From pixolator@angelfire.com  Tue May  2 16:27:00 2000
From: pixolator@angelfire.com (bloob boober boob)
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 08:27:00 -0700
Subject: [Idle-dev] (No Subject)
Message-ID: <PBIOGMFDONLMDAAA@angelfire.com>

I downloaded the idle, I'm running it on linnux, I'm having problems getting it to run correctly because I am new to the ash/bash/csh shells and the unix environment for that matter, however I did chaange the file permissions on PyShell.py and got the shell to run [ to an executable ] so do I have to change the other files to executables [ all of them or just some? ]
thanx!!
Bill
Pixolator@angelfire.com


Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com


From alwagner@tcac.net  Thu May  4 02:58:51 2000
From: alwagner@tcac.net (Albert Wagner)
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 20:58:51 -0500
Subject: [Idle-dev] right button popup menu
Message-ID: <3910D95B.4C65E0E@tcac.net>

I have tried to modify EditorWindow.py to give me cut/copy/paste items
in the right button popup.  But something else, is preempting the menu
for use by the debugger.  Can someone direct me to the code where I can
disable the override of my menu?  The debugger doesn't work for me
anyway.  (Are there some caveats concerning the debugger, e.g. using Tk,
Pmw, etc.?)  The code I have modified is in EditorWindoy.py, between
right_menu_event and make_rmenu:     

    rmenu_specs = [
        # ("Label", "<<virtual-event>>"), ...
        ('Cu_t', '<<Cut>>'),
        ('_Copy', '<<Copy>>'),
        ('_Paste', '<<Paste>>')   
        ]

-- 
Small is Beautiful


From guido@python.org  Thu May  4 14:16:35 2000
From: guido@python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 09:16:35 -0400
Subject: [Idle-dev] right button popup menu
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 03 May 2000 20:58:51 CDT."
 <3910D95B.4C65E0E@tcac.net>
References: <3910D95B.4C65E0E@tcac.net>
Message-ID: <200005041316.JAA08349@eric.cnri.reston.va.us>

> I have tried to modify EditorWindow.py to give me cut/copy/paste items
> in the right button popup.  But something else, is preempting the menu
> for use by the debugger.  Can someone direct me to the code where I can
> disable the override of my menu?  The debugger doesn't work for me
> anyway.  (Are there some caveats concerning the debugger, e.g. using Tk,
> Pmw, etc.?)  The code I have modified is in EditorWindoy.py, between
> right_menu_event and make_rmenu:     
> 
>     rmenu_specs = [
>         # ("Label", "<<virtual-event>>"), ...
>         ('Cu_t', '<<Cut>>'),
>         ('_Copy', '<<Copy>>'),
>         ('_Paste', '<<Paste>>')   
>         ]

You're doing the right thing, but in the wrong class.  The windows you
see are inherited from the EditorWindow class: their class is
PyShellEditorWindow defined in PyShell.py.  This class overrides
rmenu_specs, so you should try to modify that one!

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From hvrosen@hotmail.com  Sat May  6 11:39:58 2000
From: hvrosen@hotmail.com (Henning von Rosen)
Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 03:39:58 PDT
Subject: [Idle-dev] non-intuitive file trouble, paths, edit-menu
Message-ID: <20000506103958.25922.qmail@hotmail.com>

non-intuitive file trouble...

I am relatively new to Python and Idle, so i might well have missed some 
point...

Trouble: I write a simple program that reads from a file in the same 
directory as the source file. When I execute the program (win98) by ctrl-f5 
the program does not find the file.

1) Wouldn't it be natural if the the own directoy, was included as the first 
item in the search path (I suppose this is an issue of paths).

2) I think, generally, that the issue of paths is the most non-intuitive 
part of a beginners life, learning f ex Python. A worse example: I remember 
installing jPython on Linux, I would have forgotten how to fix all the 
different paths, if I hadn't written a doc with screendumps and all:-)
   I think paths are much less close to normal everyday human logic and 
thougth, than classes and lists and strings.
   Maybe this is an issue for the OS, but I'd love an intuitive Python on 
top af any OS, giving me full power to interact with my files, data and 
"capacities".
   Conclusiuon: I think the human thougth, f ex as represented by normal 
human language structures, shoud be the design norm of computer systems. 
Python is a wonderful step in this nice direction.

3) Qestion: sometimes I want to try out a program or collection of classes 
and functions by importing it into the interactive mode, can I easily 
reimport after editing the program/module.

4) I really like the close interaction - "talk to python" of the interactive 
mode, and would really like some "seamless" integration of interactiv mode 
and scripting/prototyping.

4b) My nine-year old daughter said "this is fun", when we were playing with 
strings and lists in interactive mode.

---

additional IDLE comment: all too many items in the "edit"-menu.
---

/Henning von Rosen

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com



From guido@python.org  Mon May  8 13:54:41 2000
From: guido@python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 08:54:41 -0400
Subject: [Idle-dev] non-intuitive file trouble, paths, edit-menu
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 06 May 2000 03:39:58 PDT."
 <20000506103958.25922.qmail@hotmail.com>
References: <20000506103958.25922.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <200005081254.IAA16196@eric.cnri.reston.va.us>

> non-intuitive file trouble...
> 
> I am relatively new to Python and Idle, so i might well have missed some 
> point...

Thanks for your feedback!  Which IDLE version did you use?  IDLE 0.6
(which comes with Python 1.6a2) is the latest and may solve some of
your problems.

> Trouble: I write a simple program that reads from a file in the same 
> directory as the source file. When I execute the program (win98) by ctrl-f5 
> the program does not find the file.
> 
> 1) Wouldn't it be natural if the the own directoy, was included as the first 
> item in the search path (I suppose this is an issue of paths).

Without seeing your program it's unclear what the problem was.  Note
that the search path is only used for importing modules, not for
opening files.  Maybe you want the current directory to be the
directory containing the program?  There are various ways around this,
e.g. os.chdir(), or look into sys.argv[0] or __file__.

> 2) I think, generally, that the issue of paths is the most non-intuitive 
> part of a beginners life, learning f ex Python. A worse example: I remember 
> installing jPython on Linux, I would have forgotten how to fix all the 
> different paths, if I hadn't written a doc with screendumps and all:-)

Agreed.

>    I think paths are much less close to normal everyday human logic and 
> thougth, than classes and lists and strings.

Hm, maybe you're right.  It's certainly a recurring theme in the
lamentations of newbies trying to use Python that the various paths
are never right, and it requires wizard knowledge to fix them.

>    Maybe this is an issue for the OS, but I'd love an intuitive Python on 
> top af any OS, giving me full power to interact with my files, data and 
> "capacities".
>    Conclusiuon: I think the human thougth, f ex as represented by normal 
> human language structures, shoud be the design norm of computer systems. 
> Python is a wonderful step in this nice direction.
> 
> 3) Qestion: sometimes I want to try out a program or collection of classes 
> and functions by importing it into the interactive mode, can I easily 
> reimport after editing the program/module.

For now, reload() is your friend.  We're going to change the way IDLE
runs programs to use a separate process -- this should make a lot of
things easier.  But we're not done makinh this change yet.

> 4) I really like the close interaction - "talk to python" of the interactive 
> mode, and would really like some "seamless" integration of interactiv mode 
> and scripting/prototyping.

I like the TeachScheme/DrScheme model: you see two panels; the top
panel contains a module/program and the bottom panel contains the
interaction.  When you execute the code in the top panel, the bottom
panel gets reinitialized; after that you can execute interactive
commands in the bottom panel, playing with the results of the
execution of the top panel code.

> 4b) My nine-year old daughter said "this is fun", when we were playing with 
> strings and lists in interactive mode.

Cool!

> additional IDLE comment: all too many items in the "edit"-menu.

I'm well aware of that :-(

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From Albert.Brandl@edvg.co.at  Mon May  8 14:36:29 2000
From: Albert.Brandl@edvg.co.at (Albert Brandl)
Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 15:36:29 +0200
Subject: Antwort: Re: [Idle-dev] non-intuitive file trouble, paths, edit -menu
Message-ID: <C12568D9.004A7A7B.00@viecos2.srv.dsh.at>


Hi!

>Thanks for your feedback!  Which IDLE version did you use?  IDLE 0.6
>(which comes with Python 1.6a2) is the latest and may solve some of
>your problems.

