From noufal at gmail.com  Fri Apr  1 06:42:39 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 10:12:39 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] A few questions
Message-ID: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com>


There's some vagueness in my mind about a few things. I need them
clarified. 

1. What are the exact dates of the conference?

2. Has the venue been confirmed?

3. Is the tutorial day on the first day?

4. Are the tutorials separately paid for? 
        - Are the instructors given some kind of honorarium?
        - Are the students to expect some kind of notes etc.?

5. Is there a commercial organisation associated in India that can
   receive funds from abroad which we can use for the conference? I will
   try to get foreign sponsors to directly fund foreign speakers and
   things like that but if that doesn't work out, will this be possible?

-- 

From noufal at gmail.com  Fri Apr  1 14:39:54 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 18:09:54 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] A few questions
In-Reply-To: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> (Noufal Ibrahim's message of "Fri, 01
	Apr 2011 10:12:39 +0530")
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87vcyygn6t.fsf@gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 01 2011, Noufal Ibrahim wrote:

> There's some vagueness in my mind about a few things. I need them
> clarified. 
>
> 1. What are the exact dates of the conference?
>
> 2. Has the venue been confirmed?
>
> 3. Is the tutorial day on the first day?
>
> 4. Are the tutorials separately paid for? 
>         - Are the instructors given some kind of honorarium?
>         - Are the students to expect some kind of notes etc.?
>
> 5. Is there a commercial organisation associated in India that can
>    receive funds from abroad which we can use for the conference? I will
>    try to get foreign sponsors to directly fund foreign speakers and
>    things like that but if that doesn't work out, will this be possible?

Anyone? 

When I say "venue" in point 2., I mean the actual college (or other
place) where the event is planned to take place.


-- 

From navin at smriti.com  Fri Apr  1 14:52:03 2011
From: navin at smriti.com (Navin Kabra)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 18:22:03 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] A few questions
In-Reply-To: <87vcyygn6t.fsf@gmail.com>
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87vcyygn6t.fsf@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinHHnttkLXy=Jtfn1r74m=NBCJVSvmyh3JHdHR1@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 6:09 PM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com> wrote:

> > 2. Has the venue been confirmed?
>

More or less. We're expecting a final confirmation around middle of next
week.


> > 1. What are the exact dates of the conference?
>

Most likely to be Sept. 16-17-18. Will be confirmed along with the venue.

---

More details about venue selection.

These were the venues considered seriously:

Wadia College - Management is willing. Halls and classrooms are big enough.
Location is great. But all infrastructure is very old, and probably
unsuitable for Pycon. (e.g. no AC). Status: reject.

AIT (Army Institute of Technology, Alandi Road) - Management is willing.
Main auditorium is "open air" so will need some tricks (e.g. LCD screens
scattered around the auditorium), other visibility will be a problem. Other
hall and classrooms are adequate. Main problem is location - middle of
nowhere and no redeeming features to offset this. Status: reject.

SIMS (Range Hills) - This is not a tech college; so it will be a paid venue.
There is one large auditorium with a large capacity. There are 4 rooms
nearby with capacity of 60 to 100 each. Location is excellent;
infrastructure is good; classrooms and auditorium are right next to each
other, which is very good. Main problem is a lack of a second hall, which
we're hoping will have a capacity of 150 to 200 at least. Status: reject,
unless nothing else works out.

SIT (Symbiosis, Lavale) - Management is willing. Infrastructure is
excellent. Multiple large auditoriums with large capacities, very modern
facilities. Lots of classrooms. Very beautiful surroundings, which will be
even more beautiful in monsoon. Biggest problem is the location - it is 40
to 50 minutes away from the city. Status: Maybe.

Symbiosis Vishwabhavan + Symbiosis Law College - Prof. Harshad Gune of SICSR
suggested this. It appears that he is willing to become a core organizer,
and he knows all the people that matter in Symbiosis, so this will have
strong management support. Location is excellent (although parking might be
a bit of an issue). Large auditorium (Vishwabhavan) has a capacity of 700+,
and appears to have good infrastructure. Law college auditorium, which is in
the adjacent building can serve as the second auditorium. Classrooms aplenty
in Law College building. Main disadvantage is that the campus itself is
rather congested and confusing. Not very conducive to groups of people
standing around "in the corridors", and chance of people getting lost in the
maze of twisty passages, all alike.

We're most likely to go ahead with Symbiosis Vishwabhavan + Symbiosis Law
College with Prof. Gune's help. Just waiting to dot a few 'i's and cross a
few 't's before confirming.
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From lawgon at gmail.com  Sat Apr  2 02:59:09 2011
From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves)
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2011 06:29:09 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] A few questions
In-Reply-To: <87vcyygn6t.fsf@gmail.com>
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com>  <87vcyygn6t.fsf@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1301705949.2254.179.camel@localhost>

On Fri, 2011-04-01 at 18:09 +0530, Noufal Ibrahim wrote:
> > 1. What are the exact dates of the conference?

presumably 23-25th September. It seems traditional. We could at least
finalise this?
> >
...
> > 5. Is there a commercial organisation associated in India that can
> >    receive funds from abroad which we can use for the conference? I
> will
> >    try to get foreign sponsors to directly fund foreign speakers and
> >    things like that but if that doesn't work out, will this be
> possible?

I think we should steer clear of this - it would be a benami transaction
which is frowned upon.

-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
http://lawgon.livejournal.com/


From noufal at gmail.com  Sat Apr  2 03:57:19 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2011 07:27:19 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] A few questions
In-Reply-To: <1301705949.2254.179.camel@localhost> (Kenneth Gonsalves's
	message of "Sat, 02 Apr 2011 06:29:09 +0530")
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87vcyygn6t.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1301705949.2254.179.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <874o6ha000.fsf@gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 02 2011, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:

> On Fri, 2011-04-01 at 18:09 +0530, Noufal Ibrahim wrote:
>> > 1. What are the exact dates of the conference?
>
> presumably 23-25th September. It seems traditional. We could at least
> finalise this?
>> >
> ...
>> > 5. Is there a commercial organisation associated in India that can
>> >    receive funds from abroad which we can use for the conference? I
>> will
>> >    try to get foreign sponsors to directly fund foreign speakers
>> >    and things like that but if that doesn't work out, will this be
>> possible?
>
> I think we should steer clear of this - it would be a benami transaction
> which is frowned upon.

Okay. Short of asking them to directly pay for for foreign delegates, is
there nothing we can do?

-- 

From lawgon at gmail.com  Sat Apr  2 07:37:22 2011
From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves)
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2011 11:07:22 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] A few questions
In-Reply-To: <874o6ha000.fsf@gmail.com>
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87vcyygn6t.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1301705949.2254.179.camel@localhost>  <874o6ha000.fsf@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1301722642.2254.189.camel@localhost>

On Sat, 2011-04-02 at 07:27 +0530, Noufal Ibrahim wrote:
> > I think we should steer clear of this - it would be a benami
> transaction
> > which is frowned upon.
> 
> Okay. Short of asking them to directly pay for for foreign delegates,
> is
> there nothing we can do? 

that is the only option
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
http://lawgon.livejournal.com/


From noufal at gmail.com  Sat Apr  2 08:09:08 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2011 11:39:08 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] A few questions
In-Reply-To: <1301722642.2254.189.camel@localhost> (Kenneth Gonsalves's
	message of "Sat, 02 Apr 2011 11:07:22 +0530")
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87vcyygn6t.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1301705949.2254.179.camel@localhost> <874o6ha000.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1301722642.2254.189.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <87r59li3qz.fsf@gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 02 2011, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:

> On Sat, 2011-04-02 at 07:27 +0530, Noufal Ibrahim wrote:
>> > I think we should steer clear of this - it would be a benami
>> transaction
>> > which is frowned upon.
>> 
>> Okay. Short of asking them to directly pay for for foreign delegates,
>> is
>> there nothing we can do? 
>
> that is the only option

I have a sponsor who's interested in being a silver sponsor. The amount
is not enough to cover travel for a foreign delegate so it'll have to be
piecemeal. This works but there are issues. If some thing crops up with
the sponsor and they can't (or don't pay) the delegate, it really messes
our relationship with the foreign delegate.

Isn't there anything else we can do? 

-- 

From lawgon at gmail.com  Sat Apr  2 10:51:56 2011
From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves)
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2011 14:21:56 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] A few questions
In-Reply-To: <87r59li3qz.fsf@gmail.com>
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87vcyygn6t.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1301705949.2254.179.camel@localhost> <874o6ha000.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1301722642.2254.189.camel@localhost>  <87r59li3qz.fsf@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1301734316.2254.191.camel@localhost>

On Sat, 2011-04-02 at 11:39 +0530, Noufal Ibrahim wrote:
> > that is the only option
> 
> I have a sponsor who's interested in being a silver sponsor. The
> amount
> is not enough to cover travel for a foreign delegate so it'll have to
> be
> piecemeal. This works but there are issues. If some thing crops up
> with
> the sponsor and they can't (or don't pay) the delegate, it really
> messes
> our relationship with the foreign delegate.
> 
> Isn't there anything else we can do? 

we can guarantee payment - that is all we can do.
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
http://lawgon.livejournal.com/


From anil.kumar.848 at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 16:34:55 2011
From: anil.kumar.848 at gmail.com (anil kumar)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 20:04:55 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] [Invite for Speakers] Mukthi 11.04 - FOSS conference at
	MSRIT
Message-ID: <BANLkTim=GLAVmJEMEKQKvsGhN17Nj+Kz3w@mail.gmail.com>

Hello ,
                   I am Anil a part of  Vrglinug (FOSS group) at MSRIT ,
After the success of PYCON , 2010. We are organizing a FOSS conference on
the 23rd and 24th of April . it would be nice if we had people from the
python community to come in as speakers.

website : http://mukthi.vrglinug.org/

please drop me a mail for any details.

Thank you.

Regards,
Anil Kumar M
Vrglinug, MSRIT
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From noufal at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 20:46:18 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2011 00:16:18 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] [Invite for Speakers] Mukthi 11.04 - FOSS conference
	at MSRIT
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTim=GLAVmJEMEKQKvsGhN17Nj+Kz3w@mail.gmail.com> (anil
	kumar's message of "Wed, 6 Apr 2011 20:04:55 +0530")
References: <BANLkTim=GLAVmJEMEKQKvsGhN17Nj+Kz3w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87vcyrqkud.fsf@gmail.com>


I think you should send this email to the Bangalore Python user group
list rather than the PyCon one. 

On Wed, Apr 06 2011, anil kumar wrote:

> Hello ,
>                    I am Anil a part of  Vrglinug (FOSS group) at MSRIT ,
> After the success of PYCON , 2010. We are organizing a FOSS conference on
> the 23rd and 24th of April . it would be nice if we had people from the
> python community to come in as speakers.
>
> website : http://mukthi.vrglinug.org/
>
> please drop me a mail for any details.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Regards,
> Anil Kumar M
> Vrglinug, MSRIT
> _______________________________________________
> Inpycon mailing list
> Inpycon at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/inpycon

-- 

From noufal at gmail.com  Thu Apr  7 12:56:11 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2011 16:26:11 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] A few questions
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinHHnttkLXy=Jtfn1r74m=NBCJVSvmyh3JHdHR1@mail.gmail.com>
	(Navin Kabra's message of "Fri, 1 Apr 2011 18:22:03 +0530")
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87vcyygn6t.fsf@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinHHnttkLXy=Jtfn1r74m=NBCJVSvmyh3JHdHR1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87k4f6qqic.fsf@gmail.com>


Do you have any confirmations?

On Fri, Apr 01 2011, Navin Kabra wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 6:09 PM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> > 2. Has the venue been confirmed?
>>
>
> More or less. We're expecting a final confirmation around middle of next
> week.
>
>
>> > 1. What are the exact dates of the conference?
>>
>
> Most likely to be Sept. 16-17-18. Will be confirmed along with the venue.
>
> ---
>
> More details about venue selection.
>
> These were the venues considered seriously:
>
> Wadia College - Management is willing. Halls and classrooms are big enough.
> Location is great. But all infrastructure is very old, and probably
> unsuitable for Pycon. (e.g. no AC). Status: reject.
>
> AIT (Army Institute of Technology, Alandi Road) - Management is willing.
> Main auditorium is "open air" so will need some tricks (e.g. LCD screens
> scattered around the auditorium), other visibility will be a problem. Other
> hall and classrooms are adequate. Main problem is location - middle of
> nowhere and no redeeming features to offset this. Status: reject.
>
> SIMS (Range Hills) - This is not a tech college; so it will be a paid venue.
> There is one large auditorium with a large capacity. There are 4 rooms
> nearby with capacity of 60 to 100 each. Location is excellent;
> infrastructure is good; classrooms and auditorium are right next to each
> other, which is very good. Main problem is a lack of a second hall, which
> we're hoping will have a capacity of 150 to 200 at least. Status: reject,
> unless nothing else works out.
>
> SIT (Symbiosis, Lavale) - Management is willing. Infrastructure is
> excellent. Multiple large auditoriums with large capacities, very modern
> facilities. Lots of classrooms. Very beautiful surroundings, which will be
> even more beautiful in monsoon. Biggest problem is the location - it is 40
> to 50 minutes away from the city. Status: Maybe.
>
> Symbiosis Vishwabhavan + Symbiosis Law College - Prof. Harshad Gune of SICSR
> suggested this. It appears that he is willing to become a core organizer,
> and he knows all the people that matter in Symbiosis, so this will have
> strong management support. Location is excellent (although parking might be
> a bit of an issue). Large auditorium (Vishwabhavan) has a capacity of 700+,
> and appears to have good infrastructure. Law college auditorium, which is in
> the adjacent building can serve as the second auditorium. Classrooms aplenty
> in Law College building. Main disadvantage is that the campus itself is
> rather congested and confusing. Not very conducive to groups of people
> standing around "in the corridors", and chance of people getting lost in the
> maze of twisty passages, all alike.
>
> We're most likely to go ahead with Symbiosis Vishwabhavan + Symbiosis Law
> College with Prof. Gune's help. Just waiting to dot a few 'i's and cross a
> few 't's before confirming.

-- 

From noufal at gmail.com  Thu Apr  7 12:58:43 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2011 16:28:43 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] A few questions
In-Reply-To: <1301734316.2254.191.camel@localhost> (Kenneth Gonsalves's
	message of "Sat, 02 Apr 2011 14:21:56 +0530")
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87vcyygn6t.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1301705949.2254.179.camel@localhost> <874o6ha000.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1301722642.2254.189.camel@localhost> <87r59li3qz.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1301734316.2254.191.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <87fwpuqqe4.fsf@gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 02 2011, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:

> On Sat, 2011-04-02 at 11:39 +0530, Noufal Ibrahim wrote:
>> > that is the only option
>> 
>> I have a sponsor who's interested in being a silver sponsor. The
>> amount
>> is not enough to cover travel for a foreign delegate so it'll have to
>> be
>> piecemeal. This works but there are issues. If some thing crops up
>> with
>> the sponsor and they can't (or don't pay) the delegate, it really
>> messes
>> our relationship with the foreign delegate.
>> 
>> Isn't there anything else we can do? 
>
> we can guarantee payment - that is all we can do.

What if we partner with a commercial organisation that *can* receive
funds from abroad? We'll give them some air time and formally associate
them with the conference in exchange for receiving the funds from abroad
and making it available to us. There will be some taxes paid but it will
give us liquid cash and we can use it as we please.

I spoke to hasgeek (Kiran) about such a possibility and he's
enthusiastic about it. It gives HasGeek good publicity and gives us the
funds from abroad without hassles. Seems like a fair deal to me. 

I don't like the idea of putting a sponsor directly in connection with a
foreign delegate. Things go out of our hands then and it could lead to
bad blood. 



-- 

From anandology at gmail.com  Thu Apr  7 13:09:36 2011
From: anandology at gmail.com (Anand Chitipothu)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 16:39:36 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] A few questions
In-Reply-To: <87fwpuqqe4.fsf@gmail.com>
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87vcyygn6t.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1301705949.2254.179.camel@localhost> <874o6ha000.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1301722642.2254.189.camel@localhost> <87r59li3qz.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1301734316.2254.191.camel@localhost> <87fwpuqqe4.fsf@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikmpBHL8Yp4WyU1hm-QV+de5zzjEA@mail.gmail.com>

> What if we partner with a commercial organisation that *can* receive
> funds from abroad? We'll give them some air time and formally associate
> them with the conference in exchange for receiving the funds from abroad
> and making it available to us. There will be some taxes paid but it will
> give us liquid cash and we can use it as we please.
>
> I spoke to hasgeek (Kiran) about such a possibility and he's
> enthusiastic about it. It gives HasGeek good publicity and gives us the
> funds from abroad without hassles. Seems like a fair deal to me.
>
> [...]

+1 for associating with HasGeek.

Anand

From sree at mahiti.org  Thu Apr  7 13:19:20 2011
From: sree at mahiti.org (Sreekanth S Rameshaiah)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 16:49:20 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] A few questions
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikmpBHL8Yp4WyU1hm-QV+de5zzjEA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87vcyygn6t.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1301705949.2254.179.camel@localhost> <874o6ha000.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1301722642.2254.189.camel@localhost> <87r59li3qz.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1301734316.2254.191.camel@localhost> <87fwpuqqe4.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikmpBHL8Yp4WyU1hm-QV+de5zzjEA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinLGjqYjmqpK9GfNU6p5cP4XrQ1ZA@mail.gmail.com>

On 7 April 2011 16:39, Anand Chitipothu <anandology at gmail.com> wrote:

> > What if we partner with a commercial organisation that *can* receive
> > funds from abroad? We'll give them some air time and formally associate
> > them with the conference in exchange for receiving the funds from abroad
> > and making it available to us. There will be some taxes paid but it will
> > give us liquid cash and we can use it as we please.
> >
> > I spoke to hasgeek (Kiran) about such a possibility and he's
> > enthusiastic about it. It gives HasGeek good publicity and gives us the
> > funds from abroad without hassles. Seems like a fair deal to me.
>
> Its inappropriate to decide this based on +1/-1. This is a statutory issue.
We should go by advocate/ auditor's opinion.
I second Kenneth's advise.

Please remember actions taken today will only be reviewed in 3 years time by
assessment authorities. 3 years down the line the society will have
different board. The board at that point will have to answer queries. Its
better to keep things simple and clean for future boards to manage.

- sree
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From lawgon at gmail.com  Thu Apr  7 13:19:31 2011
From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves)
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2011 16:49:31 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] A few questions
In-Reply-To: <87fwpuqqe4.fsf@gmail.com>
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87vcyygn6t.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1301705949.2254.179.camel@localhost> <874o6ha000.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1301722642.2254.189.camel@localhost> <87r59li3qz.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1301734316.2254.191.camel@localhost>  <87fwpuqqe4.fsf@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1302175171.2254.560.camel@localhost>

On Thu, 2011-04-07 at 16:28 +0530, Noufal Ibrahim wrote:
> > we can guarantee payment - that is all we can do.
> 
> What if we partner with a commercial organisation that *can* receive
> funds from abroad? We'll give them some air time and formally
> associate
> them with the conference in exchange for receiving the funds from
> abroad
> and making it available to us. There will be some taxes paid but it
> will
> give us liquid cash and we can use it as we please.
> 
> I spoke to hasgeek (Kiran) about such a possibility and he's
> enthusiastic about it. It gives HasGeek good publicity and gives us
> the
> funds from abroad without hassles. Seems like a fair deal to me. 
> 
> I don't like the idea of putting a sponsor directly in connection with
> a
> foreign delegate. Things go out of our hands then and it could lead to
> bad blood. 

please give details of the terms of contract - we can then run it past
the CA and decide.
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
http://lawgon.livejournal.com/


From noufal at gmail.com  Thu Apr  7 13:54:14 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2011 17:24:14 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] A few questions
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinLGjqYjmqpK9GfNU6p5cP4XrQ1ZA@mail.gmail.com> (Sreekanth
	S. Rameshaiah's message of "Thu, 7 Apr 2011 16:49:20 +0530")
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87vcyygn6t.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1301705949.2254.179.camel@localhost> <874o6ha000.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1301722642.2254.189.camel@localhost> <87r59li3qz.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1301734316.2254.191.camel@localhost> <87fwpuqqe4.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikmpBHL8Yp4WyU1hm-QV+de5zzjEA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinLGjqYjmqpK9GfNU6p5cP4XrQ1ZA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87bp0iqntl.fsf@gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 07 2011, Sreekanth S Rameshaiah wrote:

> On 7 April 2011 16:39, Anand Chitipothu <anandology at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> > What if we partner with a commercial organisation that *can* receive
>> > funds from abroad? We'll give them some air time and formally associate
>> > them with the conference in exchange for receiving the funds from abroad
>> > and making it available to us. There will be some taxes paid but it will
>> > give us liquid cash and we can use it as we please.
>> >
>> > I spoke to hasgeek (Kiran) about such a possibility and he's
>> > enthusiastic about it. It gives HasGeek good publicity and gives us the
>> > funds from abroad without hassles. Seems like a fair deal to me.
>>
>> Its inappropriate to decide this based on +1/-1. This is a statutory issue.
> We should go by advocate/ auditor's opinion.
> I second Kenneth's advise.
>
> Please remember actions taken today will only be reviewed in 3 years time by
> assessment authorities. 3 years down the line the society will have
> different board. The board at that point will have to answer queries. Its
> better to keep things simple and clean for future boards to manage.

[...]

I totally agree. I'm just looking at possibilities. 

This sounds (to my uninformed self) similar to what we did with
Janastu but on an international level. 

