From Irv at furrypants.com  Thu Nov  2 19:20:19 2017
From: Irv at furrypants.com (Irv Kalb)
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2017 16:20:19 -0700
Subject: [Idle-dev] Bug in cursor placement in IDLE editor windows
In-Reply-To: <feb32b88-7cfc-7a3c-f0f3-352a668fb023@udel.edu>
References: <CAMax43bd9ur5=tfzN1EYhk0r6Xi5VrCd2Gy-8f3w7DRq3VzkEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <feb32b88-7cfc-7a3c-f0f3-352a668fb023@udel.edu>
Message-ID: <FEFE76F2-75E7-4D80-9AE1-E62F14D1D839@furrypants.com>

Hi,

I use IDLE when teaching classes, and I use it to develop small programs for my lessons.  I have found a bug that has been in IDLE for a while, and I finally got frustrated enough with it to write.

I am running on a Mac using IDLE version 3.6.1:

Python 3.6.1 (v3.6.1:69c0db5050, Mar 21 2017, 01:21:04) 
[GCC 4.2.1 (Apple Inc. build 5666) (dot 3)] on darwin
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license()" for more information.
>>> 

running Max OS X 10.12.6 - but I also see this same problem when I am in class running Windows 10, with Python 3.6.???

If I have an indented line, and I click just to the left of the first real character on that line, often IDLE will place the insertion cursor at the wrong place - at one character to the right of the left edge of the window.  If I click in the same spot (Just to the left of the first real character on the line), IDLE responds by moving the insertion cursor one space to the right.  Depending on how many times the line I'm clicking on has been indented, IDLE eventually highlights a section from the last character of the previous line to just before the first real character of the line where I clicked.  If I click one more time, IDLE puts the insertion character in the correct place.  

I often want to indent a single line, or make a change at the beginning of a line, but this bug makes a simple change very painful.  To avoid this bug, I sometimes click between the first and second real characters on a line then press left arrow to put the cursor where I really want it.  

One thing to point out, I always use the Tab key to indent my lines.  However, even if I type many space characters to indent, I see the same (incorrect behavior).

I hope this is something that can be found and fixed quickly.  It is extremely annoying.

Thanks for your consideration,

Irv

From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Nov  2 20:24:59 2017
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2017 20:24:59 -0400
Subject: [Idle-dev] Bug in cursor placement in IDLE editor windows
In-Reply-To: <FEFE76F2-75E7-4D80-9AE1-E62F14D1D839@furrypants.com>
References: <CAMax43bd9ur5=tfzN1EYhk0r6Xi5VrCd2Gy-8f3w7DRq3VzkEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <feb32b88-7cfc-7a3c-f0f3-352a668fb023@udel.edu>
 <FEFE76F2-75E7-4D80-9AE1-E62F14D1D839@furrypants.com>
Message-ID: <d4501dde-b115-799e-8db6-fae47a1d4e47@udel.edu>

On 11/2/2017 7:20 PM, Irv Kalb wrote:

> I use IDLE when teaching classes, and I use it to develop small programs for my lessons.  I have found a bug that has been in IDLE for a while, and I finally got frustrated enough with it to write.
> 
> I am running on a Mac using IDLE version 3.6.1:
> 
> Python 3.6.1 (v3.6.1:69c0db5050, Mar 21 2017, 01:21:04)
> [GCC 4.2.1 (Apple Inc. build 5666) (dot 3)] on darwin

 From the date, this appears to be the binary from python.org.
Did you upgrade tcl/tk as specified at
https://www.python.org/download/mac/tcltk/ ?
What Tk version is shown by Help => About IDLE?

> running Max OS X 10.12.6 - but I also see this same problem when I am in class running Windows 10, with Python 3.6.???
I use Windows 10 and I cannot reproduce the problem you report with any 
of 2.7.14, 3.6.3, or 3.7.0a2.  I used
if a:
     if b:
         if c:
             d
             d
             f
for testing.  Please post a sample text that fails on Windows 10.  If 
you want, do what I would do and insert it into the following code.

import tkinter as tk
root = tk.Tk()
text = tk.Text(root)
sample = '''
<replace this with sample that allows reported error>
'''
text.insert('1.0', sample)
text.pack()
root.mainloop()

Then run and click in the resulting Text window and see if the behavior 
is the same or different.  Mouse clicks in the text area of an editor 
window are primarily handled by tk, not IDLE or even tkinter.  Without 
running this control experiment, there is no reason to blame IDLE.

 > One thing to point out, I always use the Tab key to indent my lines. 
However, even if I type many space characters to indent, I see the same 
(incorrect behavior).

Unless you have a particular undocumented entry in 
<HOME>/.idlerc/config-main.cfg, tabs are converted to spaces (default 4) 
before insertion into the text widget.  If the <- and -> arrow keys 
always move one character, you have spaces.

> If I have an indented line, and I click just to the left of the first real character on that line, often IDLE will place the insertion cursor at the wrong place - at one character to the right of the left edge of the window.  If I click in the same spot (Just to the left of the first real character on the line), IDLE responds by moving the insertion cursor one space to the right.  Depending on how many times the line I'm clicking on has been indented, IDLE eventually highlights a section from the last character of the previous line to just before the first real character of the line where I clicked.  If I click one more time, IDLE puts the insertion character in the correct place.

For me, a sinple click places the the cursor on the nearest 
between-character slice line, either to the left or right of where I 
click.  Two clicks that are rapid enough to be interpreted as a double 
click select a word or non-word slice.  Similarly, clicks with the bar 
overlapping two lines are pushed to the 'closer' line, either up or down.

--
Terry Jan Reedy

From Irv at furrypants.com  Fri Nov  3 00:49:20 2017
From: Irv at furrypants.com (Irv Kalb)
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2017 21:49:20 -0700
Subject: [Idle-dev] Bug in cursor placement in IDLE editor windows
In-Reply-To: <d4501dde-b115-799e-8db6-fae47a1d4e47@udel.edu>
References: <CAMax43bd9ur5=tfzN1EYhk0r6Xi5VrCd2Gy-8f3w7DRq3VzkEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <feb32b88-7cfc-7a3c-f0f3-352a668fb023@udel.edu>
 <FEFE76F2-75E7-4D80-9AE1-E62F14D1D839@furrypants.com>
 <d4501dde-b115-799e-8db6-fae47a1d4e47@udel.edu>
Message-ID: <BC002895-CA79-4B0E-8095-E89801E218A5@furrypants.com>

Hi Terry,

Thanks for your message.  
> On Nov 2, 2017, at 5:24 PM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
> 
> On 11/2/2017 7:20 PM, Irv Kalb wrote:
> 
>> I use IDLE when teaching classes, and I use it to develop small programs for my lessons.  I have found a bug that has been in IDLE for a while, and I finally got frustrated enough with it to write.
>> I am running on a Mac using IDLE version 3.6.1:
>> Python 3.6.1 (v3.6.1:69c0db5050, Mar 21 2017, 01:21:04)
>> [GCC 4.2.1 (Apple Inc. build 5666) (dot 3)] on darwin
> 
> From the date, this appears to be the binary from python.org.

Yes, I am using an absolutely standard download from python.org <http://python.org/>.  No modifications at all.

> Did you upgrade tcl/tk as specified at
> https://www.python.org/download/mac/tcltk/ ?

No, I have not.  I had no idea that I needed to do this.  I just took a look at that page, and it does suggest that I need to upgrade. 

> What Tk version is shown by Help => About IDLE?

It says Tk version: 8.5.15

> 
>> running Max OS X 10.12.6 - but I also see this same problem when I am in class running Windows 10, with Python 3.6.???
> I use Windows 10 and I cannot reproduce the problem you report with any of 2.7.14, 3.6.3, or 3.7.0a2.  I used
> if a:
>    if b:
>        if c:
>            d
>            d
>            f
> for testing.  Please post a sample text that fails on Windows 10.  If you want, do what I would do and insert it into the following code.

Unfortunately, I won't be able to do that until next week when I am back at the school.  I will try to remember to do that then.

> 
> import tkinter as tk
> root = tk.Tk()
> text = tk.Text(root)
> sample = '''
> <replace this with sample that allows reported error>
> '''
> text.insert('1.0', sample)
> text.pack()
> root.mainloop()
> 
> Then run and click in the resulting Text window and see if the behavior is the same or different.  Mouse clicks in the text area of an editor window are primarily handled by tk, not IDLE or even tkinter.  Without running this control experiment, there is no reason to blame IDLE.

I just tried your test on my Mac with the following:

import tkinter as tk
root = tk.Tk()
text = tk.Text(root)
sample = '''
if x:
    y = 1
'''
text.insert('1.0', sample)
text.pack()
root.mainloop()

I run it, it brings up a widow with the two lines, and the same problem occurs there.

> 
> > One thing to point out, I always use the Tab key to indent my lines. However, even if I type many space characters to indent, I see the same (incorrect behavior).
> 
> Unless you have a particular undocumented entry in <HOME>/.idlerc/config-main.cfg, tabs are converted to spaces (default 4) before insertion into the text widget.  If the <- and -> arrow keys always move one character, you have spaces.

I have not changed any configuration like this.

> 
>> If I have an indented line, and I click just to the left of the first real character on that line, often IDLE will place the insertion cursor at the wrong place - at one character to the right of the left edge of the window.  If I click in the same spot (Just to the left of the first real character on the line), IDLE responds by moving the insertion cursor one space to the right.  Depending on how many times the line I'm clicking on has been indented, IDLE eventually highlights a section from the last character of the previous line to just before the first real character of the line where I clicked.  If I click one more time, IDLE puts the insertion character in the correct place.
> 
> For me, a sinple click places the the cursor on the nearest between-character slice line, either to the left or right of where I click.  Two clicks that are rapid enough to be interpreted as a double click select a word or non-word slice.  Similarly, clicks with the bar overlapping two lines are pushed to the 'closer' line, either up or down.
> 
> --
> Terry Jan Reedy
> _______________________________________________
> IDLE-dev mailing list
> IDLE-dev at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/idle-dev
> 

Sounds like I need to upgrade TCL.  Following the links on the page you provided, it looks like I need to download ActiveTCL, with the newest version being 8.6.6 from ActiveState.com.

