps to have an open dialogue. It is good to have these engaging sessions for periodic feedback and retrospection. SK -- Shakthi Kannan http://www.shakthimaan.com From noufal at nibrahim.net.in Thu Nov 3 06:36:10 2016 From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2016 16:06:10 +0530 Subject: [Inpycon] Announcing PyCon Pune 2017 & Call for Volunteers In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: On , Shakthi Kannan wrote: > Hi Noufal, > > --- On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 3:16 PM, Noufal Ibrahim > wrote: > | The "platform" till now was the mailing list > \-- > > Mailing lists are a "passive" form of communication. If you say so. As I told Gora, I'm game. Let me know when. From thinrhino at gmail.com Thu Nov 3 13:47:45 2016 From: thinrhino at gmail.com (Thin Rhino) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2016 23:17:45 +0530 Subject: [Inpycon] Announcing PyCon Pune 2017 & Call for Volunteers In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: On 3 November 2016 at 15:34, Shakthi Kannan wrote: > Face-to-face discussions are an "active" form of communication, and > greatly helps to have an open dialogue. > > It is good to have these engaging sessions for periodic feedback and > retrospection. > Lets do that, I am game! Are Kushal and Chandan willing to join in the conversation? -- "Ship is safe at harbor but it is not made for that." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kushaldas at gmail.com Thu Nov 3 13:49:09 2016 From: kushaldas at gmail.com (Kushal Das) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2016 23:19:09 +0530 Subject: [Inpycon] [pythonpune] Re: Announcing PyCon Pune 2017 & Call for Volunteers In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: Hi, To begin, let me apologize for the delay in response - I was traveling and wanted to take time to respond to this without escalating this further. The idea of having a PyCon in Pune started in July, before PyCon India in Delhi when Chandan sent an email to the local mailing list about hosting PyCon India in Pune next year. The email did not see a lot of responses and the thread died more or less as soon as it started. We (Chandan, Sayan, etc.) followed up that idea in Delhi and during those discussions people (including those from PSF) reminded us that there was absolutely no problem with doing more than one PyCon in one country, and that was encouraging. The idea of having more than one Python event in a year also seemed great because it meant we did not have to wait till September next year to meet again. The idea seemed great for another reason - we could have a slightly different focus for this PyCon, with the possibility of hosting developer sprints that will allow local developers to work with contributors to key Open Source projects like Django, CPython, etc. To see if this idea was even possible we reached out to some key contributors early to see if they could join us. In parallel Chandan sent out a call for volunteers in which he specifically mentioned that an organizing committee would be formed out of the volunteer group. He also sent out communication about the website initial draft and later the CfP. We have had almost 100 volunteers so far, some of whom have even started sending pull requests for the website design. I can't see what additional communication is necessary to urge those who have refused to sign up as volunteers, to get them to join us. That said, we would love to hear constructive feedback (that does not involve calling people 'shameless' or other names) and would like to know what else we can do to make the local community feel more involved if they already aren't. One idea is to send out a summary every week following our meetings for those who are unable to attend. We also have #pyconpune channel on Freenode server (IRC), where we are having live conversation among volunteers. Kushal From kushaldas at gmail.com Thu Nov 3 13:57:35 2016 From: kushaldas at gmail.com (Kushal Das) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2016 23:27:35 +0530 Subject: [Inpycon] Announcing PyCon Pune 2017 & Call for Volunteers In-Reply-To: References:

<7c1a17f29d73452d237d8cb53393375f@hcoop.net> <1d927419f26d4e9a18c8b24adb201afb@hcoop.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 10:15 AM, Thin Rhino wrote: > > On 3 November 2016 at 09:05, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: >> >> A little historical note here. I used to advocate using the mailing list >> for all discussions no matter how messy and chaotic it became. It worked >> well for me and while some people found it overwhelming, lack of >> transparency wasn't a big problem (atleast I think not). When the whole >> affair grew, this bazaar style of doing things didn't really cut it for many >> people and various other more focussed channels for discussing things came >> up (e.g. junction for talk selections and reviews, a contact at in.pycon.org >> mail alias etc.). This made things more efficient but at the cost of less >> transparency. >> >> I'm not sure what the way ahead is. > > > I completely understand that the bazaar way of things don't work. > > For all practical purposes a small core group will do the work and not every > planning detail is expected to be shared on the group. But, first basic > intimation of thought of conducting a conference, inviting interested people > to join the core group, a few pointers on the progress