[Edu-sig] Oh, the TEACHERS!

[kirby urner]

On 9/8/06, Kevin Driscoll <driscollkevin at gmail.com> wrote:

> The poison leaks not from any individuals but rather from the schism
> between academia and the rest of the programming world.
>
> Kevin

I appreciate your moderating tone.

I've both been a full time high school teacher (mostly math -- private
Catholic academy not so far from World Trade Center NYC), worked for a
large text book publisher (McGraw Hill -- Avenue of the Americas), and
made a living as a professional programmer (big hospital systems, toe
to toe with GE), so at least I have a lot of relevant experience to
draw upon.

As a gnu math teacher, I'm living this nightmare where gnu software is
free, the jobs waiting, yet kids careers are being trashed by
know-nothing teacher-bots in servitude to Texas Instruments and
ancient textbooks devoid of important key topics.  As a Silicon Forest
exec, I team with Saturday Academy and PSU, other higher ed, to
circumvent this sad state of affairs, and we've made real progress.
Python is now used in many of our better academies.  Portland is an
"open source capital" (for real, not just on paper).

Python as a community needs to avoid breaking down as it's put under
increasing pressure and scrutiny by a lay public already suspicious of
snakes.  I've been taken to task on this list by some Europeans who
don't understand local politics, but some of our communities are still
just days out of Eden, and remember that Devil Snake with a passion,
blame it for everything from homosexuality to Hillary Clinton.  Now
something called Python shows up, and all these geek hackers start
talking about DARPA and __rib__ syntax, and the teachers just freak.
Not a good scene.  We try to avoid it.  But this is the real world:  a
front lines pitched battle over what we teach children.  'Twas ever
so.  In USA terminology, we call it "culture wars" and know that
politicians fight it badly, lamely, for the most part.

So, yes, I fear the politicization of the Python community, as it
comes into the public eye, as a prized asset in Public Schools (my
daughter is a 7th grader in a school designed for geeks and wizards,
because this is the Silicon Forest, home to the USA's most aggressive
Morlock culture, unless you count Steve Jobs).  We're in *no* danger
of losing Python, see it spreading quickly, but we *still* don't want
life to be difficult for our BDFL, and that means keeping things tidy,
neat and clean, well ordered and well oiled.  BDFL has to *mean*
something.  One thing is *doesn't* mean, has *never* meant, is mob
rule.

So I have to consider, every time someone comes up with a snowball
momentum gathering design, a "petition" or "sign here if you agree"
type document, to be tallied and scored, whether or not this is going
to help Guido and the management team.  I don't give teachers a lot of
credit for awareness of the ramifications of their "don't have time to
play by the rules, but listen to me anyway" exceptionalist attitudes.
Yes, I think it's a class issue.  The "expert doctors" are supposed to
know more.  But given my background in Princeton Philosophy, I've
become *deeply* suspicious of that reflex.  I've seen too much of the
damage it does.  The 1960s "question authority" ethic was stronger
(ended a war, whereas today we send young people into carnage
seemingly with no ability to help ourselves -- and I say the Ivory
Tower is asleep at the switch, to top it all off).

OK, by now everyone still reading is wondering what *any* of this has
to do with raw_input.  I've tried to give a sense of my sensibilities.
 Here is a summary:

(1) people who want input into Python3000's design should research the
process and submit feedback in their own names, with their own
reputations on the line, not as "one of a crowd of people" and
*especially* not as "the undersigned subscribers of edu-sig" (that'd
be pure brain rot from my perspective)

(2) prompting oneself for input is a holdover from prehistoric dino
terminal window days and should not be front and center.  Just like
with 'copy' we put it up on a shelf, to discourage accessing this
'honey jar' of a previous generation (bad habits are hard to break)

(3) Python is coming under public pressure consequent to various
future shock type happenings in the culture wars, which impinge on
USAers just as surely as on poor peasants in Afghantistans, sucked
into contests not entirely of their own making i.e. the real world is
a very rough place, and this scrutiny will stress our community

(4) Guido really is benevolent and doing a good job, has a strong
track record, so this question of whether "edu-sig" should start
issuing "take me seriously" petitions is not just a minor one.  I say:
 keep it the way it is, with edu-sig *outward facing* (helping advance
Python) and not inwardly contemplating its own development process
(aka navel gazing).  Don't let the Ivory Tower get the upper hand.
Having worked both sides of the fence, I know there's evil in *both*
camps (i.e. there *should* be some tension -- between two competing
brands of evil shall we say).

We're on the front lines here, and don't have time to get involved in
petty politics.

How shall we teach Calculus?

That's the kind of thing.

Not:  do we have enough political clout to block work already marked
as *DONE* (get it?  as in finished, over, complete -- and now it's
"oh, but what if we *teachers* don't agree?"  I say:  "C'mon, get
real.").

Kirby