From szybalski at gmail.com  Fri Feb  1 17:26:58 2008
From: szybalski at gmail.com (Lukasz Szybalski)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 10:26:58 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] create all classes
Message-ID: <804e5c70802010826ibaa8a4j28ab5a22eb269916@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,
I just converted big txt file definition to classes in .py file.

There are around 30 classes in the file. How can I iterate through
that file and initiate each class to some object in a list?

---blocks.py

class MSG_CTRL_BLK(object):
    def __init__(self):
        self.block='025A'
        self.GMSLOC=Element(self.block,'GLOC','MESSAGE HEADER','AN',26, 1)

so instead of typing :
a=MSG_CTRL_BLK()
....
...
30 times
....

I want:
Outside of the file I would like to :
import blocks
myblocks=[]
for i in blocks.xx???Xx:
    myblocks.append( i() )

what would be the function to get me list of classes?
How can I iterate and create them on a fly.

Lucas

From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com  Fri Feb  1 17:32:28 2008
From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 10:32:28 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] create all classes
In-Reply-To: <804e5c70802010826ibaa8a4j28ab5a22eb269916@mail.gmail.com>
References: <804e5c70802010826ibaa8a4j28ab5a22eb269916@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b571660a0802010832l387b5c85xd6eb9e1c25369f64@mail.gmail.com>

you want

import blocks, types
for name in dir(blocks):
    TheClass = getattr(blocks, name)
    if not type(TheClass)==types.ClassType:
        continue
    c = TheClass()

you might also need weed out any classes that are not the ones you are
trying to instantiate

On Feb 1, 2008 10:26 AM, Lukasz Szybalski <szybalski at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
> I just converted big txt file definition to classes in .py file.
>
> There are around 30 classes in the file. How can I iterate through
> that file and initiate each class to some object in a list?
>
> ---blocks.py
>
> class MSG_CTRL_BLK(object):
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.block='025A'
>         self.GMSLOC=Element(self.block,'GLOC','MESSAGE HEADER','AN',26, 1)
>
> so instead of typing :
> a=MSG_CTRL_BLK()
> ....
> ...
> 30 times
> ....
>
> I want:
> Outside of the file I would like to :
> import blocks
> myblocks=[]
> for i in blocks.xx???Xx:
>     myblocks.append( i() )
>
> what would be the function to get me list of classes?
> How can I iterate and create them on a fly.
>
> Lucas
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From shekay at pobox.com  Fri Feb  1 17:48:47 2008
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 10:48:47 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Talk proposal for Feb: mapping
In-Reply-To: <8c58fcec0801191844i7be32c52s6c42124447308167@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8c58fcec0801191844i7be32c52s6c42124447308167@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a68ced640802010848u1f89fde5h8ab4733ce6373f76@mail.gmail.com>

On Jan 19, 2008 8:44 PM, Paul Smith <paulsmith at pobox.com> wrote:

> If there's any interest in this topic, I'd like to give a quick
> tutorial in setting up a mapping solution from scratch with Mapnik,
> Django, and OpenLayers.
>
> Looking forward to the meeting and to PyCon,

I am psyched about this meeting and I was wondering if anyone from
Navteq is in our group. If not, does anyone know if they use python?
We should see if they do and then invite the pythonistas over. (Or
maybe get them to invite us over).

-- 
sheila

From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com  Fri Feb  1 18:06:33 2008
From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 11:06:33 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] create all classes
In-Reply-To: <b571660a0802010832l387b5c85xd6eb9e1c25369f64@mail.gmail.com>
References: <804e5c70802010826ibaa8a4j28ab5a22eb269916@mail.gmail.com>
	<b571660a0802010832l387b5c85xd6eb9e1c25369f64@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b571660a0802010906l1476fffao956bb510ce4c483e@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 1, 2008 10:32 AM, Kumar McMillan <kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com> wrote:
> you want
>
> import blocks, types
> for name in dir(blocks):
>     TheClass = getattr(blocks, name)
>     if not type(TheClass)==types.ClassType:
>         continue
>     c = TheClass()

mm, coffee, much better.

I meant:

if not type(TheClass)==type:
    continue

(to detect new-style classes) but you're probably better off giving
all your 30 classes a common base class, i.e. MessageControl, and
checking like this:

if not type(TheClass)==type:
    continue
if not issubclass(TheClass, MessageControl):
    continue
c = TheClass()
# more stuff

>
> you might also need weed out any classes that are not the ones you are
> trying to instantiate
>
>
> On Feb 1, 2008 10:26 AM, Lukasz Szybalski <szybalski at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hello,
> > I just converted big txt file definition to classes in .py file.
> >
> > There are around 30 classes in the file. How can I iterate through
> > that file and initiate each class to some object in a list?
> >
> > ---blocks.py
> >
> > class MSG_CTRL_BLK(object):
> >     def __init__(self):
> >         self.block='025A'
> >         self.GMSLOC=Element(self.block,'GLOC','MESSAGE HEADER','AN',26, 1)
> >
> > so instead of typing :
> > a=MSG_CTRL_BLK()
> > ....
> > ...
> > 30 times
> > ....
> >
> > I want:
> > Outside of the file I would like to :
> > import blocks
> > myblocks=[]
> > for i in blocks.xx???Xx:
> >     myblocks.append( i() )
> >
> > what would be the function to get me list of classes?
> > How can I iterate and create them on a fly.
> >
> > Lucas
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
>

From carl at personnelware.com  Fri Feb  1 19:17:01 2008
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 12:17:01 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] XO for recording PyCon
Message-ID: <47A3621D.7060406@personnelware.com>

I am trying to arrange to record all 108 hours of PyCon audio and video. 
assuming I get the desired VGA capture device, I need a box with USB 2 and audio 
in.  I can provide an external HD.

Is there any reason the XO would not work for this?

What do I need to do to get my hands on one in the next week? (like by Feb 7 so 
I can get it all working by Feb 14 ChiPy meeting. ) and then if it works, can I 
get 4 more to use at PyCon?

It isn't the intended use, and I can understand if that causes this plan to be 
nixed.

Having the web cam and built in mic would be handy too, assuming I can get it 
somewhat pointed at the stage, and get even a hint of what is coming from the 
house speakers (even if the quality is poor, it will help sync with other 
streams in post production editing.)

Carl K


From ken at stox.org  Fri Feb  1 19:32:48 2008
From: ken at stox.org (Kenneth P. Stox)
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 12:32:48 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] XO for recording PyCon
In-Reply-To: <47A3621D.7060406@personnelware.com>
References: <47A3621D.7060406@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <1201890768.9134.13.camel@stox.dyndns.org>


On Fri, 2008-02-01 at 12:17 -0600, Carl Karsten wrote:
> 
> Is there any reason the XO would not work for this?

I don't think so. Not enough CPU to generate MPEG's in real time, a
little tight on memory also. Unless you are planning on streaming in
real time, a quality camcorder will do a much better job. Especially the
optics, webcams image quality is terrible when compared to a real
camera.


From szybalski at gmail.com  Fri Feb  1 19:35:48 2008
From: szybalski at gmail.com (Lukasz Szybalski)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 12:35:48 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] create all classes
In-Reply-To: <b571660a0802010906l1476fffao956bb510ce4c483e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <804e5c70802010826ibaa8a4j28ab5a22eb269916@mail.gmail.com>
	<b571660a0802010832l387b5c85xd6eb9e1c25369f64@mail.gmail.com>
	<b571660a0802010906l1476fffao956bb510ce4c483e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <804e5c70802011035y363243c8ra78fb335bbc11c3b@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 1, 2008 11:06 AM, Kumar McMillan <kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 1, 2008 10:32 AM, Kumar McMillan <kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com> wrote:
> > you want
> >
> > import blocks, types
> > for name in dir(blocks):
> >     TheClass = getattr(blocks, name)
> >     if not type(TheClass)==types.ClassType:
> >         continue
> >     c = TheClass()
>
> mm, coffee, much better.
>
> I meant:
>
> if not type(TheClass)==type:
>     continue
>
> (to detect new-style classes) but you're probably better off giving
> all your 30 classes a common base class, i.e. MessageControl, and
> checking like this:
>
> if not type(TheClass)==type:
>     continue
> if not issubclass(TheClass, MessageControl):
>     continue
> c = TheClass()
> # more stuff

thanks, this kind of worked...
modified to check the subclass
 if type(x)==type:
            if issubclass(x,object):
                d.append(x())


What is the difference between:

class A:
    def __init__(self):
....
type <type 'classobj'>

class B(object):
    def __init__(self):
....
type: <type 'type'>


Shouldn't both be classobj?
Since they are not how can I tell this is a class I am after? What
would happen if I had a mix of both class A, class B(object)......?


Lucas
-- 
Copy paste python code
http://lucasmanual.com/mywiki/PythonManual

From carl at personnelware.com  Fri Feb  1 19:56:40 2008
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 12:56:40 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] XO for recording PyCon
In-Reply-To: <1201890768.9134.13.camel@stox.dyndns.org>
References: <47A3621D.7060406@personnelware.com>
	<1201890768.9134.13.camel@stox.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <47A36B68.7010506@personnelware.com>

Kenneth P. Stox wrote:
> On Fri, 2008-02-01 at 12:17 -0600, Carl Karsten wrote:
>> Is there any reason the XO would not work for this?
> 
> I don't think so. Not enough CPU to generate MPEG's in real time, a

I was planing on just saving the stream in the raw format that I get from the 
device (DV I think) and then doing the encoding later.   So if you think it 
might be able to do mpeg, then I should have no problem just moving the data 
around.

> little tight on memory also. Unless you are planning on streaming in
> real time, a quality camcorder will do a much better job. Especially the
> optics, webcams image quality is terrible when compared to a real
> camera.

Not an issue.  these 2 cover that:

 >> the desired VGA capture device
 >> even if the quality is poor, it will help sync with other
 >> streams in post production editing.)

Carl K

From ianb at colorstudy.com  Fri Feb  1 20:08:28 2008
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 13:08:28 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] XO for recording PyCon
In-Reply-To: <47A3621D.7060406@personnelware.com>
References: <47A3621D.7060406@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <47A36E2C.9060308@colorstudy.com>

Carl Karsten wrote:
> I am trying to arrange to record all 108 hours of PyCon audio and video. 
> assuming I get the desired VGA capture device, I need a box with USB 2 and audio 
> in.  I can provide an external HD.
> 
> Is there any reason the XO would not work for this?

No one has really tried it.  It's not clear if the data could be saved 
fast enough, or even if the software support is setup for that sort of 
thing yet (e.g., saving raw files).  This could be pretty hard.

If you want to try it ahead of time I can lend you a machine.  But I 
think it would be more of an interesting experiment than a good way to 
figure out this particular problem.  The record activity itself really 
doesn't have any interface to do this sort of thing, though maybe it's 
possible to install (via yum) whatever is necessary to do this.

   Ian

From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com  Fri Feb  1 20:14:29 2008
From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 13:14:29 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] create all classes
In-Reply-To: <804e5c70802011035y363243c8ra78fb335bbc11c3b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <804e5c70802010826ibaa8a4j28ab5a22eb269916@mail.gmail.com>
	<b571660a0802010832l387b5c85xd6eb9e1c25369f64@mail.gmail.com>
	<b571660a0802010906l1476fffao956bb510ce4c483e@mail.gmail.com>
	<804e5c70802011035y363243c8ra78fb335bbc11c3b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b571660a0802011114y6ca54d72y97157bf1760adfc3@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 1, 2008 12:35 PM, Lukasz Szybalski <szybalski at gmail.com> wrote:
> What is the difference between:
>
> class A:
>     def __init__(self):
> ....
> type <type 'classobj'>
>
> class B(object):
>     def __init__(self):
> ....
> type: <type 'type'>
>
>
> Shouldn't both be classobj?

in python 3 they will both be <type 'type'> iirc.  In 2.4 and 2.5 you
get the <type 'classobj'> if you don't inherit from object for legacy
support; more info:

http://docs.python.org/ref/node33.html


> Since they are not how can I tell this is a class I am after? What
> would happen if I had a mix of both class A, class B(object)......?
>
>
> Lucas
> --
> Copy paste python code
> http://lucasmanual.com/mywiki/PythonManual
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From carl at personnelware.com  Fri Feb  1 21:40:40 2008
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 14:40:40 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] XO for recording PyCon
In-Reply-To: <47A36E2C.9060308@colorstudy.com>
References: <47A3621D.7060406@personnelware.com>
	<47A36E2C.9060308@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <47A383C8.6010702@personnelware.com>

Ian Bicking wrote:
> Carl Karsten wrote:
>> I am trying to arrange to record all 108 hours of PyCon audio and video. 
>> assuming I get the desired VGA capture device, I need a box with USB 2 and audio 
>> in.  I can provide an external HD.
>>
>> Is there any reason the XO would not work for this?
> 
> No one has really tried it.  It's not clear if the data could be saved 
> fast enough, or even if the software support is setup for that sort of 
> thing yet (e.g., saving raw files).  This could be pretty hard.
> 
> If you want to try it ahead of time I can lend you a machine.  

cool.  Now if I can get my hands on the VGA capture device.
http://www.epiphan.com/products/product.php?pid=66

> But I 
> think it would be more of an interesting experiment than a good way to 
> figure out this particular problem.  The record activity itself really 
> doesn't have any interface to do this sort of thing, though maybe it's 
> possible to install (via yum) whatever is necessary to do this.

It seemed like a handy way to get 5 similar systems.  the pile of laptops I have 
might have worked, until someone said 'we need audio'.


This will be 'fun':
"""
VGA2USB/DVI2USB is compatible with Linux. VGA2USB/DVI2USB driver supports V4L 
(Video4Linux) interface along with specialized interface designed by Epiphan.

Although we provide a Linux SDK (API for driver and examples), we do not provide 
source code for the driver itself. Please contact us if you need a driver 
compiled for a specific kernel version or kernel setting.

Precompiled drivers:

     * version 3.7.32 for Fedora 8, 2.6.23.9-85.fc8, i686
     * version 3.7.32 for Fedora 7, 2.6.23.8-34.fc7, i686
     * version 3.7.32 for Ubuntu 2.6.22-14-generic i686

"""
http://www.epiphan.com/products/product.php?ppid=24&PHPSESSID=tshmtf50lhuhtukut6s9l4q272

I'll tell them I need it compiled for the XO.  ok, that will be a waste of time.

What do you think I should ask?

Carl K




From tcp at mac.com  Fri Feb  1 21:43:37 2008
From: tcp at mac.com (Ted Pollari)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 12:43:37 -0800
Subject: [Chicago] XO for recording PyCon
In-Reply-To: <47A383C8.6010702@personnelware.com>
References: <47A3621D.7060406@personnelware.com>
	<47A36E2C.9060308@colorstudy.com>
	<47A383C8.6010702@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <47D5127E-36D8-4815-BAB7-DEE40AAF0BAF@mac.com>


On Feb 1, 2008, at 12:40 PM, Carl Karsten wrote:

> What do you think I should ask?
>
> Carl K


Perhaps -- "Anyone got 4 linux laptops that I can borrow for PyCon?"

=P

-t

From carl at personnelware.com  Fri Feb  1 22:00:25 2008
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 15:00:25 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] XO for recording PyCon
In-Reply-To: <47D5127E-36D8-4815-BAB7-DEE40AAF0BAF@mac.com>
References: <47A3621D.7060406@personnelware.com>	<47A36E2C.9060308@colorstudy.com>	<47A383C8.6010702@personnelware.com>
	<47D5127E-36D8-4815-BAB7-DEE40AAF0BAF@mac.com>
Message-ID: <47A38869.2050700@personnelware.com>

Ted Pollari wrote:
> On Feb 1, 2008, at 12:40 PM, Carl Karsten wrote:
> 
>> What do you think I should ask?
>>
>> Carl K
> 
> 
> Perhaps -- "Anyone got 4 linux laptops that I can borrow for PyCon?"

and they should all be the same.
and linux support for the audio hardware.
and at least a 40g HD. Oh yeah, usb2.

 >=P

looks like spiky aname hair.  you got goofy super powers?

Carl K

From skip at pobox.com  Sat Feb  2 05:03:18 2008
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 22:03:18 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Pretty much OT: xkcd on real programmers
Message-ID: <18339.60294.764895.227112@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>

Got this from a colleague at work:

    http://xkcd.com/378/

whose response was:

    Real programmers set the universal constants at the start such that the
    universe evolves to contain the disk with the data they want.

:-)

Skip

From korpios at korpios.com  Sat Feb  2 06:30:11 2008
From: korpios at korpios.com (Tom Tobin)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 23:30:11 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Pretty much OT: xkcd on real programmers
In-Reply-To: <18339.60294.764895.227112@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
References: <18339.60294.764895.227112@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
Message-ID: <bf0b20a90802012130k4f096438i89221e4f35460b41@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/1/08, skip at pobox.com <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
> Got this from a colleague at work:
>
>     http://xkcd.com/378/
>
> whose response was:
>
>     Real programmers set the universal constants at the start such that the
>     universe evolves to contain the disk with the data they want.

Err, yeah, because your colleague read the "title" attribute off of
the image.  :-D  (Just hover over the image with your cursor, assuming
you're using a typical GUI browser.)

And remember: ``import antigravity`` is your friend.

From skip at pobox.com  Sat Feb  2 06:48:30 2008
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 23:48:30 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Pretty much OT: xkcd on real programmers
In-Reply-To: <bf0b20a90802012130k4f096438i89221e4f35460b41@mail.gmail.com>
References: <18339.60294.764895.227112@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
	<bf0b20a90802012130k4f096438i89221e4f35460b41@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <18340.1070.890918.855783@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>


    >> whose response was:
    >> 
    >> Real programmers set the universal constants at the start such that
    >> the universe evolves to contain the disk with the data they want.

    Tom> Err, yeah, because your colleague read the "title" attribute off of
    Tom> the image.  :-D (Just hover over the image with your cursor,
    Tom> assuming you're using a typical GUI browser.)

Ah, sorry about that.  I'm not too much of an xkcd whiz.  I'm sure my
colleague didn't mean to mislead.  It was just my thick-headedness.  Thanks
for straightening me out.  (Actually, Neal is the kind of guy who would tend
to come up with that sort of stuff... :-)

Skip

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Sat Feb  2 21:11:09 2008
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 14:11:09 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Talk proposal for Feb: mapping
In-Reply-To: <a68ced640802010848u1f89fde5h8ab4733ce6373f76@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8c58fcec0801191844i7be32c52s6c42124447308167@mail.gmail.com>
	<a68ced640802010848u1f89fde5h8ab4733ce6373f76@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0802021211r27c61814j80a109628602352e@mail.gmail.com>

We still don't have a for-sure venue.  I know we're looking into the
Pycon hotel, but does anyone have a backup?

Chris

On Feb 1, 2008 10:48 AM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
> On Jan 19, 2008 8:44 PM, Paul Smith <paulsmith at pobox.com> wrote:
>
> > If there's any interest in this topic, I'd like to give a quick
> > tutorial in setting up a mapping solution from scratch with Mapnik,
> > Django, and OpenLayers.
> >
> > Looking forward to the meeting and to PyCon,
>
> I am psyched about this meeting and I was wondering if anyone from
> Navteq is in our group. If not, does anyone know if they use python?
> We should see if they do and then invite the pythonistas over. (Or
> maybe get them to invite us over).
>
> --
> sheila
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From bray at sent.com  Sun Feb  3 04:19:01 2008
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 21:19:01 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Talk proposal for Feb: mapping
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0802021211r27c61814j80a109628602352e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8c58fcec0801191844i7be32c52s6c42124447308167@mail.gmail.com>
	<a68ced640802010848u1f89fde5h8ab4733ce6373f76@mail.gmail.com>
	<3096c19d0802021211r27c61814j80a109628602352e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2BFE1BD9-34E3-49B2-9BF8-69C2CE1ABFEB@sent.com>


On Feb 2, 2008, at 2:11 PM, Chris McAvoy wrote:

> We still don't have a for-sure venue.  I know we're looking into the
> Pycon hotel, but does anyone have a backup?


I spoke briefly with Carl today about the hold up. He said he should  
know more by Monday or Tuesday. I guess it has something to do with  
getting an ok on using the meeting as a PyCon Planning meeting.

Nonetheless, backup plans are always good ;)


Brian Ray
bray at sent.com
http://kazavoo.com/blog

From joshua.mcadams at gmail.com  Sun Feb  3 06:30:20 2008
From: joshua.mcadams at gmail.com (Joshua McAdams)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 23:30:20 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Talk proposal for Feb: mapping
In-Reply-To: <2BFE1BD9-34E3-49B2-9BF8-69C2CE1ABFEB@sent.com>
References: <8c58fcec0801191844i7be32c52s6c42124447308167@mail.gmail.com>
	<a68ced640802010848u1f89fde5h8ab4733ce6373f76@mail.gmail.com>
	<3096c19d0802021211r27c61814j80a109628602352e@mail.gmail.com>
	<2BFE1BD9-34E3-49B2-9BF8-69C2CE1ABFEB@sent.com>
Message-ID: <49d805d70802022130s14721b46s72c661bb369b08ef@mail.gmail.com>

> Nonetheless, backup plans are always good ;)

I know that Performics had mentioned that they'd offer up a meeting
room for Chipy.  If no one else from there speaks up, I can stick
around and host the meeting.  Is that okay for a backup plan?

From bray at sent.com  Sun Feb  3 13:24:45 2008
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 06:24:45 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Talk proposal for Feb: mapping
In-Reply-To: <49d805d70802022130s14721b46s72c661bb369b08ef@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8c58fcec0801191844i7be32c52s6c42124447308167@mail.gmail.com>
	<a68ced640802010848u1f89fde5h8ab4733ce6373f76@mail.gmail.com>
	<3096c19d0802021211r27c61814j80a109628602352e@mail.gmail.com>
	<2BFE1BD9-34E3-49B2-9BF8-69C2CE1ABFEB@sent.com>
	<49d805d70802022130s14721b46s72c661bb369b08ef@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8AFF091A-8B23-455B-8818-2457A54DB551@sent.com>


On Feb 2, 2008, at 11:30 PM, Joshua McAdams wrote:

>> Nonetheless, backup plans are always good ;)
>
> I know that Performics had mentioned that they'd offer up a meeting
> room for Chipy.  If no one else from there speaks up, I can stick
> around and host the meeting.  Is that okay for a backup plan?

Yes, that is a great back up plan. In fact, we deferred a previous  
Perfromics to this month when GETCO stepped up.

Luckily, our calendar system allows a little extra time this month to  
prepare. Would it be to lofty of a goal to have a venue in place a  
week prior to the meeting date?

Brian Ray
bray at sent.com
http://kazavoo.com/blog

From szybalski at gmail.com  Mon Feb  4 18:09:29 2008
From: szybalski at gmail.com (Lukasz Szybalski)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 11:09:29 -0600
Subject: [Chicago]  Flourish! 2008 conference at UIC - April 4 and 5
In-Reply-To: <3d76512f0802040832qb047807la9199ee6f35e36ea@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3d76512f0801250728t3a4fdbc9v1416b11d3cabd2c2@mail.gmail.com>
	<804e5c70801250746p6e939f4j9032e825f09050b7@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080126134246.GA20606@furrr.two14.net>
	<804e5c70802040803m2fb7f643l9c6edbd06979d253@mail.gmail.com>
	<3d76512f0802040832qb047807la9199ee6f35e36ea@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <804e5c70802040909nfff18f8o1a3538dd0f49c8b9@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Roberto Serrano <ohrock at gmail.com>
Date: Feb 4, 2008 10:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Chicago] Fwd: [UIC-LUG] Flourish! 2008 conference at UIC
- April 4 and 5
To: ACM at listserv.uic.edu


As far as flourish conference goes:

Three things that I can think of that chi py could contribute: ( look
at the website for a more detail description)

  - A team from django,Turbogears (or another python framework) to
compete in the WAFD Rumble
  - Python speaker would be great
  - If any project/developer from the python community is interested
in the hackathon, they are welcome to talk to us.

Main site:
http://www.flourishconf.com
WAFD Rumble:
 -http://www.flourishconf.com/flourish2008/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13&Itemid=30#WAFDRumble
Hackathon:
 -http://www.flourishconf.com/flourish2008/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13&Itemid=30

Or you can show off your open source project at:
Flourish Mini-expo


Thank you for your help!
You can send email to info at flourishconf.com or email Roberto Serrano
<ohrock at gmail.com> directly.

Lucas



> On Jan 26, 2008 7:42 AM, Martin Maney <maney at two14.net> wrote:
> > On Fri, Jan 25, 2008 at 09:46:57AM -0600, Lukasz Szybalski wrote:
> > > FYI.
> > > Maybe some Chicago based project want to get invlolved.
> >
> > Which reminds me that some of the folks behind Flourish were talking
> > about having something like a bake-off if they could get participants
> > from Django, Rails, PHP (?), ... communities.  Or did I in fact pass
> > that along here back when it was fresh in my mind and have forgotten I
> > did so?  MLAS...
> >
> > --
> > Some people, when confronted with a problem, think
> > "I know, I'll use regular expressions."
> > Now they have two problems  -- Jamie Zawinski
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Vehicle Information Number. Check for Authentic VIN
> http://lucasmanual.com/vin
> TurboGears from start to finish:
> http://www.lucasmanual.com/mywiki/TurboGears
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To post, send an email to acm at listserv.uic.edu
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from the listserv, send a message to
> listserv at uic.edu with SIGNOFF ACM in the message body.
>

 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To post, send an email to acm at listserv.uic.edu To UNSUBSCRIBE from the
listserv, send a message to listserv at uic.edu with SIGNOFF ACM in the
message body.


-- 
Vehicle Information Number. Check for Authentic VIN
http://lucasmanual.com/vin
TurboGears from start to finish:
http://www.lucasmanual.com/mywiki/TurboGears

From pfein at pobox.com  Mon Feb  4 18:24:04 2008
From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 12:24:04 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] March Meeting?
Message-ID: <200802041224.05042.pfein@pobox.com>

Are we having a March meeting?  I know it's the night before PyCon & 1st day 
of tutorials, but should we have a meeting anyway?  It'd be awesome to have 
the meeting at the hotel space... with all the Pycon attendees in town, it 
could be our Biggest Meeting Ever. ;-)

I'd be in town, I could do a talk...

--Pete

-- 
Peter Fein   ||   773-575-0694   ||   pfein at pobox.com
http://www.pobox.com/~pfein/   ||   PGP: 0xCCF6AE6B
irc: pfein at freenode.net   ||   jabber: peter.fein at gmail.com

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Tue Feb  5 03:27:26 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 20:27:26 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] web2py 1.20 is out
Message-ID: <D53FEAD9-89A5-45B1-9BB3-B2866B9E5FD3@cs.depaul.edu>

web2py 1.20 is out.

       www.web2py.com

New features include the inclusion of a web based testing framework -  
a screenshot is here:

       http://web2py.googlegroups.com/web/test.tiff

pyamf howto, rest support, handler for lighttpd/fcgi, WIKI helper,  
etc. AND it is always backward compatible.

The source code is also on

      code.google.com/p/web2py

Here are a dozen of ready made applications which you can install  
from the web interface.

     http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/appliances

Massimo

From jsudlow at gmail.com  Tue Feb  5 04:07:56 2008
From: jsudlow at gmail.com (Jon Sudlow)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 21:07:56 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] web2py 1.20 is out
In-Reply-To: <D53FEAD9-89A5-45B1-9BB3-B2866B9E5FD3@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <D53FEAD9-89A5-45B1-9BB3-B2866B9E5FD3@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <eb9a21ad0802041907y75ac5d5el1ba41dda261c3988@mail.gmail.com>

With all these frameworks out, which one should you use. I'm swamped with
Django, Ruby on Rails, Turbo Gears, Zope/Plone, when does it end???

Does anyone have any suggestions or experience to argue one framework over
another?

On Feb 4, 2008 8:27 PM, Massimo Di Pierro <mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu> wrote:

> web2py 1.20 is out.
>
>       www.web2py.com
>
> New features include the inclusion of a web based testing framework -
> a screenshot is here:
>
>       http://web2py.googlegroups.com/web/test.tiff
>
> pyamf howto, rest support, handler for lighttpd/fcgi, WIKI helper,
> etc. AND it is always backward compatible.
>
> The source code is also on
>
>      code.google.com/p/web2py
>
> Here are a dozen of ready made applications which you can install
> from the web interface.
>
>     http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/appliances
>
> Massimo
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
Jon Sudlow
3225 Foster Avenue
221 Sohlberg Hall
C.P.O 2224
Chicago, Il  60625
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From cstejerean at gmail.com  Tue Feb  5 04:15:22 2008
From: cstejerean at gmail.com (Cosmin Stejerean)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 21:15:22 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] web2py 1.20 is out
In-Reply-To: <eb9a21ad0802041907y75ac5d5el1ba41dda261c3988@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D53FEAD9-89A5-45B1-9BB3-B2866B9E5FD3@cs.depaul.edu>
	<eb9a21ad0802041907y75ac5d5el1ba41dda261c3988@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <276266d0802041915m5de06cfcsa0747a14e4397e6b@mail.gmail.com>

I'm not going to argue but I really like Pylons. Maybe not quite as heavily
utilized in the wild as Zope or Django but worth taking a look at. I don't
particularly like Mako so I use Pylons + Genshi.

I didn't like some of the early design choices of Django.
I dislike TG's heavy use of function decorators (and heard rumors of moving
to converge with Pylons)
For some reason I never liked Zope (and I actually hate Plone)

RoR is a different beast for a different mailing list.

- Cosmin

On Feb 4, 2008 9:07 PM, Jon Sudlow <jsudlow at gmail.com> wrote:

> With all these frameworks out, which one should you use. I'm swamped with
> Django, Ruby on Rails, Turbo Gears, Zope/Plone, when does it end???
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions or experience to argue one framework over
> another?
>
>
> On Feb 4, 2008 8:27 PM, Massimo Di Pierro <mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
>
> > web2py 1.20 is out.
> >
> >       www.web2py.com
> >
> > New features include the inclusion of a web based testing framework -
> > a screenshot is here:
> >
> >       http://web2py.googlegroups.com/web/test.tiff
> >
> > pyamf howto, rest support, handler for lighttpd/fcgi, WIKI helper,
> > etc. AND it is always backward compatible.
> >
> > The source code is also on
> >
> >      code.google.com/p/web2py
> >
> > Here are a dozen of ready made applications which you can install
> > from the web interface.
> >
> >     http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/appliances
> >
> > Massimo
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Jon Sudlow
> 3225 Foster Avenue
> 221 Sohlberg Hall
> C.P.O 2224
> Chicago, Il  60625
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>


-- 
Cosmin Stejerean
http://blog.offbytwo.com
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From dgriff1 at gmail.com  Tue Feb  5 04:29:33 2008
From: dgriff1 at gmail.com (Daniel Griffin)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 21:29:33 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] web2py 1.20 is out
In-Reply-To: <eb9a21ad0802041907y75ac5d5el1ba41dda261c3988@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D53FEAD9-89A5-45B1-9BB3-B2866B9E5FD3@cs.depaul.edu>
	<eb9a21ad0802041907y75ac5d5el1ba41dda261c3988@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3db160680802041929j101cfa47v1e75dd167fd7e3e7@mail.gmail.com>

I am also confused. There seems to be 2 types of framework, the opinionated
holier than thou kind(Ruby on Rails, Django) and the super flexible,
everything to everybody kind like Pylons.

The one thing I dont really understand is constantly re-writing pieces like
ORM or template languages. I have been using Pylons(with varying success)
which leans slightly towards SQLAlchemy and Mako, but will also work with
SQLObject, DBapi, Kid, Myghty and a slew of other things, which is nice but
also very confusing since the documentation is rough and packed with side
notes. I would really like Prof. Di Pierro's input on this and why he went
the way he did with web2py.

I still havent found a framework that is easy to use for me, namely flexible
ORM(support for multiple databases, composite keys) and easy presentation
using Ext, Prototype etc. Pylons really falls down when it comes to
presentation, I want quick and easy forms and Pylons hasnt really delivered.

I have been trying to solve a much larger problem than any of these
frameworks really prepares me for, namely working with creating a web
front-end to a mature piece of enterprise software. Pylons has given me the
most hope so far, but I think I am still going to end up writing a ton of
boilerplate code.

Sorry if this is a bit of a rant and I dont mean to be rude to Prof. Di
Pierro, I am just struggling to figure out which way is the right way.

Dan


On Feb 4, 2008 9:07 PM, Jon Sudlow <jsudlow at gmail.com> wrote:

> With all these frameworks out, which one should you use. I'm swamped with
> Django, Ruby on Rails, Turbo Gears, Zope/Plone, when does it end???
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions or experience to argue one framework over
> another?
>
>
> On Feb 4, 2008 8:27 PM, Massimo Di Pierro <mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
>
> > web2py 1.20 is out.
> >
> >       www.web2py.com
> >
> > New features include the inclusion of a web based testing framework -
> > a screenshot is here:
> >
> >       http://web2py.googlegroups.com/web/test.tiff
> >
> > pyamf howto, rest support, handler for lighttpd/fcgi, WIKI helper,
> > etc. AND it is always backward compatible.
> >
> > The source code is also on
> >
> >      code.google.com/p/web2py
> >
> > Here are a dozen of ready made applications which you can install
> > from the web interface.
> >
> >     http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/appliances
> >
> > Massimo
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Jon Sudlow
> 3225 Foster Avenue
> 221 Sohlberg Hall
> C.P.O 2224
> Chicago, Il  60625
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From korpios at korpios.com  Tue Feb  5 04:40:16 2008
From: korpios at korpios.com (Tom Tobin)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 21:40:16 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] web2py 1.20 is out
In-Reply-To: <eb9a21ad0802041907y75ac5d5el1ba41dda261c3988@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D53FEAD9-89A5-45B1-9BB3-B2866B9E5FD3@cs.depaul.edu>
	<eb9a21ad0802041907y75ac5d5el1ba41dda261c3988@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bf0b20a90802041940p5bd62caau69cfbcdb17b989d6@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/4/08, Jon Sudlow <jsudlow at gmail.com> wrote:
> With all these frameworks out, which one should you use. I'm swamped with
> Django, Ruby on Rails, Turbo Gears, Zope/Plone, when does it end???
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions or experience to argue one framework over
> another?

Everyone's just going to toss their favorite into the ring, you know.  ;-)

I like Django enough to be on my second full-time job working with it;
I first moved from New York to work at the Lawrence Journal-World in
Kansas (yes, I liked it *that much*), and I'm now with The Onion here
in Chicago.  In almost every case, Django's design decisions "fit my
brain" in the same fashion as Python itself.

The usual mantra applies, of course: YMMV, so try them out for yourself.  ^_^

From korpios at korpios.com  Tue Feb  5 04:57:25 2008
From: korpios at korpios.com (Tom Tobin)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 21:57:25 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] web2py 1.20 is out
In-Reply-To: <3db160680802041929j101cfa47v1e75dd167fd7e3e7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D53FEAD9-89A5-45B1-9BB3-B2866B9E5FD3@cs.depaul.edu>
	<eb9a21ad0802041907y75ac5d5el1ba41dda261c3988@mail.gmail.com>
	<3db160680802041929j101cfa47v1e75dd167fd7e3e7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bf0b20a90802041957l674079f7kaa9f5413486739ef@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/4/08, Daniel Griffin <dgriff1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am also confused. There seems to be 2 types of framework, the opinionated
> holier than thou kind(Ruby on Rails, Django) and the super flexible,
> everything to everybody kind like Pylons.

Woah ? I really don't get the "holier than thou" appellation as
applied to Django (and neither does the rest of the Django community,
from what I've seen).  Djangonauts have pointed out time and again
that Django doesn't stop you from using other components ? and people
*do* use other components.  Thing is, Python is such a fantastic
language that it's easier to roll your own component to do exactly
what you want than try to "shove" another component into a slot it
doesn't quite fit.  Nothing quite fit when Django was developed (this
being before its public release, since it was borne of a newspaper's
internal dev team), and the resulting components fit together like a
tailored suit.

In short: Django's components fit *Django* best, and plenty of the
userbase as well; if you only want that pair of trousers, or that
shirt, well, go ahead and mix it up ? but don't blame us for wearing
the tailored outfit, and we won't say anything about the Hawaiian
shirt.  ;-)

From dgriff1 at gmail.com  Tue Feb  5 05:04:21 2008
From: dgriff1 at gmail.com (Daniel Griffin)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 22:04:21 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] web2py 1.20 is out
In-Reply-To: <bf0b20a90802041957l674079f7kaa9f5413486739ef@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D53FEAD9-89A5-45B1-9BB3-B2866B9E5FD3@cs.depaul.edu>
	<eb9a21ad0802041907y75ac5d5el1ba41dda261c3988@mail.gmail.com>
	<3db160680802041929j101cfa47v1e75dd167fd7e3e7@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf0b20a90802041957l674079f7kaa9f5413486739ef@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3db160680802042004n15c7dfb7r611c83ee0094abeb@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry if I incorrectly grouped django in there. I have heard it compared to
Rails many many times, it does kinda push you down one path which is very
easy if you are designing from scratch and pretty hard if you have to work
with an existing dataset. What stops me in my tracks is the lack or support
for composite primary keys.

Thanks,
Dan

On Feb 4, 2008 9:57 PM, Tom Tobin <korpios at korpios.com> wrote:

> On 2/4/08, Daniel Griffin <dgriff1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I am also confused. There seems to be 2 types of framework, the
> opinionated
> > holier than thou kind(Ruby on Rails, Django) and the super flexible,
> > everything to everybody kind like Pylons.
>
> Woah ? I really don't get the "holier than thou" appellation as
> applied to Django (and neither does the rest of the Django community,
> from what I've seen).  Djangonauts have pointed out time and again
> that Django doesn't stop you from using other components ? and people
> *do* use other components.  Thing is, Python is such a fantastic
> language that it's easier to roll your own component to do exactly
> what you want than try to "shove" another component into a slot it
> doesn't quite fit.  Nothing quite fit when Django was developed (this
> being before its public release, since it was borne of a newspaper's
> internal dev team), and the resulting components fit together like a
> tailored suit.
>
> In short: Django's components fit *Django* best, and plenty of the
> userbase as well; if you only want that pair of trousers, or that
> shirt, well, go ahead and mix it up ? but don't blame us for wearing
> the tailored outfit, and we won't say anything about the Hawaiian
> shirt.  ;-)
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From korpios at korpios.com  Tue Feb  5 05:30:01 2008
From: korpios at korpios.com (Tom Tobin)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 22:30:01 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] web2py 1.20 is out
In-Reply-To: <3db160680802042004n15c7dfb7r611c83ee0094abeb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D53FEAD9-89A5-45B1-9BB3-B2866B9E5FD3@cs.depaul.edu>
	<eb9a21ad0802041907y75ac5d5el1ba41dda261c3988@mail.gmail.com>
	<3db160680802041929j101cfa47v1e75dd167fd7e3e7@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf0b20a90802041957l674079f7kaa9f5413486739ef@mail.gmail.com>
	<3db160680802042004n15c7dfb7r611c83ee0094abeb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bf0b20a90802042030u21c57ac0r3fa8e99a94dfacc3@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/4/08, Daniel Griffin <dgriff1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry if I incorrectly grouped django in there. I have heard it compared to
> Rails many many times, it does kinda push you down one path which is very
> easy if you are designing from scratch and pretty hard if you have to work
> with an existing dataset. What stops me in my tracks is the lack or support
> for composite primary keys.

Regarding the primary keys, you're correct ? the built-in ORM supports
composite unique keys (via the "unique_together" setting), but not
composite primary keys.  Composite primary keys wouldn't make much
sense for the way the included ORM handles joins.  One could always
use another ORM (e.g., SQLAlchemy) with Django; again, the main
drawback is that the "contrib" apps are built to use the included
components (as they had to be built on *something*) ... but you don't
have to use them.  ^_^

From cstejerean at gmail.com  Tue Feb  5 05:47:30 2008
From: cstejerean at gmail.com (Cosmin Stejerean)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 22:47:30 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] web2py 1.20 is out
In-Reply-To: <3db160680802041929j101cfa47v1e75dd167fd7e3e7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D53FEAD9-89A5-45B1-9BB3-B2866B9E5FD3@cs.depaul.edu>
	<eb9a21ad0802041907y75ac5d5el1ba41dda261c3988@mail.gmail.com>
	<3db160680802041929j101cfa47v1e75dd167fd7e3e7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <276266d0802042047l13bf91fdpbfb8584f581c1da6@mail.gmail.com>

I really liked web.py for a while in that it didn't force me to write code
any given way. It just provided the boilerplate WSGI parsing and allowed one
to go from there. The nice part about this is that you can write some boiler
plate code the first time and create some "framework" for yourself and then
re-use it in future projects. But what really drew me to Pylons honestly is
seeing the web based debugger. The ability to get an interactive web page
when there is an error and be able to inspect the code and get a full
featured Python prompt.
On Feb 4, 2008 9:29 PM, Daniel Griffin <dgriff1 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I am also confused. There seems to be 2 types of framework, the
> opinionated holier than thou kind(Ruby on Rails, Django) and the super
> flexible, everything to everybody kind like Pylons.
>
> The one thing I dont really understand is constantly re-writing pieces
> like ORM or template languages. I have been using Pylons(with varying
> success) which leans slightly towards SQLAlchemy and Mako, but will also
> work with SQLObject, DBapi, Kid, Myghty and a slew of other things, which is
> nice but also very confusing since the documentation is rough and packed
> with side notes. I would really like Prof. Di Pierro's input on this and why
> he went the way he did with web2py.
>
> I still havent found a framework that is easy to use for me, namely
> flexible ORM(support for multiple databases, composite keys) and easy
> presentation using Ext, Prototype etc. Pylons really falls down when it
> comes to presentation, I want quick and easy forms and Pylons hasnt really
> delivered.


I wouldn't look to a web application framework to provide quick easy forms.
Either find a library that allows you to do this or roll out your own.

>
>
> I have been trying to solve a much larger problem than any of these
> frameworks really prepares me for, namely working with creating a web
> front-end to a mature piece of enterprise software. Pylons has given me the
> most hope so far, but I think I am still going to end up writing a ton of
> boilerplate code.
>

I wouldn't make that assumption. And if you do end up writing a bunch of
code you'll end up with a system that works the way you want (and more
importantly in a way that you fully understand). For any non-trivial
application no framework will work off the shelf.


> Sorry if this is a bit of a rant and I dont mean to be rude to Prof. Di
> Pierro, I am just struggling to figure out which way is the right way.
>

What I really like is not having the framework make any decision about what
kind of ORM or templating language I should use. Applications generate more
than just HTML (XML, json, PDF, etc) and can use more than just a RDBMS. But
the core of a web application is the ability to handle HTTP requests and
responses and that's all I personally want from a web framework. I'm
perfectly capable of picking the rest.


>
> Dan
>

- Cosmin
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From carl at personnelware.com  Tue Feb  5 06:03:51 2008
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2008 23:03:51 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Django at The Onion
In-Reply-To: <bf0b20a90802041940p5bd62caau69cfbcdb17b989d6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D53FEAD9-89A5-45B1-9BB3-B2866B9E5FD3@cs.depaul.edu>	<eb9a21ad0802041907y75ac5d5el1ba41dda261c3988@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf0b20a90802041940p5bd62caau69cfbcdb17b989d6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47A7EE37.2010607@personnelware.com>

> 
> I like Django enough to be on my second full-time job working with it;
> I first moved from New York to work at the Lawrence Journal-World in
> Kansas (yes, I liked it *that much*), and I'm now with The Onion here
> in Chicago.  In almost every case, Django's design decisions "fit my
> brain" in the same fashion as Python itself.

Oh, we so need to get 1200 copies of The Onion delivered to PyCon.  stuff it in 
all the bags.  (the bag stuffers will love me.)

Can you make that happen?

Can you get a news crew to cover PyCon?

Does Onion actually have crews?  (I kinda doubt it, but it seems like an 
undefined variable.)

Carl K



From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Tue Feb  5 06:15:28 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 23:15:28 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] web2py 1.20 is out
In-Reply-To: <3db160680802041929j101cfa47v1e75dd167fd7e3e7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D53FEAD9-89A5-45B1-9BB3-B2866B9E5FD3@cs.depaul.edu>
	<eb9a21ad0802041907y75ac5d5el1ba41dda261c3988@mail.gmail.com>
	<3db160680802041929j101cfa47v1e75dd167fd7e3e7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F234B287-FA77-46C1-AFBA-1258964B7553@cs.depaul.edu>

Dear Daniel,

you were not rude to me so no need to apologize. Please call me Massimo.

For anybody who want a quickstart, I suggest the 5mins tutorial
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBjja6N6IYk
or the long tutorial
   http://www.vimeo.com/428474

Daniel, you actually asked a good question: Why did I develop web2py?

It was summer 2007 when I realized I had two problems:

1) my father, who is an experienced visual basic developer, wanted to  
start doing web development. Since I have developed and/or I have  
taught django, turbogears and rails, I suggested those and pushed him  
towards open source. Turned out they did not work for him because he  
had no intention to use shell scripting, learn how to configure a  
database, a web server, etc. Most importantly none of those systems  
allows to compile (or bytecode compile) applications.

2) I was going to teach a class on (the inner workings of) web  
frameworks. I am teaching the class now. I looked into Django and  
Pylons and I found both of them too complex for the task. I found  
that Pylons is rapidly evolving, but the documentation is not always  
in sync with the current version and leaves many options to the  
developer (SQLObject vs SQLAlchemy, Genshi vs Kid vs Mako, etc.).  
Students typically do not like this.

So I started writing web2py with the following goals that are now  
UNIQUE FEATURES of web2y:

1) design the user API first and never break backward compatibility
2) have everything in one package with no dependencies (including  
python, web server, sqlite database, web interface, etc.)
3) enable the developer to do everything through the web interface  
(development, debugging, testing, deployment, management and database  
administration).
4) ability to byte-code compile apps.
5) ability to run from a USB drive without installation (not even of  
Python) and without configuration.
6) provide a built-in ticketing system to track ALL runtime errors  
for easy debugging.
7) fit everything in less than 1.3MB (including images, epydocs and  
other static files).

Almost all web2py code is written from scratch except the web server  
(it uses httpserver from paste, the same as pylons). I borrowed some  
ideas from Django  (form processing, admin interface, the use of  
decorators for caching), some from Turbogears (the simpler syntax for  
controllers, response.flash), some from SQLAlchemy (the syntax of the  
web2py ORM is similar to SQLAlchemy but web2py is much faster).

There are things I did not like of those frameworks, so I got rid of  
them in web2py:
1) all the tedious configuration steps. web2py has NO config files.
2) the fact that a controller needs a view. In web2py views are  
generated automatically and dynamically until the user creates one.
3) the languages using for the view/templates. web2py uses 100% pure  
python for the views without limitations with one caveat: "pass"  
closes a block so there is no indentation requirement.
4) view helpers. I think web2py helpers are more intuitive than any  
alternative. They are so intuitive that people labeled them as  
stupid. I take it as a compliment.
5) the too many choices they give to the developer (where should  
sessions be stored? should they be on or off? what is the name of a  
view associated to a controller? which url maps into a give  
controller?). web2py makes those choices and does not ask questions.  
In some cases an experienced developer can override web2py choices.
6) lack of security. For example, Django by default does not escape  
the output printed in the html. web2py validates URL, all forms  
(based on their corresponding DB field types), escapes all output  
(unless user explicitly says no).

I am sure this does not settle it and, to a great extent, which  
framework is better is not so much a technical issue as it is a  
religious issue. And, I do not wish to be  involved in a war of  
religion.

I just hope people will give web2py a try because, even if you do not  
like it, it may give you some ideas on how to improve Django and  
Pylons and make them more user friendly. It is also a great way to  
teach MVC even if you decide to go with Django or Pylons or Rails.

Massimo


From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  5 06:26:51 2008
From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 21:26:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Chicago] web2py 1.20 is out
In-Reply-To: <3db160680802041929j101cfa47v1e75dd167fd7e3e7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <775943.81913.qm@web34802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

There is no right framework for every need. I do get the feeling that
maybe what you are looking for is a "full-stack" framework like
TurboGears. Of the various Python web frameworks, TurboGears comes
closest to addressing everything from backend to frontend. Google
around for a screencast that shows how to use TurboGears in
conjunction with Adobe Flex. Unfortunately, there isn't any special
integration between the two, it's just the two frameworks
communicating via JSON. However, adding JSON support for a controller
method in TurboGears is super trivial (just put @expose("json") on
top of the method).

Personally, I think that every Python web programmer should try
making their own web framework. Not because it's a "cool" thing to
do, but because it helps you understand the design decisions. With
this knowledge you are better prepared to evaluate the tradeoffs that
each framework makes. And really, it's not so hard to build your
framework, if you start off from something like Paste (which is like
a framework for making frameworks). I should mention that the cool
web-based debugger in Pylons actually comes from Paste, and you can
use it in any framework built on top of Paste.

