From robert.a.zeh at gmail.com Wed Jan 2 00:11:15 2008 From: robert.a.zeh at gmail.com (Robert Zeh) Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 17:11:15 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] January venue? In-Reply-To: <7B028E95-981E-4ECE-9035-4CACD913E89E@sent.com> References: <47620E15.6080700@colorstudy.com> <77B48D6A-6B59-487E-B174-D756397F5DAD@gmail.com> <3B29724C-6025-449C-AB73-EC40102FFE79@sent.com> <6BBC8743-A8A8-4E25-AD0B-72D505112B00@gmail.com> <7B028E95-981E-4ECE-9035-4CACD913E89E@sent.com> Message-ID: I'm finalizing everything at GETCO for the January meeting. It turns out that the space Brian's been at will not be available, but there is another space we can use: Club Quarters, Central Loop 111 West Adams Street (Next to the Rookery and near LaSalle) Chicago, IL 60603 Assume no internet access. I will bring my macbook pro and cellular modem just in case, but the modem's always been pretty flaky. It would be helpful if people would RSVP me by the Tuesday before so I can get the right amount of food. Robert -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080101/386abc52/attachment.htm From carl at personnelware.com Wed Jan 2 17:36:49 2008 From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 10:36:49 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] January venue? In-Reply-To: References: <47620E15.6080700@colorstudy.com> <77B48D6A-6B59-487E-B174-D756397F5DAD@gmail.com> <3B29724C-6025-449C-AB73-EC40102FFE79@sent.com> <6BBC8743-A8A8-4E25-AD0B-72D505112B00@gmail.com> <7B028E95-981E-4ECE-9035-4CACD913E89E@sent.com> Message-ID: <477BBDA1.7090004@personnelware.com> Robert Zeh wrote: > > I'm finalizing everything at GETCO for the January meeting. It turns > out that the space Brian's been at will not be available, but there is > another space we can use: > > Club Quarters, Central Loop > 111 West Adams Street > (Next to the Rookery and near LaSalle) > Chicago, IL 60603 > > > Assume no internet access. I will bring my macbook pro and cellular > modem just in case, but the modem's always been pretty flaky. It has a projector/screen, right? Carl K From shekay at pobox.com Wed Jan 2 18:40:35 2008 From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 11:40:35 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] January venue? In-Reply-To: References: <47620E15.6080700@colorstudy.com> <77B48D6A-6B59-487E-B174-D756397F5DAD@gmail.com> <3B29724C-6025-449C-AB73-EC40102FFE79@sent.com> <6BBC8743-A8A8-4E25-AD0B-72D505112B00@gmail.com> <7B028E95-981E-4ECE-9035-4CACD913E89E@sent.com> Message-ID: My wireless card has been working reliably. If someone has a wap that would work with it we could set up a network. (but if hte problem is with the building, it would also be flakey) On Jan 1, 2008 5:11 PM, Robert Zeh wrote: > > > I'm finalizing everything at GETCO for the January meeting. It turns out > that the space Brian's been at will not be available, but there is another > space we can use: > > Club Quarters, Central Loop > 111 West Adams Street > (Next to the Rookery and near LaSalle) > Chicago, IL 60603 > > > Assume no internet access. I will bring my macbook pro and cellular modem > just in case, but the modem's always been pretty flaky. > > It would be helpful if people would RSVP me by the Tuesday before so I can > get the right amount of food. > > Robert > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > -- sheila From varmaa at gmail.com Wed Jan 2 18:48:21 2008 From: varmaa at gmail.com (Atul Varma) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 11:48:21 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Conversation topics for January In-Reply-To: <477720E4.8020606@caret.cam.ac.uk> References: <6yd4t4hseh.fsf@imagepc03.rd.imagescape.com> <477720E4.8020606@caret.cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: <361b27370801020948t729d42a1maee4aa1f629208e0@mail.gmail.com> If there is any interest, I'd like to give a newbie-and-expert-friendly talk on the venerable "pickle" module. - Atul On Dec 29, 2007 10:39 PM, swg wrote: > If there's time and interest, I'd have fun doing a lightening talk about > Python scripting support in OpenOffice if it hasn't been covered in a > meeting yet. > > -Steve > > Christopher Allan Webber wrote: > > So I'm starting a separate thread to discuss topics for January. Not > > really the same conversation as the venue, so.. > > > > I've claimed dibs on presenting this month since I forefitted > > last month (okay, I needed some more time to prepare the animation > > system too, but..) > > > > Last month it was a totally theoretical animation system. But this > > month it's no longer theoretical... I proposed using the animation > > system, and I'm happy to say that not only did it run successfully, > > but (partly because of it,) I am now engaged ;) > > > > So, conversation topic #1 for next month: > > - PyStage, an animation framework (or, How To Propose To Your Fiance > > Using Python) > > > > (..Yes, the presentation will be done entirely in PyStage too ;) > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago mailing list > > Chicago at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080102/f2c4dbda/attachment.htm From bray at sent.com Wed Jan 2 19:19:46 2008 From: bray at sent.com (bray at sent.com) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 12:19:46 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] January venue? In-Reply-To: References: <47620E15.6080700@colorstudy.com> <77B48D6A-6B59-487E-B174-D756397F5DAD@gmail.com> <3B29724C-6025-449C-AB73-EC40102FFE79@sent.com> <6BBC8743-A8A8-4E25-AD0B-72D505112B00@gmail.com> <7B028E95-981E-4ECE-9035-4CACD913E89E@sent.com> Message-ID: <1199297986.2679.1229137441@webmail.messagingengine.com> I will put this on the wiki. Also, I will be sending out an announcement once we get all the presenters lined up. Robert, thanks for hosting and keeping this moving forward. On Tue, 1 Jan 2008 17:11:15 -0600, "Robert Zeh" said: > > I'm finalizing everything at GETCO for the January meeting. It turns > out that the space Brian's been at will not be available, but there is > another space we can use: > > Club Quarters, Central Loop > 111 West Adams Street > (Next to the Rookery and near LaSalle) > Chicago, IL 60603 > > > Assume no internet access. I will bring my macbook pro and cellular > modem just in case, but the modem's always been pretty flaky. > > It would be helpful if people would RSVP me by the Tuesday before so I > can get the right amount of food. > > Robert > From bray at sent.com Wed Jan 2 19:36:38 2008 From: bray at sent.com (bray at sent.com) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 12:36:38 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] January venue? In-Reply-To: <1199297986.2679.1229137441@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <47620E15.6080700@colorstudy.com> <77B48D6A-6B59-487E-B174-D756397F5DAD@gmail.com> <3B29724C-6025-449C-AB73-EC40102FFE79@sent.com> <6BBC8743-A8A8-4E25-AD0B-72D505112B00@gmail.com> <7B028E95-981E-4ECE-9035-4CACD913E89E@sent.com> <1199297986.2679.1229137441@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <1199298998.6306.1229140377@webmail.messagingengine.com> So far: * PyStage, an animation framework -- Christopher Allan Webber * CouchDB -- Garrett Smith * pickle module -- Atul Varma * Python Scripting for OpenOffice -- Steve Githens This sounds good to me. Did I miss anyone? From pohara at virtualmotors.com Wed Jan 2 19:54:37 2008 From: pohara at virtualmotors.com (Patrick O'Hara) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 11:54:37 -0700 Subject: [Chicago] January venue? Message-ID: <1d46ab438dc24a4ba175cd40824e706c@maila24.webcontrolcenter.com> R.S.V.P THANKS > > > Assume no internet access. I will bring my macbook pro and cellular > modem just in case, but the modem's always been pretty flaky. It has a projector/screen, right? Carl K _______________________________________________ Chicago mailing list Chicago at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080102/5aea13c0/attachment.htm From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com Wed Jan 2 20:32:21 2008 From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 13:32:21 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Conversation topics for January In-Reply-To: <361b27370801020948t729d42a1maee4aa1f629208e0@mail.gmail.com> References: <6yd4t4hseh.fsf@imagepc03.rd.imagescape.com> <477720E4.8020606@caret.cam.ac.uk> <361b27370801020948t729d42a1maee4aa1f629208e0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3096c19d0801021132w4310b286w3eb2433c7a0c288@mail.gmail.com> Could everyone put their proposed talks up on the Wiki? My gut says we'll probably be able to get to all of them... On Jan 2, 2008 11:48 AM, Atul Varma wrote: > If there is any interest, I'd like to give a newbie-and-expert-friendly talk > on the venerable "pickle" module. > > - Atul > > > > On Dec 29, 2007 10:39 PM, swg < sgithens at caret.cam.ac.uk> wrote: > > If there's time and interest, I'd have fun doing a lightening talk about > > Python scripting support in OpenOffice if it hasn't been covered in a > > meeting yet. > > > > -Steve > > > > > > > > > > Christopher Allan Webber wrote: > > > So I'm starting a separate thread to discuss topics for January. Not > > > really the same conversation as the venue, so.. > > > > > > I've claimed dibs on presenting this month since I forefitted > > > last month (okay, I needed some more time to prepare the animation > > > system too, but..) > > > > > > Last month it was a totally theoretical animation system. But this > > > month it's no longer theoretical... I proposed using the animation > > > system, and I'm happy to say that not only did it run successfully, > > > but (partly because of it,) I am now engaged ;) > > > > > > So, conversation topic #1 for next month: > > > - PyStage, an animation framework (or, How To Propose To Your Fiance > > > Using Python) > > > > > > (..Yes, the presentation will be done entirely in PyStage too ;) > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Chicago mailing list > > > Chicago at python.org > > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago mailing list > > Chicago at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > From sgithens at caret.cam.ac.uk Wed Jan 2 20:41:00 2008 From: sgithens at caret.cam.ac.uk (swg) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 13:41:00 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Conversation topics for January In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0801021132w4310b286w3eb2433c7a0c288@mail.gmail.com> References: <6yd4t4hseh.fsf@imagepc03.rd.imagescape.com> <477720E4.8020606@caret.cam.ac.uk> <361b27370801020948t729d42a1maee4aa1f629208e0@mail.gmail.com> <3096c19d0801021132w4310b286w3eb2433c7a0c288@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <477BE8CC.8070300@caret.cam.ac.uk> I think Brian already posted them up there. s Chris McAvoy wrote: > Could everyone put their proposed talks up on the Wiki? My gut says > we'll probably be able to get to all of them... > > On Jan 2, 2008 11:48 AM, Atul Varma wrote: > >> If there is any interest, I'd like to give a newbie-and-expert-friendly talk >> on the venerable "pickle" module. >> >> - Atul >> >> >> >> On Dec 29, 2007 10:39 PM, swg < sgithens at caret.cam.ac.uk> wrote: >> >>> If there's time and interest, I'd have fun doing a lightening talk about >>> Python scripting support in OpenOffice if it hasn't been covered in a >>> meeting yet. >>> >>> -Steve >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Christopher Allan Webber wrote: >>> >>>> So I'm starting a separate thread to discuss topics for January. Not >>>> really the same conversation as the venue, so.. >>>> >>>> I've claimed dibs on presenting this month since I forefitted >>>> last month (okay, I needed some more time to prepare the animation >>>> system too, but..) >>>> >>>> Last month it was a totally theoretical animation system. But this >>>> month it's no longer theoretical... I proposed using the animation >>>> system, and I'm happy to say that not only did it run successfully, >>>> but (partly because of it,) I am now engaged ;) >>>> >>>> So, conversation topic #1 for next month: >>>> - PyStage, an animation framework (or, How To Propose To Your Fiance >>>> Using Python) >>>> >>>> (..Yes, the presentation will be done entirely in PyStage too ;) >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Chicago mailing list >>>> Chicago at python.org >>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Chicago mailing list >>> Chicago at python.org >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Chicago mailing list >> Chicago at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com Wed Jan 2 20:43:44 2008 From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 13:43:44 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Conversation topics for January In-Reply-To: <477BE8CC.8070300@caret.cam.ac.uk> References: <6yd4t4hseh.fsf@imagepc03.rd.imagescape.com> <477720E4.8020606@caret.cam.ac.uk> <361b27370801020948t729d42a1maee4aa1f629208e0@mail.gmail.com> <3096c19d0801021132w4310b286w3eb2433c7a0c288@mail.gmail.com> <477BE8CC.8070300@caret.cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: <3096c19d0801021143xb9f9ccice46fa91f0c83bf6@mail.gmail.com> Sorry, my gmail was behind. Thanks Brian. Chris On Jan 2, 2008 1:41 PM, swg wrote: > I think Brian already posted them up there. > > s > > > Chris McAvoy wrote: > > Could everyone put their proposed talks up on the Wiki? My gut says > > we'll probably be able to get to all of them... > > > > On Jan 2, 2008 11:48 AM, Atul Varma wrote: > > > >> If there is any interest, I'd like to give a newbie-and-expert-friendly talk > >> on the venerable "pickle" module. > >> > >> - Atul > >> > >> > >> > >> On Dec 29, 2007 10:39 PM, swg < sgithens at caret.cam.ac.uk> wrote: > >> > >>> If there's time and interest, I'd have fun doing a lightening talk about > >>> Python scripting support in OpenOffice if it hasn't been covered in a > >>> meeting yet. > >>> > >>> -Steve > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Christopher Allan Webber wrote: > >>> > >>>> So I'm starting a separate thread to discuss topics for January. Not > >>>> really the same conversation as the venue, so.. > >>>> > >>>> I've claimed dibs on presenting this month since I forefitted > >>>> last month (okay, I needed some more time to prepare the animation > >>>> system too, but..) > >>>> > >>>> Last month it was a totally theoretical animation system. But this > >>>> month it's no longer theoretical... I proposed using the animation > >>>> system, and I'm happy to say that not only did it run successfully, > >>>> but (partly because of it,) I am now engaged ;) > >>>> > >>>> So, conversation topic #1 for next month: > >>>> - PyStage, an animation framework (or, How To Propose To Your Fiance > >>>> Using Python) > >>>> > >>>> (..Yes, the presentation will be done entirely in PyStage too ;) > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Chicago mailing list > >>>> Chicago at python.org > >>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Chicago mailing list > >>> Chicago at python.org > >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > >>> > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Chicago mailing list > >> Chicago at python.org > >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > >> > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago mailing list > > Chicago at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > From robert.a.zeh at gmail.com Thu Jan 3 01:04:54 2008 From: robert.a.zeh at gmail.com (Robert Zeh) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 18:04:54 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] January venue? In-Reply-To: <477BBDA1.7090004@personnelware.com> References: <47620E15.6080700@colorstudy.com> <77B48D6A-6B59-487E-B174-D756397F5DAD@gmail.com> <3B29724C-6025-449C-AB73-EC40102FFE79@sent.com> <6BBC8743-A8A8-4E25-AD0B-72D505112B00@gmail.com> <7B028E95-981E-4ECE-9035-4CACD913E89E@sent.com> <477BBDA1.7090004@personnelware.com> Message-ID: Yes. For paranoia's sake I will verify that it works with my macbook pro earlier that Thursday. Robert On Jan 2, 2008, at 10:36 AM, Carl Karsten wrote: > Robert Zeh wrote: >> >> I'm finalizing everything at GETCO for the January meeting. It turns >> out that the space Brian's been at will not be available, but there >> is >> another space we can use: >> >> Club Quarters, Central Loop >> 111 West Adams Street >> (Next to the Rookery and near LaSalle) >> Chicago, IL 60603 >> >> >> Assume no internet access. I will bring my macbook pro and cellular >> modem just in case, but the modem's always been pretty flaky. > > It has a projector/screen, right? > > Carl K > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago From pohara at virtualmotors.com Thu Jan 3 05:14:38 2008 From: pohara at virtualmotors.com (Patrick O'Hara) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 22:14:38 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] January venue? References: <47620E15.6080700@colorstudy.com> <77B48D6A-6B59-487E-B174-D756397F5DAD@gmail.com> <3B29724C-6025-449C-AB73-EC40102FFE79@sent.com> <6BBC8743-A8A8-4E25-AD0B-72D505112B00@gmail.com> <7B028E95-981E-4ECE-9035-4CACD913E89E@sent.com><477BBDA1.7090004@personnelware.com> Message-ID: <001d01c84dbf$28a6a000$8802a8c0@IBMUO5W0HB49M3> parnoia? hmm is that adolescent for just being pepared right? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Zeh" To: "The Chicago Python Users Group" Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 6:04 PM Subject: Re: [Chicago] January venue? > Yes. For paranoia's sake I will verify that it works with my macbook > pro earlier that Thursday. > > Robert > > On Jan 2, 2008, at 10:36 AM, Carl Karsten wrote: > >> Robert Zeh wrote: >>> >>> I'm finalizing everything at GETCO for the January meeting. It turns >>> out that the space Brian's been at will not be available, but there >>> is >>> another space we can use: >>> >>> Club Quarters, Central Loop >>> 111 West Adams Street >>> (Next to the Rookery and near LaSalle) >>> Chicago, IL 60603 >>> >>> >>> Assume no internet access. I will bring my macbook pro and cellular >>> modem just in case, but the modem's always been pretty flaky. >> >> It has a projector/screen, right? >> >> Carl K >> _______________________________________________ >> Chicago mailing list >> Chicago at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > From mtobis at gmail.com Thu Jan 3 01:44:44 2008 From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 18:44:44 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Video capture? Message-ID: I am now in the outer outer outer suburbs (central Texas) and will not be able to make this meeting unfortunately. (Here's some cognitive dissonance for those who know me: I now own a low slung ranch house on a street with no sidewalks. With shiny brass doorknobs. And a propane grill in the back yard. Just two minutes from the freeway ramp. Aag. So much for urban snobbery. Some sort of karmic comeuppance I suppose.) Anyway I have been to other PUGs and they just don't compare. Is there any way I can convince you guys to start capturing these things to video? Just an audio stream and the slides would be wonderful. best mt From bray at sent.com Sat Jan 5 03:42:27 2008 From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 20:42:27 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Video capture? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C6AD6D5-E578-46FD-9049-D7949FB12AEA@sent.com> On Jan 2, 2008, at 6:44 PM, Michael Tobis wrote: > > Just an audio stream and the slides would be wonderful. Hi mt. Hope all is well in Texas. I will video/audio record the meeting during presentations. If a presenter specifically does not want recorded, they need to let me know ahead of time and I will turn the recorder off. I will make the recording available online. Disclaimer """I take no responsibility nor do I necessarily share the views of any presenter. I may not even like the presenter--esp. in cases where they present on PERL at a ChiPy meeting ;) Furthermore, I may have technical difficulties doing just about anything. Take this disclaimer for instance. And if I never end up posting the video, that meant I probably accidentally recorded over the damn video (like I always do) and you will just have wait for the video of next month's meeting or come to the meeting and video record it yourself! """ Any objects with me recording the presentations make yourself heard. Brian Ray bray at sent.com http://kazavoo.com/blog From damien at grassart.com Sat Jan 5 21:11:47 2008 From: damien at grassart.com (Damien Grassart) Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 21:11:47 +0100 Subject: [Chicago] Video capture? In-Reply-To: <2C6AD6D5-E578-46FD-9049-D7949FB12AEA@sent.com> References: <2C6AD6D5-E578-46FD-9049-D7949FB12AEA@sent.com> Message-ID: On 1/5/08, Brian Ray wrote: > > I will video/audio record the meeting during presentations. Having just recently moved to France, this will be awesome! -Damien -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080105/b0df1494/attachment.htm From robert.a.zeh at gmail.com Sat Jan 5 22:46:30 2008 From: robert.a.zeh at gmail.com (Robert Zeh) Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 15:46:30 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] January 2008 Meeting Message-ID: Chicago Python User Group ========================= Come join us for our best meeting ever! Thursday Jan. 10, 2008 Meeting starts at 7:00 pm (I'll try to have food there around 6:30) Please RSVPto Robert Zeh, robert.a.zeh at gmail dot com by 1/7/08 so he can order the right amount of food. Topics ------ PyStage, an animation framework -- Christopher Allan Webber CouchDB -- Garrett Smith pickle module -- Atul Varma Python Scripting for OpenOffice -- Steve Githens Location -------- GETCO Club Quarters, Central Loop 111 West Adams Street (Next to the Rookery and near LaSalle) Chicago, IL 60603 Location description: Upstairs from Elephant and Castle. 1. The closest "L" stop is Jackson on the Blue line and Quincy/Wells on the on the "Blue/Green/Orange/Brown/Purple Line". (All are about an 5 minute walk) 2. The closest Metra station is the Ogilvie Transportation Center (in the Citibank building) (about 15 minutes walk) About ChiPy ----------- ChiPy is a group of Chicago Python Programmers, l33t, and n00bs. Meetings are held monthly at various locations around Chicago. Also, ChiPy is a proud sponsor of many Open Source and Educational efforts in Chicago. Stay tuned to the mailing list for more info. ChiPy website: ChiPy Mailing List: Python website: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080105/f9562865/attachment.htm From pohara at virtualmotors.com Sun Jan 6 03:16:02 2008 From: pohara at virtualmotors.com (Patrick O'Hara) Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 19:16:02 -0700 Subject: [Chicago] January 2008 Meeting Message-ID: <166929bcf3b74c78a71e2e84e792ee32@maila24.webcontrolcenter.com> this function fib()doesn't workit prints 0 0 00 0 00 00 000000 0 0 00 0 00 00 000000 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080105/fb1ba562/attachment.htm From pohara at virtualmotors.com Sun Jan 6 03:25:28 2008 From: pohara at virtualmotors.com (Patrick O'Hara) Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 19:25:28 -0700 Subject: [Chicago] Python Tutorial 4.6 function fib() Message-ID: fib(n): # Fibonacci a,b=0,1 while b < n: print b, a,b = b, a*b it doesn't workit prints 0 0 00 0 00 00 000000 0 0 00 0 00 00 000000 0 0 00 0 00 00 000000 0 0 00 0 00 00 000000 0 0 00 0 00 00 000000 0 0 00 0 00 00 000000 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080105/8c29349a/attachment.htm From tcp at mac.com Sun Jan 6 03:54:46 2008 From: tcp at mac.com (Ted Pollari) Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 20:54:46 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Python Tutorial 4.6 function fib() In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jan 5, 2008, at 8:25 PM, Patrick O'Hara wrote: > fib(n): # Fibonacci > a,b=0,1 > while b < n: > print b, > a,b = b, a*b > a,b = b, a+b see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibonacci_number From pohara at virtualmotors.com Sun Jan 6 05:47:55 2008 From: pohara at virtualmotors.com (Patrick O'Hara) Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 21:47:55 -0700 Subject: [Chicago] Python Tutorial 4.6 function fib() Message-ID: uh you did not answer the questionwhy did the def fib(n):fail to work on pythonor my MacBookPro w/ Leopard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080105/2c9efb06/attachment.htm From jsudlow at gmail.com Sun Jan 6 08:25:59 2008 From: jsudlow at gmail.com (Jon Sudlow) Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 01:25:59 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Python Tutorial 4.6 function fib() In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oh this question really irrated me last year in school. In python their is actually a really slick solution. Mine isn't the 'slickist' but I think its straight forward enouph for you to understand whats happening. With fib(n) you can say, if n starts at 0, you need at least two numbers to get the fibonaci sequence going. Here is my code: def fib(): #Print Welcome Message print "Welcome to the fibanocci nth term lookup utility" #Get Input nthTerm = input('Please enter a number greater then 1. ') #Process the input --^ #Initilize first two values for sequence first = 0 second = 1 #You have to define the first two values for the sequence, 0 and 1 #these are the values you start with. A temp variable holds #the resulting addition. Then the first variable is assigned the #value of the second variable and the second variable is assigned #the value of the previous addition held in temp. We want one less then #what range will give us, because we are prohibiting use of fib(0) and fib(1). for i in range(nthTerm - 1): temp = first + second #sexy double-assignment first, second = second, temp #Print the output print "The result is ", temp On Jan 5, 2008 10:47 PM, Patrick O'Hara wrote: > uh you did not answer the question why did the def fib(n): > fail to work > on python > or my MacBookPro w/ Leopard > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > -- Jon Sudlow 3225 Foster Avenue 221 Sohlberg Hall C.P.O 2224 Chicago, Il 60625 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080106/6b8d7574/attachment.htm From ken at stox.org Sun Jan 6 09:33:43 2008 From: ken at stox.org (Kenneth P. Stox) Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 02:33:43 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Python Tutorial 4.6 function fib() In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1199608423.9450.24.camel@stox.dyndns.org> Welcome to the wonderful world of recursion: def fib(n): if n<2: return n else: return fib(n-2)+fib(n-1) From shekay at pobox.com Sun Jan 6 17:26:26 2008 From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez) Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 10:26:26 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Python Tutorial 4.6 function fib() In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jan 5, 2008 10:47 PM, Patrick O'Hara wrote: > uh you did not answer the question > why did the def fib(n): > fail to work > on python > or my MacBookPro w/ Leopard Ted answered your question. what you typed here is wrong > > a,b = b, a*b Ted corrected it > a,b = b, a+b So, the reason the function you typed from the tutorial didn't work is that you didn't type it correctly. reread http://docs.python.org/tut/node6.html#SECTION006600000000000000000 -- sheila From jsudlow at gmail.com Sun Jan 6 22:10:59 2008 From: jsudlow at gmail.com (Jon Sudlow) Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 15:10:59 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Python Tutorial 4.6 function fib() In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Like I said, their are slicker solutions like recursion. Nice fib in five lines.The next time someone asks me about a fib sequence I'll be fully loaded ;) Thanks, Jon On Jan 6, 2008 10:26 AM, sheila miguez wrote: > On Jan 5, 2008 10:47 PM, Patrick O'Hara wrote: > > uh you did not answer the question > > why did the def fib(n): > > fail to work > > on python > > or my MacBookPro w/ Leopard > > Ted answered your question. > > > what you typed here is wrong > > > a,b = b, a*b > > Ted corrected it > > a,b = b, a+b > > So, the reason the function you typed from the tutorial didn't work is > that you didn't type it correctly. > > reread > > http://docs.python.org/tut/node6.html#SECTION006600000000000000000 > > > > -- > sheila > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > -- Jon Sudlow 3225 Foster Avenue 221 Sohlberg Hall C.P.O 2224 Chicago, Il 60625 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080106/1117444c/attachment.htm From zibble at gmail.com Sun Jan 6 22:29:16 2008 From: zibble at gmail.com (Scott Zibble) Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 15:29:16 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Python Tutorial 4.6 function fib() In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think part of the reason this may be complex for some people is because it doesn't come back to the concept if idealized bees. I'm pretty sure that's why McAvoy hasn't responded in this thread yet. >From Wikipedia: Fibonacci numbers also appear in the description of the reproduction of a population of idealized bees, according to the following rules: - If an egg is laid by an unmated female, it hatches a male. - If, however, an egg was fertilized by a male, it hatches a female. Thus, a male bee will always have one parent, and a female bee will have two. If one traces the ancestry of any male bee (1 bee), he has 1 female parent (1 bee). This female had 2 parents, a male and a female (2 bees). The female had two parents, a male and a female, and the male had one female (3 bees). Those two females each had two parents, and the male had one (5 bees). This sequence of numbers of parents is the Fibonacci sequence.