Does that sound right?

How would the average person (who doesn't follow links on forums like this and get expert help from someone like you) know to do this???

Thanks,

Irv



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From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Nov  3 03:59:29 2017
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2017 03:59:29 -0400
Subject: [Idle-dev] Bug in cursor placement in IDLE editor windows
In-Reply-To: <BC002895-CA79-4B0E-8095-E89801E218A5@furrypants.com>
References: <CAMax43bd9ur5=tfzN1EYhk0r6Xi5VrCd2Gy-8f3w7DRq3VzkEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <feb32b88-7cfc-7a3c-f0f3-352a668fb023@udel.edu>
 <FEFE76F2-75E7-4D80-9AE1-E62F14D1D839@furrypants.com>
 <d4501dde-b115-799e-8db6-fae47a1d4e47@udel.edu>
 <BC002895-CA79-4B0E-8095-E89801E218A5@furrypants.com>
Message-ID: <1dd86c09-b656-2eec-9535-617e4299e319@udel.edu>

On 11/3/2017 12:49 AM, Irv Kalb wrote:
> Hi Terry,
> 
> Thanks for your message.
>> On Nov 2, 2017, at 5:24 PM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu 
>> <mailto:tjreedy at udel.edu>> wrote:
>>
>> On 11/2/2017 7:20 PM, Irv Kalb wrote:
>>
>>> I use IDLE when teaching classes, and I use it to develop small 
>>> programs for my lessons. ?I have found a bug that has been in IDLE 
>>> for a while, and I finally got frustrated enough with it to write.
>>> I am running on a Mac using IDLE version 3.6.1:
>>> Python 3.6.1 (v3.6.1:69c0db5050, Mar 21 2017, 01:21:04)
>>> [GCC 4.2.1 (Apple Inc. build 5666) (dot 3)] on darwin
>>
>> From the date, this appears to be the binary from python.org 
>> <http://python.org>.
> 
> Yes, I am using an absolutely standard download from python.org 
> <http://python.org>. ?No modifications at all.
> 
>> Did you upgrade tcl/tk as specified at
>> https://www.python.org/download/mac/tcltk/ ?
> 
> No, I have not. ?I had no idea that I needed to do this. ?I just took a 
> look at that page, and it does suggest that I need to upgrade.
> 
>> What Tk version is shown by Help => About IDLE?
> 
> It says Tk version: 8.5.15

I am a bit surprised that you are having a problem with that.  8.5.9 is 
the really awful version.

>>> running Max OS X 10.12.6 - but I also see this same problem when I am 
>>> in class running Windows 10, with Python 3.6.???
>> I use Windows 10 and I cannot reproduce the problem you report with 
>> any of 2.7.14, 3.6.3, or 3.7.0a2. ?I used
>> if a:
>> ???if b:
>> ???????if c:
>> ???????????d
>> ???????????d
>> ???????????f
>> for testing. ?Please post a sample text that fails on Windows 10. ?If 
>> you want, do what I would do and insert it into the following code.
> 
> Unfortunately, I won't be able to do that until next week when I am back 
> at the school. ?I will try to remember to do that then.
> 
>>
>> import tkinter as tk
>> root = tk.Tk()
>> text = tk.Text(root)
>> sample = '''
>> <replace this with sample that allows reported error>
>> '''
>> text.insert('1.0', sample)
>> text.pack()
>> root.mainloop()
>>
>> Then run and click in the resulting Text window and see if the 
>> behavior is the same or different. ?Mouse clicks in the text area of 
>> an editor window are primarily handled by tk, not IDLE or even 
>> tkinter. ?Without running this control experiment, there is no reason 
>> to blame IDLE.
> 
> I just tried your test on my Mac with the following:
> 
> import tkinter as tk
> root = tk.Tk()
> text = tk.Text(root)
> sample = '''
> if x:
>  ? ? y = 1
> '''
> text.insert('1.0', sample)
> text.pack()
> root.mainloop()
> 
> I run it, it brings up a widow with the two lines, and the same problem 
> occurs there.

Then this is either a tkinter or tk issue, most like the latter. But 
this behavior is so annoying that I would expect to have seen a report 
before if it were widespread.

>> > One thing to point out, I always use the Tab key to indent my lines. 
>> However, even if I type many space characters to indent, I see the 
>> same (incorrect behavior).
>>
>> Unless you have a particular undocumented entry in 
>> <HOME>/.idlerc/config-main.cfg, tabs are converted to spaces (default 
>> 4) before insertion into the text widget. ?If the <- and -> arrow keys 
>> always move one character, you have spaces.
> 
> I have not changed any configuration like this.
> 
>>
>>> If I have an indented line, and I click just to the left of the first 
>>> real character on that line, often IDLE will place the insertion 
>>> cursor at the wrong place - at one character to the right of the left 
>>> edge of the window. ?If I click in the same spot (Just to the left of 
>>> the first real character on the line), IDLE responds by moving the 
>>> insertion cursor one space to the right. ?Depending on how many times 
>>> the line I'm clicking on has been indented, IDLE eventually 
>>> highlights a section from the last character of the previous line to 
>>> just before the first real character of the line where I clicked. ?If 
>>> I click one more time, IDLE puts the insertion character in the 
>>> correct place.
>>
>> For me, a sinple click places the the cursor on the nearest 
>> between-character slice line, either to the left or right of where I 
>> click. ?Two clicks that are rapid enough to be interpreted as a double 
>> click select a word or non-word slice. ?Similarly, clicks with the bar 
>> overlapping two lines are pushed to the 'closer' line, either up or down.

