From Irv at furrypants.com  Wed Jan  1 21:14:30 2020
From: Irv at furrypants.com (Irv Kalb)
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2020 18:14:30 -0800
Subject: [Idle-dev] Initial Window Focus (was: Re: Wishlist: Make
 executables + startup option)
In-Reply-To: <CALWZvp6XAfE0iLgJQ+vvpepPit8jwr1e0nBaBKb8qgwJTG-vQQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAK5AppNBhOH_Br8kvt9x9mr3YsP9W218R_pMMCaT0jCCqNdQLA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALWZvp6XAfE0iLgJQ+vvpepPit8jwr1e0nBaBKb8qgwJTG-vQQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2CEF6F4E-3358-4B07-B5FA-04FF65CFBF90@furrypants.com>


> On Dec 31, 2019, at 10:45 AM, Tal Einat <taleinat at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi David,
> 
> I'm very happy that you and your son are finding IDLE useful for learning programming with Python!
> 
> On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 8:22 PM David <david.lindhe at gmail.com <mailto:david.lindhe at gmail.com>> wrote:
> I have two things I would like to see in future versions:
> 
> 1. The ability to build executables directly from IDLE
>     -- pyinstaller works on my sons Win10 system, but is a bit hard to install. On my Linux Mint 19.3 system, pyinstaller is easily installed, but does not make functioning executables. It would be very nice to have this feature in IDLE, as it would make it a more complete IDE.
> 
> With IDLE being part of the Python standard library, it can't depend on other modules in standard library, and there are no such tools in the stdlib. I also don't foresee something like that being added to the stdlib any time soon.
> 
> This would be a great IDLE extension through! If you, or anyone else, would like to take this up as a project, I'd be happy to provide guidance and support.
>  
> 2. A startup option to open both Editor and Shell side by side, full extent.
> 
> This is the first time someone has asked for this, as far as I know. You're welcome to open an issue on bugs.python.org <http://bugs.python.org/> with this suggestion, where it can be further discussed and worked on.
> 
> I personally think it would be unlikely for this to be added, since it appears to be a rather minor convenience, but at the same time depending on the quirks of OS window managers, which tend to change over time and cause lots of maintenance headaches. On the other hand, sometimes it's possible to come up with an alternative feature which would provide similar benefits.
> 
> BTW, have you tried hacking this up with an external tool, e.g. AutoHotKey for Windows?
> 
> - Tal Einat
> _______________________________________________

Hi Tal,

I use IDLE in all the Python classes I teach.  It's great for beginning students.  

With regard to the second item above, I would like to point out something odd, and request a hopefully minor change in IDLE. I am using IDLE 3.7.3 (with Python 3.7.3) on a Mac.  I have my Mac set up so that when I double-click on a Python source file, IDLE opens.  When I double-click on a Python file in the Finder, both the Shell and the source file open in separate windows.  However, when this happens, the Shell is given focus, then the source file opens (often covering the Shell window).  Therefore, I must click on the source file window to give it keyboard focus before I can run or edit the file.

I think it would be more appropriate to give focus to the chosen source file window instead.  My thinking is that if I select a Python file that I want to edit or run, then the window associated with that file should be given initial focus rather than the Shell window.

(FYI:  If IDLE is already open, and I go to the Mac Finder and double-click on another Python file, then that file opens in IDLE and *is* given focus.)


My use case might be slightly different than most because I do a lot of grading of student homework files.  I will typically download a student's assignment, double-click on it, and press F5 to run it - and nothing happens.  That's because the Shell has focus instead of the student's file.  I find myself running into this (seemingly minor problem) multiple times every day.  If it is a simple change to give focus to the selected Python source file, I would greatly appreciate it.

(If you would like me to fill out a bug report for this, I would be glad to do that.)

Irv
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From segurecalde at gmail.com  Thu Jan  9 09:08:07 2020
From: segurecalde at gmail.com (Segundo Recalde)
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2020 11:08:07 -0300
Subject: [Idle-dev] help
Message-ID: <CAFOACdAqJ1KJ6_gwj7EKTsjx77ztrQifdPT26Gt1KkyR2BBTug@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,
I'm having trouble deleting the python IDLE. I managed to delete everything
but the 'about IDLE 3.8.1 (64 bit)' menu. I'm currently using a macbook pro
(mac OS Catalina).