I made a crappy framework a long time ago, but after doing some
programming in Django and Pylons, I feel ready to start working on my
second one. I'm not even going to bother with an ORM, I'm just going
to use CouchDB for the database ;-)


--- Daniel Griffin <dgriff1 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I am also confused. There seems to be 2 types of framework, the
> opinionated
> holier than thou kind(Ruby on Rails, Django) and the super
> flexible,
> everything to everybody kind like Pylons.
> 
> The one thing I dont really understand is constantly re-writing
> pieces like
> ORM or template languages. I have been using Pylons(with varying
> success)
> which leans slightly towards SQLAlchemy and Mako, but will also
> work with
> SQLObject, DBapi, Kid, Myghty and a slew of other things, which is
> nice but
> also very confusing since the documentation is rough and packed
> with side
> notes. I would really like Prof. Di Pierro's input on this and why
> he went
> the way he did with web2py.
> 
> I still havent found a framework that is easy to use for me, namely
> flexible
> ORM(support for multiple databases, composite keys) and easy
> presentation
> using Ext, Prototype etc. Pylons really falls down when it comes to
> presentation, I want quick and easy forms and Pylons hasnt really
> delivered.
> 
> I have been trying to solve a much larger problem than any of these
> frameworks really prepares me for, namely working with creating a
> web
> front-end to a mature piece of enterprise software. Pylons has
> given me the
> most hope so far, but I think I am still going to end up writing a
> ton of
> boilerplate code.
> 
> Sorry if this is a bit of a rant and I dont mean to be rude to
> Prof. Di
> Pierro, I am just struggling to figure out which way is the right
> way.
> 
> Dan
> 
> 
> On Feb 4, 2008 9:07 PM, Jon Sudlow <jsudlow at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > With all these frameworks out, which one should you use. I'm
> swamped with
> > Django, Ruby on Rails, Turbo Gears, Zope/Plone, when does it
> end???
> >
> > Does anyone have any suggestions or experience to argue one
> framework over
> > another?
> >
> >
> > On Feb 4, 2008 8:27 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
> <mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
> >
> > > web2py 1.20 is out.
> > >
> > >       www.web2py.com
> > >
> > > New features include the inclusion of a web based testing
> framework -
> > > a screenshot is here:
> > >
> > >       http://web2py.googlegroups.com/web/test.tiff
> > >
> > > pyamf howto, rest support, handler for lighttpd/fcgi, WIKI
> helper,
> > > etc. AND it is always backward compatible.
> > >
> > > The source code is also on
> > >
> > >      code.google.com/p/web2py
> > >
> > > Here are a dozen of ready made applications which you can
> install
> > > from the web interface.
> > >
> > >     http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/appliances
> > >
> > > Massimo
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Chicago mailing list
> > > Chicago at python.org
> > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jon Sudlow
> > 3225 Foster Avenue
> > 221 Sohlberg Hall
> > C.P.O 2224
> > Chicago, Il  60625
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Tue Feb  5 06:28:59 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 23:28:59 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] web2py 1.20 is out
In-Reply-To: <eb9a21ad0802041907y75ac5d5el1ba41dda261c3988@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D53FEAD9-89A5-45B1-9BB3-B2866B9E5FD3@cs.depaul.edu>
	<eb9a21ad0802041907y75ac5d5el1ba41dda261c3988@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52017795-65D5-4A0E-8E10-E2ACB2047BFB@cs.depaul.edu>

There are many programming languages, there are many operating  
systems, there are many linux distros, and there are many web  
frameworks. Yet python is the best programming language, linux is the  
best os, ubuntu is the best distro, web2py is the best framework.  
Sorry, just kidding. The point I want to make is that some times  
having a choice is good. Things evolve and are subject to artificial  
selection by the users.

So far none of the big python frameworks has won the public as much  
as Rails. I do not think this is because of Python vs Ruby. And I  
also do not think that Rails is that great product, just easier to  
use than most python frameworks.

Massimo

On Feb 4, 2008, at 9:07 PM, Jon Sudlow wrote:

> With all these frameworks out, which one should you use. I'm  
> swamped with Django, Ruby on Rails, Turbo Gears, Zope/Plone, when  
> does it end???


From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Tue Feb  5 06:36:15 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 23:36:15 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] web2py 1.20 is out
In-Reply-To: <775943.81913.qm@web34802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <775943.81913.qm@web34802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C62331B0-7F70-46F3-B0FF-C1F64DCE98DD@cs.depaul.edu>

Doing JSON in web2py is not much more difficult. Here is example 11 from
http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/examples/default/examples

def makejson(): ### this is a samle controller
     import gluon.contrib.simplejson as sj
     return sj.dumps(['foo', {'bar': ('baz', None, 1.0, 2)}])

Here is example 14 with ajax+wiki effects (complete code):

from gluon.contrib.markdown import WIKI
def ajaxwiki_onclick(): return WIKI(request.vars.text).xml()
def ajaxwiki():
     form=FORM(TEXTAREA(_id='text'),INPUT 
(_type='button',_value='markdown',
                  _onclick="ajax('ajaxwiki_onclick',['text'],'html')"))
     return dict(form=form,html=DIV(_id='html'))

Massimo

On Feb 4, 2008, at 11:26 PM, Feihong Hsu wrote:

> There is no right framework for every need. I do get the feeling that
> maybe what you are looking for is a "full-stack" framework like
> TurboGears. Of the various Python web frameworks, TurboGears comes
> closest to addressing everything from backend to frontend. Google
> around for a screencast that shows how to use TurboGears in
> conjunction with Adobe Flex. Unfortunately, there isn't any special
> integration between the two, it's just the two frameworks
> communicating via JSON. However, adding JSON support for a controller
> method in TurboGears is super trivial (just put @expose("json") on
> top of the method).
>
> Personally, I think that every Python web programmer should try
> making their own web framework. Not because it's a "cool" thing to
> do, but because it helps you understand the design decisions. With
> this knowledge you are better prepared to evaluate the tradeoffs that
> each framework makes. And really, it's not so hard to build your
> framework, if you start off from something like Paste (which is like
> a framework for making frameworks). I should mention that the cool
> web-based debugger in Pylons actually comes from Paste, and you can
> use it in any framework built on top of Paste.
>
> I made a crappy framework a long time ago, but after doing some
> programming in Django and Pylons, I feel ready to start working on my
> second one. I'm not even going to bother with an ORM, I'm just going
> to use CouchDB for the database ;-)
>
>
> --- Daniel Griffin <dgriff1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I am also confused. There seems to be 2 types of framework, the
>> opinionated
>> holier than thou kind(Ruby on Rails, Django) and the super
>> flexible,
>> everything to everybody kind like Pylons.
>>
>> The one thing I dont really understand is constantly re-writing
>> pieces like
>> ORM or template languages. I have been using Pylons(with varying
>> success)
>> which leans slightly towards SQLAlchemy and Mako, but will also
>> work with
>> SQLObject, DBapi, Kid, Myghty and a slew of other things, which is
>> nice but
>> also very confusing since the documentation is rough and packed
>> with side
>> notes. I would really like Prof. Di Pierro's input on this and why
>> he went
>> the way he did with web2py.
>>
>> I still havent found a framework that is easy to use for me, namely
>> flexible
>> ORM(support for multiple databases, composite keys) and easy
>> presentation
>> using Ext, Prototype etc. Pylons really falls down when it comes to
>> presentation, I want quick and easy forms and Pylons hasnt really
>> delivered.
>>
>> I have been trying to solve a much larger problem than any of these
>> frameworks really prepares me for, namely working with creating a
>> web
>> front-end to a mature piece of enterprise software. Pylons has
>> given me the
>> most hope so far, but I think I am still going to end up writing a
>> ton of
>> boilerplate code.
>>
>> Sorry if this is a bit of a rant and I dont mean to be rude to
>> Prof. Di
>> Pierro, I am just struggling to figure out which way is the right
>> way.
>>
>> Dan
>>
>>
>> On Feb 4, 2008 9:07 PM, Jon Sudlow <jsudlow at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> With all these frameworks out, which one should you use. I'm
>> swamped with
>>> Django, Ruby on Rails, Turbo Gears, Zope/Plone, when does it
>> end???
>>>
>>> Does anyone have any suggestions or experience to argue one
>> framework over
>>> another?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 4, 2008 8:27 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
>> <mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> web2py 1.20 is out.
>>>>
>>>>       www.web2py.com
>>>>
>>>> New features include the inclusion of a web based testing
>> framework -
>>>> a screenshot is here:
>>>>
>>>>       http://web2py.googlegroups.com/web/test.tiff
>>>>
>>>> pyamf howto, rest support, handler for lighttpd/fcgi, WIKI
>> helper,
>>>> etc. AND it is always backward compatible.
>>>>
>>>> The source code is also on
>>>>
>>>>      code.google.com/p/web2py
>>>>
>>>> Here are a dozen of ready made applications which you can
>> install
>>>> from the web interface.
>>>>
>>>>     http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/appliances
>>>>
>>>> Massimo
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jon Sudlow
>>> 3225 Foster Avenue
>>> 221 Sohlberg Hall
>>> C.P.O 2224
>>> Chicago, Il  60625
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
>
>
>        
> ______________________________________________________________________ 
> ______________
> Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

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From jsudlow at gmail.com  Tue Feb  5 14:52:33 2008
From: jsudlow at gmail.com (Jon Sudlow)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 07:52:33 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] web2py 1.20 is out
In-Reply-To: <C62331B0-7F70-46F3-B0FF-C1F64DCE98DD@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <775943.81913.qm@web34802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<C62331B0-7F70-46F3-B0FF-C1F64DCE98DD@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <eb9a21ad0802050552u5837ddeeu5f800314b73b687@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Prof Di Pierro for whipping that framework up. It looks nice. By the
way, I agree with you Ubuntu is the best linux distro. I love it ;)

On Feb 4, 2008 11:36 PM, Massimo Di Pierro <mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu> wrote:

> Doing JSON in web2py is not much more difficult. Here is example 11 from
> http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/examples/default/examples
>
> def makejson(): ### this is a samle controller
>     import gluon.contrib.simplejson as sj
>     return sj.dumps(['foo', {'bar': ('baz', None, 1.0, 2)}])
>
> Here is example 14 with ajax+wiki effects (complete code):
>
> from gluon.contrib.markdown import WIKI
> def ajaxwiki_onclick(): return WIKI(request.vars.text).xml()
> def ajaxwiki():
>     form=FORM(TEXTAREA(_id='text'),INPUT(_type='button',_value='markdown',
>                  _onclick="ajax('ajaxwiki_onclick',['text'],'html')"))
>     return dict(form=form,html=DIV(_id='html'))
>
> Massimo
>
> On Feb 4, 2008, at 11:26 PM, Feihong Hsu wrote:
>
> There is no right framework for every need. I do get the feeling that
> maybe what you are looking for is a "full-stack" framework like
> TurboGears. Of the various Python web frameworks, TurboGears comes
> closest to addressing everything from backend to frontend. Google
> around for a screencast that shows how to use TurboGears in
> conjunction with Adobe Flex. Unfortunately, there isn't any special
> integration between the two, it's just the two frameworks
> communicating via JSON. However, adding JSON support for a controller
> method in TurboGears is super trivial (just put @expose("json") on
> top of the method).
>
> Personally, I think that every Python web programmer should try
> making their own web framework. Not because it's a "cool" thing to
> do, but because it helps you understand the design decisions. With
> this knowledge you are better prepared to evaluate the tradeoffs that
> each framework makes. And really, it's not so hard to build your
> framework, if you start off from something like Paste (which is like
> a framework for making frameworks). I should mention that the cool
> web-based debugger in Pylons actually comes from Paste, and you can
> use it in any framework built on top of Paste.
>
> I made a crappy framework a long time ago, but after doing some
> programming in Django and Pylons, I feel ready to start working on my
> second one. I'm not even going to bother with an ORM, I'm just going
> to use CouchDB for the database ;-)
>
>
> --- Daniel Griffin <dgriff1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I am also confused. There seems to be 2 types of framework, the
> opinionated
> holier than thou kind(Ruby on Rails, Django) and the super
> flexible,
> everything to everybody kind like Pylons.
>
> The one thing I dont really understand is constantly re-writing
> pieces like
> ORM or template languages. I have been using Pylons(with varying
> success)
> which leans slightly towards SQLAlchemy and Mako, but will also
> work with
> SQLObject, DBapi, Kid, Myghty and a slew of other things, which is
> nice but
> also very confusing since the documentation is rough and packed
> with side
> notes. I would really like Prof. Di Pierro's input on this and why
> he went
> the way he did with web2py.
>
> I still havent found a framework that is easy to use for me, namely
> flexible
> ORM(support for multiple databases, composite keys) and easy
> presentation
> using Ext, Prototype etc. Pylons really falls down when it comes to
> presentation, I want quick and easy forms and Pylons hasnt really
> delivered.
>
> I have been trying to solve a much larger problem than any of these
> frameworks really prepares me for, namely working with creating a
> web
> front-end to a mature piece of enterprise software. Pylons has
> given me the
> most hope so far, but I think I am still going to end up writing a
> ton of
> boilerplate code.
>
> Sorry if this is a bit of a rant and I dont mean to be rude to
> Prof. Di
> Pierro, I am just struggling to figure out which way is the right
> way.
>
> Dan
>
>
> On Feb 4, 2008 9:07 PM, Jon Sudlow <jsudlow at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> With all these frameworks out, which one should you use. I'm
>
> swamped with
>
> Django, Ruby on Rails, Turbo Gears, Zope/Plone, when does it
>
> end???
>
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions or experience to argue one
>
> framework over
>
> another?
>
>
> On Feb 4, 2008 8:27 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
>
> <mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
>
>
> web2py 1.20 is out.
>
>       www.web2py.com
>
> New features include the inclusion of a web based testing
>
> framework -
>
> a screenshot is here:
>
>       http://web2py.googlegroups.com/web/test.tiff
>
> pyamf howto, rest support, handler for lighttpd/fcgi, WIKI
>
> helper,
>
> etc. AND it is always backward compatible.
>
> The source code is also on
>
>      code.google.com/p/web2py
>
> Here are a dozen of ready made applications which you can
>
> install
>
> from the web interface.
>
>     http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/appliances
>
> Massimo
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
>
>
> --
> Jon Sudlow
> 3225 Foster Avenue
> 221 Sohlberg Hall
> C.P.O 2224
> Chicago, Il  60625
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>


-- 
Jon Sudlow
3225 Foster Avenue
221 Sohlberg Hall
C.P.O 2224
Chicago, Il  60625
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From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Tue Feb  5 15:22:10 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 08:22:10 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] web2py 1.20 is out
In-Reply-To: <eb9a21ad0802050552u5837ddeeu5f800314b73b687@mail.gmail.com>
References: <775943.81913.qm@web34802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<C62331B0-7F70-46F3-B0FF-C1F64DCE98DD@cs.depaul.edu>
	<eb9a21ad0802050552u5837ddeeu5f800314b73b687@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <018B7A53-E730-4977-A620-120166B80CE4@cs.depaul.edu>

>
Thank you Jon,

I am giving a talk on web2py at UIC tomorrow in case anybody is  
interested.

http://lug.cs.uic.edu/

Massimo

From jeffh at dundeemt.com  Tue Feb  5 15:27:46 2008
From: jeffh at dundeemt.com (Jeff Hinrichs - DM&T)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 08:27:46 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] web2py 1.20 is out
In-Reply-To: <018B7A53-E730-4977-A620-120166B80CE4@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <775943.81913.qm@web34802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<C62331B0-7F70-46F3-B0FF-C1F64DCE98DD@cs.depaul.edu>
	<eb9a21ad0802050552u5837ddeeu5f800314b73b687@mail.gmail.com>
	<018B7A53-E730-4977-A620-120166B80CE4@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <5aaed53f0802050627t22715908va9d95a40109c39dd@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 5, 2008 8:22 AM, Massimo Di Pierro <mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
> >
> Thank you Jon,
>
> I am giving a talk on web2py at UIC tomorrow in case anybody is
> interested.
>
> http://lug.cs.uic.edu/
Any chance it will recorded for those of us unable to attend?

-jeff

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Tue Feb  5 16:22:06 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 09:22:06 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] web2py 1.20 is out
In-Reply-To: <5aaed53f0802050627t22715908va9d95a40109c39dd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <775943.81913.qm@web34802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<C62331B0-7F70-46F3-B0FF-C1F64DCE98DD@cs.depaul.edu>
	<eb9a21ad0802050552u5837ddeeu5f800314b73b687@mail.gmail.com>
	<018B7A53-E730-4977-A620-120166B80CE4@cs.depaul.edu>
	<5aaed53f0802050627t22715908va9d95a40109c39dd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5919375A-295E-4205-BF83-2DC2B0A55769@cs.depaul.edu>

I will ask. I do not know.

Massimo

On Feb 5, 2008, at 8:27 AM, Jeff Hinrichs - DM&T wrote:

> On Feb 5, 2008 8:22 AM, Massimo Di Pierro <mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu>  
> wrote:
>>>
>> Thank you Jon,
>>
>> I am giving a talk on web2py at UIC tomorrow in case anybody is
>> interested.
>>
>> http://lug.cs.uic.edu/
> Any chance it will recorded for those of us unable to attend?
>
> -jeff
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From maney at two14.net  Tue Feb  5 16:42:38 2008
From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 09:42:38 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] web2py 1.20 is out
In-Reply-To: <eb9a21ad0802041907y75ac5d5el1ba41dda261c3988@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D53FEAD9-89A5-45B1-9BB3-B2866B9E5FD3@cs.depaul.edu>
	<eb9a21ad0802041907y75ac5d5el1ba41dda261c3988@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080205154238.GA13309@furrr.two14.net>

On Mon, Feb 04, 2008 at 09:07:56PM -0600, Jon Sudlow wrote:
> With all these frameworks out, which one should you use. I'm swamped with
> Django, Ruby on Rails, Turbo Gears, Zope/Plone, when does it end???

It never ends.  There is no possibility of there ever being a perfect
framework - the better one suits a certain class of projects, the worse
it will be for some other projects.  Churn happens.

> Does anyone have any suggestions or experience to argue one framework over
> another?

The framework you want is the one which best suits your needs, modified
perhaps by considerations of the implementation language, supported
deployment methods (conversely, what's supported by the hosting
services you wish/need to run on), how active the development is (or
would you prefer more stability to more new features per year?), ...

For better or worse, Python has a plurality of different-shaped holes
rather than one square one into which all pegs must be pounded.

-- 
"What's so funny?  That I'm sitting on a deserted beach at night,
nibbling at gourmet meals, and rereading every book I've ever loved?
Can you think of anything more worthwhile?"  -- Michael Flynn


From maney at two14.net  Tue Feb  5 16:51:51 2008
From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 09:51:51 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] web2py 1.20 is out
In-Reply-To: <3db160680802041929j101cfa47v1e75dd167fd7e3e7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D53FEAD9-89A5-45B1-9BB3-B2866B9E5FD3@cs.depaul.edu>
	<eb9a21ad0802041907y75ac5d5el1ba41dda261c3988@mail.gmail.com>
	<3db160680802041929j101cfa47v1e75dd167fd7e3e7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080205155151.GB13309@furrr.two14.net>

On Mon, Feb 04, 2008 at 09:29:33PM -0600, Daniel Griffin wrote:
> notes. I would really like Prof. Di Pierro's input on this and why he went
> the way he did with web2py.

For pedagogical purposes, it can be very beneficial to pretend that
there are only square holes and pegs to match.  <wink>

> I have been trying to solve a much larger problem than any of these
> frameworks really prepares me for, namely working with creating a web
> front-end to a mature piece of enterprise software. Pylons has given me the
> most hope so far, but I think I am still going to end up writing a ton of
> boilerplate code.

Are there any frameworks that don't pretty much assume you're starting
from scratch?  I'd say that all of them that I've looked at for more
than the briefest glance leverage the assumption that the project is
all new (and needn't consider anyone accessing its data except through
the app built using the framework) as a hugely simplifying assumption -
only one shape of holes and pegs, once again.

-- 
Anyone who says you can have a lot of widely dispersed people hack
away on a complicated piece of code and avoid total anarchy has never
managed a software project.  -- Andy Tanenbaum


From korpios at korpios.com  Tue Feb  5 16:53:46 2008
From: korpios at korpios.com (Tom Tobin)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 09:53:46 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Django at The Onion
In-Reply-To: <47A7EE37.2010607@personnelware.com>
References: <D53FEAD9-89A5-45B1-9BB3-B2866B9E5FD3@cs.depaul.edu>
	<eb9a21ad0802041907y75ac5d5el1ba41dda261c3988@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf0b20a90802041940p5bd62caau69cfbcdb17b989d6@mail.gmail.com>
	<47A7EE37.2010607@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <bf0b20a90802050753l5129214em1a903c758f2ce6de@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/4/08, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:
> Oh, we so need to get 1200 copies of The Onion delivered to PyCon.  stuff it in
> all the bags.  (the bag stuffers will love me.)
>
> Can you make that happen?

I'm arranging to have a bunch of swag brought over for the Django
sprinters (shirts, a few copies of Our Dumb World to give away);
getting a bunch of print copies of the Onion newspaper shouldn't be
hard, as far as I know.  We *love* Django and Python.  ^_^

> Can you get a news crew to cover PyCon?
>
> Does Onion actually have crews?  (I kinda doubt it, but it seems like an
> undefined variable.)

No, they have writers.  ;-)  The comedy writers (for The Onion proper)
are in NYC, and the pop-culture reviewers (for the AV Club) are here
in Chicago.

From dgriff1 at gmail.com  Tue Feb  5 17:10:08 2008
From: dgriff1 at gmail.com (Daniel Griffin)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 10:10:08 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] web2py 1.20 is out
In-Reply-To: <20080205155151.GB13309@furrr.two14.net>
References: <D53FEAD9-89A5-45B1-9BB3-B2866B9E5FD3@cs.depaul.edu>
	<eb9a21ad0802041907y75ac5d5el1ba41dda261c3988@mail.gmail.com>
	<3db160680802041929j101cfa47v1e75dd167fd7e3e7@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080205155151.GB13309@furrr.two14.net>
Message-ID: <3db160680802050810tdff299bva9d01abaa0071448@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for elaborating on web2py, I am going to work through some of the
tutorials and see for myself.
Martin:
A few of the frameworks give a little info on legacy data set support. To me
a framework should do the following:

-Set you up for MVC
-Easy database connectivity and ORM
-Simple way to expose those models as forms, lists, etc.
-A template language.
-Ideally some helpers to work with AJAX, routes etc.

The big problem is the lack of easy forms and lists, it seems that there
should be some nice decorator style objects that would let you pop out a
variety of forms, from normal HTML forms to Ext style super forms.

But I am still new at web development(I am a C programmer by day), so I
might be wrong.

Dan

On Feb 5, 2008 9:51 AM, Martin Maney <maney at two14.net> wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 04, 2008 at 09:29:33PM -0600, Daniel Griffin wrote:
> > notes. I would really like Prof. Di Pierro's input on this and why he
> went
> > the way he did with web2py.
>
> For pedagogical purposes, it can be very beneficial to pretend that
> there are only square holes and pegs to match.  <wink>
>
> > I have been trying to solve a much larger problem than any of these
> > frameworks really prepares me for, namely working with creating a web
> > front-end to a mature piece of enterprise software. Pylons has given me
> the
> > most hope so far, but I think I am still going to end up writing a ton
> of
> > boilerplate code.
>
> Are there any frameworks that don't pretty much assume you're starting
> from scratch?  I'd say that all of them that I've looked at for more
> than the briefest glance leverage the assumption that the project is
> all new (and needn't consider anyone accessing its data except through
> the app built using the framework) as a hugely simplifying assumption -
> only one shape of holes and pegs, once again.
>
> --
> Anyone who says you can have a lot of widely dispersed people hack
> away on a complicated piece of code and avoid total anarchy has never
> managed a software project.  -- Andy Tanenbaum
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Tue Feb  5 17:21:09 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 10:21:09 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] web2py 1.20 is out
In-Reply-To: <3db160680802050810tdff299bva9d01abaa0071448@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D53FEAD9-89A5-45B1-9BB3-B2866B9E5FD3@cs.depaul.edu>
	<eb9a21ad0802041907y75ac5d5el1ba41dda261c3988@mail.gmail.com>
	<3db160680802041929j101cfa47v1e75dd167fd7e3e7@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080205155151.GB13309@furrr.two14.net>
	<3db160680802050810tdff299bva9d01abaa0071448@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <437C362E-950F-4051-8CC1-90757726D24F@cs.depaul.edu>

feel free to email the google group if you have questions.

Massimo


On Feb 5, 2008, at 10:10 AM, Daniel Griffin wrote:

> Thanks for elaborating on web2py, I am going to work through some  
> of the tutorials and see for myself.
>
> Martin:
> A few of the frameworks give a little info on legacy data set  
> support. To me a framework should do the following:
>
> -Set you up for MVC
> -Easy database connectivity and ORM
> -Simple way to expose those models as forms, lists, etc.
> -A template language.
> -Ideally some helpers to work with AJAX, routes etc.
>
> The big problem is the lack of easy forms and lists, it seems that  
> there should be some nice decorator style objects that would let  
> you pop out a variety of forms, from normal HTML forms to Ext style  
> super forms.
>
> But I am still new at web development(I am a C programmer by day),  
> so I might be wrong.
>
> Dan
>
> On Feb 5, 2008 9:51 AM, Martin Maney <maney at two14.net> wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 04, 2008 at 09:29:33PM -0600, Daniel Griffin wrote:
> > notes. I would really like Prof. Di Pierro's input on this and  
> why he went
> > the way he did with web2py.
>
> For pedagogical purposes, it can be very beneficial to pretend that
> there are only square holes and pegs to match.  <wink>
>
> > I have been trying to solve a much larger problem than any of these
> > frameworks really prepares me for, namely working with creating a  
> web
> > front-end to a mature piece of enterprise software. Pylons has  
> given me the
> > most hope so far, but I think I am still going to end up writing  
> a ton of
> > boilerplate code.
>
> Are there any frameworks that don't pretty much assume you're starting
> from scratch?  I'd say that all of them that I've looked at for more
> than the briefest glance leverage the assumption that the project is
> all new (and needn't consider anyone accessing its data except through
> the app built using the framework) as a hugely simplifying  
> assumption -
> only one shape of holes and pegs, once again.
>
> --
> Anyone who says you can have a lot of widely dispersed people hack
> away on a complicated piece of code and avoid total anarchy has never
> managed a software project.  -- Andy Tanenbaum
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
> <ATT00001.txt>

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From ianb at colorstudy.com  Tue Feb  5 17:52:26 2008
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 10:52:26 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] web2py 1.20 is out
In-Reply-To: <20080205155151.GB13309@furrr.two14.net>
References: <D53FEAD9-89A5-45B1-9BB3-B2866B9E5FD3@cs.depaul.edu>	<eb9a21ad0802041907y75ac5d5el1ba41dda261c3988@mail.gmail.com>	<3db160680802041929j101cfa47v1e75dd167fd7e3e7@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080205155151.GB13309@furrr.two14.net>
Message-ID: <47A8944A.8070109@colorstudy.com>

Martin Maney wrote:
> Are there any frameworks that don't pretty much assume you're starting
> from scratch?  I'd say that all of them that I've looked at for more
> than the briefest glance leverage the assumption that the project is
> all new (and needn't consider anyone accessing its data except through
> the app built using the framework) as a hugely simplifying assumption -
> only one shape of holes and pegs, once again.

SQLAlchemy and Storm are both generally flexible enough to handle legacy 
database schemas.  Paste includes several tools for proxying and calling 
subprocesses, which lets you treat an external web application as just 
another part of your application.

   Ian

From maney at two14.net  Tue Feb  5 19:11:40 2008
From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 12:11:40 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] web2py 1.20 is out
In-Reply-To: <47A8944A.8070109@colorstudy.com>
References: <D53FEAD9-89A5-45B1-9BB3-B2866B9E5FD3@cs.depaul.edu>
	<eb9a21ad0802041907y75ac5d5el1ba41dda261c3988@mail.gmail.com>
	<3db160680802041929j101cfa47v1e75dd167fd7e3e7@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080205155151.GB13309@furrr.two14.net>
	<47A8944A.8070109@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <20080205181140.GA13516@furrr.two14.net>

On Tue, Feb 05, 2008 at 10:52:26AM -0600, Ian Bicking wrote:
> Martin Maney wrote:
> > Are there any frameworks that don't pretty much assume you're starting
> > from scratch?  I'd say that all of them that I've looked at for more
> > than the briefest glance leverage the assumption that the project is
> > all new (and needn't consider anyone accessing its data except through
> > the app built using the framework) as a hugely simplifying assumption -
> > only one shape of holes and pegs, once again.
> 
> SQLAlchemy and Storm are both generally flexible enough to handle legacy 
> database schemas.  Paste includes several tools for proxying and calling 
> subprocesses, which lets you treat an external web application as just 
> another part of your application.

Yeah, I recall that SQLAlchemy was far less of a crippled compromise
than any other ORM I'd ever seen, but in itself it's hardly a web app
framework (and so it didn't usefully solve any of my immediate problems
- substituting its notation for existing SQL would have been little
more than make-work, and using it with the small Django app(let)s would
merely have broken the automagical admin and other stuff that make up
half of the reason Django is useful to me).  I don't remember having
heard of Storm before.

Hmmm, now what shall I do with this dodecahedral peg? ...

-- 
Vs lbh pna ernq guvf, lbh'er va ivbyngvba bs
gur Qvtvgny Zvyyraavhz Pbclevtug Npg.  -- anon.


From dgriff1 at gmail.com  Tue Feb  5 19:25:33 2008
From: dgriff1 at gmail.com (Daniel Griffin)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 12:25:33 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] web2py 1.20 is out
In-Reply-To: <20080205181140.GA13516@furrr.two14.net>
References: <D53FEAD9-89A5-45B1-9BB3-B2866B9E5FD3@cs.depaul.edu>
	<eb9a21ad0802041907y75ac5d5el1ba41dda261c3988@mail.gmail.com>
	<3db160680802041929j101cfa47v1e75dd167fd7e3e7@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080205155151.GB13309@furrr.two14.net>
	<47A8944A.8070109@colorstudy.com>
	<20080205181140.GA13516@furrr.two14.net>
Message-ID: <3db160680802051025q1fb70fb6pd1b624034762138d@mail.gmail.com>

Most of these frameworks are made or broken by their ORM, Active Record is
probably the biggest component of rails and incidentally the reason Rails
kinda sucks at legacy applications, they assume that every table has an
auto-incrementing int called "id". If you dont have that field you can
either change primary_key to the new one, then rip through all the generated
code fixing references or you can add a "surrogate" key.
The problem with surrogate keys is that the actual keys can lose meaning,
django tells you to add constraints and validation to try to maintain any
actual meaning. I maintain that you shouldnt need to change your tables to
make a front end work.

So really, the ORM generally makes or breaks legacy app support.

Dan

On Feb 5, 2008 12:11 PM, Martin Maney <maney at two14.net> wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 05, 2008 at 10:52:26AM -0600, Ian Bicking wrote:
> > Martin Maney wrote:
> > > Are there any frameworks that don't pretty much assume you're starting
> > > from scratch?  I'd say that all of them that I've looked at for more
> > > than the briefest glance leverage the assumption that the project is
> > > all new (and needn't consider anyone accessing its data except through
> > > the app built using the framework) as a hugely simplifying assumption
> -
> > > only one shape of holes and pegs, once again.
> >
> > SQLAlchemy and Storm are both generally flexible enough to handle legacy
> > database schemas.  Paste includes several tools for proxying and calling
> > subprocesses, which lets you treat an external web application as just
> > another part of your application.
>
> Yeah, I recall that SQLAlchemy was far less of a crippled compromise
> than any other ORM I'd ever seen, but in itself it's hardly a web app
> framework (and so it didn't usefully solve any of my immediate problems
> - substituting its notation for existing SQL would have been little
> more than make-work, and using it with the small Django app(let)s would
> merely have broken the automagical admin and other stuff that make up
> half of the reason Django is useful to me).  I don't remember having
> heard of Storm before.
>
> Hmmm, now what shall I do with this dodecahedral peg? ...
>
> --
> Vs lbh pna ernq guvf, lbh'er va ivbyngvba bs
> gur Qvtvgny Zvyyraavhz Pbclevtug Npg.  -- anon.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From goodmansond at gmail.com  Tue Feb  5 19:29:45 2008
From: goodmansond at gmail.com (DeanG)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 12:29:45 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Django at The Onion
In-Reply-To: <bf0b20a90802050753l5129214em1a903c758f2ce6de@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D53FEAD9-89A5-45B1-9BB3-B2866B9E5FD3@cs.depaul.edu>
	<eb9a21ad0802041907y75ac5d5el1ba41dda261c3988@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf0b20a90802041940p5bd62caau69cfbcdb17b989d6@mail.gmail.com>
	<47A7EE37.2010607@personnelware.com>
	<bf0b20a90802050753l5129214em1a903c758f2ce6de@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f5c6a5400802051029i7d52ec0dr342ece8d1d29c597@mail.gmail.com>

Is The Onion a PyCon sponsor?

On Feb 5, 2008 9:53 AM, Tom Tobin <korpios at korpios.com> wrote:
> On 2/4/08, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:
> > Oh, we so need to get 1200 copies of The Onion delivered to PyCon.  stuff it in
> > all the bags.  (the bag stuffers will love me.)
> >
> > Can you make that happen?
>
> I'm arranging to have a bunch of swag brought over for the Django
> sprinters (shirts, a few copies of Our Dumb World to give away);
> getting a bunch of print copies of the Onion newspaper shouldn't be
> hard, as far as I know.  We *love* Django and Python.  ^_^
>
> > Can you get a news crew to cover PyCon?
> >
> > Does Onion actually have crews?  (I kinda doubt it, but it seems like an
> > undefined variable.)
>
> No, they have writers.  ;-)  The comedy writers (for The Onion proper)
> are in NYC, and the pop-culture reviewers (for the AV Club) are here
> in Chicago.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From korpios at korpios.com  Tue Feb  5 19:51:18 2008
From: korpios at korpios.com (Tom Tobin)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 12:51:18 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Django at The Onion
In-Reply-To: <f5c6a5400802051029i7d52ec0dr342ece8d1d29c597@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D53FEAD9-89A5-45B1-9BB3-B2866B9E5FD3@cs.depaul.edu>
	<eb9a21ad0802041907y75ac5d5el1ba41dda261c3988@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf0b20a90802041940p5bd62caau69cfbcdb17b989d6@mail.gmail.com>
	<47A7EE37.2010607@personnelware.com>
	<bf0b20a90802050753l5129214em1a903c758f2ce6de@mail.gmail.com>
	<f5c6a5400802051029i7d52ec0dr342ece8d1d29c597@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bf0b20a90802051051r114462a5s98d565178069e515@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/5/08, DeanG <goodmansond at gmail.com> wrote:
> Is The Onion a PyCon sponsor?

No; maybe next year.  All I have for this year is swag for the Django
sprint.  ^_^  I only started here in December, and we'd need more time
to discuss / plan / etc.  Besides, by PyCon next year the new
Django-based project will have been live for several months, and there
might be lots of goodies related to that (a full presentation, more
swag, etc.).  ;-)

From carl at personnelware.com  Tue Feb  5 20:10:13 2008
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 13:10:13 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Django at The Onion
In-Reply-To: <bf0b20a90802050753l5129214em1a903c758f2ce6de@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D53FEAD9-89A5-45B1-9BB3-B2866B9E5FD3@cs.depaul.edu>	<eb9a21ad0802041907y75ac5d5el1ba41dda261c3988@mail.gmail.com>	<bf0b20a90802041940p5bd62caau69cfbcdb17b989d6@mail.gmail.com>	<47A7EE37.2010607@personnelware.com>
	<bf0b20a90802050753l5129214em1a903c758f2ce6de@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47A8B495.8040804@personnelware.com>

Tom Tobin wrote:
> On 2/4/08, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:
>> Oh, we so need to get 1200 copies of The Onion delivered to PyCon.  stuff it in
>> all the bags.  (the bag stuffers will love me.)
>>
>> Can you make that happen?
> 
> I'm arranging to have a bunch of swag brought over for the Django
> sprinters (shirts, a few copies of Our Dumb World to give away);
> getting a bunch of print copies of the Onion newspaper shouldn't be
> hard, as far as I know.  We *love* Django and Python.  ^_^
> 
>> Can you get a news crew to cover PyCon?
>>
>> Does Onion actually have crews?  (I kinda doubt it, but it seems like an
>> undefined variable.)
> 
> No, they have writers.  ;-)  The comedy writers (for The Onion proper)
> are in NYC,

They need to fold time and attend PyCon in the next few days.  Then come back 
and tell everyone about it.

Carl K

From skip at pobox.com  Tue Feb  5 20:20:24 2008
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 13:20:24 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Django at The Onion
In-Reply-To: <47A8B495.8040804@personnelware.com>
References: <D53FEAD9-89A5-45B1-9BB3-B2866B9E5FD3@cs.depaul.edu>
	<eb9a21ad0802041907y75ac5d5el1ba41dda261c3988@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf0b20a90802041940p5bd62caau69cfbcdb17b989d6@mail.gmail.com>
	<47A7EE37.2010607@personnelware.com>
	<bf0b20a90802050753l5129214em1a903c758f2ce6de@mail.gmail.com>
	<47A8B495.8040804@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <18344.46840.312759.464197@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>

>>>>> "Carl" == Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> writes:

    Carl> Tom Tobin wrote:

    >> No, they have writers.  ;-) The comedy writers (for The Onion proper)
    >> are in NYC,

    Carl> They need to fold time and attend PyCon in the next few days.
    Carl> Then come back and tell everyone about it.

Forget sponsorship.  Next year I think they need to do a keynote. ;-)

Skip

From maney at two14.net  Tue Feb  5 21:21:55 2008
From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 14:21:55 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] web2py 1.20 is out
In-Reply-To: <3db160680802051025q1fb70fb6pd1b624034762138d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D53FEAD9-89A5-45B1-9BB3-B2866B9E5FD3@cs.depaul.edu>
	<eb9a21ad0802041907y75ac5d5el1ba41dda261c3988@mail.gmail.com>
	<3db160680802041929j101cfa47v1e75dd167fd7e3e7@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080205155151.GB13309@furrr.two14.net>
	<47A8944A.8070109@colorstudy.com>
	<20080205181140.GA13516@furrr.two14.net>
	<3db160680802051025q1fb70fb6pd1b624034762138d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080205202155.GB13516@furrr.two14.net>

On Tue, Feb 05, 2008 at 12:25:33PM -0600, Daniel Griffin wrote:
> Most of these frameworks are made or broken by their ORM ...
> ... assume that every table has an auto-incrementing int called "id"
> ... problem with surrogate keys is that the actual keys can lose meaning
> ... django tells you to add constraints and validation ...

Yeah.  My short take is that ORMs are rooted in the desire to simplify
the data model so that people can work with it without needing to know
much about data modeling (let alone SQL).  And, like, say, Access, a
lot of useful things can be done adequately well within the limits of
this simplification.

(that short take is itself a useful, but not entirely correct or
complete, simplification.  just sayin')

-- 
I will unshutter my eyes
    and go back to the scene.
I will open my heart to a blank page
    and interview the witnesses.
                        John M. Ford


From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Tue Feb  5 21:39:43 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 14:39:43 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] web2py 1.20 is out
In-Reply-To: <20080205202155.GB13516@furrr.two14.net>
References: <D53FEAD9-89A5-45B1-9BB3-B2866B9E5FD3@cs.depaul.edu>
	<eb9a21ad0802041907y75ac5d5el1ba41dda261c3988@mail.gmail.com>
	<3db160680802041929j101cfa47v1e75dd167fd7e3e7@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080205155151.GB13309@furrr.two14.net>	<47A8944A.8070109@colorstudy.com>
	<20080205181140.GA13516@furrr.two14.net>
	<3db160680802051025q1fb70fb6pd1b624034762138d@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080205202155.GB13516@furrr.two14.net>
Message-ID: <0C302127-FAD1-44A5-8B4D-D12BD9C1A3D0@cs.depaul.edu>

The web2py ORM has this "limitation":

> assume that every table has an auto-incrementing int called "id"

It is easy to ALTER + UPDATE any existing database to be compliant.

Some people think that the job of a framework should let developer do  
everything. Other people think that the framework should try to force  
the developer to follow good practice.

I believe it is good practice for DB tables to have a unique  
autoincrement id field and that is why web2py requires it. This  
"limitation" make the table portable across multiple back-end databases.

Massimo

From ianb at colorstudy.com  Tue Feb  5 21:42:51 2008
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 14:42:51 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] web2py 1.20 is out
In-Reply-To: <20080205181140.GA13516@furrr.two14.net>
References: <D53FEAD9-89A5-45B1-9BB3-B2866B9E5FD3@cs.depaul.edu>	<eb9a21ad0802041907y75ac5d5el1ba41dda261c3988@mail.gmail.com>	<3db160680802041929j101cfa47v1e75dd167fd7e3e7@mail.gmail.com>	<20080205155151.GB13309@furrr.two14.net>	<47A8944A.8070109@colorstudy.com>
	<20080205181140.GA13516@furrr.two14.net>
Message-ID: <47A8CA4B.1080805@colorstudy.com>

Martin Maney wrote:
> Yeah, I recall that SQLAlchemy was far less of a crippled compromise
> than any other ORM I'd ever seen, but in itself it's hardly a web app
> framework (and so it didn't usefully solve any of my immediate problems
> - substituting its notation for existing SQL would have been little
> more than make-work, and using it with the small Django app(let)s would
> merely have broken the automagical admin and other stuff that make up
> half of the reason Django is useful to me).  I don't remember having
> heard of Storm before.

There's recent work on making Django-like admin stuff with SQLAlchemy, here:
   http://code.google.com/p/dbsprockets/

It's harder to make interfaces like this when the model isn't as 
constrained.  There might be some Elixir-specific stuff too (Elixir is a 
wrapper around SQLAlchemy for creating models more like Django or 
SQLObject).

   Ian

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Tue Feb  5 23:29:00 2008
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 16:29:00 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Valentines?
Message-ID: <3096c19d0802051429l6ac81769r7d079151e9672a12@mail.gmail.com>

We're meeting next week on Valentine's.  Does that make anyone not
want to come?  Maybe we should pull it to Wednesday?

Opinions?

Chris

From joshua.mcadams at gmail.com  Tue Feb  5 23:33:28 2008
From: joshua.mcadams at gmail.com (Joshua McAdams)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 16:33:28 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Valentines?
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0802051429l6ac81769r7d079151e9672a12@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0802051429l6ac81769r7d079151e9672a12@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49d805d70802051433o7a1920bft768bc70ad6025ff6@mail.gmail.com>

> We're meeting next week on Valentine's.  Does that make anyone not
> want to come?  Maybe we should pull it to Wednesday?

Wednesday puts Performics as a meeting location in jeopardy because
I'll be mid-air during the meeting time.

From cwebber at imagescape.com  Tue Feb  5 23:37:05 2008
From: cwebber at imagescape.com (Christopher Allan Webber)
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 16:37:05 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Valentines?
In-Reply-To: <49d805d70802051433o7a1920bft768bc70ad6025ff6@mail.gmail.com>
	(Joshua McAdams's message of "Tue, 5 Feb 2008 16:33:28 -0600")
References: <3096c19d0802051429l6ac81769r7d079151e9672a12@mail.gmail.com>
	<49d805d70802051433o7a1920bft768bc70ad6025ff6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6y7ihjrpwu.fsf@imagescape.com>

If I bring chocolate hearts will that encourage people to come?  Maybe
some of those awful earwaxy heart candies too?  (what are those
called?)

"Joshua McAdams" <joshua.mcadams at gmail.com> writes:

>> We're meeting next week on Valentine's.  Does that make anyone not
>> want to come?  Maybe we should pull it to Wednesday?
>
> Wednesday puts Performics as a meeting location in jeopardy because
> I'll be mid-air during the meeting time.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From dgriff1 at gmail.com  Tue Feb  5 23:37:35 2008
From: dgriff1 at gmail.com (Daniel Griffin)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 16:37:35 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Valentines?
In-Reply-To: <49d805d70802051433o7a1920bft768bc70ad6025ff6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0802051429l6ac81769r7d079151e9672a12@mail.gmail.com>
	<49d805d70802051433o7a1920bft768bc70ad6025ff6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3db160680802051437y53b436c1k63fb156a97c61a2f@mail.gmail.com>

I am doing the whole valentines day thing friday, so I am in. I would really
enjoy talking to some people who have experience with Pylons/Django/Web2Py.
Dan

On Feb 5, 2008 4:33 PM, Joshua McAdams <joshua.mcadams at gmail.com> wrote:

> > We're meeting next week on Valentine's.  Does that make anyone not
> > want to come?  Maybe we should pull it to Wednesday?
>
> Wednesday puts Performics as a meeting location in jeopardy because
> I'll be mid-air during the meeting time.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From ianb at colorstudy.com  Tue Feb  5 23:38:05 2008
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 16:38:05 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Valentines?
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0802051429l6ac81769r7d079151e9672a12@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0802051429l6ac81769r7d079151e9672a12@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47A8E54D.6090101@colorstudy.com>

Chris McAvoy wrote:
> We're meeting next week on Valentine's.  Does that make anyone not
> want to come?  Maybe we should pull it to Wednesday?

Did not realize this.  Yes, that is a problem for me.

   Ian

From carl at personnelware.com  Tue Feb  5 23:40:54 2008
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 16:40:54 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Valentines?
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0802051429l6ac81769r7d079151e9672a12@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0802051429l6ac81769r7d079151e9672a12@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47A8E5F6.8030406@personnelware.com>

Chris McAvoy wrote:
> We're meeting next week on Valentine's.  Does that make anyone not
> want to come?  Maybe we should pull it to Wednesday?
> 

To late to mess with the date.   it isn't fair to those that have made 
arrangements to be there.  like the PyCon AV crew :)

Carl K



From MDiPierro at cti.depaul.edu  Tue Feb  5 23:40:56 2008
From: MDiPierro at cti.depaul.edu (DiPierro, Massimo)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 16:40:56 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Valentines?
In-Reply-To: <3db160680802051437y53b436c1k63fb156a97c61a2f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0802051429l6ac81769r7d079151e9672a12@mail.gmail.com>
	<49d805d70802051433o7a1920bft768bc70ad6025ff6@mail.gmail.com>,
	<3db160680802051437y53b436c1k63fb156a97c61a2f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C1AA20CAC1E41647BFF1D41215EDD4756F31096A15@wagner.cti.depaul.edu>

Sorry I teach on Thursdays and if I did not my wife would want me to be home.

Massimo

________________________________
From: chicago-bounces at python.org [chicago-bounces at python.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Griffin [dgriff1 at gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 4:37 PM
To: The Chicago Python Users Group
Subject: Re: [Chicago] Valentines?

I am doing the whole valentines day thing friday, so I am in. I would really enjoy talking to some people who have experience with Pylons/Django/Web2Py.

Dan

On Feb 5, 2008 4:33 PM, Joshua McAdams <joshua.mcadams at gmail.com<mailto:joshua.mcadams at gmail.com>> wrote:
> We're meeting next week on Valentine's.  Does that make anyone not
> want to come?  Maybe we should pull it to Wednesday?

Wednesday puts Performics as a meeting location in jeopardy because
I'll be mid-air during the meeting time.
_______________________________________________
Chicago mailing list
Chicago at python.org<mailto:Chicago at python.org>
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From paulsmith at pobox.com  Tue Feb  5 23:49:46 2008
From: paulsmith at pobox.com (Paul Smith)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 16:49:46 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Valentines?
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0802051429l6ac81769r7d079151e9672a12@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0802051429l6ac81769r7d079151e9672a12@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8c58fcec0802051449h4f6048a4jb3554f6c944f5a3d@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 5, 2008 4:29 PM, Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:

> We're meeting next week on Valentine's.  Does that make anyone not
> want to come?  Maybe we should pull it to Wednesday?


I'm +1 for Thursday. What did St. Valentine ever do for me?

Cheers,
-Paul

-- 
Paul Smith
http://www.pauladamsmith.com/
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From MDiPierro at cti.depaul.edu  Tue Feb  5 23:49:49 2008
From: MDiPierro at cti.depaul.edu (DiPierro, Massimo)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 16:49:49 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Valentines?
In-Reply-To: <3db160680802051437y53b436c1k63fb156a97c61a2f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0802051429l6ac81769r7d079151e9672a12@mail.gmail.com>
	<49d805d70802051433o7a1920bft768bc70ad6025ff6@mail.gmail.com>,
	<3db160680802051437y53b436c1k63fb156a97c61a2f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C1AA20CAC1E41647BFF1D41215EDD4756F31096A19@wagner.cti.depaul.edu>

btw Dan,

I am in my DePaul office (243 S Wabash room 712)  Tue and Thu and I have office hourse 4-5:30pm and 9-10pm.

You are always welcome to stop by for questions, just let me know in advance.

Massimo

________________________________
From: chicago-bounces at python.org [chicago-bounces at python.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Griffin [dgriff1 at gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 4:37 PM
To: The Chicago Python Users Group
Subject: Re: [Chicago] Valentines?

I am doing the whole valentines day thing friday, so I am in. I would really enjoy talking to some people who have experience with Pylons/Django/Web2Py.

Dan

On Feb 5, 2008 4:33 PM, Joshua McAdams <joshua.mcadams at gmail.com<mailto:joshua.mcadams at gmail.com>> wrote:
> We're meeting next week on Valentine's.  Does that make anyone not
> want to come?  Maybe we should pull it to Wednesday?

Wednesday puts Performics as a meeting location in jeopardy because
I'll be mid-air during the meeting time.
_______________________________________________
Chicago mailing list
Chicago at python.org<mailto:Chicago at python.org>
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From korpios at korpios.com  Tue Feb  5 23:52:07 2008
From: korpios at korpios.com (Tom Tobin)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 16:52:07 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Valentines?
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0802051429l6ac81769r7d079151e9672a12@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0802051429l6ac81769r7d079151e9672a12@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bf0b20a90802051452w228136a8ud3919282dadd7895@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/5/08, Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:
> We're meeting next week on Valentine's.  Does that make anyone not
> want to come?  Maybe we should pull it to Wednesday?

My SO lovingly marked Valentines off on the calendar with "Better not
forget, fuckface" ... I then marked the 13th off with "Get so drunk
that I forget the next day".  ^_^  Either way, V-day is something of a
no-go for me (and it would be my first time attending).  :-/

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Tue Feb  5 23:52:48 2008
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 16:52:48 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Valentines?
In-Reply-To: <8c58fcec0802051449h4f6048a4jb3554f6c944f5a3d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0802051429l6ac81769r7d079151e9672a12@mail.gmail.com>
	<8c58fcec0802051449h4f6048a4jb3554f6c944f5a3d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0802051452k5380f3ebka6b1b40bfb74297d@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 5, 2008 4:49 PM, Paul Smith <paulsmith at pobox.com> wrote:
> On Feb 5, 2008 4:29 PM, Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > We're meeting next week on Valentine's.  Does that make anyone not
> > want to come?  Maybe we should pull it to Wednesday?
>
> I'm +1 for Thursday. What did St. Valentine ever do for me?

As this is the presenter, that's pretty much a +2.

I think we'll probably go forward...sorry to those that this crimps.
It's just going to be too difficult to switch gears.

I just wanted...to throw it out there...not sure to what end.

But hey, consider it thrown.

Chris

On Feb 5, 2008 4:49 PM, Paul Smith <paulsmith at pobox.com> wrote:
> On Feb 5, 2008 4:29 PM, Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > We're meeting next week on Valentine's.  Does that make anyone not
> > want to come?  Maybe we should pull it to Wednesday?
>
> I'm +1 for Thursday. What did St. Valentine ever do for me?
>
> Cheers,
> -Paul
>
> --
> Paul Smith
> http://www.pauladamsmith.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>

From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com  Tue Feb  5 23:57:09 2008
From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 16:57:09 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Valentines?
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0802051452k5380f3ebka6b1b40bfb74297d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0802051429l6ac81769r7d079151e9672a12@mail.gmail.com>
	<8c58fcec0802051449h4f6048a4jb3554f6c944f5a3d@mail.gmail.com>
	<3096c19d0802051452k5380f3ebka6b1b40bfb74297d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b571660a0802051457s3b016a23q7ef65be30eb1be2d@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 5, 2008 4:52 PM, Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > We're meeting next week on Valentine's.  Does that make anyone not
> > > want to come?  Maybe we should pull it to Wednesday?

how about we invite our significant others?  problem solved!

