[Edu-sig] simple guessing games

[kirby urner]

On 9/11/06, Arthur <ajsiegel at optonline.net> wrote:

> Having unilaterally decided that some connection between something
> Fuller once said about ships (was it ?)

Yeah, the ribs of a hull become the eaves when you flip the boat over.
 More in my blog.

> and the fact that there is a programming language called Python
> which is a snake and has ribs (like a ship?) and uses double underscore
> syntax

More like a snake -- lots and lots of ribs in a snake.

> is so irrestibly clever that it deserves a place in the Urnian Pantheon
> and private language

Something like that, yes, except it's not quite as private as you'd
like, might make it to Saturday Morning cartoons or something (on an
instructional channel -- gotta find the transponder).

> we will be subject to references to it - in this public forum -  for how
> long???

What's your problem?  Big Boys at MIT are more relevant than Python
Pedagogy on edu-sig?  People don't have to like or implement my ideas,
nor I theirs, but at least I'm speaking to what's up on this list:
ways to teach Python effectively.

The __rib__ idea is actually very good, as it gets across the idea
that we're building reflex behaviors into a creature like object, one
with internal state (i.e. self).  It brings these so-called special
names into sharp focus, which is what many need, as the whole concept
of operator overriding is obscure to them, yet intrinsic in my
curriculum, where we want to add and subtract vector objects
naturally, using + and -, which means overriding __add__ and __sub__
as you know (two of the standard ribs).

> Hoping to influence that decision:
>
> a) One of design features of the programming language named after a
> comedy troup, not a reptile, that it seems to me is of  fundamental
> significance to tis success is its willingness to be outward facing, not
> inward - its willingness to leverage the use of  generally accepted and
> commonly used idioms, not be overly clever, i.e be a public language,
> not a private language.

The Monty Python allusion is becoming the more archaic with the
passing of time, and not because that's anyone's fault or a tragic
happening.  People will always go back to Monty Python on DVD and get
the allusions, lacing through early Python books especially, to the
Spanish Inquisition etc.

But to programmers not so versed in a previous generation's TV comedy
sourced from the UK, the snake image is simply more obvious.  Plus
it's on the logo, or Python Nation flag or whatever.

So my decision to unhook from British comedy and attach to a real
Python, is not just taken idley :-D

> b) Fuller only marginalized himself by resorting to private language.

He never marginalized himself.  He had very bold letterhead, covered
with awards and degrees, wrote many books, has many large structures
to his name, important patents, many students all over the world.
What *is* your problem?  Medal of Freedom from Ronald Reagan.  An
Institute (bfi.org).  What "marginalized himself"?  Nor am I doing
that to me.  You're trying to, apparently, but failing.  Go back to
fighting your teddy bear MIT.

> Clever enough poeple like myself find him unbearable to read, which is
> something quite different from being able to read him, were it bearable
> to do so.

I already gave you a good picture of my model:

My being a student of Bucky's stuff comes before any exposure to
Python, chronologically speaking, and while you were doing whatever
you did before Pygeo and Python, I was being BFI's first webmaster,
collaborating with Applewhite & Bonnie, other Krew, being a buckaneer.
 THEN I needed open source tools (as in powerful, affordable), so I
progressed through the languages I could learn, starting with the ones
I used professionally.  And THAT'S HOW I came to be here on edu-sig.
As a visiting Fuller Schooler, fully endowed and died in the wool or
whatever they call it.  Not shy about it, not apologetic.  So get over
it.

> c) Urner is not Fuller.
>
> Art

And duh once again?

Kirby