Help would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you for your time
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From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Jan 11 13:08:00 2020
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 13:08:00 -0500
Subject: [Idle-dev] help
In-Reply-To: <CAFOACdAqJ1KJ6_gwj7EKTsjx77ztrQifdPT26Gt1KkyR2BBTug@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFOACdAqJ1KJ6_gwj7EKTsjx77ztrQifdPT26Gt1KkyR2BBTug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c56615ba-ebc9-4c89-9ed8-ec6e35c1fcfc@udel.edu>

On 1/9/2020 9:08 AM, Segundo Recalde wrote:
> I'm having trouble deleting the python IDLE. I managed to delete 
> everything but the 'about IDLE 3.8.1 (64 bit)' menu. I'm currently using 
> a macbook pro (mac OS Catalina).

I don't know about any 'about IDLE 3.8.1 (64 bit)' menu.  There is an 
'about IDLE' item on the IDLE app menu, but you should only see than 
menu when running IDLE, which should not be possible anymore.

In any case, this question is off-topic for this list.  idle-dev is for 
discussion of future versions of the idlelib package as part of the 
CPython stdlib.  IDLE is installed, perhaps optionally along with 
tkinter, as part of the installation of pythonx.y, and uninstalled along 
with python.

The python installer/uninstaller is a separate topic.  Discussion of its 
use belongs, for instance, on python-list.  But you are apparently not 
using that.  I will just note that the Windows Python installer can be 
run in 'repair' mode, and that if one does so, one might be able to 
uncheck "[] include tkinter and IDLE" and have tkinter and IDLE removed.

Anyone who manually fiddles with a program or package installation is 
more or less on their own.  Unless an expert mac user replies here, you 
would likely do better to ask on the mail.python.org python-list.  If 
you do, give details on how you installed python 3.8.1 and what you have 
done so far.

Lastly, I note that pythonxy/Lib/idlelib takes up less that 3 megabytes, 
especially with .../__pycache__ deleted, so that the space saving is 
likely not worth the time expended.

PS: send any response to the list, not my mailbox.
--
Terry Jan Reedy

From alan.gauld at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Jan 17 19:06:12 2020
From: alan.gauld at yahoo.co.uk (Alan Gauld)
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2020 00:06:12 +0000
Subject: [Idle-dev] IDLE shell: Moving prompts to a side-bar
In-Reply-To: <CALWZvp6WyR=Dm7hGPXnnZ2uTQB-A=n19g9XMXd4NWvCwkhP6pQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALWZvp6WyR=Dm7hGPXnnZ2uTQB-A=n19g9XMXd4NWvCwkhP6pQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <qvti5k$v6u$1@ciao.gmane.io>

On 01/11/2019 22:37, Tal Einat wrote:

> Following up the successful addition of line numbers for editor windows,
> we're considering moving shell prompts to a similar side-bar instead of
> having them inline.
> 
> *I'd love to hear opinions about this from more active users!*

If, as I suspect, this would fix the messed up indentation in
IDLE shell control statements then a huge +1 from me.

As moderator of the tutor list we see lots of confused
beginners getting tripped up by that. Probably the biggest
single complaint about IDLE...

PS. Sorry for the tardy response but I read this via gmane
newsfeed and when that broke I stopped getting news.
Now gmane is back I can read the lists again - hooray!


-- 
Alan G
Author of the Learn to Program web site
http://www.alan-g.me.uk/
http://www.amazon.com/author/alan_gauld
Follow my photo-blog on Flickr at:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/alangauldphotos



From taleinat at gmail.com  Sat Jan 18 07:02:15 2020
From: taleinat at gmail.com (Tal Einat)
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2020 14:02:15 +0200
Subject: [Idle-dev] IDLE shell: Moving prompts to a side-bar
In-Reply-To: <qvti5k$v6u$1@ciao.gmane.io>
References: <CALWZvp6WyR=Dm7hGPXnnZ2uTQB-A=n19g9XMXd4NWvCwkhP6pQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <qvti5k$v6u$1@ciao.gmane.io>
Message-ID: <CALWZvp5hq=9siBqvTDV+7TbB6p=JN+roaA9fau8GkSLpiSqJKg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 2:06 AM Alan Gauld via IDLE-dev
<idle-dev at python.org> wrote:
>
> If, as I suspect, this would fix the messed up indentation in
> IDLE shell control statements then a huge +1 from me.
>
> As moderator of the tutor list we see lots of confused
> beginners getting tripped up by that. Probably the biggest
> single complaint about IDLE...

