From ether.joe at gmail.com Tue Jun 6 15:10:03 2017 From: ether.joe at gmail.com (Sean Felipe Wolfe) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2017 12:10:03 -0700 Subject: [Idle-dev] About IDLE vs IDLE Help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Should be a pretty straightforward change -- how about a pull request? Speaking of which -- IDLE is still using bitbucket and bzr yes ? As opposed to git? Is there a separate repository at this point or is it coupled to the Python main line? On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 3:46 PM, Paulo Portela wrote: > Team of IDLE, > > First of all thanks for the effort of doing this tool. > > On the Mac, when clicking ?About IDLE?, it is written: > ?Python?s Integrated DeveLopment Environment? > > But when click on "IDLE Help? it is written: > ?IDLE is Python?s Integrated Development and Learning Environment? > > In my opinion, it should be the last definition on both places (About > IDLE and IDLE Help). > > > > Best regards > Paulo Portela > > https://about.me/paulogp > > > _______________________________________________ > IDLE-dev mailing list > IDLE-dev at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/idle-dev > -- A musician must make music, an artist must paint, a poet must write, if he is to be ultimately at peace with himself. - Abraham Maslow -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tjreedy at udel.edu Tue Jun 6 15:45:45 2017 From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2017 15:45:45 -0400 Subject: [Idle-dev] About IDLE vs IDLE Help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Paulo, idle-dev normally requires a subscription to post, and you will need to subscribe should you with to respond on the list. But because this is timely, and wanted to respond, I passed it through the moderation gateway. On 4/15/2017 6:46 PM, Paulo Portela wrote: > Team of IDLE, > > First of all thanks for the effort of doing this tool. > > On the Mac, when clicking ?About IDLE?, it is written: > ?Python?s Integrated DeveLopment Environment? Yes, this is the original awkward 'acronym'. It *was* also on https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/idle-dev > But when click on "IDLE Help? it is written: > ?IDLE is Python?s Integrated Development and Learning Environment? I suggested this improvement on this list in August or September 2015, and Guido agreed. I change IDLE Help and the StackOverflow python-idle tag description, but did not finish. > In my opinion, it should be the last definition on both places (About IDLE and IDLE Help). I agree; I just got an idle-dev admin password and the first things I did were to release your post and change the web page intro. I am currently working on About IDLE and this will be the first change to the prose section above the buttons. -- Terry Jan Reedy From tjreedy at udel.edu Tue Jun 6 15:45:45 2017 From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2017 15:45:45 -0400 Subject: [Idle-dev] About IDLE vs IDLE Help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Paulo, idle-dev normally requires a subscription to post, and you will need to subscribe should you with to respond on the list. But because this is timely, and wanted to respond, I passed it through the moderation gateway. On 4/15/2017 6:46 PM, Paulo Portela wrote: > Team of IDLE, > > First of all thanks for the effort of doing this tool. > > On the Mac, when clicking ?About IDLE?, it is written: > ?Python?s Integrated DeveLopment Environment? Yes, this is the original awkward 'acronym'. It *was* also on https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/idle-dev > But when click on "IDLE Help? it is written: > ?IDLE is Python?s Integrated Development and Learning Environment? I suggested this improvement on this list in August or September 2015, and Guido agreed. I change IDLE Help and the StackOverflow python-idle tag description, but did not finish. > In my opinion, it should be the last definition on both places (About IDLE and IDLE Help). I agree; I just got an idle-dev admin password and the first things I did were to release your post and change the web page intro. I am currently working on About IDLE and this will be the first change to the prose section above the buttons. -- Terry Jan Reedy From tjreedy at udel.edu Tue Jun 6 16:37:13 2017 From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2017 16:37:13 -0400 Subject: [Idle-dev] About IDLE vs IDLE Help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 6/6/2017 3:10 PM, Sean Felipe Wolfe wrote: > Should be a pretty straightforward change -- how about a pull request? Thank you for the offer, but I already plan to do this as part of revamping About IDLE. See below. > Speaking of which -- IDLE is still using bitbucket and bzr yes ? As > opposed to git? Is there a separate repository at this point or is it > coupled to the Python main line? IDLE is still part of the main Python repository. Until Feb 10, we used mercurial (hg) hosted on hg.python.org. We are now using git at github.com/python/cpython. A big change is switching from merging forward to 'default', which was generally easy, to backporting from master, which is much harder. I am not yet able to properly test backports, and I have stopped merging PRs into master until I can. A positive effect of the switch is that two new contributors are submitting PRs for IDLE. What I now need more than more code is reviews of both design and submitted code. For instance, in 2015, we briefly discussed here revamping and modernizing About IDLE. I am no longer constrained from doing so by back-compatibility concerns. Some possible (?) and definite (!) changes: 1? Black on white instead of white on gray. 2! ...Development and Learning Environment 3! link to subscription page. The directly email dates to before subscription was required (due to numerous off-topic and spam posts). 3b. Direct support questions to other forums. 4! Make docs url a link to open page in browser. (Will need testing on 3 major systems.) 5? Replace buttons with blue links, even if open in text viewer instead of browser. (Inspired by About Notepad++.) 6? Move "Python License and Copyright" to bottom, delete Credits. 7? Readme has changed from user summary to a guide to idlelib aimed at contributors. Making 'README' a link embedding in a sentence would allow a short explanation. 8? 'NEWS' => "What's New" 9. Credits is a decade out of date and should be either deleted from About or updated somehow. Any comments? -- Terry Jan Reedy From me at louie.lu Wed Jun 14 01:48:43 2017 From: me at louie.lu (Louie Lu) Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2017 13:48:43 +0800 Subject: [Idle-dev] IDLE internal layout Message-ID: (Due to idle-dev mailing list low traffic, this mail was sent to python-dev and idle-dev) Hi all, I'm now trying to figure out IDLE internal relation. I got some module dependency graph and count. The work is at HackMD: https://hackmd.io/IwNg7AphDGBmsFoAsBOCAmZAGMBDBKsArEgruuiEkQCa5YBGsNQA Is there any previous material on this topic? thanks Louie. From me at louie.lu Wed Jun 14 08:59:08 2017 From: me at louie.lu (Louie Lu) Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2017 20:59:08 +0800 Subject: [Idle-dev] [Python-Dev] IDLE internal layout In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I generate these picture with no-external, so it won't show up about importlib.import_module calls (I think) I'll try to modify the code, and re-generated the pic with importlib. 2017-06-14 20:45 GMT+08:00 Terry Reedy : > On 6/14/2017 1:48 AM, Louie Lu wrote: >> >> (Due to idle-dev mailing list low traffic, this mail was sent to >> python-dev and idle-dev) > > >> I'm now trying to figure out IDLE internal relation. >> I got some module dependency graph and count. >> >> The work is at HackMD: >> >> https://hackmd.io/IwNg7AphDGBmsFoAsBOCAmZAGMBDBKsArEgruuiEkQCa5YBGsNQA >> >> Is there any previous material on this topic? > > > Not that I know of. There are many delayed imports in idlelib. At least one > is to avoid circular import error, as I discovered when I tried to move it > to the top as suggested by PEP8. > > Thanks for finding the site and producing the .pngs. Even though missing a > few links from importlib.import_module calls, they will be helpful. I saved > the 2nd one locally so I can view it at full size. > > (The left column links such as debugger.py linking to 'debugger.py' are > nonsensical.) > > -- > Terry Jan Reedy > > _______________________________________________ > Python-Dev mailing list > Python-Dev at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/me%40louie.lu