From bray at sent.com  Wed Mar  1 18:40:36 2006
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 11:40:36 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChipyChipySprint
Message-ID: <48443902-EAEA-4174-805E-8F2D5E24E740@sent.com>

All:

I have started a wiki page for the ChipyChipySprint and Python Class  
(at the same time, use the same form, just mark Student). If you  
think you might be able to make it, sign up here:

    http://chipy.org/ChipyChipySprint

This is all tentative so far. We (I) still have to check with the  
library and we all should do some planning prior to showing up to the  
Sprint.

Spread the word. Fill in details on the wiki. Thanks!

-- bhr
http://brianray.chipy.org
irc://irc.freenode.net/chipy


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20060301/bad72a70/attachment.htm 

From ianb at colorstudy.com  Mon Mar  6 17:21:55 2006
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 10:21:55 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] [Fwd: Gentoo and Python job.]
Message-ID: <440C61A3.3060500@colorstudy.com>

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [UFO Chicago] Gentoo and Python job.
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 15:50:18 +0000
From: m.mccune at comcast.net

I hope posting job notices is OK. If not, let me know and I won't do it 
again.

I know of a company in Highland Park (near the Metra Station) that is 
looking for a Web developer experienced with Gentoo, Python, MySQL, 
Windows 2000, classic ASP and MS SQL.

This is a hard position to fill because few people have a lot of 
experience with Linux and Windows technologies. If you know anybody that 
might fit the bill, send them my way.

--
Visit my home page
http://www.sbscomputer.com

From mtobis at gmail.com  Mon Mar  6 18:14:00 2006
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:14:00 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] That time again...
Message-ID: <c3aa55550603060914t7da387cal61120f29165289ad@mail.gmail.com>

7 PM Thursday the 10th

Where? What?

I missed the last meeting. Did a next venue or topic get discussed?

I believe I can host at the Monadnock this week if that's of interest.

mt

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Mon Mar  6 18:19:24 2006
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:19:24 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] That time again...
In-Reply-To: <c3aa55550603060914t7da387cal61120f29165289ad@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c3aa55550603060914t7da387cal61120f29165289ad@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0603060919k3bf3fed9oc4043efe4186af81@mail.gmail.com>

On 3/6/06, Michael Tobis <mtobis at gmail.com> wrote:
> 7 PM Thursday the 10th
>
> Where? What?

Sadly, I am out this week.  Sorry dudes.  I know everyone will be sad.
 Don't cry though, I'll be back!  I promise!

> I missed the last meeting. Did a next venue or topic get discussed?

A gentleman named Garret (not sure of last name) offered to present
Doctest for March.  Garret, you out there?

Chris

From ianb at colorstudy.com  Mon Mar  6 18:24:48 2006
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 11:24:48 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] That time again...
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0603060919k3bf3fed9oc4043efe4186af81@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c3aa55550603060914t7da387cal61120f29165289ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<3096c19d0603060919k3bf3fed9oc4043efe4186af81@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <440C7060.7040708@colorstudy.com>

Chris McAvoy wrote:
>>I missed the last meeting. Did a next venue or topic get discussed?
> 
> 
> A gentleman named Garret (not sure of last name) offered to present
> Doctest for March.  Garret, you out there?

Was there an SCons talk proposed as well?


-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Mon Mar  6 18:30:29 2006
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:30:29 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] That time again...
In-Reply-To: <440C7060.7040708@colorstudy.com>
References: <c3aa55550603060914t7da387cal61120f29165289ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<3096c19d0603060919k3bf3fed9oc4043efe4186af81@mail.gmail.com>
	<440C7060.7040708@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0603060930t5cc1d458r42043287a37bfbd7@mail.gmail.com>

On 3/6/06, Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
> Was there an SCons talk proposed as well?

Yes...on the list.  The Garret proposal was verbal.  There should be
time to do both (I think).

Chris

From garrett at mojave-corp.com  Mon Mar  6 19:32:51 2006
From: garrett at mojave-corp.com (Garrett Smith)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:32:51 -0700
Subject: [Chicago] That time again...
References: <c3aa55550603060914t7da387cal61120f29165289ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<3096c19d0603060919k3bf3fed9oc4043efe4186af81@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <14B24D513038494CB556EFD4BD36A81201512F63@snshbea105.4smartphone.snx>

Btw, my calendar says Thursday is the 9th, not the 10th.

Garrett


-----Original Message-----
From: chicago-bounces at python.org on behalf of Chris McAvoy
Sent: Mon 3/6/2006 10:19 AM
To: The Chicago Python Users Group
Subject: Re: [Chicago] That time again...
 
On 3/6/06, Michael Tobis <mtobis at gmail.com> wrote:
> 7 PM Thursday the 10th
>
> Where? What?

Sadly, I am out this week.  Sorry dudes.  I know everyone will be sad.
 Don't cry though, I'll be back!  I promise!

> I missed the last meeting. Did a next venue or topic get discussed?

A gentleman named Garret (not sure of last name) offered to present
Doctest for March.  Garret, you out there?

Chris
_______________________________________________
Chicago mailing list
Chicago at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20060306/94238f78/attachment.htm 

From garrett at mojave-corp.com  Mon Mar  6 19:30:19 2006
From: garrett at mojave-corp.com (Garrett Smith)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:30:19 -0700
Subject: [Chicago] That time again...
References: <c3aa55550603060914t7da387cal61120f29165289ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<3096c19d0603060919k3bf3fed9oc4043efe4186af81@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <14B24D513038494CB556EFD4BD36A81201512F62@snshbea105.4smartphone.snx>

Yeah -- I'm here, shadows mostly ;-)

I'm still game for a doctest presentation.

Garrett


-----Original Message-----
From: chicago-bounces at python.org on behalf of Chris McAvoy
Sent: Mon 3/6/2006 10:19 AM
To: The Chicago Python Users Group
Subject: Re: [Chicago] That time again...
 
On 3/6/06, Michael Tobis <mtobis at gmail.com> wrote:
> 7 PM Thursday the 10th
>
> Where? What?

Sadly, I am out this week.  Sorry dudes.  I know everyone will be sad.
 Don't cry though, I'll be back!  I promise!

> I missed the last meeting. Did a next venue or topic get discussed?

A gentleman named Garret (not sure of last name) offered to present
Doctest for March.  Garret, you out there?

Chris
_______________________________________________
Chicago mailing list
Chicago at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20060306/e48999a3/attachment.html 

From PRobare at chx.com  Mon Mar  6 19:55:35 2006
From: PRobare at chx.com (Robare, Phil)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 12:55:35 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] That time again...
Message-ID: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB6AB@MX3.chx.com>

And will anyone volunteer to do a newbies presentation? 

-----Original Message-----
From: chicago-bounces at python.org [mailto:chicago-bounces at python.org] On
Behalf Of Chris McAvoy
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 11:30 AM
To: The Chicago Python Users Group
Subject: Re: [Chicago] That time again...

On 3/6/06, Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
> Was there an SCons talk proposed as well?

Yes...on the list.  The Garret proposal was verbal.  There should be
time to do both (I think).

Chris
_______________________________________________
Chicago mailing list
Chicago at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From bray at sent.com  Mon Mar  6 18:33:02 2006
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:33:02 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChipyChipySprint
In-Reply-To: <48443902-EAEA-4174-805E-8F2D5E24E740@sent.com>
References: <48443902-EAEA-4174-805E-8F2D5E24E740@sent.com>
Message-ID: <1840BB38-79FA-44DC-854E-8629C6854F59@sent.com>

I stopped by the Lincoln Park library and the big conference room is  
already booked for this day.

Does anybody have suggestions on any cool places to hold this  
Sprint?  WIFI, public transit accessibility, and a private room are  
the only requirements.

I will keep looking.

Regards,

Brian Ray


From varmaa at gmail.com  Mon Mar  6 20:49:35 2006
From: varmaa at gmail.com (Atul Varma)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 13:49:35 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] That time again...
In-Reply-To: <440C7060.7040708@colorstudy.com>
References: <c3aa55550603060914t7da387cal61120f29165289ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<3096c19d0603060919k3bf3fed9oc4043efe4186af81@mail.gmail.com>
	<440C7060.7040708@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <361b27370603061149i7a902640j664281aed7da2955@mail.gmail.com>

I'd still like to give an SCons presentation, but the past two weeks
have been really busy and I haven't had time to prepare much...  I
could do something quick and dirty on Thursday, but I'd much rather
prepare a more interesting and thorough presentation for April's
meeting.  Is that acceptable?

- Atul

On 3/6/06, Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
> Chris McAvoy wrote:
> >>I missed the last meeting. Did a next venue or topic get discussed?
> >
> >
> > A gentleman named Garret (not sure of last name) offered to present
> > Doctest for March.  Garret, you out there?
>
> Was there an SCons talk proposed as well?
>
>
> --
> Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From varmaa at gmail.com  Mon Mar  6 20:54:04 2006
From: varmaa at gmail.com (Atul Varma)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 13:54:04 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChipyChipySprint
In-Reply-To: <1840BB38-79FA-44DC-854E-8629C6854F59@sent.com>
References: <48443902-EAEA-4174-805E-8F2D5E24E740@sent.com>
	<1840BB38-79FA-44DC-854E-8629C6854F59@sent.com>
Message-ID: <361b27370603061154v178e696we9bcda03bd33bd4d@mail.gmail.com>

The Sulzer Regional Library near Lincoln Square has a nice
mini-auditorium of sorts... There aren't too many tables there so I'm
not sure how useful it'd be for the Sprint, but I believe the
library's Wi-Fi extends into that room and it's got great public
transit accessibility.

- Atul

On 3/6/06, Brian Ray <bray at sent.com> wrote:
> I stopped by the Lincoln Park library and the big conference room is
> already booked for this day.
>
> Does anybody have suggestions on any cool places to hold this
> Sprint?  WIFI, public transit accessibility, and a private room are
> the only requirements.
>
> I will keep looking.
>
> Regards,
>
> Brian Ray
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From mtobis at gmail.com  Mon Mar  6 20:51:04 2006
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 13:51:04 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] That time again...
In-Reply-To: <14B24D513038494CB556EFD4BD36A81201512F63@snshbea105.4smartphone.snx>
References: <c3aa55550603060914t7da387cal61120f29165289ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<3096c19d0603060919k3bf3fed9oc4043efe4186af81@mail.gmail.com>
	<14B24D513038494CB556EFD4BD36A81201512F63@snshbea105.4smartphone.snx>
Message-ID: <c3aa55550603061151p3dead578n9c8a8ec961d248b4@mail.gmail.com>

So does mine. You must have snuck in and fixed it.

mt

On 3/6/06, Garrett Smith <garrett at mojave-corp.com> wrote:
>
>
> Btw, my calendar says Thursday is the 9th, not the 10th.
>
>  Garrett

From bray at sent.com  Mon Mar  6 21:03:47 2006
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 14:03:47 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChipyChipySprint
In-Reply-To: <361b27370603061154v178e696we9bcda03bd33bd4d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <48443902-EAEA-4174-805E-8F2D5E24E740@sent.com>
	<1840BB38-79FA-44DC-854E-8629C6854F59@sent.com>
	<361b27370603061154v178e696we9bcda03bd33bd4d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D5FAA54F-1309-40C4-8A50-51612570DA08@sent.com>


On Mar 6, 2006, at 1:54 PM, Atul Varma wrote:

> The Sulzer Regional Library near Lincoln Square has a nice
> mini-auditorium of sorts... There aren't too many tables there so I'm
> not sure how useful it'd be for the Sprint, but I believe the
> library's Wi-Fi extends into that room and it's got great public
> transit accessibility.

Yes, its a nice location.  I wonder if their booked or not on the  
18th. Could you please check for us and book it for all day if it's  
open?

-- bhr
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20060306/03180339/attachment.htm 

From ianb at colorstudy.com  Mon Mar  6 21:07:09 2006
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 14:07:09 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChipyChipySprint
In-Reply-To: <1840BB38-79FA-44DC-854E-8629C6854F59@sent.com>
References: <48443902-EAEA-4174-805E-8F2D5E24E740@sent.com>
	<1840BB38-79FA-44DC-854E-8629C6854F59@sent.com>
Message-ID: <440C966D.90403@colorstudy.com>

Brian Ray wrote:
> I stopped by the Lincoln Park library and the big conference room is  
> already booked for this day.
> 
> Does anybody have suggestions on any cool places to hold this  
> Sprint?  WIFI, public transit accessibility, and a private room are  
> the only requirements.

I think it would be fine at Imaginary Landscape -- mostly I need to 
check if I'll be able to come (or if one of the other guys here can 
come).  Pluses: food okay, wired networking (we can set up wireless too, 
but wired backup is nice).  Minuses: public transportation isn't great 
(1/2-1 mile walk unless you take the bus, I think).  Not really big 
enough or seperate enough spaces for a class and sprints at the same 
time, unless we expand out into other parts of the office.

With the Django sprint, the biggest concern I see is that people have a 
database set up or somehow available.  I remember spending a lot of 
pointless time trying to get databases set up on laptops at the last 
sprint.  I wonder if this: http://www.tnr.cc/pypg.html (or this: 
http://barryp.org/software/bpgsql) plus a database available over the 
wire would be helpful?  Database access over RPC would also be cool.

-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org

From garrett at mojave-corp.com  Mon Mar  6 21:18:56 2006
From: garrett at mojave-corp.com (Garrett Smith)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 14:18:56 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] That time again...
Message-ID: <SNSHFEA102HkidcDjoY00000122@mail1.4smartphone.net>

I can cast the first part of my presentation for newbies. Arguably, it's the first thing a good Python programmer should know :-)

Garrett

-----Original Message-----
From: "Robare, Phil" <PRobare at chx.com>
To: "The Chicago Python Users Group" <chicago at python.org>
Sent: 3/6/06 12:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Chicago] That time again...

And will anyone volunteer to do a newbies presentation? 

-----Original Message-----
From: chicago-bounces at python.org [mailto:chicago-bounces at python.org] On
Behalf Of Chris McAvoy
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 11:30 AM
To: The Chicago Python Users Group
Subject: Re: [Chicago] That time again...

On 3/6/06, Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
> Was there an SCons talk proposed as well?

Yes...on the list.  The Garret proposal was verbal.  There should be
time to do both (I think).

Chris
_______________________________________________
Chicago mailing list
Chicago at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
_______________________________________________
Chicago mailing list
Chicago at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Mon Mar  6 21:19:26 2006
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 14:19:26 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] That time again...
In-Reply-To: <361b27370603061149i7a902640j664281aed7da2955@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c3aa55550603060914t7da387cal61120f29165289ad@mail.gmail.com>	<3096c19d0603060919k3bf3fed9oc4043efe4186af81@mail.gmail.com>	<440C7060.7040708@colorstudy.com>
	<361b27370603061149i7a902640j664281aed7da2955@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <440C994E.6010607@colorstudy.com>

Atul Varma wrote:
> I'd still like to give an SCons presentation, but the past two weeks
> have been really busy and I haven't had time to prepare much...  I
> could do something quick and dirty on Thursday, but I'd much rather
> prepare a more interesting and thorough presentation for April's
> meeting.  Is that acceptable?

I think if there's a doctest presentation, and some newbie presentation, 
we should be good.  Brant still owes us a Civ IV presentation too.  Does 
anyone want to give a newbie presentation?  Like covering a standard 
module.  It might be fun to rip off Guido's PyCon slides too, and talk 
about Python 2.5.  (Fun as in easy to prepare)

-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org

From mtobis at gmail.com  Mon Mar  6 21:21:22 2006
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 14:21:22 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python as a First Language (Newbie) Group the 25th
Message-ID: <c3aa55550603061221l3109a506v73d75b5c764fca38@mail.gmail.com>

I think we should separate the newbie day from the sprint. There
really isn't much benefit and a fair amount of drawback to mixing them
up.

And I'd like another week to promote it and plan it, so tentatively
that will happen on the 25th.

mt

From bray at sent.com  Mon Mar  6 21:23:52 2006
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 14:23:52 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChipyChipySprint
In-Reply-To: <440C966D.90403@colorstudy.com>
References: <48443902-EAEA-4174-805E-8F2D5E24E740@sent.com>
	<1840BB38-79FA-44DC-854E-8629C6854F59@sent.com>
	<440C966D.90403@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <8AB4CE38-5F36-44BD-8217-B2AE596B8073@sent.com>


On Mar 6, 2006, at 2:07 PM, Ian Bicking wrote:

> I think it would be fine at Imaginary Landscape -- mostly I need to
> check if I'll be able to come (or if one of the other guys here can
> come).  Pluses: food okay, wired networking (we can set up wireless  
> too,
> but wired backup is nice).  Minuses: public transportation isn't great
> (1/2-1 mile walk unless you take the bus, I think).  Not really big
> enough or seperate enough spaces for a class and sprints at the same
> time, unless we expand out into other parts of the office.

Thanks Ian!

Can we hold the class in the conference room and the Sprint in the  
entrance area... or something in this regards?

>
> With the Django sprint, the biggest concern I see is that people  
> have a
> database set up or somehow available.  I remember spending a lot of
> pointless time trying to get databases set up on laptops at the last
> sprint.  I wonder if this: http://www.tnr.cc/pypg.html (or this:
> http://barryp.org/software/bpgsql) plus a database available over the
> wire would be helpful?  Database access over RPC would also be cool.

I certainly agree we should have some things set up before we start  
this time.hmmm, come to think of it i guess there are a lot of ways  
to approach this. We needed to throw out some more ideas and come to  
a census.

I would not object to having everything setup on a remote server and  
we just tunnel in. Even the static files could be setup over DAV.  
This way, not much is needed to be done on each persons machine. Was  
this what we tried last time. What went wrong? i can't recall.


-- bhr
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20060306/9cc322f9/attachment.html 

From bray at sent.com  Mon Mar  6 21:27:30 2006
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 14:27:30 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python as a First Language (Newbie) Group the 25th
In-Reply-To: <c3aa55550603061221l3109a506v73d75b5c764fca38@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c3aa55550603061221l3109a506v73d75b5c764fca38@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <96ED2A37-E8CE-4262-8339-23A08D731664@sent.com>


On Mar 6, 2006, at 2:21 PM, Michael Tobis wrote:
>
>
> And I'd like another week to promote it and plan it, so tentatively
> that will happen on the 25th.

Ok, as you wish. Maybe make a separate wiki page for this event.

I agree I was complicating things trying to intermix the two.

-- bhr
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20060306/6af00937/attachment.htm 

From aharrin at luc.edu  Mon Mar  6 21:26:03 2006
From: aharrin at luc.edu (Andrew Harrington)
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 14:26:03 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Location of ChiPy Thursday
Message-ID: <440C9ADB.70902@luc.edu>

Hi, I'm new to ChiPy.
Nobody answered Michael's first question about this month:  where Thursday?

Andy Harrington


- - - - - - - - 

7 PM Thursday the 10th

Where? What?

I missed the last meeting. Did a next venue or topic get discussed?

I believe I can host at the Monadnock this week if that's of interest.

mt

-- 
  Andrew N. Harrington
  Computer Science Department      Undergraduate Program Director
  Loyola University Chicago        http://www.cs.luc.edu/~anh
  512B Lewis Towers (office)       Office Phone: 312-915-7982
  Snail mail to Lewis Towers 416   Dept. Fax:    312-915-7998
  820 North Michigan Avenue        aharrin at luc.edu
  Chicago, Illinois 60611          


From bray at sent.com  Mon Mar  6 21:34:33 2006
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 14:34:33 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Location of ChiPy Thursday
In-Reply-To: <440C9ADB.70902@luc.edu>
References: <440C9ADB.70902@luc.edu>
Message-ID: <28DC69E6-C31F-4FD4-B92A-195E3396FF40@sent.com>


On Mar 6, 2006, at 2:26 PM, Andrew Harrington wrote:

> Nobody answered Michael's first question about this month:  where  
> Thursday?

I think the Monadnock Building is perfect in every way.  Unless there  
is an earthquake... but that is a different topic.

Unless there are objections, let's meet there.


-- bhr

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20060306/36ee8ae6/attachment.htm 

From jbalint at gmail.com  Mon Mar  6 21:33:32 2006
From: jbalint at gmail.com (Jess Balint)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 15:33:32 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] ChipyChipySprint
In-Reply-To: <8AB4CE38-5F36-44BD-8217-B2AE596B8073@sent.com>
Message-ID: <440c9c9d.79705890.6663.ffffc843@mx.gmail.com>

I would volunteer to run a database server on my laptop and give everybody
their own personal database (for the day).

 

Jess

 

  _____  

From: chicago-bounces at python.org [mailto:chicago-bounces at python.org] On
Behalf Of Brian Ray
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 3:24 PM
To: The Chicago Python Users Group
Subject: Re: [Chicago] ChipyChipySprint

 

 

On Mar 6, 2006, at 2:07 PM, Ian Bicking wrote:





I think it would be fine at Imaginary Landscape -- mostly I need to 

check if I'll be able to come (or if one of the other guys here can 

come). Pluses: food okay, wired networking (we can set up wireless too, 

but wired backup is nice). Minuses: public transportation isn't great 

(1/2-1 mile walk unless you take the bus, I think). Not really big 

enough or seperate enough spaces for a class and sprints at the same 

time, unless we expand out into other parts of the office.

 

Thanks Ian!

 

Can we hold the class in the conference room and the Sprint in the entrance
area... or something in this regards?





 

With the Django sprint, the biggest concern I see is that people have a 

database set up or somehow available. I remember spending a lot of 

pointless time trying to get databases set up on laptops at the last 

sprint. I wonder if this: http://www.tnr.cc/pypg.html (or this: 

http://barryp.org/software/bpgsql) plus a database available over the 

wire would be helpful? Database access over RPC would also be cool.

 

I certainly agree we should have some things set up before we start this
time.hmmm, come to think of it i guess there are a lot of ways to approach
this. We needed to throw out some more ideas and come to a census.

 

I would not object to having everything setup on a remote server and we just
tunnel in. Even the static files could be setup over DAV. This way, not much
is needed to be done on each persons machine. Was this what we tried last
time. What went wrong? i can't recall.

 

 

-- bhr

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20060306/8fe63eba/attachment.html 

From ianb at colorstudy.com  Mon Mar  6 21:34:12 2006
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 14:34:12 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python as a First Language (Newbie) Group the 25th
In-Reply-To: <c3aa55550603061221l3109a506v73d75b5c764fca38@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c3aa55550603061221l3109a506v73d75b5c764fca38@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <440C9CC4.8030407@colorstudy.com>

Michael Tobis wrote:
> I think we should separate the newbie day from the sprint. There
> really isn't much benefit and a fair amount of drawback to mixing them
> up.

I kind of liked the idea of being able to wander between the two, and it 
seemed like it would make it easier for the people leading the newbie 
day.  But it does simplify things some if they are separate.

-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org

From aharrin at luc.edu  Tue Mar  7 00:17:41 2006
From: aharrin at luc.edu (Andrew Harrington)
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 17:17:41 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Where in Monadnock
Message-ID: <440CC315.9050308@luc.edu>

Thanks, please give first-timer instructions for where in the Monadnock building.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 

I think the Monadnock Building is perfect in every way.  Unless there  
is an earthquake... but that is a different topic.

Unless there are objections, let's meet there.


-- bhr

-- 
  Andrew N. Harrington
  Computer Science Department      Undergraduate Program Director
  Loyola University Chicago        http://www.cs.luc.edu/~anh
  512B Lewis Towers (office)       Office Phone: 312-915-7982
  Snail mail to Lewis Towers 416   Dept. Fax:    312-915-7998
  820 North Michigan Avenue        aharrin at luc.edu
  Chicago, Illinois 60611          


From mtobis at gmail.com  Tue Mar  7 00:55:30 2006
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 17:55:30 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Where in Monadnock
In-Reply-To: <440CC315.9050308@luc.edu>
References: <440CC315.9050308@luc.edu>
Message-ID: <c3aa55550603061555i27ce6338x82e1f6ab841629e5@mail.gmail.com>

Assuming I get confirmation from the building office, room 826, 53 W
Jackson at Dearborn. I'll see if I can make it official in the
morning.

mt

On 3/6/06, Andrew Harrington <aharrin at luc.edu> wrote:
> Thanks, please give first-timer instructions for where in the Monadnock building.
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
> I think the Monadnock Building is perfect in every way.  Unless there
> is an earthquake... but that is a different topic.
>
> Unless there are objections, let's meet there.
>
>
> -- bhr
>
> --
>   Andrew N. Harrington
>   Computer Science Department      Undergraduate Program Director
>   Loyola University Chicago        http://www.cs.luc.edu/~anh
>   512B Lewis Towers (office)       Office Phone: 312-915-7982
>   Snail mail to Lewis Towers 416   Dept. Fax:    312-915-7998
>   820 North Michigan Avenue        aharrin at luc.edu
>   Chicago, Illinois 60611
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From maney at two14.net  Tue Mar  7 04:17:05 2006
From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 21:17:05 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] PyCon report
Message-ID: <20060307031705.GA1977@furrr.two14.net>


The March edition of Linux Gazette http://linuxgazette.net/124/index.html
includes Mike Orr's report on PyCon.  I read about half of it earlier,
and I like the idea that Python 3000 may occur during our lifetimes. 
But how come I've never heard of Dabo before?  And, of course, much
more...

In other news, Coverity's source code examination gave Python's source
code pretty good marks, though as someone pointed out, ethereal, which
has been the subject of quite a few security alerts recently, had one
of the lowest defect rates reported.  So who knows what it really
means?  http://lwn.net/Articles/174426

-- 
Some kinds of waste really are disgusting. SUVs, for example,
would arguably be gross even if they ran on a fuel which would
never run out and generated no pollution. SUVs are gross because
they're the solution to a gross problem. (How to make minivans
look more masculine.)  -- Paul Graham


From mtobis at gmail.com  Tue Mar  7 18:57:09 2006
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 11:57:09 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] RSVP ChiPy at Monadnock 7 PM Thursday
Message-ID: <c3aa55550603070957n3dc9f04ei8ef8b85312eca40d@mail.gmail.com>

That's 53 W Jackson Blvd, room 826.

Here's a map:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=53+W+Jackson+Blvd,+Chicago,+IL

Amusingly, on the displayed scale the block on Jackson between Federal
and Dearborn is infinitesimal, but that is where we intend to have our
meeting nevertheless. Please try to reduce your dimensionality.  :o)

It's right on the blue line, and two blocks from the red line, and
walking distance to all of the Metra termini.

Cheap parking is a few blocks away at State and Harrison, more
expensive parking is immediately adjacent on Federal between Jackson
and Van Buren. Take the Eisenhower all the way in until it turns into
Congress, and you'll be right in the neighborhood. Turn right on State
or left on Federal if you are looking for the cheap or the convenient
recommended parking lots respectively.

I'll update the wiki immediately.

NOTE: PLEASE EMAIL ME with "ChiPy March" in your subject line to
confirm your attendance.

mt

From mtobis at gmail.com  Tue Mar  7 19:20:26 2006
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 12:20:26 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] That time again...
In-Reply-To: <440C994E.6010607@colorstudy.com>
References: <c3aa55550603060914t7da387cal61120f29165289ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<3096c19d0603060919k3bf3fed9oc4043efe4186af81@mail.gmail.com>
	<440C7060.7040708@colorstudy.com>
	<361b27370603061149i7a902640j664281aed7da2955@mail.gmail.com>
	<440C994E.6010607@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <c3aa55550603071020g7b50dc49l7d2fde04a48b15f9@mail.gmail.com>

I would recommend Ian as the best person to channel Guido, presuming
Guido doesn't show up. Are you willing?

I would like to see a presentation on itertools and generators. If
nobody else is willing to give it, I would be. Like my pdb
presentation it would be basically put together on the fly on Thursday
but I'm game. However, I'd be happy to defer to someone with mroe
experience.

mt

From carl at clingfire.net  Wed Mar  8 02:30:00 2006
From: carl at clingfire.net (Carl Shimer)
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 19:30:00 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy March
In-Reply-To: <c3aa55550603070957n3dc9f04ei8ef8b85312eca40d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c3aa55550603070957n3dc9f04ei8ef8b85312eca40d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <440E3398.1040800@clingfire.net>

I will be there.

Carl

Michael Tobis wrote:
> That's 53 W Jackson Blvd, room 826.
>
> Here's a map:
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?q=53+W+Jackson+Blvd,+Chicago,+IL
>
> Amusingly, on the displayed scale the block on Jackson between Federal
> and Dearborn is infinitesimal, but that is where we intend to have our
> meeting nevertheless. Please try to reduce your dimensionality.  :o)
>
> It's right on the blue line, and two blocks from the red line, and
> walking distance to all of the Metra termini.
>
> Cheap parking is a few blocks away at State and Harrison, more
> expensive parking is immediately adjacent on Federal between Jackson
> and Van Buren. Take the Eisenhower all the way in until it turns into
> Congress, and you'll be right in the neighborhood. Turn right on State
> or left on Federal if you are looking for the cheap or the convenient
> recommended parking lots respectively.
>
> I'll update the wiki immediately.
>
> NOTE: PLEASE EMAIL ME with "ChiPy March" in your subject line to
> confirm your attendance.
>
> mt
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>   

From bray at sent.com  Wed Mar  8 06:13:17 2006
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 23:13:17 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ANN: Chicago Python Users Group, Thurs March 9
Message-ID: <C3289600-E712-4C6A-94F4-A991C08D94F8@sent.com>

Come to this months Chicago Python User Group Meeting and find out  
what happens when you cross a Chipmunk with a Python.

This is sure to be our best meeting yet. Confirm your attendance:  
mtobis aat gmail doot com with "ChiPy March" in your subject line.

On Topics
---------
Someone will fake a mild dutch accent and channel BDFL's state of the  
universe talk from PyCon, revealing upcoming new features of Python  
2.5 and beyond.

We also will talk about:

* doctest -- looks like interactive shell but embedded into doc strings

* itertools *Module of the Month*

* Maybe SCons -- finally get rid of those darn make files!


Off topics
----------

* hosting our FREEEE Python class
* start planning for the Code Sprint Hackathon on March 18th http:// 
chipy.org/ChipyChipySprint
* bring your tee shirt ideas. The best idea wins: a genuine pat on  
the back.
* something unexpected is also not planned

Location
--------
At the historic Monadnock Building, which in the 1890s was the  
tallest building in the world.

That's 53 W Jackson Blvd, room 826.

Here's a map:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=53+W+Jackson+Blvd,+Chicago,+IL

It's right on the blue line, and two blocks from the red line, and  
walking distance to all of the Metra termini.

Cheap parking is a few blocks away at State and Harrison, more  
expensive parking is immediately adjacent on Federal between Jackson  
and Van Buren. Take the Eisenhower all the way in until it turns into  
Congress, and you'll be right in the neighborhood. Turn right on  
State or left on Federal if you are looking for the cheap or the  
convenient recommended parking lots respectively.

***NOTE: PLEASE EMAIL mtobis aat gmail doot com with "ChiPy March" in  
your subject line to confirm your attendance.


About ChiPy
-----------

ChiPy is a group of Chicago Python Programmers, wannabes, and n00bs,  
who meet monthly at various locations around Chicagoland. We welcome  
all levels to attend.

ChiPy website: http://chipy.org
ChiPy Mailing List: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
Python website: http://python.org

----

Forward this on.

From clint at robotic.com  Wed Mar  8 13:56:40 2006
From: clint at robotic.com (Clint Laskowski)
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 06:56:40 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ANN: Chicago Python Users Group, Thurs March 9
In-Reply-To: <C3289600-E712-4C6A-94F4-A991C08D94F8@sent.com>
References: <C3289600-E712-4C6A-94F4-A991C08D94F8@sent.com>
Message-ID: <440ED488.8030901@robotic.com>

Anyone going to the meeting from Milwaukee? Interested in car pool ideas?

I'm in Glendale, WI.

-- Clint

Brian Ray wrote:
> Come to this months Chicago Python User Group Meeting and find out  
> what happens when you cross a Chipmunk with a Python.
>
> This is sure to be our best meeting yet. Confirm your attendance:  
> mtobis aat gmail doot com with "ChiPy March" in your subject line.
>
> On Topics
> ---------
> Someone will fake a mild dutch accent and channel BDFL's state of the  
> universe talk from PyCon, revealing upcoming new features of Python  
> 2.5 and beyond.
>
> We also will talk about:
>
> * doctest -- looks like interactive shell but embedded into doc strings
>
> * itertools *Module of the Month*
>
> * Maybe SCons -- finally get rid of those darn make files!
>
>
> Off topics
> ----------
>
> * hosting our FREEEE Python class
> * start planning for the Code Sprint Hackathon on March 18th http:// 
> chipy.org/ChipyChipySprint
> * bring your tee shirt ideas. The best idea wins: a genuine pat on  
> the back.
> * something unexpected is also not planned
>
> Location
> --------
> At the historic Monadnock Building, which in the 1890s was the  
> tallest building in the world.
>
> That's 53 W Jackson Blvd, room 826.
>
> Here's a map:
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?q=53+W+Jackson+Blvd,+Chicago,+IL
>
> It's right on the blue line, and two blocks from the red line, and  
> walking distance to all of the Metra termini.
>
> Cheap parking is a few blocks away at State and Harrison, more  
> expensive parking is immediately adjacent on Federal between Jackson  
> and Van Buren. Take the Eisenhower all the way in until it turns into  
> Congress, and you'll be right in the neighborhood. Turn right on  
> State or left on Federal if you are looking for the cheap or the  
> convenient recommended parking lots respectively.
>
> ***NOTE: PLEASE EMAIL mtobis aat gmail doot com with "ChiPy March" in  
> your subject line to confirm your attendance.
>
>
> About ChiPy
> -----------
>
> ChiPy is a group of Chicago Python Programmers, wannabes, and n00bs,  
> who meet monthly at various locations around Chicagoland. We welcome  
> all levels to attend.
>
> ChiPy website: http://chipy.org
> ChiPy Mailing List: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> Python website: http://python.org
>
> ----
>
> Forward this on.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
>   

From mtobis at gmail.com  Wed Mar  8 18:25:31 2006
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 11:25:31 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] RSVP tomorrow's meeting
Message-ID: <c3aa55550603080925g50782c3aq45240e1102a047bc@mail.gmail.com>

Reminder: If you are thinking of attending tomorrow's 7 PM ChiPy
meeting at the Monadnock, please drop me a note letting me know.

There's no penalty for not showing up if you say you are showing up,
but there's a potential hassle factor if you show up without saying
so.

pythonically
Michael

From ph at malaprop.org  Wed Mar  8 20:43:50 2006
From: ph at malaprop.org (Peter Harkins)
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 13:43:50 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] RSVP tomorrow's meeting
In-Reply-To: <c3aa55550603080925g50782c3aq45240e1102a047bc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c3aa55550603080925g50782c3aq45240e1102a047bc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060308194350.GK564@malaprop.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, Mar 08, 2006 at 11:25:31AM -0600, Michael Tobis wrote:
> Reminder: If you are thinking of attending tomorrow's 7 PM ChiPy
> meeting at the Monadnock, please drop me a note letting me know.

Please add me to the list.

- --
Peter Harkins  -  http://push.cx


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: If you don't know what this is, it's OK to ignore it.

iD8DBQFEDzP2a6PWv6+ALKoRAiFMAJ4/qcbkGAq/7cmxZlR3vNiWzxUGkwCffEJT
iJdzEw9XYrwFB2B/BEWIVXI=
=bUWy
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From PRobare at chx.com  Thu Mar  9 21:44:12 2006
From: PRobare at chx.com (Robare, Phil)
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 14:44:12 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Pre - meeting anyone?
Message-ID: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB6B0@MX3.chx.com>

For those of you coming from jobs in the loop it may be problematic to
run home and then back down.  In that case I would like to invite
similar ChiPy's to meet at the Coffee Shop in the Barnes & Noble at
Jackson & State (first floor DePaul Center).  I will be there about 5:30
and will be wearing a Chipmunk Suit^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H dark shirt
and pants and probably will be reading something suitably geekish until
others arrive.  If there are too many of us or B&N kicks us out for not
buying enough we will regroup in the seating area in the central lobby.

Hope to see some of you there.

Phil

From mtobis at gmail.com  Thu Mar  9 22:03:55 2006
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:03:55 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] nice turnout
Message-ID: <c3aa55550603091303h4488c18bm12de327d343ec89d@mail.gmail.com>

OK, I've got 26 tentative attendees. Looks like a lively meeting.

No more RSVPs please. If you show up without being on the list and
can't bluff your way past the guard ring me at

773 272 6827

mt

From beau at open-source-staffing.com  Fri Mar 10 15:40:47 2006
From: beau at open-source-staffing.com (Beau Gould)
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 09:40:47 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] [JOB] Open Source Software Engineer, Lake Bluff,
	IL | 75-120k
Message-ID: <049901c64450$9edf61f0$0a02a8c0@superioss.com>

Open Source Software Engineer, Lake Bluff, IL | 75-120k

NOTE: My client has plans to move closer to downtown Chicago in the early summer.

My client is looking for highly talented software engineer to complement its development team.

Candidate will be part of a team of developers building complex web based applications. He or she will be involved in architectural decisions and be responsible for implementing parts of the system. It will be important for the candidate to be able to take on a project independently and ensure its success.

REQUIREMENTS:

o The ideal candidate will be fluent in Ruby as well as proficient with Ruby on Rails.

Given that these are new technologies, extensive experience developing web applications in Object-Oriented Perl, Python, or Java can be substituted as long as a strong desire to work in Ruby exists.

o Experience in JavaScript and CSS is desirable as well as AJAX. 
o A deep understanding of relational databases and SQL is a must. 
o Experience with MySQL, PostgreSql is a big plus. 
o Experience with Linux/Unix is a must. 
o A degree in Computer Science, Engineering or relevant experience 

This is a full time, on-site, salaried position in Lake Bluff, IL.  It is NOT easily accessible via public transportation.  Candidates who live nearby or have a car are preferred. 

To be considered for this position, candidates:

MUST live within reasonable distance to the Lake Bluff, IL area. 
MUST work on-site at clients Lake Bluff, IL location. 
MUST be a US Citizen or GC holder 

If you are interested in this position and live in the area, please submit resume, a paragraph or cover letter highlighting your experience as it pertains to this job and your salary requirements to beau at open-source-staffing.com

NOTE: My client has plans to move closer to downtown Chicago in the early summer.


Thank you,
Beau J. Gould

Open Source Staffing
beau at open-source-staffing.com
www.open-source-staffing.com


Linux Jobs: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/linuxjobz 
Ruby/Rails Jobs: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rubyrailsjobs 
Python/Zope Jobs: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pythonzopejobs 
Open Source Jobs: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/opensourcejobs 
LAMP Jobs: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LAMPjobs 



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/278 - Release Date: 3/9/2006
 


From PRobare at chx.com  Fri Mar 10 16:09:01 2006
From: PRobare at chx.com (Robare, Phil)
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 09:09:01 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Wiki page problem
Message-ID: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB6B1@MX3.chx.com>

Chris's review of Practical Common Lisp (http://chipy.org/practicalcommonlisp) is displaying an error from (I believe) MoinMoin.

System Message: ERROR/3 (<string>, line 8)

Unknown directive type "raw".

.. raw:: html
[followed by some html attempting to retrieve a picture of the cover from Amazon and tag it as a link.]

Plus the text of the review has been garbled in a few places (e.g. "to '??do'?? something").  Problem appears in both firefox and IE from windows.

I'm not sure exactly who this report should go to so I apologize for spamming the rest of you.  Possibly we should have a webmaster mail-to link?

Phil

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Fri Mar 10 16:15:54 2006
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 09:15:54 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Wiki page problem
In-Reply-To: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB6B1@MX3.chx.com>
References: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB6B1@MX3.chx.com>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0603100715r4a462c96s73713ed5a9f56512@mail.gmail.com>

Ah...it's cruft from the wiki move a few weeks ago.  I'll take a look
at it sooner than later.  I think one of the reasons we don't have a
web admin email is because the site is a wiki, so we're all web
admin's...in our own special ways.

Chris

On 3/10/06, Robare, Phil <PRobare at chx.com> wrote:
> Chris's review of Practical Common Lisp (http://chipy.org/practicalcommonlisp) is displaying an error from (I believe) MoinMoin.
>
> System Message: ERROR/3 (<string>, line 8)
>
> Unknown directive type "raw".
>
> .. raw:: html
> [followed by some html attempting to retrieve a picture of the cover from Amazon and tag it as a link.]
>
> Plus the text of the review has been garbled in a few places (e.g. "to '??do'?? something").  Problem appears in both firefox and IE from windows.
>
> I'm not sure exactly who this report should go to so I apologize for spamming the rest of you.  Possibly we should have a webmaster mail-to link?
>
> Phil
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From bray at sent.com  Fri Mar 10 16:21:21 2006
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 09:21:21 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Wiki page problem
In-Reply-To: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB6B1@MX3.chx.com>
References: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB6B1@MX3.chx.com>
Message-ID: <54D5703C-A599-4864-8787-4CC24A38A18E@sent.com>

This happened when we moved our old wiki to MoinMoin. It's a wiki, so  
anybody can go in and fix these these things. So, feel free.

If there is something technically wrong with the wiki, which this is  
not the case, you can email me off the list.

Also, at the http://chipy.org/ChipyChipySprint we may be adding some  
tools to help enhance template-able sections such as book reviews. We  
will have to see...


-- bhr

From ianb at colorstudy.com  Tue Mar 14 06:46:30 2006
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 23:46:30 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Sprint, Imagescape
Message-ID: <441658B6.5090503@colorstudy.com>

Sorry I have been so slow to respond about this.  Anyway, it should be 
fine to have the sprint at Imaginary Landscape if you guys want to do 
that.  We don't have wireless, but we could either set that up if 
someone can bring a router, or we can just use a hub and wired 
connections.

(This is regards to this, if you haven't followed along: 
http://chipy.org/ChipyChipySprint)

-- 
Ian Bicking  |  ianb at colorstudy.com  |  http://blog.ianbicking.org

From bray at sent.com  Tue Mar 14 16:12:26 2006
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 09:12:26 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Sprint, Imagescape
In-Reply-To: <441658B6.5090503@colorstudy.com>
References: <441658B6.5090503@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <62A8BD19-D59B-4D1E-BF33-CE3741CEC0CF@sent.com>

Thanks Ian. Are you sure your qualified to do testing!

Unless somebody has strong objections, I say lets hold the Chipy  
Chipy Sprint at Imaginary Landscape--which is a real place, btw. I  
already updated the wiki.

Also, please note the required software. If you wish to Sprint and be  
(somewhat) productive, you must set these up on your laptop ahead of  
time.

If you do not have a laptop, no worries, we will be breaking up in  
pairs and we will pair you with someone who does.

While I am at it, I was thinking of ways we could make all of this  
easier to manage. Here is my brain storm:

* we have a base models and templates done ahead of time
* we open a Source-forge project and use their CVS
* we set up the sqlite on our own machines ahead of time (the actual  
site run PostgreSQL, because Django is cool like that)
* someone bring donuts
* I need coffee
* we move the start time back to 10am because I know you guys

Please note the class we were planning will NOT be held during the  
Sprint. If you are looking for the Python Class Held by mt, stay  
tuned. It will be scheduled for a separate time in the very near future.

Thanks again Ian and Imaginary Landscape.

-- bhr

From dkrunnfusz at texturallc.com  Tue Mar 14 16:36:46 2006
From: dkrunnfusz at texturallc.com (David Krunnfusz)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 09:36:46 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Jobs - I've got jobs
Message-ID: <20060314153646.DFA39C06D@texturallc.com>

  

I am currently looking to hire at least four designer/developers for the
following position. If you are looking for new and exciting opportunities
and have friends who want the same, here is an opportunity for you to work
together.  Additionally, I'm looking for two Quality Assurance Analysts to
work in a three-person QA team. Please pass this on to anyone you know who
might be interested.  Thank you.


 


  Web Application Developer: Textura LLC


Textura LLC (www.texturallc.com) is currently looking to hire experienced
web application developers. We are a quickly growing business process
service provider focused on automating the payment processing of the
construction industry. We are based in the Lake Forest/Lake Bluff, IL area.
We are a very well funded company, we have launched our services over a year
ago, and we are experiencing incredible market acceptance. 

Our primary customer service offering is a web-based solution written in
Python. We have major additional functionality to add to our current
offering, and plans to refactor and rearchitect our systems to support
future requirements.

We're looking for developers with a well-rounded technical skillset, and
experience developing complex, high volume business systems.

Desirable technology skills include:

*	Web application programming in Python, Java, and/or C/C++ 

*	Application development using Linux, Apache, Webware, SQLObject,
Reportlab, and J2EE technologies 

*	Database programming with PostgreSQL, DB2, and Oracle 

*	Web services and enterprise application integration experience

The ideal candidate would have the following qualifications:

*	BA/BS in CS or equivalent experience 

*	3-20 years of software development experience. 

*	Experience developing robust, secure, scalable, high volume,
commercial-grade web applications 

*	Financial and business workflow development experience 

*	Expertise with all phases of the software development lifecycle,
including requirements analysis, design, coding, testing, implementation,
and support 

*	Excellent verbal and written communication skills 

*	Skills working in a collaborative team environment

You can expect a fast-paced, fun, and challenging work environment, great
people to work with, a competitive salary commensurate with experience, and
significant bonus potential. 

 
Thanks,
Dave
 
----------------------------------------------------------------
David A. Krunnfusz
CTO, Textura LLC
51-K Sherwood Terrace, Lake Bluff, IL 60044
Office: (630)621-7693      Fax: (847)582-1037
www.texturallc.com <http://www.texturallc.com/> 
 
 
 
 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20060314/e43d3caf/attachment.html 

From fawad at fawad.net  Tue Mar 14 18:40:45 2006
From: fawad at fawad.net (Fawad Halim)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 11:40:45 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Chicago] Sprint, Imagescape
In-Reply-To: <62A8BD19-D59B-4D1E-BF33-CE3741CEC0CF@sent.com>
References: <441658B6.5090503@colorstudy.com>
	<62A8BD19-D59B-4D1E-BF33-CE3741CEC0CF@sent.com>
Message-ID: <54010.24.15.18.66.1142358045.squirrel@home.fawad.net>

I have a couple of things to add/suggest.

* I think a pre-sprint huddle would be helpful. #chipy, maybe?
* CVS is scary. Can we do Subversion instead? I have a machine running at
home that has SVN all ready to go. I'm thinking that our group is small
enough that we'd likely not saturate the 256 Kb/s upstream Comcast gives.
In a pinch, we can run SVN off my laptop and use that.
* I haven't been to any sprints, so I might be completely off base here,
but wouldn't reconciling the databases for diferrent people be a small
nightmare? Wouldn't a shared local install of pgsql be nicer?

Regards
-fawad

On Tue, March 14, 2006 09:12, Brian Ray wrote:
> Thanks Ian. Are you sure your qualified to do testing!
>
>
> Unless somebody has strong objections, I say lets hold the Chipy
> Chipy Sprint at Imaginary Landscape--which is a real place, btw. I
> already updated the wiki.
>
> Also, please note the required software. If you wish to Sprint and be
> (somewhat) productive, you must set these up on your laptop ahead of
> time.
>
> If you do not have a laptop, no worries, we will be breaking up in
> pairs and we will pair you with someone who does.
>
> While I am at it, I was thinking of ways we could make all of this
> easier to manage. Here is my brain storm:
>
> * we have a base models and templates done ahead of time
> * we open a Source-forge project and use their CVS
> * we set up the sqlite on our own machines ahead of time (the actual
> site run PostgreSQL, because Django is cool like that) * someone bring
> donuts * I need coffee
> * we move the start time back to 10am because I know you guys
>
>
> Please note the class we were planning will NOT be held during the
> Sprint. If you are looking for the Python Class Held by mt, stay
> tuned. It will be scheduled for a separate time in the very near future.
>
> Thanks again Ian and Imaginary Landscape.
>
>
> -- bhr
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From mtobis at gmail.com  Tue Mar 14 18:55:06 2006
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 11:55:06 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Programming for Newbies with Python
Message-ID: <c3aa55550603140955r3efc2a0foc753145133339fe6@mail.gmail.com>

Pass this around!

mt
--------------------------

PROGRAMMING FOR NEWBIES WITH PYTHON

The Chicago Python User Group (ChiPy) with the kind cooperation of the
Computer Science Department at Loyola University of Chicago will be
offering a free introduction to computer programming using the Python
language.

WHEN AND WHERE

Saturday March 25
1 PM - 3:30 PM

Downtown Campus of Loyola University
Chicago IL

This is near Water Tower Place, and near the Chicago and State stop on
the red line.

If you sign up I'll give you complete directions.

RSVP

If you intend to attend, PLEASE LET ME KNOW the name of everyone
attending by noon on Friday March 24. email me at mtobis at gmail dot
com . I'll reply with directions and the room number. Please note that
you need a laptop with Python installed to participate. (see below)

WHO SHOULD SHOW UP

I'm looking for people who would be interested in taking up computing
as a serious hobby. The final impetus to present this was presented by
a father-son team who want to learn to program together. I would
welcome teenagers or adults. Parent/teen pairs are especially welcome.

Children under the age of 13 may attend if accompanied by an adult but
for most pre-teens this may prove too challenging.

On the other hand, professional programmers will find the pace too slow.

You need no coding experience at all, but you shouldn't be unfamiliar
with a computer altogether. A small amount of exposure to HTML would
be helpful.

PREREQUISITES

Because this is totally a volunteer effort, I can't provide you with
any computers. And we want to avoid being bogged down in installation
details. So:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BEFORE SIGNING UP
=================

1) You MUST HAVE OR BORROW A LAPTOP

2) YOU MUST FIND (if necessary download) PYTHON,  version 2.2 or
higher on the laptop

3) YOU MUST put the text

print "hello world"

into a plain text file, AND RUN IT ON THE LAPTOP, producing the output
"hello world".

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You will need to figure the above out for yourself or with the
assistance of a more experienced computer user. Unfortunately this may
not be easy for everybody but it's the only way avoid getting bogged
down in boring details.

WHAT WE WILL DO

The first meeting will be an introduction to the power of Python, and
an organizational meeting. By the time you leave you will have written
a small and amusing piece of working software.

We'll also poll the group about your interests, and decide on where
and how often we should meet in the future, and set up some online
communication to keep each other in contact. We will probably meet
every second Saturday.

ABOUT PYTHON

Python is a pure open source language with a remarkable and
enthusiastic user community.

Python is designed to be both accessible and powerful. Most
professional programming work could be done in whole or mostly in
Python, and much of it increasingly is done that way. However, Python
keeps complexity hidden until you need it. This has advantages for
everyone, but is especially useful for beginners.

Python offers you as a beginer the ability to get real useful and/or
fun things done fairly quickly with a modest effort.

Let us prove it to you. Come to our first meeting and see!

From ianb at colorstudy.com  Tue Mar 14 19:42:28 2006
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 12:42:28 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Sprint, Imagescape
In-Reply-To: <62A8BD19-D59B-4D1E-BF33-CE3741CEC0CF@sent.com>
References: <441658B6.5090503@colorstudy.com>
	<62A8BD19-D59B-4D1E-BF33-CE3741CEC0CF@sent.com>
Message-ID: <44170E94.6050001@colorstudy.com>

Brian Ray wrote:
> Thanks Ian. Are you sure your qualified to do testing!
> 
> Unless somebody has strong objections, I say lets hold the Chipy  
> Chipy Sprint at Imaginary Landscape--which is a real place, btw. I  
> already updated the wiki.
> 
> Also, please note the required software. If you wish to Sprint and be  
> (somewhat) productive, you must set these up on your laptop ahead of  
> time.
> 
> If you do not have a laptop, no worries, we will be breaking up in  
> pairs and we will pair you with someone who does.
> 
> While I am at it, I was thinking of ways we could make all of this  
> easier to manage. Here is my brain storm:
> 
> * we have a base models and templates done ahead of time
> * we open a Source-forge project and use their CVS

CVS is web-1.0.  Boo on CVS!  And SF!  Actually I think SF has svn 
now...?  Or Berlios.  It takes a while to set up, so it should be set up 
right away.  python-hosting.com also offers free Trac and svn to open 
source projects.  Or lastly I can throw up another repository on 
webwareforpython.org, which has a couple repos already; if nothing else 
is ready in time that's a good fallback.

Or we could be all web-3.0 and use bazaar-ng (http://bazaar-vcs.org/). 
That is probably a bad idea, though.

> * we set up the sqlite on our own machines ahead of time (the actual  
> site run PostgreSQL, because Django is cool like that)

Probably best, even if I suspect this is going to drive me nuts.  My own 
fault for having a messed up Python install on my laptop.  I've never 
configured Postgres to be open over the network (only local socket 
connections); but potentially I could also set that up.  You'd still 
need psycopg then.

> * someone bring donuts
> * I need coffee

We can make this at the office; hot 'n' thrifty.

> * we move the start time back to 10am because I know you guys

Before 10am?  That would have been crazy.


-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org

From varmaa at gmail.com  Tue Mar 14 20:12:14 2006
From: varmaa at gmail.com (Atul Varma)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 13:12:14 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Sprint, Imagescape
In-Reply-To: <44170E94.6050001@colorstudy.com>
References: <441658B6.5090503@colorstudy.com>
	<62A8BD19-D59B-4D1E-BF33-CE3741CEC0CF@sent.com>
	<44170E94.6050001@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <361b27370603141112l68a5817h32e2dc71b6c1f56d@mail.gmail.com>

On 3/14/06, Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
> CVS is web-1.0.  Boo on CVS!  And SF!  Actually I think SF has svn
> now...?  Or Berlios.  It takes a while to set up, so it should be set up
> right away.  python-hosting.com also offers free Trac and svn to open
> source projects.

Yes, boo on CVS!  SF did indeed start offering SVN in the last month
or so...  And Trac is great.

That is all.

- Atul

From brian at planetshwoop.com  Tue Mar 14 20:28:05 2006
From: brian at planetshwoop.com (Brian Sobolak)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 13:28:05 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Chicago] Sprint, Imagescape
In-Reply-To: <361b27370603141112l68a5817h32e2dc71b6c1f56d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <441658B6.5090503@colorstudy.com>
	<62A8BD19-D59B-4D1E-BF33-CE3741CEC0CF@sent.com>
	<44170E94.6050001@colorstudy.com>
	<361b27370603141112l68a5817h32e2dc71b6c1f56d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55885.4.17.250.5.1142364485.squirrel@webmail.psys.org>


Atul Varma wrote:
> On 3/14/06, Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
>> CVS is web-1.0.  Boo on CVS!  And SF!  Actually I think SF has svn
>> now...?  Or Berlios.  It takes a while to set up, so it should be set up
>> right away.  python-hosting.com also offers free Trac and svn to open
>> source projects.
>
> Yes, boo on CVS!  SF did indeed start offering SVN in the last month
> or so...  And Trac is great.

It seems that we're only a few short years away from the number of source
code control packages exceeding the usual winner of the game of "Let's
Rewrite It!", the text editor.

Or is CVS vs {anything} the new vi vs emacs?

brian
--
Brian Sobolak
http://www.planetshwoop.com/


From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Tue Mar 14 21:06:27 2006
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 14:06:27 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Sprint, Imagescape
In-Reply-To: <55885.4.17.250.5.1142364485.squirrel@webmail.psys.org>
References: <441658B6.5090503@colorstudy.com>
	<62A8BD19-D59B-4D1E-BF33-CE3741CEC0CF@sent.com>
	<44170E94.6050001@colorstudy.com>
	<361b27370603141112l68a5817h32e2dc71b6c1f56d@mail.gmail.com>
	<55885.4.17.250.5.1142364485.squirrel@webmail.psys.org>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0603141206ya39ef4asfebee1d95d3ee862@mail.gmail.com>

On 3/14/06, Brian Sobolak <brian at planetshwoop.com> wrote:
> Or is CVS vs {anything} the new vi vs emacs?

No, it's the CVS is to eating a bug as SVN is to getting to go to
Seaworld instead of school.

vi is to emacs as bic pens are to paper mate pens.

Also, as this sprint is the morning after St. Patrick's day, I predict
I will show up late, if at all.  If I do show up, I probably won't
like loud noises.

Chris

From varmaa at gmail.com  Tue Mar 14 21:13:11 2006
From: varmaa at gmail.com (Atul Varma)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 14:13:11 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Sprint, Imagescape
In-Reply-To: <55885.4.17.250.5.1142364485.squirrel@webmail.psys.org>
References: <441658B6.5090503@colorstudy.com>
	<62A8BD19-D59B-4D1E-BF33-CE3741CEC0CF@sent.com>
	<44170E94.6050001@colorstudy.com>
	<361b27370603141112l68a5817h32e2dc71b6c1f56d@mail.gmail.com>
	<55885.4.17.250.5.1142364485.squirrel@webmail.psys.org>
Message-ID: <361b27370603141213i31f20ef8wb1d5c5265b0f5010@mail.gmail.com>

On 3/14/06, Brian Sobolak <brian at planetshwoop.com> wrote:
> It seems that we're only a few short years away from the number of source
> code control packages exceeding the usual winner of the game of "Let's
> Rewrite It!", the text editor.
>
> Or is CVS vs {anything} the new vi vs emacs?

Hmm, maybe I'm misinterpreting what you're saying, but my
understanding was that SVN beats CVS "hands-down" in pretty much all
respects.  I first ran into SVN a little over a year ago--a client's
CVS repository I had set up was causing some strange problems, so I
tried switching them over to SVN just so they could have a source code
repository that didn't randomly hang.  But I quickly discovered that
SVN was superior to CVS in pretty much every way I could think of...
All the annoyances I'd had with CVS (e.g., renaming directories,
viewing local changes) were solved by SVN, and SVN was much easier to
understand to boot (for instance, doing branches and tags under SVN is
exactly the same thing as copying a folder--you don't have to learn
new mechanisms for them like with CVS).

So if there's a "vi vs. emacs" of the revision control world, my guess
is that it's SVN versus something else I don't know about.  As far as
I can tell, CVS just plain sucks compared to its competition--and for
understandable reasons, given its age.

- Atul

From adudzik at gmail.com  Tue Mar 14 21:20:20 2006
From: adudzik at gmail.com (Andrew Dudzik)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 14:20:20 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Sprint, Imagescape
In-Reply-To: <361b27370603141213i31f20ef8wb1d5c5265b0f5010@mail.gmail.com>
References: <441658B6.5090503@colorstudy.com>
	<62A8BD19-D59B-4D1E-BF33-CE3741CEC0CF@sent.com>
	<44170E94.6050001@colorstudy.com>
	<361b27370603141112l68a5817h32e2dc71b6c1f56d@mail.gmail.com>
	<55885.4.17.250.5.1142364485.squirrel@webmail.psys.org>
	<361b27370603141213i31f20ef8wb1d5c5265b0f5010@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c05d6d5b0603141220j6d099d27pb85c76b07c822127@mail.gmail.com>

On 3/14/06, Atul Varma <varmaa at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> CVS just plain sucks compared to its competition


 Allow me to introduce you to a little program called VSS...
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20060314/bb6c8508/attachment.html 

From bray at sent.com  Tue Mar 14 22:10:03 2006
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:10:03 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Sprint, Imagescape
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0603141206ya39ef4asfebee1d95d3ee862@mail.gmail.com>
References: <441658B6.5090503@colorstudy.com>
	<62A8BD19-D59B-4D1E-BF33-CE3741CEC0CF@sent.com>
	<44170E94.6050001@colorstudy.com>
	<361b27370603141112l68a5817h32e2dc71b6c1f56d@mail.gmail.com>
	<55885.4.17.250.5.1142364485.squirrel@webmail.psys.org>
	<3096c19d0603141206ya39ef4asfebee1d95d3ee862@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8DD0EE36-346E-4CC0-9843-6C688CED2841@sent.com>


On Mar 14, 2006, at 2:06 PM, Chris McAvoy wrote:

> Also, as this sprint is the morning after St. Patrick's day, I predict
> I will show up late, if at all.  If I do show up, I probably won't
> like loud noises.


If I recall, this Sprint was *your* idea :p

From ianb at colorstudy.com  Tue Mar 14 22:10:22 2006
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:10:22 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Sprint, Imagescape
In-Reply-To: <c05d6d5b0603141220j6d099d27pb85c76b07c822127@mail.gmail.com>
References: <441658B6.5090503@colorstudy.com>	<62A8BD19-D59B-4D1E-BF33-CE3741CEC0CF@sent.com>	<44170E94.6050001@colorstudy.com>	<361b27370603141112l68a5817h32e2dc71b6c1f56d@mail.gmail.com>	<55885.4.17.250.5.1142364485.squirrel@webmail.psys.org>	<361b27370603141213i31f20ef8wb1d5c5265b0f5010@mail.gmail.com>
	<c05d6d5b0603141220j6d099d27pb85c76b07c822127@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4417313E.3000100@colorstudy.com>

Andrew Dudzik wrote:
> On 3/14/06, *Atul Varma* <varmaa at gmail.com <mailto:varmaa at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>     CVS just plain sucks compared to its competition
> 
> 
>  Allow me to introduce you to a little program called VSS...

I think the better statement would be that CVS compares to SVN, and 
mostly sucks compared to the new generation of distributed VC systems -- 
but it's really easy to compare CVS to SVN, and not as easy to compare 
to the other systems (the distributed-vs-centralized debate is seperate 
from the quality-of-tool debate).

But notably every new generation of systems works from the CVS *model* 
as a basis.  SVN copies is very closely.  Distributed systems change it, 
but use CVS as their point of reference for changes.  And all those 
other proprietary systems are just dead ends.  (Except probably 
BitKeeper, which has been very influential)


-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Tue Mar 14 22:15:11 2006
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:15:11 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Sprint, Imagescape
In-Reply-To: <8DD0EE36-346E-4CC0-9843-6C688CED2841@sent.com>
References: <441658B6.5090503@colorstudy.com>
	<62A8BD19-D59B-4D1E-BF33-CE3741CEC0CF@sent.com>
	<44170E94.6050001@colorstudy.com>
	<361b27370603141112l68a5817h32e2dc71b6c1f56d@mail.gmail.com>
	<55885.4.17.250.5.1142364485.squirrel@webmail.psys.org>
	<3096c19d0603141206ya39ef4asfebee1d95d3ee862@mail.gmail.com>
	<8DD0EE36-346E-4CC0-9843-6C688CED2841@sent.com>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0603141315h21c8aae8lc9f6562e5dd5bb38@mail.gmail.com>

On 3/14/06, Brian Ray <bray at sent.com> wrote:
> If I recall, this Sprint was *your* idea :p

Totally...but like many great thinkers, I'll let the little folks act
on my whims.  Now, go forth and conquer Chiplets!  I'll be waaaaaay
behind the line of battle.  Back here.  By the cold drinks and snacks,
nursing a hangover.  When you guys are done, I'll be happy to take
credit, so keep me in the loop.

Chris

From PRobare at chx.com  Tue Mar 14 22:15:02 2006
From: PRobare at chx.com (Robare, Phil)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:15:02 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Sprint, Imagescape
Message-ID: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB6B4@MX3.chx.com>

Ian Bicking wrote:
> But notably every new generation of systems works from the CVS *model*
...

Quiet nestlings, and let me tell you stories of the dark ages when SCCS
was new and very shiny ...

From bray at sent.com  Tue Mar 14 22:21:08 2006
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:21:08 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Sprint, Imagescape
In-Reply-To: <54010.24.15.18.66.1142358045.squirrel@home.fawad.net>
References: <441658B6.5090503@colorstudy.com>
	<62A8BD19-D59B-4D1E-BF33-CE3741CEC0CF@sent.com>
	<54010.24.15.18.66.1142358045.squirrel@home.fawad.net>
Message-ID: <E3B79341-F49F-4F37-B7FB-44626BFE90EA@sent.com>


On Mar 14, 2006, at 11:40 AM, Fawad Halim wrote:

>
> * I think a pre-sprint huddle would be helpful. #chipy, maybe?

Ok #chipy tonight around 9pm?

> * CVS is scary. Can we do Subversion instead? I have a machine  
> running at
> home that has SVN all ready to go. I'm thinking that our group is  
> small
> enough that we'd likely not saturate the 256 Kb/s upstream Comcast  
> gives.
> In a pinch, we can run SVN off my laptop and use that.

I am more than ok with SVN. Although, I think we would be better off  
with something already setup with a static location and what not...

It sounds like Ian know some options. Maybe we should just leave this  
up to Ian. It's fine
with me if it's on webwareforpython.org Although Trac integration is  
nice also. Ian?

One large complicated part of this is how to set up accounts for  
everyone who will be sprinting. And this probably needs to be done  
ahead of time. So, what we *really* need is ChipyChipy to help us  
here. Although, since we have not build it yet, maybe we just put our  
heads together and figure out a way.

> but wouldn't reconciling the databases for diferrent people be a small
> nightmare?

Yes, this is what we must talk more about.

Maybe there are only one group working on Model stuff at one time.  
Also, we stick to Django model so we know its portable. And it will  
not really matter how its implemented. We should also consider  
writing a script for populating (and un-populating) the database with  
some initial data.

For now, I think we should stick with saying get sqlite set up on  
your laptop and at least there will be a fall back.

--bhr






-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20060314/ae86cf29/attachment-0001.html 

From ken at stox.org  Tue Mar 14 22:44:02 2006
From: ken at stox.org (Kenneth P. Stox)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:44:02 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Sprint, Imagescape
In-Reply-To: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB6B4@MX3.chx.com>
References: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB6B4@MX3.chx.com>
Message-ID: <1142372642.7615.5.camel@stox.dyndns.org>

On Tue, 2006-03-14 at 15:15 -0600, Robare, Phil wrote:
> Ian Bicking wrote:
> > But notably every new generation of systems works from the CVS *model*
> ...
> 
> Quiet nestlings, and let me tell you stories of the dark ages when SCCS
> was new and very shiny ...

Please don't go there. Now I am going to have nightmares of CMS and
SABLE tonight. :-( 


From fawad at fawad.net  Wed Mar 15 21:59:14 2006
From: fawad at fawad.net (Fawad Halim)
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:59:14 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Chicago] Sprint, Imagescape
In-Reply-To: <E3B79341-F49F-4F37-B7FB-44626BFE90EA@sent.com>
References: <441658B6.5090503@colorstudy.com>
	<62A8BD19-D59B-4D1E-BF33-CE3741CEC0CF@sent.com>
	<54010.24.15.18.66.1142358045.squirrel@home.fawad.net>
	<E3B79341-F49F-4F37-B7FB-44626BFE90EA@sent.com>
Message-ID: <42982.24.15.18.66.1142456354.squirrel@home.fawad.net>

Hi,
  I've created an SVN repository at

http://opensvn.csie.org/chipy

The corresponding viewcvs is :
https://opensvn.csie.org/viewcvs.cgi/?root=chipy
and trac is : https://opensvn.csie.org/traccgi/chipy/

If we come up with a better/different hosting for svn, opensvn gives us
the option of creating a dump of the repository.

We can create user accounts the day of the sprint, or if we need to do
some prep before then, please email me so I can create one for you.

I missed the 9 o'clock thing last night, but, as far as I know, there
hasn't been any discussion about the design yet. It'd be nice if someone
more experienced in organizing/participating in sprints could advise about
how designing the app would work.

Regards
-fawad

On Tue, March 14, 2006 15:21, Brian Ray wrote:
>

> On Mar 14, 2006, at 11:40 AM, Fawad Halim wrote:
>
>
>>
>> * I think a pre-sprint huddle would be helpful. #chipy, maybe?
>>
>
> Ok #chipy tonight around 9pm?
>
>
>> * CVS is scary. Can we do Subversion instead? I have a machine
>> running at home that has SVN all ready to go. I'm thinking that our group
>> is small enough that we'd likely not saturate the 256 Kb/s upstream
>> Comcast
>> gives. In a pinch, we can run SVN off my laptop and use that.
>>
>
> I am more than ok with SVN. Although, I think we would be better off
> with something already setup with a static location and what not...
>
> It sounds like Ian know some options. Maybe we should just leave this
> up to Ian. It's fine with me if it's on webwareforpython.org Although Trac
> integration is nice also. Ian?
>
> One large complicated part of this is how to set up accounts for
> everyone who will be sprinting. And this probably needs to be done ahead of
> time. So, what we *really* need is ChipyChipy to help us here. Although,
> since we have not build it yet, maybe we just put our heads together and
> figure out a way.
>
>> but wouldn't reconciling the databases for diferrent people be a small
>> nightmare?
>
> Yes, this is what we must talk more about.
>
>
> Maybe there are only one group working on Model stuff at one time.
> Also, we stick to Django model so we know its portable. And it will
> not really matter how its implemented. We should also consider writing a
> script for populating (and un-populating) the database with some initial
> data.
>
> For now, I think we should stick with saying get sqlite set up on
> your laptop and at least there will be a fall back.
>
> --bhr
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>



From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Wed Mar 15 22:52:19 2006
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 15:52:19 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Sprint, Imagescape
In-Reply-To: <42982.24.15.18.66.1142456354.squirrel@home.fawad.net>
References: <441658B6.5090503@colorstudy.com>
	<62A8BD19-D59B-4D1E-BF33-CE3741CEC0CF@sent.com>
	<54010.24.15.18.66.1142358045.squirrel@home.fawad.net>
	<E3B79341-F49F-4F37-B7FB-44626BFE90EA@sent.com>
	<42982.24.15.18.66.1142456354.squirrel@home.fawad.net>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0603151352u7648f004n79bd2de8fa71488a@mail.gmail.com>

Although I've stated I'm probably not going to be able to make
Saturday, my icy grip still finds its way into this project.

When some people got together at Thoughtworks to work on Selenium,
this is how it went down:

* A time boxed "round table" type session where requirements were
hashed out.  I think it lasted for 15 minutes.  I think a half hour
would be good for this sprint

* The round table items were bullet pointed

* bullet points were grouped into projects

* people volunteered for projects

* everyone split off into their project team, and worked for an hour.

* After the hour, everyone checked back in to present what they'd done.

I would suggest that that's a good way to organize...but I'm sure
those that went to Pycon may have more insight into how to get
something like this organized.

Chris

On 3/15/06, Fawad Halim <fawad at fawad.net> wrote:
> Hi,
>   I've created an SVN repository at
>
> http://opensvn.csie.org/chipy
>
> The corresponding viewcvs is :
> https://opensvn.csie.org/viewcvs.cgi/?root=chipy
> and trac is : https://opensvn.csie.org/traccgi/chipy/
>
> If we come up with a better/different hosting for svn, opensvn gives us
> the option of creating a dump of the repository.
>
> We can create user accounts the day of the sprint, or if we need to do
> some prep before then, please email me so I can create one for you.
>
> I missed the 9 o'clock thing last night, but, as far as I know, there
> hasn't been any discussion about the design yet. It'd be nice if someone
> more experienced in organizing/participating in sprints could advise about
> how designing the app would work.
>
> Regards
> -fawad
>
> On Tue, March 14, 2006 15:21, Brian Ray wrote:
> >
>
> > On Mar 14, 2006, at 11:40 AM, Fawad Halim wrote:
> >
> >
> >>
> >> * I think a pre-sprint huddle would be helpful. #chipy, maybe?
> >>
> >
> > Ok #chipy tonight around 9pm?
> >
> >
> >> * CVS is scary. Can we do Subversion instead? I have a machine
> >> running at home that has SVN all ready to go. I'm thinking that our group
> >> is small enough that we'd likely not saturate the 256 Kb/s upstream
> >> Comcast
> >> gives. In a pinch, we can run SVN off my laptop and use that.
> >>
> >
> > I am more than ok with SVN. Although, I think we would be better off
> > with something already setup with a static location and what not...
> >
> > It sounds like Ian know some options. Maybe we should just leave this
> > up to Ian. It's fine with me if it's on webwareforpython.org Although Trac
> > integration is nice also. Ian?
> >
> > One large complicated part of this is how to set up accounts for
> > everyone who will be sprinting. And this probably needs to be done ahead of
> > time. So, what we *really* need is ChipyChipy to help us here. Although,
> > since we have not build it yet, maybe we just put our heads together and
> > figure out a way.
> >
> >> but wouldn't reconciling the databases for diferrent people be a small
> >> nightmare?
> >
> > Yes, this is what we must talk more about.
> >
> >
> > Maybe there are only one group working on Model stuff at one time.
> > Also, we stick to Django model so we know its portable. And it will
> > not really matter how its implemented. We should also consider writing a
> > script for populating (and un-populating) the database with some initial
> > data.
> >
> > For now, I think we should stick with saying get sqlite set up on
> > your laptop and at least there will be a fall back.
> >
> > --bhr
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Mar 15 22:59:20 2006
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 15:59:20 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Sprint, Imagescape
In-Reply-To: <42982.24.15.18.66.1142456354.squirrel@home.fawad.net>
References: <441658B6.5090503@colorstudy.com>	<62A8BD19-D59B-4D1E-BF33-CE3741CEC0CF@sent.com>	<54010.24.15.18.66.1142358045.squirrel@home.fawad.net>	<E3B79341-F49F-4F37-B7FB-44626BFE90EA@sent.com>
	<42982.24.15.18.66.1142456354.squirrel@home.fawad.net>
Message-ID: <44188E38.7080708@colorstudy.com>

Fawad Halim wrote:
> Hi,
>   I've created an SVN repository at
> 
> http://opensvn.csie.org/chipy

Cool; it'll be nice to have total control over the repository.

> The corresponding viewcvs is :
> https://opensvn.csie.org/viewcvs.cgi/?root=chipy
> and trac is : https://opensvn.csie.org/traccgi/chipy/

Also very nice!

> If we come up with a better/different hosting for svn, opensvn gives us
> the option of creating a dump of the repository.
> 
> We can create user accounts the day of the sprint, or if we need to do
> some prep before then, please email me so I can create one for you.

What access method are you using?  I usually use simple HTTP Basic, so 
people send me lines made from htpasswd to set up an account.

> I missed the 9 o'clock thing last night, but, as far as I know, there
> hasn't been any discussion about the design yet. It'd be nice if someone
> more experienced in organizing/participating in sprints could advise about
> how designing the app would work.

I forgot about the 9 o'clock thing too.  I'll try to remember to get on 
#chipy tonight, though.

I think it would be useful if someone put a hello-world app in the 
repository before the sprint; i.e., complete structure.

Personally I think some people spend too much time in design at sprints 
-- better just to dive in.  But that's my general philosophy on 
programming.  Anyway, usually there is a "coach", who may not do much 
programming but is available for questions, keeps an eye out for any 
integration issues, etc.  And then some small groups.  But it doesn't 
require a lot of planning; it often just happens that one person goes 
around answering questions.

We should probably talk about scope -- probably at the sprint -- and do 
a really quick mockup (UMLish, or UIish).  Then see if we can divide 
into groups, and try to commit and svn up often so we can break each 
other's stuff earlier rather than later.  And regroup often.

While I write this Chris chimed on the Selenium sprint.  That was more 
organized than most of us were at PyCon ;)  That sounds good too.




Lastly dumb hubs and extra ethernet cables would be appreciated for the 
sprint.  If anyone has a wireless router that is easy to set up, also 
appreciated -- I can bring mine, but I find it hard to setup sometimes.




-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Wed Mar 15 23:15:23 2006
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 16:15:23 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Sprint, Imagescape
In-Reply-To: <44188E38.7080708@colorstudy.com>
References: <441658B6.5090503@colorstudy.com>
	<62A8BD19-D59B-4D1E-BF33-CE3741CEC0CF@sent.com>
	<54010.24.15.18.66.1142358045.squirrel@home.fawad.net>
	<E3B79341-F49F-4F37-B7FB-44626BFE90EA@sent.com>
	<42982.24.15.18.66.1142456354.squirrel@home.fawad.net>
	<44188E38.7080708@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0603151415j2eb769b4w1caf813a763c355a@mail.gmail.com>

On 3/15/06, Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
> While I write this Chris chimed on the Selenium sprint.  That was more
> organized than most of us were at PyCon ;)  That sounds good too.

That guy is seriously on the ball.

The really big point to take away from that Selenium bit is:
"everything is time-boxed."  Meaning, at the top of the discussion,
declare that it won't last more than 30 minutes...and then stick to
it.  It sounds like a game, but it really does keep things moving.

Chris

From fawad at fawad.net  Thu Mar 16 00:29:21 2006
From: fawad at fawad.net (Fawad Halim)
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 17:29:21 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Chicago] Sprint, Imagescape
In-Reply-To: <44188E38.7080708@colorstudy.com>
References: <441658B6.5090503@colorstudy.com>	<62A8BD19-D59B-4D1E-BF33-CE3741CEC0CF@sent.com>	<54010.24.15.18.66.1142358045.squirrel@home.fawad.net>	<E3B79341-F49F-4F37-B7FB-44626BFE90EA@sent.com>
	<42982.24.15.18.66.1142456354.squirrel@home.fawad.net>
	<44188E38.7080708@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <46803.24.15.18.66.1142465361.squirrel@home.fawad.net>

On Wed, March 15, 2006 15:59, Ian Bicking wrote:
> Fawad Halim wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> I've created an SVN repository at
>>
>>
>> http://opensvn.csie.org/chipy
>>
>
> Cool; it'll be nice to have total control over the repository.
>
>
>> The corresponding viewcvs is :
>> https://opensvn.csie.org/viewcvs.cgi/?root=chipy
>> and trac is : https://opensvn.csie.org/traccgi/chipy/
>
> Also very nice!
>
>
>> If we come up with a better/different hosting for svn, opensvn gives us
>>  the option of creating a dump of the repository.
>>
>> We can create user accounts the day of the sprint, or if we need to do
>> some prep before then, please email me so I can create one for you.
>
> What access method are you using?  I usually use simple HTTP Basic, so
> people send me lines made from htpasswd to set up an account.
The repository uses HTTP(S) Basic. Unfortunately, I don't have access to
the raw htpasswd file. What I do need is the required userid and initial
password. If I specify an email address, that gets a link that lets the
user reset their password.
>
>> I missed the 9 o'clock thing last night, but, as far as I know, there
>> hasn't been any discussion about the design yet. It'd be nice if someone
>>  more experienced in organizing/participating in sprints could advise
>> about how designing the app would work.
>
> I forgot about the 9 o'clock thing too.  I'll try to remember to get on
> #chipy tonight, though.
>
>
> I think it would be useful if someone put a hello-world app in the
> repository before the sprint; i.e., complete structure.
>
> Personally I think some people spend too much time in design at sprints
> -- better just to dive in.  But that's my general philosophy on
> programming.  Anyway, usually there is a "coach", who may not do much
> programming but is available for questions, keeps an eye out for any
> integration issues, etc.  And then some small groups.  But it doesn't
> require a lot of planning; it often just happens that one person goes
> around answering questions.
>
> We should probably talk about scope -- probably at the sprint -- and do
> a really quick mockup (UMLish, or UIish).  Then see if we can divide into
> groups, and try to commit and svn up often so we can break each other's
> stuff earlier rather than later.  And regroup often.
>
> While I write this Chris chimed on the Selenium sprint.  That was more
> organized than most of us were at PyCon ;)  That sounds good too.
>
Yeah, I'm really liking the idea of doing a reality check every hour.
>
>
>
> Lastly dumb hubs and extra ethernet cables would be appreciated for the
> sprint.  If anyone has a wireless router that is easy to set up, also
> appreciated -- I can bring mine, but I find it hard to setup sometimes.

I can bring a hub or two.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org

-fawad


From fitz at red-bean.com  Thu Mar 16 21:30:32 2006
From: fitz at red-bean.com (Brian W. Fitzpatrick)
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:30:32 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Sprint, Imagescape
In-Reply-To: <4417313E.3000100@colorstudy.com>
References: <441658B6.5090503@colorstudy.com>
	<62A8BD19-D59B-4D1E-BF33-CE3741CEC0CF@sent.com>
	<44170E94.6050001@colorstudy.com>
	<361b27370603141112l68a5817h32e2dc71b6c1f56d@mail.gmail.com>
	<55885.4.17.250.5.1142364485.squirrel@webmail.psys.org>
	<361b27370603141213i31f20ef8wb1d5c5265b0f5010@mail.gmail.com>
	<c05d6d5b0603141220j6d099d27pb85c76b07c822127@mail.gmail.com>
	<4417313E.3000100@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <a5375ad50603161230o16270ecxf6d4e5813d77f8a9@mail.gmail.com>

On 3/14/06, Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
> Andrew Dudzik wrote:
> > On 3/14/06, *Atul Varma* <varmaa at gmail.com <mailto:varmaa at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >     CVS just plain sucks compared to its competition
> >
> >
> >  Allow me to introduce you to a little program called VSS...
>
> I think the better statement would be that CVS compares to SVN, and
> mostly sucks compared to the new generation of distributed VC systems --
> but it's really easy to compare CVS to SVN, and not as easy to compare
> to the other systems (the distributed-vs-centralized debate is seperate
> from the quality-of-tool debate).

Hmm.  I'd give Subversion more credit than that.  Subversion is a CVS
replacement, but it's *light years* ahead of CVS in just about every
aspect.  I think CVS is pretty much dead and Subversion will continue
to happily swallow up CVS' market share.  See

http://subversion.tigris.org/svn-dav-securityspace-survey.html

> But notably every new generation of systems works from the CVS *model*
> as a basis.  SVN copies is very closely.  Distributed systems change it,
> but use CVS as their point of reference for changes.  And all those
> other proprietary systems are just dead ends.  (Except probably
> BitKeeper, which has been very influential)

The biggest problem with the myriad distributed VC systems out there
today is that they don't really integrate with the developer tools out
there (Eclipse, IntelliJ, Xcode, etc.).

The second biggest problem is that there are a bazillion of them and
no clear leader has emerged.

-Fitz, a clearly biased Subversion developer

From ianb at colorstudy.com  Thu Mar 16 21:47:17 2006
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:47:17 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Sprint, Imagescape
In-Reply-To: <a5375ad50603161230o16270ecxf6d4e5813d77f8a9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <441658B6.5090503@colorstudy.com>	<62A8BD19-D59B-4D1E-BF33-CE3741CEC0CF@sent.com>	<44170E94.6050001@colorstudy.com>	<361b27370603141112l68a5817h32e2dc71b6c1f56d@mail.gmail.com>	<55885.4.17.250.5.1142364485.squirrel@webmail.psys.org>	<361b27370603141213i31f20ef8wb1d5c5265b0f5010@mail.gmail.com>	<c05d6d5b0603141220j6d099d27pb85c76b07c822127@mail.gmail.com>	<4417313E.3000100@colorstudy.com>
	<a5375ad50603161230o16270ecxf6d4e5813d77f8a9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4419CED5.30005@colorstudy.com>

Brian W. Fitzpatrick wrote:
> On 3/14/06, Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
> 
>>Andrew Dudzik wrote:
>>
>>>On 3/14/06, *Atul Varma* <varmaa at gmail.com <mailto:varmaa at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>    CVS just plain sucks compared to its competition
>>>
>>>
>>> Allow me to introduce you to a little program called VSS...
>>
>>I think the better statement would be that CVS compares to SVN, and
>>mostly sucks compared to the new generation of distributed VC systems --
>>but it's really easy to compare CVS to SVN, and not as easy to compare
>>to the other systems (the distributed-vs-centralized debate is seperate
>>from the quality-of-tool debate).
> 
> 
> Hmm.  I'd give Subversion more credit than that.  Subversion is a CVS
> replacement, but it's *light years* ahead of CVS in just about every
> aspect.  I think CVS is pretty much dead and Subversion will continue
> to happily swallow up CVS' market share.  See
> 
> http://subversion.tigris.org/svn-dav-securityspace-survey.html

I don't know what I actually meant to write; reading over what I wrote, 
apparently I left out some words.  I meant to say that CVS sucks 
compared to SVN, and CVS sucks compared to the distributed systems too. 
  Except maybe Arch, which seems just as crufty as CVS.  Haha, we can 
pick on Arch because it is dead.  (Or is making fun of the dead gauche?)

>>But notably every new generation of systems works from the CVS *model*
>>as a basis.  SVN copies is very closely.  Distributed systems change it,
>>but use CVS as their point of reference for changes.  And all those
>>other proprietary systems are just dead ends.  (Except probably
>>BitKeeper, which has been very influential)
> 
> 
> The biggest problem with the myriad distributed VC systems out there
> today is that they don't really integrate with the developer tools out
> there (Eclipse, IntelliJ, Xcode, etc.).

I've never really noticed this, but I don't use any tools (I just 
generate WebDAV requests by hand).  My problem with the distributed 
systems is that while they solve some process problems, they don't give 
any guidance about how to do CVS/SVN-style centralized development.  I 
like the idea of an escape hatch, but the bulk of development fits with 
how SVN works now.  Accomodating *only* the exceptional cases is a 
little silly.  And svn has become one of my primary filesharing 
protocols, which seems a bit heavy but I guess it works.


-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org

From bray at sent.com  Fri Mar 17 21:38:42 2006
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 14:38:42 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChipyChipySprint Reminder
Message-ID: <00523594-C7D1-4E92-9E27-BA4D797348A3@sent.com>

Hello:

This is a friendly reminder that it's not too late to sign up for the  
ChipyChipySprint <http://www.chipy.org/ChipyChipySprint>. We need all  
the help we can get... hung over or not. No prior experience  
required. If you know Python, this is good. Although, just about  
anybody can chipy in.

See you tomorrow at Imaginary Landscape. Let me know if you need to  
be picked up from a nearby L station.

Thanks,

Brian Ray

From ianb at colorstudy.com  Fri Mar 17 22:05:41 2006
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 15:05:41 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChipyChipySprint Reminder
In-Reply-To: <00523594-C7D1-4E92-9E27-BA4D797348A3@sent.com>
References: <00523594-C7D1-4E92-9E27-BA4D797348A3@sent.com>
Message-ID: <441B24A5.6070407@colorstudy.com>

Brian Ray wrote:
> Hello:
> 
> This is a friendly reminder that it's not too late to sign up for the  
> ChipyChipySprint <http://www.chipy.org/ChipyChipySprint>. We need all  
> the help we can get... hung over or not. No prior experience  
> required. If you know Python, this is good. Although, just about  
> anybody can chipy in.

Yikes, that's a pretty bad pun :P

There will be free pizza too!  And free coffee!

Sadly, there will be no free beer.  But we are free to bring beer.


-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Fri Mar 17 22:08:00 2006
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 15:08:00 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChipyChipySprint Reminder
In-Reply-To: <441B24A5.6070407@colorstudy.com>
References: <00523594-C7D1-4E92-9E27-BA4D797348A3@sent.com>
	<441B24A5.6070407@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0603171308r34b9bb99t45d8c9afd58a9887@mail.gmail.com>

On 3/17/06, Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
> Yikes, that's a pretty bad pun :P

No such thing.  All puns are bad...in a good way.

Chris

From bray at sent.com  Fri Mar 17 22:20:13 2006
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 15:20:13 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChipyChipySprint Reminder
In-Reply-To: <441B24A5.6070407@colorstudy.com>
References: <00523594-C7D1-4E92-9E27-BA4D797348A3@sent.com>
	<441B24A5.6070407@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <C39AC6F9-F7D0-4312-8AF6-3A6996EE3F58@sent.com>


On Mar 17, 2006, at 3:05 PM, Ian Bicking wrote:

>> anybody can chipy in.
>
> Yikes, that's a pretty bad pun :P

Maybe it was a typo ; )



From mtobis at gmail.com  Fri Mar 17 22:27:50 2006
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 15:27:50 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChipyChipySprint Reminder
In-Reply-To: <C39AC6F9-F7D0-4312-8AF6-3A6996EE3F58@sent.com>
References: <00523594-C7D1-4E92-9E27-BA4D797348A3@sent.com>
	<441B24A5.6070407@colorstudy.com>
	<C39AC6F9-F7D0-4312-8AF6-3A6996EE3F58@sent.com>
Message-ID: <c3aa55550603171327w2c6e6be6l2333d8544b1bbefc@mail.gmail.com>

I signed up. I also changed "memebers" to "members", but perhaps we
should track memebers as well.

mt

From jbalint at gmail.com  Sat Mar 18 15:59:47 2006
From: jbalint at gmail.com (Jess Balint)
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 09:59:47 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] ChipyChipySprint Reminder
In-Reply-To: <00523594-C7D1-4E92-9E27-BA4D797348A3@sent.com>
Message-ID: <441c2068.4084a938.3bcd.ffff8f04@mx.gmail.com>

Hey - Wanted to see if you might have room to pick someone up at the train
station on your way. I would probably come up the brown line to Damen or
Montrose (Red line if it's more convenient). Thanks.

Jess

-----Original Message-----
From: chicago-bounces at python.org [mailto:chicago-bounces at python.org] On
Behalf Of Brian Ray
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 3:39 PM
To: The Chicago Python Users Group
Subject: [Chicago] ChipyChipySprint Reminder

Hello:

This is a friendly reminder that it's not too late to sign up for the  
ChipyChipySprint <http://www.chipy.org/ChipyChipySprint>. We need all  
the help we can get... hung over or not. No prior experience  
required. If you know Python, this is good. Although, just about  
anybody can chipy in.

See you tomorrow at Imaginary Landscape. Let me know if you need to  
be picked up from a nearby L station.

Thanks,

Brian Ray
_______________________________________________
Chicago mailing list
Chicago at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From mtobis at gmail.com  Sun Mar 19 04:44:27 2006
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 21:44:27 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Newbie meeting next Saturday
Message-ID: <c3aa55550603181944hf22af48kb6e61d90df5689c9@mail.gmail.com>

Seventeen signed up. It's definitely a go. If you know someone who
desperately wants to attend let me know ASAP. I'll be closing
registration soon.

Michael

From rich.424 at gmail.com  Sun Mar 19 04:52:04 2006
From: rich.424 at gmail.com (Richard)
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 21:52:04 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Newbie meeting next Saturday
In-Reply-To: <c3aa55550603181944hf22af48kb6e61d90df5689c9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c3aa55550603181944hf22af48kb6e61d90df5689c9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <441CD564.80501@gmail.com>

Hi Michael I would like to sign up.

Thanks

Richard

Michael Tobis wrote:
> Seventeen signed up. It's definitely a go. If you know someone who
> desperately wants to attend let me know ASAP. I'll be closing
> registration soon.
>
> Michael
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>   


From rs at fluxhq.com  Sun Mar 19 05:26:35 2006
From: rs at fluxhq.com (Rohit Sankaran)
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 22:26:35 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Sprint Follow-up
Message-ID: <e1ac2a920603182026s3677ebf2l480b73cb7e6ea4e1@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

Just wanted to thank Brian for organizing the sprint and Ian for hosting it
and the pizza. Thanks guys, it was fun.

See you around,

-rohit
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20060318/7a8e4ea9/attachment.htm 

From jason at hostedlabs.com  Mon Mar 20 21:01:32 2006
From: jason at hostedlabs.com (Jason Rexilius)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:01:32 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chicago BAR camp
Message-ID: <441F0A1C.8070203@hostedlabs.com>

Hello all,

  At the last Python users group I attended I mentioned real quickly
that I was going to be starting a BAR camp for chicago. Well that
process has begun and I wanted to tell everyone about it.

  Quick summary for those who don't know the BAR camp concept sprung
from OReilly's FOO camp and is generally a an informal party/conference
about technology innovation and collaboration where participants can
pitch ideas, present their work, or brainstorm on new developments.

The official line goes:

"BarCamp is an ad-hoc un-conference born from the desire for people to
share and learn in an open environment. It is an intense event with
discussions, demos, and interaction from attendees."

  Either way its something you all will be familiar with, but not
language specific.

  The wiki site is up at:

 http://barcampchicago.com/

  You can see about the other BAR camps here:

http://www.sfist.com/archives/2005/08/23/barcamp_2005.php

http://barcamp.org/BarCampAustinI

http://amitgupta.com/blog/shoebox/2006/01/17/barcamp-nyc-its-over/

 Where I am at in the process is just starting to look for a venue (the
biggest and most difficult part).

  Well I hope everyone finds this at least interesting and I welcome any
feedback.  And I really hope some of you participate!  Thanks!

-jason



From matt at thenashgroup.net  Tue Mar 21 19:15:39 2006
From: matt at thenashgroup.net (Matt Carpenter)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 10:15:39 -0800
Subject: [Chicago] Satellite Imaging Engineer Opportunity in Southern
	California
Message-ID: <20060321181227.VWRA26964.fed1rmmtao08.cox.net@Mat>

My name is Matt Carpenter and I manage a recruiting company in San Diego
California. One of my most impressive clients in Southern California is
looking for a Satellite Systems Engineer. The position requires and advanced
understanding of satellite imaging and a proven track record of innovation.
The job highlights are below and my motivation is a 12 on a scale from 1-10!
I was wondering if you might know any qualified candidates you could refer
to me?
  
Please contact me or have them contact me ASAP at matt at thenashgroup.net  Or
reply to my e-mail.
Experience should include writing plans and test procedures for large-scale
engineering systems incorporating requirement analysis and high level design
documentation. 6-10 years experience in large development projects;  or
satellite ground station projects. Experience with satellite remote sensing
or imaging systems development preferred. Proven experience using formal
system engineering methodologies for requirements, analysis, design,
integration and testing. 
University degree in Applied Sciences / Engineering or Computer Science.
Generic/extensible programming techniques in Python or other dynamic
languages.  A working knowledge of GNU Command-line tools (sed, awk, xargs,
grep, .. etc).
Thanks in advance,
 
 
Matt Carpenter
The Nash Group
619.851.2614
 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20060321/c39b0da1/attachment.html 

From beau at open-source-staffing.com  Tue Mar 21 22:22:48 2006
From: beau at open-source-staffing.com (Beau Gould)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 16:22:48 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] [JOB] Python/C++ Developer, Greenwich,
	CT | 80-160k | Relo/H1B OK
Message-ID: <007c01c64d2d$9b46e6e0$0a02a8c0@superioss.com>

Python/C++ Developer, Greenwich, CT | 80-160k | Relo/H1B OK

Client will pay full relocation expenses. 

My Greenwich, CT client is looking for programmers fluent in Python and C++ to build and improve systems in a variety of areas, including mathematical programming, parallel computing, network servers, and user interfaces. They are a relatively small, but rapidly growing company offering opportunity for growth and creativity in a resource-rich environment.

Requirements:
* Strong experience in Python and C++
* Financial programming experience a plus

All candidates will be considered (H1, H1B, Canadian, etc) but you must currently be residing in the USA or Canada.  No oversea relocations. 

If you are interested in this position and are 100% ready to move to Greenwich, CT, please submit your resume, a paragraph or cover letter highlighting your C++ and Python experience and your salary requirements to beau at open-source-staffing.com


Thank you,
Beau J. Gould

Open Source Staffing
beau at open-source-staffing.com
www.open-source-staffing.com


Other Python and/or Zope positions posted here: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pythonzopejobs 

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.6/286 - Release Date: 3/20/2006
 


From PRobare at chx.com  Wed Mar 22 15:51:51 2006
From: PRobare at chx.com (Robare, Phil)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:51:51 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Looking for a web host
Message-ID: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB6BC@MX3.chx.com>

I am going to need to get a new web domain soon and would like some
advice from those more knowledgeable about who's good and what makes for
a good deal, gotcha's to watch out for, etc.  It will probably be pretty
simple, mostly static content but with some CGI (in Python of course);
more images than text (it's for a photographer); mail forwarding and sub
domains are also desired; possible web commerce in the future.

So, any advice where I should go and what I should expect to pay.
Looking around I see some places with prices so low I know they can't be
doing much more than supplying electricity.  Others want to smother you
in the soft fluffyness of their proprietary web page design software
(one place I looked at talked about how you get up to four(!) web pages
with their intro package), others require you to run Windoze and access
them through some sort of client.  That may be fine for mass market but
I am looking for something like a basic Apache on Linux package.

Thanks in advance.

Phil

From rich.424 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 22 15:59:46 2006
From: rich.424 at gmail.com (Richard)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:59:46 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Looking for a web host
In-Reply-To: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB6BC@MX3.chx.com>
References: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB6BC@MX3.chx.com>
Message-ID: <44216662.3020803@gmail.com>

Hi Phil the website I maintain uses IXwebhosting dot com. We have been 
real happy with them, good uptime, good customer support. Fair prices 
(in my opinion). We pay annually which lowers the price some.

We also use OsCommerce, which is provided for our online store.

I would suggest you check out all the features and what they offer to 
see if it fits what you have in mind.

Like I said though, I can't knock them, we have been pleased.

Richard


Robare, Phil wrote:
> I am going to need to get a new web domain soon and would like some
> advice from those more knowledgeable about who's good and what makes for
> a good deal, gotcha's to watch out for, etc.  It will probably be pretty
> simple, mostly static content but with some CGI (in Python of course);
> more images than text (it's for a photographer); mail forwarding and sub
> domains are also desired; possible web commerce in the future.
>
> So, any advice where I should go and what I should expect to pay.
> Looking around I see some places with prices so low I know they can't be
> doing much more than supplying electricity.  Others want to smother you
> in the soft fluffyness of their proprietary web page design software
> (one place I looked at talked about how you get up to four(!) web pages
> with their intro package), others require you to run Windoze and access
> them through some sort of client.  That may be fine for mass market but
> I am looking for something like a basic Apache on Linux package.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Phil
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>   


From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Wed Mar 22 16:10:46 2006
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:10:46 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Looking for a web host
In-Reply-To: <44216662.3020803@gmail.com>
References: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB6BC@MX3.chx.com>
	<44216662.3020803@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0603220710j45aa33c8s547fa8c73932766e@mail.gmail.com>

I've used Dreamhost for several projects, and have been happy. 
They're pretty up on the fastcgi-based new style frameworks (Django,
Turbogears, Pylons, anything Paste based...rails (eeep!)), and
relatively cheap.  For ~$20 you get a good amount of disk, unlimited
hosted domains, email, shell access, subversion, cvs, and a bunch of
other stuff.

You also get referrel fees...so if you go with them, tell them cmcavoy
(chris.mcavoy at gmail.com, lonelylion.com, tastebudchicago.com) sent
you.

I had a dedicated host through Serverbeach for about a year or
so...they were great, and really cheap ($129 / month) for a fully
dedicated host.

Chris

From jason at hostedlabs.com  Wed Mar 22 16:13:42 2006
From: jason at hostedlabs.com (Jason Rexilius)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:13:42 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Looking for a web host
In-Reply-To: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB6BC@MX3.chx.com>
References: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB6BC@MX3.chx.com>
Message-ID: <442169A6.3040500@hostedlabs.com>

Are you looking for mod_python or CGI?  As far as cheap and good I would
say www.omnis.com is a good one.  They have a very nice web interface
and file manager, but also support FTP, WebDAV, and frontpage I think.
They run linux but you can pay extra if you need windows.

Locally I've heard bad things about Fastroot, CherryOne, and Hostway
(although as always take that with a grain of salt).  I've heard good
things about Realnets, ServerCentral, and Tilted.

My company does highly specialized hosting and would likely be outside
the price range you are looking for.

As far as how much to pay, most base packages would fit your needs
unless you expect the site to do _A LOT_ of traffic (or get
slashdotted/digged).  Most base packages with CGI are in the $10-$20/mo
area.

mod_python is a more interesting proposition and I should think a google
search for hosting company and mod_python would narrow it down.


> I am going to need to get a new web domain soon and would like some
> advice from those more knowledgeable about who's good and what makes for
> a good deal, gotcha's to watch out for, etc.  It will probably be pretty
> simple, mostly static content but with some CGI (in Python of course);
> more images than text (it's for a photographer); mail forwarding and sub
> domains are also desired; possible web commerce in the future.
> 
> So, any advice where I should go and what I should expect to pay.
> Looking around I see some places with prices so low I know they can't be
> doing much more than supplying electricity.  Others want to smother you
> in the soft fluffyness of their proprietary web page design software
> (one place I looked at talked about how you get up to four(!) web pages
> with their intro package), others require you to run Windoze and access
> them through some sort of client.  That may be fine for mass market but
> I am looking for something like a basic Apache on Linux package.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Phil
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From ray at nd.edu  Wed Mar 22 16:12:07 2006
From: ray at nd.edu (Ray Hernandez)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 10:12:07 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Looking for a web host
In-Reply-To: <44216662.3020803@gmail.com>
References: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB6BC@MX3.chx.com>
	<44216662.3020803@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060322151206.GA10670@localdomain>

Robare, Phil wrote:
> So, any advice where I should go and what I should expect to pay.
> Looking around I see some places with prices so low I know they can't be
> doing much more than supplying electricity.  Others want to smother you
> in the soft fluffyness of their proprietary web page design software
> (one place I looked at talked about how you get up to four(!) web pages
> with their intro package), others require you to run Windoze and access
> them through some sort of client.  That may be fine for mass market but
> I am looking for something like a basic Apache on Linux package.

My favorite host for personal stuff, as well as for the sheer haxor factor
is Linode(http://www.linode.com.) They are a virtual hosting provider, you
can elect to do UML or XEN kernels. Packages start at $20 a month, and they
have a nice user community. You basically get your pick of a half dozen or
so popular distros, they create a bare image of whichever distro you go
with, then they pretty much hand you the keys and go. 

I have never had any problems with the service. When I upgraded to a bigger
package, they did a migration that was seamless and had no downtime that I
could tell.

Best thing of all, I got to run whatever I wanted on it. YMMV.
--Ray
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 191 bytes
Desc: Digital signature
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20060322/78268c09/attachment.pgp 

From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Mar 22 18:48:47 2006
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:48:47 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] IlliPy (Champaign-Urbana's) Python User Group Kickoff
 Meeting	4/26 @ 7PM
Message-ID: <44218DFF.3080100@colorstudy.com>

A new group to the south... pass it on if you know someone down that way 
that might be interested...

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: ANN: IlliPy (Champaign-Urbana's) Python User Group Kickoff 
Meeting	4/26 @ 7PM
Date: 21 Mar 2006 21:04:26 -0800
From: mbbx6spp <mbbx6spp at gmail.com>

Venue: Giuliani (next to Murphy's Bar)
Date: Wednesday April 26, 2006
Time: 7PM
URL: http://illipy.tautology.net/events

This is the kickoff meeting for the Champaign-Urbana Python User Group
(called IlliPy). We will be talking about upcoming Python talks, open
source project initiatives and the Python user group book club
initiative.

Please visit http://illipy.tautology.net for more details and if
interested in attending meetings please subscribe to the IlliPy
announcement mailing list at:
http://groups.google.com/group/illipy-announce

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Wed Mar 22 18:59:58 2006
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:59:58 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] IlliPy (Champaign-Urbana's) Python User Group Kickoff
	Meeting 4/26 @ 7PM
In-Reply-To: <44218DFF.3080100@colorstudy.com>
References: <44218DFF.3080100@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0603220959m511aaf55tffc8adb6b8a2ce03@mail.gmail.com>

On 3/22/06, Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
> A new group to the south... pass it on if you know someone down that way
> that might be interested...

We're obligated to fight these guys...right?

Chris

From jason at hostedlabs.com  Wed Mar 22 19:08:27 2006
From: jason at hostedlabs.com (Jason Rexilius)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:08:27 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] IlliPy (Champaign-Urbana's) Python User Group Kickoff
 Meeting 4/26 @ 7PM
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0603220959m511aaf55tffc8adb6b8a2ce03@mail.gmail.com>
References: <44218DFF.3080100@colorstudy.com>
	<3096c19d0603220959m511aaf55tffc8adb6b8a2ce03@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4421929B.6040709@hostedlabs.com>

when you're a chipmonk, you're a chipmonk all the way,
 From your first cigarette To your last dying day..

oy.. I need a beer..

> On 3/22/06, Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
> 
>>A new group to the south... pass it on if you know someone down that way
>>that might be interested...
> 
> 
> We're obligated to fight these guys...right?
> 
> Chris
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar 22 19:13:43 2006
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:13:43 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] IlliPy (Champaign-Urbana's) Python User Group Kickoff
 Meeting 4/26 @ 7PM
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0603220959m511aaf55tffc8adb6b8a2ce03@mail.gmail.com>
References: <44218DFF.3080100@colorstudy.com>
	<3096c19d0603220959m511aaf55tffc8adb6b8a2ce03@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <17441.37847.730522.125220@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Chris> We're obligated to fight these guys...right?

It looks like West Side Story all over again.  But can you dance?

Skip

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Wed Mar 22 19:22:45 2006
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:22:45 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] IlliPy (Champaign-Urbana's) Python User Group Kickoff
	Meeting 4/26 @ 7PM
In-Reply-To: <17441.37847.730522.125220@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <44218DFF.3080100@colorstudy.com>
	<3096c19d0603220959m511aaf55tffc8adb6b8a2ce03@mail.gmail.com>
	<17441.37847.730522.125220@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0603221022v6ae087d1o15ba3af8de00b0c5@mail.gmail.com>

> It looks like West Side Story all over again.  But can you dance?

Has anyone seen this "perlwar" thing? http://babyl.dyndns.org/perlwar 
Where you right code that tries to take over an array?  It's kind of
clever...in a perl golf sort of way.

We should make up a Python equivilant, and then challenge these folks
in a take-all fight for Python power in Illinois.

Of course, now that I've suggested it (re: recent sprint) my
involvement is at an end.  Brian Ray will take it from here.

Also, in answer to the original question: "hell yes I can dance."  I
just stood up and did a little twirl.  People in the office can back
me up on this.

Chris

On 3/22/06, skip at pobox.com <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
>
>     Chris> We're obligated to fight these guys...right?
>
> It looks like West Side Story all over again.  But can you dance?
>
> Skip
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From skip at pobox.com  Wed Mar 22 19:35:42 2006
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:35:42 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] IlliPy (Champaign-Urbana's) Python User Group Kickoff
 Meeting 4/26 @ 7PM
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0603221022v6ae087d1o15ba3af8de00b0c5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <44218DFF.3080100@colorstudy.com>
	<3096c19d0603220959m511aaf55tffc8adb6b8a2ce03@mail.gmail.com>
	<17441.37847.730522.125220@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<3096c19d0603221022v6ae087d1o15ba3af8de00b0c5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <17441.39166.21543.249009@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Chris> Has anyone seen this "perlwar" thing?
    Chris> http://babyl.dyndns.org/perlwar Where you right code that tries
    Chris> to take over an array?  It's kind of clever...in a perl golf sort
    Chris> of way.

Sounds kind of like Core Wars.  Started in 1984 with a column by
A.K. Dewdney in Scientific American.

    http://mcraeclan.com/Graeme/CoreWars.htm

Skip


From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Wed Mar 22 19:42:39 2006
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:42:39 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] IlliPy (Champaign-Urbana's) Python User Group Kickoff
	Meeting 4/26 @ 7PM
In-Reply-To: <17441.39166.21543.249009@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <44218DFF.3080100@colorstudy.com>
	<3096c19d0603220959m511aaf55tffc8adb6b8a2ce03@mail.gmail.com>
	<17441.37847.730522.125220@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<3096c19d0603221022v6ae087d1o15ba3af8de00b0c5@mail.gmail.com>
	<17441.39166.21543.249009@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0603221042m652c8a97k9a0f436fe24c4493@mail.gmail.com>

On 3/22/06, skip at pobox.com <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
> Sounds kind of like Core Wars.  Started in 1984 with a column by
> A.K. Dewdney in Scientific American.
>
>     http://mcraeclan.com/Graeme/CoreWars.htm

Yep, that's it exactly.  The perlwars guys acknowledge that it's a
corewars port.

Chris

From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Mar 22 20:14:37 2006
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:14:37 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] IlliPy (Champaign-Urbana's) Python User Group Kickoff
 Meeting 4/26 @ 7PM
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0603221022v6ae087d1o15ba3af8de00b0c5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <44218DFF.3080100@colorstudy.com>	<3096c19d0603220959m511aaf55tffc8adb6b8a2ce03@mail.gmail.com>	<17441.37847.730522.125220@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<3096c19d0603221022v6ae087d1o15ba3af8de00b0c5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4421A21D.8090401@colorstudy.com>

Chris McAvoy wrote:
>>It looks like West Side Story all over again.  But can you dance?
> 
> 
> Has anyone seen this "perlwar" thing? http://babyl.dyndns.org/perlwar 
> Where you right code that tries to take over an array?  It's kind of
> clever...in a perl golf sort of way.
> 
> We should make up a Python equivilant, and then challenge these folks
> in a take-all fight for Python power in Illinois.

If we could figure out what the contest would be, maybe pycontest.net 
could run it or something.  It's been months, they clearly need a new 
contest.


-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org

From ianb at colorstudy.com  Thu Mar 23 20:25:07 2006
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 13:25:07 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] PyLEA
Message-ID: <4422F613.1060300@colorstudy.com>

Vaguely related to corewars and the like: 
http://eval.ce.itu.edu.tr/software/pylea

It's a framework for evolutionary algorithms.  Maybe more serious than 
corewars.  But still, evolutionary algorithms just *have* to be cool 
given the name.

-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org

From maney at two14.net  Thu Mar 23 20:29:55 2006
From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney)
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 13:29:55 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] PyLEA
In-Reply-To: <4422F613.1060300@colorstudy.com>
References: <4422F613.1060300@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <20060323192955.GA12014@furrr.two14.net>

On Thu, Mar 23, 2006 at 01:25:07PM -0600, Ian Bicking wrote:
> corewars.  But still, evolutionary algorithms just *have* to be cool 
> given the name.

You're just prejudiced because your granddad was an ape!  :-)

-- 
To read a book, to think it over, and to write out notes
is a useful exercise; a book which will not repay some hard thought 
is not worth publishing.  -- Maria Mitchell


From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Thu Mar 23 21:50:54 2006
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 14:50:54 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] PyLEA
In-Reply-To: <20060323192955.GA12014@furrr.two14.net>
References: <4422F613.1060300@colorstudy.com>
	<20060323192955.GA12014@furrr.two14.net>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0603231250j79c11ed0uf89b803aeaef22bd@mail.gmail.com>

Do these algorithms fight?  Because I want them to fight.

Chris

From ray at nd.edu  Thu Mar 23 21:55:21 2006
From: ray at nd.edu (Ray Hernandez)
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 15:55:21 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] PyLEA
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0603231250j79c11ed0uf89b803aeaef22bd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4422F613.1060300@colorstudy.com>
	<20060323192955.GA12014@furrr.two14.net>
	<3096c19d0603231250j79c11ed0uf89b803aeaef22bd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060323205519.GD19181@localdomain>

On Thu, Mar 23, 2006 at 02:50:54PM -0600, Chris McAvoy wrote:
> Do these algorithms fight?  Because I want them to fight.
> 

Maybe this would be a good topic for those that are going to the Chicago
BarCamp. Someone could have a discussion about "Making Python Programs
Fight." And then you could throw in an AJAX aware Roomba and some high speed
photography or something to make it Web 2.0 compatible.
--Ray
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 191 bytes
Desc: Digital signature
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20060323/fd219431/attachment.pgp 

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Thu Mar 23 22:03:06 2006
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 15:03:06 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] PyLEA
In-Reply-To: <20060323205519.GD19181@localdomain>
References: <4422F613.1060300@colorstudy.com>
	<20060323192955.GA12014@furrr.two14.net>
	<3096c19d0603231250j79c11ed0uf89b803aeaef22bd@mail.gmail.com>
	<20060323205519.GD19181@localdomain>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0603231303k55889604j7a6b698c50e6810@mail.gmail.com>

On 3/23/06, Ray Hernandez <ray at nd.edu> wrote:
> And then you could throw in an AJAX aware Roomba and some high speed
> photography or something to make it Web 2.0 compatible.
> --Ray

I sense sarcasm.  However, I just bought a roomba...purely because
they include a port that makes it super easy to override their
roomba-brain.  The example code included in the documentation? 
Python!  Hurrah!

Chris

From ray at nd.edu  Thu Mar 23 22:07:18 2006
From: ray at nd.edu (Ray Hernandez)
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:07:18 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] PyLEA
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0603231303k55889604j7a6b698c50e6810@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4422F613.1060300@colorstudy.com>
	<20060323192955.GA12014@furrr.two14.net>
	<3096c19d0603231250j79c11ed0uf89b803aeaef22bd@mail.gmail.com>
	<20060323205519.GD19181@localdomain>
	<3096c19d0603231303k55889604j7a6b698c50e6810@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060323210716.GA23019@localdomain>

On Thu, Mar 23, 2006 at 03:03:06PM -0600, Chris McAvoy wrote:
> I sense sarcasm.  However, I just bought a roomba...purely because
> they include a port that makes it super easy to override their
> roomba-brain.  The example code included in the documentation? 
> Python!  Hurrah!

Actually my sarcasm was targetted more so towards "Web 2.0." I did however
purchase a Roomba myself last week. I am interested in hacksing it, but I
lack the skill to make a cable for the Roomba. :-(
--Ray
-- 
Ray Hernandez
Systems Administrator
Messaging Services
Office of Information Technology
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 191 bytes
Desc: Digital signature
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20060323/4e185d64/attachment.pgp 

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Thu Mar 23 22:13:09 2006
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 15:13:09 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] PyLEA
In-Reply-To: <20060323210716.GA23019@localdomain>
References: <4422F613.1060300@colorstudy.com>
	<20060323192955.GA12014@furrr.two14.net>
	<3096c19d0603231250j79c11ed0uf89b803aeaef22bd@mail.gmail.com>
	<20060323205519.GD19181@localdomain>
	<3096c19d0603231303k55889604j7a6b698c50e6810@mail.gmail.com>
	<20060323210716.GA23019@localdomain>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0603231313x1f4ef2c9x7d3f0ca2813fc15f@mail.gmail.com>

On 3/23/06, Ray Hernandez <ray at nd.edu> wrote:
> Actually my sarcasm was targetted more so towards "Web 2.0." I did however
> purchase a Roomba myself last week. I am interested in hacksing it, but I
> lack the skill to make a cable for the Roomba. :-(

This is 70% shameless self-pluggery, but 30% will actually help you out

http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7403

That article is about a cat feeder I made that uses a serial port on a
linux box to talk to a microcontrolled cat feeder.  The
microcontroller is really easy to use.  I plan on using that basic
idea to talk to my roomba at some point.

Chris

From chris at copester.com  Sun Mar 26 22:22:50 2006
From: chris at copester.com (Chris Cope)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 14:22:50 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Using globals across files
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0603231250j79c11ed0uf89b803aeaef22bd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4422F613.1060300@colorstudy.com>	<20060323192955.GA12014@furrr.two14.net>
	<3096c19d0603231250j79c11ed0uf89b803aeaef22bd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4426F81A.3030409@copester.com>

I'd like to set global varibles and use them across files, but can't 
find out how to do this (if it's possible). I'm using it for keeping 
track of unit tests, and believe a global is the right solution, rather 
than something like passing testsPassed and testsRun to Test(). Google 
doesnt return a solution, just other people with the same problem. Any 
ideas?

I get the error "NameError: global name 'testsPassed' is not defined" 
when trying to increment it in tests.py. The code follows.

Thanks,
Chris

# File tests.py
import inspect

def Test(cond):
     global testsPassed
     global testsRun
     if cond:
         testsPassed += 1
     testsRun += 1



# File MyTests.py

global testsRun
global testsPassed
testsRun = 0
testsPassed = 0

import tests

def runTest1():
     x = 0
     y = 0
     tests.Test(x == y)

runTest1()
print "Summary:", testsPassed, "of", testsRun, "test(s) passed."

From deadwisdom at gmail.com  Mon Mar 27 07:50:36 2006
From: deadwisdom at gmail.com (Brant Harris)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 23:50:36 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Using globals across files
In-Reply-To: <4426F81A.3030409@copester.com>
References: <4422F613.1060300@colorstudy.com>
	<20060323192955.GA12014@furrr.two14.net>
	<3096c19d0603231250j79c11ed0uf89b803aeaef22bd@mail.gmail.com>
	<4426F81A.3030409@copester.com>
Message-ID: <694c06d60603262150lf8c1360n3acb8969ae610624@mail.gmail.com>

Globals aren't exactly "globals" like you probably think of them. 
Really a global is just a module-level variable.  There is no
construct for a totally global variable.  But that's okay, because I
don't think you really want that.  What you probably want is a class
that will store that info.  But perhaps you just want something
quicker, or just easier.  In that case, declare and initiate to 0 the
variables "testsPassed" and "testsRun" in "tests.py", instead of in
MyTests.py.  Then after you "import tests", you can reference them as
"tests.testsPassed" and "tests.testsRun".  So to the imported module
the variables are "globals", but to the code that imports that module
(MyTests.py in this case) the variables are properties of the "tests"
module.

On 3/26/06, Chris Cope <chris at copester.com> wrote:
> I'd like to set global varibles and use them across files, but can't
> find out how to do this (if it's possible). I'm using it for keeping
> track of unit tests, and believe a global is the right solution, rather
> than something like passing testsPassed and testsRun to Test(). Google
> doesnt return a solution, just other people with the same problem. Any
> ideas?
>
> I get the error "NameError: global name 'testsPassed' is not defined"
> when trying to increment it in tests.py. The code follows.
>
> Thanks,
> Chris
>
> # File tests.py
> import inspect
>
> def Test(cond):
>      global testsPassed
>      global testsRun
>      if cond:
>          testsPassed += 1
>      testsRun += 1
>
>
>
> # File MyTests.py
>
> global testsRun
> global testsPassed
> testsRun = 0
> testsPassed = 0
>
> import tests
>
> def runTest1():
>      x = 0
>      y = 0
>      tests.Test(x == y)
>
> runTest1()
> print "Summary:", testsPassed, "of", testsRun, "test(s) passed."
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From chris at copester.com  Mon Mar 27 18:39:49 2006
From: chris at copester.com (Chris Cope)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:39:49 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Using globals across files
In-Reply-To: <694c06d60603262150lf8c1360n3acb8969ae610624@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4422F613.1060300@colorstudy.com>	<20060323192955.GA12014@furrr.two14.net>	<3096c19d0603231250j79c11ed0uf89b803aeaef22bd@mail.gmail.com>	<4426F81A.3030409@copester.com>
	<694c06d60603262150lf8c1360n3acb8969ae610624@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <44281555.9080808@copester.com>

You're right, having MyTests reference tests.testsRun is probably the 
better approach anyway. In 4 years of programming with python, I've 
never used globals before, and had no idea seamlessly sharing them 
between files, like with an external in C, wasn't feasible. :)

Thanks for the help,
Chris

Brant Harris wrote:
> Globals aren't exactly "globals" like you probably think of them. 
> Really a global is just a module-level variable.  There is no
> construct for a totally global variable.  But that's okay, because I
> don't think you really want that.  What you probably want is a class
> that will store that info.  But perhaps you just want something
> quicker, or just easier.  In that case, declare and initiate to 0 the
> variables "testsPassed" and "testsRun" in "tests.py", instead of in
> MyTests.py.  Then after you "import tests", you can reference them as
> "tests.testsPassed" and "tests.testsRun".  So to the imported module
> the variables are "globals", but to the code that imports that module
> (MyTests.py in this case) the variables are properties of the "tests"
> module.
> 
> On 3/26/06, Chris Cope <chris at copester.com> wrote:
> 
>>I'd like to set global varibles and use them across files, but can't
>>find out how to do this (if it's possible). I'm using it for keeping
>>track of unit tests, and believe a global is the right solution, rather
>>than something like passing testsPassed and testsRun to Test(). Google
>>doesnt return a solution, just other people with the same problem. Any
>>ideas?
>>
>>I get the error "NameError: global name 'testsPassed' is not defined"
>>when trying to increment it in tests.py. The code follows.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Chris
>>
>># File tests.py
>>import inspect
>>
>>def Test(cond):
>>     global testsPassed
>>     global testsRun
>>     if cond:
>>         testsPassed += 1
>>     testsRun += 1
>>
>>
>>
>># File MyTests.py
>>
>>global testsRun
>>global testsPassed
>>testsRun = 0
>>testsPassed = 0
>>
>>import tests
>>
>>def runTest1():
>>     x = 0
>>     y = 0
>>     tests.Test(x == y)
>>
>>runTest1()
>>print "Summary:", testsPassed, "of", testsRun, "test(s) passed."
>>_______________________________________________
>>Chicago mailing list
>>Chicago at python.org
>>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From maney at two14.net  Tue Mar 28 23:10:29 2006
From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:10:29 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Using globals across files
In-Reply-To: <44281555.9080808@copester.com>
References: <4422F613.1060300@colorstudy.com>
	<20060323192955.GA12014@furrr.two14.net>
	<3096c19d0603231250j79c11ed0uf89b803aeaef22bd@mail.gmail.com>
	<4426F81A.3030409@copester.com>
	<694c06d60603262150lf8c1360n3acb8969ae610624@mail.gmail.com>
	<44281555.9080808@copester.com>
Message-ID: <20060328211029.GB30393@furrr.two14.net>

On Mon, Mar 27, 2006 at 10:39:49AM -0600, Chris Cope wrote:
> better approach anyway. In 4 years of programming with python, I've 
> never used globals before, and had no idea seamlessly sharing them 
> between files, like with an external in C, wasn't feasible. :)

While Python isn't a bondage & discipline kind of langauge, it doesn't
waste much effort making bad ideas easy, either.  <wink>

This may be one of the real exceptions, but my experience has been that
sharing state though globals is well up on the list of things that will
eventually circle around and bite you in the ass.  Just sayin'.

-- 
Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving there is
no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof. -- JKG


From chris at copester.com  Tue Mar 28 23:18:39 2006
From: chris at copester.com (Chris Cope)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:18:39 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Using globals across files
In-Reply-To: <20060328211029.GB30393@furrr.two14.net>
References: <4422F613.1060300@colorstudy.com>	<20060323192955.GA12014@furrr.two14.net>	<3096c19d0603231250j79c11ed0uf89b803aeaef22bd@mail.gmail.com>	<4426F81A.3030409@copester.com>	<694c06d60603262150lf8c1360n3acb8969ae610624@mail.gmail.com>	<44281555.9080808@copester.com>
	<20060328211029.GB30393@furrr.two14.net>
Message-ID: <4429A82F.2060402@copester.com>

Yes this is a bad programming practice, that I avoid, and have avoided 
for a long time. But for this example, where I want a lot of files to 
all increment the same counters, it seemed like a good idea at the time. ;)

Whatever works, right?
Chris

Martin Maney wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 27, 2006 at 10:39:49AM -0600, Chris Cope wrote:
> 
>>better approach anyway. In 4 years of programming with python, I've 
>>never used globals before, and had no idea seamlessly sharing them 
>>between files, like with an external in C, wasn't feasible. :)
> 
> 
> While Python isn't a bondage & discipline kind of langauge, it doesn't
> waste much effort making bad ideas easy, either.  <wink>
> 
> This may be one of the real exceptions, but my experience has been that
> sharing state though globals is well up on the list of things that will
> eventually circle around and bite you in the ass.  Just sayin'.
> 

From mtobis at gmail.com  Tue Mar 28 23:26:40 2006
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:26:40 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Using globals across files
In-Reply-To: <4429A82F.2060402@copester.com>
References: <4422F613.1060300@colorstudy.com>
	<20060323192955.GA12014@furrr.two14.net>
	<3096c19d0603231250j79c11ed0uf89b803aeaef22bd@mail.gmail.com>
	<4426F81A.3030409@copester.com>
	<694c06d60603262150lf8c1360n3acb8969ae610624@mail.gmail.com>
	<44281555.9080808@copester.com>
	<20060328211029.GB30393@furrr.two14.net>
	<4429A82F.2060402@copester.com>
Message-ID: <c3aa55550603281326p7739dc6dk4ca24ac9e46d2bce@mail.gmail.com>

If you aren't creating new references on the fly, and you don't mind
being suspected
of being unpythonic:

> cat myglob.py

# myglob.py

a = 42

> python

>>> from myglob import *

>>> a

42

>>> # mt

From ianb at colorstudy.com  Tue Mar 28 23:31:11 2006
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:31:11 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Using globals across files
In-Reply-To: <c3aa55550603281326p7739dc6dk4ca24ac9e46d2bce@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4422F613.1060300@colorstudy.com>	<20060323192955.GA12014@furrr.two14.net>	<3096c19d0603231250j79c11ed0uf89b803aeaef22bd@mail.gmail.com>	<4426F81A.3030409@copester.com>	<694c06d60603262150lf8c1360n3acb8969ae610624@mail.gmail.com>	<44281555.9080808@copester.com>	<20060328211029.GB30393@furrr.two14.net>	<4429A82F.2060402@copester.com>
	<c3aa55550603281326p7739dc6dk4ca24ac9e46d2bce@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4429AB1F.1000904@colorstudy.com>

Michael Tobis wrote:
> If you aren't creating new references on the fly, and you don't mind
> being suspected
> of being unpythonic:
> 
> 
>>cat myglob.py
> 
> 
> # myglob.py
> 
> a = 42
> 
> 
>>python
> 
> 
>>>>from myglob import *

That's probably exactly what you *don't* want to do, because you are 
actually copying "a" into your module, i.e., it is equivalent to:

import myglob
a = myglob.a

So changes to myglob.a will not be reflected in the local a variable. 
It works for constants, but not for counters or anything like that.



-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org

From jason at hostedlabs.com  Wed Mar 29 00:00:40 2006
From: jason at hostedlabs.com (Jason Rexilius)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 16:00:40 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Using globals across files
In-Reply-To: 4429A82F.2060402@copester.com
Message-ID: <6d2add6dfe33fe0a44735902be31adbc@localhost>


globals are not across-the-board bad.. abusing them is bad (which happens often enough for people to get the idea that they are bad) but there are times when a truly global variable (like a counter) is usefull.

I am surprised that this type of construct doesn't exist in Python.. 

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:18:39 -0600, Chris Cope <chris at copester.com> wrote:
> Yes this is a bad programming practice, that I avoid, and have avoided
> for a long time. But for this example, where I want a lot of files to
> all increment the same counters, it seemed like a good idea at the time.
> ;)
> 
> Whatever works, right?
> Chris
> 
> Martin Maney wrote:
>> On Mon, Mar 27, 2006 at 10:39:49AM -0600, Chris Cope wrote:
>>
>>>better approach anyway. In 4 years of programming with python, I've
>>>never used globals before, and had no idea seamlessly sharing them
>>>between files, like with an external in C, wasn't feasible. :)
>>
>>
>> While Python isn't a bondage & discipline kind of langauge, it doesn't
>> waste much effort making bad ideas easy, either.  <wink>
>>
>> This may be one of the real exceptions, but my experience has been that
>> sharing state though globals is well up on the list of things that will
>> eventually circle around and bite you in the ass.  Just sayin'.
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Mar 29 00:06:09 2006
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 16:06:09 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Using globals across files
In-Reply-To: <6d2add6dfe33fe0a44735902be31adbc@localhost>
References: <6d2add6dfe33fe0a44735902be31adbc@localhost>
Message-ID: <4429B351.3060904@colorstudy.com>

Jason Rexilius wrote:
> globals are not across-the-board bad.. abusing them is bad (which
> happens often enough for people to get the idea that they are bad)
> but there are times when a truly global variable (like a counter) is
> usefull.
> 
> I am surprised that this type of construct doesn't exist in Python..

Here's how I'd do a counter:

# in some_module.py
import itertools
my_counter = itertools.count()


# in another_module.py
from some_module import my_counter

def foo():
     next_value = my_counter.next()



This solves several threading and binding problems that might bite you 
later.  In Python there's no real global-everywhere variables, for 
several reasons besides "globals are bad"; the badness of globals is 
actually low on the scale of reasons IMHO.


-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org

From tundra at tundraware.com  Wed Mar 29 00:18:47 2006
From: tundra at tundraware.com (Tim Daneliuk)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 16:18:47 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] {Slightly OT}: From Markup To Powerpoint?
Message-ID: <4429B647.30500@tundraware.com>

I am a huge fan of Restructured Text.  However, I often find myself
in the situation where I need to distill my notes into a Powerpoint deck.
Is there a tool that can can produce Powerpoint from RST markup?
Failing that, is there another markup tool that could do this?
I hate having to fiddle with interactive slide tuning.  I'd much prefer
a kind of canned way to do this, perhaps under makefile control.


TIA,
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk     tundra at tundraware.com
PGP Key:         http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/


From PRobare at chx.com  Wed Mar 29 00:38:45 2006
From: PRobare at chx.com (Robare, Phil)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 16:38:45 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Using globals across files
Message-ID: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB6CA@MX3.chx.com>

Jason Rexilius on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 4:01 PM wrote
> globals are not across-the-board bad.. abusing them is 
> bad (which happens often enough for people to get the 
> idea that they are bad) but there are times when a truly 
> global variable (like a counter) is usefull.

This gets back to the old saw that every program has two types of
readers: The compiler and the maintainer.  The compiler does not care
about whether your code is thread safe, whether it is efficient, or
whether it computes what you thought you were computing - as long as it
is syntactically correct it will pass it on to the interpreter.

The things we label as "bad" are the things that start to bite us when
the program gets large, or makes the program hard to change, or makes it
hard to understand.  It was all the way back in February of 1973 the
SIGPLAN Notices published a short article "Global Variables Considered
Harmful" (by W. Wulf & Mary Shaw of Carnegie Mellon) that first publicly
laid out the case against using global variables. (This was a follow up
to Edsger Dikstra's famous '68 letter "Go To Considered Harmful" that
made the case for using the control structures of Algol (do, while, for,
if-block-else-block) in place of Fortran's computed go-to's).  Both of
these papers made their argument based upon the difficulty of
understanding what was happening at some point in the program if you had
to understand what was going on elsewhere.  It is interesting to look
back at that paper (it is available at
http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=953355 as a pdf) and realize that
what they are proposing became functional programming and object
oriented programming.

So back to the point, a global counter would be considered harmful if
you used it's value to control the flow of the program.  You may not do
it, but it is such a seductive lure to the inexperienced that modern
language design has eschewed such structures.  And modern programmers
(at least in other languages) have discovered the singleton pattern to
evade such strictures.

From fawad at fawad.net  Wed Mar 29 00:40:32 2006
From: fawad at fawad.net (Fawad Halim)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 16:40:32 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Chicago] {Slightly OT}: From Markup To Powerpoint?
In-Reply-To: <4429B647.30500@tundraware.com>
References: <4429B647.30500@tundraware.com>
Message-ID: <44273.24.15.18.66.1143585632.squirrel@home.fawad.net>

It doesn't do Powerpoint per se (which is probably a good thing), but
rst2s5 will generate HTML based slideshows out of RST.

-fawad

On Tue, March 28, 2006 16:18, Tim Daneliuk wrote:
> I am a huge fan of Restructured Text.  However, I often find myself
> in the situation where I need to distill my notes into a Powerpoint deck.
> Is there a tool that can can produce Powerpoint from RST markup?
> Failing that, is there another markup tool that could do this?
> I hate having to fiddle with interactive slide tuning.  I'd much prefer
> a kind of canned way to do this, perhaps under makefile control.
>
>
> TIA,
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> Tim Daneliuk     tundra at tundraware.com
> PGP Key:         http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/


From ehs at pobox.com  Wed Mar 29 00:41:23 2006
From: ehs at pobox.com (Edward Summers)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 16:41:23 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] {Slightly OT}: From Markup To Powerpoint?
In-Reply-To: <4429B647.30500@tundraware.com>
References: <4429B647.30500@tundraware.com>
Message-ID: <174BC7C7-125A-44E0-BC71-2163776BC330@pobox.com>


On Mar 28, 2006, at 4:18 PM, Tim Daneliuk wrote:
> I am a huge fan of Restructured Text.  However, I often find myself
> in the situation where I need to distill my notes into a Powerpoint  
> deck.
> Is there a tool that can can produce Powerpoint from RST markup?
> Failing that, is there another markup tool that could do this?
> I hate having to fiddle with interactive slide tuning.  I'd much  
> prefer
> a kind of canned way to do this, perhaps under makefile control.

Even better, imho -- rst2s5 :-)

http://homepage.hispeed.ch/py430/python/

//Ed

From mtobis at gmail.com  Wed Mar 29 00:44:14 2006
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 16:44:14 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Using globals across files
In-Reply-To: <4429AB1F.1000904@colorstudy.com>
References: <4422F613.1060300@colorstudy.com>
	<20060323192955.GA12014@furrr.two14.net>
	<3096c19d0603231250j79c11ed0uf89b803aeaef22bd@mail.gmail.com>
	<4426F81A.3030409@copester.com>
	<694c06d60603262150lf8c1360n3acb8969ae610624@mail.gmail.com>
	<44281555.9080808@copester.com>
	<20060328211029.GB30393@furrr.two14.net>
	<4429A82F.2060402@copester.com>
	<c3aa55550603281326p7739dc6dk4ca24ac9e46d2bce@mail.gmail.com>
	<4429AB1F.1000904@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <c3aa55550603281444g5432639aw83a1d67a753f5991@mail.gmail.com>

Yeah, oops, thanks.

I guess this has its drawbacks, though a litgtle less severe than Ian says.

If you take care to mutate a mutable rather than reassigning its name,
you get what you want, sort of.

tobis$ cat myglob.py
a = [42]

def chga():
   global a
   a.append(1)

tobis$ python
... Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> from myglob import *
>>> a
[42]
>>> chga()
>>> a
[42, 1]
>>>

But just one a = a + [1,2,3] and your a is out of scope forever in a
hard-to-spot way...

This is a (yet another!) case where it seems like a non-rebindable
name wants to happen!

mt

From dbt at meat.net  Wed Mar 29 00:25:43 2006
From: dbt at meat.net (David Terrell)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 16:25:43 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] {Slightly OT}: From Markup To Powerpoint?
In-Reply-To: <4429B647.30500@tundraware.com>
References: <4429B647.30500@tundraware.com>
Message-ID: <20060328222543.GC22031@sphinx.chicagopeoplez.org>

On Tue, Mar 28, 2006 at 04:18:47PM -0600, Tim Daneliuk wrote:
> I am a huge fan of Restructured Text.  However, I often find myself
> in the situation where I need to distill my notes into a Powerpoint deck.
> Is there a tool that can can produce Powerpoint from RST markup?
> Failing that, is there another markup tool that could do this?
> I hate having to fiddle with interactive slide tuning.  I'd much prefer
> a kind of canned way to do this, perhaps under makefile control.

If you're not wedded to powerpoint to do presentations, try S5
[http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/tools/s5/] and this:

http://docutils.sourceforge.net/docs/user/slide-shows.html

From PRobare at chx.com  Wed Mar 29 00:52:11 2006
From: PRobare at chx.com (Robare, Phil)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 16:52:11 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] {Slightly OT}: From Markup To Powerpoint?
Message-ID: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB6CB@MX3.chx.com>

Tim Daneliuk on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 4:19 PM wrote
> I am a huge fan of Restructured Text.  However, I often find
> myself in the situation where I need to distill my notes into 
> a Powerpoint deck. Is there a tool that can can produce 
> Powerpoint from RST markup? Failing that, is there another 
> markup tool that could do this? I hate having to fiddle with
> interactive slide tuning.  I'd much prefer a kind of canned 
> way to do this, perhaps under makefile control.

I'm not sure how it would fit with RST, but S5 is a toolkit (javascript
+ stylesheets) from http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/tools/s5/ that lets you
create slideshows that are XHTML.

Phil

From mtobis at gmail.com  Wed Mar 29 01:02:29 2006
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 17:02:29 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] {Slightly OT}: From Markup To Powerpoint?
In-Reply-To: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB6CB@MX3.chx.com>
References: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB6CB@MX3.chx.com>
Message-ID: <c3aa55550603281502n6ff544cfp4f53b905552fa80d@mail.gmail.com>

> I'm not sure how it would fit with RST, but S5 is ...

Like Ed said, rst2s5

I'll never do another talk another way if I can help it.

mt

From mtobis at gmail.com  Wed Mar 29 03:17:42 2006
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 19:17:42 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] newbie meeting
Message-ID: <c3aa55550603281717u671f35d0x741ac0c3ed085646@mail.gmail.com>

Almost everybody who signed up showed up. At the last minute, a
schoolteacher said he was showing up with about seven inner city
teenagers, but I headed him off.

A wide variety of skills among the attendees, which made matters
challenginf. Two kids, quite young, under 12 I think, and about a
dozen adults. Not much teen participation, which was interesting and a
bit surprising.

It went well enough that I think there will be more. Loyola almost
freaked out at the last minute, but now seems favorably disposed
toward continuing on hosting this, though this remains unofficial at
present.

Robert Ramsdell showed up, and was quite helpful. I'll greatly
appreciate other ChiPmunks showing up in the future!

So far, we know how to write python code to draw an ASCII diamond
shape like this:

     *
    ***
   *****
  *******
   *****
    ***
     *

That's not as far as I had hoped to go, but everyone genuinely got the concept.

Thanks Robert! Thanks to any ChiPy subscribers who showed up to learn, as well.

mt

From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Mar 29 09:29:31 2006
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 01:29:31 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] April meeting
Message-ID: <442A375B.4010509@colorstudy.com>

I got an offer from Chad Whitacre to do a presentation 
(http://www.zetadev.com/software/), as he'll be in town for our April 
meeting.  And Chris better bring that Rhumba; when the robot army 
defeats humanity, I know I want to be aligned with the winning side, and 
that takes practice.  And maybe we need a short newbie presentation?

Any offers for a venue?

-- 
Ian Bicking  |  ianb at colorstudy.com  |  http://blog.ianbicking.org

From varmaa at gmail.com  Wed Mar 29 14:21:36 2006
From: varmaa at gmail.com (Atul Varma)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 06:21:36 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] April meeting
In-Reply-To: <442A375B.4010509@colorstudy.com>
References: <442A375B.4010509@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <361b27370603290421s31443dc1lb9ff50aa6b27caf@mail.gmail.com>

I'm still up for giving a presentation on SCons, too, if there's room for
it.

- Atul

On 3/29/06, Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
>
> I got an offer from Chad Whitacre to do a presentation
> (http://www.zetadev.com/software/), as he'll be in town for our April
> meeting.  And Chris better bring that Rhumba; when the robot army
> defeats humanity, I know I want to be aligned with the winning side, and
> that takes practice.  And maybe we need a short newbie presentation?
>
> Any offers for a venue?
>
> --
> Ian Bicking  |  ianb at colorstudy.com  |  http://blog.ianbicking.org
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20060329/e457b8be/attachment.htm 

From racter at gmail.com  Wed Mar 29 16:15:54 2006
From: racter at gmail.com (jake elliott)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 08:15:54 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] April meeting
In-Reply-To: <361b27370603290421s31443dc1lb9ff50aa6b27caf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <442A375B.4010509@colorstudy.com>
	<361b27370603290421s31443dc1lb9ff50aa6b27caf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fb60813e0603290615p5b48ec50y48a4d65401578d9a@mail.gmail.com>

On 3/29/06, Atul Varma <varmaa at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm still up for giving a presentation on SCons, too, if there's room for
> it.

i for one would love to see such a presentation.

On 3/29/06, Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
> And Chris better bring that Rhumba; when the robot army
> defeats humanity, I know I want to be aligned with the winning side, and
> that takes practice.

don't be so quick to sell us out; the roomba cannot go up stairs.

exterminate,
jake

From fawad at fawad.net  Wed Mar 29 18:42:24 2006
From: fawad at fawad.net (Fawad Halim)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:42:24 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Chicago] Meetup sprint regroup?
Message-ID: <52362.24.15.18.66.1143650544.squirrel@home.fawad.net>

Hi guys,
  It's been a while since we talked about the sprint. Should we discuss
the progress of the project on IRC sometime? How about 9:00 tonight?

Regards
-fawad


From bray at sent.com  Wed Mar 29 18:52:18 2006
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:52:18 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Meetup sprint regroup?
In-Reply-To: <52362.24.15.18.66.1143650544.squirrel@home.fawad.net>
References: <52362.24.15.18.66.1143650544.squirrel@home.fawad.net>
Message-ID: <821C580C-20CC-46BB-8580-74C6EA9870E5@sent.com>


On Mar 29, 2006, at 10:42 AM, Fawad Halim wrote:

>   It's been a while since we talked about the sprint. Should we  
> discuss
> the progress of the project on IRC sometime? How about 9:00 tonight?


Sounds good to me.

From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Mar 29 19:16:01 2006
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 11:16:01 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] next chipy meeting?
In-Reply-To: <442A7461.4040005@zetaweb.com>
References: <4429F0A1.4060601@zetaweb.com> <442A35D0.2000309@colorstudy.com>
	<442A7461.4040005@zetaweb.com>
Message-ID: <442AC0D1.8050601@colorstudy.com>

Chad Whitacre wrote:
>> Definitely, a presentation would be great.
> 
> 
> Cool! Thank you. A few questions then:
> 
> - What's the usual format?
> - How long of a talk should I plan?
> - What level of expertise should I target?
> - Would ChiPy be more interested in testing, web programming, or both?

Let's bring these questions to the people.  People: respond!

Or, uh... usually it's slides, but doing a demo is also good.  There's 
maybe 15 people at an average meeting (maybe 20ish lately?), and 
generally everyone has a programming background, but always a handful of 
people who are new to Python.  We've been starting with a simple 
presentation (on a stdlib module or something) and then a more advanced 
presentation.

For length, I guess it depends on whether we also have a SCons 
presentation...?  SCons seems fairly involved, but it depends on what 
Atul had in mind.

As for interest, *then* I will leave it up to people to respond.

-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org

From PRobare at chx.com  Wed Mar 29 21:47:49 2006
From: PRobare at chx.com (Robare, Phil)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 13:47:49 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] next chipy meeting?
Message-ID: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB6CD@MX3.chx.com>

Ian Bicking wrote
> Chad Whitacre wrote:
> >> Definitely, a presentation would be great.
> > 
> > 
> > Cool! Thank you. A few questions then:
> > 
> > - What's the usual format?
> > - How long of a talk should I plan?
> > - What level of expertise should I target?
> > - Would ChiPy be more interested in testing, web programming, or
both?

> Let's bring these questions to the people.  People: respond!

Forget that stuff Ian wrote.  He's only been an incredibly active
proponent and guiding light for ChiPy.  I on the other hand have shown
up for three meeting in the last six months and feel like giving you the
"real" stuff.  

Ian's just talking minimal level.  To be sure you don't embarrass
yourself here's what you need to know:

- What's the usual format?

Depending upon the venue you will have up to two hours for your roadies
to load-in and setup your stage, lights and sound system.  Electricity
(up to 15 Amps at 110 volts) can be supplied.  If you have any higher
requirements you will have to provide with your own generators or make
special arrangements with the venue and Commonwealth Edison.

One dressing room for the presenter can usually be arranged, along with
a group dressing room for up to twenty background vocalists and dancers.
Make-up, costumes, etc. are part of your responsibility.

You will be responsible for paying the union stagehands out of your
portion of the gate receipts.  T-shirts, CDs, programs and commemorative
posters will be handled by the gift shop with a 30% commission.  No
parking lot sales are allowed.

- How long of a talk should I plan?

A headline performer should be able to keep the audience entertained for
an hour for the main act.  If you are on a shared bill twenty minutes
for each named act may satisfy the crowd.  Remember how much each member
of the audience has paid and try to give back more value than that.

 - What level of expertise should I target?

In Chicago you can expect a generally high level of sophistication.
Lame magic tricks and old jokes do not go over well here, but a
sparkling presentation of erudite brilliance will win a level of
respect.  Throwing of cups, bottles, and rotten fruit by the crowd is
discouraged but cannot be ruled out if the presentation does not meet
their approval.  Heckling and inappropriate or ill-timed questions from
the audience is a common occurrence, but not to such a level that a
professional entertainer would have a problem with handling such
commotion.  The possibility of hotel room keys thrown by audience
members of the opposite sex may encourage a top level presentation.

- Would ChiPy be more interested in testing, web programming, or both?

Actually the use of Python to enhance self-esteem and gather an
attractive and wealthy entourage would probably go down well with our
usual crowd.

From varmaa at gmail.com  Wed Mar 29 22:05:02 2006
From: varmaa at gmail.com (Atul Varma)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 14:05:02 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] next chipy meeting?
In-Reply-To: <442AC0D1.8050601@colorstudy.com>
References: <4429F0A1.4060601@zetaweb.com> <442A35D0.2000309@colorstudy.com>
	<442A7461.4040005@zetaweb.com> <442AC0D1.8050601@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <361b27370603291205t3c9fa55eo50ec6b51fa3e2130@mail.gmail.com>

On 3/29/06, Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
>
> Chad Whitacre wrote:
> >> Definitely, a presentation would be great.
> >
> >
> > Cool! Thank you. A few questions then:
> >
> > - What's the usual format?
> > - How long of a talk should I plan?
> > - What level of expertise should I target?
> > - Would ChiPy be more interested in testing, web programming, or both?
>
> Let's bring these questions to the people.  People: respond!
>
> Or, uh... usually it's slides, but doing a demo is also good.  There's
> maybe 15 people at an average meeting (maybe 20ish lately?), and
> generally everyone has a programming background, but always a handful of
> people who are new to Python.  We've been starting with a simple
> presentation (on a stdlib module or something) and then a more advanced
> presentation.
>
> For length, I guess it depends on whether we also have a SCons
> presentation...?  SCons seems fairly involved, but it depends on what
> Atul had in mind.


Here's my thoughts on the SCons presentation: it seems like a big key to any
ChiPy presentation is making it interesting for a wide range of interests
and skill sets.  For SCons, I was thinking of explaining the general
architecture/philosophy/workflow of the package, with a few concrete
examples: a simple "Hello World"-style C program and a SWIG-ified Python C
extension module.  I'd also give a very brief comparison of one or two of
these SCons examples to their GNU Make equivalents.  No experience with C,
SWIG, or GNU Make would be assumed, so I'd be explaining some things briefly
along the way--but I'd mostly be focusing on the general concepts behind
SCons rather than the nitty-gritty details of exactly how to use it (for
instance, no coding will be done during the presentation, only brief
snippets will be shown).

So, that's basically what I was thinking.  I should be able to manage a
30-minute presentation...  How's that sound?

- Atul
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20060329/78b813c5/attachment.html 

From mtobis at gmail.com  Wed Mar 29 22:08:19 2006
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 14:08:19 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] next chipy meeting?
In-Reply-To: <361b27370603291205t3c9fa55eo50ec6b51fa3e2130@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4429F0A1.4060601@zetaweb.com> <442A35D0.2000309@colorstudy.com>
	<442A7461.4040005@zetaweb.com> <442AC0D1.8050601@colorstudy.com>
	<361b27370603291205t3c9fa55eo50ec6b51fa3e2130@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c3aa55550603291208k2f72a23x706b8d612e95d552@mail.gmail.com>

On 3/29/06, Atul Varma <varmaa at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 3/29/06, Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
>
> > Chad Whitacre wrote:
> > >> Definitely, a presentation would be great.
> > >
> > >
> > > Cool! Thank you. A few questions then:
> > >
> > > - What's the usual format?
> > > - How long of a talk should I plan?
> > > - What level of expertise should I target?
> > > - Would ChiPy be more interested in testing, web programming, or both?
> >
> > Let's bring these questions to the people.  People: respond!
> >
> > Or, uh... usually it's slides, but doing a demo is also good.  There's
> > maybe 15 people at an average meeting (maybe 20ish lately?), and
> > generally everyone has a programming background, but always a handful of
> > people who are new to Python.  We've been starting with a simple
> > presentation (on a stdlib module or something) and then a more advanced
> > presentation.
> >
> > For length, I guess it depends on whether we also have a SCons
> > presentation...?  SCons seems fairly involved, but it depends on what
> > Atul had in mind.
>
>
>  Here's my thoughts on the SCons presentation: it seems like a big key to
> any ChiPy presentation is making it interesting for a wide range of
> interests and skill sets.  For SCons, I was thinking of explaining the
> general architecture/philosophy/workflow of the package,
> with a few concrete examples: a simple "Hello World"-style C program and a
> SWIG-ified Python C extension module.  I'd also give a very brief comparison
> of one or two of these SCons examples to their GNU Make equivalents.  No
> experience with C, SWIG, or GNU Make would be assumed, so I'd be explaining
> some things briefly along the way--but I'd mostly be focusing on the general
> concepts behind SCons rather than the nitty-gritty details of exactly how to
> use it (for instance, no coding will be done during the presentation, only
> brief snippets will be shown).
>
>  So, that's basically what I was thinking.  I should be able to manage a
> 30-minute presentation...  How's that sound?
>
>  - Atul
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
>

From mtobis at gmail.com  Wed Mar 29 22:11:48 2006
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 14:11:48 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] next chipy meeting?
In-Reply-To: <361b27370603291205t3c9fa55eo50ec6b51fa3e2130@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4429F0A1.4060601@zetaweb.com> <442A35D0.2000309@colorstudy.com>
	<442A7461.4040005@zetaweb.com> <442AC0D1.8050601@colorstudy.com>
	<361b27370603291205t3c9fa55eo50ec6b51fa3e2130@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c3aa55550603291211r13e22e9fn281c2c1370831bdc@mail.gmail.com>

(Aargh. Why did I like this gmail thing, again?)

I suspect a half hour is too short. I'd love to see a presentation
like this, especially if it covers multi-language distributions, and
think it should be the main attraction. So I suggest you cover it in
as much detail as you think is appropriate.

Except for the one time we did lightning talks, we don't seem to hold
people to a time.

mt

From varmaa at gmail.com  Wed Mar 29 22:19:06 2006
From: varmaa at gmail.com (Atul Varma)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 14:19:06 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] next chipy meeting?
In-Reply-To: <c3aa55550603291211r13e22e9fn281c2c1370831bdc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4429F0A1.4060601@zetaweb.com> <442A35D0.2000309@colorstudy.com>
	<442A7461.4040005@zetaweb.com> <442AC0D1.8050601@colorstudy.com>
	<361b27370603291205t3c9fa55eo50ec6b51fa3e2130@mail.gmail.com>
	<c3aa55550603291211r13e22e9fn281c2c1370831bdc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <361b27370603291219u679cbb35k1806f4c99bfcfc1d@mail.gmail.com>

Okay, that's cool.  I'm going to try to actually split my presentation up
into two "chapters", then: the first will be conceptual and rather broad
with a few simple examples, and the second will be a more in-depth case
study.  How's that sound?

- Atul

On 3/29/06, Michael Tobis <mtobis at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> (Aargh. Why did I like this gmail thing, again?)
>
> I suspect a half hour is too short. I'd love to see a presentation
> like this, especially if it covers multi-language distributions, and
> think it should be the main attraction. So I suggest you cover it in
> as much detail as you think is appropriate.
>
> Except for the one time we did lightning talks, we don't seem to hold
> people to a time.
>
> mt
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20060329/896cd881/attachment.htm 

From pfein at pobox.com  Wed Mar 29 23:02:53 2006
From: pfein at pobox.com (Peter Fein)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 15:02:53 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] next chipy meeting?
In-Reply-To: <442AC0D1.8050601@colorstudy.com>
References: <4429F0A1.4060601@zetaweb.com> <442A7461.4040005@zetaweb.com>
	<442AC0D1.8050601@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <200603291502.53127.pfein@pobox.com>

Just to be clear, the next meeting is on April 13?

On Wednesday 29 March 2006 11:16 am, Ian Bicking wrote:
> Chad Whitacre wrote:
> >> Definitely, a presentation would be great.
> >
> > Cool! Thank you. A few questions then:
> >
> > - What's the usual format?
> > - How long of a talk should I plan?
> > - What level of expertise should I target?
> > - Would ChiPy be more interested in testing, web programming, or both?
>
> Let's bring these questions to the people.  People: respond!
>
> Or, uh... usually it's slides, but doing a demo is also good.  There's
> maybe 15 people at an average meeting (maybe 20ish lately?), and
> generally everyone has a programming background, but always a handful of
> people who are new to Python.  We've been starting with a simple
> presentation (on a stdlib module or something) and then a more advanced
> presentation.
>
> For length, I guess it depends on whether we also have a SCons
> presentation...?  SCons seems fairly involved, but it depends on what
> Atul had in mind.
>
> As for interest, *then* I will leave it up to people to respond.

-- 
Peter Fein                                                     pfein at pobox.com
773-575-0694                                      Jabber: peter.fein at gmail.com

From chad at zetaweb.com  Wed Mar 29 20:42:55 2006
From: chad at zetaweb.com (Chad Whitacre)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 13:42:55 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] next chipy meeting?
In-Reply-To: <442AC0D1.8050601@colorstudy.com>
References: <4429F0A1.4060601@zetaweb.com> <442A35D0.2000309@colorstudy.com>
	<442A7461.4040005@zetaweb.com> <442AC0D1.8050601@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <442AD52F.5080302@zetaweb.com>

Hey all,

 > Let's bring these questions to the people.  People: respond!

Thanks for the post Ian! By way of background, my name is Chad Whitacre, 
I'm from Pittsburgh, and I'll be in Chicago during the next ChiPy 
meeting (April 13). I plan on attending one way or another, but I 
offered to Ian to give a presentation on either or both of a couple 
projects I've got going (I brought these to PyCon too):

   httpy -- a sane and robust HTTP library
     http://www.zetadev.com/software/httpy/

   testosterone -- a curses-based testing interface
     http://www.zetadev.com/software/tesosterone/


So if you guys are up for it, then let me know how long I should plan 
for, and whether you have any preference between testing and web 
programming.

Thanks! Looking forward to it!



chad



Ian Bicking wrote:
> Chad Whitacre wrote:
> 
>>> Definitely, a presentation would be great.
>>
>>
>>
>> Cool! Thank you. A few questions then:
>>
>> - What's the usual format?
>> - How long of a talk should I plan?
>> - What level of expertise should I target?
>> - Would ChiPy be more interested in testing, web programming, or both?
> 
> 
> Let's bring these questions to the people.  People: respond!
> 
> Or, uh... usually it's slides, but doing a demo is also good.  There's 
> maybe 15 people at an average meeting (maybe 20ish lately?), and 
> generally everyone has a programming background, but always a handful of 
> people who are new to Python.  We've been starting with a simple 
> presentation (on a stdlib module or something) and then a more advanced 
> presentation.
> 
> For length, I guess it depends on whether we also have a SCons 
> presentation...?  SCons seems fairly involved, but it depends on what 
> Atul had in mind.
> 
> As for interest, *then* I will leave it up to people to respond.
> 

From racter at gmail.com  Thu Mar 30 05:53:42 2006
From: racter at gmail.com (jake elliott)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 21:53:42 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] next chipy meeting?
In-Reply-To: <442AD52F.5080302@zetaweb.com>
References: <4429F0A1.4060601@zetaweb.com> <442A35D0.2000309@colorstudy.com>
	<442A7461.4040005@zetaweb.com> <442AC0D1.8050601@colorstudy.com>
	<442AD52F.5080302@zetaweb.com>
Message-ID: <fb60813e0603291953h71fc540dq8e4b4b54c15006d4@mail.gmail.com>

On 3/29/06, Chad Whitacre <chad at zetaweb.com> wrote:
>    httpy -- a sane and robust HTTP library
>      http://www.zetadev.com/software/httpy/
>
>    testosterone -- a curses-based testing interface
>      http://www.zetadev.com/software/tesosterone/

hi chad --

<3 those screencasts -- very funny.  also yr description of httpy in
the manual is really exciting + i am looking forward to playing with
it.

-jake

From racter at gmail.com  Thu Mar 30 06:04:07 2006
From: racter at gmail.com (jake elliott)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 22:04:07 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] intro[duct]
Message-ID: <fb60813e0603292004m5228644bubbf8728b62528d29@mail.gmail.com>

hello snakes,

very cool to find a chicago-area python group!

i have just joined this listserv && i thought i would take a moment to
introduce myself.  i am an [artist/programmer] and have been using
python in my work for just a few years now in a very naive capacity. 
however it is now coming up for me as a really fun+quick+elegant
solution to dynamic website development, which is how i make my
rupies, so i am trying to dive in deeper.  at the same time, i am
discovering that i can replace the programming
[languages/systems/environments] that i use in my art very naturally
with python - and it's really opening up new directions.

looking ffwd>> to meeting up with yall.

nybble,
jake

ps = where do you usually hold meetings?  out in the sub burbs{} or in the city?

From mtobis at gmail.com  Thu Mar 30 06:04:51 2006
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 22:04:51 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] next chipy meeting?
In-Reply-To: <442AD52F.5080302@zetaweb.com>
References: <4429F0A1.4060601@zetaweb.com> <442A35D0.2000309@colorstudy.com>
	<442A7461.4040005@zetaweb.com> <442AC0D1.8050601@colorstudy.com>
	<442AD52F.5080302@zetaweb.com>
Message-ID: <c3aa55550603292004k797974e7m18ec9a8eebc3db6c@mail.gmail.com>

Wow, excellent flash presentations and docs! And it all looks
well-thought out and to the point!

Since we had a test module last month, I would guess httpy would be a
better choice if we get only one of these. How about you go first,
present one, and then if time allows at the end present the other.

Anyone else have an opinion?

mt

From varmaa at gmail.com  Thu Mar 30 06:11:52 2006
From: varmaa at gmail.com (Atul Varma)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 22:11:52 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] next chipy meeting?
In-Reply-To: <c3aa55550603292004k797974e7m18ec9a8eebc3db6c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4429F0A1.4060601@zetaweb.com> <442A35D0.2000309@colorstudy.com>
	<442A7461.4040005@zetaweb.com> <442AC0D1.8050601@colorstudy.com>
	<442AD52F.5080302@zetaweb.com>
	<c3aa55550603292004k797974e7m18ec9a8eebc3db6c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <361b27370603292011o3882b39fp5f983348483cbc88@mail.gmail.com>

That sounds great to me.

BTW, Chad, I loved the video for Testosterone... Reminds me of the DJ's from
those EA Big games like SSX and Burnout 3. :)  Very cool-looking module!

- Atul

On 3/29/06, Michael Tobis <mtobis at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Wow, excellent flash presentations and docs! And it all looks
> well-thought out and to the point!
>
> Since we had a test module last month, I would guess httpy would be a
> better choice if we get only one of these. How about you go first,
> present one, and then if time allows at the end present the other.
>
> Anyone else have an opinion?
>
> mt
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20060329/9202d740/attachment.htm 

From fawad at fawad.net  Thu Mar 30 18:52:20 2006
From: fawad at fawad.net (Fawad Halim)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 10:52:20 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Chicago] meeting app list
Message-ID: <33900.24.15.18.66.1143737540.squirrel@home.fawad.net>

Hi all,
  For those involved/interested in the Django based meeting application
project, we've created a mailing list for discussing the project at
http://groups.google.com/group/chipymeetup

Regards
-fawad


From pfein at pobox.com  Thu Mar 30 19:00:39 2006
From: pfein at pobox.com (Peter Fein)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 11:00:39 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] meeting app list
In-Reply-To: <33900.24.15.18.66.1143737540.squirrel@home.fawad.net>
References: <33900.24.15.18.66.1143737540.squirrel@home.fawad.net>
Message-ID: <200603301100.40355.pfein@pobox.com>

On Thursday 30 March 2006 10:52 am, Fawad Halim wrote:
> Hi all,
>   For those involved/interested in the Django based meeting application
> project, we've created a mailing list for discussing the project at
> http://groups.google.com/group/chipymeetup

Would (heavens forbid) a full Trac install be feasible?  I'm interested in 
learning about Django, but don't have time to contribute.

Trac is a nicer public interface than mailing lists.

Just my .02 - as I'm not willing to actually do anything myself to make this 
happen, I won't complain if it doesn't. ;P

-- 
Peter Fein                                                     pfein at pobox.com
773-575-0694                                      Jabber: peter.fein at gmail.com

From bray at sent.com  Thu Mar 30 16:57:18 2006
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 08:57:18 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Meetshop from ChipyChipySprint
Message-ID: <EFC828F5-689A-475E-9897-4043A028A186@sent.com>

We are moving the conversations on the ChipyChipySprint application  
to a separate list:

<http://groups.google.com/group/chipymeetup>

This is for the project we started at the ChipyChipySprint <http:// 
chipy.org/ChipyChipySprint>.

-- bhr



From john at phaedrusdeinus.org  Thu Mar 30 19:37:58 2006
From: john at phaedrusdeinus.org (johnnnnnn)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 11:37:58 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] meeting app list
In-Reply-To: <33900.24.15.18.66.1143737540.squirrel@home.fawad.net>
References: <33900.24.15.18.66.1143737540.squirrel@home.fawad.net>
Message-ID: <442C1776.7020409@phaedrusdeinus.org>

This might be an odd question, but is it possible to join this group 
without signing up for the Google Universal Identification Barcode?

-johnnnnnnnnn


Fawad Halim wrote:
> Hi all,
>   For those involved/interested in the Django based meeting application
> project, we've created a mailing list for discussing the project at
> http://groups.google.com/group/chipymeetup
>
> Regards
> -fawad
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>   

From fawad at fawad.net  Thu Mar 30 21:44:42 2006
From: fawad at fawad.net (Fawad Halim)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 13:44:42 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Chicago] meeting app list
Message-ID: <36074.24.15.18.66.1143747882.squirrel@home.fawad.net>

Yep. The trac is at https://opensvn.csie.org/traccgi/chipy/trac.cgi/. I
don't think trac would work too well as a mailing list replacement.
There's a lot of value in pushing out messages to people instead of
posting something on a website and hoping that somebody will come across
it.

Regards
-fawad

On Thu, March 30, 2006 11:00, Peter Fein wrote:
> On Thursday 30 March 2006 10:52 am, Fawad Halim wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>> For those involved/interested in the Django based meeting application
>> project, we've created a mailing list for discussing the project at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/chipymeetup
>>
>
> Would (heavens forbid) a full Trac install be feasible?  I'm interested
> in learning about Django, but don't have time to contribute.
>
> Trac is a nicer public interface than mailing lists.
>
>
> Just my .02 - as I'm not willing to actually do anything myself to make
> this happen, I won't complain if it doesn't. ;P
>
> --
> Peter Fein
> pfein at pobox.com 773-575-0694                                      Jabber:
> peter.fein at gmail.com _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
>



From fawad at fawad.net  Thu Mar 30 21:54:07 2006
From: fawad at fawad.net (Fawad Halim)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 13:54:07 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Chicago] meeting app list
In-Reply-To: <442C1776.7020409@phaedrusdeinus.org>
References: <33900.24.15.18.66.1143737540.squirrel@home.fawad.net>
	<442C1776.7020409@phaedrusdeinus.org>
Message-ID: <36341.24.15.18.66.1143748447.squirrel@home.fawad.net>

Sure is.

http://groups.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=12346&topic=251

P.S. Is the .py in the URL phat or what?

Regards
-fawad

On Thu, March 30, 2006 11:37, johnnnnnn wrote:
> This might be an odd question, but is it possible to join this group
> without signing up for the Google Universal Identification Barcode?
>
> -johnnnnnnnnn
>
>
>
> Fawad Halim wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>> For those involved/interested in the Django based meeting application
>> project, we've created a mailing list for discussing the project at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/chipymeetup
>>
>>
>> Regards
>> -fawad


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Thu Mar 30 23:10:22 2006
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 15:10:22 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] April meeting
In-Reply-To: <fb60813e0603290615p5b48ec50y48a4d65401578d9a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <442A375B.4010509@colorstudy.com>	<361b27370603290421s31443dc1lb9ff50aa6b27caf@mail.gmail.com>
	<fb60813e0603290615p5b48ec50y48a4d65401578d9a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <442C493E.8030001@colorstudy.com>

jake elliott wrote:
>>And Chris better bring that Rhumba; when the robot army
>>defeats humanity, I know I want to be aligned with the winning side, and
>>that takes practice.
> 
> 
> don't be so quick to sell us out; the roomba cannot go up stairs.

This brings to mind a distopian playground future, where we have to find 
a way to live our lives only from the second floor or higher.  Don't 
touch the carpet, or the roombas will eat you.


-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Thu Mar 30 23:14:14 2006
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 15:14:14 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] April meeting
In-Reply-To: <442C493E.8030001@colorstudy.com>
References: <442A375B.4010509@colorstudy.com>
	<361b27370603290421s31443dc1lb9ff50aa6b27caf@mail.gmail.com>
	<fb60813e0603290615p5b48ec50y48a4d65401578d9a@mail.gmail.com>
	<442C493E.8030001@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0603301314r2be77ba5mc86af33670ce17d9@mail.gmail.com>

On 3/30/06, Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
> jake elliott wrote:
> >>And Chris better bring that Rhumba; when the robot army
> >>defeats humanity, I know I want to be aligned with the winning side, and
> >>that takes practice.
> >
> >
> > don't be so quick to sell us out; the roomba cannot go up stairs.
>
> This brings to mind a distopian playground future, where we have to find
> a way to live our lives only from the second floor or higher.  Don't
> touch the carpet, or the roombas will eat you.

That is very funny.

I probably can't bring the roomba (that thing is BUSY!  My cats are
dirt factories).  Also, I haven't ordered the little part that turns
on the Roomba's little program port.  Hopefully I'll do that sooner
than later.  As of late though, when asked if I'd rather work on the
programming the Roomba or laying on the couch watching PBS, I opt for
PBS.  I'm kind of lazy.  This sudden burst of sun and 70+ F weather
might help me get my act together a bit.

Chris

From maney at two14.net  Fri Mar 31 08:48:39 2006
From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 00:48:39 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] meeting app list
In-Reply-To: <36341.24.15.18.66.1143748447.squirrel@home.fawad.net>
References: <33900.24.15.18.66.1143737540.squirrel@home.fawad.net>
	<442C1776.7020409@phaedrusdeinus.org>
	<36341.24.15.18.66.1143748447.squirrel@home.fawad.net>
Message-ID: <20060331064839.GE14161@furrr.two14.net>

On Thu, Mar 30, 2006 at 01:54:07PM -0600, Fawad Halim wrote:
> http://groups.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=12346&topic=251
> 
> P.S. Is the .py in the URL phat or what?

Ugly, actually, as are all unnecessary internals that leak into URLs.

-- 
There is no greater hoax in this story than the rush
to put young children on computers, in the belief that
it will prepare them for tomorrow's jobs.  -- Todd Oppenheimer


From dbt at meat.net  Fri Mar 31 18:06:54 2006
From: dbt at meat.net (David Terrell)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:06:54 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] meeting app list
In-Reply-To: <20060331064839.GE14161@furrr.two14.net>
References: <33900.24.15.18.66.1143737540.squirrel@home.fawad.net>
	<442C1776.7020409@phaedrusdeinus.org>
	<36341.24.15.18.66.1143748447.squirrel@home.fawad.net>
	<20060331064839.GE14161@furrr.two14.net>
Message-ID: <20060331160654.GH22031@sphinx.chicagopeoplez.org>

On Fri, Mar 31, 2006 at 12:48:39AM -0600, Martin Maney wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 30, 2006 at 01:54:07PM -0600, Fawad Halim wrote:
> > http://groups.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=12346&topic=251
> > 
> > P.S. Is the .py in the URL phat or what?
> 
> Ugly, actually, as are all unnecessary internals that leak into URLs.

Especially considering the likelihood that code has been rewritten 
in C by now. :)

From maney at two14.net  Fri Mar 31 23:16:20 2006
From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:16:20 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Okay, Chris, how you gonna wire this?
Message-ID: <20060331211620.GB18854@furrr.two14.net>


Kiddie Roomba (SFW, but be careful if you start browsing)

  http://www.nickscipio.com/funstuff/picture.html

-- 
To read a book, to think it over, and to write out notes
is a useful exercise; a book which will not repay some hard thought 
is not worth publishing.  -- Maria Mitchell


From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Fri Mar 31 23:19:17 2006
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:19:17 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Okay, Chris, how you gonna wire this?
In-Reply-To: <20060331211620.GB18854@furrr.two14.net>
References: <20060331211620.GB18854@furrr.two14.net>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0603311319g4a24b03dyed62ff3f71d1e950@mail.gmail.com>

Through suggestion, and cookies.

On 3/31/06, Martin Maney <maney at two14.net> wrote:
>
> Kiddie Roomba (SFW, but be careful if you start browsing)
>
>   http://www.nickscipio.com/funstuff/picture.html
>
> --
> To read a book, to think it over, and to write out notes
> is a useful exercise; a book which will not repay some hard thought
> is not worth publishing.  -- Maria Mitchell
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>