BTW: Would it be possible to add a link to IDLE 0.6 to the News page at
www.python.org? This page still announces IDLE 0.5 as newest version.

     Regards,

          Albert




From guido@python.org  Mon May  8 15:38:10 2000
From: guido@python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 10:38:10 -0400
Subject: Antwort: Re: [Idle-dev] non-intuitive file trouble, paths, edit -menu
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 08 May 2000 15:36:29 +0200."
 <C12568D9.004A7A7B.00@viecos2.srv.dsh.at>
References: <C12568D9.004A7A7B.00@viecos2.srv.dsh.at>
Message-ID: <200005081438.KAA20599@eric.cnri.reston.va.us>

> BTW: Would it be possible to add a link to IDLE 0.6 to the News page at
> www.python.org? This page still announces IDLE 0.5 as newest version.

The news page is is total disarray, and I don't have the time to fix
its problem right now (I will get to this over the summer though).  I
can add a pointer to Python 1.6 in the IDLE page though.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From robin@jessikat.demon.co.uk  Tue May  9 17:09:11 2000
From: robin@jessikat.demon.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 17:09:11 +0100
Subject: [Idle-dev] py2pdf printing patch for idle
In-Reply-To: <200005091506.LAA24082@eric.cnri.reston.va.us>
References: <vMARCIAUy+F5EwRh@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
 <200005091506.LAA24082@eric.cnri.reston.va.us>
Message-ID: <3BPHxjAngDG5Ewag@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

BLURB
A patch to the latest CVS idle has been made that allows idle to print using Dinu Gherman's
py2pdf which in turn needs reportlab and acrobat reader. The idle file.print... menu entry
allows a simple configuration
dialog to send the current window to a script ../py2pdf/idle_print.py;
this script in turn copies the window to acrobat reader using py2pdf.

The latest version of py2pdf can be found at
        http://www.egroups.com/files/reportlab-users/dinu/

INSTALLATION
0) get acrobat reader from www.adobe.com

1) get the patch ftp://ftp.reportlab.com/idle.pat

2) Apply the patch
   cd tools/idle
   patch -p1 </tmp/idle.pat
   python idle.py # to check it works
3) get the py2pdf software (includes reportlab)
   ftp://ftp.reportlab.com/py2pdf.tgz ftp://ftp.reportlab.com/py2pdf.zip

4) extract in the tools directory
   cd tools
   tar xzf /tmp/py2pdf.tgz or unzip -a \tmp\py2pdf.zip

5) try it out!

CONFIGURATION
The file.print... menu dialog can be configured using a config.txt (or config-unix.txt) section
(ie it allows idle configging).

[Print]
size=A4  (or 'letter','legal','tabloid','ledger','executive', 'A3', 'A4', 'A5')
viewonly=0
landscape=0
colorize=0
fontsize=8
font=Courier
tabwidth=editorwindow default

Send suggestions/comments/bugs/fixes to robin@reportlab.com
-- 
Robin Becker


From glyph@twistedmatrix.com  Sun May 14 02:49:07 2000
From: glyph@twistedmatrix.com (Glyph Lefkowitz)
Date: 13 May 2000 20:49:07 -0500
Subject: [Idle-dev] cvs and whatnot
Message-ID: <javh0h9a0c.fsf@helix.twistedmatrix.com>

I am using IDLE more these days (emacs is nice, but comint sucks) and
as things on the TODO list become important to me, I'm probably going
to be implementing them.  The first thing I did was to get "open
module" and "run module" to work with package syntax, since my project
uses pacakges heavily.

I'd really like to be making these patches against a CVS tree or
something, so I can help out with the general development effort (and
keep the patches discrete ... right now I've just got a
"modified-stuff-I-use" tree and if I keep hacking it it's going to
take some effort to get the generally useful stuff back out)

Is there anoncvs somewhere?  If not, how should I go about doing this?
Currently I'm using Idle-0.6.

-- 
                  __________________________________________
                 |    ______      __   __  _____  _     _   |
                 |   |  ____ |      \_/   |_____] |_____|   |
                 |   |_____| |_____  |    |       |     |   |
                 |   @ t w i s t e d m a t r i x  . c o m   |
                 |   http://www.twistedmatrix.com/~glyph/   |
                 `__________________________________________'


From jjp@connix.com  Mon May 22 20:49:25 2000
From: jjp@connix.com (John Posner)
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 15:49:25 -0400
Subject: [Idle-dev] Problems building Python for IDLE support on Solaris 5.6
Message-ID: <000f01bfc426$dbf178e0$6e64fea9@jake>

Hi --

Python 1.5.2 words fine on our Solaris host:

  % uname -a
  SunOS myhost 5.6 Generic_105181-17 sun4u sparc SUNW,Ultra-4

  % python
  Python 1.5.2 (#1, Mar 23 2000, 11:45:06)  [GCC 2.95.2 19991024 (release)]
on sunos5
  Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam


But to support IDLE, we need to rebuild Python. We're having problems with
the revision of an X Window System library:

* Python wants to load the shared library libX11.so.6.1
* Our machine has a different version of the library: libX11.so.6.0

The sys admin would rather not rev up the X Window System. Given this, can
anyone provide advice on the best course of action? Thanks!

--
John Posner, Editor           jjp@oreilly.com
O'Reilly & Associates         860-663-3147





--
John Posner, Editor           jjp@oreilly.com
O'Reilly & Associates         860-663-3147



From pdfernhout@kurtz-fernhout.com  Wed May 24 05:36:53 2000
From: pdfernhout@kurtz-fernhout.com (Paul Fernhout)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 00:36:53 -0400
Subject: [Idle-dev] Version control through integrating Idle and the Pointrel Data
 Repository System
Message-ID: <392B5C65.C81D1314@kurtz-fernhout.com>

As Glyph Lefkowitz pointed out in this list on Sat, 1 April, it would be
nice if Idle had an built-in version control system for files (not
relying on CVS).

I just released the Pointrel Data Repository System for Python (version
0.01) available at:
    http://www.kurtz-fernhout.com/pointrel/

The core of the system is basically a 20K Python module
"PointrelRepository20000513.py" that provides a simple database-like
system with some unusual properties. It is released under an X11/MIT
type license so it should be Python license compatible. The
wxPython-based example file viewer included in that distribution
supports archiving and running of chosen versions of a Python file, but
it is *very* crude. Of course, editing Python files with Idle would be
much slicker than doing it in a text pane as done in that example.

I looked briefly at the Idle source code a while back with an eye to
adding version control. I think it might be possible with a days effort
or so for someone to integrate the Idle and the Pointrel system to
handle multiple versions of files. I believe most of the changes would
have to be made to "IOBinding.py".

Specifically, every time one saves a file to disk in Idle, a copy would
go into the repository under that files complete path name. Ideally, one
could also add a version name (or by default just increment a version
number and include the date and time). 

When a file was opened from a special menu item in Idle, a dialog could
pop up with alternate versions of that file that were listed in the
repository under the same name. 

Deleted or moved files would be hard to recover with this simple
interface -- you'd have to make an empty file in the right place and
open it. One would need a repository file list browser dialog to find
them otherwise; even in that case there are deeper issues to address. 

Relavant Pointrel API calls would include:
Repository.triadForName(name) #returns a unique triad associated with a
name string
Repository.addTriadABC(a, b, c) #returns a triad with the specified A,
B, C slots
Repository.addTriadABCString(a, b, c, string) #same as above, but also
with an associated string
Repository.addTriadString(string) #same as above, but with just a string
and A, B, C of 0
Repository.searchABForAllCs(a, b) #returns list of Cs in triads which
have the A and B
Repository.searchABForAllCLinks(a, b) #returns list of triads which have
the A and B
Repository.searchABForLatestCLink(a, b) #returns the last added C triad
with A and B
Repository.triadString(triadIndex) #returns string associated with this
triad
Repository.triadForConcept(name) #returns unique triad representing
concept with that name

Here is a code fragment that uses these calls to store and retrieve
versions of a file.

#So adding "C:/MyDev/foo.py" could involve something like:
import PointrelRepository20000513
myRepository = PointrelRepository20000513.Repository()
myRepository.openFiles()
hasContentsConcept = myRepository.triadForConcept("has contents")
fileNameNode = myRepository.triadForName("C:/MyDev/foo.py")
fileContentsNode = myRepository.addTriadString("fileContentsOfFoo")
myRepository.addTriadABC(fileNameNode, hasContentsConcept,
fileContentsNode)
hasVersionNameConcept = myRepository.triadForConcept("has version name")
myRepository.addTriadABCString(fileContentsNode, hasVersionNameConcept,
0, "Version 0.0.1")

#Retrieving all versions of a file could involve something like:
hasContentsConcept = myRepository.triadForConcept("has contents")
fileNameNode = myRepository.triadForName("C:/MyDev/foo.py")
fileContentsNodes = myRepository.searchABForAllCs(fileNameNode,
hasContentsConcept)
for node in fileContentsNodes:
    contentsString = myRepository.triadString(node)
    print "Contents: ", contentsString
    versionInfoLinkNode = myRepository.searchABForLatestCLink(node,
hasVersionNameConcept)
    versionString = myRepository.triadString(versionInfoLinkNode)
    print "Version", versionString

If you ran this code three times and with a newly made repository (run
"PointrelRepository20000513.py" first), you should get this output on
the third run:
Contents:  fileContentsOfFoo
Version Version 0.0.1
Contents:  fileContentsOfFoo
Version Version 0.0.1
Contents:  fileContentsOfFoo
Version Version 0.0.1

Note that for performance one might eventually want to cache the
locations of the concept nodes somewhere in an Idle editor object. To
get fancy, one might then add difference reporting, and another later
improvement could be to group or tag versions of a files into a project
versions.

Would anyone on this list be interested in giving this Idle/Pointrel
System integration a try? I don't have the time to do the Idle
integration anytime soon myself, but I'd be happy to provide someone
interested in trying it with "technical support" on using the Pointrel
system (under the assumption the Idle integration results would be under
a Python or compatible license). 

The code I provided here should be enough to get started and over the
worst initial hurdles. It would help me out to get some intial feedback
on the usability of what I have just released, and it might just make a
nifty add-on for Idle.

-Paul Fernhout
Kurtz-Fernhout Software 
=========================================================
Developers of custom software and educational simulations
Creators of the Garden with Insight(TM) garden simulator
http://www.kurtz-fernhout.com


From entropiamax@jazzfree.com  Tue May 30 10:36:18 2000
From: entropiamax@jazzfree.com (entropia)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 11:36:18 +0200
Subject: [Idle-dev] Hello
Message-ID: <39338B92.92DCD3E0@jazzfree.com>

--------------65C1237D97FCE66F2D6FA3FA
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I'm a spanish programer. I'm relatively new in python, but not
inexperienced, I have done some programs. I'm very interested in this
language and I want to help in developing the idle. Sorry for my
english, it's easiest to read than to write.
                                                           Andres Tuells

--------------65C1237D97FCE66F2D6FA3FA
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML>
I'm a spanish programer. I'm relatively new in python, but not inexperienced,
I have done some programs. I'm very interested in this language and I want
to help in developing the idle. Sorry for my english, it's easiest to read
than to write.
<DIV ALIGN=right>Andres Tuells</DIV>
</HTML>

--------------65C1237D97FCE66F2D6FA3FA--




From shapr@uab.edu  Tue May 30 16:01:35 2000
From: shapr@uab.edu (Shae Erisson)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 18:01:35 +0300
Subject: [Idle-dev] Hello
References: <39338B92.92DCD3E0@jazzfree.com>
Message-ID: <3933D7CF.8A72D4CF@uab.edu>

entropia wrote:
> 
> I'm a spanish programer. I'm relatively new in python, but not
> inexperienced, I have done some programs. I'm very interested in this
> language and I want to help in developing the idle. Sorry for my
> english, it's easiest to read than to write.
>                                                          Andres Tuells

I am also interested in developing IDLE. I'm writing a Python
Refactoring Browser (in Python of course) that I plan on integrating
into IDLE when it's finished. I think it won't be finished for several
months though.
-- 
sHae mAtijs eRisson (sHae@wEbwitchEs.coM) gEnius fOr hIre
   bRing mE fIve sQuirrels aNd nO oNe wIll gEt hUrt