> Sounds like I need to upgrade TCL. ?Following the links on the page you 
> provided, it looks like I need to download ActiveTCL, with the newest 
> version being 8.6.6 from ActiveState.com <http://ActiveState.com>.
> 
> Does that sound right?

No, our 3.6 Mac binary is compiled against 8.5 and will not work with 
8.6.  The page says 8.5.18.  Try that.  If there is still a problem, one 
of us should open an issue on the tracker and make sure that the Mac and 
tkinter experts are nosy. it.  The exact OSX version would be needed. 
(Are you the IrvKalb already registered?)

> How would the average person (who doesn't follow links on forums like 
> this and get expert help from someone like you) know to do this???

Some people see the following line on the download page

macOS users: There is important information about IDLE, Tkinter, and 
Tcl/Tk on macOS here.

and click the link.  Others miss it and ask various places.  Or they 
take classes that use pre-loaded machines or walk students through 
installation on their own machines.  Or maybe they blame IDLE for the tk 
bugs and stop trying to use it.


From Irv at furrypants.com  Mon Nov  6 23:54:27 2017
From: Irv at furrypants.com (Irv Kalb)
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2017 20:54:27 -0800
Subject: [Idle-dev] Bug in cursor placement in IDLE editor windows
In-Reply-To: <1dd86c09-b656-2eec-9535-617e4299e319@udel.edu>
References: <CAMax43bd9ur5=tfzN1EYhk0r6Xi5VrCd2Gy-8f3w7DRq3VzkEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <feb32b88-7cfc-7a3c-f0f3-352a668fb023@udel.edu>
 <FEFE76F2-75E7-4D80-9AE1-E62F14D1D839@furrypants.com>
 <d4501dde-b115-799e-8db6-fae47a1d4e47@udel.edu>
 <BC002895-CA79-4B0E-8095-E89801E218A5@furrypants.com>
 <1dd86c09-b656-2eec-9535-617e4299e319@udel.edu>
Message-ID: <EA85CF29-2729-410C-A78C-76093205D81E@furrypants.com>

Hi,

I have installed  the 8.5.18 version of tk/tcl that you suggested.  But I am still seeing this problem on my Mac.

Rather than trying to explain the details and my configuration, I have made a 3 minute video so you can see exactly what I am seeing.  You can find that here:

https://youtu.be/Us8px0BY5rg <https://youtu.be/Us8px0BY5rg>

In answer to your question, I would guess that I am the same IrvKalb that is registered, but it would take me hours to figure out how to register a bug (since I have never done it before).  So if you believe that this is a real bug, I would greatly appreciate it if you could register it for me.  

Again, please let me know if there is any more information I can give you.

(I forgot to test this out on my Windows computer at my school today - I'll try to remember to do it tomorrow.  I remember seeing this last semester on the Windows system, but we were running Python 2 back then.)

