From tjreedy at udel.edu Fri Apr 1 06:28:51 2011 From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy) Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 00:28:51 -0400 Subject: [Idle-dev] IDLE Extension - Prompt goes missing In-Reply-To: References: <31258787.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: On 3/31/2011 2:13 AM, Tal Einat wrote: > See Lib/idlelib/extend.txt for details on extensions. Thank you. I read it but did not find it completely clear. If I figure out what I have missed, I will try to suggest a patch ;-). I need to look at examples more, first. -- Terry Jan Reedy From tjreedy at udel.edu Fri Apr 1 06:40:03 2011 From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy) Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 00:40:03 -0400 Subject: [Idle-dev] IDLE Extension - Prompt goes missing In-Reply-To: <31286762.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <31258787.post@talk.nabble.com> <31284056.post@talk.nabble.com> <31286762.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: On 3/31/2011 10:10 AM, phelix wrote: > > ok, finally I got it. > > I fell for a bug that Noam Raphael pointed out and supplied a patch for > eight years ago (http://old.nabble.com/Fix-freezes!-td1182996.html). It is > still present in Idle 3.2. I guess IDLE development really is slow =) - this > must change! That refers to an issue in the IDLEfork tracker filed after the last independent release of IDLEfork. I am not sure when IDLEfork was merged into trunk, but I suspect that a few legitimate bug reports were not copied over. This one, by Bruce Sherwood, may or may not be on the current tracker, but it is on my personal todo list: "Not sure whether this should be a bug report or a feature request, but it would be really nice if a file save would by default supply the important .py extension. Without it, colorizing doesn't work, which is confusing to people. And of course there are other good reasons for wanting the .py extension on Python files." -- Terry Jan Reedy From taleinat at gmail.com Fri Apr 1 14:56:11 2011 From: taleinat at gmail.com (Tal Einat) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 15:56:11 +0300 Subject: [Idle-dev] IDLE Extension - Prompt goes missing In-Reply-To: References: <31258787.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 7:28 AM, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 3/31/2011 2:13 AM, Tal Einat wrote: > > See Lib/idlelib/extend.txt for details on extensions. >> > > Thank you. I read it but did not find it completely clear. > If I figure out what I have missed, I will try to suggest a patch ;-). > I need to look at examples more, first. Note that installing a new extension (e.g. from PyPI) is a hassle, so new extensions die quickly if they aren't integrated into IDLE. I think extensions would be much more useful given a config dialog for configuring each extension separately. My patch for this has been sitting around for years: issue3068 . Admittedly I was given the go-ahead to make such changes to IDLE directly and commit them, but unfortunately I haven't found the time required for this since. - Tal -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nabble at traction.de Wed Apr 13 00:35:47 2011 From: nabble at traction.de (phelix) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 15:35:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Idle-dev] AutoCompletePlus Extension - some Rope features, self. completion Message-ID: <31383404.post@talk.nabble.com> Hi! I made an extension to extend the auto completion. Probably it still has a couple of bugs in it but mostly it works but I want to show you guys early and get some feedback. To be honest, the whole thing was harder than I thought and I had to try some different strategies. Though IDLE is easy to modify/extend there is some tough stuff going on in there. What does it do? * It adds auto completion for "self" by adding to the completion list (@Tal: you were right, this is much better). If there is an instance of the class defined it uses that. * If rope is installed it adds rope completions for the current file. (@Tal: again, thanks for the suggestion) I still wonder if / how to add rope completion for the whole package. I could probably set the rope project folder to the folder of the current file. An alternative would be to add a magic comment. Tested quickly with python 2.6, 2.7, 3.2, rope 0.9.2 Please check it out at http://10pulse.com/idle http://10pulse.com/idle/ and let me know what you think. =Phelix= -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/AutoCompletePlus-Extension---some-Rope-features%2C-self.-completion-tp31383404p31383404.html Sent from the Python - idle-dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From nabble at traction.de Wed Apr 13 01:07:11 2011 From: nabble at traction.de (phelix) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 16:07:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Idle-dev] Suggestions idle-dev Message-ID: <31383544.post@talk.nabble.com> Over the last couple of months I have collected a couple of small but imho important modifications / bugs to make working with IDLE smoother. But I would prefer very much to discuss these in a more active environment. Taking part in IDLE-development seems very hard, though it really does not have to be. On the code-side everything is fine but marketing-wise things are not so good. Just take this mailing list. I am in my thirties and to me it looks like from the stone age. Who wants his eMail-account spammed with a mailing list? I would prefer a regular forum and I think a lot of people would, especially the younger ones. Also this list is hard to find. It is not mentioned anywhere on the idle-homepage and not very obvious in the program. Compare the spyder homepage and the idle-homepage: http://packages.python.org/spyder/ http://packages.python.org/spyder/ http://docs.python.org/library/idle.html http://docs.python.org/library/idle.html I am not talking about fancy graphics but only missing information. Why not display something in the splash-screen like: idle development is easy, contribute at ... I really like working with IDLE and it being coded in Python and easy to modify and all but seing how slow it is improving makes me sad. Especially the small things count for a smooth workflow. Very many people start out with IDLE and it is a missed chance to give them an unsmooth IDE. best, =Phelix= -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Suggestions-idle-dev-tp31383544p31383544.html Sent from the Python - idle-dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From interstar at gmail.com Wed Apr 13 01:35:57 2011 From: interstar at gmail.com (phil jones) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 00:35:57 +0100 Subject: [Idle-dev] Suggestions idle-dev In-Reply-To: <31383544.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <31383544.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: I agree. It would be nice to get into hacking on Idle, but I've never really found my way into it. A couple of things. Is there a source-code repository on Github (or some Mercurial equivalent) where everyone can see the work-in-progress? Is IDLE still part of the Python standard package? I use Ubuntu and I always find I have to install Idle separately from Python. I don't know if this is a Ubuntu perversity or whether Idle is now a stand-alone thing. Given that people always seem to have problems getting patches into the standard distribution maybe stand-alone would be better. But who would make this decision? I don't have a problem with a mailing list. But I agree, a URL to an idle-dev central (place for developers hang out with links to this mailing list, the repository, IRC etc.) would be great. phil On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 12:07 AM, phelix wrote: > > Over the last couple of months I have collected a couple of small but imho > important modifications / bugs to make working with IDLE smoother. But I > would prefer very much to discuss these in a more active environment. > > Taking part in IDLE-development seems very hard, though it really does not > have to be. On the code-side everything is fine but marketing-wise things > are not so good. Just take this mailing list. I am in my thirties and to me > it looks like from the stone age. Who wants his eMail-account spammed with a > mailing list? I would prefer a regular forum and I think a lot of people > would, especially the younger ones. > > Also this list is hard to find. It is not mentioned anywhere on the > idle-homepage and not very obvious in the program. > > Compare the spyder homepage and the idle-homepage: > http://packages.python.org/spyder/ http://packages.python.org/spyder/ > http://docs.python.org/library/idle.html > http://docs.python.org/library/idle.html > I am not talking about fancy graphics but only missing information. > > Why not display something in the splash-screen like: idle development is > easy, contribute at ... > > I really like working with IDLE and it being coded in Python and easy to > modify and all but seing how slow it is improving makes me sad. Especially > the small things count for a smooth workflow. > > Very many people start out with IDLE and it is a missed chance to give them > an unsmooth IDE. > > best, > > =Phelix= > > -- > View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Suggestions-idle-dev-tp31383544p31383544.html > Sent from the Python - idle-dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > IDLE-dev mailing list > IDLE-dev at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/idle-dev > From interstar at gmail.com Wed Apr 13 01:59:58 2011 From: interstar at gmail.com (phil jones) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 00:59:58 +0100 Subject: [Idle-dev] Talking of updates to IDLE Message-ID: Did the VIDLE changes and fixes ever get back into normal IDLE? phil From Bruce_Sherwood at ncsu.edu Wed Apr 13 02:16:11 2011 From: Bruce_Sherwood at ncsu.edu (Bruce Sherwood) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 18:16:11 -0600 Subject: [Idle-dev] Talking of updates to IDLE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: As far as I know, no. It's a good example of the very slow pace of making changes. The VIDLE work was completed by Guilherme Polo in the 2009 Google Summer of Code, in a Python-community sanctioned project, and Guido has given his blessing to the changes, but the process for getting changes into the standard IDLE distribution remains opaque and glacial. I gather it isn't anyone's "fault", and people are busy, but somehow IDLE is an orphan in comparison with other aspects of Python. Bruce Sherwood On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 5:59 PM, phil jones wrote: > Did the VIDLE changes and fixes ever get back into normal IDLE? > > > phil > _______________________________________________ > IDLE-dev mailing list > IDLE-dev at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/idle-dev > From taleinat at gmail.com Wed Apr 13 02:23:32 2011 From: taleinat at gmail.com (Tal Einat) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 03:23:32 +0300 Subject: [Idle-dev] Talking of updates to IDLE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Unfortunately, no. I volunteered to do so about six months ago, but ended up not be able to free the time required. If anyone else wants to do this, go ahead, I haven't even made any significant progress :( On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 2:59 AM, phil jones wrote: > Did the VIDLE changes and fixes ever get back into normal IDLE? > > > phil > _______________________________________________ > IDLE-dev mailing list > IDLE-dev at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/idle-dev > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nad at acm.org Wed Apr 13 03:06:20 2011 From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 18:06:20 -0700 Subject: [Idle-dev] Suggestions idle-dev References: <31383544.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: In article , phil jones wrote: > On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 12:07 AM, phelix wrote: > > Over the last couple of months I have collected a couple of small but imho > > important modifications / bugs to make working with IDLE smoother. But I > > would prefer very much to discuss these in a more active environment. > > > > Taking part in IDLE-development seems very hard, though it really does not > > have to be. On the code-side everything is fine but marketing-wise things > > are not so good. Just take this mailing list. I am in my thirties and to me > > it looks like from the stone age. Who wants his eMail-account spammed with > > a > > mailing list? I would prefer a regular forum and I think a lot of people > > would, especially the younger ones. > > > > Also this list is hard to find. It is not mentioned anywhere on the > > idle-homepage and not very obvious in the program. The IDLE-dev mailing list is one of many hosted by python.org. See http://www.python.org/community/lists/ for the link to the complete list here: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo If you would prefer other formats, the mailing list is mirrored elsewhere. In particular, gmane.org offers a bi-directional mirror of the list is several formats, including web-based blog and NNTP newsfeeds: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.idle > A couple of things. Is there a source-code repository on Github (or > some Mercurial equivalent) where everyone can see the > work-in-progress? IDLE is part of the Python standard library. It resides in Lib/idlelib with the Python source tree. The "default" branch of the tree is where all feature work happens; it will be what is released as Python 3.3. You can view the source here: http://hg.python.org/cpython/file/default/Lib/idlelib The code for other branches can be viewed here: http://hg.python.org/cpython/branches where 3.2 is what is in progress for 3.2.1, 3.1 for 3.1.4 (likely the last bug fix release for 3.1), and 2.7 for 2.7.2. Older branches are closed except for critical security fixes. There is a newly written Python Developer's Guide which describes the whole process of how to develop and contribute fixes and features for Python in general. It applies to IDLE as well: http://docs.python.org/devguide/ > Is IDLE still part of the Python standard package? I use Ubuntu and I > always find I have to install Idle separately from Python. I don't > know if this is a Ubuntu perversity or whether Idle is now a > stand-alone thing. Given that people always seem to have problems > getting patches into the standard distribution maybe stand-alone would > be better. But who would make this decision? Some distributors of Python, like Ubuntu and Debian, choose to break out IDLE and other parts of the standard library into separate packages. Other distributions, like those from python.org/downloads, do not. Presumably, the rationale for making IDLE a separate package might be because of its dependency on Tcl/Tk. Technically, IDLE uses the Python standard library Tkinter module which is dependent on Tcl/Tk. IMO, that dependency on Tcl/Tk is both IDLE's strength and weakness. (I should state that these are my opinions based on working on various recent fixes for IDLE on Mac OS X and not so much as an IDLE user.) The plus is that Tk is implemented on many platforms and thus gives IDLE and other Tkinter-based graphical apps high-level platform independence. But the weakness is that Tcl/Tk itself is aging and does not always provide a native look-and-feel. Or there are significant compromises made on a platform to maintain that platform independence. (The various Mac OS X "native" Tcl/Tk implementations are a prime example.) Longer term, a replacement for IDLE using a more modern GUI interface would be an interesting project. That really means finding a replacement for Tkinter in the standard library. One of the most promising efforts for that is Greg Ewing's PyGUI project: http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/greg.ewing/python_gui/ I'd love to see someone try to reimplement IDLE using it. That would go a long way towards helping to "get the library and its documentation included in the core Python distribution", a stated goal of PyGUI. In the mean time, both IDLE and Tkinter are underrepresented in the Python development community. They both could use more help. Your patches are welcome. The best thing to do is to follow the standard process outlined in the devguide and submit patches through the standard bug tracker. Another big, big help would be to update and test submitted patches on the various Tk platforms: Windows, Unix X-windows, Mac OS X Aqua. Reporting the results on the bug tracker can help to move things along. I, for one, would be much more likely to commit a fix if there were independent confirmation that it is up-to-date and works as documented (which implies some sort of documentation, too). And yet another big area is documentation for IDLE. Currently, it is very sparse, between IDLE's build-in help file and the standard docs. The source for both are included in the source tree so doc patches for them would also be very welcome. At the moment, there are no tests for IDLE that I am aware of, at least in the standard library. This is a big problem for developers (like me) when wanting to add fixes or features. Currently, there is no way to regression test fixes without time-consuming hit-or-miss manual testing which really needs to be done on at least what I think of as the three major variants (Windows, OS X, X11). Few people have the know-how or setup to do that. Python has a good and growing test base but very little at the moment for GUI testing. An IDLE test base would be a huge step forward in that area. So, lots of ideas and possibilities. As with most all-volunteer open source projects, what happens is really up to those of us who step up and dig in. -- Ned Deily, nad at acm.org From nad at acm.org Wed Apr 13 03:20:44 2011 From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 18:20:44 -0700 Subject: [Idle-dev] Talking of updates to IDLE References: Message-ID: In article , Bruce Sherwood wrote: > As far as I know, no. It's a good example of the very slow pace of > making changes. The VIDLE work was completed by Guilherme Polo in the > 2009 Google Summer of Code, in a Python-community sanctioned project, > and Guido has given his blessing to the changes, but the process for > getting changes into the standard IDLE distribution remains opaque and > glacial. I gather it isn't anyone's "fault", and people are busy, but > somehow IDLE is an orphan in comparison with other aspects of Python. It's not so much opaque as it is time-consuming and a fair amount of work. I promised to review them and get them in and I'm still intending to do that. I'm sorry it's taking this long. For one thing, getting the 3.2 release out the door turned got in the way. The fixes themselves need work to be upgraded to the latest releases and then there is testing that needs to be done on all platforms. If anyone is willing to help out with the testing, especially experienced Windows users of IDLE, it would be a great to have your help when ready. -- Ned Deily, nad at acm.org From taleinat at gmail.com Wed Apr 13 04:37:44 2011 From: taleinat at gmail.com (Tal Einat) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 05:37:44 +0300 Subject: [Idle-dev] Talking of updates to IDLE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I would be willing to help with testing, and have quite some experience with testing IDLE. On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 4:20 AM, Ned Deily wrote: > In article , > Bruce Sherwood wrote: > > As far as I know, no. It's a good example of the very slow pace of > > making changes. The VIDLE work was completed by Guilherme Polo in the > > 2009 Google Summer of Code, in a Python-community sanctioned project, > > and Guido has given his blessing to the changes, but the process for > > getting changes into the standard IDLE distribution remains opaque and > > glacial. I gather it isn't anyone's "fault", and people are busy, but > > somehow IDLE is an orphan in comparison with other aspects of Python. > > It's not so much opaque as it is time-consuming and a fair amount of > work. I promised to review them and get them in and I'm still intending > to do that. I'm sorry it's taking this long. For one thing, getting > the 3.2 release out the door turned got in the way. The fixes > themselves need work to be upgraded to the latest releases and then > there is testing that needs to be done on all platforms. If anyone is > willing to help out with the testing, especially experienced Windows > users of IDLE, it would be a great to have your help when ready. > > -- > Ned Deily, > nad at acm.org > > _______________________________________________ > IDLE-dev mailing list > IDLE-dev at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/idle-dev > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nabble at traction.de Wed Apr 13 09:24:26 2011 From: nabble at traction.de (phelix) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 00:24:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Idle-dev] Talking of updates to IDLE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <31385488.post@talk.nabble.com> > If anyone is > willing to help out with the testing, especially experienced Windows > users of IDLE, it would be a great to have your help when ready. windows user, willing to test -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Talking-of-updates-to-IDLE-tp31383770p31385488.html Sent from the Python - idle-dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From interstar at gmail.com Wed Apr 13 10:20:12 2011 From: interstar at gmail.com (phil jones) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 09:20:12 +0100 Subject: [Idle-dev] Talking of updates to IDLE In-Reply-To: <31385488.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <31385488.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: I'd be willing to help with testing of IDLE on Ubuntu if there's a need for that. Is there a document (say a wiki page somewhere) which tells us what / how to test? phil On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 8:24 AM, phelix wrote: > >> If anyone is >> willing to help out with the testing, especially experienced Windows >> users of IDLE, it would be a great to have your help when ready. > windows user, willing to test > -- > View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Talking-of-updates-to-IDLE-tp31383770p31385488.html > Sent from the Python - idle-dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > IDLE-dev mailing list > IDLE-dev at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/idle-dev > From nabble at traction.de Wed Apr 13 10:55:32 2011 From: nabble at traction.de (phelix) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 01:55:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Idle-dev] Suggestions idle-dev In-Reply-To: References: <31383544.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: <31385979.post@talk.nabble.com> >The IDLE-dev mailing list is one of many hosted by python.org. See >http://www.python.org/community/lists/ for the link to the complete list >here: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo I saw that. Only the main python discussion list is a newsgroup? >If you would prefer other formats, the mailing list is mirrored >elsewhere. In particular, gmane.org offers a bi-directional mirror of >the list is several formats, including web-based blog and NNTP newsfeeds: I am using old.nabble.com. But for someone not used to this stuff it is quite hard to get in compared to a forum. Maybe these alternative ways should be mentioned on the idle-dev list site http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/idle-dev http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/idle-dev or on the IDLE homepage. >There is a newly written Python Developer's Guide which describes the >whole process of how to develop and contribute fixes and features for >Python in general. It applies to IDLE as well: > > http://docs.python.org/devguide/ this sounds good, I will take a look at that >... >term, a replacement for IDLE using a more modern GUI interface would be >an interesting project. That really means finding a replacement for >Tkinter in the standard library. One of the most promising efforts for >that is Greg Ewing's PyGUI project: > > http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/greg.ewing/python_gui/ I'd love to see that project florish, too. But Tkinter does look native with ttk. And it is very easy to use. >In the mean time, both IDLE and Tkinter are underrepresented in the >Python development community. They both could use more help. Your I could not agree more, IDLE simply gets lost. >And yet another big area is documentation for IDLE. Currently, it is >very sparse, between IDLE's build-in help file and the standard docs. >The source for both are included in the source tree so doc patches for >them would also be very welcome. Doc patches seem really complicated to me. What about a wiki? I would like to make my suggestions more concrete: * easy access to idle-dev and/or description on the IDLE homepage * a wiki for IDLE development * a wiki for using IDLE * a bug-tracker aside from Python bug-tracker * a feature-tracker * all this accessible from the homepage * an invitation to contribute on the IDLE startup console or at least the about window and installer =Phelix= -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Suggestions-idle-dev-tp31383544p31385979.html Sent from the Python - idle-dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From interstar at gmail.com Wed Apr 13 11:56:42 2011 From: interstar at gmail.com (phil jones) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 10:56:42 +0100 Subject: [Idle-dev] Suggestions idle-dev In-Reply-To: <31385979.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <31383544.post@talk.nabble.com> <31385979.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: I can't help noticing that IDLE has a history of people forking it in order to get development work done faster (ie. Idlefork, VIDLE etc.) So it seems that to ramp up progress we may need our own space. (Eg.a wiki, a mercurial (or git) code repository, a bug tracker). Ideally, perhaps there could be a continuity with those other projects - are the people behind Idlefork and VIDLE reading this list? I know that those projects had specific goals, but I wonder whether there isn't a role for a standard Idle-fork project kept somewhere like Github or Butbucket which everyone who's interested in further development of Idle could work against. I know there'd still be an issue of getting this back into the main Python tree, but if it took off (and IDLE development was seen to have more direction and be moving faster) then there'd be more of an incentive for the rest of the Python development community to support that too. phil > > I would like to make my suggestions more concrete: > * easy access to idle-dev and/or description on the IDLE homepage > * a wiki for IDLE development > * a wiki for using IDLE > * a bug-tracker aside from Python bug-tracker > * a feature-tracker > * all this accessible from the homepage > * an invitation to contribute on the IDLE startup console or at least the > about window and installer > > =Phelix= From Bruce_Sherwood at ncsu.edu Wed Apr 13 16:48:42 2011 From: Bruce_Sherwood at ncsu.edu (Bruce Sherwood) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 08:48:42 -0600 Subject: [Idle-dev] Suggestions idle-dev In-Reply-To: References: <31383544.post@talk.nabble.com> <31385979.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: I'm associated with VIDLE and I read this list. VIDLE was created by David Scherer and Guilherme Polo, neither of whom is now an active developer. I worked with them but over the years have not contributed much to this myself. I did however make a version that runs on Python 3. I'm the main developer of VPython (an easy to use 3D programming environment, see vpython.org) and I bundle VIDLE with the Windows and Mac installers for VPython, and offer a VIDLE package for Linux. My own strong interest in IDLE springs from being co-author of an intro physics curriculum (matterandinteractions.org) within which thousands of college engineering and science students each semester write Python programs, using the VPython module, to model physical systems in 3D. Because few of these students have ever written a line of code before coming to the physics course, IDLE is vitally important as a lightweight, easy to use IDE. Bruce On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 3:56 AM, phil jones wrote: > I can't help noticing that IDLE has a history of people forking it in > order to get development work done faster (ie. Idlefork, VIDLE etc.) > > So it seems that to ramp up progress we may need our own space. (Eg.a > wiki, a mercurial (or git) code repository, a bug tracker). > > Ideally, perhaps there could be a continuity with those other projects > - are the people behind Idlefork and VIDLE reading this list? I know > that those projects had specific goals, but I wonder whether there > isn't a role for a standard Idle-fork project kept somewhere like > Github or Butbucket which everyone who's interested in further > development of Idle could work against. > > I know there'd still be an issue of getting this back into the main > Python tree, but if it took off (and IDLE development was seen to have > more direction and be moving faster) then there'd be more of an > incentive for the rest of the Python development community to support > that too. > > phil > >> >> I would like to make my suggestions more concrete: >> * easy access to idle-dev and/or description on the IDLE homepage >> * a wiki for IDLE development >> * a wiki for using IDLE >> * a bug-tracker aside from Python bug-tracker >> * a feature-tracker >> * all this accessible from the homepage >> * an invitation to contribute on the IDLE startup console or at least the >> about window and installer >> >> =Phelix= > _______________________________________________ > IDLE-dev mailing list > IDLE-dev at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/idle-dev > From tjreedy at udel.edu Wed Apr 13 22:08:17 2011 From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 16:08:17 -0400 Subject: [Idle-dev] Suggestions idle-dev In-Reply-To: <31383544.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <31383544.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: On 4/12/2011 7:07 PM, phelix wrote: > Taking part in IDLE-development seems very hard, though it really does not > have to be. On the code-side everything is fine but marketing-wise things > are not so good. Just take this mailing list. I am in my thirties and to me > it looks like from the stone age. Who wants his eMail-account spammed with a Like it or not, most Python development takes place via the tracker (effectively the 'forum') and mailing lists. Python-list is mirrored to comp.lang.python. Most of the lists are mirrored to gmane.comp.python.x at news.gmane.org, including this one. -- Terry Jan Reedy From tjreedy at udel.edu Wed Apr 13 22:12:15 2011 From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 16:12:15 -0400 Subject: [Idle-dev] Suggestions idle-dev In-Reply-To: References: <31383544.post@talk.nabble.com> <31385979.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: On 4/13/2011 5:56 AM, phil jones wrote: > So it seems that to ramp up progress we may need our own space. (Eg.a > wiki, a mercurial (or git) code repository, a bug tracker). Once I get set up with hg on a new machine, I plan to establish (or ask whoever to establish) a shared IDLE respository on hg.python.org, perhaps 'features/idle'. That will make trading and testing code much easier. -- Terry Jan Reedy From interstar at gmail.com Wed Apr 13 22:28:23 2011 From: interstar at gmail.com (phil jones) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 21:28:23 +0100 Subject: [Idle-dev] Suggestions idle-dev In-Reply-To: References: <31383544.post@talk.nabble.com> <31385979.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: Yes. Terry, that's exactly the kind of thing I was thinking. If there's a place for people interested in IDLE to exchange and synchronise their patches without waiting for things to get into the main "trunk" on Python then this can accelerate development and motivate more people to get involved. phil On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 9:12 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 4/13/2011 5:56 AM, phil jones wrote: > >> So it seems that to ramp up progress we may need our own space. (Eg.a >> wiki, a mercurial (or git) code repository, a bug tracker). > > Once I get set up with hg on a new machine, I plan to establish (or ask > whoever to establish) a shared IDLE respository on hg.python.org, perhaps > 'features/idle'. That will make trading and testing code much easier. > > -- > Terry Jan Reedy > > _______________________________________________ > IDLE-dev mailing list > IDLE-dev at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/idle-dev > From nabble at traction.de Thu Apr 14 00:09:43 2011 From: nabble at traction.de (phelix) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 15:09:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Idle-dev] Suggestions idle-dev In-Reply-To: References: <31383544.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: <31392360.post@talk.nabble.com> >Like it or not, most Python development takes place via the tracker >(effectively the 'forum') and mailing lists. Python-list is mirrored to >comp.lang.python. Most of the lists are mirrored to gmane.comp.python.x >at news.gmane.org, including this one. But where is a new user supposed to find this information? For someone coming frome outside it is hard to grasp all these structures. To get a quick start without frustration quickstart information should be available on the IDLE-homepage. =phelix= -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Suggestions-idle-dev-tp31383544p31392360.html Sent from the Python - idle-dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From nad at acm.org Thu Apr 14 00:36:14 2011 From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 15:36:14 -0700 Subject: [Idle-dev] Talking of updates to IDLE References: <31385488.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: In article , phil jones wrote: > I'd be willing to help with testing of IDLE on Ubuntu if there's a > need for that. Is there a document (say a wiki page somewhere) which > tells us what / how to test? Not that I'm aware of. Perhaps someone else knows of something? Writing some test session recipes would be a good start towards repeatable and possibly more automated testing. And thanks all for the testing offers. -- Ned Deily, nad at acm.org From nad at acm.org Thu Apr 14 01:06:29 2011 From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 16:06:29 -0700 Subject: [Idle-dev] Suggestions idle-dev References: <31383544.post@talk.nabble.com> <31392360.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: In article <31392360.post at talk.nabble.com>, phelix wrote: > >Like it or not, most Python development takes place via the tracker > >(effectively the 'forum') and mailing lists. Python-list is mirrored to > >comp.lang.python. Most of the lists are mirrored to gmane.comp.python.x > >at news.gmane.org, including this one. > But where is a new user supposed to find this information? For someone > coming frome outside it is hard to grasp all these structures. To get a > quick start without frustration quickstart information should be available > on the IDLE-homepage. What IDLE homepage? If you are referring to either http://docs.python.org/py3k/library/idle.html or http://docs.python.org/library/idle.html they are part of the Python documentation set. The Python Developer's Guide includes a section on helping with the documentation: http://docs.python.org/devguide/docquality.html -- Ned Deily, nad at acm.org From taleinat at gmail.com Fri Apr 15 01:32:13 2011 From: taleinat at gmail.com (Tal Einat) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 02:32:13 +0300 Subject: [Idle-dev] Talking of updates to IDLE In-Reply-To: References: <31385488.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: The problem is that what one should test depends highly on what changes have been made. This is true always in the absence of a test suite, I guess. My point is that I can think of quite a few "testing recipes" but their coverage would be rather low, so I'm not sure how useful they would be. Also, the ability to write tests when fixing bugs which make sure the bugs stay fixed is IMO a basic requirement. Doing this with recipes would make quickly make testing too time consuming. Perhaps tests written with something like Sikuli ? - Tal On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 1:36 AM, Ned Deily wrote: > In article , > phil jones wrote: > > I'd be willing to help with testing of IDLE on Ubuntu if there's a > > need for that. Is there a document (say a wiki page somewhere) which > > tells us what / how to test? > > Not that I'm aware of. Perhaps someone else knows of something? Writing > some test session recipes would be a good start towards repeatable and > possibly more automated testing. > > And thanks all for the testing offers. > > -- > Ned Deily, > nad at acm.org > > _______________________________________________ > IDLE-dev mailing list > IDLE-dev at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/idle-dev > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tjreedy at udel.edu Fri Apr 15 03:06:25 2011 From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 21:06:25 -0400 Subject: [Idle-dev] Talking of updates to IDLE In-Reply-To: References: <31385488.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: On 4/14/2011 7:32 PM, Tal Einat wrote: > Perhaps tests written with something like Sikuli ? I have thought of that too. I just found this page: http://sikuli.org/docx/faq/020-unit-test.html -- Terry Jan Reedy From interstar at gmail.com Tue Apr 26 13:36:33 2011 From: interstar at gmail.com (phil jones) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 12:36:33 +0100 Subject: [Idle-dev] Suggestions idle-dev In-Reply-To: References: <31383544.post@talk.nabble.com> <31385979.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: Hi Terry, did you get any further towards making an idledev hg repository? Do people on this list generally agree with the idea? phil On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 9:28 PM, phil jones wrote: > Yes. Terry, that's exactly the kind of thing I was thinking. If > there's a place for people interested in IDLE to exchange and > synchronise their patches without waiting for things to get into the > main "trunk" on Python then this can accelerate development and > motivate more people to get involved. > > phil > > On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 9:12 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: >> On 4/13/2011 5:56 AM, phil jones wrote: >> >>> So it seems that to ramp up progress we may need our own space. (Eg.a >>> wiki, a mercurial (or git) code repository, a bug tracker). >> >> Once I get set up with hg on a new machine, I plan to establish (or ask >> whoever to establish) a shared IDLE respository on hg.python.org, perhaps >> 'features/idle'. That will make trading and testing code much easier. >> >> -- >> Terry Jan Reedy >> >> _______________________________________________ >> IDLE-dev mailing list >> IDLE-dev at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/idle-dev >> > From tjreedy at udel.edu Tue Apr 26 23:24:48 2011 From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 17:24:48 -0400 Subject: [Idle-dev] Suggestions idle-dev In-Reply-To: References: <31383544.post@talk.nabble.com> <31385979.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: On 4/26/2011 7:36 AM, phil jones wrote: > did you get any further towards making an idledev hg repository? I am still not ready to work on IDLE yet. > Do people on this list generally agree with the idea? It will be available to anyone who wants to use it. -- Terry Jan Reedy