-- 

From lawgon at gmail.com  Thu Apr  7 14:01:25 2011
From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves)
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2011 17:31:25 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] A few questions
In-Reply-To: <87bp0iqntl.fsf@gmail.com>
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87vcyygn6t.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1301705949.2254.179.camel@localhost> <874o6ha000.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1301722642.2254.189.camel@localhost> <87r59li3qz.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1301734316.2254.191.camel@localhost> <87fwpuqqe4.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikmpBHL8Yp4WyU1hm-QV+de5zzjEA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinLGjqYjmqpK9GfNU6p5cP4XrQ1ZA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87bp0iqntl.fsf@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1302177685.2254.562.camel@localhost>

On Thu, 2011-04-07 at 17:24 +0530, Noufal Ibrahim wrote:
> > Please remember actions taken today will only be reviewed in 3 years
> time by
> > assessment authorities. 3 years down the line the society will have
> > different board. The board at that point will have to answer
> queries. Its
> > better to keep things simple and clean for future boards to manage.
> 
> [...]
> 
> I totally agree. I'm just looking at possibilities. 
> 
> This sounds (to my uninformed self) similar to what we did with
> Janastu but on an international level. 
> 
> 

fooling with FCRA is a totally different kettle of fish.
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
http://lawgon.livejournal.com/


From navin.kabra at gmail.com  Mon Apr 11 09:53:35 2011
From: navin.kabra at gmail.com (Navin Kabra)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 13:23:35 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Confirming dates and venue for Inpycon
Message-ID: <BANLkTimyXb1e+3pZfMjdfufDcC2QQGiYRA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,

This is just to inform everyone that we've finalized the dates of Pycon (16,
17, 18 September) and the venue (Symbiosis Vishwabhavan + Symbiosis Law
College). The CFP can now go out...

More details:

16th Sept is a Friday, and we'll have some tutorials on that day.
17/18 = Sat/Sun will be the main conference.

A local tech college, SICSR (Symbiosis Institute for Computer Studies and
Research) will be helping us organize this conference. The contact person
there will be Prof. Harshad Gune. (SICSR and Prof. Gune also organize
Gnunify (http://gnunify.in), an annual, international, open source
conference in Pune.)

However, SICSR itself does not have the facilities to host the conference,
so they will be requesting the use of the facilities of another Symbiosis
institute for this conference. Symbiosis Vishwabhavan, on Senapati Bapat
Road, has a large auditorium with a capacity of 700+ and that will be used
as the main hall. Symbiosis Law College, which is the adjacent building, has
another large hall which can be used for the second track. Law college has
enough classrooms which can be used for other tracks, including BOFs,
tutorials...
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From noufal at gmail.com  Mon Apr 11 10:24:06 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 13:54:06 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Confirming dates and venue for Inpycon
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimyXb1e+3pZfMjdfufDcC2QQGiYRA@mail.gmail.com> (Navin
	Kabra's message of "Mon, 11 Apr 2011 13:23:35 +0530")
References: <BANLkTimyXb1e+3pZfMjdfufDcC2QQGiYRA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87wrj1gpqx.fsf@gmail.com>


This is good news. A couple of questions. 

1. Are the tutorials paid for separately? Do the instructors receive an
   honorarium?

2. We need a clear decision and document on the number of tracks and the
   rooms allocated to them before we start. 

3. The rooms should be somewhat nearby (and preferably visible from each
   other). We had a nightmare last year with people not knowing where the
   extra hall was at MSRIT.

Thanks for your work Navin.

On Mon, Apr 11 2011, Navin Kabra wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> This is just to inform everyone that we've finalized the dates of Pycon (16,
> 17, 18 September) and the venue (Symbiosis Vishwabhavan + Symbiosis Law
> College). The CFP can now go out...
>
> More details:
>
> 16th Sept is a Friday, and we'll have some tutorials on that day.
> 17/18 = Sat/Sun will be the main conference.
>
> A local tech college, SICSR (Symbiosis Institute for Computer Studies and
> Research) will be helping us organize this conference. The contact person
> there will be Prof. Harshad Gune. (SICSR and Prof. Gune also organize
> Gnunify (http://gnunify.in), an annual, international, open source
> conference in Pune.)
>
> However, SICSR itself does not have the facilities to host the conference,
> so they will be requesting the use of the facilities of another Symbiosis
> institute for this conference. Symbiosis Vishwabhavan, on Senapati Bapat
> Road, has a large auditorium with a capacity of 700+ and that will be used
> as the main hall. Symbiosis Law College, which is the adjacent building, has
> another large hall which can be used for the second track. Law college has
> enough classrooms which can be used for other tracks, including BOFs,
> tutorials...
> _______________________________________________
> Inpycon mailing list
> Inpycon at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/inpycon

-- 

From navin at smriti.com  Mon Apr 11 10:41:32 2011
From: navin at smriti.com (Navin Kabra)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 14:11:32 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Confirming dates and venue for Inpycon
In-Reply-To: <87wrj1gpqx.fsf@gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimyXb1e+3pZfMjdfufDcC2QQGiYRA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87wrj1gpqx.fsf@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikiWtx7-4RvfEd3u9ZiDVCsmksDkg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 1:54 PM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com> wrote:

> 2. We need a clear decision and document on the number of tracks and the
>   rooms allocated to them before we start.
>

Yes, we'll start work on that. This is something that the institute also
wants us to provide.


> 3. The rooms should be somewhat nearby (and preferably visible from each
>   other). We had a nightmare last year with people not knowing where the
>   extra hall was at MSRIT.
>

The rooms and halls are near each other, in two buildings that are next to
each other. However, the corridors of the two buildings are a little
confusing. We plan on tackling this with copious amounts of detailed
signboards and directions and maps.
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From noufal at gmail.com  Mon Apr 11 10:45:59 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 14:15:59 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Confirming dates and venue for Inpycon
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikiWtx7-4RvfEd3u9ZiDVCsmksDkg@mail.gmail.com> (Navin
	Kabra's message of "Mon, 11 Apr 2011 14:11:32 +0530")
References: <BANLkTimyXb1e+3pZfMjdfufDcC2QQGiYRA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87wrj1gpqx.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikiWtx7-4RvfEd3u9ZiDVCsmksDkg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87sjtpgoqg.fsf@gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 11 2011, Navin Kabra wrote:


[...]

> The rooms and halls are near each other, in two buildings that are
> next to each other. However, the corridors of the two buildings are a
> little confusing. We plan on tackling this with copious amounts of
> detailed signboards and directions and maps.

I think it's worthwhile to see if something *really* nearby can be
arranged. Maps, signboards and volunteers are duct tape solutions and
should be the last option. 

-- 

From noufal at gmail.com  Mon Apr 11 10:48:20 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 14:18:20 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Tutorials (was:  A few questions)
In-Reply-To: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> (Noufal Ibrahim's message of "Fri, 01
	Apr 2011 10:12:39 +0530")
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87fwppgomj.fsf@gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 01 2011, Noufal Ibrahim wrote:


[...]

> 4. Are the tutorials separately paid for? 
>         - Are the instructors given some kind of honorarium?
>         - Are the students to expect some kind of notes etc.?

[...]

If this is not yet decided, we need to discuss and decide it right
away. We've never conducted tutorials at PyCon before and it would be
best to discuss this before going ahead. 

Here are the important points. 
1. Length.
2. Payment by students. 
3. Payment to instructors.
4. Notes/materials.
5. Recording and public distribution (might be different if it's
   separately paid for).



-- 

From lawgon at gmail.com  Mon Apr 11 11:00:34 2011
From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 14:30:34 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Confirming dates and venue for Inpycon
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikiWtx7-4RvfEd3u9ZiDVCsmksDkg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimyXb1e+3pZfMjdfufDcC2QQGiYRA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87wrj1gpqx.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikiWtx7-4RvfEd3u9ZiDVCsmksDkg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1302512434.2254.660.camel@localhost>

On Mon, 2011-04-11 at 14:11 +0530, Navin Kabra wrote:
> > 3. The rooms should be somewhat nearby (and preferably visible from
> each
> >   other). We had a nightmare last year with people not knowing where
> the
> >   extra hall was at MSRIT.
> >
> 
> The rooms and halls are near each other, in two buildings that are
> next to
> each other. However, the corridors of the two buildings are a little
> confusing. We plan on tackling this with copious amounts of detailed
> signboards and directions and maps. 

cannot be more confusing than last year
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
http://lawgon.livejournal.com/


From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com  Mon Apr 11 11:04:25 2011
From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 14:34:25 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Confirming dates and venue for Inpycon
In-Reply-To: <87sjtpgoqg.fsf@gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimyXb1e+3pZfMjdfufDcC2QQGiYRA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87wrj1gpqx.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikiWtx7-4RvfEd3u9ZiDVCsmksDkg@mail.gmail.com>
	<87sjtpgoqg.fsf@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=bCsdzU=j-MDmXNHvKfBCmzu-Vyw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 2:15 PM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 11 2011, Navin Kabra wrote:
>
>
> [...]
>
> > The rooms and halls are near each other, in two buildings that are
> > next to each other. However, the corridors of the two buildings are a
> > little confusing. We plan on tackling this with copious amounts of
> > detailed signboards and directions and maps.
>
> I think it's worthwhile to see if something *really* nearby can be
> arranged. Maps, signboards and volunteers are duct tape solutions and
> should be the last option.
>

The rooms are in adjacent buildings. Compared to pycon 2010 the walk
distance is less than half the amount we had between Halls 1/2 and Hall 3.
Its just that its a little confusing - thats why lot of sign boards will be
necessary.

>
> --
> _______________________________________________
> Inpycon mailing list
> Inpycon at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/inpycon
>



-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://blog.dhananjaynene.com twitter: @dnene
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From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com  Mon Apr 11 11:06:10 2011
From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 14:36:10 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Confirming dates and venue for Inpycon
In-Reply-To: <1302512434.2254.660.camel@localhost>
References: <BANLkTimyXb1e+3pZfMjdfufDcC2QQGiYRA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87wrj1gpqx.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikiWtx7-4RvfEd3u9ZiDVCsmksDkg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1302512434.2254.660.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikZH3OKA+pqR0q_W4qd-WEPeXZodA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 2:30 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves <lawgon at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 2011-04-11 at 14:11 +0530, Navin Kabra wrote:
> > > 3. The rooms should be somewhat nearby (and preferably visible from
> > each
> > >   other). We had a nightmare last year with people not knowing where
> > the
> > >   extra hall was at MSRIT.
> > >
> >
> > The rooms and halls are near each other, in two buildings that are
> > next to
> > each other. However, the corridors of the two buildings are a little
> > confusing. We plan on tackling this with copious amounts of detailed
> > signboards and directions and maps.
>
> cannot be more confusing than last year
>

You gotta see it to believe it :) :) On the whole not an issue to be worried
about much given adequate signboards.


> --
> regards
> Kenneth Gonsalves
> http://lawgon.livejournal.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Inpycon mailing list
> Inpycon at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/inpycon
>



-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://blog.dhananjaynene.com twitter: @dnene
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From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com  Mon Apr 11 11:06:45 2011
From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 14:36:45 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Tutorials (was: A few questions)
In-Reply-To: <87fwppgomj.fsf@gmail.com>
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com>
	<87fwppgomj.fsf@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=YGV=900toaq45WwBMWUQnzfTknA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 01 2011, Noufal Ibrahim wrote:
>
>
> [...]
>
> > 4. Are the tutorials separately paid for?
> >         - Are the instructors given some kind of honorarium?
> >         - Are the students to expect some kind of notes etc.?
>
> [...]
>
> If this is not yet decided, we need to discuss and decide it right
> away. We've never conducted tutorials at PyCon before and it would be
> best to discuss this before going ahead.
>
> Here are the important points.
> 1. Length.
> 2. Payment by students.
> 3. Payment to instructors.
> 4. Notes/materials.
> 5. Recording and public distribution (might be different if it's
>   separately paid for).
>

Any suggestions?

>
>
>
> --
> _______________________________________________
> Inpycon mailing list
> Inpycon at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/inpycon
>



-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://blog.dhananjaynene.com twitter: @dnene
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From noufal at gmail.com  Mon Apr 11 11:11:42 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 14:41:42 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Confirming dates and venue for Inpycon
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=bCsdzU=j-MDmXNHvKfBCmzu-Vyw@mail.gmail.com> (Dhananjay
	Nene's message of "Mon, 11 Apr 2011 14:34:25 +0530")
References: <BANLkTimyXb1e+3pZfMjdfufDcC2QQGiYRA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87wrj1gpqx.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikiWtx7-4RvfEd3u9ZiDVCsmksDkg@mail.gmail.com>
	<87sjtpgoqg.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=bCsdzU=j-MDmXNHvKfBCmzu-Vyw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87bp0dgnjl.fsf@gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 11 2011, Dhananjay Nene wrote:

[...]

> The rooms are in adjacent buildings. Compared to pycon 2010 the walk
> distance is less than half the amount we had between Halls 1/2 and Hall 3.
> Its just that its a little confusing - thats why lot of sign boards will be
> necessary.
>

[...]

Okay. I'm basing my biases on last years experience. You've seen the
place so you're in a better position to take the call.
-- 

From noufal at gmail.com  Mon Apr 11 11:15:51 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 14:45:51 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Tutorials
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=YGV=900toaq45WwBMWUQnzfTknA@mail.gmail.com> (Dhananjay
	Nene's message of "Mon, 11 Apr 2011 14:36:45 +0530")
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87fwppgomj.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=YGV=900toaq45WwBMWUQnzfTknA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87wrj1f8s8.fsf@gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 11 2011, Dhananjay Nene wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Apr 01 2011, Noufal Ibrahim wrote:
>>
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> > 4. Are the tutorials separately paid for?
>> >         - Are the instructors given some kind of honorarium?
>> >         - Are the students to expect some kind of notes etc.?
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> If this is not yet decided, we need to discuss and decide it right
>> away. We've never conducted tutorials at PyCon before and it would be
>> best to discuss this before going ahead.
>>
>> Here are the important points.
>> 1. Length.
>> 2. Payment by students.
>> 3. Payment to instructors.
>> 4. Notes/materials.
>> 5. Recording and public distribution (might be different if it's
>>   separately paid for).
>>
>
> Any suggestions?

1. Two or three hours per tutorial. Around 30 students max.

2 and 3 I'm not sure. The US and APAC PyCons have separate payments for
this. It's a lot of effort to make a good tutorial so there should be
*some* incentive. How about 500 INR per tutorial and first come first
serve. The trainer can be paid 50% of the total amount and the IPSS can
keep the rest. Tutorials with less than 10 participants will be
cancelled.


4. If it's paid for, then this is must. Otherwise, I guess not. Maybe
   left to the trainers? 

5. If the trainers are commercially providing these trainings outside
   PyCon, they might not want it to be recorded and put online. That was
   my concern (and the reason why the US ones were not recorded this
   year).






[...]


-- 

From lawgon at gmail.com  Mon Apr 11 11:27:39 2011
From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 14:57:39 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Tutorials
In-Reply-To: <87wrj1f8s8.fsf@gmail.com>
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87fwppgomj.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=YGV=900toaq45WwBMWUQnzfTknA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87wrj1f8s8.fsf@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1302514059.2254.662.camel@localhost>

On Mon, 2011-04-11 at 14:45 +0530, Noufal Ibrahim wrote:
> > Any suggestions?
> 
> 1. Two or three hours per tutorial. Around 30 students max.
> 
> 2 and 3 I'm not sure. The US and APAC PyCons have separate payments
> for
> this. It's a lot of effort to make a good tutorial so there should be
> *some* incentive. How about 500 INR per tutorial and first come first
> serve. The trainer can be paid 50% of the total amount and the IPSS
> can
> keep the rest. Tutorials with less than 10 participants will be
> cancelled. 

before this make sure the colleges agree - many colleges are dead
against *any* commercial activities.
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
http://lawgon.livejournal.com/


From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com  Mon Apr 11 11:43:13 2011
From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 15:13:13 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Tutorials
In-Reply-To: <87wrj1f8s8.fsf@gmail.com>
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87fwppgomj.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=YGV=900toaq45WwBMWUQnzfTknA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87wrj1f8s8.fsf@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTiksLxp1HM3Nao99wX=h6Ndf67LQFQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 2:45 PM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Apr 11 2011, Dhananjay Nene wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, Apr 01 2011, Noufal Ibrahim wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> [...]
> >>
> >> > 4. Are the tutorials separately paid for?
> >> > ? ? ? ? - Are the instructors given some kind of honorarium?
> >> > ? ? ? ? - Are the students to expect some kind of notes etc.?
> >>
> >> [...]
> >>
> >> If this is not yet decided, we need to discuss and decide it right
> >> away. We've never conducted tutorials at PyCon before and it would be
> >> best to discuss this before going ahead.
> >>
> >> Here are the important points.
> >> 1. Length.
> >> 2. Payment by students.
> >> 3. Payment to instructors.
> >> 4. Notes/materials.
> >> 5. Recording and public distribution (might be different if it's
> >> ? separately paid for).
> >>
> >
> > Any suggestions?
>
> 1. Two or three hours per tutorial. Around 30 students max.
>
> 2 and 3 I'm not sure. The US and APAC PyCons have separate payments for
> this. It's a lot of effort to make a good tutorial so there should be
> *some* incentive. How about 500 INR per tutorial and first come first
> serve. The trainer can be paid 50% of the total amount and the IPSS can
> keep the rest. Tutorials with less than 10 participants will be
> cancelled.

Let me work on finding some folks to do it in public (not commercial
interest). At least one more apart from myself are interested here. If
there are more on this list who would be keen on this - raise your
hands Preferable if we can keep it non commercial.
>
>
> 4. If it's paid for, then this is must. Otherwise, I guess not. Maybe
> ? left to the trainers?
>
> 5. If the trainers are commercially providing these trainings outside
> ? PyCon, they might not want it to be recorded and put online. That was
> ? my concern (and the reason why the US ones were not recorded this
> ? year).

Hopefully if we can find enough volunteers, this should no longer be a worrry.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://blog.dhananjaynene.com twitter: @dnene

From noufal at gmail.com  Mon Apr 11 11:46:19 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 15:16:19 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Tutorials
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTiksLxp1HM3Nao99wX=h6Ndf67LQFQ@mail.gmail.com> (Dhananjay
	Nene's message of "Mon, 11 Apr 2011 15:13:13 +0530")
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87fwppgomj.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=YGV=900toaq45WwBMWUQnzfTknA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87wrj1f8s8.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiksLxp1HM3Nao99wX=h6Ndf67LQFQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87sjtpf7dg.fsf@gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 11 2011, Dhananjay Nene wrote:


[...]


> Let me work on finding some folks to do it in public (not commercial
> interest). At least one more apart from myself are interested here. If
> there are more on this list who would be keen on this - raise your
> hands Preferable if we can keep it non commercial.

[...]

Usually (thought not always), tutorials are as good as what you pay
for. It's a good idea to put a price, restrict the number of students
and provide materials to them. That's my opinion but I see your point. 


-- 

From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com  Mon Apr 11 11:49:07 2011
From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 15:19:07 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Tutorials
In-Reply-To: <87sjtpf7dg.fsf@gmail.com>
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87fwppgomj.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=YGV=900toaq45WwBMWUQnzfTknA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87wrj1f8s8.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiksLxp1HM3Nao99wX=h6Ndf67LQFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<87sjtpf7dg.fsf@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimnj1-8MnmLE1Ud9ZJzgs1bvtEiJA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 11 2011, Dhananjay Nene wrote:
>
>
> [...]
>
>
>> Let me work on finding some folks to do it in public (not commercial
>> interest). At least one more apart from myself are interested here. If
>> there are more on this list who would be keen on this - raise your
>> hands Preferable if we can keep it non commercial.
>
> [...]
>
> Usually (thought not always), tutorials are as good as what you pay
> for. It's a good idea to put a price, restrict the number of students
> and provide materials to them. That's my opinion but I see your point.
>
We could charge the students, but have some senior pythonistas conduct
the courses just as a way to contribute back. Probably helps meet both
objectives. Plus the videos / course content can then be easily open
sourced.
>
> --
>



-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://blog.dhananjaynene.com twitter: @dnene

From noufal at gmail.com  Mon Apr 11 12:06:22 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 15:36:22 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Tutorials
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimnj1-8MnmLE1Ud9ZJzgs1bvtEiJA@mail.gmail.com> (Dhananjay
	Nene's message of "Mon, 11 Apr 2011 15:19:07 +0530")
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87fwppgomj.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=YGV=900toaq45WwBMWUQnzfTknA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87wrj1f8s8.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiksLxp1HM3Nao99wX=h6Ndf67LQFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<87sjtpf7dg.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimnj1-8MnmLE1Ud9ZJzgs1bvtEiJA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87oc4df6g1.fsf@gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 11 2011, Dhananjay Nene wrote:

[...]

> We could charge the students, but have some senior pythonistas conduct
> the courses just as a way to contribute back. Probably helps meet both
> objectives. Plus the videos / course content can then be easily open
> sourced.

[...]

That sounds like a good idea to me.
-- 

From abpillai at gmail.com  Mon Apr 18 11:00:13 2011
From: abpillai at gmail.com (Anand Balachandran Pillai)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 14:30:13 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Transitioning/Planning of CFP task
Message-ID: <BANLkTimovCB+KGUJGcf4MOK6jdjnh-8vQA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
       Due to work pressure, I won't be able to handle the CFP
task for Pycon 2011. Already informed this to the stakeholders,
this is for the list.

As of now the only artifact which exists for this task is the
wiki page

http://wiki.python.org/moin/PyConIndia2011/CFP

This is right now a simple copy of the Pycon India 2010 wiki page,
nothing more, nothing less.

These are the things to do according to me, in order.