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Tue Feb  5 23:59:36 2008
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 16:59:36 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Valentines?
In-Reply-To: <b571660a0802051457s3b016a23q7ef65be30eb1be2d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0802051429l6ac81769r7d079151e9672a12@mail.gmail.com>
	<8c58fcec0802051449h4f6048a4jb3554f6c944f5a3d@mail.gmail.com>
	<3096c19d0802051452k5380f3ebka6b1b40bfb74297d@mail.gmail.com>
	<b571660a0802051457s3b016a23q7ef65be30eb1be2d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0802051459g5adf12bag49a54187ef7b715e@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 5, 2008 4:57 PM, Kumar McMillan <kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 5, 2008 4:52 PM, Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > We're meeting next week on Valentine's.  Does that make anyone not
> > > > want to come?  Maybe we should pull it to Wednesday?
>
> how about we invite our significant others?  problem solved!

"How about for Valentine's day, we go to a Python meeting"

It works on a bunch of levels.

Childish, dirty levels.

Chris

PS.  Clearly this will unleash a flood of disgusting creepy emails.  Sorry.

From jason at panopta.com  Wed Feb  6 00:20:28 2008
From: jason at panopta.com (Jason Abate)
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 17:20:28 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] web2py 1.20 is out
In-Reply-To: <0C302127-FAD1-44A5-8B4D-D12BD9C1A3D0@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <D53FEAD9-89A5-45B1-9BB3-B2866B9E5FD3@cs.depaul.edu>	<eb9a21ad0802041907y75ac5d5el1ba41dda261c3988@mail.gmail.com>	<3db160680802041929j101cfa47v1e75dd167fd7e3e7@mail.gmail.com>	<20080205155151.GB13309@furrr.two14.net>	<47A8944A.8070109@colorstudy.com>	<20080205181140.GA13516@furrr.two14.net>	<3db160680802051025q1fb70fb6pd1b624034762138d@mail.gmail.com>	<20080205202155.GB13516@furrr.two14.net>
	<0C302127-FAD1-44A5-8B4D-D12BD9C1A3D0@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <47A8EF3C.1030502@panopta.com>

Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
> It is easy to ALTER + UPDATE any existing database to be compliant.
>   
This is true as long as you don't have other applications that are 
accessing the same underlying database - I've worked on several systems 
where a new web front end was being built to run in parallel with 
existing applications.  In this case, database schema modifications are 
possible but much more involved.

I think this points to one of the benefits of the Python world when it 
comes to web frameworks - there isn't a "one-size-fits-all" default 
solution that everyone uses.  This means some fragmentation of the 
community but solutions that better fit the specific problem you're 
dealing with.

-jason

--
Jason Abate
Panopta: We see it all
jason at panopta.com
http://www.panopta.com



From verisimilidude at gmail.com  Wed Feb  6 00:56:03 2008
From: verisimilidude at gmail.com (Phil Robare)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 17:56:03 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Talk proposal for Feb: mapping
In-Reply-To: <a68ced640802010848u1f89fde5h8ab4733ce6373f76@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8c58fcec0801191844i7be32c52s6c42124447308167@mail.gmail.com>
	<a68ced640802010848u1f89fde5h8ab4733ce6373f76@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6ad48f980802051556mee00a70i5b88e8bcc7cccdff@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 1, 2008 10:48 AM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
> On Jan 19, 2008 8:44 PM, Paul Smith <paulsmith at pobox.com> wrote:
>
> > If there's any interest in this topic, I'd like to give a quick
> > tutorial in setting up a mapping solution from scratch with Mapnik,
> > Django, and OpenLayers.
> >
> > Looking forward to the meeting and to PyCon,
>
> I am psyched about this meeting and I was wondering if anyone from
> Navteq is in our group. If not, does anyone know if they use python?

I was at Navteq for a while.  My use of python was solely on the basis
of side projects, although I did use it to access the database and
draw some pretty maps of where updates were being applied and such.
The web stuff and the backend data management when I left (4 years
ago) were all being done in Java/Oracle, with the embedded stuff being
done in C.  Nothing I have heard since I left has indicated any
change.  They have really become much more oriented to marketing what
they have than creating new extensions.  3D data base integration,
satellite integration, street level photos - all the things that you
now see on Google Maps - were suggested before I left and not acted
upon. Integration with advertisers was more actively pursued.

Maybe the Nokia buyout will change things but I doubt it.  I see even
more cell phone location aware advertising in their future.

Phil

From skip at pobox.com  Wed Feb  6 02:03:20 2008
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 19:03:20 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Valentines?
In-Reply-To: <b571660a0802051457s3b016a23q7ef65be30eb1be2d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0802051429l6ac81769r7d079151e9672a12@mail.gmail.com>
	<8c58fcec0802051449h4f6048a4jb3554f6c944f5a3d@mail.gmail.com>
	<3096c19d0802051452k5380f3ebka6b1b40bfb74297d@mail.gmail.com>
	<b571660a0802051457s3b016a23q7ef65be30eb1be2d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <18345.1880.289362.265655@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>


    Kumar> how about we invite our significant others?  problem solved!

Oh yeah, just what my wife wants to do on Valentine's Day...

Skip

From tim_sw2000 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb  6 01:13:47 2008
From: tim_sw2000 at yahoo.com (Tim Wee)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 16:13:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Chicago] will ChiPy be videorecorded again?
Message-ID: <375086.60345.qm@web52908.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I've been assigned to a West Coast project, so won't be able to go, but I really like the topics for this month's ChiPy.
 
Timothy Wee
(612)889-1185
2470 N Clark St #904
Chicago, IL 60614 
http://greystark.blogspot.com/





      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
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From bray at sent.com  Wed Feb  6 02:24:17 2008
From: bray at sent.com (bray at sent.com)
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 19:24:17 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Valentines?
In-Reply-To: <18345.1880.289362.265655@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
References: <3096c19d0802051429l6ac81769r7d079151e9672a12@mail.gmail.com>
	<8c58fcec0802051449h4f6048a4jb3554f6c944f5a3d@mail.gmail.com>
	<3096c19d0802051452k5380f3ebka6b1b40bfb74297d@mail.gmail.com>
	<b571660a0802051457s3b016a23q7ef65be30eb1be2d@mail.gmail.com>
	<18345.1880.289362.265655@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
Message-ID: <1202261057.11731.1235292381@webmail.messagingengine.com>


On Tue, 5 Feb 2008 19:03:20 -0600, skip at pobox.com said:
> 
>     Kumar> how about we invite our significant others?  problem solved!
> 
> Oh yeah, just what my wife wants to do on Valentine's Day...
> 
> Skip

My wife would come to ChiPy meetings in its early stages. And I bet, she
is still on this list... Hi Honey, love you! BTW, do you want to come to
another ChiPy Meeting that happens to fall on Valentines day?

On second thought, Lets reschedule to date.  If we do, I promise to
video record. Otherwise, I may not make it there.

Brian Ray
bray at sent.com
http://kazavoo.com/blog



From carl at personnelware.com  Wed Feb  6 05:45:16 2008
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 22:45:16 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] will ChiPy be videorecorded again?
In-Reply-To: <375086.60345.qm@web52908.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <375086.60345.qm@web52908.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <47A93B5C.1030905@personnelware.com>

Tim Wee wrote:
> 
> I've been assigned to a West Coast project, so won't be able to go, but 
> I really like the topics for this month's ChiPy.

Very likely.  I am using the meeting as a trial run for recording 100 hours of 
PyCon.  The speaker will have a mic strapped to his head, the audience will be 
nudged to use the audience mic, the vga will be captured in it's native res, a 
video camera will record the live action and also be patched into the sound 
board.  the vga stream will also have an audio track, for both redundancy and to 
help sync the 2 streams when someone spends a few hours at the editing helm.

Carl K

From anthony.r.rubin at gmail.com  Wed Feb  6 21:40:46 2008
From: anthony.r.rubin at gmail.com (Anthony Rubin)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 14:40:46 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] PyCon BeerBoF
Message-ID: <4cf38240802061240s444f9428x24f4fc8cb9dd5370@mail.gmail.com>

I noticed this BoF listed in the Wiki with no further information. Is
anyone here heading this up? I can be of assistance.

Anthony
Chicago, IL

From pfein at pobox.com  Wed Feb  6 21:52:30 2008
From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 15:52:30 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] PyCon BeerBoF
In-Reply-To: <4cf38240802061240s444f9428x24f4fc8cb9dd5370@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4cf38240802061240s444f9428x24f4fc8cb9dd5370@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200802061552.30789.pfein@pobox.com>

On Wednesday February 6 2008 3:40:46 pm Anthony Rubin wrote:
> I noticed this BoF listed in the Wiki with no further information. Is
> anyone here heading this up? I can be of assistance.

Yeah, that's my project.  I had pretty much planned to say "meet in the hotel 
lobby at 8 on Saturday night and we'll go for beers."

--Pete

-- 
Peter Fein   ||   773-575-0694   ||   pfein at pobox.com
http://www.pobox.com/~pfein/   ||   PGP: 0xCCF6AE6B
irc: pfein at freenode.net   ||   jabber: peter.fein at gmail.com

From tcp at mac.com  Wed Feb  6 21:53:30 2008
From: tcp at mac.com (Ted Pollari)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 12:53:30 -0800
Subject: [Chicago] PyCon BeerBoF
In-Reply-To: <200802061552.30789.pfein@pobox.com>
References: <4cf38240802061240s444f9428x24f4fc8cb9dd5370@mail.gmail.com>
	<200802061552.30789.pfein@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <620EDFC0-4F15-4956-9CA6-C1263ED612C1@mac.com>


On Feb 6, 2008, at 12:52 PM, Pete wrote:

> On Wednesday February 6 2008 3:40:46 pm Anthony Rubin wrote:
>> I noticed this BoF listed in the Wiki with no further information. Is
>> anyone here heading this up? I can be of assistance.
>
> Yeah, that's my project.  I had pretty much planned to say "meet in  
> the hotel
> lobby at 8 on Saturday night and we'll go for beers."
>
> --Pete


Got a plan for the where?



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Feb  6 21:59:47 2008
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2008 14:59:47 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] PyCon BeerBoF
In-Reply-To: <200802061552.30789.pfein@pobox.com>
References: <4cf38240802061240s444f9428x24f4fc8cb9dd5370@mail.gmail.com>
	<200802061552.30789.pfein@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <47AA1FC3.5020600@colorstudy.com>

Pete wrote:
> On Wednesday February 6 2008 3:40:46 pm Anthony Rubin wrote:
>> I noticed this BoF listed in the Wiki with no further information. Is
>> anyone here heading this up? I can be of assistance.
> 
> Yeah, that's my project.  I had pretty much planned to say "meet in the hotel 
> lobby at 8 on Saturday night and we'll go for beers."

If this turns out to be popular -- and why wouldn't it? -- then that 
seems a bit chaotic.

I thought it could work well if we told everyone to go someplace, 
perhaps someplace where there are several bars so that everyone can be 
accommodated.  A bar hop, if you will.  I dunno if there's someplace 
near the conference that would work, otherwise someplace on the Blue 
Line would be good.

   Ian

From anthony.r.rubin at gmail.com  Wed Feb  6 22:16:54 2008
From: anthony.r.rubin at gmail.com (Anthony Rubin)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 15:16:54 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] PyCon BeerBoF
In-Reply-To: <47AA1FC3.5020600@colorstudy.com>
References: <4cf38240802061240s444f9428x24f4fc8cb9dd5370@mail.gmail.com>
	<200802061552.30789.pfein@pobox.com> <47AA1FC3.5020600@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <4cf38240802061316r2fdc2bbfo955597d1b73b518d@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 6, 2008 2:59 PM, Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
> Pete wrote:
> > Yeah, that's my project.  I had pretty much planned to say "meet in the hotel
> > lobby at 8 on Saturday night and we'll go for beers."
>
> If this turns out to be popular -- and why wouldn't it? -- then that
> seems a bit chaotic.
>
> I thought it could work well if we told everyone to go someplace,
> perhaps someplace where there are several bars so that everyone can be
> accommodated.  A bar hop, if you will.  I dunno if there's someplace
> near the conference that would work, otherwise someplace on the Blue
> Line would be good.
>
>    Ian
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

In my mind there are only two choices if you want a good Chicago
brewery: Piece and Goose Island. Piece actually has great beer, great
New Haven style pizza and is close to the Damen blue line stop. Goose
Island has a few great brews and a lot of mediocre ones. Their food is
also nothing special and their locations aren't terribly close to the
blue line (wouldn't be bad by cab, but I typically walk everywhere).

There are also a lot of bars in Chicago with great beer selections. At
the top of the list is Hopleaf. Map Room would be a close second, and
they have a better beer selection, but Hopleaf has amazing food.
Unfortunately Hopleaf is not close to the blue line. Map Room isn't
far from the Western stop. Map Room also isn't terribly far from
Piece. That entire area has plenty of bars and is probably your best
bet.

Anthony

From pfein at pobox.com  Wed Feb  6 22:19:12 2008
From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 16:19:12 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] PyCon BeerBoF
In-Reply-To: <47AA1FC3.5020600@colorstudy.com>
References: <4cf38240802061240s444f9428x24f4fc8cb9dd5370@mail.gmail.com>
	<200802061552.30789.pfein@pobox.com>
	<47AA1FC3.5020600@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <200802061619.12388.pfein@pobox.com>

On Wednesday February 6 2008 3:59:47 pm Ian Bicking wrote:
> Pete wrote:
> > On Wednesday February 6 2008 3:40:46 pm Anthony Rubin wrote:
> >> I noticed this BoF listed in the Wiki with no further information. Is
> >> anyone here heading this up? I can be of assistance.
> >
> > Yeah, that's my project.  I had pretty much planned to say "meet in the
> > hotel lobby at 8 on Saturday night and we'll go for beers."
>
> If this turns out to be popular -- and why wouldn't it? -- then that
> seems a bit chaotic.
>
> I thought it could work well if we told everyone to go someplace,
> perhaps someplace where there are several bars so that everyone can be
> accommodated.  A bar hop, if you will.  I dunno if there's someplace
> near the conference that would work, otherwise someplace on the Blue
> Line would be good.

Map Room's reasonably close to the Blue Line... lots of other bars nearby.

--Pete

-- 
Peter Fein   ||   773-575-0694   ||   pfein at pobox.com
http://www.pobox.com/~pfein/   ||   PGP: 0xCCF6AE6B
irc: pfein at freenode.net   ||   jabber: peter.fein at gmail.com

From anthony.r.rubin at gmail.com  Wed Feb  6 22:23:50 2008
From: anthony.r.rubin at gmail.com (Anthony Rubin)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 15:23:50 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] PyCon BeerBoF
In-Reply-To: <4cf38240802061316r2fdc2bbfo955597d1b73b518d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4cf38240802061240s444f9428x24f4fc8cb9dd5370@mail.gmail.com>
	<200802061552.30789.pfein@pobox.com> <47AA1FC3.5020600@colorstudy.com>
	<4cf38240802061316r2fdc2bbfo955597d1b73b518d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4cf38240802061323x72dc97bpd658739c3fd6314d@mail.gmail.com>

I took a look through my stash of restaurant bookmarks and realized
that Jerry's is also close by (the Wicker Park location):

http://www.jerryssandwiches.com/Menus.htm

Links for previously mentioned bars:

http://www.piecechicago.com/
http://www.maproom.com/

Anthony

From tcp at mac.com  Wed Feb  6 22:27:06 2008
From: tcp at mac.com (Ted Pollari)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 13:27:06 -0800
Subject: [Chicago] PyCon BeerBoF
In-Reply-To: <4cf38240802061316r2fdc2bbfo955597d1b73b518d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4cf38240802061240s444f9428x24f4fc8cb9dd5370@mail.gmail.com>
	<200802061552.30789.pfein@pobox.com>
	<47AA1FC3.5020600@colorstudy.com>
	<4cf38240802061316r2fdc2bbfo955597d1b73b518d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <584923AD-F23F-4F3C-8816-6E60A4CC4E9E@mac.com>


On Feb 6, 2008, at 1:16 PM, Anthony Rubin wrote:

> In my mind there are only two choices if you want a good Chicago
> brewery: Piece and Goose Island. Piece actually has great beer, great
> New Haven style pizza and is close to the Damen blue line stop.


Piece had some of the worst pizza, worst beer and worst service I've  
experienced.  I'd probably not attend if that was the venue...

I'd be a huge fan of hitting Goose Island, the Map Room, the Hopleaf,  
or any other well established local pub.  If I had to pick one that  
was emblematic of Chicago, it'd surely be Goose Island.  Both  
locations aren't too far from train stops, so it'd be workable...


-t

From tcp at mac.com  Wed Feb  6 22:29:51 2008
From: tcp at mac.com (Ted Pollari)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 13:29:51 -0800
Subject: [Chicago] PyCon BeerBoF
In-Reply-To: <200802061619.12388.pfein@pobox.com>
References: <4cf38240802061240s444f9428x24f4fc8cb9dd5370@mail.gmail.com>
	<200802061552.30789.pfein@pobox.com>
	<47AA1FC3.5020600@colorstudy.com>
	<200802061619.12388.pfein@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <14208382-0C62-4779-BC3C-AECDDBB00A8C@mac.com>


On Feb 6, 2008, at 1:19 PM, Pete wrote:

>
> Map Room's reasonably close to the Blue Line... lots of other bars  
> nearby.
>
> --Pete


I'd vote for this, but realize, the map room on a Saturday evening  
will be packed without a bunch of Python enthusiasts crowding in...

What about doing an earlier in the week option, say Thursday night?

-t

From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Feb  6 22:31:20 2008
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2008 15:31:20 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] PyCon BeerBoF
In-Reply-To: <4cf38240802061316r2fdc2bbfo955597d1b73b518d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4cf38240802061240s444f9428x24f4fc8cb9dd5370@mail.gmail.com>	<200802061552.30789.pfein@pobox.com>
	<47AA1FC3.5020600@colorstudy.com>
	<4cf38240802061316r2fdc2bbfo955597d1b73b518d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47AA2728.20905@colorstudy.com>

Anthony Rubin wrote:
> There are also a lot of bars in Chicago with great beer selections. At
> the top of the list is Hopleaf. Map Room would be a close second, and
> they have a better beer selection, but Hopleaf has amazing food.
> Unfortunately Hopleaf is not close to the blue line. Map Room isn't
> far from the Western stop. Map Room also isn't terribly far from
> Piece. That entire area has plenty of bars and is probably your best
> bet.

The Hopleaf is also *tiny* (and already really crowded).  What if 100 
people show up for this?  That doesn't seem like an unreasonable number; 
PloneConf (300ish attendees) had a bar hop and I think there was at 
least 40 people who came.

If there are enough decent places by the Western stop (Western on the 
Blue Line, I assume you mean) then that could be good.  Ideally we could 
provide people with directions and a list of bars, and then people can 
get there on their own in small groups (coordinating travel for more 
than a small group of people is pretty impossible too).  If we encourage 
people to wear Python clothing then people can find each other.

I think we need a list of bars too, since if you don't know the streets 
at all you are just as likely to wander off down a residential street as 
you are to get to the next bar.

   Ian

From tcp at mac.com  Wed Feb  6 22:34:41 2008
From: tcp at mac.com (Ted Pollari)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 13:34:41 -0800
Subject: [Chicago] PyCon BeerBoF
In-Reply-To: <47AA2728.20905@colorstudy.com>
References: <4cf38240802061240s444f9428x24f4fc8cb9dd5370@mail.gmail.com>
	<200802061552.30789.pfein@pobox.com>
	<47AA1FC3.5020600@colorstudy.com>
	<4cf38240802061316r2fdc2bbfo955597d1b73b518d@mail.gmail.com>
	<47AA2728.20905@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <EEFFC26D-DF56-4818-9563-10F902EAFFED@mac.com>


On Feb 6, 2008, at 1:31 PM, Ian Bicking wrote:

> The Hopleaf is also *tiny* (and already really crowded).  What if 100
> people show up for this?  That doesn't seem like an unreasonable  
> number;
> PloneConf (300ish attendees) had a bar hop and I think there was at
> least 40 people who came.
>
> If there are enough decent places by the Western stop (Western on the
> Blue Line, I assume you mean) then that could be good.  Ideally we  
> could
> provide people with directions and a list of bars, and then people can
> get there on their own in small groups (coordinating travel for more
> than a small group of people is pretty impossible too).  If we  
> encourage
> people to wear Python clothing then people can find each other.
>
>
> I think we need a list of bars too, since if you don't know the  
> streets
> at all you are just as likely to wander off down a residential  
> street as
> you are to get to the next bar.


I think this is all spot-on.

A list of bars with addresses, and perhaps even a map of the area  
(with bars and the blue line stop), all on a 1 page flyer would help  
even more.

-t

From maney at two14.net  Wed Feb  6 23:00:35 2008
From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 16:00:35 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] web2py 1.20 is out
In-Reply-To: <0C302127-FAD1-44A5-8B4D-D12BD9C1A3D0@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <D53FEAD9-89A5-45B1-9BB3-B2866B9E5FD3@cs.depaul.edu>
	<eb9a21ad0802041907y75ac5d5el1ba41dda261c3988@mail.gmail.com>
	<3db160680802041929j101cfa47v1e75dd167fd7e3e7@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080205155151.GB13309@furrr.two14.net>
	<47A8944A.8070109@colorstudy.com>
	<20080205181140.GA13516@furrr.two14.net>
	<3db160680802051025q1fb70fb6pd1b624034762138d@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080205202155.GB13516@furrr.two14.net>
	<0C302127-FAD1-44A5-8B4D-D12BD9C1A3D0@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <20080206220035.GA16319@furrr.two14.net>

On Tue, Feb 05, 2008 at 02:39:43PM -0600, Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
> > assume that every table has an auto-incrementing int called "id"
> 
> It is easy to ALTER + UPDATE any existing database to be compliant.

Not really - it's not just adding an autoincrement serial number, it's
making that the primary key.  An existing database is likely to have
other users than the web app - that's why it existed before the web app
came along, after all.  :-)  (at least that's what you'd have to do in
Django, though it would allow use of a real key as long as it is a
single column; as best I recall that would also be true in other of the
ORMs I've looked at as well)

> Some people think that the job of a framework should let developer do  
> everything. Other people think that the framework should try to force  
> the developer to follow good practice.

And they're both right, from their own points of view.  As are all the
other views of the elephant named Framework.  Hence the multiplicity of
frameworks (and if one wanted to beat the drum, one could probably make
out that Rails' domination of the Ruby web framework ecosphere is
rather the opposite of an endorsement of Ruby as the greatest language
to come along for web development - really wide use would lead instead
to multiple frameworks with different emphases, as seen in other
languages.  Python, of course, has peculiarly many, but I believe Perl
has more than a couple, and even PHP, although the latter runs more to
gutting whole apps, or plugging things in, I think.)

> I believe it is good practice for DB tables to have a unique  
> autoincrement id field and that is why web2py requires it. This  
> "limitation" make the table portable across multiple back-end databases.

Like most things, it's a tradeoff.  Redundant surrogate keys tend to
confuse things when there's an obvious, meaningful key (this may not be
usual for data sets designed using such a framework, but is that
inherent in the problems being solved or is it just the usual result of
having a hammer, hence approaching everything as if it were a nail?). 
They do, as you say, ease the migration to another, differently
non-compliant database, at least so far as the serial number key goes. 
What is inarguable is that making the framework's ORM require a simple
serial number on every table makes the framework's implementation easier.

-- 
Minsky's Organism Principle: When a system evolves to become more complex,
this always involves a compromise: if its parts become too separate,
then the system's abilities will be limited; but if there are too many
interconnections, then each change in one part will disrupt many others.


From warren.lindsey at gmail.com  Thu Feb  7 14:15:02 2008
From: warren.lindsey at gmail.com (Warren Lindsey)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 07:15:02 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] PyCon BeerBoF
In-Reply-To: <584923AD-F23F-4F3C-8816-6E60A4CC4E9E@mac.com>
References: <4cf38240802061240s444f9428x24f4fc8cb9dd5370@mail.gmail.com>
	<200802061552.30789.pfein@pobox.com> <47AA1FC3.5020600@colorstudy.com>
	<4cf38240802061316r2fdc2bbfo955597d1b73b518d@mail.gmail.com>
	<584923AD-F23F-4F3C-8816-6E60A4CC4E9E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <841e880a0802070515n225ea951i54dad087399df87b@mail.gmail.com>

Goose Island is pretty big with a bar upstairs and bar/lounge
downstairs.  They have conference/party rooms available as well, but
there is sure to be a cost for these on a Saturday night.

On Feb 6, 2008 3:27 PM, Ted Pollari <tcp at mac.com> wrote:
>
> On Feb 6, 2008, at 1:16 PM, Anthony Rubin wrote:
>
> > In my mind there are only two choices if you want a good Chicago
> > brewery: Piece and Goose Island. Piece actually has great beer, great
> > New Haven style pizza and is close to the Damen blue line stop.
>
>
> Piece had some of the worst pizza, worst beer and worst service I've
> experienced.  I'd probably not attend if that was the venue...
>
> I'd be a huge fan of hitting Goose Island, the Map Room, the Hopleaf,
> or any other well established local pub.  If I had to pick one that
> was emblematic of Chicago, it'd surely be Goose Island.  Both
> locations aren't too far from train stops, so it'd be workable...
>
>
> -t
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Thu Feb  7 15:24:02 2008
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 08:24:02 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] PyCon BeerBoF
In-Reply-To: <841e880a0802070515n225ea951i54dad087399df87b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4cf38240802061240s444f9428x24f4fc8cb9dd5370@mail.gmail.com>
	<200802061552.30789.pfein@pobox.com> <47AA1FC3.5020600@colorstudy.com>
	<4cf38240802061316r2fdc2bbfo955597d1b73b518d@mail.gmail.com>
	<584923AD-F23F-4F3C-8816-6E60A4CC4E9E@mac.com>
	<841e880a0802070515n225ea951i54dad087399df87b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0802070624j28ba6118wc64f85accc34de9f@mail.gmail.com>

Goose Island in Wrigleyville is also within looking distance of
Wrigley Field, and is usually not terribly crowded.  That might get a
draw.  It's moderately tough to get to though.

Maybe we can charter a bus?  I see drunk wedding parties tooling up
and down Clark constantly.  Anyone want to look into that?  (I'm all
about making suggestions and not acting on them, ask Ted.)

Chris

On Feb 7, 2008 7:15 AM, Warren Lindsey <warren.lindsey at gmail.com> wrote:
> Goose Island is pretty big with a bar upstairs and bar/lounge
> downstairs.  They have conference/party rooms available as well, but
> there is sure to be a cost for these on a Saturday night.
>
>
> On Feb 6, 2008 3:27 PM, Ted Pollari <tcp at mac.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Feb 6, 2008, at 1:16 PM, Anthony Rubin wrote:
> >
> > > In my mind there are only two choices if you want a good Chicago
> > > brewery: Piece and Goose Island. Piece actually has great beer, great
> > > New Haven style pizza and is close to the Damen blue line stop.
> >
> >
> > Piece had some of the worst pizza, worst beer and worst service I've
> > experienced.  I'd probably not attend if that was the venue...
> >
> > I'd be a huge fan of hitting Goose Island, the Map Room, the Hopleaf,
> > or any other well established local pub.  If I had to pick one that
> > was emblematic of Chicago, it'd surely be Goose Island.  Both
> > locations aren't too far from train stops, so it'd be workable...
> >
> >
> > -t
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From hamcferron at yahoo.com  Thu Feb  7 15:22:14 2008
From: hamcferron at yahoo.com (Alex McFerron)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 06:22:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Chicago] PyCon BeerBoF
In-Reply-To: <841e880a0802070515n225ea951i54dad087399df87b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <342684.1647.qm@web81106.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hopleaf will rent out that upstairs section and put a person up there to serve drinks out of bottles. 
   
   
  
Warren Lindsey <warren.lindsey at gmail.com> wrote:
  Goose Island is pretty big with a bar upstairs and bar/lounge
downstairs. They have conference/party rooms available as well, but
there is sure to be a cost for these on a Saturday night.

On Feb 6, 2008 3:27 PM, Ted Pollari wrote:
>
> On Feb 6, 2008, at 1:16 PM, Anthony Rubin wrote:
>
> > In my mind there are only two choices if you want a good Chicago
> > brewery: Piece and Goose Island. Piece actually has great beer, great
> > New Haven style pizza and is close to the Damen blue line stop.
>
>
> Piece had some of the worst pizza, worst beer and worst service I've
> experienced. I'd probably not attend if that was the venue...
>
> I'd be a huge fan of hitting Goose Island, the Map Room, the Hopleaf,
> or any other well established local pub. If I had to pick one that
> was emblematic of Chicago, it'd surely be Goose Island. Both
> locations aren't too far from train stops, so it'd be workable...
>
>
> -t
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
_______________________________________________
Chicago mailing list
Chicago at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

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From mtemkin at speakeasy.net  Thu Feb  7 16:35:29 2008
From: mtemkin at speakeasy.net (Marc Temkin)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 09:35:29 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chicago Chapter ACM - Feb 13 - Python for Desktop
	Application Development & User Interface Design
Message-ID: <001101c8699f$14820140$6401a8c0@DREAMCATCHER232>

This information is also on the Chapter website at: 
http://www.acm.org/chapters/chicago

  The next meeting of the Chicago Chapter is: 

      Using Python for Desktop Application Development
		and User Interface Design

  Presented by: Jono DiCarlo of Humanized

       Wednesday, February 13, 2007

  5:30 p.m. Social Hour, Dinner Buffet & Refreshments
  6:30 p.m. Presentation  

  Hosted by: Roosevelt University
    18 South Michigan Ave, Chicago, IL 60603
    5th floor Commons area next to the Computer Science Department

Cost:  
  $10 Chapter members
  $12 Non-members
  $ 5 Students 

TOPIC ABSTRACT:
  Jono DiCarlo will be giving us a preview of his presentation at
  the upcoming PyCon 2008 (held in Chicago, March 14-16.) 

  He will talk about the theory behind User Interface design
  decisions and also how Humanized used Python along with 'C'
  extensions to create their product Enso, a client-side, end-user
  Windows application that allows you to use keyboard commands to do
  common tasks. 

  Jono will tell us about how Python can automate your build
  process, can package Windows distributions and why dynamic typing
  was not a significant performance issue. 

  Time allowing, he'll also talk about the Humanized philosophy of
  UI design as embodied in Enso, focusing on the ideas of
  natural-language based interfaces and inter-application
  communication, two ideas underutilized in current GUI design which
  can contribute to making software easier and faster to use for
  beginners and experts alike. 

ABOUT THE SPEAKER:
  Jono DiCarlo graduated college at 17 with a degree in physics.
  Before he joined Humanized he worked in a planetarium, taught
  English to Japanese high school kids, and developed toolkits for
  computational grids at Argonne National Laboratory, and received a
  MS in Computer Science from the University of Chicago in 2005. 

  On January 15, 2008 it was announced that Mozilla, the open source
  browser vendor, hired the three principals of Humanized, including
  Jono, to join the Mozilla Labs team. 

  When not at work he authors comics, works on electronics and
  studies Aikido. 

RESERVATIONS
  Note: Please make your reservation as soon as you know you are
  coming. We need a headcount for the food, as we order it in
  advance.  Even if it is last-minute, reserve anyway. Thanks. 

  Make your meeting reservation by replying to this e-mail
  ( greg at neumarke.net ) You may also call Greg at (work) 773-907-3308 









From jsudlow at gmail.com  Thu Feb  7 18:48:08 2008
From: jsudlow at gmail.com (Jon Sudlow)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 11:48:08 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] PyCon BeerBoF
In-Reply-To: <342684.1647.qm@web81106.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <841e880a0802070515n225ea951i54dad087399df87b@mail.gmail.com>
	<342684.1647.qm@web81106.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <eb9a21ad0802070948h6f6432b4sa65d9d3b926af632@mail.gmail.com>

The Hopleaf is a fantastic bar. They have pricy food but the drink selection
is amazing. Its one of the only places I can get  a Duvel. During Christmas
they even had delirium tremens noel edition on tap. But its usually crowded,
so if it were to be for a bar stop, it might have to be rented out.
I'd give the hopleaf a +1


Also, a fantastic German bar is the brauhouse, which is in Lincoln square.
Its usually not to crowded, sometimes they have a live um pa band. The beers
are fresh, on  draft and amazing.

Theres my two fav's.

-jon

On Feb 7, 2008 8:22 AM, Alex McFerron <hamcferron at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hopleaf will rent out that upstairs section and put a person up there to
> serve drinks out of bottles.
>
>
>
> *Warren Lindsey <warren.lindsey at gmail.com>* wrote:
>
> Goose Island is pretty big with a bar upstairs and bar/lounge
> downstairs. They have conference/party rooms available as well, but
> there is sure to be a cost for these on a Saturday night.
>
> On Feb 6, 2008 3:27 PM, Ted Pollari wrote:
> >
> > On Feb 6, 2008, at 1:16 PM, Anthony Rubin wrote:
> >
> > > In my mind there are only two choices if you want a good Chicago
> > > brewery: Piece and Goose Island. Piece actually has great beer, great
> > > New Haven style pizza and is close to the Damen blue line stop.
> >
> >
> > Piece had some of the worst pizza, worst beer and worst service I've
> > experienced. I'd probably not attend if that was the venue...
> >
> > I'd be a huge fan of hitting Goose Island, the Map Room, the Hopleaf,
> > or any other well established local pub. If I had to pick one that
> > was emblematic of Chicago, it'd surely be Goose Island. Both
> > locations aren't too far from train stops, so it'd be workable...
> >
> >
> > -t
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>


-- 
Jon Sudlow
3225 Foster Avenue
221 Sohlberg Hall
C.P.O 2224
Chicago, Il  60625
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From shekay at pobox.com  Thu Feb  7 23:40:29 2008
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 16:40:29 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] PyCon BeerBoF
In-Reply-To: <eb9a21ad0802070948h6f6432b4sa65d9d3b926af632@mail.gmail.com>
References: <841e880a0802070515n225ea951i54dad087399df87b@mail.gmail.com>
	<342684.1647.qm@web81106.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<eb9a21ad0802070948h6f6432b4sa65d9d3b926af632@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a68ced640802071440mcfe6bcbyfc3217d77be15b40@mail.gmail.com>

There is a new fangled import place on Lawrence east of Lincoln Ave
and room can be rented there for a party.

They have a not-to-bad selection of beer. They've got delirium
tremens, can't remember, maybe Duvel, and a lot other. and you can get
flights.

On Feb 7, 2008 11:48 AM, Jon Sudlow <jsudlow at gmail.com> wrote:
> The Hopleaf is a fantastic bar. They have pricy food but the drink selection
> is amazing. Its one of the only places I can get  a Duvel. During Christmas
> they even had delirium tremens noel edition on tap. But its usually crowded,
> so if it were to be for a bar stop, it might have to be rented out.
>  I'd give the hopleaf a +1
>
>
> Also, a fantastic German bar is the brauhouse, which is in Lincoln square.
> Its usually not to crowded, sometimes they have a live um pa band. The beers
> are fresh, on  draft and amazing.
>
> Theres my two fav's.
>
> -jon
>
>
>
> On Feb 7, 2008 8:22 AM, Alex McFerron <hamcferron at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hopleaf will rent out that upstairs section and put a person up there to
> serve drinks out of bottles.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Warren Lindsey <warren.lindsey at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Goose Island is pretty big with a bar upstairs and bar/lounge
> > downstairs. They have conference/party rooms available as well, but
> > there is sure to be a cost for these on a Saturday night.
> >
> >
> > On Feb 6, 2008 3:27 PM, Ted Pollari wrote:
> > >
> > > On Feb 6, 2008, at 1:16 PM, Anthony Rubin wrote:
> > >
> > > > In my mind there are only two choices if you want a good Chicago
> > > > brewery: Piece and Goose Island. Piece actually has great beer, great
> > > > New Haven style pizza and is close to the Damen blue line stop.
> > >
> > >
> > > Piece had some of the worst pizza, worst beer and worst service I've
> > > experienced. I'd probably not attend if that was the venue...
> > >
> > > I'd be a huge fan of hitting Goose Island, the Map Room, the Hopleaf,
> > > or any other well established local pub. If I had to pick one that
> > > was emblematic of Chicago, it'd surely be Goose Island. Both
> > > locations aren't too far from train stops, so it'd be workable...
> > >
> > >
> > > -t
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Chicago mailing list
> > > Chicago at python.org
> > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Jon Sudlow
> 3225 Foster Avenue
> 221 Sohlberg Hall
> C.P.O 2224
> Chicago, Il  60625
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>



-- 
sheila

From anthony.r.rubin at gmail.com  Fri Feb  8 00:01:28 2008
From: anthony.r.rubin at gmail.com (Anthony Rubin)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 17:01:28 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] PyCon BeerBoF
In-Reply-To: <a68ced640802071440mcfe6bcbyfc3217d77be15b40@mail.gmail.com>
References: <841e880a0802070515n225ea951i54dad087399df87b@mail.gmail.com>
	<342684.1647.qm@web81106.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<eb9a21ad0802070948h6f6432b4sa65d9d3b926af632@mail.gmail.com>
	<a68ced640802071440mcfe6bcbyfc3217d77be15b40@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4cf38240802071501l4e33ec10vcd5a5d8adcca0f2e@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 7, 2008 4:40 PM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
> There is a new fangled import place on Lawrence east of Lincoln Ave
> and room can be rented there for a party.
>
> They have a not-to-bad selection of beer. They've got delirium
> tremens, can't remember, maybe Duvel, and a lot other. and you can get
> flights.

Do you mean Chicago Ale House at Lawrence and Leavitt?

Anthony Rubin
anthony.r.rubin at gmail.com
Chicago, IL

From shekay at pobox.com  Fri Feb  8 00:35:37 2008
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 17:35:37 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] PyCon BeerBoF
In-Reply-To: <4cf38240802071501l4e33ec10vcd5a5d8adcca0f2e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <841e880a0802070515n225ea951i54dad087399df87b@mail.gmail.com>
	<342684.1647.qm@web81106.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<eb9a21ad0802070948h6f6432b4sa65d9d3b926af632@mail.gmail.com>
	<a68ced640802071440mcfe6bcbyfc3217d77be15b40@mail.gmail.com>
	<4cf38240802071501l4e33ec10vcd5a5d8adcca0f2e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a68ced640802071535s6b5a8f81x665c9b24acd3ea5d@mail.gmail.com>

That's it. I couldn't remember the name. It hasn't been horribly
crowded when I've gone by.

Not convenient to the Blue Line, though, and not worth an
extraordinary amount of effort considering hte other places that
effort would get you to.

On Feb 7, 2008 5:01 PM, Anthony Rubin <anthony.r.rubin at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 7, 2008 4:40 PM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
> > There is a new fangled import place on Lawrence east of Lincoln Ave
> > and room can be rented there for a party.
> >
> > They have a not-to-bad selection of beer. They've got delirium
> > tremens, can't remember, maybe Duvel, and a lot other. and you can get
> > flights.
>
> Do you mean Chicago Ale House at Lawrence and Leavitt?
>
> Anthony Rubin
> anthony.r.rubin at gmail.com
> Chicago, IL
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
sheila

From list at phaedrusdeinus.org  Fri Feb  8 18:12:44 2008
From: list at phaedrusdeinus.org (John Melesky)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 11:12:44 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ANN: TechCoffee, Season Five!
Message-ID: <9382CBCC-B65C-4835-B01B-F5EC0380D7F2@phaedrusdeinus.org>

Short version:

Starting Monday, Feb 11, 6:30AM,
for 10 weeks,
at the Same Ol' Caribou Coffee (at the NW corner of LaSalle and Lake)


Long version:

It's Friday. You're looking forward to the weekend, where you will sit  
back and relax.

But don't you have a patch you're working on for Django? Isn't your  
blog comment system still screwed up? How about that business idea  
that really should only need a couple days' worth of coding, but that  
you just haven't gotten around to?

That, my friends, is what TechCoffee is for. A few hours of  
productivity, once a week.

Why are you productive at TechCoffee? Because everyone there is  
working, and there's power in numbers. It's like a quilting bee, or a  
running club. Only for coders.

Because we work at the productive hours of the day, before the coding  
life has been drained out of you by a workday of meetings and drudgery.

Are you ready? Okay.

Show up to the Caribou Coffee at LaSalle and Lake (conveniently  
located near *every* L line) at 6:30AM Monday morning. Once you're  
there, code. Promise someone that you'll be there the following  
Monday. Repeat.

Or, if you're feeling advanced, remember that the season goes for ten  
weeks. Plan milestones. Get all project-managerish. Make a chart. Just  
remember to code, too.

I promise y'all that i'll be there Monday morning, 6:30AM. I'll bring  
a power strip, too. And i'm gonna code.

-johnnnnnnnn


ps- Check http://techcoffee.com/ for more info (well, actually, for  
pretty much the same info).

pps- This is the location:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=200+N+Lasalle,+Chicago,+il&sll=41.88549,-87.632468&sspn=0.014266,0.010643&ie=UTF8&ll=41.884659,-87.632425&spn=0.014266,0.010643&z=16&om=0

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From korpios at korpios.com  Fri Feb  8 18:41:14 2008
From: korpios at korpios.com (Tom Tobin)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 11:41:14 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chicago Djangonauts?
Message-ID: <bf0b20a90802080941u3cb2da04j8c199bf5679b501c@mail.gmail.com>

Just noticed this; are there enough interested Django users around
here to do something similar?

http://djangosd.jottit.com/

From web at holovaty.com  Fri Feb  8 19:07:27 2008
From: web at holovaty.com (Adrian Holovaty)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 12:07:27 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chicago Djangonauts?
In-Reply-To: <bf0b20a90802080941u3cb2da04j8c199bf5679b501c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bf0b20a90802080941u3cb2da04j8c199bf5679b501c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a2eb1c260802081007k3029a6f4mc6c502c777556b25@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/8/08, Tom Tobin <korpios at korpios.com> wrote:
> Just noticed this; are there enough interested Django users around
> here to do something similar?
>
> http://djangosd.jottit.com/

I'm always up for meeting with other Django users! Count me in.

Adrian

From ksilha at gmail.com  Fri Feb  8 19:11:00 2008
From: ksilha at gmail.com (Kevin Silha)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 12:11:00 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chicago Djangonauts?
In-Reply-To: <bf0b20a90802080941u3cb2da04j8c199bf5679b501c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bf0b20a90802080941u3cb2da04j8c199bf5679b501c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2cd07fb50802081011v2b2f7999re5acb3cb5bb26103@mail.gmail.com>

Sounds fun! Preferably near Ogilvie and Union station, to accommodate us
suburbanites.

Kevin

On Feb 8, 2008 11:41 AM, Tom Tobin <korpios at korpios.com> wrote:

> Just noticed this; are there enough interested Django users around
> here to do something similar?
>
> http://djangosd.jottit.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From tprinty at mail.edisonave.net  Fri Feb  8 18:51:08 2008
From: tprinty at mail.edisonave.net (Tom Printy)
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 11:51:08 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chicago Djangonauts?
In-Reply-To: <bf0b20a90802080941u3cb2da04j8c199bf5679b501c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bf0b20a90802080941u3cb2da04j8c199bf5679b501c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1202493068.17182.16.camel@localhost>

I would really like to get schooled in the way of the django!  It would
be great to see how other people are using it and for people the look
over code and give best practices advice.

-Tom



On Fri, 2008-02-08 at 11:41 -0600, Tom Tobin wrote:
> Just noticed this; are there enough interested Django users around
> here to do something similar?
> 
> http://djangosd.jottit.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From matt at datawaslost.net  Fri Feb  8 19:21:41 2008
From: matt at datawaslost.net (Matt Dennewitz)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 12:21:41 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chicago Djangonauts?
In-Reply-To: <1202493068.17182.16.camel@localhost>
References: <bf0b20a90802080941u3cb2da04j8c199bf5679b501c@mail.gmail.com>
	<1202493068.17182.16.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <83AFE96A-DBCF-43E8-B606-01E58D3173CB@datawaslost.net>


Count me in, too!

On Feb 8, 2008, at 11:51 AM, Tom Printy wrote:

> I would really like to get schooled in the way of the django!  It  
> would
> be great to see how other people are using it and for people the look
> over code and give best practices advice.
>
> -Tom
>
>
>
> On Fri, 2008-02-08 at 11:41 -0600, Tom Tobin wrote:
>> Just noticed this; are there enough interested Django users around
>> here to do something similar?
>>
>> http://djangosd.jottit.com/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>


From mandric at gmail.com  Fri Feb  8 19:59:53 2008
From: mandric at gmail.com (Milan Andric)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 12:59:53 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chicago Djangonauts?
In-Reply-To: <bf0b20a90802080941u3cb2da04j8c199bf5679b501c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bf0b20a90802080941u3cb2da04j8c199bf5679b501c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <536089f30802081059h47ddd9derdc30bc11914e96ce@mail.gmail.com>

+1 more

On Fri, Feb 8, 2008 at 11:41 AM, Tom Tobin <korpios at korpios.com> wrote:
> Just noticed this; are there enough interested Django users around
>  here to do something similar?
>
>  http://djangosd.jottit.com/
>  _______________________________________________
>  Chicago mailing list
>  Chicago at python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Fri Feb  8 20:46:23 2008
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 13:46:23 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chicago Djangonauts?
In-Reply-To: <536089f30802081059h47ddd9derdc30bc11914e96ce@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bf0b20a90802080941u3cb2da04j8c199bf5679b501c@mail.gmail.com>
	<536089f30802081059h47ddd9derdc30bc11914e96ce@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0802081146m7e776062v49130c5e1e63684f@mail.gmail.com>

I'm in.

Chris

On Feb 8, 2008 12:59 PM, Milan Andric <mandric at gmail.com> wrote:
> +1 more
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 8, 2008 at 11:41 AM, Tom Tobin <korpios at korpios.com> wrote:
> > Just noticed this; are there enough interested Django users around
> >  here to do something similar?
> >
> >  http://djangosd.jottit.com/
> >  _______________________________________________
> >  Chicago mailing list
> >  Chicago at python.org
> >  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From varmaa at gmail.com  Fri Feb  8 20:48:56 2008
From: varmaa at gmail.com (Atul Varma)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 13:48:56 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chicago Djangonauts?
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0802081146m7e776062v49130c5e1e63684f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bf0b20a90802080941u3cb2da04j8c199bf5679b501c@mail.gmail.com>
	<536089f30802081059h47ddd9derdc30bc11914e96ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<3096c19d0802081146m7e776062v49130c5e1e63684f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <361b27370802081148x6f77b1d1n504a35dd133d3a8c@mail.gmail.com>

If I'm in town at the time, I'll come.

On Feb 8, 2008 1:46 PM, Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm in.
>
> Chris
>
> On Feb 8, 2008 12:59 PM, Milan Andric <mandric at gmail.com> wrote:
> > +1 more
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 8, 2008 at 11:41 AM, Tom Tobin <korpios at korpios.com> wrote:
> > > Just noticed this; are there enough interested Django users around
> > >  here to do something similar?
> > >
> > >  http://djangosd.jottit.com/
> > >  _______________________________________________
> > >  Chicago mailing list
> > >  Chicago at python.org
> > >  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From tim.saylor at gmail.com  Fri Feb  8 20:54:13 2008
From: tim.saylor at gmail.com (Tim Saylor)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 13:54:13 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chicago Djangonauts?
Message-ID: <9fb45b0b0802081154h2a0dd882j1d9c5ef404d50b4a@mail.gmail.com>

+1 djangonaut
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From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Fri Feb  8 21:03:28 2008
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 14:03:28 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chicago Djangonauts?
In-Reply-To: <361b27370802081148x6f77b1d1n504a35dd133d3a8c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bf0b20a90802080941u3cb2da04j8c199bf5679b501c@mail.gmail.com>
	<536089f30802081059h47ddd9derdc30bc11914e96ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<3096c19d0802081146m7e776062v49130c5e1e63684f@mail.gmail.com>
	<361b27370802081148x6f77b1d1n504a35dd133d3a8c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0802081203v3b8cdd56xf646ed082b43b9db@mail.gmail.com>

By the by...in a totally self-absorbed vein...did I invent the word
Djangonauts?  I think I did.  Can anyone prove me wrong?

The reference I can find is
http://weblog.lonelylion.com/2006/05/07/django-leads-the-charge/ from
5/7/2006.

Can anyone find an earlier reference?

Just wondering...you know...because I'm my own biggest fan.

Chris

On Feb 8, 2008 1:48 PM, Atul Varma <varmaa at gmail.com> wrote:
> If I'm in town at the time, I'll come.
>
>
>
> On Feb 8, 2008 1:46 PM, Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I'm in.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Feb 8, 2008 12:59 PM, Milan Andric <mandric at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > +1 more
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Feb 8, 2008 at 11:41 AM, Tom Tobin <korpios at korpios.com> wrote:
> > > > Just noticed this; are there enough interested Django users around
> > > >  here to do something similar?
> > > >
> > > >  http://djangosd.jottit.com/
> > > >  _______________________________________________
> > > >  Chicago mailing list
> > > >  Chicago at python.org
> > > >  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Chicago mailing list
> > > Chicago at python.org
> > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Fri Feb  8 21:05:58 2008
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 14:05:58 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chicago Djangonauts?
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0802081203v3b8cdd56xf646ed082b43b9db@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bf0b20a90802080941u3cb2da04j8c199bf5679b501c@mail.gmail.com>
	<536089f30802081059h47ddd9derdc30bc11914e96ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<3096c19d0802081146m7e776062v49130c5e1e63684f@mail.gmail.com>
	<361b27370802081148x6f77b1d1n504a35dd133d3a8c@mail.gmail.com>
	<3096c19d0802081203v3b8cdd56xf646ed082b43b9db@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0802081205m454a6ff4nb2556911fc5efc91@mail.gmail.com>

No Chris, here's a reference from 2005
http://tabo.aurealsys.com/archives/2005/10/11/django-or-why-i-chose-it-over-turbogears-and-ruby-on-rails/

Hmmmm.

I still think I invented it.

