From roger.serwy at gmail.com Mon Dec 12 16:59:18 2011 From: roger.serwy at gmail.com (Roger Serwy) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 09:59:18 -0600 Subject: [Idle-dev] Fixing and Improving IDLE Message-ID: <4EE624D6.9050407@gmail.com> IDLE Developers, By my count there are over 110 valid open issues against IDLE, some minor and others major. Let's try to make that number smaller. Here is a partial list of issues that have working patches: 3573 IDLE hangs when passing invalid command line args (directory(ies) instead of file(s)) 5219 IDLE/Tkinter: edit win stops updating when tooltip is active 6698 IDLE no longer opens only an edit window when configured to do so 6699 IDLE: Warn user about overwriting a file that has a newer version on filesystem 7136 Idle File Menu Option Improvement 7676 IDLE shell shouldn't use TABs 8515 idle "Run Module" (F5) does not set __file__ variable 8900 IDLE crashes if Preference set to At Startup -> Open Edit Window 13039 IDLE editor: shell-like behaviour on line starting with ">>>" 13179 IDLE uses common tkinter variables across all editor windows 13495 IDLE: Regression - Two ColorDelegator instances loaded 13506 IDLE sys.path does not contain Current Working Directory Can these patches be applied? I understand that there will be need for some discussion, but we should try to avoid the bike shed problem. Not surprisingly, there are a lot of "duplicate" bug reports. Some issues deal with invalid key bindings and should have a common solution: 4765, 5707, 6739, 11437, 12387, 13071. (IdleX already has a work-around for these issues.) Other issues deal with permission error handling of configHandler.py: 4625, 8231, 9404, 9925. One major patch which requires some updating and much consideration is: 10079 idlelib for Python 3 with Guilherme Polo GSoC enhancements There are a lot of good improvements in there. I am willing to help with fixing the remaining bugs if the IDLE developers are willing to help as well. - Roger From ether.joe at gmail.com Mon Dec 12 20:30:25 2011 From: ether.joe at gmail.com (Sean Wolfe) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 16:30:25 -0300 Subject: [Idle-dev] Fixing and Improving IDLE In-Reply-To: <4EE624D6.9050407@gmail.com> References: <4EE624D6.9050407@gmail.com> Message-ID: Nice to see this mail! I'm a big fan of IDLE though and it's nice to see. I'm not really a IDLE developer yet but I'm boning up on tkinter to try and help out in the future... maybe in time to help out with this. Did you guys catch this article? I think so cause there are a lot of comments. Anyhow, I dig a lot of the suggestions. http://inventwithpython.com/blog/2011/11/29/the-things-i-hate-about-idle-that-i-wish-someone-would-fix/ On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 12:59 PM, Roger Serwy wrote: > IDLE Developers, > > By my count there are over 110 valid open issues against IDLE, some minor > and others major. Let's try to make that number smaller. > > Here is a partial list of issues that have working patches: > > 3573 ? ?IDLE hangs when passing invalid command line args (directory(ies) > instead of file(s)) > 5219 ? ?IDLE/Tkinter: edit win stops updating when tooltip is active > 6698 ? ?IDLE no longer opens only an edit window when configured to do so > 6699 ? ?IDLE: Warn user about overwriting a file that has a newer version on > filesystem > 7136 ? ?Idle File Menu Option Improvement > 7676 ? ?IDLE shell shouldn't use TABs > 8515 ? ?idle "Run Module" (F5) does not set __file__ variable > 8900 ? ?IDLE crashes if Preference set to At Startup -> Open Edit Window > 13039 ? IDLE editor: shell-like behaviour on line starting with ">>>" > 13179 ? IDLE uses common tkinter variables across all editor windows > 13495 ? IDLE: Regression - Two ColorDelegator instances loaded > 13506 ? IDLE sys.path does not contain Current Working Directory > > Can these patches be applied? I understand that there will be need for some > discussion, but we should try to avoid the bike shed problem. > > Not surprisingly, there are a lot of "duplicate" bug reports. Some issues > deal with invalid key bindings and should have a common solution: 4765, > 5707, 6739, 11437, 12387, 13071. (IdleX already has a work-around for these > issues.) Other issues deal with permission error handling of > configHandler.py: 4625, 8231, 9404, 9925. > > One major patch which requires some updating and much consideration is: > 10079 ? idlelib for Python 3 with Guilherme Polo GSoC enhancements > There are a lot of good improvements in there. > > I am willing to help with fixing the remaining bugs if the IDLE developers > are willing to help as well. > > - Roger > > _______________________________________________ > IDLE-dev mailing list > IDLE-dev at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/idle-dev -- A musician must make music, an artist must paint, a poet must write, if he is to be ultimately at peace with himself. - Abraham Maslow From roger.serwy at gmail.com Mon Dec 12 21:16:30 2011 From: roger.serwy at gmail.com (Roger Serwy) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 14:16:30 -0600 Subject: [Idle-dev] Fixing and Improving IDLE In-Reply-To: References: <4EE624D6.9050407@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4EE6611E.6090809@gmail.com> I am glad that you are willing to help with fixing IDLE. Tkinter experience is not a strong prerequisite; you can contribute simply by testing patches already provided and giving your feedback. With more reviewers we can iron-out any unanticipated side-effects. I can offer what I know about IDLE's internals if you or anyone else needs it (while it is still fresh in my memory) . Al Sweigart's article discusses several important shortcomings of IDLE. Nick Coghlan created a meta-issue for it: #13504. Some of those issues are actually fixed in IdleX. On 12/12/2011 01:30 PM, Sean Wolfe wrote: > Nice to see this mail! I'm a big fan of IDLE though and it's nice to > see. I'm not really a IDLE developer yet but I'm boning up on tkinter > to try and help out in the future... maybe in time to help out with > this. > > Did you guys catch this article? I think so cause there are a lot of > comments. Anyhow, I dig a lot of the suggestions. > http://inventwithpython.com/blog/2011/11/29/the-things-i-hate-about-idle-that-i-wish-someone-would-fix/ > > > On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 12:59 PM, Roger Serwy wrote: >> IDLE Developers, >> >> By my count there are over 110 valid open issues against IDLE, some minor >> and others major. Let's try to make that number smaller. >> >> Here is a partial list of issues that have working patches: >> >> 3573 IDLE hangs when passing invalid command line args (directory(ies) >> instead of file(s)) >> 5219 IDLE/Tkinter: edit win stops updating when tooltip is active >> 6698 IDLE no longer opens only an edit window when configured to do so >> 6699 IDLE: Warn user about overwriting a file that has a newer version on >> filesystem >> 7136 Idle File Menu Option Improvement >> 7676 IDLE shell shouldn't use TABs >> 8515 idle "Run Module" (F5) does not set __file__ variable >> 8900 IDLE crashes if Preference set to At Startup -> Open Edit Window >> 13039 IDLE editor: shell-like behaviour on line starting with ">>>" >> 13179 IDLE uses common tkinter variables across all editor windows >> 13495 IDLE: Regression - Two ColorDelegator instances loaded >> 13506 IDLE sys.path does not contain Current Working Directory >> >> Can these patches be applied? I understand that there will be need for some >> discussion, but we should try to avoid the bike shed problem. >> >> Not surprisingly, there are a lot of "duplicate" bug reports. Some issues >> deal with invalid key bindings and should have a common solution: 4765, >> 5707, 6739, 11437, 12387, 13071. (IdleX already has a work-around for these >> issues.) Other issues deal with permission error handling of >> configHandler.py: 4625, 8231, 9404, 9925. >> >> One major patch which requires some updating and much consideration is: >> 10079 idlelib for Python 3 with Guilherme Polo GSoC enhancements >> There are a lot of good improvements in there. >> >> I am willing to help with fixing the remaining bugs if the IDLE developers >> are willing to help as well. >> >> - Roger >> >> _______________________________________________ >> IDLE-dev mailing list >> IDLE-dev at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/idle-dev > > From ether.joe at gmail.com Mon Dec 12 21:58:04 2011 From: ether.joe at gmail.com (Sean Wolfe) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 17:58:04 -0300 Subject: [Idle-dev] Fixing and Improving IDLE In-Reply-To: <4EE6611E.6090809@gmail.com> References: <4EE624D6.9050407@gmail.com> <4EE6611E.6090809@gmail.com> Message-ID: Got it. Let me read up on idle hacking and familiarize myself with the bug tracker and I'll get back with you. What's idleX? Funny, I was thinking down the line of making my own fork of idle and calling it idleXL . Haha. On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Roger Serwy wrote: > I am glad that you are willing to help with fixing IDLE. Tkinter experience > is not a strong prerequisite; you can contribute simply by testing patches > already provided and giving your feedback. With more reviewers we can > iron-out any unanticipated side-effects. > > I can offer what I know about IDLE's internals if you or anyone else needs > it (while it is still fresh in my memory) . > > Al Sweigart's article discusses several important shortcomings of IDLE. Nick > Coghlan created a meta-issue for it: #13504. ?Some of those issues are > actually fixed in IdleX. > > > > On 12/12/2011 01:30 PM, Sean Wolfe wrote: >> >> Nice to see this mail! I'm a big fan of IDLE though and it's nice to >> see. I'm not really a IDLE developer yet but I'm boning up on tkinter >> to try and help out in the future... maybe in time to help out with >> this. >> >> Did you guys catch this article? I think so cause there are a lot of >> comments. Anyhow, I dig a lot of the suggestions. >> >> http://inventwithpython.com/blog/2011/11/29/the-things-i-hate-about-idle-that-i-wish-someone-would-fix/ >> >> >> On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 12:59 PM, Roger Serwy >> ?wrote: >>> >>> IDLE Developers, >>> >>> By my count there are over 110 valid open issues against IDLE, some minor >>> and others major. Let's try to make that number smaller. >>> >>> Here is a partial list of issues that have working patches: >>> >>> 3573 ? ?IDLE hangs when passing invalid command line args (directory(ies) >>> instead of file(s)) >>> 5219 ? ?IDLE/Tkinter: edit win stops updating when tooltip is active >>> 6698 ? ?IDLE no longer opens only an edit window when configured to do so >>> 6699 ? ?IDLE: Warn user about overwriting a file that has a newer version >>> on >>> filesystem >>> 7136 ? ?Idle File Menu Option Improvement >>> 7676 ? ?IDLE shell shouldn't use TABs >>> 8515 ? ?idle "Run Module" (F5) does not set __file__ variable >>> 8900 ? ?IDLE crashes if Preference set to At Startup -> ?Open Edit Window >>> 13039 ? IDLE editor: shell-like behaviour on line starting with ">>>" >>> 13179 ? IDLE uses common tkinter variables across all editor windows >>> 13495 ? IDLE: Regression - Two ColorDelegator instances loaded >>> 13506 ? IDLE sys.path does not contain Current Working Directory >>> >>> Can these patches be applied? I understand that there will be need for >>> some >>> discussion, but we should try to avoid the bike shed problem. >>> >>> Not surprisingly, there are a lot of "duplicate" bug reports. Some issues >>> deal with invalid key bindings and should have a common solution: 4765, >>> 5707, 6739, 11437, 12387, 13071. (IdleX already has a work-around for >>> these >>> issues.) Other issues deal with permission error handling of >>> configHandler.py: 4625, 8231, 9404, 9925. >>> >>> One major patch which requires some updating and much consideration is: >>> 10079 ? idlelib for Python 3 with Guilherme Polo GSoC enhancements >>> There are a lot of good improvements in there. >>> >>> I am willing to help with fixing the remaining bugs if the IDLE >>> developers >>> are willing to help as well. >>> >>> - Roger >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> IDLE-dev mailing list >>> IDLE-dev at python.org >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/idle-dev >> >> >> > -- A musician must make music, an artist must paint, a poet must write, if he is to be ultimately at peace with himself. - Abraham Maslow From roger.serwy at gmail.com Mon Dec 12 22:04:02 2011 From: roger.serwy at gmail.com (Roger Serwy) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 15:04:02 -0600 Subject: [Idle-dev] Fixing and Improving IDLE In-Reply-To: References: <4EE624D6.9050407@gmail.com> <4EE6611E.6090809@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4EE66C42.8010701@gmail.com> IdleX - http://idlex.sourceforge.net It's a collection of extensions and bug fixes for stock IDLE. It is not a fork as much as a wrapper. On 12/12/2011 02:58 PM, Sean Wolfe wrote: > Got it. Let me read up on idle hacking and familiarize myself with the > bug tracker and I'll get back with you. > > What's idleX? Funny, I was thinking down the line of making my own > fork of idle and calling it idleXL . Haha. > > > > On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Roger Serwy wrote: >> I am glad that you are willing to help with fixing IDLE. Tkinter experience >> is not a strong prerequisite; you can contribute simply by testing patches >> already provided and giving your feedback. With more reviewers we can >> iron-out any unanticipated side-effects. >> >> I can offer what I know about IDLE's internals if you or anyone else needs >> it (while it is still fresh in my memory) . >> >> Al Sweigart's article discusses several important shortcomings of IDLE. Nick >> Coghlan created a meta-issue for it: #13504. Some of those issues are >> actually fixed in IdleX. >> >> >> >> On 12/12/2011 01:30 PM, Sean Wolfe wrote: >>> Nice to see this mail! I'm a big fan of IDLE though and it's nice to >>> see. I'm not really a IDLE developer yet but I'm boning up on tkinter >>> to try and help out in the future... maybe in time to help out with >>> this. >>> >>> Did you guys catch this article? I think so cause there are a lot of >>> comments. Anyhow, I dig a lot of the suggestions. >>> >>> http://inventwithpython.com/blog/2011/11/29/the-things-i-hate-about-idle-that-i-wish-someone-would-fix/ >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 12:59 PM, Roger Serwy >>> wrote: >>>> IDLE Developers, >>>> >>>> By my count there are over 110 valid open issues against IDLE, some minor >>>> and others major. Let's try to make that number smaller. >>>> >>>> Here is a partial list of issues that have working patches: >>>> >>>> 3573 IDLE hangs when passing invalid command line args (directory(ies) >>>> instead of file(s)) >>>> 5219 IDLE/Tkinter: edit win stops updating when tooltip is active >>>> 6698 IDLE no longer opens only an edit window when configured to do so >>>> 6699 IDLE: Warn user about overwriting a file that has a newer version >>>> on >>>> filesystem >>>> 7136 Idle File Menu Option Improvement >>>> 7676 IDLE shell shouldn't use TABs >>>> 8515 idle "Run Module" (F5) does not set __file__ variable >>>> 8900 IDLE crashes if Preference set to At Startup -> Open Edit Window >>>> 13039 IDLE editor: shell-like behaviour on line starting with ">>>" >>>> 13179 IDLE uses common tkinter variables across all editor windows >>>> 13495 IDLE: Regression - Two ColorDelegator instances loaded >>>> 13506 IDLE sys.path does not contain Current Working Directory >>>> >>>> Can these patches be applied? I understand that there will be need for >>>> some >>>> discussion, but we should try to avoid the bike shed problem. >>>> >>>> Not surprisingly, there are a lot of "duplicate" bug reports. Some issues >>>> deal with invalid key bindings and should have a common solution: 4765, >>>> 5707, 6739, 11437, 12387, 13071. (IdleX already has a work-around for >>>> these >>>> issues.) Other issues deal with permission error handling of >>>> configHandler.py: 4625, 8231, 9404, 9925. >>>> >>>> One major patch which requires some updating and much consideration is: >>>> 10079 idlelib for Python 3 with Guilherme Polo GSoC enhancements >>>> There are a lot of good improvements in there. >>>> >>>> I am willing to help with fixing the remaining bugs if the IDLE >>>> developers >>>> are willing to help as well. >>>> >>>> - Roger >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> IDLE-dev mailing list >>>> IDLE-dev at python.org >>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/idle-dev >>> >>> > > From ether.joe at gmail.com Mon Dec 12 22:07:41 2011 From: ether.joe at gmail.com (Sean Wolfe) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 18:07:41 -0300 Subject: [Idle-dev] Fixing and Improving IDLE In-Reply-To: <4EE66C42.8010701@gmail.com> References: <4EE624D6.9050407@gmail.com> <4EE6611E.6090809@gmail.com> <4EE66C42.8010701@gmail.com> Message-ID: Ok, you know now, I remember seeing this. It has a lot of the stuff I want to see also, like tabbed windows and reordering. Cool! On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 6:04 PM, Roger Serwy wrote: > IdleX - http://idlex.sourceforge.net > > It's a collection of extensions and bug fixes for stock IDLE. It is not a > fork as much as a wrapper. > > > On 12/12/2011 02:58 PM, Sean Wolfe wrote: >> >> Got it. Let me read up on idle hacking and familiarize myself with the >> bug tracker and I'll get back with you. >> >> What's idleX? Funny, I was thinking down the line of making my own >> fork of idle and calling it idleXL . Haha. >> >> >> >> On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Roger Serwy >> ?wrote: >>> >>> I am glad that you are willing to help with fixing IDLE. Tkinter >>> experience >>> is not a strong prerequisite; you can contribute simply by testing >>> patches >>> already provided and giving your feedback. With more reviewers we can >>> iron-out any unanticipated side-effects. >>> >>> I can offer what I know about IDLE's internals if you or anyone else >>> needs >>> it (while it is still fresh in my memory) . >>> >>> Al Sweigart's article discusses several important shortcomings of IDLE. >>> Nick >>> Coghlan created a meta-issue for it: #13504. ?Some of those issues are >>> actually fixed in IdleX. >>> >>> >>> >>> On 12/12/2011 01:30 PM, Sean Wolfe wrote: >>>> >>>> Nice to see this mail! I'm a big fan of IDLE though and it's nice to >>>> see. I'm not really a IDLE developer yet but I'm boning up on tkinter >>>> to try and help out in the future... maybe in time to help out with >>>> this. >>>> >>>> Did you guys catch this article? I think so cause there are a lot of >>>> comments. Anyhow, I dig a lot of the suggestions. >>>> >>>> >>>> http://inventwithpython.com/blog/2011/11/29/the-things-i-hate-about-idle-that-i-wish-someone-would-fix/ >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 12:59 PM, Roger Serwy >>>> ?wrote: >>>>> >>>>> IDLE Developers, >>>>> >>>>> By my count there are over 110 valid open issues against IDLE, some >>>>> minor >>>>> and others major. Let's try to make that number smaller. >>>>> >>>>> Here is a partial list of issues that have working patches: >>>>> >>>>> 3573 ? ?IDLE hangs when passing invalid command line args >>>>> (directory(ies) >>>>> instead of file(s)) >>>>> 5219 ? ?IDLE/Tkinter: edit win stops updating when tooltip is active >>>>> 6698 ? ?IDLE no longer opens only an edit window when configured to do >>>>> so >>>>> 6699 ? ?IDLE: Warn user about overwriting a file that has a newer >>>>> version >>>>> on >>>>> filesystem >>>>> 7136 ? ?Idle File Menu Option Improvement >>>>> 7676 ? ?IDLE shell shouldn't use TABs >>>>> 8515 ? ?idle "Run Module" (F5) does not set __file__ variable >>>>> 8900 ? ?IDLE crashes if Preference set to At Startup -> ? ?Open Edit >>>>> Window >>>>> 13039 ? IDLE editor: shell-like behaviour on line starting with ">>>" >>>>> 13179 ? IDLE uses common tkinter variables across all editor windows >>>>> 13495 ? IDLE: Regression - Two ColorDelegator instances loaded >>>>> 13506 ? IDLE sys.path does not contain Current Working Directory >>>>> >>>>> Can these patches be applied? I understand that there will be need for >>>>> some >>>>> discussion, but we should try to avoid the bike shed problem. >>>>> >>>>> Not surprisingly, there are a lot of "duplicate" bug reports. Some >>>>> issues >>>>> deal with invalid key bindings and should have a common solution: 4765, >>>>> 5707, 6739, 11437, 12387, 13071. (IdleX already has a work-around for >>>>> these >>>>> issues.) Other issues deal with permission error handling of >>>>> configHandler.py: 4625, 8231, 9404, 9925. >>>>> >>>>> One major patch which requires some updating and much consideration is: >>>>> 10079 ? idlelib for Python 3 with Guilherme Polo GSoC enhancements >>>>> There are a lot of good improvements in there. >>>>> >>>>> I am willing to help with fixing the remaining bugs if the IDLE >>>>> developers >>>>> are willing to help as well. >>>>> >>>>> - Roger >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> IDLE-dev mailing list >>>>> IDLE-dev at python.org >>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/idle-dev >>>> >>>> >>>> >> >> > -- A musician must make music, an artist must paint, a poet must write, if he is to be ultimately at peace with himself. - Abraham Maslow From taleinat at gmail.com Wed Dec 14 15:05:48 2011 From: taleinat at gmail.com (Tal Einat) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 16:05:48 +0200 Subject: [Idle-dev] Fixing and Improving IDLE In-Reply-To: References: <4EE624D6.9050407@gmail.com> <4EE6611E.6090809@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 10:58 PM, Sean Wolfe wrote: > > What's idleX? Funny, I was thinking down the line of making my own > fork of idle and calling it idleXL . Haha. > Please, if possible, avoid creating yet another fork of IDLE! History has shown that it is very difficult to merge features from a fork back into IDLE. Also, IDLE isn't getting too much developer attention as it is (except for Roger and Nick who have been doing a great job recently!), so it would be great to have your efforts contribute to IDLE directly, in coordination with the few current developers. - Tal Einat -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ether.joe at gmail.com Wed Dec 14 19:50:49 2011 From: ether.joe at gmail.com (Sean Wolfe) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 15:50:49 -0300 Subject: [Idle-dev] multiple Python versions and testing Message-ID: Looking over the bug list for IDLE, it looks like it will be useful for me to be running multiple Python versions, to be able to work on / test various versions. I personally haven't made the switch yet as my two favorite Pythonic things, Django and Pygame, are still in the 2.x world. Im currently running 2.7 for my personal projects. That being said though, I'm happy to give the 3.x world a shot. Is there anything I should keep in mind running multiple versions? Just make sure my PYTHONPATH and IDLEPATH, plus basic system path to my python binary, are where I want them? I'm assuming as idle devs you guys are running multiple versions. Any gotchas or special things I should be looking for? Anything that might invalidate testing? -- A musician must make music, an artist must paint, a poet must write, if he is to be ultimately at peace with himself. - Abraham Maslow From tjreedy at udel.edu Thu Dec 15 01:01:07 2011 From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 19:01:07 -0500 Subject: [Idle-dev] multiple Python versions and testing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 12/14/2011 1:50 PM, Sean Wolfe wrote: > Looking over the bug list for IDLE, it looks like it will be useful > for me to be running multiple Python versions, to be able to work on / > test various versions. I personally haven't made the switch yet as my > two favorite Pythonic things, Django and Pygame, are still in the 2.x > world. Im currently running 2.7 for my personal projects. That being > said though, I'm happy to give the 3.x world a shot. > Is there anything I should keep in mind running multiple versions? > Just make sure my PYTHONPATH and IDLEPATH, plus basic system path to > my python binary, are where I want them? I'm assuming as idle devs you > guys are running multiple versions. Any gotchas or special things I > should be looking for? Anything that might invalidate testing? On Windows, multiple versions are no problem except that the icons are labelled the same for each. Multiple versions of Python and IDLE running at the same time is ok. On *nix, I read that one should be careful to use altinstall so as to not clobber the system python, which may be used by system-dependent utilities. That said, even testing bugs and patch only on 2.7 is helpful, expecially if no one else has. -- Terry Jan Reedy From interstar at gmail.com Tue Dec 20 13:58:45 2011 From: interstar at gmail.com (phil jones) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 12:58:45 +0000 Subject: [Idle-dev] Fixing and Improving IDLE In-Reply-To: References: <4EE624D6.9050407@gmail.com> <4EE6611E.6090809@gmail.com> Message-ID: On the subject of forking and remerging etc. where's the IDLE code? Would it be a good idea to move it to GitHub or BitBucket under git or hg? Also, I'd suggest that if there's a page with information for developers, someone links to it from http://wiki.python.org/moin/IDLE regards phil On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 2:05 PM, Tal Einat wrote: > On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 10:58 PM, Sean Wolfe wrote: >> >> >> What's idleX? Funny, I was thinking down the line of making my own >> fork of idle and calling it idleXL . Haha. > > > Please, if possible, avoid creating yet another fork of IDLE! > > History has shown that it is very difficult to merge features from a fork > back into IDLE. > > Also, IDLE isn't getting too much developer attention as it is (except for > Roger and Nick who have been doing a great job recently!), so