[Edu-sig] Top 5 All Time Novice Obstacles => #3 Where am I ?

[Jason Cunliffe]

> In looking at ActiveScript and Rebol, you are looking at projects of an

^^^^^^ ActionScript

> essentially different kind than Python.  As commercial products, they
> maintain a consistency of look, feel, approach which can be comforting and
> confidence inspiring.

hmmm... Python is incredibly consistent. Almost all the docs follow same style.
Error messages are untiringly consistent in tone and detail. FlashMx and Rebol
both have big problems. The value of the exercise I suggest is in learning from
the good ideas, wherever they lie and asking where they benefit Python and vice
versa. And if so, how to achieved that efficiently, using avaialable paradigms
and features.

Rebol is proprietary, and does not benefit from Python's wonderful openSource
license or its vast community. As you can imagine this is a topic of frequent
heated debate, because Rebol developers want to see this charming and unique
langauge thrive. No-one works in a vaccum - they know what alternatives exist.

REBOL is developed by a small private company team at Rebol Technologies, under
the direction of the talented Carl Sassenrath. Core parts of Rebol are available
free, including the basic /View GUI extension. Others are subject to
licensing/royalty contracts. It runs over approx. 40 operating systems, has a
tiny imprint, and  is perhaps the simplest fastest installation I've ever seen.
Some aspects of Rebol make it extraordinarily friendly to beginners. Ironically,
not because of the published documentation [which painfully lacks and lags]. It
is the ease and simplicity of many ideas and design decisions in Rebol, which
help to make it fast fun powerful. In the US it is pretty much unknown. To my
knowledge now one in Edu-Sig world is doign anything with it. It's a shame. I
hear that in France, univsersities and researchers like it.

Rebol has great ideas and is full of fascinating potential, but currently lacks
either the commercial support it needs, or preferably the momentum of a strong
openSource community like Python. Not withstanding all this, it rests with
Python as a windeful modern Edu-Sig language. Strange interacial child of FORTH,
LISP, and LOGO. Try it and see..

Flash has gone though constant upheaval since I first encountered it in 1996.
Across the latest range of the 'MX' products, Macromedia has tried to present a
consistent UI. In geneneral they mave made very good improvements over the past
18 months, responding to the large, and loud, complaints from experienced
programmers who, at first reluctantly, were obliged to work with these tools.

At the same time, many non-programmers intitally complained that suddenly
everything had gotten too complex and 'geeky'. I am happy to report that phase
is over, and now programming in FlashMX is somthing people really want to learn.
Which has fuelled the rather remarkable phenomenon of expensive highly
illustrated programming books about it. Approx each month there is a new one!
Again and again there signs that a new kind of programming [scripting ]culture
is emerging.

People are falling backweards frmo Flash into needing, wanting to know how to
develop basic Math and trig skills. A strange 'indie' math programming folklore
is evident across the Internet in Flash forums. For example often initially
driven by a desire to render ciruclar movements, flash artists have to
re-discover basic geometry [Euclid] and trig. To create smooth movements they
start re-inventing rudimentary calculus.Beuae flash has instrinsci sequence and
time-motion engine, it makes a rich platform to explore proces, dynamics and
calculus. Many of these artists are not going back to shool. They missed crucial
lessons becuase they did not understand it or appreciate its usefulness at the
time. Now they are getting it. Most them probably do not *yet* know about
Python, or what it can do for them. I'll stick my neck out and say that there is
a generation is in this predicament right now.

I think that is very relevant to Edu-Sig.

> Not that I mean to insult you about not having worked alot with open source
> type projects. But just don't know whether yu have made the connection here
> to what might be bugging you.

As I hope I've made clear, no that's not what is bugging me. I love and use lots
of open source tools. I prefer them by and large. I want to see this one learn
well from the other. Do we agree the goal is to develop programming skills in
everyone and from a young age?

And that visual arts, music, media and literature have an important role to play
in that?
I am interested in the continuum of play => design => programming.
Interactive visual geometry included.

The great news is Python is also being adopted as API scripting platform for
sophisticated creative media arts software. Including professional and
commercial ones with  big price tags. But not only them. That's helpful because
it widens the culture, [and bringing with it clashes too, and crazy people like
you and me.]
Not yet filtered down for novices and young children. Its a challenge..

./Jason