and such information > HAS be posted on the group. We have sent out the mail for joining in to help the conference. How much more core do you want to be than being a volunteer, and an organizer? > > That is the level of transparency is required. > > Currently, Kushal Das and Chandan Kumar are running this show as if it is > their private conference. I really wonder why Kushal is not holding this > conference under his DGPLUG banner and wants to use the PythonPune banner to > conduct this conference? Historically, I am aware that Chandan wanted to > conduct PyCon 2016 in Pune, but PyDelhi team was much stronger for him to > compete. I believe now Kushal is just enabling Chandan to prove that Pune > can conduct PyPune 2017 or 18. But sadly, using all the wrong methods to do > so. > > Anyways, I know that we Indians (99%) have no regard for morals, so even if > something is morally wrong we will still endorse it, in public and will > still attend the conference. We all will eat at an illegal stall and > complain, why the govt. cannot remove these illegal stalls. What is immoral in attending a conference about Python? or organizing a Python conference. Kushal -- Fedora Cloud Engineer CPython Core Developer http://kushaldas.in From rahulrb0509 at gmail.com Thu Nov 3 14:02:47 2016 From: rahulrb0509 at gmail.com (rahul bajaj) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2016 23:32:47 +0530 Subject: [Inpycon] Announcing PyCon Pune 2017 & Call for Volunteers In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Thin Rhino wrote: > On 02-Nov-2016 4:36 PM, "Shakthi Kannan" wrote: > > > > --- On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 3:50 PM, Thin Rhino > wrote: > > | Thank you for clarifying that a certain set of people of the > > | community can decide things and take decisions > > \-- > > > > Communities thrive with volunteers, and that is how they grow and > flourish. > > > > --- > > | bigger community > > \-- > > > > "bigger" and "community" are subjective and relative. > > Thank you for promoting non-democratic working of communities. May the > community flourish. > > Apologies for trying to get some transparency in the works of a community. > > I just lost respect for a lot of people. > > Anybody who wants to take over the Python Pune mailing list, twitter > account and IRC Account let me know I shall hand over all passwords. Feel > free to run the community in your own terms and conditions. > Hey, Thin Rhino, I am really proud to be a part of the python community and would happily take over the Python Pune mailing list, twitter account and IRC Account from you. Please mail me all the details so that i can proceed with the work and help our community flourish. ... Rahul Bajaj > _______________________________________________ > Inpycon mailing list > Inpycon at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/inpycon > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thinrhino at gmail.com Thu Nov 3 14:03:56 2016 From: thinrhino at gmail.com (Thin Rhino) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2016 23:33:56 +0530 Subject: [Inpycon] [pythonpune] Re: Announcing PyCon Pune 2017 & Call for Volunteers In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: Thank you Kushal for your email. a. The email you refer to sent in June 2016, even Chandan did not reply to suggestions given to him. (https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/PythonPune/SGqbgfgv6iA) b. Once the idea was followed up in Delhi, it was expected that somebody would take the effort to update the community for the benefit of those not present in Delhi. c. Call for volunteers was sent out only after most of the things were finalised by a small group of people minus any feedback from the community. d. Constructive feedback would had come if somebody would have made an effort of asking about it. Cheers On 3 November 2016 at 23:19, Kushal Das wrote: > Hi, > > To begin, let me apologize for the delay in response - I was traveling > and wanted to take time to respond to this without escalating this > further. > > The idea of having a PyCon in Pune started in July, before PyCon > India in Delhi when Chandan sent an email to the local mailing list about > hosting PyCon India in Pune next year. The email did not see a lot of > responses and the thread died more or less as soon as it started. We > (Chandan, Sayan, etc.) followed up that idea in Delhi and during those > discussions people (including those from PSF) reminded us that there > was absolutely no problem with doing more than one PyCon in one > country, and that was encouraging. The idea of having more than one > Python event in a year also seemed great because it meant we did not > have to wait till September next year to meet again. The idea seemed > great for another reason - we could have a slightly different focus > for this PyCon, with the possibility of hosting developer sprints that > will allow local developers to work with contributors to key Open > Source projects like Django, CPython, etc. > > To see if this idea was even possible we reached out to some key > contributors early to see if they could join us. In parallel Chandan > sent out a call for volunteers in which he specifically mentioned that > an organizing committee would be formed out of the volunteer group. > He also sent out communication about the website initial draft and > later the CfP. > > We have had almost 100 volunteers so far, some