Irv


> On Nov 3, 2017, at 12:59 AM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
> 
> On 11/3/2017 12:49 AM, Irv Kalb wrote:
>> Hi Terry,
>> Thanks for your message.
>>> On Nov 2, 2017, at 5:24 PM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu <mailto:tjreedy at udel.edu>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 11/2/2017 7:20 PM, Irv Kalb wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I use IDLE when teaching classes, and I use it to develop small programs for my lessons.  I have found a bug that has been in IDLE for a while, and I finally got frustrated enough with it to write.
>>>> I am running on a Mac using IDLE version 3.6.1:
>>>> Python 3.6.1 (v3.6.1:69c0db5050, Mar 21 2017, 01:21:04)
>>>> [GCC 4.2.1 (Apple Inc. build 5666) (dot 3)] on darwin
>>> 
>>> From the date, this appears to be the binary from python.org <http://python.org>.
>> Yes, I am using an absolutely standard download from python.org <http://python.org>.  No modifications at all.
>>> Did you upgrade tcl/tk as specified at
>>> https://www.python.org/download/mac/tcltk/ ?
>> No, I have not.  I had no idea that I needed to do this.  I just took a look at that page, and it does suggest that I need to upgrade.
>>> What Tk version is shown by Help => About IDLE?
>> It says Tk version: 8.5.15
> 
> I am a bit surprised that you are having a problem with that.  8.5.9 is the really awful version.
> 
>>>> running Max OS X 10.12.6 - but I also see this same problem when I am in class running Windows 10, with Python 3.6.???
>>> I use Windows 10 and I cannot reproduce the problem you report with any of 2.7.14, 3.6.3, or 3.7.0a2.  I used
>>> if a:
>>>    if b:
>>>        if c:
>>>            d
>>>            d
>>>            f
>>> for testing.  Please post a sample text that fails on Windows 10.  If you want, do what I would do and insert it into the following code.
>> Unfortunately, I won't be able to do that until next week when I am back at the school.  I will try to remember to do that then.
>>> 
>>> import tkinter as tk
>>> root = tk.Tk()
>>> text = tk.Text(root)
>>> sample = '''
>>> <replace this with sample that allows reported error>
>>> '''
>>> text.insert('1.0', sample)
>>> text.pack()
>>> root.mainloop()
>>> 
>>> Then run and click in the resulting Text window and see if the behavior is the same or different.  Mouse clicks in the text area of an editor window are primarily handled by tk, not IDLE or even tkinter.  Without running this control experiment, there is no reason to blame IDLE.
>> I just tried your test on my Mac with the following:
>> import tkinter as tk
>> root = tk.Tk()
>> text = tk.Text(root)
>> sample = '''
>> if x:
>>     y = 1
>> '''
>> text.insert('1.0', sample)
>> text.pack()
>> root.mainloop()
>> I run it, it brings up a widow with the two lines, and the same problem occurs there.
> 
> Then this is either a tkinter or tk issue, most like the latter. But this behavior is so annoying that I would expect to have seen a report before if it were widespread.
> 
>>> > One thing to point out, I always use the Tab key to indent my lines. However, even if I type many space characters to indent, I see the same (incorrect behavior).
>>> 
>>> Unless you have a particular undocumented entry in <HOME>/.idlerc/config-main.cfg, tabs are converted to spaces (default 4) before insertion into the text widget.  If the <- and -> arrow keys always move one character, you have spaces.
>> I have not changed any configuration like this.
>>> 
>>>> If I have an indented line, and I click just to the left of the first real character on that line, often IDLE will place the insertion cursor at the wrong place - at one character to the right of the left edge of the window.  If I click in the same spot (Just to the left of the first real character on the line), IDLE responds by moving the insertion cursor one space to the right.  Depending on how many times the line I'm clicking on has been indented, IDLE eventually highlights a section from the last character of the previous line to just before the first real character of the line where I clicked.  If I click one more time, IDLE puts the insertion character in the correct place.
>>> 
>>> For me, a sinple click places the the cursor on the nearest between-character slice line, either to the left or right of where I click.  Two clicks that are rapid enough to be interpreted as a double click select a word or non-word slice.  Similarly, clicks with the bar overlapping two lines are pushed to the 'closer' line, either up or down.
> 
>> Sounds like I need to upgrade TCL.  Following the links on the page you provided, it looks like I need to download ActiveTCL, with the newest version being 8.6.6 from ActiveState.com <http://ActiveState.com>.
>> Does that sound right?
> 
> No, our 3.6 Mac binary is compiled against 8.5 and will not work with 8.6.  The page says 8.5.18.  Try that.  If there is still a problem, one of us should open an issue on the tracker and make sure that the Mac and tkinter experts are nosy. it.  The exact OSX version would be needed. (Are you the IrvKalb already registered?)
> 
>> How would the average person (who doesn't follow links on forums like this and get expert help from someone like you) know to do this???
> 
> Some people see the following line on the download page
> 
> macOS users: There is important information about IDLE, Tkinter, and Tcl/Tk on macOS here.
> 
> and click the link.  Others miss it and ask various places.  Or they take classes that use pre-loaded machines or walk students through installation on their own machines.  Or maybe they blame IDLE for the tk bugs and stop trying to use it.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> IDLE-dev mailing list
> IDLE-dev at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/idle-dev

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From kw at codebykevin.com  Tue Nov  7 06:31:23 2017
From: kw at codebykevin.com (Kevin Walzer)
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 06:31:23 -0500
Subject: [Idle-dev] Bug in cursor placement in IDLE editor windows
In-Reply-To: <EA85CF29-2729-410C-A78C-76093205D81E@furrypants.com>
References: <CAMax43bd9ur5=tfzN1EYhk0r6Xi5VrCd2Gy-8f3w7DRq3VzkEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <feb32b88-7cfc-7a3c-f0f3-352a668fb023@udel.edu>
 <FEFE76F2-75E7-4D80-9AE1-E62F14D1D839@furrypants.com>
 <d4501dde-b115-799e-8db6-fae47a1d4e47@udel.edu>
 <BC002895-CA79-4B0E-8095-E89801E218A5@furrypants.com>
 <1dd86c09-b656-2eec-9535-617e4299e319@udel.edu>
 <EA85CF29-2729-410C-A78C-76093205D81E@furrypants.com>
Message-ID: <23438bd1-7c01-d8a3-fcf3-9eca4ecb6796@codebykevin.com>

On 11/6/17 11:54 PM, Irv Kalb wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have installed ?the 8.5.18 version of tk/tcl that you suggested. 
> ?But I am still seeing this problem on my Mac.
>
> Rather than trying to explain the details and my configuration, I have 
> made a 3 minute video so you can see exactly what I am seeing. ?You 
> can find that here:
>
> https://youtu.be/Us8px0BY5rg
>
> In answer to your question, I would guess that I am the same IrvKalb 
> that is registered, but it would take me hours to figure out how to 
> register a bug (since I have never done it before). ?So if you believe 
> that this is a real bug, I would greatly appreciate it if you could 
> register it for me.
>
> Again, please let me know if there is any more information I can give you.
>
> (I forgot to test this out on my Windows computer at my school today - 
> I'll try to remember to do it tomorrow. ?I remember seeing this last 
> semester on the Windows system, but we were running Python 2 back then.)
>
> Irv
>
FWIW, I don't see this issue with IDLE built against Python 3.6.1 and 
Tcl/Tk 8.6.7. 8.5.18 is a very old release of Tk and we are not 
backporting bugfixes to it. You may solve your problem by upgrading your 
installation of Tk.

