From boris at codesynthesis.com  Wed Jun 11 16:47:11 2008
From: boris at codesynthesis.com (Boris Kolpackov)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 14:47:11 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Expat-discuss] Namespace attributes w/ namespace processing
	enabled
References: <a74683f90804151324tf363ae1rebfe01e6ce34480e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <g2oohe$80j$2@ger.gmane.org>

Hi Bob,

"Bob Lee" <crazybob at crazybob.org> writes:

> Is there any way to tell Expat to still include namespace attributes when
> namespace processing is enabled?

I don't think there is an option to do this though you probably
can fake it by providing the namespace declaration handlers (see 
XML_SetNamespaceDeclHandler) and reconstructing the namespace
declaration attributes from there.

Boris

-- 
Boris Kolpackov, Code Synthesis Tools   http://codesynthesis.com/~boris/blog
Open source XML data binding for C++:   http://codesynthesis.com/products/xsd
Mobile/embedded validating XML parsing: http://codesynthesis.com/products/xsde


From crazybob at crazybob.org  Wed Jun 11 17:36:24 2008
From: crazybob at crazybob.org (Bob Lee)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 08:36:24 -0700
Subject: [Expat-discuss] Namespace attributes w/ namespace processing
	enabled
In-Reply-To: <g2oohe$80j$2@ger.gmane.org>
References: <a74683f90804151324tf363ae1rebfe01e6ce34480e@mail.gmail.com>
	<g2oohe$80j$2@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <a74683f90806110836j21360b0dubb85564cf6edeb3f@mail.gmail.com>

That's what I figured. Thanks, Boris!

Bob

On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 7:47 AM, Boris Kolpackov <boris at codesynthesis.com>
wrote:

> Hi Bob,
>
> "Bob Lee" <crazybob at crazybob.org> writes:
>
> > Is there any way to tell Expat to still include namespace attributes when
> > namespace processing is enabled?
>
> I don't think there is an option to do this though you probably
> can fake it by providing the namespace declaration handlers (see
> XML_SetNamespaceDeclHandler) and reconstructing the namespace
> declaration attributes from there.
>
> Boris
>
> --
> Boris Kolpackov, Code Synthesis Tools
> http://codesynthesis.com/~boris/blog<http://codesynthesis.com/%7Eboris/blog>
> Open source XML data binding for C++:
> http://codesynthesis.com/products/xsd
> Mobile/embedded <http://codesynthesis.com/products/xsdMobile/embedded>validating XML parsing:
> http://codesynthesis.com/products/xsde
>
> _______________________________________________
> Expat-discuss mailing list
> Expat-discuss at libexpat.org
> http://mail.libexpat.org/mailman/listinfo/expat-discuss
>

From josel2820 at gmail.com  Thu Jun 12 06:06:28 2008
From: josel2820 at gmail.com (Jose Luis _)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 23:06:28 -0500
Subject: [Expat-discuss] Problem with (ubuntu-eclipse cdt) and Expat
Message-ID: <f5fee82a0806112106u49e4de56i82e99c681aa5b5d5@mail.gmail.com>

Hello:
I am trying to use from (ubuntu - eclipse cdt) to expat but it  does not
recognize it, says that he does not find the directory  of  include
"xmlparse.h" , i need to load a xml file from a class in c++ , if someone
have examples, please can help me send it to josel2820 at gmail.com, thanks in
advance.

From altaf.navalur at gmail.com  Tue Jun 17 08:16:29 2008
From: altaf.navalur at gmail.com (Altaf Navalur)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:46:29 +0530
Subject: [Expat-discuss] Need help compiling version 1.95.4 on VS 2005
Message-ID: <e6e5497c0806162316h6632edbao4410f97f385c4742@mail.gmail.com>

 I am trying to compile Expat v 1.95.4 on PC. I am getting
lot of errors when I compile the code. I have to use this
version because I am porting a game and the game uses old
version. If I replace old version with new one, the game
crashes. Could any one please help with this.

Thanks in advance,
   Altaf
-- 
An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind.

From sfogoros at hsc.unt.edu  Fri Jun 20 19:02:04 2008
From: sfogoros at hsc.unt.edu (Steve Fogoros)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:02:04 -0500
Subject: [Expat-discuss] I need help with error message 'xml declaration not
	at start	of external entity'
References: <485B8F0D.C2A1.0037.0@hsc.unt.edu>
Message-ID: <485B9C3B.C2A1.0037.0@hsc.unt.edu>

Hello,
 
I'm using the PHP module XML Parser under PHP version 4.4.0.
 
I get the referenced error due to new lines before the preamble.
 
I've searched the error message and reviewed the w3c spec for
information on xml parsing. I haven't found anything that explicitly
states what a parser should do about leading white space outside of the
xml document. I've also noted that there are many failures of this type
reported on WordPress and RSS feed forums. In all cases, the correction
seems to be altering the provider application to submit the xml document
without any leading characters before the preamble.
 
My question is: does the xml spec explicitly specify that there be
nothing other than the preamble at the beginning of a well formed xml
doc? Is this something that shoud/could be addressed in the parser (it
sure would eliminate a lot of failed implementations)?
 
Thanks, Steve
 



** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential to the extent permitted by law and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the originator of the message and destroy all copies. **

From nickmacd at gmail.com  Mon Jun 23 14:52:12 2008
From: nickmacd at gmail.com (Nick MacDonald)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 08:52:12 -0400
Subject: [Expat-discuss] I need help with error message 'xml declaration
	not at start of external entity'
In-Reply-To: <485B9C3B.C2A1.0037.0@hsc.unt.edu>
References: <485B8F0D.C2A1.0037.0@hsc.unt.edu>
	<485B9C3B.C2A1.0037.0@hsc.unt.edu>
Message-ID: <bdcd32c90806230552x258ac74erd860336b6c4c15a6@mail.gmail.com>

Perhaps you're not reading the same XML spec I am, because to me it is
ABSOLUTELY clear that whitespace is not allowed to come before the XML
specification:

The primary rule states this:

document	   ::=   	 prolog  element  Misc*

Note that a prolog is defined as so:

prolog	   ::=   	 XMLDecl? Misc* (doctypedecl  Misc*)?

Which says the XMLDecl is optional, but if present, it would be defined as so:

XMLDecl	   ::=   	'<?xml' VersionInfo  EncodingDecl? SDDecl? S? '?>'

and since whitespace (the term 'S' as used in this ruleset) does not
appear to be mentioned until the end of the XMLDecl, it makes it
pretty clear its not allowed at the beginning.

If you don't like this behaviour, you'd be better off lobbying the W3C
to change the spec, but as it stands, eXpat is quite clearly enforcing
the rules of validity for an XML document.

Note that the rules also make it quite clear that you don't HAVE to
have a XMLDecl, and thus without it your document can have as much
initial whitespace as makes you happy...  (I have tested this with
eXpat and it works fully as expected.)

Nick


On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 1:02 PM, Steve Fogoros <sfogoros at hsc.unt.edu> wrote:
> I'm using the PHP module XML Parser under PHP version 4.4.0.
>
> I get the referenced error due to new lines before the preamble.
>
> I've searched the error message and reviewed the w3c spec for
> information on xml parsing. I haven't found anything that explicitly
> states what a parser should do about leading white space outside of the
> xml document. I've also noted that there are many failures of this type
> reported on WordPress and RSS feed forums. In all cases, the correction
> seems to be altering the provider application to submit the xml document
> without any leading characters before the preamble.
>
> My question is: does the xml spec explicitly specify that there be
> nothing other than the preamble at the beginning of a well formed xml
> doc? Is this something that shoud/could be addressed in the parser (it
> sure would eliminate a lot of failed implementations)?

-- 
Nick MacDonald
NickMacD at gmail.com

From sfogoros at hsc.unt.edu  Mon Jun 23 17:30:29 2008
From: sfogoros at hsc.unt.edu (Steve Fogoros)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 10:30:29 -0500
Subject: [Expat-discuss] I need help with error message 'xml	declaration
	not at start of external entity'
In-Reply-To: <bdcd32c90806230552x258ac74erd860336b6c4c15a6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <485B8F0D.C2A1.0037.0@hsc.unt.edu>
	<485B9C3B.C2A1.0037.0@hsc.unt.edu>
	<bdcd32c90806230552x258ac74erd860336b6c4c15a6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <485F7B45.C2A1.0037.0@hsc.unt.edu>

Thanks Nick,
 
I thought that too based on sections 2.1 and 2.8 of Extensible Markup
Language (XML) 1.0 (Second Edition) at
http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/REC-xml-20001006#NT-document . I was having
trouble with the single quotes around the XMLDecl declaration. I've
never seen that in a formal grammar and didn't want to assume it meant
that nothing comes before the prolog, if it exists.
 
I looked more closely and found section 2.4 of the specification does
address my question and I believe states that whitespace is allowed
before the XML specification:
 
Quoted from URL referenced above:
 
Text consists of intermingled character data and markup. [Definition:
Markup takes the form of start-tags, end-tags, empty-element tags,
entity references, character references, comments, CDATA section
delimiters, document type declarations, processing instructions, XML
declarations, text declarations, and any white space that is at the top
level of the document entity (that is, outside the document element and
not inside any other markup).]
Nick, do you read this the same way I do? And, in case I haven't
researched completely, has it been superceded in version 1.1?
 
Thanks again for validating my assumptions. I think I will pass this on
to the maintainers of expat
Steve Fogoros

>>> "Nick MacDonald" <nickmacd at gmail.com> 6/23/2008 7:52 AM >>>
Perhaps you're not reading the same XML spec I am, because to me it is
ABSOLUTELY clear that whitespace is not allowed to come before the XML
specification:

The primary rule states this:

document   ::=   prolog  element  Misc*

Note that a prolog is defined as so:

prolog   ::=   XMLDecl? Misc* (doctypedecl  Misc*)?

Which says the XMLDecl is optional, but if present, it would be defined
as so:

XMLDecl   ::=   '<?xml' VersionInfo  EncodingDecl? SDDecl? S? '?>'

and since whitespace (the term 'S' as used in this ruleset) does not
appear to be mentioned until the end of the XMLDecl, it makes it
pretty clear its not allowed at the beginning.

If you don't like this behaviour, you'd be better off lobbying the W3C
to change the spec, but as it stands, eXpat is quite clearly enforcing
the rules of validity for an XML document.

Note that the rules also make it quite clear that you don't HAVE to
have a XMLDecl, and thus without it your document can have as much
initial whitespace as makes you happy...  (I have tested this with
eXpat and it works fully as expected.)

Nick


On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 1:02 PM, Steve Fogoros <sfogoros at hsc.unt.edu>
wrote:
> I'm using the PHP module XML Parser under PHP version 4.4.0.
>
> I get the referenced error due to new lines before the preamble.
>
> I've searched the error message and reviewed the w3c spec for
> information on xml parsing. I haven't found anything that explicitly
> states what a parser should do about leading white space outside of
the
> xml document. I've also noted that there are many failures of this
type
> reported on WordPress and RSS feed forums. In all cases, the
correction
> seems to be altering the provider application to submit the xml
document
> without any leading characters before the preamble.
>
> My question is: does the xml spec explicitly specify that there be
> nothing other than the preamble at the beginning of a well formed
xml
> doc? Is this something that shoud/could be addressed in the parser
(it
> sure would eliminate a lot of failed implementations)?

-- 
Nick MacDonald
NickMacD at gmail.com 




** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential to the extent permitted by law and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the originator of the message and destroy all copies. **

From nickmacd at gmail.com  Tue Jun 24 16:46:58 2008
From: nickmacd at gmail.com (Nick MacDonald)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:46:58 -0400
Subject: [Expat-discuss] Fwd: I need help with error message 'xml
	declaration not at start of external entity'
In-Reply-To: <bdcd32c90806240746v10c25f60q5ea0eb8154c484db@mail.gmail.com>
References: <485B8F0D.C2A1.0037.0@hsc.unt.edu>
	<485B9C3B.C2A1.0037.0@hsc.unt.edu>
	<bdcd32c90806230552x258ac74erd860336b6c4c15a6@mail.gmail.com>
	<485F7B45.C2A1.0037.0@hsc.unt.edu>
	<bdcd32c90806240746v10c25f60q5ea0eb8154c484db@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bdcd32c90806240746q21ef65e1qf0edfe91ca0392cc@mail.gmail.com>

[Sorry, forgot to copy the rest of the list]


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Nick MacDonald <nickmacd at gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 10:46 AM
Subject: Re: [Expat-discuss] I need help with error message 'xml
declaration not at start of external entity'
To: Steve Fogoros <sfogoros at hsc.unt.edu>


Steve:

Careful to be sure you're reading what I wrote, and not what you want
to see... the Backus?Naur Form rules in the current XML spec are very
clear that whitespace is NOT ALLOWED where you wish they were.

http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/REC-xml-20060816/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backus%E2%80%93Naur_Form

The only rules you need to read are right here:

2.1 Well-Formed XML Documents
[Definition: A textual object is a well-formed XML document if:]
1.Taken as a whole, it matches the production labeled document.
2. It meets all the well-formedness constraints given in this specification.
3. Each of the parsed entities which is referenced directly or
indirectly within the document is well-formed.

Document
[1]     document           ::=          prolog element Misc*

[3]     S          ::=          (#x20 | #x9 | #xD | #xA)+

[22]    prolog     ::=           XMLDecl? Misc* (doctypedecl  Misc*)?
[23]    XMLDecl    ::=          '<?xml' VersionInfo EncodingDecl?
SDDecl? S? '?>'
[24]    VersionInfo        ::=          S 'version' Eq ("'" VersionNum "'" | '"'
VersionNum '"')
[25]    Eq         ::=          S? '=' S?
[26]    VersionNum         ::=          '1.0'
[27]    Misc       ::=          Comment | PI | S

What you'd be looking for is a way to get some S (3) into the front of
a valid expansion of document (1).  I can't see any way where this can
happen.  The text elsewhere in the document is not really specifically
applicable to your case... there is certainly nothing more normative
than the explict BNF grammar provided, so you have to follow its
rules.  You're confused by single quotes in the BNF?  Just assume
they're double quotes if that's less confusing... the expectation is
that they are literal strings showing the exact characters you would
need to supply at that point in the grammar.

Nothing is wrong with eXpat... it is acting exactly as the spec dictates.

Nick


On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 11:30 AM, Steve Fogoros <sfogoros at hsc.unt.edu> wrote:
> I thought that too based on sections 2.1 and 2.8 of Extensible Markup
> Language (XML) 1.0 (Second Edition) at
> http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/REC-xml-20001006#NT-document . I was having
> trouble with the single quotes around the XMLDecl declaration. I've
> never seen that in a formal grammar and didn't want to assume it meant
> that nothing comes before the prolog, if it exists.
>
> I looked more closely and found section 2.4 of the specification does
> address my question and I believe states that whitespace is allowed
> before the XML specification:
>
> Quoted from URL referenced above:
>
> Text consists of intermingled character data and markup. [Definition:
> Markup takes the form of start-tags, end-tags, empty-element tags,
> entity references, character references, comments, CDATA section
> delimiters, document type declarations, processing instructions, XML
> declarations, text declarations, and any white space that is at the top
> level of the document entity (that is, outside the document element and
> not inside any other markup).]
> Nick, do you read this the same way I do? And, in case I haven't
> researched completely, has it been superceded in version 1.1?
>
> Thanks again for validating my assumptions. I think I will pass this on
> to the maintainers of expat
> Steve Fogoros
>
>>>> "Nick MacDonald" <nickmacd at gmail.com> 6/23/2008 7:52 AM >>>
> Perhaps you're not reading the same XML spec I am, because to me it is
> ABSOLUTELY clear that whitespace is not allowed to come before the XML
> specification:
>
> The primary rule states this:
>
> document   ::=   prolog  element  Misc*
>
> Note that a prolog is defined as so:
>
> prolog   ::=   XMLDecl? Misc* (doctypedecl  Misc*)?
>
> Which says the XMLDecl is optional, but if present, it would be defined
> as so:
>
> XMLDecl   ::=   '<?xml' VersionInfo  EncodingDecl? SDDecl? S? '?>'
>
> and since whitespace (the term 'S' as used in this ruleset) does not
> appear to be mentioned until the end of the XMLDecl, it makes it
> pretty clear its not allowed at the beginning.
>
> If you don't like this behaviour, you'd be better off lobbying the W3C
> to change the spec, but as it stands, eXpat is quite clearly enforcing
> the rules of validity for an XML document.
>
> Note that the rules also make it quite clear that you don't HAVE to
> have a XMLDecl, and thus without it your document can have as much
> initial whitespace as makes you happy...  (I have tested this with
> eXpat and it works fully as expected.)
>
> Nick
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 1:02 PM, Steve Fogoros <sfogoros at hsc.unt.edu>
> wrote:
>> I'm using the PHP module XML Parser under PHP version 4.4.0.
>>
>> I get the referenced error due to new lines before the preamble.
>>
>> I've searched the error message and reviewed the w3c spec for
>> information on xml parsing. I haven't found anything that explicitly
>> states what a parser should do about leading white space outside of
> the
>> xml document. I've also noted that there are many failures of this
> type
>> reported on WordPress and RSS feed forums. In all cases, the
> correction
>> seems to be altering the provider application to submit the xml
> document
>> without any leading characters before the preamble.
>>
>> My question is: does the xml spec explicitly specify that there be
>> nothing other than the preamble at the beginning of a well formed
> xml
>> doc? Is this something that shoud/could be addressed in the parser
> (it
>> sure would eliminate a lot of failed implementations)?
>
> --
> Nick MacDonald
> NickMacD at gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential to the extent permitted by law and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the originator of the message and destroy all copies. **
> _______________________________________________
> Expat-discuss mailing list
> Expat-discuss at libexpat.org
> http://mail.libexpat.org/mailman/listinfo/expat-discuss
>



--
Nick MacDonald
NickMacD at gmail.com



-- 
Nick MacDonald
NickMacD at gmail.com

From sfogoros at hsc.unt.edu  Tue Jun 24 20:12:13 2008
From: sfogoros at hsc.unt.edu (Steve Fogoros)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:12:13 -0500
Subject: [Expat-discuss] Fwd: I need help with error message
	'xml	declaration not at start of external en
In-Reply-To: <bdcd32c90806240746q21ef65e1qf0edfe91ca0392cc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <485B8F0D.C2A1.0037.0@hsc.unt.edu>
	<485B9C3B.C2A1.0037.0@hsc.unt.edu>
	<bdcd32c90806230552x258ac74erd860336b6c4c15a6@mail.gmail.com>
	<485F7B45.C2A1.0037.0@hsc.unt.edu>
	<bdcd32c90806240746v10c25f60q5ea0eb8154c484db@mail.gmail.com>
	<bdcd32c90806240746q21ef65e1qf0edfe91ca0392cc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4860F2AD.C2A1.0037.0@hsc.unt.edu>

Nick,
 
Thank you for taking the time to help me work this out. I think in doing this kind of work, it's the nature of the beast to 'read what I want to see ...', and I am applying due diligence rather than have you do my work for me.
 
I misinterpreted the quotes on production [23] as a formal declaration that between the ' and the < at the beginning of '<?xml' there can be no other characters. While this is in fact true, it doesn't mean what I thought it meant in terms of no white space before XMLDoc. It is simply the system literal of the start of the XMLDoc declaration (as you said).
 
I agree the BNF rules should be all that is needed, but I find it is inconsistent with the Recommendation's descriptions regarding whitespace. In example, production [39] element ::= EmptyElemTag | STag content ETag, and production [40] STag ::= '<' Name (S Attribute)* S? '>', formally do not allow white space to exist as markup, yet, the Recommendation's descriptions on white space as markup within the document clearly allow and seem to encourage it (Section 2.10). Would it be true to say that current parsers that allow white space as markup within the document are not compliant with the recommendation since the BNF rule prohibits it? 
 
I've also found where the recommendation clearly states that "Each XML document has one entity called the document entity, which serves as the starting point for the XML processor and may contain the whole document." (Section 4), Section 2.4 describes white space as allowed at the top level of the document entity and specifically outside the document element (production [1]).
 
I haven't found any description that specifically prohibits white space prior to XMLDoc.
 
I trust I'm reading this correctly?
 
And, so I am clear about why I am looking this close at the spec, we (UNT Health Science Center, Academic Information Services) are implementing application handling of XML data and ran into the issue of white space prior to XMLDoc failing the application. I can fix the application or the XML Parser, but which one I fix depends on which one is broken. So before I start changing the application, I want to make sure it isn't the XML Parser. But from what I'm finding in the recommendation, I think the parser needs to be fixed, or the recommendation should be more concise. I can go either way.
 
Steve Fogoros
 
>>> "Nick MacDonald" <nickmacd at gmail.com> 6/24/2008 9:46 AM >>>
Steve:

Careful to be sure you're reading what I wrote, and not what you want
to see... the Backus*Naur Form rules in the current XML spec are very
clear that whitespace is NOT ALLOWED where you wish they were.

http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/REC-xml-20060816/ 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backus%E2%80%93Naur_Form 

The only rules you need to read are right here:

2.1 Well-Formed XML Documents
[Definition: A textual object is a well-formed XML document if:]
1.Taken as a whole, it matches the production labeled document.
2. It meets all the well-formedness constraints given in this specification.
3. Each of the parsed entities which is referenced directly or
indirectly within the document is well-formed.

Document
[1]     document           ::=          prolog element Misc*

[3]     S          ::=          (#x20 | #x9 | #xD | #xA)+

[22]    prolog     ::=           XMLDecl? Misc* (doctypedecl  Misc*)?
[23]    XMLDecl    ::=          '<?xml' VersionInfo EncodingDecl?
SDDecl? S? '?>'
[24]    VersionInfo        ::=          S 'version' Eq ("'" VersionNum "'" | '"'
VersionNum '"')
[25]    Eq         ::=          S? '=' S?
[26]    VersionNum         ::=          '1.0'
[27]    Misc       ::=          Comment | PI | S

What you'd be looking for is a way to get some S (3) into the front of
a valid expansion of document (1).  I can't see any way where this can
happen.  The text elsewhere in the document is not really specifically
applicable to your case... there is certainly nothing more normative
than the explict BNF grammar provided, so you have to follow its
rules.  You're confused by single quotes in the BNF?  Just assume
they're double quotes if that's less confusing... the expectation is
that they are literal strings showing the exact characters you would
need to supply at that point in the grammar.

Nothing is wrong with eXpat... it is acting exactly as the spec dictates.

Nick


On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 11:30 AM, Steve Fogoros <sfogoros at hsc.unt.edu> wrote:
> I thought that too based on sections 2.1 and 2.8 of Extensible Markup
> Language (XML) 1.0 (Second Edition) at
> http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/REC-xml-20001006#NT-document . I was having
> trouble with the single quotes around the XMLDecl declaration. I've
> never seen that in a formal grammar and didn't want to assume it meant
> that nothing comes before the prolog, if it exists.
>
> I looked more closely and found section 2.4 of the specification does
> address my question and I believe states that whitespace is allowed
> before the XML specification:
>
> Quoted from URL referenced above:
>
> Text consists of intermingled character data and markup. [Definition:
> Markup takes the form of start-tags, end-tags, empty-element tags,
> entity references, character references, comments, CDATA section
> delimiters, document type declarations, processing instructions, XML
> declarations, text declarations, and any white space that is at the top
> level of the document entity (that is, outside the document element and
> not inside any other markup).]
> Nick, do you read this the same way I do? And, in case I haven't
> researched completely, has it been superceded in version 1.1?
>
> Thanks again for validating my assumptions. I think I will pass this on
> to the maintainers of expat
> Steve Fogoros
>
>>>> "Nick MacDonald" <nickmacd at gmail.com> 6/23/2008 7:52 AM >>>
> Perhaps you're not reading the same XML spec I am, because to me it is
> ABSOLUTELY clear that whitespace is not allowed to come before the XML
> specification:
>
> The primary rule states this:
>
> document   ::=   prolog  element  Misc*
>
> Note that a prolog is defined as so:
>
> prolog   ::=   XMLDecl? Misc* (doctypedecl  Misc*)?
>
> Which says the XMLDecl is optional, but if present, it would be defined
> as so:
>
> XMLDecl   ::=   '<?xml' VersionInfo  EncodingDecl? SDDecl? S? '?>'
>
> and since whitespace (the term 'S' as used in this ruleset) does not
> appear to be mentioned until the end of the XMLDecl, it makes it
> pretty clear its not allowed at the beginning.
>
> If you don't like this behaviour, you'd be better off lobbying the W3C
> to change the spec, but as it stands, eXpat is quite clearly enforcing
> the rules of validity for an XML document.
>
> Note that the rules also make it quite clear that you don't HAVE to
> have a XMLDecl, and thus without it your document can have as much
> initial whitespace as makes you happy...  (I have tested this with
> eXpat and it works fully as expected.)
>
> Nick
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 1:02 PM, Steve Fogoros <sfogoros at hsc.unt.edu>
> wrote:
>> I'm using the PHP module XML Parser under PHP version 4.4.0.
>>
>> I get the referenced error due to new lines before the preamble.
>>
>> I've searched the error message and reviewed the w3c spec for
>> information on xml parsing. I haven't found anything that explicitly
>> states what a parser should do about leading white space outside of
> the
>> xml document. I've also noted that there are many failures of this
> type
>> reported on WordPress and RSS feed forums. In all cases, the
> correction
>> seems to be altering the provider application to submit the xml
> document
>> without any leading characters before the preamble.
>>
>> My question is: does the xml spec explicitly specify that there be
>> nothing other than the preamble at the beginning of a well formed
> xml
>> doc? Is this something that shoud/could be addressed in the parser
> (it
>> sure would eliminate a lot of failed implementations)?
>
> --
> Nick MacDonald
> NickMacD at gmail.com 
>
>
>
>
> ** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential to the extent permitted by law and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the originator of the message and destroy all copies. **
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>



--
Nick MacDonald
NickMacD at gmail.com 



-- 
Nick MacDonald
NickMacD at gmail.com 
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From nickmacd at gmail.com  Wed Jun 25 15:15:12 2008
From: nickmacd at gmail.com (Nick MacDonald)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 09:15:12 -0400
Subject: [Expat-discuss] Fwd: I need help with error message 'xml
	declaration not at start of external en
In-Reply-To: <4860F2AD.C2A1.0037.0@hsc.unt.edu>
References: <485B8F0D.C2A1.0037.0@hsc.unt.edu>
	<485B9C3B.C2A1.0037.0@hsc.unt.edu>
	<bdcd32c90806230552x258ac74erd860336b6c4c15a6@mail.gmail.com>
	<485F7B45.C2A1.0037.0@hsc.unt.edu>
	<bdcd32c90806240746v10c25f60q5ea0eb8154c484db@mail.gmail.com>
	<bdcd32c90806240746q21ef65e1qf0edfe91ca0392cc@mail.gmail.com>
	<4860F2AD.C2A1.0037.0@hsc.unt.edu>
Message-ID: <bdcd32c90806250615u613da9deyd3ba0209bb65243c@mail.gmail.com>

Steve:

I don't want to sound pedantic, but when it comes to spec's and most
especially BNF grammars, I think you have to be.  So with the mindset
in mind, I think you need to think "what would happen if I lifted the
BNF grammar out of the XML spec, put into a code generation tool and
made my own XML parser from that generated code?"  By my read, if you
did that, you would get the behaviour that eXpat exhibits.  (See [1]
below.)

(All that follows is simply my opinion, as I interpret the XML spec...
I am not a member of any XML spec writing organization.)
I want to be clear that the <?xml > declaration "tag" is not just
another XML tag like any other in your document, it is very special...
its more of a file signature than anything else, thus the reason why
it needs to appear very specifically at the beginning of the file.
(See [2] below.)  Whitespace and XML comments are allowed at any point
in the body of the document, but the body of the document does not
start until AFTER the XML declaration...

Its important to note that you do not need to include the XML
declaration on the file, but if you chose too, it needs to be the very
first characters in the file, no whitespace or comments before it.  If
it is omitted, then any whitespace or comments are allowed in the rest
of the XML document, and so could appear at the top of a file without
the XML declaration.  Perhaps your applications that produce white
space before the XML declaration could simply omit the declaration?
(Or you might have a special program that pre-formats the files, and
fixes them up to make them compliant?)

I hope this makes it clear...  your applications are what appears to
be broken... not the XML spec, and not eXpat.

Nick


[1]  I have no information on what tool, if any was used to actually
produce eXpat... in all honesty I have barely ever looked at the
actual eXpat source...  I am a true user in this case... I use it
cause it solves my problems... and its never done anything to me to
make me think it was broken, so I never looked into its internals.  In
fact, I have never ran into your specific case before, because I am
the type of XML user who uses XML as human generated input (usually
config or command files) and I always copy from a template file that
has always just worked.  That file has no space at the beginning...
but when I added it to try a test case based on your question, I saw
the same behaviour you're questioning.

[2] On Unix, there is the "file" command, and it looks for file
signatures.  It is configured by being told what and where to look for
things, and if it finds them, that is how it "types" a file.  If the
file could have a random amount of whitespace at the beginning, this
would make it harder to identify an XML file using this tool.


On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 2:12 PM, Steve Fogoros <sfogoros at hsc.unt.edu> wrote:
> Nick,
>
> Thank you for taking the time to help me work this out. I think in doing
> this kind of work, it's the nature of the beast to 'read what I want to see
> ...', and I am applying due diligence rather than have you do my work for
> me.
>
> I misinterpreted the quotes on production [23] as a formal declaration that
> between the ' and the < at the beginning of '<?xml' there can be no other
> characters. While this is in fact true, it doesn't mean what I thought it
> meant in terms of no white space before XMLDoc. It is simply the system
> literal of the start of the XMLDoc declaration (as you said).
>
> I agree the BNF rules should be all that is needed, but I find it is
> inconsistent with the Recommendation's descriptions regarding whitespace. In
> example, production [39] element ::= EmptyElemTag | STag content ETag, and
> production [40] STag ::= '<' Name (S Attribute)* S? '>', formally do not
> allow white space to exist as markup, yet, the Recommendation's descriptions
> on white space as markup within the document clearly allow and seem to
> encourage it (Section 2.10). Would it be true to say that current parsers
> that allow white space as markup within the document are not compliant with
> the recommendation since the BNF rule prohibits it?
>
> I've also found where the recommendation clearly states that "Each XML
> document has one entity called the document entity, which serves as the
> starting point for the XML processor and may contain the whole document."
> (Section 4), Section 2.4 describes white space as allowed at the top level
> of the document entity and specifically outside the document element
> (production [1]).
>
> I haven't found any description that specifically prohibits white space
> prior to XMLDoc.
>
> I trust I'm reading this correctly?
>
> And, so I am clear about why I am looking this close at the spec, we (UNT
> Health Science Center, Academic Information Services) are implementing
> application handling of XML data and ran into the issue of white space prior
> to XMLDoc failing the application. I can fix the application or the XML
> Parser, but which one I fix depends on which one is broken. So before I
> start changing the application, I want to make sure it isn't the XML Parser.
> But from what I'm finding in the recommendation, I think the parser needs to
> be fixed, or the recommendation should be more concise. I can go either way.
>
> Steve Fogoros
>
>>>> "Nick MacDonald" <nickmacd at gmail.com> 6/24/2008 9:46 AM >>>
> Steve:
>
> Careful to be sure you're reading what I wrote, and not what you want
> to see... the Backus-Naur Form rules in the current XML spec are very
> clear that whitespace is NOT ALLOWED where you wish they were.
>
> http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/REC-xml-20060816/
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backus? Naur_Form
>
> The only rules you need to read are right here:
>
> 2.1 Well-Formed XML Documents
> [Definition: A textual object is a well-formed XML document if:]
> 1.Taken as a whole, it matches the production labeled document.
> 2. It meets all the well-formedness constraints given in this specification.
> 3. Each of the parsed entities which is referenced directly or
> indirectly within the document is well-formed.
>
> Document
> [1]     document           ::=          prolog element Misc*
>
> [3]     S          ::=          (#x20 | #x9 | #xD | #xA)+
>
> [22]    prolog     ::=           XMLDecl? Misc* (doctypedecl  Misc*)?
> [23]    XMLDecl    ::=          '<?xml' VersionInfo EncodingDecl?
> SDDecl? S? '?>'
> [24]    VersionInfo        ::=          S 'version' Eq ("'" VersionNum "'" |
> '"'
> VersionNum '"')
> [25]    Eq         ::=          S? '=' S?
> [26]    VersionNum         ::=          '1.0'
> [27]    Misc       ::=          Comment | PI | S
>
> What you'd be looking for is a way to get some S (3) into the front of
> a valid expansion of document (1).  I can't see any way where this can
> happen.  The text elsewhere in the document is not really specifically
> applicable to your case... there is certainly nothing more normative
> than the explict BNF grammar provided, so you have to follow its
> rules.  You're confused by single quotes in the BNF?  Just assume
> they're double quotes if that's less confusing... the expectation is
> that they are literal strings showing the exact characters you would
> need to supply at that point in the grammar.
>
> Nothing is wrong with eXpat... it is acting exactly as the spec dictates.
>
> Nick
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 11:30 AM, Steve Fogoros <sfogoros at hsc.unt.edu>
> wrote:
>> I thought that too based on sections 2.1 and 2.8 of Extensible Markup
>> Language (XML) 1.0 (Second Edition) at
>> http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/REC-xml-20001006#NT-document . I was having
>> trouble with the single quotes around the XMLDecl declaration. I've
>> never seen that in a formal grammar and didn't want to assume it meant
>> that nothing comes before the prolog, if it exists.
>>
>> I looked more closely and found section 2.4 of the specification does
>> address my question and I believe states that whitespace is allowed
>> before the XML specification:
>>
>> Quoted from URL referenced above:
>>
>> Text consists of intermingled character data and markup. [Definition:
>> Markup takes the form of start-tags, end-tags, empty-element tags,
>> entity references, character references, comments, CDATA section
>> delimiters, document type declarations, processing instructions, XML
>> declarations, text declarations, and any white space that is at the top
>> level of the document entity (that is, outside the document element and
>> not inside any other markup).]
>> Nick, do you read this the same way I do? And, in case I haven't
>> researched completely, has it been superceded in version 1.1?
>>
>> Thanks again for validating my assumptions. I think I will pass this on
>> to the maintainers of expat
>> Steve Fogoros
>>
>>>>> "Nick MacDonald" <nickmacd at gmail.com> 6/23/2008 7:52 AM >>>
>> Perhaps you're not reading the same XML spec I am, because to me it is
>> ABSOLUTELY clear that whitespace is not allowed to come before the XML
>> specification:
>>
>> The primary rule states this:
>>
>> document   ::=   prolog  element  Misc*
>>
>> Note that a prolog is defined as so:
>>
>> prolog   ::=   XMLDecl? Misc* (doctypedecl  Misc*)?
>>
>> Which says the XMLDecl is optional, but if present, it would be defined
>> as so:
>>
>> XMLDecl   ::=   '<?xml' VersionInfo  EncodingDecl? SDDecl? S? '?>'
>>
>> and since whitespace (the term 'S' as used in this ruleset) does not
>> appear to be mentioned until the end of the XMLDecl, it makes it
>> pretty clear its not allowed at the beginning.
>>
>> If you don't like this behaviour, you'd be better off lobbying the W3C
>> to change the spec, but as it stands, eXpat is quite clearly enforcing
>> the rules of validity for an XML document.
>>
>> Note that the rules also make it quite clear that you don't HAVE to
>> have a XMLDecl, and thus without it your document can have as much
>> initial whitespace as makes you happy...  (I have tested this with
>> eXpat and it works fully as expected.)
>>
>> Nick
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 1:02 PM, Steve Fogoros <sfogoros at hsc.unt.edu>
>> wrote:
>>> I'm using the PHP module XML Parser under PHP version 4.4.0.
>>>
>>> I get the referenced error due to new lines before the preamble.
>>>
>>> I've searched the error message and reviewed the w3c spec for
>>> information on xml parsing. I haven't found anything that explicitly
>>> states what a parser should do about leading white space outside of
>> the
>>> xml document. I've also noted that there are many failures of this
>> type
>>> reported on WordPress and RSS feed forums. In all cases, the
>> correction
>>> seems to be altering the provider application to submit the xml
>> document
>>> without any leading characters before the preamble.
>>>
>>> My question is: does the xml spec explicitly specify that there be
>>> nothing other than the preamble at the beginning of a well formed
>> xml
>>> doc? Is this something that shoud/could be addressed in the parser
>> (it
>>> sure would eliminate a lot of failed implementations)?
>>
>> --
>> Nick MacDonald
>> NickMacD at gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail and any files transmitted with it
>> are confidential to the extent permitted by law and intended solely for the
>> use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have
>> received this e-mail in error please notify the originator of the message
>> and destroy all copies. **
>> _______________________________________________
>> Expat-discuss mailing list
>> Expat-discuss at libexpat.org
>> http://mail.libexpat.org/mailman/listinfo/expat-discuss
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Nick MacDonald
> NickMacD at gmail.com
>
>
>
> --
> Nick MacDonald
> NickMacD at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> Expat-discuss mailing list
> Expat-discuss at libexpat.org
> http://mail.libexpat.org/mailman/listinfo/expat-discuss
>
>
>
> ** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are
> confidential to the extent permitted by law and intended solely for the use
> of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received
> this e-mail in error please notify the originator of the message and destroy
> all copies. **
>



-- 
Nick MacDonald
NickMacD at gmail.com

From maxim2000 at tut.by  Mon Jun 16 19:04:57 2008
From: maxim2000 at tut.by (=?windows-1251?Q?=CC.=C2.?=)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 17:04:57 -0000
Subject: [Expat-discuss] Parsing copyright symbol
Message-ID: <web-13067187@speedy.tutby.com>

Hello!

I've a trouble with eXpat2.0.1. I'm sure my question is stupid, but I need 
the answer :) So, I ask you to help.

The problem is to read/write a copyright symbol (code 0xae) from/to xml 
file. I tried to use CDATA section, but it wasn't helpful. XmlContentTok() 
returns XML_TOK_INVALID.

Should I use utf16 instead of utf8? But UTF16 is not desirable for me... May 
be some extra defines or handlers?

Thanks in advance,
Maxim

P.S. please, answer to maxim2000 at tut.by
                        

------
?????? ?? ???????? ???????! ?????????????? ???????????????? ? ??. ?????.
??????????? ???????????: '?????? ?? ???????????? ????????????? ??????????', 
'?????? ????????????'. ??????????, (017)287-66-97, http://www.belrosbank.by


From sfogoros at hsc.unt.edu  Fri Jun 20 18:05:49 2008
From: sfogoros at hsc.unt.edu (Steve Fogoros)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:05:49 -0500
Subject: [Expat-discuss] I need help with error message 'xml declaration not
	at start	of external entity'
Message-ID: <485B8F0D.C2A1.0037.0@hsc.unt.edu>

Hello,
 
I'm using the PHP module XML Parser under PHP version 4.4.0.
 
I get the referenced error due to new lines before the preamble.
 
I've searched the error message and reviewed the w3c spec for
information on xml parsing. I haven't found anything that explicitly
states what a parser should do about leading white space outside of the
xml document. I've also noted that there are many failures of this type
reported on WordPress and RSS feed forums. In all cases, the correction
seems to be altering the provider application to submit the xml document
without any leading characters before the preamble.
 
My question is: does the xml spec explicitly specify that there be
nothing other than the preamble at the beginning of a well formed xml
doc? Is this something that shoud/could be addressed in the parser (it
sure would eliminate a lot of failed implementations)?
 
Thanks, Steve
 



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