From cfkarsten at gmail.com  Mon Mar  1 02:47:47 2010
From: cfkarsten at gmail.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 19:47:47 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] DreamPie
In-Reply-To: <dcbbbb411002220552h11317b07xb6aeb9dfb25a5a44@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4ef15ddc1002211445s453cefefk10b4ef87a28da7be@mail.gmail.com>
	<dcbbbb411002220552h11317b07xb6aeb9dfb25a5a44@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <549053141002281747u3094c1a5pd87352120b854213@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 7:52 AM, Michael Urman <murman at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 16:45, Brian Herman <brianherman at gmail.com> wrote:
>> The python shell you have been dreaming about.
>> http://dreampie.sourceforge.net/
>
> I'm pumped about filename completion (raw or unraw strings too; nice
> job)! ?More importantly, reverting to my Ctrl-P for previous entry
> doesn't bring up a printer dialog. Finally! :)
>
> Just a quick bug report, as I'm unwilling to register for launchpad at
> this time (sorry!)

um.. it is at sf.net, not lp...

> After installation, the shortcut didn't work on my Windows machine.
> This appears to be due to a space in my python install path (not
> exactly recommended by the python community

I encourage this behavior - it is how bugs get found, which is how
bugs get fixed.

-- 
Carl K

From murman at gmail.com  Mon Mar  1 14:58:13 2010
From: murman at gmail.com (Michael Urman)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 07:58:13 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] DreamPie
In-Reply-To: <549053141002281747u3094c1a5pd87352120b854213@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4ef15ddc1002211445s453cefefk10b4ef87a28da7be@mail.gmail.com>
	<dcbbbb411002220552h11317b07xb6aeb9dfb25a5a44@mail.gmail.com>
	<549053141002281747u3094c1a5pd87352120b854213@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dcbbbb411003010558p36728e25qbe1779b2b5de01bd@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 19:47, Carl Karsten <cfkarsten at gmail.com> wrote:
> um.. it is at sf.net, not lp...

And the Report a Bug link on the sourceforge page goes to launchpad.
Perhaps lp doesn't let you create a pretty landing page?

>> After installation, the shortcut didn't work on my Windows machine.
>> This appears to be due to a space in my python install path (not
>> exactly recommended by the python community
>
> I encourage this behavior - it is how bugs get found, which is how
> bugs get fixed.

Me too; that's why I do it. I'm a fan of following the local
platform's standards - I imagine python would get a lot of grief if it
installed itself to /bin or /python by default on unix platforms.

But then I go and report the bug unofficially so it gets lost and
nobody benefits.

From christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com  Mon Mar  1 23:19:44 2010
From: christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com (Jonathan Hayward)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 16:19:44 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Django job
Message-ID: <fdc31b651003011419q13631dmd71fed9f92ea3a04@mail.gmail.com>

Jerome Roberts (Robert Half, 312-616-7974) is trying to fill a position who
has production Django experience.

(I found out interviewing that the client is not interested in Python + web
guru + a couple of other strengths as a substitute for production Django
experience. But I think someone posted recently looking for a Django job.)

-- 
? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about usability
? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward ? jonathan.hayward at pobox.com
? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux, Perl, PHP,
Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making software
and websites a joy to use
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From tjurewicz at gmail.com  Mon Mar  1 23:49:50 2010
From: tjurewicz at gmail.com (Trent Jurewicz)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 16:49:50 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Django job
In-Reply-To: <fdc31b651003011419q13631dmd71fed9f92ea3a04@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fdc31b651003011419q13631dmd71fed9f92ea3a04@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d381512c1003011449l3dab935fp23cd877abab307a9@mail.gmail.com>

If you are interested in this Django position, it is for my company
(Manifest Digital) and you can reach out to me directly opposed to going
through Robert Half.

Thanks,
Trent

On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 4:19 PM, Jonathan Hayward <
christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com> wrote:

> Jerome Roberts (Robert Half, 312-616-7974) is trying to fill a position who
> has production Django experience.
>
> (I found out interviewing that the client is not interested in Python + web
> guru + a couple of other strengths as a substitute for production Django
> experience. But I think someone posted recently looking for a Django job.)
>
> --
> ? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about usability
> ? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward ? jonathan.hayward at pobox.com
> ? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux, Perl, PHP,
> Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
> ? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making software
> and websites a joy to use
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From brianherman at gmail.com  Tue Mar  2 03:45:38 2010
From: brianherman at gmail.com (Brian Herman)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 20:45:38 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Ubuntu imports 190 Modules by default
Message-ID: <4ef15ddc1003011845r62f11835gaac0ac6663ef2369@mail.gmail.com>

http://rhodesmill.org/brandon/2010/ubuntu-exception-190-modules/

-- 
_________________________________
Thank You,
Brian Herman
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From christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com  Tue Mar  2 00:40:16 2010
From: christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com (Jonathan Hayward)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 17:40:16 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Why Django?
Message-ID: <fdc31b651003011540l59ec1bf2u4575a8c8b623c2a6@mail.gmail.com>

Q: How many Django developers does it take to change a light bulb?

A: NONE. (There's an application for that that comes standard with any
Django installation.)

-- 
? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about usability
? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward ? jonathan.hayward at pobox.com
? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux, Perl, PHP,
Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making software
and websites a joy to use
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From tal.liron at threecrickets.com  Tue Mar  2 04:13:26 2010
From: tal.liron at threecrickets.com (Tal Liron)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2010 21:13:26 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Why Django?
In-Reply-To: <fdc31b651003011540l59ec1bf2u4575a8c8b623c2a6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fdc31b651003011540l59ec1bf2u4575a8c8b623c2a6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B8C8256.2050608@threecrickets.com>

A: ELEVEN.

The first is the one who realized that the default light bulb app 
doesn't actually support real light bulbs that people use in the world, 
and so writes a snippet that does.

The other 10 are all the commentators on Django Snippets who fix bugs 
created by the first contributor and then by each other.

-T

On 03/01/2010 05:40 PM, Jonathan Hayward wrote:
> Q: How many Django developers does it take to change a light bulb?
>
> A: NONE. (There's an application for that that comes standard with any 
> Django installation.)
>
> -- 
> ? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about 
> usability
> ? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward 
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward> ? 
> jonathan.hayward at pobox.com <mailto:jonathan.hayward at pobox.com>
> ? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux, Perl, 
> PHP, Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
> ? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making 
> software and websites a joy to use
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>    

From carl at personnelware.com  Mon Mar  8 16:51:19 2010
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 09:51:19 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] meeting where?
Message-ID: <549053141003080751h7b847828pff5be5db591dd2f0@mail.gmail.com>

We currently have no place to meet.

If no one comes up with anything today, I'll book Sully's.

I am putting us on ITA's calendar for April.

-- 
Carl K

From g at rre.tt  Mon Mar  8 16:59:17 2010
From: g at rre.tt (Garrett Smith)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 09:59:17 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] meeting where?
In-Reply-To: <549053141003080751h7b847828pff5be5db591dd2f0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <549053141003080751h7b847828pff5be5db591dd2f0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ce2570e21003080759k2e9122e7l485e610102667a24@mail.gmail.com>

Are we still doing the language beatbox rap contest?

I did like Pete's suggestion of a show-and-tell from PyCon. The
multi-language thing's something we can always do.

Garrett

On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:
> We currently have no place to meet.
>
> If no one comes up with anything today, I'll book Sully's.
>
> I am putting us on ITA's calendar for April.
>
> --
> Carl K
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From heflin.rosst at gmail.com  Mon Mar  8 17:01:11 2010
From: heflin.rosst at gmail.com (Ross Heflin)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 10:01:11 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] meeting where?
In-Reply-To: <ce2570e21003080759k2e9122e7l485e610102667a24@mail.gmail.com>
References: <549053141003080751h7b847828pff5be5db591dd2f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080759k2e9122e7l485e610102667a24@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f6ae5ac21003080801h78a05361g71a110a3c7625200@mail.gmail.com>

FWIW I'm +1 on show-and-tell .....and on Sully's too

On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:59 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
> Are we still doing the language beatbox rap contest?
>
> I did like Pete's suggestion of a show-and-tell from PyCon. The
> multi-language thing's something we can always do.
>
> Garrett
>
> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:
>> We currently have no place to meet.
>>
>> If no one comes up with anything today, I'll book Sully's.
>>
>> I am putting us on ITA's calendar for April.
>>
>> --
>> Carl K
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
>From the desk of Ross Heflin
phone number: (847) <23,504,826th decimal place of pi>

From cfkarsten at gmail.com  Mon Mar  8 17:02:27 2010
From: cfkarsten at gmail.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 10:02:27 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] meeting where?
In-Reply-To: <ce2570e21003080759k2e9122e7l485e610102667a24@mail.gmail.com>
References: <549053141003080751h7b847828pff5be5db591dd2f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080759k2e9122e7l485e610102667a24@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <549053141003080802w3070892cq4a25367809b0bc82@mail.gmail.com>

I hear we have 5 or so people signed up to do language things, so we
go with that.

On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:59 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
> Are we still doing the language beatbox rap contest?
>
> I did like Pete's suggestion of a show-and-tell from PyCon. The
> multi-language thing's something we can always do.
>
> Garrett
>
> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:
>> We currently have no place to meet.
>>
>> If no one comes up with anything today, I'll book Sully's.
>>
>> I am putting us on ITA's calendar for April.
>>
>> --
>> Carl K
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
Carl K

From heflin.rosst at gmail.com  Mon Mar  8 17:04:02 2010
From: heflin.rosst at gmail.com (Ross Heflin)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 10:04:02 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] meeting where?
In-Reply-To: <549053141003080802w3070892cq4a25367809b0bc82@mail.gmail.com>
References: <549053141003080751h7b847828pff5be5db591dd2f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080759k2e9122e7l485e610102667a24@mail.gmail.com>
	<549053141003080802w3070892cq4a25367809b0bc82@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f6ae5ac21003080804o15c0646ft47603e13557c3cca@mail.gmail.com>

way it is... should be fun anyway ::grin::

On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Carl Karsten <cfkarsten at gmail.com> wrote:
> I hear we have 5 or so people signed up to do language things, so we
> go with that.
>
> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:59 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
>> Are we still doing the language beatbox rap contest?
>>
>> I did like Pete's suggestion of a show-and-tell from PyCon. The
>> multi-language thing's something we can always do.
>>
>> Garrett
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:
>>> We currently have no place to meet.
>>>
>>> If no one comes up with anything today, I'll book Sully's.
>>>
>>> I am putting us on ITA's calendar for April.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Carl K
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Carl K
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
>From the desk of Ross Heflin
phone number: (847) <23,504,826th decimal place of pi>

From g at rre.tt  Mon Mar  8 17:09:02 2010
From: g at rre.tt (Garrett Smith)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 10:09:02 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] meeting where?
In-Reply-To: <549053141003080802w3070892cq4a25367809b0bc82@mail.gmail.com>
References: <549053141003080751h7b847828pff5be5db591dd2f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080759k2e9122e7l485e610102667a24@mail.gmail.com>
	<549053141003080802w3070892cq4a25367809b0bc82@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ce2570e21003080809n38a276fag17b2c1108556998e@mail.gmail.com>

5 or so might be a good argument for bumping to next month so we can
get a better number. I think last time we have well over ten.

On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Carl Karsten <cfkarsten at gmail.com> wrote:
> I hear we have 5 or so people signed up to do language things, so we
> go with that.
>
> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:59 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
>> Are we still doing the language beatbox rap contest?
>>
>> I did like Pete's suggestion of a show-and-tell from PyCon. The
>> multi-language thing's something we can always do.
>>
>> Garrett
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:
>>> We currently have no place to meet.
>>>
>>> If no one comes up with anything today, I'll book Sully's.
>>>
>>> I am putting us on ITA's calendar for April.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Carl K
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Carl K
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From cwebber at dustycloud.org  Mon Mar  8 17:12:35 2010
From: cwebber at dustycloud.org (Christopher Allan Webber)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2010 10:12:35 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] meeting where?
In-Reply-To: <ce2570e21003080809n38a276fag17b2c1108556998e@mail.gmail.com>
	(Garrett Smith's message of "Mon, 8 Mar 2010 10:09:02 -0600")
References: <549053141003080751h7b847828pff5be5db591dd2f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080759k2e9122e7l485e610102667a24@mail.gmail.com>
	<549053141003080802w3070892cq4a25367809b0bc82@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080809n38a276fag17b2c1108556998e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87lje2kd1o.fsf@dustycloud.org>

I think it's unlikely you're going to build up enthusiasm and more
likely that people are going to lose interest.  I personally already
committed to the language thing, and am not sure if I will be able to
present next month.

Let's do that this month, we already agreed upon it, no sense in making
things complicated.


Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> writes:

> 5 or so might be a good argument for bumping to next month so we can
> get a better number. I think last time we have well over ten.
>
> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Carl Karsten <cfkarsten at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I hear we have 5 or so people signed up to do language things, so we
>> go with that.
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:59 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
>>> Are we still doing the language beatbox rap contest?
>>>
>>> I did like Pete's suggestion of a show-and-tell from PyCon. The
>>> multi-language thing's something we can always do.
>>>
>>> Garrett
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:
>>>> We currently have no place to meet.
>>>>
>>>> If no one comes up with anything today, I'll book Sully's.
>>>>
>>>> I am putting us on ITA's calendar for April.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Carl K
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Carl K
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From g at rre.tt  Mon Mar  8 17:17:00 2010
From: g at rre.tt (Garrett Smith)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 10:17:00 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] meeting where?
In-Reply-To: <87lje2kd1o.fsf@dustycloud.org>
References: <549053141003080751h7b847828pff5be5db591dd2f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080759k2e9122e7l485e610102667a24@mail.gmail.com>
	<549053141003080802w3070892cq4a25367809b0bc82@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080809n38a276fag17b2c1108556998e@mail.gmail.com>
	<87lje2kd1o.fsf@dustycloud.org>
Message-ID: <ce2570e21003080817t77870327m5527e030145cca@mail.gmail.com>

Fine... jeeez ;)

So can we recruit some other language presenters? Could someone who
has access to the current signup list post here so we can see what's
going on?

On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Christopher Allan Webber
<cwebber at dustycloud.org> wrote:
> I think it's unlikely you're going to build up enthusiasm and more
> likely that people are going to lose interest. ?I personally already
> committed to the language thing, and am not sure if I will be able to
> present next month.
>
> Let's do that this month, we already agreed upon it, no sense in making
> things complicated.
>
>
> Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> writes:
>
>> 5 or so might be a good argument for bumping to next month so we can
>> get a better number. I think last time we have well over ten.
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Carl Karsten <cfkarsten at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I hear we have 5 or so people signed up to do language things, so we
>>> go with that.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:59 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
>>>> Are we still doing the language beatbox rap contest?
>>>>
>>>> I did like Pete's suggestion of a show-and-tell from PyCon. The
>>>> multi-language thing's something we can always do.
>>>>
>>>> Garrett
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:
>>>>> We currently have no place to meet.
>>>>>
>>>>> If no one comes up with anything today, I'll book Sully's.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am putting us on ITA's calendar for April.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Carl K
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Carl K
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From shekay at pobox.com  Mon Mar  8 17:18:07 2010
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 10:18:07 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] meeting where?
In-Reply-To: <ce2570e21003080809n38a276fag17b2c1108556998e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <549053141003080751h7b847828pff5be5db591dd2f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080759k2e9122e7l485e610102667a24@mail.gmail.com>
	<549053141003080802w3070892cq4a25367809b0bc82@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080809n38a276fag17b2c1108556998e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a68ced641003080818jf0299bj2376807cbb44e4a1@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, I'd like a better number. We can reach everyone on the list to
warn them that the tentative date was too tentative.

On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
> 5 or so might be a good argument for bumping to next month so we can
> get a better number. I think last time we have well over ten.
>
> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Carl Karsten <cfkarsten at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I hear we have 5 or so people signed up to do language things, so we
>> go with that.
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:59 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
>>> Are we still doing the language beatbox rap contest?
>>>
>>> I did like Pete's suggestion of a show-and-tell from PyCon. The
>>> multi-language thing's something we can always do.
>>>
>>> Garrett
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:
>>>> We currently have no place to meet.
>>>>
>>>> If no one comes up with anything today, I'll book Sully's.
>>>>
>>>> I am putting us on ITA's calendar for April.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Carl K
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Carl K
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
sheila

From g at rre.tt  Mon Mar  8 17:25:57 2010
From: g at rre.tt (Garrett Smith)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 10:25:57 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] meeting where?
In-Reply-To: <a68ced641003080818jf0299bj2376807cbb44e4a1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <549053141003080751h7b847828pff5be5db591dd2f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080759k2e9122e7l485e610102667a24@mail.gmail.com>
	<549053141003080802w3070892cq4a25367809b0bc82@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080809n38a276fag17b2c1108556998e@mail.gmail.com>
	<a68ced641003080818jf0299bj2376807cbb44e4a1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ce2570e21003080825l77b4d924yd24003abb96f6855@mail.gmail.com>

I think in deference to anyone's who's presenting who can't make it
next month, we should keep it as is, no matter how tentative. But it
would be nice to have more than five presentations.

If we're stuck with five, we could allow presenters, at their
discretion, to present more content/go longer. No sense insisting on a
lightning format, IMO.

On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:18 AM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
> Yes, I'd like a better number. We can reach everyone on the list to
> warn them that the tentative date was too tentative.
>
> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
>> 5 or so might be a good argument for bumping to next month so we can
>> get a better number. I think last time we have well over ten.
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Carl Karsten <cfkarsten at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I hear we have 5 or so people signed up to do language things, so we
>>> go with that.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:59 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
>>>> Are we still doing the language beatbox rap contest?
>>>>
>>>> I did like Pete's suggestion of a show-and-tell from PyCon. The
>>>> multi-language thing's something we can always do.
>>>>
>>>> Garrett
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:
>>>>> We currently have no place to meet.
>>>>>
>>>>> If no one comes up with anything today, I'll book Sully's.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am putting us on ITA's calendar for April.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Carl K
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Carl K
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
>
>
> --
> sheila
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From herbieman2000 at gmail.com  Mon Mar  8 17:28:10 2010
From: herbieman2000 at gmail.com (Frank Duncan)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 10:28:10 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] meeting where?
In-Reply-To: <ce2570e21003080825l77b4d924yd24003abb96f6855@mail.gmail.com>
References: <549053141003080751h7b847828pff5be5db591dd2f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080759k2e9122e7l485e610102667a24@mail.gmail.com>
	<549053141003080802w3070892cq4a25367809b0bc82@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080809n38a276fag17b2c1108556998e@mail.gmail.com>
	<a68ced641003080818jf0299bj2376807cbb44e4a1@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080825l77b4d924yd24003abb96f6855@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bf94a2601003080828u2042b3d4l9bca7f12b43a9d60@mail.gmail.com>

I can do Common Lisp, but I see Webber is doing Emacs Lisp already.  I don't
know if you guys are willing to put up with an overabundance of parens, so
maybe not a good idea?  I guess it depends on what Chris's talk is goign to
focus on, but I'd be heavy on meta programming and macros.  If he's planning
the same, then I'll just let him do it :)

Frank

On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:25 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:

> I think in deference to anyone's who's presenting who can't make it
> next month, we should keep it as is, no matter how tentative. But it
> would be nice to have more than five presentations.
>
> If we're stuck with five, we could allow presenters, at their
> discretion, to present more content/go longer. No sense insisting on a
> lightning format, IMO.
>
> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:18 AM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
> > Yes, I'd like a better number. We can reach everyone on the list to
> > warn them that the tentative date was too tentative.
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
> >> 5 or so might be a good argument for bumping to next month so we can
> >> get a better number. I think last time we have well over ten.
> >>
> >> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Carl Karsten <cfkarsten at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>> I hear we have 5 or so people signed up to do language things, so we
> >>> go with that.
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:59 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
> >>>> Are we still doing the language beatbox rap contest?
> >>>>
> >>>> I did like Pete's suggestion of a show-and-tell from PyCon. The
> >>>> multi-language thing's something we can always do.
> >>>>
> >>>> Garrett
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>> We currently have no place to meet.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If no one comes up with anything today, I'll book Sully's.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I am putting us on ITA's calendar for April.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Carl K
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Chicago mailing list
> >>>>> Chicago at python.org
> >>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >>>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Chicago mailing list
> >>>> Chicago at python.org
> >>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Carl K
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Chicago mailing list
> >>> Chicago at python.org
> >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Chicago mailing list
> >> Chicago at python.org
> >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > sheila
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
-------------- next part --------------
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From g at rre.tt  Mon Mar  8 17:40:08 2010
From: g at rre.tt (Garrett Smith)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 10:40:08 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] meeting where?
In-Reply-To: <bf94a2601003080828u2042b3d4l9bca7f12b43a9d60@mail.gmail.com>
References: <549053141003080751h7b847828pff5be5db591dd2f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080759k2e9122e7l485e610102667a24@mail.gmail.com>
	<549053141003080802w3070892cq4a25367809b0bc82@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080809n38a276fag17b2c1108556998e@mail.gmail.com>
	<a68ced641003080818jf0299bj2376807cbb44e4a1@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080825l77b4d924yd24003abb96f6855@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf94a2601003080828u2042b3d4l9bca7f12b43a9d60@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ce2570e21003080840u44035c4boecffd9c3cecbc2f0@mail.gmail.com>

Is there a link to the current signup list?

On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:28 AM, Frank Duncan <herbieman2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I can do Common Lisp, but I see Webber is doing Emacs Lisp already.? I don't
> know if you guys are willing to put up with an overabundance of parens, so
> maybe not a good idea?? I guess it depends on what Chris's talk is goign to
> focus on, but I'd be heavy on meta programming and macros.? If he's planning
> the same, then I'll just let him do it :)
>
> Frank
>
> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:25 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
>>
>> I think in deference to anyone's who's presenting who can't make it
>> next month, we should keep it as is, no matter how tentative. But it
>> would be nice to have more than five presentations.
>>
>> If we're stuck with five, we could allow presenters, at their
>> discretion, to present more content/go longer. No sense insisting on a
>> lightning format, IMO.
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:18 AM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
>> > Yes, I'd like a better number. We can reach everyone on the list to
>> > warn them that the tentative date was too tentative.
>> >
>> > On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
>> >> 5 or so might be a good argument for bumping to next month so we can
>> >> get a better number. I think last time we have well over ten.
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Carl Karsten <cfkarsten at gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>> I hear we have 5 or so people signed up to do language things, so we
>> >>> go with that.
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:59 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
>> >>>> Are we still doing the language beatbox rap contest?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I did like Pete's suggestion of a show-and-tell from PyCon. The
>> >>>> multi-language thing's something we can always do.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Garrett
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com>
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>> We currently have no place to meet.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> If no one comes up with anything today, I'll book Sully's.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I am putting us on ITA's calendar for April.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> --
>> >>>>> Carl K
>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>> Chicago mailing list
>> >>>>> Chicago at python.org
>> >>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>> >>>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> Chicago mailing list
>> >>>> Chicago at python.org
>> >>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Carl K
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Chicago mailing list
>> >>> Chicago at python.org
>> >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>> >>>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Chicago mailing list
>> >> Chicago at python.org
>> >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > sheila
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Chicago mailing list
>> > Chicago at python.org
>> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>

From herbieman2000 at gmail.com  Mon Mar  8 17:41:24 2010
From: herbieman2000 at gmail.com (Frank Duncan)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 10:41:24 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] meeting where?
In-Reply-To: <ce2570e21003080840u44035c4boecffd9c3cecbc2f0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <549053141003080751h7b847828pff5be5db591dd2f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080759k2e9122e7l485e610102667a24@mail.gmail.com>
	<549053141003080802w3070892cq4a25367809b0bc82@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080809n38a276fag17b2c1108556998e@mail.gmail.com>
	<a68ced641003080818jf0299bj2376807cbb44e4a1@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080825l77b4d924yd24003abb96f6855@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf94a2601003080828u2042b3d4l9bca7f12b43a9d60@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080840u44035c4boecffd9c3cecbc2f0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bf94a2601003080841x30e637f8t31451409465bea72@mail.gmail.com>

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tWDOaOr7_kqB-yVgfQPRh7w&single=true&gid=0&output=html

On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:40 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:

> Is there a link to the current signup list?
>
> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:28 AM, Frank Duncan <herbieman2000 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > I can do Common Lisp, but I see Webber is doing Emacs Lisp already.  I
> don't
> > know if you guys are willing to put up with an overabundance of parens,
> so
> > maybe not a good idea?  I guess it depends on what Chris's talk is goign
> to
> > focus on, but I'd be heavy on meta programming and macros.  If he's
> planning
> > the same, then I'll just let him do it :)
> >
> > Frank
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:25 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
> >>
> >> I think in deference to anyone's who's presenting who can't make it
> >> next month, we should keep it as is, no matter how tentative. But it
> >> would be nice to have more than five presentations.
> >>
> >> If we're stuck with five, we could allow presenters, at their
> >> discretion, to present more content/go longer. No sense insisting on a
> >> lightning format, IMO.
> >>
> >> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:18 AM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com>
> wrote:
> >> > Yes, I'd like a better number. We can reach everyone on the list to
> >> > warn them that the tentative date was too tentative.
> >> >
> >> > On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
> >> >> 5 or so might be a good argument for bumping to next month so we can
> >> >> get a better number. I think last time we have well over ten.
> >> >>
> >> >> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Carl Karsten <cfkarsten at gmail.com>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>> I hear we have 5 or so people signed up to do language things, so we
> >> >>> go with that.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:59 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
> >> >>>> Are we still doing the language beatbox rap contest?
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> I did like Pete's suggestion of a show-and-tell from PyCon. The
> >> >>>> multi-language thing's something we can always do.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Garrett
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Carl Karsten <
> carl at personnelware.com>
> >> >>>> wrote:
> >> >>>>> We currently have no place to meet.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> If no one comes up with anything today, I'll book Sully's.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> I am putting us on ITA's calendar for April.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> --
> >> >>>>> Carl K
> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>>>> Chicago mailing list
> >> >>>>> Chicago at python.org
> >> >>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>>> Chicago mailing list
> >> >>>> Chicago at python.org
> >> >>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> --
> >> >>> Carl K
> >> >>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>> Chicago mailing list
> >> >>> Chicago at python.org
> >> >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >> >>>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Chicago mailing list
> >> >> Chicago at python.org
> >> >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > sheila
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Chicago mailing list
> >> > Chicago at python.org
> >> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >> >
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Chicago mailing list
> >> Chicago at python.org
> >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
-------------- next part --------------
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From g at rre.tt  Mon Mar  8 17:55:02 2010
From: g at rre.tt (Garrett Smith)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 10:55:02 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] meeting where?
In-Reply-To: <bf94a2601003080841x30e637f8t31451409465bea72@mail.gmail.com>
References: <549053141003080751h7b847828pff5be5db591dd2f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080759k2e9122e7l485e610102667a24@mail.gmail.com>
	<549053141003080802w3070892cq4a25367809b0bc82@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080809n38a276fag17b2c1108556998e@mail.gmail.com>
	<a68ced641003080818jf0299bj2376807cbb44e4a1@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080825l77b4d924yd24003abb96f6855@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf94a2601003080828u2042b3d4l9bca7f12b43a9d60@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080840u44035c4boecffd9c3cecbc2f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf94a2601003080841x30e637f8t31451409465bea72@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ce2570e21003080855v6fa8d425nc549ad8487b281e7@mail.gmail.com>

Pretty good list! Awesome to see Fortran in there!

It is probably late to get more languages, but let's assume for a
minute that Chipy presentations can be put together really, really
quickly :)

I *personally* would love to see any of these:

- A non-core Python "language" (stretching a bit) like Twisted or
Stackless Python (emphasis obviously on what makes it different from
standard Python)
- Scala
- Closure
- Occam
- Go
- Something really weird/specialized like k
- Something really "old" that is being used for current app dev

On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:41 AM, Frank Duncan <herbieman2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
> http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tWDOaOr7_kqB-yVgfQPRh7w&single=true&gid=0&output=html
>
> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:40 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
>>
>> Is there a link to the current signup list?
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:28 AM, Frank Duncan <herbieman2000 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > I can do Common Lisp, but I see Webber is doing Emacs Lisp already.? I
>> > don't
>> > know if you guys are willing to put up with an overabundance of parens,
>> > so
>> > maybe not a good idea?? I guess it depends on what Chris's talk is goign
>> > to
>> > focus on, but I'd be heavy on meta programming and macros.? If he's
>> > planning
>> > the same, then I'll just let him do it :)
>> >
>> > Frank
>> >
>> > On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:25 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I think in deference to anyone's who's presenting who can't make it
>> >> next month, we should keep it as is, no matter how tentative. But it
>> >> would be nice to have more than five presentations.
>> >>
>> >> If we're stuck with five, we could allow presenters, at their
>> >> discretion, to present more content/go longer. No sense insisting on a
>> >> lightning format, IMO.
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:18 AM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > Yes, I'd like a better number. We can reach everyone on the list to
>> >> > warn them that the tentative date was too tentative.
>> >> >
>> >> > On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
>> >> >> 5 or so might be a good argument for bumping to next month so we can
>> >> >> get a better number. I think last time we have well over ten.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Carl Karsten <cfkarsten at gmail.com>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>> I hear we have 5 or so people signed up to do language things, so
>> >> >>> we
>> >> >>> go with that.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:59 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
>> >> >>>> Are we still doing the language beatbox rap contest?
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> I did like Pete's suggestion of a show-and-tell from PyCon. The
>> >> >>>> multi-language thing's something we can always do.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Garrett
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Carl Karsten
>> >> >>>> <carl at personnelware.com>
>> >> >>>> wrote:
>> >> >>>>> We currently have no place to meet.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> If no one comes up with anything today, I'll book Sully's.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> I am putting us on ITA's calendar for April.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> --
>> >> >>>>> Carl K
>> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >>>>> Chicago mailing list
>> >> >>>>> Chicago at python.org
>> >> >>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >>>> Chicago mailing list
>> >> >>>> Chicago at python.org
>> >> >>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> --
>> >> >>> Carl K
>> >> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >>> Chicago mailing list
>> >> >>> Chicago at python.org
>> >> >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>> >> >>>
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> Chicago mailing list
>> >> >> Chicago at python.org
>> >> >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > sheila
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Chicago mailing list
>> >> > Chicago at python.org
>> >> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>> >> >
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Chicago mailing list
>> >> Chicago at python.org
>> >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Chicago mailing list
>> > Chicago at python.org
>> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>> >
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>

From tal.liron at threecrickets.com  Mon Mar  8 18:00:16 2010
From: tal.liron at threecrickets.com (Tal Liron)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2010 11:00:16 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] meeting where?
In-Reply-To: <ce2570e21003080855v6fa8d425nc549ad8487b281e7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <549053141003080751h7b847828pff5be5db591dd2f0@mail.gmail.com>	<ce2570e21003080759k2e9122e7l485e610102667a24@mail.gmail.com>	<549053141003080802w3070892cq4a25367809b0bc82@mail.gmail.com>	<ce2570e21003080809n38a276fag17b2c1108556998e@mail.gmail.com>	<a68ced641003080818jf0299bj2376807cbb44e4a1@mail.gmail.com>	<ce2570e21003080825l77b4d924yd24003abb96f6855@mail.gmail.com>	<bf94a2601003080828u2042b3d4l9bca7f12b43a9d60@mail.gmail.com>	<ce2570e21003080840u44035c4boecffd9c3cecbc2f0@mail.gmail.com>	<bf94a2601003080841x30e637f8t31451409465bea72@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080855v6fa8d425nc549ad8487b281e7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B952D20.2090606@threecrickets.com>

I could do Clojure... What date/place are we talking?

On 03/08/2010 10:55 AM, Garrett Smith wrote:
> Pretty good list! Awesome to see Fortran in there!
>
> It is probably late to get more languages, but let's assume for a
> minute that Chipy presentations can be put together really, really
> quickly :)
>
> I *personally* would love to see any of these:
>
> - A non-core Python "language" (stretching a bit) like Twisted or
> Stackless Python (emphasis obviously on what makes it different from
> standard Python)
> - Scala
> - Closure
> - Occam
> - Go
> - Something really weird/specialized like k
> - Something really "old" that is being used for current app dev
>
> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:41 AM, Frank Duncan<herbieman2000 at gmail.com>  wrote:
>    
>> http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tWDOaOr7_kqB-yVgfQPRh7w&single=true&gid=0&output=html
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:40 AM, Garrett Smith<g at rre.tt>  wrote:
>>      
>>> Is there a link to the current signup list?
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:28 AM, Frank Duncan<herbieman2000 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>        
>>>> I can do Common Lisp, but I see Webber is doing Emacs Lisp already.  I
>>>> don't
>>>> know if you guys are willing to put up with an overabundance of parens,
>>>> so
>>>> maybe not a good idea?  I guess it depends on what Chris's talk is goign
>>>> to
>>>> focus on, but I'd be heavy on meta programming and macros.  If he's
>>>> planning
>>>> the same, then I'll just let him do it :)
>>>>
>>>> Frank
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:25 AM, Garrett Smith<g at rre.tt>  wrote:
>>>>          
>>>>> I think in deference to anyone's who's presenting who can't make it
>>>>> next month, we should keep it as is, no matter how tentative. But it
>>>>> would be nice to have more than five presentations.
>>>>>
>>>>> If we're stuck with five, we could allow presenters, at their
>>>>> discretion, to present more content/go longer. No sense insisting on a
>>>>> lightning format, IMO.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:18 AM, sheila miguez<shekay at pobox.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>            
>>>>>> Yes, I'd like a better number. We can reach everyone on the list to
>>>>>> warn them that the tentative date was too tentative.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Garrett Smith<g at rre.tt>  wrote:
>>>>>>              
>>>>>>> 5 or so might be a good argument for bumping to next month so we can
>>>>>>> get a better number. I think last time we have well over ten.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Carl Karsten<cfkarsten at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>> I hear we have 5 or so people signed up to do language things, so
>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>> go with that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:59 AM, Garrett Smith<g at rre.tt>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>                  
>>>>>>>>> Are we still doing the language beatbox rap contest?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I did like Pete's suggestion of a show-and-tell from PyCon. The
>>>>>>>>> multi-language thing's something we can always do.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Garrett
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Carl Karsten
>>>>>>>>> <carl at personnelware.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>>> We currently have no place to meet.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If no one comes up with anything today, I'll book Sully's.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I am putting us on ITA's calendar for April.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Carl K
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                      
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>>>>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Carl K
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>>>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>>>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                  
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> sheila
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>>>
>>>>>>              
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>>            
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>          
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>        
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>>      
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>    

From g at rre.tt  Mon Mar  8 18:08:45 2010
From: g at rre.tt (Garrett Smith)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 11:08:45 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] meeting where?
In-Reply-To: <4B952D20.2090606@threecrickets.com>
References: <549053141003080751h7b847828pff5be5db591dd2f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<549053141003080802w3070892cq4a25367809b0bc82@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080809n38a276fag17b2c1108556998e@mail.gmail.com>
	<a68ced641003080818jf0299bj2376807cbb44e4a1@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080825l77b4d924yd24003abb96f6855@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf94a2601003080828u2042b3d4l9bca7f12b43a9d60@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080840u44035c4boecffd9c3cecbc2f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf94a2601003080841x30e637f8t31451409465bea72@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080855v6fa8d425nc549ad8487b281e7@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B952D20.2090606@threecrickets.com>
Message-ID: <ce2570e21003080908o1d927876l8faf2222aaf9c735@mail.gmail.com>

This Thurs, right? Tentative Sully's I believe.

On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 11:00 AM, Tal Liron <tal.liron at threecrickets.com> wrote:
> I could do Clojure... What date/place are we talking?
>
> On 03/08/2010 10:55 AM, Garrett Smith wrote:
>>
>> Pretty good list! Awesome to see Fortran in there!
>>
>> It is probably late to get more languages, but let's assume for a
>> minute that Chipy presentations can be put together really, really
>> quickly :)
>>
>> I *personally* would love to see any of these:
>>
>> - A non-core Python "language" (stretching a bit) like Twisted or
>> Stackless Python (emphasis obviously on what makes it different from
>> standard Python)
>> - Scala
>> - Closure
>> - Occam
>> - Go
>> - Something really weird/specialized like k
>> - Something really "old" that is being used for current app dev
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:41 AM, Frank Duncan<herbieman2000 at gmail.com>
>> ?wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tWDOaOr7_kqB-yVgfQPRh7w&single=true&gid=0&output=html
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:40 AM, Garrett Smith<g at rre.tt> ?wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Is there a link to the current signup list?
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:28 AM, Frank Duncan<herbieman2000 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I can do Common Lisp, but I see Webber is doing Emacs Lisp already. ?I
>>>>> don't
>>>>> know if you guys are willing to put up with an overabundance of parens,
>>>>> so
>>>>> maybe not a good idea? ?I guess it depends on what Chris's talk is
>>>>> goign
>>>>> to
>>>>> focus on, but I'd be heavy on meta programming and macros. ?If he's
>>>>> planning
>>>>> the same, then I'll just let him do it :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Frank
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:25 AM, Garrett Smith<g at rre.tt> ?wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think in deference to anyone's who's presenting who can't make it
>>>>>> next month, we should keep it as is, no matter how tentative. But it
>>>>>> would be nice to have more than five presentations.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If we're stuck with five, we could allow presenters, at their
>>>>>> discretion, to present more content/go longer. No sense insisting on a
>>>>>> lightning format, IMO.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:18 AM, sheila miguez<shekay at pobox.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, I'd like a better number. We can reach everyone on the list to
>>>>>>> warn them that the tentative date was too tentative.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Garrett Smith<g at rre.tt> ?wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 5 or so might be a good argument for bumping to next month so we can
>>>>>>>> get a better number. I think last time we have well over ten.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Carl Karsten<cfkarsten at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I hear we have 5 or so people signed up to do language things, so
>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>> go with that.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:59 AM, Garrett Smith<g at rre.tt> ?wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Are we still doing the language beatbox rap contest?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I did like Pete's suggestion of a show-and-tell from PyCon. The
>>>>>>>>>> multi-language thing's something we can always do.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Garrett
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Carl Karsten
>>>>>>>>>> <carl at personnelware.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> We currently have no place to meet.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If no one comes up with anything today, I'll book Sully's.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I am putting us on ITA's calendar for April.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Carl K
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Carl K
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>>>>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>>>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>>>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> sheila
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From cfkarsten at gmail.com  Mon Mar  8 18:16:03 2010
From: cfkarsten at gmail.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 11:16:03 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] meeting where?
In-Reply-To: <ce2570e21003080908o1d927876l8faf2222aaf9c735@mail.gmail.com>
References: <549053141003080751h7b847828pff5be5db591dd2f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080809n38a276fag17b2c1108556998e@mail.gmail.com>
	<a68ced641003080818jf0299bj2376807cbb44e4a1@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080825l77b4d924yd24003abb96f6855@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf94a2601003080828u2042b3d4l9bca7f12b43a9d60@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080840u44035c4boecffd9c3cecbc2f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf94a2601003080841x30e637f8t31451409465bea72@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080855v6fa8d425nc549ad8487b281e7@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B952D20.2090606@threecrickets.com>
	<ce2570e21003080908o1d927876l8faf2222aaf9c735@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <549053141003080916q70c2fa0ey81a548366312720f@mail.gmail.com>

This Thurs,  Tentative Sully's.

On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 11:08 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
> This Thurs, right? Tentative Sully's I believe.
>
> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 11:00 AM, Tal Liron <tal.liron at threecrickets.com> wrote:
>> I could do Clojure... What date/place are we talking?
>>
>> On 03/08/2010 10:55 AM, Garrett Smith wrote:
>>>
>>> Pretty good list! Awesome to see Fortran in there!
>>>
>>> It is probably late to get more languages, but let's assume for a
>>> minute that Chipy presentations can be put together really, really
>>> quickly :)
>>>
>>> I *personally* would love to see any of these:
>>>
>>> - A non-core Python "language" (stretching a bit) like Twisted or
>>> Stackless Python (emphasis obviously on what makes it different from
>>> standard Python)
>>> - Scala
>>> - Closure
>>> - Occam
>>> - Go
>>> - Something really weird/specialized like k
>>> - Something really "old" that is being used for current app dev
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:41 AM, Frank Duncan<herbieman2000 at gmail.com>
>>> ?wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tWDOaOr7_kqB-yVgfQPRh7w&single=true&gid=0&output=html
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:40 AM, Garrett Smith<g at rre.tt> ?wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there a link to the current signup list?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:28 AM, Frank Duncan<herbieman2000 at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can do Common Lisp, but I see Webber is doing Emacs Lisp already. ?I
>>>>>> don't
>>>>>> know if you guys are willing to put up with an overabundance of parens,
>>>>>> so
>>>>>> maybe not a good idea? ?I guess it depends on what Chris's talk is
>>>>>> goign
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> focus on, but I'd be heavy on meta programming and macros. ?If he's
>>>>>> planning
>>>>>> the same, then I'll just let him do it :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Frank
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:25 AM, Garrett Smith<g at rre.tt> ?wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think in deference to anyone's who's presenting who can't make it
>>>>>>> next month, we should keep it as is, no matter how tentative. But it
>>>>>>> would be nice to have more than five presentations.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If we're stuck with five, we could allow presenters, at their
>>>>>>> discretion, to present more content/go longer. No sense insisting on a
>>>>>>> lightning format, IMO.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:18 AM, sheila miguez<shekay at pobox.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes, I'd like a better number. We can reach everyone on the list to
>>>>>>>> warn them that the tentative date was too tentative.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Garrett Smith<g at rre.tt> ?wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 5 or so might be a good argument for bumping to next month so we can
>>>>>>>>> get a better number. I think last time we have well over ten.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Carl Karsten<cfkarsten at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I hear we have 5 or so people signed up to do language things, so
>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>> go with that.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:59 AM, Garrett Smith<g at rre.tt> ?wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Are we still doing the language beatbox rap contest?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I did like Pete's suggestion of a show-and-tell from PyCon. The
>>>>>>>>>>> multi-language thing's something we can always do.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Garrett
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Carl Karsten
>>>>>>>>>>> <carl at personnelware.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> We currently have no place to meet.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If no one comes up with anything today, I'll book Sully's.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I am putting us on ITA's calendar for April.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Carl K
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Carl K
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>>>>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> sheila
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>>>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>>>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
Carl K

From chad at glendenin.com  Mon Mar  8 18:16:08 2010
From: chad at glendenin.com (Chad Glendenin)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 11:16:08 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] meeting where?
In-Reply-To: <bf94a2601003080841x30e637f8t31451409465bea72@mail.gmail.com>
References: <549053141003080751h7b847828pff5be5db591dd2f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080759k2e9122e7l485e610102667a24@mail.gmail.com>
	<549053141003080802w3070892cq4a25367809b0bc82@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080809n38a276fag17b2c1108556998e@mail.gmail.com>
	<a68ced641003080818jf0299bj2376807cbb44e4a1@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080825l77b4d924yd24003abb96f6855@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf94a2601003080828u2042b3d4l9bca7f12b43a9d60@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080840u44035c4boecffd9c3cecbc2f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf94a2601003080841x30e637f8t31451409465bea72@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <191d03ff1003080916o7c76709blb64e084b4f4a63d3@mail.gmail.com>

Should we be asking people from other user groups to participate? I'd
love to see a comparison between Ruby and Python.

I have a friend who's a Rails developer, and I just shot him an email
to see if he'd be willing to talk about Ruby, but I'm not sure if he's
even back in Chicago this week. Anybody have a friend in the Ruby
Group?

ccg

On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:41 AM, Frank Duncan <herbieman2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
> http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tWDOaOr7_kqB-yVgfQPRh7w&single=true&gid=0&output=html
>
> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:40 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
>>
>> Is there a link to the current signup list?
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:28 AM, Frank Duncan <herbieman2000 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > I can do Common Lisp, but I see Webber is doing Emacs Lisp already.? I
>> > don't
>> > know if you guys are willing to put up with an overabundance of parens,
>> > so
>> > maybe not a good idea?? I guess it depends on what Chris's talk is goign
>> > to
>> > focus on, but I'd be heavy on meta programming and macros.? If he's
>> > planning
>> > the same, then I'll just let him do it :)
>> >
>> > Frank
>> >
>> > On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:25 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I think in deference to anyone's who's presenting who can't make it
>> >> next month, we should keep it as is, no matter how tentative. But it
>> >> would be nice to have more than five presentations.
>> >>
>> >> If we're stuck with five, we could allow presenters, at their
>> >> discretion, to present more content/go longer. No sense insisting on a
>> >> lightning format, IMO.
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:18 AM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > Yes, I'd like a better number. We can reach everyone on the list to
>> >> > warn them that the tentative date was too tentative.
>> >> >
>> >> > On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
>> >> >> 5 or so might be a good argument for bumping to next month so we can
>> >> >> get a better number. I think last time we have well over ten.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Carl Karsten <cfkarsten at gmail.com>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>> I hear we have 5 or so people signed up to do language things, so
>> >> >>> we
>> >> >>> go with that.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:59 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
>> >> >>>> Are we still doing the language beatbox rap contest?
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> I did like Pete's suggestion of a show-and-tell from PyCon. The
>> >> >>>> multi-language thing's something we can always do.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Garrett
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Carl Karsten
>> >> >>>> <carl at personnelware.com>
>> >> >>>> wrote:
>> >> >>>>> We currently have no place to meet.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> If no one comes up with anything today, I'll book Sully's.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> I am putting us on ITA's calendar for April.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> --
>> >> >>>>> Carl K
>> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >>>>> Chicago mailing list
>> >> >>>>> Chicago at python.org
>> >> >>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >>>> Chicago mailing list
>> >> >>>> Chicago at python.org
>> >> >>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> --
>> >> >>> Carl K
>> >> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >>> Chicago mailing list
>> >> >>> Chicago at python.org
>> >> >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>> >> >>>
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> Chicago mailing list
>> >> >> Chicago at python.org
>> >> >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > sheila
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Chicago mailing list
>> >> > Chicago at python.org
>> >> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>> >> >
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Chicago mailing list
>> >> Chicago at python.org
>> >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Chicago mailing list
>> > Chicago at python.org
>> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>> >
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Mon Mar  8 18:18:39 2010
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 11:18:39 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] meeting where?
In-Reply-To: <549053141003080751h7b847828pff5be5db591dd2f0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <549053141003080751h7b847828pff5be5db591dd2f0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0D94D6D0-A916-447E-9ED0-2B40659CFFCF@cs.depaul.edu>

I may be able to host at DePaul, let me check....

Massimo

On Mar 8, 2010, at 9:51 AM, Carl Karsten wrote:

> We currently have no place to meet.
>
> If no one comes up with anything today, I'll book Sully's.
>
> I am putting us on ITA's calendar for April.
>
> -- 
> Carl K
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From bray at sent.com  Mon Mar  8 18:19:38 2010
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 11:19:38 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python Ultimate Language Blowout II
In-Reply-To: <879EF54C-0CC6-42B8-87CF-1A74BC48447F@sent.com>
References: <879EF54C-0CC6-42B8-87CF-1A74BC48447F@sent.com>
Message-ID: <BACDCFDC-0D2F-4D84-8892-FF78915545EE@sent.com>

Here is a reminder of the forms we are using for the showdown we are  
having this Thursday at Sully's.  Yes, this will be the best meeting  
ever... I can tell from the excitement on the ChiPy and other list  
this will me a geek smackdown.

More details to follow soon.

On Feb 25, 2010, at 3:20 PM, Brian Ray wrote:

> Here we go again... This is the "Python Ultimate Language Blowout II"
>
> Each participant gets only 5-10 minutes (depending on entries). The  
> person who makes the best case wins! Each talk needs to be about  
> some programming language other than Python and make at least one  
> comparison to Python in the talk.
>
> Experience the fame and good fortune Brantley Harris, our last time  
> winner, has experienced :)
>
> Sign up for consideration:
>
>  https://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?formkey=dFdET2FPcjdfa3FCLXlWZ2ZRUFJoN3c6MA
>
> See who is in the running:
>
>  http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tWDOaOr7_kqB-yVgfQPRh7w&single=true&gid=0&output=html
>
> Please email me or other ChiPy organizers on or off the list if you  
> want to donate a prize for the winner.  Recall from last time, the  
> winner who gives the best talk-- ot the best language.
>
> Tentative date is March 11th at 7pm, so do not wait!!!
>
> -- Brian Ray
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

Brian Ray




From bray at sent.com  Mon Mar  8 18:22:13 2010
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 11:22:13 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] meeting where?
In-Reply-To: <549053141003080916q70c2fa0ey81a548366312720f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <549053141003080751h7b847828pff5be5db591dd2f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080809n38a276fag17b2c1108556998e@mail.gmail.com>
	<a68ced641003080818jf0299bj2376807cbb44e4a1@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080825l77b4d924yd24003abb96f6855@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf94a2601003080828u2042b3d4l9bca7f12b43a9d60@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080840u44035c4boecffd9c3cecbc2f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf94a2601003080841x30e637f8t31451409465bea72@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080855v6fa8d425nc549ad8487b281e7@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B952D20.2090606@threecrickets.com>
	<ce2570e21003080908o1d927876l8faf2222aaf9c735@mail.gmail.com>
	<549053141003080916q70c2fa0ey81a548366312720f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9B1C8380-1518-43AB-AC53-4636E2E8715A@sent.com>


On Mar 8, 2010, at 11:16 AM, Carl Karsten wrote:

> This Thurs,  Tentative Sully's.



Carl:

I did ask Scott and CC'd him on the plug I just sent out. He said it  
was cool last week, even after I told him it was going to be insane  
and windows might get broken...

Brian Ray




From shekay at pobox.com  Mon Mar  8 18:56:51 2010
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 11:56:51 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] meeting where?
In-Reply-To: <ce2570e21003080855v6fa8d425nc549ad8487b281e7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <549053141003080751h7b847828pff5be5db591dd2f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080759k2e9122e7l485e610102667a24@mail.gmail.com>
	<549053141003080802w3070892cq4a25367809b0bc82@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080809n38a276fag17b2c1108556998e@mail.gmail.com>
	<a68ced641003080818jf0299bj2376807cbb44e4a1@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080825l77b4d924yd24003abb96f6855@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf94a2601003080828u2042b3d4l9bca7f12b43a9d60@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080840u44035c4boecffd9c3cecbc2f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf94a2601003080841x30e637f8t31451409465bea72@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080855v6fa8d425nc549ad8487b281e7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a68ced641003080956w2fd497g2774623872315f54@mail.gmail.com>

I'd like a refresher on Stackless.

I'd also like someone to do prolog since I haven't done it in an
extremely long time.

I think jbettis does ada, and maybe he could be persuaded to talk
about it? It's still used in a lot of places, right?

On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:55 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
> Pretty good list! Awesome to see Fortran in there!
>
> It is probably late to get more languages, but let's assume for a
> minute that Chipy presentations can be put together really, really
> quickly :)
>
> I *personally* would love to see any of these:
>
> - A non-core Python "language" (stretching a bit) like Twisted or
> Stackless Python (emphasis obviously on what makes it different from
> standard Python)
> - Scala
> - Closure
> - Occam
> - Go
> - Something really weird/specialized like k
> - Something really "old" that is being used for current app dev
>
> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:41 AM, Frank Duncan <herbieman2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tWDOaOr7_kqB-yVgfQPRh7w&single=true&gid=0&output=html
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:40 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
>>>
>>> Is there a link to the current signup list?
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:28 AM, Frank Duncan <herbieman2000 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> > I can do Common Lisp, but I see Webber is doing Emacs Lisp already.? I
>>> > don't
>>> > know if you guys are willing to put up with an overabundance of parens,
>>> > so
>>> > maybe not a good idea?? I guess it depends on what Chris's talk is goign
>>> > to
>>> > focus on, but I'd be heavy on meta programming and macros.? If he's
>>> > planning
>>> > the same, then I'll just let him do it :)
>>> >
>>> > Frank
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:25 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> I think in deference to anyone's who's presenting who can't make it
>>> >> next month, we should keep it as is, no matter how tentative. But it
>>> >> would be nice to have more than five presentations.
>>> >>
>>> >> If we're stuck with five, we could allow presenters, at their
>>> >> discretion, to present more content/go longer. No sense insisting on a
>>> >> lightning format, IMO.
>>> >>
>>> >> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:18 AM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com>
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >> > Yes, I'd like a better number. We can reach everyone on the list to
>>> >> > warn them that the tentative date was too tentative.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
>>> >> >> 5 or so might be a good argument for bumping to next month so we can
>>> >> >> get a better number. I think last time we have well over ten.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Carl Karsten <cfkarsten at gmail.com>
>>> >> >> wrote:
>>> >> >>> I hear we have 5 or so people signed up to do language things, so
>>> >> >>> we
>>> >> >>> go with that.
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:59 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
>>> >> >>>> Are we still doing the language beatbox rap contest?
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>> I did like Pete's suggestion of a show-and-tell from PyCon. The
>>> >> >>>> multi-language thing's something we can always do.
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>> Garrett
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Carl Karsten
>>> >> >>>> <carl at personnelware.com>
>>> >> >>>> wrote:
>>> >> >>>>> We currently have no place to meet.
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>> If no one comes up with anything today, I'll book Sully's.
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>> I am putting us on ITA's calendar for April.
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>> --
>>> >> >>>>> Carl K
>>> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>>> >> >>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> >> >>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> >> >>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
>>> >> >>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> >> >>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> >> >>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> --
>>> >> >>> Carl K
>>> >> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >> >>> Chicago mailing list
>>> >> >>> Chicago at python.org
>>> >> >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> >> Chicago mailing list
>>> >> >> Chicago at python.org
>>> >> >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > --
>>> >> > sheila
>>> >> > _______________________________________________
>>> >> > Chicago mailing list
>>> >> > Chicago at python.org
>>> >> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>> >> >
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> Chicago mailing list
>>> >> Chicago at python.org
>>> >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Chicago mailing list
>>> > Chicago at python.org
>>> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>> >
>>> >
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
sheila

From shekay at pobox.com  Mon Mar  8 19:00:22 2010
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 12:00:22 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] meeting where?
In-Reply-To: <191d03ff1003080916o7c76709blb64e084b4f4a63d3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <549053141003080751h7b847828pff5be5db591dd2f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080759k2e9122e7l485e610102667a24@mail.gmail.com>
	<549053141003080802w3070892cq4a25367809b0bc82@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080809n38a276fag17b2c1108556998e@mail.gmail.com>
	<a68ced641003080818jf0299bj2376807cbb44e4a1@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080825l77b4d924yd24003abb96f6855@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf94a2601003080828u2042b3d4l9bca7f12b43a9d60@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080840u44035c4boecffd9c3cecbc2f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf94a2601003080841x30e637f8t31451409465bea72@mail.gmail.com>
	<191d03ff1003080916o7c76709blb64e084b4f4a63d3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a68ced641003081000x5a1a1993h36786c68240e61ff@mail.gmail.com>

if you are awesome, tweet this better than me.

I said,

Tout your language at the Python Ultimate Language Blowout II
http://bit.ly/bng8TO

I am not one of the cool kids, so I didn't bring in any more presenters.

Ps. if we get a ruby speaker, could we have someone talk about the
language rather than the Rails web framework?

On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 11:16 AM, Chad Glendenin <chad at glendenin.com> wrote:
> Should we be asking people from other user groups to participate? I'd
> love to see a comparison between Ruby and Python.
>
> I have a friend who's a Rails developer, and I just shot him an email
> to see if he'd be willing to talk about Ruby, but I'm not sure if he's
> even back in Chicago this week. Anybody have a friend in the Ruby
> Group?
>
> ccg
>
> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:41 AM, Frank Duncan <herbieman2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tWDOaOr7_kqB-yVgfQPRh7w&single=true&gid=0&output=html
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:40 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
>>>
>>> Is there a link to the current signup list?
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:28 AM, Frank Duncan <herbieman2000 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> > I can do Common Lisp, but I see Webber is doing Emacs Lisp already.? I
>>> > don't
>>> > know if you guys are willing to put up with an overabundance of parens,
>>> > so
>>> > maybe not a good idea?? I guess it depends on what Chris's talk is goign
>>> > to
>>> > focus on, but I'd be heavy on meta programming and macros.? If he's
>>> > planning
>>> > the same, then I'll just let him do it :)
>>> >
>>> > Frank
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:25 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> I think in deference to anyone's who's presenting who can't make it
>>> >> next month, we should keep it as is, no matter how tentative. But it
>>> >> would be nice to have more than five presentations.
>>> >>
>>> >> If we're stuck with five, we could allow presenters, at their
>>> >> discretion, to present more content/go longer. No sense insisting on a
>>> >> lightning format, IMO.
>>> >>
>>> >> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:18 AM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com>
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >> > Yes, I'd like a better number. We can reach everyone on the list to
>>> >> > warn them that the tentative date was too tentative.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
>>> >> >> 5 or so might be a good argument for bumping to next month so we can
>>> >> >> get a better number. I think last time we have well over ten.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Carl Karsten <cfkarsten at gmail.com>
>>> >> >> wrote:
>>> >> >>> I hear we have 5 or so people signed up to do language things, so
>>> >> >>> we
>>> >> >>> go with that.
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:59 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
>>> >> >>>> Are we still doing the language beatbox rap contest?
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>> I did like Pete's suggestion of a show-and-tell from PyCon. The
>>> >> >>>> multi-language thing's something we can always do.
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>> Garrett
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Carl Karsten
>>> >> >>>> <carl at personnelware.com>
>>> >> >>>> wrote:
>>> >> >>>>> We currently have no place to meet.
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>> If no one comes up with anything today, I'll book Sully's.
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>> I am putting us on ITA's calendar for April.
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>> --
>>> >> >>>>> Carl K
>>> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>>> >> >>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> >> >>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> >> >>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
>>> >> >>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> >> >>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> >> >>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> --
>>> >> >>> Carl K
>>> >> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >> >>> Chicago mailing list
>>> >> >>> Chicago at python.org
>>> >> >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> >> Chicago mailing list
>>> >> >> Chicago at python.org
>>> >> >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > --
>>> >> > sheila
>>> >> > _______________________________________________
>>> >> > Chicago mailing list
>>> >> > Chicago at python.org
>>> >> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>> >> >
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> Chicago mailing list
>>> >> Chicago at python.org
>>> >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Chicago mailing list
>>> > Chicago at python.org
>>> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>> >
>>> >
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
sheila

From chad at glendenin.com  Mon Mar  8 19:30:53 2010
From: chad at glendenin.com (Chad Glendenin)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 12:30:53 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] meeting where?
In-Reply-To: <a68ced641003081000x5a1a1993h36786c68240e61ff@mail.gmail.com>
References: <549053141003080751h7b847828pff5be5db591dd2f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<549053141003080802w3070892cq4a25367809b0bc82@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080809n38a276fag17b2c1108556998e@mail.gmail.com>
	<a68ced641003080818jf0299bj2376807cbb44e4a1@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080825l77b4d924yd24003abb96f6855@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf94a2601003080828u2042b3d4l9bca7f12b43a9d60@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080840u44035c4boecffd9c3cecbc2f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf94a2601003080841x30e637f8t31451409465bea72@mail.gmail.com>
	<191d03ff1003080916o7c76709blb64e084b4f4a63d3@mail.gmail.com>
	<a68ced641003081000x5a1a1993h36786c68240e61ff@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <191d03ff1003081030g125cc48ck6cb0c70e67d6405c@mail.gmail.com>

> Ps. if we get a ruby speaker, could we have someone talk about the
> language rather than the Rails web framework?

Jim Benton told me that he can talk about Ruby. He's a smart guy; I'm
sure he won't conflate Ruby-the-language with Rails-the-framework,
although, if the audience has any Rails questions, I'm sure he can
answer them. :-)

ccg

From christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com  Mon Mar  8 19:35:48 2010
From: christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com (Jonathan Hayward)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 12:35:48 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] meeting where?
In-Reply-To: <191d03ff1003081030g125cc48ck6cb0c70e67d6405c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <549053141003080751h7b847828pff5be5db591dd2f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080809n38a276fag17b2c1108556998e@mail.gmail.com>
	<a68ced641003080818jf0299bj2376807cbb44e4a1@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080825l77b4d924yd24003abb96f6855@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf94a2601003080828u2042b3d4l9bca7f12b43a9d60@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080840u44035c4boecffd9c3cecbc2f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf94a2601003080841x30e637f8t31451409465bea72@mail.gmail.com>
	<191d03ff1003080916o7c76709blb64e084b4f4a63d3@mail.gmail.com>
	<a68ced641003081000x5a1a1993h36786c68240e61ff@mail.gmail.com>
	<191d03ff1003081030g125cc48ck6cb0c70e67d6405c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fdc31b651003081035h1df0c676m3720b6a3bf97068a@mail.gmail.com>

Maybe someone could present on the Intercal dialect known as Perl?

On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 12:30 PM, Chad Glendenin <chad at glendenin.com> wrote:

> > Ps. if we get a ruby speaker, could we have someone talk about the
> > language rather than the Rails web framework?
>
> Jim Benton told me that he can talk about Ruby. He's a smart guy; I'm
> sure he won't conflate Ruby-the-language with Rails-the-framework,
> although, if the audience has any Rails questions, I'm sure he can
> answer them. :-)
>
> ccg
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about usability
? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward ? jonathan.hayward at pobox.com
? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux, Perl, PHP,
Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making software
and websites a joy to use
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From mtobis at gmail.com  Mon Mar  8 19:41:20 2010
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 12:41:20 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] meeting where?
In-Reply-To: <fdc31b651003081035h1df0c676m3720b6a3bf97068a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <549053141003080751h7b847828pff5be5db591dd2f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<a68ced641003080818jf0299bj2376807cbb44e4a1@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080825l77b4d924yd24003abb96f6855@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf94a2601003080828u2042b3d4l9bca7f12b43a9d60@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080840u44035c4boecffd9c3cecbc2f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf94a2601003080841x30e637f8t31451409465bea72@mail.gmail.com>
	<191d03ff1003080916o7c76709blb64e084b4f4a63d3@mail.gmail.com>
	<a68ced641003081000x5a1a1993h36786c68240e61ff@mail.gmail.com>
	<191d03ff1003081030g125cc48ck6cb0c70e67d6405c@mail.gmail.com>
	<fdc31b651003081035h1df0c676m3720b6a3bf97068a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c3aa55551003081041p4de88d1ct2447fca3f39202b7@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 12:35 PM, Jonathan Hayward
<christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com> wrote:
> Maybe someone could present on the Intercal dialect known as Perl?

+1 qotd

A fine example of why I still follow this list though I can't make the meetings.

mt

From bray at sent.com  Mon Mar  8 19:44:31 2010
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 12:44:31 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] meeting where?
In-Reply-To: <c3aa55551003081041p4de88d1ct2447fca3f39202b7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <549053141003080751h7b847828pff5be5db591dd2f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<a68ced641003080818jf0299bj2376807cbb44e4a1@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080825l77b4d924yd24003abb96f6855@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf94a2601003080828u2042b3d4l9bca7f12b43a9d60@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080840u44035c4boecffd9c3cecbc2f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf94a2601003080841x30e637f8t31451409465bea72@mail.gmail.com>
	<191d03ff1003080916o7c76709blb64e084b4f4a63d3@mail.gmail.com>
	<a68ced641003081000x5a1a1993h36786c68240e61ff@mail.gmail.com>
	<191d03ff1003081030g125cc48ck6cb0c70e67d6405c@mail.gmail.com>
	<fdc31b651003081035h1df0c676m3720b6a3bf97068a@mail.gmail.com>
	<c3aa55551003081041p4de88d1ct2447fca3f39202b7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8372AB50-9ED1-4246-A698-D38A9B557930@sent.com>


On Mar 8, 2010, at 12:41 PM, Michael Tobis wrote:

> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 12:35 PM, Jonathan Hayward
> <christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Maybe someone could present on the Intercal dialect known as Perl?
>
> +1 qotd
>
> A fine example of why I still follow this list though I can't make  
> the meetings.
>

Hey mt, how's the atmosphere doing?  You should fly out for this one!


Brian Ray




From mtobis at gmail.com  Mon Mar  8 20:03:15 2010
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 13:03:15 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] meeting where?
In-Reply-To: <8372AB50-9ED1-4246-A698-D38A9B557930@sent.com>
References: <549053141003080751h7b847828pff5be5db591dd2f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf94a2601003080828u2042b3d4l9bca7f12b43a9d60@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080840u44035c4boecffd9c3cecbc2f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf94a2601003080841x30e637f8t31451409465bea72@mail.gmail.com>
	<191d03ff1003080916o7c76709blb64e084b4f4a63d3@mail.gmail.com>
	<a68ced641003081000x5a1a1993h36786c68240e61ff@mail.gmail.com>
	<191d03ff1003081030g125cc48ck6cb0c70e67d6405c@mail.gmail.com>
	<fdc31b651003081035h1df0c676m3720b6a3bf97068a@mail.gmail.com>
	<c3aa55551003081041p4de88d1ct2447fca3f39202b7@mail.gmail.com>
	<8372AB50-9ED1-4246-A698-D38A9B557930@sent.com>
Message-ID: <c3aa55551003081103t71745e25u8fd16500a850feaf@mail.gmail.com>

> Hey mt, how's the atmosphere doing?

Warming inexorably, slower than some people would have you think, more
surely than others would have you think.

> You should fly out for this one!

Alas, not this time, though I already have a Python vs Matlab lecture
in the can somewhere.

Regards to all.

mt
@mtobis on twitter

From alex.gaynor at gmail.com  Mon Mar  8 20:07:25 2010
From: alex.gaynor at gmail.com (Alex Gaynor)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 13:07:25 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] meeting where?
In-Reply-To: <c3aa55551003081103t71745e25u8fd16500a850feaf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <549053141003080751h7b847828pff5be5db591dd2f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080840u44035c4boecffd9c3cecbc2f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf94a2601003080841x30e637f8t31451409465bea72@mail.gmail.com>
	<191d03ff1003080916o7c76709blb64e084b4f4a63d3@mail.gmail.com>
	<a68ced641003081000x5a1a1993h36786c68240e61ff@mail.gmail.com>
	<191d03ff1003081030g125cc48ck6cb0c70e67d6405c@mail.gmail.com>
	<fdc31b651003081035h1df0c676m3720b6a3bf97068a@mail.gmail.com>
	<c3aa55551003081041p4de88d1ct2447fca3f39202b7@mail.gmail.com>
	<8372AB50-9ED1-4246-A698-D38A9B557930@sent.com>
	<c3aa55551003081103t71745e25u8fd16500a850feaf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ae6584d31003081107w5000e077ma89529e6398307bc@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 1:03 PM, Michael Tobis <mtobis at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hey mt, how's the atmosphere doing?
>
> Warming inexorably, slower than some people would have you think, more
> surely than others would have you think.
>
>> You should fly out for this one!
>
> Alas, not this time, though I already have a Python vs Matlab lecture
> in the can somewhere.
>
> Regards to all.
>
> mt
> @mtobis on twitter
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

It's not quite a language talk, but if it's wanted I could do a talk
on Python implementations (CPython, Unlanden Swallow, PyPy, Jython,
IronPython).

Alex

-- 
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your
right to say it." -- Voltaire
"The people's good is the highest law." -- Cicero
"Code can always be simpler than you think, but never as simple as you
want" -- Me

From bray at sent.com  Mon Mar  8 20:13:02 2010
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 13:13:02 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] meeting where?
In-Reply-To: <ae6584d31003081107w5000e077ma89529e6398307bc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <549053141003080751h7b847828pff5be5db591dd2f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080840u44035c4boecffd9c3cecbc2f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf94a2601003080841x30e637f8t31451409465bea72@mail.gmail.com>
	<191d03ff1003080916o7c76709blb64e084b4f4a63d3@mail.gmail.com>
	<a68ced641003081000x5a1a1993h36786c68240e61ff@mail.gmail.com>
	<191d03ff1003081030g125cc48ck6cb0c70e67d6405c@mail.gmail.com>
	<fdc31b651003081035h1df0c676m3720b6a3bf97068a@mail.gmail.com>
	<c3aa55551003081041p4de88d1ct2447fca3f39202b7@mail.gmail.com>
	<8372AB50-9ED1-4246-A698-D38A9B557930@sent.com>
	<c3aa55551003081103t71745e25u8fd16500a850feaf@mail.gmail.com>
	<ae6584d31003081107w5000e077ma89529e6398307bc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8E21D70D-B1DB-4079-B03B-45042FC1CA33@sent.com>


On Mar 8, 2010, at 1:07 PM, Alex Gaynor wrote:

> It's not quite a language talk, but if it's wanted I could do a talk
> on Python implementations (CPython, Unlanden Swallow, PyPy, Jython,
> IronPython).


This would make a good future topic; however, since this is a  
competition about language features comparative to Python it does not  
qualify.


Brian Ray




From cfkarsten at gmail.com  Mon Mar  8 20:16:58 2010
From: cfkarsten at gmail.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 13:16:58 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] meeting where?
In-Reply-To: <ae6584d31003081107w5000e077ma89529e6398307bc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <549053141003080751h7b847828pff5be5db591dd2f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf94a2601003080841x30e637f8t31451409465bea72@mail.gmail.com>
	<191d03ff1003080916o7c76709blb64e084b4f4a63d3@mail.gmail.com>
	<a68ced641003081000x5a1a1993h36786c68240e61ff@mail.gmail.com>
	<191d03ff1003081030g125cc48ck6cb0c70e67d6405c@mail.gmail.com>
	<fdc31b651003081035h1df0c676m3720b6a3bf97068a@mail.gmail.com>
	<c3aa55551003081041p4de88d1ct2447fca3f39202b7@mail.gmail.com>
	<8372AB50-9ED1-4246-A698-D38A9B557930@sent.com>
	<c3aa55551003081103t71745e25u8fd16500a850feaf@mail.gmail.com>
	<ae6584d31003081107w5000e077ma89529e6398307bc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <549053141003081116k6df8b22aq1334a2aebdad0e81@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 1:07 PM, Alex Gaynor <alex.gaynor at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 1:03 PM, Michael Tobis <mtobis at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hey mt, how's the atmosphere doing?
>>
>> Warming inexorably, slower than some people would have you think, more
>> surely than others would have you think.
>>
>>> You should fly out for this one!
>>
>> Alas, not this time, though I already have a Python vs Matlab lecture
>> in the can somewhere.
>>
>> Regards to all.
>>
>> mt
>> @mtobis on twitter
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
> It's not quite a language talk, but if it's wanted I could do a talk
> on Python implementations (CPython, Unlanden Swallow, PyPy, Jython,
> IronPython).

+1

-- 
Carl K

From g at rre.tt  Mon Mar  8 20:17:55 2010
From: g at rre.tt (Garrett Smith)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 13:17:55 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] meeting where?
In-Reply-To: <ae6584d31003081107w5000e077ma89529e6398307bc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <549053141003080751h7b847828pff5be5db591dd2f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf94a2601003080841x30e637f8t31451409465bea72@mail.gmail.com>
	<191d03ff1003080916o7c76709blb64e084b4f4a63d3@mail.gmail.com>
	<a68ced641003081000x5a1a1993h36786c68240e61ff@mail.gmail.com>
	<191d03ff1003081030g125cc48ck6cb0c70e67d6405c@mail.gmail.com>
	<fdc31b651003081035h1df0c676m3720b6a3bf97068a@mail.gmail.com>
	<c3aa55551003081041p4de88d1ct2447fca3f39202b7@mail.gmail.com>
	<8372AB50-9ED1-4246-A698-D38A9B557930@sent.com>
	<c3aa55551003081103t71745e25u8fd16500a850feaf@mail.gmail.com>
	<ae6584d31003081107w5000e077ma89529e6398307bc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ce2570e21003081117r77e07ff5r990ac099cea6d9aa@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 1:07 PM, Alex Gaynor <alex.gaynor at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> It's not quite a language talk, but if it's wanted I could do a talk
> on Python implementations (CPython, Unlanden Swallow, PyPy, Jython,
> IronPython).

My two cents, but this feels like a great topic on its own!
Intermingling with language smack down might not do it justice.

Garrett

From cfkarsten at gmail.com  Mon Mar  8 20:19:57 2010
From: cfkarsten at gmail.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 13:19:57 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] meeting where?
In-Reply-To: <8E21D70D-B1DB-4079-B03B-45042FC1CA33@sent.com>
References: <549053141003080751h7b847828pff5be5db591dd2f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<191d03ff1003080916o7c76709blb64e084b4f4a63d3@mail.gmail.com>
	<a68ced641003081000x5a1a1993h36786c68240e61ff@mail.gmail.com>
	<191d03ff1003081030g125cc48ck6cb0c70e67d6405c@mail.gmail.com>
	<fdc31b651003081035h1df0c676m3720b6a3bf97068a@mail.gmail.com>
	<c3aa55551003081041p4de88d1ct2447fca3f39202b7@mail.gmail.com>
	<8372AB50-9ED1-4246-A698-D38A9B557930@sent.com>
	<c3aa55551003081103t71745e25u8fd16500a850feaf@mail.gmail.com>
	<ae6584d31003081107w5000e077ma89529e6398307bc@mail.gmail.com>
	<8E21D70D-B1DB-4079-B03B-45042FC1CA33@sent.com>
Message-ID: <549053141003081119l20243da5rb9a1690091aa0709@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 1:13 PM, Brian Ray <bray at sent.com> wrote:
>
> On Mar 8, 2010, at 1:07 PM, Alex Gaynor wrote:
>
>> It's not quite a language talk, but if it's wanted I could do a talk
>> on Python implementations (CPython, Unlanden Swallow, PyPy, Jython,
>> IronPython).
>
>
> This would make a good future topic; however, since this is a competition
> about language features comparative to Python it does not qualify.
>

Fine... jeeez ;)


-- 
Carl K

From cwebber at dustycloud.org  Mon Mar  8 21:24:35 2010
From: cwebber at dustycloud.org (Christopher Allan Webber)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2010 14:24:35 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] meeting where?
In-Reply-To: <bf94a2601003080841x30e637f8t31451409465bea72@mail.gmail.com>
	(Frank Duncan's message of "Mon, 8 Mar 2010 10:41:24 -0600")
References: <549053141003080751h7b847828pff5be5db591dd2f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080759k2e9122e7l485e610102667a24@mail.gmail.com>
	<549053141003080802w3070892cq4a25367809b0bc82@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080809n38a276fag17b2c1108556998e@mail.gmail.com>
	<a68ced641003080818jf0299bj2376807cbb44e4a1@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080825l77b4d924yd24003abb96f6855@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf94a2601003080828u2042b3d4l9bca7f12b43a9d60@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080840u44035c4boecffd9c3cecbc2f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf94a2601003080841x30e637f8t31451409465bea72@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <874okqftoc.fsf@dustycloud.org>

Do Common Lisp also.  They're pretty different, and it would be nice to
evaluate how they are different.

Also, I don't know emacs lisp *that* well :)

Frank Duncan <herbieman2000 at gmail.com> writes:

> http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tWDOaOr7_kqB-yVgfQPRh7w&single=true&gid=0&output=html
>
> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:40 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
>
>     Is there a link to the current signup list?
>    
>     On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:28 AM, Frank Duncan <herbieman2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
>     > I can do Common Lisp, but I see Webber is doing Emacs Lisp already.? I don't
>     > know if you guys are willing to put up with an overabundance of parens, so
>     > maybe not a good idea?? I guess it depends on what Chris's talk is goign to
>     > focus on, but I'd be heavy on meta programming and macros.? If he's planning
>     > the same, then I'll just let him do it :)
>     >
>     > Frank
>     >
>     > On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:25 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
>     >>
>     >> I think in deference to anyone's who's presenting who can't make it
>     >> next month, we should keep it as is, no matter how tentative. But it
>     >> would be nice to have more than five presentations.
>     >>
>     >> If we're stuck with five, we could allow presenters, at their
>     >> discretion, to present more content/go longer. No sense insisting on a
>     >> lightning format, IMO.
>     >>
>     >> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:18 AM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
>     >> > Yes, I'd like a better number. We can reach everyone on the list to
>     >> > warn them that the tentative date was too tentative.
>     >> >
>     >> > On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
>     >> >> 5 or so might be a good argument for bumping to next month so we can
>     >> >> get a better number. I think last time we have well over ten.
>     >> >>
>     >> >> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Carl Karsten <cfkarsten at gmail.com>
>     >> >> wrote:
>     >> >>> I hear we have 5 or so people signed up to do language things, so we
>     >> >>> go with that.
>     >> >>>
>     >> >>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:59 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
>     >> >>>> Are we still doing the language beatbox rap contest?
>     >> >>>>
>     >> >>>> I did like Pete's suggestion of a show-and-tell from PyCon. The
>     >> >>>> multi-language thing's something we can always do.
>     >> >>>>
>     >> >>>> Garrett
>     >> >>>>
>     >> >>>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com>
>     >> >>>> wrote:
>     >> >>>>> We currently have no place to meet.
>     >> >>>>>
>     >> >>>>> If no one comes up with anything today, I'll book Sully's.
>     >> >>>>>
>     >> >>>>> I am putting us on ITA's calendar for April.
>     >> >>>>>
>     >> >>>>> --
>     >> >>>>> Carl K
>     >> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>     >> >>>>> Chicago mailing list
>     >> >>>>> Chicago at python.org
>     >> >>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>     >> >>>>>
>     >> >>>> _______________________________________________
>     >> >>>> Chicago mailing list
>     >> >>>> Chicago at python.org
>     >> >>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>     >> >>>>
>     >> >>>
>     >> >>>
>     >> >>>
>     >> >>> --
>     >> >>> Carl K
>     >> >>> _______________________________________________
>     >> >>> Chicago mailing list
>     >> >>> Chicago at python.org
>     >> >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>     >> >>>
>     >> >> _______________________________________________
>     >> >> Chicago mailing list
>     >> >> Chicago at python.org
>     >> >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>     >> >>
>     >> >
>     >> >
>     >> >
>     >> > --
>     >> > sheila
>     >> > _______________________________________________
>     >> > Chicago mailing list
>     >> > Chicago at python.org
>     >> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>     >> >
>     >> _______________________________________________
>     >> Chicago mailing list
>     >> Chicago at python.org
>     >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>     >
>     >
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > Chicago mailing list
>     > Chicago at python.org
>     > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>     >
>     >
>     _______________________________________________
>     Chicago mailing list
>     Chicago at python.org
>     http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From herbieman2000 at gmail.com  Mon Mar  8 21:47:15 2010
From: herbieman2000 at gmail.com (Frank Duncan)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 14:47:15 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] meeting where?
In-Reply-To: <874okqftoc.fsf@dustycloud.org>
References: <549053141003080751h7b847828pff5be5db591dd2f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080759k2e9122e7l485e610102667a24@mail.gmail.com>
	<549053141003080802w3070892cq4a25367809b0bc82@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080809n38a276fag17b2c1108556998e@mail.gmail.com>
	<a68ced641003080818jf0299bj2376807cbb44e4a1@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080825l77b4d924yd24003abb96f6855@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf94a2601003080828u2042b3d4l9bca7f12b43a9d60@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003080840u44035c4boecffd9c3cecbc2f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf94a2601003080841x30e637f8t31451409465bea72@mail.gmail.com>
	<874okqftoc.fsf@dustycloud.org>
Message-ID: <bf94a2601003081247xa8517e9v1ddba27bc17cfba0@mail.gmail.com>

Cool, done.

On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 2:24 PM, Christopher Allan Webber <
cwebber at dustycloud.org> wrote:

> Do Common Lisp also.  They're pretty different, and it would be nice to
> evaluate how they are different.
>
> Also, I don't know emacs lisp *that* well :)
>
> Frank Duncan <herbieman2000 at gmail.com> writes:
>
> >
> http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tWDOaOr7_kqB-yVgfQPRh7w&single=true&gid=0&output=html
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:40 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
> >
> >     Is there a link to the current signup list?
> >
> >     On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:28 AM, Frank Duncan <
> herbieman2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >     > I can do Common Lisp, but I see Webber is doing Emacs Lisp
> already.  I don't
> >     > know if you guys are willing to put up with an overabundance of
> parens, so
> >     > maybe not a good idea?  I guess it depends on what Chris's talk is
> goign to
> >     > focus on, but I'd be heavy on meta programming and macros.  If he's
> planning
> >     > the same, then I'll just let him do it :)
> >     >
> >     > Frank
> >     >
> >     > On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:25 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
> >     >>
> >     >> I think in deference to anyone's who's presenting who can't make
> it
> >     >> next month, we should keep it as is, no matter how tentative. But
> it
> >     >> would be nice to have more than five presentations.
> >     >>
> >     >> If we're stuck with five, we could allow presenters, at their
> >     >> discretion, to present more content/go longer. No sense insisting
> on a
> >     >> lightning format, IMO.
> >     >>
> >     >> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:18 AM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com>
> wrote:
> >     >> > Yes, I'd like a better number. We can reach everyone on the list
> to
> >     >> > warn them that the tentative date was too tentative.
> >     >> >
> >     >> > On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt>
> wrote:
> >     >> >> 5 or so might be a good argument for bumping to next month so
> we can
> >     >> >> get a better number. I think last time we have well over ten.
> >     >> >>
> >     >> >> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Carl Karsten <
> cfkarsten at gmail.com>
> >     >> >> wrote:
> >     >> >>> I hear we have 5 or so people signed up to do language things,
> so we
> >     >> >>> go with that.
> >     >> >>>
> >     >> >>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:59 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt>
> wrote:
> >     >> >>>> Are we still doing the language beatbox rap contest?
> >     >> >>>>
> >     >> >>>> I did like Pete's suggestion of a show-and-tell from PyCon.
> The
> >     >> >>>> multi-language thing's something we can always do.
> >     >> >>>>
> >     >> >>>> Garrett
> >     >> >>>>
> >     >> >>>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Carl Karsten <
> carl at personnelware.com>
> >     >> >>>> wrote:
> >     >> >>>>> We currently have no place to meet.
> >     >> >>>>>
> >     >> >>>>> If no one comes up with anything today, I'll book Sully's.
> >     >> >>>>>
> >     >> >>>>> I am putting us on ITA's calendar for April.
> >     >> >>>>>
> >     >> >>>>> --
> >     >> >>>>> Carl K
> >     >> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >     >> >>>>> Chicago mailing list
> >     >> >>>>> Chicago at python.org
> >     >> >>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >     >> >>>>>
> >     >> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >     >> >>>> Chicago mailing list
> >     >> >>>> Chicago at python.org
> >     >> >>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >     >> >>>>
> >     >> >>>
> >     >> >>>
> >     >> >>>
> >     >> >>> --
> >     >> >>> Carl K
> >     >> >>> _______________________________________________
> >     >> >>> Chicago mailing list
> >     >> >>> Chicago at python.org
> >     >> >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >     >> >>>
> >     >> >> _______________________________________________
> >     >> >> Chicago mailing list
> >     >> >> Chicago at python.org
> >     >> >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >     >> >>
> >     >> >
> >     >> >
> >     >> >
> >     >> > --
> >     >> > sheila
> >     >> > _______________________________________________
> >     >> > Chicago mailing list
> >     >> > Chicago at python.org
> >     >> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >     >> >
> >     >> _______________________________________________
> >     >> Chicago mailing list
> >     >> Chicago at python.org
> >     >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >     >
> >     >
> >     > _______________________________________________
> >     > Chicago mailing list
> >     > Chicago at python.org
> >     > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >     >
> >     >
> >     _______________________________________________
> >     Chicago mailing list
> >     Chicago at python.org
> >     http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From bray at sent.com  Tue Mar  9 17:00:35 2010
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 10:00:35 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chicago Python User Group Presents: Ultimate Language
	Blowout II, this Thursday March 11th
Message-ID: <BB369B2A-F378-4534-A4BE-7584CAC830FE@sent.com>


"One of the design rules for Python has always been to beg, borrow or  
steal whatever features I liked
from existing languages..."    Guido van Rossum

Chicago Python User Group
=========================

Special Event: "Ultimate Language Blowout II"

Last time we held this event we blew the doors off Roosevelt  
University.  This month we will hold the competition in a private  
meeting room (with its own wet bar, plenty of room, and great AV) at  
Sully's House on the North side.  This meeting will surely be great  
entertainment for everyone--Everyone is welcome!  The end result is we  
will crown a winner for the best presentation. For those watching, you  
will learn some Python features from a comparative  approach.

This will be the best competition ever hosted by ChiPy.

   ** Feel Free to Redistribute this information to any language  
oriented group in Chicago land area **

The Competition
---------------
Each participant gets only 5-10 minutes (depending on entries). The  
person who makes the best case wins! They can do whatever they want--  
just as long as each presentation is about some programming language  
other than Python and make at least one comparison to Python during  
the talk.

Sign up:

https://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?formkey=dFdET2FPcjdfa3FCLXlWZ2ZRUFJoN3c6MA
See who is in the running:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tWDOaOr7_kqB-yVgfQPRh7w&single=true&gid=0&output=html


When
----

Thursday March 11, 2010 at 7PM  till a winner is announced

Where
-----
Sully's House Tap Room & Grill, 1501 N. Dayton St. Chicago, Illinois  
60622 At the corner of Blackhawk and Dayton http://www.sullyshouse.com/
(2) Blocks from the North & Clybourn Red Line stop. Free street  
parking available.
The meeting is Sully's House Tap Room & Grill. All ages are welcome to  
this Free Private Event. For those of age, Sully's House offer 20  
Beers on tap, and 35 Bottles - all craft and microbrewery,  
specializing in Belgium, Irish and German selections. Enjoy great Bar  
Food & Pizza from our Italian Oven and Daily discounted menu specials.  
The host has given us a dedicated bartender. We will meet in the  
private party room on the second floor--well equipped with top of the  
line video equipment.
**This event is Free as in Speech, but the beer is not free**   Tip  
your bartender.

About ChiPy
-----------

ChiPy is a group of Chicago Python Programmers.  Participants range
from absolute beginners to seasoned veterans.  In short, *everyone* is
welcome (including you)!  Every second thursday of the month ChiPy
members gather to give talks on a wide variety of topics related to
Python and related technology.  Our community benefits from a variety
of participants, so we would love it if you would make yourself a
participant!

ChiPy website: http://chipy.org
ChiPy Mailing List: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
ChiPy Announcement *ONLY* Mailing List:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chipy-announce
Python website: http://python.org


From christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com  Tue Mar  9 19:29:32 2010
From: christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com (Jonathan Hayward)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 12:29:32 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Jobhunting and a past assignment
Message-ID: <fdc31b651003091029g332c0416x6cb7cb6c761bc28f@mail.gmail.com>

I'm jobhunting now, and instead of just listing skills, I wanted to talk
about one of my favorite assignments from a recent job. (I thought that
might be a more colorful way to connect up.)

My first real assignment was to get a revenue assurance auditor off major
overtime.

I was introduced to him and I winced when I saw how he was working. It's not
that he was solving a problem badly, so much that the tools he was working
with *forced* him to solve the problem badly. I respected him for what he
was doing and considered him a team player, but he had tools that were not
intended to support anything like what he was doing, and he was working
overtime doing the equivalent of cutting a steak with a screwdriver.

In broad strokes, I was trying to solve a hard user interface problem, and
trying to make a tool that would do easily and gracefully what he was doing,
and I did this via a CGI script written in Python. We worked iteratively and
cooperatively, and some of the things I did were:

   - Take information that was stored in separate databases and accessed by
   very different tools and bring it to a single point of access, so as much as
   possible of the gruntwork connecting dots was offloaded from my co-worker to
   the script.
   - Take figures that were originally displayed on their own webpages and
   display them in a compact grid.
   - Make the customer's telephone number a clickable link that would load
   elsewhere in the page basic name and contact information for the customer
   (again a matter of offloading busy gruntwork to my software so that my
   coworker could have all basic information easily and in one place, instead
   of scrounging multiple sources).
   - Sort so that the accounts most likely to be interesting appeared at the
   top.
   - Replaced the numbers, which required reading, with a grayscale setup so
   that a basic signal would jump out at a glance. (I did re-add the numbers as
   a hover.)

Overall, my goal was to set things up so that the information that
interested him would jump out at a glance and he could drill down, and less
interesting things would not be a distraction. (On top of trying to
eliminate busy work steps that he had to do because different tools would
not talk to each other or gather basic information in one place.) I tried to
make iterative improvements like Tufte outlines in Envisioning
Information<http://www.powells.com/partner/24934/biblio/9780961392116>.
My goal was to get him from cutting a steak with a screwdriver to cutting
butter with a hot knife. Partway through the iterations, I told him, "The
only reason I ever want you doing things the way you were doing them is
because you want to." He replied immediately, "I don't want to!" And I got
him off overtime relatively quickly, and before we were finished refining
it, he was getting better results than before, and he didn't need his whole
workday to do this: I freed him to take on other things.

What interested me so much about this was that the challenge was not so much
about what I could get the computer to do, as what I could enable a user to
do. The specific UI problem is different from many others, but I'm
interested in the human side of computing (IA/UI/UE), and this kind of
challenge is what I've enjoyed most. My past couple of positions I've worked
on both the front- and back-end and I enjoy both, and I definitely like a
good back-end language better than the good language and terrible language
rolled into one known as JavaScript, but I like the things done with Ajax
(or, more humbly, with Web 1.0 frontend stuff) more than I dislike
JavaScript's sore spots.

Do you know of any jobs, including Python or not, that would benefit from
this kind of strength?

-- 
? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about usability
? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward ? jonathan.hayward at pobox.com
? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux, Perl, PHP,
Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making software
and websites a joy to use
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From skip at pobox.com  Tue Mar  9 20:37:58 2010
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 13:37:58 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] The Portland group guards the door to their meetings...
Message-ID: <19350.41878.500028.211034@montanaro.dyndns.org>

Pretty serious Python group out there in Portland.  Looks like they've begun
stationing bouncers at the front door:

    http://wiki.python.org/moin/PortlandPythonUserGroup

Skip

From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com  Tue Mar  9 21:32:58 2010
From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 14:32:58 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] The Portland group guards the door to their
	meetings...
In-Reply-To: <19350.41878.500028.211034@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <19350.41878.500028.211034@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <b571660a1003091232h5331d64cm9c3b041594a0339c@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 1:37 PM,  <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
> Pretty serious Python group out there in Portland. ?Looks like they've begun
> stationing bouncers at the front door:
>
> ? ?http://wiki.python.org/moin/PortlandPythonUserGroup


there are a lot of Ruby programmers in Portland.  I can see why they
might need protection.

>
> Skip
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From orblivion at gmail.com  Tue Mar  9 21:35:11 2010
From: orblivion at gmail.com (Dan Krol)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 14:35:11 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] The Portland group guards the door to their
	meetings...
In-Reply-To: <b571660a1003091232h5331d64cm9c3b041594a0339c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <19350.41878.500028.211034@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<b571660a1003091232h5331d64cm9c3b041594a0339c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <94e10adf1003091235l7cf0b8bfx2b4598f9098312c4@mail.gmail.com>

Didn't we have ninjas once?

On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 2:32 PM, Kumar McMillan <kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 1:37 PM, ?<skip at pobox.com> wrote:
>> Pretty serious Python group out there in Portland. ?Looks like they've begun
>> stationing bouncers at the front door:
>>
>> ? ?http://wiki.python.org/moin/PortlandPythonUserGroup
>
>
> there are a lot of Ruby programmers in Portland. ?I can see why they
> might need protection.
>
>>
>> Skip
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com  Tue Mar  9 21:36:20 2010
From: christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com (Jonathan Hayward)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 14:36:20 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] The Portland group guards the door to their
	meetings...
In-Reply-To: <b571660a1003091232h5331d64cm9c3b041594a0339c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <19350.41878.500028.211034@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<b571660a1003091232h5331d64cm9c3b041594a0339c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fdc31b651003091236n628ba709pd06857474ac5200b@mail.gmail.com>

Why not just override __get__() and __set__()?

On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 2:32 PM, Kumar McMillan <kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 1:37 PM,  <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
> > Pretty serious Python group out there in Portland.  Looks like they've
> begun
> > stationing bouncers at the front door:
> >
> >    http://wiki.python.org/moin/PortlandPythonUserGroup
>
>
> there are a lot of Ruby programmers in Portland.  I can see why they
> might need protection.
>
> >
> > Skip
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about usability
? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward ? jonathan.hayward at pobox.com
? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux, Perl, PHP,
Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making software
and websites a joy to use
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From kirby.urner at gmail.com  Wed Mar 10 00:22:40 2010
From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 15:22:40 -0800
Subject: [Chicago] The Portland group guards the door to their
	meetings...
In-Reply-To: <19350.41878.500028.211034@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <19350.41878.500028.211034@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <f604188c1003091522p55bc7b82g1da077426f07e2c8@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 11:37 AM,  <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
> Pretty serious Python group out there in Portland. ?Looks like they've begun
> stationing bouncers at the front door:
>
> ? ?http://wiki.python.org/moin/PortlandPythonUserGroup
>
> Skip
> _______________________________________________

Hi Skip, hi Chicago --

Writing from Portland here.

We had an idyllic meeting space on the 2nd floor of a bank building
called Cubespace.  All the open source groups met there, or a lot
of 'em, including Ruby, Postgres and others.

http://coffeeshopsnet.blogspot.com/2009/05/local-politics.html

However, when Cubespace was forced to close, because US Bank
didn't see this as a top floor investment banking division (which
it wasn't), just a landlord relationship (which it was), the various
user groups had to disperse and find other digs.  We've never
recovered the loss of cohesion.  Admirers of Javascript (one of
the groups) now meets in a whole different building, to the lasting
detriment of Portland's developer community.

Python's user group now meets at the top of a business tower in
downtown Portland that technically closes around 5 pm.  Not only
do we need the guard to let us in at 6:30 pm, but there's a key
in the elevator, without which it won't go to the 16th floor or whatever
it is.  The guard escorts each party to the elevator and presses the
button.

So yeah, it feels more like a fortress, not like an open / academic
environment.  WebTrends is generous in offering a space, and the
facilities are quite acceptable.  However, in terms of having the
general public feeling welcome, that's not happening -- maybe
wasn't either at Cubespace unless you knew what web sites to
follow.

I think a paradigm Python user group should offer an intro
to generic Python, maybe some other classes, free to the general
population, with rotating presenters.  Perhaps once a month?
This gives Pythonistas an opportunity to fine tune their teaching
skills, and it helps give visibility to the Python language.  The
general public feels more welcome, senses the friendliness of
this community.

In practice, I don't know any user group doing this.  The Portland
group certainly isn't, and, as you mention, we station a guard at
the door.

Kirby Urner
PSF '09


> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From g at rre.tt  Wed Mar 10 01:52:22 2010
From: g at rre.tt (Garrett Smith)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 18:52:22 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] The Portland group guards the door to their
	meetings...
In-Reply-To: <f604188c1003091522p55bc7b82g1da077426f07e2c8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <19350.41878.500028.211034@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<f604188c1003091522p55bc7b82g1da077426f07e2c8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ce2570e21003091652n4d149f01me8982394cca73447@mail.gmail.com>

I think having bouncers would be *ridiculously* cool. Carl?

On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 5:22 PM, kirby urner <kirby.urner at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 11:37 AM, ?<skip at pobox.com> wrote:
>> Pretty serious Python group out there in Portland. ?Looks like they've begun
>> stationing bouncers at the front door:
>>
>> ? ?http://wiki.python.org/moin/PortlandPythonUserGroup
>>
>> Skip
>> _______________________________________________
>
> Hi Skip, hi Chicago --
>
> Writing from Portland here.
>
> We had an idyllic meeting space on the 2nd floor of a bank building
> called Cubespace. ?All the open source groups met there, or a lot
> of 'em, including Ruby, Postgres and others.
>
> http://coffeeshopsnet.blogspot.com/2009/05/local-politics.html
>
> However, when Cubespace was forced to close, because US Bank
> didn't see this as a top floor investment banking division (which
> it wasn't), just a landlord relationship (which it was), the various
> user groups had to disperse and find other digs. ?We've never
> recovered the loss of cohesion. ?Admirers of Javascript (one of
> the groups) now meets in a whole different building, to the lasting
> detriment of Portland's developer community.
>
> Python's user group now meets at the top of a business tower in
> downtown Portland that technically closes around 5 pm. ?Not only
> do we need the guard to let us in at 6:30 pm, but there's a key
> in the elevator, without which it won't go to the 16th floor or whatever
> it is. ?The guard escorts each party to the elevator and presses the
> button.
>
> So yeah, it feels more like a fortress, not like an open / academic
> environment. ?WebTrends is generous in offering a space, and the
> facilities are quite acceptable. ?However, in terms of having the
> general public feeling welcome, that's not happening -- maybe
> wasn't either at Cubespace unless you knew what web sites to
> follow.
>
> I think a paradigm Python user group should offer an intro
> to generic Python, maybe some other classes, free to the general
> population, with rotating presenters. ?Perhaps once a month?
> This gives Pythonistas an opportunity to fine tune their teaching
> skills, and it helps give visibility to the Python language. ?The
> general public feels more welcome, senses the friendliness of
> this community.
>
> In practice, I don't know any user group doing this. ?The Portland
> group certainly isn't, and, as you mention, we station a guard at
> the door.
>
> Kirby Urner
> PSF '09
>
>
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From dgriff1 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 10 01:58:22 2010
From: dgriff1 at gmail.com (Daniel Griffin)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 18:58:22 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] wanted: creative person
Message-ID: <3db160681003091658v79a79886s2b6300272d681cef@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I am looking for a creative person to help with some
logo/branding/colors/maybe light web design. My artistic skills end at stick
figured in MS Paint. Does anyone qualify or know anyone you would recommend?
 If not I am going to do crowdspring. I am expecting to pay whoever I find
for their services.

Thanks,
Dan
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From skip at pobox.com  Thu Mar 11 15:48:36 2010
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 08:48:36 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] The Portland group guards the door to their
 meetings...
In-Reply-To: <ce2570e21003091652n4d149f01me8982394cca73447@mail.gmail.com>
References: <19350.41878.500028.211034@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<f604188c1003091522p55bc7b82g1da077426f07e2c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003091652n4d149f01me8982394cca73447@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <19353.708.162771.365199@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Garrett> I think having bouncers would be *ridiculously* cool. Carl?

By making it harder to get into you'd probably raise the cachet and suddenly
everyone would want to get in, as if if was the latest trendy night club.
You'd probably have to start serving chocolate martinis.  Then you'd get
written up on the social pages of the Trib after Kanye showed up one
night...

Skip

From kshipras at packtpub.com  Thu Mar 11 13:00:58 2010
From: kshipras at packtpub.com (Kshipra Singh)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 17:30:58 +0530
Subject: [Chicago] Opportunity to author Python cookbooks- Packt Publishing
Message-ID: <40649790ADA443FC9DE6E3DD4543ACA3@sonyPC>

Hi Python Enthusiasts, 

I am writing to you for Packt Publishing, the publishers of computer related books.

We are planning to extend our catalogue of cookbooks and are currently inviting "Python" fanatics interested in writing a cookbook. So, if you love "Python" and are interested in writing a cookbook, please contact us with your book ideas at author at packtpub.com. Even if you do not have a book idea and are simply interested in authoring a cookbook, we are still keen to hear from you. 

More details about the opportunity are available at: http://authors.packtpub.com/content/python-fanatics-invited-write-packt

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Author Relationship Manager
Packt Publishing
www.PacktPub.com
 
Skype: kshiprasingh15
Twitter: http://twitter.com/kshipras
 
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From josh_johnson at unc.edu  Thu Mar 11 16:51:31 2010
From: josh_johnson at unc.edu (Josh Johnson)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 10:51:31 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] The Portland group guards the door to their
	meetings...
In-Reply-To: <19353.708.162771.365199@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <19350.41878.500028.211034@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<f604188c1003091522p55bc7b82g1da077426f07e2c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003091652n4d149f01me8982394cca73447@mail.gmail.com>
	<19353.708.162771.365199@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <CF971495-6E83-4BA6-BCF4-BA5CD2369405@unc.edu>

I think chocolate martini's would be ok even if there *wasn't* a  
bouncer :P

JJ

On Mar 11, 2010, at 9:48 AM, skip at pobox.com wrote:

>
>    Garrett> I think having bouncers would be *ridiculously* cool.  
> Carl?
>
> By making it harder to get into you'd probably raise the cachet and  
> suddenly
> everyone would want to get in, as if if was the latest trendy night  
> club.
> You'd probably have to start serving chocolate martinis.  Then you'd  
> get
> written up on the social pages of the Trib after Kanye showed up one
> night...
>
> Skip
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>


From jason at hostedlabs.com  Thu Mar 11 17:01:19 2010
From: jason at hostedlabs.com (Jason Rexilius)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 10:01:19 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] The Portland group guards the door to their
	meetings...
In-Reply-To: <CF971495-6E83-4BA6-BCF4-BA5CD2369405@unc.edu>
References: <19350.41878.500028.211034@montanaro.dyndns.org>	<f604188c1003091522p55bc7b82g1da077426f07e2c8@mail.gmail.com>	<ce2570e21003091652n4d149f01me8982394cca73447@mail.gmail.com>	<19353.708.162771.365199@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<CF971495-6E83-4BA6-BCF4-BA5CD2369405@unc.edu>
Message-ID: <4B9913CF.8020406@hostedlabs.com>

Hmm.. I hope we're not proposing bouncers with chocolate martinis..  add 
some black leather and you might draw a different crowd than intended..



Josh Johnson wrote:
> I think chocolate martini's would be ok even if there *wasn't* a bouncer :P
> 
> JJ
> 
> On Mar 11, 2010, at 9:48 AM, skip at pobox.com wrote:
> 
>>
>>    Garrett> I think having bouncers would be *ridiculously* cool. Carl?
>>
>> By making it harder to get into you'd probably raise the cachet and 
>> suddenly
>> everyone would want to get in, as if if was the latest trendy night club.
>> You'd probably have to start serving chocolate martinis.  Then you'd get
>> written up on the social pages of the Trib after Kanye showed up one
>> night...
>>
>> Skip
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From bray at sent.com  Thu Mar 11 17:10:32 2010
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 10:10:32 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] The Portland group guards the door to their
	meetings...
In-Reply-To: <19353.708.162771.365199@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <19350.41878.500028.211034@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<f604188c1003091522p55bc7b82g1da077426f07e2c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003091652n4d149f01me8982394cca73447@mail.gmail.com>
	<19353.708.162771.365199@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <EC331885-0429-4B78-B208-429476837D1B@sent.com>


On Mar 11, 2010, at 8:48 AM, skip at pobox.com wrote:

>
>    Garrett> I think having bouncers would be *ridiculously* cool.  
> Carl?
>
> By making it harder to get into you'd probably raise the cachet and  
> suddenly
> everyone would want to get in, as if if was the latest trendy night  
> club.
> You'd probably have to start serving chocolate martinis.  Then you'd  
> get
> written up on the social pages of the Trib after Kanye showed up one
> night...
>


We might be able to pull that off, Sullys?

On a side note the line up tonight is shaping up nicely:

    http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tWDOaOr7_kqB-yVgfQPRh7w&single=true&gid=0&output=html

This is going to be insane.  I think we invited Kanye before but he  
would not stop interrupting ;)

Brian Ray




From christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com  Thu Mar 11 17:29:59 2010
From: christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com (Jonathan Hayward)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 10:29:59 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] The Portland group guards the door to their
	meetings...
In-Reply-To: <EC331885-0429-4B78-B208-429476837D1B@sent.com>
References: <19350.41878.500028.211034@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<f604188c1003091522p55bc7b82g1da077426f07e2c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003091652n4d149f01me8982394cca73447@mail.gmail.com>
	<19353.708.162771.365199@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<EC331885-0429-4B78-B208-429476837D1B@sent.com>
Message-ID: <fdc31b651003110829j7bd0f0b5s97edd4138b721d2f@mail.gmail.com>

If you look hard enough, you might be able to find people who are competent
both as bouncers and bartenders... set up a liquor bar at the door, have
people offered a drink, and ask questions like "Name a letter that isn't a
valid option to the ls command."

On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 10:10 AM, Brian Ray <bray at sent.com> wrote:

>
> On Mar 11, 2010, at 8:48 AM, skip at pobox.com wrote:
>
>
>>   Garrett> I think having bouncers would be *ridiculously* cool. Carl?
>>
>> By making it harder to get into you'd probably raise the cachet and
>> suddenly
>> everyone would want to get in, as if if was the latest trendy night club.
>> You'd probably have to start serving chocolate martinis.  Then you'd get
>> written up on the social pages of the Trib after Kanye showed up one
>> night...
>>
>>
>
> We might be able to pull that off, Sullys?
>
> On a side note the line up tonight is shaping up nicely:
>
>
> http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tWDOaOr7_kqB-yVgfQPRh7w&single=true&gid=0&output=html
>
> This is going to be insane.  I think we invited Kanye before but he would
> not stop interrupting ;)
>
> Brian Ray
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about usability
? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward ? jonathan.hayward at pobox.com
? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux, Perl, PHP,
Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making software
and websites a joy to use
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From orblivion at gmail.com  Thu Mar 11 18:31:19 2010
From: orblivion at gmail.com (Dan Krol)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 11:31:19 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] The Portland group guards the door to their
	meetings...
In-Reply-To: <EC331885-0429-4B78-B208-429476837D1B@sent.com>
References: <19350.41878.500028.211034@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<f604188c1003091522p55bc7b82g1da077426f07e2c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003091652n4d149f01me8982394cca73447@mail.gmail.com>
	<19353.708.162771.365199@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<EC331885-0429-4B78-B208-429476837D1B@sent.com>
Message-ID: <94e10adf1003110931w3ba235f1wcd3b81a5aafa5d02@mail.gmail.com>

Talked to Tristan, who was signed up for Haskell. He never heard back about
it so he didn't realize that this went past speculative phases, so he's not
ready to talk tonight.

Maybe we should doublecheck that everybody's ready?

On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 10:10 AM, Brian Ray <bray at sent.com> wrote:

>
> On Mar 11, 2010, at 8:48 AM, skip at pobox.com wrote:
>
>
>>   Garrett> I think having bouncers would be *ridiculously* cool. Carl?
>>
>> By making it harder to get into you'd probably raise the cachet and
>> suddenly
>> everyone would want to get in, as if if was the latest trendy night club.
>> You'd probably have to start serving chocolate martinis.  Then you'd get
>> written up on the social pages of the Trib after Kanye showed up one
>> night...
>>
>>
>
> We might be able to pull that off, Sullys?
>
> On a side note the line up tonight is shaping up nicely:
>
>
> http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tWDOaOr7_kqB-yVgfQPRh7w&single=true&gid=0&output=html
>
> This is going to be insane.  I think we invited Kanye before but he would
> not stop interrupting ;)
>
> Brian Ray
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From MDiPierro at cs.depaul.edu  Thu Mar 11 18:41:07 2010
From: MDiPierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 11:41:07 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Fwd: Developers
References: <e0c0c50f1003101320o32601d06wdebf48d02c2490b9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A5D9697E-FB79-4429-8B19-E5FCB23B3D91@cs.depaul.edu>

I am forwarding this in case there is any PHP programmer here  
interested in moving to the US Virgin Islands. Give the weather around  
here this is tempting.

Massimo

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Ronald Petty <ronald.petty at gmail.com>
> Date: March 10, 2010 3:20:19 PM CST
> To: "DiPierro, Massimo" <MDiPierro at cs.depaul.edu>
> Subject: Developers
>
> Massimo,
>
> I hope you are doing well.  I was curious if you don't mind lending  
> me a hand.
>
> The company I am working for has two openings for PHP/MySQL
> developers.  The company is called Glacial Energy.  You can view the
> website here http://www.glacialenergy.com.  I am currently the only
> DePaul alumni at this company (head of IT), I would like to rectify
> that situation.  I know you are very good at detecting strong
> performing programmers.  Do you happen to know any graduate students
> (recently graduated) or alumni looking for a Energy Services related
> programming job?  The immediate issue would be relocation.  Our
> operations is based in the US Virgin Islands, no telecommute.  If
> don't mind passing the word along or know some people, I am happy hear
> about them.  I appreciate your help.
>
> Kindest regards.
>
> Ron Petty
> DePaul Alum ('05 MSCS, '08 MBA Finance)

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From tal.liron at threecrickets.com  Thu Mar 11 19:23:25 2010
From: tal.liron at threecrickets.com (Tal Liron)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 12:23:25 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] The Portland group guards the door to their
	meetings...
In-Reply-To: <94e10adf1003110931w3ba235f1wcd3b81a5aafa5d02@mail.gmail.com>
References: <19350.41878.500028.211034@montanaro.dyndns.org>	<f604188c1003091522p55bc7b82g1da077426f07e2c8@mail.gmail.com>	<ce2570e21003091652n4d149f01me8982394cca73447@mail.gmail.com>	<19353.708.162771.365199@montanaro.dyndns.org>	<EC331885-0429-4B78-B208-429476837D1B@sent.com>
	<94e10adf1003110931w3ba235f1wcd3b81a5aafa5d02@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B99351D.4090804@threecrickets.com>

Sorry guys, I tentatively offered to do Clojure, but can't make it. So, 
I cannot offer you closure on the language showdown. (Get it? Closure?)

Too bad, I was looking forward to getting thrown out of a bar for 
punching a Common Lisp programmer. That's only happened to me a handful 
of times.

-Tal

On 03/11/2010 11:31 AM, Dan Krol wrote:
> Talked to Tristan, who was signed up for Haskell. He never heard back 
> about it so he didn't realize that this went past speculative phases, 
> so he's not ready to talk tonight.
>
> Maybe we should doublecheck that everybody's ready?
>
> On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 10:10 AM, Brian Ray <bray at sent.com 
> <mailto:bray at sent.com>> wrote:
>
>
>     On Mar 11, 2010, at 8:48 AM, skip at pobox.com
>     <mailto:skip at pobox.com> wrote:
>
>
>           Garrett> I think having bouncers would be *ridiculously*
>         cool. Carl?
>
>         By making it harder to get into you'd probably raise the
>         cachet and suddenly
>         everyone would want to get in, as if if was the latest trendy
>         night club.
>         You'd probably have to start serving chocolate martinis.  Then
>         you'd get
>         written up on the social pages of the Trib after Kanye showed
>         up one
>         night...
>
>
>
>     We might be able to pull that off, Sullys?
>
>     On a side note the line up tonight is shaping up nicely:
>
>     http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tWDOaOr7_kqB-yVgfQPRh7w&single=true&gid=0&output=html
>     <http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tWDOaOr7_kqB-yVgfQPRh7w&single=true&gid=0&output=html>
>
>     This is going to be insane.  I think we invited Kanye before but
>     he would not stop interrupting ;)
>
>     Brian Ray
>
>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Chicago mailing list
>     Chicago at python.org <mailto:Chicago at python.org>
>     http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>    

From g at rre.tt  Thu Mar 11 19:26:22 2010
From: g at rre.tt (Garrett Smith)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 12:26:22 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] The Portland group guards the door to their
	meetings...
In-Reply-To: <4B9913CF.8020406@hostedlabs.com>
References: <19350.41878.500028.211034@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<f604188c1003091522p55bc7b82g1da077426f07e2c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003091652n4d149f01me8982394cca73447@mail.gmail.com>
	<19353.708.162771.365199@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<CF971495-6E83-4BA6-BCF4-BA5CD2369405@unc.edu>
	<4B9913CF.8020406@hostedlabs.com>
Message-ID: <ce2570e21003111026s6f853546pe83a7a13ea95824c@mail.gmail.com>

Bouncers, chocolate martinis and leather would definitely be an
interesting combo. But if there's one language group in Chicago that
could successfully integrate them, it's Chipy!

Personally, I just want to see Carl as the Chipy bouncer for a
meeting. Freakin' awesome.

On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 10:01 AM, Jason Rexilius <jason at hostedlabs.com> wrote:
> Hmm.. I hope we're not proposing bouncers with chocolate martinis.. ?add
> some black leather and you might draw a different crowd than intended..
>
>
>
> Josh Johnson wrote:
>>
>> I think chocolate martini's would be ok even if there *wasn't* a bouncer
>> :P
>>
>> JJ
>>
>> On Mar 11, 2010, at 9:48 AM, skip at pobox.com wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> ? Garrett> I think having bouncers would be *ridiculously* cool. Carl?
>>>
>>> By making it harder to get into you'd probably raise the cachet and
>>> suddenly
>>> everyone would want to get in, as if if was the latest trendy night club.
>>> You'd probably have to start serving chocolate martinis. ?Then you'd get
>>> written up on the social pages of the Trib after Kanye showed up one
>>> night...
>>>
>>> Skip
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From cfkarsten at gmail.com  Thu Mar 11 19:49:47 2010
From: cfkarsten at gmail.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 12:49:47 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] The Portland group guards the door to their
	meetings...
In-Reply-To: <ce2570e21003111026s6f853546pe83a7a13ea95824c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <19350.41878.500028.211034@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<f604188c1003091522p55bc7b82g1da077426f07e2c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003091652n4d149f01me8982394cca73447@mail.gmail.com>
	<19353.708.162771.365199@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<CF971495-6E83-4BA6-BCF4-BA5CD2369405@unc.edu>
	<4B9913CF.8020406@hostedlabs.com>
	<ce2570e21003111026s6f853546pe83a7a13ea95824c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <549053141003111049j9f71c75k54540eb55c480ada@mail.gmail.com>

I'm disturbed by that request.

Isn't the first time.

On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 12:26 PM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
> Bouncers, chocolate martinis and leather would definitely be an
> interesting combo. But if there's one language group in Chicago that
> could successfully integrate them, it's Chipy!
>
> Personally, I just want to see Carl as the Chipy bouncer for a
> meeting. Freakin' awesome.
>
> On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 10:01 AM, Jason Rexilius <jason at hostedlabs.com> wrote:
>> Hmm.. I hope we're not proposing bouncers with chocolate martinis.. ?add
>> some black leather and you might draw a different crowd than intended..
>>
>>
>>
>> Josh Johnson wrote:
>>>
>>> I think chocolate martini's would be ok even if there *wasn't* a bouncer
>>> :P
>>>
>>> JJ
>>>
>>> On Mar 11, 2010, at 9:48 AM, skip at pobox.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> ? Garrett> I think having bouncers would be *ridiculously* cool. Carl?
>>>>
>>>> By making it harder to get into you'd probably raise the cachet and
>>>> suddenly
>>>> everyone would want to get in, as if if was the latest trendy night club.
>>>> You'd probably have to start serving chocolate martinis. ?Then you'd get
>>>> written up on the social pages of the Trib after Kanye showed up one
>>>> night...
>>>>
>>>> Skip
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
Carl K

From herbieman2000 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 11 21:03:39 2010
From: herbieman2000 at gmail.com (Frank Duncan)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 14:03:39 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] The Portland group guards the door to their
	meetings...
In-Reply-To: <4B99351D.4090804@threecrickets.com>
References: <19350.41878.500028.211034@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<f604188c1003091522p55bc7b82g1da077426f07e2c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003091652n4d149f01me8982394cca73447@mail.gmail.com>
	<19353.708.162771.365199@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<EC331885-0429-4B78-B208-429476837D1B@sent.com>
	<94e10adf1003110931w3ba235f1wcd3b81a5aafa5d02@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B99351D.4090804@threecrickets.com>
Message-ID: <E150EDDE-E4C2-4AFC-A32D-FDA33EE62605@gmail.com>

As I broke my shoulder last week, it's definitely a fight you would  
have won.  But you'd still be stuck using a shoddy, derivative  
language running on an oracle vm, so I think the victory would have  
been phyrric.

On Mar 11, 2010, at 12:23 PM, Tal Liron <tal.liron at threecrickets.com>  
wrote:

> Sorry guys, I tentatively offered to do Clojure, but can't make it.  
> So, I cannot offer you closure on the language showdown. (Get it?  
> Closure?)
>
> Too bad, I was looking forward to getting thrown out of a bar for  
> punching a Common Lisp programmer. That's only happened to me a  
> handful of times.
>
> -Tal
>
> On 03/11/2010 11:31 AM, Dan Krol wrote:
>> Talked to Tristan, who was signed up for Haskell. He never heard  
>> back about it so he didn't realize that this went past speculative  
>> phases, so he's not ready to talk tonight.
>>
>> Maybe we should doublecheck that everybody's ready?
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 10:10 AM, Brian Ray <bray at sent.com <mailto:bray at sent.com 
>> >> wrote:
>>
>>
>>    On Mar 11, 2010, at 8:48 AM, skip at pobox.com
>>    <mailto:skip at pobox.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>          Garrett> I think having bouncers would be *ridiculously*
>>        cool. Carl?
>>
>>        By making it harder to get into you'd probably raise the
>>        cachet and suddenly
>>        everyone would want to get in, as if if was the latest trendy
>>        night club.
>>        You'd probably have to start serving chocolate martinis.  Then
>>        you'd get
>>        written up on the social pages of the Trib after Kanye showed
>>        up one
>>        night...
>>
>>
>>
>>    We might be able to pull that off, Sullys?
>>
>>    On a side note the line up tonight is shaping up nicely:
>>
>>    http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tWDOaOr7_kqB-yVgfQPRh7w&single=true&gid=0&output=html
>>    <http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tWDOaOr7_kqB-yVgfQPRh7w&single=true&gid=0&output=html 
>> >
>>
>>    This is going to be insane.  I think we invited Kanye before but
>>    he would not stop interrupting ;)
>>
>>    Brian Ray
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>    _______________________________________________
>>    Chicago mailing list
>>    Chicago at python.org <mailto:Chicago at python.org>
>>    http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From wscullin at gmail.com  Fri Mar 12 00:22:10 2010
From: wscullin at gmail.com (William Scullin)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 17:22:10 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] The Portland group guards the door to their
	meetings...
In-Reply-To: <94e10adf1003110931w3ba235f1wcd3b81a5aafa5d02@mail.gmail.com>
References: <19350.41878.500028.211034@montanaro.dyndns.org> 
	<f604188c1003091522p55bc7b82g1da077426f07e2c8@mail.gmail.com> 
	<ce2570e21003091652n4d149f01me8982394cca73447@mail.gmail.com> 
	<19353.708.162771.365199@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<EC331885-0429-4B78-B208-429476837D1B@sent.com> 
	<94e10adf1003110931w3ba235f1wcd3b81a5aafa5d02@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <acff52241003111522h3f1b7ad2oa53b1554a31ba9aa@mail.gmail.com>

I also hadn't realized we hadn't gone past a speculative point... my
bad for not having followed the thread. I can still go, but can't do
Fortran the justice it deserves.

- William


On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Dan Krol <orblivion at gmail.com> wrote:
> Talked to Tristan, who was signed up for Haskell. He never heard back about
> it so he didn't realize that this went past speculative phases, so he's not
> ready to talk tonight.
>
> Maybe we should doublecheck that everybody's ready?
>
> On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 10:10 AM, Brian Ray <bray at sent.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Mar 11, 2010, at 8:48 AM, skip at pobox.com wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> ? Garrett> I think having bouncers would be *ridiculously* cool. Carl?
>>>
>>> By making it harder to get into you'd probably raise the cachet and
>>> suddenly
>>> everyone would want to get in, as if if was the latest trendy night club.
>>> You'd probably have to start serving chocolate martinis. ?Then you'd get
>>> written up on the social pages of the Trib after Kanye showed up one
>>> night...
>>>
>>
>>
>> We might be able to pull that off, Sullys?
>>
>> On a side note the line up tonight is shaping up nicely:
>>
>>
>> http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tWDOaOr7_kqB-yVgfQPRh7w&single=true&gid=0&output=html
>>
>> This is going to be insane. ?I think we invited Kanye before but he would
>> not stop interrupting ;)
>>
>> Brian Ray
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>

From chad at glendenin.com  Fri Mar 12 00:40:13 2010
From: chad at glendenin.com (Chad Glendenin)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 17:40:13 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] The Portland group guards the door to their
	meetings...
In-Reply-To: <191d03ff1003111537yd3fe80bi62bdb085fb18301f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <19350.41878.500028.211034@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<f604188c1003091522p55bc7b82g1da077426f07e2c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003091652n4d149f01me8982394cca73447@mail.gmail.com>
	<19353.708.162771.365199@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<EC331885-0429-4B78-B208-429476837D1B@sent.com>
	<94e10adf1003110931w3ba235f1wcd3b81a5aafa5d02@mail.gmail.com>
	<acff52241003111522h3f1b7ad2oa53b1554a31ba9aa@mail.gmail.com>
	<191d03ff1003111537yd3fe80bi62bdb085fb18301f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <191d03ff1003111540q49d5ff0fnd1aebae250f63980@mail.gmail.com>

Just do something extemporaneous. It's already more than Fortran deserves.

ccg

On Mar 11, 2010 5:26 PM, "William Scullin" <wscullin at gmail.com> wrote:

I also hadn't realized we hadn't gone past a speculative point... my
bad for not having followed the thread. I can still go, but can't do
Fortran the justice it deserves.

- William



On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Dan Krol <orblivion at gmail.com> wrote:
> Talked to Tristan, who w...
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From akotia2 at uic.edu  Thu Mar 11 16:45:29 2010
From: akotia2 at uic.edu (Kotian, Ameet Silas S.)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 09:45:29 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Mini-Expo at Flourish 2010 Open Source Conference
Message-ID: <3a353b6490653b5c09ad8faefdfa9e22.squirrel@webmail.uic.edu>

In previous years, members from Chicago Python Users Group have attended
the Flourish Conference to create awareness about the group. We would like
to invite you again this year for Flourish 2010.

Flourish is a bit earlier this year than in prior years.  Flourish
Conference 2010 will be held on Friday, March 19th and Saturday, March
20th.  As usual, the event will be held at the University of Illinois
at Chicago.  In addition to the mini-expo, this year's Flourish will
host excellent, open source related talks and workshops and a coding
sprint.  More information can be found on our website:
http://www.flourishconf.com/.

Non-profit organizations, like Chicago Python Users Group, will get a
*free* table at the Mini-expo. But if your organization plans to
demonstrate or advertise some product, the reservations for a Mini-expo
table require a minimal sponsorship of $150.  With that, you also get your
company's logo displayed on nearly every page of the Flourish 2010
website.  More generous sponsorships are rewarded with increased
recognition.  More information can be found on the sponsorship page of our
website:
http://www.flourishconf.com/sponsorship/.

Thank you for your time.  Please feel free to email me if you have any
questions. I hope that I will see you again at Flourish Conference 2010.

Sincerely,
Ameet Kotian
UIC Linux Users Group.




From g at rre.tt  Fri Mar 12 01:24:28 2010
From: g at rre.tt (Garrett Smith)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 18:24:28 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] The Portland group guards the door to their
	meetings...
In-Reply-To: <acff52241003111522h3f1b7ad2oa53b1554a31ba9aa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <19350.41878.500028.211034@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<f604188c1003091522p55bc7b82g1da077426f07e2c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce2570e21003091652n4d149f01me8982394cca73447@mail.gmail.com>
	<19353.708.162771.365199@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<EC331885-0429-4B78-B208-429476837D1B@sent.com>
	<94e10adf1003110931w3ba235f1wcd3b81a5aafa5d02@mail.gmail.com>
	<acff52241003111522h3f1b7ad2oa53b1554a31ba9aa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EAC17F4E-6433-4005-8296-C9DA90971EDB@rre.tt>

We're gonna chant you up to the podium. You know that, right?



On Mar 11, 2010, at 5:22 PM, William Scullin <wscullin at gmail.com> wrote:

> I also hadn't realized we hadn't gone past a speculative point... my
> bad for not having followed the thread. I can still go, but can't do
> Fortran the justice it deserves.
>
> - William
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Dan Krol <orblivion at gmail.com>  
> wrote:
>> Talked to Tristan, who was signed up for Haskell. He never heard  
>> back about
>> it so he didn't realize that this went past speculative phases, so  
>> he's not
>> ready to talk tonight.
>>
>> Maybe we should doublecheck that everybody's ready?
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 10:10 AM, Brian Ray <bray at sent.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Mar 11, 2010, at 8:48 AM, skip at pobox.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>   Garrett> I think having bouncers would be *ridiculously* cool.  
>>>> Carl?
>>>>
>>>> By making it harder to get into you'd probably raise the cachet and
>>>> suddenly
>>>> everyone would want to get in, as if if was the latest trendy  
>>>> night club.
>>>> You'd probably have to start serving chocolate martinis.  Then  
>>>> you'd get
>>>> written up on the social pages of the Trib after Kanye showed up  
>>>> one
>>>> night...
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We might be able to pull that off, Sullys?
>>>
>>> On a side note the line up tonight is shaping up nicely:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tWDOaOr7_kqB-yVgfQPRh7w&single=true&gid=0&output=html
>>>
>>> This is going to be insane.  I think we invited Kanye before but  
>>> he would
>>> not stop interrupting ;)
>>>
>>> Brian Ray
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From g at rre.tt  Fri Mar 12 18:10:36 2010
From: g at rre.tt (Garrett Smith)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 11:10:36 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Erlang resources
Message-ID: <ce2570e21003120910k26b11619ncff7c7a97fba3ff0@mail.gmail.com>

Great talks last night! Really impressive how so much quality content
came together so quickly!

For those interested in learning more about Erlang, a couple of good resources:

http://groups.google.com/group/ceug

This is a local group that meets roughly once a month. There's always
beer and interesting topics. There's a good mix of seasoned Erlang
developers and folks just looking to learn more. Good stuff.

http://erlang.org

Obviously the language site. The two books listed on the front page
are pretty much the standard two that people read to get up to speed.
I highly recommend both, but if you're limited to one, I personally
turn to the OReilly book more often. The online docs are good for
reference material, but not so good as starting points for learning.

For those starting, I'd recommend this course (though naturally
everyone learns differently, just my take):

1. Get one or two books, read through and play around with coding samples, etc.

2. Define a problem that you find interesting and that you think
Erlang might work well for (chat server, game, simple web app, etc.)

3. Use either the Chicago mailing list or the mail Erlang questions
list for help and definitely come to a CEUG meeting and ask questions
to help move your project along

Happy learning!

Garrett

From brianherman at gmail.com  Fri Mar 12 18:32:25 2010
From: brianherman at gmail.com (Brian Herman)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 11:32:25 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Erlang resources
In-Reply-To: <ce2570e21003120910k26b11619ncff7c7a97fba3ff0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ce2570e21003120910k26b11619ncff7c7a97fba3ff0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ef15ddc1003120932r24153cdex38c7fb95ca09e2fb@mail.gmail.com>

Why is there google groups page that awful yellow?

On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 11:10 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:

> Great talks last night! Really impressive how so much quality content
> came together so quickly!
>
> For those interested in learning more about Erlang, a couple of good
> resources:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/ceug
>
> This is a local group that meets roughly once a month. There's always
> beer and interesting topics. There's a good mix of seasoned Erlang
> developers and folks just looking to learn more. Good stuff.
>
> http://erlang.org
>
> Obviously the language site. The two books listed on the front page
> are pretty much the standard two that people read to get up to speed.
> I highly recommend both, but if you're limited to one, I personally
> turn to the OReilly book more often. The online docs are good for
> reference material, but not so good as starting points for learning.
>
> For those starting, I'd recommend this course (though naturally
> everyone learns differently, just my take):
>
> 1. Get one or two books, read through and play around with coding samples,
> etc.
>
> 2. Define a problem that you find interesting and that you think
> Erlang might work well for (chat server, game, simple web app, etc.)
>
> 3. Use either the Chicago mailing list or the mail Erlang questions
> list for help and definitely come to a CEUG meeting and ask questions
> to help move your project along
>
> Happy learning!
>
> Garrett
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
_________________________________
Thank You,
Brian Herman
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From allanlesage at gmail.com  Fri Mar 12 18:45:47 2010
From: allanlesage at gmail.com (Allan LeSage)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 11:45:47 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Erlang resources
In-Reply-To: <4ef15ddc1003120932r24153cdex38c7fb95ca09e2fb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ce2570e21003120910k26b11619ncff7c7a97fba3ff0@mail.gmail.com>
	<4ef15ddc1003120932r24153cdex38c7fb95ca09e2fb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <69ad11e41003120945p4bfd4bdq52fc0d76d7bc30a@mail.gmail.com>

Also topical to last night's talks this authentic FORTH book cover made a
splash on Reddit a while ago. . . .

http://www.globalnerdy.com/2007/09/14/reimagining-programming-book-covers/

Allan

On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 11:32 AM, Brian Herman <brianherman at gmail.com>wrote:

> Why is there google groups page that awful yellow?
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 11:10 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
>
>> Great talks last night! Really impressive how so much quality content
>> came together so quickly!
>>
>> For those interested in learning more about Erlang, a couple of good
>> resources:
>>
>> http://groups.google.com/group/ceug
>>
>> This is a local group that meets roughly once a month. There's always
>> beer and interesting topics. There's a good mix of seasoned Erlang
>> developers and folks just looking to learn more. Good stuff.
>>
>> http://erlang.org
>>
>> Obviously the language site. The two books listed on the front page
>> are pretty much the standard two that people read to get up to speed.
>> I highly recommend both, but if you're limited to one, I personally
>> turn to the OReilly book more often. The online docs are good for
>> reference material, but not so good as starting points for learning.
>>
>> For those starting, I'd recommend this course (though naturally
>> everyone learns differently, just my take):
>>
>> 1. Get one or two books, read through and play around with coding samples,
>> etc.
>>
>> 2. Define a problem that you find interesting and that you think
>> Erlang might work well for (chat server, game, simple web app, etc.)
>>
>> 3. Use either the Chicago mailing list or the mail Erlang questions
>> list for help and definitely come to a CEUG meeting and ask questions
>> to help move your project along
>>
>> Happy learning!
>>
>> Garrett
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
>
>
> --
> _________________________________
> Thank You,
> Brian Herman
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From clydeforrester at gmail.com  Fri Mar 12 19:54:28 2010
From: clydeforrester at gmail.com (Clyde Forrester)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 12:54:28 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Perl Follow-up
Message-ID: <4B9A8DE4.3090204@gmail.com>

I raised some issues about Perl vs. Python, and I'd like to invite some 
comment and advice.

First, can anyone recommend a properly Pythonic way of doing translations?

One example of such translations would be complementing DNA sequences. 
Translating T to A, A to T, C to G, and G to C.

Another example would be ROT-13 encryption and decryption.

Second, where does one properly look for Python resources such as 
programming examples?

Third, if I forgot an important question, go ahead and answer it anyway.

Finally, I left out an anecdote about regular expressions: Someone 
recently posted a Perl data-parsing problem using regular expressions. 
Many things were suggested and tried. Nothing quite worked. Finally, I 
suggested that since the data seemed to be in fixed columns, that 
substrings should be used instead of pattern matching. It seems to have 
worked. (Oh, but.. but.. but regex is so wicked cool!)

c4

From alex.gaynor at gmail.com  Fri Mar 12 20:01:09 2010
From: alex.gaynor at gmail.com (Alex Gaynor)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 13:01:09 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Perl Follow-up
In-Reply-To: <4B9A8DE4.3090204@gmail.com>
References: <4B9A8DE4.3090204@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ae6584d31003121101w541763bydddabfe4cb3e40ab@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Clyde Forrester
<clydeforrester at gmail.com> wrote:
> I raised some issues about Perl vs. Python, and I'd like to invite some
> comment and advice.
>
> First, can anyone recommend a properly Pythonic way of doing translations?
>
> One example of such translations would be complementing DNA sequences.
> Translating T to A, A to T, C to G, and G to C.
>

>>> import string
>>> trans = string.maketrans("TACG", "ATGC")
>>> my_dna = "agtcaagta".upper()
>>> my_dna.translate(trans)
[10] 'TCAGTTCAT'


> Another example would be ROT-13 encryption and decryption.
>
> Second, where does one properly look for Python resources such as
> programming examples?
>
> Third, if I forgot an important question, go ahead and answer it anyway.
>
> Finally, I left out an anecdote about regular expressions: Someone recently
> posted a Perl data-parsing problem using regular expressions. Many things
> were suggested and tried. Nothing quite worked. Finally, I suggested that
> since the data seemed to be in fixed columns, that substrings should be used
> instead of pattern matching. It seems to have worked. (Oh, but.. but.. but
> regex is so wicked cool!)
>
> c4
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

Alex

-- 
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your
right to say it." -- Voltaire
"The people's good is the highest law." -- Cicero
"Code can always be simpler than you think, but never as simple as you
want" -- Me

From christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com  Fri Mar 12 20:05:02 2010
From: christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com (Jonathan Hayward)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 13:05:02 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Perl Follow-up
In-Reply-To: <4B9A8DE4.3090204@gmail.com>
References: <4B9A8DE4.3090204@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fdc31b651003121105p457c9e83s8512c1f90758cfaa@mail.gmail.com>

Someone said that Python *does* have a switch statement; it's the
dictionary.

One way to do translations would seem to be:

function transpose(input, translations = {'T': 'A', 'A': 'T', 'C': 'G', 'G':
C'}):
    result = []
    for character in input:
        if character in translations:
            result.append(translations[character])
        else:
            result.append(character)

But it looks like Alex Gaynor found an "It's already solved in the standard
library" approach, so I'd vote for his solution.

On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Clyde Forrester
<clydeforrester at gmail.com>wrote:

> I raised some issues about Perl vs. Python, and I'd like to invite some
> comment and advice.
>
> First, can anyone recommend a properly Pythonic way of doing translations?
>
> One example of such translations would be complementing DNA sequences.
> Translating T to A, A to T, C to G, and G to C.
>
> Another example would be ROT-13 encryption and decryption.
>
> Second, where does one properly look for Python resources such as
> programming examples?
>
> Third, if I forgot an important question, go ahead and answer it anyway.
>
> Finally, I left out an anecdote about regular expressions: Someone recently
> posted a Perl data-parsing problem using regular expressions. Many things
> were suggested and tried. Nothing quite worked. Finally, I suggested that
> since the data seemed to be in fixed columns, that substrings should be used
> instead of pattern matching. It seems to have worked. (Oh, but.. but.. but
> regex is so wicked cool!)
>
> c4
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about usability
? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward ? jonathan.hayward at pobox.com
? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux, Perl, PHP,
Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making software
and websites a joy to use
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From christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com  Fri Mar 12 20:05:57 2010
From: christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com (Jonathan Hayward)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 13:05:57 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Perl Follow-up
In-Reply-To: <fdc31b651003121105p457c9e83s8512c1f90758cfaa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B9A8DE4.3090204@gmail.com>
	<fdc31b651003121105p457c9e83s8512c1f90758cfaa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fdc31b651003121105r78c99958v1afd73c21724a19f@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 1:05 PM, Jonathan Hayward <
christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com> wrote:

> Someone said that Python *does* have a switch statement; it's the
> dictionary.
>
> One way to do translations would seem to be:
>
> function transpose(input, translations = {'T': 'A', 'A': 'T', 'C': 'G',
> 'G': C'}):
>     result = []
>     for character in input:
>         if character in translations:
>             result.append(translations[character])
>         else:
>             result.append(character)
>    return "".join(result)
>

Left out a return statement.


> But it looks like Alex Gaynor found an "It's already solved in the standard
> library" approach, so I'd vote for his solution.
>
> On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Clyde Forrester <
> clydeforrester at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I raised some issues about Perl vs. Python, and I'd like to invite some
>> comment and advice.
>>
>> First, can anyone recommend a properly Pythonic way of doing translations?
>>
>> One example of such translations would be complementing DNA sequences.
>> Translating T to A, A to T, C to G, and G to C.
>>
>> Another example would be ROT-13 encryption and decryption.
>>
>> Second, where does one properly look for Python resources such as
>> programming examples?
>>
>> Third, if I forgot an important question, go ahead and answer it anyway.
>>
>> Finally, I left out an anecdote about regular expressions: Someone
>> recently posted a Perl data-parsing problem using regular expressions. Many
>> things were suggested and tried. Nothing quite worked. Finally, I suggested
>> that since the data seemed to be in fixed columns, that substrings should be
>> used instead of pattern matching. It seems to have worked. (Oh, but.. but..
>> but regex is so wicked cool!)
>>
>> c4
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
>
>
> --
> ? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about usability
> ? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward ? jonathan.hayward at pobox.com
> ? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux, Perl, PHP,
> Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
> ? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making software
> and websites a joy to use
>



-- 
? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about usability
? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward ? jonathan.hayward at pobox.com
? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux, Perl, PHP,
Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making software
and websites a joy to use
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From orblivion at gmail.com  Fri Mar 12 20:11:58 2010
From: orblivion at gmail.com (Dan Krol)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 13:11:58 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Perl Follow-up
In-Reply-To: <fdc31b651003121105r78c99958v1afd73c21724a19f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B9A8DE4.3090204@gmail.com>
	<fdc31b651003121105p457c9e83s8512c1f90758cfaa@mail.gmail.com>
	<fdc31b651003121105r78c99958v1afd73c21724a19f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <94e10adf1003121111m2460468fpb1b45e90d59329df@mail.gmail.com>

For ROT13 encryption/decryption, I'd say:

lc = string.ascii_lowercase
uc = string.ascii_uppercase
transtab = string.maketrans (lc + uc, lc[13:] + lc[:13] + uc[13:] + uc[:13])


On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 1:05 PM, Jonathan Hayward <
christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 1:05 PM, Jonathan Hayward <
> christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Someone said that Python *does* have a switch statement; it's the
>> dictionary.
>>
>> One way to do translations would seem to be:
>>
>> function transpose(input, translations = {'T': 'A', 'A': 'T', 'C': 'G',
>> 'G': C'}):
>>     result = []
>>     for character in input:
>>         if character in translations:
>>             result.append(translations[character])
>>         else:
>>             result.append(character)
>>    return "".join(result)
>>
>
> Left out a return statement.
>
>
>> But it looks like Alex Gaynor found an "It's already solved in the
>> standard library" approach, so I'd vote for his solution.
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Clyde Forrester <
>> clydeforrester at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I raised some issues about Perl vs. Python, and I'd like to invite some
>>> comment and advice.
>>>
>>> First, can anyone recommend a properly Pythonic way of doing
>>> translations?
>>>
>>> One example of such translations would be complementing DNA sequences.
>>> Translating T to A, A to T, C to G, and G to C.
>>>
>>> Another example would be ROT-13 encryption and decryption.
>>>
>>> Second, where does one properly look for Python resources such as
>>> programming examples?
>>>
>>> Third, if I forgot an important question, go ahead and answer it anyway.
>>>
>>> Finally, I left out an anecdote about regular expressions: Someone
>>> recently posted a Perl data-parsing problem using regular expressions. Many
>>> things were suggested and tried. Nothing quite worked. Finally, I suggested
>>> that since the data seemed to be in fixed columns, that substrings should be
>>> used instead of pattern matching. It seems to have worked. (Oh, but.. but..
>>> but regex is so wicked cool!)
>>>
>>> c4
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about
>> usability
>> ? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward ? jonathan.hayward at pobox.com
>> ? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux, Perl, PHP,
>> Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
>> ? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making software
>> and websites a joy to use
>>
>
>
>
> --
> ? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about usability
> ? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward ? jonathan.hayward at pobox.com
> ? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux, Perl, PHP,
> Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
> ? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making software
> and websites a joy to use
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From goodmansond at gmail.com  Fri Mar 12 20:23:53 2010
From: goodmansond at gmail.com (DeanG)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 13:23:53 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Perl Follow-up
In-Reply-To: <4B9A8DE4.3090204@gmail.com>
References: <4B9A8DE4.3090204@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f5c6a5401003121123i7d16236dpba65d25d18483218@mail.gmail.com>

Gotta post this gem, answered in the follow-up with the stdlib by Tim
Peters. (But you were probably looking for it as an example code, not
a built-in std-lib function call.)

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2002-October/167463.html

John graced our presence at PyCon 2008:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/psmith/2343368987/

On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Clyde Forrester
<clydeforrester at gmail.com> wrote:
> Another example would be ROT-13 encryption and decryption.

From clydeforrester at gmail.com  Fri Mar 12 21:11:28 2010
From: clydeforrester at gmail.com (Clyde Forrester)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 14:11:28 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Perl Follow-up
In-Reply-To: <fdc31b651003121105r78c99958v1afd73c21724a19f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B9A8DE4.3090204@gmail.com>	<fdc31b651003121105p457c9e83s8512c1f90758cfaa@mail.gmail.com>
	<fdc31b651003121105r78c99958v1afd73c21724a19f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B9A9FF0.8080902@gmail.com>

Yes, those are the answers I'm looking for. Thank you!

The transpose function gives me insight as to how Python programmers 
view data and structures. Understanding the way of the language is 
something I have to go through with each language.

And the standard library gives me the built-in best performance, and 
cleaner, maintainable code.

c4

Jonathan Hayward wrote:
> 
> 
> On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 1:05 PM, Jonathan Hayward 
> <christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com 
> <mailto:christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>     Someone said that Python /does/ have a switch statement; it's the
>     dictionary.
> 
>     One way to do translations would seem to be:
> 
>     function transpose(input, translations = {'T': 'A', 'A': 'T', 'C':
>     'G', 'G': C'}):
>         result = []
>         for character in input:
>             if character in translations:
>                 result.append(translations[character])
>             else:
>                 result.append(character)
>        return "".join(result)
> 
> 
> Left out a return statement.
>  
> 
>     But it looks like Alex Gaynor found an "It's already solved in the
>     standard library" approach, so I'd vote for his solution.
> 
>     On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Clyde Forrester
>     <clydeforrester at gmail.com <mailto:clydeforrester at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>         I raised some issues about Perl vs. Python, and I'd like to
>         invite some comment and advice.
> 
>         First, can anyone recommend a properly Pythonic way of doing
>         translations?
> 
>         One example of such translations would be complementing DNA
>         sequences. Translating T to A, A to T, C to G, and G to C.
> 
>         Another example would be ROT-13 encryption and decryption.

From clydeforrester at gmail.com  Fri Mar 12 21:16:00 2010
From: clydeforrester at gmail.com (Clyde Forrester)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 14:16:00 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Perl Follow-up
In-Reply-To: <f5c6a5401003121123i7d16236dpba65d25d18483218@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B9A8DE4.3090204@gmail.com>
	<f5c6a5401003121123i7d16236dpba65d25d18483218@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B9AA100.7050301@gmail.com>

Again, yes, I'm looking for both answers. Thank you!

Dan Krol's code gives me the insight of the Python way.

And Tim Peters gives me the standard library solution for a classic example.

c4

DeanG wrote:
> Gotta post this gem, answered in the follow-up with the stdlib by Tim
> Peters. (But you were probably looking for it as an example code, not
> a built-in std-lib function call.)
> 
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2002-October/167463.html
> 
> John graced our presence at PyCon 2008:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/psmith/2343368987/
> 
> On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Clyde Forrester
> <clydeforrester at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Another example would be ROT-13 encryption and decryption.

From mtobis at gmail.com  Fri Mar 12 21:45:01 2010
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 14:45:01 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Perl Follow-up
In-Reply-To: <4B9AA100.7050301@gmail.com>
References: <4B9A8DE4.3090204@gmail.com>
	<f5c6a5401003121123i7d16236dpba65d25d18483218@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B9AA100.7050301@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c3aa55551003121245l609c185fu5b4a7107fa8a9ac5@mail.gmail.com>

To the second question, the Python Cookbook (O'Reilly) is good and
http://code.activestate.com/recipes/ contains some goodness.

mt

From alex.gaynor at gmail.com  Fri Mar 12 21:46:20 2010
From: alex.gaynor at gmail.com (Alex Gaynor)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 14:46:20 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Perl Follow-up
In-Reply-To: <c3aa55551003121245l609c185fu5b4a7107fa8a9ac5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B9A8DE4.3090204@gmail.com>
	<f5c6a5401003121123i7d16236dpba65d25d18483218@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B9AA100.7050301@gmail.com>
	<c3aa55551003121245l609c185fu5b4a7107fa8a9ac5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ae6584d31003121246u68ed26b8h51022024e4c9a4b3@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 2:45 PM, Michael Tobis <mtobis at gmail.com> wrote:
> To the second question, the Python Cookbook (O'Reilly) is good and
> http://code.activestate.com/recipes/ contains some goodness.
>
> mt
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

Read everything uploaded by Raymond Hettinger, it will make you a
better person: http://code.activestate.com/recipes/users/178123/

Alex

-- 
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your
right to say it." -- Voltaire
"The people's good is the highest law." -- Cicero
"Code can always be simpler than you think, but never as simple as you
want" -- Me

From brian.curtin at gmail.com  Fri Mar 12 21:48:06 2010
From: brian.curtin at gmail.com (Brian Curtin)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 14:48:06 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Perl Follow-up
In-Reply-To: <ae6584d31003121246u68ed26b8h51022024e4c9a4b3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B9A8DE4.3090204@gmail.com>
	<f5c6a5401003121123i7d16236dpba65d25d18483218@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B9AA100.7050301@gmail.com>
	<c3aa55551003121245l609c185fu5b4a7107fa8a9ac5@mail.gmail.com>
	<ae6584d31003121246u68ed26b8h51022024e4c9a4b3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cf9f31f21003121248v6890ec0dx8aa6207e39457377@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 14:46, Alex Gaynor <alex.gaynor at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 2:45 PM, Michael Tobis <mtobis at gmail.com> wrote:
> > To the second question, the Python Cookbook (O'Reilly) is good and
> > http://code.activestate.com/recipes/ contains some goodness.
> >
> > mt
>
> Read everything uploaded by Raymond Hettinger, it will make you a
> better person: http://code.activestate.com/recipes/users/178123/
>
> Alex
>
> --
> "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your
> right to say it." -- Voltaire
> "The people's good is the highest law." -- Cicero
> "Code can always be simpler than you think, but never as simple as you
> want" -- Me
>

+1000000
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From clydeforrester at gmail.com  Sat Mar 13 06:45:02 2010
From: clydeforrester at gmail.com (Clyde Forrester)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 23:45:02 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Perl Follow-up
In-Reply-To: <ae6584d31003121101w541763bydddabfe4cb3e40ab@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B9A8DE4.3090204@gmail.com>
	<ae6584d31003121101w541763bydddabfe4cb3e40ab@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B9B265E.1050509@gmail.com>

And the results are in. I have a Perl program and a Python program, each 
of which read a 60MB human Y chromosome, and compute the reverse 
complement. The Perl program takes about 15 seconds, and the Python 
program does it in about 3 seconds. The Python program also tends to be 
slightly more compact.

> # revcomp.py
> 
> import string
> 
> chrY_line_list = []
> for line in open('chrY.fa','r'):
>   if line[0] == '>':
>     continue
>   else:
>     chrY_line_list.append(line.strip('\n'))
> chrY_string = ''.join(chrY_line_list)
> print len(chrY_string)
> print chrY_string[10000:10020]
> 
> chrY_revcomp = chrY_string[::-1]
> trans = string.maketrans("ACGTacgt", "TGCAtgca")
> chrY_revcomp = chrY_revcomp.translate(trans)
> print len(chrY_revcomp)
> print chrY_revcomp[-10020:-10000]

> # revcomp.pl
> 
> use strict;
> use warnings;
> 
> my $infile = 'chrY.fa';
> open (my $in,'<',$infile) or die "Can't read $infile: $!\n";
> chomp(my @dna = <$in>);
> close ($in);
> 
> while(substr($dna[0],0,1) eq '>') {
>   shift(@dna);
> }
> 
> my $dna = join('', at dna);
> my $length = length($dna);
> print "DNA length: $length\n";
> my $substr = substr($dna,10000,20);
> print "$substr\n";
> 
> my $revcomp = reverse $dna;
> $revcomp =~ tr/ACGTacgt/TGCAtgca/;
> $length = length($revcomp);
> print "revcomp length: $length\n";
> $substr = substr($revcomp,-10020,20);
> print "$substr\n";


Alex Gaynor wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Clyde Forrester
> <clydeforrester at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I raised some issues about Perl vs. Python, and I'd like to invite some
>> comment and advice.
>>
>> First, can anyone recommend a properly Pythonic way of doing translations?
>>
>> One example of such translations would be complementing DNA sequences.
>> Translating T to A, A to T, C to G, and G to C.
>>
> 
>>>> import string
>>>> trans = string.maketrans("TACG", "ATGC")
>>>> my_dna = "agtcaagta".upper()
>>>> my_dna.translate(trans)

From brianherman at gmail.com  Sat Mar 13 07:17:55 2010
From: brianherman at gmail.com (Brian Herman)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 00:17:55 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Perl Follow-up
In-Reply-To: <4B9B265E.1050509@gmail.com>
References: <4B9A8DE4.3090204@gmail.com>
	<ae6584d31003121101w541763bydddabfe4cb3e40ab@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B9B265E.1050509@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7390523550178848754@unknownmsgid>

Nice job


___________________________________

Cowards die many times before their deaths,
The valiant never taste of death but once."
--From Julius Caesar (II, ii, 32-37)


On Mar 12, 2010, at 11:45 PM, Clyde Forrester
<clydeforrester at gmail.com> wrote:

> And the results are in. I have a Perl program and a Python program,
> each of which read a 60MB human Y chromosome, and compute the
> reverse complement. The Perl program takes about 15 seconds, and the
> Python program does it in about 3 seconds. The Python program also
> tends to be slightly more compact.
>
>> # revcomp.py
>> import string
>> chrY_line_list = []
>> for line in open('chrY.fa','r'):
>>  if line[0] == '>':
>>    continue
>>  else:
>>    chrY_line_list.append(line.strip('\n'))
>> chrY_string = ''.join(chrY_line_list)
>> print len(chrY_string)
>> print chrY_string[10000:10020]
>> chrY_revcomp = chrY_string[::-1]
>> trans = string.maketrans("ACGTacgt", "TGCAtgca")
>> chrY_revcomp = chrY_revcomp.translate(trans)
>> print len(chrY_revcomp)
>> print chrY_revcomp[-10020:-10000]
>
>> # revcomp.pl
>> use strict;
>> use warnings;
>> my $infile = 'chrY.fa';
>> open (my $in,'<',$infile) or die "Can't read $infile: $!\n";
>> chomp(my @dna = <$in>);
>> close ($in);
>> while(substr($dna[0],0,1) eq '>') {
>>  shift(@dna);
>> }
>> my $dna = join('', at dna);
>> my $length = length($dna);
>> print "DNA length: $length\n";
>> my $substr = substr($dna,10000,20);
>> print "$substr\n";
>> my $revcomp = reverse $dna;
>> $revcomp =~ tr/ACGTacgt/TGCAtgca/;
>> $length = length($revcomp);
>> print "revcomp length: $length\n";
>> $substr = substr($revcomp,-10020,20);
>> print "$substr\n";
>
>
> Alex Gaynor wrote:
>> On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Clyde Forrester
>> <clydeforrester at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I raised some issues about Perl vs. Python, and I'd like to invite
>>> some
>>> comment and advice.
>>>
>>> First, can anyone recommend a properly Pythonic way of doing
>>> translations?
>>>
>>> One example of such translations would be complementing DNA
>>> sequences.
>>> Translating T to A, A to T, C to G, and G to C.
>>>
>>>>> import string
>>>>> trans = string.maketrans("TACG", "ATGC")
>>>>> my_dna = "agtcaagta".upper()
>>>>> my_dna.translate(trans)
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com  Sat Mar 13 14:46:49 2010
From: christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com (Jonathan Hayward)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 07:46:49 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Perl Follow-up
In-Reply-To: <4B9B265E.1050509@gmail.com>
References: <4B9A8DE4.3090204@gmail.com>
	<ae6584d31003121101w541763bydddabfe4cb3e40ab@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B9B265E.1050509@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fdc31b651003130546q7c2c057fpea6762e272ed5715@mail.gmail.com>

EXTERIOR: DAGOBAH--DAY
           With Yoda strapped to his back, Luke climbs up one of the
        many thick vines that grow in the swamp until he reaches the
        Dagobah statistics lab. Panting heavily, he continues his
        exercises--grepping, installing new packages, logging in as
        root, and writing replacements for two-year-old shell scripts
        in Python.


YODA: Code!  Yes.  A programmer's strength flows from code maintainability.
      But beware of Perl.  Terse syntax... more than one way to do it...
      default variables.  The dark side of code maintainability are they.
      Easily they flow, quick to join you when code you write.  If once
      you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny,
      consume you it will.


LUKE: Is Perl better than Python?


YODA: No... no... no.  Quicker, easier, more seductive.


LUKE: But how will I know why Python is better than Perl?


YODA: You will know.  When your code you try to read six months from
      now.

[From rec.humor.funny, reprinted in an O'Reilly title]


On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 11:45 PM, Clyde Forrester
<clydeforrester at gmail.com>wrote:

> And the results are in. I have a Perl program and a Python program, each of
> which read a 60MB human Y chromosome, and compute the reverse complement.
> The Perl program takes about 15 seconds, and the Python program does it in
> about 3 seconds. The Python program also tends to be slightly more compact.
>
>  # revcomp.py
>>
>> import string
>>
>> chrY_line_list = []
>> for line in open('chrY.fa','r'):
>>  if line[0] == '>':
>>    continue
>>  else:
>>    chrY_line_list.append(line.strip('\n'))
>> chrY_string = ''.join(chrY_line_list)
>> print len(chrY_string)
>> print chrY_string[10000:10020]
>>
>> chrY_revcomp = chrY_string[::-1]
>> trans = string.maketrans("ACGTacgt", "TGCAtgca")
>> chrY_revcomp = chrY_revcomp.translate(trans)
>> print len(chrY_revcomp)
>> print chrY_revcomp[-10020:-10000]
>>
>
>  # revcomp.pl
>>
>> use strict;
>> use warnings;
>>
>> my $infile = 'chrY.fa';
>> open (my $in,'<',$infile) or die "Can't read $infile: $!\n";
>> chomp(my @dna = <$in>);
>> close ($in);
>>
>> while(substr($dna[0],0,1) eq '>') {
>>  shift(@dna);
>> }
>>
>> my $dna = join('', at dna);
>> my $length = length($dna);
>> print "DNA length: $length\n";
>> my $substr = substr($dna,10000,20);
>> print "$substr\n";
>>
>> my $revcomp = reverse $dna;
>> $revcomp =~ tr/ACGTacgt/TGCAtgca/;
>> $length = length($revcomp);
>> print "revcomp length: $length\n";
>> $substr = substr($revcomp,-10020,20);
>> print "$substr\n";
>>
>
>
> Alex Gaynor wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Clyde Forrester
>> <clydeforrester at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I raised some issues about Perl vs. Python, and I'd like to invite some
>>> comment and advice.
>>>
>>> First, can anyone recommend a properly Pythonic way of doing
>>> translations?
>>>
>>> One example of such translations would be complementing DNA sequences.
>>> Translating T to A, A to T, C to G, and G to C.
>>>
>>>
>>  import string
>>>>> trans = string.maketrans("TACG", "ATGC")
>>>>> my_dna = "agtcaagta".upper()
>>>>> my_dna.translate(trans)
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about usability
? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward ? jonathan.hayward at pobox.com
? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux, Perl, PHP,
Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making software
and websites a joy to use
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From christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com  Sat Mar 13 17:27:26 2010
From: christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com (Jonathan Hayward)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 10:27:26 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Perl Follow-up
In-Reply-To: <fdc31b651003130546q7c2c057fpea6762e272ed5715@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B9A8DE4.3090204@gmail.com>
	<ae6584d31003121101w541763bydddabfe4cb3e40ab@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B9B265E.1050509@gmail.com>
	<fdc31b651003130546q7c2c057fpea6762e272ed5715@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fdc31b651003130827w24f0724bwb9548f9edbe9c251@mail.gmail.com>

One other comment in regard to generators...

If I remember my biology, the Y chromosome is a short one, perhaps the
shortest human chromosome, and it weighed in at 600M (conceivably this could
be compressed considerably by straightforwardly using two bits rather than
one byte per nucleotide). You may have a lot of memory, but it could be
conceivable that you could want to do things with chromosome(s) that cannot
easily be loaded in memory, especially with two copies, one before the
translation, and one afterwards.

The following pseudocode is not optimized but takes a file object (opened
for reading) and, piece by piece, returns the transformed result, taking a
fixed (i.e. O(1)) amount of memory regardless of the size of the data. That
is, you should theoretically be able to buy a low-memory computer *at a
garage sale* and run code on this principle over the entire human genome
without memory constraints being an issue:

import string

def transform(filehandle, block_size=1024):
    translation = string.maketrans("TACG", "ATGC")
    while 1:
        input = filehandle.read(block_size)
        if not input:
            return
        yield input.translate(translation)

Are you familiar with generators? Basically, a generator is a function that
instead of returning once, keeps on yielding a result; an obvious use-case
is to take a problem that could be solved by using a large list (using O(n)
memory, a bit problematic if you're handling encyclopedias, chromosomes,
etc.), and allow another approach that uses an amount of memory that is
small and fixed. You don't specifically need as a specification to your
program that it store a whole chromosome in memory at once; it's just that
the most obvious solutions involve doing that, and generators allow you to
transform an arbitrarily large piece of information while using a fixed
(and, perhaps, quite low) amount of memory.

On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 7:46 AM, Jonathan Hayward <
christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com> wrote:

> EXTERIOR: DAGOBAH--DAY
>            With Yoda strapped to his back, Luke climbs up one of the
>         many thick vines that grow in the swamp until he reaches the
>         Dagobah statistics lab. Panting heavily, he continues his
>         exercises--grepping, installing new packages, logging in as
>         root, and writing replacements for two-year-old shell scripts
>         in Python.
>
>
> YODA: Code!  Yes.  A programmer's strength flows from code maintainability.
>       But beware of Perl.  Terse syntax... more than one way to do it...
>       default variables.  The dark side of code maintainability are they.
>       Easily they flow, quick to join you when code you write.  If once
>       you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny,
>       consume you it will.
>
>
> LUKE: Is Perl better than Python?
>
>
> YODA: No... no... no.  Quicker, easier, more seductive.
>
>
> LUKE: But how will I know why Python is better than Perl?
>
>
> YODA: You will know.  When your code you try to read six months from
>       now.
>
> [From rec.humor.funny, reprinted in an O'Reilly title]
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 11:45 PM, Clyde Forrester <
> clydeforrester at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> And the results are in. I have a Perl program and a Python program, each
>> of which read a 60MB human Y chromosome, and compute the reverse complement.
>> The Perl program takes about 15 seconds, and the Python program does it in
>> about 3 seconds. The Python program also tends to be slightly more compact.
>>
>>  # revcomp.py
>>>
>>> import string
>>>
>>> chrY_line_list = []
>>> for line in open('chrY.fa','r'):
>>>  if line[0] == '>':
>>>    continue
>>>  else:
>>>    chrY_line_list.append(line.strip('\n'))
>>> chrY_string = ''.join(chrY_line_list)
>>> print len(chrY_string)
>>> print chrY_string[10000:10020]
>>>
>>> chrY_revcomp = chrY_string[::-1]
>>> trans = string.maketrans("ACGTacgt", "TGCAtgca")
>>> chrY_revcomp = chrY_revcomp.translate(trans)
>>> print len(chrY_revcomp)
>>> print chrY_revcomp[-10020:-10000]
>>>
>>
>>  # revcomp.pl
>>>
>>> use strict;
>>> use warnings;
>>>
>>> my $infile = 'chrY.fa';
>>> open (my $in,'<',$infile) or die "Can't read $infile: $!\n";
>>> chomp(my @dna = <$in>);
>>> close ($in);
>>>
>>> while(substr($dna[0],0,1) eq '>') {
>>>  shift(@dna);
>>> }
>>>
>>> my $dna = join('', at dna);
>>> my $length = length($dna);
>>> print "DNA length: $length\n";
>>> my $substr = substr($dna,10000,20);
>>> print "$substr\n";
>>>
>>> my $revcomp = reverse $dna;
>>> $revcomp =~ tr/ACGTacgt/TGCAtgca/;
>>> $length = length($revcomp);
>>> print "revcomp length: $length\n";
>>> $substr = substr($revcomp,-10020,20);
>>> print "$substr\n";
>>>
>>
>>
>> Alex Gaynor wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Clyde Forrester
>>> <clydeforrester at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I raised some issues about Perl vs. Python, and I'd like to invite some
>>>> comment and advice.
>>>>
>>>> First, can anyone recommend a properly Pythonic way of doing
>>>> translations?
>>>>
>>>> One example of such translations would be complementing DNA sequences.
>>>> Translating T to A, A to T, C to G, and G to C.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>  import string
>>>>>> trans = string.maketrans("TACG", "ATGC")
>>>>>> my_dna = "agtcaagta".upper()
>>>>>> my_dna.translate(trans)
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
>
>
> --
> ? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about usability
> ? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward ? jonathan.hayward at pobox.com
> ? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux, Perl, PHP,
> Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
> ? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making software
> and websites a joy to use
>



-- 
? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about usability
? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward ? jonathan.hayward at pobox.com
? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux, Perl, PHP,
Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making software
and websites a joy to use
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From clydeforrester at gmail.com  Sat Mar 13 19:07:08 2010
From: clydeforrester at gmail.com (Clyde Forrester)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 12:07:08 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Perl Follow-up
In-Reply-To: <fdc31b651003130827w24f0724bwb9548f9edbe9c251@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B9A8DE4.3090204@gmail.com>	<ae6584d31003121101w541763bydddabfe4cb3e40ab@mail.gmail.com>	<4B9B265E.1050509@gmail.com>	<fdc31b651003130546q7c2c057fpea6762e272ed5715@mail.gmail.com>
	<fdc31b651003130827w24f0724bwb9548f9edbe9c251@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B9BD44C.8040109@gmail.com>

The sort of thing you suggest is the motive for this program.

The human Y chromosome is about 60 million nucleotide base pairs (60Mpb) 
in length. Other than the mitochondrial DNA, it is the shortest in my 
library. Human chromosome 1 is the longest at about a quarter billion 
bases pairs.

Running some hypothetical analysis on chrY is doable on my home machine. 
Running the reverse complement program on chr1 causes it to bork in 
MS-Windows. I have 2GB of memory. In Ubuntu Linux it will run, but it 
starts thrashing out to the swap partition toward the end.

The point is that with 8GB of memory, and a well focussed goal, doing it 
all in-memory is now quite feasible.

I have given a great deal of thought to other algorithms. If, for 
example, I had several hundred patterns, or motifs, to search for, I 
could use a serious array of state machines, and use indices to resolve 
candidacy and ongoing validity for massively parallel occurrences, in a 
single pass, even if I was doing the reverse complement on the fly. For 
each motif, I would wind up with an array of pointers into the 
chromosome. And I could do it with the sort of generator, or small 
moving window of buffered input, which you propose. This might be just 
the thing for a massive processor array computer to chew on.

The sort of experiment which I intend to do next, would be to look for 
CG-heavy sections of DNA. These indicate good areas for the termination 
of pre-RNA transcription. What they tend to do during transcription is 
bind to themselves, knot up, and break off the transcription. These 
potential transcription-ends are easier to spot than the starting areas, 
and then I would just look upstream to see if there's anything interesting.

As for looking at my code in 6 months: yes, I've done that in GW-BASIC. 
The code didn't work. I shelved it. When I came back fresh, the problem 
was obvious: I was using the same variable "B" for two different things. 
Doh!

c4

Jonathan Hayward wrote:
> One other comment in regard to generators...
> 
> If I remember my biology, the Y chromosome is a short one, perhaps the 
> shortest human chromosome, and it weighed in at 600M (conceivably this 
> could be compressed considerably by straightforwardly using two bits 
> rather than one byte per nucleotide). You may have a lot of memory, but 
> it could be conceivable that you could want to do things with 
> chromosome(s) that cannot easily be loaded in memory, especially with 
> two copies, one before the translation, and one afterwards.
> 
> The following pseudocode is not optimized but takes a file object 
> (opened for reading) and, piece by piece, returns the transformed 
> result, taking a fixed (i.e. O(1)) amount of memory regardless of the 
> size of the data. That is, you should theoretically be able to buy a 
> low-memory computer /at a garage sale/ and run code on this principle 
> over the entire human genome without memory constraints being an issue:
> 
> import string
> 
> def transform(filehandle, block_size=1024):
>     translation = string.maketrans("TACG", "ATGC")
>     while 1:
>         input = filehandle.read(block_size)
>         if not input:
>             return
>         yield input.translate(translation)
> 
> Are you familiar with generators? Basically, a generator is a function 
> that instead of returning once, keeps on yielding a result; an obvious 
> use-case is to take a problem that could be solved by using a large list 
> (using O(n) memory, a bit problematic if you're handling encyclopedias, 
> chromosomes, etc.), and allow another approach that uses an amount of 
> memory that is small and fixed. You don't specifically need as a 
> specification to your program that it store a whole chromosome in memory 
> at once; it's just that the most obvious solutions involve doing that, 
> and generators allow you to transform an arbitrarily large piece of 
> information while using a fixed (and, perhaps, quite low) amount of memory.

From selizondo at gmail.com  Sat Mar 13 19:47:24 2010
From: selizondo at gmail.com (Salomon Elizondo)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 12:47:24 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Perl Follow-up
In-Reply-To: <4B9BD44C.8040109@gmail.com>
References: <4B9A8DE4.3090204@gmail.com>
	<ae6584d31003121101w541763bydddabfe4cb3e40ab@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B9B265E.1050509@gmail.com>
	<fdc31b651003130546q7c2c057fpea6762e272ed5715@mail.gmail.com>
	<fdc31b651003130827w24f0724bwb9548f9edbe9c251@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B9BD44C.8040109@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5626be61003131047u2d5801c6veb78e71c0cd16640@mail.gmail.com>

I would suggest you reconsider what your end goal is, because slurping
a file in O(1) or O(n) isn't it. Search on CPAN for existing DNA
sequence modules related to your specific domain problem. For starters
look into http://search.cpan.org/~cjfields/BioPerl-1.6.1/

good luck


On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 12:07 PM, Clyde Forrester
<clydeforrester at gmail.com> wrote:
> The sort of thing you suggest is the motive for this program.
...
> The point is that with 8GB of memory, and a well focussed goal, doing it all
> in-memory is now quite feasible.
>
....

From selizondo at gmail.com  Sat Mar 13 20:00:15 2010
From: selizondo at gmail.com (Salomon Elizondo)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 13:00:15 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Perl Follow-up
In-Reply-To: <5626be61003131047u2d5801c6veb78e71c0cd16640@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B9A8DE4.3090204@gmail.com>
	<ae6584d31003121101w541763bydddabfe4cb3e40ab@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B9B265E.1050509@gmail.com>
	<fdc31b651003130546q7c2c057fpea6762e272ed5715@mail.gmail.com>
	<fdc31b651003130827w24f0724bwb9548f9edbe9c251@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B9BD44C.8040109@gmail.com>
	<5626be61003131047u2d5801c6veb78e71c0cd16640@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5626be61003131100w2eec2489k47699f2c299dce@mail.gmail.com>

ask the experts at irc://freenode.net/bioperl and more info at
http://www.open-bio.org/wiki/Main_Page



On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 12:47 PM, Salomon Elizondo <selizondo at gmail.com> wrote:
> I would suggest you reconsider what your end goal is, because slurping
> a file in O(1) or O(n) isn't it. Search on CPAN for existing DNA
> sequence modules related to your specific domain problem. For starters
> look into http://search.cpan.org/~cjfields/BioPerl-1.6.1/
>
> good luck
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 12:07 PM, Clyde Forrester
> <clydeforrester at gmail.com> wrote:
>> The sort of thing you suggest is the motive for this program.
> ...
>> The point is that with 8GB of memory, and a well focussed goal, doing it all
>> in-memory is now quite feasible.
>>
> ....
>

From christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com  Sat Mar 13 20:38:43 2010
From: christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com (Jonathan Hayward)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 13:38:43 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python and web
Message-ID: <fdc31b651003131138m1c24b911r9051a6484b1f6794@mail.gmail.com>

Could I ask a brief and informal survey:

For those of you who are using Python for the web, what are you using?
Python and bare CGI? Python and a homebrew framework? Python and Django?
Python and TurboGears? Python and something else?

-- 
? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about usability
? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward ? jonathan.hayward at pobox.com
? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux, Perl, PHP,
Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making software
and websites a joy to use
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From tal.liron at threecrickets.com  Sat Mar 13 20:44:03 2010
From: tal.liron at threecrickets.com (Tal Liron)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 13:44:03 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python and web
In-Reply-To: <fdc31b651003131138m1c24b911r9051a6484b1f6794@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fdc31b651003131138m1c24b911r9051a6484b1f6794@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B9BEB03.5010501@threecrickets.com>

For my work with crowdSPRING -- we use Django, and apparently are one of 
the bigger Django sites out there.

For my work with Three Crickets -- a home-brewed platform, Prudence, 
which is just about ready for beta status, and I hope to present it more 
fully to ChiPy folks soon.

-Tal

On 03/13/2010 01:38 PM, Jonathan Hayward wrote:
> Could I ask a brief and informal survey:
>
> For those of you who are using Python for the web, what are you using? 
> Python and bare CGI? Python and a homebrew framework? Python and 
> Django? Python and TurboGears? Python and something else?
>
> -- 
> ? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about 
> usability
> ? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward 
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward> ? 
> jonathan.hayward at pobox.com <mailto:jonathan.hayward at pobox.com>
> ? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux, Perl, 
> PHP, Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
> ? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making 
> software and websites a joy to use
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>    

From dgriff1 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 13 20:48:16 2010
From: dgriff1 at gmail.com (Daniel Griffin)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 13:48:16 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python and web
In-Reply-To: <4B9BEB03.5010501@threecrickets.com>
References: <fdc31b651003131138m1c24b911r9051a6484b1f6794@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B9BEB03.5010501@threecrickets.com>
Message-ID: <3db160681003131148t50694624l8289facdc2bfa385@mail.gmail.com>

Its very easy to roll your own. I have a base script I use that has
SQLAlchemy, Mako templates and cherrypy. I don't much like the "on rails"
style of a lot of frameworks.

Dan

On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 1:44 PM, Tal Liron <tal.liron at threecrickets.com>wrote:

> For my work with crowdSPRING -- we use Django, and apparently are one of
> the bigger Django sites out there.
>
> For my work with Three Crickets -- a home-brewed platform, Prudence, which
> is just about ready for beta status, and I hope to present it more fully to
> ChiPy folks soon.
>
> -Tal
>
>
> On 03/13/2010 01:38 PM, Jonathan Hayward wrote:
>
>> Could I ask a brief and informal survey:
>>
>> For those of you who are using Python for the web, what are you using?
>> Python and bare CGI? Python and a homebrew framework? Python and Django?
>> Python and TurboGears? Python and something else?
>>
>> --
>> ? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about
>> usability
>> ? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward <
>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward> ? jonathan.hayward at pobox.com<mailto:
>> jonathan.hayward at pobox.com>
>>
>> ? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux, Perl, PHP,
>> Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
>> ? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making software
>> and websites a joy to use
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From bob.haugen at gmail.com  Sat Mar 13 20:54:40 2010
From: bob.haugen at gmail.com (Bob Haugen)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 13:54:40 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python and web
In-Reply-To: <3db160681003131148t50694624l8289facdc2bfa385@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fdc31b651003131138m1c24b911r9051a6484b1f6794@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B9BEB03.5010501@threecrickets.com>
	<3db160681003131148t50694624l8289facdc2bfa385@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <343ecb3e1003131154j7ec8b96bu89266065652528fa@mail.gmail.com>

Django and Pinax.

In the beginning, I was new to both Python and Django and not very
experienced with Web apps.  So I liked Django and later Pinax as
training wheels (and helpful communities).

Might need to take the training wheels off sometime, but not yet.

From christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com  Sat Mar 13 20:59:34 2010
From: christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com (Jonathan Hayward)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 13:59:34 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python and web
In-Reply-To: <3db160681003131148t50694624l8289facdc2bfa385@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fdc31b651003131138m1c24b911r9051a6484b1f6794@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B9BEB03.5010501@threecrickets.com>
	<3db160681003131148t50694624l8289facdc2bfa385@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fdc31b651003131159m7c14bb1td82895945cd33674@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 1:48 PM, Daniel Griffin <dgriff1 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Its very easy to roll your own. I have a base script I use that has
> SQLAlchemy, Mako templates and cherrypy.



> I don't much like the "on rails" style of a lot of frameworks.


There was one recruiter-sponsored forum where someone asked, "What's all the
buzz about Rails? Why is it so hot?"

I was able to respond, "Because Python on Planes hasn't materialized yet."

(@All, thanks for your responses, and any future responses.)


>
> Dan
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 1:44 PM, Tal Liron <tal.liron at threecrickets.com>wrote:
>
>> For my work with crowdSPRING -- we use Django, and apparently are one of
>> the bigger Django sites out there.
>>
>> For my work with Three Crickets -- a home-brewed platform, Prudence, which
>> is just about ready for beta status, and I hope to present it more fully to
>> ChiPy folks soon.
>>
>> -Tal
>>
>>
>> On 03/13/2010 01:38 PM, Jonathan Hayward wrote:
>>
>>> Could I ask a brief and informal survey:
>>>
>>> For those of you who are using Python for the web, what are you using?
>>> Python and bare CGI? Python and a homebrew framework? Python and Django?
>>> Python and TurboGears? Python and something else?
>>>
>>> --
>>> ? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about
>>> usability
>>> ? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward <
>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward> ? jonathan.hayward at pobox.com<mailto:
>>> jonathan.hayward at pobox.com>
>>>
>>> ? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux, Perl,
>>> PHP, Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
>>> ? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making software
>>> and websites a joy to use
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>


-- 
? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about usability
? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward ? jonathan.hayward at pobox.com
? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux, Perl, PHP,
Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making software
and websites a joy to use
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From cfkarsten at gmail.com  Sat Mar 13 21:17:56 2010
From: cfkarsten at gmail.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 14:17:56 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python and web
In-Reply-To: <fdc31b651003131138m1c24b911r9051a6484b1f6794@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fdc31b651003131138m1c24b911r9051a6484b1f6794@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <549053141003131217m1d48afe5p9619f07cf42048fb@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 1:38 PM, Jonathan Hayward
<christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com> wrote:
> Could I ask a brief and informal survey:
> For those of you who are using Python for the web, what are you using?
> Python and bare CGI? Python and a homebrew framework? Python and Django?
> Python and TurboGears? Python and something else?

Django.

I am looking into using another layer on top of Django:
http://www.pinaxproject.com/

In the next month or so I will likely redo one of my sites using it.

-- 
Carl K

From varmaa at gmail.com  Sat Mar 13 22:35:55 2010
From: varmaa at gmail.com (Atul Varma)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 13:35:55 -0800
Subject: [Chicago] Python and web
In-Reply-To: <549053141003131217m1d48afe5p9619f07cf42048fb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fdc31b651003131138m1c24b911r9051a6484b1f6794@mail.gmail.com>
	<549053141003131217m1d48afe5p9619f07cf42048fb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <361b27371003131335x38e9c138x50852673bb95067d@mail.gmail.com>

I use bare WSGI (PEP 333) to implement REST APIs which are used by JS code
running in browsers.

- Atul

On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 12:17 PM, Carl Karsten <cfkarsten at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 1:38 PM, Jonathan Hayward
> <christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Could I ask a brief and informal survey:
> > For those of you who are using Python for the web, what are you using?
> > Python and bare CGI? Python and a homebrew framework? Python and Django?
> > Python and TurboGears? Python and something else?
>
> Django.
>
> I am looking into using another layer on top of Django:
> http://www.pinaxproject.com/
>
> In the next month or so I will likely redo one of my sites using it.
>
> --
> Carl K
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com  Sat Mar 13 22:38:01 2010
From: christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com (Jonathan Hayward)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 15:38:01 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python and web
In-Reply-To: <361b27371003131335x38e9c138x50852673bb95067d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fdc31b651003131138m1c24b911r9051a6484b1f6794@mail.gmail.com>
	<549053141003131217m1d48afe5p9619f07cf42048fb@mail.gmail.com>
	<361b27371003131335x38e9c138x50852673bb95067d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fdc31b651003131338r7624ff61gc66a8589d23acbb5@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you all.

On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 3:35 PM, Atul Varma <varmaa at gmail.com> wrote:

> I use bare WSGI (PEP 333) to implement REST APIs which are used by JS code
> running in browsers.
>
> - Atul
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 12:17 PM, Carl Karsten <cfkarsten at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 1:38 PM, Jonathan Hayward
>> <christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Could I ask a brief and informal survey:
>> > For those of you who are using Python for the web, what are you using?
>> > Python and bare CGI? Python and a homebrew framework? Python and Django?
>> > Python and TurboGears? Python and something else?
>>
>> Django.
>>
>> I am looking into using another layer on top of Django:
>> http://www.pinaxproject.com/
>>
>> In the next month or so I will likely redo one of my sites using it.
>>
>> --
>> Carl K
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>


-- 
? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about usability
? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward ? jonathan.hayward at pobox.com
? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux, Perl, PHP,
Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making software
and websites a joy to use
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From emperorcezar at gmail.com  Sun Mar 14 00:26:48 2010
From: emperorcezar at gmail.com (Adam Jenkins)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 17:26:48 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python and web
In-Reply-To: <fdc31b651003131138m1c24b911r9051a6484b1f6794@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fdc31b651003131138m1c24b911r9051a6484b1f6794@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <58a5f2221003131526t5ebb90ebpb9740d7e01422805@mail.gmail.com>

I've been the sole developer at the Institute of Design and using Django for
about two years now.

On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 1:38 PM, Jonathan Hayward <
christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com> wrote:

> Could I ask a brief and informal survey:
>
> For those of you who are using Python for the web, what are you using?
> Python and bare CGI? Python and a homebrew framework? Python and Django?
> Python and TurboGears? Python and something else?
>
> --
> ? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about usability
> ? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward ? jonathan.hayward at pobox.com
> ? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux, Perl, PHP,
> Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
> ? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making software
> and websites a joy to use
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From orblivion at gmail.com  Sun Mar 14 00:28:23 2010
From: orblivion at gmail.com (Dan Krol)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 17:28:23 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python and web
In-Reply-To: <fdc31b651003131159m7c14bb1td82895945cd33674@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fdc31b651003131138m1c24b911r9051a6484b1f6794@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B9BEB03.5010501@threecrickets.com>
	<3db160681003131148t50694624l8289facdc2bfa385@mail.gmail.com>
	<fdc31b651003131159m7c14bb1td82895945cd33674@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <94e10adf1003131528j39da4b25sa2cc23f242d452f5@mail.gmail.com>

> I was able to respond, "Because Python on Planes hasn't materialized yet."

Pythons on a Plane?
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From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Sun Mar 14 00:30:08 2010
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 17:30:08 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python and web
In-Reply-To: <fdc31b651003131338r7624ff61gc66a8589d23acbb5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fdc31b651003131138m1c24b911r9051a6484b1f6794@mail.gmail.com>
	<549053141003131217m1d48afe5p9619f07cf42048fb@mail.gmail.com>
	<361b27371003131335x38e9c138x50852673bb95067d@mail.gmail.com>
	<fdc31b651003131338r7624ff61gc66a8589d23acbb5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5EBA32C8-4B68-400D-9689-2F82245BDB12@cs.depaul.edu>


You said: "Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply  
about usability"
so I thought I should mention I use web2py. ;-)

Massimo



On Mar 13, 2010, at 3:38 PM, Jonathan Hayward wrote:

> Thank you all.
>
> On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 3:35 PM, Atul Varma <varmaa at gmail.com> wrote:
> I use bare WSGI (PEP 333) to implement REST APIs which are used by  
> JS code running in browsers.
>
> - Atul
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 12:17 PM, Carl Karsten <cfkarsten at gmail.com>  
> wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 1:38 PM, Jonathan Hayward
> <christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Could I ask a brief and informal survey:
> > For those of you who are using Python for the web, what are you  
> using?
> > Python and bare CGI? Python and a homebrew framework? Python and  
> Django?
> > Python and TurboGears? Python and something else?
>
> Django.
>
> I am looking into using another layer on top of Django:
> http://www.pinaxproject.com/
>
> In the next month or so I will likely redo one of my sites using it.
>
> --
> Carl K
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> ? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about  
> usability
> ? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward ? jonathan.hayward at pobox.com
> ? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux,  
> Perl, PHP, Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
> ? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making  
> software and websites a joy to use
> <ATT00001..txt>

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From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Sun Mar 14 00:39:28 2010
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 17:39:28 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] web server benchmarks
In-Reply-To: <5EBA32C8-4B68-400D-9689-2F82245BDB12@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <fdc31b651003131138m1c24b911r9051a6484b1f6794@mail.gmail.com>
	<549053141003131217m1d48afe5p9619f07cf42048fb@mail.gmail.com>
	<361b27371003131335x38e9c138x50852673bb95067d@mail.gmail.com>
	<fdc31b651003131338r7624ff61gc66a8589d23acbb5@mail.gmail.com>
	<5EBA32C8-4B68-400D-9689-2F82245BDB12@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <7C390C09-9571-4660-BEE3-526D6DFE21B8@cs.depaul.edu>

This is to let you know that web2py is considering moving away from  
cherry wsgiserver and use the rocket web server created by Timothy  
Farrell.

Rocket is posted here http://launchpad.net/rocket

Here are the motivation why we think Rocket is the best Python web  
server available:

- It is faster then cherrypy and can handle more concurrent  
connections. Here are the benchmarks
http://groups.google.com/group/web2py/attach/a04d593fb423f76f/Rocket+Benchmarks.pdf?part=2&view=1
- It is a multi-treaded server
- It runs everywhere (Tornado requires epoll for example)
- It runs with Python 2.x, 3.x and Jython.
- The source code is very easy to read compared for example with  
CherryPy.
- For HTTPS it only requires the ssl module that comes with >=2.6  
while Cherrypy does also require OpenSSL
- CheeryPy seems to truncate large files over HTTPS. We tested rocket  
in upload and download for up to 2GB files without issues.

We are still testing it. If you try it and encounter any problem  
please let me know. If you have any independent benchmark also please  
let me know.

Massimo

From christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com  Sun Mar 14 00:48:56 2010
From: christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com (Jonathan Hayward)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 17:48:56 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python and web
In-Reply-To: <5EBA32C8-4B68-400D-9689-2F82245BDB12@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <fdc31b651003131138m1c24b911r9051a6484b1f6794@mail.gmail.com>
	<549053141003131217m1d48afe5p9619f07cf42048fb@mail.gmail.com>
	<361b27371003131335x38e9c138x50852673bb95067d@mail.gmail.com>
	<fdc31b651003131338r7624ff61gc66a8589d23acbb5@mail.gmail.com>
	<5EBA32C8-4B68-400D-9689-2F82245BDB12@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <fdc31b651003131548j404be0f8w9d8cce41e71051ea@mail.gmail.com>

Good to hear from you! How are you? How is web2py progressing?

On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 5:30 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
<mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu>wrote:

>
> You said: "Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about
> usability"
> so I thought I should mention I use web2py. ;-)
>
> Massimo
>
>
>
> On Mar 13, 2010, at 3:38 PM, Jonathan Hayward wrote:
>
> Thank you all.
>
> On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 3:35 PM, Atul Varma <varmaa at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I use bare WSGI (PEP 333) to implement REST APIs which are used by JS code
>> running in browsers.
>>
>> - Atul
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 12:17 PM, Carl Karsten <cfkarsten at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 1:38 PM, Jonathan Hayward
>>> <christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > Could I ask a brief and informal survey:
>>> > For those of you who are using Python for the web, what are you using?
>>> > Python and bare CGI? Python and a homebrew framework? Python and
>>> Django?
>>> > Python and TurboGears? Python and something else?
>>>
>>> Django.
>>>
>>> I am looking into using another layer on top of Django:
>>> http://www.pinaxproject.com/
>>>
>>> In the next month or so I will likely redo one of my sites using it.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Carl K
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> ? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about usability
> ? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward ? jonathan.hayward at pobox.com
> ? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux, Perl, PHP,
> Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
> ? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making software
> and websites a joy to use
>  <ATT00001..txt>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>


-- 
? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about usability
? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward ? jonathan.hayward at pobox.com
? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux, Perl, PHP,
Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making software
and websites a joy to use
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From christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com  Sun Mar 14 00:49:49 2010
From: christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com (Jonathan Hayward)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 17:49:49 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python and web
In-Reply-To: <94e10adf1003131528j39da4b25sa2cc23f242d452f5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fdc31b651003131138m1c24b911r9051a6484b1f6794@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B9BEB03.5010501@threecrickets.com>
	<3db160681003131148t50694624l8289facdc2bfa385@mail.gmail.com>
	<fdc31b651003131159m7c14bb1td82895945cd33674@mail.gmail.com>
	<94e10adf1003131528j39da4b25sa2cc23f242d452f5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fdc31b651003131549k61975a2ex6f12c6f20d9955a2@mail.gmail.com>

spo0nman <http://disgruntle.net/> writes*"The
PythonOnPlanes<http://pythononplanes.com/> release
team has just published PythonOnPlanes-1.3.07 aka. 'the SuperSunday'
release<http://pythononplanes.com/new-release.html>.
For those in the know PythonOnPlanes is a rapid development framework for
Python which uses commonly known design patterns like ActiveRecord,
Association DataMapping, Front Controller and MVC. Our primary goal is to
provide a structured framework that enables Python users at all levels to
rapidly develop robust web applications, without any loss to
flexibility.'Major highlights in the release include Active Scrum Manager 1,
Sanity Preserver 3.13 and Lart 22.21. This is also the first release with
the *PythonOnPlanes Live CD Installer* officially debuting on the x86
platform.'"**
*
http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/01/176239

On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 5:28 PM, Dan Krol <orblivion at gmail.com> wrote:

> > I was able to respond, "Because Python on Planes hasn't materialized
> yet."
>
> Pythons on a Plane?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>


-- 
? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about usability
? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward ? jonathan.hayward at pobox.com
? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux, Perl, PHP,
Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making software
and websites a joy to use
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From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com  Sun Mar 14 21:27:13 2010
From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 15:27:13 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Python and web
In-Reply-To: <fdc31b651003131549k61975a2ex6f12c6f20d9955a2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fdc31b651003131138m1c24b911r9051a6484b1f6794@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B9BEB03.5010501@threecrickets.com>
	<3db160681003131148t50694624l8289facdc2bfa385@mail.gmail.com>
	<fdc31b651003131159m7c14bb1td82895945cd33674@mail.gmail.com>
	<94e10adf1003131528j39da4b25sa2cc23f242d452f5@mail.gmail.com>
	<fdc31b651003131549k61975a2ex6f12c6f20d9955a2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b571660a1003141327i254d77d6xbdd88b31b297517b@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 6:49 PM, Jonathan Hayward
<christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com> wrote:
> spo0nman?writes"The?PythonOnPlanes?release team has just
> published?PythonOnPlanes-1.3.07 aka. 'the SuperSunday' release. For those in
> the know PythonOnPlanes is a rapid development framework for Python which
> uses commonly known design patterns like ActiveRecord, Association
> DataMapping, Front Controller and MVC. Our primary goal is to provide a
> structured framework that enables Python users at all levels to rapidly
> develop robust web applications, without any loss to flexibility.'Major
> highlights in the release include Active Scrum Manager 1, Sanity Preserver
> 3.13 and Lart 22.21. This is also the first release with the *PythonOnPlanes
> Live CD Installer* officially debuting on the x86 platform.'"
> http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/01/176239

this sounds a lot like Pylons, which I've used quite a bit.
http://pylonshq.com/
It has upsides and downsides when compared to Django.  I really hope
someone else doesn't clone Rails -- honestly most of the things I find
unpythonic about Pylons were cloned from Rails.

> On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 5:28 PM, Dan Krol <orblivion at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > I was able to respond, "Because Python on Planes hasn't materialized
>> > yet."
>> Pythons on a Plane?
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
>
>
> --
> ? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about usability
> ? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward ? jonathan.hayward at pobox.com
> ? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux, Perl, PHP,
> Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
> ? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making software
> and websites a joy to use
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>

From seizethedave at gmail.com  Sun Mar 14 21:37:13 2010
From: seizethedave at gmail.com (David Grant)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 15:37:13 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Python and web
In-Reply-To: <fdc31b651003131138m1c24b911r9051a6484b1f6794@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fdc31b651003131138m1c24b911r9051a6484b1f6794@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <39f4b80c1003141337v63bf6f12ubd7a0bce677ce2ab@mail.gmail.com>

Mostly Python+TurboGears, and a little Python+AppEngine.

On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 2:38 PM, Jonathan Hayward <
christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com> wrote:

> Could I ask a brief and informal survey:
>
> For those of you who are using Python for the web, what are you using?
> Python and bare CGI? Python and a homebrew framework? Python and Django?
> Python and TurboGears? Python and something else?
>
> --
> ? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about usability
> ? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward ? jonathan.hayward at pobox.com
> ? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux, Perl, PHP,
> Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
> ? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making software
> and websites a joy to use
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Sun Mar 14 21:37:36 2010
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 15:37:36 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Python and web
In-Reply-To: <fdc31b651003131548j404be0f8w9d8cce41e71051ea@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fdc31b651003131138m1c24b911r9051a6484b1f6794@mail.gmail.com>
	<549053141003131217m1d48afe5p9619f07cf42048fb@mail.gmail.com>
	<361b27371003131335x38e9c138x50852673bb95067d@mail.gmail.com>
	<fdc31b651003131338r7624ff61gc66a8589d23acbb5@mail.gmail.com>
	<5EBA32C8-4B68-400D-9689-2F82245BDB12@cs.depaul.edu>
	<fdc31b651003131548j404be0f8w9d8cce41e71051ea@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D497DA84-8475-4BDD-BA49-DDFF768BEE03@cs.depaul.edu>

Hi Jonathan,

web2py is doing well.

We we have 1700 users on the mailing list and we have added lots of  
features over time. We have 2-10 commits every day. Almost all of them  
are about new features. We always managed to do so without breaking  
backward compatibility. We are now at version 1.76.5.

The big discussion on our mailing list these days is plugins. We have  
a plugin system (mostly a web interface to package a subset of an app  
and install a subset of a app). We also have a system of "components"  
i.e. sub-model-view-controllers that work as autonomous entities and  
can be embedded in pages via ajax. plugins usually define components  
(like comments, tagging, etc) but can be more general that that.

Some people are asking for new/different features. Some people want a  
strict set of rules to make sure plugins can "plug and play" without  
any tweaking (I agree with that). Some people want to re-factor the  
current system and not to allow any application subset to be a plugin  
only components. This would provide more isolation of plugins but  
limit what they can do. Other people want web2py level plugins as  
opposed to application level plugins. This would make plugins reusable  
across multiple apps but would make apps not portable and introduce  
dependencies.

We are moving to a new web server (Rocket).

We have completely re-factored the Database Abstraction Layer so that  
it is still backward compatible but much more modular and the code is  
cleaner. It will be easy to build adapters for the various NoDBs out  
there. It is in trunk but has not replaced the current DAL yet because  
needs more tests.

What's up with you?

Massimo


On Mar 13, 2010, at 5:48 PM, Jonathan Hayward wrote:

> Good to hear from you! How are you? How is web2py progressing?
>
> On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 5:30 PM, Massimo Di Pierro <mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu 
> > wrote:
>
> You said: "Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply  
> about usability"
> so I thought I should mention I use web2py. ;-)
>
> Massimo
>
>
>
> On Mar 13, 2010, at 3:38 PM, Jonathan Hayward wrote:
>
>> Thank you all.
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 3:35 PM, Atul Varma <varmaa at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I use bare WSGI (PEP 333) to implement REST APIs which are used by  
>> JS code running in browsers.
>>
>> - Atul
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 12:17 PM, Carl Karsten  
>> <cfkarsten at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 1:38 PM, Jonathan Hayward
>> <christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Could I ask a brief and informal survey:
>> > For those of you who are using Python for the web, what are you  
>> using?
>> > Python and bare CGI? Python and a homebrew framework? Python and  
>> Django?
>> > Python and TurboGears? Python and something else?
>>
>> Django.
>>
>> I am looking into using another layer on top of Django:
>> http://www.pinaxproject.com/
>>
>> In the next month or so I will likely redo one of my sites using it.
>>
>> --
>> Carl K
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> ? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about  
>> usability
>> ? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward ?  
>> jonathan.hayward at pobox.com
>> ? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux,  
>> Perl, PHP, Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
>> ? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making  
>> software and websites a joy to use
>> <ATT00001..txt>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> ? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about  
> usability
> ? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward ? jonathan.hayward at pobox.com
> ? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux,  
> Perl, PHP, Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
> ? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making  
> software and websites a joy to use
> <ATT00001..txt>

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From christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com  Sun Mar 14 21:52:29 2010
From: christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com (Jonathan Hayward)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 15:52:29 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Python and web
In-Reply-To: <D497DA84-8475-4BDD-BA49-DDFF768BEE03@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <fdc31b651003131138m1c24b911r9051a6484b1f6794@mail.gmail.com>
	<549053141003131217m1d48afe5p9619f07cf42048fb@mail.gmail.com>
	<361b27371003131335x38e9c138x50852673bb95067d@mail.gmail.com>
	<fdc31b651003131338r7624ff61gc66a8589d23acbb5@mail.gmail.com>
	<5EBA32C8-4B68-400D-9689-2F82245BDB12@cs.depaul.edu>
	<fdc31b651003131548j404be0f8w9d8cce41e71051ea@mail.gmail.com>
	<D497DA84-8475-4BDD-BA49-DDFF768BEE03@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <fdc31b651003141352u3623f5a1id449b4c6fcd0d508@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 3:37 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
<mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu>wrote:

> Hi Jonathan,
>
> web2py is doing well.
>
> We we have 1700 users on the mailing list and we have added lots of
> features over time. We have 2-10 commits every day. Almost all of them are
> about new features. We always managed to do so without breaking backward
> compatibility. We are now at version 1.76.5.
>
> The big discussion on our mailing list these days is plugins. We have a
> plugin system (mostly a web interface to package a subset of an app and
> install a subset of a app). We also have a system of "components" i.e.
> sub-model-view-controllers that work as autonomous entities and can be
> embedded in pages via ajax. plugins usually define components (like
> comments, tagging, etc) but can be more general that that.
>
> Some people are asking for new/different features. Some people want a
> strict set of rules to make sure plugins can "plug and play" without any
> tweaking (I agree with that). Some people want to re-factor the current
> system and not to allow any application subset to be a plugin only
> components. This would provide more isolation of plugins but limit what they
> can do. Other people want web2py level plugins as opposed to application
> level plugins. This would make plugins reusable across multiple apps but
> would make apps not portable and introduce dependencies.
>
> We are moving to a new web server (Rocket).
>
> We have completely re-factored the Database Abstraction Layer so that it is
> still backward compatible but much more modular and the code is cleaner. It
> will be easy to build adapters for the various NoDBs out there. It is in
> trunk but has not replaced the current DAL yet because needs more tests.
>
> What's up with you?
>
>
Right now I've been jobhunting and I may be writing a technical book soon.
I've been continuing to write for my website. Things have been a bit quiet.


> Massimo
>
>
> On Mar 13, 2010, at 5:48 PM, Jonathan Hayward wrote:
>
> Good to hear from you! How are you? How is web2py progressing?
>
> On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 5:30 PM, Massimo Di Pierro <
> mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
>
>>
>> You said: "Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about
>> usability"
>> so I thought I should mention I use web2py. ;-)
>>
>> Massimo
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 13, 2010, at 3:38 PM, Jonathan Hayward wrote:
>>
>> Thank you all.
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 3:35 PM, Atul Varma <varmaa at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I use bare WSGI (PEP 333) to implement REST APIs which are used by JS
>>> code running in browsers.
>>>
>>> - Atul
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 12:17 PM, Carl Karsten <cfkarsten at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 1:38 PM, Jonathan Hayward
>>>> <christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> > Could I ask a brief and informal survey:
>>>> > For those of you who are using Python for the web, what are you using?
>>>> > Python and bare CGI? Python and a homebrew framework? Python and
>>>> Django?
>>>> > Python and TurboGears? Python and something else?
>>>>
>>>> Django.
>>>>
>>>> I am looking into using another layer on top of Django:
>>>> http://www.pinaxproject.com/
>>>>
>>>> In the next month or so I will likely redo one of my sites using it.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Carl K
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about
>> usability
>> ? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward ? jonathan.hayward at pobox.com
>> ? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux, Perl, PHP,
>> Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
>> ? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making software
>> and websites a joy to use
>>  <ATT00001..txt>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> ? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about usability
> ? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward ? jonathan.hayward at pobox.com
> ? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux, Perl, PHP,
> Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
> ? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making software
> and websites a joy to use
> <ATT00001..txt>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>


-- 
? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about usability
? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward ? jonathan.hayward at pobox.com
? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux, Perl, PHP,
Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making software
and websites a joy to use
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From christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com  Sun Mar 14 22:55:36 2010
From: christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com (Jonathan Hayward)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 16:55:36 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Python and web
In-Reply-To: <fdc31b651003141352u3623f5a1id449b4c6fcd0d508@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fdc31b651003131138m1c24b911r9051a6484b1f6794@mail.gmail.com>
	<549053141003131217m1d48afe5p9619f07cf42048fb@mail.gmail.com>
	<361b27371003131335x38e9c138x50852673bb95067d@mail.gmail.com>
	<fdc31b651003131338r7624ff61gc66a8589d23acbb5@mail.gmail.com>
	<5EBA32C8-4B68-400D-9689-2F82245BDB12@cs.depaul.edu>
	<fdc31b651003131548j404be0f8w9d8cce41e71051ea@mail.gmail.com>
	<D497DA84-8475-4BDD-BA49-DDFF768BEE03@cs.depaul.edu>
	<fdc31b651003141352u3623f5a1id449b4c6fcd0d508@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fdc31b651003141455vf83b05cu7c6c4109d43197af@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 3:52 PM, Jonathan Hayward <
christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 3:37 PM, Massimo Di Pierro <
> mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
>
>> Hi Jonathan,
>>
>> web2py is doing well.
>>
>> We we have 1700 users on the mailing list and we have added lots of
>> features over time. We have 2-10 commits every day. Almost all of them are
>> about new features. We always managed to do so without breaking backward
>> compatibility. We are now at version 1.76.5.
>>
>> The big discussion on our mailing list these days is plugins. We have a
>> plugin system (mostly a web interface to package a subset of an app and
>> install a subset of a app). We also have a system of "components" i.e.
>> sub-model-view-controllers that work as autonomous entities and can be
>> embedded in pages via ajax. plugins usually define components (like
>> comments, tagging, etc) but can be more general that that.
>>
>> Some people are asking for new/different features. Some people want a
>> strict set of rules to make sure plugins can "plug and play" without any
>> tweaking (I agree with that). Some people want to re-factor the current
>> system and not to allow any application subset to be a plugin only
>> components. This would provide more isolation of plugins but limit what they
>> can do. Other people want web2py level plugins as opposed to application
>> level plugins. This would make plugins reusable across multiple apps but
>> would make apps not portable and introduce dependencies.
>>
>> We are moving to a new web server (Rocket).
>>
>> We have completely re-factored the Database Abstraction Layer so that it
>> is still backward compatible but much more modular and the code is cleaner.
>> It will be easy to build adapters for the various NoDBs out there. It is in
>> trunk but has not replaced the current DAL yet because needs more tests.
>>
>> What's up with you?
>>
>>
> Right now I've been jobhunting and I may be writing a technical book soon.
> I've been continuing to write for my website. Things have been a bit quiet.
>

P.S. My website is at http://JonathansCorner.com/ , with an open source
section at http://JonathansCorner.com/open-source/ . The most recent posting
to the website as a whole is an akathist hymn to St. Philaret, at
http://JonathansCorner.com/philaret/ .


>
>
>> Massimo
>>
>>
>> On Mar 13, 2010, at 5:48 PM, Jonathan Hayward wrote:
>>
>> Good to hear from you! How are you? How is web2py progressing?
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 5:30 PM, Massimo Di Pierro <
>> mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> You said: "Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply
>>> about usability"
>>> so I thought I should mention I use web2py. ;-)
>>>
>>> Massimo
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 13, 2010, at 3:38 PM, Jonathan Hayward wrote:
>>>
>>> Thank you all.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 3:35 PM, Atul Varma <varmaa at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I use bare WSGI (PEP 333) to implement REST APIs which are used by JS
>>>> code running in browsers.
>>>>
>>>> - Atul
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 12:17 PM, Carl Karsten <cfkarsten at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 1:38 PM, Jonathan Hayward
>>>>> <christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> > Could I ask a brief and informal survey:
>>>>> > For those of you who are using Python for the web, what are you
>>>>> using?
>>>>> > Python and bare CGI? Python and a homebrew framework? Python and
>>>>> Django?
>>>>> > Python and TurboGears? Python and something else?
>>>>>
>>>>> Django.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am looking into using another layer on top of Django:
>>>>> http://www.pinaxproject.com/
>>>>>
>>>>> In the next month or so I will likely redo one of my sites using it.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Carl K
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about
>>> usability
>>> ? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward ? jonathan.hayward at pobox.com
>>> ? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux, Perl,
>>> PHP, Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
>>> ? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making software
>>> and websites a joy to use
>>>  <ATT00001..txt>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about
>> usability
>> ? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward ? jonathan.hayward at pobox.com
>> ? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux, Perl, PHP,
>> Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
>> ? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making software
>> and websites a joy to use
>> <ATT00001..txt>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> ? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about usability
> ? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward ? jonathan.hayward at pobox.com
> ? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux, Perl, PHP,
> Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
> ? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making software
> and websites a joy to use
>



-- 
? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about usability
? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward ? jonathan.hayward at pobox.com
? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux, Perl, PHP,
Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making software
and websites a joy to use
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From tonkinjs at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 16 08:01:33 2010
From: tonkinjs at yahoo.com (Jonathan Tonkin)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 00:01:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago] Several items that may be of interest to group members
Message-ID: <294821.1451.qm@web111306.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hello,

While this may not be directly related to group topics, here are several items that may be of interest to group members.

1.) (shortest first) The Chicago Chapter of the ACM is now on Facebook and Twitter.? Join our Facebook Group (http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=59120137059) or follow us on Twitter (username:? chicagoacm).

2.)? Next ACM Meeting: March 17, 2010 

A joint meeting with the Loyola University Computer Science Department

Speaker: Dean Wampler, Ph.D.

"Polyglot and Polyparadigm Programming"

Wednesday, Mar. 17, 2010, 6:30 pm
5:30 pm -6:30 pm (Social Hour)

Loyola University Water Tower Campus (Chicago/Michigan Area)
820 N. Michigan, Chicago IL 60611
Beane Ballroom (13th Floor, Lewis Towers)

Campus map: http://www.luc.edu/about/pdfs/wtc_may09.pdf 

Admission: Free (General Admission, No Reserved Seats)

Reservations:
To make a reservation, use this form:
(http://spreadsheets.google.com/a/chicagoacm.org/viewform?formkey=dElJS2Y1ZHBmS0hyYjUwOG0yS0YtVHc6MA)
or send an e-mail to greg at neumarke.net. 

About the Topic:

Is one language and one modularity "paradigm" right for your entire application? This talk argues that modern applications are easier to implement and evolve when they combine appropriately-chosen programming languages and paradigms. 

About the Speaker: 

Dean Wampler, Ph.D., is the co-author of "Programming Scala" (O'Reilly) and a software developer for DRW Holdings in Chicago. He writes about Polyglot Programming at polyglotprogramming.com and he speaks at conferences on this topic. This interest lead to the forthcoming special issue of IEEE Software on "Multiparadigm Programming" (Sept-Oct 2010), for which he is a guest editor. He is also the founder of the Chicago-Area Scala Enthusiasts. He created two open-source projects, Aquarium, an AOP library for Ruby, and Contract4J, a Design-by-Contract library for Java.

More details at: http://www.chicagoacm.org/


Thanks,

Jonathan Tonkin 



      
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From pfein at pobox.com  Wed Mar 17 19:20:37 2010
From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 13:20:37 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Next Month
Message-ID: <44194495-B657-4368-B1E4-67343DB4D911@pobox.com>

Hiya-

I'd like to give a longer version (1/2 hour) of my Pycon lightning talk about Please Pirate. You can find a screencast at http://pleasepirate.org, or the live one at http://pycon.blip.tv/file/3332814/ (at 13:26 or so)

Anybody else want to talk about pycon things? Or anything else?

--Pete

From brianherman at gmail.com  Wed Mar 17 20:17:15 2010
From: brianherman at gmail.com (Brian Herman)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 14:17:15 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Next Month
In-Reply-To: <44194495-B657-4368-B1E4-67343DB4D911@pobox.com>
References: <44194495-B657-4368-B1E4-67343DB4D911@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <4ef15ddc1003171217y3e4e7f6ev9deda9c79a70279c@mail.gmail.com>

How is this python related do they use python at all?

On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 1:20 PM, Pete <pfein at pobox.com> wrote:

> Hiya-
>
> I'd like to give a longer version (1/2 hour) of my Pycon lightning talk
> about Please Pirate. You can find a screencast at http://pleasepirate.org,
> or the live one at http://pycon.blip.tv/file/3332814/ (at 13:26 or so)
>
> Anybody else want to talk about pycon things? Or anything else?
>
> --Pete
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
_________________________________
Thank You,
Brian Herman
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From MDiPierro at cs.depaul.edu  Thu Mar 18 05:16:40 2010
From: MDiPierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 23:16:40 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Flourish 2010
Message-ID: <6FDD9EB3-5723-432E-836C-A93B675E47B5@cs.depaul.edu>

In case you missed it

    http://www.flourishconf.com/flourish2010/

is this Friday and Saturday. It is free but you must register.

There will be workshops on Plone, Open Source Video (Carl), web2py  
(guess how?), and Git.

There will be a web2py programming spring although it is not clear  
what to built so if you have ideas please let us know.

Massimo

From christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com  Thu Mar 18 05:20:29 2010
From: christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com (Jonathan Hayward)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 23:20:29 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Emacs/vim whitespace question
Message-ID: <fdc31b651003172120g319ead22i68eee77ef87dace1@mail.gmail.com>

In vim you want a few settings in your vimrc to handle Python and in
particular to avoid annoying behavior. Turning on autoindent alone leaves
you subject to a nasty surprise re: significant whitespace. If you edit
existing code indented in one part to eight spaces, and append a line below
it, vim's default behavior at least in the past has been to indent an
"equivalent" equal to one tab, resulting in the Python compiler complaining
about not matching a previous indent.

Are there any inappropriate behaviors like this in an unconfigured emacs,
and if so, could I have appropriate settings material to say "Be nice to
Python"?

-- 
? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about usability
? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward ? jonathan.hayward at pobox.com
? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux, Perl, PHP,
Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making software
and websites a joy to use
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From tottinge at gmail.com  Thu Mar 18 13:48:34 2010
From: tottinge at gmail.com (Tim Ottinger)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 07:48:34 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Emacs/vim whitespace question
In-Reply-To: <fdc31b651003172120g319ead22i68eee77ef87dace1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fdc31b651003172120g319ead22i68eee77ef87dace1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a975a1ef1003180548l26ead3albf3d59233e8977c8@mail.gmail.com>

Ror the record, in vim:   set autoindent smartindent tabstop=9 shiftwidth=4
expandtab shiftround
Works for me.
-- 
-------------------------------------
http://agileinaflash.com/
http://agileotter.blogspot.com/
http://tottinge.blogsome.com
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From brian.curtin at gmail.com  Thu Mar 18 15:06:55 2010
From: brian.curtin at gmail.com (Brian Curtin)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 09:06:55 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Next Month
In-Reply-To: <44194495-B657-4368-B1E4-67343DB4D911@pobox.com>
References: <44194495-B657-4368-B1E4-67343DB4D911@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <cf9f31f21003180706r5067c7b4y27ef6a9a4ad72bae@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 13:20, Pete <pfein at pobox.com> wrote:

> Hiya-
>
> I'd like to give a longer version (1/2 hour) of my Pycon lightning talk
> about Please Pirate. You can find a screencast at http://pleasepirate.org,
> or the live one at http://pycon.blip.tv/file/3332814/ (at 13:26 or so)
>
> Anybody else want to talk about pycon things? Or anything else?
>
>

I don't know how closely ChiPy people follow CPython development, but I
could put together a talk on what's coming up in 2.7. The alphas are over
and the first beta drops early next month.

It's kind of related to PyCon in that I'd end up summarizing a few of the
talks, eg. the unittest talk.
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From g at rre.tt  Thu Mar 18 15:58:17 2010
From: g at rre.tt (Garrett Smith)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 09:58:17 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Next Month
In-Reply-To: <cf9f31f21003180706r5067c7b4y27ef6a9a4ad72bae@mail.gmail.com>
References: <44194495-B657-4368-B1E4-67343DB4D911@pobox.com>
	<cf9f31f21003180706r5067c7b4y27ef6a9a4ad72bae@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8555D29B-6E79-457D-97C3-2679DCDF3934@rre.tt>

A pycon show and tell topic could support a variety of shortish  
presentations and I think be very interesting. Sort of, "here's what I  
saw/presented and why it's cool/important."


On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:06 AM, Brian Curtin <brian.curtin at gmail.com>  
wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 13:20, Pete <pfein at pobox.com> wrote:
> Hiya-
>
> I'd like to give a longer version (1/2 hour) of my Pycon lightning  
> talk about Please Pirate. You can find a screencast at http://pleasepirate.org 
> , or the live one at http://pycon.blip.tv/file/3332814/ (at 13:26 or  
> so)
>
> Anybody else want to talk about pycon things? Or anything else?
>
>
> I don't know how closely ChiPy people follow CPython development,  
> but I could put together a talk on what's coming up in 2.7. The  
> alphas are over and the first beta drops early next month.
>
> It's kind of related to PyCon in that I'd end up summarizing a few  
> of the talks, eg. the unittest talk.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
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From selizondo at gmail.com  Thu Mar 18 16:21:02 2010
From: selizondo at gmail.com (Salomon Elizondo)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 10:21:02 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Next Month
In-Reply-To: <8555D29B-6E79-457D-97C3-2679DCDF3934@rre.tt>
References: <44194495-B657-4368-B1E4-67343DB4D911@pobox.com>
	<cf9f31f21003180706r5067c7b4y27ef6a9a4ad72bae@mail.gmail.com>
	<8555D29B-6E79-457D-97C3-2679DCDF3934@rre.tt>
Message-ID: <5626be61003180821h742e83bka3a3dc1e7881d3d7@mail.gmail.com>

a deconstructed Pycon would be nice for those of us who didn't attend
this time around.

On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 9:58 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
> A pycon show and tell topic could support a variety of shortish
> presentations and I think be very interesting. Sort of, "here's what I
> saw/presented and why it's cool/important."

From pfein at pobox.com  Thu Mar 18 16:57:25 2010
From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 10:57:25 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Flourish 2010
In-Reply-To: <6FDD9EB3-5723-432E-836C-A93B675E47B5@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <6FDD9EB3-5723-432E-836C-A93B675E47B5@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <0215F307-D1D7-4A18-B17D-603C94E3EB04@pobox.com>

They're looking for speakers for lightning talks on Saturday fwiw.

On Mar 17, 2010, at 11:16 PM, Massimo Di Pierro wrote:

> In case you missed it
> 
>   http://www.flourishconf.com/flourish2010/
> 
> is this Friday and Saturday. It is free but you must register.
> 
> There will be workshops on Plone, Open Source Video (Carl), web2py (guess how?), and Git.
> 
> There will be a web2py programming spring although it is not clear what to built so if you have ideas please let us know.
> 
> Massimo
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From alex.gaynor at gmail.com  Thu Mar 18 17:10:38 2010
From: alex.gaynor at gmail.com (Alex Gaynor)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 12:10:38 -0400
Subject: [Chicago] Next Month
In-Reply-To: <5626be61003180821h742e83bka3a3dc1e7881d3d7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <44194495-B657-4368-B1E4-67343DB4D911@pobox.com>
	<cf9f31f21003180706r5067c7b4y27ef6a9a4ad72bae@mail.gmail.com>
	<8555D29B-6E79-457D-97C3-2679DCDF3934@rre.tt>
	<5626be61003180821h742e83bka3a3dc1e7881d3d7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ae6584d31003180910x341a16ckb0267d9f52176728@mail.gmail.com>

On Mar 18, 2010 11:21 AM, "Salomon Elizondo" <selizondo at gmail.com> wrote:

a deconstructed Pycon would be nice for those of us who didn't attend
this time around.


On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 9:58 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
> A pycon show and tell topic coul...

_______________________________________________
Chicago mailing list
Chicago at python.org
http://mail....
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From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Thu Mar 18 17:14:51 2010
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 11:14:51 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Next Month
In-Reply-To: <ae6584d31003180910x341a16ckb0267d9f52176728@mail.gmail.com>
References: <44194495-B657-4368-B1E4-67343DB4D911@pobox.com>
	<cf9f31f21003180706r5067c7b4y27ef6a9a4ad72bae@mail.gmail.com>
	<8555D29B-6E79-457D-97C3-2679DCDF3934@rre.tt>
	<5626be61003180821h742e83bka3a3dc1e7881d3d7@mail.gmail.com>
	<ae6584d31003180910x341a16ckb0267d9f52176728@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ED049C16-9DC9-46C7-9D1F-3FBD85478ECD@cs.depaul.edu>

+1

On Mar 18, 2010, at 11:10 AM, Alex Gaynor wrote:

>
>> On Mar 18, 2010 11:21 AM, "Salomon Elizondo" <selizondo at gmail.com>  
>> wrote:
>>
>> a deconstructed Pycon would be nice for those of us who didn't attend
>> this time around.
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 9:58 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
>> > A pycon show and tell topic coul...
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail....
>>
>
> <ATT00001..txt>

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From christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com  Thu Mar 18 19:51:47 2010
From: christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com (Jonathan Hayward)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 13:51:47 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Emacs/vim whitespace question
In-Reply-To: <a975a1ef1003180548l26ead3albf3d59233e8977c8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fdc31b651003172120g319ead22i68eee77ef87dace1@mail.gmail.com>
	<a975a1ef1003180548l26ead3albf3d59233e8977c8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fdc31b651003181151y731bc8c2n60c862f189c610b6@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you. Emacs users' comments?

On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 7:48 AM, Tim Ottinger <tottinge at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Ror the record, in vim:   set autoindent smartindent tabstop=9 shiftwidth=4
> expandtab shiftround
> Works for me.
> --
> -------------------------------------
> http://agileinaflash.com/
> http://agileotter.blogspot.com/
> http://tottinge.blogsome.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>


-- 
? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about usability
? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward ? jonathan.hayward at pobox.com
? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux, Perl, PHP,
Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making software
and websites a joy to use
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From samir at esamir.com  Thu Mar 18 20:01:27 2010
From: samir at esamir.com (Samir Faci)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 14:01:27 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Emacs/vim whitespace question
In-Reply-To: <fdc31b651003181151y731bc8c2n60c862f189c610b6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fdc31b651003172120g319ead22i68eee77ef87dace1@mail.gmail.com>
	<a975a1ef1003180548l26ead3albf3d59233e8977c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<fdc31b651003181151y731bc8c2n60c862f189c610b6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9db93b0e1003181201r2d36b4cdudb085d37cc9c306e@mail.gmail.com>

<mandatory troll>  I'll let you know as soon as my emacs finishes
booting. </mandatory troll>

I haven't used emacs personally but maybe this would be helpful.

http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/PythonMode



On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 1:51 PM, Jonathan Hayward
<christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thank you. Emacs users' comments?
>
> On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 7:48 AM, Tim Ottinger <tottinge at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Ror the record, in vim:?? set autoindent smartindent tabstop=9
>> shiftwidth=4 expandtab shiftround
>> Works for me.
>> --
>> -------------------------------------
>> http://agileinaflash.com/
>> http://agileotter.blogspot.com/
>> http://tottinge.blogsome.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
>
>
> --
> ? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about usability
> ? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward ? jonathan.hayward at pobox.com
> ? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux, Perl, PHP,
> Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
> ? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making software
> and websites a joy to use
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>



-- 
--
Samir Faci
*insert title*
fortune | cowsay -f /usr/share/cows/tux.cow

From chad at glendenin.com  Thu Mar 18 20:06:39 2010
From: chad at glendenin.com (Chad Glendenin)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 14:06:39 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Emacs/vim whitespace question
In-Reply-To: <a975a1ef1003180548l26ead3albf3d59233e8977c8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fdc31b651003172120g319ead22i68eee77ef87dace1@mail.gmail.com>
	<a975a1ef1003180548l26ead3albf3d59233e8977c8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <191d03ff1003181206l6929626al402858c8d2604350@mail.gmail.com>

There's a vim plugin, python.vim, that is smarter about PEP8 and
indentation than the default Python mode. I usually turn off
smartindent and cindent in vim python buffers (autocmd BufRead *.py
set nocindent nosmartindent autoindent) just because something in
there was deleting all leading whitespace in front of '#' characters,
forcing comments over to the left column. I never spent the time to
figure out exacting what was happening, but I think it's assuming
they're C preprocessor macros or something.

ccg


On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 7:48 AM, Tim Ottinger <tottinge at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Ror the record, in vim:?? set autoindent smartindent tabstop=9 shiftwidth=4
> expandtab shiftround
> Works for me.
> --
> -------------------------------------
> http://agileinaflash.com/
> http://agileotter.blogspot.com/
> http://tottinge.blogsome.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>

From christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com  Thu Mar 18 20:37:59 2010
From: christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com (Jonathan Hayward)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 14:37:59 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Emacs/vim whitespace question
In-Reply-To: <9db93b0e1003181201r2d36b4cdudb085d37cc9c306e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fdc31b651003172120g319ead22i68eee77ef87dace1@mail.gmail.com>
	<a975a1ef1003180548l26ead3albf3d59233e8977c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<fdc31b651003181151y731bc8c2n60c862f189c610b6@mail.gmail.com>
	<9db93b0e1003181201r2d36b4cdudb085d37cc9c306e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fdc31b651003181237i154f3735r60fa5dcf07c46070@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/EndorsedByAAOS

I'm a vim user myself; I just wanted to know what was/wasn't required for
both editors.

On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 2:01 PM, Samir Faci <samir at esamir.com> wrote:

> <mandatory troll>  I'll let you know as soon as my emacs finishes
> booting. </mandatory troll>
>
> I haven't used emacs personally but maybe this would be helpful.
>
> http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/PythonMode
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 1:51 PM, Jonathan Hayward
> <christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Thank you. Emacs users' comments?
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 7:48 AM, Tim Ottinger <tottinge at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Ror the record, in vim:   set autoindent smartindent tabstop=9
> >> shiftwidth=4 expandtab shiftround
> >> Works for me.
> >> --
> >> -------------------------------------
> >> http://agileinaflash.com/
> >> http://agileotter.blogspot.com/
> >> http://tottinge.blogsome.com
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Chicago mailing list
> >> Chicago at python.org
> >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > ? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about
> usability
> > ? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward ? jonathan.hayward at pobox.com
> > ? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux, Perl,
> PHP,
> > Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
> > ? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making software
> > and websites a joy to use
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> --
> Samir Faci
> *insert title*
> fortune | cowsay -f /usr/share/cows/tux.cow
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about usability
? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward ? jonathan.hayward at pobox.com
? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux, Perl, PHP,
Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making software
and websites a joy to use
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From emperorcezar at gmail.com  Thu Mar 18 20:44:17 2010
From: emperorcezar at gmail.com (Adam Jenkins)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 14:44:17 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Emacs/vim whitespace question
In-Reply-To: <fdc31b651003172120g319ead22i68eee77ef87dace1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fdc31b651003172120g319ead22i68eee77ef87dace1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <58a5f2221003181244i26667d9co53e07ee101eeb967@mail.gmail.com>

I use emacs all day ever day for work in Django. In my experience, the
default emacs mode works quite well.

On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 11:20 PM, Jonathan Hayward <
christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com> wrote:

> In vim you want a few settings in your vimrc to handle Python and in
> particular to avoid annoying behavior. Turning on autoindent alone leaves
> you subject to a nasty surprise re: significant whitespace. If you edit
> existing code indented in one part to eight spaces, and append a line below
> it, vim's default behavior at least in the past has been to indent an
> "equivalent" equal to one tab, resulting in the Python compiler complaining
> about not matching a previous indent.
>
> Are there any inappropriate behaviors like this in an unconfigured emacs,
> and if so, could I have appropriate settings material to say "Be nice to
> Python"?
>
> --
> ? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about usability
> ? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward ? jonathan.hayward at pobox.com
> ? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux, Perl, PHP,
> Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
> ? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making software
> and websites a joy to use
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com  Thu Mar 18 20:47:56 2010
From: christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com (Jonathan Hayward)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 14:47:56 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Emacs/vim whitespace question
In-Reply-To: <58a5f2221003181244i26667d9co53e07ee101eeb967@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fdc31b651003172120g319ead22i68eee77ef87dace1@mail.gmail.com>
	<58a5f2221003181244i26667d9co53e07ee101eeb967@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fdc31b651003181247y24ffeadby967881ca8b6c045b@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you!

On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 2:44 PM, Adam Jenkins <emperorcezar at gmail.com>wrote:

> I use emacs all day ever day for work in Django. In my experience, the
> default emacs mode works quite well.
>
> On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 11:20 PM, Jonathan Hayward <
> christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> In vim you want a few settings in your vimrc to handle Python and in
>> particular to avoid annoying behavior. Turning on autoindent alone leaves
>> you subject to a nasty surprise re: significant whitespace. If you edit
>> existing code indented in one part to eight spaces, and append a line below
>> it, vim's default behavior at least in the past has been to indent an
>> "equivalent" equal to one tab, resulting in the Python compiler complaining
>> about not matching a previous indent.
>>
>> Are there any inappropriate behaviors like this in an unconfigured emacs,
>> and if so, could I have appropriate settings material to say "Be nice to
>> Python"?
>>
>> --
>> ? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about
>> usability
>> ? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward ? jonathan.hayward at pobox.com
>> ? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux, Perl, PHP,
>> Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
>> ? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making software
>> and websites a joy to use
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>


-- 
? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about usability
? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward ? jonathan.hayward at pobox.com
? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux, Perl, PHP,
Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making software
and websites a joy to use
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From christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com  Fri Mar 19 15:54:51 2010
From: christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com (Jonathan Hayward)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 09:54:51 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] falsy objects?
Message-ID: <fdc31b651003190754w419eca90wb11aaec180194a89@mail.gmail.com>

There was something I thought I'd read but couldn't track down in the
documentation.

User-defined classes normally evaluate to true, i.e. if you define:

class foo:
    pass

bar = foo()

if bar:
    print "True"
else:
    print "False"

then the output will be "True", and adding real functionality to foo does
not change this.

I thought there was supposed to be a method you could define that would
override this behavior, named something like is_true() or __is_true__(), so
that an object could be set to evaluate to false. However, looking through
the documentation did not confirm anything like:

class foo:
    def is_true(self):
        return False

bar = foo()

if bar:
    print "True"
else:
    print "False"

which would print "False".

Is there such a method that can be defined, or is it non-negotiable that a
user-defined class (which does not extend a class that can be falsy) will
evaluate to true?

-- 
? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about usability
? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward ? jonathan.hayward at pobox.com
? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux, Perl, PHP,
Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making software
and websites a joy to use
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From dgriff1 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 19 16:01:12 2010
From: dgriff1 at gmail.com (Daniel Griffin)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 10:01:12 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] falsy objects?
In-Reply-To: <fdc31b651003190754w419eca90wb11aaec180194a89@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fdc31b651003190754w419eca90wb11aaec180194a89@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3db160681003190801k16aa5655ra6c1514241df7821@mail.gmail.com>

I think you are looking for __nonzero__ and __bool__ and the evaluation of
them is different between versions of python. A quick google search doesnt
show anything promising but those are the interfaces I think.


On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 9:54 AM, Jonathan Hayward <
christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com> wrote:

> There was something I thought I'd read but couldn't track down in the
> documentation.
>
> User-defined classes normally evaluate to true, i.e. if you define:
>
> class foo:
>     pass
>
> bar = foo()
>
> if bar:
>     print "True"
> else:
>     print "False"
>
> then the output will be "True", and adding real functionality to foo does
> not change this.
>
> I thought there was supposed to be a method you could define that would
> override this behavior, named something like is_true() or __is_true__(), so
> that an object could be set to evaluate to false. However, looking through
> the documentation did not confirm anything like:
>
> class foo:
>     def is_true(self):
>         return False
>
> bar = foo()
>
> if bar:
>     print "True"
> else:
>     print "False"
>
> which would print "False".
>
> Is there such a method that can be defined, or is it non-negotiable that a
> user-defined class (which does not extend a class that can be falsy) will
> evaluate to true?
>
> --
> ? Jonathan Hayward, a Senior Web Developer who cares deeply about usability
> ? www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward ? jonathan.hayward at pobox.com
> ? Ajax, CGI, CMS, CSS, HTML, IA, JSON, JavaScript, LAMP, Linux, Perl, PHP,
> Python, SQL, UI, Unix, Usability, UX, XHTML, XML
> ? With a good interest in the human side of computing and making software
> and websites a joy to use
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From ed at leafe.com  Fri Mar 19 15:57:40 2010
From: ed at leafe.com (Ed Leafe)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 10:57:40 -0400
Subject: [Chicago] falsy objects?
In-Reply-To: <fdc31b651003190754w419eca90wb11aaec180194a89@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fdc31b651003190754w419eca90wb11aaec180194a89@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <15FD786D-510C-41FA-A1C8-965B6FFBBC8D@leafe.com>

On Mar 19, 2010, at 10:54 AM, Jonathan Hayward wrote:

> Is there such a method that can be defined, or is it non-negotiable that a user-defined class (which does not extend a class that can be falsy) will evaluate to true?

	Use the __nonzero__() method to determine how an object should evaluate for boolean comparisons.


-- Ed Leafe




From bray at sent.com  Fri Mar 19 16:04:17 2010
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 10:04:17 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] falsy objects?
In-Reply-To: <fdc31b651003190754w419eca90wb11aaec180194a89@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fdc31b651003190754w419eca90wb11aaec180194a89@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <835C1117-F928-41E7-A1E0-943582645C80@sent.com>

You probably want to look at truth operator overloading http://docs.python.org/library/operator.html

On a side note, you may also want to look into Mock object helpers http://python-mock.sourceforge.net/ 
  depending on what your trying to do. They are useful on several  
levels, but the mock library itself needs to do things like truth  
testing.

Brian Ray




From kenschutte at gmail.com  Fri Mar 19 16:07:22 2010
From: kenschutte at gmail.com (Ken Schutte)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 10:07:22 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] falsy objects?
In-Reply-To: <835C1117-F928-41E7-A1E0-943582645C80@sent.com>
References: <fdc31b651003190754w419eca90wb11aaec180194a89@mail.gmail.com>
	<835C1117-F928-41E7-A1E0-943582645C80@sent.com>
Message-ID: <a61341851003190807x6244a0d8x6c5e19649204160b@mail.gmail.com>

As others said, "__nonzero__" will do it.  The relevant docs are here:
http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html#truth-value-testing

Ken


On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 10:04 AM, Brian Ray <bray at sent.com> wrote:
> You probably want to look at truth operator overloading
> http://docs.python.org/library/operator.html
>
> On a side note, you may also want to look into Mock object helpers
> http://python-mock.sourceforge.net/ depending on what your trying to do.
> They are useful on several levels, but the mock library itself needs to do
> things like truth testing.
>
> Brian Ray
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From brianherman at gmail.com  Sat Mar 20 02:31:46 2010
From: brianherman at gmail.com (Brian Herman)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 20:31:46 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Google Python Class
Message-ID: <4ef15ddc1003191831o3275f43eh45aa84383b1e732@mail.gmail.com>

How many of us will pass the class?
http://code.google.com/edu/languages/google-python-class/

-- 
_________________________________
Thank You,
Brian Herman
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From maney at two14.net  Sun Mar 21 04:03:19 2010
From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 22:03:19 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Google Python Class
In-Reply-To: <4ef15ddc1003191831o3275f43eh45aa84383b1e732@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4ef15ddc1003191831o3275f43eh45aa84383b1e732@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100321030319.GA11511@furrr.two14.net>

On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 08:31:46PM -0500, Brian Herman wrote:
> How many of us will pass the class?
> http://code.google.com/edu/languages/google-python-class/

class Google(object):
    "I'm not feeling very energetic right now"

    pass

-- 
The true danger is when liberty is nibbled away,
for expedients, and by parts.  -- Edmund Burke


From brianherman at gmail.com  Sun Mar 21 04:41:44 2010
From: brianherman at gmail.com (Brian Herman)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 21:41:44 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Google Python Class
In-Reply-To: <20100321030319.GA11511@furrr.two14.net>
References: <4ef15ddc1003191831o3275f43eh45aa84383b1e732@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20100321030319.GA11511@furrr.two14.net>
Message-ID: <4ef15ddc1003202041r2b1434e3wfa4ee727462160aa@mail.gmail.com>

That was good.

On Sat, Mar 20, 2010 at 9:03 PM, Martin Maney <maney at two14.net> wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 08:31:46PM -0500, Brian Herman wrote:
> > How many of us will pass the class?
> > http://code.google.com/edu/languages/google-python-class/
>
> class Google(object):
>    "I'm not feeling very energetic right now"
>
>    pass
>
> --
> The true danger is when liberty is nibbled away,
> for expedients, and by parts.  -- Edmund Burke
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
_________________________________
Thank You,
Brian Herman
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From jsudlow at gmail.com  Mon Mar 22 02:16:21 2010
From: jsudlow at gmail.com (Jon Sudlow)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 20:16:21 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Google Python Class
In-Reply-To: <4ef15ddc1003202041r2b1434e3wfa4ee727462160aa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4ef15ddc1003191831o3275f43eh45aa84383b1e732@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100321030319.GA11511@furrr.two14.net>
	<4ef15ddc1003202041r2b1434e3wfa4ee727462160aa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <eb9a21ad1003211816w2be686f7k5297123b80a66ae9@mail.gmail.com>

I believe I could pass it

On Sat, Mar 20, 2010 at 10:41 PM, Brian Herman <brianherman at gmail.com>wrote:

> That was good.
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 20, 2010 at 9:03 PM, Martin Maney <maney at two14.net> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 08:31:46PM -0500, Brian Herman wrote:
>> > How many of us will pass the class?
>> > http://code.google.com/edu/languages/google-python-class/
>>
>> class Google(object):
>>    "I'm not feeling very energetic right now"
>>
>>    pass
>>
>> --
>> The true danger is when liberty is nibbled away,
>> for expedients, and by parts.  -- Edmund Burke
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
>
>
> --
> _________________________________
> Thank You,
> Brian Herman
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From brianherman at gmail.com  Mon Mar 22 02:18:39 2010
From: brianherman at gmail.com (Brian Herman)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 20:18:39 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Google Python Class
In-Reply-To: <eb9a21ad1003211816w2be686f7k5297123b80a66ae9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4ef15ddc1003191831o3275f43eh45aa84383b1e732@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20100321030319.GA11511@furrr.two14.net>
	<4ef15ddc1003202041r2b1434e3wfa4ee727462160aa@mail.gmail.com> 
	<eb9a21ad1003211816w2be686f7k5297123b80a66ae9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ef15ddc1003211818o6a7e3003o10abd54849c70bd3@mail.gmail.com>

Martin already received an A.

On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 8:16 PM, Jon Sudlow <jsudlow at gmail.com> wrote:

> I believe I could pass it
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 20, 2010 at 10:41 PM, Brian Herman <brianherman at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> That was good.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 20, 2010 at 9:03 PM, Martin Maney <maney at two14.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 08:31:46PM -0500, Brian Herman wrote:
>>> > How many of us will pass the class?
>>> > http://code.google.com/edu/languages/google-python-class/
>>>
>>> class Google(object):
>>>    "I'm not feeling very energetic right now"
>>>
>>>    pass
>>>
>>> --
>>> The true danger is when liberty is nibbled away,
>>> for expedients, and by parts.  -- Edmund Burke
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> _________________________________
>> Thank You,
>> Brian Herman
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>


-- 
_________________________________
Thank You,
Brian Herman
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From pfein at pobox.com  Mon Mar 22 02:19:32 2010
From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 20:19:32 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Google Python Class
In-Reply-To: <eb9a21ad1003211816w2be686f7k5297123b80a66ae9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4ef15ddc1003191831o3275f43eh45aa84383b1e732@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100321030319.GA11511@furrr.two14.net>
	<4ef15ddc1003202041r2b1434e3wfa4ee727462160aa@mail.gmail.com>
	<eb9a21ad1003211816w2be686f7k5297123b80a66ae9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C57CBA24-E5BD-4D61-8DEE-666CC0BA3E4A@pobox.com>

What is this, Twitter? 99 characters left

On Mar 21, 2010, at 8:16 PM, Jon Sudlow wrote:

> I believe I could pass it
> 
> On Sat, Mar 20, 2010 at 10:41 PM, Brian Herman <brianherman at gmail.com> wrote:
> That was good.
> 
> 
> On Sat, Mar 20, 2010 at 9:03 PM, Martin Maney <maney at two14.net> wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 08:31:46PM -0500, Brian Herman wrote:
> > How many of us will pass the class?
> > http://code.google.com/edu/languages/google-python-class/
> 
> class Google(object):
>    "I'm not feeling very energetic right now"
> 
>    pass
> 
> --
> The true danger is when liberty is nibbled away,
> for expedients, and by parts.  -- Edmund Burke
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> _________________________________
> Thank You,
> Brian Herman
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

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From clydeforrester at gmail.com  Mon Mar 22 02:28:49 2010
From: clydeforrester at gmail.com (Clyde Forrester)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 20:28:49 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Google Python Class
In-Reply-To: <C57CBA24-E5BD-4D61-8DEE-666CC0BA3E4A@pobox.com>
References: <4ef15ddc1003191831o3275f43eh45aa84383b1e732@mail.gmail.com>	<20100321030319.GA11511@furrr.two14.net>	<4ef15ddc1003202041r2b1434e3wfa4ee727462160aa@mail.gmail.com>	<eb9a21ad1003211816w2be686f7k5297123b80a66ae9@mail.gmail.com>
	<C57CBA24-E5BD-4D61-8DEE-666CC0BA3E4A@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <4BA6C7D1.5040003@gmail.com>

Something like that. The trick is to *code* in 140 characters.

--
Posted from my secret lair in a dormant volcano.

Pete wrote:
> What is this, Twitter? 99 characters left
> 
> On Mar 21, 2010, at 8:16 PM, Jon Sudlow wrote:
> 
>> I believe I could pass it
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 20, 2010 at 10:41 PM, Brian Herman <brianherman at gmail.com 
>> <mailto:brianherman at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     That was good.
>>
>>
>>     On Sat, Mar 20, 2010 at 9:03 PM, Martin Maney <maney at two14.net
>>     <mailto:maney at two14.net>> wrote:
>>
>>         On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 08:31:46PM -0500, Brian Herman wrote:
>>         > How many of us will pass the class?
>>         > http://code.google.com/edu/languages/google-python-class/
>>
>>         class Google(object):
>>            "I'm not feeling very energetic right now"
>>
>>            pass
>>
>>         --
>>         The true danger is when liberty is nibbled away,
>>         for expedients, and by parts.  -- Edmund Burke

From josh_johnson at unc.edu  Mon Mar 22 02:46:53 2010
From: josh_johnson at unc.edu (Josh Johnson)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 21:46:53 -0400
Subject: [Chicago] Google Python Class
In-Reply-To: <4BA6C7D1.5040003@gmail.com>
References: <4ef15ddc1003191831o3275f43eh45aa84383b1e732@mail.gmail.com>	<20100321030319.GA11511@furrr.two14.net>	<4ef15ddc1003202041r2b1434e3wfa4ee727462160aa@mail.gmail.com>	<eb9a21ad1003211816w2be686f7k5297123b80a66ae9@mail.gmail.com>
	<C57CBA24-E5BD-4D61-8DEE-666CC0BA3E4A@pobox.com>
	<4BA6C7D1.5040003@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8CACE664-A032-47B2-A385-E28D1BF1AB8A@unc.edu>

This is python, not perl... :P

JJ

On Mar 21, 2010, at 9:28 PM, Clyde Forrester wrote:

> Something like that. The trick is to *code* in 140 characters.
>
> --
> Posted from my secret lair in a dormant volcano.
>
> Pete wrote:
>> What is this, Twitter? 99 characters left
>> On Mar 21, 2010, at 8:16 PM, Jon Sudlow wrote:
>>> I believe I could pass it
>>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 20, 2010 at 10:41 PM, Brian Herman <brianherman at gmail.com 
>>>  <mailto:brianherman at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>    That was good.
>>>
>>>
>>>    On Sat, Mar 20, 2010 at 9:03 PM, Martin Maney <maney at two14.net
>>>    <mailto:maney at two14.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>>        On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 08:31:46PM -0500, Brian Herman wrote:
>>>        > How many of us will pass the class?
>>>        > http://code.google.com/edu/languages/google-python-class/
>>>
>>>        class Google(object):
>>>           "I'm not feeling very energetic right now"
>>>
>>>           pass
>>>
>>>        --
>>>        The true danger is when liberty is nibbled away,
>>>        for expedients, and by parts.  -- Edmund Burke
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>


From jsudlow at gmail.com  Mon Mar 22 02:55:05 2010
From: jsudlow at gmail.com (Jon Sudlow)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 20:55:05 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Google Python Class
In-Reply-To: <8CACE664-A032-47B2-A385-E28D1BF1AB8A@unc.edu>
References: <4ef15ddc1003191831o3275f43eh45aa84383b1e732@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100321030319.GA11511@furrr.two14.net>
	<4ef15ddc1003202041r2b1434e3wfa4ee727462160aa@mail.gmail.com>
	<eb9a21ad1003211816w2be686f7k5297123b80a66ae9@mail.gmail.com>
	<C57CBA24-E5BD-4D61-8DEE-666CC0BA3E4A@pobox.com>
	<4BA6C7D1.5040003@gmail.com>
	<8CACE664-A032-47B2-A385-E28D1BF1AB8A@unc.edu>
Message-ID: <eb9a21ad1003211855u61480fe0x2264c92597ec8987@mail.gmail.com>

Check out the log puzzle exercise. Thought it was kinda cool going on python
missions.

On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 8:46 PM, Josh Johnson <josh_johnson at unc.edu> wrote:

> This is python, not perl... :P
>
> JJ
>
>
> On Mar 21, 2010, at 9:28 PM, Clyde Forrester wrote:
>
>  Something like that. The trick is to *code* in 140 characters.
>>
>> --
>> Posted from my secret lair in a dormant volcano.
>>
>> Pete wrote:
>>
>>> What is this, Twitter? 99 characters left
>>> On Mar 21, 2010, at 8:16 PM, Jon Sudlow wrote:
>>>
>>>> I believe I could pass it
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Mar 20, 2010 at 10:41 PM, Brian Herman <brianherman at gmail.com<mailto:
>>>> brianherman at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>   That was good.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   On Sat, Mar 20, 2010 at 9:03 PM, Martin Maney <maney at two14.net
>>>>   <mailto:maney at two14.net>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>       On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 08:31:46PM -0500, Brian Herman wrote:
>>>>       > How many of us will pass the class?
>>>>       > http://code.google.com/edu/languages/google-python-class/
>>>>
>>>>       class Google(object):
>>>>          "I'm not feeling very energetic right now"
>>>>
>>>>          pass
>>>>
>>>>       --
>>>>       The true danger is when liberty is nibbled away,
>>>>       for expedients, and by parts.  -- Edmund Burke
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From tim.saylor at gmail.com  Mon Mar 22 18:45:30 2010
From: tim.saylor at gmail.com (Tim Saylor)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 12:45:30 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Twisted Python tutorial tomorrow
Message-ID: <9fb45b0b1003221045ne17e1eew6d54e00698124309@mail.gmail.com>

I thought you all might like to know that Dustin Mitchell will be leading an
introduction to Twisted tomorrow at 7pm at Pumping Station One (3354 N.
Elston)  It's intended to start people off a little further up the rather
steep learning curve of that library, and to learn by doing with a sprint on
Buildbot after the tutorial and continuing on Saturday at Pumping Station
One's hackathon.  Here's the blog post, if you're at all interested please
come by.

http://pumpingstationone.org/2010/03/psone-presents-a-guided-tour-to-twisted-python/
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From tim.saylor at gmail.com  Mon Mar 22 18:53:23 2010
From: tim.saylor at gmail.com (Tim Saylor)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 12:53:23 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Celebrate Ada Lovelace Day - March 24
Message-ID: <9fb45b0b1003221053q512b629dk2d5e84e0b5d243a7@mail.gmail.com>

Pumping Station One <http://www.pumpingstationone.org/> is celebrating Ada
Lovelace day on March 24th with a number of computing activities, including
a beginners programming class in Python and an obfuscated code competition
for more advanced programmers.  The full description is below.  It's sure to
be a lot of fun, come check it out!

--------------------

Ada Lovelace (world's first computer programmer), computer programming, and
all contributions to science by women is being celebrated on this Wednesday,
March 24 at 8pm at PS1.

We decided to do this at the very last minute (Saturday, really).

There will likely be:
* A beginners' programming class using the easy-to-learn computer language
called Python
* People discussing Ada Lovelace and women's contribution to science and
engineering
* An obfuscated code competition - - calculate Bernoulli's numbers
* Whatever else we can scrounge up at the very last moment!
* Drinking afterward!

Tell your friends! Tell your enemies! Tell all those people you feel meh
about!
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From jsudlow at gmail.com  Mon Mar 22 21:01:52 2010
From: jsudlow at gmail.com (Jon Sudlow)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 15:01:52 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Celebrate Ada Lovelace Day - March 24
In-Reply-To: <9fb45b0b1003221053q512b629dk2d5e84e0b5d243a7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9fb45b0b1003221053q512b629dk2d5e84e0b5d243a7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <eb9a21ad1003221301o29284150j645f0b1a49f11cb6@mail.gmail.com>

I think science girls are hot

On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 12:53 PM, Tim Saylor <tim.saylor at gmail.com> wrote:

> Pumping Station One <http://www.pumpingstationone.org/> is celebrating Ada
> Lovelace day on March 24th with a number of computing activities, including
> a beginners programming class in Python and an obfuscated code competition
> for more advanced programmers.  The full description is below.  It's sure to
> be a lot of fun, come check it out!
>
> --------------------
>
> Ada Lovelace (world's first computer programmer), computer programming, and
> all contributions to science by women is being celebrated on this Wednesday,
> March 24 at 8pm at PS1.
>
> We decided to do this at the very last minute (Saturday, really).
>
> There will likely be:
> * A beginners' programming class using the easy-to-learn computer language
> called Python
> * People discussing Ada Lovelace and women's contribution to science and
> engineering
> * An obfuscated code competition - - calculate Bernoulli's numbers
> * Whatever else we can scrounge up at the very last moment!
> * Drinking afterward!
>
> Tell your friends! Tell your enemies! Tell all those people you feel meh
> about!
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From orblivion at gmail.com  Mon Mar 22 21:12:41 2010
From: orblivion at gmail.com (Dan Krol)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 14:12:41 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Celebrate Ada Lovelace Day - March 24
In-Reply-To: <eb9a21ad1003221301o29284150j645f0b1a49f11cb6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9fb45b0b1003221053q512b629dk2d5e84e0b5d243a7@mail.gmail.com>
	<eb9a21ad1003221301o29284150j645f0b1a49f11cb6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <94e10adf1003221312l42f58e33jd7250b74bc631e71@mail.gmail.com>

To think, at one point in history, 100% of all computer programmers were
female.

On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 2:01 PM, Jon Sudlow <jsudlow at gmail.com> wrote:

> I think science girls are hot
>
> On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 12:53 PM, Tim Saylor <tim.saylor at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Pumping Station One <http://www.pumpingstationone.org/> is celebrating
>> Ada Lovelace day on March 24th with a number of computing activities,
>> including a beginners programming class in Python and an obfuscated code
>> competition for more advanced programmers.  The full description is below.
>> It's sure to be a lot of fun, come check it out!
>>
>> --------------------
>>
>> Ada Lovelace (world's first computer programmer), computer programming,
>> and all contributions to science by women is being celebrated on this
>> Wednesday, March 24 at 8pm at PS1.
>>
>> We decided to do this at the very last minute (Saturday, really).
>>
>> There will likely be:
>> * A beginners' programming class using the easy-to-learn computer language
>> called Python
>> * People discussing Ada Lovelace and women's contribution to science and
>> engineering
>> * An obfuscated code competition - - calculate Bernoulli's numbers
>> * Whatever else we can scrounge up at the very last moment!
>> * Drinking afterward!
>>
>> Tell your friends! Tell your enemies! Tell all those people you feel meh
>> about!
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com  Mon Mar 22 21:42:45 2010
From: christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com (Jonathan Hayward)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 15:42:45 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] falsy objects?
In-Reply-To: <a61341851003190807x6244a0d8x6c5e19649204160b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fdc31b651003190754w419eca90wb11aaec180194a89@mail.gmail.com>
	<835C1117-F928-41E7-A1E0-943582645C80@sent.com>
	<a61341851003190807x6244a0d8x6c5e19649204160b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fdc31b651003221342q11fc6ba8s13aa9349d6878fdc@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, @all.

On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Ken Schutte <kenschutte at gmail.com> wrote:

> As others said, "__nonzero__" will do it.  The relevant docs are here:
> http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html#truth-value-testing
>
> Ken
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 10:04 AM, Brian Ray <bray at sent.com> wrote:
> > You probably want to look at truth operator overloading
> > http://docs.python.org/library/operator.html
> >
> > On a side note, you may also want to look into Mock object helpers
> > http://python-mock.sourceforge.net/ depending on what your trying to do.
> > They are useful on several levels, but the mock library itself needs to
> do
> > things like truth testing.
> >
> > Brian Ray
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
? Jonathan Hayward, christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com
? An Orthodox Christian author: theology, literature, et cetera.
? My award-winning collection is available for free reading online:
? I invite you to visit my main site at http://JonathansCorner.com/
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From shekay at pobox.com  Tue Mar 23 00:18:07 2010
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 18:18:07 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Resi's
Message-ID: <a68ced641003221618g68b99de7he314c6f98e00bcc3@mail.gmail.com>

Today at tweener o clock

Resi's Bierstube Restaurant
2034 West Irving Park Road, Chicago, IL 60618-3910

-- 
sheila

From carl at personnelware.com  Tue Mar 23 01:03:57 2010
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 18:03:57 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Resi's
In-Reply-To: <549053141003221702q44a3aeefxfa9a3fb6cd2d0f5f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a68ced641003221618g68b99de7he314c6f98e00bcc3@mail.gmail.com>
	<549053141003221702q44a3aeefxfa9a3fb6cd2d0f5f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <549053141003221703n2832a6f6q195c2bfb0225d710@mail.gmail.com>

I have arrived.

On Mar 22, 2010 6:22 PM, "sheila miguez" <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:

Today at tweener o clock

Resi's Bierstube Restaurant
2034 West Irving Park Road, Chicago, IL 60618-3910

--
sheila
_______________________________________________
Chicago mailing list
Chicago at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
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From shekay at pobox.com  Tue Mar 23 15:16:11 2010
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 09:16:11 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Celebrate Ada Lovelace Day - March 24
In-Reply-To: <9fb45b0b1003221053q512b629dk2d5e84e0b5d243a7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9fb45b0b1003221053q512b629dk2d5e84e0b5d243a7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a68ced641003230716u338874f8je3ac2900f92a384b@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 12:53 PM, Tim Saylor <tim.saylor at gmail.com> wrote:
> Pumping Station One is celebrating Ada Lovelace day on March 24th with a

Is this open to non PS1 members?


-- 
sheila

From shekay at pobox.com  Tue Mar 23 15:17:53 2010
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 09:17:53 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Celebrate Ada Lovelace Day - March 24
In-Reply-To: <a68ced641003230716u338874f8je3ac2900f92a384b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9fb45b0b1003221053q512b629dk2d5e84e0b5d243a7@mail.gmail.com>
	<a68ced641003230716u338874f8je3ac2900f92a384b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a68ced641003230717s62aac476i30c2e6c75d907901@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 9:16 AM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 12:53 PM, Tim Saylor <tim.saylor at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Pumping Station One is celebrating Ada Lovelace day on March 24th with a
>
> Is this open to non PS1 members?

Also, how much room do you have? If it is open to non PS1 members, can
I forward this to devchix (I'm not a member, but maybe they could post
about it) or forward it to everyone in technology at work?




-- 
sheila

From shekay at pobox.com  Tue Mar 23 15:16:11 2010
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 09:16:11 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Celebrate Ada Lovelace Day - March 24
In-Reply-To: <9fb45b0b1003221053q512b629dk2d5e84e0b5d243a7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9fb45b0b1003221053q512b629dk2d5e84e0b5d243a7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a68ced641003230716u338874f8je3ac2900f92a384b@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 12:53 PM, Tim Saylor <tim.saylor at gmail.com> wrote:
> Pumping Station One is celebrating Ada Lovelace day on March 24th with a

Is this open to non PS1 members?


-- 
sheila

From cwebber at dustycloud.org  Tue Mar 23 16:54:03 2010
From: cwebber at dustycloud.org (Christopher Allan Webber)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 10:54:03 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Celebrate Ada Lovelace Day - March 24
In-Reply-To: <a68ced641003230716u338874f8je3ac2900f92a384b@mail.gmail.com>
	(sheila miguez's message of "Tue, 23 Mar 2010 09:16:11 -0500")
References: <9fb45b0b1003221053q512b629dk2d5e84e0b5d243a7@mail.gmail.com>
	<a68ced641003230716u338874f8je3ac2900f92a384b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <871vfbjap0.fsf@dustycloud.org>

It's open to non-ps1 members, yes.

sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> writes:

> On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 12:53 PM, Tim Saylor <tim.saylor at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Pumping Station One is celebrating Ada Lovelace day on March 24th with a
>
> Is this open to non PS1 members?

From cfkarsten at gmail.com  Fri Mar 26 18:36:33 2010
From: cfkarsten at gmail.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 11:36:33 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Next Month
In-Reply-To: <cf9f31f21003180706r5067c7b4y27ef6a9a4ad72bae@mail.gmail.com>
References: <44194495-B657-4368-B1E4-67343DB4D911@pobox.com>
	<cf9f31f21003180706r5067c7b4y27ef6a9a4ad72bae@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <549053141003261036j43b0ba48p196ebf6fb8790c70@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 8:06 AM, Brian Curtin <brian.curtin at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 13:20, Pete <pfein at pobox.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hiya-
>>
>> I'd like to give a longer version (1/2 hour) of my Pycon lightning talk
>> about Please Pirate. You can find a screencast at http://pleasepirate.org,
>> or the live one at http://pycon.blip.tv/file/3332814/ (at 13:26 or so)
>>
>> Anybody else want to talk about pycon things? Or anything else?
>>
>
> I don't know how closely ChiPy people follow CPython development, but I
> could put together a talk on what's coming up in 2.7. The alphas are over
> and the first beta drops early next month.
>
> It's kind of related to PyCon in that I'd end up summarizing a few of the
> talks, eg. the unittest talk.

Brian,

You still up for doing this?


-- 
Carl K

From joe at germuska.com  Fri Mar 26 21:18:00 2010
From: joe at germuska.com (Joe Germuska)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 15:18:00 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Red Eye Labs
References: <C7D27ED2.3DA2%syiu@Tribune.com>
Message-ID: <8B58FBD1-17CB-4520-A79C-5346D4A470BA@germuska.com>

My friend Steph Yiu is looking for applications for her Red Eye Labs project.  Forwarding to ChiPy in case anyone is interested.  Links at the bottom.

Joe


> Calling all nerds, geeks, journalists, developers, artists, designers,
> photographers and general "idea people." We have an awesome
> opportunity for you to develop, design and build your very own
> real-life application at RedEye and Metromix.
> 
> THE CHALLENGE
> Create a project with a practical application that serves this
> purpose: How can RedEye/Metromix better serve your Chicago
> neighborhood?
> 
> WHAT IS REDEYE LABS?
> RedEye Labs is a 3-month long residency program where students and
> recent graduates get hands-on experience taking a project from idea to
> execution. Not only will students get to work closely with the
> RedEye/Metromix newsroom, but they will also get "class sessions" from
> an industry speaker in various fields. Keep in mind, this is not an
> internship -- you will be working mostly off-site.
> 
> FULL DETAILS/APPLICATION: http://bit.ly/9bbEgx
> 
> BLOG POST: http://bit.ly/bZCior

-- 
Joe Germuska
Joe at Germuska.com * http://blog.germuska.com * http://twitter.com/JoeGermuska    

"Participation. That's what's gonna save the human race." --Pete Seeger

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From brian.curtin at gmail.com  Sat Mar 27 01:28:01 2010
From: brian.curtin at gmail.com (Brian Curtin)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 18:28:01 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Next Month
In-Reply-To: <549053141003261036j43b0ba48p196ebf6fb8790c70@mail.gmail.com>
References: <44194495-B657-4368-B1E4-67343DB4D911@pobox.com>
	<cf9f31f21003180706r5067c7b4y27ef6a9a4ad72bae@mail.gmail.com>
	<549053141003261036j43b0ba48p196ebf6fb8790c70@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cf9f31f21003261728i3de8076brcef166f422ca411d@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 11:36, Carl Karsten <cfkarsten at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 8:06 AM, Brian Curtin <brian.curtin at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 13:20, Pete <pfein at pobox.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hiya-
> >>
> >> I'd like to give a longer version (1/2 hour) of my Pycon lightning talk
> >> about Please Pirate. You can find a screencast at
> http://pleasepirate.org,
> >> or the live one at http://pycon.blip.tv/file/3332814/ (at 13:26 or so)
> >>
> >> Anybody else want to talk about pycon things? Or anything else?
> >>
> >
> > I don't know how closely ChiPy people follow CPython development, but I
> > could put together a talk on what's coming up in 2.7. The alphas are over
> > and the first beta drops early next month.
> >
> > It's kind of related to PyCon in that I'd end up summarizing a few of the
> > talks, eg. the unittest talk.
>
> Brian,
>
> You still up for doing this?
>

Yep. Count me in.
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From cfkarsten at gmail.com  Sat Mar 27 01:49:13 2010
From: cfkarsten at gmail.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 18:49:13 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Next Month
In-Reply-To: <cf9f31f21003261728i3de8076brcef166f422ca411d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <44194495-B657-4368-B1E4-67343DB4D911@pobox.com>
	<cf9f31f21003180706r5067c7b4y27ef6a9a4ad72bae@mail.gmail.com>
	<549053141003261036j43b0ba48p196ebf6fb8790c70@mail.gmail.com>
	<cf9f31f21003261728i3de8076brcef166f422ca411d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <549053141003261749q51ba663es739381ca121905a6@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 6:28 PM, Brian Curtin <brian.curtin at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 11:36, Carl Karsten <cfkarsten at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 8:06 AM, Brian Curtin <brian.curtin at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 13:20, Pete <pfein at pobox.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hiya-
>> >>
>> >> I'd like to give a longer version (1/2 hour) of my Pycon lightning talk
>> >> about Please Pirate. You can find a screencast at
>> >> http://pleasepirate.org,
>> >> or the live one at http://pycon.blip.tv/file/3332814/ (at 13:26 or so)
>> >>
>> >> Anybody else want to talk about pycon things? Or anything else?
>> >>
>> >
>> > I don't know how closely ChiPy people follow CPython development, but I
>> > could put together a talk on what's coming up in 2.7. The alphas are
>> > over
>> > and the first beta drops early next month.
>> >
>> > It's kind of related to PyCon in that I'd end up summarizing a few of
>> > the
>> > talks, eg. the unittest talk.
>>
>> Brian,
>>
>> You still up for doing this?
>
> Yep. Count me in.


Cool.  Can you help flesh out the announcement with a better
description -  here is what I have:

ChiPy
=========================
Come join us for our best meeting ever!

When: 7 PM Thursday April 8, 2010
Where: ITA

Topics
------
 1. 7:00 What's coming up in 2.7 (Brian Curtin)


Details
-------
1. What's coming up in 2.7
Brian Curtin
What's coming up in 2.7. The alphas are over and the first beta drops
early next month.   It's kind of related to PyCon in that I'd end up
summarizing a few of the talks, eg. the unittest talk.

-- 
Carl K

From cwebber at dustycloud.org  Fri Mar 26 21:32:18 2010
From: cwebber at dustycloud.org (Christopher Allan Webber)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 15:32:18 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] PS1 talk on licensing tonight
Message-ID: <87pr2qakod.fsf@dustycloud.org>

Sup foos,

I'm giving a talk on Free Software & Free Culture licensing tonight at
Pumping Station One @ 8:00pm.  But I don't think I ever advertised this,
so here goes!
http://pumpingstationone.org

Drop by if you're curious!

Breaking netiquitte by posting (but not *cross*-posting)
to 3 lists like a douchebag,
 - cwebb

From joe.jasinski at gmail.com  Sun Mar 28 21:37:15 2010
From: joe.jasinski at gmail.com (Joe Jasinski)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 12:37:15 -0700
Subject: [Chicago] ID THEFT
Message-ID: <d9df880f1003281237y331f0645t1353bca9d586d2ef@mail.gmail.com>

All,
  This morning my gmail, facebook and yahoo accounts were hacked my a
Nigerian scammer.  Please ignore these fraud emails.  It's a good reminder
how vaulnerable our online IDs are.  I am in the process of recovering my
accounts.
  Please do not fall into this spammer's trap and DO NOT SEND HIM/HER
MONEY.  Thank you all for your help.  Sorry to bother you with this.
Joe


-- 
Joe J. Jasinski
www.joejasinski.com
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From orblivion at gmail.com  Mon Mar 29 00:08:52 2010
From: orblivion at gmail.com (Dan Krol)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 16:08:52 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ID THEFT
In-Reply-To: <d9df880f1003281237y331f0645t1353bca9d586d2ef@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d9df880f1003281237y331f0645t1353bca9d586d2ef@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <94e10adf1003281508y8e34072sfd33cc37b2b34e24@mail.gmail.com>

What should we look out for? What did s/he do to trick you into giving
away your password?

On 3/28/10, Joe Jasinski <joe.jasinski at gmail.com> wrote:
> All,
>   This morning my gmail, facebook and yahoo accounts were hacked my a
> Nigerian scammer.  Please ignore these fraud emails.  It's a good reminder
> how vaulnerable our online IDs are.  I am in the process of recovering my
> accounts.
>   Please do not fall into this spammer's trap and DO NOT SEND HIM/HER
> MONEY.  Thank you all for your help.  Sorry to bother you with this.
> Joe
>
>
> --
> Joe J. Jasinski
> www.joejasinski.com
>

From carl at personnelware.com  Mon Mar 29 16:45:48 2010
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 08:45:48 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] start meeting with "intro to Python"
Message-ID: <549053141003290745n4b906eeesae86d6f506149845@mail.gmail.com>

Would anyone object to starting the meeting with 10-20 minutes of
showing Python to people who have never seen it?

I am not sure what it would consist of, other than it would end with
"Now that you see how easy it is to do things, spend an hour or 2 on
the Python tutorial."

-- 
Carl K

From pfein at pobox.com  Mon Mar 29 16:48:30 2010
From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 09:48:30 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Next Month
In-Reply-To: <549053141003261749q51ba663es739381ca121905a6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <44194495-B657-4368-B1E4-67343DB4D911@pobox.com>
	<cf9f31f21003180706r5067c7b4y27ef6a9a4ad72bae@mail.gmail.com>
	<549053141003261036j43b0ba48p196ebf6fb8790c70@mail.gmail.com>
	<cf9f31f21003261728i3de8076brcef166f422ca411d@mail.gmail.com>
	<549053141003261749q51ba663es739381ca121905a6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A7EC40DD-992B-4FCA-AA92-AE1DCF3D603F@pobox.com>


On Mar 26, 2010, at 7:49 PM, Carl Karsten wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 6:28 PM, Brian Curtin <brian.curtin at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 11:36, Carl Karsten <cfkarsten at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 8:06 AM, Brian Curtin <brian.curtin at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 13:20, Pete <pfein at pobox.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hiya-
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'd like to give a longer version (1/2 hour) of my Pycon lightning talk
>>>>> about Please Pirate. You can find a screencast at
>>>>> http://pleasepirate.org,
>>>>> or the live one at http://pycon.blip.tv/file/3332814/ (at 13:26 or so)

Forget me? ;-) I'm happy to go 1st or 2nd.

> Topics
> ------

0. Please Pirate: Intellectual Unproperty (or) How pirates can make the world safe for freedom and your fingers (Pete Fein)

> 1. 7:00 What's coming up in 2.7 (Brian Curtin)
> 
> Details
> -------
Information is *already* free! Renounce your rights!

Please Pirate is an alternative to copyright and other forms of IP.

The complexity of IP law limits effective copyright to those able to afford an expert legal team (think: RIAA). The resulting legal uncertainty is an impediment to innovation, communication and the creation of new work. When releasing work under Please Pirate, an author encourages the audience to share, distribute, remix, etc.. This gains the broadest possible reach and frees the audience from legal risks of copyright violation.

This talk will discuss the legal, economic and cultural costs of copyright, explain Please Pirate, and compare it to other open licenses (esp. Creative Commons/BSD and the public domain). I?ll also cover how Please Pirate operate in practice: ethics in the absence of law, bridging the material and digital worlds and why you should release your content under Please Pirate.

From shekay at pobox.com  Mon Mar 29 17:28:29 2010
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 10:28:29 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] May 1 codecamp
Message-ID: <a68ced641003290828y7c79549fr151c3fe03290b4f9@mail.gmail.com>

I saw this in the cjug mailing list:

http://chicagocodecamp.com/


-- 
sheila

From emperorcezar at gmail.com  Mon Mar 29 17:43:49 2010
From: emperorcezar at gmail.com (Adam Jenkins)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 10:43:49 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] May 1 codecamp
In-Reply-To: <a68ced641003290828y7c79549fr151c3fe03290b4f9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a68ced641003290828y7c79549fr151c3fe03290b4f9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <58a5f2221003290843g78c1eab8n8addeb59dc7e0ff0@mail.gmail.com>

What is it? The site is very very vague. Which I think is a huge mistake on
their part, but meh.

On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 10:28 AM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:

> I saw this in the cjug mailing list:
>
> http://chicagocodecamp.com/
>
>
> --
> sheila
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From cfkarsten at gmail.com  Mon Mar 29 17:51:45 2010
From: cfkarsten at gmail.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 09:51:45 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] May 1 codecamp
In-Reply-To: <a68ced641003290828y7c79549fr151c3fe03290b4f9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a68ced641003290828y7c79549fr151c3fe03290b4f9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <549053141003290851r1aad2908q723affc39efe5dfc@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 9:28 AM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
> I saw this in the cjug mailing list:
>
> http://chicagocodecamp.com/

It's a call for talks for an event in about a month:
"""
Are you a developer with a passion for your craft? We want to hear
your voice! Give us a little information on the talk you're planning
and how to contact you.

May 1st, 2010 at 8:00 AM
IIT- Stuart Building - 10 West 31st - Chicago, IL 60616 """

What is the cjug list signup url?  I though I was on it - kinda
wondering why I wasn't hearing about meetings.



-- 
Carl K

From shekay at pobox.com  Mon Mar 29 17:52:05 2010
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 10:52:05 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] May 1 codecamp
In-Reply-To: <58a5f2221003290843g78c1eab8n8addeb59dc7e0ff0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a68ced641003290828y7c79549fr151c3fe03290b4f9@mail.gmail.com>
	<58a5f2221003290843g78c1eab8n8addeb59dc7e0ff0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a68ced641003290852w4bafa058v350328baaf2f38c6@mail.gmail.com>

I agree with you that the site is pretty meh for letting people know
anything about the event. Jim's email to the java mailing list was
fairly informative. I should have quoted it in my first mail, huh:

<quote>

On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 2:43 PM, Jim Breen <jbreen.groups at gmail.com> wrote:
    CJUG encourages the local Java community to participate in the
upcoming Chicago Code Camp on May 1st at IIT.

    Code camps are forums for members of the local development
community to present on a variety of topics directly related to code
and development.  The sessions are totally up to the diversity of
speaker submissions and community interest. Last year's Code Camp had
around 35 sessions with topics such as JavaScript, Ruby, .NET, Python,
 iPhone, Scala, XUL, TDD, Rails, Cloud Computing, Regular Expressions,
etc.  It would be great for the Java community to represent!

    Submit a presentation proposal or register to attend:
    http://chicagocodecamp.com/

</quote>

On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Adam Jenkins <emperorcezar at gmail.com> wrote:
> What is it? The site is very very vague. Which I think is a huge mistake on
> their part, but meh.
>
> On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 10:28 AM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
>>
>> I saw this in the cjug mailing list:
>>
>> http://chicagocodecamp.com/
>>
>>
>> --
>> sheila
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>



-- 
sheila

From shekay at pobox.com  Mon Mar 29 18:25:52 2010
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 11:25:52 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Fwd: python packaging
In-Reply-To: <c90eac42-bcb4-4c49-a33e-65f580edaa12@b30g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <c90eac42-bcb4-4c49-a33e-65f580edaa12@b30g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <a68ced641003290925r242ed2b2t9c55728c0a306b5@mail.gmail.com>

I've asked this in our irc group but would like to ask the mailing
list (also submitted the question to the protocol buffers mailing
list)

background info on protobufs
http://code.google.com/apis/protocolbuffers/docs/pythontutorial.html

---------- Forwarded message ----------
[...]

I usually work in java, but would like to play with our message files
using python scripts. We have .proto files nested at various depths
rather than in one directory as shown by the tutorial messages. Life
is easy for me in java land, but I'm not being very pythonic here:

compilation step:
?find src -name "*.proto" -exec protoc --proto_path=src/proto/ --
python_out=pyto/ {} +

making everything importable:
?find pyto/ -execdir touch __init__.py \;

Normally I use ant to build stuff, but if I want to play around in
pure python land I'd rather not.

I'd appreciate thoughts on more idiomatic ways to do what I am doing
here.

End result for me: be able import foo.bar.baz and play with it.

From pfein at pobox.com  Mon Mar 29 21:32:42 2010
From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 14:32:42 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Next Month
In-Reply-To: <A7EC40DD-992B-4FCA-AA92-AE1DCF3D603F@pobox.com>
References: <44194495-B657-4368-B1E4-67343DB4D911@pobox.com>
	<cf9f31f21003180706r5067c7b4y27ef6a9a4ad72bae@mail.gmail.com>
	<549053141003261036j43b0ba48p196ebf6fb8790c70@mail.gmail.com>
	<cf9f31f21003261728i3de8076brcef166f422ca411d@mail.gmail.com>
	<549053141003261749q51ba663es739381ca121905a6@mail.gmail.com>
	<A7EC40DD-992B-4FCA-AA92-AE1DCF3D603F@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <CADF20AB-93A2-4AE2-AB93-92250E862FA8@pobox.com>


On Mar 29, 2010, at 9:48 AM, Pete wrote:

> 
> On Mar 26, 2010, at 7:49 PM, Carl Karsten wrote:
> 
>> Topics
>> ------
> 
> 0. Please Pirate: Intellectual Unproperty (or) How pirates can make the world safe for freedom and your fingers (Pete Fein)

Actually, scratch that.  After discussion on IRC, I'd rather talk about my new logging project: 

N) Twiggy: A Pythonic Logger

Home: http://python-twiggy.googlecode.com
Pluses: Actually code, started at Pycon.
See the notes for a quick overview http://pythontwiggy.googlecode.com/hg/notes.html

From christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com  Mon Mar 29 21:36:15 2010
From: christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com (Jonathan Hayward)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 14:36:15 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Ebook: Usability, the Soul of Python
Message-ID: <fdc31b651003291236hc60de35w1bf9e2d83ee0f8d3@mail.gmail.com>

I've posted Usability, the Soul of Python: An Introduction to the Python
Programming Language Through the Eyes of
Usability<http://JonathansCorner.com/python/>
.

I'd like to thank a number of people on this list for discussion; this piece
is much better than it would be without this forum.

-- 
? Jonathan Hayward, christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com
? An Orthodox Christian author: theology, literature, et cetera.
? My award-winning collection is available for free reading online:
? I invite you to visit my main site at http://JonathansCorner.com/
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From johnstoner2 at gmail.com  Tue Mar 30 05:34:40 2010
From: johnstoner2 at gmail.com (John Stoner)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 03:34:40 +0000
Subject: [Chicago] Explore the Alien Bowels of Haskell at PS:One
Message-ID: <001485ea38c84792630482fc4f7d@google.com>

it will make your brain hurt, in a good way...

Sent to you by John Stoner via Google Reader: Explore the Alien Bowels
of Haskell at PS:One via Pumping Station: One by jstoner on 3/29/10

When: Thursdays, April 8th & 22nd, 8pm
Where: PS:One, 3354 N. Elston

Like an artifact from an alien civilization?or is it from the
future??Haskell fascinates and confounds. Is it good? Is it evil? What
does it want from us? PS:One member Robert Lee has investigated its
mysteries, cut the Gordian knot of deep mathematese that surrounds
Haskell, and emerged with near-mystical coding powers. He comes to
share his newfound wisdom with the coder masses.

He has scheduled his first two classes in April. There will be more
afterward, to be scheduled. Bring your laptop. Before we start, he
recommends installing GHC and spending some time with Learn You a
Haskell For Great Good. This will not be an introduction to
programming?you probably need some proficiency with basic programming
concepts. If you know what recursion is, you?re probably solid.

He promises you will merely gain familiarity with cutting edge
techniques in functional programming. Haskell is not madness-inducing.
You may go mad, but if you do, it will have nothing to do with this
class.

Things you can do from here:
- Subscribe to Pumping Station: One using Google Reader
- Get started using Google Reader to easily keep up with all your
favorite sites
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From verisimilidude at gmail.com  Wed Mar 31 17:31:09 2010
From: verisimilidude at gmail.com (Phil Robare)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 10:31:09 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] start meeting with "intro to Python"
In-Reply-To: <549053141003290745n4b906eeesae86d6f506149845@mail.gmail.com>
References: <549053141003290745n4b906eeesae86d6f506149845@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <x2m6ad48f981003310831j73a830b2r11bba27d40423220@mail.gmail.com>

That assumes that we have enough people coming (or watching online)
that have never seen Python.  Rather than going through the tutorial
maybe we could have short, focused talks on basic use of specific
libraries, and hit basic Python abilities along the way.  Suggestions
for topics could be "Regular Expressions: Perl vs Python", "Calling a
database from Python", "Using SWIG to call a C library".  For people
who do these things they are low level and simple, for the rest who
have never had a reason to do them they create a short stumble when we
first try them.

On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 9:45 AM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:
> Would anyone object to starting the meeting with 10-20 minutes of
> showing Python to people who have never seen it?

From dgriff1 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 31 17:39:59 2010
From: dgriff1 at gmail.com (Daniel Griffin)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 10:39:59 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] start meeting with "intro to Python"
In-Reply-To: <x2m6ad48f981003310831j73a830b2r11bba27d40423220@mail.gmail.com>
References: <549053141003290745n4b906eeesae86d6f506149845@mail.gmail.com>
	<x2m6ad48f981003310831j73a830b2r11bba27d40423220@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <x2y3db160681003310839ua4342ab9m899a4cbcc0583b1b@mail.gmail.com>

I thought an interesting one would be "Why classes in python are different
than classes in Java/C++/Ruby". Basically the differences between Python OO
and the OO you learn in school.

On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 10:31 AM, Phil Robare <verisimilidude at gmail.com>wrote:

> That assumes that we have enough people coming (or watching online)
> that have never seen Python.  Rather than going through the tutorial
> maybe we could have short, focused talks on basic use of specific
> libraries, and hit basic Python abilities along the way.  Suggestions
> for topics could be "Regular Expressions: Perl vs Python", "Calling a
> database from Python", "Using SWIG to call a C library".  For people
> who do these things they are low level and simple, for the rest who
> have never had a reason to do them they create a short stumble when we
> first try them.
>
> On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 9:45 AM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com>
> wrote:
> > Would anyone object to starting the meeting with 10-20 minutes of
> > showing Python to people who have never seen it?
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From cfkarsten at gmail.com  Wed Mar 31 18:14:08 2010
From: cfkarsten at gmail.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 10:14:08 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] start meeting with "intro to Python"
In-Reply-To: <x2m6ad48f981003310831j73a830b2r11bba27d40423220@mail.gmail.com>
References: <549053141003290745n4b906eeesae86d6f506149845@mail.gmail.com>
	<x2m6ad48f981003310831j73a830b2r11bba27d40423220@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <z2y549053141003310914jd418706bw891645c1901dad8a@mail.gmail.com>

The idea wasn't to go though the tutorial but show how low the hump
is.  but I do agree that there may not be enough or even any interest.

And I totally agree that short little "how to do something that is
simple once you know how" talks are great.

"Using SWIG to call a C library" - I personally wold like to see that.
 I have tried, and had no clue what I was doing, wasn't sure what I
was looking at in the way of results, so I gave up.


On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 9:31 AM, Phil Robare <verisimilidude at gmail.com> wrote:
> That assumes that we have enough people coming (or watching online)
> that have never seen Python. ?Rather than going through the tutorial
> maybe we could have short, focused talks on basic use of specific
> libraries, and hit basic Python abilities along the way. ?Suggestions
> for topics could be "Regular Expressions: Perl vs Python", "Calling a
> database from Python", "Using SWIG to call a C library". ?For people
> who do these things they are low level and simple, for the rest who
> have never had a reason to do them they create a short stumble when we
> first try them.
>
> On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 9:45 AM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:
>> Would anyone object to starting the meeting with 10-20 minutes of
>> showing Python to people who have never seen it?
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
Carl K

From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar 31 19:52:36 2010
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 12:52:36 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] start meeting with "intro to Python"
In-Reply-To: <x2m6ad48f981003310831j73a830b2r11bba27d40423220@mail.gmail.com>
References: <549053141003290745n4b906eeesae86d6f506149845@mail.gmail.com>
	<x2m6ad48f981003310831j73a830b2r11bba27d40423220@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <19379.35812.593029.478888@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Carl> Would anyone object to starting the meeting with 10-20 minutes of
    Carl> showing Python to people who have never seen it?

    Phil> That assumes that we have enough people coming (or watching
    Phil> online) that have never seen Python.

Maybe certain meetings could be more beginner-friendly by design, maybe once
every three months?  Those meetings would be more geared to novice Python
programmers and have talks to suit.

Skip

From johnstoner2 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 31 20:04:50 2010
From: johnstoner2 at gmail.com (John Stoner)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 12:04:50 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] start meeting with "intro to Python"
In-Reply-To: <19379.35812.593029.478888@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <549053141003290745n4b906eeesae86d6f506149845@mail.gmail.com>
	<x2m6ad48f981003310831j73a830b2r11bba27d40423220@mail.gmail.com>
	<19379.35812.593029.478888@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <q2o74ee3f2b1003311104rc1da5a61u2c51e127b3255323@mail.gmail.com>

You'd wanna announce those ahead of time, and publicize them outside your
regular channels. I can forward to the PS:One public list.

On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 11:52 AM, <skip at pobox.com> wrote:

>
>    Carl> Would anyone object to starting the meeting with 10-20 minutes of
>    Carl> showing Python to people who have never seen it?
>
>    Phil> That assumes that we have enough people coming (or watching
>    Phil> online) that have never seen Python.
>
> Maybe certain meetings could be more beginner-friendly by design, maybe
> once
> every three months?  Those meetings would be more geared to novice Python
> programmers and have talks to suit.
>
> Skip
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
blogs:
http://www.generosity.org/stoner/
http://boogiepants.typepad.com/
'In knowledge is power; in  wisdom, humility.'
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