--Kevin

-- 
Kevin Walzer
Code by Kevin/Mobile Code by Kevin
http://www.codebykevin.com
http://www.wtmobilesoftware.com

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From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Nov  7 14:27:46 2017
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 14:27:46 -0500
Subject: [Idle-dev] Bug in cursor placement in IDLE editor windows
In-Reply-To: <23438bd1-7c01-d8a3-fcf3-9eca4ecb6796@codebykevin.com>
References: <CAMax43bd9ur5=tfzN1EYhk0r6Xi5VrCd2Gy-8f3w7DRq3VzkEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <feb32b88-7cfc-7a3c-f0f3-352a668fb023@udel.edu>
 <FEFE76F2-75E7-4D80-9AE1-E62F14D1D839@furrypants.com>
 <d4501dde-b115-799e-8db6-fae47a1d4e47@udel.edu>
 <BC002895-CA79-4B0E-8095-E89801E218A5@furrypants.com>
 <1dd86c09-b656-2eec-9535-617e4299e319@udel.edu>
 <EA85CF29-2729-410C-A78C-76093205D81E@furrypants.com>
 <23438bd1-7c01-d8a3-fcf3-9eca4ecb6796@codebykevin.com>
Message-ID: <ott1fd$rh3$1@blaine.gmane.org>

On 11/7/2017 6:31 AM, Kevin Walzer wrote:
> On 11/6/17 11:54 PM, Irv Kalb wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have installed ?the 8.5.18 version of tk/tcl that you suggested. 
>> ?But I am still seeing this problem on my Mac.
>>
>> Rather than trying to explain the details and my configuration, I have 
>> made a 3 minute video so you can see exactly what I am seeing. ?You 
>> can find that here:
>>
>> https://youtu.be/Us8px0BY5rg

Crystal clear.

>>
>> In answer to your question, I would guess that I am the same IrvKalb 
>> that is registered, but it would take me hours to figure out how to 
>> register a bug (since I have never done it before). ?So if you believe 
>> that this is a real bug, I would greatly appreciate it if you could 
>> register it for me.
>>
>> Again, please let me know if there is any more information I can give you.
>>
>> (I forgot to test this out on my Windows computer at my school today - 
>> I'll try to remember to do it tomorrow. ?I remember seeing this last 
>> semester on the Windows system, but we were running Python 2 back then.)
>>
>> Irv
>>
> FWIW, I don't see this issue with IDLE built against Python 3.6.1 and 
> Tcl/Tk 8.6.7. 8.5.18 is a very old release of Tk and we are not 
> backporting bugfixes to it. You may solve your problem by upgrading your 
> installation of Tk.

I don't know why the PSF Mac Python is still compiled against 8.5 
instead of 8.6.  I will open a tkinter issue, even though it will likely 
be closed as 3rd party, both to document the problem and as more 
evidence of the need to change to compiling against 8.6.

PS: About a year ago, someone (you?) said we might see a tk that 
supports the unicode beyond the BMP in 2017.  Is there any development 
in that direction.  I think that this is the tk improvement that IDLE 
most needs.



-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From Irv at furrypants.com  Tue Nov  7 19:06:39 2017
From: Irv at furrypants.com (Irv Kalb)
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 16:06:39 -0800
Subject: [Idle-dev] Bug in cursor placement in IDLE editor windows
In-Reply-To: <ott1fd$rh3$1@blaine.gmane.org>
References: <CAMax43bd9ur5=tfzN1EYhk0r6Xi5VrCd2Gy-8f3w7DRq3VzkEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <feb32b88-7cfc-7a3c-f0f3-352a668fb023@udel.edu>
 <FEFE76F2-75E7-4D80-9AE1-E62F14D1D839@furrypants.com>
 <d4501dde-b115-799e-8db6-fae47a1d4e47@udel.edu>
 <BC002895-CA79-4B0E-8095-E89801E218A5@furrypants.com>
 <1dd86c09-b656-2eec-9535-617e4299e319@udel.edu>
 <EA85CF29-2729-410C-A78C-76093205D81E@furrypants.com>
 <23438bd1-7c01-d8a3-fcf3-9eca4ecb6796@codebykevin.com>
 <ott1fd$rh3$1@blaine.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <887FD0BA-BF2B-472C-B1DB-82ACE721EC79@furrypants.com>