1. Decide on the dates of CFP, talks acceptance etc.
2. Decide on talk lengths, tutorial formats. The former
seems to have an agreement (all 45 min talks, no 30 min
ones), but the latter still needs work.
3. Create a CFP request form on the pycon india 2011
site - you can reuse last year's template but since you
are going to call for tutorial + talks in one CFP, this
will need some work.
4. Once everything is finalized and tested, call for CFP -
Announce in the site blog, twitter, Pycon blog (me or Senthil
can do this), any other outlet etc.

I would estimate that 3-4 people need to work on this, two
working on the CFP format and 1-2 working on the site itself.
I can help out with any of the small sub-tasks such as reviewing
the proposal, testing the CFP etc.

My suggestion is to start work on this right now to publish the CFP
no later than May 1st week. Give the CFP 2 months to end on
July last week or Aug 1st week, so that reviewers get at least one
month to do the reviews.

Thanks,

-- 
--Anand
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From anandology at gmail.com  Mon Apr 18 11:08:20 2011
From: anandology at gmail.com (Anand Chitipothu)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 14:38:20 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Transitioning/Planning of CFP task
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimovCB+KGUJGcf4MOK6jdjnh-8vQA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimovCB+KGUJGcf4MOK6jdjnh-8vQA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinJ3KeSfTXFXMXbBU7cN3ZHhunHYg@mail.gmail.com>

2011/4/18 Anand Balachandran Pillai <abpillai at gmail.com>:
> Hi,
> ?????? Due to work pressure, I won't be able to handle the CFP
> task for Pycon 2011. Already informed this to the stakeholders,
> this is for the list.
>
> As of now the only artifact which exists for this task is the
> wiki page
>
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/PyConIndia2011/CFP
>
> This is right now a simple copy of the Pycon India 2010 wiki page,
> nothing more, nothing less.
>
> These are the things to do according to me, in order.
>
> 1. Decide on the dates of CFP, talks acceptance etc.
> 2. Decide on talk lengths, tutorial formats. The former
> seems to have an agreement (all 45 min talks, no 30 min
> ones), but the latter still needs work.
> 3. Create a CFP request form on the pycon india 2011
> site - you can reuse last year's template but since you
> are going to call for tutorial + talks in one CFP, this
> will need some work.
> 4. Once everything is finalized and tested, call for CFP -
> Announce in the site blog, twitter, Pycon blog (me or Senthil
> can do this), any other outlet etc.

#3 is almost ready.

I waiting for a decision on #2.

> I would estimate that 3-4 people need to work on this, two
> working on the CFP format and 1-2 working on the site itself.
> I can help out with any of the small sub-tasks such as reviewing
> the proposal, testing the CFP etc.

Like last year, I can take care of the website and help in selecting the talks.

>> My suggestion is to start work on this right now to publish the CFP
> no later than May 1st week. Give the CFP 2 months to end on
> July last week or Aug 1st week, so that reviewers get at least one
> month to do the reviews.

+1

Anand

From noufal at gmail.com  Mon Apr 18 19:50:23 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 23:20:23 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Tutorials
In-Reply-To: <87wrj1f8s8.fsf@gmail.com> (Noufal Ibrahim's message of "Mon, 11
	Apr 2011 14:45:51 +0530")
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87fwppgomj.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=YGV=900toaq45WwBMWUQnzfTknA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87wrj1f8s8.fsf@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87k4ertpnk.fsf@gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 11 2011, Noufal Ibrahim wrote:

[...]

> 1. Two or three hours per tutorial. Around 30 students max.
>
> 2 and 3 I'm not sure. The US and APAC PyCons have separate payments for
> this. It's a lot of effort to make a good tutorial so there should be
> *some* incentive. How about 500 INR per tutorial and first come first
> serve. The trainer can be paid 50% of the total amount and the IPSS can
> keep the rest. Tutorials with less than 10 participants will be
> cancelled.
>
>
> 4. If it's paid for, then this is must. Otherwise, I guess not. Maybe
>    left to the trainers? 
>
> 5. If the trainers are commercially providing these trainings outside
>    PyCon, they might not want it to be recorded and put online. That was
>    my concern (and the reason why the US ones were not recorded this
>    year).

[...]

Can we confirm this? I think it's necessary to be clear on what the
talks are going to be like before we put out the CFP and the earlier we
do that, the better. 

Also, can someone check with the venue whether they have problems with
us taking payments for the tutorials (if we are i.e.). 



-- 

From lawgon at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 01:31:52 2011
From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 05:01:52 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Tutorials
In-Reply-To: <87k4ertpnk.fsf@gmail.com>
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87fwppgomj.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=YGV=900toaq45WwBMWUQnzfTknA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87wrj1f8s8.fsf@gmail.com>  <87k4ertpnk.fsf@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1303169512.1942.37.camel@localhost>

On Mon, 2011-04-18 at 23:20 +0530, Noufal Ibrahim wrote:
> Also, can someone check with the venue whether they have problems with
> us taking payments for the tutorials (if we are i.e.). 

this has to be confirmed first - if they are not going to allow
'commercial' activity we have to know *now*.
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
http://lawgon.livejournal.com/


From rmathews at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 03:57:43 2011
From: rmathews at gmail.com (Roshan Mathews)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 07:27:43 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Tutorials
In-Reply-To: <1303169512.1942.37.camel@localhost>
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87fwppgomj.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=YGV=900toaq45WwBMWUQnzfTknA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87wrj1f8s8.fsf@gmail.com> <87k4ertpnk.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1303169512.1942.37.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <BANLkTink9VP1EN=ZUvemsivuydtW3YZiKg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 05:01, Kenneth Gonsalves <lawgon at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 2011-04-18 at 23:20 +0530, Noufal Ibrahim wrote:
>> Also, can someone check with the venue whether they have problems with
>> us taking payments for the tutorials (if we are i.e.).
>
> this has to be confirmed first - if they are not going to allow
> 'commercial' activity we have to know *now*.
>
Why is this any more 'commercial' than the conference itself?  We
didn't ask them if they have a problem with us selling tickets for
attendees.  Would they have a problem if we paid the conference
speakers (in cash? or free food/drinks/books?)

I'm +1 for paid tutorials - tutors feel more obliged to present
better, someone takes care of the digital/printed notes/exercies, plus
we know how much interest there *really* is for a tutorial - but
that's just me.  This should probably be put to a vote, and say
Dhananjay takes a call by tomorrow evening.

Roshan

-- 
http://about.me/rosh

From lawgon at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 04:04:13 2011
From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 07:34:13 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Tutorials
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTink9VP1EN=ZUvemsivuydtW3YZiKg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87fwppgomj.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=YGV=900toaq45WwBMWUQnzfTknA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87wrj1f8s8.fsf@gmail.com> <87k4ertpnk.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1303169512.1942.37.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTink9VP1EN=ZUvemsivuydtW3YZiKg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1303178653.1942.46.camel@localhost>

On Tue, 2011-04-19 at 07:27 +0530, Roshan Mathews wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 05:01, Kenneth Gonsalves <lawgon at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > On Mon, 2011-04-18 at 23:20 +0530, Noufal Ibrahim wrote:
> >> Also, can someone check with the venue whether they have problems
> with
> >> us taking payments for the tutorials (if we are i.e.).
> >
> > this has to be confirmed first - if they are not going to allow
> > 'commercial' activity we have to know *now*.
> >
> Why is this any more 'commercial' than the conference itself?  We
> didn't ask them if they have a problem with us selling tickets for
> attendees.  Would they have a problem if we paid the conference
> speakers (in cash? or free food/drinks/books?) 

please do not argue for the sake of argument - academic bodies have
policies. One such policy is that if a venue is given free, no
'commercial' activity can take place. They get to define 'commercial'.
Usually charging a token fee for attending does not come under their
definition. We just need to find out their policy. 
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
http://lawgon.livejournal.com/


From navin at smriti.com  Tue Apr 19 04:21:03 2011
From: navin at smriti.com (Navin Kabra)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 07:51:03 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Tutorials
In-Reply-To: <1303178653.1942.46.camel@localhost>
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87fwppgomj.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=YGV=900toaq45WwBMWUQnzfTknA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87wrj1f8s8.fsf@gmail.com>
	<87k4ertpnk.fsf@gmail.com> <1303169512.1942.37.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTink9VP1EN=ZUvemsivuydtW3YZiKg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1303178653.1942.46.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=T6Ah5CrTp+Ga55ShifEV08XT6-A@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 7:34 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves <lawgon at gmail.com> wrote:

> please do not argue for the sake of argument - academic bodies have
> policies. One such policy is that if a venue is given free, no
> 'commercial' activity can take place. They get to define 'commercial'.
> Usually charging a token fee for attending does not come under their
> definition. We just need to find out their policy.
>

We will check with the venue about their policies and post here...

navin.
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From rmathews at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 04:52:00 2011
From: rmathews at gmail.com (Roshan Mathews)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 08:22:00 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Tutorials
In-Reply-To: <1303178653.1942.46.camel@localhost>
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87fwppgomj.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=YGV=900toaq45WwBMWUQnzfTknA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87wrj1f8s8.fsf@gmail.com> <87k4ertpnk.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1303169512.1942.37.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTink9VP1EN=ZUvemsivuydtW3YZiKg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1303178653.1942.46.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinA8_=W6m3jP0W=k1VoOV8cpprtaA@mail.gmail.com>

Don't flatter yourself, I was arguing for the sake of the conference.

If the college is going to be asked about this then should be phrased as
"we'll have a three day conference, with paid tutorials on the first day,
and paid presentations on the next two. Is that okay?" No point phrasing it
in a way that makes it look like we expect them to say no.

But this is only relevant if it has been decided that the tutorials are to
be paid for. Is the only objection to paid tutorials the fact that the
hosting college might have a problem with this?
On Apr 19, 2011 7:39 AM, "Kenneth Gonsalves" <lawgon at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 2011-04-19 at 07:27 +0530, Roshan Mathews wrote:
>> On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 05:01, Kenneth Gonsalves <lawgon at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > On Mon, 2011-04-18 at 23:20 +0530, Noufal Ibrahim wrote:
>> >> Also, can someone check with the venue whether they have problems
>> with
>> >> us taking payments for the tutorials (if we are i.e.).
>> >
>> > this has to be confirmed first - if they are not going to allow
>> > 'commercial' activity we have to know *now*.
>> >
>> Why is this any more 'commercial' than the conference itself? We
>> didn't ask them if they have a problem with us selling tickets for
>> attendees. Would they have a problem if we paid the conference
>> speakers (in cash? or free food/drinks/books?)
>
> please do not argue for the sake of argument - academic bodies have
> policies. One such policy is that if a venue is given free, no
> 'commercial' activity can take place. They get to define 'commercial'.
> Usually charging a token fee for attending does not come under their
> definition. We just need to find out their policy.
> --
> regards
> Kenneth Gonsalves
> http://lawgon.livejournal.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Inpycon mailing list
> Inpycon at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/inpycon
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From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 05:49:09 2011
From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 09:19:09 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Tutorials
In-Reply-To: <87k4ertpnk.fsf@gmail.com>
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87fwppgomj.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=YGV=900toaq45WwBMWUQnzfTknA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87wrj1f8s8.fsf@gmail.com> <87k4ertpnk.fsf@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=qX4MDTJmfXj4kS78vW1jfCeppqA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 11:20 PM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 11 2011, Noufal Ibrahim wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > 1. Two or three hours per tutorial. Around 30 students max.
> >
> > 2 and 3 I'm not sure. The US and APAC PyCons have separate payments for
> > this. It's a lot of effort to make a good tutorial so there should be
> > *some* incentive. How about 500 INR per tutorial and first come first
> > serve. The trainer can be paid 50% of the total amount and the IPSS can
> > keep the rest. Tutorials with less than 10 participants will be
> > cancelled.
> >
> >
> > 4. If it's paid for, then this is must. Otherwise, I guess not. Maybe
> >    left to the trainers?
> >
> > 5. If the trainers are commercially providing these trainings outside
> >    PyCon, they might not want it to be recorded and put online. That was
> >    my concern (and the reason why the US ones were not recorded this
> >    year).
>
> [...]
>
> Can we confirm this?


I have at least two volunteers (including self to run the tutorials course)
I am looking for more. I believe it would be helpful if we can structure a
non commercial tutorials. As I continue to look for more volunteers - is
there anyone on the list who would be keen to volunteer for the same (ie.
running a part of the tutorial sessions) ?

This is not meant to preclude us finding out about the policies of the
institution when offering paid for tutorials - I think we need to keep both
the possibilities moving.

 Dhananjay

> --
>



-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://blog.dhananjaynene.com twitter: @dnene
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From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 06:16:52 2011
From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 09:46:52 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Transitioning/Planning of CFP task
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimovCB+KGUJGcf4MOK6jdjnh-8vQA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimovCB+KGUJGcf4MOK6jdjnh-8vQA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTincPqSxehWgtKSwUSpkd1JuyiSh7w@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 2:30 PM, Anand Balachandran Pillai <
abpillai at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>        Due to work pressure, I won't be able to handle the CFP
> task for Pycon 2011. Already informed this to the stakeholders,
> this is for the list.
>
> As of now the only artifact which exists for this task is the
> wiki page
>
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/PyConIndia2011/CFP
>
> This is right now a simple copy of the Pycon India 2010 wiki page,
> nothing more, nothing less.
>
> These are the things to do according to me, in order.
>
> 1. Decide on the dates of CFP, talks acceptance etc.
> 2. Decide on talk lengths, tutorial formats. The former
> seems to have an agreement (all 45 min talks, no 30 min
> ones), but the latter still needs work.
> 3. Create a CFP request form on the pycon india 2011
> site - you can reuse last year's template but since you
> are going to call for tutorial + talks in one CFP, this
> will need some work.
> 4. Once everything is finalized and tested, call for CFP -
> Announce in the site blog, twitter, Pycon blog (me or Senthil
> can do this), any other outlet etc.
>
> I would estimate that 3-4 people need to work on this, two
> working on the CFP format and 1-2 working on the site itself.
> I can help out with any of the small sub-tasks such as reviewing
> the proposal, testing the CFP etc.
>
> My suggestion is to start work on this right now to publish the CFP
> no later than May 1st week. Give the CFP 2 months to end on
> July last week or Aug 1st week, so that reviewers get at least one
> month to do the reviews.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Anand,

Thats a helpful summary. I entirely agree we need to meet those dates. Shall
put in some effort over the next 2-3 days to ensure the activities get
kicked off appropriately.

Dhananjay

> --
> --Anand
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Inpycon mailing list
> Inpycon at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/inpycon
>
>


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://blog.dhananjaynene.com twitter: @dnene
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From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Apr 19 04:52:29 2011
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 22:52:29 -0400
Subject: [Inpycon] Tutorials
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=T6Ah5CrTp+Ga55ShifEV08XT6-A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87fwppgomj.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=YGV=900toaq45WwBMWUQnzfTknA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87wrj1f8s8.fsf@gmail.com> <87k4ertpnk.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1303169512.1942.37.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTink9VP1EN=ZUvemsivuydtW3YZiKg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1303178653.1942.46.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTi=T6Ah5CrTp+Ga55ShifEV08XT6-A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <984A3BD4-3832-4986-8191-AB41294BCFEE@holdenweb.com>

[decloaks]

On Apr 18, 2011, at 10:21 PM, Navin Kabra wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 7:34 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves <lawgon at gmail.com> wrote:
> please do not argue for the sake of argument - academic bodies have
> policies. One such policy is that if a venue is given free, no
> 'commercial' activity can take place. They get to define 'commercial'.
> Usually charging a token fee for attending does not come under their
> definition. We just need to find out their policy.
> 
> We will check with the venue about their policies and post here...

Honesty is definitely the best policy here. What a surprise :-)

The rationale behind the "no commercial activity" clause is probably that the venue providing free accommodation can do so (only?) by virtue of its public funding, and that it would therefore be unethical to allow commercial bodies to profit from publicly subsidized assets. Or even non-profits, come to that.

I don't have any problem at all with that. As Kenneth pointed out, such august bodies are governed by policies that mere mortals have little power to change (and metaphors involving gift horses and mouths spring to mind readily here).

Here's another thought: suppose that various organizations with an interest in Python chose to offer tutorials the day before PyCon. Not everyone will be able to afford such tutorials if they are commercially priced (which they should be, because everyone has an interest in establishing high worth for Python education [disclosure: I teach for a living] :-)). So why not say "since this is a community conference, each paid attendance also entitles one other person to attend without paying any fee" [they will still need accommodation]?

The tutorials will not require the same venue: because they are a commercial enterprise, they can use hotel accommodation or find "community" support from a local software house, chamber of commerce or other merciful benefactor. All that can be priced into the budget.

If a surplus still remains even after the provision of 50% free places then I would suggest it be applied to a) rewarding those who have given up their time to preapre and present the sessions, and b) worthy delegates to PyCon whose presence will add to the conference and who may not otherwise be able to attend.

You may find such rabid socialism a little unexpected, in which case I must apologize.

regards
 Steve

PS: Seditious thought: the PSF was able to se funding from Google to encourage more women to attend PyCon US. The same sentiment may get InPyCon some very visible sponsorship. Assuming that would help, of course.

PPS: When is this conference? ;-)
[recloaks]
-- 
Steve Holden
steve at holdenweb.com
chairman at python.org

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From noufal at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 08:27:27 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 11:57:27 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Tutorials
In-Reply-To: <984A3BD4-3832-4986-8191-AB41294BCFEE@holdenweb.com> (Steve
	Holden's message of "Mon, 18 Apr 2011 22:52:29 -0400")
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87fwppgomj.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=YGV=900toaq45WwBMWUQnzfTknA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87wrj1f8s8.fsf@gmail.com> <87k4ertpnk.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1303169512.1942.37.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTink9VP1EN=ZUvemsivuydtW3YZiKg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1303178653.1942.46.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTi=T6Ah5CrTp+Ga55ShifEV08XT6-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<984A3BD4-3832-4986-8191-AB41294BCFEE@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <87vcyahi28.fsf@gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 19 2011, Steve Holden wrote:


[...]

> You may find such rabid socialism a little unexpected, in which case I
> must apologize.

The ideas are interesting but are a considerable departure from the way
we've been doing things right now. I'm not sure if we will be able to
implement them. 

>
> regards
>  Steve
>
> PS: Seditious thought: the PSF was able to se funding from Google to
> encourage more women to attend PyCon US. The same sentiment may get
> InPyCon some very visible sponsorship. Assuming that would help, of
> course.

We tried contacting Google the last two years. I spoke to Wesley as well
and he put me in touch with some chaps at the big G who might have been
able to help but no responses after that. 

> PPS: When is this conference? ;-)

First week of September. 2011 :)


-- 

From noufal at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 08:31:57 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 12:01:57 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Tutorials
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=qX4MDTJmfXj4kS78vW1jfCeppqA@mail.gmail.com> (Dhananjay
	Nene's message of "Tue, 19 Apr 2011 09:19:09 +0530")
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87fwppgomj.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=YGV=900toaq45WwBMWUQnzfTknA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87wrj1f8s8.fsf@gmail.com> <87k4ertpnk.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=qX4MDTJmfXj4kS78vW1jfCeppqA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87pqoihhuq.fsf@gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 19 2011, Dhananjay Nene wrote:


[...]

> I have at least two volunteers (including self to run the tutorials
> course) I am looking for more. I believe it would be helpful if we can
> structure a non commercial tutorials. As I continue to look for more
> volunteers - is there anyone on the list who would be keen to
> volunteer for the same (ie.  running a part of the tutorial sessions)
> ?

I don't mind taking a tutorial but I'm more interested in doing a
regular talk on something more involved.

I'm not personally interested in the payment. 

We had a talk quality problem during the first two years at the
conference. I don't like the thought of students coming to conference
for a tutorial and then receiving a half baked talk on something the
presenter has no idea about. If there's a commercial angle, I think
quality control can be better exercised. 

If it's one day for tutorials and each tutorial is (say) 3 hours, we can
do maybe 4 or 6 of them (one in the morning, one the afternoon x 3 [or
2] rooms). If you can find these many people willing to do it for free
(who you personally know to be really good), then I think we can go
ahead with unpaid tutorials but with a fixed number of seats and first
come first serve basis. 

> This is not meant to preclude us finding out about the policies of the
> institution when offering paid for tutorials - I think we need to keep
> both the possibilities moving.

Agreed. It's just that we have to decide one way or another soon so that
we can send out the CFP as early as possible.

[...]


-- 

From noufal at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 08:32:18 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 12:02:18 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Transitioning/Planning of CFP task
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTincPqSxehWgtKSwUSpkd1JuyiSh7w@mail.gmail.com> (Dhananjay
	Nene's message of "Tue, 19 Apr 2011 09:46:52 +0530")
References: <BANLkTimovCB+KGUJGcf4MOK6jdjnh-8vQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTincPqSxehWgtKSwUSpkd1JuyiSh7w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87liz6hhu5.fsf@gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 19 2011, Dhananjay Nene wrote:


[...]


> Thats a helpful summary. I entirely agree we need to meet those dates. Shall
> put in some effort over the next 2-3 days to ensure the activities get
> kicked off appropriately.

[...]

Excellent!

-- 

From noufal at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 08:43:46 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 12:13:46 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Tutorials
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinA8_=W6m3jP0W=k1VoOV8cpprtaA@mail.gmail.com> (Roshan
	Mathews's message of "Tue, 19 Apr 2011 08:22:00 +0530")
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87fwppgomj.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=YGV=900toaq45WwBMWUQnzfTknA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87wrj1f8s8.fsf@gmail.com> <87k4ertpnk.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1303169512.1942.37.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTink9VP1EN=ZUvemsivuydtW3YZiKg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1303178653.1942.46.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTinA8_=W6m3jP0W=k1VoOV8cpprtaA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87fwpehhb1.fsf@gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 19 2011, Roshan Mathews wrote:


[...]