Would you guys mind helping me to spread this false rumor?

Thanks,
Chris

On Feb 8, 2008 2:03 PM, Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:
> By the by...in a totally self-absorbed vein...did I invent the word
> Djangonauts?  I think I did.  Can anyone prove me wrong?
>
> The reference I can find is
> http://weblog.lonelylion.com/2006/05/07/django-leads-the-charge/ from
> 5/7/2006.
>
> Can anyone find an earlier reference?
>
> Just wondering...you know...because I'm my own biggest fan.
>
> Chris
>
>
> On Feb 8, 2008 1:48 PM, Atul Varma <varmaa at gmail.com> wrote:
> > If I'm in town at the time, I'll come.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Feb 8, 2008 1:46 PM, Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I'm in.
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Feb 8, 2008 12:59 PM, Milan Andric <mandric at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > +1 more
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Feb 8, 2008 at 11:41 AM, Tom Tobin <korpios at korpios.com> wrote:
> > > > > Just noticed this; are there enough interested Django users around
> > > > >  here to do something similar?
> > > > >
> > > > >  http://djangosd.jottit.com/
> > > > >  _______________________________________________
> > > > >  Chicago mailing list
> > > > >  Chicago at python.org
> > > > >  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> > > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Chicago mailing list
> > > > Chicago at python.org
> > > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Chicago mailing list
> > > Chicago at python.org
> > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
> >
>

From korpios at korpios.com  Fri Feb  8 21:11:21 2008
From: korpios at korpios.com (Tom Tobin)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 14:11:21 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chicago Djangonauts?
In-Reply-To: <bf0b20a90802080941u3cb2da04j8c199bf5679b501c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bf0b20a90802080941u3cb2da04j8c199bf5679b501c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bf0b20a90802081211y152abd2exb391151ddcfe7c29@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/8/08, Tom Tobin <korpios at korpios.com> wrote:
> Just noticed this; are there enough interested Django users around
> here to do something similar?
>
> http://djangosd.jottit.com/

Okay, we definitely have some interest.  :-)

What sort of times and locations would be good for people?  Aside from
work (I get out around 6pm, M-F), I'm pretty flexible; I'd greatly
prefer something I could get to via mass transit, since I like to
avoid using my car.

I'm thinking of a first meeting being fairly unstructured ? more of a
freewheeling chat, gauging of interests, and planning for future
meetings if everyone's happy.  Style of venue should probably be
addressed now ? e.g., bar vs. conference room.

I'd say that we could chat about it a bit at the ChiPy meeting, but I
can't make the Feb meeting if it's on the 14th.  (You know ... V-Day.)
 :p

From pfein at pobox.com  Fri Feb  8 21:12:39 2008
From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 15:12:39 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Chicago Djangonauts?
In-Reply-To: <bf0b20a90802080941u3cb2da04j8c199bf5679b501c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bf0b20a90802080941u3cb2da04j8c199bf5679b501c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200802081512.39921.pfein@pobox.com>

On Friday February 8 2008 12:41:14 pm Tom Tobin wrote:
> Just noticed this; are there enough interested Django users around
> here to do something similar?
>
> http://djangosd.jottit.com/

Please send announcements to this list if anything comes of it.


-- 
Peter Fein   ||   773-575-0694   ||   pfein at pobox.com
http://www.pobox.com/~pfein/   ||   PGP: 0xCCF6AE6B
irc: pfein at freenode.net   ||   jabber: peter.fein at gmail.com

From paulsmith at pobox.com  Fri Feb  8 21:26:07 2008
From: paulsmith at pobox.com (Paul Smith)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 14:26:07 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chicago Djangonauts?
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0802081205m454a6ff4nb2556911fc5efc91@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bf0b20a90802080941u3cb2da04j8c199bf5679b501c@mail.gmail.com>
	<536089f30802081059h47ddd9derdc30bc11914e96ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<3096c19d0802081146m7e776062v49130c5e1e63684f@mail.gmail.com>
	<361b27370802081148x6f77b1d1n504a35dd133d3a8c@mail.gmail.com>
	<3096c19d0802081203v3b8cdd56xf646ed082b43b9db@mail.gmail.com>
	<3096c19d0802081205m454a6ff4nb2556911fc5efc91@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8c58fcec0802081226h16b83e8aw37779682ac32baaf@mail.gmail.com>

Just a funny coincidence -- I was listening to "Policenauts" by The Fucking
Champs as I was reading this thread.

Aren't we living in the "Naughts," also? I offer a draught beer to my fellow
Djangonaughts ...

On Feb 8, 2008 2:05 PM, Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:

> No Chris, here's a reference from 2005
>
> http://tabo.aurealsys.com/archives/2005/10/11/django-or-why-i-chose-it-over-turbogears-and-ruby-on-rails/
>
> Hmmmm.
>
> I still think I invented it.
>
> Would you guys mind helping me to spread this false rumor?
>
> Thanks,
> Chris
>
> On Feb 8, 2008 2:03 PM, Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:
> > By the by...in a totally self-absorbed vein...did I invent the word
> > Djangonauts?  I think I did.  Can anyone prove me wrong?
> >
> > The reference I can find is
> > http://weblog.lonelylion.com/2006/05/07/django-leads-the-charge/ from
> > 5/7/2006.
> >
> > Can anyone find an earlier reference?
> >
> > Just wondering...you know...because I'm my own biggest fan.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> > On Feb 8, 2008 1:48 PM, Atul Varma <varmaa at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > If I'm in town at the time, I'll come.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Feb 8, 2008 1:46 PM, Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > I'm in.
> > > >
> > > > Chris
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Feb 8, 2008 12:59 PM, Milan Andric <mandric at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > +1 more
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Feb 8, 2008 at 11:41 AM, Tom Tobin <korpios at korpios.com>
> wrote:
> > > > > > Just noticed this; are there enough interested Django users
> around
> > > > > >  here to do something similar?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >  http://djangosd.jottit.com/
> > > > > >  _______________________________________________
> > > > > >  Chicago mailing list
> > > > > >  Chicago at python.org
> > > > > >  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> > > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Chicago mailing list
> > > > > Chicago at python.org
> > > > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> > > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Chicago mailing list
> > > > Chicago at python.org
> > > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Chicago mailing list
> > > Chicago at python.org
> > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> > >
> > >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
Paul Smith
http://www.pauladamsmith.com/
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From tottinge at gmail.com  Fri Feb  8 22:31:44 2008
From: tottinge at gmail.com (Tim Ottinger)
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 15:31:44 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chicago Djangonauts?
In-Reply-To: <bf0b20a90802080941u3cb2da04j8c199bf5679b501c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bf0b20a90802080941u3cb2da04j8c199bf5679b501c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47ACCA40.9040900@gmail.com>

Tom Tobin wrote:
> Just noticed this; are there enough interested Django users around
> here to do something similar?
>
>   
I wish to become a djangonaut.  I'd love to pop in for the meetings.


From tcp at mac.com  Fri Feb  8 22:41:12 2008
From: tcp at mac.com (Ted Pollari)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 13:41:12 -0800
Subject: [Chicago] Chicago Djangonauts?
In-Reply-To: <47ACCA40.9040900@gmail.com>
References: <bf0b20a90802080941u3cb2da04j8c199bf5679b501c@mail.gmail.com>
	<47ACCA40.9040900@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <36F44C35-7F3C-4ED1-A4BA-DF62DE2EB6B7@mac.com>


On Feb 8, 2008, at 1:31 PM, Tim Ottinger wrote:

> I wish to become a djangonaut.  I'd love to pop in for the meetings.

When I'm back in the city, count me in too.

-tcp

From carl at personnelware.com  Mon Feb 11 17:28:17 2008
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 10:28:17 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Feb 14 ChiPy meeting
Message-ID: <47B077A1.4030907@personnelware.com>

Chicago Python User Group
=========================
Come join us for our best meeting ever!

Paul Smith mapping solution from scratch with Mapnik, Django, and OpenLayers.

Thursday Feb 14, 2008 (Valentine's Day - SOs always welcome.)

Meeting starts at 7:00 pm

Crowne Plaza Chicago O'Hare hotel
5440 N River Rd
Rosemont, IL 60018

Directions: http://us.pycon.org/2008/chicago/hotel/
That page could use a bit more info about getting there from Metra or El.  If 
someone will supply the text I'll add it to the page.

Follow the signs to the meeting room.

Yeah, not Chicago.  But it is at the location where PyCon will be, and will make 
a good trial run.  We get to use the AV equipment that will be used at PyCon, 
and decide if 42" screens will be big enough for small tutorials.

Carl K

From cwebber at imagescape.com  Mon Feb 11 17:56:21 2008
From: cwebber at imagescape.com (Christopher Allan Webber)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 10:56:21 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Feb 14 ChiPy meeting
In-Reply-To: <47B077A1.4030907@personnelware.com> (Carl Karsten's message of
	"Mon, 11 Feb 2008 10:28:17 -0600")
References: <47B077A1.4030907@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <6ytzkf300a.fsf@imagescape.com>

Is that seriously all we have scheduled for this week?  Maybe we
should do lightning talks or something.

I could give a talk on PyGTK if anyone's interested, though it
wouldn't be "super well prepared."  Maybe I could do something cool
like give a tutorial on how to build a gtk music player, since I kinda
know how to do that.


Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> writes:

> Chicago Python User Group
> =========================
> Come join us for our best meeting ever!
>
> Paul Smith mapping solution from scratch with Mapnik, Django, and OpenLayers.
>
> Thursday Feb 14, 2008 (Valentine's Day - SOs always welcome.)
>
> Meeting starts at 7:00 pm
>
> Crowne Plaza Chicago O'Hare hotel
> 5440 N River Rd
> Rosemont, IL 60018
>
> Directions: http://us.pycon.org/2008/chicago/hotel/
> That page could use a bit more info about getting there from Metra or El.  If 
> someone will supply the text I'll add it to the page.
>
> Follow the signs to the meeting room.
>
> Yeah, not Chicago.  But it is at the location where PyCon will be, and will make 
> a good trial run.  We get to use the AV equipment that will be used at PyCon, 
> and decide if 42" screens will be big enough for small tutorials.
>
> Carl K
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From cwebber at imagescape.com  Mon Feb 11 17:59:35 2008
From: cwebber at imagescape.com (Christopher Allan Webber)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 10:59:35 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Feb 14 ChiPy meeting
In-Reply-To: <6ytzkf300a.fsf@imagescape.com> (Christopher Allan Webber's
	message of "Mon, 11 Feb 2008 10:56:21 -0600")
References: <47B077A1.4030907@personnelware.com>
	<6ytzkf300a.fsf@imagescape.com>
Message-ID: <6y7ihb2zuw.fsf@imagescape.com>

Oh right, I forgot that there were a lot of people out for valentines.

Good thing my fiance is opposed to valentines day on principle.  I
didn't want to miss the openlayers talk.

Christopher Allan Webber <cwebber at imagescape.com> writes:

> Is that seriously all we have scheduled for this week?  Maybe we
> should do lightning talks or something.
>
> I could give a talk on PyGTK if anyone's interested, though it
> wouldn't be "super well prepared."  Maybe I could do something cool
> like give a tutorial on how to build a gtk music player, since I kinda
> know how to do that.
>
>
> Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> writes:
>
>> Chicago Python User Group
>> =========================
>> Come join us for our best meeting ever!
>>
>> Paul Smith mapping solution from scratch with Mapnik, Django, and OpenLayers.
>>
>> Thursday Feb 14, 2008 (Valentine's Day - SOs always welcome.)
>>
>> Meeting starts at 7:00 pm
>>
>> Crowne Plaza Chicago O'Hare hotel
>> 5440 N River Rd
>> Rosemont, IL 60018
>>
>> Directions: http://us.pycon.org/2008/chicago/hotel/
>> That page could use a bit more info about getting there from Metra or El.  If 
>> someone will supply the text I'll add it to the page.
>>
>> Follow the signs to the meeting room.
>>
>> Yeah, not Chicago.  But it is at the location where PyCon will be, and will make 
>> a good trial run.  We get to use the AV equipment that will be used at PyCon, 
>> and decide if 42" screens will be big enough for small tutorials.
>>
>> Carl K
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From korpios at korpios.com  Mon Feb 11 18:12:22 2008
From: korpios at korpios.com (Tom Tobin)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 11:12:22 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Feb 14 ChiPy meeting
In-Reply-To: <6y7ihb2zuw.fsf@imagescape.com>
References: <47B077A1.4030907@personnelware.com>
	<6ytzkf300a.fsf@imagescape.com> <6y7ihb2zuw.fsf@imagescape.com>
Message-ID: <bf0b20a90802110912y5148989evd71f1e3b613f8e5b@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/11/08, Christopher Allan Webber <cwebber at imagescape.com> wrote:
> Oh right, I forgot that there were a lot of people out for valentines.
>
> Good thing my fiance is opposed to valentines day on principle.  I
> didn't want to miss the openlayers talk.

I envy you; my fianc?e has been bugging me non-stop about V-Day.  ^_^

And, argh ... we've had some interest in OpenLayers lately, too.  The
meeting's being recorded, right?  :-D

From carl at personnelware.com  Mon Feb 11 18:27:29 2008
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 11:27:29 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Feb 14 ChiPy meeting
In-Reply-To: <6ytzkf300a.fsf@imagescape.com>
References: <47B077A1.4030907@personnelware.com>
	<6ytzkf300a.fsf@imagescape.com>
Message-ID: <47B08581.7080300@personnelware.com>

Christopher Allan Webber wrote:
> Is that seriously all we have scheduled for this week?  

A) it is a pretty big and popular topic, so may soak up the whole meeting. 
Paul, any idea how much time you need?

B) normally things come out of the woodwork.

> 
> I could give a talk on PyGTK if anyone's interested, though it
> wouldn't be "super well prepared."  Maybe I could do something cool
> like give a tutorial on how to build a gtk music player, since I kinda
> know how to do that.

sounds good to me.  Do you need to know ahead of time?    If it doesn't happen 
this month, I am sure it would be well received in a future meeting.

Carl K

> 
> 
> Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> writes:
> 
>> Chicago Python User Group
>> =========================
>> Come join us for our best meeting ever!
>>
>> Paul Smith mapping solution from scratch with Mapnik, Django, and OpenLayers.
>>
>> Thursday Feb 14, 2008 (Valentine's Day - SOs always welcome.)
>>
>> Meeting starts at 7:00 pm
>>
>> Crowne Plaza Chicago O'Hare hotel
>> 5440 N River Rd
>> Rosemont, IL 60018
>>
>> Directions: http://us.pycon.org/2008/chicago/hotel/
>> That page could use a bit more info about getting there from Metra or El.  If 
>> someone will supply the text I'll add it to the page.
>>
>> Follow the signs to the meeting room.
>>
>> Yeah, not Chicago.  But it is at the location where PyCon will be, and will make 
>> a good trial run.  We get to use the AV equipment that will be used at PyCon, 
>> and decide if 42" screens will be big enough for small tutorials.
>>
>> Carl K
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 
> 

From dgriff1 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 11 18:30:56 2008
From: dgriff1 at gmail.com (Daniel Griffin)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 11:30:56 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Feb 14 ChiPy meeting
In-Reply-To: <47B08581.7080300@personnelware.com>
References: <47B077A1.4030907@personnelware.com>
	<6ytzkf300a.fsf@imagescape.com> <47B08581.7080300@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <3db160680802110930t220335d2g94e7a19ba3052819@mail.gmail.com>

Myself and a friend plan to attend. We are hoping to argue/get in a
fistfight over different python web frameworks and we are excited to hear
that talk.
Dan

On Feb 11, 2008 11:27 AM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:

> Christopher Allan Webber wrote:
> > Is that seriously all we have scheduled for this week?
>
> A) it is a pretty big and popular topic, so may soak up the whole meeting.
> Paul, any idea how much time you need?
>
> B) normally things come out of the woodwork.
>
> >
> > I could give a talk on PyGTK if anyone's interested, though it
> > wouldn't be "super well prepared."  Maybe I could do something cool
> > like give a tutorial on how to build a gtk music player, since I kinda
> > know how to do that.
>
> sounds good to me.  Do you need to know ahead of time?    If it doesn't
> happen
> this month, I am sure it would be well received in a future meeting.
>
> Carl K
>
> >
> >
> > Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> writes:
> >
> >> Chicago Python User Group
> >> =========================
> >> Come join us for our best meeting ever!
> >>
> >> Paul Smith mapping solution from scratch with Mapnik, Django, and
> OpenLayers.
> >>
> >> Thursday Feb 14, 2008 (Valentine's Day - SOs always welcome.)
> >>
> >> Meeting starts at 7:00 pm
> >>
> >> Crowne Plaza Chicago O'Hare hotel
> >> 5440 N River Rd
> >> Rosemont, IL 60018
> >>
> >> Directions: http://us.pycon.org/2008/chicago/hotel/
> >> That page could use a bit more info about getting there from Metra or
> El.  If
> >> someone will supply the text I'll add it to the page.
> >>
> >> Follow the signs to the meeting room.
> >>
> >> Yeah, not Chicago.  But it is at the location where PyCon will be, and
> will make
> >> a good trial run.  We get to use the AV equipment that will be used at
> PyCon,
> >> and decide if 42" screens will be big enough for small tutorials.
> >>
> >> Carl K
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Chicago mailing list
> >> Chicago at python.org
> >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From paulsmith at pobox.com  Mon Feb 11 18:39:35 2008
From: paulsmith at pobox.com (Paul Smith)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 11:39:35 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Feb 14 ChiPy meeting
In-Reply-To: <47B08581.7080300@personnelware.com>
References: <47B077A1.4030907@personnelware.com>
	<6ytzkf300a.fsf@imagescape.com> <47B08581.7080300@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <8c58fcec0802110939m375aed9ck8dfcb036a91a4669@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 11, 2008 11:27 AM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:

> Christopher Allan Webber wrote:
> > Is that seriously all we have scheduled for this week?
>
> A) it is a pretty big and popular topic, so may soak up the whole meeting.
> Paul, any idea how much time you need?
>

I'm totally flexible, btw. I had conceived of something on the order of
15-20 minutes for the tutorial proper, and then play it by ear for Q&A
following. I can happily stretch it out if necessary, go into a bit more
depth.

Cheers,
-Paul



-- 
Paul Smith
http://www.pauladamsmith.com/
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From bob.haugen at gmail.com  Mon Feb 11 20:38:44 2008
From: bob.haugen at gmail.com (Bob Haugen)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 13:38:44 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Feb 14 ChiPy meeting
In-Reply-To: <8c58fcec0802110939m375aed9ck8dfcb036a91a4669@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47B077A1.4030907@personnelware.com>
	<6ytzkf300a.fsf@imagescape.com> <47B08581.7080300@personnelware.com>
	<8c58fcec0802110939m375aed9ck8dfcb036a91a4669@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <343ecb3e0802111138o43a1b651re5f4a7aa189e11a@mail.gmail.com>

chipy.org says to RSVP.  I assume here.

If it ain't already obvious, I'll be the n00b.

-Bob Haugen
http://group-accounting.com

From maney at two14.net  Mon Feb 11 20:38:51 2008
From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 13:38:51 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Feb 14 ChiPy meeting
In-Reply-To: <47B08581.7080300@personnelware.com>
References: <47B077A1.4030907@personnelware.com>
	<6ytzkf300a.fsf@imagescape.com>
	<47B08581.7080300@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <20080211193851.GA13281@furrr.two14.net>

On Mon, Feb 11, 2008 at 11:27:29AM -0600, Carl Karsten wrote:
> B) normally things come out of the woodwork.

"... like worms out of a hot cheese log."

-- 
People are too impatient.  They want a three-line definition of
consciousness and a five-line proof that a computational system can
or cannot have consciousness.  And they want it today.  They don't want
to have to do the hard work ...  -- Aaron Sloman


From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 11 22:07:18 2008
From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 13:07:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Chicago] Feb 14 ChiPy meeting
In-Reply-To: <47B08581.7080300@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <302636.59761.qm@web34815.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


--- Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:

> B) normally things come out of the woodwork.

Speaking of which, I would like to present some work I've been doing
with transforming my resume from YAML to various file formats (XML,
plaintext, HTML, ODT, PDF, RTF, MSWord). I'm not done coding it, but
I have done enough work that I could talk about certain things:

- Difference between YAML and XML, how to convert between them
- Various libraries that I used: PyYAML, Python UNO, Mako, Genshi,
lxml
- Genshi Vs XSLT in HTML generation
- Mako Vs XSLT in plaintext generation
- Internal structure of Open Office Writer format (ODT files)
- Creating documents based on templates created in Open Office

I could spin this talk a number of different ways, so if there's some
subtopic that people are especially interested in, let me know and I
can focus on that. 


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ 


From matt at datawaslost.net  Wed Feb  6 20:07:08 2008
From: matt at datawaslost.net (Matt Dennewitz)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 13:07:08 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] New (Django) Project
In-Reply-To: <47A8CA4B.1080805@colorstudy.com>
References: <D53FEAD9-89A5-45B1-9BB3-B2866B9E5FD3@cs.depaul.edu>	<eb9a21ad0802041907y75ac5d5el1ba41dda261c3988@mail.gmail.com>	<3db160680802041929j101cfa47v1e75dd167fd7e3e7@mail.gmail.com>	<20080205155151.GB13309@furrr.two14.net>	<47A8944A.8070109@colorstudy.com>
	<20080205181140.GA13516@furrr.two14.net>
	<47A8CA4B.1080805@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <351B942B-2957-42FF-A034-BF80A627BC98@datawaslost.net>

hey all..

i just put a new site done with django online.. it was a personal  
project done over the weekend in response to the tsa's new blog and  
the reactions it provoked. its also the first personal project ive  
*actually* completed in a long time ;)

http://www.tsacomplaints.net/

if you guys have a moment, would you mind hitting it up, checking it  
out, and making sure i didnt miss anything? if you have any comments  
suggestions (or complaints to add! content!) before the launch, i'd be  
very appreciative.



thanks much,
matt





On Feb 5, 2008, at 2:42 PM, Ian Bicking wrote:

> Martin Maney wrote:
>> Yeah, I recall that SQLAlchemy was far less of a crippled compromise
>> than any other ORM I'd ever seen, but in itself it's hardly a web app
>> framework (and so it didn't usefully solve any of my immediate  
>> problems
>> - substituting its notation for existing SQL would have been little
>> more than make-work, and using it with the small Django app(let)s  
>> would
>> merely have broken the automagical admin and other stuff that make up
>> half of the reason Django is useful to me).  I don't remember having
>> heard of Storm before.
>
> There's recent work on making Django-like admin stuff with  
> SQLAlchemy, here:
>   http://code.google.com/p/dbsprockets/
>
> It's harder to make interfaces like this when the model isn't as
> constrained.  There might be some Elixir-specific stuff too (Elixir  
> is a
> wrapper around SQLAlchemy for creating models more like Django or
> SQLObject).
>
>   Ian
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>


From korpios at korpios.com  Tue Feb 12 16:52:41 2008
From: korpios at korpios.com (Tom Tobin)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:52:41 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] New (Django) Project
In-Reply-To: <351B942B-2957-42FF-A034-BF80A627BC98@datawaslost.net>
References: <D53FEAD9-89A5-45B1-9BB3-B2866B9E5FD3@cs.depaul.edu>
	<eb9a21ad0802041907y75ac5d5el1ba41dda261c3988@mail.gmail.com>
	<3db160680802041929j101cfa47v1e75dd167fd7e3e7@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080205155151.GB13309@furrr.two14.net>
	<47A8944A.8070109@colorstudy.com>
	<20080205181140.GA13516@furrr.two14.net>
	<47A8CA4B.1080805@colorstudy.com>
	<351B942B-2957-42FF-A034-BF80A627BC98@datawaslost.net>
Message-ID: <bf0b20a90802120752i75d75c42p451cbb4d111d86d4@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/6/08, Matt Dennewitz <matt at datawaslost.net> wrote:
> hey all..

Please don't send list messages "To:" yourself and merely
"Reply-to:"'d the list; this makes Gmail's filtering quite unhappy.
If this was unintentional, please make your mail client stop
misbehaving.  :-)

From cwebber at imagescape.com  Tue Feb 12 18:16:59 2008
From: cwebber at imagescape.com (Christopher Allan Webber)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:16:59 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Feb 14 ChiPy meeting
In-Reply-To: <302636.59761.qm@web34815.mail.mud.yahoo.com> (Feihong Hsu's
	message of "Mon, 11 Feb 2008 13:07:18 -0800 (PST)")
References: <302636.59761.qm@web34815.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6ybq6m14dw.fsf@imagescape.com>

Well, in that case I'll postpone my talk till next month.  I'm excited
to talk about it, but I'm also more willing to wait until I'm better
prepared.

Besides, I'm hoping to have a *real* release of PyStage before this
upcoming meeting, so I should probably focus on that :)

Feihong Hsu <hsu.feihong at yahoo.com> writes:

> --- Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:
>
>> B) normally things come out of the woodwork.
>
> Speaking of which, I would like to present some work I've been doing
> with transforming my resume from YAML to various file formats (XML,
> plaintext, HTML, ODT, PDF, RTF, MSWord). I'm not done coding it, but
> I have done enough work that I could talk about certain things:
>
> - Difference between YAML and XML, how to convert between them
> - Various libraries that I used: PyYAML, Python UNO, Mako, Genshi,
> lxml
> - Genshi Vs XSLT in HTML generation
> - Mako Vs XSLT in plaintext generation
> - Internal structure of Open Office Writer format (ODT files)
> - Creating documents based on templates created in Open Office
>
> I could spin this talk a number of different ways, so if there's some
> subtopic that people are especially interested in, let me know and I
> can focus on that. 
>
>
>       ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and 
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ 
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From cstejerean at gmail.com  Tue Feb 12 18:52:06 2008
From: cstejerean at gmail.com (Cosmin Stejerean)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:52:06 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] New (Django) Project
In-Reply-To: <bf0b20a90802120752i75d75c42p451cbb4d111d86d4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D53FEAD9-89A5-45B1-9BB3-B2866B9E5FD3@cs.depaul.edu>
	<eb9a21ad0802041907y75ac5d5el1ba41dda261c3988@mail.gmail.com>
	<3db160680802041929j101cfa47v1e75dd167fd7e3e7@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080205155151.GB13309@furrr.two14.net>
	<47A8944A.8070109@colorstudy.com>
	<20080205181140.GA13516@furrr.two14.net>
	<47A8CA4B.1080805@colorstudy.com>
	<351B942B-2957-42FF-A034-BF80A627BC98@datawaslost.net>
	<bf0b20a90802120752i75d75c42p451cbb4d111d86d4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <276266d0802120952xf757526i86181fe84dbf98fb@mail.gmail.com>

Luckily Gmail now detects mailing lists and you can filter based on that (as
opposed to writing your own filters by hand based on to: or subject). In
Gmail take a look at the "filter messages from this mailing list" link in
the details of the message.

- Cosmin

On Feb 12, 2008 9:52 AM, Tom Tobin <korpios at korpios.com> wrote:

> On 2/6/08, Matt Dennewitz <matt at datawaslost.net> wrote:
> > hey all..
>
> Please don't send list messages "To:" yourself and merely
> "Reply-to:"'d the list; this makes Gmail's filtering quite unhappy.
> If this was unintentional, please make your mail client stop
> misbehaving.  :-)
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
Cosmin Stejerean
http://blog.offbytwo.com
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From korpios at korpios.com  Tue Feb 12 18:56:02 2008
From: korpios at korpios.com (Tom Tobin)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:56:02 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] New (Django) Project
In-Reply-To: <276266d0802120952xf757526i86181fe84dbf98fb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D53FEAD9-89A5-45B1-9BB3-B2866B9E5FD3@cs.depaul.edu>
	<eb9a21ad0802041907y75ac5d5el1ba41dda261c3988@mail.gmail.com>
	<3db160680802041929j101cfa47v1e75dd167fd7e3e7@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080205155151.GB13309@furrr.two14.net>
	<47A8944A.8070109@colorstudy.com>
	<20080205181140.GA13516@furrr.two14.net>
	<47A8CA4B.1080805@colorstudy.com>
	<351B942B-2957-42FF-A034-BF80A627BC98@datawaslost.net>
	<bf0b20a90802120752i75d75c42p451cbb4d111d86d4@mail.gmail.com>
	<276266d0802120952xf757526i86181fe84dbf98fb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bf0b20a90802120956v59bfb8a7y3fe1e16719f3f557@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/12/08, Cosmin Stejerean <cstejerean at gmail.com> wrote:
> Luckily Gmail now detects mailing lists and you can filter based on that (as
> opposed to writing your own filters by hand based on to: or subject). In
> Gmail take a look at the "filter messages from this mailing list" link in
> the details of the message.

Hmm.  I'm not seeing such a link.  :-(  I wouldn't put it past me that
I'm just being blind, but neither the "Details" area nor the
down-arrow menu on the upper right seems to have such an option.

From skip at pobox.com  Tue Feb 12 19:07:47 2008
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 12:07:47 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] New (Django) Project
In-Reply-To: <bf0b20a90802120956v59bfb8a7y3fe1e16719f3f557@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D53FEAD9-89A5-45B1-9BB3-B2866B9E5FD3@cs.depaul.edu>
	<eb9a21ad0802041907y75ac5d5el1ba41dda261c3988@mail.gmail.com>
	<3db160680802041929j101cfa47v1e75dd167fd7e3e7@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080205155151.GB13309@furrr.two14.net>
	<47A8944A.8070109@colorstudy.com>
	<20080205181140.GA13516@furrr.two14.net>
	<47A8CA4B.1080805@colorstudy.com>
	<351B942B-2957-42FF-A034-BF80A627BC98@datawaslost.net>
	<bf0b20a90802120752i75d75c42p451cbb4d111d86d4@mail.gmail.com>
	<276266d0802120952xf757526i86181fe84dbf98fb@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf0b20a90802120956v59bfb8a7y3fe1e16719f3f557@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <18353.57459.108328.188469@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>


    >> In Gmail take a look at the "filter messages from this mailing list"
    >> link in the details of the message.

    Tom> Hmm.  I'm not seeing such a link.  :-(

In the newer version (link at upper right of the page) I see "Filter
messages like this".  If I switch back to the older version that menu item
is gone.

Skip

From korpios at korpios.com  Tue Feb 12 19:17:13 2008
From: korpios at korpios.com (Tom Tobin)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 12:17:13 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] New (Django) Project
In-Reply-To: <18353.57459.108328.188469@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
References: <D53FEAD9-89A5-45B1-9BB3-B2866B9E5FD3@cs.depaul.edu>
	<20080205155151.GB13309@furrr.two14.net>
	<47A8944A.8070109@colorstudy.com>
	<20080205181140.GA13516@furrr.two14.net>
	<47A8CA4B.1080805@colorstudy.com>
	<351B942B-2957-42FF-A034-BF80A627BC98@datawaslost.net>
	<bf0b20a90802120752i75d75c42p451cbb4d111d86d4@mail.gmail.com>
	<276266d0802120952xf757526i86181fe84dbf98fb@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf0b20a90802120956v59bfb8a7y3fe1e16719f3f557@mail.gmail.com>
	<18353.57459.108328.188469@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
Message-ID: <bf0b20a90802121017s2e826352m6c8c156854a027f3@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/12/08, skip at pobox.com <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
>
>     >> In Gmail take a look at the "filter messages from this mailing list"
>     >> link in the details of the message.
>
>     Tom> Hmm.  I'm not seeing such a link.  :-(
>
> In the newer version (link at upper right of the page) I see "Filter
> messages like this".  If I switch back to the older version that menu item
> is gone.

Aw, damn it ... why does the Google Apps version of Gmail have to lag
behind?  :-(

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Tue Feb 12 21:45:00 2008
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:45:00 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] About Chicago & Local Restaurants
Message-ID: <3096c19d0802121245g2f5b6499r22c34c32b9098d28@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,

We have a mission.  For Pycon, there's going to be a "publication,"
which sounds mysterious, but is actually just going to be a program.
We've been asked to supply two things, 1) About Chicago and 2) Local
Restaurants and Tourist Spots.

We've had a gajillion of these discussions before, so pull out your
lists and respond to this email.  Tom Tobin and Sheila Kay (without
her knowing, hi Sheila!) have volunteered to pull the emails together
into a coherent lump, which will then be universally credited to
ChiPy.

Does this make sense?  Start suggesting.

Chris

From skip at pobox.com  Tue Feb 12 21:55:50 2008
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:55:50 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] About Chicago & Local Restaurants
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0802121245g2f5b6499r22c34c32b9098d28@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0802121245g2f5b6499r22c34c32b9098d28@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <18354.2006.526785.696821@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>


    Chris> 1) About Chicago and 2) Local Restaurants and Tourist Spots.

http://us.pycon.org/2008/chicago/restaurants/

Start there, edit the wiki page as seems fit.  I started, got distracted by
real life and have yet to return to it.

Why create a piece of paper instead of just relying on the conference
website?

Skip

From anthony.r.rubin at gmail.com  Tue Feb 12 22:11:05 2008
From: anthony.r.rubin at gmail.com (Anthony Rubin)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:11:05 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] About Chicago & Local Restaurants
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0802121245g2f5b6499r22c34c32b9098d28@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0802121245g2f5b6499r22c34c32b9098d28@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4cf38240802121311t7a10ca17mb15f276dbd39a8e8@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 12, 2008 2:45 PM, Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> We have a mission.  For Pycon, there's going to be a "publication,"
> which sounds mysterious, but is actually just going to be a program.
> We've been asked to supply two things, 1) About Chicago and 2) Local
> Restaurants and Tourist Spots.
>
> We've had a gajillion of these discussions before, so pull out your
> lists and respond to this email.  Tom Tobin and Sheila Kay (without
> her knowing, hi Sheila!) have volunteered to pull the emails together
> into a coherent lump, which will then be universally credited to
> ChiPy.
>
> Does this make sense?  Start suggesting.
>
> Chris
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

I have a partial list here:

http://del.icio.us/anthonyrubin/restaurant

If I had to single out a few restaurants that are worth visiting while
in Chicago:

Frontera Grill - regional Mexican, James Beard award winner, Rick
Bayless has a show on PBS
Hopleaf - Belgian-style pub, amazing beer selection, amazing food
Spoon Thai - Thai, be sure to get the Chicago tribune menu and the
translated Thai menu
Spacca Napoli - authentic Neapolitan style pizza and Italian
Kuma's Corner - pub with metal theme, decent beer selection and
interesting burgers named after metal bands

I'll also mention that several chefs from higher end Chicago
restaurants have been on Iron Chef America: Tru, Moto, Avenues.

Anthony Rubin
Chicago, IL

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Wed Feb 13 13:41:53 2008
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 06:41:53 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] About Chicago & Local Restaurants
In-Reply-To: <18354.2006.526785.696821@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
References: <3096c19d0802121245g2f5b6499r22c34c32b9098d28@mail.gmail.com>
	<18354.2006.526785.696821@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0802130441v3c1a1652l98b96f70a6c154@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 12, 2008 2:55 PM,  <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
>
>     Chris> 1) About Chicago and 2) Local Restaurants and Tourist Spots.
>
> http://us.pycon.org/2008/chicago/restaurants/
>
> Start there, edit the wiki page as seems fit.  I started, got distracted by
> real life and have yet to return to it.
>
> Why create a piece of paper instead of just relying on the conference
> website?
>

We're not publishing it, we're just helping to write it.  I believe
it's a special conference edition of 'python magazine.'

Chris

From shekay at pobox.com  Wed Feb 13 16:37:30 2008
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:37:30 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] About Chicago & Local Restaurants
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0802130441v3c1a1652l98b96f70a6c154@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0802121245g2f5b6499r22c34c32b9098d28@mail.gmail.com>
	<18354.2006.526785.696821@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
	<3096c19d0802130441v3c1a1652l98b96f70a6c154@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a68ced640802130737r12e68aebqca810970031c340e@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 13, 2008 6:41 AM, Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 12, 2008 2:55 PM,  <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
> >
> >     Chris> 1) About Chicago and 2) Local Restaurants and Tourist Spots.
> >
> > http://us.pycon.org/2008/chicago/restaurants/
> >
> > Start there, edit the wiki page as seems fit.  I started, got distracted by
> > real life and have yet to return to it.
> >
> > Why create a piece of paper instead of just relying on the conference
> > website?
> >
>
> We're not publishing it, we're just helping to write it.  I believe
> it's a special conference edition of 'python magazine.'

I don't mind being volunteered to help (better tell me the deadlines
and make sure to pound them into my head due to my addish habits). I
hope someone with stellar writing skills also helps.



-- 
sheila

From shekay at pobox.com  Wed Feb 13 16:49:39 2008
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:49:39 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Feb 14 ChiPy meeting
In-Reply-To: <47B077A1.4030907@personnelware.com>
References: <47B077A1.4030907@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <a68ced640802130749y6bf43744r206aaaf3773c5049@mail.gmail.com>

No one updated the wiki page!

On Feb 11, 2008 10:28 AM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:
> Chicago Python User Group
> =========================
> Come join us for our best meeting ever!
>
> Paul Smith mapping solution from scratch with Mapnik, Django, and OpenLayers.
>
> Thursday Feb 14, 2008 (Valentine's Day - SOs always welcome.)
>
> Meeting starts at 7:00 pm
>
> Crowne Plaza Chicago O'Hare hotel
> 5440 N River Rd
> Rosemont, IL 60018
>
> Directions: http://us.pycon.org/2008/chicago/hotel/
> That page could use a bit more info about getting there from Metra or El.  If
> someone will supply the text I'll add it to the page.
>
> Follow the signs to the meeting room.
>
> Yeah, not Chicago.  But it is at the location where PyCon will be, and will make
> a good trial run.  We get to use the AV equipment that will be used at PyCon,
> and decide if 42" screens will be big enough for small tutorials.
>
> Carl K
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
sheila

From cwebber at imagescape.com  Wed Feb 13 16:51:40 2008
From: cwebber at imagescape.com (Christopher Allan Webber)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:51:40 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] About Chicago & Local Restaurants
In-Reply-To: <4cf38240802121311t7a10ca17mb15f276dbd39a8e8@mail.gmail.com>
	(Anthony Rubin's message of "Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:11:05 -0600")
References: <3096c19d0802121245g2f5b6499r22c34c32b9098d28@mail.gmail.com>
	<4cf38240802121311t7a10ca17mb15f276dbd39a8e8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6y7ih826sz.fsf@imagescape.com>

Hot Doug's.

Okay, yeah it's a hot dog stand, but where else in the world can you
get rattlesnake sausage covered with blue cheese, chipotle mustard and
honey, with a side of duck fat fries?

http://www.hotdougs.com/specials.htm

Other than that, if you're in Andersonville or Lincoln Park (haven't
been to the Lincoln Park location yet myself), definetly check out
Icosium Cafe:

http://www.icosiumkafe.com/

It's crepes, but really frickin' good crepes.  Both of the sweet and
the more dinner-ish variety.  I haven't yet brought a guest to chicago
there who hasn't been impressed.



"Anthony Rubin" <anthony.r.rubin at gmail.com> writes:

> On Feb 12, 2008 2:45 PM, Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> We have a mission.  For Pycon, there's going to be a "publication,"
>> which sounds mysterious, but is actually just going to be a program.
>> We've been asked to supply two things, 1) About Chicago and 2) Local
>> Restaurants and Tourist Spots.
>>
>> We've had a gajillion of these discussions before, so pull out your
>> lists and respond to this email.  Tom Tobin and Sheila Kay (without
>> her knowing, hi Sheila!) have volunteered to pull the emails together
>> into a coherent lump, which will then be universally credited to
>> ChiPy.
>>
>> Does this make sense?  Start suggesting.
>>
>> Chris
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
> I have a partial list here:
>
> http://del.icio.us/anthonyrubin/restaurant
>
> If I had to single out a few restaurants that are worth visiting while
> in Chicago:
>
> Frontera Grill - regional Mexican, James Beard award winner, Rick
> Bayless has a show on PBS
> Hopleaf - Belgian-style pub, amazing beer selection, amazing food
> Spoon Thai - Thai, be sure to get the Chicago tribune menu and the
> translated Thai menu
> Spacca Napoli - authentic Neapolitan style pizza and Italian
> Kuma's Corner - pub with metal theme, decent beer selection and
> interesting burgers named after metal bands
>
> I'll also mention that several chefs from higher end Chicago
> restaurants have been on Iron Chef America: Tru, Moto, Avenues.
>
> Anthony Rubin
> Chicago, IL
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From tottinge at gmail.com  Wed Feb 13 18:36:58 2008
From: tottinge at gmail.com (Tim Ottinger)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 11:36:58 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Feb 14 ChiPy meeting
In-Reply-To: <6ytzkf300a.fsf@imagescape.com>
References: <47B077A1.4030907@personnelware.com>
	<6ytzkf300a.fsf@imagescape.com>
Message-ID: <47B32ABA.9080905@gmail.com>

Broken hearted me, I can't come this time.  Please let me know when 
video and slides are available. I have another out-of-town gig next week.

From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 14 04:05:22 2008
From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 19:05:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Chicago] GUI programming with JPype
Message-ID: <147657.32632.qm@web34807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Does anyone have experience doing GUI programming through JPype? The
only thing I've found so far is this:

http://www.nabble.com/problem-with-swing-callbacks-in-jpype-td9656864.html

That example works, but it's kind of weird, because that while loop
at the end is essentially a polling loop. I'd think that there would
be a better way to do something like that, but I haven't done
anything with AWT or Swing in years.




      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

From nerkles at gmail.com  Thu Feb 14 04:10:27 2008
From: nerkles at gmail.com (Isaac Csandl)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 21:10:27 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] driving from loop, room for 3... carpool?
Message-ID: <ED46FEC4-FBDB-41F1-B0D8-B1A161D0B50D@gmail.com>

Hi,

I'm planning to drive from 180 N La Salle, leaving at 5:50pm ... I  
have room for 3 people. Drop me a line off-list if you want to ride  
along, and we'll work out the details.

See you all soon...

--Isaac



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Thu Feb 14 05:56:07 2008
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 22:56:07 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Bar map?
Message-ID: <47B3C9E7.3010507@colorstudy.com>

Did anyone ever make a map of bars?  If not I think I know someone who 
is opinionated about blue line bars, but I don't want to ask him to go 
to that trouble if we've already got something.

   Ian

From tcp at mac.com  Thu Feb 14 06:01:31 2008
From: tcp at mac.com (Ted Pollari)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 21:01:31 -0800
Subject: [Chicago] Bar map?
In-Reply-To: <47B3C9E7.3010507@colorstudy.com>
References: <47B3C9E7.3010507@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <393F2EF4-FC3F-4180-B458-6BD533F737C6@mac.com>


On Feb 13, 2008, at 8:56 PM, Ian Bicking wrote:

> Did anyone ever make a map of bars?  If not I think I know someone who
> is opinionated about blue line bars, but I don't want to ask him to go
> to that trouble if we've already got something.
>
>   Ian


I haven't heard of anything... Pete?

From cbc at unc.edu  Thu Feb 14 17:06:17 2008
From: cbc at unc.edu (Chris Calloway)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 11:06:17 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Bar map?
In-Reply-To: <47B3C9E7.3010507@colorstudy.com>
References: <47B3C9E7.3010507@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <47B466F9.6010108@unc.edu>

On 2/13/2008 11:56 PM, Ian Bicking wrote:
> Did anyone ever make a map of bars?  If not I think I know someone who 
> is opinionated about blue line bars, but I don't want to ask him to go 
> to that trouble if we've already got something.

http://beermapping.com/maps/citymaps.php?m=chicago

-- 
Sincerely,

Chris Calloway
http://www.secoora.org
office: 332 Chapman Hall   phone: (919) 599-3530
mail: Campus Box #3300, UNC-CH, Chapel Hill, NC 27599





From stcorbett at gmail.com  Thu Feb 14 18:08:08 2008
From: stcorbett at gmail.com (Sean Corbett)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 11:08:08 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Bar map?
In-Reply-To: <47B466F9.6010108@unc.edu>
References: <47B3C9E7.3010507@colorstudy.com> <47B466F9.6010108@unc.edu>
Message-ID: <b7391af90802140908y22ac009fjcc59529f56702a8e@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.drinktown.com/map.php?city=chicago

where the bars are at + when they are selling dollar beers!

-Sean Corbett

On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 10:06 AM, Chris Calloway <cbc at unc.edu> wrote:

> On 2/13/2008 11:56 PM, Ian Bicking wrote:
> > Did anyone ever make a map of bars?  If not I think I know someone who
> > is opinionated about blue line bars, but I don't want to ask him to go
> > to that trouble if we've already got something.
>
> http://beermapping.com/maps/citymaps.php?m=chicago
>
> --
> Sincerely,
>
> Chris Calloway
> http://www.secoora.org
> office: 332 Chapman Hall   phone: (919) 599-3530
> mail: Campus Box #3300, UNC-CH, Chapel Hill, NC 27599
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From carl at personnelware.com  Thu Feb 14 18:19:11 2008
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 11:19:11 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Bar map?
In-Reply-To: <b7391af90802140908y22ac009fjcc59529f56702a8e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47B3C9E7.3010507@colorstudy.com> <47B466F9.6010108@unc.edu>
	<b7391af90802140908y22ac009fjcc59529f56702a8e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47B4780F.5020802@personnelware.com>

closing time would be handy.

Sean Corbett wrote:
> http://www.drinktown.com/map.php?city=chicago
> 
> where the bars are at + when they are selling dollar beers!
> 
> -Sean Corbett
> 
> On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 10:06 AM, Chris Calloway <cbc at unc.edu 
> <mailto:cbc at unc.edu>> wrote:
> 
>     On 2/13/2008 11:56 PM, Ian Bicking wrote:
>      > Did anyone ever make a map of bars?  If not I think I know
>     someone who
>      > is opinionated about blue line bars, but I don't want to ask him
>     to go
>      > to that trouble if we've already got something.
> 
>     http://beermapping.com/maps/citymaps.php?m=chicago
> 
>     --
>     Sincerely,
> 
>     Chris Calloway
>     http://www.secoora.org
>     office: 332 Chapman Hall   phone: (919) 599-3530
>     mail: Campus Box #3300, UNC-CH, Chapel Hill, NC 27599
> 
> 
> 
> 
>     _______________________________________________
>     Chicago mailing list
>     Chicago at python.org <mailto:Chicago at python.org>
>     http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From stcorbett at gmail.com  Thu Feb 14 18:40:14 2008
From: stcorbett at gmail.com (Sean Corbett)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 11:40:14 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Bar map?
In-Reply-To: <47B4780F.5020802@personnelware.com>
References: <47B3C9E7.3010507@colorstudy.com> <47B466F9.6010108@unc.edu>
	<b7391af90802140908y22ac009fjcc59529f56702a8e@mail.gmail.com>
	<47B4780F.5020802@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <b7391af90802140940g48c9ae22od94249eb5e9e3f6b@mail.gmail.com>

The standard Chicago bar license is until 2AM.  There are a few 4AM bars in
each neighborhood.  All bars stay open an extra hour on Saturday nights!
(3AM/5AM)

If you're still drinking at 1:30, you'll be able to follow other people to
the nearest 4AM :)

-Sean Corbett
I know way too much about this topic

On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 11:19 AM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com>
wrote:

> closing time would be handy.
>
> Sean Corbett wrote:
> > http://www.drinktown.com/map.php?city=chicago
> >
> > where the bars are at + when they are selling dollar beers!
> >
> > -Sean Corbett
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 10:06 AM, Chris Calloway <cbc at unc.edu
> > <mailto:cbc at unc.edu>> wrote:
> >
> >     On 2/13/2008 11:56 PM, Ian Bicking wrote:
> >      > Did anyone ever make a map of bars?  If not I think I know
> >     someone who
> >      > is opinionated about blue line bars, but I don't want to ask him
> >     to go
> >      > to that trouble if we've already got something.
> >
> >     http://beermapping.com/maps/citymaps.php?m=chicago
> >
> >     --
> >     Sincerely,
> >
> >     Chris Calloway
> >     http://www.secoora.org
> >     office: 332 Chapman Hall   phone: (919) 599-3530
> >     mail: Campus Box #3300, UNC-CH, Chapel Hill, NC 27599
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >     _______________________________________________
> >     Chicago mailing list
> >     Chicago at python.org <mailto:Chicago at python.org>
> >     http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From tprinty at mail.edisonave.net  Fri Feb 15 17:48:04 2008
From: tprinty at mail.edisonave.net (Tom Printy)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 10:48:04 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Thanks
Message-ID: <1203094084.17048.7.camel@localhost>

I wanted to say thanks to everyone for a great meeting last night. This
was my first meeting but it will not be my last. 

-Tom


From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Fri Feb 15 22:29:18 2008
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 15:29:18 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Thanks
In-Reply-To: <1203094084.17048.7.camel@localhost>
References: <1203094084.17048.7.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0802151329t735d6278iac23e4c13d67953f@mail.gmail.com>

Agreed...great meeting.

Can any of the GIS-savvy folks on the list suggest some IRC channels
or mailing lists that are newbie friendly?  I just found a big list of
train track data from the BTS (I like trains) and I'm looking for tips
on how to get started playing with it.
http://www.bts.gov/publications/north_american_transportation_atlas_data/

Chris

On Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 10:48 AM, Tom Printy <tprinty at mail.edisonave.net> wrote:
> I wanted to say thanks to everyone for a great meeting last night. This
>  was my first meeting but it will not be my last.
>
>  -Tom
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Chicago mailing list
>  Chicago at python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From szybalski at gmail.com  Fri Feb 15 22:44:28 2008
From: szybalski at gmail.com (Lukasz Szybalski)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 15:44:28 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Thanks -datasets
Message-ID: <804e5c70802151344u6048d271lafbfd9ecafb406f4@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 3:29 PM, Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:
> Agreed...great meeting.
>
>  Can any of the GIS-savvy folks on the list suggest some IRC channels
>  or mailing lists that are newbie friendly?  I just found a big list of
>  train track data from the BTS (I like trains) and I'm looking for tips
>  on how to get started playing with it.
>  http://www.bts.gov/publications/north_american_transportation_atlas_data/

Interesting data set. Anybody know of any other interesting dataset in general?
If you know of one about cars that would be awsome.

Lucas



-- 
Vehicle Information Number. Check for Authentic VIN
http://lucasmanual.com/vin
TurboGears Documentation:
http://www.lucasmanual.com/mywiki/TurboGears

From paulsmith at pobox.com  Fri Feb 15 22:48:29 2008
From: paulsmith at pobox.com (Paul Smith)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 15:48:29 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Thanks
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0802151329t735d6278iac23e4c13d67953f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1203094084.17048.7.camel@localhost>
	<3096c19d0802151329t735d6278iac23e4c13d67953f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8c58fcec0802151348g27d7def0y630e93e04af439de@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for listening to my talk, everyone, I hope you got something
out of it. I'll clean up my demo code and post it this weekend
somewhere accessible.

