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------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8--
From elguavas@users.sourceforge.net Thu Dec 6 00:47:16 2001
From: elguavas@users.sourceforge.net (Stephen M. Gava)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 11:47:16 +1100
Subject: [Idle-dev] Re: idlefork - keybinding config / idle extensions
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID: <200112060046.fB60kVJ13409@mail004.syd.optusnet.com.au>
I quote some points from a private email to me here, with Hernan's permission:
Hernan Martinez Foffani wrote:
> agree with you that the "OS type" choice for keybindings
> is a bit "hard". I like your approach of giving a standard set
> of prepackage bindings like "MS Windows", "Emacs", or whatever
> and letting the user create and modify new and existing schemes.
>
> I agree that there's a problem there. But I've got lost on your
> propositions, besides the one regarding the "find text" extension.
>
> If you are going to provide a keybinding configuration for
> the extensions, I don't see the need to change the status of
> the standard ones. Or are you planning to do it in different
> releases?
I think my original message to idle-dev on this probably suffered from the
problem of these being issues that I've been turning over a lot in my mind,
and that in being too close to the matter, what I worte came out in
somewhat of an ill-explained manner.
Really the points are these:
1. Moving from 'platform' oriented keybindings to user oriented ones. I must
admit that this one is slightly more than just a 'proposal', since I've
already implemented things this way... 8^) , so, more properly consder this
a 'news item'.
2. It's 'one in all in'. It really isn't possible to satisfactorily
implement user configurable key bindings for idle 'core', while
leaving extension's key bindings hard-coded in their modules. This problem
with extensions needs to be addressed in some way. Now. (see point 4 also)
3. SearchBindings.py is a special case since I'm firmly convinced that the
functions it implements are core to idle, not peripheral or optional, and so
I think it's keybindings sould be part of the idle core keybindings and
therefore handled by the idle core keybinding configuration mechanism, not by
whatever additional mechanism is put in place to handle keybindings for
extensions.
4. The practicalities of handling user configuration of extension keybindings
are these:
a) extension keybindings will need to be defined in one of idle's new
configuration files (probably most properly in the relevant sections of
config-extensions.def), _not_ inside the extension source modules.
b) whatever mechanism is implemented for allowing user configuration of
extension keybindings (at the moment I have several different possible
approaches in mind) it must allow this configuration to participate in the
general abilty to handle and resolve potential clashes between keybindings
that will be a part of the core keybinding config handling. (ie. obviously
you can't use the same keybindings more than once, in any given keybinding
set, for core keybindings, _or_ extensions).
> As an IDLE user, for me is more useful to have
> a way to specify keybindings in an non-OS manner but rather
> in a scheme and user configurable way (that include standard
> extensions and the ones written by me!), than to do it GUI.
For sure the 'sensible implementation' is much more important than the gui
(and of course can and should exist happily without it ), but the goal of
the new config implementation is to also have easy gui configuration, to make
idle a more comfortable environment for one and all, including those who
would never edit config files by hand.
Regards,
Stephen.
--
Stephen M. Gava
IDLEfork ( http://idlefork.sourceforge.net ) " just like IDLE, only crunchy "
From hernan@orgmf.com.ar Thu Dec 6 10:53:43 2001
From: hernan@orgmf.com.ar (Hernan Martinez Foffani)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 11:53:43 +0100
Subject: [Idle-dev] RE: idlefork - keybinding config / idle extensions
In-Reply-To: <200112060046.fB60kVJ13409@mail004.syd.optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID:
> De: Stephen M. Gava [mailto:elguavas@users.sourceforge.net]
> Really the points are these:
>
> 1. Moving from 'platform' oriented keybindings to user oriented
> ones. I must
> admit that this one is slightly more than just a 'proposal', since I've
> already implemented things this way... 8^) , so, more properly
> consder this a 'news item'.
Glad to hear it! Great!
> 2. It's 'one in all in'. It really isn't possible to satisfactorily
> implement user configurable key bindings for idle 'core', while
> leaving extension's key bindings hard-coded in their modules.
> This problem
> with extensions needs to be addressed in some way. Now. (see point 4 also)
Ah, ok! I just thought that you could use the hard-coded key bindings
as a) to find at runtime all the events the extension needs to be bound
to keys, b) as a 'fallthru default' and c) for a smooth transition of
older extension.
But these are all implementation issues for which, as I read in the 4.b
paragraph, you are studying several approaches.
> 3. SearchBindings.py is a special case since I'm firmly convinced
> that the functions it implements are core to idle, not peripheral or
> optional, and so I think it's keybindings sould be part of the idle
> core keybindings and therefore handled by the idle core keybinding
> configuration mechanism, not by whatever additional mechanism is
> put in place to handle keybindings for extensions.