> If the college is going to be asked about this then should be phrased as
> "we'll have a three day conference, with paid tutorials on the first day,
> and paid presentations on the next two. Is that okay?" No point phrasing it
> in a way that makes it look like we expect them to say no.

Agreed. 

> But this is only relevant if it has been decided that the tutorials
> are to be paid for. Is the only objection to paid tutorials the fact
> that the hosting college might have a problem with this?

Not really. We've agreed that we should have a day of tutorials. We're
discussin the structure (paid or unpaid mainly) and the implications
thereof. 

If we go with paid, one of the hurdles is permission from the
college. This can be resolved (only) by asking the college if it's
okay so let's do that (as Navin has agreed to).

If we go with unpaid (as Dhananjay is suggesting), we need volunteers to
take the classes and there might be other issues that haven't occurred
to me yet. 

[...]


-- 

From navin at smriti.com  Tue Apr 19 09:42:03 2011
From: navin at smriti.com (Navin Kabra)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 13:12:03 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Tutorials
In-Reply-To: <87vcyahi28.fsf@gmail.com>
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87fwppgomj.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=YGV=900toaq45WwBMWUQnzfTknA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87wrj1f8s8.fsf@gmail.com>
	<87k4ertpnk.fsf@gmail.com> <1303169512.1942.37.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTink9VP1EN=ZUvemsivuydtW3YZiKg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1303178653.1942.46.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTi=T6Ah5CrTp+Ga55ShifEV08XT6-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<984A3BD4-3832-4986-8191-AB41294BCFEE@holdenweb.com>
	<87vcyahi28.fsf@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=5hLvsXBFyZcUF1tcVLbgfe=jDjQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 11:57 AM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com> wrote:

> > PPS: When is this conference? ;-)
> First week of September. 2011 :)
>

The dates have been finalized as 16/17/18 September. 16th will be the
tutorials day, and 17/18 the main conference days.
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From anandology at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 10:22:32 2011
From: anandology at gmail.com (Anand Chitipothu)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 13:52:32 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Tutorials
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=5hLvsXBFyZcUF1tcVLbgfe=jDjQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87fwppgomj.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=YGV=900toaq45WwBMWUQnzfTknA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87wrj1f8s8.fsf@gmail.com>
	<87k4ertpnk.fsf@gmail.com> <1303169512.1942.37.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTink9VP1EN=ZUvemsivuydtW3YZiKg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1303178653.1942.46.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTi=T6Ah5CrTp+Ga55ShifEV08XT6-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<984A3BD4-3832-4986-8191-AB41294BCFEE@holdenweb.com>
	<87vcyahi28.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=5hLvsXBFyZcUF1tcVLbgfe=jDjQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=fdbpbF4EyEBPYcOp28MVgRz3wSA@mail.gmail.com>

2011/4/19 Navin Kabra <navin at smriti.com>:
> On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 11:57 AM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > PPS: When is this conference? ;-)
>> First week of September. 2011 :)
>
> The dates have been finalized as 16/17/18 September. 16th will be the
> tutorials day, and 17/18 the main conference days.

Updated the website.

http://in.pycon.org/2011/

Anand

From lawgon at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 10:36:16 2011
From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 14:06:16 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Tutorials
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=fdbpbF4EyEBPYcOp28MVgRz3wSA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87fwppgomj.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=YGV=900toaq45WwBMWUQnzfTknA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87wrj1f8s8.fsf@gmail.com> <87k4ertpnk.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1303169512.1942.37.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTink9VP1EN=ZUvemsivuydtW3YZiKg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1303178653.1942.46.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTi=T6Ah5CrTp+Ga55ShifEV08XT6-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<984A3BD4-3832-4986-8191-AB41294BCFEE@holdenweb.com>
	<87vcyahi28.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=5hLvsXBFyZcUF1tcVLbgfe=jDjQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=fdbpbF4EyEBPYcOp28MVgRz3wSA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1303202176.1942.55.camel@localhost>

On Tue, 2011-04-19 at 13:52 +0530, Anand Chitipothu wrote:
> > The dates have been finalized as 16/17/18 September. 16th will be
> the
> > tutorials day, and 17/18 the main conference days.
> 
> Updated the website.
> 
> http://in.pycon.org/2011/
> 
> 

could we have IPSS in the right column as organiser?
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
http://lawgon.livejournal.com/


From noufal at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 10:52:26 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 14:22:26 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Tutorials
In-Reply-To: <1303202176.1942.55.camel@localhost> (Kenneth Gonsalves's message
	of "Tue, 19 Apr 2011 14:06:16 +0530")
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87fwppgomj.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=YGV=900toaq45WwBMWUQnzfTknA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87wrj1f8s8.fsf@gmail.com> <87k4ertpnk.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1303169512.1942.37.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTink9VP1EN=ZUvemsivuydtW3YZiKg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1303178653.1942.46.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTi=T6Ah5CrTp+Ga55ShifEV08XT6-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<984A3BD4-3832-4986-8191-AB41294BCFEE@holdenweb.com>
	<87vcyahi28.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=5hLvsXBFyZcUF1tcVLbgfe=jDjQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=fdbpbF4EyEBPYcOp28MVgRz3wSA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1303202176.1942.55.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <871v0y39o5.fsf@gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 19 2011, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:

> On Tue, 2011-04-19 at 13:52 +0530, Anand Chitipothu wrote:
>> > The dates have been finalized as 16/17/18 September. 16th will be
>> the
>> > tutorials day, and 17/18 the main conference days.
>> 
>> Updated the website.
>> 
>> http://in.pycon.org/2011/
>> 
>> 
>
> could we have IPSS in the right column as organiser?

+1


-- 

From anandology at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 11:02:48 2011
From: anandology at gmail.com (Anand Chitipothu)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 14:32:48 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon]  Adding IPSS logo to website (was: Tutorials)
Message-ID: <BANLkTinEJUEjXaVJ54nT77aXgk2epHkp2w@mail.gmail.com>

2011/4/19 Kenneth Gonsalves <lawgon at gmail.com>:
> On Tue, 2011-04-19 at 13:52 +0530, Anand Chitipothu wrote:
>> > The dates have been finalized as 16/17/18 September. 16th will be
>> the
>> > tutorials day, and 17/18 the main conference days.
>>
>> Updated the website.
>>
>> http://in.pycon.org/2011/
>>
>>
>
> could we have IPSS in the right column as organiser?

I'm a bit worried that adding IPSS as organizer as it might give a
wrong impression that this is not a community conference.

Look at the US PyCon website. There is no logo of PSF put on the
website. I see mention of PSF only on the home page as "The Python
Software Foundation is proud to present...".

http://us.pycon.org/2011/home/

I'm not against having the logo on the website, but I think we should
phrase it correctly so that it gives the right impression.

Anand

From b.ghose at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 11:07:08 2011
From: b.ghose at gmail.com (Baishampayan Ghose)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 14:37:08 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Adding IPSS logo to website (was: Tutorials)
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinEJUEjXaVJ54nT77aXgk2epHkp2w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinEJUEjXaVJ54nT77aXgk2epHkp2w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikU1Xzrz5Z97+Wj19ZCmGLeXQxmkg@mail.gmail.com>

> I'm a bit worried that adding IPSS as organizer as it might give a
> wrong impression that this is not a community conference.

What about writing "Organised by the Indian Python community under the
aegis of IPSS"?

Regards,
BG

-- 
Baishampayan Ghose
b.ghose at gmail.com

From anandology at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 11:11:18 2011
From: anandology at gmail.com (Anand Chitipothu)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 14:41:18 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Adding IPSS logo to website (was: Tutorials)
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikU1Xzrz5Z97+Wj19ZCmGLeXQxmkg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinEJUEjXaVJ54nT77aXgk2epHkp2w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikU1Xzrz5Z97+Wj19ZCmGLeXQxmkg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=uX62pKdC4=MgQTe84BvmW3EAe+g@mail.gmail.com>

2011/4/19 Baishampayan Ghose <b.ghose at gmail.com>:
>> I'm a bit worried that adding IPSS as organizer as it might give a
>> wrong impression that this is not a community conference.
>
> What about writing "Organised by the Indian Python community under the
> aegis of IPSS"?

That is too big to fit in the right sidebar.

Kenneth was suggesting to add a logo in the rightbar.

Anand

From lawgon at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 11:11:40 2011
From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 14:41:40 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Adding IPSS logo to website (was: Tutorials)
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinEJUEjXaVJ54nT77aXgk2epHkp2w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinEJUEjXaVJ54nT77aXgk2epHkp2w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1303204300.1942.58.camel@localhost>

On Tue, 2011-04-19 at 14:32 +0530, Anand Chitipothu wrote:
> > could we have IPSS in the right column as organiser?
> 
> I'm a bit worried that adding IPSS as organizer as it might give a
> wrong impression that this is not a community conference.
> 
> Look at the US PyCon website. There is no logo of PSF put on the
> website. I see mention of PSF only on the home page as "The Python
> Software Foundation is proud to present...".
> 
> http://us.pycon.org/2011/home/

the relationship between the IPSS and inpycon is different from the
relationship between PSF and pycon us. And IPSS *is* community run
anway.
> 
> I'm not against having the logo on the website, but I think we should
> phrase it correctly so that it gives the right impression. 

organisers would be the correct term (spelt with an 's') - and we do not
*have* a logo
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
http://lawgon.livejournal.com/


From lawgon at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 11:12:19 2011
From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 14:42:19 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Adding IPSS logo to website (was: Tutorials)
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikU1Xzrz5Z97+Wj19ZCmGLeXQxmkg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinEJUEjXaVJ54nT77aXgk2epHkp2w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikU1Xzrz5Z97+Wj19ZCmGLeXQxmkg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1303204339.1942.59.camel@localhost>

On Tue, 2011-04-19 at 14:37 +0530, Baishampayan Ghose wrote:
> > I'm a bit worried that adding IPSS as organizer as it might give a
> > wrong impression that this is not a community conference.
> 
> What about writing "Organised by the Indian Python community under the
> aegis of IPSS"? 

sounds good
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
http://lawgon.livejournal.com/


From b.ghose at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 11:15:28 2011
From: b.ghose at gmail.com (Baishampayan Ghose)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 14:45:28 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Adding IPSS logo to website (was: Tutorials)
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=uX62pKdC4=MgQTe84BvmW3EAe+g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinEJUEjXaVJ54nT77aXgk2epHkp2w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikU1Xzrz5Z97+Wj19ZCmGLeXQxmkg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=uX62pKdC4=MgQTe84BvmW3EAe+g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikG1JGBKyPJypEZHX5F2bE49sxr3w@mail.gmail.com>

> That is too big to fit in the right sidebar.
>
> Kenneth was suggesting to add a logo in the rightbar.

That can be the title / alt text of the logo.

Regards,
BG

-- 
Baishampayan Ghose
b.ghose at gmail.com

From lawgon at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 11:17:23 2011
From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 14:47:23 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Adding IPSS logo to website (was: Tutorials)
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=uX62pKdC4=MgQTe84BvmW3EAe+g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinEJUEjXaVJ54nT77aXgk2epHkp2w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikU1Xzrz5Z97+Wj19ZCmGLeXQxmkg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=uX62pKdC4=MgQTe84BvmW3EAe+g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1303204643.1942.63.camel@localhost>

On Tue, 2011-04-19 at 14:41 +0530, Anand Chitipothu wrote:
> 2011/4/19 Baishampayan Ghose <b.ghose at gmail.com>:
> >> I'm a bit worried that adding IPSS as organizer as it might give a
> >> wrong impression that this is not a community conference.
> >
> > What about writing "Organised by the Indian Python community under
> the
> > aegis of IPSS"?
> 
> That is too big to fit in the right sidebar.
> 
> Kenneth was suggesting to add a logo in the rightbar. 

my suggestion was: title 'organiser' under it the words Indian Python
Software Society with a link to the IPSS site. This can be replaced by
the logo if and when we get a logo.
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
http://lawgon.livejournal.com/


From noufal at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 11:28:52 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 14:58:52 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Adding IPSS logo to website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinEJUEjXaVJ54nT77aXgk2epHkp2w@mail.gmail.com> (Anand
	Chitipothu's message of "Tue, 19 Apr 2011 14:32:48 +0530")
References: <BANLkTinEJUEjXaVJ54nT77aXgk2epHkp2w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87tydu1tez.fsf@gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 19 2011, Anand Chitipothu wrote:


[...]

> I'm a bit worried that adding IPSS as organizer as it might give a
> wrong impression that this is not a community conference.

I don't think so. The idea is not to take credit but to make people
aware of such a thing so that the community grows.

> Look at the US PyCon website. There is no logo of PSF put on the
> website. I see mention of PSF only on the home page as "The Python
> Software Foundation is proud to present...".
>
> http://us.pycon.org/2011/home/
>
> I'm not against having the logo on the website, but I think we should
> phrase it correctly so that it gives the right impression.

Either we can do what BG suggested or we can simply put it on the top of
the right column without a heading and with "Indian Python Software
Society" as the ALT text. 

There's going to be people (who won't help in anyway) that accuse it of
being some kind of a cabal of people that are trying to "subvert the
community". There's no cure for that except to ignore such people. 

We know what our intentions are and have an interest in making this grow
so that we can actually present some kind of a formal face to not just
the community but also the industry.

I see no harm in putting it up there. Whether you call it "under the
aegis of the IPSS" or just "IPSS" or "organiser" or "with support form"
or whatever is not particularly relevant as long as you don't use the
same term you use for sponsors. 

[...]


-- 

From anandology at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 11:37:13 2011
From: anandology at gmail.com (Anand Chitipothu)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 15:07:13 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Adding IPSS logo to website (was: Tutorials)
In-Reply-To: <1303204643.1942.63.camel@localhost>
References: <BANLkTinEJUEjXaVJ54nT77aXgk2epHkp2w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikU1Xzrz5Z97+Wj19ZCmGLeXQxmkg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=uX62pKdC4=MgQTe84BvmW3EAe+g@mail.gmail.com>
	<1303204643.1942.63.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <BANLkTik8e9zcV_BYb=x0HKMONQ=jqY3ocg@mail.gmail.com>

2011/4/19 Kenneth Gonsalves <lawgon at gmail.com>:
> On Tue, 2011-04-19 at 14:41 +0530, Anand Chitipothu wrote:
>> 2011/4/19 Baishampayan Ghose <b.ghose at gmail.com>:
>> >> I'm a bit worried that adding IPSS as organizer as it might give a
>> >> wrong impression that this is not a community conference.
>> >
>> > What about writing "Organised by the Indian Python community under
>> the
>> > aegis of IPSS"?
>>
>> That is too big to fit in the right sidebar.
>>
>> Kenneth was suggesting to add a logo in the rightbar.
>
> my suggestion was: title 'organiser' under it the words Indian Python
> Software Society with a link to the IPSS site. This can be replaced by
> the logo if and when we get a logo.

Done.

http://in.pycon.org/2011/

Added BG's suggestion to title of the link.

<a href="http://ipss.org/" title="PyCon India is organised by the
Indian Python community under the aegis of IPSS">Indian Python
Software Society</a>

Does this look fine?

Anand

From noufal at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 11:44:11 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 15:14:11 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Adding IPSS logo to website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTik8e9zcV_BYb=x0HKMONQ=jqY3ocg@mail.gmail.com> (Anand
	Chitipothu's message of "Tue, 19 Apr 2011 15:07:13 +0530")
References: <BANLkTinEJUEjXaVJ54nT77aXgk2epHkp2w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikU1Xzrz5Z97+Wj19ZCmGLeXQxmkg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=uX62pKdC4=MgQTe84BvmW3EAe+g@mail.gmail.com>
	<1303204643.1942.63.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTik8e9zcV_BYb=x0HKMONQ=jqY3ocg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87k4eq1spg.fsf@gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 19 2011, Anand Chitipothu wrote:


[...]

> Done.
>
> http://in.pycon.org/2011/
>
> Added BG's suggestion to title of the link.
>
> <a href="http://ipss.org/" title="PyCon India is organised by the
> Indian Python community under the aegis of IPSS">Indian Python
> Software Society</a>
>
> Does this look fine?

[...]

I think it's fine. Any naysayers?

-- 

From lawgon at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 11:44:06 2011
From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 15:14:06 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Adding IPSS logo to website (was: Tutorials)
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTik8e9zcV_BYb=x0HKMONQ=jqY3ocg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinEJUEjXaVJ54nT77aXgk2epHkp2w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikU1Xzrz5Z97+Wj19ZCmGLeXQxmkg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=uX62pKdC4=MgQTe84BvmW3EAe+g@mail.gmail.com>
	<1303204643.1942.63.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTik8e9zcV_BYb=x0HKMONQ=jqY3ocg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1303206246.1942.66.camel@localhost>

On Tue, 2011-04-19 at 15:07 +0530, Anand Chitipothu wrote:
> > my suggestion was: title 'organiser' under it the words Indian
> Python
> > Software Society with a link to the IPSS site. This can be replaced
> by
> > the logo if and when we get a logo.
> 
> Done.
> 
> http://in.pycon.org/2011/
> 
> Added BG's suggestion to title of the link.
> 
> <a href="http://ipss.org/" title="PyCon India is organised by the
> Indian Python community under the aegis of IPSS">Indian Python
> Software Society</a>
> 
> Does this look fine? 

looks ok to me - now if some kind soul just donates a logo ...
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
http://lawgon.livejournal.com/


From vid at svaksha.com  Tue Apr 19 11:47:44 2011
From: vid at svaksha.com (=?UTF-8?B?4KWlIOCkuOCljeCkteCkleCljeCktyDgpaUg?=)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 09:47:44 +0000
Subject: [Inpycon] Tutorials
In-Reply-To: <984A3BD4-3832-4986-8191-AB41294BCFEE@holdenweb.com>
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87fwppgomj.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=YGV=900toaq45WwBMWUQnzfTknA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87wrj1f8s8.fsf@gmail.com> <87k4ertpnk.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1303169512.1942.37.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTink9VP1EN=ZUvemsivuydtW3YZiKg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1303178653.1942.46.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTi=T6Ah5CrTp+Ga55ShifEV08XT6-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<984A3BD4-3832-4986-8191-AB41294BCFEE@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTim2_ngODHCJ7VaAFnwumKj+wDVB+Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 02:52, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> PS: Seditious thought: the PSF was able to se funding from Google to
> encourage more women to attend PyCon US. The same sentiment may get InPyCon
> some very visible sponsorship. Assuming that would help, of course.

I've been in touch with some folks since late last year but since
nothing was finalised (venue, dates, etc..) locally, I didnt have much
to go on but now that things are in place, its time to rekindle old
threads!

Steve, on that note, I would like to hear from you how PSF/pycon
utilised the funding/aid earmarked for women's FA travel, since afaik,
PSF (like IPSS) does not have a separate funding system per se. How
did you handle this and ensure that the sponsor's money was spent on
exactly what he/she donated it for. Is the FA spent annually, as in,
if there was a spillover (...unlikely, but I'm covering bases here) of
N amount, was it pooled into the next fiscal FA? I've thusfar put some
bits of the puzzle together but that's just speculation. Mind sharing
how its actually done?

-- 
vid ? http://svaksha.com ?

From noufal at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 11:54:54 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 15:24:54 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Adding IPSS logo to website
In-Reply-To: <1303206246.1942.66.camel@localhost> (Kenneth Gonsalves's message
	of "Tue, 19 Apr 2011 15:14:06 +0530")
References: <BANLkTinEJUEjXaVJ54nT77aXgk2epHkp2w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikU1Xzrz5Z97+Wj19ZCmGLeXQxmkg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=uX62pKdC4=MgQTe84BvmW3EAe+g@mail.gmail.com>
	<1303204643.1942.63.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTik8e9zcV_BYb=x0HKMONQ=jqY3ocg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1303206246.1942.66.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <87fwpe1s7l.fsf@gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 19 2011, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:


[...]

> looks ok to me - now if some kind soul just donates a logo ...

Good luck with that. :)


-- 

From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Apr 19 13:49:13 2011
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 07:49:13 -0400
Subject: [Inpycon] Tutorials
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTim2_ngODHCJ7VaAFnwumKj+wDVB+Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87fwppgomj.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=YGV=900toaq45WwBMWUQnzfTknA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87wrj1f8s8.fsf@gmail.com> <87k4ertpnk.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1303169512.1942.37.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTink9VP1EN=ZUvemsivuydtW3YZiKg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1303178653.1942.46.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTi=T6Ah5CrTp+Ga55ShifEV08XT6-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<984A3BD4-3832-4986-8191-AB41294BCFEE@holdenweb.com>
	<BANLkTim2_ngODHCJ7VaAFnwumKj+wDVB+Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9EB18D0D-941A-4E89-B066-DE3D3BAC7F7D@holdenweb.com>

In that case I discussed sponsorship with Google (at the time represented by Leslie Hawthorne) because we'd been hammering away on the diversity list so long, and as I remember it she said something along the lines of "why don;t you use $15,000 of our sponsorship money to encourage womens' attendance".

I think Van was a little cheesed to discover that $15,000 of his sponsorship money had been "preallocated", but Gloria and Peter made sure that an additional sum did indeed go to improving the gender balance (somewhat: we went up form 2% to 11% in 2010. Don't even know if anyone was measuring in 2011, informally I'd judge it dipped again as there was no special "women's" effort this year.