The OpenLayers and Mapnik mailing lists are very friendly and high
signal-to-noise ratio. If you're interested in this stuff, definitely
get to know TIGER/Line, which is an incredible resource that our
federal government publishes for free (well, we pay for it, obviously,
so download it and get your money's worth.) The US Census, which
publishes TIGER/Line, claims that they will be coming out with
shapefiles of the data in March. Until then, as I mentioned in my
talk, ogr2ogr is your friend -- use it to translate from the raw
TIGER/Line format to shapefiles or PostGIS SQL or something else
that's easier to work with in your application.

Also poke around state and municipal government websites. If they have
a GIS department more often than not they've published something
consumable.

Cheers,
-Paul

On Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 3:29 PM, Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:
> Agreed...great meeting.
>
>  Can any of the GIS-savvy folks on the list suggest some IRC channels
>  or mailing lists that are newbie friendly?  I just found a big list of
>  train track data from the BTS (I like trains) and I'm looking for tips
>  on how to get started playing with it.
>  http://www.bts.gov/publications/north_american_transportation_atlas_data/
>
>  Chris
>
>
>
>  On Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 10:48 AM, Tom Printy <tprinty at mail.edisonave.net> wrote:
>  > I wanted to say thanks to everyone for a great meeting last night. This
>  >  was my first meeting but it will not be my last.
>  >
>  >  -Tom
>  >
>  >  _______________________________________________
>  >  Chicago mailing list
>  >  Chicago at python.org
>  >  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>  >
>  _______________________________________________
>  Chicago mailing list
>  Chicago at python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
Paul Smith
http://www.pauladamsmith.com/

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Fri Feb 15 23:25:25 2008
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:25:25 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] About Chicago & Local Restaurants
In-Reply-To: <6y7ih826sz.fsf@imagescape.com>
References: <3096c19d0802121245g2f5b6499r22c34c32b9098d28@mail.gmail.com>
	<4cf38240802121311t7a10ca17mb15f276dbd39a8e8@mail.gmail.com>
	<6y7ih826sz.fsf@imagescape.com>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0802151425u60913131r4a67c8c778d25487@mail.gmail.com>

The response to this thread wasn't exactly what I was expecting.
Anyone want to run with it?  The publisher is asking for submissions
by February 18th, this Monday.

It would be greatly appreciated if an enterprising ChiPy member would
step up and take a crack at the task.  I'm more than willing to
provide guidance and editorial review if necessary.  Just speak up and
run with it.

Chris

On Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 9:51 AM, Christopher Allan Webber
<cwebber at imagescape.com> wrote:
> Hot Doug's.
>
>  Okay, yeah it's a hot dog stand, but where else in the world can you
>  get rattlesnake sausage covered with blue cheese, chipotle mustard and
>  honey, with a side of duck fat fries?
>
>  http://www.hotdougs.com/specials.htm
>
>  Other than that, if you're in Andersonville or Lincoln Park (haven't
>  been to the Lincoln Park location yet myself), definetly check out
>  Icosium Cafe:
>
>  http://www.icosiumkafe.com/
>
>  It's crepes, but really frickin' good crepes.  Both of the sweet and
>  the more dinner-ish variety.  I haven't yet brought a guest to chicago
>  there who hasn't been impressed.
>
>
>
>
>
>  "Anthony Rubin" <anthony.r.rubin at gmail.com> writes:
>
>  > On Feb 12, 2008 2:45 PM, Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:
>  >> Hi All,
>  >>
>  >> We have a mission.  For Pycon, there's going to be a "publication,"
>  >> which sounds mysterious, but is actually just going to be a program.
>  >> We've been asked to supply two things, 1) About Chicago and 2) Local
>  >> Restaurants and Tourist Spots.
>  >>
>  >> We've had a gajillion of these discussions before, so pull out your
>  >> lists and respond to this email.  Tom Tobin and Sheila Kay (without
>  >> her knowing, hi Sheila!) have volunteered to pull the emails together
>  >> into a coherent lump, which will then be universally credited to
>  >> ChiPy.
>  >>
>  >> Does this make sense?  Start suggesting.
>  >>
>  >> Chris
>  >> _______________________________________________
>  >> Chicago mailing list
>  >> Chicago at python.org
>  >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>  >>
>  >
>  > I have a partial list here:
>  >
>  > http://del.icio.us/anthonyrubin/restaurant
>  >
>  > If I had to single out a few restaurants that are worth visiting while
>  > in Chicago:
>  >
>  > Frontera Grill - regional Mexican, James Beard award winner, Rick
>  > Bayless has a show on PBS
>  > Hopleaf - Belgian-style pub, amazing beer selection, amazing food
>  > Spoon Thai - Thai, be sure to get the Chicago tribune menu and the
>  > translated Thai menu
>  > Spacca Napoli - authentic Neapolitan style pizza and Italian
>  > Kuma's Corner - pub with metal theme, decent beer selection and
>  > interesting burgers named after metal bands
>  >
>  > I'll also mention that several chefs from higher end Chicago
>  > restaurants have been on Iron Chef America: Tru, Moto, Avenues.
>  >
>  > Anthony Rubin
>  > Chicago, IL
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > Chicago mailing list
>  > Chicago at python.org
>  > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>  _______________________________________________
>  Chicago mailing list
>  Chicago at python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From shekay at pobox.com  Sat Feb 16 01:00:56 2008
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 18:00:56 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] About Chicago & Local Restaurants
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0802151425u60913131r4a67c8c778d25487@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0802121245g2f5b6499r22c34c32b9098d28@mail.gmail.com>
	<4cf38240802121311t7a10ca17mb15f276dbd39a8e8@mail.gmail.com>
	<6y7ih826sz.fsf@imagescape.com>
	<3096c19d0802151425u60913131r4a67c8c778d25487@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a68ced640802151600v381415cfpd3cf8486294a33f8@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 15, 2008 4:25 PM, Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:
> The response to this thread wasn't exactly what I was expecting.
> Anyone want to run with it?  The publisher is asking for submissions
> by February 18th, this Monday.
>
> It would be greatly appreciated if an enterprising ChiPy member would
> step up and take a crack at the task.  I'm more than willing to
> provide guidance and editorial review if necessary.  Just speak up and
> run with it.
>
>

Holy crap. The deadline is Monday? I thought we had a lot longer.


-- 
sheila

From skip at pobox.com  Sat Feb 16 02:44:20 2008
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 19:44:20 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] About Chicago & Local Restaurants
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0802151425u60913131r4a67c8c778d25487@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0802121245g2f5b6499r22c34c32b9098d28@mail.gmail.com>
	<4cf38240802121311t7a10ca17mb15f276dbd39a8e8@mail.gmail.com>
	<6y7ih826sz.fsf@imagescape.com>
	<3096c19d0802151425u60913131r4a67c8c778d25487@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <18358.16372.26259.731794@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>


    Chris> The response to this thread wasn't exactly what I was expecting.
    Chris> Anyone want to run with it?  The publisher is asking for
    Chris> submissions by February 18th, this Monday.

    Chris> It would be greatly appreciated if an enterprising ChiPy member
    Chris> would step up and take a crack at the task.  I'm more than
    Chris> willing to provide guidance and editorial review if necessary.
    Chris> Just speak up and run with it.

I don't know if I will have any time over the weekend, but I will try to go
back over what I've done so far and see if I have any further inputs
squirreled away.

Skip

From skip at pobox.com  Sat Feb 16 03:02:26 2008
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 20:02:26 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Give me some restaurant & Chicago info inputs
Message-ID: <18358.17458.435806.182051@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>


******
Anyone want to help?  If so, drop me a note (skip at pobox.com) or give me a
call (847-971-7098) over the weekend.
******

Okay, on the ChiPy list Chris McAvoy wrote:

    We have a mission.  For Pycon, there's going to be a "publication,"
    which sounds mysterious, but is actually just going to be a program.
    We've been asked to supply two things, 1) About Chicago and 2) Local
    Restaurants and Tourist Spots.

    We've had a gajillion of these discussions before, so pull out your
    lists and respond to this email.  Tom Tobin and Sheila Kay (without her
    knowing, hi Sheila!) have volunteered to pull the emails together into a
    coherent lump, which will then be universally credited to ChiPy.

    Does this make sense?  Start suggesting.

I'm going to try to take another crack at this over the weekend.  From you
ChiPy types, send me some info.  From non-Chicago PyCon types, if you have
any opinions about what sort of info you'd like to see, let me know.

To stimulate your thoughts, here's what we have so far on the PyCon website:

    http://us.pycon.org/2008/chicago/restaurants/
    http://us.pycon.org/2008/chicago/explore/
    http://us.pycon.org/2008/chicago/transit/
    http://us.pycon.org/2008/chicago/shopping/
    http://us.pycon.org/2008/chicago/hotel/

Some questions for the out-of-towners:

    * Do you care about cheap eats?  What about the four-star joints
      (e.g. Charlie Trotter's)?  What about "icons" like Pizzeria Uno, Harry
      Caray's or Ed Debevic's (all of which I suspect most locals would
      steer clear of)?
    * Do you plan to do any siteseeing?  What's your taste?  Museums (we
      have a ton)?  Normal gawker stuff (Sears Tower, Navy Pier, Michigan
      Avenue)?
    * Transportation info - getting around by car? by CTA (bus & rail)?

Skip

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Sat Feb 16 03:16:41 2008
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (chris.mcavoy at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 20:16:41 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] About Chicago & Local Restaurants
In-Reply-To: <a68ced640802151600v381415cfpd3cf8486294a33f8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0802121245g2f5b6499r22c34c32b9098d28@mail.gmail.com>
	<4cf38240802121311t7a10ca17mb15f276dbd39a8e8@mail.gmail.com>
	<6y7ih826sz.fsf@imagescape.com>
	<3096c19d0802151425u60913131r4a67c8c778d25487@mail.gmail.com>
	<a68ced640802151600v381415cfpd3cf8486294a33f8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0802151816t3d58ad67ide6f6c7e2bad3f9a@mail.gmail.com>

Yeah sorry, just found out.

On 2/15/08, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
> On Feb 15, 2008 4:25 PM, Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:
> > The response to this thread wasn't exactly what I was expecting.
> > Anyone want to run with it? The publisher is asking for submissions
> > by February 18th, this Monday.
> >
> > It would be greatly appreciated if an enterprising ChiPy member would
> > step up and take a crack at the task. I'm more than willing to
> > provide guidance and editorial review if necessary. Just speak up and
> > run with it.
> >
> >
>
> Holy crap. The deadline is Monday? I thought we had a lot longer.
>
>
> --
> sheila
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From van.lindberg at gmail.com  Sat Feb 16 16:05:22 2008
From: van.lindberg at gmail.com (VanL)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 09:05:22 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] [PyCON-Organizers] Give me some restaurant & Chicago
	info inputs
In-Reply-To: <18358.17458.435806.182051@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
References: <18358.17458.435806.182051@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
Message-ID: <47B6FBB2.2040703@gmail.com>

skip at pobox.com wrote:
> Some questions for the out-of-towners:
>
>     * Do you care about cheap eats?  What about the four-star joints
>       (e.g. Charlie Trotter's)?  What about "icons" like Pizzeria Uno, Harry
>       Caray's or Ed Debevic's (all of which I suspect most locals would
>       steer clear of)?
>     * Do you plan to do any siteseeing?  What's your taste?  Museums (we
>       have a ton)?  Normal gawker stuff (Sears Tower, Navy Pier, Michigan
>       Avenue)?
>     * Transportation info - getting around by car? by CTA (bus & rail)?
>   
Yes, yes, and yes - but personally I would prioritize my interest by 
distance. For example, I wouldn't want to go all over Chicago for the 
"greatest pizza ever," but I might go if it were two stops down the Ell.

I would guess that this ease-of-transportation issue would be common, so 
if possible, I would include with each item basic transportation 
directions. ("Getting there: Get on the Ell heading south, go three 
stops to Belvedere station, and walk one block east to the corner of 
Acorn Street and Rhode Road")

- Van
> Skip
> _______________________________________________
> Pycon-organizers mailing list
> Pycon-organizers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pycon-organizers
>   


From skip at pobox.com  Sat Feb 16 16:19:55 2008
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 09:19:55 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] [PyCON-Organizers] Give me some restaurant & Chicago
	info inputs
In-Reply-To: <47B6FBB2.2040703@gmail.com>
References: <18358.17458.435806.182051@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
	<47B6FBB2.2040703@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <18358.65307.62058.455371@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>


    Van> I would guess that this ease-of-transportation issue would be
    Van> common, so if possible, I would include with each item basic
    Van> transportation directions. ("Getting there: Get on the Ell heading
    Van> south, go three stops to Belvedere station, and walk one block east
    Van> to the corner of Acorn Street and Rhode Road")

Would Google Maps links be sufficient for non-CTA trips?

Skip

From pfein at pobox.com  Sat Feb 16 19:11:22 2008
From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 13:11:22 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Thanks -datasets
In-Reply-To: <804e5c70802151344u6048d271lafbfd9ecafb406f4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <804e5c70802151344u6048d271lafbfd9ecafb406f4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200802161311.22435.pfein@pobox.com>

On Friday February 15 2008 4:44:28 pm Lukasz Szybalski wrote:
> Interesting data set. Anybody know of any other interesting dataset in
> general? If you know of one about cars that would be awsome.

Here's a big list: 
http://www.datawrangling.com/some-datasets-available-on-the-web.html

-- 
Peter Fein   ||   773-575-0694   ||   pfein at pobox.com
http://www.pobox.com/~pfein/   ||   PGP: 0xCCF6AE6B
irc: pfein at freenode.net   ||   jabber: peter.fein at gmail.com

From shekay at pobox.com  Sat Feb 16 21:05:49 2008
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 14:05:49 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ride sharing
Message-ID: <a68ced640802161205g5ea69ef2me60bbab36f0bdfa5@mail.gmail.com>

Let's have a way to tag pycon profile member pages so that someone
could tag their profile with things like "carpooling" and so on and
then on the Chicago section of the pycon site provide click search
queries that query for member profiles tagged with carpooling, or
imgoingforpizzasaturday.

-- 
sheila

From carl at personnelware.com  Sun Feb 17 00:05:01 2008
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 17:05:01 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] need C help for my PyCon project
Message-ID: <47B76C1D.8070208@personnelware.com>

I am looking for help with a Video4Linux2 driver, which is C code.

I am trying to get a piece of hardware working with trascode.
hardware: http://www.epiphan.com/products/product.php?pid=66
http://www.transcoding.org

transcode has both v4l and v4l2 support. the vga grabber has a v4l driver, but 
both it and tc's v4l are iffy.  The main transcode developer recommended using v4l2

I was able to capture 1 screen per second at last weeks Python user group 
meeting.  I was able to make a 60mb avi from that.  So I have a good start, but 
there is room for improvement.

If I can get this working, I can give people who help everything that happens at 
PyCon - probably 50-100gig of avi files.  I'll send you on DVDs so you don't 
have to download it all.

/join #chipy on freenode and I'll show you what I have so far.  (currently the 
60mb avi - soon to grow when I add audio tomorrow.)

Carl K

From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com  Sun Feb 17 00:17:59 2008
From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 17:17:59 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Thanks -datasets
In-Reply-To: <804e5c70802151344u6048d271lafbfd9ecafb406f4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <804e5c70802151344u6048d271lafbfd9ecafb406f4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b571660a0802161517o1eaec004sc91474caa641815a@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 15, 2008 3:44 PM, Lukasz Szybalski <szybalski at gmail.com> wrote:
> Interesting data set. Anybody know of any other interesting dataset in general?
> If you know of one about cars that would be awsome.

Programmable Web is a nice collection of online web services and sites
that make use of them (what they call "mashups"):
http://programmableweb.com/

Doesn't seem to be anything automotive-related though:
http://programmableweb.com/apis/directory/1?sort=category

From korpios at korpios.com  Sun Feb 17 02:33:37 2008
From: korpios at korpios.com (Tom Tobin)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 19:33:37 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] About Chicago & Local Restaurants
In-Reply-To: <a68ced640802151600v381415cfpd3cf8486294a33f8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0802121245g2f5b6499r22c34c32b9098d28@mail.gmail.com>
	<4cf38240802121311t7a10ca17mb15f276dbd39a8e8@mail.gmail.com>
	<6y7ih826sz.fsf@imagescape.com>
	<3096c19d0802151425u60913131r4a67c8c778d25487@mail.gmail.com>
	<a68ced640802151600v381415cfpd3cf8486294a33f8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bf0b20a90802161733r12204bfued571c4759dd6775@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/15/08, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
> On Feb 15, 2008 4:25 PM, Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:
> > The response to this thread wasn't exactly what I was expecting.
> > Anyone want to run with it?  The publisher is asking for submissions
> > by February 18th, this Monday.
> >
> > It would be greatly appreciated if an enterprising ChiPy member would
> > step up and take a crack at the task.  I'm more than willing to
> > provide guidance and editorial review if necessary.  Just speak up and
> > run with it.
> >
> >
>
> Holy crap. The deadline is Monday? I thought we had a lot longer.

Eeep.  I don't know if I really have anything to work with(!).

From shekay at pobox.com  Sun Feb 17 03:00:28 2008
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 20:00:28 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] About Chicago & Local Restaurants
In-Reply-To: <bf0b20a90802161733r12204bfued571c4759dd6775@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0802121245g2f5b6499r22c34c32b9098d28@mail.gmail.com>
	<4cf38240802121311t7a10ca17mb15f276dbd39a8e8@mail.gmail.com>
	<6y7ih826sz.fsf@imagescape.com>
	<3096c19d0802151425u60913131r4a67c8c778d25487@mail.gmail.com>
	<a68ced640802151600v381415cfpd3cf8486294a33f8@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf0b20a90802161733r12204bfued571c4759dd6775@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a68ced640802161800y37aab8en333e9e02c0e366ef@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 16, 2008 7:33 PM, Tom Tobin <korpios at korpios.com> wrote:
> On 2/15/08, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 15, 2008 4:25 PM, Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > The response to this thread wasn't exactly what I was expecting.
> > > Anyone want to run with it?  The publisher is asking for submissions
> > > by February 18th, this Monday.
> > >
> > > It would be greatly appreciated if an enterprising ChiPy member would
> > > step up and take a crack at the task.  I'm more than willing to
> > > provide guidance and editorial review if necessary.  Just speak up and
> > > run with it.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Holy crap. The deadline is Monday? I thought we had a lot longer.
>
> Eeep.  I don't know if I really have anything to work with(!).

I haven't started anything yet. If you go over our list archives there
will be some discussions about eating and such, just not so much in
this thread. the wiki has some things too.

I thought we had longer.


-- 
sheila

From carl at personnelware.com  Sun Feb 17 03:27:12 2008
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 20:27:12 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] C help for my PyCon project
Message-ID: <47B79B80.2000106@personnelware.com>

Mike,

I asked for help, and was told:

"Kenneth P. Stox" <ken at stox.org>
 > Contact Mike Isely <isely at isely.net>, he might be able to help. He wrote
 > some of the USB Video capture drivers. In fact, I think he wrote the
 > original USB video capture drivers.

I am looking for donated (free) help with a Video4Linux2 driver, and possibly 
the application code that works with it.

details here: http://chipy.org/V4l2forPyCon (I would cut/paste/send, but will 
probably add more to that page after I eat dinner.)

Also, you may want to see the 60mb file I mention:
http://road.fiftyfive.com/~carl/torrents/chipy090214.avi.torrent
That is not the final product, but does show what I am currently capable of.

Carl K


From carl at personnelware.com  Sun Feb 17 03:47:59 2008
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 20:47:59 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] C help for my PyCon project
In-Reply-To: <47B79B80.2000106@personnelware.com>
References: <47B79B80.2000106@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <47B7A05F.5070205@personnelware.com>

Oh hell.  This not spozed to go to the list.

Please don't dl the avi unless you are interested in helping with the project.

Carl K

From warren.lindsey at gmail.com  Sun Feb 17 04:19:28 2008
From: warren.lindsey at gmail.com (Warren Lindsey)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 21:19:28 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Thanks -datasets
In-Reply-To: <804e5c70802151344u6048d271lafbfd9ecafb406f4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <804e5c70802151344u6048d271lafbfd9ecafb406f4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <841e880a0802161919o7ee54169s279d1c366eee1af6@mail.gmail.com>

You can see realtime traffic data for Chicagoland, Wisconsin, and
Indiana at the http://gcmtravel.org website.  Select at least one
route under the MyTravel link and you'll see only that road data for
current travel times, detector data, congestion, etc.  Clicking around
will take you to graphs of historical data at
http://www.gcmtravelstats.com/

I wrote a script to scrape these pages for travel times on 290, but it
has since broken.  This data used to be served as txt files but that
went away when they introduced the MyTravel datasets.

If you request application/developer access then there is an XML feed
available.

Following the GIS topic, you could take the detector data which tracks
the speed of cars passing over a certain point, and plot that on your
own map.  I had aspired to do this but GoogleMaps now does this and I
lost interest when I stopped driving to work.  This data could also be
used to compute ETA from some point along the route and knowing that
there is a slowdown ahead.

Also of interest are links to live traffic cameras scattered about.  I
think they update every 5 minutes.

Cheers,
Warren

On Feb 15, 2008 3:44 PM, Lukasz Szybalski <szybalski at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 3:29 PM, Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Agreed...great meeting.
> >
> >  Can any of the GIS-savvy folks on the list suggest some IRC channels
> >  or mailing lists that are newbie friendly?  I just found a big list of
> >  train track data from the BTS (I like trains) and I'm looking for tips
> >  on how to get started playing with it.
> >  http://www.bts.gov/publications/north_american_transportation_atlas_data/
>
> Interesting data set. Anybody know of any other interesting dataset in general?
> If you know of one about cars that would be awsome.
>
> Lucas
>
>
>
> --
> Vehicle Information Number. Check for Authentic VIN
> http://lucasmanual.com/vin
> TurboGears Documentation:
> http://www.lucasmanual.com/mywiki/TurboGears
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From warren.lindsey at gmail.com  Sun Feb 17 04:32:31 2008
From: warren.lindsey at gmail.com (Warren Lindsey)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 21:32:31 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Give me some restaurant & Chicago info inputs
In-Reply-To: <18358.17458.435806.182051@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
References: <18358.17458.435806.182051@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
Message-ID: <841e880a0802161932q775ce2b8w1a496ffcfe3741e6@mail.gmail.com>

Check out the http://www.centerstage.net/virtual-el/blue.cfm website
for things to do along your el route of choice.  This link is for the
blue line and clicking on each station stop will list bars,
restaurants, shows, art galleries, and more.  These then link to
locations and reviews.

HTH,
Warren

On Feb 15, 2008 8:02 PM,  <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
>
> ******
> Anyone want to help?  If so, drop me a note (skip at pobox.com) or give me a
> call (847-971-7098) over the weekend.
> ******
>
> Okay, on the ChiPy list Chris McAvoy wrote:
>
>     We have a mission.  For Pycon, there's going to be a "publication,"
>     which sounds mysterious, but is actually just going to be a program.
>     We've been asked to supply two things, 1) About Chicago and 2) Local
>     Restaurants and Tourist Spots.
>
>     We've had a gajillion of these discussions before, so pull out your
>     lists and respond to this email.  Tom Tobin and Sheila Kay (without her
>     knowing, hi Sheila!) have volunteered to pull the emails together into a
>     coherent lump, which will then be universally credited to ChiPy.
>
>     Does this make sense?  Start suggesting.
>
> I'm going to try to take another crack at this over the weekend.  From you
> ChiPy types, send me some info.  From non-Chicago PyCon types, if you have
> any opinions about what sort of info you'd like to see, let me know.
>
> To stimulate your thoughts, here's what we have so far on the PyCon website:
>
>     http://us.pycon.org/2008/chicago/restaurants/
>     http://us.pycon.org/2008/chicago/explore/
>     http://us.pycon.org/2008/chicago/transit/
>     http://us.pycon.org/2008/chicago/shopping/
>     http://us.pycon.org/2008/chicago/hotel/
>
> Some questions for the out-of-towners:
>
>     * Do you care about cheap eats?  What about the four-star joints
>       (e.g. Charlie Trotter's)?  What about "icons" like Pizzeria Uno, Harry
>       Caray's or Ed Debevic's (all of which I suspect most locals would
>       steer clear of)?
>     * Do you plan to do any siteseeing?  What's your taste?  Museums (we
>       have a ton)?  Normal gawker stuff (Sears Tower, Navy Pier, Michigan
>       Avenue)?
>     * Transportation info - getting around by car? by CTA (bus & rail)?
>
> Skip
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From pfein at pobox.com  Sun Feb 17 05:53:00 2008
From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 23:53:00 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] need C help for my PyCon project
In-Reply-To: <47B76C1D.8070208@personnelware.com>
References: <47B76C1D.8070208@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <200802162353.00772.pfein@pobox.com>

On Saturday February 16 2008 6:05:01 pm Carl Karsten wrote:
> I am trying to get a piece of hardware working with trascode.

When faced with obstinate hardware on linux, the best solution is often to get 
new hardware.

> If I can get this working, I can give people who help everything that
> happens at PyCon - probably 50-100gig of avi files.  I'll send you on DVDs
> so you don't have to download it all.

If you need to convert/post-process/serve such beasts, you might think about 
using Amazon's Web Services (EC2/S3).  CPU-time by the hour + fast 
http/bittorent downloads.  There was an article on doing exactly this with 
python on their developer network: 
http://developer.amazonwebservices.com/connect/entry.jspa?entryID=691

-- 
Peter Fein   ||   773-575-0694   ||   pfein at pobox.com
http://www.pobox.com/~pfein/   ||   PGP: 0xCCF6AE6B
irc: pfein at freenode.net   ||   jabber: peter.fein at gmail.com

From mandric at gmail.com  Sun Feb 17 07:36:27 2008
From: mandric at gmail.com (Milan Andric)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 00:36:27 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] need C help for my PyCon project
In-Reply-To: <200802162353.00772.pfein@pobox.com>
References: <47B76C1D.8070208@personnelware.com>
	<200802162353.00772.pfein@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <536089f30802162236i44bedcf3ve2768a25592b67b2@mail.gmail.com>

Did you see the last comment? ... holy cow.

"I don't know any web developers who use Python (not that it's a bad language)."

Apparently Amazon does!

--
Milan

On Sat, Feb 16, 2008 at 10:53 PM, Pete <pfein at pobox.com> wrote:
> On Saturday February 16 2008 6:05:01 pm Carl Karsten wrote:
>  > I am trying to get a piece of hardware working with trascode.
>
>  When faced with obstinate hardware on linux, the best solution is often to get
>  new hardware.
>
>  > If I can get this working, I can give people who help everything that
>  > happens at PyCon - probably 50-100gig of avi files.  I'll send you on DVDs
>  > so you don't have to download it all.
>
>  If you need to convert/post-process/serve such beasts, you might think about
>  using Amazon's Web Services (EC2/S3).  CPU-time by the hour + fast
>  http/bittorent downloads.  There was an article on doing exactly this with
>  python on their developer network:
>  http://developer.amazonwebservices.com/connect/entry.jspa?entryID=691
>
>  --
>  Peter Fein   ||   773-575-0694   ||   pfein at pobox.com
>  http://www.pobox.com/~pfein/   ||   PGP: 0xCCF6AE6B
>  irc: pfein at freenode.net   ||   jabber: peter.fein at gmail.com
>  _______________________________________________
>  Chicago mailing list
>  Chicago at python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
Milan

From sirgnip at gmail.com  Sun Feb 17 18:14:52 2008
From: sirgnip at gmail.com (Scott Nelson)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 11:14:52 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] First time Pycon questions
Message-ID: <2682ac9b0802170914k1584431ke05317aeb70ab007@mail.gmail.com>

Greets...

I've lurked on ChiPy for awhile and am breaking my radio silence to
ask a question about PyCon08.  I'm thinking of attending this year and
one of the things I want to do is learn how Python is being used in
the Chicago area.  So, concrete questions:

#1 - Tips for meeting ChiPy people at ChiPy, in addition to BeerBoF?
#2 - Where do the informal, hanging out kinda things happen at PyCon?
Lightning Talks?  Open Space?  lunch?  hallway?
#3 - I remember reading somewhere that there is going to be a ChiPy
meeting the Thursday of PyCon?  Will this be at the Crowne Plaza?
#4 - The site mentions that people are hiring on the expo floor.  Can
someone give me an idea of the scope of this?  Is it just Google and
MS?  Or, are there more?

I'm askin' these questions because I've never been to PyCon and not
sure what to expect and I'm thinking about a career change (closer to
Python, edging away from c++) and figured PyCon would be a great way
to do some initial research.

Thanks for any tidbits you can throw my way...

-Scott

From skip at pobox.com  Mon Feb 18 01:50:14 2008
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 18:50:14 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Restaurants - vegetarian, vegan, kosher, halal?
Message-ID: <18360.54854.688855.915167@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>


Since not everyone will be into beer, burgers and pizza I'd like to list
some options for people with various dietary restrictions (vegetarian,
vegan, kosher, halal, etc) on the restaurants page:

    http://us.pycon.org/2008/chicago/restaurants/

The only restaurant I currently have on the list is Amitabul, a vegan Korean
restaurant.  I have no personal experience with it, and only added it
because it got such a good review on Metromix.

If you have any specific suggestions, let me know.

Thx,

Skip Montanaro

From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com  Mon Feb 18 02:13:00 2008
From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 19:13:00 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Restaurants - vegetarian, vegan, kosher, halal?
In-Reply-To: <18360.54854.688855.915167@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
References: <18360.54854.688855.915167@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
Message-ID: <b571660a0802171713k4207b12cuf6ba47f99fd0825e@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 17, 2008 6:50 PM,  <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
>
> Since not everyone will be into beer, burgers and pizza I'd like to list
> some options for people with various dietary restrictions (vegetarian,
> vegan, kosher, halal, etc) on the restaurants page:
>
>     http://us.pycon.org/2008/chicago/restaurants/
>
> The only restaurant I currently have on the list is Amitabul, a vegan Korean
> restaurant.  I have no personal experience with it, and only added it
> because it got such a good review on Metromix.

I'm not sure what one should make of this, but the worst food I've
ever had was at Amitabul.  It tasted like cardboard and I honestly
couldn't believe vegan food could be made this bad (I love vegan food
and have had many good meals at Chicago Diner and many spots in NY).
This could've been a fluke but there are some similar experiences
posted on yelp:
http://www.yelp.com/biz/amitabul-chicago-2
... yet it still gets 4 stars on yelp and got that good review on
Metromix which I find mind-boggling.

>
> If you have any specific suggestions, let me know.

I think the most useful restaurant listings will be ones off the Blue
Line since I presume most people will want to take the train.  I sent
in a list of all the Blue Line restaurants I know but that only
covered the Logan Square, Damen, and Division stops.  Hopefully some
other people know of some more, perhaps off the stops closer to
O'Hare.

-Kumar


>
> Thx,
>
> Skip Montanaro
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From bob.haugen at gmail.com  Mon Feb 18 02:50:27 2008
From: bob.haugen at gmail.com (Bob Haugen)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 19:50:27 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Carpool from Oak Park area?
Message-ID: <343ecb3e0802171750m656be432gfad0c47b03e64995@mail.gmail.com>

I'd be happy to ride or drive and share the parking fee, if anybody
else lives out this way.

Cd take the blue line, but it's a long long round trip, from one far
end to the other.

From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 18 03:00:54 2008
From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 18:00:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Chicago] First time Pycon questions
In-Reply-To: <2682ac9b0802170914k1584431ke05317aeb70ab007@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <370234.19109.qm@web34802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

My responses are below.

--- Scott Nelson <sirgnip at gmail.com> wrote:

> Greets...
> 
> I've lurked on ChiPy for awhile and am breaking my radio silence to
> ask a question about PyCon08.  I'm thinking of attending this year
> and
> one of the things I want to do is learn how Python is being used in
> the Chicago area.  So, concrete questions:
> 
> #1 - Tips for meeting ChiPy people at ChiPy, in addition to
> BeerBoF?

I was in a similar position last year, where I didn't really know
anyone before the conference, but I quickly found out that ChiPy
people are really friendly. Besides  BeerBoF, I would just recommend
reshuffling your schedule to come to meetings on a regular basis.
It's a 3-hour round-trip to Chicago for me, but I think it's totally
worth it.

> #2 - Where do the informal, hanging out kinda things happen at
> PyCon?
> Lightning Talks?  Open Space?  lunch?  hallway?

During the lunch break, after the lightning talks, Birds of a Feather
events, etc.

> #3 - I remember reading somewhere that there is going to be a ChiPy
> meeting the Thursday of PyCon?  Will this be at the Crowne Plaza?

I don't know any details, but since I will be there on Thursday for
the tutorials, I'll definitely show up for it. Just stay tuned to the
mailing list, I guess.

> #4 - The site mentions that people are hiring on the expo floor. 
> Can
> someone give me an idea of the scope of this?  Is it just Google
> and
> MS?  Or, are there more?

People who are recruiting are not shy about advertising about it.
It's not just big companies, it's also random dudes handing out
business cards. Just keep your eyes and ears open. Especially catch
all the lightning talks, because all the sponsors are entitled to a
lightning talk, and presenters usually mention whether their company
is hiring or not.

> I'm askin' these questions because I've never been to PyCon and not
> sure what to expect and I'm thinking about a career change (closer
> to
> Python, edging away from c++) and figured PyCon would be a great
> way
> to do some initial research.
> 
> Thanks for any tidbits you can throw my way...
> 
> -Scott
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

From skip at pobox.com  Mon Feb 18 03:13:49 2008
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 20:13:49 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Restaurants - vegetarian, vegan, kosher, halal?
In-Reply-To: <b571660a0802171713k4207b12cuf6ba47f99fd0825e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <18360.54854.688855.915167@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
	<b571660a0802171713k4207b12cuf6ba47f99fd0825e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <18360.59869.146668.156411@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>


    >> The only restaurant I currently have on the list is Amitabul, a vegan
    >> Korean restaurant.  I have no personal experience with it, and only
    >> added it because it got such a good review on Metromix.

    Kumar> I'm not sure what one should make of this, but the worst food
    Kumar> I've ever had was at Amitabul.  It tasted like cardboard and I
    Kumar> honestly couldn't believe vegan food could be made this bad (I
    Kumar> love vegan food and have had many good meals at Chicago Diner and
    Kumar> many spots in NY).  

As I indicated, I don't have any personal experience.  This is the problem I
have with people who just say, "Just provide links to
Metromix/Yelp/Whatever".  There is too much to choose from.  I would much
rather list restaurants people have personal experience with.

Skip

From pfein at pobox.com  Mon Feb 18 04:25:04 2008
From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 22:25:04 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Restaurants - vegetarian, vegan, kosher, halal?
In-Reply-To: <b571660a0802171713k4207b12cuf6ba47f99fd0825e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <18360.54854.688855.915167@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
	<b571660a0802171713k4207b12cuf6ba47f99fd0825e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200802172225.04569.pfein@pobox.com>

On Sunday February 17 2008 8:13:00 pm Kumar McMillan wrote:
> I'm not sure what one should make of this, but the worst food I've
> ever had was at Amitabul.  It tasted like cardboard and I honestly
> couldn't believe vegan food could be made this bad (I love vegan food
> and have had many good meals at Chicago Diner and many spots in NY).

By contrast, I think the food at Amitabul is fantastic and the Chicago Diner 
tastes like cardboard. YMMV.

-- 
Peter Fein   ||   773-575-0694   ||   pfein at pobox.com
http://www.pobox.com/~pfein/   ||   PGP: 0xCCF6AE6B
irc: pfein at freenode.net   ||   jabber: peter.fein at gmail.com

From korpios at korpios.com  Mon Feb 18 04:41:27 2008
From: korpios at korpios.com (Tom Tobin)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 21:41:27 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Carpool from Oak Park area?
In-Reply-To: <343ecb3e0802171750m656be432gfad0c47b03e64995@mail.gmail.com>
References: <343ecb3e0802171750m656be432gfad0c47b03e64995@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bf0b20a90802171941v3d88f40g24c18e1e7fe0ca4@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/17/08, Bob Haugen <bob.haugen at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'd be happy to ride or drive and share the parking fee, if anybody
> else lives out this way.
>
> Cd take the blue line, but it's a long long round trip, from one far
> end to the other.

I'm in Oak Park, but I'll likely just take the Blue Line since I hate
driving (and I live only a couple of blocks from the Oak Park stop).
The ride isn't that bad if you have something to read.  ^_^

From mtobis at gmail.com  Mon Feb 18 05:21:03 2008
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 22:21:03 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Restaurants - vegetarian, vegan, kosher, halal?
In-Reply-To: <18360.59869.146668.156411@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
References: <18360.54854.688855.915167@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
	<b571660a0802171713k4207b12cuf6ba47f99fd0825e@mail.gmail.com>
	<18360.59869.146668.156411@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
Message-ID: <c3aa55550802172021he3965ebm672066d9620afa8a@mail.gmail.com>

I have an opinion about what Chicago Diner food tastes like and I
think "cardboard" is awfully generous but it does seem that
vegetarians swear by it.

Udupi on Devon is a vegetarian South Indian restaurant that I very
much enjoy  and personally recommend.

I would like to see a couple of recommendations in each of the
following categories; herewith my own.

Having been gone only a year hopefully these are current.

CHEAP MEXICAN
El Mariachi in Lakeview

MIDRANGE MEXICAN
Nuevo Mexico in Lakeview

UPSCALE MEXICAN
Frontera of course, expensive

NOUVELLE ASIAN
Lulu's in Evanston, midrange

CHINESE
Phoenix in Chinatown, midrange

SUSHI
Katsu in some godforsaken corner of West Peterson; very expensive but
worth it if you can manage it

UPSCALE ITALIAN
Panna Cotta on the Gold Coast expensive
Gioco in South Loop expensive

PIZZA/CHEAP ITALIAN
Calo in Andersonville

STEAKS
?

BURGERS
?

CAJUN
Heaven on Seven, N Michigan, midrange

DOGS
The Weiner's Circle, Lincoln Park, cheap

OPEN LATE
Nookie's, Lakeview, moderate price, huge menu, good food

THAI
Yes Thai, Andersonville or so... a bargain

VEGETARIAN
Udupi, Devon, cheap South Indian veggie

DELI
Barnum and Bagel (in Skokie, I think)

Aargh. So little time. So much to eat! Unfortunately none of the above
especially blue-line/Kennedy friendly. Hope it helps though.

mt

From skip at pobox.com  Mon Feb 18 14:34:13 2008
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:34:13 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] We need help with the Program Guide
In-Reply-To: <f08f4fbb0802170201h56b1af10i9e947333e345a23b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47B5D381.8040506@gmail.com>
	<f08f4fbb0802170201h56b1af10i9e947333e345a23b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <18361.35157.507325.699070@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>

I just uploaded a simple restaurants guide.  I couldn't understand the
linter's error message so I just uploaded what I had.  What are they looking
for in the "About Chicago" page?  Can some other ChiPy person take a crack
at that?

Skip

From szybalski at gmail.com  Mon Feb 18 16:07:40 2008
From: szybalski at gmail.com (Lukasz Szybalski)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 09:07:40 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Thanks -datasets
In-Reply-To: <200802161311.22435.pfein@pobox.com>
References: <804e5c70802151344u6048d271lafbfd9ecafb406f4@mail.gmail.com>
	<200802161311.22435.pfein@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <804e5c70802180707j377b5593m6c81c78c1e532506@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 16, 2008 12:11 PM, Pete <pfein at pobox.com> wrote:
> On Friday February 15 2008 4:44:28 pm Lukasz Szybalski wrote:
> > Interesting data set. Anybody know of any other interesting dataset in
> > general? If you know of one about cars that would be awsome.
>
> Here's a big list:
> http://www.datawrangling.com/some-datasets-available-on-the-web.html
>

One of the links you guys posted got me to:

http://theinfo.org/

Useful site.

Lucas

From varmaa at gmail.com  Mon Feb 18 16:43:15 2008
From: varmaa at gmail.com (Atul Varma)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 09:43:15 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] [PyCON-Organizers] We need help with the Program Guide
In-Reply-To: <18361.35157.507325.699070@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
References: <47B5D381.8040506@gmail.com>
	<f08f4fbb0802170201h56b1af10i9e947333e345a23b@mail.gmail.com>
	<18361.35157.507325.699070@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
Message-ID: <361b27370802180743g594b66d9p6d90f472b96e32e8@mail.gmail.com>

Sure, I can try my hand at an About Chicago page.  I assume it should
contain a bit about our glorious city's varied history, which I will indulge
myself in the telling of.

- Atul

On Feb 18, 2008 7:34 AM, <skip at pobox.com> wrote:

> I just uploaded a simple restaurants guide.  I couldn't understand the
> linter's error message so I just uploaded what I had.  What are they
> looking
> for in the "About Chicago" page?  Can some other ChiPy person take a crack
> at that?
>
> Skip
> _______________________________________________
> Pycon-organizers mailing list
> Pycon-organizers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pycon-organizers
>
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From mikeferrari8 at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 18 18:11:11 2008
From: mikeferrari8 at yahoo.com (Mike Ferrari)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 11:11:11 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] PyCon first timer
Message-ID: <40d606460802180911w59226844t916435b8a1f6673d@mail.gmail.com>

Hi
I am a lurker on this list, been playing with python for a little while,
just signed up for the PyCon and a couple tutorials. I just wanted to thank
all the local ChiPy folks for doing all the hard work and organizing the
conference. Its a huge monumental task and a ton of strain and deserves a
great big pat on the back. Its awesome that you all could get together and
create a great opportunity for noobs like me to get our feet wet, learn
something and meet and greet some cool people.

So, Thanks A Ton!

I am a big fan of great beer for the PyBeerBoF folks, but whenever i am in
that neighborhood (on River Road) i have to stop in and have a Singapore
Sling or a Hurricane at one of the
premier Tiki Bars in the nation, Hala Kahiki. This place has been around
forever and is one of the last great tiki bars in the nation... just down
the road from the hotel. http://www.hala-kahiki.com/  although, it does get
pretty crowded.

Anyway,
Thanks, and see some of you there.


Mike

-- 
/dev/mike0

http://www.mikeferrari.com
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From nerkles at gmail.com  Mon Feb 18 19:11:02 2008
From: nerkles at gmail.com (Isaac Csandl)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 12:11:02 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Restaurants - vegetarian, vegan, kosher, halal?
In-Reply-To: <200802172225.04569.pfein@pobox.com>
References: <18360.54854.688855.915167@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
	<b571660a0802171713k4207b12cuf6ba47f99fd0825e@mail.gmail.com>
	<200802172225.04569.pfein@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <67197C47-53D3-4535-BC36-DBC19CD0650E@gmail.com>


On Feb 17, 2008, at 9:25 PM, Pete wrote:

> On Sunday February 17 2008 8:13:00 pm Kumar McMillan wrote:
>> I'm not sure what one should make of this, but the worst food I've
>> ever had was at Amitabul.  It tasted like cardboard and I honestly
>> couldn't believe vegan food could be made this bad (I love vegan food
>> and have had many good meals at Chicago Diner and many spots in NY).
>
> By contrast, I think the food at Amitabul is fantastic and the  
> Chicago Diner
> tastes like cardboard. YMMV.

I've been Amitabul twice. The first time it was awesome. The second  
time it was like cardboard. So yeah, YMMV.





From szybalski at gmail.com  Mon Feb 18 19:26:24 2008
From: szybalski at gmail.com (Lukasz Szybalski)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 12:26:24 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] create all classes
In-Reply-To: <b571660a0802011114y6ca54d72y97157bf1760adfc3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <804e5c70802010826ibaa8a4j28ab5a22eb269916@mail.gmail.com>
	<b571660a0802010832l387b5c85xd6eb9e1c25369f64@mail.gmail.com>
	<b571660a0802010906l1476fffao956bb510ce4c483e@mail.gmail.com>
	<804e5c70802011035y363243c8ra78fb335bbc11c3b@mail.gmail.com>
	<b571660a0802011114y6ca54d72y97157bf1760adfc3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <804e5c70802181026l17da2783yfcefc0047bf6a7e0@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 1, 2008 1:14 PM, Kumar McMillan <kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 1, 2008 12:35 PM, Lukasz Szybalski <szybalski at gmail.com> wrote:
> > What is the difference between:
> >
> > class A:
> >     def __init__(self):
> > ....
> > type <type 'classobj'>
> >
> > class B(object):
> >     def __init__(self):
> > ....
> > type: <type 'type'>
> >
> >

One more question:

class A:
...      def __init__(self):
...              self.myvariable=''
...      def fill(self,data):
...              print self.myvariable

class B(A):
   def __init__(self):
        pass

x=B()
x.fill()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "<stdin>", line 5, in fill
AttributeError: B instance has no attribute 'myvariable'


Is there a reason I cannot access the init variable from class A in
class B? Is the init of class A never run? Why overloading doesn't run
init from A then init from B?

Should  I be designing it differently? I need class A to have
myvariables so then I can overload it in as many classes as I need to.


Ideas?
Lucas

From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com  Mon Feb 18 19:33:42 2008
From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 12:33:42 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] create all classes
In-Reply-To: <804e5c70802181026l17da2783yfcefc0047bf6a7e0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <804e5c70802010826ibaa8a4j28ab5a22eb269916@mail.gmail.com>
	<b571660a0802010832l387b5c85xd6eb9e1c25369f64@mail.gmail.com>
	<b571660a0802010906l1476fffao956bb510ce4c483e@mail.gmail.com>
	<804e5c70802011035y363243c8ra78fb335bbc11c3b@mail.gmail.com>
	<b571660a0802011114y6ca54d72y97157bf1760adfc3@mail.gmail.com>
	<804e5c70802181026l17da2783yfcefc0047bf6a7e0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b571660a0802181033q198c2e4csd511f6d1526ac1e5@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 18, 2008 12:26 PM, Lukasz Szybalski <szybalski at gmail.com> wrote:
> class B? Is the init of class A never run? Why overloading doesn't run
> init from A then init from B?

because it's not automatic, you have to explicitly call the super
method.  Change:

class B(A):
  def __init__(self):
       pass

to:

class B(A):
  def __init__(self):
       A.__init__(self)

or:

class A(object):
    # ... etc ...

class B(A):
    def __init__(self):
        super(B, self).__init__()

the latter is preferable and the difference is that you are using
new-style classes (inheriting from class type object).

From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com  Mon Feb 18 22:50:05 2008
From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:50:05 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] About Chicago & Local Restaurants
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0802121245g2f5b6499r22c34c32b9098d28@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0802121245g2f5b6499r22c34c32b9098d28@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b571660a0802181350p4064de0au66b096aa04d1888e@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 12, 2008 2:45 PM, Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> We have a mission.  For Pycon, there's going to be a "publication,"
> which sounds mysterious, but is actually just going to be a program.
> We've been asked to supply two things, 1) About Chicago and 2) Local
> Restaurants and Tourist Spots.

Chris, how long does it have to be?  Can't we just send them the text
from http://us.pycon.org/2008/chicago/restaurants/ ?  Or at least a
summary of that?  I realize the deadline is today.  And the wiki
doesn't cover "About Chicago"

>
> We've had a gajillion of these discussions before, so pull out your
> lists and respond to this email.  Tom Tobin and Sheila Kay (without
> her knowing, hi Sheila!) have volunteered to pull the emails together
> into a coherent lump, which will then be universally credited to
> ChiPy.
>
> Does this make sense?  Start suggesting.
>
> Chris
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From skip at pobox.com  Tue Feb 19 01:01:16 2008
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 18:01:16 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] About Chicago & Local Restaurants
In-Reply-To: <b571660a0802181350p4064de0au66b096aa04d1888e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0802121245g2f5b6499r22c34c32b9098d28@mail.gmail.com>
	<b571660a0802181350p4064de0au66b096aa04d1888e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <18362.7244.802239.42173@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>


    >> We've been asked to supply two things, 1) About Chicago and 2) Local
    >> Restaurants and Tourist Spots.

    Kumar> Chris, how long does it have to be?  Can't we just send them the
    Kumar> text from http://us.pycon.org/2008/chicago/restaurants/ ?  Or at
    Kumar> least a summary of that?  I realize the deadline is today.  And
    Kumar> the wiki doesn't cover "About Chicago"

I took care of the restaurants stuff with inputs from Kumar and others.  I
restricted the content a bit.  (See attached.)  Atul Varma was going to take
a crack at the about Chicago page.

Skip

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From varmaa at gmail.com  Tue Feb 19 02:41:20 2008
From: varmaa at gmail.com (Atul Varma)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 19:41:20 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] About Chicago & Local Restaurants
In-Reply-To: <18362.7244.802239.42173@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
References: <3096c19d0802121245g2f5b6499r22c34c32b9098d28@mail.gmail.com>
	<b571660a0802181350p4064de0au66b096aa04d1888e@mail.gmail.com>
	<18362.7244.802239.42173@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
Message-ID: <361b27370802181741p57d412a6p9ca935f8d80b6324@mail.gmail.com>

I added content for the About Chicago page.  As I note in the document, I
actually just ended up copying and pasting the excellent content from the
Wikitravel page for the city--it's under a CC Attribution-ShareAlike
license, which I hope is okay for the program guide.

- Atul

On Feb 18, 2008 6:01 PM, <skip at pobox.com> wrote:

>
>    >> We've been asked to supply two things, 1) About Chicago and 2) Local
>    >> Restaurants and Tourist Spots.
>
>    Kumar> Chris, how long does it have to be?  Can't we just send them the
>    Kumar> text from http://us.pycon.org/2008/chicago/restaurants/ ?  Or at
>    Kumar> least a summary of that?  I realize the deadline is today.  And
>    Kumar> the wiki doesn't cover "About Chicago"
>
> I took care of the restaurants stuff with inputs from Kumar and others.  I
> restricted the content a bit.  (See attached.)  Atul Varma was going to
> take
> a crack at the about Chicago page.
>
> Skip
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From korpios at korpios.com  Tue Feb 19 03:00:54 2008
From: korpios at korpios.com (Tom Tobin)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 20:00:54 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] About Chicago & Local Restaurants
In-Reply-To: <361b27370802181741p57d412a6p9ca935f8d80b6324@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0802121245g2f5b6499r22c34c32b9098d28@mail.gmail.com>
	<b571660a0802181350p4064de0au66b096aa04d1888e@mail.gmail.com>
	<18362.7244.802239.42173@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
	<361b27370802181741p57d412a6p9ca935f8d80b6324@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bf0b20a90802181800n413f6e66ld669c093e5de6f93@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/18/08, Atul Varma <varmaa at gmail.com> wrote:
> I added content for the About Chicago page.  As I note in the document, I
> actually just ended up copying and pasting the excellent content from the
> Wikitravel page for the city--it's under a CC Attribution-ShareAlike
> license, which I hope is okay for the program guide.