This does indeed resolve that indentation issue, which was one of the
main motivators for making this change.

- Tal Einat

From alan.gauld at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Jan 18 08:11:03 2020
From: alan.gauld at yahoo.co.uk (Alan Gauld)
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2020 13:11:03 +0000
Subject: [Idle-dev] IDLE shell: Moving prompts to a side-bar
In-Reply-To: <CALWZvp5hq=9siBqvTDV+7TbB6p=JN+roaA9fau8GkSLpiSqJKg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALWZvp6WyR=Dm7hGPXnnZ2uTQB-A=n19g9XMXd4NWvCwkhP6pQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <qvti5k$v6u$1@ciao.gmane.io>
 <CALWZvp5hq=9siBqvTDV+7TbB6p=JN+roaA9fau8GkSLpiSqJKg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <qvv057$1gq3$1@ciao.gmane.io>

On 18/01/2020 12:02, Tal Einat wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 2:06 AM Alan Gauld via IDLE-dev
> <idle-dev at python.org> wrote:
>>
>> If, as I suspect, this would fix the messed up indentation in
>> IDLE shell control statements then a huge +1 from me.
> This does indeed resolve that indentation issue, which was one of the
> main motivators for making this change.

Awesome.
Thanks for all the work you guys are doing with IDLE,
it has really come on a lot in the last few releases.

-- 
Alan G
Author of the Learn to Program web site
http://www.alan-g.me.uk/
http://www.amazon.com/author/alan_gauld
Follow my photo-blog on Flickr at:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/alangauldphotos



From taleinat at gmail.com  Wed Jan 22 15:37:34 2020
From: taleinat at gmail.com (Tal Einat)
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2020 22:37:34 +0200
Subject: [Idle-dev] IDLE shell: Moving prompts to a side-bar
In-Reply-To: <qvv057$1gq3$1@ciao.gmane.io>
References: <CALWZvp6WyR=Dm7hGPXnnZ2uTQB-A=n19g9XMXd4NWvCwkhP6pQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <qvti5k$v6u$1@ciao.gmane.io>
 <CALWZvp5hq=9siBqvTDV+7TbB6p=JN+roaA9fau8GkSLpiSqJKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <qvv057$1gq3$1@ciao.gmane.io>
Message-ID: <CALWZvp6fbybdU4a5WbQRyXvmLjQjC4cn_VQxtmJOuH9VKE4vDA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 3:11 PM Alan Gauld via IDLE-dev <idle-dev at python.org>
wrote:

> On 18/01/2020 12:02, Tal Einat wrote:
> > This does indeed resolve that indentation issue, which was one of the
> > main motivators for making this change.
>
> Awesome.
> Thanks for all the work you guys are doing with IDLE,
> it has really come on a lot in the last few releases.
>

Thanks for the kind words, Alan! They mean a lot to me, and I'm sure to the
other devs too :)

- Tal
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From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Jan 22 22:52:06 2020
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2020 22:52:06 -0500
Subject: [Idle-dev] IDLE shell: Moving prompts to a side-bar
In-Reply-To: <CALWZvp6fbybdU4a5WbQRyXvmLjQjC4cn_VQxtmJOuH9VKE4vDA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALWZvp6WyR=Dm7hGPXnnZ2uTQB-A=n19g9XMXd4NWvCwkhP6pQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <qvti5k$v6u$1@ciao.gmane.io>
 <CALWZvp5hq=9siBqvTDV+7TbB6p=JN+roaA9fau8GkSLpiSqJKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <qvv057$1gq3$1@ciao.gmane.io>
 <CALWZvp6fbybdU4a5WbQRyXvmLjQjC4cn_VQxtmJOuH9VKE4vDA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8f857a1b-b186-bb08-53e1-55939c533269@udel.edu>

On 1/22/2020 3:37 PM, Tal Einat wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 3:11 PM Alan Gauld via IDLE-dev 
> <idle-dev at python.org <mailto:idle-dev at python.org>> wrote:
> 
>     On 18/01/2020 12:02, Tal Einat wrote:
>      > This does indeed resolve that indentation issue, which was one of the
>      > main motivators for making this change.
> 
>     Awesome.
>     Thanks for all the work you guys are doing with IDLE,
>     it has really come on a lot in the last few releases.
> 
> 
> Thanks for the kind words, Alan! They mean a lot to me, and I'm sure to 
> the other devs too :)

Definitely.