Feel free to write to Gloria and Peter for more information - I am sure they will be happy to help.

regards
 Steve

On Apr 19, 2011, at 5:47 AM, ? ?????? ? wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 02:52, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>> PS: Seditious thought: the PSF was able to se funding from Google to
>> encourage more women to attend PyCon US. The same sentiment may get InPyCon
>> some very visible sponsorship. Assuming that would help, of course.
> 
> I've been in touch with some folks since late last year but since
> nothing was finalised (venue, dates, etc..) locally, I didnt have much
> to go on but now that things are in place, its time to rekindle old
> threads!
> 
> Steve, on that note, I would like to hear from you how PSF/pycon
> utilised the funding/aid earmarked for women's FA travel, since afaik,
> PSF (like IPSS) does not have a separate funding system per se. How
> did you handle this and ensure that the sponsor's money was spent on
> exactly what he/she donated it for. Is the FA spent annually, as in,
> if there was a spillover (...unlikely, but I'm covering bases here) of
> N amount, was it pooled into the next fiscal FA? I've thusfar put some
> bits of the puzzle together but that's just speculation. Mind sharing
> how its actually done?
> 
> -- 
> vid ? http://svaksha.com ?
> _______________________________________________
> Inpycon mailing list
> Inpycon at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/inpycon

-- 
Steve Holden
steve at holdenweb.com



-------------- next part --------------
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From lawgon at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 14:21:06 2011
From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 17:51:06 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Tutorials
In-Reply-To: <9EB18D0D-941A-4E89-B066-DE3D3BAC7F7D@holdenweb.com>
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87fwppgomj.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=YGV=900toaq45WwBMWUQnzfTknA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87wrj1f8s8.fsf@gmail.com> <87k4ertpnk.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1303169512.1942.37.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTink9VP1EN=ZUvemsivuydtW3YZiKg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1303178653.1942.46.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTi=T6Ah5CrTp+Ga55ShifEV08XT6-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<984A3BD4-3832-4986-8191-AB41294BCFEE@holdenweb.com>
	<BANLkTim2_ngODHCJ7VaAFnwumKj+wDVB+Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<9EB18D0D-941A-4E89-B066-DE3D3BAC7F7D@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <1303215666.1942.79.camel@localhost>

On Tue, 2011-04-19 at 07:49 -0400, Steve Holden wrote:
> but Gloria and Peter made sure that an additional sum did indeed go to
> improving the gender balance (somewhat: we went up form 2% to 11% in
> 2010.

any clues as to how the gender balance has improved? We get some amount
of women students who come for meets - and for conferences. But
professional women attending conferences is very rare here. And devs
seem scarce on the ground - like django has just *one* woman in the core
dev group - although there seem to be a fair number on the mailing list
(and practically none on the IRC list)
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
http://lawgon.livejournal.com/


From noufal at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 14:44:18 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 18:14:18 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Tutorials
In-Reply-To: <9EB18D0D-941A-4E89-B066-DE3D3BAC7F7D@holdenweb.com> (Steve
	Holden's message of "Tue, 19 Apr 2011 07:49:13 -0400")
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87fwppgomj.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=YGV=900toaq45WwBMWUQnzfTknA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87wrj1f8s8.fsf@gmail.com> <87k4ertpnk.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1303169512.1942.37.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTink9VP1EN=ZUvemsivuydtW3YZiKg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1303178653.1942.46.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTi=T6Ah5CrTp+Ga55ShifEV08XT6-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<984A3BD4-3832-4986-8191-AB41294BCFEE@holdenweb.com>
	<BANLkTim2_ngODHCJ7VaAFnwumKj+wDVB+Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<9EB18D0D-941A-4E89-B066-DE3D3BAC7F7D@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <874o5u1kd9.fsf@gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 19 2011, Steve Holden wrote:

> In that case I discussed sponsorship with Google (at the time
> represented by Leslie Hawthorne) because we'd been hammering away on
> the diversity list so long, and as I remember it she said something
> along the lines of "why don;t you use $15,000 of our sponsorship money
> to encourage womens' attendance".
>
> I think Van was a little cheesed to discover that $15,000 of his
> sponsorship money had been "preallocated", but Gloria and Peter made
> sure that an additional sum did indeed go to improving the gender
> balance (somewhat: we went up form 2% to 11% in 2010. Don't even know
> if anyone was measuring in 2011, informally I'd judge it dipped again
> as there was no special "women's" effort this year.

This was my general reservation when this was first brought up. Given
that we're very small and with a shoestring budget, it seemed a bad idea
to get money with strings attached from any sponsor. 

Also, like Kenneth has mentioned in the followup to your email, the
number of female participants here seems quite low. I haven't really
looked into the distribution and reasons for lack of attendance but
diversity, during the first and second time conference was not the first
thing on my mind. 

Still, if someone takes the lead for this and it doesn't put any extra
commitments on us, it'd doable. 

> Feel free to write to Gloria and Peter for more information - I am
> sure they will be happy to help.

[...]


-- 

From b.ghose at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 16:14:19 2011
From: b.ghose at gmail.com (Baishampayan Ghose)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 19:44:19 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Minutes of a meeting that took place today
Message-ID: <BANLkTimEOr4397=YtbhMT0osS3x1RSTSXA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I met with Dhananjay & Ramakrishna today and this is what we discussed about -

* We will polish the CfP text on the Wiki in the next few days
* The CfP will go live on 26 Apr (website related assistance could be required)
* The final deadline for submission of talk abstracts will be 15 June
* We will have a tentative list ready for internal discussions by 15 July
* We will finalize the list and will publish the final list on 1 Aug
* There will be three types of talks
  - Lightning talks (10-15 mins)
  - Regular talks (45 mins)
  - Tutorials (3 Hours?)
* Participants will have to pay to attend tutorials
* Tutorials will be conducted by volunteers

Regards,
BG

-- 
Baishampayan Ghose
b.ghose at gmail.com

From vid at svaksha.com  Tue Apr 19 16:28:15 2011
From: vid at svaksha.com (=?UTF-8?B?4KWlIOCkuOCljeCkteCkleCljeCktyDgpaUg?=)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 14:28:15 +0000
Subject: [Inpycon] Tutorials
In-Reply-To: <1303215666.1942.79.camel@localhost>
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87fwppgomj.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=YGV=900toaq45WwBMWUQnzfTknA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87wrj1f8s8.fsf@gmail.com> <87k4ertpnk.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1303169512.1942.37.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTink9VP1EN=ZUvemsivuydtW3YZiKg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1303178653.1942.46.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTi=T6Ah5CrTp+Ga55ShifEV08XT6-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<984A3BD4-3832-4986-8191-AB41294BCFEE@holdenweb.com>
	<BANLkTim2_ngODHCJ7VaAFnwumKj+wDVB+Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<9EB18D0D-941A-4E89-B066-DE3D3BAC7F7D@holdenweb.com>
	<1303215666.1942.79.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinU5j2Xwf6_bFoK3csQs0=PUfwBhA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 12:21, Kenneth Gonsalves <lawgon at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> any clues as to how the gender balance has improved? We get some amount
> of women students who come for meets - and for conferences. But
> professional women attending conferences is very rare here. And devs
> seem scarce on the ground - like django has just *one* woman in the core
> dev group - although there seem to be a fair number on the mailing list
> (and practically none on the IRC list)

The short, *hire* more female python developers and/or provide more
python training internally at company cost.

The long,
[o] Attending conferences (i'd wager the same for local meets) are
expensive -- in terms of time *and* money, both of which are essential
for traveling to attend a conference. Being granted (paid) leave by
your company so that she can take time off from family
responsibilities to attend a conference in another city is yet another
factor. Usually, employees from the Marketing/Sales and PR department
can easily justify attending conferences than, say, a junior dev. I'm
not aware of Indian companies with any policies regarding conference
attendance and higher training mandatory for their dev's, much less
female dev's[0].

[o] Women (or men, fwiw) dont drop off the sky into any CS community
or company (gee....someone had to say it :)), so unless there is an
initiative from: the community/companies using python/<add your choice
here> , more technical meets in a variety of CS topics, a friendlier
local community that can champion Python, etc.. its an uphill battle.
Secondly, its harder to justify attending a meet in a far-flung area
if the topic is not of interest, either personally or professionally.
This is true for meets of any kind, LUG or Python meets -- I recall a
female devel mentioning that she isnt interested in a social meetup or
meets that start late in the evenings as traveling is an issue. This
is something I can totally relate with. Besides, if women attending
meets are in single digits, the conversation isnt exactly kosher and
its _very_ easy to feel unwelcome or feel like an outsider imposing
onto a group of close friends, hence unwelcome.

[o] Another cyclic pattern, Universities need to teach python and
unless there are companies employing python dev's the transition from
University to python developer at her workplace to core dev is
(light)years away.

Besides these, I heard someone mention that some companies hire women
to save money. Ouch, see, Women Don't Ask, negotiation and the Gender
Divide[1]

[0] http://www.devchix.com/2011/01/23/what-makes-the-best-workplace-atmosphere-and-culture/
[1] http://www.amazon.com/Women-Dont-Ask-Negotiation-Gender/dp/069108940X

HTH,
-- 
vid ? http://svaksha.com ?

From vid at svaksha.com  Tue Apr 19 16:29:32 2011
From: vid at svaksha.com (=?UTF-8?B?4KWlIOCkuOCljeCkteCkleCljeCktyDgpaUg?=)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 14:29:32 +0000
Subject: [Inpycon] Tutorials
In-Reply-To: <9EB18D0D-941A-4E89-B066-DE3D3BAC7F7D@holdenweb.com>
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87fwppgomj.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=YGV=900toaq45WwBMWUQnzfTknA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87wrj1f8s8.fsf@gmail.com> <87k4ertpnk.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1303169512.1942.37.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTink9VP1EN=ZUvemsivuydtW3YZiKg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1303178653.1942.46.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTi=T6Ah5CrTp+Ga55ShifEV08XT6-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<984A3BD4-3832-4986-8191-AB41294BCFEE@holdenweb.com>
	<BANLkTim2_ngODHCJ7VaAFnwumKj+wDVB+Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<9EB18D0D-941A-4E89-B066-DE3D3BAC7F7D@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinq8sjzWqUfW57p6VN6-=7hcpxBPQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Steve,

On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 11:49, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> In that case I discussed sponsorship with Google (at the time represented by
> Leslie Hawthorne) because we'd been hammering away on the diversity list so
> long, and as I remember it she said something along the lines of "why don;t
> you use $15,000 of our sponsorship money to encourage womens' attendance".
> I think Van was a little cheesed to discover that $15,000 of his sponsorship
> money had been "preallocated", but Gloria and Peter made sure that an
> additional sum did indeed go to improving the gender balance (somewhat: we
> went up form 2% to 11% in 2010.

The 2010 transition from single digits to double is indeed laudable,
thanks to the champions within Google (no names please!) :).

Can you explain what you meant when you say "an additional sum went
into improving the gender balance" -- do you mean the PSF matched the
sponsorship money or another sponsor pitched in an equal amount?
...something else I'm missing?


> Don't even know if anyone was measuring in
> 2011, informally I'd judge it dipped again as there was no special "women's"
> effort this year.
> Feel free to write to Gloria and Peter for more information - I am sure they
> will be happy to help.

/me goes to bug them a bit more :)

-- 
vid ? http://svaksha.com ?

From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Apr 19 17:14:51 2011
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 11:14:51 -0400
Subject: [Inpycon] Tutorials
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinq8sjzWqUfW57p6VN6-=7hcpxBPQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87fwppgomj.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=YGV=900toaq45WwBMWUQnzfTknA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87wrj1f8s8.fsf@gmail.com> <87k4ertpnk.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1303169512.1942.37.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTink9VP1EN=ZUvemsivuydtW3YZiKg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1303178653.1942.46.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTi=T6Ah5CrTp+Ga55ShifEV08XT6-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<984A3BD4-3832-4986-8191-AB41294BCFEE@holdenweb.com>
	<BANLkTim2_ngODHCJ7VaAFnwumKj+wDVB+Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<9EB18D0D-941A-4E89-B066-DE3D3BAC7F7D@holdenweb.com>
	<BANLkTinq8sjzWqUfW57p6VN6-=7hcpxBPQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <246F7F5F-3A64-47D1-8721-0131FF63AE61@holdenweb.com>

On Apr 19, 2011, at 10:29 AM, ? ?????? ? wrote:

> Can you explain what you meant when you say "an additional sum went
> into improving the gender balance" -- do you mean the PSF matched the
> sponsorship money or another sponsor pitched in an equal amount?
> ...something else I'm missing?
> 
I simply meant that the conference budget had already allocated an amount for financial assistance, to which I added the Google sponsorship money to broaden the support we offered specifically to women. I got one email complaining that it was unfair. I explained my PoV in a reply and that was the end of it.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden
steve at holdenweb.com



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From noufal at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 18:04:52 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 21:34:52 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Minutes of a meeting that took place today
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimEOr4397=YtbhMT0osS3x1RSTSXA@mail.gmail.com>
	(Baishampayan Ghose's message of "Tue, 19 Apr 2011 19:44:19 +0530")
References: <BANLkTimEOr4397=YtbhMT0osS3x1RSTSXA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87y636z0pn.fsf@gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 19 2011, Baishampayan Ghose wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I met with Dhananjay & Ramakrishna today and this is what we discussed about -
>
> * We will polish the CfP text on the Wiki in the next few days
> * The CfP will go live on 26 Apr (website related assistance could be
> required)

Anand should be able to take care of anything on that front.

> * The final deadline for submission of talk abstracts will be 15 June
> * We will have a tentative list ready for internal discussions by 15 July
> * We will finalize the list and will publish the final list on 1 Aug
> * There will be three types of talks
>   - Lightning talks (10-15 mins)

I don't think this is a good idea. A 10-15 minute talk is a short
talk. Lightning talks are 5 minutes long and have to be one after the
next in immediate succession. If you sit for an hour or so, you'll have
tons of ideas to think about and a few bad ones which you have to
ignore. 

Also, they're mostly impromptu without the need for prior
registration. We simply open up "bookings" on the days of the conference
(either online or at a desk) and people can sign up. This is what makes
is successful like in the US PyCON. 


>   - Regular talks (45 mins)
>   - Tutorials (3 Hours?)
> * Participants will have to pay to attend tutorials

Any decisions about the price?

> * Tutorials will be conducted by volunteers

[...]


-- 

From ramkrsna at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 18:17:30 2011
From: ramkrsna at gmail.com (Ramakrishna Reddy)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 21:47:30 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Minutes of a meeting that took place today
In-Reply-To: <87y636z0pn.fsf@gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimEOr4397=YtbhMT0osS3x1RSTSXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87y636z0pn.fsf@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=iW5YLB-Q6K9Fgq5Op3jofL967hg@mail.gmail.com>

Hey all

On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 9:34 PM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't think this is a good idea. A 10-15 minute talk is a short
> talk. Lightning talks are 5 minutes long and have to be one after the
> next in immediate succession.

Noted. Its going to its going to be lightning talks 5 - 7 minutes.

>> * Participants will have to pay to attend tutorials
> Any decisions about the price?

Its going to be nominal  ? 150 - 200 /- . No final decision is taken
on the exact amount.
The price is just to filter out the serious ones from the ones who
just dropping by.

Regards
-- 
Ramakrishna Reddy? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? GPG
Key ID:31FF0090
Fingerprint =? 18D7 3FC1 784B B57F C08F? 32B9 4496 B2A1 31FF 0090

From noufal at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 18:39:40 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 22:09:40 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Minutes of a meeting that took place today
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=iW5YLB-Q6K9Fgq5Op3jofL967hg@mail.gmail.com> (Ramakrishna
	Reddy's message of "Tue, 19 Apr 2011 21:47:30 +0530")
References: <BANLkTimEOr4397=YtbhMT0osS3x1RSTSXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87y636z0pn.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=iW5YLB-Q6K9Fgq5Op3jofL967hg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87tyduyz3n.fsf@gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 19 2011, Ramakrishna Reddy wrote:

> Hey all
>
> On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 9:34 PM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I don't think this is a good idea. A 10-15 minute talk is a short
>> talk. Lightning talks are 5 minutes long and have to be one after the
>> next in immediate succession.
>
> Noted. Its going to its going to be lightning talks 5 - 7 minutes.

[...]

It should be a fixed hard time limit. That's what distills the talks
into something fun and keep the audience interested.
-- 

From lawgon at gmail.com  Wed Apr 20 01:54:06 2011
From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 05:24:06 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Tutorials
In-Reply-To: <874o5u1kd9.fsf@gmail.com>
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87fwppgomj.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=YGV=900toaq45WwBMWUQnzfTknA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87wrj1f8s8.fsf@gmail.com> <87k4ertpnk.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1303169512.1942.37.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTink9VP1EN=ZUvemsivuydtW3YZiKg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1303178653.1942.46.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTi=T6Ah5CrTp+Ga55ShifEV08XT6-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<984A3BD4-3832-4986-8191-AB41294BCFEE@holdenweb.com>
	<BANLkTim2_ngODHCJ7VaAFnwumKj+wDVB+Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<9EB18D0D-941A-4E89-B066-DE3D3BAC7F7D@holdenweb.com>
	<874o5u1kd9.fsf@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1303257246.1942.89.camel@localhost>

On Tue, 2011-04-19 at 18:14 +0530, Noufal Ibrahim wrote:
> Also, like Kenneth has mentioned in the followup to your email, the
> number of female participants here seems quite low. I haven't really
> looked into the distribution and reasons for lack of attendance but
> diversity, during the first and second time conference was not the
> first
> thing on my mind. 

as a small note, I have been conducting python workshops in engineering
colleges around the country for the past 6 years. Except for one or two
places, the men/women percentage of attendance has been 50-50. And
consistently across the country I have noticed that the girls in the
workshops grasped concepts faster and did the assignments first. They
were more articulate and discussed both in the workshops and outside -
and to dispel another myth, a lot of them were multitasking. But the
long term effect in terms of joining the community is not happening.
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
http://lawgon.livejournal.com/


From anandology at gmail.com  Wed Apr 20 03:55:28 2011
From: anandology at gmail.com (Anand Chitipothu)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 07:25:28 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Minutes of a meeting that took place today
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=iW5YLB-Q6K9Fgq5Op3jofL967hg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimEOr4397=YtbhMT0osS3x1RSTSXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87y636z0pn.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=iW5YLB-Q6K9Fgq5Op3jofL967hg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=T+xpG9RfinDFwURnR=m_+YiZpnQ@mail.gmail.com>

>>> * Participants will have to pay to attend tutorials
>> Any decisions about the price?
>
> Its going to be nominal ?? 150 - 200 /- . No final decision is taken
> on the exact amount.
> The price is just to filter out the serious ones from the ones who
> just dropping by.

Noise can be filtered by the conference fee. I didn't understand why
there is a need for additional filtration.

Is it possible to attend the tutorials and not pay for the conference?

Anand

From satyaakam at gmail.com  Wed Apr 20 04:24:36 2011
From: satyaakam at gmail.com (satyaakam goswami)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 07:54:36 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Minutes of a meeting that took place today
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=T+xpG9RfinDFwURnR=m_+YiZpnQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimEOr4397=YtbhMT0osS3x1RSTSXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87y636z0pn.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=iW5YLB-Q6K9Fgq5Op3jofL967hg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=T+xpG9RfinDFwURnR=m_+YiZpnQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimPmcp-Jk4GFrthGzNCYYNwnRKSKw@mail.gmail.com>

>
> > The price is just to filter out the serious ones from the ones who
> > just dropping by.
>
> Noise can be filtered by the conference fee. I didn't understand why
> there is a need for additional filtration.
>
> Is it possible to attend the tutorials and not pay for the conference?


yes a valid point to ask , the other way to look at it  is  having a fee
was/is to add value to our offerings and in some way recognize the efforts
of the people who are conducting these tutorials.

-Satya
fossevents.in
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From satyaakam at gmail.com  Wed Apr 20 04:29:34 2011
From: satyaakam at gmail.com (satyaakam goswami)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 07:59:34 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Tutorials
In-Reply-To: <1303257246.1942.89.camel@localhost>
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87fwppgomj.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=YGV=900toaq45WwBMWUQnzfTknA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87wrj1f8s8.fsf@gmail.com> <87k4ertpnk.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1303169512.1942.37.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTink9VP1EN=ZUvemsivuydtW3YZiKg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1303178653.1942.46.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTi=T6Ah5CrTp+Ga55ShifEV08XT6-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<984A3BD4-3832-4986-8191-AB41294BCFEE@holdenweb.com>
	<BANLkTim2_ngODHCJ7VaAFnwumKj+wDVB+Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<9EB18D0D-941A-4E89-B066-DE3D3BAC7F7D@holdenweb.com>
	<874o5u1kd9.fsf@gmail.com> <1303257246.1942.89.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=r2gc=0aa7Ty28psLsjpskTY5Fkg@mail.gmail.com>

>
> as a small note, I have been conducting python workshops in engineering
> colleges around the country for the past 6 years. Except for one or two
> places, the men/women percentage of attendance has been 50-50. And
> consistently across the country I have noticed that the girls in the
> workshops grasped concepts faster and did the assignments first. They
> were more articulate and discussed both in the workshops and outside -
> and to dispel another myth, a lot of them were multitasking. But the
> long term effect in terms of joining the community is not happening.
>

did you probe more to find why ?  women on this list should be  able to
answer some , also may be we can find some answers from
http://www.linuxchix.org/ folks in india too.