Might wanna run that by, err, whoever it should be run by; ShareAlike
means we'd have to explicitly license the entire PyCon
pamphlet/whatnot under the same license.

From varmaa at gmail.com  Tue Feb 19 03:03:59 2008
From: varmaa at gmail.com (Atul Varma)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 20:03:59 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] About Chicago & Local Restaurants
In-Reply-To: <bf0b20a90802181800n413f6e66ld669c093e5de6f93@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0802121245g2f5b6499r22c34c32b9098d28@mail.gmail.com>
	<b571660a0802181350p4064de0au66b096aa04d1888e@mail.gmail.com>
	<18362.7244.802239.42173@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
	<361b27370802181741p57d412a6p9ca935f8d80b6324@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf0b20a90802181800n413f6e66ld669c093e5de6f93@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <361b27370802181803g6e6d0846m1331a39ac890b3cb@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 18, 2008 8:00 PM, Tom Tobin <korpios at korpios.com> wrote:

> On 2/18/08, Atul Varma <varmaa at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I added content for the About Chicago page.  As I note in the document,
> I
> > actually just ended up copying and pasting the excellent content from
> the
> > Wikitravel page for the city--it's under a CC Attribution-ShareAlike
> > license, which I hope is okay for the program guide.
>
> Might wanna run that by, err, whoever it should be run by; ShareAlike
> means we'd have to explicitly license the entire PyCon
> pamphlet/whatnot under the same license.
>

Doh, I was hoping it'd just be the one About Chicago page that'd be
duplicated.

Ah, well.  Python's open-source and all, Pycon's content should be too. :)

Alas, I have no idea who it should be run by, though.

- Atul
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From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com  Tue Feb 19 04:05:55 2008
From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 21:05:55 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] First time Pycon questions
In-Reply-To: <2682ac9b0802170914k1584431ke05317aeb70ab007@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2682ac9b0802170914k1584431ke05317aeb70ab007@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b571660a0802181905o46b23a80n564ba62157da28c3@mail.gmail.com>

In addition to what Feihong said...

On Feb 17, 2008 11:14 AM, Scott Nelson <sirgnip at gmail.com> wrote:
> #2 - Where do the informal, hanging out kinda things happen at PyCon?
> Lightning Talks?  Open Space?  lunch?  hallway?

"Happenings" are everywhere and you will find them easily.  There are
bulletin boards for all the BoFs and other random talks that pop up.
Last year it seemed that there was something going on every day until
the wee hours of the night -- Twisted dev reunions, language
shoot-outs, random whiteboard-take-overs to sketch out ideas, etc.  I
didn't get much sleep ;)

> #4 - The site mentions that people are hiring on the expo floor.  Can
> someone give me an idea of the scope of this?  Is it just Google and
> MS?  Or, are there more?

All the sponsors listed on the pycon site are most likely hiring.
Your best bet is to bring many copies of your resume and visit all the
booths for each sponsor.  Talk to people at the booths to find out not
only what job positions they have open but also when developers
associated with their company are speaking at the conference.
Attending those talks will give you some ideas about who you would be
working with  and what their teams are up to.  Also, listen out for
any section of a talk that mentions a company is hiring.  Then talk to
that presenter afterwards.


Kumar

From ramadeus at rcn.com  Tue Feb 19 04:32:55 2008
From: ramadeus at rcn.com (Michael Kramlich)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 21:32:55 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] create all classes
Message-ID: <45FF37C3-57EF-4831-B7BB-9B0AF50875C4@rcn.com>


Lukasz, I second what Kumar said. Either will fix your problem.
But there's one more optimization you can do, in the special case  
where you don't need any B-specific behavior at instance creation time.
In that case, you don't even need to write an __init__ method for B.  
If B doesn't have one defined Python will call the A one,  
automatically. No need to call it explicitly from inside a B  
constructor.
You'll have less typing and a smaller file. Saves trees. And whales.

Mike
ZodLogic Games

From goodmansond at gmail.com  Tue Feb 19 04:50:59 2008
From: goodmansond at gmail.com (DeanG)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 21:50:59 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] First time Pycon questions
In-Reply-To: <2682ac9b0802170914k1584431ke05317aeb70ab007@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2682ac9b0802170914k1584431ke05317aeb70ab007@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f5c6a5400802181950i539feca6pa81467c72e0890b1@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 17, 2008 11:14 AM, Scott Nelson <sirgnip at gmail.com> wrote:
> #2 - Where do the informal, hanging out kinda things happen at PyCon?
> Lightning Talks?  Open Space?  lunch?  hallway?

Alongside the Open Spaces will be a Board Games social event Friday
and Saturday nights.

http://wiki.python.org/moin/PyCon2008/BoardGameEvent

- Dean

From korpios at korpios.com  Tue Feb 19 06:11:48 2008
From: korpios at korpios.com (Tom Tobin)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 23:11:48 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] First time Pycon questions
In-Reply-To: <f5c6a5400802181950i539feca6pa81467c72e0890b1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2682ac9b0802170914k1584431ke05317aeb70ab007@mail.gmail.com>
	<f5c6a5400802181950i539feca6pa81467c72e0890b1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bf0b20a90802182111l503230f5q46c7fd4c74bebe87@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/18/08, DeanG <goodmansond at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 17, 2008 11:14 AM, Scott Nelson <sirgnip at gmail.com> wrote:
> > #2 - Where do the informal, hanging out kinda things happen at PyCon?
> > Lightning Talks?  Open Space?  lunch?  hallway?
>
> Alongside the Open Spaces will be a Board Games social event Friday
> and Saturday nights.
>
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/PyCon2008/BoardGameEvent

Oooooooh.  I just added several games that I own; I'm *very*
interested in this.  ^_^  If there's sufficient interest, I'll bring
'em all (meaning I'll have to drive, but oh well, it's for the Greater
Good!).

From shekay at pobox.com  Tue Feb 19 17:15:51 2008
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 10:15:51 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] First time Pycon questions
In-Reply-To: <bf0b20a90802182111l503230f5q46c7fd4c74bebe87@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2682ac9b0802170914k1584431ke05317aeb70ab007@mail.gmail.com>
	<f5c6a5400802181950i539feca6pa81467c72e0890b1@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf0b20a90802182111l503230f5q46c7fd4c74bebe87@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a68ced640802190815q73d20ec1sb665d67e3355b44a@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 18, 2008 11:11 PM, Tom Tobin <korpios at korpios.com> wrote:
> On 2/18/08, DeanG <goodmansond at gmail.com> wrote:

> > Alongside the Open Spaces will be a Board Games social event Friday
> > and Saturday nights.
> >
> > http://wiki.python.org/moin/PyCon2008/BoardGameEvent
>
> Oooooooh.  I just added several games that I own; I'm *very*
> interested in this.  ^_^  If there's sufficient interest, I'll bring
> 'em all (meaning I'll have to drive, but oh well, it's for the Greater
> Good!).

Can you arrange to drop them with someone beforehand? I volunteer Carl.

-- 
sheila

From ramadeus at rcn.com  Tue Feb 19 22:00:39 2008
From: ramadeus at rcn.com (Michael Kramlich)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 15:00:39 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] board gaming at PyCon
Message-ID: <93ECB841-276B-4323-A3A4-33296608C61B@rcn.com>

I'd love to come play but only if I could be a sneaky non-paying con  
crasher. :)
Convention attendance fees are not in my budget right now...

Mike Kramlich
ZodLogic Games ( <- Chicago-based and Python-centric!)

From shekay at pobox.com  Tue Feb 19 23:57:28 2008
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 16:57:28 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] board gaming at PyCon
In-Reply-To: <93ECB841-276B-4323-A3A4-33296608C61B@rcn.com>
References: <93ECB841-276B-4323-A3A4-33296608C61B@rcn.com>
Message-ID: <a68ced640802191457r6f15173ra08224bc060b48d@mail.gmail.com>

1. Why didn't you apply for financial aid when it was being offered?

2. At least for sf cons around here, there is a tradition of shadowing
the parties at night.

On Feb 19, 2008 3:00 PM, Michael Kramlich <ramadeus at rcn.com> wrote:
> I'd love to come play but only if I could be a sneaky non-paying con
> crasher. :)
> Convention attendance fees are not in my budget right now...
>
> Mike Kramlich
> ZodLogic Games ( <- Chicago-based and Python-centric!)
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
sheila

From goodmansond at gmail.com  Wed Feb 20 00:15:07 2008
From: goodmansond at gmail.com (DeanG)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:15:07 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] board gaming at PyCon
In-Reply-To: <93ECB841-276B-4323-A3A4-33296608C61B@rcn.com>
References: <93ECB841-276B-4323-A3A4-33296608C61B@rcn.com>
Message-ID: <f5c6a5400802191515k671d01cgac607fb299263555@mail.gmail.com>

There are also likely going to be day passes available at the registration desk.

On Feb 19, 2008 3:00 PM, Michael Kramlich <ramadeus at rcn.com> wrote:
> I'd love to come play but only if I could be a sneaky non-paying con
> crasher. :)
> Convention attendance fees are not in my budget right now...
>
> Mike Kramlich
> ZodLogic Games ( <- Chicago-based and Python-centric!)
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From carl at personnelware.com  Wed Feb 20 01:23:54 2008
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 18:23:54 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] board gaming at PyCon
In-Reply-To: <93ECB841-276B-4323-A3A4-33296608C61B@rcn.com>
References: <93ECB841-276B-4323-A3A4-33296608C61B@rcn.com>
Message-ID: <47BB731A.4090103@personnelware.com>

Michael Kramlich wrote:
> I'd love to come play but only if I could be a sneaky non-paying con  
> crasher. :)
> Convention attendance fees are not in my budget right now...
> 
> Mike Kramlich
> ZodLogic Games ( <- Chicago-based and Python-centric!)

In hopes to improve the process, I have to grill you:

Why didn't you apply for financial aid?

Carl K

From warren.lindsey at gmail.com  Wed Feb 20 01:56:39 2008
From: warren.lindsey at gmail.com (warren.lindsey at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 18:56:39 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] board gaming at PyCon
In-Reply-To: <47BB731A.4090103@personnelware.com>
References: <93ECB841-276B-4323-A3A4-33296608C61B@rcn.com>
	<47BB731A.4090103@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <841e880a0802191656n30ab3f78ld250512938a13476@mail.gmail.com>

While not explicitly stated in his email, please also consider that
the cost of attendance is both the entrance fee and missing a day of
work...

On 2/19/08, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:
> Michael Kramlich wrote:
> > I'd love to come play but only if I could be a sneaky non-paying con
> > crasher. :)
> > Convention attendance fees are not in my budget right now...
> >
> > Mike Kramlich
> > ZodLogic Games ( <- Chicago-based and Python-centric!)
>
> In hopes to improve the process, I have to grill you:
>
> Why didn't you apply for financial aid?
>
> Carl K
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From carl at personnelware.com  Wed Feb 20 16:35:41 2008
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:35:41 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] PyCon practice day
Message-ID: <47BC48CD.9@personnelware.com>

There will be another meeting at the hotel to give PyCon talks.  Just like the 
ChiPy meeting, everyone is invited.

So, who wants to give their presentation, and when?

Thursday seems like a good choice.  We can start earlier (6?), especially if we 
get more than 2 speakers.  If we get 10, we can start at 8am and go all day. 
Not sure how many people will show up, but camera will be rolling, so come on down!

Carl K



From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com  Wed Feb 20 17:23:22 2008
From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 10:23:22 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] PyCon practice day
In-Reply-To: <47BC48CD.9@personnelware.com>
References: <47BC48CD.9@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <b571660a0802200823x6e3297fby1a0254b4fafc696@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 20, 2008 9:35 AM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:
> So, who wants to give their presentation, and when?
>
> Thursday seems like a good choice.  We can start earlier (6?), especially if we
> get more than 2 speakers.  If we get 10, we can start at 8am and go all day.
> Not sure how many people will show up, but camera will be rolling, so come on down!

I'm in.

Unicode in Python, Completely Demystified

This talks aims to make every single last person in the audience
understand exactly how to write Unicode-aware applications in Python.
If necessary, we will move to a Birds of Feather gathering, to the
bar, to your hotel room, I'll start hanging around your cube at work
-- whatever it takes -- until you completely "get it." But it's really
simple so bring an open mind, a notepad, and get ready to create
bullet proof Python software that can read and write text in Arabic,
Russian, Chinese, Klingon, et cetera. As a citizen of the Python
community you have the responsibility of creating Unicode-aware
applications!

_

It is for beginner and advanced programmers, especially those who use
brute force or panic-driven unicode problem solving :)  In other
words, if you have "fixed" unicode errors but weren't sure exactly
how, this talk is definitely for you.

Also, due to the 4-track conference this year, by attending the
practice talk you would gain the option to see one of following
exciting talks at the real PyCon which conflict with mine:

- 037 I Developing reusable Django applications (James Bennett)
- 089 I (45min) Don't call us, we'll call you: callback patterns and
idioms in Python (Alex Martelli)
- 005 B (45min) Getting started with test-driven development. (Mr.
Jonathan Hartley)
_

Carl, unless we get crowded with talks, can we do a 7pm start?  I have
to travel from Evanston after work but I am flexible if that is too
late.  Any Thursday should work for me.  Next Thursday would be
optimal but I can do tomorrow I suppose.


Kumar

From carl at personnelware.com  Wed Feb 20 18:30:52 2008
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:30:52 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] PyCon practice day (next week)
In-Reply-To: <b571660a0802200823x6e3297fby1a0254b4fafc696@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47BC48CD.9@personnelware.com>
	<b571660a0802200823x6e3297fby1a0254b4fafc696@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47BC63CC.8010408@personnelware.com>

Kumar McMillan wrote:
> On Feb 20, 2008 9:35 AM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:
>> So, who wants to give their presentation, and when?
>>
>> Thursday seems like a good choice.  We can start earlier (6?), especially if we
>> get more than 2 speakers.  If we get 10, we can start at 8am and go all day.
>> Not sure how many people will show up, but camera will be rolling, so come on down!
> 
> I'm in.
> 
> Unicode in Python, Completely Demystified

> 
> Carl, unless we get crowded with talks, can we do a 7pm start?  I have
> to travel from Evanston after work but I am flexible if that is too
> late.  Any Thursday should work for me.  Next Thursday would be
> optimal but I can do tomorrow I suppose.

I was thinking next Thurs, Feb 28.  sometimes I forget to type what I think...

7 - 7:30.  we can let Q/A go on forever, but it's good to practice getting your 
talk done on time.

Carl K

From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 20 20:32:45 2008
From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:32:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Chicago] PyCon practice day (next week)
In-Reply-To: <47BC63CC.8010408@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <615422.85730.qm@web34813.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

So, it's next Thursday (Feb 28), from 7 am to 7:30 pm, at the Crowne
Plaza in Rosemont?

I should be able to make it. Haven't decided if I want to do my .NET
talk or part of our tutorial...


--- Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:

> Kumar McMillan wrote:
> > On Feb 20, 2008 9:35 AM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com>
> wrote:
> >> So, who wants to give their presentation, and when?
> >>
> >> Thursday seems like a good choice.  We can start earlier (6?),
> especially if we
> >> get more than 2 speakers.  If we get 10, we can start at 8am and
> go all day.
> >> Not sure how many people will show up, but camera will be
> rolling, so come on down!
> > 
> > I'm in.
> > 
> > Unicode in Python, Completely Demystified
> 
> > 
> > Carl, unless we get crowded with talks, can we do a 7pm start?  I
> have
> > to travel from Evanston after work but I am flexible if that is
> too
> > late.  Any Thursday should work for me.  Next Thursday would be
> > optimal but I can do tomorrow I suppose.
> 
> I was thinking next Thurs, Feb 28.  sometimes I forget to type what
> I think...
> 
> 7 - 7:30.  we can let Q/A go on forever, but it's good to practice
> getting your 
> talk done on time.
> 
> Carl K
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com  Wed Feb 20 20:36:37 2008
From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:36:37 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] PyCon practice day (next week)
In-Reply-To: <615422.85730.qm@web34813.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <47BC63CC.8010408@personnelware.com>
	<615422.85730.qm@web34813.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b571660a0802201136m116360dag3c62f49846e2041@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 20, 2008 1:32 PM, Feihong Hsu <hsu.feihong at yahoo.com> wrote:
> So, it's next Thursday (Feb 28), from 7 am to 7:30 pm, at the Crowne
> Plaza in Rosemont?

7 pm to 7:30 pm ? :)  I'm assuming we can extend it to fit the number
of talks.  Mine will be 30 min long.

From cwebber at imagescape.com  Wed Feb 20 22:00:45 2008
From: cwebber at imagescape.com (Christopher Allan Webber)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 15:00:45 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Restaurants - vegetarian, vegan, kosher, halal?
In-Reply-To: <67197C47-53D3-4535-BC36-DBC19CD0650E@gmail.com> (Isaac Csandl's
	message of "Mon, 18 Feb 2008 12:11:02 -0600")
References: <18360.54854.688855.915167@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
	<b571660a0802171713k4207b12cuf6ba47f99fd0825e@mail.gmail.com>
	<200802172225.04569.pfein@pobox.com>
	<67197C47-53D3-4535-BC36-DBC19CD0650E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6yhcg34a2q.fsf@imagescape.com>

Wow.  Some strong opinions about Amitabul, here.

I've only been there once, but the one time I went I walked away
feeling like it was the best meal I ever had in my life.  I had
something that was "something or other's special delights".  It had
sweet potatoes and chestnut potatoes.  That's all I can remember, but
it was amazing.

Isaac Csandl <nerkles at gmail.com> writes:

> On Feb 17, 2008, at 9:25 PM, Pete wrote:
>
>> On Sunday February 17 2008 8:13:00 pm Kumar McMillan wrote:
>>> I'm not sure what one should make of this, but the worst food I've
>>> ever had was at Amitabul.  It tasted like cardboard and I honestly
>>> couldn't believe vegan food could be made this bad (I love vegan food
>>> and have had many good meals at Chicago Diner and many spots in NY).
>>
>> By contrast, I think the food at Amitabul is fantastic and the  
>> Chicago Diner
>> tastes like cardboard. YMMV.
>
> I've been Amitabul twice. The first time it was awesome. The second  
> time it was like cardboard. So yeah, YMMV.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From carl at personnelware.com  Wed Feb 20 22:44:12 2008
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 15:44:12 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] PyCon practice day (next week)
In-Reply-To: <615422.85730.qm@web34813.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <615422.85730.qm@web34813.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <47BC9F2C.7020403@personnelware.com>

Hotel asked me when, I told them Feb 28, waiting to hear a confirmation.

The rooms aren't used much in the evening, so I don't see why it won't happen.

I'll post to the list as soon as I get a confirmation.

Carl K

Feihong Hsu wrote:
> So, it's next Thursday (Feb 28), from 7 am to 7:30 pm, at the Crowne
> Plaza in Rosemont?
> 
> I should be able to make it. Haven't decided if I want to do my .NET
> talk or part of our tutorial...
> 
> 
> --- Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:
> 
>> Kumar McMillan wrote:
>>> On Feb 20, 2008 9:35 AM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com>
>> wrote:
>>>> So, who wants to give their presentation, and when?
>>>>
>>>> Thursday seems like a good choice.  We can start earlier (6?),
>> especially if we
>>>> get more than 2 speakers.  If we get 10, we can start at 8am and
>> go all day.
>>>> Not sure how many people will show up, but camera will be
>> rolling, so come on down!
>>> I'm in.
>>>
>>> Unicode in Python, Completely Demystified
>>> Carl, unless we get crowded with talks, can we do a 7pm start?  I
>> have
>>> to travel from Evanston after work but I am flexible if that is
>> too
>>> late.  Any Thursday should work for me.  Next Thursday would be
>>> optimal but I can do tomorrow I suppose.
>> I was thinking next Thurs, Feb 28.  sometimes I forget to type what
>> I think...
>>
>> 7 - 7:30.  we can let Q/A go on forever, but it's good to practice
>> getting your 
>> talk done on time.
>>
>> Carl K
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
> 
> 
> 
>       ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 
> 

From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 20 23:05:40 2008
From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:05:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Chicago] Restaurants - vegetarian, vegan, kosher, halal?
In-Reply-To: <6yhcg34a2q.fsf@imagescape.com>
Message-ID: <918725.18270.qm@web34807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Geez, apparently Amitabul is the most controversial restaurant in
Chicago. Now I just HAVE to go check it out sometime. Although my
experience with Korean food has mostly been with barbeque, so I'm a
little biased against vegan places.

--- Christopher Allan Webber <cwebber at imagescape.com> wrote:

> Wow.  Some strong opinions about Amitabul, here.
> 
> I've only been there once, but the one time I went I walked away
> feeling like it was the best meal I ever had in my life.  I had
> something that was "something or other's special delights".  It had
> sweet potatoes and chestnut potatoes.  That's all I can remember,
> but
> it was amazing.
> 
> Isaac Csandl <nerkles at gmail.com> writes:
> 
> > On Feb 17, 2008, at 9:25 PM, Pete wrote:
> >
> >> On Sunday February 17 2008 8:13:00 pm Kumar McMillan wrote:
> >>> I'm not sure what one should make of this, but the worst food
> I've
> >>> ever had was at Amitabul.  It tasted like cardboard and I
> honestly
> >>> couldn't believe vegan food could be made this bad (I love
> vegan food
> >>> and have had many good meals at Chicago Diner and many spots in
> NY).
> >>
> >> By contrast, I think the food at Amitabul is fantastic and the  
> >> Chicago Diner
> >> tastes like cardboard. YMMV.
> >
> > I've been Amitabul twice. The first time it was awesome. The
> second  
> > time it was like cardboard. So yeah, YMMV.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

From pfein at pobox.com  Thu Feb 21 03:47:30 2008
From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 21:47:30 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] March Chipy Meeting
Message-ID: <200802202147.30509.pfein@pobox.com>

Hi all-

In an effort to to take some pressure off the in-town folks, I hereby declare 
myself de-facto coordinator of the March Chipy meeting.  Huzzah!

Chipy's March Meeting, our best (and maybe biggest) ever!  We'll be having it 
the night before Pycon, at the Pycon space, so hopefully we'll attract early 
Pycon arrivers and show them how we kick it Chicago style.

Date: Thursday, 3/13. 7 pm.  A bit later than usual to give folks more time 
get out to O'hare.

Location: Crowne Plaza Chicago O'Hare hotel 5440 N River Rd Rosemont, IL 60018

Directions: http://us.pycon.org/2008/chicago/hotel/  The hotel is 3 blocks 
from the Rosemont blue line stop.

Speakers:
Peter Fein - GrassyKnoll: A web service for collections 
http://grassyknoll.googlecode.com

Post-Meeting:
Pycon needs help!  Schwag bags need stuffing and t-shirts need folding.  Make 
your mamma proud by showing off those folding skillz. Beer and pizza may be 
provided.  This is a great, low commitment opportunity to help make Chicago's 
first Pycon a success.

Logistics:
My talk is likely to be longish, but perhaps we'd have some time for a few 
short talks as well.  IIRC, someone else expressed interest on the mailing 
list, but I can't find the message... Please email me if you're interested in 
presenting.

As usual, details are subject to change, as we figure out what hotel space is 
available.

w00t!

--Pete

-- 
Peter Fein   ||   773-575-0694   ||   pfein at pobox.com
http://www.pobox.com/~pfein/   ||   PGP: 0xCCF6AE6B
irc: pfein at freenode.net   ||   jabber: peter.fein at gmail.com

From skip at pobox.com  Thu Feb 21 05:57:52 2008
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:57:52 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] March Chipy Meeting
In-Reply-To: <200802202147.30509.pfein@pobox.com>
References: <200802202147.30509.pfein@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <18365.1232.36535.979322@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>


    Pete> Chipy's March Meeting, our best (and maybe biggest) ever!  We'll
    Pete> be having it the night before Pycon, at the Pycon space, so
    Pete> hopefully we'll attract early Pycon arrivers and show them how we
    Pete> kick it Chicago style.

Perhaps it should be mentioned in some prominent Pythonic blogs that
non-ChiPy folks are more likely to see?  Brett Cannon, David Goodger, etc?

Skip

From robkapteyn at gmail.com  Thu Feb 21 06:17:10 2008
From: robkapteyn at gmail.com (Rob Kapteyn)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 23:17:10 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] March Chipy Meeting
In-Reply-To: <200802202147.30509.pfein@pobox.com>
References: <200802202147.30509.pfein@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <1D6462C6-3F33-4660-BCB8-61D1C5F8FBFB@gmail.com>

I think it might make sense if the ChiPy group got together ***for  
presentations*** on another day.

Thursday, March 13, is the PyCon tutorial day and the Evening Session  
runs from 6:10 PM to 9:30 PM.
I don't think we should do our own presentations in conflict with the  
PyCon schedule.

I think that ChiPy activities on Thursday evening should be dedicated  
to convention organizing -- goody bags, etc.

I propose that we do a regular ChiPy meeting with presentations on the  
Thursday AFTER PyCon -- March 20th.
That would have given us just enough time to recover, but not enough  
time to have lost the convention buzz ;-)

On second thought -- maybe we want to meet on Wednesday, the day  
before PyCon.
We might still attract some of the early out-of-towners and get our  
goody bags done early.

***************************************************************************
*** If we do this change, we should decide soon so we can update the  
wiki. ***
***************************************************************************

Please express your opinions with a reply to this email:
  1.  [   ]  Leave March ChiPy meeting date unchanged.
  2.  [   ]  Move ChiPy meeting to the Thursday AFTER PyCon, March 20th.
  3.  [   ]  Move ChiPy meeting to the Wednesday BEFORE PyCon, March  
12th.

My vote is 2 -- move to the 20th, but I'm OK with 3 also.

-Rob


On Feb 20, 2008, at 8:47 PM, Pete wrote:

> Hi all-
>
> In an effort to to take some pressure off the in-town folks, I  
> hereby declare
> myself de-facto coordinator of the March Chipy meeting.  Huzzah!
>
> Chipy's March Meeting, our best (and maybe biggest) ever!  We'll be  
> having it
> the night before Pycon, at the Pycon space, so hopefully we'll  
> attract early
> Pycon arrivers and show them how we kick it Chicago style.
>
> Date: Thursday, 3/13. 7 pm.  A bit later than usual to give folks  
> more time
> get out to O'hare.
>
> Location: Crowne Plaza Chicago O'Hare hotel 5440 N River Rd  
> Rosemont, IL 60018
>
> Directions: http://us.pycon.org/2008/chicago/hotel/  The hotel is 3  
> blocks
> from the Rosemont blue line stop.
>
> Speakers:
> Peter Fein - GrassyKnoll: A web service for collections
> http://grassyknoll.googlecode.com
>
> Post-Meeting:
> Pycon needs help!  Schwag bags need stuffing and t-shirts need  
> folding.  Make
> your mamma proud by showing off those folding skillz. Beer and pizza  
> may be
> provided.  This is a great, low commitment opportunity to help make  
> Chicago's
> first Pycon a success.
>
> Logistics:
> My talk is likely to be longish, but perhaps we'd have some time for  
> a few
> short talks as well.  IIRC, someone else expressed interest on the  
> mailing
> list, but I can't find the message... Please email me if you're  
> interested in
> presenting.
>
> As usual, details are subject to change, as we figure out what hotel  
> space is
> available.
>
> w00t!
>
> --Pete
>
> -- 
> Peter Fein   ||   773-575-0694   ||   pfein at pobox.com
> http://www.pobox.com/~pfein/   ||   PGP: 0xCCF6AE6B
> irc: pfein at freenode.net   ||   jabber: peter.fein at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

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From pfein at pobox.com  Thu Feb 21 13:36:04 2008
From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 07:36:04 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] March Chipy Meeting
In-Reply-To: <1D6462C6-3F33-4660-BCB8-61D1C5F8FBFB@gmail.com>
References: <200802202147.30509.pfein@pobox.com>
	<1D6462C6-3F33-4660-BCB8-61D1C5F8FBFB@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200802210736.04296.pfein@pobox.com>

On Thursday February 21 2008 12:17:10 am Rob Kapteyn wrote:
> I think it might make sense if the ChiPy group got together ***for
> presentations*** on another day.
>
> Thursday, March 13, is the PyCon tutorial day and the Evening Session
> runs from 6:10 PM to 9:30 PM.
> I don't think we should do our own presentations in conflict with the
> PyCon schedule.

Conflicts are par for the Pycon course.  Heck, there are 4 simultaneous tracks 
of talks in the conference proper. Having the meeting concurrent with Pycon 
to be a way of adding some more local, organizing UG flavor to the event, 
which is why we were so keen on hosting to begin with (no offense Dallas).  
Also, Thursday night would give early-arrivers something to do, besides 
sitting around the hotel room watching WGN.  Finally, for those Chicagoans 
not attending Pycon (shame!) it's a chance to mingle with out-of-towners and 
get a taste of what they're missing.

> I think that ChiPy activities on Thursday evening should be dedicated
> to convention organizing -- goody bags, etc.

I think we're more likely to *get* people to the venue in the first place if 
we have a meeting, than if we simply say "please come help". Just trying to 
be realistic.

> I propose that we do a regular ChiPy meeting with presentations on the
> Thursday AFTER PyCon -- March 20th.
> That would have given us just enough time to recover, but not enough
> time to have lost the convention buzz ;-)

It'd also run up into the sprints.  Dunno if you've ever stayed for the 
sprints, but by the time I left last year, I was exahusted - "recovered" is 
about the last word I'd used for it.  Sprints aside, folks are more likely to 
be python'd-out by the next week - I'd worry that it wouldn't happen at all.  
Also, I won't be in town then. ;-)

> On second thought -- maybe we want to meet on Wednesday, the day
> before PyCon.
> We might still attract some of the early out-of-towners and get our
> goody bags done early.

Because, y'know, all our locals won't have enough last-minute work to do. ;-)  
There are going to be a lot more people in town the night before the 
conference (Thurs.) than two days before - companies tend to view this as a 
business trip.

Finally, fwiw, the Pycon organizers I've already spoken to were cool with 
having the meeting as scheduled.

--Pete

-- 
Peter Fein   ||   773-575-0694   ||   pfein at pobox.com
http://www.pobox.com/~pfein/   ||   PGP: 0xCCF6AE6B
irc: pfein at freenode.net   ||   jabber: peter.fein at gmail.com

From robkapteyn at gmail.com  Thu Feb 21 16:02:30 2008
From: robkapteyn at gmail.com (Rob Kapteyn)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:02:30 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] March Chipy Meeting
In-Reply-To: <200802210736.04296.pfein@pobox.com>
References: <200802202147.30509.pfein@pobox.com>
	<1D6462C6-3F33-4660-BCB8-61D1C5F8FBFB@gmail.com>
	<200802210736.04296.pfein@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <E2CCD805-5953-4506-99BA-21BDD7B87FB9@gmail.com>

Peter:
You are right.
I'll withdraw my proposal.

There are lots of people who will be there but won't do the tutorials,  
because they are too expensive.
I skipped them last year (and later regretted it).

I had just registered, and I noticed that more of the best tutorials  
are the evening ones.
(I'll be late to the ChiPy meeting ;-)

Apologies to the list,
Rob


On Feb 21, 2008, at 6:36 AM, Pete wrote:

> On Thursday February 21 2008 12:17:10 am Rob Kapteyn wrote:
>> I think it might make sense if the ChiPy group got together ***for
>> presentations*** on another day.
>>
>> Thursday, March 13, is the PyCon tutorial day and the Evening Session
>> runs from 6:10 PM to 9:30 PM.
>> I don't think we should do our own presentations in conflict with the
>> PyCon schedule.
>
> Conflicts are par for the Pycon course.  Heck, there are 4  
> simultaneous tracks
> of talks in the conference proper. Having the meeting concurrent  
> with Pycon
> to be a way of adding some more local, organizing UG flavor to the  
> event,
> which is why we were so keen on hosting to begin with (no offense  
> Dallas).
> Also, Thursday night would give early-arrivers something to do,  
> besides
> sitting around the hotel room watching WGN.  Finally, for those  
> Chicagoans
> not attending Pycon (shame!) it's a chance to mingle with out-of- 
> towners and
> get a taste of what they're missing.
>
>> I think that ChiPy activities on Thursday evening should be dedicated
>> to convention organizing -- goody bags, etc.
>
> I think we're more likely to *get* people to the venue in the first  
> place if
> we have a meeting, than if we simply say "please come help". Just  
> trying to
> be realistic.
>
>> I propose that we do a regular ChiPy meeting with presentations on  
>> the
>> Thursday AFTER PyCon -- March 20th.
>> That would have given us just enough time to recover, but not enough
>> time to have lost the convention buzz ;-)
>
> It'd also run up into the sprints.  Dunno if you've ever stayed for  
> the
> sprints, but by the time I left last year, I was exahusted -  
> "recovered" is
> about the last word I'd used for it.  Sprints aside, folks are more  
> likely to
> be python'd-out by the next week - I'd worry that it wouldn't happen  
> at all.
> Also, I won't be in town then. ;-)
>
>> On second thought -- maybe we want to meet on Wednesday, the day
>> before PyCon.
>> We might still attract some of the early out-of-towners and get our
>> goody bags done early.
>
> Because, y'know, all our locals won't have enough last-minute work  
> to do. ;-)
> There are going to be a lot more people in town the night before the
> conference (Thurs.) than two days before - companies tend to view  
> this as a
> business trip.
>
> Finally, fwiw, the Pycon organizers I've already spoken to were cool  
> with
> having the meeting as scheduled.
>
> --Pete
>
> -- 
> Peter Fein   ||   773-575-0694   ||   pfein at pobox.com
> http://www.pobox.com/~pfein/   ||   PGP: 0xCCF6AE6B
> irc: pfein at freenode.net   ||   jabber: peter.fein at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From goodmansond at gmail.com  Thu Feb 21 16:38:21 2008
From: goodmansond at gmail.com (DeanG)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:38:21 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] March Chipy Meeting
In-Reply-To: <200802202147.30509.pfein@pobox.com>
References: <200802202147.30509.pfein@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <f5c6a5400802210738n478b80c7gd812b62bab88eb4f@mail.gmail.com>

Is there any interest in devoting part of this meeting to a Q&A and/or
Retrospective of a successful Python User Group?

- Dean


On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 8:47 PM, Pete <pfein at pobox.com> wrote:
> Hi all-
>
>  In an effort to to take some pressure off the in-town folks, I hereby declare
>  myself de-facto coordinator of the March Chipy meeting.  Huzzah!
>
>  Chipy's March Meeting, our best (and maybe biggest) ever!  We'll be having it
>  the night before Pycon, at the Pycon space, so hopefully we'll attract early
>  Pycon arrivers and show them how we kick it Chicago style.
>
>  Date: Thursday, 3/13. 7 pm.  A bit later than usual to give folks more time
>  get out to O'hare.
>
>  Location: Crowne Plaza Chicago O'Hare hotel 5440 N River Rd Rosemont, IL 60018
>
>  Directions: http://us.pycon.org/2008/chicago/hotel/  The hotel is 3 blocks
>  from the Rosemont blue line stop.
>
>  Speakers:
>  Peter Fein - GrassyKnoll: A web service for collections
>  http://grassyknoll.googlecode.com
>
>  Post-Meeting:
>  Pycon needs help!  Schwag bags need stuffing and t-shirts need folding.  Make
>  your mamma proud by showing off those folding skillz. Beer and pizza may be
>  provided.  This is a great, low commitment opportunity to help make Chicago's
>  first Pycon a success.
>
>  Logistics:
>  My talk is likely to be longish, but perhaps we'd have some time for a few
>  short talks as well.  IIRC, someone else expressed interest on the mailing
>  list, but I can't find the message... Please email me if you're interested in
>  presenting.
>
>  As usual, details are subject to change, as we figure out what hotel space is
>  available.
>
>  w00t!
>
>  --Pete
>
>  --
>  Peter Fein   ||   773-575-0694   ||   pfein at pobox.com
>  http://www.pobox.com/~pfein/   ||   PGP: 0xCCF6AE6B
>  irc: pfein at freenode.net   ||   jabber: peter.fein at gmail.com
>  _______________________________________________
>  Chicago mailing list
>  Chicago at python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From pfein at pobox.com  Thu Feb 21 17:07:58 2008
From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:07:58 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] March Chipy Meeting
In-Reply-To: <f5c6a5400802210738n478b80c7gd812b62bab88eb4f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200802202147.30509.pfein@pobox.com>
	<f5c6a5400802210738n478b80c7gd812b62bab88eb4f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200802211107.59076.pfein@pobox.com>

On Thursday February 21 2008 10:38:21 am DeanG wrote:
> Is there any interest in devoting part of this meeting to a Q&A and/or
> Retrospective of a successful Python User Group?

Hmm... not sure I understand what you have in mind. Similar to Jeff 
Rush's "Running a Successful Usergroup" talk on Friday morning?

Basically, I'd been thinking we'd pretty much just have a meeting, perhaps 
minus "My Favorite Python Module" if there are zillions of people and plus 
much praising of the local organizers (and some bag stuffing).

-- 
Peter Fein   ||   773-575-0694   ||   pfein at pobox.com
http://www.pobox.com/~pfein/   ||   PGP: 0xCCF6AE6B
irc: pfein at freenode.net   ||   jabber: peter.fein at gmail.com

From goodmansond at gmail.com  Thu Feb 21 17:32:09 2008
From: goodmansond at gmail.com (DeanG)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:32:09 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] March Chipy Meeting
In-Reply-To: <200802211107.59076.pfein@pobox.com>
References: <200802202147.30509.pfein@pobox.com>
	<f5c6a5400802210738n478b80c7gd812b62bab88eb4f@mail.gmail.com>
	<200802211107.59076.pfein@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <f5c6a5400802210832x5537834di16e8a8f7ab69e75a@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry I overlooked the Friday morning talk.  That seems to cover it.

On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 10:07 AM, Pete <pfein at pobox.com> wrote:
> On Thursday February 21 2008 10:38:21 am DeanG wrote:
>  > Is there any interest in devoting part of this meeting to a Q&A and/or
>  > Retrospective of a successful Python User Group?
>
>  Hmm... not sure I understand what you have in mind. Similar to Jeff
>  Rush's "Running a Successful Usergroup" talk on Friday morning?
>
>  Basically, I'd been thinking we'd pretty much just have a meeting, perhaps
>  minus "My Favorite Python Module" if there are zillions of people and plus
>  much praising of the local organizers (and some bag stuffing).
>
>  --
>
>
> Peter Fein   ||   773-575-0694   ||   pfein at pobox.com
>  http://www.pobox.com/~pfein/   ||   PGP: 0xCCF6AE6B
>  irc: pfein at freenode.net   ||   jabber: peter.fein at gmail.com
>  _______________________________________________
>  Chicago mailing list
>  Chicago at python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From cwebber at imagescape.com  Thu Feb 21 18:21:38 2008
From: cwebber at imagescape.com (Christopher Allan Webber)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:21:38 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] March Chipy Meeting
In-Reply-To: <200802211107.59076.pfein@pobox.com> (Pete's message of "Thu,
	21 Feb 2008 11:07:58 -0500")
References: <200802202147.30509.pfein@pobox.com>
	<f5c6a5400802210738n478b80c7gd812b62bab88eb4f@mail.gmail.com>
	<200802211107.59076.pfein@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <6yhcg22pjx.fsf@imagescape.com>

Pete <pfein at pobox.com> writes:

> On Thursday February 21 2008 10:38:21 am DeanG wrote:
>> Is there any interest in devoting part of this meeting to a Q&A and/or
>> Retrospective of a successful Python User Group?

I'm not personally opposed to having a "successful PUG" portion, but I
am of the opinion that the best way to show off a successful PUG is in
many ways to show off some good talks. ;)

From ianb at colorstudy.com  Thu Feb 21 18:29:50 2008
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:29:50 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] March Chipy Meeting
In-Reply-To: <f5c6a5400802210738n478b80c7gd812b62bab88eb4f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200802202147.30509.pfein@pobox.com>
	<f5c6a5400802210738n478b80c7gd812b62bab88eb4f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47BDB50E.7000206@colorstudy.com>

DeanG wrote:
> Is there any interest in devoting part of this meeting to a Q&A and/or
> Retrospective of a successful Python User Group?

I also don't know if ChiPy can shine a whole lot of light on the matter 
-- the group seems to do fairly well despite our organizational 
abilities, not because of it.

   Ian

From tcp at mac.com  Thu Feb 21 18:32:34 2008
From: tcp at mac.com (Ted Pollari)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:32:34 -0800
Subject: [Chicago] March Chipy Meeting
In-Reply-To: <47BDB50E.7000206@colorstudy.com>
References: <200802202147.30509.pfein@pobox.com>
	<f5c6a5400802210738n478b80c7gd812b62bab88eb4f@mail.gmail.com>
	<47BDB50E.7000206@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <177A8320-0AE9-4C56-A215-DC0C598170E8@mac.com>


On Feb 21, 2008, at 9:29 AM, Ian Bicking wrote:

> DeanG wrote:
>> Is there any interest in devoting part of this meeting to a Q&A and/ 
>> or
>> Retrospective of a successful Python User Group?
>
> I also don't know if ChiPy can shine a whole lot of light on the  
> matter
> -- the group seems to do fairly well despite our organizational 
> abilities, not because of it.
>
>

I like to think of it as just in time compiling for social  
gatherings ;-)

From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com  Thu Feb 21 18:44:11 2008
From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:44:11 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] March Chipy Meeting
In-Reply-To: <177A8320-0AE9-4C56-A215-DC0C598170E8@mac.com>
References: <200802202147.30509.pfein@pobox.com>
	<f5c6a5400802210738n478b80c7gd812b62bab88eb4f@mail.gmail.com>
	<47BDB50E.7000206@colorstudy.com>
	<177A8320-0AE9-4C56-A215-DC0C598170E8@mac.com>
Message-ID: <b571660a0802210944h6057fcadi3e4fb4dae5113ade@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 11:32 AM, Ted Pollari <tcp at mac.com> wrote:
>  I like to think of it as just in time compiling for social
>  gatherings ;-)

quote of the week

From pfein at pobox.com  Thu Feb 21 19:13:07 2008
From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:13:07 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] March Chipy Meeting
In-Reply-To: <47BDB50E.7000206@colorstudy.com>
References: <200802202147.30509.pfein@pobox.com>
	<f5c6a5400802210738n478b80c7gd812b62bab88eb4f@mail.gmail.com>
	<47BDB50E.7000206@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <200802211313.07824.pfein@pobox.com>

On Thursday February 21 2008 12:29:50 pm Ian Bicking wrote:
> DeanG wrote:
> > Is there any interest in devoting part of this meeting to a Q&A and/or
> > Retrospective of a successful Python User Group?
>
> I also don't know if ChiPy can shine a whole lot of light on the matter
> -- the group seems to do fairly well despite our organizational
> abilities, not because of it.

Heh, yeah.  Our recipe seems to be:

1. Mailing list
2. Chicago awesomeness
3. Profit!

Seriously tho, this came up in conversation at Pycon last year, and reflects a 
trend I've noticed about volunteer organizations here in general.  We just 
tend to do things bigger and better.  Maybe it's the blue-collar work ethic, 
or a talk-less-do-more attitude.  I dunno.

I mean really, it doesn't take much to get Chipy buttons made, for example.  
Someone comes up with an idea & a design, and then there are buttons.  
Adhocracy at it's finest.

-- 
Peter Fein   ||   773-575-0694   ||   pfein at pobox.com
http://www.pobox.com/~pfein/   ||   PGP: 0xCCF6AE6B
irc: pfein at freenode.net   ||   jabber: peter.fein at gmail.com

From cwebber at imagescape.com  Thu Feb 21 19:54:05 2008
From: cwebber at imagescape.com (Christopher Allan Webber)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:54:05 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] March Chipy Meeting
In-Reply-To: <200802211313.07824.pfein@pobox.com> (Pete's message of "Thu,
	21 Feb 2008 13:13:07 -0500")
References: <200802202147.30509.pfein@pobox.com>
	<f5c6a5400802210738n478b80c7gd812b62bab88eb4f@mail.gmail.com>
	<47BDB50E.7000206@colorstudy.com> <200802211313.07824.pfein@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <6yd4qq2l9u.fsf@imagescape.com>

Pete <pfein at pobox.com> writes:

> On Thursday February 21 2008 12:29:50 pm Ian Bicking wrote:
>> DeanG wrote:
>> > Is there any interest in devoting part of this meeting to a Q&A and/or
>> > Retrospective of a successful Python User Group?
>>
>> I also don't know if ChiPy can shine a whole lot of light on the matter
>> -- the group seems to do fairly well despite our organizational
>> abilities, not because of it.
>
> Heh, yeah.  Our recipe seems to be:
>
> 1. Mailing list
> 2. Chicago awesomeness
> 3. Profit!

It probably also helps that ChiPy has a pretty specific schedule.  Not
just "whenever another meeting is ready" but "every second thursday of
every month".

> Seriously tho, this came up in conversation at Pycon last year, and reflects a 
> trend I've noticed about volunteer organizations here in general.  We just 
> tend to do things bigger and better.  Maybe it's the blue-collar work ethic, 
> or a talk-less-do-more attitude.  I dunno.
>
> I mean really, it doesn't take much to get Chipy buttons made, for example.  
> Someone comes up with an idea & a design, and then there are buttons.  
> Adhocracy at it's finest.
>
> -- 
> Peter Fein   ||   773-575-0694   ||   pfein at pobox.com
> http://www.pobox.com/~pfein/   ||   PGP: 0xCCF6AE6B
> irc: pfein at freenode.net   ||   jabber: peter.fein at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From skip at pobox.com  Thu Feb 21 19:58:45 2008
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:58:45 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] March Chipy Meeting
In-Reply-To: <b571660a0802210944h6057fcadi3e4fb4dae5113ade@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200802202147.30509.pfein@pobox.com>
	<f5c6a5400802210738n478b80c7gd812b62bab88eb4f@mail.gmail.com>
	<47BDB50E.7000206@colorstudy.com>
	<177A8320-0AE9-4C56-A215-DC0C598170E8@mac.com>
	<b571660a0802210944h6057fcadi3e4fb4dae5113ade@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <18365.51685.37728.90593@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>


So have we definitely settled on March 13 (tutorial evening) for the March
meeting?  David Goodger enabled me to blog on the PyCon blog.  If someone
gives me enough assurance that's the date, I'll post a little blog.

Skip

From tcp at mac.com  Thu Feb 21 20:18:52 2008
From: tcp at mac.com (Ted Pollari)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:18:52 -0800
Subject: [Chicago] March Chipy Meeting
In-Reply-To: <18365.51685.37728.90593@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
References: <200802202147.30509.pfein@pobox.com>
	<f5c6a5400802210738n478b80c7gd812b62bab88eb4f@mail.gmail.com>
	<47BDB50E.7000206@colorstudy.com>
	<177A8320-0AE9-4C56-A215-DC0C598170E8@mac.com>
	<b571660a0802210944h6057fcadi3e4fb4dae5113ade@mail.gmail.com>
	<18365.51685.37728.90593@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
Message-ID: <AF946825-0490-435F-BD3D-2CD919529972@mac.com>


On Feb 21, 2008, at 10:58 AM, skip at pobox.com wrote:

>
> So have we definitely settled on March 13 (tutorial evening) for the  
> March
> meeting?  David Goodger enabled me to blog on the PyCon blog.  If  
> someone
> gives me enough assurance that's the date, I'll post a little blog.
>
> Skip


I'd wait on that until we're sure we'll have the space, which I think  
we're waiting on word from CTE about ballroom availability... I'd say  
give it a day or two and hopefully we'll be clear on what space we'll  
be able to use.

-tcp

From maney at two14.net  Thu Feb 21 21:00:12 2008
From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 14:00:12 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] March Chipy Meeting
In-Reply-To: <b571660a0802210944h6057fcadi3e4fb4dae5113ade@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200802202147.30509.pfein@pobox.com>
	<f5c6a5400802210738n478b80c7gd812b62bab88eb4f@mail.gmail.com>
	<47BDB50E.7000206@colorstudy.com>
	<177A8320-0AE9-4C56-A215-DC0C598170E8@mac.com>
	<b571660a0802210944h6057fcadi3e4fb4dae5113ade@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080221200012.GB13850@furrr.two14.net>

On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 11:44:11AM -0600, Kumar McMillan wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 11:32 AM, Ted Pollari <tcp at mac.com> wrote:
> >  I like to think of it as just in time compiling for social
> >  gatherings ;-)
> 
> quote of the week

Hell yeah.