it would be > great to have your efforts contribute to IDLE directly, in coordination with > the few current developers. > > - Tal Einat > > _______________________________________________ > IDLE-dev mailing list > IDLE-dev at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/idle-dev > From roger.serwy at gmail.com Tue Dec 20 16:53:33 2011 From: roger.serwy at gmail.com (Roger Serwy) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 09:53:33 -0600 Subject: [Idle-dev] Fixing and Improving IDLE In-Reply-To: References: <4EE624D6.9050407@gmail.com> <4EE6611E.6090809@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4EF0AF7D.3010809@gmail.com> The IDLE code is included with the standard library. It can be found in the Mercurial repository referenced at http://docs.python.org/devguide/ I agree that the wiki should include this information. - Roger On 12/20/2011 06:58 AM, phil jones wrote: > On the subject of forking and remerging etc. where's the IDLE code? > > Would it be a good idea to move it to GitHub or BitBucket under git or hg? > > Also, I'd suggest that if there's a page with information for > developers, someone links to it from http://wiki.python.org/moin/IDLE > > regards > > phil > > On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 2:05 PM, Tal Einat wrote: >> On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 10:58 PM, Sean Wolfe wrote: >>> >>> What's idleX? Funny, I was thinking down the line of making my own >>> fork of idle and calling it idleXL . Haha. >> >> Please, if possible, avoid creating yet another fork of IDLE! >> >> History has shown that it is very difficult to merge features from a fork >> back into IDLE. >> >> Also, IDLE isn't getting too much developer attention as it is (except for >> Roger and Nick who have been doing a great job recently!), so it would be >> great to have your efforts contribute to IDLE directly, in coordination with >> the few current developers. >> >> - Tal Einat >> >> _______________________________________________ >> IDLE-dev mailing list >> IDLE-dev at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/idle-dev >> > _______________________________________________ > IDLE-dev mailing list > IDLE-dev at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/idle-dev > From interstar at gmail.com Tue Dec 20 17:40:43 2011 From: interstar at gmail.com (phil jones) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 16:40:43 +0000 Subject: [Idle-dev] Fixing and Improving IDLE In-Reply-To: <4EF0AF7D.3010809@gmail.com> References: <4EE624D6.9050407@gmail.com> <4EE6611E.6090809@gmail.com> <4EF0AF7D.3010809@gmail.com> Message-ID: Seems a bit of overkill to have to check out the entire developers edition of python. Doesn't hg have submodules? Even if IDLE is in the standard library, it must be possible to treat it as a separate project from the developer's perspective and then merge it in when building a distribution. phil On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 3:53 PM, Roger Serwy wrote: > The IDLE code is included with the standard library. It can be found in the > Mercurial repository referenced at http://docs.python.org/devguide/ > > I agree that the wiki should include this information. > > - Roger > > > On 12/20/2011 06:58 AM, phil jones wrote: >> >> On the subject of forking and remerging etc. where's the IDLE code? >> >> Would it be a good idea to move it to GitHub or BitBucket under git or hg? >> >> Also, I'd suggest that if there's a page with information for >> developers, someone links to it from http://wiki.python.org/moin/IDLE >> >> regards >> >> phil >> >> On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 2:05 PM, Tal Einat ?wrote: >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 10:58 PM, Sean Wolfe ?wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> What's idleX? Funny, I was thinking down the line of making my own >>>> fork of idle and calling it idleXL . Haha. >>> >>> >>> Please, if possible, avoid creating yet another fork of IDLE! >>> >>> History has shown that it is very difficult to merge features from a fork >>> back into IDLE. >>> >>> Also, IDLE isn't getting too much developer attention as it is (except >>> for >>> Roger and Nick who have been doing a great job recently!), so it would be >>> great to have your efforts contribute to IDLE directly, in coordination >>> with >>> the few current developers. >>> >>> - Tal Einat >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> IDLE-dev mailing list >>> IDLE-dev at python.org >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/idle-dev >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> IDLE-dev mailing list >> IDLE-dev at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/idle-dev >> > From roger.serwy at gmail.com Tue Dec 20 23:25:43 2011 From: roger.serwy at gmail.com (Roger Serwy) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 16:25:43 -0600 Subject: [Idle-dev] Fixing and Improving IDLE In-Reply-To: References: <4EE624D6.9050407@gmail.com> <4EE6611E.6090809@gmail.com> <4EF0AF7D.3010809@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4EF10B67.2050205@gmail.com> As far as I know, Mercurial does not support partial checkout. See http://mercurial.selenic.com/bts/issue105 - Roger On 12/20/2011 10:40 AM, phil jones wrote: > Seems a bit of overkill to have to check out the entire developers > edition of python. > > Doesn't hg have submodules? Even if IDLE is in the standard library, > it must be possible to treat it as a separate project from the > developer's perspective and then merge it in when building a > distribution. > > phil > > On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 3:53 PM, Roger Serwy wrote: >> The IDLE code is included with the standard library. It can be found in the >> Mercurial repository referenced at http://docs.python.org/devguide/ >> >> I agree that the wiki should include this information. >> >> - Roger >> >> >> On 12/20/2011 06:58 AM, phil jones wrote: >>> On the subject of forking and remerging etc. where's the IDLE code? >>> >>> Would it be a good idea to move it to GitHub or BitBucket under git or hg? >>> >>> Also, I'd suggest that if there's a page with information for >>> developers, someone links to it from http://wiki.python.org/moin/IDLE >>> >>> regards >>> >>> phil >>> >>> On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 2:05 PM, Tal Einat wrote: >>>> On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 10:58 PM, Sean Wolfe wrote: >>>>> >>>>> What's idleX? Funny, I was thinking down the line of making my own >>>>> fork of idle and calling it idleXL . Haha. >>>> >>>> Please, if possible, avoid creating yet another fork of IDLE! >>>> >>>> History has shown that it is very difficult to merge features from a fork >>>> back into IDLE. >>>> >>>> Also, IDLE isn't getting too much developer attention as it is (except >>>> for >>>> Roger and Nick who have been doing a great job recently!), so it would be >>>> great to have your efforts contribute to IDLE directly, in coordination >>>> with >>>> the few current developers. >>>> >>>> - Tal Einat >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> IDLE-dev mailing list >>>> IDLE-dev at python.org >>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/idle-dev >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> IDLE-dev mailing list >>> IDLE-dev at python.org >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/idle-dev >>> From tjreedy at udel.edu Wed Dec 21 00:45:48 2011 From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 18:45:48 -0500 Subject: [Idle-dev] Fixing and Improving IDLE In-Reply-To: <4EF10B67.2050205@gmail.com> References: <4EE624D6.9050407@gmail.com> <4EE6611E.6090809@gmail.com> <4EF0AF7D.3010809@gmail.com> <4EF10B67.2050205@gmail.com> Message-ID: I have considered the possibility of separating IDLE, but I see two problems. 1. Although the IDLE code is currently very similar for each current Python version, it is not exactly the same. Py2/Py3 differences are obvious. Less obvious is that if we use ttk widgets, such as tabbed windows, as has been proposed, we might not want to backport to 2.7 IDLE, or even 3.2 IDLE. Or we might want to use a new 3.3 feature elsewhere in Python for 3.3 IDLE. An example of version differences from rpc.py, line 107: print>>erf, '\n' + '-'*40 print('\n' + '-'*40, file=erf) We could use __future__ imports to make the code more uniform. But I would ask on pydev list before doing so. 2. Each IDLE version has to run with the corresponding release and therefore should be tested with the current development version of each release. If any patch, even a bugfix, breaks IDLE, we should know as soon as possible, not on release day. -- Terry Jan Reedy