-Satya
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From lawgon at gmail.com  Wed Apr 20 05:18:36 2011
From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 08:48:36 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] diversity [was]Tutorials
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=r2gc=0aa7Ty28psLsjpskTY5Fkg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87fwppgomj.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=YGV=900toaq45WwBMWUQnzfTknA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87wrj1f8s8.fsf@gmail.com> <87k4ertpnk.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1303169512.1942.37.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTink9VP1EN=ZUvemsivuydtW3YZiKg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1303178653.1942.46.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTi=T6Ah5CrTp+Ga55ShifEV08XT6-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<984A3BD4-3832-4986-8191-AB41294BCFEE@holdenweb.com>
	<BANLkTim2_ngODHCJ7VaAFnwumKj+wDVB+Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<9EB18D0D-941A-4E89-B066-DE3D3BAC7F7D@holdenweb.com>
	<874o5u1kd9.fsf@gmail.com> <1303257246.1942.89.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTi=r2gc=0aa7Ty28psLsjpskTY5Fkg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1303269516.1942.100.camel@localhost>

On Wed, 2011-04-20 at 07:59 +0530, satyaakam goswami wrote:
> > and to dispel another myth, a lot of them were multitasking. But the
> > long term effect in terms of joining the community is not happening.
> >
> 
> did you probe more to find why ? 

afaik it is a cultural thing - most people I know, join in communities
because the enjoy it and have fun. Take T shirts - most girls from
smaller places (who are usually more dedicated) cannot wear T shirts (or
jeans), so one motivation to attend a conference is gone ;-) But as far
as the Indian python community is concerned, we have not reached the
stage of worrying about diversity - we still in the stage of building a
viable community.

-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
http://lawgon.livejournal.com/


From satyaakam at gmail.com  Wed Apr 20 06:18:09 2011
From: satyaakam at gmail.com (satyaakam goswami)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 09:48:09 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] diversity [was]Tutorials
In-Reply-To: <1303269516.1942.100.camel@localhost>
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87fwppgomj.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=YGV=900toaq45WwBMWUQnzfTknA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87wrj1f8s8.fsf@gmail.com> <87k4ertpnk.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1303169512.1942.37.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTink9VP1EN=ZUvemsivuydtW3YZiKg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1303178653.1942.46.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTi=T6Ah5CrTp+Ga55ShifEV08XT6-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<984A3BD4-3832-4986-8191-AB41294BCFEE@holdenweb.com>
	<BANLkTim2_ngODHCJ7VaAFnwumKj+wDVB+Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<9EB18D0D-941A-4E89-B066-DE3D3BAC7F7D@holdenweb.com>
	<874o5u1kd9.fsf@gmail.com> <1303257246.1942.89.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTi=r2gc=0aa7Ty28psLsjpskTY5Fkg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1303269516.1942.100.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikmgii152fZp2ONe=UcpVyTz+mspw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 8:48 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves <lawgon at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 2011-04-20 at 07:59 +0530, satyaakam goswami wrote:
> > > and to dispel another myth, a lot of them were multitasking. But the
> > > long term effect in terms of joining the community is not happening.
> > >
> >
> > did you probe more to find why ?
>
> afaik it is a cultural thing - most people I know, join in communities
> because the enjoy it and have fun. Take T shirts - most girls from
> smaller places (who are usually more dedicated) cannot wear T shirts (or
> jeans), so one motivation to attend a conference is gone ;-) But as far
> as the Indian python community is concerned, we have not reached the
> stage of worrying about diversity - we still in the stage of building a
> viable community.
>

yes i am interested in the word "viable" :-) , i agree to your observations
,  will keep a note of it , i think this issue is  applicable to both
genders , about building community  yes i remember we started a thread on
ipss will follow up on that .

-Satya
fossevents.in
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From b.ghose at gmail.com  Wed Apr 20 06:19:56 2011
From: b.ghose at gmail.com (Baishampayan Ghose)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 09:49:56 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Tutorials
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinU5j2Xwf6_bFoK3csQs0=PUfwBhA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87fwppgomj.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=YGV=900toaq45WwBMWUQnzfTknA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87wrj1f8s8.fsf@gmail.com>
	<87k4ertpnk.fsf@gmail.com> <1303169512.1942.37.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTink9VP1EN=ZUvemsivuydtW3YZiKg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1303178653.1942.46.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTi=T6Ah5CrTp+Ga55ShifEV08XT6-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<984A3BD4-3832-4986-8191-AB41294BCFEE@holdenweb.com>
	<BANLkTim2_ngODHCJ7VaAFnwumKj+wDVB+Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<9EB18D0D-941A-4E89-B066-DE3D3BAC7F7D@holdenweb.com>
	<1303215666.1942.79.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTinU5j2Xwf6_bFoK3csQs0=PUfwBhA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimuTYDSmA3+bqoi5=BGihufsMY4ng@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 7:58 PM, ? ?????? ? <vid at svaksha.com> wrote:
> The short, *hire* more female python developers and/or provide more
> python training internally at company cost.

[OT] How exactly can companies hire more "female" devs? AFAIK,
companies hire developers and not male and female developers
separately. I am interested in this topic because I recruit developers
for my company myself. (Feel free to reply off list).

Regards,
BG

-- 
Baishampayan Ghose
b.ghose at gmail.com

From noufal at gmail.com  Wed Apr 20 06:27:59 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 09:57:59 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Minutes of a meeting that took place today
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=T+xpG9RfinDFwURnR=m_+YiZpnQ@mail.gmail.com> (Anand
	Chitipothu's message of "Wed, 20 Apr 2011 07:25:28 +0530")
References: <BANLkTimEOr4397=YtbhMT0osS3x1RSTSXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87y636z0pn.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=iW5YLB-Q6K9Fgq5Op3jofL967hg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=T+xpG9RfinDFwURnR=m_+YiZpnQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87sjtd8s34.fsf@gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 20 2011, Anand Chitipothu wrote:

>>>> * Participants will have to pay to attend tutorials
>>> Any decisions about the price?
>>
>> Its going to be nominal ?? 150 - 200 /- . No final decision is taken
>> on the exact amount.
>> The price is just to filter out the serious ones from the ones who
>> just dropping by.
>
> Noise can be filtered by the conference fee. I didn't understand why
> there is a need for additional filtration.
>
> Is it possible to attend the tutorials and not pay for the conference?

[...]

I don't think putting a token amount to filter noise *just* for the
tutorials makes much sense. The conference reg. fees should do that. 
I agree with Anand. 

The tutorials are charged so that
        1. People have high expectations.
        2. People receive materials and stuff.
        3. The conference makes some money
        4. The conference can get commercial quality training done by
           professional trainers and actually pay them cash to do so. 


In the US system, you *have* to register for the conference regardless
of what you're planning to attend. Then, if you want to attend
tutorials, you have to pay per tutorial (with some discounts if you're
taking more than one). Commercial trainings are expensive an this is a
way to get good ones for lower costs. 

If we are asking for money, I think we should consider these points.

Thanks


        
-- 

From rmathews at gmail.com  Wed Apr 20 07:50:53 2011
From: rmathews at gmail.com (Roshan Mathews)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 11:20:53 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Minutes of a meeting that took place today
In-Reply-To: <87sjtd8s34.fsf@gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimEOr4397=YtbhMT0osS3x1RSTSXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87y636z0pn.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=iW5YLB-Q6K9Fgq5Op3jofL967hg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=T+xpG9RfinDFwURnR=m_+YiZpnQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<87sjtd8s34.fsf@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=QMSrMn=0mARYwFE8zyV_dM+H7ZQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 09:57, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com> wrote:
> The tutorials are charged so that
> ? ? ? ?1. People have high expectations.
> ? ? ? ?2. People receive materials and stuff.
> ? ? ? ?3. The conference makes some money
> ? ? ? ?4. The conference can get commercial quality training done by
> ? ? ? ? ? professional trainers and actually pay them cash to do so.
>

I'm sure that there are lots of factors that will affect the pricing
of tickets, but here are some numbers I pulled from a quick search
online:

RubyConf US 2010 - USD 300
RubyConf India 2011 - INR 1500

So that's a conversion factor of 5, or say 4 if we don't want to be pricey.

PyCon US 2011 -
    Corporate    USD 600
    Individual   USD 350
    Student      USD 225
    Tutorial     USD 150 each

So that will give us indicative figures for PyCon India 2011:
    Corporate    INR 2400
    Individual   INR 1400
    Student      INR 900
    Tutorial     INR 600 each

I guess the ratios might be helpful.  So then, if the main conference
tickets (Individual) are around INR 350, then the tutorials can be INR
150.

> In the US system, you *have* to register for the conference regardless
> of what you're planning to attend. Then, if you want to attend
> tutorials, you have to pay per tutorial (with some discounts if you're
> taking more than one).

According to http://us.pycon.org/2011/tickets/ ... people could buy
tickets only for the tutorials and not for the main conference.

-- 
http://about.me/rosh

From admin.nitjece at gmail.com  Wed Apr 20 12:01:11 2011
From: admin.nitjece at gmail.com (Diptanu Choudhury)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 15:31:11 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Minutes of a meeting that took place today
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=QMSrMn=0mARYwFE8zyV_dM+H7ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimEOr4397=YtbhMT0osS3x1RSTSXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87y636z0pn.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=iW5YLB-Q6K9Fgq5Op3jofL967hg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=T+xpG9RfinDFwURnR=m_+YiZpnQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<87sjtd8s34.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=QMSrMn=0mARYwFE8zyV_dM+H7ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimcuiJFYjeP+O45Y+3w_QCfoVoQCQ@mail.gmail.com>

+1 on 5 mins Lightning Talk. But Noufal, does it have to be impromptu ?
How would you judge whether it is a good talk?

On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 11:20 AM, Roshan Mathews <rmathews at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 09:57, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com> wrote:
> > The tutorials are charged so that
> >        1. People have high expectations.
> >        2. People receive materials and stuff.
> >        3. The conference makes some money
> >        4. The conference can get commercial quality training done by
> >           professional trainers and actually pay them cash to do so.
> >
>
> I'm sure that there are lots of factors that will affect the pricing
> of tickets, but here are some numbers I pulled from a quick search
> online:
>
> RubyConf US 2010 - USD 300
> RubyConf India 2011 - INR 1500
>
> So that's a conversion factor of 5, or say 4 if we don't want to be pricey.
>
> PyCon US 2011 -
>    Corporate    USD 600
>    Individual   USD 350
>    Student      USD 225
>    Tutorial     USD 150 each
>
> So that will give us indicative figures for PyCon India 2011:
>    Corporate    INR 2400
>    Individual   INR 1400
>    Student      INR 900
>    Tutorial     INR 600 each
>
> I guess the ratios might be helpful.  So then, if the main conference
> tickets (Individual) are around INR 350, then the tutorials can be INR
> 150.
>
> > In the US system, you *have* to register for the conference regardless
> > of what you're planning to attend. Then, if you want to attend
> > tutorials, you have to pay per tutorial (with some discounts if you're
> > taking more than one).
>
> According to http://us.pycon.org/2011/tickets/ ... people could buy
> tickets only for the tutorials and not for the main conference.
>
> --
> http://about.me/rosh
> _______________________________________________
> Inpycon mailing list
> Inpycon at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/inpycon
>



-- 
Thanks,
Diptanu Choudhury
Mobile - +919686602153
Web - www.linkedin.com/in/diptanu
Twitter - @diptanu <http://twitter.com/diptanu>
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From lawgon at gmail.com  Wed Apr 20 12:13:15 2011
From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 15:43:15 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Minutes of a meeting that took place today
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimcuiJFYjeP+O45Y+3w_QCfoVoQCQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimEOr4397=YtbhMT0osS3x1RSTSXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87y636z0pn.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=iW5YLB-Q6K9Fgq5Op3jofL967hg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=T+xpG9RfinDFwURnR=m_+YiZpnQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<87sjtd8s34.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=QMSrMn=0mARYwFE8zyV_dM+H7ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimcuiJFYjeP+O45Y+3w_QCfoVoQCQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1303294395.1942.147.camel@localhost>

On Wed, 2011-04-20 at 15:31 +0530, Diptanu Choudhury wrote:
> +1 on 5 mins Lightning Talk. But Noufal, does it have to be
> impromptu ?
> How would you judge whether it is a good talk? 

you do not judge - after all it is only 5 minutes (although even that
would seem like an hour)
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
http://lawgon.livejournal.com/


From noufal at gmail.com  Wed Apr 20 12:33:32 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 16:03:32 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Minutes of a meeting that took place today
In-Reply-To: <1303294395.1942.147.camel@localhost> (Kenneth Gonsalves's
	message of "Wed, 20 Apr 2011 15:43:15 +0530")
References: <BANLkTimEOr4397=YtbhMT0osS3x1RSTSXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87y636z0pn.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=iW5YLB-Q6K9Fgq5Op3jofL967hg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=T+xpG9RfinDFwURnR=m_+YiZpnQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<87sjtd8s34.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=QMSrMn=0mARYwFE8zyV_dM+H7ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimcuiJFYjeP+O45Y+3w_QCfoVoQCQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1303294395.1942.147.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <87aafl6wlf.fsf@gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 20 2011, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:

> On Wed, 2011-04-20 at 15:31 +0530, Diptanu Choudhury wrote:
>> +1 on 5 mins Lightning Talk. But Noufal, does it have to be
>> impromptu ?
>> How would you judge whether it is a good talk? 
>
> you do not judge - after all it is only 5 minutes (although even that
> would seem like an hour)

You don't. People talk quickly about all sorts of things during
lightning talks 
        - Smaller python related conferences.
        - Tiny projects that they're doing.
        - Social issues that might have been tackled using python.
        - Books/articles relevant to Python.

The person who manages the lightning talks should take entries on both
the days and do a quick filtering of obvious disasters e.g. companies
trying to advertise their junk and hire people, totally pointless rants
etc. It's subjective (based on the lightning talk MC's decisions) but
that's okay.

As for "bad" talks, that's the beauty of the 5 minute time limit. If it
totally sucks, by the time you tweet saying that the talk sucks, it'll
be over and you can check out the next one.

There is the issue that good talks might not make it to the list and
that can be remedied by making people aware of this as early as
possible. 
        

-- 

From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com  Wed Apr 20 12:45:00 2011
From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 16:15:00 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Minutes of a meeting that took place today
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=T+xpG9RfinDFwURnR=m_+YiZpnQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimEOr4397=YtbhMT0osS3x1RSTSXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87y636z0pn.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=iW5YLB-Q6K9Fgq5Op3jofL967hg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=T+xpG9RfinDFwURnR=m_+YiZpnQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimUWrUn76-7cJf6tRE_2WgLyDRNkQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 7:25 AM, Anand Chitipothu <anandology at gmail.com>wrote:

> >>> * Participants will have to pay to attend tutorials
> >> Any decisions about the price?
> >
> > Its going to be nominal  ? 150 - 200 /- . No final decision is taken
> > on the exact amount.
> > The price is just to filter out the serious ones from the ones who
> > just dropping by.
>
> Noise can be filtered by the conference fee. I didn't understand why
> there is a need for additional filtration.
>
> Is it possible to attend the tutorials and not pay for the conference?
>

I don't recollect that we specifically discussed the overlap between the
conference and the tutorial fees. Thats something that will need to be
decided upon, and I can already see a few opinions on that topic in this
thread.

>
> Anand
> _______________________________________________
> Inpycon mailing list
> Inpycon at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/inpycon
>



-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://blog.dhananjaynene.com twitter: @dnene
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From anandology at gmail.com  Wed Apr 20 12:44:54 2011
From: anandology at gmail.com (Anand Chitipothu)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 16:14:54 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Minutes of a meeting that took place today
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimcuiJFYjeP+O45Y+3w_QCfoVoQCQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimEOr4397=YtbhMT0osS3x1RSTSXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87y636z0pn.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=iW5YLB-Q6K9Fgq5Op3jofL967hg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=T+xpG9RfinDFwURnR=m_+YiZpnQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<87sjtd8s34.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=QMSrMn=0mARYwFE8zyV_dM+H7ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimcuiJFYjeP+O45Y+3w_QCfoVoQCQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=WqZdzyN5hQKJSJ7y-JAkPr39rVQ@mail.gmail.com>

2011/4/20 Diptanu Choudhury <admin.nitjece at gmail.com>:
> +1 on 5 mins Lightning Talk. But Noufal, does it have to be impromptu ?
> How would you judge whether it is a good talk?

At US PyCon, there was an online registration for lightening talks and
that is open even after the conference started.

The coordinator of the lighting talks picked the talks in the order of
submission and asked the authors to submit slides. Only the people who
submitted the slides were given a slot to present.

Anand

From baiju.m.mail at gmail.com  Wed Apr 20 14:19:37 2011
From: baiju.m.mail at gmail.com (Baiju M)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 17:49:37 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Minutes of a meeting that took place today
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=WqZdzyN5hQKJSJ7y-JAkPr39rVQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimEOr4397=YtbhMT0osS3x1RSTSXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87y636z0pn.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=iW5YLB-Q6K9Fgq5Op3jofL967hg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=T+xpG9RfinDFwURnR=m_+YiZpnQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<87sjtd8s34.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=QMSrMn=0mARYwFE8zyV_dM+H7ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimcuiJFYjeP+O45Y+3w_QCfoVoQCQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=WqZdzyN5hQKJSJ7y-JAkPr39rVQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTim0N9gDA_BYu3ss4h=AbWgq=2=3GA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 4:14 PM, Anand Chitipothu <anandology at gmail.com> wrote:
> 2011/4/20 Diptanu Choudhury <admin.nitjece at gmail.com>:
>> +1 on 5 mins Lightning Talk. But Noufal, does it have to be impromptu ?
>> How would you judge whether it is a good talk?
>
> At US PyCon, there was an online registration for lightening talks and
> that is open even after the conference started.
>
> The coordinator of the lighting talks picked the talks in the order of
> submission and asked the authors to submit slides. Only the people who
> submitted the slides were given a slot to present.

It was a Google spreadsheet based form used for registration.
They made it available just few hours before the first lightning
talk session.

Those who registered got a BCC'ed mail like this:
(There is no confidential information here and I hope it will be useful,
 so I am sharing it here)

-------------x<---------------x<----------------x<------------------x<----------------x<-----------------
Hi everyone --

Thanks for signing up to give a lightning talk! Attached is the
schedule on which you can find when you're speaking. Find your name,
then read these notes:

* Please remember to show up 10 minutes before the LT session begins.
Please come to the front of the room and check in with me so I know
you're there.

* We typically *do* get to the first few folks in the overflow list,
so please come to every session you're on the list and would like to
speak at.

* If there are any problems or you need to cancel or something, email me.

* Remember: talks get 5 minutes, no more. I'll be timing you with a
very visible timer, and I *will* cut you off if/when time expires.

Good luck everyone -- I'm really looking forward to this!
-------------x<---------------x<----------------x<------------------x<----------------x<-----------------

The attachment contained all the talks registered with overflow list:

-------------x<---------------x<----------------x<------------------x<----------------x<-----------------
===============
Friday, 5:30 pm
===============

1 Jeff Daily - The Global Arrays Parallel Programming Toolkit
2 Matt Harrison - My insecurity problem
3 Pete Fein - Hacking for Freedom
4 Robert Brewer - logging.statistics (Sat AM)
5 Nathan Nichols - Lessons Learned Writing DSLs for Automated Content
  Generation (Sat PM)
6 Giles Thomas - Why Resolver switched from CPython to IronPython

Overflow
--------

7 Nate Aune - DjangoZoom
8 Grace Law - Get the job you want
9 Chris Boesch - Making Python Practice More Fun
10 Dino Viehland - Python tools for Visual Studio

=================
Saturday, 8:30 am
=================

1 Alfredo Deza - Faster VIM Python Editing
2 Dean Hall - Python-on-a-chip
3 Ned Batchelder - Cog will make you happy
4 Baiju Muthukaden - GetPython3.net
5 Brett Cannon - (Some of) your PSF money at work
6 Shai Ben-yehuda - Light weight UI

Overflow
--------

7 Nate Aune - DjangoZoom
8 Grace Law - Get the job you want

=================
Saturday, 5:30 pm
=================

1 Eric Holscher - Read the Docs
2 Phillip von Weitershausen - The English of Programming Languages
3 Barry Warsaw - flufl.i18n library
4 Aron Griffis - Window Manglement with Pywo
5 Henrique Bastos - Community Bootstrap
6 Josiah Carlson - Over-Engineering for Dummies

Overflow
--------

7 Byron Ruth - AudGenDB
8 Brian Jimwright - Pooter
9 Flaviu Simihaian - pyhaml
10 Grace Law - Get the job you want

===============
Sunday, 8:30 am
===============

1 Facundo Batista - Python Agentina (*)
2 Ed Abrams - Contagious ideas: a pep talk
3 Benoit Chesneau - Gunicorn
4 Shimon Rura - Improvised
5 Kapil Thangavelu - Taming Services in the Cloud

Overflow
--------

6 Whit Morriss - Sharing is caring, FOSS and Python at SurveyMonkey
7 Flaviu Simihaian - pyhaml
8 Grace Law - Get the job you want

===============
Sunday, 2:35 pm
===============

1 Pete Fein - Twiggy: A Pythonic Logger (Sat PM)
2 Remy DeCausemaker - FOSS at RIT:
3 Evgeny Fadeev - Askbot (Sat PM)
4 Larry Hastings - Minuteman
5 Jonathan Hartley - Make a game for PyWeek
6 Mike Pirnat - Win at parenting with Python
7 [RESERVED]
8 Gregory P. Smith - Protobufs for data storage and transport
9 Dan Bentley - 2to3 + MOE
10
11
12

Overflow
--------
-------------x<---------------x<----------------x<------------------x<----------------x<-----------------

I hope this will be useful to the Lightning talk coordinator.