Ok. So this is a refactoring thing. None of my business here :-)
But, please, do not end making all the standard extension a big ball.
At least leave one (CallTips, or any other) out so we can use it
as an extension sample. I know you will. Or should I say you won't?
Well, you know what I mean... :-P
> 4. The practicalities of handling user configuration of extension
> keybindings are these:
> a) extension keybindings will need to be defined in one of idle's new
> configuration files (probably most properly in the relevant sections of
> config-extensions.def), _not_ inside the extension source modules.
> b) whatever mechanism is implemented for allowing user configuration of
> extension keybindings (at the moment I have several different possible
> approaches in mind) it must allow this configuration to participate in
> the general abilty to handle and resolve potential clashes between
> keybindings that will be a part of the core keybinding config handling.
> (ie. obviously you can't use the same keybindings more than once, in
> any given keybinding set, for core keybindings, _or_ extensions).
You realized that there were several things to consider that I did't
think of. Fine for me!
> > As an IDLE user, for me is more useful to have
> > a way to specify keybindings in an non-OS manner but rather
> > in a scheme and user configurable way (that include standard
> > extensions and the ones written by me!), than to do it GUI.
>
> For sure the 'sensible implementation' is much more important
> than the gui (and of course can and should exist happily without
> it ), but the goal of the new config implementation is to also have
> easy gui configuration, to make idle a more comfortable environment
> for one and all, including those who would never edit config files
> by hand.
Hey! If you insist that I can take the lemon-pie with the Combo
all for free, you'll double my smile ! :-)
Well, sorry that you've got to clarify all this. I'll help you
with the future testings.
Thanks and regards,
-Hernan.
From elguavas@users.sourceforge.net Thu Dec 6 11:34:43 2001
From: elguavas@users.sourceforge.net (Stephen M. Gava)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 22:34:43 +1100
Subject: [Idle-dev] Re: idlefork - keybinding config / idle extensions
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID: <200112061133.fB6BXwO15930@mail016.syd.optusnet.com.au>
> Well, sorry that you've got to clarify all this.
Not at all. It's good that I got the excuse to clarify since I've gotten
several emails with useful suggestions from doing so.
> I'll help you
> with the future testings.
Great.
Stephen.
--
Stephen M. Gava
IDLEfork ( http://idlefork.sourceforge.net ) " just like IDLE, only crunchy "
From Keila - Curitiba"
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From pobrien@orbtech.com Tue Dec 11 01:41:20 2001
From: pobrien@orbtech.com (Patrick K. O'Brien)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 19:41:20 -0600
Subject: [Idle-dev] FW: [wxPython] Changin font size in Idle
Message-ID:
Richard,
I've forwarded your question to the IDLE list.
---
Patrick K. O'Brien
Orbtech.com - Your Source For Python Development Services
Phone: 314-963-3206
-----Original Message-----
From: wxpython-users-admin@lists.wxwindows.org
[mailto:wxpython-users-admin@lists.wxwindows.org]On Behalf Of richard
terry
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 7:32 PM
To: wxpython-users@lists.wxwindows.org
Subject: [wxPython] Changin font size in Idle
Newbie question
've been trying to make the font size bigger in Idle for my aging eyes, and
noted the documentation talks about changing font size in windows by not in
linux
The only line I found is like this:
text['font'] = edconf.get('font-name'), edconf.get('font-size')
How can I make the font's bigger.
Thanks in anticipation.
_______________________________________________
wxpython-users mailing list
wxpython-users@lists.wxwindows.org
http://lists.wxwindows.org/mailman/listinfo/wxpython-users
From aurumxxl@polbox.com Wed Dec 12 17:12:25 2001
From: aurumxxl@polbox.com (Irmingard Anna Kotelev)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:12:25
Subject: [Idle-dev] New York Remembrance
Message-ID: <09cef0613160cc1WEB5276@mailto.t-online-com.de>
Dear friends,
the madness incarnate of September 11th, 2001 is one which will never
be
forgotten. How could it be?
This shook the entire world, and my heart was broken along with all of
yours.
I have created a slide show in respectful tribute to all who passed, as
well as the heroics of the people. I know that America...the world... will
not allow this attack to ruffle it's feathers, and I stand and applaude
for
the strength and resolve of it's people.
God bless America...God bless the world.
Do sign my 'Response to this Tribute' if compelled and please pass this
on to at least one friend.
http://www.aurumxxl.de/ny/ny.htm
Irmingard Anna Kotelev
Photographer
21th of September 2001
If you have received this email by error, please excuse it, and me for
sending it. Thank you. IAK
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From: axis@mk178.dyndns.info (axis@mk178.dyndns.info)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 20:10:44 +0900
Subject: [Idle-dev] =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCIXolKCVDJTAlRiUjITwlcyF6GyhC?=
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From Andy Sy"
Message-ID: <00ac01c184f5$0a632c10$1764a8c0@bartgonefn0vjy>
Python together with IDLE (or a different
interpreted environment perhaps?) should make
for one of the most excellent environment for
interactive experimentation with graphics APIs
like PyGame and OpenGL. The scripting possibilities
are potentially unlimited.
However, there seem to quite a few, small,
but niggling, issues with interaction with a
graphics window at least under Windoze. Because
PythonWin exhibits very similar (but somewhat worse
iirc) problems, I wonder if the problem is that
Python's threading model itself makes it unsuitable
for this kind of environment (which would be tragic).
I've encountered 2 bugs under IDLE which I'll
mention here:
After doing
>>> import pygame
You can do
>>> pygame.init()
>>> surf=pygame.display.set_mode((200,200))
>>> pygame.display.update()
>>> pygame.quit()
as often as you please. But remove the assignment to
surf and you get an application error on the second
set_mode()! (BUG #1)
Also after each pygame.quit(), IDLE freezes and you
have to right-click on the IDLE entry in the start
menu bar to get it to wake up. (BUG #2)
Pete Shinners has discussed BUG#2 before,
here is the excerpt:
=============================================
> Hmm this is strange, in Win2K SP 1,
> when I do a pygame.quit(), IDLE
> freezes or does not repaint the
> screen. Not until I right click
> (left-click doesn't work) on the
> taskbar button corresponding to the
> IDLE window. Pygame.Quit()'s fault
> or IDLE's fault?
yeah, i just tested this too and got the same results.
i think technically this would be an IDLE problem, but
it is very likely that pygame/SDL is not being very
cooperative also.
i think most of the problem comes from the fact that
tkinter and pygame are both written in a way that they
expect they will be the only part of the program dealing
with windows in their process.
i'm pretty sure this can't really be fixed in the
tkinter/pygame libraries, but would have to be dealt with
in the underlying libraries, tcltk/sdl.
actually. the IDLE editor seems to do a much better job
than pythonwin which seems to always crash and die when
initializing pygame. my guess here is that IDLE is doing
a better job of keeping the interactive interpreter in a
separate thread.
anyways. no real solution for you here, but i don't believe
there are any ongoing offorts to get this fixed up. i'd start
with the IDLE team though, since their app does return, they
might be able to detect the 'freeze' and fix it easily?
From Andy Sy"
Another interesting situation, can anyone explain it?
>>> import pygame; from pygame.locals import *; from pygame import draw;
from OpenGL.GL import *
>>> pygame.init();pygame.display.set_mode((640,480),OPENGL|DOUBLEBUF)
>>> glMatrixMode(GL_PROJECTION);glLoadIdentity();glOrtho(0,640,0,480,-1,1)
>>> glMatrixMode(GL_MODELVIEW); glLoadIdentity(); glColor3f ( 255.0, 0.0,
0.0 )
>>> glBegin (GL_TRIANGLES);glVertex2i (200, 100);glVertex2i (320,
300);glVertex2i (440, 100);glEnd()
Now for the weird thing:
>>> while(1): pygame.display.flip(); print "1",
works, however
>>> while(1): pygame.display.flip();
locks up IDLE, and you can't do a Ctrl-C or Ctrl-Break.
Nor does it seem to be a question of delay. A
time.sleep() or time.clock() or for delay inserted
after flip() still introduces the lockup. Only
the print works.
I hope it hasn't escaped your notice how
Python/PyGame/PyOpenGL/IDLE virtually turns OpenGL from
an API into a scripting 3D Graphics language! If all
the kinks were ironed out, this would be awesome!!!
From elguavas@users.sourceforge.net Sat Dec 15 00:40:47 2001
From: elguavas@users.sourceforge.net (Stephen M. Gava)
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 11:40:47 +1100
Subject: [Idle-dev] Whose fault? IDLE, PyGame, or TKinter?
In-Reply-To: <00ac01c184f5$0a632c10$1764a8c0@bartgonefn0vjy>
References: <00ac01c184f5$0a632c10$1764a8c0@bartgonefn0vjy>
Message-ID: <200112150039.fBF0dpJ17437@mail004.syd.optusnet.com.au>
What version of idle are you using?
If it is one of the versions that come as part of the python distribution,
then that version of idle makes no attempt to run python processes that are
being 'executed' from the envoronment in a separate thread. The vpython
heritage versions of idle (which include idlefork up to release 0.81) do
attempt to execute processes in a separate thread, however there are
currently some problems with that implementation.
Idlefork itself is currently undegoing a massive rewrite of its configuration
handling mechanism which I hope will be completed by some time early next
year. After that (if no-one else hops in to start this in the meantime) I
will move on to the separate process execution code, with a view to cleaning
things up there and getting the best working implementation in place.
Regards,
Stephen.
--
Stephen M. Gava
IDLEfork ( http://idlefork.sourceforge.net ) " just like IDLE, only crunchy "
From elguavas@users.sourceforge.net Sun Dec 16 22:46:18 2001
From: elguavas@users.sourceforge.net (Stephen M. Gava)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:46:18 +1100
Subject: [Idle-dev] test, please ignore
Message-ID: <200112162245.fBGMjJu25649@mail012.syd.optusnet.com.au>
I've sent two messages to the list that don't seem to have appeared, so this
is just a test to see if this gets through. Please ignore.
--
Stephen M. Gava
IDLEfork ( http://idlefork.sourceforge.net ) " just like IDLE, only crunchy "
From elguavas@users.sourceforge.net Sun Dec 16 22:51:52 2001
From: elguavas@users.sourceforge.net (Stephen M. Gava)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:51:52 +1100
Subject: [Idle-dev] Whose fault? IDLE, PyGame, or TKinter?
Message-ID: <200112162250.fBGMoru31606@mail012.syd.optusnet.com.au>
Since my test worked, lets try this again. I sent this followup message soon
after my original post on this topic, but it hasn't appeared on idle-dev yet
so I'm trying again. Andy, if the followup got through to you the first or
second time, apologies for the repeat.
Stephen M. Gava wrote:
> attempt to execute processes in a separate thread, however there are
Actually I said 'execute processes in a separate thread' twice in my original
reply when I meant to say 'execute code in a separate process', still the
upshot is the same for the problems you are encountering I think (when
executing from idle), which is that in regular python idle 'run' (or
executed) code is executed in the same process as the IDE itself (which
embodies idle's tkinter event loop), so you can get all sorts of problems
along the lines you've mentionned when attempting to execute code that
implements other graphical interface event loops in particular. This is the
problem that the 'separate process execution' code in idlefork is attempting
to address.
Stephen.
--
Stephen M. Gava
IDLEfork ( http://idlefork.sourceforge.net ) " just like IDLE, only crunchy "
From elguavas@users.sourceforge.net Sun Dec 16 23:02:45 2001
From: elguavas@users.sourceforge.net (Stephen M. Gava)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:02:45 +1100
Subject: [Idle-dev] Whose fault? IDLE, PyGame, or TKinter?
Message-ID: <200112162301.fBGN1ku11354@mail012.syd.optusnet.com.au>
Since my test worked, lets try this again. I sent this followup message soon
after my original post on this topic, but it hasn't appeared on idle-dev yet
so I'm trying again.
Stephen M. Gava wrote:
> attempt to execute processes in a separate thread, however there are
Actually I said 'execute processes in a separate thread' twice in my original
reply when I meant to say 'execute code in a separate process', still the
upshot is the same for the problems you are encountering I think (when
executing from idle), which is that in regular python idle 'run' (or
executed) code is executed in the same process as the IDE itself (which
embodies idle's tkinter event loop), so you can get all sorts of problems
along the lines you've mentionned when attempting to execute code that
implements other graphical interface event loops in particular. This is the
problem that the 'separate process execution' code in idlefork is attempting
to address.
Stephen.
--
Stephen M. Gava
IDLEfork ( http://idlefork.sourceforge.net ) " just like IDLE, only crunchy "
From vg@lm322.ath.cx Mon Dec 17 08:10:31 2001
From: vg@lm322.ath.cx (vg@lm322.ath.cx)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:10:31 +0900
Subject: [Idle-dev] =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCIVgbKEogGyRCJGokLCEmJDghPBsoSiAbJEIhWRsoQg==?=
Message-ID: <20011217081102638.00000.112.vg@e-001.127.0.0.1>
$B!X(B $B$j$,!&$8!<(B $B!Y(B
http://www.liga-z.com
$B!J!&!&!)!K(B
From christina.courtemarche@deitel.net Mon Dec 17 15:00:41 2001
From: christina.courtemarche@deitel.net (Christina Courtemarche)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:00:41 -0500
Subject: [Idle-dev] Using IDLE's debugger on Windows
Message-ID:
I can't seem to set breakpoints. I'm using IDLE version .8 on Windows 2000.
I read documentation on IDLE version .5 that states that this functionality
was not implemented for Windows.
Is this still the case?
From cyakycfn@mail.plutz.jp Fri Dec 21 03:32:29 2001
From: cyakycfn@mail.plutz.jp (=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCJDRPIk1tISobKEI=?=)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 12:32:29 +0900
Subject: [Idle-dev] =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCJDRPIk1tISobKEI=?=
Message-ID: <1221101123229.1353@azkah>
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