[Edu-sig] Lowering the barriers to programming

[Arthur]

Kirby Urner wrote:

>>Subject: Re: [Edu-sig] I've just started reading this paper
>>
>>    
>>
>>>If anyone else wants to grab a copy and chat about it after reading,
>>>let me know.
>>>
>>>--Scott David Daniels
>>>Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org
>>>      
>>>
>>Downloading now...  I anticipate having some comments.
>>
>>Kirby
>>    
>>
>
>So I've been through it once.
>  
>
I've been through it more briefly.  More Pausch.  Not my favorite.

>Another axis:  how were each of these funded, e.g. which were expected to
>earn a return in the market place?  Rocky's Boots was a for-sale product as
>I recall (and worth buying).
>  
>
I thought we weren't supposed to acknowledge a consciousness of these 
kinds of issues ;)

>A central purpose of all these systems was never addressed:  they give
>computer scientists interesting work, dreaming up playful gizmos for guinea
>pigs.  To pretend all these toyz are *just* about making programming
>accessible to beginners is inauthentic -- it's also about doing something
>challenging and fun (and fundable) with one's CS education.  Let's be up
>front about that shall we?  Nothing to be ashamed of.
>  
>
Yes.

But it is indeed something to be ashamed of exactly to the extent there 
is inauthenticity. And I have the same sense as you, apparently,  as to 
many of these projects.

As much as I dissed Alice, I acknowledged that it as educational *for 
the students involved in helping to build it*.

And as much hope as I have for PyGeo, all I say about it for sure is 
that building it has been an education for  the developer  - me.

But in truth I suspect PyGeo to me a little more authentic - if less 
polished - than many other efforts cited here, perhaps precisely because 
there is no CS education that needed to be  justified by it, and no 
funders that need to be satisfied by it, and it was built to precise 
specifications (in some sense) to serve an actual need - my own  Much 
less speculative, in that sense.

>There seems to be a premise that providing a relevant context (answering the
>question:  why program?) needs to be motivated from within the interface or
>product itself.  I'd say that's more a job for the wider culture:  to show
>role model peers using programming skills on TV, in movies.  Maybe there's
>nothing lab coated technicians might do, in isolation, to make CS seem less
>geeky.  Nor is it a given that "attracting people to programming" is the
>same thing as "attracting people to CS".  There's overlap, sure.
>  
>
I think the answer "why program" has to be be embedded in the effort to 
teach programming.  You are a student -  and it is submitted that 
learning to program can help you pursue learning goals. Mathematics, 
geometry, etc.. Just as - if you were in business, learning to program 
might help you pursue business goals. 

Programming is a practical art, and we will be practical with it  
out-of-the-box. And stick with the obvious. Mathematics, geometry, etc.  .

Feel free to pursue 3d world building. Sounds like fun.  I encourage you 
to do so, in fact.  But not in school - as 3d world building is not a 
subject here.

Math is.

We are not trying to make programming inaccessible and boring.  We are 
trying to demonstrate that programming is a practical art.  We are in in 
school.  We will do with it the kinds of things that one does in 
school.  And it is in fact hard.  There will be homework, there will be 
tests, you might not do well at it, you might not even like it. But I 
do, which is why I am teaching it.  And it is my job to help you 
understand why I like it.  I will do my best.

>What I think more kids would like:  an easier way to program web sites that
>function more like mazes, i.e. as browsers get more deeply into them, they
>become more likely to be the people you'd like to interact with.  Casual
>browsers drift off, frustrated by all the puzzles.
>  
>
If we truly think programming is important, we will concern ourselves 
less with what "more kids would like". 

We will direct them in a way that is in their interests, and we will let 
them fail - if they insist.

Art