Regards,
Baiju M

From vid at svaksha.com  Wed Apr 20 15:14:59 2011
From: vid at svaksha.com (=?UTF-8?B?4KWlIOCkuOCljeCkteCkleCljeCktyDgpaUg?=)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 13:14:59 +0000
Subject: [Inpycon] Tutorials
In-Reply-To: <1303257246.1942.89.camel@localhost>
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87fwppgomj.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=YGV=900toaq45WwBMWUQnzfTknA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87wrj1f8s8.fsf@gmail.com> <87k4ertpnk.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1303169512.1942.37.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTink9VP1EN=ZUvemsivuydtW3YZiKg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1303178653.1942.46.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTi=T6Ah5CrTp+Ga55ShifEV08XT6-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<984A3BD4-3832-4986-8191-AB41294BCFEE@holdenweb.com>
	<BANLkTim2_ngODHCJ7VaAFnwumKj+wDVB+Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<9EB18D0D-941A-4E89-B066-DE3D3BAC7F7D@holdenweb.com>
	<874o5u1kd9.fsf@gmail.com> <1303257246.1942.89.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinbC5uXQ0tF3gv8NhRQT_d2Zee9HA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 23:54, Kenneth Gonsalves <lawgon at gmail.com> wrote:
[...........]
> But the long term effect in terms of joining the community is not happening.

Why not ask those female students why they keep away from the (floss)
community. It would make interesting listening!  In general, I found
more female techies and more women attending events like barcamp
and/or the bi-weekly entrepreneur meets (despite it being held at
obscure venues every other week), than the local floss meetups. That
coupled with my personal experiences tells me a lot is amiss.

-- 
vid ? http://svaksha.com ?

From vid at svaksha.com  Wed Apr 20 15:18:13 2011
From: vid at svaksha.com (=?UTF-8?B?4KWlIOCkuOCljeCkteCkleCljeCktyDgpaUg?=)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 13:18:13 +0000
Subject: [Inpycon] Tutorials
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimuTYDSmA3+bqoi5=BGihufsMY4ng@mail.gmail.com>
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87fwppgomj.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=YGV=900toaq45WwBMWUQnzfTknA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87wrj1f8s8.fsf@gmail.com> <87k4ertpnk.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1303169512.1942.37.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTink9VP1EN=ZUvemsivuydtW3YZiKg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1303178653.1942.46.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTi=T6Ah5CrTp+Ga55ShifEV08XT6-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<984A3BD4-3832-4986-8191-AB41294BCFEE@holdenweb.com>
	<BANLkTim2_ngODHCJ7VaAFnwumKj+wDVB+Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<9EB18D0D-941A-4E89-B066-DE3D3BAC7F7D@holdenweb.com>
	<1303215666.1942.79.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTinU5j2Xwf6_bFoK3csQs0=PUfwBhA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimuTYDSmA3+bqoi5=BGihufsMY4ng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=10s9Gf0Y4yXqLUiPOBfuQi-u_wg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 04:19, Baishampayan Ghose <b.ghose at gmail.com> wrote:
> [OT] How exactly can companies hire more "female" devs? AFAIK,
> companies hire developers and not male and female developers
> separately.

Diversity isnt a goalpost everyone needs to aim for and I dont have a
magic answer for what is essentially internal company policy.

-- 
vid ? http://svaksha.com ?

From lawgon at gmail.com  Thu Apr 21 02:15:33 2011
From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 05:45:33 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Tutorials
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinbC5uXQ0tF3gv8NhRQT_d2Zee9HA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87fwppgomj.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=YGV=900toaq45WwBMWUQnzfTknA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87wrj1f8s8.fsf@gmail.com> <87k4ertpnk.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1303169512.1942.37.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTink9VP1EN=ZUvemsivuydtW3YZiKg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1303178653.1942.46.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTi=T6Ah5CrTp+Ga55ShifEV08XT6-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<984A3BD4-3832-4986-8191-AB41294BCFEE@holdenweb.com>
	<BANLkTim2_ngODHCJ7VaAFnwumKj+wDVB+Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<9EB18D0D-941A-4E89-B066-DE3D3BAC7F7D@holdenweb.com>
	<874o5u1kd9.fsf@gmail.com> <1303257246.1942.89.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTinbC5uXQ0tF3gv8NhRQT_d2Zee9HA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1303344933.1942.154.camel@localhost>

On Wed, 2011-04-20 at 13:14 +0000, ? ?????? ? wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 23:54, Kenneth Gonsalves <lawgon at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> [...........]
> > But the long term effect in terms of joining the community is not
> happening.
> 
> Why not ask those female students why they keep away from the (floss)
> community. It would make interesting listening!  In general, I found
> more female techies and more women attending events like barcamp
> and/or the bi-weekly entrepreneur meets (despite it being held at
> obscure venues every other week), than the local floss meetups. That
> coupled with my personal experiences tells me a lot is amiss. 

nothing is amiss. Men are famous for doing silly things like attending
and working for community events even at the risk of alienating their
families, losing their jobs, missing deadlines and risking their health.
Women are more practical.
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
http://lawgon.livejournal.com/


From admin.nitjece at gmail.com  Thu Apr 21 05:48:27 2011
From: admin.nitjece at gmail.com (Diptanu Choudhury)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 09:18:27 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Tutorials
In-Reply-To: <1303344933.1942.154.camel@localhost>
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87fwppgomj.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=YGV=900toaq45WwBMWUQnzfTknA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87wrj1f8s8.fsf@gmail.com> <87k4ertpnk.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1303169512.1942.37.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTink9VP1EN=ZUvemsivuydtW3YZiKg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1303178653.1942.46.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTi=T6Ah5CrTp+Ga55ShifEV08XT6-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<984A3BD4-3832-4986-8191-AB41294BCFEE@holdenweb.com>
	<BANLkTim2_ngODHCJ7VaAFnwumKj+wDVB+Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<9EB18D0D-941A-4E89-B066-DE3D3BAC7F7D@holdenweb.com>
	<874o5u1kd9.fsf@gmail.com> <1303257246.1942.89.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTinbC5uXQ0tF3gv8NhRQT_d2Zee9HA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1303344933.1942.154.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <BANLkTik3o9havVDGks40AMaJnfvzjxkJ0g@mail.gmail.com>

Words of wisdom from Kenneth! But very true :-)

On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 5:45 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves <lawgon at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 2011-04-20 at 13:14 +0000, ? ?????? ? wrote:
> > On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 23:54, Kenneth Gonsalves <lawgon at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > [...........]
> > > But the long term effect in terms of joining the community is not
> > happening.
> >
> > Why not ask those female students why they keep away from the (floss)
> > community. It would make interesting listening!  In general, I found
> > more female techies and more women attending events like barcamp
> > and/or the bi-weekly entrepreneur meets (despite it being held at
> > obscure venues every other week), than the local floss meetups. That
> > coupled with my personal experiences tells me a lot is amiss.
>
> nothing is amiss. Men are famous for doing silly things like attending
> and working for community events even at the risk of alienating their
> families, losing their jobs, missing deadlines and risking their health.
> Women are more practical.
> --
> regards
> Kenneth Gonsalves
> http://lawgon.livejournal.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Inpycon mailing list
> Inpycon at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/inpycon
>



-- 
Thanks,
Diptanu Choudhury
Mobile - +919686602153
Web - www.linkedin.com/in/diptanu
Twitter - @diptanu <http://twitter.com/diptanu>
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From vid at svaksha.com  Thu Apr 21 07:28:08 2011
From: vid at svaksha.com (=?UTF-8?B?4KWlIOCkuOCljeCkteCkleCljeCktyDgpaUg?=)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 05:28:08 +0000
Subject: [Inpycon] Tutorials
In-Reply-To: <1303344933.1942.154.camel@localhost>
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87fwppgomj.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=YGV=900toaq45WwBMWUQnzfTknA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87wrj1f8s8.fsf@gmail.com> <87k4ertpnk.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1303169512.1942.37.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTink9VP1EN=ZUvemsivuydtW3YZiKg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1303178653.1942.46.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTi=T6Ah5CrTp+Ga55ShifEV08XT6-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<984A3BD4-3832-4986-8191-AB41294BCFEE@holdenweb.com>
	<BANLkTim2_ngODHCJ7VaAFnwumKj+wDVB+Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<9EB18D0D-941A-4E89-B066-DE3D3BAC7F7D@holdenweb.com>
	<874o5u1kd9.fsf@gmail.com> <1303257246.1942.89.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTinbC5uXQ0tF3gv8NhRQT_d2Zee9HA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1303344933.1942.154.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimtrir72LPPZ_09dQvS6iiumZ_2Ug@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 00:15, Kenneth Gonsalves <lawgon at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> nothing is amiss. Men are famous for doing silly things like attending
> and working for community events even at the risk of alienating their
> families, losing their jobs, missing deadlines and risking their health.
> Women are more practical.

That sweeping generalization coupled with your dismissive attitude is
probably why the smart women attending your workshop makeup for 50% of
your class but dont want to stick around for more insults/dismissive
attitude from the community. Cant blame them for leaving, I'd too.
-- 
vid ? http://svaksha.com ?

From noufal at gmail.com  Thu Apr 21 07:38:08 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 11:08:08 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Tutorials
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimtrir72LPPZ_09dQvS6iiumZ_2Ug@mail.gmail.com>
	(=?utf-8?B?IuClpS4g4KS44KWN4KS14KSV4KWN4KS3CeClpS4iJ3M=?= message of
	"Thu, 21 Apr 2011 05:28:08 +0000")
References: <87ei5minuo.fsf@gmail.com> <87fwppgomj.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=YGV=900toaq45WwBMWUQnzfTknA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87wrj1f8s8.fsf@gmail.com> <87k4ertpnk.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1303169512.1942.37.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTink9VP1EN=ZUvemsivuydtW3YZiKg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1303178653.1942.46.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTi=T6Ah5CrTp+Ga55ShifEV08XT6-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<984A3BD4-3832-4986-8191-AB41294BCFEE@holdenweb.com>
	<BANLkTim2_ngODHCJ7VaAFnwumKj+wDVB+Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<9EB18D0D-941A-4E89-B066-DE3D3BAC7F7D@holdenweb.com>
	<874o5u1kd9.fsf@gmail.com> <1303257246.1942.89.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTinbC5uXQ0tF3gv8NhRQT_d2Zee9HA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1303344933.1942.154.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTimtrir72LPPZ_09dQvS6iiumZ_2Ug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87hb9s5flr.fsf@gmail.com>


This thread is for discussing the format and mode of the the
tutorials. It's not about diversity and so let's keep to the topic.

On Thu, Apr 21 2011, ? ?????? ? wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 00:15, Kenneth Gonsalves <lawgon at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> nothing is amiss. Men are famous for doing silly things like attending
>> and working for community events even at the risk of alienating their
>> families, losing their jobs, missing deadlines and risking their health.
>> Women are more practical.
>
> That sweeping generalization coupled with your dismissive attitude is
> probably why the smart women attending your workshop makeup for 50% of
> your class but dont want to stick around for more insults/dismissive
> attitude from the community. Cant blame them for leaving, I'd too.

-- 

From noufal at gmail.com  Thu Apr 21 10:14:31 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 13:44:31 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] When are we opening the CFP?
Message-ID: <87wrio3tso.fsf@gmail.com>


We need a hard date on this and have to clear up the business about
tutorial structure and format before then. 


-- 

From lawgon at gmail.com  Thu Apr 21 10:42:40 2011
From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 14:12:40 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] When are we opening the CFP?
In-Reply-To: <87wrio3tso.fsf@gmail.com>
References: <87wrio3tso.fsf@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1303375360.1942.181.camel@localhost>

On Thu, 2011-04-21 at 13:44 +0530, Noufal Ibrahim wrote:
> We need a hard date on this and have to clear up the business about
> tutorial structure and format before then. 

some one in Pune please pick up a phone and call Harshad about the
college policies (why is this taking so long)
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
http://lawgon.livejournal.com/


From navin at smriti.com  Thu Apr 21 11:00:28 2011
From: navin at smriti.com (Navin Kabra)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 14:30:28 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] When are we opening the CFP?
In-Reply-To: <87wrio3tso.fsf@gmail.com>
References: <87wrio3tso.fsf@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinit0c+67E+XCKOcU4orFM8tPa2Qg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 1:44 PM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com> wrote:

> We need a hard date on this and have to clear up the business about
> tutorial structure and format before then.
>

The venue itself has no restrictions, and they would be fine with paid
tutorials (i.e. tutorials in which the trainer gets paid).

So it is up to us to decide whether we want to do paid tutorials or
volunteer tutorials; and whether we're charging separately for those or it
is included in the conference fees.
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From anandology at gmail.com  Thu Apr 21 16:37:36 2011
From: anandology at gmail.com (Anand Chitipothu)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 20:07:36 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] When are we opening the CFP?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinit0c+67E+XCKOcU4orFM8tPa2Qg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <87wrio3tso.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinit0c+67E+XCKOcU4orFM8tPa2Qg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimhd1xS5_3doGzQYr0iqPPsa8hG_Q@mail.gmail.com>

2011/4/21 Navin Kabra <navin at smriti.com>:
> On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 1:44 PM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> We need a hard date on this and have to clear up the business about
>> tutorial structure and format before then.
>
> The venue itself has no restrictions, and they would be fine with paid
> tutorials (i.e. tutorials in which the trainer gets paid).
> So it is up to us to decide whether we want to do paid tutorials or
> volunteer tutorials; and whether we're charging separately for those or it
> is included in the conference fees.

We only need to decide whether or nor the trainers get pair or not.

The decision about mode of charging for tutorials can be made even
after the CFP is open.

Anand

From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com  Thu Apr 21 16:48:55 2011
From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 20:18:55 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] When are we opening the CFP?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimhd1xS5_3doGzQYr0iqPPsa8hG_Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <87wrio3tso.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinit0c+67E+XCKOcU4orFM8tPa2Qg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimhd1xS5_3doGzQYr0iqPPsa8hG_Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=zzP47VyNSna8kb2uas0+RO33m_w@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 8:07 PM, Anand Chitipothu <anandology at gmail.com>wrote:

> 2011/4/21 Navin Kabra <navin at smriti.com>:
> > On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 1:44 PM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> We need a hard date on this and have to clear up the business about
> >> tutorial structure and format before then.
> >
> > The venue itself has no restrictions, and they would be fine with paid
> > tutorials (i.e. tutorials in which the trainer gets paid).
> > So it is up to us to decide whether we want to do paid tutorials or
> > volunteer tutorials; and whether we're charging separately for those or
> it
> > is included in the conference fees.
>
> We only need to decide whether or nor the trainers get pair or not.
>
> The decision about mode of charging for tutorials can be made even
> after the CFP is open.
>

Not sure if I understand. I think Navin was responding from a venue and
venue policy perspective.

What I do not understand is why (if that was implied) we would need to
decide on whether trainers get paid anytime soon? My working assumption is
that we will try to get sufficient volunteers to conduct the training. At
this moment I believe there are now 4 (counting Noufal's offer the other
day). So unless we find ourselves uncomfortably placed I think we should
continue with volunteer trainees which was unless I stand corrected also
reflected in the discussion between Ramki / BG / self mailed out to the
group as well.

Do let me know if there is something I either missed out or misunderstood.

Dhananjay

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://blog.dhananjaynene.com twitter: @dnene
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From rmathews at gmail.com  Thu Apr 21 17:39:17 2011
From: rmathews at gmail.com (Roshan Mathews)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 21:09:17 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] When are we opening the CFP?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=zzP47VyNSna8kb2uas0+RO33m_w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <87wrio3tso.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinit0c+67E+XCKOcU4orFM8tPa2Qg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimhd1xS5_3doGzQYr0iqPPsa8hG_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=zzP47VyNSna8kb2uas0+RO33m_w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimaOGWLW20v1BPMiBSQUO7QfRQzXA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 20:18, Dhananjay Nene <dhananjay.nene at gmail.com> wrote:
> What I do not understand is why (if that was implied) we would need to
> decide on whether trainers get paid anytime soon? My working assumption is
> that we will try to get sufficient volunteers to conduct the training. At
> this moment I believe there are now 4 (counting Noufal's offer the other
> day). So unless we find ourselves uncomfortably placed I think we should
> continue with volunteer trainees which was unless I stand corrected also
> reflected in the discussion between Ramki / BG / self mailed out to the
> group as well.
>
> Do let me know if there is something I either missed out or misunderstood.

I guess people missed that in that minutes-of-the-meeting mail.
Anyways, we just wanted a decision to be made, either way.  :)


-- 
http://about.me/rosh

From noufal at gmail.com  Fri Apr 22 07:01:35 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 10:31:35 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] When are we opening the CFP?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimaOGWLW20v1BPMiBSQUO7QfRQzXA@mail.gmail.com> (Roshan
	Mathews's message of "Thu, 21 Apr 2011 21:09:17 +0530")
References: <87wrio3tso.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinit0c+67E+XCKOcU4orFM8tPa2Qg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimhd1xS5_3doGzQYr0iqPPsa8hG_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=zzP47VyNSna8kb2uas0+RO33m_w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimaOGWLW20v1BPMiBSQUO7QfRQzXA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87r58uswuo.fsf@gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 21 2011, Roshan Mathews wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 20:18, Dhananjay Nene <dhananjay.nene at gmail.com> wrote:
>> What I do not understand is why (if that was implied) we would need to
>> decide on whether trainers get paid anytime soon? My working assumption is
>> that we will try to get sufficient volunteers to conduct the training. At
>> this moment I believe there are now 4 (counting Noufal's offer the other
>> day). So unless we find ourselves uncomfortably placed I think we should
>> continue with volunteer trainees which was unless I stand corrected also
>> reflected in the discussion between Ramki / BG / self mailed out to the
>> group as well.
>>
>> Do let me know if there is something I either missed out or misunderstood.
>
> I guess people missed that in that minutes-of-the-meeting mail.
> Anyways, we just wanted a decision to be made, either way.  :)

When we send out the CFP, it should be clear on it whether trainers are
getting paid or not.

Also, I don't see a point in postponing the decision about asking
delegates to pay for tutorials. We should decide that soon and close
this thread. This is taking too long.


-- 

From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com  Fri Apr 22 07:17:11 2011
From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 10:47:11 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] When are we opening the CFP?
In-Reply-To: <87r58uswuo.fsf@gmail.com>
References: <87wrio3tso.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinit0c+67E+XCKOcU4orFM8tPa2Qg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimhd1xS5_3doGzQYr0iqPPsa8hG_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=zzP47VyNSna8kb2uas0+RO33m_w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimaOGWLW20v1BPMiBSQUO7QfRQzXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87r58uswuo.fsf@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTik7P=bCNpQtGHmjOztgwp=xnmWrgw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 10:31 AM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 21 2011, Roshan Mathews wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 20:18, Dhananjay Nene <dhananjay.nene at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> What I do not understand is why (if that was implied) we would need to
> >> decide on whether trainers get paid anytime soon? My working assumption
> is
> >> that we will try to get sufficient volunteers to conduct the training.
> At
> >> this moment I believe there are now 4 (counting Noufal's offer the other
> >> day). So unless we find ourselves uncomfortably placed I think we should
> >> continue with volunteer trainees which was unless I stand corrected also
> >> reflected in the discussion between Ramki / BG / self mailed out to the
> >> group as well.
> >>
> >> Do let me know if there is something I either missed out or
> misunderstood.
> >
> > I guess people missed that in that minutes-of-the-meeting mail.
> > Anyways, we just wanted a decision to be made, either way.  :)
>
> When we send out the CFP, it should be clear on it whether trainers are
> getting paid or not.
>
> If the decision is to be taken soon, I would lean strongly towards trainers
not getting paid.


> Also, I don't see a point in postponing the decision about asking
> delegates to pay for tutorials. We should decide that soon and close
> this thread. This is taking too long.
>

This is not being postponed. Lets work this out over the next few days.
Right now the AWS downtime has been a priority since yesterday afternoon for
me at least (and I suspect for some others too). Let me get this resolved
ASAP but today's not a good day to focus on the same.



>
>
> --
> _______________________________________________
> Inpycon mailing list
> Inpycon at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/inpycon
>



-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://blog.dhananjaynene.com twitter: @dnene
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From rmathews at gmail.com  Fri Apr 22 07:52:37 2011
From: rmathews at gmail.com (Roshan Mathews)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 11:22:37 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] When are we opening the CFP?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTik7P=bCNpQtGHmjOztgwp=xnmWrgw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <87wrio3tso.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinit0c+67E+XCKOcU4orFM8tPa2Qg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimhd1xS5_3doGzQYr0iqPPsa8hG_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=zzP47VyNSna8kb2uas0+RO33m_w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimaOGWLW20v1BPMiBSQUO7QfRQzXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87r58uswuo.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik7P=bCNpQtGHmjOztgwp=xnmWrgw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=yzr2j8Mk3o9HY0N3Bj1MDrdCZOA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 10:47, Dhananjay Nene <dhananjay.nene at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 10:31 AM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Also, I don't see a point in postponing the decision about asking
>> delegates to pay for tutorials. We should decide that soon and close
>> this thread. This is taking too long.
>
> This is not being postponed. Lets work this out over the next few days.
> Right now the AWS downtime has been a priority since yesterday afternoon for
> me at least (and I suspect for some others too). Let me get this resolved
> ASAP but today's not a good day to focus on the same.
>
Okay, I misread your last mail.  I thought you did take the decision
to go with volunteer trainers.  I guess you (or the Pune team) will be
deciding after you deal with the AWS outage.  It will have to be
decided though, unless you want to end up with some paid tutorials and
some free ones.  Or you'll be telling the volunteers to prepare notes
and get paid for it, which they might not be happy about.  So it is
the indecision which is the issue, either of the options would work
for the conference.


