From b2b@designermoulding.net Sun Mar 3 02:15:49 2002 From: b2b@designermoulding.net (Designer Hardwoods & Mouldings Inc) Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 21:15:49 -0500 Subject: [Conferences-discuss] An Invitation to our Site... Message-ID: <200203030215.g232Fcn31140@host37.hostingcheck.com> You were added to this list by someone entering your email to our "refer a friend" link on our website. To be removed see below -------------------------------------------------- Hi, We would like to invite you to our site. We offer Hardwoods, Moulding, Carved Products Hardware, Onlays etc. Come over today to visit. http://www.designermoulding.net Webmasters, we would be interested in exchanging links with you. If interested please contact me at b2b@designermoulding.net with link in the subject line ___________________________________________________ To be removed type Remove in the subject line and email it to b2b@designermoulding.net From guido@python.org Mon Mar 4 15:13:48 2002 From: guido@python.org (Guido van Rossum) Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 10:13:48 -0500 Subject: [Conferences-discuss] What happened? Message-ID: <200203041513.g24FDnf27480@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> I thought that maybe I had been accidentally unsubscribed from this list, but no. According to the archives, nothing has been posted (except spam) since Feb 15. That's a record for a short-lived mailing list created right after a Python conference! :-( But we don't have any conclusions. What shall we do? If it were me, I'd try the following (which I've proposed before): 1. Have a full Python Conference co-located with OSCON 2003; this would probably be end of July in San Diego again. 2. Have a dirt cheap conference organized by YAS together with Python volunteers. Kevin Lenzo of YAS once told me they can do it in June at CMU (Pittsburgh). --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/) From skip@pobox.com Mon Mar 4 15:31:23 2002 From: skip@pobox.com (Skip Montanaro) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:31:23 -0600 Subject: [Conferences-discuss] What happened? In-Reply-To: <200203041513.g24FDnf27480@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> References: <200203041513.g24FDnf27480@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> Message-ID: <15491.37707.964155.281020@beluga.mojam.com> Guido> What shall we do? If it were me, I'd try the following (which Guido> I've proposed before): Guido> 1. Have a full Python Conference co-located with OSCON 2003; this Guido> would probably be end of July in San Diego again. Guido> 2. Have a dirt cheap conference organized by YAS together with Guido> Python volunteers. Kevin Lenzo of YAS once told me they can Guido> do it in June at CMU (Pittsburgh). +1. In my opinion the most important thing to do is to at least try #2 to see what effect it has on turnout. Skip From gward@python.net Mon Mar 4 15:50:56 2002 From: gward@python.net (Greg Ward) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:50:56 -0500 Subject: [Conferences-discuss] What happened? In-Reply-To: <200203041513.g24FDnf27480@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> References: <200203041513.g24FDnf27480@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> Message-ID: <20020304155056.GA1342@gerg.ca> On 04 March 2002, Guido van Rossum said: > But we don't have any conclusions. What shall we do? If it were me, > I'd try the following (which I've proposed before): > > 1. Have a full Python Conference co-located with OSCON 2003; this > would probably be end of July in San Diego again. > > 2. Have a dirt cheap conference organized by YAS together with Python > volunteers. Kevin Lenzo of YAS once told me they can do it in June > at CMU (Pittsburgh). It seemed to me like everyone agreed on this basic idea. That only leaves an enormous mountain of details (where, when, how much, what kind of coffee, what colour the name badges should be, etc.) to hash out, and I think we were mostly trying to avoid that debate until settling the bigger one. So, on to the Mountain of Details? Greg -- Greg Ward - programmer-at-large gward@python.net http://starship.python.net/~gward/ Pointers are Arrays; Code is Data; Time is Money From outros@kyky.zzn.com Mon Mar 4 16:20:30 2002 From: outros@kyky.zzn.com (Bordeaux Buffet) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:20:30 -0300 Subject: [Conferences-discuss] Não Compre... Alugue! Message-ID: Não Compre... Alugue!

