[Edu-sig] would you use PythonCard?

[Kirby Urner]

>
>OK. Right now I can't show nice higher level GUI builder
>for Python. That means that Python is out of reach for those educational 
>users who need to perform concrete tasks fast.
>THis is not good.

"Concrete tasks" is not the same thing as being able to
build a GUI.  As Alan pointed out earlier, the IDLE shell
is itself a GUI, and within in you can import whatever
modules, write your own, and get a lot done interactively.
When it comes to educational uses for Python, I can easily
envision courses which involve no Tk or Pmw/Tk or wxPython
at all, or any other graphical widgets kits.

Also, for very simple interfaces, it's possible to just do
HTML forms and wire 'em to Python via cgi.  So if the goal
is to give users shared access to lookup tables or something,
the solution is often to just use their browsers, which
they're familiar with anyway.  You can even have Python
generate the forms on the fly, if you need the interface
to adjust based on previous inputs (using XML to drive
interfaces is starting to be a pretty standard technology,
especially in the world of hand-helds).

I'm not saying GUIs aren't useful -- of course they are.
I just don't think introductory programming or the kind
of math-through-programming I do necessitates diving into
GUI stuff right away.

Your saying "concrete tasks" aren't doable without widgets
seems too broad.  *Some* concrete tasks.  But I resist the
tendency to equate programming with GUI development.

One of the books I use is "Concrete Mathematics" and I
can do a lot of the stuff in that book with no GUI
beyond IDLE itself.  Even graphics can be done without
writing a GUI interface, e.g. the VPython kit pops up
real time graphical content in a Tk window, in a modified
IDLE.  Or for non-real-time graphics (e.g. geometry stuff),
you can output a text file and render it in Povray.
I do this all the time with no overhead invested in a
Tk-style interface (beyond IDLE).

Kirby