[23] This is an idealization that does not describe *actual* bee ancestries. In reality, some ancestors of a particular bee will always be sisters or brothers, thus breaking the lineage of distinct parents. On Jan 6, 2008 3:10 PM, Jon Sudlow wrote: > Like I said, their are slicker solutions like recursion. Nice fib in five > lines.The next time someone asks me about a fib sequence I'll be fully > loaded ;) > > Thanks, > Jon > > > On Jan 6, 2008 10:26 AM, sheila miguez < shekay at pobox.com> wrote: > > > On Jan 5, 2008 10:47 PM, Patrick O'Hara < pohara at virtualmotors.com> > > wrote: > > > uh you did not answer the question > > > why did the def fib(n): > > > fail to work > > > on python > > > or my MacBookPro w/ Leopard > > > > Ted answered your question. > > > > > > what you typed here is wrong > > > > a,b = b, a*b > > > > Ted corrected it > > > a,b = b, a+b > > > > So, the reason the function you typed from the tutorial didn't work is > > that you didn't type it correctly. > > > > reread > > > > http://docs.python.org/tut/node6.html#SECTION006600000000000000000 > > > > > > > > -- > > sheila > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago mailing list > > Chicago at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > > > > > -- > Jon Sudlow > 3225 Foster Avenue > 221 Sohlberg Hall > C.P.O 2224 > Chicago, Il 60625 > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080106/675b354d/attachment.htm From aharrin at luc.edu Mon Jan 7 01:01:21 2008 From: aharrin at luc.edu (Andrew Harrington) Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 18:01:21 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Chicago Digest, Vol 29, Issue 6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Short and sweet in theory, but awful exponential run time! Andy Message: 8 > Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 02:33:43 -0600 > From: "Kenneth P. Stox" > Subject: Re: [Chicago] Python Tutorial 4.6 function fib() > To: The Chicago Python Users Group > Message-ID: <1199608423.9450.24.camel at stox.dyndns.org> > Content-Type: text/plain > > Welcome to the wonderful world of recursion: > > def fib(n): > if n<2: > return n > else: > return fib(n-2)+fib(n-1) > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > > End of Chicago Digest, Vol 29, Issue 6 > ************************************** > -- Andrew N. Harrington Director of Academic Programs Computer Science Department Loyola University Chicago 512B Lewis Towers (office) Snail mail to Lewis Towers 416 820 North Michigan Avenue Chicago, Illinois 60611 http://www.cs.luc.edu/~anh Phone: 312-915-7999 Fax: 312-915-7998 gdp at cs.luc.edu for graduate administration upd at cs.luc.edu for undergrad administration aharrin at luc.edu as professor -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080106/a56dd70b/attachment.htm From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu Mon Jan 7 01:21:02 2008 From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro) Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 18:21:02 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Chicago Digest, Vol 29, Issue 6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6859CF6B-01D3-421A-83AA-55D244EBF393@cs.depaul.edu> This gets all of them right up to n=75 (with python double precision arithmetic) then you start have a small discrepancy on the last digit. But it theta(1) (no loops and no recursion) def fib(n): f5=math.sqrt(5) a,b=(1.0+f5)/2,(1-f5)/2 epsilon=0.5 # takes care of rounding errors return int((a**n-b**n)/f5+epsilon) Massimo On Jan 6, 2008, at 6:01 PM, Andrew Harrington wrote: > Short and sweet in theory, but awful exponential run time! > Andy > > Message: 8 > Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 02:33:43 -0600 > From: "Kenneth P. Stox" > Subject: Re: [Chicago] Python Tutorial 4.6 function fib() > To: The Chicago Python Users Group < chicago at python.org> > Message-ID: <1199608423.9450.24.camel at stox.dyndns.org> > Content-Type: text/plain > > Welcome to the wonderful world of recursion: > > def fib(n): > if n<2: > return n > else: > return fib(n-2)+fib(n-1) > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > > End of Chicago Digest, Vol 29, Issue 6 > ************************************** > > > > -- > Andrew N. Harrington > Director of Academic Programs > Computer Science Department > Loyola University Chicago > 512B Lewis Towers (office) > Snail mail to Lewis Towers 416 > 820 North Michigan Avenue > Chicago, Illinois 60611 > > http://www.cs.luc.edu/~anh > Phone: 312-915-7999 > Fax: 312-915-7998 > gdp at cs.luc.edu for graduate administration > upd at cs.luc.edu for undergrad administration > aharrin at luc.edu as professor -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080106/40017fbc/attachment.htm From jeffh at dundeemt.com Mon Jan 7 01:25:14 2008 From: jeffh at dundeemt.com (Jeff Hinrichs - DM&T) Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 18:25:14 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Chicago Digest, Vol 29, Issue 6 In-Reply-To: <6859CF6B-01D3-421A-83AA-55D244EBF393@cs.depaul.edu> References: <6859CF6B-01D3-421A-83AA-55D244EBF393@cs.depaul.edu> Message-ID: <5aaed53f0801061625x44bba548q4d3ecb926192c046@mail.gmail.com> Ok, I couldn't resist. def fib_nr(n): """non-recursive version of fibonacci""" prev = -1 result = 1 for i in xrange(n+1): sum = result + prev prev = result result = sum return result On Jan 6, 2008 6:21 PM, Massimo Di Pierro wrote: > > This gets all of them right up to n=75 (with python double precision > arithmetic) then you start have a small discrepancy on the last digit. > But it theta(1) (no loops and no recursion) > > def fib(n): > f5=math.sqrt(5) > a,b=(1.0+f5)/2,(1-f5)/2 > epsilon=0.5 # takes care of rounding errors > return int((a**n-b**n)/f5+epsilon) > > Massimo > > > > On Jan 6, 2008, at 6:01 PM, Andrew Harrington wrote: > > > Short and sweet in theory, but awful exponential run time! > Andy > > > > Message: 8 > > Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 02:33:43 -0600 > > From: "Kenneth P. Stox" > > Subject: Re: [Chicago] Python Tutorial 4.6 function fib() > > To: The Chicago Python Users Group < chicago at python.org> > > Message-ID: <1199608423.9450.24.camel at stox.dyndns.org> > > Content-Type: text/plain > > > > Welcome to the wonderful world of recursion: > > > > def fib(n): > > if n<2: > > return n > > else: > > return fib(n-2)+fib(n-1) > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago mailing list > > Chicago at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > > > > > End of Chicago Digest, Vol 29, Issue 6 > > ************************************** > > > > > > -- > Andrew N. Harrington > Director of Academic Programs > Computer Science Department > Loyola University Chicago > 512B Lewis Towers (office) > Snail mail to Lewis Towers 416 > 820 North Michigan Avenue > Chicago, Illinois 60611 > > http://www.cs.luc.edu/~anh > Phone: 312-915-7999 > Fax: 312-915-7998 > gdp at cs.luc.edu for graduate administration > upd at cs.luc.edu for undergrad administration > aharrin at luc.edu as professor > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > -- Jeff Hinrichs Dundee Media & Technology, Inc jeffh at dundeemt.com 402.218.1473 From david at graniteweb.com Mon Jan 7 08:05:14 2008 From: david at graniteweb.com (David Rock) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 01:05:14 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] January venue? In-Reply-To: References: <47620E15.6080700@colorstudy.com> <77B48D6A-6B59-487E-B174-D756397F5DAD@gmail.com> <3B29724C-6025-449C-AB73-EC40102FFE79@sent.com> <6BBC8743-A8A8-4E25-AD0B-72D505112B00@gmail.com> <7B028E95-981E-4ECE-9035-4CACD913E89E@sent.com> <477BBDA1.7090004@personnelware.com> Message-ID: It's only paranoia if it's not justified. On 1/2/08, Robert Zeh wrote: > > Yes. For paranoia's sake I will verify that it works with my macbook > pro earlier that Thursday. > > Robert > > On Jan 2, 2008, at 10:36 AM, Carl Karsten wrote: > > > Robert Zeh wrote: > >> > >> I'm finalizing everything at GETCO for the January meeting. It turns > >> out that the space Brian's been at will not be available, but there > >> is > >> another space we can use: > >> > >> Club Quarters, Central Loop > >> 111 West Adams Street > >> (Next to the Rookery and near LaSalle) > >> Chicago, IL 60603 > >> > >> > >> Assume no internet access. I will bring my macbook pro and cellular > >> modem just in case, but the modem's always been pretty flaky. > > > > It has a projector/screen, right? > > > > Carl K > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago mailing list > > Chicago at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > -- David Rock david at graniteweb.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080107/11352b58/attachment.htm From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com Mon Jan 7 16:41:38 2008 From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 09:41:38 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Python Tutorial 4.6 function fib() In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3096c19d0801070741u4fdcf139i4fc1978a4d609605@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 6, 2008 3:29 PM, Scott Zibble wrote: > I think part of the reason this may be complex for some people is because it > doesn't come back to the concept if idealized bees. I always thought it was about rabbits. Weird. Bees huh? Maybe I'll solve this up for everyone...real soon. Chris From bradyc at google.com Mon Jan 7 18:22:21 2008 From: bradyc at google.com (Brady Cox) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 11:22:21 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] January 2008 Meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2dfd89af0801070922sc253bb4s9bb54a69ccc58614@mail.gmail.com> I intend to attend. On Jan 5, 2008 3:46 PM, Robert Zeh wrote: > Chicago Python User Group > ========================= > > Come join us for our best meeting ever! > > Thursday Jan. 10, 2008 > > Meeting starts at 7:00 pm (I'll try to have food there around 6:30) > > Please RSVPto Robert Zeh, robert.a.zeh at gmail dot com by 1/7/08 so he can order the right amount of food. > > Topics > ------ > > - PyStage, an animation framework -- Christopher Allan Webber > - CouchDB -- Garrett Smith > - pickle module -- Atul Varma > - Python Scripting for OpenOffice -- Steve Githens > > > > Location > -------- > > > GETCO > > Club Quarters, Central Loop > > 111 West Adams Street > > (Next to the Rookery and near LaSalle) > > Chicago, IL 60603 > > > Location description: > Upstairs from Elephant and Castle. > > > > 1. The closest "L" stop is Jackson on the Blue line and Quincy/Wells on the on the > "Blue/Green/Orange/Brown/Purple Line". (All are about an 5 minute walk) > 2. The closest Metra station is the Ogilvie Transportation Center (in the Citibank building) (about 15 minutes walk) > > About ChiPy > ----------- > > ChiPy is a group of Chicago Python Programmers, l33t, and n00bs. > Meetings are held monthly at various locations around Chicago. > Also, ChiPy is a proud sponsor of many Open Source and Educational > efforts in Chicago. Stay tuned to the mailing list for more info. > > ChiPy website: > ChiPy Mailing List: > Python website: > > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > -- Brady Cox Google Chicago Datacenter Artisan/Professional Owning Critic Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the contents of this message by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited without written consent from Major League Baseball. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080107/218cbb49/attachment.htm From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu Mon Jan 7 18:25:25 2008 From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 11:25:25 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] January 2008 Meeting In-Reply-To: <2dfd89af0801070922sc253bb4s9bb54a69ccc58614@mail.gmail.com> References: <2dfd89af0801070922sc253bb4s9bb54a69ccc58614@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Too bad I always teach on Thursday night this year. It would be great if you could record the meetings. Massimo On Jan 7, 2008, at 11:22 AM, Brady Cox wrote: > I intend to attend. > > On Jan 5, 2008 3:46 PM, Robert Zeh wrote: > Chicago Python User Group > ========================= > > Come join us for our best meeting ever! > Thursday Jan. 10, 2008 > > Meeting starts at 7:00 pm (I'll try to have food there around 6:30) > > Please RSVPto Robert Zeh, robert.a.zeh at gmail dot com by 1/7/08 > so he can order the right amount of food. > > Topics > ------ > PyStage, an animation framework -- Christopher Allan Webber > CouchDB -- Garrett Smith > pickle module -- Atul Varma > Python Scripting for OpenOffice -- Steve Githens > > > Location > -------- > > GETCO > > Club Quarters, Central Loop > > 111 West Adams Street > > (Next to the Rookery and near LaSalle) > > Chicago, IL 60603 > > > > Location description: > Upstairs from Elephant and Castle. > > > > 1. The closest "L" stop is Jackson on the Blue line and Quincy/ > Wells on the on the > "Blue/Green/Orange/Brown/Purple Line". (All are about an 5 minute > walk) > 2. The closest Metra station is the Ogilvie Transportation Center > (in the Citibank building) (about 15 minutes walk) > > About ChiPy > ----------- > > ChiPy is a group of Chicago Python Programmers, l33t, and n00bs. > Meetings are held monthly at various locations around Chicago. > Also, ChiPy is a proud sponsor of many Open Source and Educational > efforts in Chicago. Stay tuned to the mailing list for more info. > > ChiPy website: > ChiPy Mailing List: > Python website: > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > > > > -- > Brady Cox > Google Chicago > Datacenter Artisan/Professional Owning Critic > > Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the contents of > this message by anyone other than the intended recipient is > strictly prohibited without written consent from Major League > Baseball. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080107/0fc141ca/attachment.htm From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu Mon Jan 7 18:34:34 2008 From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 11:34:34 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] January 2008 Meeting In-Reply-To: References: <2dfd89af0801070922sc253bb4s9bb54a69ccc58614@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I am teaching a course at DePaul on Tuesday evenings on web frameworks. I am looking for two guest speakers to talk about Django and Pylons (any Tuesday in February). I can cover the topics myself but it would be great to have some of the authors in class. Let me know if you are interested. Those guest lectures could be open to the public. Massimo On Jan 7, 2008, at 11:25 AM, Massimo Di Pierro wrote: > Too bad I always teach on Thursday night this year. It would be > great if you could record the meetings. > > Massimo > > On Jan 7, 2008, at 11:22 AM, Brady Cox wrote: > >> I intend to attend. >> >> On Jan 5, 2008 3:46 PM, Robert Zeh wrote: >> Chicago Python User Group >> ========================= >> >> Come join us for our best meeting ever! >> Thursday Jan. 10, 2008 >> >> Meeting starts at 7:00 pm (I'll try to have food there around 6:30) >> >> Please RSVPto Robert Zeh, robert.a.zeh at gmail dot com by 1/7/08 >> so he can order the right amount of food. >> >> Topics >> ------ >> PyStage, an animation framework -- Christopher Allan Webber >> CouchDB -- Garrett Smith >> pickle module -- Atul Varma >> Python Scripting for OpenOffice -- Steve Githens >> >> >> Location >> -------- >> >> GETCO >> >> Club Quarters, Central Loop >> >> 111 West Adams Street >> >> (Next to the Rookery and near LaSalle) >> >> Chicago, IL 60603 >> >> >> >> Location description: >> Upstairs from Elephant and Castle. >> >> >> >> 1. The closest "L" stop is Jackson on the Blue line and Quincy/ >> Wells on the on the >> "Blue/Green/Orange/Brown/Purple Line". (All are about an 5 minute >> walk) >> 2. The closest Metra station is the Ogilvie Transportation Center >> (in the Citibank building) (about 15 minutes walk) >> >> About ChiPy >> ----------- >> >> ChiPy is a group of Chicago Python Programmers, l33t, and n00bs. >> Meetings are held monthly at various locations around Chicago. >> Also, ChiPy is a proud sponsor of many Open Source and Educational >> efforts in Chicago. Stay tuned to the mailing list for more info. >> >> ChiPy website: >> ChiPy Mailing List: >> Python website: >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Chicago mailing list >> Chicago at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Brady Cox >> Google Chicago >> Datacenter Artisan/Professional Owning Critic >> >> Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the contents of >> this message by anyone other than the intended recipient is >> strictly prohibited without written consent from Major League >> Baseball. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080107/058913da/attachment.htm From tottinge at gmail.com Mon Jan 7 21:09:59 2008 From: tottinge at gmail.com (Tim Ottinger) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 14:09:59 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] January 2008 Meeting In-Reply-To: <2dfd89af0801070922sc253bb4s9bb54a69ccc58614@mail.gmail.com> References: <2dfd89af0801070922sc253bb4s9bb54a69ccc58614@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47828717.4030501@gmail.com> As do I. My first one. Brady Cox wrote: > I intend to attend. > > On Jan 5, 2008 3:46 PM, Robert Zeh > wrote: > > Chicago Python User Group > ========================= > > Come join us for our best meeting ever! > > Thursday Jan. 10, 2008 > > Meeting starts at 7:00 pm (I'll try to have food there around 6:30) > > Please RSVPto Robert Zeh, robert.a.zeh at gmail dot com by 1/7/08 > so he can order the right amount of food. > > > Topics > ------ > > * PyStage, an animation framework -- Christopher Allan Webber > * CouchDB -- Garrett Smith > * pickle module -- Atul Varma > * Python Scripting for OpenOffice -- Steve Githens > > > > Location > -------- > > > GETCO > > Club Quarters, Central Loop > > 111 West Adams Street > > (Next to the Rookery and near LaSalle) > > Chicago, IL 60603 > > > > Location description: > Upstairs from Elephant and Castle. > > > > 1. The closest "L" stop is Jackson on the Blue line and Quincy/Wells on the on the > "Blue/Green/Orange/Brown/Purple Line". (All are about an 5 minute walk) > 2. The closest Metra station is the Ogilvie Transportation Center (in the Citibank building) (about 15 minutes walk) > > About ChiPy > ----------- > > ChiPy is a group of Chicago Python Programmers, l33t, and n00bs. > Meetings are held monthly at various locations around Chicago. > Also, ChiPy is a proud sponsor of many Open Source and Educational > efforts in Chicago. Stay tuned to the mailing list for more info. > > ChiPy website: > > ChiPy Mailing List: > Python website: > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > > > > -- > Brady Cox > Google Chicago > Datacenter Artisan/Professional Owning Critic > > Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the contents of this > message by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly > prohibited without written consent from Major League Baseball. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > From carl at personnelware.com Mon Jan 7 21:30:06 2008 From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 14:30:06 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] January 2008 Meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47828BCE.2080707@personnelware.com> Robert Zeh wrote: > Chicago Python User Group > ========================= > > Come join us for our best meeting ever! > > > Thursday Jan. 10, 2008 > > Meeting starts at 7:00 pm (I'll try to have food there around 6:30) > > Please RSVPto Robert Zeh, robert.a.zeh at gmail dot com Technically, RSVPs here are not what was asked for. yes, somone can scrape the stuff from this list and add it to the other list, but lets not expect anyone too. Carl K From tcp at mac.com Mon Jan 7 22:28:06 2008 From: tcp at mac.com (Ted Pollari) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 15:28:06 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Good Tech Bookstores in Chicagoland? Message-ID: Hey ChiPy! Anyone know of any good technical or geek-skewed bookstores in Chicago? PyCons past have had a local tech oriented bookseller as an on-site vendor and we'd love to find a Chicago version of the same. Any suggestions? Thanks! -ted From goodger at python.org Mon Jan 7 22:56:10 2008 From: goodger at python.org (David Goodger) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 16:56:10 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Good Tech Bookstores in Chicagoland? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4335d2c40801071356j691db13eka1b78160e0f773c6@mail.gmail.com> On 1/7/08, Ted Pollari wrote: > Anyone know of any good technical or geek-skewed bookstores in > Chicago? PyCons past have had a local tech oriented bookseller as an > on-site vendor and we'd love to find a Chicago version of the same. Actually, this will be our first time. I believe O'Reilly sold books at the 2003 or 2004 PyCon, but it wasn't really a "bookstore". At OSCON in Portland a local tech bookstore (Powell's) had a large presence, and it was a good service for attendees. -- David Goodger From tcp at mac.com Mon Jan 7 23:04:01 2008 From: tcp at mac.com (Ted Pollari) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 16:04:01 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Good Tech Bookstores in Chicagoland? In-Reply-To: <4335d2c40801071356j691db13eka1b78160e0f773c6@mail.gmail.com> References: <4335d2c40801071356j691db13eka1b78160e0f773c6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Jan 7, 2008, at 3:56 PM, David Goodger wrote: > Actually, this will be our first time. I believe O'Reilly sold books > at the 2003 or 2004 PyCon, but it wasn't really a "bookstore". Fair enough -- I remembered them selling books, so it registered in my mind... > At > OSCON in Portland a local tech bookstore (Powell's) had a large > presence, and it was a good service for attendees. If I'm not mistaken, Powell's is a nation chain (though a bit more respectable in book circles, from the little I've heard, than say, B&N) -- if that's the case, we could likely approach one of the local Powell's and see if they'd be interested. -ted From skip at pobox.com Tue Jan 8 00:19:04 2008 From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 17:19:04 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Good Tech Bookstores in Chicagoland? In-Reply-To: References: <4335d2c40801071356j691db13eka1b78160e0f773c6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <18306.45928.841895.448181@montanaro.dyndns.org> >> At OSCON in Portland a local tech bookstore (Powell's) had a large >> presence, and it was a good service for attendees. Ted> If I'm not mistaken, Powell's is a nation chain (though a bit more Ted> respectable in book circles, from the little I've heard, than say, Ted> B&N) -- if that's the case, we could likely approach one of the Ted> local Powell's and see if they'd be interested. Yes, I always thought of Powell's as a Northwest phenomenon but stumbled upon one in Chicago a few months ago. Certainly seems like it would be worth a query. What about any of the bookstores near the various college/university campuses? There must be one that's kinda geeky. Skip From asl2 at pobox.com Tue Jan 8 00:49:03 2008 From: asl2 at pobox.com (Aaron Lav) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 18:49:03 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Good Tech Bookstores in Chicagoland? In-Reply-To: References: <4335d2c40801071356j691db13eka1b78160e0f773c6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080107234903.GB2868@panix.com> On Mon, Jan 07, 2008 at 04:04:01PM -0600, Ted Pollari wrote: > > > If I'm not mistaken, Powell's is a nation chain (though a bit more > respectable in book circles, from the little I've heard, than say, > B&N) -- if that's the case, we could likely approach one of the local > Powell's and see if they'd be interested. The Powell's in Portland and Chicago are independent (although run by relatives), and there are no others: see http://www.powells.com/info/briefhistory.html If I remember correctly, nerdbooks.com ran a bus to their store for the Dallas PyCon one year: that worked better for me, since I could browse everything they had instead of just what they thought would sell at the conference. Aaron (asl2 at pobox.com / http://www.pobox.com/~asl2) From mtobis at gmail.com Tue Jan 8 00:49:57 2008 From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 17:49:57 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Good Tech Bookstores in Chicagoland? In-Reply-To: <18306.45928.841895.448181@montanaro.dyndns.org> References: <4335d2c40801071356j691db13eka1b78160e0f773c6@mail.gmail.com> <18306.45928.841895.448181@montanaro.dyndns.org> Message-ID: There's nothing in Chicago like Dallas's Nerdbooks, as far as I know. I think there used to be one around Naperville called Bits N Bytes, but I never managed to get there. That may be ancient history. I love sci/tech sections in bookstores and know many of the ones in Chicago. Tech quality seems to come and go. Four years ago I thought the U of C bookstore was one of the best in the world. It is now remarkably mundane. The best selection I know of (or as of about a year ago) is or was the downtown DePaul campus's Barnes & Noble, followed by the Borders at Oak Brook. I think the question is about independents with a strong geek flavor (who might want to participate in PyCon). Even Austin does better than Chicago on this score as far as I know with Intellectual Property. Powell's in Chicago is a wonderful used bookstore but not a place to get current gems from O'Reilly, MIT Press and the like. I don't think they are closely related to any Powell's elsewhere. mt On Jan 7, 2008 5:19 PM, wrote: > > >> At OSCON in Portland a local tech bookstore (Powell's) had a large > >> presence, and it was a good service for attendees. > > Ted> If I'm not mistaken, Powell's is a nation chain (though a bit more > Ted> respectable in book circles, from the little I've heard, than say, > Ted> B&N) -- if that's the case, we could likely approach one of the > Ted> local Powell's and see if they'd be interested. > > Yes, I always thought of Powell's as a Northwest phenomenon but stumbled > upon one in Chicago a few months ago. Certainly seems like it would be > worth a query. > > What about any of the bookstores near the various college/university > campuses? There must be one that's kinda geeky. > > Skip > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > From mtobis at gmail.com Tue Jan 8 01:04:47 2008 From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 18:04:47 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Video capture? In-Reply-To: <2C6AD6D5-E578-46FD-9049-D7949FB12AEA@sent.com> References: <2C6AD6D5-E578-46FD-9049-D7949FB12AEA@sent.com> Message-ID: +1 from the outer outer outer suburban contingent (Texas) as well as the outer outer outer outer suburban contingent (France). Please and thanks! Yay Brian! mt On Jan 4, 2008 8:42 PM, Brian Ray wrote: > Hi mt. Hope all is well in Texas. > > I will video/audio record the meeting during presentations. If a > presenter specifically does not want recorded, they need to let me > know ahead of time and I will turn the recorder off. I will make the > recording available online. From carl at personnelware.com Tue Jan 8 05:00:17 2008 From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 22:00:17 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Python Tutorial 4.6 function fib() In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0801070741u4fdcf139i4fc1978a4d609605@mail.gmail.com> References: <3096c19d0801070741u4fdcf139i4fc1978a4d609605@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4782F551.1050901@personnelware.com> Chris McAvoy wrote: > On Jan 6, 2008 3:29 PM, Scott Zibble wrote: >> I think part of the reason this may be complex for some people is because it >> doesn't come back to the concept if idealized bees. > > I always thought it was about rabbits. Weird. Bees huh? > Did you see the bee movie? they kept getting their bee facts wrong. pissed me off. Carl K From pohara at virtualmotors.com Tue Jan 8 15:16:00 2008 From: pohara at virtualmotors.com (Patrick O'Hara) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 08:16:00 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Python Tutorial 4.6 function fib() References: <3096c19d0801070741u4fdcf139i4fc1978a4d609605@mail.gmail.com> <4782F551.1050901@personnelware.com> Message-ID: <001701c85200$ff3dd8a0$7402a8c0@IBMUO5W0HB49M3> oooooooookkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Karsten" To: "The Chicago Python Users Group" Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 10:00 PM Subject: Re: [Chicago] Python Tutorial 4.6 function fib() > Chris McAvoy wrote: >> On Jan 6, 2008 3:29 PM, Scott Zibble wrote: >>> I think part of the reason this may be complex for some people is >>> because it >>> doesn't come back to the concept if idealized bees. >> >> I always thought it was about rabbits. Weird. Bees huh? >> > > Did you see the bee movie? > > they kept getting their bee facts wrong. pissed me off. > > Carl K > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > From maney at two14.net Tue Jan 8 20:18:36 2008 From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 13:18:36 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Good Tech Bookstores in Chicagoland? In-Reply-To: References: <4335d2c40801071356j691db13eka1b78160e0f773c6@mail.gmail.com> <18306.45928.841895.448181@montanaro.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20080108191836.GB32453@furrr.two14.net> On Mon, Jan 07, 2008 at 05:49:57PM -0600, Michael Tobis wrote: > There's nothing in Chicago like Dallas's Nerdbooks, as far as I know. > I think there used to be one around Naperville called Bits N Bytes, > but I never managed to get there. That may be ancient history. Yeah, it's long gone, and much missed. There may still be an online ghostly remnant, but it was, of course, browsing the actual books inthe actual store that made it so wonderful. At this time the best, or at any rate certainly the largest technical book selection I know of in the area is at Microcenter, of all places. Aisles and aisles of books there... non-computer science, too. > I love sci/tech sections in bookstores and know many of the ones in > Chicago. Tech quality seems to come and go. Four years ago I thought > the U of C bookstore was one of the best in the world. It is now > remarkably mundane. The best selection I know of (or as of about a > year ago) is or was the downtown DePaul campus's Barnes & Noble, > followed by the Borders at Oak Brook. Yuck. I was lucky enough to be introduced to Borders back when you had to drive to Michigan to visit one. This was before they started appearing everywhere, and the hiring process was mainly concerned with finding people who liked books and knew a lot about at least some types of them. My benchmark is being asked "can I help you?", explaining that I was looking for a copy of the Smalltalk-80 book, and having the guy (1) know which one I meant, (2) that they had had a copy, and (3) after checking the shelves offering to order the copy they should have had but didn't; would you like us to call you when it gets here? I haven't been to the Oak Brook Borders in some years becuase it was getting too too sad watching what had been quite a good computer section slowly dwindle (I remember being a little bemused to find not one but several copies of Lion's Commentary there back when it had been blessed for publication. Probably that store's all time high point IMO) Nowadays I mostly shop at Bookpool, which leaves a bit to be wished for in the browsing, but what else can you do when the local stores don't carry squat anymore, and most of that being along the lines of Office for Congenital Morons? -- There is overwhelming evidence that the higher the level of self-esteem, the more likely one will be to treat others with respect, kindness, and generosity. -- Nathaniel Branden From jsudlow at gmail.com Tue Jan 8 21:09:52 2008 From: jsudlow at gmail.com (Jon Sudlow) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 14:09:52 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Good Tech Bookstores in Chicagoland? In-Reply-To: <20080108191836.GB32453@furrr.two14.net> References: <4335d2c40801071356j691db13eka1b78160e0f773c6@mail.gmail.com> <18306.45928.841895.448181@montanaro.dyndns.org> <20080108191836.GB32453@furrr.two14.net> Message-ID: "Office for congenital morons" Haha, I agree with you. It gets pretty tiresome knowing books like "Starting a computer for dummies" are the only books that sell in a decent volume to keep them around on the shelves. Hmmm, online bookstores for the chicago tech community,I smell a django project cooking.... BTW: Dont you older guys have a massve pool of books? aybe put them together and have a Chipy bookstore? Or we could just screw that and sell the .pdf's to people with laptops? -Jon On Jan 8, 2008 1:18 PM, Martin Maney wrote: > On Mon, Jan 07, 2008 at 05:49:57PM -0600, Michael Tobis wrote: > > There's nothing in Chicago like Dallas's Nerdbooks, as far as I know. > > I think there used to be one around Naperville called Bits N Bytes, > > but I never managed to get there. That may be ancient history. > > Yeah, it's long gone, and much missed. There may still be an online > ghostly remnant, but it was, of course, browsing the actual books inthe > actual store that made it so wonderful. > > At this time the best, or at any rate certainly the largest technical > book selection I know of in the area is at Microcenter, of all places. > Aisles and aisles of books there... non-computer science, too. > > > I love sci/tech sections in bookstores and know many of the ones in > > Chicago. Tech quality seems to come and go. Four years ago I thought > > the U of C bookstore was one of the best in the world. It is now > > remarkably mundane. The best selection I know of (or as of about a > > year ago) is or was the downtown DePaul campus's Barnes & Noble, > > followed by the Borders at Oak Brook. > > Yuck. I was lucky enough to be introduced to Borders back when you had > to drive to Michigan to visit one. This was before they started > appearing everywhere, and the hiring process was mainly concerned with > finding people who liked books and knew a lot about at least some types > of them. My benchmark is being asked "can I help you?", explaining > that I was looking for a copy of the Smalltalk-80 book, and having the > guy (1) know which one I meant, (2) that they had had a copy, and (3) > after checking the shelves offering to order the copy they should have > had but didn't; would you like us to call you when it gets here? I > haven't been to the Oak Brook Borders in some years becuase it was > getting too too sad watching what had been quite a good computer > section slowly dwindle (I remember being a little bemused to find not > one but several copies of Lion's Commentary there back when it had been > blessed for publication. Probably that store's all time high point > IMO) > > Nowadays I mostly shop at Bookpool, which leaves a bit to be wished for > in the browsing, but what else can you do when the local stores don't > carry squat anymore, and most of that being along the lines of Office > for Congenital Morons? > > -- > There is overwhelming evidence that the higher the level of self-esteem, > the more likely one will be to treat others with respect, kindness, and > generosity. -- Nathaniel Branden > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > -- Jon Sudlow 3225 Foster Avenue 221 Sohlberg Hall C.P.O 2224 Chicago, Il 60625 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080108/ad4e8f34/attachment.htm From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com Tue Jan 8 21:15:01 2008 From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 12:15:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Chicago] Good Tech Bookstores in Chicagoland? In-Reply-To: <20080108191836.GB32453@furrr.two14.net> Message-ID: <625845.46628.qm@web34808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I would echo Martin's opinion: the best tech bookstore I've been to in Chicagoland is the one inside Microcenter (would've spoken earlier but I forgot the name of the place). But that's not really saying much. I've never been inside Powell's, so I can't compare with them. --- Martin Maney wrote: > On Mon, Jan 07, 2008 at 05:49:57PM -0600, Michael Tobis wrote: > > There's nothing in Chicago like Dallas's Nerdbooks, as far as I > know. > > I think there used to be one around Naperville called Bits N > Bytes, > > but I never managed to get there. That may be ancient history. > > Yeah, it's long gone, and much missed. There may still be an > online > ghostly remnant, but it was, of course, browsing the actual books > inthe > actual store that made it so wonderful. > > At this time the best, or at any rate certainly the largest > technical > book selection I know of in the area is at Microcenter, of all > places. > Aisles and aisles of books there... non-computer science, too. > > > I love sci/tech sections in bookstores and know many of the ones > in > > Chicago. Tech quality seems to come and go. Four years ago I > thought > > the U of C bookstore was one of the best in the world. It is now > > remarkably mundane. The best selection I know of (or as of about > a > > year ago) is or was the downtown DePaul campus's Barnes & Noble, > > followed by the Borders at Oak Brook. > > Yuck. I was lucky enough to be introduced to Borders back when you > had > to drive to Michigan to visit one. This was before they started > appearing everywhere, and the hiring process was mainly concerned > with > finding people who liked books and knew a lot about at least some > types > of them. My benchmark is being asked "can I help you?", explaining > that I was looking for a copy of the Smalltalk-80 book, and having > the > guy (1) know which one I meant, (2) that they had had a copy, and > (3) > after checking the shelves offering to order the copy they should > have > had but didn't; would you like us to call you when it gets here? I > haven't been to the Oak Brook Borders in some years becuase it was > getting too too sad watching what had been quite a good computer > section slowly dwindle (I remember being a little bemused to find > not > one but several copies of Lion's Commentary there back when it had > been > blessed for publication. Probably that store's all time high point > IMO) > > Nowadays I mostly shop at Bookpool, which leaves a bit to be wished > for > in the browsing, but what else can you do when the local stores > don't > carry squat anymore, and most of that being along the lines of > Office > for Congenital Morons? > > -- > There is overwhelming evidence that the higher the level of > self-esteem, > the more likely one will be to treat others with respect, kindness, > and > generosity. -- Nathaniel Branden > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping From verisimilidude at gmail.com Tue Jan 8 21:32:44 2008 From: verisimilidude at gmail.com (Phil Robare) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 14:32:44 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Good Tech Bookstores in Chicagoland? In-Reply-To: <625845.46628.qm@web34808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20080108191836.GB32453@furrr.two14.net> <625845.46628.qm@web34808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6ad48f980801081232i51f97999p63889628921b070d@mail.gmail.com> Although it is still good, and given the poor competition one of the best, the book department at MicroCenter on Elston has been reconfigured and diminished. About 6 months ago half the bookstore was taken over and made into the game console section. At the same time the range of books was cut way back. I always had problems with them in that there seemed to be few staff that cared about the books - they were often hard to find and no one seemed to weed out the out of date stuff. A book on Java 1.4 might be found on one aisle and on the next aisle a book on the latest and greatest of some new Java library. Now they seem to stock more of the 'latest version of X' type books and a lot less of the theoretical and engineering books that they used to stock. There is another one out in the Oak Brook / Downers Grove area (Westmont actually) but I haven't been out there in over 2 years. From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com Tue Jan 8 22:01:25 2008 From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 13:01:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Chicago] Good Tech Bookstores in Chicagoland? In-Reply-To: <6ad48f980801081232i51f97999p63889628921b070d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <321995.13644.qm@web34810.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Crap. I guess it changed a lot since I've last been there. --- Phil Robare wrote: > Although it is still good, and given the poor competition one of > the > best, the book department at MicroCenter on Elston has been > reconfigured and diminished. About 6 months ago half the bookstore > was taken over and made into the game console section. At the same > time the range of books was cut way back. I always had problems > with > them in that there seemed to be few staff that cared about the > books - > they were often hard to find and no one seemed to weed out the out > of > date stuff. A book on Java 1.4 might be found on one aisle and on > the > next aisle a book on the latest and greatest of some new Java > library. > Now they seem to stock more of the 'latest version of X' type > books > and a lot less of the theoretical and engineering books that they > used > to stock. There is another one out in the Oak Brook / Downers > Grove > area (Westmont actually) but I haven't been out there in over 2 > years. > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From shekay at pobox.com Tue Jan 8 22:15:43 2008 From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 15:15:43 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Good Tech Bookstores in Chicagoland? In-Reply-To: References: <4335d2c40801071356j691db13eka1b78160e0f773c6@mail.gmail.com> <18306.45928.841895.448181@montanaro.dyndns.org> <20080108191836.GB32453@furrr.two14.net> Message-ID: On Jan 8, 2008 2:09 PM, Jon Sudlow wrote: > BTW: Dont you older guys have a massve pool of books? aybe put them together > and have a Chipy bookstore? okay http://www.librarything.com/groups/chipy -- sheila From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com Tue Jan 8 22:19:32 2008 From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 15:19:32 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Good Tech Bookstores in Chicagoland? In-Reply-To: <321995.13644.qm@web34810.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <6ad48f980801081232i51f97999p63889628921b070d@mail.gmail.com> <321995.13644.qm@web34810.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3096c19d0801081319g5cd774eg907de6e88b7cd8f1@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 8, 2008 3:01 PM, Feihong Hsu wrote: > Crap. I guess it [Microcenter] changed a lot since I've last been there. Yeah, it's a real bummer. I used to love their discounted books. On a similar note, I got a copy of "Essentials of Programming Languages" off of the $1 rack at my local library. It was the most exciting discounted computer book find of Q1 2008. Chris From cwebber at imagescape.com Tue Jan 8 22:50:42 2008 From: cwebber at imagescape.com (Christopher Allan Webber) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 15:50:42 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Good Tech Bookstores in Chicagoland? In-Reply-To: (Jon Sudlow's message of "Tue, 8 Jan 2008 14:09:52 -0600") References: <4335d2c40801071356j691db13eka1b78160e0f773c6@mail.gmail.com> <18306.45928.841895.448181@montanaro.dyndns.org> <20080108191836.GB32453@furrr.two14.net> Message-ID: <6ylk70c7gt.fsf@imagepc03.rd.imagescape.com> You mean you didn't enjoy "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Python For Dummies"? Man. And remember: nothing is sacred. Not even O'Reilly. http://www.amazon.com/AOL-Nutshell-Desktop-America-Online/dp/156592424X I love this customer review for this book: AOL IN A NUTSHELL STIL ROCKS!!, February 28, 2003 By DONNA J. JANELLE (TIVERTON, RI USA) - See all my reviews ALTHOUGH THIS BOOK STATES IT IS FOR AOL 4.0, IT IS STILL VERY USEFUL FOR BASIC AOL KNOWLEDGE. I HAVE USED THIS BOOK AS MY "BIBLE" AND FIND IT STILL HELPING ME ALL THE TIME. CERTAINLY WORTH THE COST. THE BEST AOL BOOK I HAVE PURCHASED. "Jon Sudlow" writes: > "Office for congenital morons" > > Haha, I agree with you. It gets pretty tiresome knowing books like > "Starting a computer for dummies" are the only books that sell in a decent > volume to keep them around on the shelves. Hmmm, online bookstores for the > chicago tech community,I smell a django project cooking.... > > BTW: Dont you older guys have a massve pool of books? aybe put them > together and have a Chipy bookstore? > > Or we could just screw that and sell the .pdf's to people with laptops? > > -Jon > > On Jan 8, 2008 1:18 PM, Martin Maney <[1]maney at two14.net> wrote: > > On Mon, Jan 07, 2008 at 05:49:57PM -0600, Michael Tobis wrote: > > There's nothing in Chicago like Dallas's Nerdbooks, as far as I know. > > I think there used to be one around Naperville called Bits N Bytes, > > but I never managed to get there. That may be ancient history. > > Yeah, it's long gone, and much missed. There may still be an online > ghostly remnant, but it was, of course, browsing the actual books inthe > actual store that made it so wonderful. > > At this time the best, or at any rate certainly the largest technical > book selection I know of in the area is at Microcenter, of all places. > Aisles and aisles of books there... non-computer science, too. > > I love sci/tech sections in bookstores and know many of the ones in > > Chicago. Tech quality seems to come and go. Four years ago I thought > > the U of C bookstore was one of the best in the world. It is now > > remarkably mundane. The best selection I know of (or as of about a > > year ago) is or was the downtown DePaul campus's Barnes & Noble, > > followed by the Borders at Oak Brook. > > Yuck. I was lucky enough to be introduced to Borders back when you had > to drive to Michigan to visit one. This was before they started > appearing everywhere, and the hiring process was mainly concerned with > finding people who liked books and knew a lot about at least some types > of them. My benchmark is being asked "can I help you?", explaining > that I was looking for a copy of the Smalltalk-80 book, and having the > guy (1) know which one I meant, (2) that they had had a copy, and (3) > after checking the shelves offering to order the copy they should have > had but didn't; would you like us to call you when it gets here? I > haven't been to the Oak Brook Borders in some years becuase it was > getting too too sad watching what had been quite a good computer > section slowly dwindle (I remember being a little bemused to find not > one but several copies of Lion's Commentary there back when it had been > blessed for publication. Probably that store's all time high point > IMO) > > Nowadays I mostly shop at Bookpool, which leaves a bit to be wished for > in the browsing, but what else can you do when the local stores don't > carry squat anymore, and most of that being along the lines of Office > for Congenital Morons? > -- > There is overwhelming evidence that the higher the level of self-esteem, > the more likely one will be to treat others with respect, kindness, and > generosity. -- Nathaniel Branden > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > [2]Chicago at python.org > [3]http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > -- > Jon Sudlow > 3225 Foster Avenue > 221 Sohlberg Hall > C.P.O 2224 > Chicago, Il 60625 > > References > > Visible links > 1. mailto:maney at two14.net > 2. mailto:Chicago at python.org > 3. http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com Tue Jan 8 23:25:45 2008 From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 14:25:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Chicago] Good Tech Bookstores in Chicagoland? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <904887.23452.qm@web34806.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Jon Sudlow wrote: > BTW: Dont you older guys have a massve pool of books? aybe put them > together > and have a Chipy bookstore? Not sure if I qualify as an "older guy", but I don't have a massive pool of books, because I throw them out when they get obsolete. And technical books get obsolete pretty fast, especially if they're focused on a specific tool for a specific language. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com Tue Jan 8 23:46:41 2008 From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 16:46:41 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Good Tech Bookstores in Chicagoland? In-Reply-To: <904887.23452.qm@web34806.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <904887.23452.qm@web34806.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Jan 8, 2008 4:25 PM, Feihong Hsu wrote: > --- Jon Sudlow wrote: > > BTW: Dont you older guys have a massve pool of books? aybe put them > > together > > and have a Chipy bookstore? > > Not sure if I qualify as an "older guy", but I don't have a massive > pool of books, because I throw them out when they get obsolete. I need to learn how to do that. But ... my Palm OS and ASP Developer Guide are perfect for pressing tofu, so that it soaks up more goodness in a stir fry. Seriously. I've moved them to the kitchen. > And > technical books get obsolete pretty fast, especially if they're > focused on a specific tool for a specific language. > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Looking for last minute shopping deals? > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > From pfein at pobox.com Wed Jan 9 00:38:57 2008 From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 18:38:57 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Good Tech Bookstores in Chicagoland? In-Reply-To: References: <904887.23452.qm@web34806.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200801081838.57172.pfein@pobox.com> On Tuesday January 8 2008 5:46:41 pm Kumar McMillan wrote: > I need to learn how to do that. But ... my Palm OS and ASP Developer > Guide are perfect for pressing tofu, so that it soaks up more goodness > in a stir fry. Seriously. I've moved them to the kitchen. Oh, I thought that's what the Yellow Pages was for. -- Peter Fein || 773-575-0694 || pfein at pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~pfein/ || PGP: 0xCCF6AE6B irc: pfein at freenode.net || jabber: peter.fein at gmail.com From maney at two14.net Wed Jan 9 01:03:15 2008 From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 18:03:15 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Good Tech Bookstores in Chicagoland? In-Reply-To: <904887.23452.qm@web34806.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <904887.23452.qm@web34806.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20080109000315.GA26667@furrr.two14.net> On Tue, Jan 08, 2008 at 02:25:45PM -0800, Feihong Hsu wrote: > Not sure if I qualify as an "older guy", but I don't have a massive > pool of books, because I throw them out when they get obsolete. And > technical books get obsolete pretty fast, especially if they're > focused on a specific tool for a specific language. Well, now, there you go - if you buy throwaway books, you'll find they're not worth keeping for long. :-) -- Trouble rather the tiger in his lair than the sage among his books. For to you kingdoms and their armies are things mighty and enduring, but to him they are but toys of the moment, to be overturned with the flick of a finger. -- Gordon Dickson From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com Wed Jan 9 02:08:08 2008 From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 17:08:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Chicago] Good Tech Bookstores in Chicagoland? In-Reply-To: <20080109000315.GA26667@furrr.two14.net> Message-ID: <637689.56307.qm@web34801.mail.mud.yahoo.com> So true. But who can resist those seductive back-cover blurbs and shiny logos? "Take control of your development! Lightning fast deployment! Crush your competition into dust!" (I'm still waiting for the ZjangoGears book. It should've been out by now. Why isn't it out?) --- Martin Maney wrote: > On Tue, Jan 08, 2008 at 02:25:45PM -0800, Feihong Hsu wrote: > > Not sure if I qualify as an "older guy", but I don't have a > massive > > pool of books, because I throw them out when they get obsolete. > And > > technical books get obsolete pretty fast, especially if they're > > focused on a specific tool for a specific language. > > Well, now, there you go - if you buy throwaway books, you'll find > they're not worth keeping for long. :-) > > -- > Trouble rather the tiger in his lair than the sage among his books. > For to you kingdoms and their armies are things mighty and > enduring, > but to him they are but toys of the moment, > to be overturned with the flick of a finger. -- Gordon Dickson > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping From tcp at mac.com Wed Jan 9 05:30:56 2008 From: tcp at mac.com (Ted Pollari) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 22:30:56 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Good Tech Bookstores in Chicagoland? In-Reply-To: <637689.56307.qm@web34801.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <637689.56307.qm@web34801.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <65AD2DED-6C28-4533-AD1D-C1242B7274E3@mac.com> On Jan 8, 2008, at 7:08 PM, Feihong Hsu wrote: > (I'm still waiting for the ZjangoGears book. It should've been out by > now. Why isn't it out?) Two words: writers' strike. From robert.a.zeh at gmail.com Thu Jan 10 02:36:30 2008 From: robert.a.zeh at gmail.com (Robert Zeh) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 19:36:30 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Additional details for January 10th, 2008 meeting Message-ID: <8A9BC7EA-0FA2-4EA0-954F-15723EEDA90A@gmail.com> As I've already mentioned, the meeting will be at: Club Quarters, Central Loop 111 West Adams Street (Next to the Rookery and near LaSalle) Chicago, IL 60603 As I have not mentioned, Club Quarters is right next door to the Elephant and Castle restaurant. After going in through the door, there is a bank of elevators to the right. Take an elevator to the third floor, and then go to the "Adams" room. The Adams room is right outside the elevator bank on the third floor. Signs will be posted. Robert From ianb at colorstudy.com Thu Jan 10 07:44:15 2008 From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 00:44:15 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] PyCon (housing) In-Reply-To: <6e9196d20801091314s2c9890e5p2fc308f14e4ab2eb@mail.gmail.com> References: <6e9196d20801091314s2c9890e5p2fc308f14e4ab2eb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4785BEBF.7040708@colorstudy.com> Mike Orr wrote: > I'm gonna try to be in Chicago March 12-24 for PyCon, the sprints, and > a few days of vacation. But the budget situation at work is tight so > I may have to look for alternate travel funds. I have a friend in > west Chicago I'm hoping to stay with, though it hasn't been confirmed > yet. > > I'm thinking that a lot of people will want to stay a few extra days > in Chicago, and if any locals are willing to put us up during or > around the conference, it would be a chance to cut expenses and also > increase cameraderie/collaboration. It's what we do at other events > (e.g., the wrestling weekends I attend). Have the Chicago Pythoneers > thought about doing this as a group? I realize we need to fill our > quota of hotel reservations but I assume that won't be any problem. That's a good idea. I don't think any list like that has been compiled. Maybe it would be best to compile this privately, like email one person who compiles the list? Then maybe we can give that to the organizers, and they could connect people. One difficulty, though, can be transportation (and coordinating transportation). For instance there's no very direct way from my place to the venue (well, I guess a bus and a train isn't so bad, but it takes a while). Ian From christianzlong at yahoo.com Thu Jan 10 17:05:06 2008 From: christianzlong at yahoo.com (Christian Long) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 10:05:06 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] PyCon (housing) Message-ID: <47864232.6080008@yahoo.com> Mike Orr wrote: > I'm thinking that a lot of people will want to stay a few extra days > in Chicago, and if any locals are willing to put us up during or > around the conference, it would be a chance to cut expenses and also > increase cameraderie/collaboration. It's what we do at other events > (e.g., the wrestling weekends I attend). Have the Chicago Pythoneers > thought about doing this as a group? I realize we need to fill our > quota of hotel reservations but I assume that won't be any problem. A hearty +1 to this suggestion. I'd be happy to staff tables & run cables in exchange. My employer will pay for a few days at the hotel, but not the full monty. Speaking of camaraderie, are there any gaming sessions scheduled? There must be a few Board Game Geeks tm among you. Or is there simply not time for such frivolity with so much Python to digest? Christian From carl at personnelware.com Thu Jan 10 17:33:44 2008 From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 10:33:44 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] PyCon (housing) In-Reply-To: <4785BEBF.7040708@colorstudy.com> References: <6e9196d20801091314s2c9890e5p2fc308f14e4ab2eb@mail.gmail.com> <4785BEBF.7040708@colorstudy.com> Message-ID: <478648E8.2070202@personnelware.com> Ian Bicking wrote: > Mike Orr wrote: >> I'm gonna try to be in Chicago March 12-24 for PyCon, the sprints, and >> a few days of vacation. But the budget situation at work is tight so >> I may have to look for alternate travel funds. I have a friend in >> west Chicago I'm hoping to stay with, though it hasn't been confirmed >> yet. >> >> I'm thinking that a lot of people will want to stay a few extra days >> in Chicago, and if any locals are willing to put us up during or >> around the conference, it would be a chance to cut expenses and also >> increase cameraderie/collaboration. It's what we do at other events >> (e.g., the wrestling weekends I attend). Have the Chicago Pythoneers >> thought about doing this as a group? I realize we need to fill our >> quota of hotel reservations but I assume that won't be any problem. > > That's a good idea. I don't think any list like that has been compiled. > Maybe it would be best to compile this privately, like email one > person who compiles the list? Then maybe we can give that to the > organizers, and they could connect people. > > One difficulty, though, can be transportation (and coordinating > transportation). For instance there's no very direct way from my place > to the venue (well, I guess a bus and a train isn't so bad, but it takes > a while). how long is a while? Is it enough that someone wouldn't bother sprinting? If it makes or breaks someone sprinting, I would be up for helping with transportation. but only during the sprints. I'm probably not going to leave the hotel during the main event. Carl K From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com Thu Jan 10 18:01:58 2008 From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 09:01:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Chicago] PyCon (housing) In-Reply-To: <4785BEBF.7040708@colorstudy.com> Message-ID: <957615.88780.qm@web34804.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I think this is a great idea even for people who live in Chicagoland but have have a long commute to the city (like me). I plan on staying at the hotel during the tutorial and conference days, but it's harder to justify the expenses of staying at the hotel an extra three days just for sprinting. If I had the option of staying at someone's house or apartment for a few days, that would make things a lot easier. --- Ian Bicking wrote: > Mike Orr wrote: > > I'm gonna try to be in Chicago March 12-24 for PyCon, the > sprints, and > > a few days of vacation. But the budget situation at work is > tight so > > I may have to look for alternate travel funds. I have a friend > in > > west Chicago I'm hoping to stay with, though it hasn't been > confirmed > > yet. > > > > I'm thinking that a lot of people will want to stay a few extra > days > > in Chicago, and if any locals are willing to put us up during or > > around the conference, it would be a chance to cut expenses and > also > > increase cameraderie/collaboration. It's what we do at other > events > > (e.g., the wrestling weekends I attend). Have the Chicago > Pythoneers > > thought about doing this as a group? I realize we need to fill > our > > quota of hotel reservations but I assume that won't be any > problem. > > That's a good idea. I don't think any list like that has been > compiled. > Maybe it would be best to compile this privately, like email one > person who compiles the list? Then maybe we can give that to the > organizers, and they could connect people. > > One difficulty, though, can be transportation (and coordinating > transportation). For instance there's no very direct way from my > place > to the venue (well, I guess a bus and a train isn't so bad, but it > takes > a while). > > Ian > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From ianb at colorstudy.com Thu Jan 10 18:34:33 2008 From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 11:34:33 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] PyCon (housing) In-Reply-To: <478648E8.2070202@personnelware.com> References: <6e9196d20801091314s2c9890e5p2fc308f14e4ab2eb@mail.gmail.com> <4785BEBF.7040708@colorstudy.com> <478648E8.2070202@personnelware.com> Message-ID: <47865729.3050403@colorstudy.com> Carl Karsten wrote: >> One difficulty, though, can be transportation (and coordinating >> transportation). For instance there's no very direct way from my place >> to the venue (well, I guess a bus and a train isn't so bad, but it takes >> a while). > > how long is a while? Is it enough that someone wouldn't bother sprinting? If > it makes or breaks someone sprinting, I would be up for helping with > transportation. but only during the sprints. I'm probably not going to leave > the hotel during the main event. It's not that long of a trip, I guess; but if I have guests I just don't want to have to coordinate leaving at the same time as them each evening (probably mornings would be easy). -- Ian Bicking : ianb at colorstudy.com : http://blog.ianbicking.org From bradyc at google.com Thu Jan 10 18:36:48 2008 From: bradyc at google.com (Brady Cox) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 11:36:48 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Additional details for January 10th, 2008 meeting In-Reply-To: <8A9BC7EA-0FA2-4EA0-954F-15723EEDA90A@gmail.com> References: <8A9BC7EA-0FA2-4EA0-954F-15723EEDA90A@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2dfd89af0801100936r5b55a5f4jc09c060f0ec224d3@mail.gmail.com> Not going to be able to make it. Sorry. :-( On Jan 9, 2008 7:36 PM, Robert Zeh wrote: > As I've already mentioned, the meeting will be at: > > Club Quarters, Central Loop > 111 West Adams Street > (Next to the Rookery and near LaSalle) > Chicago, IL 60603 > > As I have not mentioned, Club Quarters is right next door to the > Elephant and Castle restaurant. After going in through the door, > there is a bank of elevators to the right. Take an elevator to the > third floor, and then go to the "Adams" room. The Adams room is right > outside the elevator bank on the third floor. > > Signs will be posted. > > Robert > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > -- Brady Cox Google Chicago Datacenter Artisan/Professional Owning Critic Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the contents of this message by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited without written consent from Major League Baseball. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080110/3945d68a/attachment.htm From varmaa at gmail.com Thu Jan 10 17:40:24 2008 From: varmaa at gmail.com (Atul Varma) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 10:40:24 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] PyCon (housing) In-Reply-To: <4785BEBF.7040708@colorstudy.com> References: <6e9196d20801091314s2c9890e5p2fc308f14e4ab2eb@mail.gmail.com> <4785BEBF.7040708@colorstudy.com> Message-ID: <361b27370801100840v44a26bf5mbf3accffc2cef62f@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 10, 2008 12:44 AM, Ian Bicking wrote: > Mike Orr wrote: > > I'm thinking that a lot of people will want to stay a few extra days > > in Chicago, and if any locals are willing to put us up during or > > around the conference, it would be a chance to cut expenses and also > > increase cameraderie/collaboration. It's what we do at other events > > (e.g., the wrestling weekends I attend). Have the Chicago Pythoneers > > thought about doing this as a group? I realize we need to fill our > > quota of hotel reservations but I assume that won't be any problem. > The Chicago Python User Group (ChiPy) has a meeting tonight, so we'll definitely bring up this idea. - Atul -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080110/9e71eb01/attachment.htm From goodger at python.org Thu Jan 10 19:28:27 2008 From: goodger at python.org (David Goodger) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 13:28:27 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Good Tech Bookstores in Chicagoland? In-Reply-To: <4335d2c40801071356j691db13eka1b78160e0f773c6@mail.gmail.com> References: <4335d2c40801071356j691db13eka1b78160e0f773c6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4335d2c40801101028w2cc56379x21d61876b908f41d@mail.gmail.com> [Christopher Allan Webber] > You mean you didn't enjoy "The Complete Idiot's Guide > to Python For Dummies"? Man. :-) Actually, the "Python For Dummies" book is quite good, as a beginner-level text. Aahz co-wrote it, and I tech-edited it. Unlike many books out there, it gets the concept of Python names (vs. other languages' variable) right. I made sure of it ;-) -- David Goodger From goodger at python.org Thu Jan 10 19:33:18 2008 From: goodger at python.org (David Goodger) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 13:33:18 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Good Tech Bookstores in Chicagoland? In-Reply-To: <4335d2c40801071356j691db13eka1b78160e0f773c6@mail.gmail.com> References: <4335d2c40801071356j691db13eka1b78160e0f773c6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4335d2c40801101033u59487693qed34a2fea67fe0c0@mail.gmail.com> I read over the discussion here, thanks for your input everyone! It looks like there's no clearcut winning candidate out there, and since O'Reilly has offered to run a bookstore booth at PyCon, we'll go with them. That's the path of least resistance, and O'Reilly has some of the best books anyhow. They'll be bringing titles from: * No Starch Press * O'Reilly * Paraglyph Press * PC Publishing * Pragmatic Bookshelf * Rocky Nook * SitePoint * YoungJin -- David Goodger From sgithens at caret.cam.ac.uk Thu Jan 10 19:45:43 2008 From: sgithens at caret.cam.ac.uk (swg) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 12:45:43 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Additional details for January 10th, 2008 meeting In-Reply-To: <8A9BC7EA-0FA2-4EA0-954F-15723EEDA90A@gmail.com> References: <8A9BC7EA-0FA2-4EA0-954F-15723EEDA90A@gmail.com> Message-ID: <478667D7.2050307@caret.cam.ac.uk> Does someone have a 13" Macbook VGAish dongle I might be able to use with the projector tonight? I know I have one somewhere, but since I can't locate it right now, there's a good chance I won't be locate it before the meeting tonight. Thanks, Steve Robert Zeh wrote: > As I've already mentioned, the meeting will be at: > > Club Quarters, Central Loop > 111 West Adams Street > (Next to the Rookery and near LaSalle) > Chicago, IL 60603 > > As I have not mentioned, Club Quarters is right next door to the > Elephant and Castle restaurant. After going in through the door, > there is a bank of elevators to the right. Take an elevator to the > third floor, and then go to the "Adams" room. The Adams room is right > outside the elevator bank on the third floor. > > Signs will be posted. > > Robert > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > From goodmansond at gmail.com Thu Jan 10 19:51:27 2008 From: goodmansond at gmail.com (DeanG) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 12:51:27 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] PyCon (games) Message-ID: Regarding PyCon ad-hoc socializing around board games... Mayfair Games, based in Skokie, may be interested in supporting this effort. Loaner games, Sponsorship, discount coupons, ... http://mayfairgames.com/ About Page contacts: PR Inquiries? Direct To: Guido Teuber gteuber at mayfairgames.com Phone: 510-315-1978 Fax: 510-903-1496 Sales and Marketing Inquiries? Direct To: Bob Carty sales at mayfairgames.com Phone: 813-707-6659 Fax: 813-707-8791 --------- Over Christmas I learned of this company and their excellent Train/Rail and Card games. They're likely most well known for the Settlers of Catan series. - Dean From tcp at mac.com Thu Jan 10 19:53:02 2008 From: tcp at mac.com (Ted Pollari) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 12:53:02 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Additional details for January 10th, 2008 meeting In-Reply-To: <478667D7.2050307@caret.cam.ac.uk> References: <8A9BC7EA-0FA2-4EA0-954F-15723EEDA90A@gmail.com> <478667D7.2050307@caret.cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: <89B1F6B3-EB05-47C9-B4CF-F9E7E7C9EBBD@mac.com> On Jan 10, 2008, at 12:45 PM, swg wrote: > Does someone have a 13" Macbook VGAish dongle I might be able to use > with the projector tonight? I know I have one somewhere, but since I > can't locate it right now, there's a good chance I won't be locate it > before the meeting tonight. To be clear, since I screwed this all up previously -- you're looking for a mini-dvi => VGA adapter? -t (sadly, mine's in WA at the moment) From van.lindberg at gmail.com Thu Jan 10 19:55:22 2008 From: van.lindberg at gmail.com (VanL) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 12:55:22 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] [PyCON-Organizers] PyCon (games) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47866A1A.7080607@gmail.com> DeanG wrote: > Regarding PyCon ad-hoc socializing around board games... > > Mayfair Games, based in Skokie, may be interested in supporting this > effort. Loaner games, Sponsorship, discount coupons, ... > Thats a great idea. Would you be willing to send them an email asking about their interest? If they are interested, send them to me -we could probably work out something beneficial for everyone. Thanks, Van (Sponsorship Coordinator) From sgithens at caret.cam.ac.uk Thu Jan 10 20:13:40 2008 From: sgithens at caret.cam.ac.uk (swg) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 13:13:40 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Additional details for January 10th, 2008 meeting In-Reply-To: <89B1F6B3-EB05-47C9-B4CF-F9E7E7C9EBBD@mac.com> References: <8A9BC7EA-0FA2-4EA0-954F-15723EEDA90A@gmail.com> <478667D7.2050307@caret.cam.ac.uk> <89B1F6B3-EB05-47C9-B4CF-F9E7E7C9EBBD@mac.com> Message-ID: <47866E64.4010309@caret.cam.ac.uk> I *think* that's what it's called. Just in case I took a picture: http://www.githens.org/images/MacbookDonglerThing.png - Steve Ted Pollari wrote: > On Jan 10, 2008, at 12:45 PM, swg wrote: > > >> Does someone have a 13" Macbook VGAish dongle I might be able to use >> with the projector tonight? I know I have one somewhere, but since I >> can't locate it right now, there's a good chance I won't be locate it >> before the meeting tonight. >> > > > To be clear, since I screwed this all up previously -- you're looking > for a mini-dvi => VGA adapter? > > -t > > (sadly, mine's in WA at the moment) > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > From ianb at colorstudy.com Thu Jan 10 20:21:58 2008 From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 13:21:58 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] PyCon (games) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47867056.9090700@colorstudy.com> In past years there have been game nights. I think AMK organized them? There were enough board game enthusiasts that brought their own games to satisfy the people who attended. If someone wants to take the lead on organizing this I'm sure that would be appreciated. I think organization has in the past primarily taken the form of getting it on the schedule, bringing some games, and posting a sign at the appropriate time. -- Ian Bicking : ianb at colorstudy.com : http://blog.ianbicking.org From sgithens at caret.cam.ac.uk Thu Jan 10 20:57:47 2008 From: sgithens at caret.cam.ac.uk (swg) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 13:57:47 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Additional details for January 10th, 2008 meeting In-Reply-To: <47866E64.4010309@caret.cam.ac.uk> References: <8A9BC7EA-0FA2-4EA0-954F-15723EEDA90A@gmail.com> <478667D7.2050307@caret.cam.ac.uk> <89B1F6B3-EB05-47C9-B4CF-F9E7E7C9EBBD@mac.com> <47866E64.4010309@caret.cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: <478678BB.7030707@caret.cam.ac.uk> Actually, since this isn't too far away from the michigan ave store, I should probably just pick up an extra one on the way tonight. s swg wrote: > I *think* that's what it's called. Just in case I took a picture: > > http://www.githens.org/images/MacbookDonglerThing.png > > - Steve > > Ted Pollari wrote: > >> On Jan 10, 2008, at 12:45 PM, swg wrote: >> >> >> >>> Does someone have a 13" Macbook VGAish dongle I might be able to use >>> with the projector tonight? I know I have one somewhere, but since I >>> can't locate it right now, there's a good chance I won't be locate it >>> before the meeting tonight. >>> >>> >> To be clear, since I screwed this all up previously -- you're looking >> for a mini-dvi => VGA adapter? >> >> -t >> >> (sadly, mine's in WA at the moment) >> _______________________________________________ >> Chicago mailing list >> Chicago at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > From ebjono at gmail.com Thu Jan 10 21:02:55 2008 From: ebjono at gmail.com (Jono) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 14:02:55 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Lightning talk at tonight's meeting? Message-ID: Hello Chipy members, I know it's the last minute, but I'm wondering if I could sign up to do a lightning talk at tonight's Chipy meeting. The subject is "making video games with kids"; I want to briefly show off a cheesy game I made with pyglet* to entertain my 7-year-old sister; she did all the artwork for it. It's really cute. * no, it doesn't have any bees in it. Yet. Also, I'd volunteer for organizing board-gaming sessions at PyCon; I have a lot of board games I can volunteer to bring as well. --Jono DiCarlo, Humanized, Inc. From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com Thu Jan 10 21:14:49 2008 From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 14:14:49 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Lightning talk at tonight's meeting? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3096c19d0801101214p6f339a90sb41a3b56128ceff8@mail.gmail.com> Hi Jono, We have a pretty full schedule tonight, but can probably squeeze you in. No bees? Nevermind, there's no room for you. ;) Chris :| :( I learned how to do emoticons this week. On Jan 10, 2008 2:02 PM, Jono wrote: > Hello Chipy members, > I know it's the last minute, but I'm wondering if I could sign up to > do a lightning talk at tonight's Chipy meeting. The subject is > "making video games with kids"; I want to briefly show off a cheesy > game I made with pyglet* to entertain my 7-year-old sister; she did > all the artwork for it. It's really cute. > > * no, it doesn't have any bees in it. Yet. > > Also, I'd volunteer for organizing board-gaming sessions at PyCon; I > have a lot of board games I can volunteer to bring as well. > > --Jono DiCarlo, Humanized, Inc. > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com Thu Jan 10 21:17:13 2008 From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 14:17:13 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Additional details for January 10th, 2008 meeting In-Reply-To: <478678BB.7030707@caret.cam.ac.uk> References: <8A9BC7EA-0FA2-4EA0-954F-15723EEDA90A@gmail.com> <478667D7.2050307@caret.cam.ac.uk> <89B1F6B3-EB05-47C9-B4CF-F9E7E7C9EBBD@mac.com> <47866E64.4010309@caret.cam.ac.uk> <478678BB.7030707@caret.cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: <3096c19d0801101217o191eae5fi2cb6086da0dea283@mail.gmail.com> I have one you can borrow. On Jan 10, 2008 1:57 PM, swg wrote: > Actually, since this isn't too far away from the michigan ave store, I > should probably just pick up an extra one on the way tonight. > > s > > > swg wrote: > > I *think* that's what it's called. Just in case I took a picture: > > > > http://www.githens.org/images/MacbookDonglerThing.png > > > > - Steve > > > > Ted Pollari wrote: > > > >> On Jan 10, 2008, at 12:45 PM, swg wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>> Does someone have a 13" Macbook VGAish dongle I might be able to use > >>> with the projector tonight? I know I have one somewhere, but since I > >>> can't locate it right now, there's a good chance I won't be locate it > >>> before the meeting tonight. > >>> > >>> > >> To be clear, since I screwed this all up previously -- you're looking > >> for a mini-dvi => VGA adapter? > >> > >> -t > >> > >> (sadly, mine's in WA at the moment) > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Chicago mailing list > >> Chicago at python.org > >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > >> > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago mailing list > > Chicago at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com Thu Jan 10 22:57:03 2008 From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 13:57:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Chicago] Additional details for January 10th, 2008 meeting In-Reply-To: <47866E64.4010309@caret.cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: <649204.36619.qm@web34814.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Next time, give a little warning when you post obscene links to this mailing list! I don't mind, but there might be children present ;-) Anyone else see Superbad? That was a great movie... --- swg wrote: > I *think* that's what it's called. Just in case I took a picture: > > http://www.githens.org/images/MacbookDonglerThing.png > > - Steve > > Ted Pollari wrote: > > On Jan 10, 2008, at 12:45 PM, swg wrote: > > > > > >> Does someone have a 13" Macbook VGAish dongle I might be able to > use > >> with the projector tonight? I know I have one somewhere, but > since I > >> can't locate it right now, there's a good chance I won't be > locate it > >> before the meeting tonight. > >> > > > > > > To be clear, since I screwed this all up previously -- you're > looking > > for a mini-dvi => VGA adapter? > > > > -t > > > > (sadly, mine's in WA at the moment) > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago mailing list > > Chicago at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From sgithens at caret.cam.ac.uk Thu Jan 10 23:06:04 2008 From: sgithens at caret.cam.ac.uk (swg) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 16:06:04 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Lightning talk at tonight's meeting? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <478696CC.1060606@caret.cam.ac.uk> Jono wrote: > Hello Chipy members, > I know it's the last minute, but I'm wondering if I could sign up to > do a lightning talk at tonight's Chipy meeting. The subject is > "making video games with kids"; I want to briefly show off a cheesy > game I made with pyglet* to entertain my 7-year-old sister; she did > all the artwork for it. It's really cute. > I was planning on shooting for lightening talk length with my thing tonight (that's 10 minutes right?) so there should probably time. -Steve > * no, it doesn't have any bees in it. Yet. > > Also, I'd volunteer for organizing board-gaming sessions at PyCon; I > have a lot of board games I can volunteer to bring as well. > > --Jono DiCarlo, Humanized, Inc. > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > From varmaa at gmail.com Thu Jan 10 23:10:54 2008 From: varmaa at gmail.com (Atul Varma) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 16:10:54 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Lightning talk at tonight's meeting? In-Reply-To: <478696CC.1060606@caret.cam.ac.uk> References: <478696CC.1060606@caret.cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: <361b27370801101410t723eb42dtfa03a3e3b8b47705@mail.gmail.com> I'm also planning for a pretty short talk myself, like 20 minutes max I guess. So I think there should be time from my end too. On Jan 10, 2008 4:06 PM, swg wrote: > Jono wrote: > > Hello Chipy members, > > I know it's the last minute, but I'm wondering if I could sign up to > > do a lightning talk at tonight's Chipy meeting. The subject is > > "making video games with kids"; I want to briefly show off a cheesy > > game I made with pyglet* to entertain my 7-year-old sister; she did > > all the artwork for it. It's really cute. > > > I was planning on shooting for lightening talk length with my thing > tonight (that's 10 minutes right?) so there should probably time. > > -Steve > > > * no, it doesn't have any bees in it. Yet. > > > > Also, I'd volunteer for organizing board-gaming sessions at PyCon; I > > have a lot of board games I can volunteer to bring as well. > > > > --Jono DiCarlo, Humanized, Inc. > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago mailing list > > Chicago at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > From sgithens at caret.cam.ac.uk Thu Jan 10 23:26:27 2008 From: sgithens at caret.cam.ac.uk (swg) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 16:26:27 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Additional details for January 10th, 2008 meeting In-Reply-To: <649204.36619.qm@web34814.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <649204.36619.qm@web34814.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <47869B93.3060600@caret.cam.ac.uk> Feihong Hsu wrote: > Next time, give a little warning when you post obscene links to this > mailing list! I don't mind, but there might be children present ;-) > > Anyone else see Superbad? That was a great movie... > I haven't actually, but I can see in retrospect that I could have made some better decisions when naming and laying out my visual explanation... :) -steve > --- swg wrote: > > >> I *think* that's what it's called. Just in case I took a picture: >> >> http://www.githens.org/images/MacbookDonglerThing.png >> >> - Steve >> >> Ted Pollari wrote: >> >>> On Jan 10, 2008, at 12:45 PM, swg wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> Does someone have a 13" Macbook VGAish dongle I might be able to >>>> >> use >> >>>> with the projector tonight? I know I have one somewhere, but >>>> >> since I >> >>>> can't locate it right now, there's a good chance I won't be >>>> >> locate it >> >>>> before the meeting tonight. >>>> >>>> >>> To be clear, since I screwed this all up previously -- you're >>> >> looking >> >>> for a mini-dvi => VGA adapter? >>> >>> -t >>> >>> (sadly, mine's in WA at the moment) >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Chicago mailing list >>> Chicago at python.org >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago >>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Chicago mailing list >> Chicago at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago >> >> > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com Fri Jan 11 16:29:21 2008 From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 07:29:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Chicago] Last ChiPy Meeting In-Reply-To: <47869B93.3060600@caret.cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: <449275.33208.qm@web34802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I want to thank all four presenters and Robert Zeh of GETCO for a wonderful meeting with great turnout! (Not to say that all of our meetings aren't fabulous.) I had a few impressions I wanted to share with everyone: - I don't attend ChiPy meetings for the free food, but I was pleasantly surprised by the spread. Thanks, Robert! - We forgot to do "roll call", where everybody introduces himself with his name and workplace/interests/favorite module. I don't think it's a big deal for regulars, but it definitely has a benefit to newcomers: they can match names on the mailing list with actual faces, and they can learn about what companies in the area are using Python. Plus it's just a good ice breaker, period. - With PyCon right around the corner, I think we can expect a higher attendance in February (maybe not as many as last night, but higher than usual). I know that what motivated me to attend my first ChiPy meeting (last year) was that I wanted to meet some people before I went to my first PyCon. This might also be true for other first-time registrants of PyCon. Cheers, Feihong ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From tim_sw2000 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 11 16:50:46 2008 From: tim_sw2000 at yahoo.com (Tim Wee) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 07:50:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Chicago] Book that Pickle Presenter mentioned last nite Message-ID: <678502.7887.qm@web52907.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hey guys, I was wondering if anyone remembered the book that the Pickle presenter mentioned last nite, that was supposed to have a great explanation abt python classes, metaclasses, etc. Thanks, Tim ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080111/c1041006/attachment.htm From tottinge at gmail.com Fri Jan 11 16:59:31 2008 From: tottinge at gmail.com (Tim Ottinger) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 09:59:31 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Last ChiPy Meeting In-Reply-To: <449275.33208.qm@web34802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <449275.33208.qm@web34802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <47879263.5060806@gmail.com> My interleaved comments are all gush and mush, so the hurried reader can ignore them. OTOH, this is the impression of a python programmer at his first meeting. Feihong Hsu wrote: > I had a few impressions I wanted to share with everyone: > > - I don't attend ChiPy meetings for the free food, but I was > pleasantly surprised by the spread. Thanks, Robert! > It was my first meeting and I was shocked and awed, if you pardon the expression. > - We forgot to do "roll call", where everybody introduces himself > with his name and workplace/interests/favorite module. I don't think > it's a big deal for regulars, but it definitely has a benefit to > newcomers: they can match names on the mailing list with actual > faces, and they can learn about what companies in the area are using > Python. Plus it's just a good ice breaker, period. > I could have met you. I'm sorry I did not. > - With PyCon right around the corner, I think we can expect a higher > attendance in February (maybe not as many as last night, but higher > than usual). I know that what motivated me to attend my first ChiPy > meeting (last year) was that I wanted to meet some people before I > went to my first PyCon. This might also be true for other first-time > registrants of PyCon. > I intend to attend more of them, and may even start an extreme NW burbs PUG to keep this going. I also wanted to thank the presenters. While I have been doing python for a while, it seems that some of them are having more fun than me. I think I want more fun, too. It's a good reason to come back again and again. From varmaa at gmail.com Fri Jan 11 17:25:12 2008 From: varmaa at gmail.com (Atul Varma) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 10:25:12 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Book that Pickle Presenter mentioned last nite In-Reply-To: <678502.7887.qm@web52907.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <678502.7887.qm@web52907.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <361b27370801110825g40f6bb7ehacf058132dcc9f71@mail.gmail.com> Hi Tim, The book I mentioned was "Python Essential Reference", by Dave Beazley (who is actually a ChiPyzen, he just can't make most of our meetings because he's in a jazz band that often performs on Thursday evenings): http://www.amazon.com/Python-Essential-Reference-Developers-Library/dp/0672328623/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1200068623&sr=8-1 - Atul On Jan 11, 2008 9:50 AM, Tim Wee wrote: > > Hey guys, > > I was wondering if anyone remembered the book that the Pickle presenter > mentioned last nite, that was supposed to have a great explanation abt > python classes, metaclasses, etc. > > Thanks, > Tim > > > > ________________________________ > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com Fri Jan 11 17:25:45 2008 From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 08:25:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Chicago] My Tutorial! In-Reply-To: <361b27370801101410t723eb42dtfa03a3e3b8b47705@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <363017.23844.qm@web34804.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Although the PyCon 2008 talk schedule has not yet been finalized, the tutorial schedule has already been officially announced: http://pycon.blogspot.com/2008/01/pycon-tutorial-sessions-announced.html Kumar McMillan and I worked on a tutorial together, and it is titled "Secrets of the Framework Creators": http://us.pycon.org/2008/tutorials/FrameworksHsu/ Our target audience for the tutorial is intermediate Python programmers, see the "Requirements" section for more details. One thing that distinguishes our tutorial is that we look at a number of well-known python modules and discuss how they use advanced Python features to implement their APIs. We then go through a couple of targeted examples that show how to use a particular Python feature in a realistic usage scenario. Our goal is to help you understand how to write libraries/frameworks that have simpler, cleaner APIs, thus reducing the amount of code you write when you use your library. Quite a bit of the material in the tutorial is tied to what I learned as I was making wxPita, the programming of which really stretched the limits of my Python knowledge. I wouldn't go as far as calling myself an "educator", but I do have some background in teaching computer science at the college level and also English at the junior high level. So you can expect a reasonably polished presentation, not the fumbling-through-illegible-notes style you saw at the wxPita talk (I blame that one on lack of preparation, which won't be an issue here). I hope you'll consider signing up for our tutorial! And even if you don't, I hope to see you all at PyCon in March! Sincerely, Feihong ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com Fri Jan 11 17:30:12 2008 From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 08:30:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Chicago] Book that Pickle Presenter mentioned last nite In-Reply-To: <678502.7887.qm@web52907.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <884136.16683.qm@web34803.mail.mud.yahoo.com> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0735710910 The author's name is David Beazley, he lives right here in Chicago and makes his living doing Python training. --- Tim Wee wrote: > Hey guys, > > I was wondering if anyone remembered the book that the Pickle > presenter mentioned last nite, that was supposed to have a great > explanation abt python classes, metaclasses, etc. > > Thanks, > Tim > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Looking for last minute shopping deals? > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping> _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping From varmaa at gmail.com Fri Jan 11 17:31:10 2008 From: varmaa at gmail.com (Atul Varma) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 10:31:10 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Last ChiPy Meeting In-Reply-To: <47879263.5060806@gmail.com> References: <449275.33208.qm@web34802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <47879263.5060806@gmail.com> Message-ID: <361b27370801110831m36740d40rdf70134935be1700@mail.gmail.com> I'd like to thank the presenters too--that was an awesome meeting, except for the part about not doing the roll call. :) - Atul On Jan 11, 2008 9:59 AM, Tim Ottinger wrote: > My interleaved comments are all gush and mush, so the hurried reader can > ignore them. > OTOH, this is the impression of a python programmer at his first meeting. > > > Feihong Hsu wrote: > > I had a few impressions I wanted to share with everyone: > > > > - I don't attend ChiPy meetings for the free food, but I was > > pleasantly surprised by the spread. Thanks, Robert! > > > It was my first meeting and I was shocked and awed, if you pardon the > expression. > > - We forgot to do "roll call", where everybody introduces himself > > with his name and workplace/interests/favorite module. I don't think > > it's a big deal for regulars, but it definitely has a benefit to > > newcomers: they can match names on the mailing list with actual > > faces, and they can learn about what companies in the area are using > > Python. Plus it's just a good ice breaker, period. > > > I could have met you. I'm sorry I did not. > > - With PyCon right around the corner, I think we can expect a higher > > attendance in February (maybe not as many as last night, but higher > > than usual). I know that what motivated me to attend my first ChiPy > > meeting (last year) was that I wanted to meet some people before I > > went to my first PyCon. This might also be true for other first-time > > registrants of PyCon. > > > I intend to attend more of them, and may even start an extreme NW burbs > PUG to keep this going. > > I also wanted to thank the presenters. While I have been doing python > for a while, it seems that some of them are having more fun than me. I > think I want more fun, too. It's a good reason to come back again and > again. > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > From cwebber at imagescape.com Fri Jan 11 17:31:09 2008 From: cwebber at imagescape.com (Christopher Allan Webber) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 10:31:09 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Good Tech Bookstores in Chicagoland? In-Reply-To: <4335d2c40801101028w2cc56379x21d61876b908f41d@mail.gmail.com> (David Goodger's message of "Thu, 10 Jan 2008 13:28:27 -0500") References: <4335d2c40801071356j691db13eka1b78160e0f773c6@mail.gmail.com> <4335d2c40801101028w2cc56379x21d61876b908f41d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6ymyrc9vea.fsf@imagepc03.rd.imagescape.com> "David Goodger" writes: > Actually, the "Python For Dummies" book is quite good, as a > beginner-level text. Aahz co-wrote it, and I tech-edited it. Unlike > many books out there, it gets the concept of Python names (vs. other > languages' variable) right. I made sure of it ;-) Good to know. I'll have to check it out. I'm constantly trying to introduce people to python. Actually, I have to admit that my first real introduction to computers was an ancient DOS for Dummies book that my father handed me, and the index and glossary that came with QBASIC. That's right, I learned how to program without any tutorials, like a REAL MAN. As it turns out, REAL MEN are about 11 years old and write pretty shitty programs. I passed my states and capitals test with programming that looked something like this (Note that I don't remember qbasic syntax any more, so this is probably wrong.): IF $CAPITAL_ANSWER == 'MADISON' AND $STATE == 'WISCONSIN': GOTO CAPITAL_ANSWER_IS_RIGHT ELSE GOTO CAPITAL_ANSWER_IS_WRONG ... for every single state and capital combination, and since it quizzed you for either capitals or states, that was 100 IF/ELSE statements. But I passed that test, dammit. Also, the application played "Yankee Doodle" through my PC speakers when it started up, which, when I was 11 years old, was just about the coolest thing ever. From shekay at pobox.com Fri Jan 11 17:41:23 2008 From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 10:41:23 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Last ChiPy Meeting In-Reply-To: <361b27370801110831m36740d40rdf70134935be1700@mail.gmail.com> References: <449275.33208.qm@web34802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <47879263.5060806@gmail.com> <361b27370801110831m36740d40rdf70134935be1700@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I was so disappointed that y'all didn't do roll call. When Carl came back from the meeting last night I immediately asked what everyone's favorite module this month is. (of course I asked about the rest of the meeting too) On Jan 11, 2008 10:31 AM, Atul Varma wrote: > I'd like to thank the presenters too--that was an awesome meeting, > except for the part about not doing the roll call. :) > > - Atul > > > On Jan 11, 2008 9:59 AM, Tim Ottinger wrote: > > My interleaved comments are all gush and mush, so the hurried reader can > > ignore them. > > OTOH, this is the impression of a python programmer at his first meeting. > > > > > > Feihong Hsu wrote: > > > I had a few impressions I wanted to share with everyone: > > > > > > - I don't attend ChiPy meetings for the free food, but I was > > > pleasantly surprised by the spread. Thanks, Robert! > > > > > It was my first meeting and I was shocked and awed, if you pardon the > > expression. > > > - We forgot to do "roll call", where everybody introduces himself > > > with his name and workplace/interests/favorite module. I don't think > > > it's a big deal for regulars, but it definitely has a benefit to > > > newcomers: they can match names on the mailing list with actual > > > faces, and they can learn about what companies in the area are using > > > Python. Plus it's just a good ice breaker, period. > > > > > I could have met you. I'm sorry I did not. > > > - With PyCon right around the corner, I think we can expect a higher > > > attendance in February (maybe not as many as last night, but higher > > > than usual). I know that what motivated me to attend my first ChiPy > > > meeting (last year) was that I wanted to meet some people before I > > > went to my first PyCon. This might also be true for other first-time > > > registrants of PyCon. > > > > > I intend to attend more of them, and may even start an extreme NW burbs > > PUG to keep this going. > > > > I also wanted to thank the presenters. While I have been doing python > > for a while, it seems that some of them are having more fun than me. I > > think I want more fun, too. It's a good reason to come back again and > > again. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago mailing list > > Chicago at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > -- sheila From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com Fri Jan 11 17:47:40 2008 From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 08:47:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Chicago] Good Tech Bookstores in Chicagoland? In-Reply-To: <6ymyrc9vea.fsf@imagepc03.rd.imagescape.com> Message-ID: <667539.82749.qm@web34802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Reminds me of when I used to program formulas and algorithms into my calculator to use during high school math tests. Unfortunately I didn't ace every test, because my programs had too many bugs and 30 minutes is not enough time to debug a BASIC program without a keyboard. What I'm wondering is, how the heck did you pass your states and capitals test with a DOS computer? Did they let you lug your computer into the classroom and set it on top of your desk? --- Christopher Allan Webber wrote: > "David Goodger" writes: > > > Actually, the "Python For Dummies" book is quite good, as a > > beginner-level text. Aahz co-wrote it, and I tech-edited it. > Unlike > > many books out there, it gets the concept of Python names (vs. > other > > languages' variable) right. I made sure of it ;-) > > Good to know. I'll have to check it out. I'm constantly trying to > introduce people to python. > > Actually, I have to admit that my first real introduction to > computers > was an ancient DOS for Dummies book that my father handed me, and > the > index and glossary that came with QBASIC. That's right, I learned > how > to program without any tutorials, like a REAL MAN. As it turns > out, > REAL MEN are about 11 years old and write pretty shitty programs. > I > passed my states and capitals test with programming that looked > something like this (Note that I don't remember qbasic syntax any > more, so this is probably wrong.): > > IF $CAPITAL_ANSWER == 'MADISON' AND $STATE == 'WISCONSIN': > GOTO CAPITAL_ANSWER_IS_RIGHT > ELSE > GOTO CAPITAL_ANSWER_IS_WRONG > > ... for every single state and capital combination, and since it > quizzed you for either capitals or states, that was 100 IF/ELSE > statements. But I passed that test, dammit. > > Also, the application played "Yankee Doodle" through my PC speakers > when it started up, which, when I was 11 years old, was just about > the > coolest thing ever. > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping From matt at datawaslost.net Fri Jan 11 17:41:13 2008 From: matt at datawaslost.net (Matt Dennewitz) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 10:41:13 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] My Tutorial! In-Reply-To: <363017.23844.qm@web34804.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <363017.23844.qm@web34804.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4AEB3DCA-8EBE-4461-9E41-C7C685CEA67E@datawaslost.net> This is one of the tutorials Im really looking forward to. It seems to be an excellent bridge from intermediate to "getting your feet wet in the more serious aspects of Python." On Jan 11, 2008, at 10:25 AM, Feihong Hsu wrote: > Although the PyCon 2008 talk schedule has not yet been finalized, the > tutorial schedule has already been officially announced: > > http://pycon.blogspot.com/2008/01/pycon-tutorial-sessions-announced.html > > Kumar McMillan and I worked on a tutorial together, and it is titled > "Secrets of the Framework Creators": > > http://us.pycon.org/2008/tutorials/FrameworksHsu/ > > Our target audience for the tutorial is intermediate Python > programmers, see the "Requirements" section for more details. > > One thing that distinguishes our tutorial is that we look at a number > of well-known python modules and discuss how they use advanced Python > features to implement their APIs. We then go through a couple of > targeted examples that show how to use a particular Python feature in > a realistic usage scenario. Our goal is to help you understand how to > write libraries/frameworks that have simpler, cleaner APIs, thus > reducing the amount of code you write when you use your library. > Quite a bit of the material in the tutorial is tied to what I learned > as I was making wxPita, the programming of which really stretched the > limits of my Python knowledge. > > I wouldn't go as far as calling myself an "educator", but I do have > some background in teaching computer science at the college level and > also English at the junior high level. So you can expect a reasonably > polished presentation, not the fumbling-through-illegible-notes style > you saw at the wxPita talk (I blame that one on lack of preparation, > which won't be an issue here). > > I hope you'll consider signing up for our tutorial! And even if you > don't, I hope to see you all at PyCon in March! > > Sincerely, > > Feihong > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > From cwebber at imagescape.com Fri Jan 11 18:02:16 2008 From: cwebber at imagescape.com (Christopher Allan Webber) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 11:02:16 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Good Tech Bookstores in Chicagoland? In-Reply-To: <667539.82749.qm@web34802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> (Feihong Hsu's message of "Fri, 11 Jan 2008 08:47:40 -0800 (PST)") References: <667539.82749.qm@web34802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6yir209tyf.fsf@imagepc03.rd.imagescape.com> > What I'm wondering is, how the heck did you pass your states and > capitals test with a DOS computer? Did they let you lug your computer > into the classroom and set it on top of your desk? I didn't take the test with the program, I used it to study. I had failed the test two times prior. I finally passed after I wrote myself a program that fit my memorization needs. I've never been good at memorizing blunt data. Half of the memorization actually happened while tediously writing that program though. From robkapteyn at gmail.com Fri Jan 11 18:06:25 2008 From: robkapteyn at gmail.com (Rob Kapteyn) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 11:06:25 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] link to pyExcelerator module Message-ID: Here is a link to the pyExcelerator module that was mentioned last night. http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pyExcelerator I have used it both to read and write Excel speadsheets. It is alpha and hasn't been updated for a while, but I have found it to be reasonably stable. The documentation is not great. I remember having a unicode issue (that was Excel's fault). -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080111/3bda56f8/attachment.htm From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com Fri Jan 11 18:31:05 2008 From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 09:31:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Chicago] link to pyExcelerator module In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <905885.1646.qm@web34805.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I can also attest that pyExcelerator works pretty well. It doesn't have issues writing out simple spreadsheets, and actually runs faster than going through the Excel COM interface. And of course it runs on non-Windows platforms as well. --- Rob Kapteyn wrote: > Here is a link to the pyExcelerator module that was mentioned last > > night. > > http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pyExcelerator > > I have used it both to read and write Excel speadsheets. > It is alpha and hasn't been updated for a while, but I have found > it > to be reasonably stable. > The documentation is not great. > I remember having a unicode issue (that was Excel's fault). > > -Rob > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From robkapteyn at gmail.com Fri Jan 11 18:53:36 2008 From: robkapteyn at gmail.com (Rob Kapteyn) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 11:53:36 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] link to pyExcelerator module In-Reply-To: <905885.1646.qm@web34805.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <905885.1646.qm@web34805.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I just noticed a newer version is available in a sourceforge subversion repository: svn co https://pyexcelerator.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/ pyexcelerator pyexcelerator And yes, it is fast and has no external dependencies (on COM). I have used it on Windows, Mac OS X, Solaris, and linux. -Rob On Jan 11, 2008, at 11:31 AM, Feihong Hsu wrote: > I can also attest that pyExcelerator works pretty well. It doesn't > have issues writing out simple spreadsheets, and actually runs faster > than going through the Excel COM interface. And of course it runs on > non-Windows platforms as well. > > --- Rob Kapteyn wrote: > >> Here is a link to the pyExcelerator module that was mentioned last >> >> night. >> >> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pyExcelerator >> >> I have used it both to read and write Excel speadsheets. >> It is alpha and hasn't been updated for a while, but I have found >> it >> to be reasonably stable. >> The documentation is not great. >> I remember having a unicode issue (that was Excel's fault). >> >> -Rob >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> Chicago mailing list >> Chicago at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago >> > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago From skip at pobox.com Fri Jan 11 19:19:45 2008 From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 12:19:45 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Last ChiPy Meeting In-Reply-To: <47879263.5060806@gmail.com> References: <449275.33208.qm@web34802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <47879263.5060806@gmail.com> Message-ID: <18311.45889.652863.30354@montanaro.dyndns.org> >> - With PyCon right around the corner, I think we can expect a higher >> attendance in February (maybe not as many as last night, but higher >> than usual). I know that what motivated me to attend my first ChiPy >> meeting (last year) was that I wanted to meet some people before I >> went to my first PyCon. This might also be true for other first-time >> registrants of PyCon. >> Tim> I intend to attend more of them, and may even start an extreme NW Tim> burbs PUG to keep this going. Hmmm.... I smell a webcast opportunity. Skip From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com Fri Jan 11 19:40:29 2008 From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 12:40:29 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Last ChiPy Meeting In-Reply-To: <449275.33208.qm@web34802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <47869B93.3060600@caret.cam.ac.uk> <449275.33208.qm@web34802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3096c19d0801111040n7fbb5089yd8c1a248ffc47cc3@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 11, 2008 9:29 AM, Feihong Hsu wrote: > I want to thank all four presenters and Robert Zeh of GETCO for a > wonderful meeting with great turnout! (Not to say that all of our > meetings aren't fabulous.) Agreed...great meeting. Thanks all. > - We forgot to do "roll call" We usually don't do roll call when we have a ton of people. Last night felt like a ton of people. With four speakers, trying to get around the room might have pushed us out pretty late. Chris From varmaa at gmail.com Fri Jan 11 19:56:35 2008 From: varmaa at gmail.com (Atul Varma) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 12:56:35 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Last ChiPy Meeting In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0801111040n7fbb5089yd8c1a248ffc47cc3@mail.gmail.com> References: <47869B93.3060600@caret.cam.ac.uk> <449275.33208.qm@web34802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <3096c19d0801111040n7fbb5089yd8c1a248ffc47cc3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <361b27370801111056ndd56524wc117e4ac5aef79ec@mail.gmail.com> For anyone who's interested, you can get the PDF slides for my pickle talk here: http://www.toolness.com/wp/?p=20 Also, Jono made a blog post in late November about his presentation topic last night, which was the video game he created with his 7-year-old sister: http://www.evilbrainjono.net/cgi-bin/blog/showblog.cgi?permalink=408 - Atul On Jan 11, 2008 12:40 PM, Chris McAvoy wrote: > On Jan 11, 2008 9:29 AM, Feihong Hsu wrote: > > I want to thank all four presenters and Robert Zeh of GETCO for a > > wonderful meeting with great turnout! (Not to say that all of our > > meetings aren't fabulous.) > > Agreed...great meeting. Thanks all. > > > - We forgot to do "roll call" > > We usually don't do roll call when we have a ton of people. Last > night felt like a ton of people. With four speakers, trying to get > around the room might have pushed us out pretty late. > > Chris > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > From robkapteyn at gmail.com Fri Jan 11 21:00:47 2008 From: robkapteyn at gmail.com (Rob Kapteyn) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 14:00:47 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Ideas for Pycon Message-ID: <6BEA9890-26A6-4090-BD70-3D2AA64F9B97@gmail.com> In the bar after the ChiPy meeting, some of us stumbled upon some ideas for PyCon activities. Normally, St. Patrick's Day is on March 17, but we discovered that for 2008, St. Patrick's Day is officially moved to Saturday, March 15 -- during PyCon ! 1. Since St. Patrick is reputed to have driven the snakes out of Ireland -- we have a great party theme ;-) 2. Any brave volunteers want to dress up as St. Patrick and his entourage ? 3. We know that Chicago is one of the world's greatest places to celebrate this holiday -- is there there a place near the hotel that we should recommend ? We should be careful not to go overboard. We don't want to offend anyone and we want to maintain a *somewhat* professional image for the conference. Unfortunately, the dyeing of the Chicago River and the parade conflict with the conference schedule, but it is something that spouses would be interested in: http://www.saintpatricksdayparade.com/chicago/ -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080111/f8a5e63b/attachment.htm From pfein at pobox.com Sat Jan 12 00:17:09 2008 From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 18:17:09 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Ideas for Pycon In-Reply-To: <6BEA9890-26A6-4090-BD70-3D2AA64F9B97@gmail.com> References: <6BEA9890-26A6-4090-BD70-3D2AA64F9B97@gmail.com> Message-ID: <200801111817.09092.pfein@pobox.com> On Friday January 11 2008 3:00:47 pm Rob Kapteyn wrote: > We should be careful not to go overboard. > We don't want to offend anyone and we want to maintain a *somewhat* > professional image for the conference. Along those lines, I added an entry for a Beer Birds of Feather: http://wiki.python.org/moin/Birds_of_a_Feather --Pete -- Peter Fein || 773-575-0694 || pfein at pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~pfein/ || PGP: 0xCCF6AE6B irc: pfein at freenode.net || jabber: peter.fein at gmail.com From goodger at python.org Fri Jan 11 23:58:31 2008 From: goodger at python.org (David Goodger) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 17:58:31 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] [PyCON-Organizers] Ideas for Pycon In-Reply-To: <6BEA9890-26A6-4090-BD70-3D2AA64F9B97@gmail.com> References: <6BEA9890-26A6-4090-BD70-3D2AA64F9B97@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4787F497.40208@python.org> [Rob Kapteyn] > In the bar after the ChiPy meeting, some of us stumbled upon some ideas > for PyCon activities. > > Normally, St. Patrick's Day is on March 17, but we discovered that for > 2008, St. Patrick's Day is officially moved to Saturday, March 15 -- > during PyCon ! And those who really enjoy their green beer will doubtless celebrate on both days. ;-) I encourage the ChiPy members to organize events like this. Who will take the title of "Social Coordinator"? -- David > 1. Since St. Patrick is reputed to have driven the snakes out of Ireland > -- we have a great party theme ;-) > 2. Any brave volunteers want to dress up as St. Patrick and his entourage ? > 3. We know that Chicago is one of the world's greatest places to > celebrate this holiday -- is there there a place near the hotel that we > should recommend ? > > We should be careful not to go overboard. > We don't want to offend anyone and we want to maintain a *somewhat* > professional image for the conference. > > Unfortunately, the dyeing of the Chicago River and the parade conflict > with the conference schedule, but it is something that spouses would be > interested in: > http://www.saintpatricksdayparade.com/chicago/ > > -Rob -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080111/239001cd/attachment.pgp From oouc at yahoo.com Sat Jan 12 09:38:04 2008 From: oouc at yahoo.com (Johnny) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 00:38:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Chicago] [PyCON-Organizers] Good Tech Bookstores in Chicagoland? In-Reply-To: <4335d2c40801101033u59487693qed34a2fea67fe0c0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <284665.7818.qm@web30813.mail.mud.yahoo.com> http://www.nerdbooks.com/ has prices much lower than Amazon. They have let the Dallas Python group use their place twice a month for meetings with free drinks, wifi, and ethernet. Unless you actually want to lug books home, give nerdbooks a try. Johnny --- David Goodger wrote: > I read over the discussion here, thanks for your input everyone! > > It looks like there's no clearcut winning candidate out there, and > since O'Reilly has offered to run a bookstore booth at PyCon, we'll go > with them. That's the path of least resistance, and O'Reilly has some > of the best books anyhow. They'll be bringing titles from: > > * No Starch Press > * O'Reilly > * Paraglyph Press > * PC Publishing > * Pragmatic Bookshelf > * Rocky Nook > * SitePoint > * YoungJin > > -- > David Goodger > _______________________________________________ > Pycon-organizers mailing list > Pycon-organizers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pycon-organizers > Objective Oriented Unification Commitment. We all have gifts and limitations. I'm using my gifts to help others overcome limitations. Will you do the same for me? From bray at sent.com Mon Jan 14 04:16:38 2008 From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray) Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 21:16:38 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Jan '08 Video Posted and looking for advice Message-ID: <36D6E396-1BE9-4101-9FD7-2E2843457CE4@sent.com> Group: I posted the video and will be reposting a better quality version soon if some of you can help me work out the details (Disclaimer: I am totally new to recording and publishing video). If you can't wait here is the first try: Admittedly, the quality is poor on my first try. The aspect ratio I shot in was different than how I posted to Google Video--so its skewed to letterbox. The video looks and sounds much better on my computer before I post. I shot the video in HD widescreen and went to mp4 the way the google video suggests in its FAQ. I am not sure I like the quality of any of the videos on a hosted web viewer solution versus the pod-casts I view through iTunes. But, I am also concerned if other pod-cast readers are readily available (Linux? Windows?) so that all of you viewing can use any feed I produce. If everyone can use this format, I would like to explore the option of using the mv4 format in the form of a podcast. IE, it would be nice to have a RSS feed just for meetings. I did see a Python package called PyRSS2Gen http://www.dalkescientific.com/Python/PyRSS2Gen.html. Does anybody know the correlation between the content of the RSS entry for video and the example used on this website? For instance, is the content of each entry just html pointing to the video data as a hyperlink? What do I need to consider if I want to optimize for devices like the iPhone and iPod? Also, the video is kind of large in the mv4 or mp4 formats. Its like around 400-600Meg for 1 hour with the compressions I have available on my platform. Also, the video when digitized from the HD format takes 60 Gigs. So, I do not really want to save the original data on disk. Also, I do not really want to host the data in the mv4 or mp4 formats on the ChiPy Server. Its just a lot of disk space and bandwidth. What other options do I have. Can I use a file hosting service in conjunction with a link from a RSS feed I do host on ChiPy Server? Someone else suggested a torrent. I am not sure how this works either. Like I mentioned before, I am a novice and do want to continue recording and sharing this information online. Any suggestions or advice? I am looking forward to learning but do not know where to start. Brian Ray bray at sent.com http://kazavoo.com/blog From jason at multiply.org Mon Jan 14 05:26:46 2008 From: jason at multiply.org (jason gessner) Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 22:26:46 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Jan '08 Video Posted and looking for advice In-Reply-To: <36D6E396-1BE9-4101-9FD7-2E2843457CE4@sent.com> References: <36D6E396-1BE9-4101-9FD7-2E2843457CE4@sent.com> Message-ID: <4e0c849b0801132026r4d2d32bcp23a9d139d8b7c138@mail.gmail.com> hehehe. if you are going to put these online shooting HD is probably overkill. If you can go to DV standard def, you will be at 13 gig an hour for the raw footage. also, i am biased towards mac software but imovie will help you export directly to youtube and may solve your aspect ratio problem. from a lurker who couldn't make the meeting (or any meeting for the last year and a half) kudos and huzzah for video taping the precedings! -jason On Jan 13, 2008 9:16 PM, Brian Ray wrote: > Group: > > I posted the video and will be reposting a better quality version soon > if some of you can help me work out the details (Disclaimer: I am > totally new to recording and publishing video). If you can't wait here > is the first try: > > > > Admittedly, the quality is poor on my first try. The aspect ratio I > shot in was different than how I posted to Google Video--so its skewed > to letterbox. The video looks and sounds much better on my computer > before I post. I shot the video in HD widescreen and went to mp4 the > way the google video suggests in its FAQ. I am not sure I like the > quality of any of the videos on a hosted web viewer solution versus > the pod-casts I view through iTunes. But, I am also concerned if > other pod-cast readers are readily available (Linux? Windows?) so that > all of you viewing can use any feed I produce. > > If everyone can use this format, I would like to explore the option of > using the mv4 format in the form of a podcast. IE, it would be nice to > have a RSS feed just for meetings. I did see a Python package called > PyRSS2Gen http://www.dalkescientific.com/Python/PyRSS2Gen.html. Does > anybody know the correlation between the content of the RSS entry for > video and the example used on this website? For instance, is the > content of each entry just html pointing to the video data as a > hyperlink? What do I need to consider if I want to optimize for > devices like the iPhone and iPod? > > Also, the video is kind of large in the mv4 or mp4 formats. Its like > around 400-600Meg for 1 hour with the compressions I have available on > my platform. Also, the video when digitized from the HD format takes > 60 Gigs. So, I do not really want to save the original data on disk. > Also, I do not really want to host the data in the mv4 or mp4 formats > on the ChiPy Server. Its just a lot of disk space and bandwidth. What > other options do I have. Can I use a file hosting service in > conjunction with a link from a RSS feed I do host on ChiPy Server? > > Someone else suggested a torrent. I am not sure how this works either. > > Like I mentioned before, I am a novice and do want to continue > recording and sharing this information online. Any suggestions or > advice? I am looking forward to learning but do not know where to start. > > Brian Ray > bray at sent.com > http://kazavoo.com/blog > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com Mon Jan 14 14:10:44 2008 From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 07:10:44 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Jan '08 Video Posted and looking for advice In-Reply-To: <36D6E396-1BE9-4101-9FD7-2E2843457CE4@sent.com> References: <36D6E396-1BE9-4101-9FD7-2E2843457CE4@sent.com> Message-ID: <3096c19d0801140510s5c70dc35x4badf76601462ef3@mail.gmail.com> Hey Brian, Great work! The video looks really good. Could you update the description to not include the CouchDB talk? The speaker wasn't able to make it. Chris On Jan 13, 2008 9:16 PM, Brian Ray wrote: > Group: > > I posted the video and will be reposting a better quality version soon > if some of you can help me work out the details (Disclaimer: I am > totally new to recording and publishing video). If you can't wait here > is the first try: > > > > Admittedly, the quality is poor on my first try. The aspect ratio I > shot in was different than how I posted to Google Video--so its skewed > to letterbox. The video looks and sounds much better on my computer > before I post. I shot the video in HD widescreen and went to mp4 the > way the google video suggests in its FAQ. I am not sure I like the > quality of any of the videos on a hosted web viewer solution versus > the pod-casts I view through iTunes. But, I am also concerned if > other pod-cast readers are readily available (Linux? Windows?) so that > all of you viewing can use any feed I produce. > > If everyone can use this format, I would like to explore the option of > using the mv4 format in the form of a podcast. IE, it would be nice to > have a RSS feed just for meetings. I did see a Python package called > PyRSS2Gen http://www.dalkescientific.com/Python/PyRSS2Gen.html. Does > anybody know the correlation between the content of the RSS entry for > video and the example used on this website? For instance, is the > content of each entry just html pointing to the video data as a > hyperlink? What do I need to consider if I want to optimize for > devices like the iPhone and iPod? > > Also, the video is kind of large in the mv4 or mp4 formats. Its like > around 400-600Meg for 1 hour with the compressions I have available on > my platform. Also, the video when digitized from the HD format takes > 60 Gigs. So, I do not really want to save the original data on disk. > Also, I do not really want to host the data in the mv4 or mp4 formats > on the ChiPy Server. Its just a lot of disk space and bandwidth. What > other options do I have. Can I use a file hosting service in > conjunction with a link from a RSS feed I do host on ChiPy Server? > > Someone else suggested a torrent. I am not sure how this works either. > > Like I mentioned before, I am a novice and do want to continue > recording and sharing this information online. Any suggestions or > advice? I am looking forward to learning but do not know where to start. > > Brian Ray > bray at sent.com > http://kazavoo.com/blog > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > From varmaa at gmail.com Mon Jan 14 19:26:12 2008 From: varmaa at gmail.com (Atul Varma) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 12:26:12 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] OT: Displaying a Macbook/MBP screen to an external monitor only Message-ID: <361b27370801141026s2d046e6en4bd89841b138db55@mail.gmail.com> Someone at our last ChiPy meeting asked me if it was possible to display a Macbook/Macbook Pro screen to an external monitor only--i.e., not have the image show on the laptop screen. At the time I didn't know the answer to the question, but when I was fiddling around with the brightness on my screen over the weekend, I found one answer. If you set the brightness on a Mac laptop screen all the way down, it actually turns off completely. IMO this is more humane than most PC solutions I've seen, because, among other things, it means that the "display configuration toggle" button only toggles between two states (mirror and extended desktop) instead of three or more. In any case, if you want to display a Mac laptop's screen only to an external monitor, just set the display mode to mirror (using Fn-F7) and then set the brightness of your laptop screen all the way down. I've heard that another way to do this is to shut the lid on your Mac so that it goes to sleep, and then plug in an external monitor, keyboard and mouse and "wake it up" with the mouse/keyboard. The Mac will then be usable and display its image to the external monitor, but its lid will be shut. (Sorry to post this to the Chicago list, but I'm not sure who originally asked me the question.) - Atul From maney at two14.net Mon Jan 14 21:09:21 2008 From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 14:09:21 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] PyCon (housing) In-Reply-To: <47864232.6080008@yahoo.com> References: <47864232.6080008@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20080114200921.GA17940@furrr.two14.net> On Thu, Jan 10, 2008 at 10:05:06AM -0600, Christian Long wrote: > ... time for such frivolity with so much Python to digest? No, no, no. The Python doesn't get digested, the Python digests you. It may take some time, but that's the natural order of things. -- Threaten not the comic with your lawyers' bluster, all toothless to suppress parody and satire; for you will not amuse him, but you may inspire him. (me, inspired by http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/01/Apr/mcrhf.html) From ianb at colorstudy.com Tue Jan 15 17:52:38 2008 From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 10:52:38 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] First OLPC Chicago meeting @ Google, Jan 22 In-Reply-To: <882925.67745.qm@web34805.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <882925.67745.qm@web34805.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <478CE4D6.9010502@colorstudy.com> Chicago-area OLPC-ers: we're having our first meetup. This is coming up a week from now, so please forward to any friends, family, mailing lists, etc. you think might be interested. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_Chicago#Jan._22_Meetup The first COGG (Chicago-OLPC Grassroots Group) meeting is Jan 22, 2008 at Google Chicago (20 West Kinzie St, Chicago IL). This being Google, snacks and drinks will be provided. Thanks to Jon and Fitz from Google and Ian from OpenPlans for setting this up! Doors open at 6:30, meeting starts at 6:45 and runs 'till 8:30. Everyone is welcome - teachers, coders, students, engineers, artists, parents, interested people from around the neighborhood - no experience required. Part of this meeting is so everyone can meet each other and learn how to get involved as well as share and collaborate on existing projects. rough agenda (feel free to add): * very brief overview of OLPC and how you can get involved * Project show-and-tell ** students from the [[Illinois Math and Science Academy Chapter]] will give rocket-pitch overviews of their projects ** anyone else? * upcoming events / help wanted ** Chris Brown looking for OLPC presenters in Wilmette for Feb. 4 to demo/explain the program at a teachers' tech conference ** OLPC at [http://us.pycon.org/2008/tutorials/SugarFletcher/ PyCon 2008] in March; attend, network, present, hack? ** full-time OLPC-Chicago office-hub probably opening this summer * project brainstorming / hacking time Contact mel at laptop dot org to RSVP by Friday, Jan. 18 at noon CST. We need a roster in advance to let everyone into the building. From bray at sent.com Wed Jan 16 03:53:13 2008 From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 20:53:13 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Jan '08 Video Posted and looking for advice In-Reply-To: <36D6E396-1BE9-4101-9FD7-2E2843457CE4@sent.com> References: <36D6E396-1BE9-4101-9FD7-2E2843457CE4@sent.com> Message-ID: <75935C45-46D0-4A31-A4C4-73CE3834A9BA@sent.com> Here is a slightly better (at least not skewed) upload: http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=9098066500960313251&hl=en Thanks for the advice on stuff, guys. Yes I used iMovie. Not sure it is as robust on the editing side as I need. May make a switch to Final Cut Pro although I am not sure it will fit on the really **thin** MacBook I hope to upgrade (downgrade?) to soon ;) OT but also kudos the the humanized crew who are featured in this video and have just been issued to Mozilla team: http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/01/15/breaking-mozilla-buying-humanized/ -- Brian On Jan 13, 2008, at 9:16 PM, Brian Ray wrote: > Group: > > I posted the video and will be reposting a better quality version soon > if some of you can help me work out the details (Disclaimer: I am > totally new to recording and publishing video). If you can't wait here > is the first try: > > > > Admittedly, the quality is poor on my first try. The aspect ratio I > shot in was different than how I posted to Google Video--so its skewed > to letterbox. The video looks and sounds much better on my computer > before I post. I shot the video in HD widescreen and went to mp4 the > way the google video suggests in its FAQ. I am not sure I like the > quality of any of the videos on a hosted web viewer solution versus > the pod-casts I view through iTunes. But, I am also concerned if > other pod-cast readers are readily available (Linux? Windows?) so that > all of you viewing can use any feed I produce. > > If everyone can use this format, I would like to explore the option of > using the mv4 format in the form of a podcast. IE, it would be nice to > have a RSS feed just for meetings. I did see a Python package called > PyRSS2Gen http://www.dalkescientific.com/Python/PyRSS2Gen.html. Does > anybody know the correlation between the content of the RSS entry for > video and the example used on this website? For instance, is the > content of each entry just html pointing to the video data as a > hyperlink? What do I need to consider if I want to optimize for > devices like the iPhone and iPod? > > Also, the video is kind of large in the mv4 or mp4 formats. Its like > around 400-600Meg for 1 hour with the compressions I have available on > my platform. Also, the video when digitized from the HD format takes > 60 Gigs. So, I do not really want to save the original data on disk. > Also, I do not really want to host the data in the mv4 or mp4 formats > on the ChiPy Server. Its just a lot of disk space and bandwidth. What > other options do I have. Can I use a file hosting service in > conjunction with a link from a RSS feed I do host on ChiPy Server? > > Someone else suggested a torrent. I am not sure how this works either. > > Like I mentioned before, I am a novice and do want to continue > recording and sharing this information online. Any suggestions or > advice? I am looking forward to learning but do not know where to > start. > > Brian Ray > bray at sent.com > http://kazavoo.com/blog > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago Brian Ray bray at sent.com http://kazavoo.com/blog From maney at two14.net Fri Jan 18 02:30:05 2008 From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 19:30:05 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Review Board reviewed Message-ID: <20080118013005.GA27310@furrr.two14.net> I can't recall who is using/looking at which tools for code review, but I'm sure there will be some interest 'round here in this LWN review of the Django-based Code Review. It's right at the top of their front page, too: http://lwn.net/Articles/264518/ Oh, you aren't a subscriber? Well, okay, here's a free taste: http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/265239/4f94787692d1952a/ The reviewer seems to like it a lot... -- C++ is the grandmother of invention. From skip at pobox.com Fri Jan 18 03:21:50 2008 From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 20:21:50 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Review Board reviewed In-Reply-To: <20080118013005.GA27310@furrr.two14.net> References: <20080118013005.GA27310@furrr.two14.net> Message-ID: <18320.3390.603127.889@montanaro.dyndns.org> Martin> I can't recall who is using/looking at which tools for code Martin> review, but I'm sure there will be some interest 'round here in Martin> this LWN review of the Django-based Code Review. Thanks for the pointer. I checked out Review Board awhile ago but did nothing with it. I just svn up'd and went looking for docs. Found nothing. The README file is zero-length. Aside from guessing that I need to edit settings_local.py.temp and save it as settings_local.py, what do I need to do? Does it need access to a repository? If so, it's not at all obvious to me how I'm supposed to provide that. Oh, I see some stuff on their wiki. It seems the README file could at least direct people there... Skip From skip at pobox.com Sat Jan 19 15:56:30 2008 From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 08:56:30 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] February meeting date/location? Message-ID: <18322.3998.680795.600012@montanaro.dyndns.org> When and where will the February meeting be held? Given that it will be the last meeting between PyCon I was thinking maybe we should check with the PyCon folks to see if there's any recon we can do. Maybe we could convince the conference hotel to let us use a room? I'm hoping to actually make it to the meeting this time given the almost-PyCon timing and the likelihood of PyCon at least being part of the agenda. Skip From paulsmith at pobox.com Sun Jan 20 03:44:26 2008 From: paulsmith at pobox.com (Paul Smith) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 20:44:26 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Talk proposal for Feb: mapping Message-ID: <8c58fcec0801191844i7be32c52s6c42124447308167@mail.gmail.com> I'd like to propose a talk for the February meeting. I've been working with various mapping libraries with Python support lately and it's a maturing field. The U of MN's Mapserver project has had Python bindings for a few years, and now there's an upstart in Mapnik that gaining ground. When you couple the ability to render maps in your application with UI libraries like OpenLayers, it all adds up to a pretty powerful combination for presenting geospatial data over the web. If there's any interest in this topic, I'd like to give a quick tutorial in setting up a mapping solution from scratch with Mapnik, Django, and OpenLayers. Looking forward to the meeting and to PyCon, Cheers, -Paul -- Paul Smith http://www.pauladamsmith.com/ From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com Sun Jan 20 15:02:49 2008 From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 08:02:49 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Talk proposal for Feb: mapping In-Reply-To: <8c58fcec0801191844i7be32c52s6c42124447308167@mail.gmail.com> References: <8c58fcec0801191844i7be32c52s6c42124447308167@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3096c19d0801200602wa3bd60are692d9c528beaf07@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 19, 2008 8:44 PM, Paul Smith wrote: > If there's any interest in this topic, I'd like to give a quick > tutorial in setting up a mapping solution from scratch with Mapnik, > Django, and OpenLayers. I'm a solid +1 on this topic. Chris From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com Sun Jan 20 15:04:16 2008 From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 08:04:16 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] February meeting date/location? In-Reply-To: <18322.3998.680795.600012@montanaro.dyndns.org> References: <18322.3998.680795.600012@montanaro.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <3096c19d0801200604g7fdb48c2o89876a2861e8bfb5@mail.gmail.com> This is a good idea...I'll see what we can whip up. Chris On Jan 19, 2008 8:56 AM, wrote: > When and where will the February meeting be held? Given that it will be the > last meeting between PyCon I was thinking maybe we should check with the > PyCon folks to see if there's any recon we can do. Maybe we could convince > the conference hotel to let us use a room? I'm hoping to actually make it > to the meeting this time given the almost-PyCon timing and the likelihood of > PyCon at least being part of the agenda. > > Skip > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > From stcorbett at gmail.com Mon Jan 21 02:23:28 2008 From: stcorbett at gmail.com (Sean Corbett) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 19:23:28 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Talk proposal for Feb: mapping In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0801200602wa3bd60are692d9c528beaf07@mail.gmail.com> References: <8c58fcec0801191844i7be32c52s6c42124447308167@mail.gmail.com> <3096c19d0801200602wa3bd60are692d9c528beaf07@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: +1! -Sean Corbett On 1/20/08, Chris McAvoy wrote: > > On Jan 19, 2008 8:44 PM, Paul Smith wrote: > > If there's any interest in this topic, I'd like to give a quick > > tutorial in setting up a mapping solution from scratch with Mapnik, > > Django, and OpenLayers. > > I'm a solid +1 on this topic. > > Chris > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080120/a0dc2f93/attachment.htm From cstejerean at gmail.com Mon Jan 21 03:46:33 2008 From: cstejerean at gmail.com (Cosmin Stejerean) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 20:46:33 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Talk proposal for Feb: mapping In-Reply-To: <8c58fcec0801191844i7be32c52s6c42124447308167@mail.gmail.com> References: <8c58fcec0801191844i7be32c52s6c42124447308167@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <276266d0801201846p2a4cac4al9e94ad85a6bd548b@mail.gmail.com> +1 On Jan 19, 2008 8:44 PM, Paul Smith wrote: > I'd like to propose a talk for the February meeting. I've been working > with various mapping libraries with Python support lately and it's a > maturing field. The U of MN's Mapserver project has had Python > bindings for a few years, and now there's an upstart in Mapnik that > gaining ground. When you couple the ability to render maps in your > application with UI libraries like OpenLayers, it all adds up to a > pretty powerful combination for presenting geospatial data over the > web. > > If there's any interest in this topic, I'd like to give a quick > tutorial in setting up a mapping solution from scratch with Mapnik, > Django, and OpenLayers. > > Looking forward to the meeting and to PyCon, > > Cheers, > -Paul > > -- > Paul Smith > http://www.pauladamsmith.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > -- Cosmin Stejerean http://blog.offbytwo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080120/09d2a575/attachment.htm From ramadeus at rcn.com Sun Jan 20 23:25:06 2008 From: ramadeus at rcn.com (Mike Kramlich) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 16:25:06 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Talk proposal for Feb: mapping Message-ID: <000b01c85bb3$4fb8bdc0$16029418@MIKEP43GHZ> >"Paul Smith" said: >If there's any interest in this topic, I'd like to give a quick >tutorial in setting up a mapping solution from scratch with Mapnik, >Django, and OpenLayers. I'm interested. Mike Kramlich ZodLogic Games From cwebber at imagescape.com Mon Jan 21 16:35:22 2008 From: cwebber at imagescape.com (Christopher Allan Webber) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 09:35:22 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Talk proposal for Feb: mapping In-Reply-To: <000b01c85bb3$4fb8bdc0$16029418@MIKEP43GHZ> (Mike Kramlich's message of "Sun, 20 Jan 2008 16:25:06 -0600") References: <000b01c85bb3$4fb8bdc0$16029418@MIKEP43GHZ> Message-ID: <6y8x2jp4xx.fsf@imagescape.com> +1 from me too "Mike Kramlich" writes: >>"Paul Smith" said: >>If there's any interest in this topic, I'd like to give a quick >>tutorial in setting up a mapping solution from scratch with Mapnik, >>Django, and OpenLayers. > > I'm interested. > > Mike Kramlich > ZodLogic Games > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago From jason at multiply.org Tue Jan 22 00:21:53 2008 From: jason at multiply.org (jason gessner) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 17:21:53 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Review Board reviewed In-Reply-To: <18320.3390.603127.889@montanaro.dyndns.org> References: <20080118013005.GA27310@furrr.two14.net> <18320.3390.603127.889@montanaro.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <4e0c849b0801211521s47ddd110o8bf232ef84a64c77@mail.gmail.com> hi skip. i just set this up on a work machine and it was definitely trial and error without great docs. from the getting started guide at http://code.google.com/p/reviewboard/wiki/GettingStarted make sure you have all of the python requirements installed: pysvn (if using svn) PIL (used for screenshots, but it doesn't seem to run if you don't have it there). I had the most trouble with pysvn. On my older ubuntu machine (edgy) i could not get pysvn to access my svn over https repo without segfaulting. I upgraded to feisty, recompiled and all was well. Once you have the settings running, fire up the server and go to the admin site. Create whatever users you want, plus review groups and a repository. Once that is all set up, you should be able to go to the root of the server and create a new review request. hopefully that helps a bit. I am goig to verify my setup instructions with someone else at work if people like the app, so when i do that, i'll post up the instructions. So far the app is pretty nice. Anyone else used it? -jason On Jan 17, 2008 8:21 PM, wrote: > > Martin> I can't recall who is using/looking at which tools for code > Martin> review, but I'm sure there will be some interest 'round here in > Martin> this LWN review of the Django-based Code Review. > > Thanks for the pointer. I checked out Review Board awhile ago but did > nothing with it. I just svn up'd and went looking for docs. Found nothing. > The README file is zero-length. Aside from guessing that I need to edit > settings_local.py.temp and save it as settings_local.py, what do I need to > do? Does it need access to a repository? If so, it's not at all obvious to > me how I'm supposed to provide that. Oh, I see some stuff on their wiki. > It seems the README file could at least direct people there... > > Skip > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > From jason at multiply.org Tue Jan 22 04:12:25 2008 From: jason at multiply.org (jason gessner) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 21:12:25 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] python 3 on leopard anyone? In-Reply-To: <1198784058.14842.1228450035@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <4e0c849b0712260918j21ea2a53ldb415a29b987cbd3@mail.gmail.com> <1198784058.14842.1228450035@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <4e0c849b0801211912h4244f137k8bca9ac24c03f07c@mail.gmail.com> to close the loop on this. This was weird. I had my terminal set up so that LANG was en_US and the python 3.0a2 distro would not build. when i set my LANG to en_US.utf8 all was well in the world. Here as an example from my terminal illustrating the problem. network-192-168-1-102:~ jason$ export LANG=en_US network-192-168-1-102:~ jason$ python Python 3.0a2 (r30a2:59382, Jan 5 2008, 16:35:28) [GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Inc. build 5465)] on darwin Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>> 1 >>> 2 >>> network-192-168-1-102:~ jason$ python Python 3.0a2 (r30a2:59382, Jan 5 2008, 16:35:28) [GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Inc. build 5465)] on darwin Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>> 1 1 >>> weird. Just thought this might affect others. -jason On Dec 27, 2007 1:34 PM, wrote: > > On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 11:18:53 -0600, "jason gessner" > said: > > > > > i don't want to clutter the list with a bunch of compiler flag > > questions, but has anyone had any luck getting ptyhon 3 alphas > > compiled on leopard? If so, please contact me off list (or if others > > say they are interested on the list) with any notes you have on what > > it took. > > > > I suggest you repost this question to the Python Mac SIG > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig after searching > the archive. There also is a #macpython and #pyobjc that are mostly > quiet (freenode). I find #macdev probably the most useful. But > sometimes you will get scored for talking about things not Cocoa > oriented--its a thick skin channel. > > > Best, > > Brian Ray > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > From skip at pobox.com Tue Jan 22 04:47:26 2008 From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 21:47:26 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] python 3 on leopard anyone? In-Reply-To: <4e0c849b0801211912h4244f137k8bca9ac24c03f07c@mail.gmail.com> References: <4e0c849b0712260918j21ea2a53ldb415a29b987cbd3@mail.gmail.com> <1198784058.14842.1228450035@webmail.messagingengine.com> <4e0c849b0801211912h4244f137k8bca9ac24c03f07c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <18325.26446.184540.144263@montanaro.dyndns.org> jason> Here as an example from my terminal illustrating the problem. ... Is this a known bug? If not, you should submit a bug report at bugs.python.org. Tag it with "py3k". Skip From bray at sent.com Tue Jan 22 07:46:17 2008 From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 00:46:17 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] python 3 on leopard anyone? In-Reply-To: <4e0c849b0801211912h4244f137k8bca9ac24c03f07c@mail.gmail.com> References: <4e0c849b0712260918j21ea2a53ldb415a29b987cbd3@mail.gmail.com> <1198784058.14842.1228450035@webmail.messagingengine.com> <4e0c849b0801211912h4244f137k8bca9ac24c03f07c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: That is a little weird. I found the same thing: [mini] Python-3.0a2 9 > /usr/local/bin/python Python 3.0a2 (r30a2:59382, Jan 21 2008, 23:57:05) [GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Inc. build 5465)] on darwin Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>> 1 1 >>> 2 2 >>> [mini] Python-3.0a2 10 > export LANG=en_US [mini] Python-3.0a2 11 > /usr/local/bin/python Python 3.0a2 (r30a2:59382, Jan 21 2008, 23:57:05) [GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Inc. build 5465)] on darwin Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>> 1 >>> 2 You should file a bug. My guess is that it has something to do with the readline dependancy. Perhaps mention that if LANG=en_US, then readline is dynamically loaded from "/usr/local/lib/python3.0/lib-dynload/readline.so". in the other case it is loaded from "/System/Library/Frameworks/ Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/python2.5/lib-dynload/readline.so". You can see this by send python the "-v" flag. A temporarily fix would be to force the the use of the system readline while configuring. But I do not know how this would work in case others build this without autoconfig. I tried debugging this myself, http://wiki.python.org/moin/DebuggingWithGdb , but I am either to tired tonight or lack the tolerance to understand the cruft of workaround for previous issues with locale in the readline that ships with Python. Brian Ray bray at sent.com http://kazavoo.com/blog From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com Tue Jan 22 14:28:05 2008 From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 07:28:05 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] python 3 on leopard anyone? In-Reply-To: References: <4e0c849b0712260918j21ea2a53ldb415a29b987cbd3@mail.gmail.com> <1198784058.14842.1228450035@webmail.messagingengine.com> <4e0c849b0801211912h4244f137k8bca9ac24c03f07c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3096c19d0801220528m690af118ucde9507ac48d02ee@mail.gmail.com> Saw this recently, http://ipython.scipy.org/moin/InstallationOSXLeopard It's for IPython, but it specifically talks about readline. Might help... Chris On Jan 22, 2008 12:46 AM, Brian Ray wrote: > That is a little weird. I found the same thing: > > [mini] Python-3.0a2 9 > /usr/local/bin/python > Python 3.0a2 (r30a2:59382, Jan 21 2008, 23:57:05) > [GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Inc. build 5465)] on darwin > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. > >>> 1 > 1 > >>> 2 > 2 > >>> > [mini] Python-3.0a2 10 > export LANG=en_US > [mini] Python-3.0a2 11 > /usr/local/bin/python > Python 3.0a2 (r30a2:59382, Jan 21 2008, 23:57:05) > [GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Inc. build 5465)] on darwin > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. > >>> 1 > >>> 2 > > > You should file a bug. My guess is that it has something to do with > the readline dependancy. > > Perhaps mention that if LANG=en_US, then readline is dynamically > loaded from "/usr/local/lib/python3.0/lib-dynload/readline.so". in the > other case it is loaded from "/System/Library/Frameworks/ > Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/python2.5/lib-dynload/readline.so". > You can see this by send python the "-v" flag. A temporarily fix would > be to force the the use of the system readline while configuring. But > I do not know how this would work in case others build this without > autoconfig. > > I tried debugging this myself, http://wiki.python.org/moin/DebuggingWithGdb > , but I am either to tired tonight or lack the tolerance to understand > the cruft of workaround for previous issues with locale in the > readline that ships with Python. > > > Brian Ray > bray at sent.com > http://kazavoo.com/blog > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > From tcp at mac.com Tue Jan 22 19:19:35 2008 From: tcp at mac.com (Ted Pollari) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:19:35 -0800 Subject: [Chicago] tshirts? Message-ID: <50E669B9-C036-4CC7-AE58-DCD39AEF486B@mac.com> So, about this time last year, I threw together buttons for the ChiPy folks, primarily aimed at making us the cool kids at PyCon 2007... anyone want to do tshirts this year? That logo Brantley put out there was pretty cool... it'd be great to see something more come of that. -t From varmaa at gmail.com Tue Jan 22 19:25:17 2008 From: varmaa at gmail.com (Atul Varma) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:25:17 -0800 Subject: [Chicago] tshirts? In-Reply-To: <50E669B9-C036-4CC7-AE58-DCD39AEF486B@mac.com> References: <50E669B9-C036-4CC7-AE58-DCD39AEF486B@mac.com> Message-ID: <361b27370801221025p76e85c99t477dd73cbfc78c52@mail.gmail.com> I've got the one from last year, that never printed: http://www.cafepress.com/cp/customize/product.aspx?clear=true&number=109266329 Variations can be made (black/navy blue background, etc). - Atul On Jan 22, 2008 10:19 AM, Ted Pollari wrote: > So, about this time last year, I threw together buttons for the ChiPy > folks, primarily aimed at making us the cool kids at PyCon 2007... > anyone want to do tshirts this year? That logo Brantley put out there > was pretty cool... it'd be great to see something more come of that. > > > -t > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu Tue Jan 22 22:59:10 2008 From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:59:10 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] import question Message-ID: <38B90A37-4B8F-4B35-96A6-2534ED2F6F28@cs.depaul.edu> Hello everybody, I was hoping you could help me. Say I have a module called test test/ __init__.py other.py and __init__.py says from test.other import something so that I can from test import something Now I do not want to install the module but I want to place it under a folder called contrib: contrib/ test/ __init__.py other.py and I want to be able to say from contrib.test import something Now __init__ fails to find test.other because that's contrib.test.other. Two natural solutions are: 1) edit __init__.py and replace test.other with write contrib.test.other. This is not acceptable for me since I do not want to maintain the test module. 2) add contrib to the path. This is also not acceptable because creates countless problems with py2exe and py2app. I have many modules and files with similar issues. Does anybody know of a third solution? Massimo P.S. No need to say this has something to do with www.web2py.com From skip at pobox.com Tue Jan 22 23:05:32 2008 From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:05:32 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] import question In-Reply-To: <38B90A37-4B8F-4B35-96A6-2534ED2F6F28@cs.depaul.edu> References: <38B90A37-4B8F-4B35-96A6-2534ED2F6F28@cs.depaul.edu> Message-ID: <18326.26796.546624.28792@montanaro.dyndns.org> Massimo> Two natural solutions are: Massimo> 1) edit __init__.py and replace test.other with write Massimo> contrib.test.other. This is not acceptable for me since I do not want Massimo> to maintain the test module. Massimo> 2) add contrib to the path. This is also not acceptable because Massimo> creates countless problems with py2exe and py2app. I have many Massimo> modules and files with similar issues. Massimo> Does anybody know of a third solution? 2.6 (maybe 2.5 as well?) has some relative import notation using dots, similar to, but not identical to unix parent directory notation. I think you want something like from .test.other import something Skip From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu Tue Jan 22 23:10:42 2008 From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:10:42 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] import question In-Reply-To: <18326.26796.546624.28792@montanaro.dyndns.org> References: <38B90A37-4B8F-4B35-96A6-2534ED2F6F28@cs.depaul.edu> <18326.26796.546624.28792@montanaro.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <0A377244-B206-46FB-81EB-7C1DEB5ECBBA@cs.depaul.edu> Not sure I see how I would use it? Doesn't is still require that I edit __init__.py? Massimo On Jan 22, 2008, at 4:05 PM, skip at pobox.com wrote: > > Massimo> Two natural solutions are: > Massimo> 1) edit __init__.py and replace test.other with write > Massimo> contrib.test.other. This is not acceptable for me > since I do not want > Massimo> to maintain the test module. > > Massimo> 2) add contrib to the path. This is also not > acceptable because > Massimo> creates countless problems with py2exe and py2app. I > have many > Massimo> modules and files with similar issues. > > Massimo> Does anybody know of a third solution? > > 2.6 (maybe 2.5 as well?) has some relative import notation using dots, > similar to, but not identical to unix parent directory notation. I > think > you want something like > > from .test.other import something > > Skip > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago From pfein at pobox.com Tue Jan 22 23:33:25 2008 From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 17:33:25 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] import question In-Reply-To: <38B90A37-4B8F-4B35-96A6-2534ED2F6F28@cs.depaul.edu> References: <38B90A37-4B8F-4B35-96A6-2534ED2F6F28@cs.depaul.edu> Message-ID: <200801221733.25572.pfein@pobox.com> On Tuesday January 22 2008 4:59:10 pm Massimo Di Pierro wrote: > Hello everybody, > > I was hoping you could help me. > > Say I have a module called test > > test/ > __init__.py > other.py > > and __init__.py says > > from test.other import something > > so that I can > > from test import something > > Now I do not want to install the module but I want to place it under > a folder called contrib: > > contrib/ > test/ > __init__.py > other.py > > and I want to be able to say > > from contrib.test import something > > Now __init__ fails to find test.other because that's contrib.test.other. I'm presuming contrib is a package here, ie, that contrib/__init__.py exists. That said, under Python 2.5+, in contrib/test/__init__.py you can write: from .other import something That's a relative import, see http://docs.python.org/whatsnew/pep-328.html If you're targeting <2.5, you'll need to do one of the alternatives you suggested - (1) is clearly better, as you noted. -- Peter Fein || 773-575-0694 || pfein at pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~pfein/ || PGP: 0xCCF6AE6B irc: pfein at freenode.net || jabber: peter.fein at gmail.com From cstejerean at gmail.com Tue Jan 22 23:36:06 2008 From: cstejerean at gmail.com (Cosmin Stejerean) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:36:06 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] import question In-Reply-To: <38B90A37-4B8F-4B35-96A6-2534ED2F6F28@cs.depaul.edu> References: <38B90A37-4B8F-4B35-96A6-2534ED2F6F28@cs.depaul.edu> Message-ID: <276266d0801221436n15d67d68pad07a18e5ab1c323@mail.gmail.com> adding both contrib and test in your example to the path is indeed bad since as far as Python is concerned contrib.test and test refer to two separate modules. The __init__.py inside of the test package contains "from test.other import something"? It can simply be from other import something which would bring something into test. This won't work in more complicated situations like test/ __init__.py package1/ __init__.py mod1.py package2/ __init__.py mod2.py If mod2.py from package2 needs to reference something from package1 it had no choice traditionally but to refernece package1 as test.package1 (which causes exactly the problems you describe). This is the reason relative imports were added but it does require patching the library in question. I don't think there is any way around this other than: 1. put the test under an external directory that is added to the path, not inside another package 2. patch the library by either a) using relative imports (breaks compatibility with 2.4 and possibly 2.5 ) b) refactor using a library like py-ioc (http://code.google.com/p/py-ioc/), a library that I wrote to solve similar problems - Cosmin On Jan 22, 2008 3:59 PM, Massimo Di Pierro wrote: > Hello everybody, > > I was hoping you could help me. > > Say I have a module called test > > test/ > __init__.py > other.py > > and __init__.py says > > from test.other import something > > so that I can > > from test import something > > Now I do not want to install the module but I want to place it under > a folder called contrib: > > contrib/ > test/ > __init__.py > other.py > > and I want to be able to say > > from contrib.test import something > > Now __init__ fails to find test.other because that's contrib.test.other. > > Two natural solutions are: > 1) edit __init__.py and replace test.other with write > contrib.test.other. This is not acceptable for me since I do not want > to maintain the test module. > 2) add contrib to the path. This is also not acceptable because > creates countless problems with py2exe and py2app. I have many > modules and files with similar issues. > > Does anybody know of a third solution? > > Massimo > > P.S. No need to say this has something to do with www.web2py.com > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > -- Cosmin Stejerean http://blog.offbytwo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080122/323fbe49/attachment.htm From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com Tue Jan 22 23:37:15 2008 From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:37:15 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] import question In-Reply-To: <38B90A37-4B8F-4B35-96A6-2534ED2F6F28@cs.depaul.edu> References: <38B90A37-4B8F-4B35-96A6-2534ED2F6F28@cs.depaul.edu> Message-ID: On Jan 22, 2008 3:59 PM, Massimo Di Pierro wrote: > Hello everybody, > > I was hoping you could help me. > > Say I have a module called test > > test/ > __init__.py > other.py > > and __init__.py says > > from test.other import something > > so that I can > > from test import something > > Now I do not want to install the module but I want to place it under > a folder called contrib: > > contrib/ > test/ > __init__.py > other.py > > and I want to be able to say > > from contrib.test import something that statement would not be possible without adding contrib/__init__.py (I don't see that in your dir structure). Maybe that's all you need? separate but related: you probably want to avoid naming top level modules the same as stdlib modules. "test" believe it or not is a stdlib module. It should really be called "test_python" because that's what it does but that will never change. I've taken to naming my free-standing test module "tests" and I've noticed most other packages do this too. However, I usually prefer to make test a submodule. That is, myapp.test K > > Now __init__ fails to find test.other because that's contrib.test.other. > > Two natural solutions are: > 1) edit __init__.py and replace test.other with write > contrib.test.other. This is not acceptable for me since I do not want > to maintain the test module. > 2) add contrib to the path. This is also not acceptable because > creates countless problems with py2exe and py2app. I have many > modules and files with similar issues. > > Does anybody know of a third solution? > > Massimo > > P.S. No need to say this has something to do with www.web2py.com > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu Tue Jan 22 23:47:37 2008 From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:47:37 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] import question In-Reply-To: References: <38B90A37-4B8F-4B35-96A6-2534ED2F6F28@cs.depaul.edu> Message-ID: > that statement would not be possible without adding > contrib/__init__.py (I don't see that in your dir structure). Maybe > that's all you need? I have that. I just forgot to mention it. > separate but related: you probably want to avoid naming top level > modules the same as stdlib modules. "test" believe it or not is a > stdlib module. It should really be called "test_python" because > that's what it does but that will never change. I've taken to naming > my free-standing test module "tests" and I've noticed most other > packages do this too. However, I usually prefer to make test a > submodule. That is, myapp.test This is an example. The actual module is not called test. From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu Tue Jan 22 23:47:52 2008 From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:47:52 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] import question In-Reply-To: <276266d0801221436n15d67d68pad07a18e5ab1c323@mail.gmail.com> References: <38B90A37-4B8F-4B35-96A6-2534ED2F6F28@cs.depaul.edu> <276266d0801221436n15d67d68pad07a18e5ab1c323@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I will look into your module. Thanks On Jan 22, 2008, at 4:36 PM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote: > adding both contrib and test in your example to the path is indeed > bad since as far as Python is concerned contrib.test and test refer > to two separate modules. > > The __init__.py inside of the test package contains "from > test.other import something"? It can simply be > > from other import something > > which would bring something into test. This won't work in more > complicated situations like > > test/ > __init__.py > package1/ > __init__.py > mod1.py > package2/ > __init__.py > mod2.py > > If mod2.py from package2 needs to reference something from package1 > it had no choice traditionally but to refernece package1 as > test.package1 (which causes exactly the problems you describe). > This is the reason relative imports were added but it does require > patching the library in question. I don't think there is any way > around this other than: > > 1. put the test under an external directory that is added to the > path, not inside another package > 2. patch the library by either > a) using relative imports (breaks compatibility with 2.4 and > possibly 2.5) > b) refactor using a library like py-ioc (http://code.google.com/ > p/py-ioc/), a library that I wrote to solve similar problems > > - Cosmin > > On Jan 22, 2008 3:59 PM, Massimo Di Pierro > wrote: > Hello everybody, > > I was hoping you could help me. > > Say I have a module called test > > test/ > __init__.py > other.py > > and __init__.py says > > from test.other import something > > so that I can > > from test import something > > Now I do not want to install the module but I want to place it under > a folder called contrib: > > contrib/ > test/ > __init__.py > other.py > > and I want to be able to say > > from contrib.test import something > > Now __init__ fails to find test.other because that's > contrib.test.other. > > Two natural solutions are: > 1) edit __init__.py and replace test.other with write > contrib.test.other. This is not acceptable for me since I do not want > to maintain the test module. > 2) add contrib to the path. This is also not acceptable because > creates countless problems with py2exe and py2app. I have many > modules and files with similar issues. > > Does anybody know of a third solution? > > Massimo > > P.S. No need to say this has something to do with www.web2py.com > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > > > -- > Cosmin Stejerean > http://blog.offbytwo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080122/1c491d96/attachment.htm From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu Tue Jan 22 23:55:59 2008 From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:55:59 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] import question In-Reply-To: <200801221733.25572.pfein@pobox.com> References: <38B90A37-4B8F-4B35-96A6-2534ED2F6F28@cs.depaul.edu> <200801221733.25572.pfein@pobox.com> Message-ID: > This does not solve the problem because requires me to edit __init__.py Moreover other itself imports test.other2 which imports test.other3 etc. All files assume that that test is installed. Massimo > I'm presuming contrib is a package here, ie, that contrib/ > __init__.py exists. > That said, under Python 2.5+, in contrib/test/__init__.py you can > write: > > from .other import something > > That's a relative import, see http://docs.python.org/whatsnew/ > pep-328.html > > If you're targeting <2.5, you'll need to do one of the alternatives > you > suggested - (1) is clearly better, as you noted. > > -- > Peter Fein || 773-575-0694 || pfein at pobox.com > http://www.pobox.com/~pfein/ || PGP: 0xCCF6AE6B > irc: pfein at freenode.net || jabber: peter.fein at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com Wed Jan 23 03:29:46 2008 From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 20:29:46 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] import question In-Reply-To: References: <38B90A37-4B8F-4B35-96A6-2534ED2F6F28@cs.depaul.edu> <200801221733.25572.pfein@pobox.com> Message-ID: <3096c19d0801221829q23bda309g64604de728f356b1@mail.gmail.com> Hrm. On Jan 22, 2008 4:55 PM, Massimo Di Pierro wrote: > > This does not solve the problem It's possible that this is a problem that Python specifically doesn't solve? I really don't know for sure, but given the way Python loves namespaces, I'd assume that they're sacred enough to maybe not allow you to do something like this. I don't know for sure, but from a "Zen of Python" perspective, when I can't do something with Python it usually ends up that what I'm trying to do shouldn't be done. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, I'm just thinking this might fall into that category. Reading that relative import PEP, this looks like what you want...just in 2.5 (which a gajillion people have pointed out, I'm just pasting the exact part): """Additional leading periods perform the relative import starting from the parent of the current package. For example, code in the A.B.C module can do: from . import D # Imports A.B.D from .. import E # Imports A.E from ..F import G # Imports A.F.G""" You just have to know how deep you are, so if your 'contrib' module ends up being multiple deep, you're screwed. Which I think is what you were saying when you didn't want to edit the test.__init__.py. Anywho, it might just not be solvable. Chris From tim.saylor at gmail.com Wed Jan 23 05:50:17 2008 From: tim.saylor at gmail.com (Tim Saylor) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 22:50:17 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] tshirts? Message-ID: <9fb45b0b0801222050u4f3a5fcdu57013ec30252191@mail.gmail.com> If we had them custom printed somewhere it would probably be cheaper than cafepress. The only issue might be that this design looks like it has 8 different colors on it. I've ordered from http://brunettotshirts.com/prices.html before without a problem. -- Tim Saylor http://www.timsaylor.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080122/368efa41/attachment.htm From peter at pchristensen.com Wed Jan 23 09:42:34 2008 From: peter at pchristensen.com (Peter Christensen) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 02:42:34 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Writeup of 1/22 OLPC Chicago meeting Message-ID: I attended (and very much enjoyed) the meeting last night at Google. I did a writeup of the meeting on my website. Anyone is quote it or link to it to spread the word about the event. http://www.pchristensen.com/blog/articles/smart-kids-olpc-better-world/ -Peter -- ------------------------------------------------------ Peter Christensen http://www.pchristensen.com/ peter at pchristensen.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080123/ccf70d32/attachment.htm From maney at two14.net Wed Jan 23 15:42:00 2008 From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 08:42:00 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] import question In-Reply-To: References: <38B90A37-4B8F-4B35-96A6-2534ED2F6F28@cs.depaul.edu> <200801221733.25572.pfein@pobox.com> Message-ID: <20080123144200.GA12660@furrr.two14.net> On Tue, Jan 22, 2008 at 04:55:59PM -0600, Massimo Di Pierro wrote: > This does not solve the problem because requires me to edit __init__.py If that's the chief desiderata, then your solution is to alter sys.path in the code which imports test to make the existing imports in the test module work as-is. If you can live with having to edit them once, you can use relative imports (though that may need another edit down the road, when Python once again acquires an incompatible change without changing the major version number... that can be avoided if you don't care about breaking it for 2.4 right now). > Moreover other itself imports test.other2 which imports test.other3 etc. > All files assume that that test is installed. Lack of proper planning up front often leads to the need to make such changes. It's agile, baby! -- ...that obsessive conviction, so common among authors and composers, that all similarities between their works and any others which appear later must inevitably be ascribed to plagiarism. -- 2nd Circuit, 1945 From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu Wed Jan 23 16:25:11 2008 From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 09:25:11 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] import question In-Reply-To: <20080123144200.GA12660@furrr.two14.net> References: <38B90A37-4B8F-4B35-96A6-2534ED2F6F28@cs.depaul.edu> <200801221733.25572.pfein@pobox.com> <20080123144200.GA12660@furrr.two14.net> Message-ID: <44A814CD-860A-48DF-9442-D10B69E320D6@cs.depaul.edu> specifically I am trying to place the python-openid module into web2py.gluon.contrib folder. I submitted a ticket to the openid people. Worst case scenario I will edit all of their .py files and change the imports. There does not seem to be a better solution. Thank you all. Massimo On Jan 23, 2008, at 8:42 AM, Martin Maney wrote: > On Tue, Jan 22, 2008 at 04:55:59PM -0600, Massimo Di Pierro wrote: >> This does not solve the problem because requires me to edit >> __init__.py > > If that's the chief desiderata, then your solution is to alter > sys.path > in the code which imports test to make the existing imports in the > test > module work as-is. If you can live with having to edit them once, you > can use relative imports (though that may need another edit down the > road, when Python once again acquires an incompatible change without > changing the major version number... that can be avoided if you don't > care about breaking it for 2.4 right now). > >> Moreover other itself imports test.other2 which imports >> test.other3 etc. >> All files assume that that test is installed. > > Lack of proper planning up front often leads to the need to make such > changes. It's agile, baby! > > -- > ...that obsessive conviction, so common among authors and composers, > that all similarities between their works and any others which appear > later must inevitably be ascribed to plagiarism. -- 2nd Circuit, 1945 > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago From maney at two14.net Wed Jan 23 16:34:32 2008 From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 09:34:32 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] import question In-Reply-To: <44A814CD-860A-48DF-9442-D10B69E320D6@cs.depaul.edu> References: <38B90A37-4B8F-4B35-96A6-2534ED2F6F28@cs.depaul.edu> <200801221733.25572.pfein@pobox.com> <20080123144200.GA12660@furrr.two14.net> <44A814CD-860A-48DF-9442-D10B69E320D6@cs.depaul.edu> Message-ID: <20080123153432.GB12660@furrr.two14.net> On Wed, Jan 23, 2008 at 09:25:11AM -0600, Massimo Di Pierro wrote: > specifically I am trying to place the python-openid module > into web2py.gluon.contrib folder. I submitted a ticket to the openid The usual way of using standalone third party modules is to install them on the system in their own right - no wonder you're having difficulties with this. -- Graphic designers are not user interface designers. -- Philip Greenspun From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com Wed Jan 23 16:58:26 2008 From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 09:58:26 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] import question In-Reply-To: <44A814CD-860A-48DF-9442-D10B69E320D6@cs.depaul.edu> References: <38B90A37-4B8F-4B35-96A6-2534ED2F6F28@cs.depaul.edu> <200801221733.25572.pfein@pobox.com> <20080123144200.GA12660@furrr.two14.net> <44A814CD-860A-48DF-9442-D10B69E320D6@cs.depaul.edu> Message-ID: <3096c19d0801230758t6a751876o7c294d85da1e2164@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 23, 2008 9:25 AM, Massimo Di Pierro wrote: > specifically I am trying to place the python-openid module > into web2py.gluon.contrib folder. I submitted a ticket to the openid > people. Worst case scenario I will edit all of their .py files and > change the imports. The Django guys package up simplejson in the django distribution, I just checked, and they had to edit the imports in simplejson's __init__.py, """from django.utils.simplejson.decoder import JSONDecoder from django.utils.simplejson.encoder import JSONEncoder""" So, yeah, I think you have to edit the code a bit. Chris From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu Wed Jan 23 17:07:13 2008 From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 10:07:13 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] import question In-Reply-To: <20080123153432.GB12660@furrr.two14.net> References: <38B90A37-4B8F-4B35-96A6-2534ED2F6F28@cs.depaul.edu> <200801221733.25572.pfein@pobox.com> <20080123144200.GA12660@furrr.two14.net> <44A814CD-860A-48DF-9442-D10B69E320D6@cs.depaul.edu> <20080123153432.GB12660@furrr.two14.net> Message-ID: if I import it it works. But in web2py apps, ideally the individual applications should carry packages with themselves because they are not supposed to have dependencies. It is a long story. installing is what I do not want to do. Massimo On Jan 23, 2008, at 9:34 AM, Martin Maney wrote: > On Wed, Jan 23, 2008 at 09:25:11AM -0600, Massimo Di Pierro wrote: >> specifically I am trying to place the python-openid module >> into web2py.gluon.contrib folder. I submitted a ticket to the openid > > The usual way of using standalone third party modules is to install > them on the system in their own right - no wonder you're having > difficulties with this. > > -- > Graphic designers are not user interface designers. -- Philip > Greenspun > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com Wed Jan 23 18:10:42 2008 From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 11:10:42 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] import question In-Reply-To: References: <38B90A37-4B8F-4B35-96A6-2534ED2F6F28@cs.depaul.edu> <200801221733.25572.pfein@pobox.com> <20080123144200.GA12660@furrr.two14.net> <44A814CD-860A-48DF-9442-D10B69E320D6@cs.depaul.edu> <20080123153432.GB12660@furrr.two14.net> Message-ID: On Jan 23, 2008 10:07 AM, Massimo Di Pierro wrote: > if I import it it works. But in web2py apps, ideally the individual > applications should carry packages with themselves because they are > not supposed to have dependencies. It is a long story. > > installing is what I do not want to do. if you are trying to package 3rd party deps with an app, it is my humble opinion that you should alter sys.path instead of turning them into submodules. That is, mimic "installation." This will make future maintenance of updating the dependency *much* easier. I would propose a directory structure that mimics site-packages instead of a myapp.contrib approach. I think django can mostly get away with a contrib submodule because these are modules that were written to live specifically in django.contrib. What you are doing is different, you are distributing copies of modules that were written to be used as a global python modules. Here is a possible structure : frozen/ openid/ __init__.py simplejson/ __init__.py myapp/ __init__.py something __init__.py the tricky part is altering sys.path at the right time but if you already have a standalone app then there should be one point of entry into that app already. Call it run_my_app.py and have it look something like: #!/auto/generated/path/to/python import sys sys.path = [ '/auto/generated/path/to/frozen' ] + sys.path from myapp import main main() ... and an analogous test_my_app.py script as well. Then, anytime your app does "import simplejson" or "import openid" it will get the *frozen* version that you want to package with your app, not a global one from site-packages. You ever want to update simplejson? No problem! Just replace the one in frozen. This would be a more maintainable use of 3rd party python modules. Of course, the contrib submodule approach would work if *every* single 3rd party package supported relative imports. This will only happen when it is an acceptable time to drop 2.4 support, which is a long way off. Maybe our children will live through that era :) BTW ... I think bundling dependencies is a smart idea and I wish it were a bit easier to do in Python. Imagine a production server where you have 10 apps deployed and you want to upgrade a global package; this is a regression test nightmare that no matter how talented your QA team is will be very very hard to get right. At my company we have a tool that uses setuptools to make a local package of eggs per application but it's still a hack of sorts and is prone to breakage when setuptools changes. Of course, the industry standard solution to this (Amazon does this I believe) is to use vmware to create one single "OS" per application, for ultimate isolation. If you have that luxury then this is the way to go. Kumar From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu Wed Jan 23 18:34:32 2008 From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 11:34:32 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] import question In-Reply-To: References: <38B90A37-4B8F-4B35-96A6-2534ED2F6F28@cs.depaul.edu> <200801221733.25572.pfein@pobox.com> <20080123144200.GA12660@furrr.two14.net> <44A814CD-860A-48DF-9442-D10B69E320D6@cs.depaul.edu> <20080123153432.GB12660@furrr.two14.net> Message-ID: As I explained in the original post, editing sys.path that may create problems with py2exe and py2app. When people write code, they should not assume that their modules are going to be installed in site-packages or in a location in sys.path. Massimo On Jan 23, 2008, at 11:10 AM, Kumar McMillan wrote: > On Jan 23, 2008 10:07 AM, Massimo Di Pierro > wrote: >> if I import it it works. But in web2py apps, ideally the individual >> applications should carry packages with themselves because they are >> not supposed to have dependencies. It is a long story. >> >> installing is what I do not want to do. > > if you are trying to package 3rd party deps with an app, it is my > humble opinion that you should alter sys.path instead of turning them > into submodules. That is, mimic "installation." This will make > future maintenance of updating the dependency *much* easier. I would > propose a directory structure that mimics site-packages instead of a > myapp.contrib approach. I think django can mostly get away with a > contrib submodule because these are modules that were written to live > specifically in django.contrib. What you are doing is different, you > are distributing copies of modules that were written to be used as a > global python modules. Here is a possible structure : > > > frozen/ > openid/ > __init__.py > simplejson/ > __init__.py > myapp/ > __init__.py > something > __init__.py > > the tricky part is altering sys.path at the right time but if you > already have a standalone app then there should be one point of entry > into that app already. Call it run_my_app.py and have it look > something like: > > #!/auto/generated/path/to/python > > import sys > sys.path = [ > '/auto/generated/path/to/frozen' > ] + sys.path > from myapp import main > main() > > ... and an analogous test_my_app.py script as well. > > Then, anytime your app does "import simplejson" or "import openid" it > will get the *frozen* version that you want to package with your app, > not a global one from site-packages. You ever want to update > simplejson? No problem! Just replace the one in frozen. This would > be a more maintainable use of 3rd party python modules. Of course, > the contrib submodule approach would work if *every* single 3rd party > package supported relative imports. This will only happen when it is > an acceptable time to drop 2.4 support, which is a long way off. > Maybe our children will live through that era :) > > BTW ... I think bundling dependencies is a smart idea and I wish it > were a bit easier to do in Python. Imagine a production server where > you have 10 apps deployed and you want to upgrade a global package; > this is a regression test nightmare that no matter how talented your > QA team is will be very very hard to get right. At my company we have > a tool that uses setuptools to make a local package of eggs per > application but it's still a hack of sorts and is prone to breakage > when setuptools changes. > > Of course, the industry standard solution to this (Amazon does this I > believe) is to use vmware to create one single "OS" per application, > for ultimate isolation. If you have that luxury then this is the way > to go. > > Kumar > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago From pfein at pobox.com Wed Jan 23 18:37:23 2008 From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:37:23 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] import question In-Reply-To: References: <38B90A37-4B8F-4B35-96A6-2534ED2F6F28@cs.depaul.edu> Message-ID: <200801231237.23940.pfein@pobox.com> On Wednesday January 23 2008 12:10:42 pm Kumar McMillan wrote: > BTW ... I think bundling dependencies is a smart idea and I wish it > were a bit easier to do in Python. Imagine a production server where > you have 10 apps deployed and you want to upgrade a global package; > this is a regression test nightmare that no matter how talented your > QA team is will be very very hard to get right. At my company we have > a tool that uses setuptools to make a local package of eggs per > application but it's still a hack of sorts and is prone to breakage > when setuptools changes. I believe that's what Ian's workingenv.py/virtualenv.py are supposed to do. They seem to work well for a few people, and not for others. @work, we've generally found global upgrades to not be much of a problem. In a few rare instances we've wanted to continue to use a really old version of a package, we've imported the beastie into our subversion and set PYTHONPATH on a per-application basis in our shell wrapper scripts. > Of course, the industry standard solution to this (Amazon does this I > believe) is to use vmware to create one single "OS" per application, > for ultimate isolation. If you have that luxury then this is the way > to go. There are a lot of other nice benefits of doing so as well, it would seem... -- Peter Fein || 773-575-0694 || pfein at pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~pfein/ || PGP: 0xCCF6AE6B irc: pfein at freenode.net || jabber: peter.fein at gmail.com From pfein at pobox.com Wed Jan 23 18:48:49 2008 From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:48:49 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] import question In-Reply-To: References: <38B90A37-4B8F-4B35-96A6-2534ED2F6F28@cs.depaul.edu> Message-ID: <200801231248.49296.pfein@pobox.com> On Wednesday January 23 2008 12:34:32 pm Massimo Di Pierro wrote: > When people write code, they should not assume that their modules are > going to be installed in site-packages or in a location in sys.path. Umm, yes, they should. Prior to 2.5's relative imports, you didn't have a choice, and I don't think relative imports solve every situation. Perhaps *you* shouldn't assume you can just take someone's code and install it however you happen to feel like today and expect it to work. -- Peter Fein || 773-575-0694 || pfein at pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~pfein/ || PGP: 0xCCF6AE6B irc: pfein at freenode.net || jabber: peter.fein at gmail.com From tottinge at gmail.com Wed Jan 23 20:21:23 2008 From: tottinge at gmail.com (Tim Ottinger) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 13:21:23 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] import question In-Reply-To: <200801231248.49296.pfein@pobox.com> References: <38B90A37-4B8F-4B35-96A6-2534ED2F6F28@cs.depaul.edu> <200801231248.49296.pfein@pobox.com> Message-ID: <479793B3.1030906@gmail.com> Pete wrote: > On Wednesday January 23 2008 12:34:32 pm Massimo Di Pierro wrote: > >> When people write code, they should not assume that their modules are >> going to be installed in site-packages or in a location in sys.path. >> > > Umm, yes, they should. Prior to 2.5's relative imports, you didn't have a > choice, and I don't think relative imports solve every situation. > > Perhaps *you* shouldn't assume you can just take someone's code and install it > however you happen to feel like today and expect it to work. > Especially if you have some kind of package management like apt or YUM or the like. If you embed it, the users won't get upgrades. Better to have your package include a list of dependencies so the installer can take care of it. From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu Wed Jan 23 20:42:15 2008 From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 13:42:15 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] import question In-Reply-To: <479793B3.1030906@gmail.com> References: <38B90A37-4B8F-4B35-96A6-2534ED2F6F28@cs.depaul.edu> <200801231248.49296.pfein@pobox.com> <479793B3.1030906@gmail.com> Message-ID: <522026D8-4880-42DA-9043-E0309F6AB0AA@cs.depaul.edu> Sorry but I follow a different philosophy in web2py. While my users are free to run from source and install any module they want, I try to make it easier for them. They must be able to find a appliance they like from the appliances web site http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/appliances (source of bytecode compiled), click on it and have it running on their web2py installation. My users are not supposed to know anything about dependencies. Third party packages are either in the contrib folder (when the license permits it) which I maintain and gets updated every new web2py release, or in packaged in the appliances (again compatibly with licenses). The developers and the consumers of the appliances are free to upgrade those packages as they like but it their responsibility not to break them. I guarantee my users that web2py upgrades (and relative contrib modules upgrades) do not break appliances. Massimo On Jan 23, 2008, at 1:21 PM, Tim Ottinger wrote: > Pete wrote: >> On Wednesday January 23 2008 12:34:32 pm Massimo Di Pierro wrote: >> >>> When people write code, they should not assume that their modules >>> are >>> going to be installed in site-packages or in a location in sys.path. >>> >> >> Umm, yes, they should. Prior to 2.5's relative imports, you >> didn't have a >> choice, and I don't think relative imports solve every situation. >> >> Perhaps *you* shouldn't assume you can just take someone's code >> and install it >> however you happen to feel like today and expect it to work. >> > Especially if you have some kind of package management like apt > or YUM or the like. If you embed it, the users won't get upgrades. > Better to have your package include a list of dependencies so the > installer can take care of it. > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com Wed Jan 23 21:01:01 2008 From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 14:01:01 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] import question In-Reply-To: <522026D8-4880-42DA-9043-E0309F6AB0AA@cs.depaul.edu> References: <38B90A37-4B8F-4B35-96A6-2534ED2F6F28@cs.depaul.edu> <200801231248.49296.pfein@pobox.com> <479793B3.1030906@gmail.com> <522026D8-4880-42DA-9043-E0309F6AB0AA@cs.depaul.edu> Message-ID: On Jan 23, 2008 1:42 PM, Massimo Di Pierro wrote: > Sorry but I follow a different philosophy in web2py. > While my users are free to run from source and install any module > they want, I try to make it easier for them. why is this a "different" philosophy? We're just suggesting that your approach of transforming each 3rd party module into a submodule will create lots of tedious work since you will likely have to change import paths in multiple places, those places varying each time the package changes. If you were to bundle your dependencies in a way similar to how python allows one to install a dependency, your life might be a lot easier and your users' lives will not get any harder (this is all an implementation detail that they don't need to know about anyway). The 6th or so line on the py2exe FAQ is this: "After py2exe has done its magic, you should have a "dist" directory with all the files necessary to run your python script. No install necessary. Click and run. No DLL hell, nothing else to download." it goes on to say, one of the dist files is "library.zip," a standard zip file where all the pure source modules will be inserted. Is that not a place you can put 3rd party libs? If you are trying to get this working in py2exe only as an option then when not in py2exe you should be able to use a custom sys.path; I don't see why not. http://www.py2exe.org/index.cgi/FAQ > > They must be able to find a appliance they like from the appliances > web site http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/appliances (source of bytecode > compiled), click on it and have it running on their web2py installation. > > My users are not supposed to know anything about dependencies. > > Third party packages are either in the contrib folder (when the > license permits it) which I maintain and gets updated every new > web2py release, or in packaged in the appliances (again compatibly > with licenses). The developers and the consumers of the appliances > are free to upgrade those packages as they like but it their > responsibility not to break them. I guarantee my users that web2py > upgrades (and relative contrib modules upgrades) do not break > appliances. > > Massimo > > On Jan 23, 2008, at 1:21 PM, Tim Ottinger wrote: > > > Pete wrote: > >> On Wednesday January 23 2008 12:34:32 pm Massimo Di Pierro wrote: > >> > >>> When people write code, they should not assume that their modules > >>> are > >>> going to be installed in site-packages or in a location in sys.path. > >>> > >> > >> Umm, yes, they should. Prior to 2.5's relative imports, you > >> didn't have a > >> choice, and I don't think relative imports solve every situation. > >> > >> Perhaps *you* shouldn't assume you can just take someone's code > >> and install it > >> however you happen to feel like today and expect it to work. > >> > > Especially if you have some kind of package management like apt > > or YUM or the like. If you embed it, the users won't get upgrades. > > Better to have your package include a list of dependencies so the > > installer can take care of it. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago mailing list > > Chicago at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu Wed Jan 23 21:12:33 2008 From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 14:12:33 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] import question In-Reply-To: References: <38B90A37-4B8F-4B35-96A6-2534ED2F6F28@cs.depaul.edu> <200801231248.49296.pfein@pobox.com> <479793B3.1030906@gmail.com> <522026D8-4880-42DA-9043-E0309F6AB0AA@cs.depaul.edu> Message-ID: I am not convinced but perhaps we can join us and help us do it. I will look more in detal into the py2exe docs. thank you. Massimo On Jan 23, 2008, at 2:01 PM, Kumar McMillan wrote: > On Jan 23, 2008 1:42 PM, Massimo Di Pierro > wrote: >> Sorry but I follow a different philosophy in web2py. >> While my users are free to run from source and install any module >> they want, I try to make it easier for them. > > why is this a "different" philosophy? We're just suggesting that your > approach of transforming each 3rd party module into a submodule will > create lots of tedious work since you will likely have to change > import paths in multiple places, those places varying each time the > package changes. If you were to bundle your dependencies in a way > similar to how python allows one to install a dependency, your life > might be a lot easier and your users' lives will not get any harder > (this is all an implementation detail that they don't need to know > about anyway). > > The 6th or so line on the py2exe FAQ is this: > > "After py2exe has done its magic, you should have a "dist" directory > with all the files necessary to run your python script. No install > necessary. Click and run. No DLL hell, nothing else to download." > > it goes on to say, one of the dist files is "library.zip," a standard > zip file where all the pure source modules will be inserted. Is that > not a place you can put 3rd party libs? If you are trying to get this > working in py2exe only as an option then when not in py2exe you should > be able to use a custom sys.path; I don't see why not. > > http://www.py2exe.org/index.cgi/FAQ > > >> >> They must be able to find a appliance they like from the appliances >> web site http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/appliances (source of bytecode >> compiled), click on it and have it running on their web2py >> installation. >> >> My users are not supposed to know anything about dependencies. >> >> Third party packages are either in the contrib folder (when the >> license permits it) which I maintain and gets updated every new >> web2py release, or in packaged in the appliances (again compatibly >> with licenses). The developers and the consumers of the appliances >> are free to upgrade those packages as they like but it their >> responsibility not to break them. I guarantee my users that web2py >> upgrades (and relative contrib modules upgrades) do not break >> appliances. >> >> Massimo >> >> On Jan 23, 2008, at 1:21 PM, Tim Ottinger wrote: >> >>> Pete wrote: >>>> On Wednesday January 23 2008 12:34:32 pm Massimo Di Pierro wrote: >>>> >>>>> When people write code, they should not assume that their modules >>>>> are >>>>> going to be installed in site-packages or in a location in >>>>> sys.path. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Umm, yes, they should. Prior to 2.5's relative imports, you >>>> didn't have a >>>> choice, and I don't think relative imports solve every situation. >>>> >>>> Perhaps *you* shouldn't assume you can just take someone's code >>>> and install it >>>> however you happen to feel like today and expect it to work. >>>> >>> Especially if you have some kind of package management like apt >>> or YUM or the like. If you embed it, the users won't get upgrades. >>> Better to have your package include a list of dependencies so the >>> installer can take care of it. >> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Chicago mailing list >>> Chicago at python.org >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Chicago mailing list >> Chicago at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago >> > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago From catherine.devlin at gmail.com Wed Jan 23 21:27:47 2008 From: catherine.devlin at gmail.com (Catherine Devlin) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 15:27:47 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] local media Message-ID: <6523e39a0801231227x7d5c673blabe437219fd972f8@mail.gmail.com> Dear ChiPy folks, As your PyCon publicity coordinator, allow me to nag you once more for help with making Chicago's PyCon monumentally successful. I need your help in finding - Local and regional industry and business publications. Here in Dayton, we've got a monthly newsletter called "Technology First" that covers the local IT industry. If Dayton's got one, Chicago's GOT to have one. Please point me to it... or them! How about those artsy freebie magazines that you always pick up in coffeehouses? They may be interested in the "tie-dyed free-love open source movement conquers the world" angle of Python, and thus PyCon's presence as worthy news. Then we can suck some local artsy types into PyCon, and not have such a crummy time getting PyCon artwork made next year. :) So point me to those, as well. Where else? What am I missing, media-wise? (There will be a whole separate push to promote PyCon in the colleges, etc. nearby... I'll ask you about that shortly, too.) Finally - this is a biggie - if anybody has any *personal* contacts with anybody in one of those publications, or any other local media outlet (TV, Chicago Tribune, etc.), please let me know! -- - Catherine http://catherinedevlin.blogspot.com/ *** PyCon 2008 * Chicago * March 13-20 * us.pycon.org *** From skip at pobox.com Thu Jan 24 04:16:11 2008 From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 21:16:11 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] local media In-Reply-To: <6523e39a0801231227x7d5c673blabe437219fd972f8@mail.gmail.com> References: <6523e39a0801231227x7d5c673blabe437219fd972f8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <18328.763.123205.290407@montanaro.dyndns.org> Catherine> Where else? What am I missing, media-wise? (There will be a Catherine> whole separate push to promote PyCon in the colleges, Catherine> etc. nearby... I'll ask you about that shortly, too.) I would make sure Crain's Chicago Business gets copies of any press releases. Skip From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu Thu Jan 24 04:19:39 2008 From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 21:19:39 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] local media In-Reply-To: <18328.763.123205.290407@montanaro.dyndns.org> References: <6523e39a0801231227x7d5c673blabe437219fd972f8@mail.gmail.com> <18328.763.123205.290407@montanaro.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <079ED9EF-4313-433B-8431-FD124BA90976@cs.depaul.edu> Please send me any material you have and I will circulate it among my colleagues and students at DePaul. Massimo On Jan 23, 2008, at 9:16 PM, skip at pobox.com wrote: > > Catherine> Where else? What am I missing, media-wise? (There > will be a > Catherine> whole separate push to promote PyCon in the colleges, > Catherine> etc. nearby... I'll ask you about that shortly, too.) > > I would make sure Crain's Chicago Business gets copies of any press > releases. > > Skip > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago From bray at sent.com Thu Jan 24 04:47:35 2008 From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 21:47:35 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] local media In-Reply-To: <6523e39a0801231227x7d5c673blabe437219fd972f8@mail.gmail.com> References: <6523e39a0801231227x7d5c673blabe437219fd972f8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6CF334B3-67EF-477C-B519-66F96F650692@sent.com> On Jan 23, 2008, at 2:27 PM, Catherine Devlin wrote: > Finally - this is a biggie - if anybody has any *personal* contacts > with anybody in one of those publications, or any other local media > outlet (TV, Chicago Tribune, etc.), please let me know! Hello, I have been working with marketers in Chicago for a long time. Chicago is a busy city with lots of things going on--often times at the same time. You get accustom to having a menu of options of what you want to do every weekend. I appreciate your efforts in getting PyCon on everyone calender. It so happens, I will be meeting with the publisher of Chicago Scene http://chicago-scene.com/ on Friday afternoon. In regards to attracting the young hip scene to any event, he is the expert. I will ask his advice on PyCon. Also, I like to think I have done good things for publicizing ChiPy over the years. Although, as many of you know, I would love to pat myself on the back; however, I really had little to do with its growing success beyond getting the ChiPy name out to the right people. What I mean by the "right" people is mostly the open source, scientific, academics, financial sleuths, hackers, and collaborative "next-wave" technologists. In other words, its the linux user groups, the tech-social groups, Bar campers, schools, and the other similar language-oriented followings you should focus on. Encourage postings to these mailing lists, getting bloggers, and (most importantly) word of mouth, approaches. Most Python advocates will actively pursue information on PyCon. Lastly, there is an aspect of the publicity of Python game that consists of dragging oft-times shy, brilliant, yet guarded Python users out of the woodwork. And sometimes making PyCon appealing yet not to intimidating is also a key. Its important to stay true to the Pythonic way. If it were a different trade show for a different language I may encourage direct mail, ad placement in the Red-Eye and The Reader. and some other avenues. However, I am not sure these tactics will have the same calculated effect in this case. Good Luck, I will let you know what else I can find out. Brian Ray bray at sent.com http://kazavoo.com/blog From sirgnip at gmail.com Thu Jan 24 04:58:53 2008 From: sirgnip at gmail.com (Scott Nelson) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 21:58:53 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] local media In-Reply-To: <6523e39a0801231227x7d5c673blabe437219fd972f8@mail.gmail.com> References: <6523e39a0801231227x7d5c673blabe437219fd972f8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2682ac9b0801231958n29edaedbn8d455d960ee9a17a@mail.gmail.com> Here's my suggestions (some of which have already been mentioned) Crains Chicago Business, a highly respected Chicago business publication. http://www.chicagobusiness.com/ Midwest business news website site. Formerly ePrairie.com, I believe. http://MidwestBusiness.com The Chicago Reader is the free, artsy Chicago paper you find in coffeehouses, etc. A long legacy in Chicago. I think it might be more focused on the city, don't know if it goes into the 'burbs. http://www.chicagoreader.com/ RedEye is related to the Chicago Trib. It is a free daily newspaper. I see it in the city and surrounding area a lot. It attempts to be very young and urban. http://redeye.chicagotribune.com/ Sorry, no personal contacts at any of these. Its not a media outlet, but in addition to colleges, etc,. you might want to contact the IGDA-Chicago (Chicago chapter of the International Game Developers Association). I know some of the member companies use Python to help make video games. http://www.igda.org/chicago/ Good luck! -Scott On 1/23/08, Catherine Devlin wrote: > Dear ChiPy folks, > > As your PyCon publicity coordinator, allow me to nag you once more for > help with making Chicago's PyCon monumentally successful. I need your > help in finding - > > Local and regional industry and business publications. Here in > Dayton, we've got a monthly newsletter called "Technology First" that > covers the local IT industry. If Dayton's got one, Chicago's GOT to > have one. Please point me to it... or them! > > How about those artsy freebie magazines that you always pick up in > coffeehouses? They may be interested in the "tie-dyed free-love open > source movement conquers the world" angle of Python, and thus PyCon's > presence as worthy news. Then we can suck some local artsy types into > PyCon, and not have such a crummy time getting PyCon artwork made next > year. :) So point me to those, as well. > > Where else? What am I missing, media-wise? (There will be a whole > separate push to promote PyCon in the colleges, etc. nearby... I'll > ask you about that shortly, too.) > > Finally - this is a biggie - if anybody has any *personal* contacts > with anybody in one of those publications, or any other local media > outlet (TV, Chicago Tribune, etc.), please let me know! > > -- > - Catherine > http://catherinedevlin.blogspot.com/ > *** PyCon 2008 * Chicago * March 13-20 * us.pycon.org *** > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu Thu Jan 24 06:15:59 2008 From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 23:15:59 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] import question In-Reply-To: References: <38B90A37-4B8F-4B35-96A6-2534ED2F6F28@cs.depaul.edu> <200801231248.49296.pfein@pobox.com> <479793B3.1030906@gmail.com> <522026D8-4880-42DA-9043-E0309F6AB0AA@cs.depaul.edu> Message-ID: By the way i just posted www.web2py.com version 1.18 and I also posted the source on google code as many of you have suggested. http://web2py.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/ Massimo P.S. I have given up on the import issue in the short term. From jason at hostedlabs.com Thu Jan 24 06:11:40 2008 From: jason at hostedlabs.com (Jason Rexilius) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 23:11:40 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] local media In-Reply-To: <2682ac9b0801231958n29edaedbn8d455d960ee9a17a@mail.gmail.com> References: <6523e39a0801231227x7d5c673blabe437219fd972f8@mail.gmail.com> <2682ac9b0801231958n29edaedbn8d455d960ee9a17a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47981E0C.6080709@hostedlabs.com> I would also add Business Week - Chicago edition. I can make an intro to a journalist there. Scott Nelson wrote: > Here's my suggestions (some of which have already been mentioned) > > Crains Chicago Business, a highly respected Chicago business publication. > http://www.chicagobusiness.com/ > > Midwest business news website site. Formerly ePrairie.com, I believe. > http://MidwestBusiness.com > > The Chicago Reader is the free, artsy Chicago paper you find in > coffeehouses, etc. A long legacy in Chicago. I think it might be > more focused on the city, don't know if it goes into the 'burbs. > http://www.chicagoreader.com/ > > RedEye is related to the Chicago Trib. It is a free daily newspaper. > I see it in the city and surrounding area a lot. It attempts to be > very young and urban. > http://redeye.chicagotribune.com/ > > Sorry, no personal contacts at any of these. > > Its not a media outlet, but in addition to colleges, etc,. you might > want to contact the IGDA-Chicago (Chicago chapter of the International > Game Developers Association). I know some of the member companies use > Python to help make video games. > http://www.igda.org/chicago/ > > Good luck! > > -Scott > > On 1/23/08, Catherine Devlin wrote: >> Dear ChiPy folks, >> >> As your PyCon publicity coordinator, allow me to nag you once more for >> help with making Chicago's PyCon monumentally successful. I need your >> help in finding - >> >> Local and regional industry and business publications. Here in >> Dayton, we've got a monthly newsletter called "Technology First" that >> covers the local IT industry. If Dayton's got one, Chicago's GOT to >> have one. Please point me to it... or them! >> >> How about those artsy freebie magazines that you always pick up in >> coffeehouses? They may be interested in the "tie-dyed free-love open >> source movement conquers the world" angle of Python, and thus PyCon's >> presence as worthy news. Then we can suck some local artsy types into >> PyCon, and not have such a crummy time getting PyCon artwork made next >> year. :) So point me to those, as well. >> >> Where else? What am I missing, media-wise? (There will be a whole >> separate push to promote PyCon in the colleges, etc. nearby... I'll >> ask you about that shortly, too.) >> >> Finally - this is a biggie - if anybody has any *personal* contacts >> with anybody in one of those publications, or any other local media >> outlet (TV, Chicago Tribune, etc.), please let me know! >> >> -- >> - Catherine >> http://catherinedevlin.blogspot.com/ >> *** PyCon 2008 * Chicago * March 13-20 * us.pycon.org *** >> _______________________________________________ >> Chicago mailing list >> Chicago at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago >> > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago From maney at two14.net Thu Jan 24 14:44:43 2008 From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 07:44:43 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] import question In-Reply-To: References: <38B90A37-4B8F-4B35-96A6-2534ED2F6F28@cs.depaul.edu> <200801221733.25572.pfein@pobox.com> <20080123144200.GA12660@furrr.two14.net> <44A814CD-860A-48DF-9442-D10B69E320D6@cs.depaul.edu> <20080123153432.GB12660@furrr.two14.net> Message-ID: <20080124134443.GB15648@furrr.two14.net> On Wed, Jan 23, 2008 at 10:07:13AM -0600, Massimo Di Pierro wrote: > if I import it it works. But in web2py apps, ideally the individual > applications should carry packages with themselves because they are > not supposed to have dependencies. It is a long story. Oh sure, it has roots going back to the original invention of shared libraries. :-) > installing is what I do not want to do. Well, there's installing them normally, editing them to work in the non-pathed location you want to put them, or altering the path at runtime. So far you've categorically said the first two are what you don't want to do, so I guess we know how this is going to turn out. -- The most effective way to get information from usenet is not to ask a question; it is to post incorrect information. -- Aahz's Law From maney at two14.net Thu Jan 24 15:15:39 2008 From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 08:15:39 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] import question In-Reply-To: References: <38B90A37-4B8F-4B35-96A6-2534ED2F6F28@cs.depaul.edu> <200801221733.25572.pfein@pobox.com> <20080123144200.GA12660@furrr.two14.net> <44A814CD-860A-48DF-9442-D10B69E320D6@cs.depaul.edu> <20080123153432.GB12660@furrr.two14.net> Message-ID: <20080124141539.GC15648@furrr.two14.net> On Wed, Jan 23, 2008 at 11:34:32AM -0600, Massimo Di Pierro wrote: > As I explained in the original post, editing sys.path that may create > problems with py2exe and py2app. Yeah, I remembered that right after my previous reply had gone out. I'd dismiss this as "so much the worse for py2exe and py2app", but it would likely also cause problems (or at least confusion) if two web2py apps both needed to include the same module - assuming web2py apps are sub-site things that can be combined to construct an entire site, as in Django's terminology. This aspect of it, too, has roots in much earlier shared library usage... > When people write code, they should not assume that their modules are > going to be installed in site-packages or in a location in sys.path. That is, however, the prevailing standard. Like a prevailing wind, you can try to piss into it or... not. -- Code can be its own documentation. It's generally pretty lousy doucmentation, but in many cases that's no worse than what you'd get in other forms. Alas. From pfein at pobox.com Thu Jan 24 16:40:17 2008 From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 10:40:17 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] import question In-Reply-To: References: <38B90A37-4B8F-4B35-96A6-2534ED2F6F28@cs.depaul.edu> Message-ID: <200801241040.18073.pfein@pobox.com> On Wednesday January 23 2008 12:10:42 pm Kumar McMillan wrote: > Of course, the industry standard solution to this (Amazon does this I > believe) is to use vmware to create one single "OS" per application, > for ultimate isolation. If you have that luxury then this is the way > to go. To take this argument a bit further, this is arguably the *only* way to package python applications so that they're "safe" from upgrades. Remember, a python application depends on a lot more than a bunch of site-packages. I count at least 27 .so's linked to by a standard python install. Just sayin'... Personally, I find the OMG! upgrades! attitude a bit overblown, but then again I don't have to deal with supporting customers... It's also a good recipe for unfixed security holes. -- Peter Fein || 773-575-0694 || pfein at pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~pfein/ || PGP: 0xCCF6AE6B irc: pfein at freenode.net || jabber: peter.fein at gmail.com From shekay at pobox.com Thu Jan 24 17:22:48 2008 From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 10:22:48 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] requirements tracking in python Message-ID: Does anyone here know of a tool in python for handling requirements tracking? (I have deja vu, have I already asked this?) I think django would be a good fit, you could end up with a view for the requirements doc, and views for traceability reports (and so on and so forth, want to hear me babble ideas? scm integration would be really cool link data to the src code? tie in comment tags (in whatever language you are documenting)) At work I am driven crazy by the mish-mash of ways people pass on requirements to me. I end up making charts on the wiki from their requirements to my srs to my model -- this does not scale! no, this is not overkill, yes it helps -- do you want a team to get to the integration phase of a project only to find that they forgot to implement a requirement?! arg. -- sheila From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com Thu Jan 24 17:32:10 2008 From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 10:32:10 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] requirements tracking in python In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <905E0F55-BE16-4037-B414-F544FE4D31C2@gmail.com> Trac is pretty great. You can get creative with tickets. In general though, it sounds like your whole crew needs to evaluate your development methodologies...figure out what works, and stick with it. That usually requires a bunch of buy in from a bunch of people who don't like to buy in, but if you get it all lined up, it might make things easier than finding a magical software package that fixes everything. Look into "Scrum." Chris On Jan 24, 2008, at 10:22 AM, sheila miguez wrote: > Does anyone here know of a tool in python for handling requirements > tracking? > > (I have deja vu, have I already asked this?) > > I think django would be a good fit, you could end up with a view for > the requirements doc, and views for traceability reports (and so on > and so forth, want to hear me babble ideas? scm integration would be > really cool link data to the src code? tie in comment tags (in > whatever language you are documenting)) > > At work I am driven crazy by the mish-mash of ways people pass on > requirements to me. I end up making charts on the wiki from their > requirements to my srs to my model -- this does not scale! > > no, this is not overkill, yes it helps -- do you want a team to get to > the integration phase of a project only to find that they forgot to > implement a requirement?! > > arg. > > > > > -- > sheila > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago From shekay at pobox.com Thu Jan 24 17:56:33 2008 From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 10:56:33 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] requirements tracking in python In-Reply-To: <905E0F55-BE16-4037-B414-F544FE4D31C2@gmail.com> References: <905E0F55-BE16-4037-B414-F544FE4D31C2@gmail.com> Message-ID: I've worked in environments running the gamut from SEI certified to wildcat startup and can talk scrum and all that over beer if you like, but that's not what I want right now... I want pragmatic ways to let people track the flow from business requirements to implementation (to test would be nice, but just to implementation is fine for now). constraining requirements to be entered into some database (but then having a presentation that looks like a document) would prevent the word/excel/email zaniness delivered to me and would allow me to frob things better to spit out stuff I can point to. "Stop wasting my time," I could think. "Here, read this section a subsection b stroke 36 it answers your question exactly," I could say. It is not a waste of time yak shaving with a magical software package, I've used something before, and it helped. It wasn't magic. I have nothing like that available to me now. On Jan 24, 2008 10:32 AM, Chris McAvoy wrote: > Trac is pretty great. You can get creative with tickets. In general > though, it sounds like your whole crew needs to evaluate your > development methodologies...figure out what works, and stick with > it. That usually requires a bunch of buy in from a bunch of people > who don't like to buy in, but if you get it all lined up, it might > make things easier than finding a magical software package that fixes > everything. > > Look into "Scrum." > > Chris > > > On Jan 24, 2008, at 10:22 AM, sheila miguez wrote: > > > Does anyone here know of a tool in python for handling requirements > > tracking? > > > > (I have deja vu, have I already asked this?) > > > > I think django would be a good fit, you could end up with a view for > > the requirements doc, and views for traceability reports (and so on > > and so forth, want to hear me babble ideas? scm integration would be > > really cool link data to the src code? tie in comment tags (in > > whatever language you are documenting)) > > > > At work I am driven crazy by the mish-mash of ways people pass on > > requirements to me. I end up making charts on the wiki from their > > requirements to my srs to my model -- this does not scale! > > > > no, this is not overkill, yes it helps -- do you want a team to get to > > the integration phase of a project only to find that they forgot to > > implement a requirement?! > > > > arg. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > sheila > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago mailing list > > Chicago at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > -- sheila From pfein at pobox.com Thu Jan 24 18:08:50 2008 From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 12:08:50 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] requirements tracking in python In-Reply-To: <905E0F55-BE16-4037-B414-F544FE4D31C2@gmail.com> References: <905E0F55-BE16-4037-B414-F544FE4D31C2@gmail.com> Message-ID: <200801241208.51016.pfein@pobox.com> On Thursday January 24 2008 11:32:10 am Chris McAvoy wrote: > Trac is pretty great. You can get creative with tickets. In general > though, it sounds like your whole crew needs to evaluate your > development methodologies...figure out what works, and stick with > it. That usually requires a bunch of buy in from a bunch of people > who don't like to buy in, but if you get it all lined up, it might > make things easier than finding a magical software package that fixes > everything. Lemme 2nd trac... we use it for basically everything. I think we average around a 1000 tickets per year. For a ~5 person company. Since we don't have a physical office, our requirements/design discussions happen on the tickets (though we do discuss on IM sometimes & summarize on the ticket). It's nice having the entire context of a SVN change is in one place. Though sometimes finding what you're looking for is a little hard, and it's no substitute for the high-level overview wiki documentation gives. Though as Chris mentions, this is kinda getting more into methodology than tools. On that note, do people really work off pre-defined specs? We find that we start out with a rough idea of what we're trying to do and refine the *idea* as we implement. In software, I find it's hard to know what you want until you're halfway there. IMO, that's little-a agile. Again, it's a culture thing. Though one of my coworkers used to print out circuit diagrams on a large format printer and hang them on the wall for the benefit of the managers at his previous job. YMMV. -- Peter Fein || 773-575-0694 || pfein at pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~pfein/ || PGP: 0xCCF6AE6B irc: pfein at freenode.net || jabber: peter.fein at gmail.com From carl at personnelware.com Thu Jan 24 18:14:39 2008 From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 11:14:39 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] requirements tracking in python In-Reply-To: References: <905E0F55-BE16-4037-B414-F544FE4D31C2@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4798C77F.6020709@personnelware.com> how far of is this: enter requirements (business, technical, whatever) into trac. "deliver" would be the first one, and then a bunch of slightly more detailed would block that. each of those could be blocked by further refinements. eventually you get granular enough to have something that can be coded which satisfies a leaf on the dependency tree. I think it is missing something, but it sounds pretty close to what you are asking. Carl K sheila miguez wrote: > I've worked in environments running the gamut from SEI certified to > wildcat startup and can talk scrum and all that over beer if you like, > but that's not what I want right now... > > I want pragmatic ways to let people track the flow from business > requirements to implementation (to test would be nice, but just to > implementation is fine for now). constraining requirements to be > entered into some database (but then having a presentation that looks > like a document) would prevent the word/excel/email zaniness delivered > to me and would allow me to frob things better to spit out stuff I can > point to. > > "Stop wasting my time," I could think. "Here, read this section a > subsection b stroke 36 it answers your question exactly," I could say. > > It is not a waste of time yak shaving with a magical software package, > I've used something before, and it helped. It wasn't magic. I have > nothing like that available to me now. > > > On Jan 24, 2008 10:32 AM, Chris McAvoy wrote: >> Trac is pretty great. You can get creative with tickets. In general >> though, it sounds like your whole crew needs to evaluate your >> development methodologies...figure out what works, and stick with >> it. That usually requires a bunch of buy in from a bunch of people >> who don't like to buy in, but if you get it all lined up, it might >> make things easier than finding a magical software package that fixes >> everything. >> >> Look into "Scrum." >> >> Chris >> >> >> On Jan 24, 2008, at 10:22 AM, sheila miguez wrote: >> >>> Does anyone here know of a tool in python for handling requirements >>> tracking? >>> >>> (I have deja vu, have I already asked this?) >>> >>> I think django would be a good fit, you could end up with a view for >>> the requirements doc, and views for traceability reports (and so on >>> and so forth, want to hear me babble ideas? scm integration would be >>> really cool link data to the src code? tie in comment tags (in >>> whatever language you are documenting)) >>> >>> At work I am driven crazy by the mish-mash of ways people pass on >>> requirements to me. I end up making charts on the wiki from their >>> requirements to my srs to my model -- this does not scale! >>> >>> no, this is not overkill, yes it helps -- do you want a team to get to >>> the integration phase of a project only to find that they forgot to >>> implement a requirement?! >>> >>> arg. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> sheila >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Chicago mailing list >>> Chicago at python.org >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago >> _______________________________________________ >> Chicago mailing list >> Chicago at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago >> > > > From shekay at pobox.com Thu Jan 24 21:22:13 2008 From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 14:22:13 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] requirements tracking in python In-Reply-To: <200801241208.51016.pfein@pobox.com> References: <905E0F55-BE16-4037-B414-F544FE4D31C2@gmail.com> <200801241208.51016.pfein@pobox.com> Message-ID: On Jan 24, 2008 11:08 AM, Pete wrote: > Though as Chris mentions, this is kinda getting more into methodology than > tools. Sorry about that. I was hoping for someone to say, oh yeah, check out srsly, a requirement tracking django project. it has everything you need including email and eliza. Sort of like learning about reviewboard. > > On that note, do people really work off pre-defined specs? We find that we > start out with a rough idea of what we're trying to do and refine the *idea* > as we implement. In software, I find it's hard to know what you want until > you're halfway there. IMO, that's little-a agile. Depends. If you need to drop IDEA into a system that follows the APCO OTAR protocol? hells yess. and if you have to have someone from the government come over to review your code anytime you make a change? heavens to betsyes. If you need to do something at a 1000 company, maybe yes, maybe no. 10 people, not so much. -- sheila From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com Thu Jan 24 23:05:18 2008 From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 16:05:18 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] requirements tracking in python In-Reply-To: <200801241208.51016.pfein@pobox.com> References: <905E0F55-BE16-4037-B414-F544FE4D31C2@gmail.com> <200801241208.51016.pfein@pobox.com> Message-ID: On Jan 24, 2008 11:08 AM, Pete wrote: > Again, it's a culture thing. Though one of my coworkers used to print out > circuit diagrams on a large format printer and hang them on the wall for the > benefit of the managers at his previous job. YMMV. ya, culture matters. Here, we combine Trac and the hallway, where there are lines of masking tape with headings like "in progress," "completed," and "verified," and 3x5 index cards stuck on the wall mirroring the tasks we have in Trac. At first I thought this was ludicrous, maintaining tasks in two places?? But actually it's great. 1) Business people can't use Trac, nor any website for they are computer-challenged (yes this is sad) and 2) when you finish a task you can move your index card from one section to another -- this is surprisingly uplifting (yes this also is sad). The reason it works is that project managers keep index cards in sync with Trac, I don't know how they do it. If you have clever people like that who are willing to do the maintainance, this method helps the entire business keep up to date with its projects. From szybalski at gmail.com Fri Jan 25 16:46:57 2008 From: szybalski at gmail.com (Lukasz Szybalski) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 09:46:57 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Fwd: [UIC-LUG] Flourish! 2008 conference at UIC - April 4 and 5 In-Reply-To: <3d76512f0801250728t3a4fdbc9v1416b11d3cabd2c2@mail.gmail.com> References: <3d76512f0801250728t3a4fdbc9v1416b11d3cabd2c2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <804e5c70801250746p6e939f4j9032e825f09050b7@mail.gmail.com> FYI. Maybe some Chicago based project want to get invlolved. Lucas ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Roberto Serrano Date: Jan 25, 2008 9:28 AM Subject: [UIC-LUG] Flourish! 2008 conference at UIC - April 4 and 5 To: LUG at listserv.uic.edu Good morning! The LUG at UIC just finished releasing the new website for this year's conference: http://www.flourishconf.com/ In there you will find regular updates on everything Flourish! In this coming month, we are actively seeking collaborations with companies, organizations, and community projects that might have an interest in participating and contributing with Flourish! Please, feel free to contact us if you have any suggestions, comments, or leads on people that might be interested in helping, sponsoring, or participating. For those interested in attending, we are planning to open registration sometime next month. We'll keep you posted! Thank you! Roberto C. Serrano LUG at UIC vice president -- -- TurboGears from start to finish: http://www.lucasmanual.com/mywiki/TurboGears From shekay at pobox.com Fri Jan 25 17:32:09 2008 From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 10:32:09 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] The linguistic command line Message-ID: http://interactions.acm.org/content/?p=35 Latest has an article on humane interfaces. Relevant to use via the very small degree of separation from our group to the author. -- sheila From maney at two14.net Sat Jan 26 14:42:46 2008 From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 07:42:46 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] Fwd: [UIC-LUG] Flourish! 2008 conference at UIC - April 4 and 5 In-Reply-To: <804e5c70801250746p6e939f4j9032e825f09050b7@mail.gmail.com> References: <3d76512f0801250728t3a4fdbc9v1416b11d3cabd2c2@mail.gmail.com> <804e5c70801250746p6e939f4j9032e825f09050b7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080126134246.GA20606@furrr.two14.net> On Fri, Jan 25, 2008 at 09:46:57AM -0600, Lukasz Szybalski wrote: > FYI. > Maybe some Chicago based project want to get invlolved. Which reminds me that some of the folks behind Flourish were talking about having something like a bake-off if they could get participants from Django, Rails, PHP (?), ... communities. Or did I in fact pass that along here back when it was fresh in my mind and have forgotten I did so? MLAS... -- Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I'll use regular expressions." Now they have two problems -- Jamie Zawinski From Tim.Norman at dreamworks.com Wed Jan 30 20:24:11 2008 From: Tim.Norman at dreamworks.com (Norman, Tim) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 11:24:11 -0800 Subject: [Chicago] Dreamworks Animation Opportunity-Pipeline Engineer Message-ID: <57E24B0263A3594EB66EEABC419CA407152FA4C3FD@EXCLUSGLD1.win.dreamworks.com> Production or Pipeline (Python) Engineer-Maya or Houdini The Production Engineering group designs, implements, and maintains software that "glues" together the software and data used in the creation of animated feature films. Production engineers understand the entire computer animation process and use that knowledge to develop the DreamWorks global animation pipeline. We are seeking a highly motivated person with experience in both software development and in computer animation production. As a production engineer, you will: * Maintain the existing software systems used in the production of our films * Enhance, modify, and redesign the systems to accommodate the ever-changing requirements of production * Interact with animators and technical directors to solve technical production issues * Use your understanding of computer animation to come up with creative solutions to difficult technical problems Your software development experience must include: * Large software systems * Extensive scripting in Python or Perl (preferably both) * Object oriented C++ experience * UNIX/Linux development Additionally, you must have: * Excellent problem solving and customer service skills * Outstanding attention to detail and following through on tasks * Ability to handle a variety of tasks and personality types * Strong verbal and written communication skills * Enthusiasm for computer animation and/or CG in films We also prefer: * Experience in the computer animation industry * Knowledge of CG software such as Maya, Houdini, or Shake * Shell scripting (csh, tcsh, sh) ability * Knowledge of relational database concepts * System administration skills You must have achieved at least a bachelors degree in computer science. A masters is preferred. Tim Norman Dreamworks Animation Ph 818. 695. 7801 Fax 818. 695. 6210 www.dreamworksanimation.com [http://www.dreamworksanimation.com/interact/signatures/shrek_puss1.gif] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080130/1939f158/attachment.htm From catherine.devlin at gmail.com Wed Jan 30 21:44:56 2008 From: catherine.devlin at gmail.com (Catherine Devlin) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 15:44:56 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Publicizing PyCon kit available Message-ID: <6523e39a0801301244r46aac11ndf282fa0b677683d@mail.gmail.com> Hi, Chicago folks! Hopefully this email is a redundant nuisance, because hopefully you read the PyCon blog ( http://pycon.blogspot.com/ ) religiously. However, just in case... The "Publicizing PyCon" kit has been posted! It's time to let people know about PyCon! PyCon has always relied on the community to get the word out. This year, we've put together a "Publicizing PyCon" page under the "Helping Out" section of the PyCon website, at http://us.pycon.org/2008/helping/publicize/ It includes * Blog badges * Sample announcement emails * A poster/flyer to print out * A slide to drop into live presentations Now is the perfect time to spread the word - registration is open, and early-bird rates are available through Feb. 20. Thanks for your help! -- - Catherine http://catherinedevlin.blogspot.com/ *** PyCon 2008 * Chicago * March 13-20 * us.pycon.org *** From shekay at pobox.com Wed Jan 30 22:43:50 2008 From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 15:43:50 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] February meeting date/location? In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0801200604g7fdb48c2o89876a2861e8bfb5@mail.gmail.com> References: <18322.3998.680795.600012@montanaro.dyndns.org> <3096c19d0801200604g7fdb48c2o89876a2861e8bfb5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, any update? On Jan 20, 2008 8:04 AM, Chris McAvoy wrote: > This is a good idea...I'll see what we can whip up. > > Chris > > > On Jan 19, 2008 8:56 AM, wrote: > > When and where will the February meeting be held? Given that it will be the > > last meeting between PyCon I was thinking maybe we should check with the > > PyCon folks to see if there's any recon we can do. Maybe we could convince > > the conference hotel to let us use a room? I'm hoping to actually make it > > to the meeting this time given the almost-PyCon timing and the likelihood of > > PyCon at least being part of the agenda. > > > > Skip > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago mailing list > > Chicago at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > -- sheila From carl at personnelware.com Wed Jan 30 23:44:36 2008 From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 16:44:36 -0600 Subject: [Chicago] February meeting date/location? In-Reply-To: References: <18322.3998.680795.600012@montanaro.dyndns.org> <3096c19d0801200604g7fdb48c2o89876a2861e8bfb5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47A0FDD4.6040907@personnelware.com> Waiting on Crown... > I just sent an email reminder about 2/14. ^C sheila miguez wrote: > Hi, any update? > > On Jan 20, 2008 8:04 AM, Chris McAvoy wrote: >> This is a good idea...I'll see what we can whip up. >> >> Chris >> >> >> On Jan 19, 2008 8:56 AM, wrote: >>> When and where will the February meeting be held? Given that it will be the >>> last meeting between PyCon I was thinking maybe we should check with the >>> PyCon folks to see if there's any recon we can do. Maybe we could convince >>> the conference hotel to let us use a room? I'm hoping to actually make it >>> to the meeting this time given the almost-PyCon timing and the likelihood of >>> PyCon at least being part of the agenda. >>> >>> Skip >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Chicago mailing list >>> Chicago at python.org >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Chicago mailing list >> Chicago at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago >> > > >