[Edu-sig] Considering Python for an algebra course

[kirby urner]

On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 1:38 PM, David MacQuigg
<macquigg at ece.arizona.edu> wrote:
> At 11:14 AM 4/14/2009 -0700, kirby urner wrote:
>
>>> Depends on your own background in programming, and whether you need to do anything unusual like accelerate a program with a function in C.  My guess is the average math or science teacher will have no difficulty learning the basics of Python in a few weeks, and will get all the help they need from participants on this list.  The tutorials at http://docs.python.org/3.0/tutorial/index.html and http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide are excellent, and the tutorials (help files) on PyWhip will be even better for teaching specific topics like logic, strings, etc.
>>
>>Actually if you skip thinking like a computer scientist and just focus
>>on algebra, i.e. namespaces and operator overloading within the first
>>20 minutes,
>
> I think what you are saying is focus on teaching the language in the most efficient way possible, and leave the teaching of CS to others.  I agree 100%.  PhWhip is intended to help teachers avoid spending class time on syntax, and focus more of their efforts on teaching science, engineering, economics, whatever.  CS is still important, even for non-CS majors.  It's just not the focus of PyWhip.
>

Not thinking about PyWhip in particular, just our need to get on
towards our curriculum goals of playing with vectors all springing
from a common origin, like sea urchins, their tips the vertexes
defining v-to-v edges (like fences) around faces (or openings).

V + F = E + 2 and all that, starting in 2nd, 3rd grade with the
plastic volumes, skeletal construction kits, moving to Java applets
like vZome once more at home with mouse-driving GUI (like Scratch,
also suitable -- it's not either/or).

Not saying this is the only way to go, just addressing Maria's Math
Forum worry that our austere lexical environment would postpone
gratification too long -- why having Scratch handy might be good for
changing pace, also recess (real recess, not virtual recess).

I was reassuring her that we have eye-candy galore if you'll agree to
use scaffolding, i.e. FOSS already written, makes those polyhedra come
alive (mites, sytes, kites... the stuff we do in Portland).

http://www.4dsolutions.net/ocn/pymath.html

PyWhip could be a stop along the tour, no question, not unlike Pippy
in some ways.

Maybe the XO crowd will start hitting your Appengine?  That'd be cool.
 Do they have a signature in the HTTPrequest object somewhere (do you
know if an XO visits a site, calling card of any kind, maybe because
of the browser it's using?).

> PyWhip is also not intended to be a complete self-study tool.  Students need more than rote practice and repetition of what they see in examples.  It takes both theory and practice to learn efficiently, at least for adults.  Maybe kids are better at absorbing language without any theory.  Their minds are like dry sponges, absorbing water for the first time.  Adult minds are more like packed warehouses.  We've got to move something out before we can squeeze other stuff in.  We also have to keep the junk to a minimum, and that's where theory can help.  It can help our brains decide what is worth keeping, and what we should ignore or forget.
>

Whatever happened to the Vaults of Parnassus?
http://www.vex.net/parnassus/

We need more anthropology re Python Nation, Guido's "history of" blog
already anchoring the genre.  Tell us more, about mailman, about Zope,
about everything... as lore though, not always as source code (we know
there's that too -- hey, I used to be a Plone head, so sue me (metup
with Alan @ Pycon again, sounds like he's happy in Texas)).

We should explain explain Parnassus more e.g.:
http://www.siouxwire.com/2008_09_01_archive.html

"""
Parnassus was the name affectionately given to Corsencon Hill near New
Cumnock, Ayrshire, Scotland by the countries national bard - Robert
Burns. It now has the longest conveyer belt in Europe - The Python -
snaking past it, stretching 12.2km from an opencast mine to a railway
junction.
"""

We all knew that right?

>> then you'll leave these CS nerds in the dust within a year
>>or two, won't need 'em as sysadmins even. :)
>
> LOL. :>)  You underestimate the power of the nerds to complexify our systems.  Their jobs are secure! :>)
>
> -- Dave
>
>

The idea here is flagship pilot charters have their own intranets
administered by students themselves under faculty supervision, except
this is high school so there's no CS department, only a math
department, English department and so on.  English teaches DOM, math
teaches sysop skills -- not exclusively, not like both don't have
other things to be doing, but hey, four years is a long time to look
into stuff.

Remember:  RSA during summer camp (or maybe DHM or both --
cryptography for kids, a popular pass time, with a long tradition to
back it up.

And now for something completely different...

We have this weird "shell in the cloud" talk upcoming (OS Bridge), per
last night's meeting:

http://opensourcebridge.org/proposals/87

PPUG meeting tonight, might do a lightning talk on Red Cross situation.

Someone with Oregon Trail group's CTO got back to me on my blog rant
and we're thinking "it's Django time" (maybe, I'm quite taciturn, just
wanted her to know that Cubespace might help, not saying me
personally, do a free needs assessment maybe, Rails people could do
one too -- Audrey?).

Here's the rant:
http://worldgame.blogspot.com/2009/04/frustrated-with-red-cross.html

I've been freelance programming around Portland NGOs for like 20
years, have had Red Cross as a client, so it's not like I can't get
along with these people.  I'm quite easy to work with.

Maria, I hope you check out PyWhip, could be a good resource for your
students.  Andre's new edu-sig page is a veritable goldmine.

Should we be linking to Blender?  I've always found it really hard to
use, but maybe I just haven't watched the right blip.tv things yet.
We all have our biases.  I do respect it, just feel like I'm always a
beginner in Blender circles.

I'm a VPython fan, but it takes work to compile it, no one in my
workshop had gotten that far (fortunately, we could still do show &
tell).

Kirby