-- 
[the combination of iPod and iTunes is like]
buying a 21st-century device
to live in the seventies.  -- Wes Phillips


From ken at stox.org  Wed Feb 20 06:42:37 2008
From: ken at stox.org (Kenneth P. Stox)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 23:42:37 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Flourish Conference
Message-ID: <1203486157.13009.196.camel@stox.dyndns.org>

For those on a tight budget, you can't beat the price:

Registration for Flourish Conference 2008 is now open.  Please register
if you plan on attending:

http://www.flourishconf.com/


From ramadeus at rcn.com  Wed Feb 20 21:11:42 2008
From: ramadeus at rcn.com (Mike Kramlich)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:11:42 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] board gaming at PyCon
Message-ID: <6854E461-8A43-4C33-A666-3C70712E1142@rcn.com>

oh I never planned on going to PyCon, not a wise use of my money right  
now. I just saw some posts on this list about how some ChiPy folks  
were going to get together to game at the con. I didn't know how  
"official" it was or whether it was inside the con space. There's no  
way I'd spend a big chunk of change just to play games for a few hours  
or whatever. Forget i mentioned it. Random impulse. :)

Mike Kramlich
ZodLogic Games

From korpios at korpios.com  Fri Feb 22 02:32:16 2008
From: korpios at korpios.com (Tom Tobin)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:32:16 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] board gaming at PyCon
In-Reply-To: <6854E461-8A43-4C33-A666-3C70712E1142@rcn.com>
References: <6854E461-8A43-4C33-A666-3C70712E1142@rcn.com>
Message-ID: <bf0b20a90802211732p6410b130y3076818d2d9e1505@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/20/08, Mike Kramlich <ramadeus at rcn.com> wrote:
> oh I never planned on going to PyCon, not a wise use of my money right
>  now. I just saw some posts on this list about how some ChiPy folks
>  were going to get together to game at the con. I didn't know how
>  "official" it was or whether it was inside the con space. There's no
>  way I'd spend a big chunk of change just to play games for a few hours
>  or whatever. Forget i mentioned it. Random impulse. :)

There are various gaming groups scattered throughout Chicagoland; I
found one on BoardGameGeek here in Oak Park, and have played twice
with them.  (I really ought to look into finding a second group, so I
can play once a week or so.)  ^_^

From jeffh at dundeemt.com  Fri Feb 22 04:27:56 2008
From: jeffh at dundeemt.com (Jeff Hinrichs - DM&T)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:27:56 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] March Chipy Meeting
In-Reply-To: <20080221200012.GB13850@furrr.two14.net>
References: <200802202147.30509.pfein@pobox.com>
	<f5c6a5400802210738n478b80c7gd812b62bab88eb4f@mail.gmail.com>
	<47BDB50E.7000206@colorstudy.com>
	<177A8320-0AE9-4C56-A215-DC0C598170E8@mac.com>
	<b571660a0802210944h6057fcadi3e4fb4dae5113ade@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080221200012.GB13850@furrr.two14.net>
Message-ID: <5aaed53f0802211927m7943b049ka3dc9ab745f035d0@mail.gmail.com>

I, as an outsider, am excited to attend a ChiPy  meeting.  I'll be
late as I'll be attending an evening tutorial.

stuffing'ly,

-jeff
an Omaha Python Users Group member.

On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 2:00 PM, Martin Maney <maney at two14.net> wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 11:44:11AM -0600, Kumar McMillan wrote:
>  > On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 11:32 AM, Ted Pollari <tcp at mac.com> wrote:
>  > >  I like to think of it as just in time compiling for social
>  > >  gatherings ;-)
>  >
>  > quote of the week
>
>  Hell yeah.
>
>  --
>  [the combination of iPod and iTunes is like]
>  buying a 21st-century device
>  to live in the seventies.  -- Wes Phillips
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Chicago mailing list
>  Chicago at python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From szybalski at gmail.com  Fri Feb 22 15:16:10 2008
From: szybalski at gmail.com (Lukasz Szybalski)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:16:10 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Address parser?
Message-ID: <804e5c70802220616t48fa5bddvb554a62225b193e0@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,
Could anybody point me to some kind of street address parser in python.

I am looking for something that can parse the address (123 N. Main
Street, Chicago IL 60601) and return:
street,
city,
state,
zip
optional: county.
optional: apt number

I guess it would be heavy regular expression based but who knows.  I
don't think Google has theirs available?

Anybody has or seen code like that?

Lucas


-- 
Vehicle Information Number. Check for Authentic VIN
http://lucasmanual.com/vin
TurboGears Documentation:
http://www.lucasmanual.com/mywiki/TurboGears

From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com  Fri Feb 22 16:23:50 2008
From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:23:50 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] board gaming at PyCon
In-Reply-To: <bf0b20a90802211732p6410b130y3076818d2d9e1505@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6854E461-8A43-4C33-A666-3C70712E1142@rcn.com>
	<bf0b20a90802211732p6410b130y3076818d2d9e1505@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b571660a0802220723m2b4ae940h890c708a1c4d5a1@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 7:32 PM, Tom Tobin <korpios at korpios.com> wrote:
>
>  There are various gaming groups scattered throughout Chicagoland; I
>  found one on BoardGameGeek here in Oak Park, and have played twice
>  with them.  (I really ought to look into finding a second group, so I
>  can play once a week or so.)  ^_^

I've never been but there is the Chicago Boardgames Meetup:
http://boardgames.meetup.com/44/

44 attendees for the Feb meeting.  Next one: March 11th.  Hmmm... one
might even be able to sneak that in before PyCon.  And they play at
the Goose Island cellar.  Beer + board gaming = great idea.

This thread is now officially OT! :)

From tprinty at mail.edisonave.net  Fri Feb 22 16:24:04 2008
From: tprinty at mail.edisonave.net (Tom Printy)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:24:04 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Address parser?
In-Reply-To: <804e5c70802220616t48fa5bddvb554a62225b193e0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <804e5c70802220616t48fa5bddvb554a62225b193e0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1203693844.513.7.camel@localhost>

Hi,

You might be able to do this with Yahoo!'s geocoder api. If you use the
freetext input it will spit back 

Latitude   The latitude of the location.   
Longitude   The longitude of the location.   
Address   Street address of the result, if a specific location could be
determined.   
City   City in which the result is located.   State   State in which the
result is located.   
Zip   Zip code, if known.   
Country   Country in which the result is located. 


Check out http://developer.yahoo.com/maps/rest/V1/geocode.html

Address parsing is a real pain, let somebody else do it.

On Fri, 2008-02-22 at 08:16 -0600, Lukasz Szybalski wrote:
> Hello,
> Could anybody point me to some kind of street address parser in python.
> 
> I am looking for something that can parse the address (123 N. Main
> Street, Chicago IL 60601) and return:
> street,
> city,
> state,
> zip
> optional: county.
> optional: apt number
> 
> I guess it would be heavy regular expression based but who knows.  I
> don't think Google has theirs available?
> 
> Anybody has or seen code like that?
> 
> Lucas
> 
> 


From mtobis at gmail.com  Fri Feb 22 18:00:29 2008
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:00:29 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Address parser?
In-Reply-To: <804e5c70802220616t48fa5bddvb554a62225b193e0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <804e5c70802220616t48fa5bddvb554a62225b193e0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c3aa55550802220900g66a0417ep28c6be59132ed33b@mail.gmail.com>

This depends on whether you want to make a best effort to parse every
address or just the ones already in a known format.

The every address case is very hard. I know someone who made a living
for a few years doing this for Canada, which is even harder. He
pointed out that he had a special case in his code for Avenue Road, a
major street in Toronto.

Michael Tobis
Building 196 Room 2.244
JJ Pickle Research Campus
University of Texas
10100 Burnet Rd
Austin Texas 78758-4445
(512) 471-0383

From szybalski at gmail.com  Fri Feb 22 18:08:22 2008
From: szybalski at gmail.com (Lukasz Szybalski)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:08:22 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Address parser?
In-Reply-To: <c3aa55550802220900g66a0417ep28c6be59132ed33b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <804e5c70802220616t48fa5bddvb554a62225b193e0@mail.gmail.com>
	<c3aa55550802220900g66a0417ep28c6be59132ed33b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <804e5c70802220908k54081844wb7bfdd1e8824e37e@mail.gmail.com>

The format is somewhat the same.

I have a list of body shops:
street address, city ,state, zip
for which I need the map (google maps I think will be a good choice)

When I map my database a user will input his address and he will be
able to see body shops in his location.
Now sure if that is what you mean by format but the address would be
in USA. Not sure how different that is from Canada.

Lucas

On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 11:00 AM, Michael Tobis <mtobis at gmail.com> wrote:
> This depends on whether you want to make a best effort to parse every
>  address or just the ones already in a known format.
>
>  The every address case is very hard. I know someone who made a living
>  for a few years doing this for Canada, which is even harder. He
>  pointed out that he had a special case in his code for Avenue Road, a
>  major street in Toronto.
>
>  Michael Tobis
>  Building 196 Room 2.244
>  JJ Pickle Research Campus
>  University of Texas
>  10100 Burnet Rd
>  Austin Texas 78758-4445
>  (512) 471-0383
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>  Chicago mailing list
>  Chicago at python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
Vehicle Information Number. Check for Authentic VIN
http://lucasmanual.com/vin
TurboGears Documentation:
http://www.lucasmanual.com/mywiki/TurboGears

From nerkles at gmail.com  Fri Feb 22 20:19:29 2008
From: nerkles at gmail.com (isaac)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 13:19:29 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] March Chipy Meeting
In-Reply-To: <5aaed53f0802211927m7943b049ka3dc9ab745f035d0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200802202147.30509.pfein@pobox.com>
	<f5c6a5400802210738n478b80c7gd812b62bab88eb4f@mail.gmail.com>
	<47BDB50E.7000206@colorstudy.com>
	<177A8320-0AE9-4C56-A215-DC0C598170E8@mac.com>
	<b571660a0802210944h6057fcadi3e4fb4dae5113ade@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080221200012.GB13850@furrr.two14.net>
	<5aaed53f0802211927m7943b049ka3dc9ab745f035d0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57427b5b0802221119k416d900dk921656b8f1204517@mail.gmail.com>

I'll be at a tutorial too, but I'll stop by if it's still going on.

--Isaac

From stcorbett at gmail.com  Fri Feb 22 22:50:28 2008
From: stcorbett at gmail.com (Sean Corbett)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:50:28 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Address parser?
In-Reply-To: <804e5c70802220908k54081844wb7bfdd1e8824e37e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <804e5c70802220616t48fa5bddvb554a62225b193e0@mail.gmail.com>
	<c3aa55550802220900g66a0417ep28c6be59132ed33b@mail.gmail.com>
	<804e5c70802220908k54081844wb7bfdd1e8824e37e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b7391af90802221350y6d0f2009wbf54aa18d20e6b08@mail.gmail.com>

Google's geocoding API is pretty solid as well.  There are many plugins for
Ruby and Rails, I imagine the same for Python.  You submit an address, it
returns the same addy 'normalized' to their format, with lat, lng, city,
state, zip, etc.  Some plugins offer multi geocoder support so that if
Google's dosen't work you fall back to Yahoo's.

I've been using Google's API for a few months on a production site to do
geocoding, I'd estimate < 1 request in 100 has problems.

-Sean Corbett

On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 11:08 AM, Lukasz Szybalski <szybalski at gmail.com>
wrote:

> The format is somewhat the same.
>
> I have a list of body shops:
> street address, city ,state, zip
> for which I need the map (google maps I think will be a good choice)
>
> When I map my database a user will input his address and he will be
> able to see body shops in his location.
> Now sure if that is what you mean by format but the address would be
> in USA. Not sure how different that is from Canada.
>
> Lucas
>
> On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 11:00 AM, Michael Tobis <mtobis at gmail.com> wrote:
> > This depends on whether you want to make a best effort to parse every
> >  address or just the ones already in a known format.
> >
> >  The every address case is very hard. I know someone who made a living
> >  for a few years doing this for Canada, which is even harder. He
> >  pointed out that he had a special case in his code for Avenue Road, a
> >  major street in Toronto.
> >
> >  Michael Tobis
> >  Building 196 Room 2.244
> >  JJ Pickle Research Campus
> >  University of Texas
> >  10100 Burnet Rd
> >  Austin Texas 78758-4445
> >  (512) 471-0383
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >  Chicago mailing list
> >  Chicago at python.org
> >  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Vehicle Information Number. Check for Authentic VIN
> http://lucasmanual.com/vin
> TurboGears Documentation:
> http://www.lucasmanual.com/mywiki/TurboGears
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
-------------- next part --------------
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From bray at sent.com  Sat Feb 23 20:47:46 2008
From: bray at sent.com (bray at sent.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:47:46 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Address parser?
In-Reply-To: <c3aa55550802220900g66a0417ep28c6be59132ed33b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <804e5c70802220616t48fa5bddvb554a62225b193e0@mail.gmail.com>
	<c3aa55550802220900g66a0417ep28c6be59132ed33b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1203796066.8657.1238630041@webmail.messagingengine.com>


On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:00:29 -0600, "Michael Tobis" <mtobis at gmail.com>
said:
> This depends on whether you want to make a best effort to parse every
> address or just the ones already in a known format.
> 
> The every address case is very hard. I know someone who made a living
> for a few years doing this for Canada, which is even harder. He
> pointed out that he had a special case in his code for Avenue Road, a
> major street in Toronto.
> 

I am not sure if this will help Lucas case; although, in general, you
can get (if you pay some money) some fixed width data files from
USPS/AIS <http://www.usps.com/ncsc/addressinfo/addressinfomenu.htm> that
contains the correctly formatted address data for every US address. You
can make a fuzzy string and predetermined rules bases match then use the
address from the big database. Its fairly easy to do with Python. OTOH,
there are some commercial software packages that do this for you (just
look for CASS certification software).

I noticed that if your address data makes it successfully through CASS
and then you try to GEO-code, you will have better results.  This is
more useful when your trying to get closer accuracy. Otherwise, its hard
to know what to do when your API does not like the address, at all.

Regards,

Brian Ray






From verisimilidude at gmail.com  Mon Feb 25 18:02:58 2008
From: verisimilidude at gmail.com (Phil Robare)
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 11:02:58 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Address parser?
In-Reply-To: <1203796066.8657.1238630041@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <804e5c70802220616t48fa5bddvb554a62225b193e0@mail.gmail.com>
	<c3aa55550802220900g66a0417ep28c6be59132ed33b@mail.gmail.com>
	<1203796066.8657.1238630041@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <6ad48f980802250902n6edfac25xb70d1c5c848870c9@mail.gmail.com>

Address parsing is a hard problem.  Not in the theoretical NP sense,
but in that it requires a lot of knowledge of special cases.
Addresses can be ambiguous or not depending upon information that the
application 'just has to know'.  For instance an address in Chicago of
320 Randolph is ambiguous - It could be east or west.  But an address
of 1320 Randolph is merely incomplete, needing West as part of the
street name. If the user dropped the space you could figure out where
1320 westrandolph street was.  But a Westmont Street would just be a
street named after a suburb.  It would probably be the same as an
address on Westmont Ave.  But Atlanta is (in)famous for having
multiple different roads all named Peachtree but having different
suffixes, e.g. Road, Avenue, Boulevard.  Usually digits are part of
the address and words are part of the street name.  Detroit, for
example, confounds things with "8 Mile Road". In many places a street
has multiple names, bearing both the local name and the highway route
name, so you get an address like 185 Rt 45.  There are people with the
last name of "Street" that have had a road named after them.  While
the block number might be useful for figuring out west or east in
Chicago, in the suburbs it can be a mess.  Arlington Heights Road goes
through a number of suburbs, many of them having their own numbering
system and their own east/west dividing point.  These addresses can be
ambiguous because no one knows which suburb they are in as they drive
along it. Most addresses are whole numbers but within the US there are
a number of places that use fractions (like 1/2) to specify part of a
duplex, and there are even places that use decimals in the address in
place of apartment numbers.  Another problem is that there are
multiple towns with the same name in some states, so the county has to
be part of the address (or the zip code has to be checked).

So, as far as I know, there are no good public domain address parsers
because of the amount of work it takes to create one and the
dependence of the parsing upon an underlying map.  If you are a direct
marketer mailing hundreds of pieces the post office parser may be a
good choice.  But if you are working for a web retailer who would just
like to make sure the user typed an address that can be mailed to I
think the Google API would be an option (depending upon terms of use -
I don't know how restricted they are with regards to businesses using
it.)  Navteq and Teleatlas have commercial offerings that I am not
very familiar with.

Asking the person entering the data to put in a house number field, a
street name, a street type, direction suffix/prefix, etc. can make the
job of the coder easier but will frustrate those who have to enter an
address that doesn't fit the model.

Phil

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Mon Feb 25 18:35:45 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 11:35:45 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Address parser?
In-Reply-To: <6ad48f980802250902n6edfac25xb70d1c5c848870c9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <804e5c70802220616t48fa5bddvb554a62225b193e0@mail.gmail.com>
	<c3aa55550802220900g66a0417ep28c6be59132ed33b@mail.gmail.com>
	<1203796066.8657.1238630041@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<6ad48f980802250902n6edfac25xb70d1c5c848870c9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E4C601B2-C5C8-44BA-9C06-2C9D23C6E6D3@cs.depaul.edu>

You may want to look into this

    http://exogen.case.edu/projects/geopy/

I also have my own which I use for

    http://www.appealmypropertytaxes.com

Mine performs normalization based on the USPS specifications. They  
have a very long document that say you should use AVE and not AVENUE  
or AV., you should use N and not NORTH, etc. My parser works in most  
cases and it is specifically  designed to translate addresses into  
web2py database queries. It is not freely available but I can make it  
available to web2py users if there is a need.

Massimo

On Feb 25, 2008, at 11:02 AM, Phil Robare wrote:

> Address parsing is a hard problem.  Not in the theoretical NP sense,
> but in that it requires a lot of knowledge of special cases.
> Addresses can be ambiguous or not depending upon information that the
> application 'just has to know'.  For instance an address in Chicago of
> 320 Randolph is ambiguous - It could be east or west.  But an address
> of 1320 Randolph is merely incomplete, needing West as part of the
> street name. If the user dropped the space you could figure out where
> 1320 westrandolph street was.  But a Westmont Street would just be a
> street named after a suburb.  It would probably be the same as an
> address on Westmont Ave.  But Atlanta is (in)famous for having
> multiple different roads all named Peachtree but having different
> suffixes, e.g. Road, Avenue, Boulevard.  Usually digits are part of
> the address and words are part of the street name.  Detroit, for
> example, confounds things with "8 Mile Road". In many places a street
> has multiple names, bearing both the local name and the highway route
> name, so you get an address like 185 Rt 45.  There are people with the
> last name of "Street" that have had a road named after them.  While
> the block number might be useful for figuring out west or east in
> Chicago, in the suburbs it can be a mess.  Arlington Heights Road goes
> through a number of suburbs, many of them having their own numbering
> system and their own east/west dividing point.  These addresses can be
> ambiguous because no one knows which suburb they are in as they drive
> along it. Most addresses are whole numbers but within the US there are
> a number of places that use fractions (like 1/2) to specify part of a
> duplex, and there are even places that use decimals in the address in
> place of apartment numbers.  Another problem is that there are
> multiple towns with the same name in some states, so the county has to
> be part of the address (or the zip code has to be checked).
>
> So, as far as I know, there are no good public domain address parsers
> because of the amount of work it takes to create one and the
> dependence of the parsing upon an underlying map.  If you are a direct
> marketer mailing hundreds of pieces the post office parser may be a
> good choice.  But if you are working for a web retailer who would just
> like to make sure the user typed an address that can be mailed to I
> think the Google API would be an option (depending upon terms of use -
> I don't know how restricted they are with regards to businesses using
> it.)  Navteq and Teleatlas have commercial offerings that I am not
> very familiar with.
>
> Asking the person entering the data to put in a house number field, a
> street name, a street type, direction suffix/prefix, etc. can make the
> job of the coder easier but will frustrate those who have to enter an
> address that doesn't fit the model.
>
> Phil
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From cwebber at imagescape.com  Mon Feb 25 19:14:33 2008
From: cwebber at imagescape.com (Christopher Allan Webber)
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 12:14:33 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Address parser?
In-Reply-To: <E4C601B2-C5C8-44BA-9C06-2C9D23C6E6D3@cs.depaul.edu> (Massimo Di
	Pierro's message of "Mon, 25 Feb 2008 11:35:45 -0600")
References: <804e5c70802220616t48fa5bddvb554a62225b193e0@mail.gmail.com>
	<c3aa55550802220900g66a0417ep28c6be59132ed33b@mail.gmail.com>
	<1203796066.8657.1238630041@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<6ad48f980802250902n6edfac25xb70d1c5c848870c9@mail.gmail.com>
	<E4C601B2-C5C8-44BA-9C06-2C9D23C6E6D3@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <6yir0crjhy.fsf@imagescape.com>

Massimo Di Pierro <mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu> writes:

> You may want to look into this
>
>     http://exogen.case.edu/projects/geopy/
>
> I also have my own which I use for
>
>     http://www.appealmypropertytaxes.com
>
> Mine performs normalization based on the USPS specifications. They  
> have a very long document that say you should use AVE and not AVENUE  
> or AV., you should use N and not NORTH, etc. My parser works in most  
> cases and it is specifically  designed to translate addresses into  
> web2py database queries. It is not freely available but I can make it  
> available to web2py users if there is a need.
>
> Massimo

That sounds pretty neat, and not just for web2py users.  I would love
to see this released as a standalone module.

> On Feb 25, 2008, at 11:02 AM, Phil Robare wrote:
>
>> Address parsing is a hard problem.  Not in the theoretical NP sense,
>> but in that it requires a lot of knowledge of special cases.
>> Addresses can be ambiguous or not depending upon information that the
>> application 'just has to know'.  For instance an address in Chicago of
>> 320 Randolph is ambiguous - It could be east or west.  But an address
>> of 1320 Randolph is merely incomplete, needing West as part of the
>> street name. If the user dropped the space you could figure out where
>> 1320 westrandolph street was.  But a Westmont Street would just be a
>> street named after a suburb.  It would probably be the same as an
>> address on Westmont Ave.  But Atlanta is (in)famous for having
>> multiple different roads all named Peachtree but having different
>> suffixes, e.g. Road, Avenue, Boulevard.  Usually digits are part of
>> the address and words are part of the street name.  Detroit, for
>> example, confounds things with "8 Mile Road". In many places a street
>> has multiple names, bearing both the local name and the highway route
>> name, so you get an address like 185 Rt 45.  There are people with the
>> last name of "Street" that have had a road named after them.  While
>> the block number might be useful for figuring out west or east in
>> Chicago, in the suburbs it can be a mess.  Arlington Heights Road goes
>> through a number of suburbs, many of them having their own numbering
>> system and their own east/west dividing point.  These addresses can be
>> ambiguous because no one knows which suburb they are in as they drive
>> along it. Most addresses are whole numbers but within the US there are
>> a number of places that use fractions (like 1/2) to specify part of a
>> duplex, and there are even places that use decimals in the address in
>> place of apartment numbers.  Another problem is that there are
>> multiple towns with the same name in some states, so the county has to
>> be part of the address (or the zip code has to be checked).
>>
>> So, as far as I know, there are no good public domain address parsers
>> because of the amount of work it takes to create one and the
>> dependence of the parsing upon an underlying map.  If you are a direct
>> marketer mailing hundreds of pieces the post office parser may be a
>> good choice.  But if you are working for a web retailer who would just
>> like to make sure the user typed an address that can be mailed to I
>> think the Google API would be an option (depending upon terms of use -
>> I don't know how restricted they are with regards to businesses using
>> it.)  Navteq and Teleatlas have commercial offerings that I am not
>> very familiar with.
>>
>> Asking the person entering the data to put in a house number field, a
>> street name, a street type, direction suffix/prefix, etc. can make the
>> job of the coder easier but will frustrate those who have to enter an
>> address that doesn't fit the model.
>>
>> Phil
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From cwebber at imagescape.com  Mon Feb 25 19:19:30 2008
From: cwebber at imagescape.com (Christopher Allan Webber)
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 12:19:30 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Flourish Conference
In-Reply-To: <1203486157.13009.196.camel@stox.dyndns.org> (Kenneth P. Stox's
	message of "Tue, 19 Feb 2008 23:42:37 -0600")
References: <1203486157.13009.196.camel@stox.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <6yprukq4p9.fsf@imagescape.com>

I'll chime in here and say that I went to Flourish last year, and it
was awesome.  I'd definetly recommend coming if you can.

"Kenneth P. Stox" <ken at stox.org> writes:

> For those on a tight budget, you can't beat the price:
>
> Registration for Flourish Conference 2008 is now open.  Please register
> if you plan on attending:
>
> http://www.flourishconf.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From lostson at lostsonsvault.org  Mon Feb 25 22:04:18 2008
From: lostson at lostsonsvault.org (lostson)
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 15:04:18 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] hello all
Message-ID: <20080225150418.0ff81483.lostson@lostsonsvault.org>


 Hello I am new to this list but saw it in the python website and was hoping maybe someone could give me a hand. I have started working with python and found a irc bot tutorial and am having problems. here is my code so far 

##
import irclib
import time
irclib.DEBUG = True

# Connection information
network = 'irc.wirednetwork.org'
port = 6667
nick = 'lostbot'
name = 'lostbot'
channel = '#thevault'

# Create an IRC object
irc = irclib.IRC()

# Create a server object, connect and join the channel
server = irc.server()
server.connect ( network, port, nick, ircname = name )
server.join ( channel )

# Jump into an infinite loop
irc.process_forever()
## 

 This works on every other network but my friends it appears it is trying to join the channel to quickly and kicks an error back. It the goes through the rest of the way but does not join the channel. I have tried using the time.sleep option but this does not work either. So my question is how can i make it so it goes through normal process getting to the server the after it is connected have it join a channel ? Thanks

< ------ >
lostson 

http://lostsonsvault.org

Create Your Own Desktop - AfterStep - http://www.afterstep.org
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From jsudlow at gmail.com  Mon Feb 25 23:33:44 2008
From: jsudlow at gmail.com (Jon Sudlow)
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 16:33:44 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] hello all
In-Reply-To: <20080225150418.0ff81483.lostson@lostsonsvault.org>
References: <20080225150418.0ff81483.lostson@lostsonsvault.org>
Message-ID: <eb9a21ad0802251433s55e62ca8jcae3cd463c9017b7@mail.gmail.com>

what error does it send back to you?

As a design question, why not loop through the channel joining process in a
while loop. Then you could have some way to verify that you have actually
connected, so it could dump you out of the loop and into the main core of
your bot's functionality.

On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 3:04 PM, lostson <lostson at lostsonsvault.org> wrote:

>
>  Hello I am new to this list but saw it in the python website and was
> hoping maybe someone could give me a hand. I have started working with
> python and found a irc bot tutorial and am having problems. here is my code
> so far
>
> ##
> import irclib
> import time
> irclib.DEBUG = True
>
> # Connection information
> network = 'irc.wirednetwork.org'
> port = 6667
> nick = 'lostbot'
> name = 'lostbot'
> channel = '#thevault'
>
> # Create an IRC object
> irc = irclib.IRC()
>
> # Create a server object, connect and join the channel
> server = irc.server()
> server.connect ( network, port, nick, ircname = name )
> server.join ( channel )
>
> # Jump into an infinite loop
> irc.process_forever()
> ##
>
>  This works on every other network but my friends it appears it is trying
> to join the channel to quickly and kicks an error back. It the goes through
> the rest of the way but does not join the channel. I have tried using the
> time.sleep option but this does not work either. So my question is how can
> i make it so it goes through normal process getting to the server the after
> it is connected have it join a channel ? Thanks
>
> < ------ >
> lostson
>
> http://lostsonsvault.org
>
> Create Your Own Desktop - AfterStep - http://www.afterstep.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>


-- 
Jon Sudlow
3225 Foster Avenue
221 Sohlberg Hall
C.P.O 2224
Chicago, Il  60625
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From garrett at mojave-corp.com  Mon Feb 25 20:34:47 2008
From: garrett at mojave-corp.com (Garrett Smith)
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 13:34:47 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Chicago] Gently off topic: independent contractors and contracts
Message-ID: <007201c877e8$2ba60e00$0701a8c0@mojave.local>

I have this friend. He's smart (so you know I'm not really talking about
myself) and a lawyer. In the past he's helped me sort out some issues with
sundry contract issues related to software development.

Question to any independent software developers on the list: Do you ever
find yourself wanting a legal review of a software contract to make sure
you're not missing anything important?

If you're anything like me, you're a cheap bastard (okay, "cost
conscious") and don't want to engage a full fledged firm because you
suspect they'll over charge you for what should be a simple and reasonably
priced service. All you really need is perhaps a $200-$300 review by a
competent tech attorney to make sure you've got your bases covered in the
agreement.

Anyone been in that position before? Thoughts on a simple, fixed-fee price
for such services?

Garrett

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Mon Feb 25 23:54:51 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 16:54:51 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Gently off topic: independent contractors and
	contracts
In-Reply-To: <007201c877e8$2ba60e00$0701a8c0@mojave.local>
References: <007201c877e8$2ba60e00$0701a8c0@mojave.local>
Message-ID: <4B33440D-4A2F-401E-B381-C12D7AECE199@cs.depaul.edu>

What about building  web site where people can post and download  
existing contracts (anonimized, categorized, and commented) to find  
out what they need.
I can create the web site tomorrow if people have something to post.

Massimo

On Feb 25, 2008, at 1:34 PM, Garrett Smith wrote:

> I have this friend. He's smart (so you know I'm not really talking  
> about
> myself) and a lawyer. In the past he's helped me sort out some  
> issues with
> sundry contract issues related to software development.
>
> Question to any independent software developers on the list: Do you  
> ever
> find yourself wanting a legal review of a software contract to make  
> sure
> you're not missing anything important?
>
> If you're anything like me, you're a cheap bastard (okay, "cost
> conscious") and don't want to engage a full fledged firm because you
> suspect they'll over charge you for what should be a simple and  
> reasonably
> priced service. All you really need is perhaps a $200-$300 review by a
> competent tech attorney to make sure you've got your bases covered  
> in the
> agreement.
>
> Anyone been in that position before? Thoughts on a simple, fixed- 
> fee price
> for such services?
>
> Garrett
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From bob.haugen at gmail.com  Tue Feb 26 00:38:38 2008
From: bob.haugen at gmail.com (Bob Haugen)
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 17:38:38 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Gently off topic: independent contractors and
	contracts
In-Reply-To: <007201c877e8$2ba60e00$0701a8c0@mojave.local>
References: <007201c877e8$2ba60e00$0701a8c0@mojave.local>
Message-ID: <343ecb3e0802251538g7a115832s363fbd09901dbcaf@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 1:34 PM, Garrett Smith <garrett at mojave-corp.com> wrote:
> All you really need is perhaps a $200-$300 review by a
> competent tech attorney to make sure you've got your bases covered in the
> agreement.
>
> Anyone been in that position before? Thoughts on a simple, fixed-fee price
> for such services?

I've done it, awhile ago.  Cost me $500, but it involved complicated
issues that required some research.

That website sounds good to me, though, Massimo.

From tprinty at mail.edisonave.net  Tue Feb 26 02:32:31 2008
From: tprinty at mail.edisonave.net (Tom Printy)
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 19:32:31 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Gently off topic: independent contractors
	and	contracts
In-Reply-To: <007201c877e8$2ba60e00$0701a8c0@mojave.local>
References: <007201c877e8$2ba60e00$0701a8c0@mojave.local>
Message-ID: <1203989551.5645.0.camel@localhost>

There are some prepaid legal services that you can use.  I have never
used them but I am aware that they exist.

-Tom



On Mon, 2008-02-25 at 13:34 -0600, Garrett Smith wrote:
> I have this friend. He's smart (so you know I'm not really talking about
> myself) and a lawyer. In the past he's helped me sort out some issues with
> sundry contract issues related to software development.
> 
> Question to any independent software developers on the list: Do you ever
> find yourself wanting a legal review of a software contract to make sure
> you're not missing anything important?
> 
> If you're anything like me, you're a cheap bastard (okay, "cost
> conscious") and don't want to engage a full fledged firm because you
> suspect they'll over charge you for what should be a simple and reasonably
> priced service. All you really need is perhaps a $200-$300 review by a
> competent tech attorney to make sure you've got your bases covered in the
> agreement.
> 
> Anyone been in that position before? Thoughts on a simple, fixed-fee price
> for such services?
> 
> Garrett
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From garrett at mojave-corp.com  Tue Feb 26 19:36:59 2008
From: garrett at mojave-corp.com (Garrett Smith)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 12:36:59 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Chicago] Gently off topic: independent contractors andcontracts
In-Reply-To: <4B33440D-4A2F-401E-B381-C12D7AECE199@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <010a01c878a9$42d9b830$0701a8c0@mojave.local>

Interesting idea. Ironically, there might be some legal issues in creating
a site that stores confidential information like pending contracts, etc.
Hmmm.

On , chicago-bounces+garrett=mojave-corp.com at python.org wrote:

> What about building  web site where people can post and download
> existing contracts (anonimized, categorized, and commented) to find
> out what they need. I can create the web site tomorrow if people have
> something to post. 
> 
> Massimo
> 
> On Feb 25, 2008, at 1:34 PM, Garrett Smith wrote:
> 
>> I have this friend. He's smart (so you know I'm not really talking
>> about myself) and a lawyer. In the past he's helped me sort out some
>> issues with sundry contract issues related to software development.
>> 
>> Question to any independent software developers on the list: Do you
>> ever find yourself wanting a legal review of a software contract to
>> make sure you're not missing anything important?
>> 
>> If you're anything like me, you're a cheap bastard (okay, "cost
>> conscious") and don't want to engage a full fledged firm because you
>> suspect they'll over charge you for what should be a simple and
>> reasonably priced service. All you really need is perhaps a
>> $200-$300 review by a competent tech attorney to make sure you've
>> got your bases covered in the agreement.
>> 
>> Anyone been in that position before? Thoughts on a simple, fixed-
>> fee price for such services?
>> 
>> Garrett
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Tue Feb 26 20:39:31 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 13:39:31 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Gently off topic: independent contractors andcontracts
In-Reply-To: <010a01c878a9$42d9b830$0701a8c0@mojave.local>
References: <010a01c878a9$42d9b830$0701a8c0@mojave.local>
Message-ID: <727CC5FD-CAD4-4A2B-AD83-1D7EB1F85E68@cs.depaul.edu>

Not if they are completely anonimized (no reference to the parties  
involved).

Massimo

On Feb 26, 2008, at 12:36 PM, Garrett Smith wrote:

> Interesting idea. Ironically, there might be some legal issues in  
> creating
> a site that stores confidential information like pending contracts,  
> etc.
> Hmmm.
>
> On , chicago-bounces+garrett=mojave-corp.com at python.org wrote:
>
>> What about building  web site where people can post and download
>> existing contracts (anonimized, categorized, and commented) to find
>> out what they need. I can create the web site tomorrow if people have
>> something to post.
>>
>> Massimo
>>
>> On Feb 25, 2008, at 1:34 PM, Garrett Smith wrote:
>>
>>> I have this friend. He's smart (so you know I'm not really talking
>>> about myself) and a lawyer. In the past he's helped me sort out some
>>> issues with sundry contract issues related to software development.
>>>
>>> Question to any independent software developers on the list: Do you
>>> ever find yourself wanting a legal review of a software contract to
>>> make sure you're not missing anything important?
>>>
>>> If you're anything like me, you're a cheap bastard (okay, "cost
>>> conscious") and don't want to engage a full fledged firm because you
>>> suspect they'll over charge you for what should be a simple and
>>> reasonably priced service. All you really need is perhaps a
>>> $200-$300 review by a competent tech attorney to make sure you've
>>> got your bases covered in the agreement.
>>>
>>> Anyone been in that position before? Thoughts on a simple, fixed-
>>> fee price for such services?
>>>
>>> Garrett
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From skip at pobox.com  Tue Feb 26 21:41:18 2008
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 14:41:18 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Any interest in taste testing the PyCon menu this
	Saturday?
Message-ID: <18372.31086.210465.537491@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>


I am going to the conference hotel Saturday at noon to taste test the food
on the PyCon menu.  I won't be able to eat it all myself (so Ewa @ CTE
says).  Would anyone care to meet me at the hotel to sample the food?

Skip

From mandric at gmail.com  Tue Feb 26 22:15:33 2008
From: mandric at gmail.com (Milan Andric)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 15:15:33 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Gently off topic: independent contractors andcontracts
In-Reply-To: <727CC5FD-CAD4-4A2B-AD83-1D7EB1F85E68@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <010a01c878a9$42d9b830$0701a8c0@mojave.local>
	<727CC5FD-CAD4-4A2B-AD83-1D7EB1F85E68@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <536089f30802261315l57affcbem8fac4c6f6ffd10a6@mail.gmail.com>

Also known as legal templates.

On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 1:39 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
<mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
> Not if they are completely anonimized (no reference to the parties
>  involved).
>
>  Massimo
>
>
>
>  On Feb 26, 2008, at 12:36 PM, Garrett Smith wrote:
>
>  > Interesting idea. Ironically, there might be some legal issues in
>  > creating
>  > a site that stores confidential information like pending contracts,
>  > etc.
>  > Hmmm.
>  >
>  > On , chicago-bounces+garrett=mojave-corp.com at python.org wrote:
>  >
>  >> What about building  web site where people can post and download
>  >> existing contracts (anonimized, categorized, and commented) to find
>  >> out what they need. I can create the web site tomorrow if people have
>  >> something to post.
>  >>
>  >> Massimo
>  >>
>  >> On Feb 25, 2008, at 1:34 PM, Garrett Smith wrote:
>  >>
>  >>> I have this friend. He's smart (so you know I'm not really talking
>  >>> about myself) and a lawyer. In the past he's helped me sort out some
>  >>> issues with sundry contract issues related to software development.
>  >>>
>  >>> Question to any independent software developers on the list: Do you
>  >>> ever find yourself wanting a legal review of a software contract to
>  >>> make sure you're not missing anything important?
>  >>>
>  >>> If you're anything like me, you're a cheap bastard (okay, "cost
>  >>> conscious") and don't want to engage a full fledged firm because you
>  >>> suspect they'll over charge you for what should be a simple and
>  >>> reasonably priced service. All you really need is perhaps a
>  >>> $200-$300 review by a competent tech attorney to make sure you've
>  >>> got your bases covered in the agreement.
>  >>>
>  >>> Anyone been in that position before? Thoughts on a simple, fixed-
>  >>> fee price for such services?
>  >>>
>  >>> Garrett
>  >>> _______________________________________________
>  >>> Chicago mailing list
>  >>> Chicago at python.org
>  >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>  >>
>  >> _______________________________________________
>  >> Chicago mailing list
>  >> Chicago at python.org
>  >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>  >
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > Chicago mailing list
>  > Chicago at python.org
>  > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Chicago mailing list
>  Chicago at python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
Milan

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Tue Feb 26 22:21:28 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 15:21:28 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Gently off topic: independent contractors andcontracts
In-Reply-To: <536089f30802261315l57affcbem8fac4c6f6ffd10a6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <010a01c878a9$42d9b830$0701a8c0@mojave.local>
	<727CC5FD-CAD4-4A2B-AD83-1D7EB1F85E68@cs.depaul.edu>
	<536089f30802261315l57affcbem8fac4c6f6ffd10a6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D925FEBB-8F80-46DC-A733-A5ACC03FCE80@cs.depaul.edu>

Here you go. Start posting!

https://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/LegalTemplates

On Feb 26, 2008, at 3:15 PM, Milan Andric wrote:

> Also known as legal templates.
>
> On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 1:39 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
> <mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
>> Not if they are completely anonimized (no reference to the parties
>>  involved).
>>
>>  Massimo
>>
>>
>>
>>  On Feb 26, 2008, at 12:36 PM, Garrett Smith wrote:
>>
>>> Interesting idea. Ironically, there might be some legal issues in
>>> creating
>>> a site that stores confidential information like pending contracts,
>>> etc.
>>> Hmmm.
>>>
>>> On , chicago-bounces+garrett=mojave-corp.com at python.org wrote:
>>>
>>>> What about building  web site where people can post and download
>>>> existing contracts (anonimized, categorized, and commented) to find
>>>> out what they need. I can create the web site tomorrow if people  
>>>> have
>>>> something to post.
>>>>
>>>> Massimo
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 25, 2008, at 1:34 PM, Garrett Smith wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I have this friend. He's smart (so you know I'm not really talking
>>>>> about myself) and a lawyer. In the past he's helped me sort out  
>>>>> some
>>>>> issues with sundry contract issues related to software  
>>>>> development.
>>>>>
>>>>> Question to any independent software developers on the list: Do  
>>>>> you
>>>>> ever find yourself wanting a legal review of a software  
>>>>> contract to
>>>>> make sure you're not missing anything important?
>>>>>
>>>>> If you're anything like me, you're a cheap bastard (okay, "cost
>>>>> conscious") and don't want to engage a full fledged firm  
>>>>> because you
>>>>> suspect they'll over charge you for what should be a simple and
>>>>> reasonably priced service. All you really need is perhaps a
>>>>> $200-$300 review by a competent tech attorney to make sure you've
>>>>> got your bases covered in the agreement.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyone been in that position before? Thoughts on a simple, fixed-
>>>>> fee price for such services?
>>>>>
>>>>> Garrett
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  Chicago mailing list
>>  Chicago at python.org
>>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Milan
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com  Wed Feb 27 05:58:58 2008
From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 22:58:58 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] PyCon practice day (next week)
In-Reply-To: <47BC9F2C.7020403@personnelware.com>
References: <615422.85730.qm@web34813.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<47BC9F2C.7020403@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <b571660a0802262058l4d353e6cl661e60bd70d980df@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 3:44 PM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:
> Hotel asked me when, I told them Feb 28, waiting to hear a confirmation.

Hi Carl.
Any confirmation?  Thursday is creeping up.  I am still up for it if
they let us into the room.  Feihong, are you still presenting too?
Even if it's just the 3 of us it will still be awesome because A) my
talk was inspired by Carl [1] and I want him to see it over and over
again; B) Carl needs a full practice run using the hotel's A / V
system; and C) I need a practice run myself.  But anyone is welcome to
attend :)

FYI to all, the hotel parking lot is $18.  I believe the Rosemont lot
is $6 and perhaps other people have better parking ideas.  I might
just drive from Uptown (where I live) straight to the Blue Line and
park somewhere by the closest station.

[1] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/2007-November/002890.html


>
>  The rooms aren't used much in the evening, so I don't see why it won't happen.
>
>  I'll post to the list as soon as I get a confirmation.
>
>  Carl K
>
>
>
>  Feihong Hsu wrote:
>  > So, it's next Thursday (Feb 28), from 7 am to 7:30 pm, at the Crowne
>  > Plaza in Rosemont?
>  >
>  > I should be able to make it. Haven't decided if I want to do my .NET
>  > talk or part of our tutorial...
>  >
>  >
>  > --- Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:
>  >
>  >> Kumar McMillan wrote:
>  >>> On Feb 20, 2008 9:35 AM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com>
>  >> wrote:
>  >>>> So, who wants to give their presentation, and when?
>  >>>>
>  >>>> Thursday seems like a good choice.  We can start earlier (6?),
>  >> especially if we
>  >>>> get more than 2 speakers.  If we get 10, we can start at 8am and
>  >> go all day.
>  >>>> Not sure how many people will show up, but camera will be
>  >> rolling, so come on down!
>  >>> I'm in.
>  >>>
>  >>> Unicode in Python, Completely Demystified
>  >>> Carl, unless we get crowded with talks, can we do a 7pm start?  I
>  >> have
>  >>> to travel from Evanston after work but I am flexible if that is
>  >> too
>  >>> late.  Any Thursday should work for me.  Next Thursday would be
>  >>> optimal but I can do tomorrow I suppose.
>  >> I was thinking next Thurs, Feb 28.  sometimes I forget to type what
>  >> I think...
>  >>
>  >> 7 - 7:30.  we can let Q/A go on forever, but it's good to practice
>  >> getting your
>  >> talk done on time.
>  >>
>  >> Carl K
>  >> _______________________________________________
>  >> Chicago mailing list
>  >> Chicago at python.org
>  >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>  >>
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >       ____________________________________________________________________________________
>  > Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
>  > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > Chicago mailing list
>  > Chicago at python.org
>  > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>  >
>  >
>  _______________________________________________
>  Chicago mailing list
>  Chicago at python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From skip at pobox.com  Wed Feb 27 15:31:29 2008
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 08:31:29 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] MPI in Python?
Message-ID: <18373.29761.683703.653997@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>

Is anyone using MPI within Python to harness the compute power of multiple
CPU machines?  I see two MPI packages available for Python:

    http://mpi4py.scipy.org/
    http://sourceforge.net/projects/pympi/

Any idea which of these is "better" for some vague definition of the word?
Is MPI too low-level?  Is there something higher-level on top of it?  I've
been playing around with Richard Oudkerk's processing package (see entry in
PyPI: http://pypi.python.org/pypi/processing).  That provides an interface
very much like Python's threading package, which makes it pretty easy to
use.  It's not based on MPI though.  A marriage of the two might be nice.

Any thoughts?

Skip


From dgriff1 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 27 16:14:25 2008
From: dgriff1 at gmail.com (Daniel Griffin)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 09:14:25 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] MPI in Python?
In-Reply-To: <18373.29761.683703.653997@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
References: <18373.29761.683703.653997@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
Message-ID: <3db160680802270714x6490fc0apcc40379bf1564899@mail.gmail.com>

What are you attempting to do with MPI? I write threaded C at work and its
no big chore to use a few globals and locks to get things done.

Dan

On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 8:31 AM, <skip at pobox.com> wrote:

> Is anyone using MPI within Python to harness the compute power of multiple
> CPU machines?  I see two MPI packages available for Python:
>
>    http://mpi4py.scipy.org/
>    http://sourceforge.net/projects/pympi/
>
> Any idea which of these is "better" for some vague definition of the word?
> Is MPI too low-level?  Is there something higher-level on top of it?  I've
> been playing around with Richard Oudkerk's processing package (see entry
> in
> PyPI: http://pypi.python.org/pypi/processing).  That provides an interface
> very much like Python's threading package, which makes it pretty easy to
> use.  It's not based on MPI though.  A marriage of the two might be nice.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Skip
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080227/8e321694/attachment.htm 

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Wed Feb 27 16:21:38 2008
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 09:21:38 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] MPI in Python?
In-Reply-To: <18373.29761.683703.653997@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
References: <18373.29761.683703.653997@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0802270721x1deca88ej251e58407a31ca9d@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 8:31 AM,  <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
> Is anyone using MPI within Python to harness the compute power of multiple
>  CPU machines?

No, but I love your use of the phrase "harness the compute power."  Well played.

I have been playing around with IPython1, the poorly named
very-easy-to-use clustering thing:
http://ipython.scipy.org/moin/IPython1

Peter Skomoroch (http://www.datawrangling.com/) is presenting at Pycon
on clustering with MPI on Amazon EC2.  I had proposed a similar talk,
just replacing MPI with IPython1.  We were going to collaborate, but I
ended up dropping out.  Peter is still going to (I think) touch on
some IPython1 stuff in his talk.

As an aside, I'm (very slowly) reading the O'Reilly book "Collective
Intelligence" which explains pretty clearly a handful of common data
mining techniques.  I'd like to start playing around with them with
IPython1 applying them to the Netflix data set, probably after Pycon.
I planned on working in my public subversion repository, to be...you
know..public.  I'll post links if I ever get anything done.  Again,
probably after Pycon.

Chris

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Wed Feb 27 17:16:25 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 10:16:25 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] MPI in Python?
In-Reply-To: <18373.29761.683703.653997@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
References: <18373.29761.683703.653997@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
Message-ID: <0DF17B0E-9A62-4F69-B696-28107BF1BB0D@cs.depaul.edu>

If you need parallelization ,you care about speed. If you care about  
speed use C/C++.
In C/C++ there are many libraries based on MPI that allow programming  
at higher level (for example http://www.fermiqcd.net, despite the  
pitch for physics it is actually very general for mesh based  
algorithms).

You use threads on shared memory machines (like a SG), you use MPI on  
distributed memory machines (like a cluster). There is really no choice.

Massimo


On Feb 27, 2008, at 8:31 AM, skip at pobox.com wrote:

> Is anyone using MPI within Python to harness the compute power of  
> multiple
> CPU machines?  I see two MPI packages available for Python:
>
>     http://mpi4py.scipy.org/
>     http://sourceforge.net/projects/pympi/
>
> Any idea which of these is "better" for some vague definition of  
> the word?
> Is MPI too low-level?  Is there something higher-level on top of  
> it?  I've
> been playing around with Richard Oudkerk's processing package (see  
> entry in
> PyPI: http://pypi.python.org/pypi/processing).  That provides an  
> interface
> very much like Python's threading package, which makes it pretty  
> easy to
> use.  It's not based on MPI though.  A marriage of the two might be  
> nice.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Skip
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From carl at personnelware.com  Wed Feb 27 17:46:53 2008
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 10:46:53 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] PyCon practice day (next week)
In-Reply-To: <b571660a0802262058l4d353e6cl661e60bd70d980df@mail.gmail.com>
References: <615422.85730.qm@web34813.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<47BC9F2C.7020403@personnelware.com>
	<b571660a0802262058l4d353e6cl661e60bd70d980df@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47C593FD.90904@personnelware.com>

Checking. (again)

been having e-mail troubles, including getting un-subscribed to this list, and 
not getting anything with a 1 word subject.

duh.

Carl K

Kumar McMillan wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 3:44 PM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:
>> Hotel asked me when, I told them Feb 28, waiting to hear a confirmation.
> 
> Hi Carl.
> Any confirmation?  Thursday is creeping up.  I am still up for it if
> they let us into the room.  Feihong, are you still presenting too?
> Even if it's just the 3 of us it will still be awesome because A) my
> talk was inspired by Carl [1] and I want him to see it over and over
> again; B) Carl needs a full practice run using the hotel's A / V
> system; and C) I need a practice run myself.  But anyone is welcome to
> attend :)
> 
> FYI to all, the hotel parking lot is $18.  I believe the Rosemont lot
> is $6 and perhaps other people have better parking ideas.  I might
> just drive from Uptown (where I live) straight to the Blue Line and
> park somewhere by the closest station.
> 
> [1] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/2007-November/002890.html
> 
> 
>>  The rooms aren't used much in the evening, so I don't see why it won't happen.
>>
>>  I'll post to the list as soon as I get a confirmation.
>>
>>  Carl K
>>
>>
>>
>>  Feihong Hsu wrote:
>>  > So, it's next Thursday (Feb 28), from 7 am to 7:30 pm, at the Crowne
>>  > Plaza in Rosemont?
>>  >
>>  > I should be able to make it. Haven't decided if I want to do my .NET
>>  > talk or part of our tutorial...
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > --- Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:
>>  >
>>  >> Kumar McMillan wrote:
>>  >>> On Feb 20, 2008 9:35 AM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com>
>>  >> wrote:
>>  >>>> So, who wants to give their presentation, and when?
>>  >>>>
>>  >>>> Thursday seems like a good choice.  We can start earlier (6?),
>>  >> especially if we
>>  >>>> get more than 2 speakers.  If we get 10, we can start at 8am and
>>  >> go all day.
>>  >>>> Not sure how many people will show up, but camera will be
>>  >> rolling, so come on down!
>>  >>> I'm in.
>>  >>>
>>  >>> Unicode in Python, Completely Demystified
>>  >>> Carl, unless we get crowded with talks, can we do a 7pm start?  I
>>  >> have
>>  >>> to travel from Evanston after work but I am flexible if that is
>>  >> too
>>  >>> late.  Any Thursday should work for me.  Next Thursday would be
>>  >>> optimal but I can do tomorrow I suppose.
>>  >> I was thinking next Thurs, Feb 28.  sometimes I forget to type what
>>  >> I think...
>>  >>
>>  >> 7 - 7:30.  we can let Q/A go on forever, but it's good to practice
>>  >> getting your
>>  >> talk done on time.
>>  >>
>>  >> Carl K
>>  >> _______________________________________________
>>  >> Chicago mailing list
>>  >> Chicago at python.org
>>  >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>  >>
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >       ____________________________________________________________________________________
>>  > Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
>>  > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>>  > _______________________________________________
>>  > Chicago mailing list
>>  > Chicago at python.org
>>  > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>  >
>>  >
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  Chicago mailing list
>>  Chicago at python.org
>>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 


From tprinty at mail.edisonave.net  Wed Feb 27 17:49:20 2008
From: tprinty at mail.edisonave.net (Tom Printy)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 10:49:20 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] PyCon practice day (next week)
In-Reply-To: <47C593FD.90904@personnelware.com>
References: <615422.85730.qm@web34813.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<47BC9F2C.7020403@personnelware.com>
	<b571660a0802262058l4d353e6cl661e60bd70d980df@mail.gmail.com>
	<47C593FD.90904@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <1204130960.15518.4.camel@localhost>

Carl if nobody else will help let me know and I can meet you there. I am
up for free food....