of whom have even > started sending pull requests for the website design. I can't see > what additional communication is necessary to urge those who have > refused to sign up as volunteers, to get them to join us. > > That said, we would love to hear constructive feedback (that does not > involve calling people 'shameless' or other names) and would like to > know what else we can do to make the local community feel more > involved if they already aren't. One idea is to send out a summary > every week following our meetings for those who are unable to attend. > We also have #pyconpune channel on Freenode server (IRC), where we > are having live conversation among volunteers. > > Kushal > _______________________________________________ > Inpycon mailing list > Inpycon at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/inpycon > -- "Ship is safe at harbor but it is not made for that." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thinrhino at gmail.com Thu Nov 3 14:05:42 2016 From: thinrhino at gmail.com (Thin Rhino) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2016 23:35:42 +0530 Subject: [Inpycon] Announcing PyCon Pune 2017 & Call for Volunteers In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: Hey Rahul, I have granted Chandan manager privileges already and I stepped down. Twitter and IRC, will send across soon. On 3 November 2016 at 23:32, rahul bajaj wrote: > > > On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Thin Rhino wrote: > >> On 02-Nov-2016 4:36 PM, "Shakthi Kannan" wrote: >> > >> > --- On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 3:50 PM, Thin Rhino >> wrote: >> > | Thank you for clarifying that a certain set of people of the >> > | community can decide things and take decisions >> > \-- >> > >> > Communities thrive with volunteers, and that is how they grow and >> flourish. >> > >> > --- >> > | bigger community >> > \-- >> > >> > "bigger" and "community" are subjective and relative. >> >> Thank you for promoting non-democratic working of communities. May the >> community flourish. >> >> Apologies for trying to get some transparency in the works of a >> community. >> >> I just lost respect for a lot of people. >> >> Anybody who wants to take over the Python Pune mailing list, twitter >> account and IRC Account let me know I shall hand over all passwords. Feel >> free to run the community in your own terms and conditions. >> > Hey, Thin Rhino, I am really proud to be a part of the python community > and would happily take over the Python Pune mailing list, twitter account > and IRC Account from you. Please mail me all the details so that i can > proceed with the work and help our community flourish. > > > ... > > Rahul Bajaj > > >> _______________________________________________ >> Inpycon mailing list >> Inpycon at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/inpycon >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Inpycon mailing list > Inpycon at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/inpycon > > -- "Ship is safe at harbor but it is not made for that." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kushaldas at gmail.com Thu Nov 3 14:31:24 2016 From: kushaldas at gmail.com (Kushal Das) Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2016 00:01:24 +0530 Subject: [Inpycon] [pythonpune] Re: Announcing PyCon Pune 2017 & Call for Volunteers In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 11:33 PM, Thin Rhino wrote: > Thank you Kushal for your email. > > a. The email you refer to sent in June 2016, even Chandan did not reply to > suggestions given to him. > (https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/PythonPune/SGqbgfgv6iA) There were only one positive reply along with venue suggestion. I know for sure that Chandan made contact with the people we know from COEP. > > b. Once the idea was followed up in Delhi, it was expected that somebody > would take the effort to update the community for the benefit of those not > present in Delhi. It was a work in progress raw idea we were floating about. Why do you feel like we should be obliged to mail out every thought that we have before acting on it? > > c. Call for volunteers was sent out only after most of the things were > finalised by a small group of people minus any feedback from the community. > I already wrote in my mail how we reached out to the developers, and at the same time asked for people to join in. To decide venue, and many other details, it is not possible to wait for everyone to join in, and then discuss, and decide. We chose to fix a few problems of the conference as early as possible. > d. Constructive feedback would had come if somebody would have made an > effort of asking about it. We did, that was the call for volunteers and subsequent emails. Over 100 people responded and are pitching in. What additional effort do you expect to make you a willing volunteer? If it is reasonable we could try doing that but if you're expecting a participatory democracy, i.e. asking for opinions on every decision we take then that is not going to happen because of the latency in doing that. If you really want to be involved and not just complain then please volunteer, we would love to have more hands on board in every aspect of the event organization. Kushal > Cheers > > > > On 3 November 2016 at 23:19, Kushal Das wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> To begin, let me apologize for the delay in response - I was traveling >> and wanted to take time to respond to this without escalating this >> further. >> >> The idea of having a PyCon in Pune started in July, before PyCon >> India in Delhi when Chandan sent an email to the local mailing list about >> hosting PyCon India in Pune next year. The email did not see a lot of >> responses and the thread died more or less as soon as it started. We >> (Chandan, Sayan, etc.) followed up that idea in Delhi and during those >> discussions people (including those from PSF) reminded us that there >> was absolutely no problem with doing more than one PyCon in one >> country, and that was encouraging. The idea of having more than one >> Python event in a year also seemed great because it meant we did not >> have to wait till September next year to meet again. The idea seemed >> great for another reason - we could have a slightly different focus >> for this PyCon, with the possibility of hosting developer sprints that >> will allow local developers to work with contributors to key Open >> Source projects like Django, CPython, etc. >> >> To see if this idea was even possible we reached out to some key >> contributors early to see if they could join us. In parallel Chandan >> sent out a call for volunteers in which he specifically mentioned that >> an organizing committee would be formed out of the volunteer group. >> He also sent out communication about the website initial draft and >> later the CfP. >> >> We have had almost 100 volunteers so far, some of whom have even >> started sending pull requests for the website design. I can't see >> what additional communication is necessary to urge those who have >> refused to sign up as volunteers, to get them to join us. >> >> That said, we would love to hear constructive feedback (that does not >> involve calling people 'shameless' or other names) and would like to >> know what else we can do to make the local community feel more >> involved if they already aren't. One idea is to send out a summary >> every week following our meetings for those who are unable to attend. >> We also have #pyconpune channel on Freenode server (IRC), where we >> are having live conversation among volunteers. >> >> Kushal >> _______________________________________________ >> Inpycon mailing list >> Inpycon at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/inpycon > > > > > -- > "Ship is safe at harbor but it is not made for that." > > _______________________________________________ > Inpycon mailing list > Inpycon at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/inpycon > -- Fedora Cloud Engineer CPython Core Developer http://kushaldas.in From thinrhino at gmail.com Thu Nov 3 15:54:23 2016 From: thinrhino at gmail.com (Thin Rhino) Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2016 01:24:23 +0530 Subject: [Inpycon] [pythonpune] Re: Announcing PyCon Pune 2017 & Call for Volunteers In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: On 4 November 2016 at 00:01, Kushal Das wrote: > On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 11:33 PM, Thin Rhino wrote: > > Thank you Kushal for your email. > > > > a. The email you refer to sent in June 2016, even Chandan did not reply > to > > suggestions given to him. > > (https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/PythonPune/SGqbgfgv6iA) > > There were only one positive reply along with venue suggestion. I know for > sure > that Chandan made contact with the people we know from COEP. > How in the world does, asking to get "PyCon India 2017" to Pune, translate to organising "PyCon Pune 2017", an additional or parallel conference to PyCon India? > > > b. Once the idea was followed up in Delhi, it was expected that somebody > > would take the effort to update the community for the benefit of those > not > > present in Delhi. > > It was a work in progress raw idea we were floating about. Why do you feel > like we should be obliged to mail out every thought that we have before > acting on it? > The raw idea some day did become firm, that your team went about finalising a venue, dates and inviting people to give talks. And you never felt it was necessary to inform the local or India community about your plans. > > > > > c. Call for volunteers was sent out only after most of the things were > > finalised by a small group of people minus any feedback from the > community. > > > > I already wrote in my mail how we reached out to the developers, and at > the same > time asked for people to join in. To decide venue, and many other details, > it is not possible to wait for everyone to join in, and then discuss, > and decide. We > chose to fix a few problems of the conference as early as possible. How did you reach out to developers? A CC email to the list would have helped, right? > > d. Constructive feedback would had come if somebody would have made an > > effort of asking about it. > > We did, that was the call for volunteers and subsequent emails. Over 100 > people responded and are pitching in. What additional effort do you expect > to > make you a willing volunteer? If it is reasonable we could try doing that > but > if you're expecting a participatory democracy, i.e. asking for opinions on > every decision we take then that is not going to happen because of the > latency in doing that. If you really want to be involved and not just > complain then please volunteer, we would love to have more hands on board > in every aspect of the event organization. > Nobody expects all decisions to be taken on the mailing list. I ain't that naive. I too have organised large scale events for a few odd communities. But in all those communities, idea's were pitched, suggestions / inputs taken, and then with full clarity things were organised. Why did PyDelhi pitch their idea first on InPyCon? They too could have taken a stand you take and just gone about organising PyCon India and directly announced PyCon India in Delhi. Your logic is absolutely flawed. You talked about planning on IRC channel, did anybody announce that a dead IRC channel has become active? A quick google search for that showed me this, http://irc.netsplit.de/channels/details.php?room=%23pypune&net=freenode I don't see the topic set to PyCon Pune! -- "Ship is safe at harbor but it is not made for that." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shakthimaan at gmail.com Thu Nov 3 23:31:09 2016 From: shakthimaan at gmail.com (Shakthi Kannan) Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2016 09:01:09 +0530 Subject: [Inpycon] Announcing PyCon Pune 2017 & Call for Volunteers In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: Hi, --- On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 10:15 AM, Thin Rhino wrote: | using all the wrong methods to do so. \-- By that, you do realize you are accusing the PSF, who is supporting the cause of the event? You only agreed on October 17, 2016 that it was fine to use the trademarked name for the conference and it is the legitimate approach, and now you are disagreeing with your own statement! That is self-contradicting and not logical. "... can apply for the trademark and if ... gets permission ... can use it." Source: https://mail.python.org/pipermail/inpycon/2016-October/010803.html You have started to troll. You are neither contributing to the discussion, nor talking sense. I am going to forgive you for your inexperience, and I am going to ask others to do the same. Consider participating in community events first, so that you understand how things work. Until then, I am going to add you to the /ignore list, and I am going to request others to do the same. I wish you the best in your career. SK -- Shakthi Kannan http://www.shakthimaan.com From me at coolsvap.net Fri Nov 4 00:34:29 2016 From: me at coolsvap.net (Swapnil Kulkarni (coolsvap)) Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2016 10:04:29 +0530 Subject: [Inpycon] [pythonpune] Re: Announcing PyCon Pune 2017 & Call for Volunteers In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 11:19 PM, Kushal Das wrote: > Hi, > > To begin, let me apologize for the delay in response - I was traveling > and wanted to take time to respond to this without escalating this > further. > > The idea of having a PyCon in Pune started in July, before PyCon > India in Delhi when Chandan sent an email to the local mailing list about > hosting PyCon India in Pune next year. The email did not see a lot of > responses and the thread died more or less as soon as it started. We > (Chandan, Sayan, etc.) followed up that idea in Delhi and during those > discussions people (including those from PSF) reminded us that there > was absolutely no problem with doing more than one PyCon in one > country, and that was encouraging. The idea of having more than one > Python event in a year also seemed great because it meant we did not > have to wait till September next year to meet again. The idea seemed > great for another reason - we could have a slightly different focus > for this PyCon, with the possibility of hosting developer sprints that > will allow local developers to work with contributors to key Open > Source projects like Django, CPython, etc. > > To see if this idea was even possible we reached out to some key > contributors early to see if they could join us. In parallel Chandan > sent out a call for volunteers in which he specifically mentioned that > an organizing committee would be formed out of the volunteer group. > He also sent out communication about the website initial draft and > later the CfP. > > We have had almost 100 volunteers so far, some of whom have even > started sending pull requests for the website design. I can't see > what additional communication is necessary to urge those who have > refused to sign up as volunteers, to get them to join us. > > That said, we would love to hear constructive feedback (that does not > involve calling people 'shameless' or other names) and would like to > know what else we can do to make the local community feel more > involved if they already aren't. One idea is to send out a summary > every week following our meetings for those who are unable to attend. > We also have #pyconpune channel on Freenode server (IRC), where we > are having live conversation among volunteers. > > Kushal > _______________________________________________ > Inpycon mailing list > Inpycon at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/inpycon This is a befitting reply to all the queries (and allegations) raised for the event. AFAICS the volunteers and organizers can concentrate the energy on the event rather than keep the conversation alive. All the best! --- Swapnil From thinrhino at gmail.com Fri Nov 4 00:57:35 2016 From: thinrhino at gmail.com (Thin Rhino) Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2016 10:27:35 +0530 Subject: [Inpycon] Announcing PyCon Pune 2017 & Call for Volunteers In-Reply-To: References: