From bray at sent.com Fri Sep 1 00:55:35 2006 From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 17:55:35 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Ode to <> In-Reply-To: <44F7407C.90408@colorstudy.com> References: <12422.12.20.83.70.1157050952.squirrel@mail.npsis.com> <44F7407C.90408@colorstudy.com> Message-ID: <18D8BB70-44AE-48EC-9AC7-5888F13AB8B5@sent.com> On Aug 31, 2006, at 3:03 PM, Ian Bicking wrote: > Brian Ray wrote: >> Instead all together, it would be nice to be able to define our own >> operators from time to time. > > http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/384122 Ok, this was not exactly what I was talking about. Interesting, none the less. More, it may be handy to say: class ... def operator !=(self, rhs): if self.something != rhs.something: return True return False Or something along the lines of actually associating the operators with classes. --bhr From bray at sent.com Fri Sep 1 01:01:44 2006 From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 18:01:44 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Ode to <> In-Reply-To: <18D8BB70-44AE-48EC-9AC7-5888F13AB8B5@sent.com> References: <12422.12.20.83.70.1157050952.squirrel@mail.npsis.com> <44F7407C.90408@colorstudy.com> <18D8BB70-44AE-48EC-9AC7-5888F13AB8B5@sent.com> Message-ID: <74CAE7CA-EE0F-435A-B277-F9CADA007934@sent.com> On Aug 31, 2006, at 5:55 PM, Brian Ray wrote: > > Ok, this was not exactly what I was talking about. Interesting, > none the less. > > More, it may be handy to say: > > class ... > > def operator !=(self, rhs): > if self.something != rhs.something: > return True > return False hrm, am I forgetting about decorators? Maybe something close: class ... def !=(x): return Infix(x) @!= def ... --bhr From ianb at colorstudy.com Fri Sep 1 01:03:14 2006 From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 18:03:14 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Ode to <> In-Reply-To: <18D8BB70-44AE-48EC-9AC7-5888F13AB8B5@sent.com> References: <12422.12.20.83.70.1157050952.squirrel@mail.npsis.com> <44F7407C.90408@colorstudy.com> <18D8BB70-44AE-48EC-9AC7-5888F13AB8B5@sent.com> Message-ID: <44F76AB2.7090502@colorstudy.com> Brian Ray wrote: > On Aug 31, 2006, at 3:03 PM, Ian Bicking wrote: > >> Brian Ray wrote: >>> Instead all together, it would be nice to be able to define our own >>> operators from time to time. >> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/384122 > > Ok, this was not exactly what I was talking about. Interesting, none > the less. > > More, it may be handy to say: > > class ... > > def operator !=(self, rhs): > if self.something != rhs.something: > return True > return False > > Or something along the lines of actually associating the operators > with classes. Yes, "operator !=" is more clear than "__ne__", though I don't know how you'd spell "__ror__" or "__nonzero__", which are special methods that aren't associated with an operator (the first kind of is, but there's two methods associated -- __ror__ and __or__). For anyone following along but unsure about these magic methods: http://docs.python.org/ref/specialnames.html If you really want a version of Python where you can *add* new operators, then you might want to look at Logix: http://www.livelogix.net/logix/ http://www.livelogix.net/logix/tutorial/7-Languages-Extending-and-Creating.html#7.2 -- Ian Bicking | ianb at colorstudy.com | http://blog.ianbicking.org From bray at sent.com Fri Sep 1 16:21:56 2006 From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 09:21:56 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Ode to <> In-Reply-To: <44F76AB2.7090502@colorstudy.com> References: <12422.12.20.83.70.1157050952.squirrel@mail.npsis.com> <44F7407C.90408@colorstudy.com> <18D8BB70-44AE-48EC-9AC7-5888F13AB8B5@sent.com> <44F76AB2.7090502@colorstudy.com> Message-ID: <5EE39462-E665-4ED4-8CDF-B0FB624120B2@sent.com> On Aug 31, 2006, at 6:03 PM, Ian Bicking wrote: > For anyone following along but unsure about these magic methods: > http://docs.python.org/ref/specialnames.html These special method names seem to be Python's way of operator overloading, indeed. Still, your not defining an operator, your picking or adding behavior to one already existing. class A: def __init__(self,title): self.title = title def __add__(self,rhs): return "%s %s" % (rhs.title, self.title) if __name__ == "__main__": mine = A("Hi") your = A("Ian") print mine + your Neverthehow, this may still be what I am looking for. Although, I could not get this to work: class A: def __init__(self,title): self.title = title def __cmp__(self,rhs): return rhs.title == self.title if __name__ == "__main__": mine = A("Hi") your = A("Hi") print mine == your Maybe the == inside the method is being overwritten, as well. Or maybe I have this all wrong. -- bhr From maney at two14.net Fri Sep 1 17:19:37 2006 From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 10:19:37 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Ode to <> In-Reply-To: <5EE39462-E665-4ED4-8CDF-B0FB624120B2@sent.com> References: <12422.12.20.83.70.1157050952.squirrel@mail.npsis.com> <44F7407C.90408@colorstudy.com> <18D8BB70-44AE-48EC-9AC7-5888F13AB8B5@sent.com> <44F76AB2.7090502@colorstudy.com> <5EE39462-E665-4ED4-8CDF-B0FB624120B2@sent.com> Message-ID: <20060901151937.GA23326@furrr.two14.net> On Fri, Sep 01, 2006 at 09:21:56AM -0500, Brian Ray wrote: > Maybe the == inside the method is being overwritten, as well. Or > maybe I have this all wrong. Not exactly wrong, but you'll want to reviews section 3.3.1 of the Python Reference Manual if you're going to play with redefining operators. Relevant to this specific usage: __lt__(self, other) __le__(self, other) __eq__(self, other) __ne__(self, other) __gt__(self, other) __ge__(self, other) New in version 2.1. These are the so-called `rich comparison'' methods, and are called for comparison operators in preference to __cmp__() -- Among the greater ironies of the computer age is the fact that information is cheap and accessible, and so it is no longer very valuable. What is valuable is what one does with it. And human imagination cannot be mechanized. -- the New York Times From ianb at colorstudy.com Fri Sep 1 17:22:19 2006 From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking) Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 10:22:19 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Ode to <> In-Reply-To: <5EE39462-E665-4ED4-8CDF-B0FB624120B2@sent.com> References: <12422.12.20.83.70.1157050952.squirrel@mail.npsis.com> <44F7407C.90408@colorstudy.com> <18D8BB70-44AE-48EC-9AC7-5888F13AB8B5@sent.com> <44F76AB2.7090502@colorstudy.com> <5EE39462-E665-4ED4-8CDF-B0FB624120B2@sent.com> Message-ID: <44F8502B.7090709@colorstudy.com> Brian Ray wrote: > class A: > def __init__(self,title): > self.title = title > def __cmp__(self,rhs): > return rhs.title == self.title You got __cmp__ wrong -- you probably meant to do __eq__; __cmp__ is a -1/0/1 sorting comparison. So 0 means equal (-1 means less-than, 1 means more-than). You should also do something like "if isinstance(rhs, self.__class__)", since "A() == 'foo'" is a valid expression that shouldn't raise an AttributeError. -- Ian Bicking | ianb at colorstudy.com | http://blog.ianbicking.org From bray at sent.com Fri Sep 1 17:37:23 2006 From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 10:37:23 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Ode to <> In-Reply-To: <20060901151937.GA23326@furrr.two14.net> References: <12422.12.20.83.70.1157050952.squirrel@mail.npsis.com> <44F7407C.90408@colorstudy.com> <18D8BB70-44AE-48EC-9AC7-5888F13AB8B5@sent.com> <44F76AB2.7090502@colorstudy.com> <5EE39462-E665-4ED4-8CDF-B0FB624120B2@sent.com> <20060901151937.GA23326@furrr.two14.net> Message-ID: On Sep 1, 2006, at 10:19 AM, Martin Maney wrote: > __eq__(self, other) Oh yes, ok, I. Well, Python has me covered. But still, I do not see a way to define <>. IMHO, there also should be a way. --bhr From bray at sent.com Fri Sep 1 17:40:23 2006 From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 10:40:23 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Ode to <> In-Reply-To: <44F8502B.7090709@colorstudy.com> References: <12422.12.20.83.70.1157050952.squirrel@mail.npsis.com> <44F7407C.90408@colorstudy.com> <18D8BB70-44AE-48EC-9AC7-5888F13AB8B5@sent.com> <44F76AB2.7090502@colorstudy.com> <5EE39462-E665-4ED4-8CDF-B0FB624120B2@sent.com> <44F8502B.7090709@colorstudy.com> Message-ID: <148C6573-1A14-41A1-AAD0-06150DC4F28C@sent.com> On Sep 1, 2006, at 10:22 AM, Ian Bicking wrote: > You got __cmp__ wrong -- you probably meant to do __eq__; __cmp__ is a > -1/0/1 sorting comparison. So 0 means equal (-1 means less-than, 1 > means more-than). OK, class A: def __init__(self,title): self.title = title def __eq__(self,rhs): if rhs.title == self.title: return True return False if __name__ == "__main__": mine = A("Hi") your = A("Hi") print mine == your your.title = "Bye" print mine == your Nice. From maney at two14.net Fri Sep 1 17:36:36 2006 From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 10:36:36 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Ode to <> In-Reply-To: References: <12422.12.20.83.70.1157050952.squirrel@mail.npsis.com> <44F7407C.90408@colorstudy.com> <18D8BB70-44AE-48EC-9AC7-5888F13AB8B5@sent.com> <44F76AB2.7090502@colorstudy.com> <5EE39462-E665-4ED4-8CDF-B0FB624120B2@sent.com> <20060901151937.GA23326@furrr.two14.net> Message-ID: <20060901153636.GB23326@furrr.two14.net> On Fri, Sep 01, 2006 at 10:37:23AM -0500, Brian Ray wrote: > Oh yes, ok, I. Well, Python has me covered. Ian's right about the implementation you hadfor __cmp__, of course. I didn't even look at it beyond seeing __cmp__ and thinking "that's not [the preferred] way to do it these days." > But still, I do not see a way to define <>. IMHO, there also should > be a way. It's just an alternate spelling of !=, so that would be __ne__, no? -- You know, if you were really going to starve, you'd be justified in writing proprietary software. -- R M Stallman From ianb at colorstudy.com Fri Sep 1 17:39:23 2006 From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking) Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 10:39:23 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Ode to <> In-Reply-To: References: <12422.12.20.83.70.1157050952.squirrel@mail.npsis.com> <44F7407C.90408@colorstudy.com> <18D8BB70-44AE-48EC-9AC7-5888F13AB8B5@sent.com> <44F76AB2.7090502@colorstudy.com> <5EE39462-E665-4ED4-8CDF-B0FB624120B2@sent.com> <20060901151937.GA23326@furrr.two14.net> Message-ID: <44F8542B.4010509@colorstudy.com> Brian Ray wrote: > On Sep 1, 2006, at 10:19 AM, Martin Maney wrote: > >> __eq__(self, other) > > > Oh yes, ok, I. Well, Python has me covered. > > But still, I do not see a way to define <>. IMHO, there also should > be a way. __neq__ (not equal). If you don't define __neq__ it will use "not __eq__". Of course, there's no way to make != and <> act differently. Note you can also do funny tricks with this stuff, since these methods don't have to return True/False. This is how SQLObject/SQLBuilder expressions work (and you can see the same technique elsewhere). For instance: class Expr(object): def __init__(self, expr): self.expr = expr def __str__(self): return self.expr def __eq__(self, other): return Expr('%s=%s' % (self, other)) def __neq__(self, other): return Expr('%s<>%s' % (self, other)) def __gt__(self, other): return Expr('%s>%s' % (self, other)) def __getattr__(self, attr): return Expr('%s.%s' % (self, attr)) # and so on... person = Expr('person') print person.fname == 'Joe' -- Ian Bicking | ianb at colorstudy.com | http://blog.ianbicking.org From dbt at meat.net Fri Sep 1 17:47:54 2006 From: dbt at meat.net (David Terrell) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 10:47:54 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Ode to <> In-Reply-To: <148C6573-1A14-41A1-AAD0-06150DC4F28C@sent.com> References: <12422.12.20.83.70.1157050952.squirrel@mail.npsis.com> <44F7407C.90408@colorstudy.com> <18D8BB70-44AE-48EC-9AC7-5888F13AB8B5@sent.com> <44F76AB2.7090502@colorstudy.com> <5EE39462-E665-4ED4-8CDF-B0FB624120B2@sent.com> <44F8502B.7090709@colorstudy.com> <148C6573-1A14-41A1-AAD0-06150DC4F28C@sent.com> Message-ID: <20060901154754.GB12994@sphinx.chicagopeoplez.org> On Fri, Sep 01, 2006 at 10:40:23AM -0500, Brian Ray wrote: > def __eq__(self,rhs): > if rhs.title == self.title: > return True > return False def __eq__(self, rhs): return (rhs.title == self.title) unnecessary branches sap your bodily fluids. -- David Terrell dbt at meat.net ((meatspace)) http://meat.net/ From luke at metathusalan.com Fri Sep 1 17:54:56 2006 From: luke at metathusalan.com (Luke Opperman) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 10:54:56 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Ode to <> In-Reply-To: <44F8542B.4010509@colorstudy.com> References: <12422.12.20.83.70.1157050952.squirrel@mail.npsis.com> <44F7407C.90408@colorstudy.com> <18D8BB70-44AE-48EC-9AC7-5888F13AB8B5@sent.com> <44F76AB2.7090502@colorstudy.com> <5EE39462-E665-4ED4-8CDF-B0FB624120B2@sent.com> <20060901151937.GA23326@furrr.two14.net> <44F8542B.4010509@colorstudy.com> Message-ID: <20060901105456.jpcbo8g800sc0gso@mail.opperman.net> Quoting Ian Bicking : > Note you can also do funny tricks with this stuff, since these methods > don't have to return True/False. This is how SQLObject/SQLBuilder > expressions work (and you can see the same technique elsewhere). For > instance: Now why did they make "in" (__contains__) forced to True/False? From maney at two14.net Fri Sep 1 19:54:28 2006 From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 12:54:28 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Ode to <> In-Reply-To: <20060901154754.GB12994@sphinx.chicagopeoplez.org> References: <12422.12.20.83.70.1157050952.squirrel@mail.npsis.com> <44F7407C.90408@colorstudy.com> <18D8BB70-44AE-48EC-9AC7-5888F13AB8B5@sent.com> <44F76AB2.7090502@colorstudy.com> <5EE39462-E665-4ED4-8CDF-B0FB624120B2@sent.com> <44F8502B.7090709@colorstudy.com> <148C6573-1A14-41A1-AAD0-06150DC4F28C@sent.com> <20060901154754.GB12994@sphinx.chicagopeoplez.org> Message-ID: <20060901175428.GA23372@furrr.two14.net> On Fri, Sep 01, 2006 at 10:47:54AM -0500, David Terrell wrote: > unnecessary branches sap your bodily fluids. s/sap/pollute/ And you might want to toss a "precious" in there, too. -- Truth in advertising is like leaven, which a woman hid in three measures of meal. It provides a suitable quantity of gas, with which to blow out a mass of crude misrepresentations into a form that the public can swallow. - Dorothy Sayers, _Murder Must Advertise_ From fitz at red-bean.com Sat Sep 9 00:04:04 2006 From: fitz at red-bean.com (Brian W. Fitzpatrick) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 17:04:04 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Thurs, Sept 14th. Message-ID: I'm going to need a list of all people attending to give to building security, so if you're thinking of coming, please send me your name (just to me--use my fitz at google dot com address please). Who else is speaking? Ben and I are only planning on talking for a short bit, so I'd love to hear from others. -Fitz From garrett at mojave-corp.com Sat Sep 9 09:09:08 2006 From: garrett at mojave-corp.com (Garrett Smith) Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 00:09:08 -0700 Subject: [Chicago] Thurs, Sept 14th. References: Message-ID: <14B24D513038494CB556EFD4BD36A81201513004@snshbea105.4smartphone.snx> I can make it. I mentioned in an earlier thread that I can present (short) my use of Trac + Subversion + doctests, which could be viewed as an extention to the doctest presentation I gave many months ago. -----Original Message----- From: chicago-bounces at python.org on behalf of Brian W. Fitzpatrick Sent: Fri 9/8/2006 3:04 PM To: The Chicago Python Users Group Subject: [Chicago] Thurs, Sept 14th. I'm going to need a list of all people attending to give to building security, so if you're thinking of coming, please send me your name (just to me--use my fitz at google dot com address please). Who else is speaking? Ben and I are only planning on talking for a short bit, so I'd love to hear from others. -Fitz _______________________________________________ Chicago mailing list Chicago at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 2936 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/mailman/private/chicago/attachments/20060909/bc59be84/attachment.bin From clintecker at alumni.purdue.edu Sat Sep 9 15:04:57 2006 From: clintecker at alumni.purdue.edu (Clint Ecker) Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 08:04:57 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Thurs, Sept 14th. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <63a0f2c50609090604w7cde500cg4d154d5fceec2076@mail.gmail.com> I wll be attending. Jacqui Cheng may also be attending. On 9/8/06, Brian W. Fitzpatrick wrote: > I'm going to need a list of all people attending to give to building > security, so if you're thinking of coming, please send me your name > (just to me--use my fitz at google dot com address please). > > Who else is speaking? Ben and I are only planning on talking for a > short bit, so I'd love to hear from others. > > -Fitz > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > -- Clint Ecker 312.863.9323 clintecker at gmail.com http://phaedo.cx AIM: IdiosyncrasyFG From bray at sent.com Sat Sep 9 21:59:50 2006 From: bray at sent.com (bray at sent.com) Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2006 14:59:50 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Call for Presentations In-Reply-To: <14B24D513038494CB556EFD4BD36A81201512FF5@snshbea105.4smartphone.snx> References: <6CE50E02-7D1A-4C2F-BC5A-C0A11E097733@sent.com> <14B24D513038494CB556EFD4BD36A81201512FF5@snshbea105.4smartphone.snx> Message-ID: <1157831990.718.270532282@webmail.messagingengine.com> On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 07:49:13 -0700, "Garrett Smith" said: > I've been messing around with a collaborative Python environment using > Trac and Subversion. I've added a few tweaks to get Python doctests (I > presented these a few months ago) incorporated into the Trac Wiki, making > for a pretty sweet environment. > > If anyone's interested in seeing this setup, I can run through a short > presentation. OK, I put you on the topic list on our lovely wiki . I want to do a lightning talk on Special method names for operator overloading or possibly this Function Overloading . This should end up 10-20 minutes. Although, I have never used these but I want to check them out; so, this can be a pair talk if someone wants to help me out. Volunteers? -- bhr From bray at sent.com Sat Sep 9 22:14:00 2006 From: bray at sent.com (bray at sent.com) Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2006 15:14:00 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Python 3000 Message-ID: <1157832840.1433.270533253@webmail.messagingengine.com> I found this talk interesting: He states that this is not a new language, because Python is already pretty good. He says everything is not up for discussion like with Perl6. It might be fun to play this video at a future meeting. In case your up for this, I can put off my talk and we can listen to this and get feedback instead. your thoughts? -- bhr From bray at sent.com Mon Sep 11 17:19:19 2006 From: bray at sent.com (bray at sent.com) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 10:19:19 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] ANN: ChiPy Thurs. September 14, 2006. 7pm @ Google, Chicago Message-ID: <1157987959.23579.270631250@webmail.messagingengine.com> Chicago Python User Group ========================= Come join us for our best meeting ever! Topics ------ * Google Code (Brian Fitzpatrick and Ben Collins-Sussman) * Trac + Subversion + doctests (Garrett Smith) * Special method names for operator overloading (Brian Ray) Location -------- Google's Chicago office 20 West Kinzie Street, 9th Floor Chicago, IL 60610 Location description: "18 story glass and steel building on the Northwest corner of Dearborn and Kinzie." "Across the street from Harry Carey's" "Upstairs from Keefer's restaurant" * Map Enter via the lobby on the South side of the building, between Keefer's restaurant and Keefer's cafe. Street (meter) parking is kinda sorta available in the area. Garage and lot parking is also available Southwest and East of our building. 1. The closest "L" stop is Grand on the Red Line and Clark/Lake on the "Blue/Green/Orange/Brown/Purple Line". (All are about an 8 minute walk from Google) 2. The closest Metra station is the Ogilvie Transportation Center (in the Citibank building) (about 20 minutes walk or take the Riverbus) 3. The closest River Bus stop is at Michigan Avenue (By the Wrigley Building at 2 North Riverside Plaza. () ;-) 4. The nearest helipad is at the mouth of the river, near Navy Pier. Obtain security clearance before landing. *** A Special Note from Fitz:: I'm going to need a list of all people attending to give to building security, so if you're thinking of coming, please send me your name (just to me--use my fitz at google dot com address please). About ChiPy ----------- ChiPy is a group of Chicago Python Programmers, l33t, and n00bs. Meetings are held monthly at various locations around Chicago. Also, ChiPy is a proud sponsor of many Open Source and Educational efforts in Chicago. Stay tuned to the mailing list for more info. ChiPy website: ChiPy Mailing List: Python website: ---- Forward this on. From daniel.delapava at gmail.com Tue Sep 12 08:49:57 2006 From: daniel.delapava at gmail.com (Daniel Delapava) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 01:49:57 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] ANN: ChiPy Thurs. September 14, 2006. 7pm @ Google, Chicago In-Reply-To: <1157987959.23579.270631250@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1157987959.23579.270631250@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <45065895.6060805@gmail.com> any plan for some beer after the meeting this thursday? - Daniel bray at sent.com wrote: > Chicago Python User Group > ========================= > > Come join us for our best meeting ever! > > Topics > ------ > > * Google Code (Brian Fitzpatrick and Ben Collins-Sussman) > * Trac + Subversion + doctests (Garrett Smith) > * Special method names for operator overloading (Brian Ray) > > Location > -------- > > Google's Chicago office > 20 West Kinzie Street, 9th Floor > Chicago, IL 60610 > > Location description: > "18 story glass and steel building on the Northwest corner of Dearborn > and Kinzie." > "Across the street from Harry Carey's" > "Upstairs from Keefer's restaurant" > > * Map > > Enter via the lobby on the South side of the building, between Keefer's > restaurant and Keefer's cafe. > > Street (meter) parking is kinda sorta available in the area. Garage and > lot parking is also available Southwest and East of our building. > > 1. The closest "L" stop is Grand on the Red Line and Clark/Lake on the > "Blue/Green/Orange/Brown/Purple Line". (All are about an 8 minute walk > from Google) > 2. The closest Metra station is the Ogilvie Transportation Center (in > the Citibank building) (about 20 minutes walk or take the Riverbus) > 3. The closest River Bus stop is at Michigan Avenue (By the Wrigley > Building at 2 North Riverside Plaza. > () ;-) > 4. The nearest helipad is at the mouth of the river, near Navy Pier. > Obtain security clearance before landing. > > *** A Special Note from Fitz:: > > I'm going to need a list of all people attending to give to building > security, so if you're thinking of coming, please send me your name > (just to me--use my fitz at google dot com address please). > > About ChiPy > ----------- > > ChiPy is a group of Chicago Python Programmers, l33t, and n00bs. > Meetings are held monthly at various locations around Chicago. > Also, ChiPy is a proud sponsor of many Open Source and Educational > efforts in Chicago. Stay tuned to the mailing list for more info. > > ChiPy website: > ChiPy Mailing List: > Python website: > > ---- > > Forward this on. > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > From bray at sent.com Tue Sep 12 19:02:44 2006 From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 12:02:44 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Thurs. Meeting Correction/Addition Message-ID: <4E972578-B7CA-4DDD-A30A-5D64E09D449B@sent.com> Please note: Changes for "FrontPage" Line 53: Line 53: ADDED ** Pizza/refreshments will be served. ** Line 61: Line 63: FIXED "18 story glass and steel building on the Northeast corner of Dearborn and Kinzie." The change is that the building is on the Northeast corner. If you get lost, just keep walking around the block until you get dizzy, pass out or hit a "break". --bhr From fitz at red-bean.com Tue Sep 12 19:39:59 2006 From: fitz at red-bean.com (Brian W. Fitzpatrick) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 12:39:59 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Thurs. Meeting Correction/Addition In-Reply-To: <4E972578-B7CA-4DDD-A30A-5D64E09D449B@sent.com> References: <4E972578-B7CA-4DDD-A30A-5D64E09D449B@sent.com> Message-ID: On 9/12/06, Brian Ray wrote: > The change is that the building is on the Northeast corner. If you > get lost, just keep walking around the block until you get dizzy, > pass out or hit a "break". And just for the record, I'm the chowderhead who bungled the directions. I blame the Sudafed. Mmmm..... Sudafed.... -Fitz From ddrarrowstomper at hotmail.com Wed Sep 13 06:54:52 2006 From: ddrarrowstomper at hotmail.com (Aaron O'Brennan) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 23:54:52 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] (no subject) Message-ID: _________________________________________________________________ Got something to buy, sell or swap? Try Windows Live Expo ttp://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwex0010000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://expo.live.com/ From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com Fri Sep 15 22:28:42 2006 From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 15:28:42 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Thanks Google... Message-ID: <3096c19d0609151328l1eefd109n9c76443c3f98fc23@mail.gmail.com> ...and Fitz / Ben for hosting last night. Thanks to Brian and Jason for breading up the Google sandwich. Really fun night. Best meeting ever. Chris From fitz at red-bean.com Fri Sep 15 23:13:44 2006 From: fitz at red-bean.com (Brian W. Fitzpatrick) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 16:13:44 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Thanks Google... In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0609151328l1eefd109n9c76443c3f98fc23@mail.gmail.com> References: <3096c19d0609151328l1eefd109n9c76443c3f98fc23@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 9/15/06, Chris McAvoy wrote: > ...and Fitz / Ben for hosting last night. Thanks to Brian and Jason > for breading up the Google sandwich. We had a blast--thanks to everyone who showed up--our total count was 51 people! Here's the picture that Jacqui took at the end of the meeting. http://picasaweb.google.com/fitz.coder/Misc/photo#4975094780610084882 We hope we can host again in a few months! -Fitz From skip at pobox.com Fri Sep 15 23:31:01 2006 From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 16:31:01 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Thanks Google... In-Reply-To: References: <3096c19d0609151328l1eefd109n9c76443c3f98fc23@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <17675.7061.878705.18160@montanaro.dyndns.org> >> ...and Fitz / Ben for hosting last night. Thanks to Brian and Jason >> for breading up the Google sandwich. Brian> We had a blast--thanks to everyone who showed up--our total count Brian> was 51 people! Looks like it was one not to be missed. Maybe the turnout would always be huge if the host companies were limited to those whose names have become verbs in common English... ;-) Skip From deadwisdom at gmail.com Fri Sep 15 23:33:12 2006 From: deadwisdom at gmail.com (Brantley Harris) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 16:33:12 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Thanks Google... In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0609151328l1eefd109n9c76443c3f98fc23@mail.gmail.com> References: <3096c19d0609151328l1eefd109n9c76443c3f98fc23@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <694c06d60609151433ud1742c8jf378830558a1d63b@mail.gmail.com> Damn my sickness that kept me from this! On 9/15/06, Chris McAvoy wrote: > ...and Fitz / Ben for hosting last night. Thanks to Brian and Jason > for breading up the Google sandwich. > > Really fun night. Best meeting ever. > > Chris > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > From clint at robotic.com Fri Sep 15 23:56:44 2006 From: clint at robotic.com (Clint Laskowski) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 16:56:44 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Thanks Google... In-Reply-To: <17675.7061.878705.18160@montanaro.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <006601c6d911$d596f770$6601a8c0@clap1> >> ... if the host companies were limited to those whose names have become verbs in common English... ;-) And to those with free pizza, soda, snacks, cool artwork and interesting displays! It really was a very good meeting ... I still can not get over the six virtual systems running on that MacBook ... I've been to a plenty of talks and demos in my days (haven't we all?), but that one is etched in my mind for a long time! Good job, Jason! -- Clint "The Guy Who Drove Down from Milwaukee" Laskowski -----Original Message----- From: chicago-bounces at python.org [mailto:chicago-bounces at python.org] On Behalf Of skip at pobox.com Sent: Friday, September 15, 2006 4:31 PM To: The Chicago Python Users Group Subject: Re: [Chicago] Thanks Google... >> ...and Fitz / Ben for hosting last night. Thanks to Brian and Jason >> for breading up the Google sandwich. Brian> We had a blast--thanks to everyone who showed up--our total count Brian> was 51 people! Looks like it was one not to be missed. Maybe the turnout would always be huge if the host companies were limited to those whose names have become verbs in common English... ;-) Skip _______________________________________________ Chicago mailing list Chicago at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago From JRHuggins at thoughtworks.COM Sat Sep 16 00:21:35 2006 From: JRHuggins at thoughtworks.COM (Jason R Huggins) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 17:21:35 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Thanks Google... In-Reply-To: <006601c6d911$d596f770$6601a8c0@clap1> Message-ID: Clint "The Guy Who Drove Down from Chiwaukee" Laskowski wrote on 09/15/2006 04:56:44 PM: > It really was a very good meeting ... I still can not get over the six > virtual systems running on that MacBook ... I've been to a plenty of talks > and demos in my days (haven't we all?), but that one is etched in my mind > for a long time! Good job, Jason! Well, technically, it was *four* virtual machines, plus 2 concurrent Mac OS X sessions, but who's counting. :-) Anyway, yes... cheer, cheer for ye ol' Google. I'm really glad they like Python so much! :-) -Jason From david at graniteweb.com Sat Sep 16 00:29:26 2006 From: david at graniteweb.com (David Rock) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 17:29:26 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Thanks Google... In-Reply-To: <694c06d60609151433ud1742c8jf378830558a1d63b@mail.gmail.com> References: <3096c19d0609151328l1eefd109n9c76443c3f98fc23@mail.gmail.com> <694c06d60609151433ud1742c8jf378830558a1d63b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060915222926.GA12869@wdfs.graniteweb.com> * Brantley Harris [2006-09-15 16:33]: > Damn my sickness that kept me from this! No kidding... Double Damn. -- David Rock david at graniteweb.com From ph at malaprop.org Sat Sep 16 00:29:56 2006 From: ph at malaprop.org (Peter Harkins) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 17:29:56 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Thanks Google... In-Reply-To: <694c06d60609151433ud1742c8jf378830558a1d63b@mail.gmail.com> References: <3096c19d0609151328l1eefd109n9c76443c3f98fc23@mail.gmail.com> <694c06d60609151433ud1742c8jf378830558a1d63b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060915222956.GB9237@malaprop.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, Sep 15, 2006 at 04:33:12PM -0500, Brantley Harris wrote: > Damn my sickness that kept me from this! Pardon the self-promotion, but for those that missed it I've written up a quick overview of the presentations with lots of links: http://push.cx/2006/chipy-at-google - -- Peter Harkins - http://push.cx - http://cambrianhouse.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: If you don't know what this is, it's OK to ignore it. iD8DBQFFCylja6PWv6+ALKoRApQSAJ4gi9eUIgyatnc4Qu99cXDZFi/OvQCfX2cY gw8kjV0QnsV+v+xf1AuqmhY= =qzkM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mtobis at gmail.com Sat Sep 16 01:00:20 2006 From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 18:00:20 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Thanks Google... In-Reply-To: <17675.7061.878705.18160@montanaro.dyndns.org> References: <3096c19d0609151328l1eefd109n9c76443c3f98fc23@mail.gmail.com> <17675.7061.878705.18160@montanaro.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On 9/15/06, skip at pobox.com wrote: > > Looks like it was one not to be missed. Maybe the turnout would always be > huge if the host companies were limited to those whose names have become > verbs in common English... ;-) Tsk, we mustn't taunt our generous and illustrious hosts, Google Brand Search Engines, after their generous hospitality! This was our biggest meeting ever as well as our best. New attendees, please notice that while our hosts may not always be this famous, our meetings are always this good! Helping the world to understand that Python is part of what makes Google great will help keep Python great as well. So thanks Google, for hosting our meeting, for hiring Guido, for recognizing the greatest computer language ever for what it is, for supporting the community, and for helping spread the word! mt From Aavantguard at cs.com Tue Sep 12 16:24:12 2006 From: Aavantguard at cs.com (Aavantguard at cs.com) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:24:12 EDT Subject: [Chicago] Browser Compatibility Message-ID: <482.31db8f80.32381d0c@cs.com> Good Morning All, I am a beginning user of FrontPage and I have two questions: 1. At my level, would I be able to contribute to your group if I became a member? 2. The links on my site, www.ProfessorDennis.com which was developed in FrontPage, only work with Explorer and no other browsers. How can this be fixed? Thanks for your help. Dennis ____________________________________________ Dennis J. Frantsve u 215 N. Chester Ave. u Park Ridge, IL 60068 847-347-0631u E-mail: aavantguard at cs.com ____________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/mailman/private/chicago/attachments/20060912/77b406ec/attachment.html From garrett at mojave-corp.com Thu Sep 14 22:07:04 2006 From: garrett at mojave-corp.com (Garrett Smith) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 13:07:04 -0700 Subject: [Chicago] Can't make it tonight Message-ID: <14B24D513038494CB556EFD4BD36A81201513009@snshbea105.4smartphone.snx> Sorry about the last second notice, but I have a huge deadline tomorrow AM and I'll probably be pulling my second consecutive all nighter to get things done. Bumming me out :-( Any solid song and dance people, please free to take up my presentation slot. Garrett -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/mailman/private/chicago/attachments/20060914/c11d10b6/attachment.htm From kapteynr at cboe.com Thu Sep 14 23:16:19 2006 From: kapteynr at cboe.com (Kapteyn, Rob) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 16:16:19 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Thurs, Sept 14th. Message-ID: Fitz: I do not beleive that your "Fri 9/8/2006 3:04 PM" message got through to the list. I just noticed your RSVP request in Garrett's reply. I hope its not too late. -Rob Kapteyn -----Original Message----- From: chicago-bounces at python.org [mailto:chicago-bounces at python.org]On Behalf Of Garrett Smith Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 2:09 AM To: The Chicago Python Users Group Subject: RE: [Chicago] Thurs, Sept 14th. I can make it. I mentioned in an earlier thread that I can present (short) my use of Trac + Subversion + doctests, which could be viewed as an extention to the doctest presentation I gave many months ago. -----Original Message----- From: chicago-bounces at python.org on behalf of Brian W. Fitzpatrick Sent: Fri 9/8/2006 3:04 PM To: The Chicago Python Users Group Subject: [Chicago] Thurs, Sept 14th. I'm going to need a list of all people attending to give to building security, so if you're thinking of coming, please send me your name (just to me--use my fitz at google dot com address please). Who else is speaking? Ben and I are only planning on talking for a short bit, so I'd love to hear from others. -Fitz _______________________________________________ Chicago mailing list Chicago at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago From garrett at mojave-corp.com Sat Sep 16 13:41:01 2006 From: garrett at mojave-corp.com (Garrett Smith) Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 06:41:01 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Thurs, Sept 14th. Message-ID: For some reason my messages are getting routed to a holding tank for an admin's approval. This would have included my last note stating that I couldn't make Thurs. Dunno why. -----Original Message----- From: "Kapteyn, Rob" To: fitz at google.com Cc: "The Chicago Python Users Group" Sent: 9/14/06 4:16 PM Subject: Re: [Chicago] Thurs, Sept 14th. Fitz: I do not beleive that your "Fri 9/8/2006 3:04 PM" message got through to the list. I just noticed your RSVP request in Garrett's reply. I hope its not too late. -Rob Kapteyn -----Original Message----- From: chicago-bounces at python.org [mailto:chicago-bounces at python.org]On Behalf Of Garrett Smith Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 2:09 AM To: The Chicago Python Users Group Subject: RE: [Chicago] Thurs, Sept 14th. I can make it. I mentioned in an earlier thread that I can present (short) my use of Trac + Subversion + doctests, which could be viewed as an extention to the doctest presentation I gave many months ago. -----Original Message----- From: chicago-bounces at python.org on behalf of Brian W. Fitzpatrick Sent: Fri 9/8/2006 3:04 PM To: The Chicago Python Users Group Subject: [Chicago] Thurs, Sept 14th. I'm going to need a list of all people attending to give to building security, so if you're thinking of coming, please send me your name (just to me--use my fitz at google dot com address please). Who else is speaking? Ben and I are only planning on talking for a short bit, so I'd love to hear from others. -Fitz _______________________________________________ Chicago mailing list Chicago at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago _______________________________________________ Chicago mailing list Chicago at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago From skip at pobox.com Sat Sep 16 14:12:00 2006 From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com) Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 07:12:00 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Thurs, Sept 14th. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <17675.59920.976857.254834@montanaro.dyndns.org> Garrett> For some reason my messages are getting routed to a holding Garrett> tank for an admin's approval. This would have included my last Garrett> note stating that I couldn't make Thurs. Dunno why. I assume it wasn't too big. Did you BCC the list? Have a lot of other recipients? I went through a round of approvals on a number of lists last night and approved the ones that looked valid. I didn't pay much attention to why they were held for approval in the first place. When a message of yours is held for approval you should get a note from Mailman explaining why. Did you not get one? Skip From garrett at mojave-corp.com Sat Sep 16 14:41:03 2006 From: garrett at mojave-corp.com (Garrett Smith) Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 07:41:03 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Thurs, Sept 14th. Message-ID: Hmmm...yes, I did get a notice. But stupid spam filter snagged it. Just saw it now. -----Original Message----- From: skip at pobox.com To: "The Chicago Python Users Group" Sent: 9/16/06 7:12 AM Subject: Re: [Chicago] Thurs, Sept 14th. Garrett> For some reason my messages are getting routed to a holding Garrett> tank for an admin's approval. This would have included my last Garrett> note stating that I couldn't make Thurs. Dunno why. I assume it wasn't too big. Did you BCC the list? Have a lot of other recipients? I went through a round of approvals on a number of lists last night and approved the ones that looked valid. I didn't pay much attention to why they were held for approval in the first place. When a message of yours is held for approval you should get a note from Mailman explaining why. Did you not get one? Skip _______________________________________________ Chicago mailing list Chicago at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago From skip at pobox.com Sat Sep 16 15:46:19 2006 From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com) Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 08:46:19 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Thurs, Sept 14th. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <17676.43.106053.129957@montanaro.dyndns.org> Garrett> Hmmm...yes, I did get a notice. But stupid spam filter snagged Garrett> it. Just saw it now. Maybe you just need a smarter spam filter. ;-) Might I suggest SpamBayes? http://www.spambayes.org/ Skip From garrett at mojave-corp.com Sat Sep 16 17:45:06 2006 From: garrett at mojave-corp.com (Garrett Smith) Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 10:45:06 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Thurs, Sept 14th. Message-ID: Yeah, yeah...been a thorn in my side for a while now. Still, for some reason my msg got flagged for review (i.e. you started it ;-) -----Original Message----- From: skip at pobox.com To: "The Chicago Python Users Group" Sent: 9/16/06 8:46 AM Subject: Re: [Chicago] Thurs, Sept 14th. Garrett> Hmmm...yes, I did get a notice. But stupid spam filter snagged Garrett> it. Just saw it now. Maybe you just need a smarter spam filter. ;-) Might I suggest SpamBayes? http://www.spambayes.org/ Skip _______________________________________________ Chicago mailing list Chicago at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago From ph at malaprop.org Sat Sep 16 19:13:46 2006 From: ph at malaprop.org (Peter Harkins) Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 12:13:46 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Browser Compatibility In-Reply-To: <482.31db8f80.32381d0c@cs.com> References: <482.31db8f80.32381d0c@cs.com> Message-ID: <20060916171346.GA9882@malaprop.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, Sep 12, 2006 at 10:24:12AM -0400, Aavantguard at cs.com wrote: > 1. At my level, would I be able to contribute to your group if I became a > member? Hi Dennis, ChiPy welcomes folks at all experience levels who are interested in Python. Nice to have you. > 2. The links on my site, www.ProfessorDennis.com which was developed in > FrontPage, only work with Explorer and no other browsers. How can this > be fixed? Don't use FrontPage. I know that's not an answer you want to hear, but FP is really not a good tool for building websites. If you're interested in learning how to build websites, I recommend the book "Head First HTML with CSS and XHTML" by Elisabeth and Eric Freeman. - -- Peter Harkins - http://push.cx - http://cambrianhouse.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: If you don't know what this is, it's OK to ignore it. iD8DBQFFDDDIa6PWv6+ALKoRAtQoAJ46whm0CxZL4uNTGfAjTeZIbTmioQCfUKBt 8qJbnvVKcmJEPX6XXW8Rbgo= =/Dfs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jason at hostedlabs.com Sat Sep 16 20:19:07 2006 From: jason at hostedlabs.com (Jason Rexilius) Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 11:19:07 -0700 Subject: [Chicago] Browser Compatibility In-Reply-To: <20060916171346.GA9882@malaprop.org> References: <482.31db8f80.32381d0c@cs.com> <20060916171346.GA9882@malaprop.org> Message-ID: <450C401B.6010602@hostedlabs.com> Hey Dennis, I would go one suggestion further and say that if you want to continue using an HTML editor or IDE that you should consider using another program such as Dreamweaver, HomeSite, nVu, jEdit.. most of these will put out code that will be reasonably cross-browser and many of them have export funtions that will output in strict standard compliance mode.. Microsoft Frontpage may have an option to force standards compliance mode, but I am not sure. Honestly, this is less a python issue as much as it is an HTML editor issue but hopefully that helps! -jason > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Tue, Sep 12, 2006 at 10:24:12AM -0400, Aavantguard at cs.com wrote: > >> 1. At my level, would I be able to contribute to your group if I became a >> member? >> > > Hi Dennis, > > ChiPy welcomes folks at all experience levels who are interested in > Python. Nice to have you. > > >> 2. The links on my site, www.ProfessorDennis.com which was developed in >> FrontPage, only work with Explorer and no other browsers. How can this >> be fixed? >> > > Don't use FrontPage. I know that's not an answer you want to hear, but > FP is really not a good tool for building websites. If you're interested > in learning how to build websites, I recommend the book "Head First HTML > with CSS and XHTML" by Elisabeth and Eric Freeman. > > > - -- > Peter Harkins - http://push.cx - http://cambrianhouse.com > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: If you don't know what this is, it's OK to ignore it. > > iD8DBQFFDDDIa6PWv6+ALKoRAtQoAJ46whm0CxZL4uNTGfAjTeZIbTmioQCfUKBt > 8qJbnvVKcmJEPX6XXW8Rbgo= > =/Dfs > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > From esinclai at pobox.com Mon Sep 18 16:22:00 2006 From: esinclai at pobox.com (Eric Sinclair) Date: 18 Sep 2006 09:22:00 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] FW: [vacuum] Looking for Python help Message-ID: <3241416150.3224278@smtp.pobox.com> Anyone know Pythonic types in Ann Arbor who might be interested in the work outlined below? -Eric -----Original Message----- From: Louis Rosenfeld Date: Monday, Sep 18, 2006 8:13 am Subject: [vacuum] Looking for Python help Hi all; I'm looking for a local Python developer to help finish up a project (and possibly work on its future development). The work would support the launch of an innovative vertical mashup for a new publishing house. Work would start immediately. The technology: a web application (a simple Python MVC CGI wrapper) using CherryTemplate, SQLObject, some FormEncode, and MySQL. Currently, it's nearly engineering complete and has a few minor bugs left to address. The site is nearly ready to launch, but there are a few tweaks to make immediately. Going forward, the site has some new features to add as well as some bugs and tweaks to make after a public launch. New features would get added over the next few months. It could also use some refactoring to improve maintenance. A seasoned Python developer responsible for the work to date would be available for limited assistance. Please feel forward to share with anyone who might be interested; thanks! cheers -- Louis Rosenfeld :: http://louisrosenfeld.com Rosenfeld Media :: http://rosenfeldmedia.com __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | From bray at sent.com Mon Sep 18 18:59:58 2006 From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 11:59:58 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] FW: [vacuum] Looking for Python help In-Reply-To: <3241416150.3224278@smtp.pobox.com> References: <3241416150.3224278@smtp.pobox.com> Message-ID: I saw that Kevin Dangoor has a local Python user group in Michigan (repost from Python Announce). Below I reposted the last meeting notice. hth, bhr > From: "Kevin Dangoor" > This is the first anniversary meeting of the Michigan Python Users > Group! > > Thursday, September 7th at 7PM > > Our topics for this month include an SQLAlchemy Introduction by Mark > Ramm and Steve Kryskalla talking about two of the new Python 2.5 > features. > > The meeting will be held at the Arbor Networks office in Ann Arbor.: > > Arbor Networks > City Center Building > 220 East Huron, 6th Floor > Ann Arbor, MI > > Map: http://tinyurl.com/pt957 > > With the topics we have for this meeting, I would expect about 90 > minutes of the main topics. We often have free-flowing discussion > following the main topics, so feel free to come with other topics you > wish to discuss. > > See you there! > > Kevin > > -- > Kevin Dangoor > TurboGears / Zesty News From jquigley at chicagolug.org Wed Sep 20 08:48:29 2006 From: jquigley at chicagolug.org (John Quigley) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 01:48:29 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Chicago LUG: Meeting: September 23 Message-ID: <4510E43D.8000002@chicagolug.org> Hey Pythonistas: The Chicago GNU/Linux Users Group is staging their next meeting this coming Saturday, I hope some of you can make it out: Date: September 23, 2006 (2006-23-09) Time: 5:00p (1700 hrs) Place: 350 N LaSalle St. More: http://www.chicagolug.org/Meetings Presentations ============= * The Neuros OSD: Open Hardware Devices by: Joe Born, President of Neuros * MySQL database internals by: Mark Matthews, Developer on the MySQL Project Lightening Talks ================ * RockBox: Linux on Your iPod (by: Mike McCune) * Series: Linux Internals: The Source Tree (by: John Quigley) Further Information =================== * Homepage: http://www.chicagolug.org/ * Agenda: http://www.chicagolug.org/Agenda_2006-09-23 This is going to be an exciting meeting. We're teaming up with Neuros to organize a community to develop on, and hack at, this cool new embedded media device: * http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/drives/89ed/ * linuxdevice.com article going on-line later tonight, check it out If you're interested in helping with this project, please stop by. Joe will be explaining all about it during his presentation. Also of note is that we're working directly with Peter Brown and the FSF to organize Chicago's October 3rd "Day Against DRM." Lots more about this campaign during our meeting, and find more immediate information right here: * http://defectivebydesign.org/en/blog/announce_day_against_drm As always, this is a BYOB event, and we'll be running up to the Goose Island Brewery for some food and drinks afterwards. Look forward to seeing everyone there, and thanks again to all the people who have helped put this meeting together. Happy Hacking! The Chicago GNU/Linux Users Group email: lug at chicagolug.org phone: 312.351.3671 From tundra at tundraware.com Mon Sep 25 22:34:05 2006 From: tundra at tundraware.com (Tim Daneliuk) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 15:34:05 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] [ANN] tperimeter 1.110 Released And Available Message-ID: <45183D3D.1040608@tundraware.com> 'tperimeter' Version 1.110 is released and available at: http://www.tundraware.com/Software/tperimeter/ What's New ---------- This is the initial public release of 'tperimeter' What Is 'tperimeter'? --------------------- Have you ever been away from the office and needed, say, ssh access to your system? Ooops - you can't do that because in your zealous pursuit of security, you set your tcp wrappers to prevent outside access to all but a select group of hosts. Worse still, everywhere you go, your local IP address changes so there is no practical way to open up the wrappers for this situation. 'tperimeter' is a dynamic tcp wrapper control system that gives you (limited) remote control of your tcp wrapper configuration. It does this via a web interface that you've (hopefully) secured with https/SSL. You just log in, specify your current IP address and one of the services you want to access. 'tperimeter' will then briefly open a hole in your wrappers long enough to let you in. It then automatically closes the hole again. Voila! Remote access to your system, wherever you are. You get much of the facility of a VPN or so-called "port knocking" without most of the aggravation. As a side benefit, 'tperimeter' will also simplify management of your standard /etc/hosts.allow tcp wrapper control file. 'tperimeter' is written in python, shell script, and html. It is very small and easy to maintain. It was developed and tested on FreeBSD 4.x, and apache 1.3, but should run with very minor (or no) modification on most Unix-like systems like Linux or Mac OS X hosts. It comes complete with documentation in html, pdf, dvi, and Postscript formats. There is no licensing cost for individual non-commercial use. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tim Daneliuk tundra at tundraware.com PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/ From andrea.catarivas at sd3.com Tue Sep 26 00:02:05 2006 From: andrea.catarivas at sd3.com (Andrea Catarivas) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 17:02:05 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] C++/Python opportunity in Chicago Message-ID: <00c101c6e0ee$3f11b080$6a01a8c0@sd3corp.com> Hi, My name is Andrea Catarivas and I am technical recruiter with SD3 Corporation. I am currently recruiting for a C++ opportunity we have in Chicago with one of our clients in the financial industry. We are looking for someone with significant experience with C++ and Python programming on a Linux operating system. If you are interested and available I would like to speak with you at your earliest convenience. Thank you for your time, Andrea Catarivas, M.A. Senior Technical Recruiter SD3 Corporation One Park View Plaza Oakbrook Terrace, IL 60181 Direct phone/fax (630) 563-4013 www.sd3.com From carl at personnelware.com Wed Sep 27 22:56:01 2006 From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 15:56:01 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Ed Leafe of Dabo in Chicago. Message-ID: <451AE561.2000303@personnelware.com> Hi list, I'm Carl Karsten. Chicago resident (Niles really) that has just started taking Python seriously. for the last 10+ years I have been doing VFP, which is why I am on the chi-VFP users group meeting planning group. have some links: http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?wiki~CarlKarsten http://www.chicagofudg.com Python is very much like VFP, which is why for our (VFPgroup) November or December meeting (2nd Tuesday) we are looking at having Ed Leafe come out and show us some Python things, maybe http://dabodev.com. Here is an example of a talk Ed has done recently: http://foxforward.net/session.php?topic=16 I know he has shown Dabo at Pycon and there was some interest. Enough that I would think other Pythoners would be interested. Here are some examples of what he does http://dabodev.com/documentation - I thought one of his Pycon talks was there, but I can't find it now. I'll post if I find it. He has been doing talks for years, he is very good at it - power point slides, hand outs, downloads, etc. So the point of all this: it is a $350 plane ticket to get Ed out here. That is a bit steep for our group. In the past, we have done 1/2 seminars and charged $100 or so (we need to pay for the room too, and like give the speaker something for their time.) It worked out great when we had VFP speakers/topics, not so sure how well it would work for Ed. What kind of interest is there? Do you guys have access to a meeting room during the day? You are all welcome to come to the vfp meeting (I would only recomend the one Ed will be at:) - give me a heads up a head of time - the room only has about 20 chairs, it doesn't take much to overflow it. Carl K From tcp at uchicago.edu Thu Sep 28 19:17:19 2006 From: tcp at uchicago.edu (Ted Pollari) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 12:17:19 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Trac? Message-ID: <3C404991-9625-4C07-BB30-E4915FF668BF@uchicago.edu> So is anyone using Trac? Even better, does anyone have any longer term experience with the project? The research group I'm involved with is looking to possibly shift some functionality over to a Trac instance, probably in applications that the Trac folks never specifically thought of, but that's kinda what we do in my group =) Any thoughts? -- Ted Pollari Research Programmer Department of Health Studies The University of Chicago tcp at uchicago.edu 773.834.0559 From pfein at pobox.com Thu Sep 28 20:02:08 2006 From: pfein at pobox.com (Peter Fein) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 13:02:08 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Trac? In-Reply-To: <3C404991-9625-4C07-BB30-E4915FF668BF@uchicago.edu> References: <3C404991-9625-4C07-BB30-E4915FF668BF@uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <200609281302.09018.pfein@pobox.com> On Thursday 28 September 2006 12:17, Ted Pollari wrote: > So is anyone using Trac? Even better, does anyone have any longer > term experience with the project? > > The research group I'm involved with is looking to possibly shift > some functionality over to a Trac instance, probably in applications > that the Trac folks never specifically thought of, but that's kinda > what we do in my group =) > > Any thoughts? We've been using it for our inhouse development for almost 2 years (since 0.8, IIRC) and are *very* happy. The subversion integration is excellent, esp. when using a post-commit hook to comment/close tickets from svn log messages. Customization in the 0.9 series is a lot better - it's pretty easy to add/remove fields to fit your group's working methodology. The reporting system is pretty nice too. Built-in syntax highlighting's nice too. If you're using the SQLite backend, back up is almost trivial (and worth doing, since you'll soon find that all of your non-source-code IP is in your tickets/wiki). That's not to say it's not without it's flaws - if you drop your net connection in the middle of a submit, you can lose your changes, but that's more the browser's fault. The wiki markup language is a little awkward sometimes - list formatting is less-than-stellar, and the auto-wikification of CamelCase words tends to catch references to class names. One of my dev's prefers wikipedia-style markup generally, though I personally don't care much. There's no real support for blocking tickets on each other. It's a lot less featureful than Bugzilla in some ways, but hey, that's a good thing. ;) Oh, and it's python. I <3 Trac. --Pete -- Peter Fein pfein at pobox.com 773-575-0694 Jabber: peter.fein at gmail.com http://www.pobox.com/~pfein/ irc://irc.freenode.net/#chipy From chipy at holovaty.com Thu Sep 28 19:40:32 2006 From: chipy at holovaty.com (Adrian Holovaty) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 12:40:32 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Trac? In-Reply-To: <3C404991-9625-4C07-BB30-E4915FF668BF@uchicago.edu> References: <3C404991-9625-4C07-BB30-E4915FF668BF@uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <200609281240.33067.chipy@holovaty.com> Ted Pollari wrote: > So is anyone using Trac? Even better, does anyone have any longer > term experience with the project? We've been using Trac with the Django project since it was open-sourced in July 2005, and we used Trac internally for a couple of months before that. See http://code.djangoproject.com. Trac quite nicely integrates Subversion with the Web. My favorite bit is how you can set it up so that putting the message "Fixed #123" in the Subversion commit message will automatically close the ticket in the Trac ticket system. Adrian From garrett at mojave-corp.com Thu Sep 28 21:45:27 2006 From: garrett at mojave-corp.com (Garrett Smith) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 15:45:27 -0400 Subject: [Chicago] Trac? References: <3C404991-9625-4C07-BB30-E4915FF668BF@uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <2786A736E5926341A9AA6748CCDC11C202937D@justexch-node02.justexchange.net> I'm using Trac for managing projects other than software development projects. It's integration with Subversion rocks, but its wiki and ticketing system are outstanding in their own right. I look at Trac as providing two key services: content management (wiki and optionally Subversion) and work management (ticketing). Together, these cover a lot of ground -- i.e. there's a lot you can do that has nothing to do with software development. If you have specific ideas for how you're thinking of using Trac, post them and we can do some brainstorming on how it could be used. -----Original Message----- From: chicago-bounces at python.org on behalf of Ted Pollari Sent: Thu 9/28/2006 1:17 PM To: The Chicago Python Users Group Subject: [Chicago] Trac? So is anyone using Trac? Even better, does anyone have any longer term experience with the project? The research group I'm involved with is looking to possibly shift some functionality over to a Trac instance, probably in applications that the Trac folks never specifically thought of, but that's kinda what we do in my group =) Any thoughts? -- Ted Pollari Research Programmer Department of Health Studies The University of Chicago tcp at uchicago.edu 773.834.0559 _______________________________________________ Chicago mailing list Chicago at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/mailman/private/chicago/attachments/20060928/3339dffb/attachment.htm From ianb at colorstudy.com Thu Sep 28 21:48:16 2006 From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 14:48:16 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Trac? In-Reply-To: <3C404991-9625-4C07-BB30-E4915FF668BF@uchicago.edu> References: <3C404991-9625-4C07-BB30-E4915FF668BF@uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <451C2700.7020702@colorstudy.com> Ted Pollari wrote: > So is anyone using Trac? Even better, does anyone have any longer > term experience with the project? > > The research group I'm involved with is looking to possibly shift > some functionality over to a Trac instance, probably in applications > that the Trac folks never specifically thought of, but that's kinda > what we do in my group =) FWIW, Trac has a plugin system which they continue to extend, so making Trac work for what you are doing may not be too hard. Well, extending anything can be hard, but at least they are trying to make it easier. -- Ian Bicking | ianb at colorstudy.com | http://blog.ianbicking.org From garrett at mojave-corp.com Thu Sep 28 21:40:47 2006 From: garrett at mojave-corp.com (Garrett Smith) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 15:40:47 -0400 Subject: [Chicago] Trac? References: <3C404991-9625-4C07-BB30-E4915FF668BF@uchicago.edu> <200609281240.33067.chipy@holovaty.com> Message-ID: <2786A736E5926341A9AA6748CCDC11C202937E@justexch-node02.justexchange.net> Hmm...didn't know about the "Fixed #123" part -- sweet! -----Original Message----- From: chicago-bounces at python.org on behalf of Adrian Holovaty Sent: Thu 9/28/2006 1:40 PM To: The Chicago Python Users Group Subject: Re: [Chicago] Trac? Ted Pollari wrote: > So is anyone using Trac? Even better, does anyone have any longer > term experience with the project? We've been using Trac with the Django project since it was open-sourced in July 2005, and we used Trac internally for a couple of months before that. See http://code.djangoproject.com. Trac quite nicely integrates Subversion with the Web. My favorite bit is how you can set it up so that putting the message "Fixed #123" in the Subversion commit message will automatically close the ticket in the Trac ticket system. Adrian _______________________________________________ Chicago mailing list Chicago at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 2904 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/mailman/private/chicago/attachments/20060928/2c43fbe2/attachment.bin From tcp at uchicago.edu Thu Sep 28 22:01:43 2006 From: tcp at uchicago.edu (Ted Pollari) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 15:01:43 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Trac? In-Reply-To: <200609281240.33067.chipy@holovaty.com> References: <3C404991-9625-4C07-BB30-E4915FF668BF@uchicago.edu> <200609281240.33067.chipy@holovaty.com> Message-ID: On Sep 28, 2006, at 12:40 PM, Adrian Holovaty wrote: > We've been using Trac with the Django project since it was open- > sourced in > July 2005, and we used Trac internally for a couple of months > before that. > See http://code.djangoproject.com. > > Trac quite nicely integrates Subversion with the Web. My favorite > bit is how > you can set it up so that putting the message "Fixed #123" in the > Subversion > commit message will automatically close the ticket in the Trac > ticket system. On Sep 28, 2006, at 1:02 PM, Peter Fein wrote: > We've been using it for our inhouse development for almost 2 years > (since 0.8, > IIRC) and are *very* happy. The subversion integration is > excellent, esp. > when using a post-commit hook to comment/close tickets from svn log > messages. > Customization in the 0.9 series is a lot better - it's pretty easy to > add/remove fields to fit your group's working methodology. The > reporting > system is pretty nice too. Built-in syntax highlighting's nice > too. If > you're using the SQLite backend, back up is almost trivial (and > worth doing, > since you'll soon find that all of your non-source-code IP is in your > tickets/wiki). Thanks. I'm sold on trying it for our projects, or at least starting down that road. -ted -- Ted Pollari Research Programmer Department of Health Studies The University of Chicago tcp at uchicago.edu 773.834.0559 From varmaa at gmail.com Thu Sep 28 22:35:04 2006 From: varmaa at gmail.com (Atul Varma) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 15:35:04 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Trac? In-Reply-To: <3C404991-9625-4C07-BB30-E4915FF668BF@uchicago.edu> References: <3C404991-9625-4C07-BB30-E4915FF668BF@uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <361b27370609281335v6fd260cfg6d1739437b477712@mail.gmail.com> I'm also a big fan of Trac. My only complaint with it is that many of the administrative functions can only be accomplished through a line-oriented command interpreter (using Python's 'cmd' module) via a shell session rather than over the web interface, which is a little cumbersome. This is understandable given the relatively young age of the system, though. Aside from that, at work we've recently hooked up a number of our public web interfaces--customer support, tech support, bug reporting, and so forth--to automatically submit tickets into a single Trac instance. This required us to look into the source code, since there wasn't much documentation about it online, and I'm pleased to say that the source is eminently readable and the architecture is elegant and straightforward. Just import a few modules from the 'trac' package, create an Environment object that points to your trac installation, then make a Ticket object, add attachments to it by creating Attachment objects, and so forth. All in all, a pleasant experience. - Atul On 9/28/06, Ted Pollari wrote: > So is anyone using Trac? Even better, does anyone have any longer > term experience with the project? > > The research group I'm involved with is looking to possibly shift > some functionality over to a Trac instance, probably in applications > that the Trac folks never specifically thought of, but that's kinda > what we do in my group =) > > Any thoughts? > > -- > Ted Pollari > Research Programmer > Department of Health Studies > The University of Chicago > tcp at uchicago.edu > 773.834.0559 > > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > From rcriii at ramsdells.net Thu Sep 28 22:36:49 2006 From: rcriii at ramsdells.net (Robert Ramsdell) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 15:36:49 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Ed Leafe of Dabo in Chicago. In-Reply-To: <451AE561.2000303@personnelware.com> References: <451AE561.2000303@personnelware.com> Message-ID: <1159475809.20785.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2006-09-27 at 15:56 -0500, Carl Karsten wrote: > Hi list, Hi Carl. Since no-one else has replied, I thought I'd take a shot. > > I'm Carl Karsten. Chicago resident (Niles really) that has just started taking > Python seriously. for the last 10+ years I have been doing VFP, which is why I > am on the chi-VFP users group meeting planning group. have some links: > http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?wiki~CarlKarsten > http://www.chicagofudg.com > > Python is very much like VFP, which is why for our (VFPgroup) November or > December meeting (2nd Tuesday) we are looking at having Ed Leafe come out and > show us some Python things, maybe http://dabodev.com. I don't know anything about VFP, but we are always glad to have new people come out. Dabo sounds like it wants to do for desktop apps what Django and Turbogears do for webapps - automate as much as possible the database connection and interface-making. Always a good goal. > > Here is an example of a talk Ed has done recently: > http://foxforward.net/session.php?topic=16 > > I know he has shown Dabo at Pycon and there was some interest. Enough that I > would think other Pythoners would be interested. Here are some examples of what > he does http://dabodev.com/documentation - I thought one of his Pycon talks was > there, but I can't find it now. I'll post if I find it. He has been doing > talks for years, he is very good at it - power point slides, hand outs, > downloads, etc. > > So the point of all this: it is a $350 plane ticket to get Ed out here. That > is a bit steep for our group. In the past, we have done 1/2 seminars and > charged $100 or so (we need to pay for the room too, and like give the speaker > something for their time.) It worked out great when we had VFP speakers/topics, > not so sure how well it would work for Ed. Chipy doesn't have any money (we barely have a structure), so we probably couldn't help Ed financially as a group. For me a $100/person seminar seems steep. > > What kind of interest is there? Do you guys have access to a meeting room > during the day? No idea about meeting rooms during the day. We meet once-a-month on a thursday night, and usually line up a meeting space at the last minute. > > You are all welcome to come to the vfp meeting (I would only recomend the one Ed > will be at:) - give me a heads up a head of time - the room only has about 20 > chairs, it doesn't take much to overflow it. Likewise. If Ed is in town the second Thursday on the month, have him stop by ChiPy and we can probably guarantee him pizza and drinks afterwards. > > Carl K > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > From ianb at colorstudy.com Thu Sep 28 22:40:46 2006 From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 15:40:46 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Trac? In-Reply-To: <361b27370609281335v6fd260cfg6d1739437b477712@mail.gmail.com> References: <3C404991-9625-4C07-BB30-E4915FF668BF@uchicago.edu> <361b27370609281335v6fd260cfg6d1739437b477712@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <451C334E.80305@colorstudy.com> Atul Varma wrote: > I'm also a big fan of Trac. My only complaint with it is that many of > the administrative functions can only be accomplished through a > line-oriented command interpreter (using Python's 'cmd' module) via a > shell session rather than over the web interface, which is a little > cumbersome. This is understandable given the relatively young age of > the system, though. There's also a plugin for a web interface to the admin stuff. -- Ian Bicking | ianb at colorstudy.com | http://blog.ianbicking.org From tcp at uchicago.edu Thu Sep 28 23:45:29 2006 From: tcp at uchicago.edu (Ted Pollari) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 16:45:29 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Trac? In-Reply-To: <2786A736E5926341A9AA6748CCDC11C202937D@justexch-node02.justexchange.net> References: <3C404991-9625-4C07-BB30-E4915FF668BF@uchicago.edu> <2786A736E5926341A9AA6748CCDC11C202937D@justexch-node02.justexchange.net> Message-ID: <596D61BC-C6C5-4DCB-A2CD-05153DA63927@uchicago.edu> On Sep 28, 2006, at 2:45 PM, Garrett Smith wrote: > If you have specific ideas for how you're thinking of using Trac, > post them and we can do some brainstorming on how it could be used. In brief, one of the many things my group does is work with many collaborating researchers, analysts and data-managers in clinical and social science research and help them manage data and other research related tasks -- much of the time it's a byproduct of working more efficiently ourselves =) -- one of the central themes of our work of late has been examining and adapting tools from software development and the open-source software environment to the university research environment. One great example of this is getting researchers and bio-statisticians to do their data analyses more or less completely programatically and version both their datasets and their data management/manipulation code. As fundamental as these processes may be to many in the software development community, it's a completely new concept to many in clincal trials and social sciences, among many other fields -- the 'track changes' option in ms word is the closest that anyone seems to get to versioning and even that is used inconsistently and poorly (a straw- man, I admit as it can't be used well, IMHO ;) With my own experience in research psychology, I can say that solid data management processes are just not commonly taught in these fields -- and if they are, it's not done in any sort of formal manner. So, anyway, web-based collaborative tools are big and we're looking for ways to satisfy a number of needs without becomming full-blown plone developers or allowing the heavily sharepoint wielding MCSE types around here make a "solution" for the research groups with which we're affiliated. So, anyway, trac's wiki functionality, skinability and interconnection with SVN have been making it look like a good option for us to move some of our projects to rather than some of the home-grown zope based options we've been using for a few years, which need updating and improvement. So, yeah, that's the gist of why I asked. -Ted -- Ted Pollari Research Programmer Department of Health Studies The University of Chicago tcp at uchicago.edu 773.834.0559 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/mailman/private/chicago/attachments/20060928/fc6ad51a/attachment.html From carl at personnelware.com Fri Sep 29 06:05:31 2006 From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 23:05:31 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Ed Leafe of Dabo in Chicago. In-Reply-To: <1159475809.20785.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <451AE561.2000303@personnelware.com> <1159475809.20785.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <451C9B8B.306@personnelware.com> > > I don't know anything about VFP, but we are always glad to have new > people come out. You don't need to. VFP could have been a top shelf tool, but for some reason MS didn't make it happen, and > > Dabo sounds like it wants to do for desktop apps what Django and > Turbogears do for webapps - automate as much as possible the database > connection and interface-making. Always a good goal. Sounds about right. > >> Here is an example of a talk Ed has done recently: >> http://foxforward.net/session.php?topic=16 >> >> I know he has shown Dabo at Pycon and there was some interest. Enough that I >> would think other Pythoners would be interested. Here are some examples of what >> he does http://dabodev.com/documentation - I thought one of his Pycon talks was >> there, but I can't find it now. I'll post if I find it. He has been doing >> talks for years, he is very good at it - power point slides, hand outs, >> downloads, etc. >> >> So the point of all this: it is a $350 plane ticket to get Ed out here. That >> is a bit steep for our group. In the past, we have done 1/2 seminars and >> charged $100 or so (we need to pay for the room too, and like give the speaker >> something for their time.) It worked out great when we had VFP speakers/topics, >> not so sure how well it would work for Ed. > > Chipy doesn't have any money (we barely have a structure), so we > probably couldn't help Ed financially as a group. For me a $100/person > seminar seems steep. > >> What kind of interest is there? Do you guys have access to a meeting room >> during the day? > > No idea about meeting rooms during the day. We meet once-a-month on a > thursday night, and usually line up a meeting space at the last minute. > >> You are all welcome to come to the vfp meeting (I would only recomend the one Ed >> will be at:) - give me a heads up a head of time - the room only has about 20 >> chairs, it doesn't take much to overflow it. > > Likewise. If Ed is in town the second Thursday on the month, have him > stop by ChiPy and we can probably guarantee him pizza and drinks > afterwards. I tried to get him to stick around for Thurs, no luck, he can't spend that many days away. The good news is the VFP group is going to cover the flight, and I have a guest room and a box of corn flakes :) So he will be here some Tuesday. I am going to see if can get him to fly in early and get our meeting room for the whole afternoon/evening. It isn't the slick classroom style, but free is good. How many chipy people would be able to make it down town in the afternoon? Carl From garrett at mojave-corp.com Sat Sep 30 15:30:26 2006 From: garrett at mojave-corp.com (Garrett Smith) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 09:30:26 -0400 Subject: [Chicago] Trac? In-Reply-To: <596D61BC-C6C5-4DCB-A2CD-05153DA63927@uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <2786A736E5926341A9AA6748CCDC11C23DD0@justexch-node02.justexchange.net> This is an interesting thread, at least to me. I've long been interested in applying OSS development patterns to more general cases -- business management and research being good examples. I think there's a new, compelling theory of collaboration and information management that's largely unarticulated (at least formally) that we can derive from the astounding success of various OSS initiatives. Folks like the signatories of the Agile Manifesto (http://agilemanifesto.org) have written from the stand point of software development, but I think this stuff applies well to more general cases. (Okay, I just lumped OSS and Agile together without so much as a hand wave -- but these two forces routinely bump into one another.) Some of the principles that I see applying well to collaboration in general: * Empower individuals, or at least individual workgroups * Work hard to keep things simple * Provide safety nets for experimentation -- and in particular, mistakes * Make change transparent In my experience, these four items are very rarely present in most organizations. In fact, the opposite of each generally holds. On the other hand, all four are thoroughly baked into most OSS projects (maybe not the second point so much...this is more common in Python OSS projects :-) Wikis and source management systems are key technical enablers for each point: * Wikis allow anyone to change anything. (Insecure managers: dont knock it 'til you try it!) * As you pointed out SharePoint is a complex beast -- complex to implement and maintain. Wikis are much simpler and get the job done. (KISS helps beat down people's tendency to become too clever.) * Wikis and source control systems are experts in backing out or amending changes. Be bold and plow ahead knowing full well that what you add today can be amended at any time. How empowering is that! * Wikis and source control systems are expert in tracking change. For those who have experienced this degree of transparency, it's a powerful social dynamic that simultaneously empowers people (there's no centralized information gatekeeper) and keeps contributors accountable (everyone can see what everyone does). So, without making this reply any longer, I think you're on the exact right track, or Trac. One other point, then I'll be done :-) My teams have started using Subversion for managing all document types -- e.g. Word, Excel, PowerPoint, etc. -- in non software development projects. For example, we just finished up a large proposal that used lots of misc Office documents -- and all are under source control. GUI clients like TortoiseSVN let non-technical users update and check in changes with minimal training. Also, I was ''very'' pleased to learn that Word supports diffing -- e.g. you can double click a revision of a Word document in TortoiseSVN and view the changes in Word's "track changes" mode. Sweeet. ________________________________ From: chicago-bounces at python.org [mailto:chicago-bounces at python.org] On Behalf Of Ted Pollari Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 4:45 PM To: The Chicago Python Users Group Subject: Re: [Chicago] Trac? On Sep 28, 2006, at 2:45 PM, Garrett Smith wrote: If you have specific ideas for how you're thinking of using Trac, post them and we can do some brainstorming on how it could be used. In brief, one of the many things my group does is work with many collaborating researchers, analysts and data-managers in clinical and social science research and help them manage data and other research related tasks -- much of the time it's a byproduct of working more efficiently ourselves =) -- one of the central themes of our work of late has been examining and adapting tools from software development and the open-source software environment to the university research environment. One great example of this is getting researchers and bio-statisticians to do their data analyses more or less completely programatically and version both their datasets and their data management/manipulation code. As fundamental as these processes may be to many in the software development community, it's a completely new concept to many in clincal trials and social sciences, among many other fields -- the 'track changes' option in ms word is the closest that anyone seems to get to versioning and even that is used inconsistently and poorly (a straw-man, I admit as it can't be used well, IMHO ;) With my own experience in research psychology, I can say that solid data management processes are just not commonly taught in these fields -- and if they are, it's not done in any sort of formal manner. So, anyway, web-based collaborative tools are big and we're looking for ways to satisfy a number of needs without becomming full-blown plone developers or allowing the heavily sharepoint wielding MCSE types around here make a "solution" for the research groups with which we're affiliated. So, anyway, trac's wiki functionality, skinability and interconnection with SVN have been making it look like a good option for us to move some of our projects to rather than some of the home-grown zope based options we've been using for a few years, which need updating and improvement. So, yeah, that's the gist of why I asked. -Ted -- Ted Pollari Research Programmer Department of Health Studies The University of Chicago tcp at uchicago.edu 773.834.0559