> On Nov 7, 2017, at 11:27 AM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
> 
> On 11/7/2017 6:31 AM, Kevin Walzer wrote:
>> On 11/6/17 11:54 PM, Irv Kalb wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> I have installed  the 8.5.18 version of tk/tcl that you suggested.  But I am still seeing this problem on my Mac.
>>> 
>>> Rather than trying to explain the details and my configuration, I have made a 3 minute video so you can see exactly what I am seeing.  You can find that here:
>>> 
>>> https://youtu.be/Us8px0BY5rg
> 
> Crystal clear.
> 
>>> 
>>> In answer to your question, I would guess that I am the same IrvKalb that is registered, but it would take me hours to figure out how to register a bug (since I have never done it before).  So if you believe that this is a real bug, I would greatly appreciate it if you could register it for me.
>>> 
>>> Again, please let me know if there is any more information I can give you.
>>> 
>>> (I forgot to test this out on my Windows computer at my school today - I'll try to remember to do it tomorrow.  I remember seeing this last semester on the Windows system, but we were running Python 2 back then.)
>>> 
>>> Irv
>>> 
>> FWIW, I don't see this issue with IDLE built against Python 3.6.1 and Tcl/Tk 8.6.7. 8.5.18 is a very old release of Tk and we are not backporting bugfixes to it. You may solve your problem by upgrading your installation of Tk.
> 
> I don't know why the PSF Mac Python is still compiled against 8.5 instead of 8.6.  I will open a tkinter issue, even though it will likely be closed as 3rd party, both to document the problem and as more evidence of the need to change to compiling against 8.6.
> 
> PS: About a year ago, someone (you?) said we might see a tk that supports the unicode beyond the BMP in 2017.  Is there any development in that direction.  I think that this is the tk improvement that IDLE most needs.
> 
> 

Thank you Kevin and Terry for looking at this.  But now I'm very confused about what to do.  

Terry said that I should install Tcl/TK 8.5.18, which I did, but I still see the error.  He said that the current version of IDLE will not work with 8.6.

However, Kevin said that 8.5.18 is a very old release, and I may solve my problem by upgrading my installation of Tk.

So, should I attempt to install a newer version of Tk (8.6.?) - or am I just stuck with this odd insertion cursor behavior for now?   (I am using an absolutely vanilla download of Mac Python 3.6 from Python.org <http://python.org/>)

Irv

PS:  By the way, I did test out the same thing on my Windows 10 system at my school, and the issue does not happen there.  I realized that last semester, this same classroom had a Mac, and I saw this problem there (with Python 2.7).  

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From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Nov  7 20:10:52 2017
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 20:10:52 -0500
Subject: [Idle-dev] Bug in cursor placement in IDLE editor windows
In-Reply-To: <887FD0BA-BF2B-472C-B1DB-82ACE721EC79@furrypants.com>
References: <CAMax43bd9ur5=tfzN1EYhk0r6Xi5VrCd2Gy-8f3w7DRq3VzkEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <feb32b88-7cfc-7a3c-f0f3-352a668fb023@udel.edu>
 <FEFE76F2-75E7-4D80-9AE1-E62F14D1D839@furrypants.com>
 <d4501dde-b115-799e-8db6-fae47a1d4e47@udel.edu>
 <BC002895-CA79-4B0E-8095-E89801E218A5@furrypants.com>
 <1dd86c09-b656-2eec-9535-617e4299e319@udel.edu>
 <EA85CF29-2729-410C-A78C-76093205D81E@furrypants.com>
 <23438bd1-7c01-d8a3-fcf3-9eca4ecb6796@codebykevin.com>
 <ott1fd$rh3$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <887FD0BA-BF2B-472C-B1DB-82ACE721EC79@furrypants.com>
Message-ID: <ottlik$luq$1@blaine.gmane.org>

On 11/7/2017 7:06 PM, Irv Kalb wrote:

> Thank you Kevin and Terry for looking at this. ?But now I'm very 
> confused about what to do.

I will open an issue and add Ned Deily, who is in charge of the Mac 
release, as nosy.  Let's see what he says.  I will post the link here.

> Terry said that I should install Tcl/TK 8.5.18, which I did, but I still 
> see the error. ?He said that the current version of IDLE will not work 
> with 8.6.
> 
> However, Kevin said that 8.5.18 is a very old release, and I may solve 
> my problem by upgrading my installation of Tk.
> 
> So, should I attempt to install a newer version of Tk (8.6.?) - or am I 
> just stuck with this odd insertion cursor behavior for now? ? (I am 
> using an absolutely vanilla download of Mac Python 3.6 from Python.org 
> <http://Python.org>)
> 
> Irv
> 
> PS: ?By the way, I did test out the same thing on my Windows 10 system 
> at my school, and the issue does not happen there. ?I realized that last 
> semester, this same classroom had a Mac, and I saw this problem there 
> (with Python 2.7).

Thanks for following up on this.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Nov  7 20:58:27 2017
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 20:58:27 -0500
Subject: [Idle-dev] Bug in cursor placement in IDLE editor windows
In-Reply-To: <ottlik$luq$1@blaine.gmane.org>
References: <CAMax43bd9ur5=tfzN1EYhk0r6Xi5VrCd2Gy-8f3w7DRq3VzkEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <feb32b88-7cfc-7a3c-f0f3-352a668fb023@udel.edu>
 <FEFE76F2-75E7-4D80-9AE1-E62F14D1D839@furrypants.com>
 <d4501dde-b115-799e-8db6-fae47a1d4e47@udel.edu>
 <BC002895-CA79-4B0E-8095-E89801E218A5@furrypants.com>
 <1dd86c09-b656-2eec-9535-617e4299e319@udel.edu>
 <EA85CF29-2729-410C-A78C-76093205D81E@furrypants.com>
 <23438bd1-7c01-d8a3-fcf3-9eca4ecb6796@codebykevin.com>
 <ott1fd$rh3$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <887FD0BA-BF2B-472C-B1DB-82ACE721EC79@furrypants.com>
 <ottlik$luq$1@blaine.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <1d80f52a-cfd3-1aea-f499-3b1e892d0e8f@udel.edu>

On 11/7/2017 8:10 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:

> I will open an issue and add Ned Deily, who is in charge of the Mac 
> release, as nosy.? Let's see what he says.? I will post the link here.

https://bugs.python.org/issue31974
Cursor misbahavior with Tkinter 3.6.1/tk 8.5 Text on Mac Sierra



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Nov 10 17:08:38 2017
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2017 17:08:38 -0500
Subject: [Idle-dev] Bug in cursor placement in IDLE editor windows
In-Reply-To: <1d80f52a-cfd3-1aea-f499-3b1e892d0e8f@udel.edu>
References: <CAMax43bd9ur5=tfzN1EYhk0r6Xi5VrCd2Gy-8f3w7DRq3VzkEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <feb32b88-7cfc-7a3c-f0f3-352a668fb023@udel.edu>
 <FEFE76F2-75E7-4D80-9AE1-E62F14D1D839@furrypants.com>
 <d4501dde-b115-799e-8db6-fae47a1d4e47@udel.edu>
 <BC002895-CA79-4B0E-8095-E89801E218A5@furrypants.com>
 <1dd86c09-b656-2eec-9535-617e4299e319@udel.edu>
 <EA85CF29-2729-410C-A78C-76093205D81E@furrypants.com>
 <23438bd1-7c01-d8a3-fcf3-9eca4ecb6796@codebykevin.com>
 <ott1fd$rh3$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <887FD0BA-BF2B-472C-B1DB-82ACE721EC79@furrypants.com>
 <ottlik$luq$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <1d80f52a-cfd3-1aea-f499-3b1e892d0e8f@udel.edu>
Message-ID: <ou580v$25b$1@blaine.gmane.org>

On 11/7/2017 8:58 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 11/7/2017 8:10 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
> 
>> I will open an issue and add Ned Deily, who is in charge of the Mac 
>> release, as nosy.? Let's see what he says.? I will post the link here.
> 
> https://bugs.python.org/issue31974
> Cursor misbahavior with Tkinter 3.6.1/tk 8.5 Text on Mac Sierra

The resolution is 1. that this is definitely a tk issue, and 2. that for 
3.7, python.org macos release will be compiled to work with tk 8.6 and 
3. that latest 8.6.7 fixes the issue.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From niketanjain31 at gmail.com  Sat Nov 18 10:25:02 2017
From: niketanjain31 at gmail.com (Niketan Jain)
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2017 20:55:02 +0530
Subject: [Idle-dev] IDLE Clear Screen on Windows OS
Message-ID: <CADpqZbjgqP6ysh-gf7S9EAj4=+WbnyrE2FcWsoh1d0HWhmU6xA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi IDLE Dev Team,

I am a new learner to Python, and I have started using IDLE as my first
choice. I encountered with one question, for that Google too has no answer,
everyone just shouting this and that but no one exact that can help.

Maybe you are already aware of this query even before I queried.
Do we have some option to clean the IDLE screen when it reaches the bottom
of the screen? On Windows.

People say print "\n" 50 times or 100 times... import OS... nothing is
working. Is there anything that can help and put the ">>>" prompt at the
top instead of the screen bottom.


Thanks a lot,
Niketan
Python Beginner :)
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From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Nov 19 16:53:48 2017
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 16:53:48 -0500
Subject: [Idle-dev] IDLE Clear Screen on Windows OS
In-Reply-To: <CADpqZbjgqP6ysh-gf7S9EAj4=+WbnyrE2FcWsoh1d0HWhmU6xA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADpqZbjgqP6ysh-gf7S9EAj4=+WbnyrE2FcWsoh1d0HWhmU6xA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6f35bd11-5d80-fa23-064d-1629a75cbe88@udel.edu>

On 11/18/2017 10:25 AM, Niketan Jain wrote:
> I am a new learner to Python, and I have started using IDLE as my first 
> choice. I encountered with one question, for that Google too has no 
> answer, everyone just shouting this and that but no one exact that can 
> help.
> 
> Maybe you are already aware of this query even before I queried.
> Do we have some option to clean the IDLE screen when it reaches the 
> bottom of the screen? On Windows.
> 
> People say print "\n" 50 times or 100 times... import OS... nothing is 
> working. Is there anything that can help and put the ">>>" prompt at the 
> top instead of the screen bottom.

This is https://bugs.python.org/issue6143 on the issue tracker.

I have recently done the conversion mentioned in msg272843, with help 
from another contributor, so this is one of the followup issues I will 
be looking at.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy