[EuroPython] Voting structure on the web

[Andrew Smart]

europython-admin@python.org wrote:
> At 14:04 2003-07-15 +0200, Andrew Smart wrote:
>> First the question should have been: for what kind of votes you are
>> going to use this voting system?
> 
> Fair enough, but whatever questions plan to bring up, I think you
> are putting the cart in front of the horse if you set up some kind
> of technical voting system without a formal structure in place.

I was asking "where is the horse and where is the cart?"
 
> Agreed. But if the people who makes their voices heard on the list
> all agree, and noone opposes them on the list, I think that the others
> have given their silent approval or showed that they don't care.

But you don't know if you have the silent approval, thats my point.
So you can get ahead with 10 people and find yourself isolated without
knowing.

>> The problem is to "bootstraping" the whole thing, on either way.
> 
> But a technical solution for collecting votes can't solve the
> bootstrap problem. Collecting votes is simple. That's not the
> issue. Who has the right to formulate the questions? Who has the
> right to speak? Who has the right to say: "Enough said, we must
> vote now!" Who should interpret the votes? Who can vote? When is
> it right to put an issue to the vote? Who is bound by the result
> of the vote? To what degree? For how long? What can be done if
> results of votes are ignored? 
 
If you start a new democracy one of the first things you have to
do is 
- define who is going to be allowed to vote (say: a phyisical
  area, boundaries, ages or so)
- to register all possible voters

The first step is more or less anarchy. If there is no structure,
you don't have a structure. Point. So you can not use a structure
to build up the structure. Point.

If you talk about "bylaws" and "vote rules" you oversee in my opinion 
that you need to get enough people to accept this organisation to use
the rules. But: the whole discussion is about founding this
organisation. So you can not say "our" laws are the "bylaws" because
currently no one is member of anything. To get the people to be
member you'll have to found the stuff, and without anything you 
can not apply the bylaws or discussion rules. So "we" have to agree
on procedures how to discuss about and how to found this organisation, 
and for this you need some voting tool. You need both: a horse and 
a cart to get off the ground.

On way would be: "what the heck" and found with a few friends
the EPC non-profit-organisation, announce it and try to use this
organisation. Problem: you'll be ahead of the community and may
cause the split you mentioned above.

Andrew