-Tom



On Wed, 2008-02-27 at 10:46 -0600, Carl Karsten wrote:
> Checking. (again)
> 
> been having e-mail troubles, including getting un-subscribed to this list, and 
> not getting anything with a 1 word subject.
> 
> duh.
> 
> Carl K
> 
> Kumar McMillan wrote:
> > On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 3:44 PM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:
> >> Hotel asked me when, I told them Feb 28, waiting to hear a confirmation.
> > 
> > Hi Carl.
> > Any confirmation?  Thursday is creeping up.  I am still up for it if
> > they let us into the room.  Feihong, are you still presenting too?
> > Even if it's just the 3 of us it will still be awesome because A) my
> > talk was inspired by Carl [1] and I want him to see it over and over
> > again; B) Carl needs a full practice run using the hotel's A / V
> > system; and C) I need a practice run myself.  But anyone is welcome to
> > attend :)
> > 
> > FYI to all, the hotel parking lot is $18.  I believe the Rosemont lot
> > is $6 and perhaps other people have better parking ideas.  I might
> > just drive from Uptown (where I live) straight to the Blue Line and
> > park somewhere by the closest station.
> > 
> > [1] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/2007-November/002890.html
> > 
> > 
> >>  The rooms aren't used much in the evening, so I don't see why it won't happen.
> >>
> >>  I'll post to the list as soon as I get a confirmation.
> >>
> >>  Carl K
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>  Feihong Hsu wrote:
> >>  > So, it's next Thursday (Feb 28), from 7 am to 7:30 pm, at the Crowne
> >>  > Plaza in Rosemont?
> >>  >
> >>  > I should be able to make it. Haven't decided if I want to do my .NET
> >>  > talk or part of our tutorial...
> >>  >
> >>  >
> >>  > --- Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:
> >>  >
> >>  >> Kumar McMillan wrote:
> >>  >>> On Feb 20, 2008 9:35 AM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com>
> >>  >> wrote:
> >>  >>>> So, who wants to give their presentation, and when?
> >>  >>>>
> >>  >>>> Thursday seems like a good choice.  We can start earlier (6?),
> >>  >> especially if we
> >>  >>>> get more than 2 speakers.  If we get 10, we can start at 8am and
> >>  >> go all day.
> >>  >>>> Not sure how many people will show up, but camera will be
> >>  >> rolling, so come on down!
> >>  >>> I'm in.
> >>  >>>
> >>  >>> Unicode in Python, Completely Demystified
> >>  >>> Carl, unless we get crowded with talks, can we do a 7pm start?  I
> >>  >> have
> >>  >>> to travel from Evanston after work but I am flexible if that is
> >>  >> too
> >>  >>> late.  Any Thursday should work for me.  Next Thursday would be
> >>  >>> optimal but I can do tomorrow I suppose.
> >>  >> I was thinking next Thurs, Feb 28.  sometimes I forget to type what
> >>  >> I think...
> >>  >>
> >>  >> 7 - 7:30.  we can let Q/A go on forever, but it's good to practice
> >>  >> getting your
> >>  >> talk done on time.
> >>  >>
> >>  >> Carl K
> >>  >> _______________________________________________
> >>  >> Chicago mailing list
> >>  >> Chicago at python.org
> >>  >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >>  >>
> >>  >
> >>  >
> >>  >
> >>  >       ____________________________________________________________________________________
> >>  > Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
> >>  > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
> >>  > _______________________________________________
> >>  > Chicago mailing list
> >>  > Chicago at python.org
> >>  > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >>  >
> >>  >
> >>  _______________________________________________
> >>  Chicago mailing list
> >>  Chicago at python.org
> >>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From carl at personnelware.com  Wed Feb 27 17:53:34 2008
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 10:53:34 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] PyCon practice day (next week)
In-Reply-To: <47C593FD.90904@personnelware.com>
References: <615422.85730.qm@web34813.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<47BC9F2C.7020403@personnelware.com>
	<b571660a0802262058l4d353e6cl661e60bd70d980df@mail.gmail.com>
	<47C593FD.90904@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <47C5958E.6000209@personnelware.com>

Just noticed the 7am - hope no one shows up then :)

to be clear - the current plan is to be just like a normal ChiPy meeting: 7pm 
till we are done,  bring your friends and loved ones.  I'll be there much 
earlier to get AV stuff setup.

Assuming I get the OK from Crown.

Carl K

Carl Karsten wrote:
> Checking. (again)
> 
> been having e-mail troubles, including getting un-subscribed to this list, and 
> not getting anything with a 1 word subject.
> 
> duh.
> 
> Carl K
> 
> Kumar McMillan wrote:
>> On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 3:44 PM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:
>>> Hotel asked me when, I told them Feb 28, waiting to hear a confirmation.
>> Hi Carl.
>> Any confirmation?  Thursday is creeping up.  I am still up for it if
>> they let us into the room.  Feihong, are you still presenting too?
>> Even if it's just the 3 of us it will still be awesome because A) my
>> talk was inspired by Carl [1] and I want him to see it over and over
>> again; B) Carl needs a full practice run using the hotel's A / V
>> system; and C) I need a practice run myself.  But anyone is welcome to
>> attend :)
>>
>> FYI to all, the hotel parking lot is $18.  I believe the Rosemont lot
>> is $6 and perhaps other people have better parking ideas.  I might
>> just drive from Uptown (where I live) straight to the Blue Line and
>> park somewhere by the closest station.
>>
>> [1] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/2007-November/002890.html
>>
>>
>>>  The rooms aren't used much in the evening, so I don't see why it won't happen.
>>>
>>>  I'll post to the list as soon as I get a confirmation.
>>>
>>>  Carl K
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Feihong Hsu wrote:
>>>  > So, it's next Thursday (Feb 28), from 7 am to 7:30 pm, at the Crowne
>>>  > Plaza in Rosemont?
>>>  >
>>>  > I should be able to make it. Haven't decided if I want to do my .NET
>>>  > talk or part of our tutorial...
>>>  >
>>>  >
>>>  > --- Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:
>>>  >
>>>  >> Kumar McMillan wrote:
>>>  >>> On Feb 20, 2008 9:35 AM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com>
>>>  >> wrote:
>>>  >>>> So, who wants to give their presentation, and when?
>>>  >>>>
>>>  >>>> Thursday seems like a good choice.  We can start earlier (6?),
>>>  >> especially if we
>>>  >>>> get more than 2 speakers.  If we get 10, we can start at 8am and
>>>  >> go all day.
>>>  >>>> Not sure how many people will show up, but camera will be
>>>  >> rolling, so come on down!
>>>  >>> I'm in.
>>>  >>>
>>>  >>> Unicode in Python, Completely Demystified
>>>  >>> Carl, unless we get crowded with talks, can we do a 7pm start?  I
>>>  >> have
>>>  >>> to travel from Evanston after work but I am flexible if that is
>>>  >> too
>>>  >>> late.  Any Thursday should work for me.  Next Thursday would be
>>>  >>> optimal but I can do tomorrow I suppose.
>>>  >> I was thinking next Thurs, Feb 28.  sometimes I forget to type what
>>>  >> I think...
>>>  >>
>>>  >> 7 - 7:30.  we can let Q/A go on forever, but it's good to practice
>>>  >> getting your
>>>  >> talk done on time.
>>>  >>
>>>  >> Carl K
>>>  >> _______________________________________________
>>>  >> Chicago mailing list
>>>  >> Chicago at python.org
>>>  >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>  >>
>>>  >
>>>  >
>>>  >
>>>  >       ____________________________________________________________________________________
>>>  > Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
>>>  > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>>>  > _______________________________________________
>>>  > Chicago mailing list
>>>  > Chicago at python.org
>>>  > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>  >
>>>  >
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>  Chicago mailing list
>>>  Chicago at python.org
>>>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 


From ken at stox.org  Wed Feb 27 17:57:06 2008
From: ken at stox.org (Kenneth P. Stox)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 10:57:06 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] MPI in Python?
In-Reply-To: <0DF17B0E-9A62-4F69-B696-28107BF1BB0D@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <18373.29761.683703.653997@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
	<0DF17B0E-9A62-4F69-B696-28107BF1BB0D@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <1204131426.966.88.camel@stox.dyndns.org>


On Wed, 2008-02-27 at 10:16 -0600, Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
> If you need parallelization ,you care about speed. If you care about  
> speed use C/C++.

Not necessarily true. It all depends on the workload. 

> In C/C++ there are many libraries based on MPI that allow programming  
> at higher level (for example http://www.fermiqcd.net, despite the  
> pitch for physics it is actually very general for mesh based  
> algorithms).

A lot of the fermiqcd code is to produce a backwards compatible
interface for the older ACP/MAPS code. I'm not sure it would be the
right choice, but once again, it is highly dependent upon the workload. 

> 
> You use threads on shared memory machines (like a SG), you use MPI on  
> distributed memory machines (like a cluster). There is really no choice.

I assume you meant to say SGI, as in Origin and Altix. There are times
one can, and will, use MPI on a shared memory machine, if one also wants
to be able to scale beyond the one machine. 


From pfein at pobox.com  Wed Feb 27 18:02:00 2008
From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 12:02:00 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] MPI in Python?
In-Reply-To: <18373.29761.683703.653997@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
References: <18373.29761.683703.653997@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
Message-ID: <200802271202.00848.pfein@pobox.com>

On Wednesday February 27 2008 9:31:29 am skip at pobox.com wrote:
> Is anyone using MPI within Python to harness the compute power of multiple
> CPU machines?  I see two MPI packages available for Python:

As long as we're suggesting alternatives, there's Ipython1: 
http://ipython.scipy.org/moin/Parallel_Computing

Chris gave a presentation on that a few months ago, IIRC.

-- 
Peter Fein   ||   773-575-0694   ||   pfein at pobox.com
http://www.pobox.com/~pfein/   ||   PGP: 0xCCF6AE6B
irc: pfein at freenode.net   ||   jabber: peter.fein at gmail.com

From jason at hostedlabs.com  Wed Feb 27 18:18:10 2008
From: jason at hostedlabs.com (Jason Rexilius)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 11:18:10 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] MPI in Python?
In-Reply-To: <1204131426.966.88.camel@stox.dyndns.org>
References: <18373.29761.683703.653997@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>	<0DF17B0E-9A62-4F69-B696-28107BF1BB0D@cs.depaul.edu>
	<1204131426.966.88.camel@stox.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <47C59B52.1050306@hostedlabs.com>



Kenneth P. Stox wrote:
> On Wed, 2008-02-27 at 10:16 -0600, Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
>> If you need parallelization ,you care about speed. If you care about  
>> speed use C/C++.
> 
> Not necessarily true. It all depends on the workload. 


I would expand on this and say that environment has an impact on design 
decisions.  You may not have a lot of C/C++ developers handy but have 
lots and lots of x86 machines lying around.


>> In C/C++ there are many libraries based on MPI that allow programming  
>> at higher level (for example http://www.fermiqcd.net, despite the  
>> pitch for physics it is actually very general for mesh based  
>> algorithms).
> 
> A lot of the fermiqcd code is to produce a backwards compatible
> interface for the older ACP/MAPS code. I'm not sure it would be the
> right choice, but once again, it is highly dependent upon the workload. 


A few older models out there may be helpful as well, such as Mosix 
process distribution clustering, or Spread for inter-process-cluster 
messaging. Erlang basically is a language and run-time that encapsulates 
models like the above natively.

There are Python APIs for Spread.. And Zope uses it somewhere it seems..


>> You use threads on shared memory machines (like a SG), you use MPI on  
>> distributed memory machines (like a cluster). There is really no choice.
> 
> I assume you meant to say SGI, as in Origin and Altix. There are times
> one can, and will, use MPI on a shared memory machine, if one also wants
> to be able to scale beyond the one machine. 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From mtobis at gmail.com  Wed Feb 27 18:26:20 2008
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 11:26:20 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] MPI in Python?
In-Reply-To: <0DF17B0E-9A62-4F69-B696-28107BF1BB0D@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <18373.29761.683703.653997@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
	<0DF17B0E-9A62-4F69-B696-28107BF1BB0D@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <c3aa55550802270926w2ae528c7qcfccd24802b9371f@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 10:16 AM, Massimo Di Pierro
<mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
> If you need parallelization ,you care about speed. If you care about
>  speed use C/C++.

Some of the reasons for a mixed programming model including Python are
listed here:

http://ipython.scipy.org/moin/Parallel_Computing

At the University of Chicago we (mostly Mike Steder, now unfortunately
gainfully employed :-/) had a project that linked fortran90 and python
in a shared MPI communicator-world. This presented a lot of hurdles,
but I remain convinced it is a worthwhile approach. If only the legacy
code were in a sane language it would have been a slam dunk in favor
of Python+MPI.

mt

From steder at gmail.com  Wed Feb 27 18:27:31 2008
From: steder at gmail.com (Mike Steder)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 11:27:31 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] MPI in Python?
In-Reply-To: <c3aa55550802270814l56cd2906y29c444d5b0f507cb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <18373.29761.683703.653997@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
	<c3aa55550802270814l56cd2906y29c444d5b0f507cb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <63c66d1e0802270927k6acef5c3i2908a1d4aaaed3dc@mail.gmail.com>

 <chicago at python.org>

> Is anyone using MPI within Python to harness the compute power of multiple
>  CPU machines?  I see two MPI packages available for Python:
>
>    http://mpi4py.scipy.org/
>    http://sourceforge.net/projects/pympi/
>

PyMPI is an older but not really maintained project.  PyMPI is implemented
as a different interpreter.  PyMPI does not support the parallel IO
operations that MPI4py does. However, PyMPI has been used in "production"
code at Lawrence Livermore National Labs and so it is definitely a heavily
used and abused implementation with reasonably good performance
characteristics.  However, given that it is definitely more out of date now
it probably is not the best choice for someone looking to pick up MPI and
Python now.  MPI4py is a more up-to-date implementation that is heavily
influenced by the MPI-2 standard and the C++ bindings for that standard.
MPI4py is also just a simple module that is imported.

Initialization of the MPI environment happens when the interpreter is
started in PyMPI which can be a problem for programs that involve multiple
MPI processes collaborating on a single problem.  MPI4py I assume
initializes the MPI environment when the module is imported as I've seen
that as a common idiom.

As I'm not a terribly big fan of implementing a whole bunch of logic in C I
actually have YAMPII at http://code.google.com/p/maroonmpi/ that attempts to
minimize the amount of C code necessary to write a useful MPI program in
Python.  It consists of a simple C module like MPI4py but has explicit
initialization and finalization calls.  It's still a very simple
implementation of just the core MPI-1 functionality (along with the MPE
library for logging and visualization support).  Personally, I would go for
either MPI4py, or if you are interested in extending and modifying the core
of the functionality, I would recommend my MaroonMPI implementation as it is
simpler, written entirely in ANSI C and Python, and quite straightforward.
Additionally, I've tested MaroonMPI on various beowulf clusters at the
University of Chicago, Argonne National Lab, and the University of Texas (
https://portal.tacc.utexas.edu).

It has been at least 6 months since I last used either PyMPI or MPI4py so I
apologize if I've misrepresented either of those projects here.  I think
both are solid implementations, but for my purposes they were inadequate.
Specifically, I was interfacing 4 parallel climate models written in 3
programming languages.  Kind of an arcane scenario :-D


>
>  Any idea which of these is "better" for some vague definition of the
> word?
>  Is MPI too low-level?  Is there something higher-level on top of it?
>  I've
>  been playing around with Richard Oudkerk's processing package (see entry
> in
>  PyPI: http://pypi.python.org/pypi/processing).  That provides an
> interface
>  very much like Python's threading package, which makes it pretty easy to
>  use.  It's not based on MPI though.  A marriage of the two might be nice.
>

So in terms of better, I'd lean heavily towards MPI4py or a simpler module
like MaroonMPI.

The beauty of something like threading is that we can dynamically create and
delete threads.  MPI-1 uses a static process model so you have to determine
the number of processes when you start the process.

For example:

A simple MaroonMPI program:

# hello-mpi.py
import mmpi
rank,size = mmpi.init()
print "Hello World from Process %s of %s" %(rank,size)
mmpi.finalize()

Is run by typing:

$ mpirun -n 2 /path/to/python /path/to/hello-mpi.py

And the result should be something like:

Hello World from Process 0 of 2
Hello World from Process 1 of 2

Anyway, the static process space is no longer an issue in the MPI-2 spec,
but it is still something that would have to be managed and I don't believe
there are any Python+MPI implementations that bother to do that.  Maybe the
IPython1 implementation will handle this kind of thing.

MPI is definitely a low level parallel library but it's also a standard in
many scientific communities.  However, depending on the work you need to do
I imagine that the parallelization provided by the pypi Processing package
is perfectly reasonable.  Perhaps with more knowledge of the particular
problem you're tackling we could look at creating a benchmark suite and
compare Processing to an MPI implementation.


>  Any thoughts?
>

I realize that's a long rambling reply to a simple question but I hope it's
helpful.

~Mike
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From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Wed Feb 27 18:27:43 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 11:27:43 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] MPI in Python?
In-Reply-To: <1204131426.966.88.camel@stox.dyndns.org>
References: <18373.29761.683703.653997@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
	<0DF17B0E-9A62-4F69-B696-28107BF1BB0D@cs.depaul.edu>
	<1204131426.966.88.camel@stox.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <62044BD6-FA06-4B59-A71E-A20F41A0BCE5@cs.depaul.edu>

> A lot of the fermiqcd code is to produce a backwards compatible
> interface for the older ACP/MAPS code. I'm not sure it would be the
> right choice, but once again, it is highly dependent upon the  
> workload.

Ah Ah! Not at all. I wrote it so I know.

Fermiqcd defines the following classes:

- A lattice (a set of vertices connected by any topology that is  
embeddable in a 10 dimensional space, usually a mesh, and the  
veritices are automatically distributed in a parallel environment,  
could be just an array or a multi-dimensional array)

- A field (the data structure that lives on the vertices of the  
lattice, for example a temperature at every point in space).

If you write your algorithm serially using the above data structures  
(with some care), it is automatically parallel. Parallelization is  
implementing by finding optimal communication patterns that minimize  
latency dependence and are implemented in MPI. It also includes a  
linear algebra package for complex numbers.

It runs at Fermilab on the cluster and has been tested in UK on blue  
gene.

Fermiqcd is not backward compatible with the Canopy code (the one for  
ACP/MAPS) and was developed independently (when I was in UK, in order  
to run on a Cray T3E).

It is true that most of the old Canopy algorithms have been rewritten  
in Fermiqcd (not in a backward compatible way) and that is why it is  
most popular in that area of Physics (Lattice QCD). Some people use  
if for gravity simulations and other people for condensed matter  
simulations. I am looking at using it for financial simulations as  
well. It even has a clone (Latfield) which actually offers a small  
subset of the Fermiqcd functionalities.

Just for fun, here are some images produced by Fermiqcd simulations:

http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/vqcd

Massimo


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Feb 27 18:32:01 2008
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 11:32:01 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] MPI in Python?
In-Reply-To: <3db160680802270714x6490fc0apcc40379bf1564899@mail.gmail.com>
References: <18373.29761.683703.653997@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
	<3db160680802270714x6490fc0apcc40379bf1564899@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <18373.40593.827044.691620@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>


    Dan> What are you attempting to do with MPI? I write threaded C at work
    Dan> and its no big chore to use a few globals and locks to get things
    Dan> done.

Oh, sure, but I'm interested in using the 50 or 60 cpu cores I have
available when doing compute-intensive work, just what MPI should be good
for.  I like the threading API (or I should say I'm comfortable with it), so
extending it to a multiprocessing API would make for a small semantic leap
in my feeble brain.  If that sort of thing can be built on top of MPI, so
much the better.

Skip

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Wed Feb 27 18:43:52 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 11:43:52 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] MPI in Python?
In-Reply-To: <18373.40593.827044.691620@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
References: <18373.29761.683703.653997@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
	<3db160680802270714x6490fc0apcc40379bf1564899@mail.gmail.com>
	<18373.40593.827044.691620@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
Message-ID: <433D531E-EF36-4C1A-98FC-61C8659E83CB@cs.depaul.edu>

Is the CPU don't share the same RAM threading is not an option unless  
you use OpenMP, which emulates shared memory but it is very slow  
compared with MPI. Nobody uses it anymore.

Massimo


On Feb 27, 2008, at 11:32 AM, skip at pobox.com wrote:

>
>     Dan> What are you attempting to do with MPI? I write threaded C  
> at work
>     Dan> and its no big chore to use a few globals and locks to get  
> things
>     Dan> done.
>
> Oh, sure, but I'm interested in using the 50 or 60 cpu cores I have
> available when doing compute-intensive work, just what MPI should  
> be good
> for.  I like the threading API (or I should say I'm comfortable  
> with it), so
> extending it to a multiprocessing API would make for a small  
> semantic leap
> in my feeble brain.  If that sort of thing can be built on top of  
> MPI, so
> much the better.
>
> Skip
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Wed Feb 27 18:48:23 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 11:48:23 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] MPI in Python?
In-Reply-To: <18373.40593.827044.691620@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
References: <18373.29761.683703.653997@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
	<3db160680802270714x6490fc0apcc40379bf1564899@mail.gmail.com>
	<18373.40593.827044.691620@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
Message-ID: <1F4C9C85-D3A7-4646-8916-FD4096FEC8FE@cs.depaul.edu>

In fecmiqcd you can define:

int L[3]={100,100,100}
mdp_lattice cube(3,L);
mdp_field<float> psi(cube)
mdp_site x(cube);

and then

forallsites(x) psi(x)=1.0/6.0*(psi(x-0)+psi(x+0)+psi(x-1)+psi(x+1)+psi 
(x-2)+psi(x+2));

The latter line solves the Laplace equation in 3D in parallel. MPI is  
taken care of for you.

Massimo



On Feb 27, 2008, at 11:32 AM, skip at pobox.com wrote:

>
>     Dan> What are you attempting to do with MPI? I write threaded C  
> at work
>     Dan> and its no big chore to use a few globals and locks to get  
> things
>     Dan> done.
>
> Oh, sure, but I'm interested in using the 50 or 60 cpu cores I have
> available when doing compute-intensive work, just what MPI should  
> be good
> for.  I like the threading API (or I should say I'm comfortable  
> with it), so
> extending it to a multiprocessing API would make for a small  
> semantic leap
> in my feeble brain.  If that sort of thing can be built on top of  
> MPI, so
> much the better.
>
> Skip
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Feb 27 19:06:10 2008
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 12:06:10 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] MPI in Python?
In-Reply-To: <0DF17B0E-9A62-4F69-B696-28107BF1BB0D@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <18373.29761.683703.653997@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
	<0DF17B0E-9A62-4F69-B696-28107BF1BB0D@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <18373.42642.557730.374357@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>


    Massimo> If you need parallelization ,you care about speed. If you care
    Massimo> about speed use C/C++.

We do already, only indirectly via packages like numpy.

    Massimo> You use threads on shared memory machines (like a SG), you use
    Massimo> MPI on distributed memory machines (like a cluster). There is
    Massimo> really no choice.

I effectively have both.  Threads gain nothing from within Python because of
the interpreter lock.  I don't need to worry too much about buying more
hardware, but I do want to use it somewhat efficiently.  If I have a
computer with 16 cores I need to use multiple processes to make reasonably
effective use of it from Python.

Skip

From skip at pobox.com  Wed Feb 27 19:08:52 2008
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 12:08:52 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] MPI in Python?
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0802270721x1deca88ej251e58407a31ca9d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <18373.29761.683703.653997@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
	<3096c19d0802270721x1deca88ej251e58407a31ca9d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <18373.42804.612876.261783@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>


    Chris> I have been playing around with IPython1, the poorly named
    Chris> very-easy-to-use clustering thing:
    Chris> http://ipython.scipy.org/moin/IPython1

Our computing is batch, not interactive.  Wouldn't IPython1 restrict us to
interactive use?

Skip

From skip at pobox.com  Wed Feb 27 19:15:19 2008
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 12:15:19 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] MPI in Python?
In-Reply-To: <433D531E-EF36-4C1A-98FC-61C8659E83CB@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <18373.29761.683703.653997@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
	<3db160680802270714x6490fc0apcc40379bf1564899@mail.gmail.com>
	<18373.40593.827044.691620@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
	<433D531E-EF36-4C1A-98FC-61C8659E83CB@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <18373.43191.502567.812113@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>


    Massimo> Is the CPU don't share the same RAM threading is not an option
    Massimo> unless you use OpenMP, which emulates shared memory but it is
    Massimo> very slow compared with MPI. Nobody uses it anymore.

So MPI means "Message Passing Interface" where the messages must be passed
via shared memory?  *sigh* If so, I'll look elsewhere for solutions.

Skip

From ken at stox.org  Wed Feb 27 19:21:36 2008
From: ken at stox.org (Kenneth P. Stox)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 12:21:36 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] MPI in Python?
In-Reply-To: <18373.43191.502567.812113@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
References: <18373.29761.683703.653997@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
	<3db160680802270714x6490fc0apcc40379bf1564899@mail.gmail.com>
	<18373.40593.827044.691620@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
	<433D531E-EF36-4C1A-98FC-61C8659E83CB@cs.depaul.edu>
	<18373.43191.502567.812113@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
Message-ID: <1204136496.966.115.camel@stox.dyndns.org>


On Wed, 2008-02-27 at 12:15 -0600, skip at pobox.com wrote:
> Massimo> Is the CPU don't share the same RAM threading is not an option
>     Massimo> unless you use OpenMP, which emulates shared memory but it is
>     Massimo> very slow compared with MPI. Nobody uses it anymore.
> 
> So MPI means "Message Passing Interface" where the messages must be passed
> via shared memory?  *sigh* If so, I'll look elsewhere for solutions.

Via sockets. It was originally designed for use over a farm of machines
using the network. 


From pfein at pobox.com  Wed Feb 27 19:30:18 2008
From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 13:30:18 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] MPI in Python?
In-Reply-To: <18373.42804.612876.261783@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
References: <18373.29761.683703.653997@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
	<3096c19d0802270721x1deca88ej251e58407a31ca9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<18373.42804.612876.261783@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
Message-ID: <200802271330.18862.pfein@pobox.com>

On Wednesday February 27 2008 1:08:52 pm skip at pobox.com wrote:
>     Chris> I have been playing around with IPython1, the poorly named
>     Chris> very-easy-to-use clustering thing:
>     Chris> http://ipython.scipy.org/moin/IPython1
>
> Our computing is batch, not interactive.  Wouldn't IPython1 restrict us to
> interactive use?

Nope.

See the talks from last year's Pycon, they were fantastic: 
http://ipython.scipy.org/moin/About/Presentations

We had a big distributed computing BoF last year.

-- 
Peter Fein   ||   773-575-0694   ||   pfein at pobox.com
http://www.pobox.com/~pfein/   ||   PGP: 0xCCF6AE6B
irc: pfein at freenode.net   ||   jabber: peter.fein at gmail.com

From steder at gmail.com  Wed Feb 27 20:46:53 2008
From: steder at gmail.com (Mike Steder)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 13:46:53 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] MPI in Python?
In-Reply-To: <18373.43191.502567.812113@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
References: <18373.29761.683703.653997@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
	<3db160680802270714x6490fc0apcc40379bf1564899@mail.gmail.com>
	<18373.40593.827044.691620@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
	<433D531E-EF36-4C1A-98FC-61C8659E83CB@cs.depaul.edu>
	<18373.43191.502567.812113@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
Message-ID: <63c66d1e0802271146i6d61e490tb6fe22f8be948837@mail.gmail.com>

MPI means "Message Passing Interface" where you shouldn't have to worry
about the protocol used.  MPI will transparently use shared memory,
pthreads, some other ipc mechanism, or sockets based on the configuration
when you built the MPI library and/or what is the best supported mechanism
on your operating system.

~Mike

On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 12:15 PM, <skip at pobox.com> wrote:

>
>    Massimo> Is the CPU don't share the same RAM threading is not an option
>    Massimo> unless you use OpenMP, which emulates shared memory but it is
>    Massimo> very slow compared with MPI. Nobody uses it anymore.
>
> So MPI means "Message Passing Interface" where the messages must be passed
> via shared memory?  *sigh* If so, I'll look elsewhere for solutions.
>
> Skip
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From skip at pobox.com  Wed Feb 27 21:15:23 2008
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:15:23 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] MPI in Python?
In-Reply-To: <63c66d1e0802271146i6d61e490tb6fe22f8be948837@mail.gmail.com>
References: <18373.29761.683703.653997@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
	<3db160680802270714x6490fc0apcc40379bf1564899@mail.gmail.com>
	<18373.40593.827044.691620@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
	<433D531E-EF36-4C1A-98FC-61C8659E83CB@cs.depaul.edu>
	<18373.43191.502567.812113@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
	<63c66d1e0802271146i6d61e490tb6fe22f8be948837@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <18373.50395.516433.934897@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>


    Massimo> Is the CPU don't share the same RAM threading is not an option
    Massimo> unless you use OpenMP, which emulates shared memory but it is
    Massimo> very slow compared with MPI. Nobody uses it anymore.

    Skip> So MPI means "Message Passing Interface" where the messages must
    Skip> be passed via shared memory?  *sigh* If so, I'll look elsewhere
    Skip> for solutions.

    Mike> MPI means "Message Passing Interface" where you shouldn't have to
    Mike> worry about the protocol used.  MPI will transparently use shared
    Mike> memory, pthreads, some other ipc mechanism, or sockets based on
    Mike> the configuration when you built the MPI library and/or what is
    Mike> the best supported mechanism on your operating system.

So I obviously misunderstood what Massimo wrote.  What did he mean?  I
interpreted his statement as meaning you can't use MPI without a shared
memory architecture unless you are using OpenMP which nobody uses anymore.

Skip


From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Wed Feb 27 21:26:24 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:26:24 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] MPI in Python?
In-Reply-To: <18373.50395.516433.934897@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
References: <18373.29761.683703.653997@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
	<3db160680802270714x6490fc0apcc40379bf1564899@mail.gmail.com>
	<18373.40593.827044.691620@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
	<433D531E-EF36-4C1A-98FC-61C8659E83CB@cs.depaul.edu>
	<18373.43191.502567.812113@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
	<63c66d1e0802271146i6d61e490tb6fe22f8be948837@mail.gmail.com>
	<18373.50395.516433.934897@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
Message-ID: <EC606B18-115C-4F82-B880-FF5E7CB36C3B@cs.depaul.edu>

Sorry, sometimes I type fast and I do not understand myself.

MPI is a Message Passing Protocol (you send a string form one CPU and  
you receive the string on another CPU). depending on the MPI  
implementation (MPICH, LamMPI, MPI-Myranet, etc.) it may or many not  
take advantage of your architecture/network. If some CPUs share RAM  
memory MPI should take advantage of it but it doesn't.

1) case (1xCPU+RAM) x n -> You use MPI

2) case (m x CPU + RAM)  x n -> You still use MPI but lose efficiency  
if m>n

3) case (m x CPU + RAM) x 1 -> you use threads, there is no need for  
message passing

(n is the number of nodes, m is the number of CPUs per node)

In case 1) and 2) you can treat the n nodes as a shared memory  
machine by using a program called OpenMP. I do not suggest it.

Massimo


On Feb 27, 2008, at 2:15 PM, skip at pobox.com wrote:

>
>     Massimo> Is the CPU don't share the same RAM threading is not  
> an option
>     Massimo> unless you use OpenMP, which emulates shared memory  
> but it is
>     Massimo> very slow compared with MPI. Nobody uses it anymore.
>
>     Skip> So MPI means "Message Passing Interface" where the  
> messages must
>     Skip> be passed via shared memory?  *sigh* If so, I'll look  
> elsewhere
>     Skip> for solutions.
>
>     Mike> MPI means "Message Passing Interface" where you shouldn't  
> have to
>     Mike> worry about the protocol used.  MPI will transparently  
> use shared
>     Mike> memory, pthreads, some other ipc mechanism, or sockets  
> based on
>     Mike> the configuration when you built the MPI library and/or  
> what is
>     Mike> the best supported mechanism on your operating system.
>
> So I obviously misunderstood what Massimo wrote.  What did he mean?  I
> interpreted his statement as meaning you can't use MPI without a  
> shared
> memory architecture unless you are using OpenMP which nobody uses  
> anymore.
>
> Skip
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From mtobis at gmail.com  Wed Feb 27 21:38:06 2008
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:38:06 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] MPI in Python?
In-Reply-To: <18373.50395.516433.934897@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
References: <18373.29761.683703.653997@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
	<3db160680802270714x6490fc0apcc40379bf1564899@mail.gmail.com>
	<18373.40593.827044.691620@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
	<433D531E-EF36-4C1A-98FC-61C8659E83CB@cs.depaul.edu>
	<18373.43191.502567.812113@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
	<63c66d1e0802271146i6d61e490tb6fe22f8be948837@mail.gmail.com>
	<18373.50395.516433.934897@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
Message-ID: <c3aa55550802271238x433a6764lcbef1be61885ddaa@mail.gmail.com>

In high-performance scientific computing MPI is the standard solution
for distributed memory systems.

I had understood OpenMP to be a solution for shared memory parallelism
of certain sorts.  Look at it carefully to see if your programming
model matches it; my guess is that for most on this list it won't even
do that.

If there is a **distributed memory** version of OpenMP, it would seem
to be more of a toy than a real solution. Maybe it's useful for
porting existing OpenMP work to distributed memory?

That's consistent with what Massimo said. Massimo said nothing about
not using MPI.  Your summary seems wrong.

I think you want to build a threadlike environment on top of MPI on
top of ethernet or high performance switches. That seems plausible and
useful. You could even build duck-typed threadlike objects.

As Mike S said, you can also build MPI on top of threads. That's a
different prospect. (If you succeed in your mission you could build
threads on top of MPI and implement MPI with threads as a stunt or a
test.)

mt

On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 2:15 PM,  <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
>
>     Massimo> Is the CPU don't share the same RAM threading is not an option
>     Massimo> unless you use OpenMP, which emulates shared memory but it is
>     Massimo> very slow compared with MPI. Nobody uses it anymore.
>
>     Skip> So MPI means "Message Passing Interface" where the messages must
>     Skip> be passed via shared memory?  *sigh* If so, I'll look elsewhere
>     Skip> for solutions.
>
>     Mike> MPI means "Message Passing Interface" where you shouldn't have to
>     Mike> worry about the protocol used.  MPI will transparently use shared
>     Mike> memory, pthreads, some other ipc mechanism, or sockets based on
>     Mike> the configuration when you built the MPI library and/or what is
>     Mike> the best supported mechanism on your operating system.
>
>  So I obviously misunderstood what Massimo wrote.  What did he mean?  I
>  interpreted his statement as meaning you can't use MPI without a shared
>  memory architecture unless you are using OpenMP which nobody uses anymore.
>
>
>
>  Skip
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Chicago mailing list
>  Chicago at python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From garrett at mojave-corp.com  Wed Feb 27 21:56:13 2008
From: garrett at mojave-corp.com (Garrett Smith)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:56:13 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Chicago] Gently off topic: independent contractors andcontracts
In-Reply-To: <D925FEBB-8F80-46DC-A733-A5ACC03FCE80@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <00ab01c87985$e2403890$0701a8c0@mojave.local>

Cool stuff! Can you expand the indexing to include the body of a post, in
addition to the title?

Also curious, are you using a library for the search/indexing or did you
roll your own?

On Tuesday, February 26, 2008 3:21 PM, chicago-bounces at python.org wrote:

> Here you go. Start posting!
> 
> https://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/LegalTemplates
> 
> On Feb 26, 2008, at 3:15 PM, Milan Andric wrote:
> 
>> Also known as legal templates.
>> 
>> On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 1:39 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
>> <mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
>>> Not if they are completely anonimized (no reference to the parties 
>>> involved). 
>>> 
>>>  Massimo
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  On Feb 26, 2008, at 12:36 PM, Garrett Smith wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Interesting idea. Ironically, there might be some legal issues in
>>>> creating a site that stores confidential information like pending
>>>> contracts, etc. Hmmm.
>>>> 
>>>> On , chicago-bounces+garrett=mojave-corp.com at python.org wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> What about building  web site where people can post and download
>>>>> existing contracts (anonimized, categorized, and commented) to
>>>>> find out what they need. I can create the web site tomorrow if
>>>>> people have something to post.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Massimo
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 25, 2008, at 1:34 PM, Garrett Smith wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> I have this friend. He's smart (so you know I'm not really
>>>>>> talking about myself) and a lawyer. In the past he's helped me
>>>>>> sort out some issues with sundry contract issues related to
>>>>>> software development. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Question to any independent software developers on the list: Do
>>>>>> you ever find yourself wanting a legal review of a software
>>>>>> contract to make sure you're not missing anything important?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If you're anything like me, you're a cheap bastard (okay, "cost
>>>>>> conscious") and don't want to engage a full fledged firm because
>>>>>> you suspect they'll over charge you for what should be a simple
>>>>>> and reasonably priced service. All you really need is perhaps a
>>>>>> $200-$300 review by a competent tech attorney to make sure you've
>>>>>> got your bases covered in the agreement.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Anyone been in that position before? Thoughts on a simple,
>>>>>> fixed- fee price for such services? 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Garrett
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>> 
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>  Chicago mailing list
>>>  Chicago at python.org
>>>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Milan
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From carl at personnelware.com  Wed Feb 27 22:12:04 2008
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 15:12:04 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] PyCon practice Confirmed: Thurs 28 7pm
In-Reply-To: <47BC48CD.9@personnelware.com>
References: <47BC48CD.9@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <47C5D224.3020509@personnelware.com>

We are good to go.

Where: http://us.pycon.org - If you can't figure it out, file a bug report
When: Thurs Feb 28 7pm
Who: anyone who wants to show up, asking questions is encouraged.
What: get a taste of PyCon:

Kumar - Unicode in Python, Completely Demystified
Feihong - 103 B "Using .NET Libraries in CPython" or part of our tutorial.

Anyone else?  (I know someone at the Feb14 meeting said they were interested. 
hope my email server didn't eat the message.)

Feihong, I suggest doing your session talk, just because the 30 min limit is 
harder to fit, and practicing will help, or something like that.  I am sure you 
are going to run out of time on your tutorial too, but after 2+ hours of high 
bandwidth awesomeness, I think most will be saturated.

Cark K

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Wed Feb 27 22:24:15 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 15:24:15 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Gently off topic: independent contractors andcontracts
In-Reply-To: <00ab01c87985$e2403890$0701a8c0@mojave.local>
References: <00ab01c87985$e2403890$0701a8c0@mojave.local>
Message-ID: <E4F33FEB-1B24-4453-B02D-21D6730709B8@cs.depaul.edu>

I wrote my own. I could expand to include the body but it will need  
some work. Give me a few weeks.

On Feb 27, 2008, at 2:56 PM, Garrett Smith wrote:

> Cool stuff! Can you expand the indexing to include the body of a  
> post, in
> addition to the title?
>
> Also curious, are you using a library for the search/indexing or  
> did you
> roll your own?
>
> On Tuesday, February 26, 2008 3:21 PM, chicago-bounces at python.org  
> wrote:
>
>> Here you go. Start posting!
>>
>> https://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/LegalTemplates
>>
>> On Feb 26, 2008, at 3:15 PM, Milan Andric wrote:
>>
>>> Also known as legal templates.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 1:39 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
>>> <mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
>>>> Not if they are completely anonimized (no reference to the parties
>>>> involved).
>>>>
>>>>  Massimo
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  On Feb 26, 2008, at 12:36 PM, Garrett Smith wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Interesting idea. Ironically, there might be some legal issues in
>>>>> creating a site that stores confidential information like pending
>>>>> contracts, etc. Hmmm.
>>>>>
>>>>> On , chicago-bounces+garrett=mojave-corp.com at python.org wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> What about building  web site where people can post and download
>>>>>> existing contracts (anonimized, categorized, and commented) to
>>>>>> find out what they need. I can create the web site tomorrow if
>>>>>> people have something to post.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Massimo
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 25, 2008, at 1:34 PM, Garrett Smith wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have this friend. He's smart (so you know I'm not really
>>>>>>> talking about myself) and a lawyer. In the past he's helped me
>>>>>>> sort out some issues with sundry contract issues related to
>>>>>>> software development.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Question to any independent software developers on the list: Do
>>>>>>> you ever find yourself wanting a legal review of a software
>>>>>>> contract to make sure you're not missing anything important?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you're anything like me, you're a cheap bastard (okay, "cost
>>>>>>> conscious") and don't want to engage a full fledged firm because
>>>>>>> you suspect they'll over charge you for what should be a simple
>>>>>>> and reasonably priced service. All you really need is perhaps a
>>>>>>> $200-$300 review by a competent tech attorney to make sure  
>>>>>>> you've
>>>>>>> got your bases covered in the agreement.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyone been in that position before? Thoughts on a simple,
>>>>>>> fixed- fee price for such services?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Garrett
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>
>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>  Chicago mailing list
>>>>  Chicago at python.org
>>>>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Milan
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 27 22:57:06 2008
From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 13:57:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Chicago] PyCon practice Confirmed: Thurs 28 7pm
In-Reply-To: <47C5D224.3020509@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <891247.99183.qm@web34815.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Alright, I guess I'll do the .NET talk. 

What room are we meeting in, exactly? Also, for people who have
already been there, what's a good place to loiter in if I get there
early?

I will be taking the CTA. After the trip, I'll write up a nicer set
of directions to post to the conference website.

- Feihong

--- Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:

> We are good to go.
> 
> Where: http://us.pycon.org - If you can't figure it out, file a bug
> report
> When: Thurs Feb 28 7pm
> Who: anyone who wants to show up, asking questions is encouraged.
> What: get a taste of PyCon:
> 
> Kumar - Unicode in Python, Completely Demystified
> Feihong - 103 B "Using .NET Libraries in CPython" or part of our
> tutorial.
> 
> Anyone else?  (I know someone at the Feb14 meeting said they were
> interested. 
> hope my email server didn't eat the message.)
> 
> Feihong, I suggest doing your session talk, just because the 30 min
> limit is 
> harder to fit, and practicing will help, or something like that.  I
> am sure you 
> are going to run out of time on your tutorial too, but after 2+
> hours of high 
> bandwidth awesomeness, I think most will be saturated.
> 
> Cark K
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

From pfein at pobox.com  Wed Feb 27 23:05:46 2008
From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 17:05:46 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] MPI in Python?
In-Reply-To: <18373.43191.502567.812113@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
References: <18373.29761.683703.653997@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
	<433D531E-EF36-4C1A-98FC-61C8659E83CB@cs.depaul.edu>
	<18373.43191.502567.812113@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
Message-ID: <200802271705.49075.pfein@pobox.com>

On Wednesday February 27 2008 1:15:19 pm skip at pobox.com wrote:
>     Massimo> Is the CPU don't share the same RAM threading is not an option
>     Massimo> unless you use OpenMP, which emulates shared memory but it is
>     Massimo> very slow compared with MPI. Nobody uses it anymore.
>
> So MPI means "Message Passing Interface" where the messages must be passed
> via shared memory?  *sigh* If so, I'll look elsewhere for solutions.

My presentation at the March meeting is on my recent work on GrassyKnoll, 
including a multi-{thread,core,box} message passing layer. Lock-free 
concurrency at it's best - kill the GIL where it lives.

Oh, did I mention it's based on HTTP?  Yeah.

--Pete

-- 
Peter Fein   ||   773-575-0694   ||   pfein at pobox.com
http://www.pobox.com/~pfein/   ||   PGP: 0xCCF6AE6B
irc: pfein at freenode.net   ||   jabber: peter.fein at gmail.com

From anthony.r.rubin at gmail.com  Wed Feb 27 23:21:45 2008
From: anthony.r.rubin at gmail.com (Anthony Rubin)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:21:45 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] PyCon practice Confirmed: Thurs 28 7pm
In-Reply-To: <891247.99183.qm@web34815.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <47C5D224.3020509@personnelware.com>
	<891247.99183.qm@web34815.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4cf38240802271421o5f18ec92oa186fe5ad6c1e603@mail.gmail.com>

There is a cafeteria in the hotel right across the hall from the
conference room we we were in last time.

Exit the train, walk down the stairs, walk through the turnstiles and
out the glass doors. Turn to your left and follow the sidewalk until
you hit the sidewalk along River Road. Turn left and walk south along
River Road. You will have to cross both an exit and an entrance ramp
to the expressway; be careful. When you hit Bryn Mawr you will want to
cross River Road; the Sprint building is on the corner. As you walk
south you will pass the Sofitel, Embassy Suites and the Doubletree
before coming to the Crown Plaza. Once you enter the hotel turn to
your right to access the conference rooms. Last time there was a sign
straight ahead as you entered the hall that listed which room the
Python meeting was in.

The CTA station is at 5801 N. River Rd. and the hotel is at 5440 N.
You will end up walking about 3.5 blocks south which is just under
half a mile (Chicago blocks are still accurate in Rosemont from what
I've found).

Anthony Rubin
Chicago, IL

On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 3:57 PM, Feihong Hsu <hsu.feihong at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Alright, I guess I'll do the .NET talk.
>
>  What room are we meeting in, exactly? Also, for people who have
>  already been there, what's a good place to loiter in if I get there
>  early?
>
>  I will be taking the CTA. After the trip, I'll write up a nicer set
>  of directions to post to the conference website.
>
>  - Feihong
>
>
>
>  --- Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:
>
>  > We are good to go.
>  >
>  > Where: http://us.pycon.org - If you can't figure it out, file a bug
>  > report
>  > When: Thurs Feb 28 7pm
>  > Who: anyone who wants to show up, asking questions is encouraged.
>  > What: get a taste of PyCon:
>  >
>  > Kumar - Unicode in Python, Completely Demystified
>  > Feihong - 103 B "Using .NET Libraries in CPython" or part of our
>  > tutorial.
>  >
>  > Anyone else?  (I know someone at the Feb14 meeting said they were
>  > interested.
>  > hope my email server didn't eat the message.)
>  >
>  > Feihong, I suggest doing your session talk, just because the 30 min
>  > limit is
>  > harder to fit, and practicing will help, or something like that.  I
>  > am sure you
>  > are going to run out of time on your tutorial too, but after 2+
>  > hours of high
>  > bandwidth awesomeness, I think most will be saturated.
>  >
>  > Cark K
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > Chicago mailing list
>  > Chicago at python.org
>  > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>  >
>
>
>
>
>       ____________________________________________________________________________________
>  Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
>  http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>  Chicago mailing list
>  Chicago at python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From maney at two14.net  Thu Feb 28 13:44:12 2008
From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 06:44:12 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] MPI in Python?
In-Reply-To: <0DF17B0E-9A62-4F69-B696-28107BF1BB0D@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <18373.29761.683703.653997@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
	<0DF17B0E-9A62-4F69-B696-28107BF1BB0D@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <20080228124412.GC6547@furrr.two14.net>

On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 10:16:25AM -0600, Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
> If you need parallelization ,you care about speed. If you care about  
> speed use C/C++.

If only CPU cycles were the most expensive item, it really would be
this simple.  :-)

-- 
If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of
exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an
idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps
it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into
the possession of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess
himself of it.  -- Thomas Jefferson


From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Thu Feb 28 16:07:53 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 09:07:53 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] MPI in Python?
In-Reply-To: <20080228124412.GC6547@furrr.two14.net>
References: <18373.29761.683703.653997@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
	<0DF17B0E-9A62-4F69-B696-28107BF1BB0D@cs.depaul.edu>
	<20080228124412.GC6547@furrr.two14.net>
Message-ID: <44C1719E-7495-4C7F-9BB3-F4488C520A68@cs.depaul.edu>

I strongly agree with your observation.

Massimo

On Feb 28, 2008, at 6:44 AM, Martin Maney wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 10:16:25AM -0600, Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
>> If you need parallelization ,you care about speed. If you care about
>> speed use C/C++.
>
> If only CPU cycles were the most expensive item, it really would be
> this simple.  :-)
>
> --
> If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of
> exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an
> idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps
> it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into
> the possession of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess
> himself of it.  -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From sgithens at caret.cam.ac.uk  Fri Feb 29 17:09:41 2008
From: sgithens at caret.cam.ac.uk (swg)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 10:09:41 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Good Talks last night
Message-ID: <47C82E45.8050407@caret.cam.ac.uk>

While we were worried for a second that there wouldn't be enough room to 
accommodate everyone at last nights extra February meeting, we managed 
to squeeze in for the talks.  Thanks to the presenters practicing for 
PyCon, it was really worthwhile and interesting.

-Steve

From carl at personnelware.com  Fri Feb 29 19:06:52 2008
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 12:06:52 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] trac setup
Message-ID: <47C849BC.7010903@personnelware.com>

I am setting up my 2nd trac instance, and went looking for instructions. 
Noticed a hole the docs that I bet someone around here could fill:

http://trac.edgewall.org/wiki/TracCaseStudies

"One Trac Project.. repo...db"
(empty)

Anyone have their MyTracSetupChecklist.txt they could post?

Carl K


From skip at pobox.com  Fri Feb 29 21:51:01 2008
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 14:51:01 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Reminder - conference food tasting tomorrow
Message-ID: <18376.28725.152891.400237@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>


Just a quick reminder.  I'll be visiting the conference hotel tomorrow at
noon to sample the food they are proposing to serve us at the conference.
If you have some time and can help out, please drop by.  I was told they
would have a lot of food, so there will certainly be more there than I can
eat.  I believe Kumar is the only person who indicated he was going to try
to make it.

I'll probably have on a UCLA stocking cap or a baseball cap (if it's a bit
warmer).

Skip