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From altis@semi-retired.com Mon Mar 4 16:30:43 2002 From: altis@semi-retired.com (Kevin Altis) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:30:43 -0800 Subject: [Conferences-discuss] What happened? In-Reply-To: <200203041513.g24FDnf27480@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> Message-ID: > But we don't have any conclusions. What shall we do? If it were me, > I'd try the following (which I've proposed before): > > 1. Have a full Python Conference co-located with OSCON 2003; this > would probably be end of July in San Diego again. > > 2. Have a dirt cheap conference organized by YAS together with Python > volunteers. Kevin Lenzo of YAS once told me they can do it in June > at CMU (Pittsburgh). +1 I thought from the posts that we had consensus on the two conference approach. I'm a bit concerned about both conferences being around the same time of year, but since it is the summer maybe it doesn't matter? I want to see how the "cheap" conference goes because after looking at the Python User Groups list I realized we have groups in Portland, Oregon, Seattle, and Vancouver, B.C. (plus ActiveState in Vancouver), so a NorthWest conference/get together on the cheap is probably doable. ka From aahz@rahul.net Mon Mar 4 17:24:44 2002 From: aahz@rahul.net (Aahz Maruch) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:24:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Conferences-discuss] What happened? In-Reply-To: <200203041513.g24FDnf27480@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> from "Guido van Rossum" at Mar 04, 2002 10:13:48 AM Message-ID: <20020304172445.5A243E8D4@waltz.rahul.net> Guido van Rossum wrote: > > 1. Have a full Python Conference co-located with OSCON 2003; this > would probably be end of July in San Diego again. Figured you'd handle this. ;-) > 2. Have a dirt cheap conference organized by YAS together with Python > volunteers. Kevin Lenzo of YAS once told me they can do it in June > at CMU (Pittsburgh). Seems to me that even more than most conventions, the critical resource for the dirt-cheap conference is facilities, so we need to find someone or some group willing to handle that (and pick a date) before we do anything else. I suggested earlier that we ask YAS to set up a donation pool for getting the necessary front money, but I didn't get a clear response on what was needed for that. -- --- Aahz (@pobox.com) Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 <*> http://www.rahul.net/aahz/ Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista We must not let the evil of a few trample the freedoms of the many. From aahz@rahul.net Mon Mar 4 17:27:21 2002 From: aahz@rahul.net (Aahz Maruch) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:27:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Conferences-discuss] Let's step back a bit... In-Reply-To: <3C6C01AC.43ACC285@activestate.com> from "David Ascher" at Feb 14, 2002 10:27:56 AM Message-ID: <20020304172722.534F2E8D4@waltz.rahul.net> [finally getting tuits for an old message] David Ascher wrote: > > Note that the YAS model is "dirt cheap" and "volunteer heavy". This may > or may not be what best fits the Python community. I'm especially > worried about the volunteer heavy part =). I'm not. The Python community has been pretty "can do" overall, and we can always structure things to get by with fewer volunteers -- as long as we've got a decent facilities team. -- --- Aahz (@pobox.com) Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 <*> http://www.rahul.net/aahz/ Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista We must not let the evil of a few trample the freedoms of the many. From guido@python.org Mon Mar 4 17:43:26 2002 From: guido@python.org (Guido van Rossum) Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 12:43:26 -0500 Subject: [Conferences-discuss] What happened? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 04 Mar 2002 09:24:44 PST." <20020304172445.5A243E8D4@waltz.rahul.net> References: <20020304172445.5A243E8D4@waltz.rahul.net> Message-ID: <200203041743.g24HhQE28251@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> > > 1. Have a full Python Conference co-located with OSCON 2003; this > > would probably be end of July in San Diego again. > > Figured you'd handle this. ;-) Yes. > > 2. Have a dirt cheap conference organized by YAS together with Python > > volunteers. Kevin Lenzo of YAS once told me they can do it in June > > at CMU (Pittsburgh). > > Seems to me that even more than most conventions, the critical resource > for the dirt-cheap conference is facilities, so we need to find someone > or some group willing to handle that (and pick a date) before we do > anything else. Read what I wrote again. :-) Kevin was offering me specific facilities at a specific date. All we need is ask (I think David Ascher offered to be the YAS relay). > I suggested earlier that we ask YAS to set up a donation pool for > getting the necessary front money, but I didn't get a clear response > on what was needed for that. I don't understand why you would need that money. Is this how YAS gets its YAPC going? --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/) From DavidA@ActiveState.com Mon Mar 4 17:51:32 2002 From: DavidA@ActiveState.com (David Ascher) Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 09:51:32 -0800 Subject: [Conferences-discuss] What happened? References: <20020304172445.5A243E8D4@waltz.rahul.net> <200203041743.g24HhQE28251@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> Message-ID: <3C83B424.15748AF2@activestate.com> > I don't understand why you would need that money. Is this how YAS > gets its YAPC going? No. YAS doesn't need money up front. One item left TODO on my plate was to setup the poll to gather feedback from a broard set of conference attendees. I was hoping that someone w/ more web experience would pipe up to do the actual polling software, but that hasn't happened. I'll pick up that item and start coding/designing the form. Give me a few days... --david From aahz@rahul.net Mon Mar 4 18:05:46 2002 From: aahz@rahul.net (Aahz Maruch) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:05:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Conferences-discuss] What happened? In-Reply-To: <200203041743.g24HhQE28251@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> from "Guido van Rossum" at Mar 04, 2002 12:43:26 PM Message-ID: <20020304180547.5FE0CE8FB@waltz.rahul.net> Guido van Rossum wrote: > Aahz: >> Guido: >>> >>> 2. Have a dirt cheap conference organized by YAS together with Python >>> volunteers. Kevin Lenzo of YAS once told me they can do it in June >>> at CMU (Pittsburgh). >> >> Seems to me that even more than most conventions, the critical resource >> for the dirt-cheap conference is facilities, so we need to find someone >> or some group willing to handle that (and pick a date) before we do >> anything else. > > Read what I wrote again. :-) Kevin was offering me specific > facilities at a specific date. All we need is ask (I think David > Ascher offered to be the YAS relay). Gotcha. Wasn't clear whether they were offering to help (and happened to know that the facility was available) or offering to *be* facilities coordinators. >> I suggested earlier that we ask YAS to set up a donation pool for >> getting the necessary front money, but I didn't get a clear response >> on what was needed for that. > > I don't understand why you would need that money. Is this how YAS > gets its YAPC going? If YAS is running facilities for us, it's probably not necessary (given their track record). My experience with running conventions is that front money tends to grease things with facilities quite a bit, and that goes double or triple for a new convention. -- --- Aahz (@pobox.com) Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 <*> http://www.rahul.net/aahz/ Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista We must not let the evil of a few trample the freedoms of the many. From mwh@python.net Tue Mar 5 10:04:59 2002 From: mwh@python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: 05 Mar 2002 10:04:59 +0000 Subject: [Conferences-discuss] What happened? In-Reply-To: Guido van Rossum's message of "Mon, 04 Mar 2002 10:13:48 -0500" References: <200203041513.g24FDnf27480@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> Message-ID: <2meliznxdg.fsf@starship.python.net> Guido van Rossum writes: > 2. Have a dirt cheap conference organized by YAS together with Python > volunteers. Kevin Lenzo of YAS once told me they can do it in June > at CMU (Pittsburgh). Which June? I.e. 2002 or 2003? Cheers, M. -- surely, somewhere, somehow, in the history of computing, at least one manual has been written that you could at least remotely attempt to consider possibly glancing at. -- Adam Rixey From guido@python.org Tue Mar 5 13:23:38 2002 From: guido@python.org (Guido van Rossum) Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 08:23:38 -0500 Subject: [Conferences-discuss] What happened? In-Reply-To: Your message of "05 Mar 2002 10:04:59 GMT." <2meliznxdg.fsf@starship.python.net> References: <200203041513.g24FDnf27480@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> <2meliznxdg.fsf@starship.python.net> Message-ID: <200203051323.g25DNdF31782@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> > > 2. Have a dirt cheap conference organized by YAS together with Python > > volunteers. Kevin Lenzo of YAS once told me they can do it in June > > at CMU (Pittsburgh). > > Which June? I.e. 2002 or 2003? We're only talking about 2003 and beyond here! In 2002 we've got enough conferences. --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/) From lac@strakt.com Wed Mar 6 15:21:20 2002 From: lac@strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 16:21:20 +0100 Subject: [Conferences-discuss] What happened? In-Reply-To: Message from "Kevin Altis" of "Mon, 04 Mar 2002 08:30:43 PST." References: Message-ID: <200203061521.g26FLLtB015382@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> I don't understand this part of Kevin Altis' post: > I'm a bit concerned about both conferences being around the same > time of year, but since it is the summer maybe it doesn't matter? If you anticipate people travelling from far distances, then you either schedule one conference directly on the heels of another, and perferably a short train/bus ride apart, so people can plan on coming to both with a minimum of disruption in their lives, or you schedule them far enough apart that people have pleanty of time to recover from one before they have to make plans for the other. I know many people in Europe who attend OSCON whenever possible. They might attend IPC if they could do it in one trip (though Pittsburg/ San Diego is not close). Spending all July going to and from Python conferences is not an option. You are going to want papers at both conferences, no? Then you will either have to accept the same papers at both conventions -- or you will set up a double standard -- 'if the paper is any good, I will submit it to OSCON, if they reject it I can always submit it to IPC'. Students and others who cannot ask for time off like conferences in the summer because that is when they can be sure to attend. But people who can ask for time off to attend conferences, or whose companies pay for them to attend conferences dislike summer conferences because they conflict with their vacation time. (To be sure, they can ask for vacation time sometime else -- but their families often cannot). I don't know the demographics of the potential IPC attendees, but it would be a good question for the poll. I suspect a question 'Summer conference : strongly like, like, makes no difference, dislike, strongly dislike' will produce a V shaped graph with most entires on either end -- but it might be a check-mark, or a check-mark-made-by-a-left-handed-person. Laura Creighton From skip@pobox.com Wed Mar 6 16:02:55 2002 From: skip@pobox.com (Skip Montanaro) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 10:02:55 -0600 Subject: [Conferences-discuss] What happened? In-Reply-To: <200203061521.g26FLLtB015382@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> References: <200203061521.g26FLLtB015382@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <15494.15791.501539.821939@beluga.mojam.com> Laura> You are going to want papers at both conferences, no? Yes, but I think the focus will be different. OSCON might be the conference with the more rigorously refereed papers (for the academic types who are trying to get tenure ;-) and the YAS focus more on activities that more directly advance the language or its environment - sprints, developers' day, etc. Skip From info@yaritomo.net Sun Mar 17 17:01:48 2002 From: info@yaritomo.net (rouge) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 02:01:48 +0900 Subject: [Conferences-discuss] !=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOS05cBsoQg==?=! Message-ID: <0318102020148.461@oemcomputer> $B$3$l$O9-9p$G$9(B $B!!#1#8:P0J>e$NJ}$X$N!"$40FFb%a!<%k$G$9!#(B $B!!6=L#$N$"$kJ}$O!"0J2<$N%Z!<%8$r$4Mw2<$5$$!#(B $B!!(Bhttp://www.neoxanadu.net/~a_rouge/ $B!!(B $B9-9pDs6!$r4uK>$5$l$J$$J}$N0U;VI=<($NJ}K!(B $B$=$N#1!%2?$b$7$J$$!#!J%a!<%kAw?.$O0lEY8B$j$G$9!#:#8e$OAw?.$5$l$^$;$s!#!K(B $B$=$N#2!%0J2<$h$j$*CN$i$;2<$5$$!#!JJ#?tAw?.$5$l$?>l9g$b0J2<$h$j2DG=$G$9!#!K(B $B!!(Bhttp://www.neoxanadu.net/~a_rouge/refuze.html $B:#8e$b!"9-9pDs6!$r4uK>$9$kJ}$N0U;VI=<($NJ}K!(B $B$=$N#1!%:9=P?M$X!"$=$N$^$^JV?.$9$k!#(B $B!!(B---------------------------------------------- SMITH PROVIDE Co,.Ltd 2908 meka st. Ho%&#;,$##&;: $B!!(B From lac@strakt.com Thu Mar 21 17:51:00 2002 From: lac@strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:51:00 +0100 Subject: [Conferences-discuss] conference design Message-ID: <200203211751.g2LHp0QO003380@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Jacek Artymiak sent this to the europython mailing list. I thought some people here might be interested in Meg Hourihan's opinion on how to make and break a conference. http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/javascript/2002/03/19/megnut.html Laura Creighton From guido@python.org Fri Mar 22 01:54:55 2002 From: guido@python.org (Guido van Rossum) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:54:55 -0500 Subject: [Conferences-discuss] conference design In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:51:00 +0100." <200203211751.g2LHp0QO003380@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> References: <200203211751.g2LHp0QO003380@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <200203220154.g2M1sth07575@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> > I thought > some people here might be interested in Meg Hourihan's opinion > on how to make and break a conference. > > http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/javascript/2002/03/19/megnut.html I don't know. Megnut seems to be a blabbermouth. From het blog: | It is by no means an exaggeration when I state that Zoolander is one | of the best movies ever. My DVD arrived -- finally, after a terrible | Amazon mix-up wherein I received a Feynman book instead of the movie | -- yesterday so I watched it last night and was struck again by its | brilliance. It's a comedic cultural critique of the highest | level. (I'm really not kidding. If you don't believe me, go see for | yourself!) And so it goes on for pages. Oh, how interested we are in her terrible mixup. Also, she's got a pedantic link suggesting I'm in need of upgrading my web browser. Bah. --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/) From akuchlin@mems-exchange.org Fri Mar 22 03:14:54 2002 From: akuchlin@mems-exchange.org (akuchlin@mems-exchange.org) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:14:54 -0500 Subject: [Conferences-discuss] conference design In-Reply-To: <200203220154.g2M1sth07575@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>; from guido@python.org on Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 08:54:55PM -0500 References: <200203211751.g2LHp0QO003380@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <200203220154.g2M1sth07575@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> Message-ID: <20020321221454.C2811@mozart.mems-exchange.org> On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 08:54:55PM -0500, Guido van Rossum wrote: >I don't know. Megnut seems to be a blabbermouth. From het blog: .. which doesn't necessarily invalidate her opinions on conferences. (I trust being a blabbermouth doesn't invalidate any of mine. :) ) Anyway, I think she raises valid points, especially for a conference heavy on panel discussions and not paper presentations. However, I don't think they apply much to a Python conference, where it's highly unlikely a panel will feature four people who don't know each other; more likely they'll have been on a first name basis via e-mail for months. The community's too tightly knit for there to be many strangers. --amk (www.amk.ca) Why is a mouse when it spins? -- The Doctor, in "Robot" From guido@python.org Wed Mar 27 03:09:46 2002 From: guido@python.org (Guido van Rossum) Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 22:09:46 -0500 Subject: [Conferences-discuss] YAPC budget Message-ID: <200203270309.g2R39kP20630@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> With permission, I'm forwarding a message from Adam Turoff (Ziggy) of YAS explaining how YAPC is budgeted. --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/) ------- Forwarded Message Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:19:09 -0500 From: Adam Turoff To: David Ascher cc: jeremy@zope.com, Guido van Rossum , psf-board@python.org Subject: Re: [PSF-Board] checks cashed On Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 11:21:09PM -0800, David Ascher wrote: > > Is that how YAPC works? I have two conflicting impressions from > > David's explanation at the last meeting: 1) That's it's most > > pay-as-you-guy; expenses are covered primarily by attendee fees. 2) > > They need some money upfront to cover fixed costs. > > AFAIK, it's 1). It's easy to check. Ziggy? Here's the model: 300 attendees @ $100/person: $30,000 Sponsorships (approx): $20,000 ------- Total: $50,000 >From that, the attendance fees cover the facility and start to cover basic catering. The sponsors fill in with the rest of the conference cost (breakfast, lunches, one dinner) and swag (proceedings, tshirts, lanyards, tote bags). Catering is the most expensive line item, followed by facilities, followed by everything else. Speaker expenses are not covered. The total from sponsors is dependant on a large number of factors, including the health of the tech sector, donations in kind (O'Reilly has had extra totebags drop shipped the past), cost of the venue, etc. The expectation is that the attendance fees will cover use of facilities for 3 days in a university setting; McGill was cheap and quite well suited, but UofMaryland's conference center (run by Marriott) was out of the question (upwards of $100/pp/day facilites cost). As to how the financial engineering is handled, I don't have a definitive answer at the moment. My gut feeling is that most of the attendance fees are collected well in advance; very little on-site registration is performed. So the registrations should suffice for booking the facilities and catering, but obviously some sponsorship money is required as well. Z. _______________________________________________ PSF-Board mailing list PSF-Board@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-board ------- End of Forwarded Message