-- 
http://about.me/rosh

From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com  Fri Apr 22 08:46:43 2011
From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 12:16:43 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] When are we opening the CFP?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=yzr2j8Mk3o9HY0N3Bj1MDrdCZOA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <87wrio3tso.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinit0c+67E+XCKOcU4orFM8tPa2Qg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimhd1xS5_3doGzQYr0iqPPsa8hG_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=zzP47VyNSna8kb2uas0+RO33m_w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimaOGWLW20v1BPMiBSQUO7QfRQzXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87r58uswuo.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik7P=bCNpQtGHmjOztgwp=xnmWrgw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=yzr2j8Mk3o9HY0N3Bj1MDrdCZOA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTik-D8mjWJr_4To7rvcjNSLMscKb1w@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 11:22 AM, Roshan Mathews <rmathews at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 10:47, Dhananjay Nene <dhananjay.nene at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> Okay, I misread your last mail.  I thought you did take the decision
> to go with volunteer trainers.  [.....] It will have to be
> decided though, unless you want to end up with some paid tutorials and
> some free ones.  Or you'll be telling the volunteers to prepare notes
> and get paid for it, which they might not be happy about.  So it is
> the indecision which is the issue, either of the options would work
> for the conference.
>
> There's a fine line I could help clarify. We all seem to be in favour of
having volunteer trainers. If pushed into a decision thats probably a
decision I would favour. There's only a trivial job of finding sufficient
volunteers. At last count there were 4. If we get more that just makes the
decision so much easier.

I prefer to sometimes delay specifically flagging off a clear intent as a
decision until whats termed as the Last Responsible Moment. I was unaware
that the CFP issuance would be that moment and shall seek to get that
clarified later. Thats probably resulting in the ambiguity that you are
feeling - the indecision you referred to. I hope that is clarified.

I also strongly believe that either all should get paid or no one should get
paid - equal policy for all tutorial conductors. I am not sure if volunteers
would mind it if later on it was communicated that they would be getting
paid .. but I could stand surprised on that one.

Dhananjay

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://blog.dhananjaynene.com twitter: @dnene
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From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com  Fri Apr 22 08:47:40 2011
From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 12:17:40 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] When are we opening the CFP?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTik-D8mjWJr_4To7rvcjNSLMscKb1w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <87wrio3tso.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinit0c+67E+XCKOcU4orFM8tPa2Qg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimhd1xS5_3doGzQYr0iqPPsa8hG_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=zzP47VyNSna8kb2uas0+RO33m_w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimaOGWLW20v1BPMiBSQUO7QfRQzXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87r58uswuo.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik7P=bCNpQtGHmjOztgwp=xnmWrgw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=yzr2j8Mk3o9HY0N3Bj1MDrdCZOA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik-D8mjWJr_4To7rvcjNSLMscKb1w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=4t0iH6PRG=V272jXezR-NyDc_4w@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 12:16 PM, Dhananjay Nene
<dhananjay.nene at gmail.com>wrote:

>
> On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 11:22 AM, Roshan Mathews <rmathews at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 10:47, Dhananjay Nene <dhananjay.nene at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> Okay, I misread your last mail.  I thought you did take the decision
>> to go with volunteer trainers.  [.....] It will have to be
>>
>> decided though, unless you want to end up with some paid tutorials and
>> some free ones.  Or you'll be telling the volunteers to prepare notes
>> and get paid for it, which they might not be happy about.  So it is
>> the indecision which is the issue, either of the options would work
>> for the conference.
>>
>> There's a fine line I could help clarify. We all seem to be in favour of
> having volunteer trainers. If pushed into a decision thats probably a
> decision I would favour. There's only a trivial job of finding sufficient
> volunteers.
>
In interest of abundant caution - that "trivial" usage was sarcasm.


> At last count there were 4. If we get more that just makes the decision so
> much easier.
>
> I prefer to sometimes delay specifically flagging off a clear intent as a
> decision until whats termed as the Last Responsible Moment. I was unaware
> that the CFP issuance would be that moment and shall seek to get that
> clarified later. Thats probably resulting in the ambiguity that you are
> feeling - the indecision you referred to. I hope that is clarified.
>
> I also strongly believe that either all should get paid or no one should
> get paid - equal policy for all tutorial conductors. I am not sure if
> volunteers would mind it if later on it was communicated that they would be
> getting paid .. but I could stand surprised on that one.
>
> Dhananjay
>
> --
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> http://blog.dhananjaynene.com twitter: @dnene
>
>


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://blog.dhananjaynene.com twitter: @dnene
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From noufal at gmail.com  Fri Apr 22 09:03:58 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 12:33:58 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] When are we opening the CFP?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTik-D8mjWJr_4To7rvcjNSLMscKb1w@mail.gmail.com> (Dhananjay
	Nene's message of "Fri, 22 Apr 2011 12:16:43 +0530")
References: <87wrio3tso.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinit0c+67E+XCKOcU4orFM8tPa2Qg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimhd1xS5_3doGzQYr0iqPPsa8hG_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=zzP47VyNSna8kb2uas0+RO33m_w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimaOGWLW20v1BPMiBSQUO7QfRQzXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87r58uswuo.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik7P=bCNpQtGHmjOztgwp=xnmWrgw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=yzr2j8Mk3o9HY0N3Bj1MDrdCZOA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik-D8mjWJr_4To7rvcjNSLMscKb1w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87hb9qsr6p.fsf@gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 22 2011, Dhananjay Nene wrote:


[...]

> I prefer to sometimes delay specifically flagging off a clear intent
> as a decision until whats termed as the Last Responsible Moment. I was
> unaware that the CFP issuance would be that moment and shall seek to
> get that clarified later. Thats probably resulting in the ambiguity
> that you are feeling - the indecision you referred to. I hope that is
> clarified.

[...]

I think it makes sense to *decide* on all details of the talks before
the CFP is publicised. We're already late on that front (this was a
complaint last year as well) so this needs to be expedited. 



-- 

From rmathews at gmail.com  Fri Apr 22 09:28:34 2011
From: rmathews at gmail.com (Roshan Mathews)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 12:58:34 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] When are we opening the CFP?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTik-D8mjWJr_4To7rvcjNSLMscKb1w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <87wrio3tso.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinit0c+67E+XCKOcU4orFM8tPa2Qg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimhd1xS5_3doGzQYr0iqPPsa8hG_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=zzP47VyNSna8kb2uas0+RO33m_w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimaOGWLW20v1BPMiBSQUO7QfRQzXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87r58uswuo.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik7P=bCNpQtGHmjOztgwp=xnmWrgw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=yzr2j8Mk3o9HY0N3Bj1MDrdCZOA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik-D8mjWJr_4To7rvcjNSLMscKb1w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=ZWoOC8BPj_ZQH9ubw62fMB6oeKg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 12:16, Dhananjay Nene <dhananjay.nene at gmail.com> wrote:
> I prefer to sometimes delay specifically flagging off a clear intent as a
> decision until whats termed as the Last Responsible Moment. I was unaware
> that the CFP issuance would be that moment and shall seek to get that
> clarified later. Thats probably resulting in the ambiguity that you are
> feeling - the indecision you referred to. I hope that is clarified.
>
Fair enough, I was just curious to what you were thinking.  Glad you
explained your thinking, deferring decisions seems okay if we're clear
about it.

> I also strongly believe that either all should get paid or no one should get
> paid - equal policy for all tutorial conductors. I am not sure if volunteers
> would mind it if later on it was communicated that they would be getting
> paid .. but I could stand surprised on that one.
>
I might be wrong, but what I was thinking was that there will be lots
of volunteers to take tutorials, but the difference between a
volunteer tutorial and a paid one isn't just the money involved. So if
you change somewhere down the line, people who volunteered a few hours
of their time, now will have the responsibility of organizing
materials, notes etc. which they might not have planned to do earlier
on.  But like I said, I might be very wrong.

If everyone is more comfortable with the idea of volunteer tutorials,
I'd suggest (again, it's your call of course) that we just go with
that.  If things work out great, fantastic, we've learned first hand
that it can be done.  If not, with the two year cycle, Pune gets
another shot at trying out tutorials.  Win-win.

-- 
http://about.me/rosh

From satyaakam at gmail.com  Sun Apr 24 19:59:37 2011
From: satyaakam at gmail.com (satyaakam goswami)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 23:29:37 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Sponsorship tiers
Message-ID: <BANLkTinHHwXmnv9Xb4mzB2Hab7E29d+kUg@mail.gmail.com>

What are the sponsorship tiers this year are we still sticking to the same
as last year http://in.pycon.org/2010/sponsors , i need info to start
talking to people around .


-Satya
fossevents.in
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From noufal at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 10:38:08 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 14:08:08 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] When are we opening the CFP?
In-Reply-To: <87wrio3tso.fsf@gmail.com> (Noufal Ibrahim's message of "Thu, 21
	Apr 2011 13:44:31 +0530")
References: <87wrio3tso.fsf@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <874o5mg1zj.fsf@gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 21 2011, Noufal Ibrahim wrote:

> We need a hard date on this and have to clear up the business about
> tutorial structure and format before then.

Any decisions made/opinions stated about this? 


-- 

From noufal at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 10:37:07 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 14:07:07 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Sponsorship prospectus.
Message-ID: <87ei4qg218.fsf@gmail.com>


Attached is the sponsorship prospectus with the dates.


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-- 

From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 12:03:23 2011
From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 15:33:23 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] When are we opening the CFP?
In-Reply-To: <874o5mg1zj.fsf@gmail.com>
References: <87wrio3tso.fsf@gmail.com>
	<874o5mg1zj.fsf@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinsqAQfbbCQYTSG2aW8=fn3gVaJzA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 2:08 PM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 21 2011, Noufal Ibrahim wrote:
>
> > We need a hard date on this and have to clear up the business about
> > tutorial structure and format before then.
>
> Any decisions made/opinions stated about this?
>
>
> There are two subthreads here and people have voiced opinions about them:

a) Should tutors be paid : As per the earlier discussions we had preferred
not to. Unless there are strong voices otherwise let us go ahead with that
as the decision. We'll have to work on finding more volunteers.

Let me ensure that I clarify the expected output of such a volunteer driven
course. The course content should be professional, something that students
can carry back from the tutorials or others can read off the net and at
least reasonably follow with some effort from their side. It is not just a
high level set of bullet points. I would imagine it would take at least 2
days dedicated effort to prepare a 3 hour session.

We need to work out the structure of the tutorials and I shall get a thread
started so that we can work out the same and have that clarified.

b) Tutorial Fees / Conference fees : I don't have a strong opinion here, but
I'm going to voice an opinion suggesting that Conference fees should be the
only fees and no specific tutorial fees. There was no specific decision on
this matter earlier. This matter is still treated as largely open with a
decision to be made by thursday midnight based on the opinions voiced.

Dhananjay

--
> _______________________________________________
> Inpycon mailing list
> Inpycon at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/inpycon
>



-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://blog.dhananjaynene.com twitter: @dnene
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From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 12:09:17 2011
From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 15:39:17 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] FYI. On vacation
Message-ID: <BANLkTikUo8pb-5rXSv4bYTXkguwCCNWpbw@mail.gmail.com>

I shall be on vacation starting the coming Friday night thru May 16th. I am
likely to be monitoring mails sporadically and shall be largely extracting
myself away from work and all non personal tasks during that duration.

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://blog.dhananjaynene.com twitter: @dnene
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From noufal at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 12:27:07 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 15:57:07 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] FYI. On vacation
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikUo8pb-5rXSv4bYTXkguwCCNWpbw@mail.gmail.com> (Dhananjay
	Nene's message of "Mon, 25 Apr 2011 15:39:17 +0530")
References: <BANLkTikUo8pb-5rXSv4bYTXkguwCCNWpbw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87wriieidg.fsf@gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 25 2011, Dhananjay Nene wrote:

> I shall be on vacation starting the coming Friday night thru May 16th. I am
> likely to be monitoring mails sporadically and shall be largely extracting
> myself away from work and all non personal tasks during that duration.

Is there anyone else in Pune who can take over while you're away and
keep things going? 2 weeks is quite a bit of time and we're already
behind in putting the CFP out.

-- 

From noufal at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 12:30:33 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 16:00:33 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] When are we opening the CFP?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinsqAQfbbCQYTSG2aW8=fn3gVaJzA@mail.gmail.com> (Dhananjay
	Nene's message of "Mon, 25 Apr 2011 15:33:23 +0530")
References: <87wrio3tso.fsf@gmail.com> <874o5mg1zj.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinsqAQfbbCQYTSG2aW8=fn3gVaJzA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87oc3uei7q.fsf@gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 25 2011, Dhananjay Nene wrote:

[...]

> a) Should tutors be paid : As per the earlier discussions we had preferred
> not to. Unless there are strong voices otherwise let us go ahead with that
> as the decision. We'll have to work on finding more volunteers.
>
> Let me ensure that I clarify the expected output of such a volunteer driven
> course. The course content should be professional, something that students
> can carry back from the tutorials or others can read off the net and at
> least reasonably follow with some effort from their side. It is not just a
> high level set of bullet points. I would imagine it would take at least 2
> days dedicated effort to prepare a 3 hour session.
>
> We need to work out the structure of the tutorials and I shall get a thread
> started so that we can work out the same and have that clarified.

Excellent. I presume there will be someone "in charge" of the
tutorials. i.e. Making sure that good quality materials are received in
advance etc.


> b) Tutorial Fees / Conference fees : I don't have a strong opinion
> here, but I'm going to voice an opinion suggesting that Conference
> fees should be the only fees and no specific tutorial fees. There was
> no specific decision on this matter earlier. This matter is still
> treated as largely open with a decision to be made by thursday
> midnight based on the opinions voiced.

We'll have to clarify how people can register for these then. First come
first serve is an option. We'll also have to cap attendance if we want
the people who do attend to get something out of this. I think the
website will need some enhancements as well to accommodate this. 

[...]


-- 

From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 12:37:14 2011
From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 16:07:14 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] FYI. On vacation
In-Reply-To: <87wriieidg.fsf@gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikUo8pb-5rXSv4bYTXkguwCCNWpbw@mail.gmail.com>
	<87wriieidg.fsf@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=bYLeena+zDd9canQDdXotfj=O-w@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 3:57 PM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 25 2011, Dhananjay Nene wrote:
>
> > I shall be on vacation starting the coming Friday night thru May 16th. I
> am
> > likely to be monitoring mails sporadically and shall be largely
> extracting
> > myself away from work and all non personal tasks during that duration.
>
> Is there anyone else in Pune who can take over while you're away and
> keep things going? 2 weeks is quite a bit of time and we're already
> behind in putting the CFP out.
>
> Specifically on the matter of CFP, BG and Ramki from Pune have already been
working on the matter and we did discuss we'll try to get it out by 26th.
I'll touch base again with them to help bring the matter to a closure
hopefully before I leave, though I'm sure some continuing activities will be
there on the front which they will continue with. With regards to topics
related to venue Navin, and Harshad have already been working on the same so
they should be able to respond as necessary. I haven't actively pursued the
sponsorship thread within Pune yet which I intend to do once I am back.  I
think should it require any active intervention beyond these topics, I think
the team should be able to come together quickly to do the needful. Given
that this is the prime time for vacations, I wouldn't be surprised if some
others have also made plans for vacations.

--
> _______________________________________________
> Inpycon mailing list
> Inpycon at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/inpycon
>



-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://blog.dhananjaynene.com twitter: @dnene
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From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 12:39:07 2011
From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 16:09:07 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] When are we opening the CFP?
In-Reply-To: <87oc3uei7q.fsf@gmail.com>
References: <87wrio3tso.fsf@gmail.com> <874o5mg1zj.fsf@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinsqAQfbbCQYTSG2aW8=fn3gVaJzA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87oc3uei7q.fsf@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimkzgTU-d6gBf8zhHcFksVCLd4wjw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 4:00 PM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 25 2011, Dhananjay Nene wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > a) Should tutors be paid : As per the earlier discussions we had
> preferred
> > not to. Unless there are strong voices otherwise let us go ahead with
> that
> > as the decision. We'll have to work on finding more volunteers.
> >
> > Let me ensure that I clarify the expected output of such a volunteer
> driven
> > course. The course content should be professional, something that
> students
> > can carry back from the tutorials or others can read off the net and at
> > least reasonably follow with some effort from their side. It is not just
> a
> > high level set of bullet points. I would imagine it would take at least 2
> > days dedicated effort to prepare a 3 hour session.
> >
> > We need to work out the structure of the tutorials and I shall get a
> thread
> > started so that we can work out the same and have that clarified.
>
> Excellent. I presume there will be someone "in charge" of the
> tutorials. i.e. Making sure that good quality materials are received in
> advance etc.
>
> I can undertake that unless there are other volunteers for the same.

>
> > b) Tutorial Fees / Conference fees : I don't have a strong opinion
> > here, but I'm going to voice an opinion suggesting that Conference
> > fees should be the only fees and no specific tutorial fees. There was
> > no specific decision on this matter earlier. This matter is still
> > treated as largely open with a decision to be made by thursday
> > midnight based on the opinions voiced.
>
> We'll have to clarify how people can register for these then. First come
> first serve is an option. We'll also have to cap attendance if we want
> the people who do attend to get something out of this. I think the
> website will need some enhancements as well to accommodate this.
>
> [...]
>
>
> --
> _______________________________________________
> Inpycon mailing list
> Inpycon at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/inpycon
>



-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://blog.dhananjaynene.com twitter: @dnene
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From b.ghose at gmail.com  Wed Apr 27 06:25:21 2011
From: b.ghose at gmail.com (Baishampayan Ghose)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 09:55:21 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] CfP Checklist
Message-ID: <BANLkTinQ8as14iMWP1v5iqvBOMkMUAWWDg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

What do we need to do to get the CfP out by today / tomorrow?

If we have a list of items, we can finish them off one by one and get
done with it. Are the HasGeek / paid tutorial issues blockers?

Regards,
BG

-- 
Baishampayan Ghose
b.ghose at gmail.com

From lawgon at gmail.com  Wed Apr 27 06:42:04 2011
From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 10:12:04 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] CfP Checklist
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinQ8as14iMWP1v5iqvBOMkMUAWWDg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinQ8as14iMWP1v5iqvBOMkMUAWWDg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1303879324.1942.301.camel@localhost>

On Wed, 2011-04-27 at 09:55 +0530, Baishampayan Ghose wrote:
> If we have a list of items, we can finish them off one by one and get
> done with it. Are the HasGeek / paid tutorial issues blockers? 

hasgeek is not, paid tutorial is.
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
http://lawgon.livejournal.com/


From noufal at gmail.com  Wed Apr 27 06:53:11 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 10:23:11 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] CfP Checklist
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinQ8as14iMWP1v5iqvBOMkMUAWWDg@mail.gmail.com>
	(Baishampayan Ghose's message of "Wed, 27 Apr 2011 09:55:21 +0530")
References: <BANLkTinQ8as14iMWP1v5iqvBOMkMUAWWDg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <874o5k8fd4.fsf@gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 27 2011, Baishampayan Ghose wrote:

> Hello,
>
> What do we need to do to get the CfP out by today / tomorrow?

Off the cuff
- Tutorials (paid/unpaid and also whether participants have to pay
  separately for them).
- Website enhancements to handle tutorials.

Anand Pillai had sent out a checklist a while ago. 

The HasGeek issue is orthogonal to this. 

[...]


-- 

From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com  Wed Apr 27 07:00:18 2011
From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (=?utf-8?B?RGhhbmFuamF5IE5lbmU=?=)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 10:30:18 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] =?utf-8?q?CfP_Checklist?=
Message-ID: <4db7a2e9.6237440a.0ec0.17d3@mx.google.com>

What's hasgeek have to do with the cfp? 

Sent from my HTC Android

----- Reply message -----
From: "Baishampayan Ghose" <b.ghose at gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Apr 27, 2011 9:55 am
Subject: [Inpycon] CfP Checklist
To: "Mailing list for the PyCon India conference" <inpycon at python.org>

Hello,

What do we need to do to get the CfP out by today / tomorrow?

If we have a list of items, we can finish them off one by one and get
done with it. Are the HasGeek / paid tutorial issues blockers?

Regards,
BG

-- 
Baishampayan Ghose
b.ghose at gmail.com
_______________________________________________
Inpycon mailing list
Inpycon at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/inpycon
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From b.ghose at gmail.com  Wed Apr 27 07:05:57 2011
From: b.ghose at gmail.com (Baishampayan Ghose)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 10:35:57 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] CfP Checklist
In-Reply-To: <1303879324.1942.301.camel@localhost>
References: <BANLkTinQ8as14iMWP1v5iqvBOMkMUAWWDg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1303879324.1942.301.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=ik+rKF2hi5WWs5HMrEDb2OpMONw@mail.gmail.com>

> On Wed, 2011-04-27 at 09:55 +0530, Baishampayan Ghose wrote:
>> If we have a list of items, we can finish them off one by one and get
>> done with it. Are the HasGeek / paid tutorial issues blockers?
>
> hasgeek is not, paid tutorial is.

Great, so can we reach some sort of consensus about the paid tutorial
issue today?

Regards,
BG

-- 
Baishampayan Ghose
b.ghose at gmail.com

From noufal at gmail.com  Wed Apr 27 07:26:52 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 10:56:52 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] CfP Checklist
In-Reply-To: <4db7a2e9.6237440a.0ec0.17d3@mx.google.com> (Dhananjay Nene's
	message of "Wed, 27 Apr 2011 10:30:18 +0530")
References: <4db7a2e9.6237440a.0ec0.17d3@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <87oc3s6z8j.fsf@gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 27 2011, Dhananjay Nene wrote:

> What's hasgeek have to do with the cfp? 

[...]

Nothing. Just a minor confusion.
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From noufal at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 07:37:21 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 11:07:21 +0530
Subject: [Inpycon] Zed won't be able to make it.
Message-ID: <874o5j6ini.fsf@gmail.com>


I just got an email from Zed today. He won't be able to make it for the
conference due to his day job.

I'll keep the list posted on developments. 

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