From brian at planetshwoop.com  Sat Apr  1 02:21:13 2006
From: brian at planetshwoop.com (Brian Sobolak)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 18:21:13 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Chicago] meeting app list
In-Reply-To: <20060331064839.GE14161@furrr.two14.net>
References: <33900.24.15.18.66.1143737540.squirrel@home.fawad.net>
	<442C1776.7020409@phaedrusdeinus.org>
	<36341.24.15.18.66.1143748447.squirrel@home.fawad.net>
	<20060331064839.GE14161@furrr.two14.net>
Message-ID: <61710.69.17.23.241.1143850873.squirrel@webmail.psys.org>


Martin Maney wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 30, 2006 at 01:54:07PM -0600, Fawad Halim wrote:
>> http://groups.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=12346&topic=251
>>
>> P.S. Is the .py in the URL phat or what?
>
> Ugly, actually, as are all unnecessary internals that leak into URLs.
>

you think so?  I think bits like that should be encouraged since it
provides an API into the underlying "database".  More URLs like this would
be better.

brian


--
Brian Sobolak
http://www.planetshwoop.com/


From varmaa at gmail.com  Sat Apr  1 03:51:36 2006
From: varmaa at gmail.com (Atul Varma)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 19:51:36 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] meeting app list
In-Reply-To: <61710.69.17.23.241.1143850873.squirrel@webmail.psys.org>
References: <33900.24.15.18.66.1143737540.squirrel@home.fawad.net>
	<442C1776.7020409@phaedrusdeinus.org>
	<36341.24.15.18.66.1143748447.squirrel@home.fawad.net>
	<20060331064839.GE14161@furrr.two14.net>
	<61710.69.17.23.241.1143850873.squirrel@webmail.psys.org>
Message-ID: <361b27370603311751s49586c6gcaf88a2cd1f7c5cb@mail.gmail.com>

It seems like the kinds of URL's that are encouraged these days are
the ones that make the URL look like an API call of sorts, but in a
way that makes the service completely independent of its underlying
"implementation"--so no ".py" or "cgi-bin" anywhere in the URL. For
instance, something more along the lines of:

  http://groups.google.com/support/251/12346

Of course, that doesn't tell you just from the URL that "251" is the
topic and "12346" is the answer, which is why I like named parameters.
 But symbols like "?" and "&" also look kinda ugly and make the URL
harder to read, so I'm not sure how to get around that.

- Atul

On 3/31/06, Brian Sobolak <brian at planetshwoop.com> wrote:
>
> Martin Maney wrote:
> > On Thu, Mar 30, 2006 at 01:54:07PM -0600, Fawad Halim wrote:
> >> http://groups.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=12346&topic=251
> >>
> >> P.S. Is the .py in the URL phat or what?
> >
> > Ugly, actually, as are all unnecessary internals that leak into URLs.
> >
>
> you think so?  I think bits like that should be encouraged since it
> provides an API into the underlying "database".  More URLs like this would
> be better.
>
> brian
>
>
> --
> Brian Sobolak
> http://www.planetshwoop.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From maney at two14.net  Sat Apr  1 03:53:38 2006
From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 19:53:38 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] meeting app list
In-Reply-To: <61710.69.17.23.241.1143850873.squirrel@webmail.psys.org>
References: <33900.24.15.18.66.1143737540.squirrel@home.fawad.net>
	<442C1776.7020409@phaedrusdeinus.org>
	<36341.24.15.18.66.1143748447.squirrel@home.fawad.net>
	<20060331064839.GE14161@furrr.two14.net>
	<61710.69.17.23.241.1143850873.squirrel@webmail.psys.org>
Message-ID: <20060401015338.GC18854@furrr.two14.net>

On Fri, Mar 31, 2006 at 06:21:13PM -0600, Brian Sobolak wrote:
> Martin Maney wrote:
> > On Thu, Mar 30, 2006 at 01:54:07PM -0600, Fawad Halim wrote:
> >> http://groups.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=12346&topic=251
> >>
> >> P.S. Is the .py in the URL phat or what?
> >
> > Ugly, actually, as are all unnecessary internals that leak into URLs.
> >
> 
> you think so?  I think bits like that should be encouraged since it
> provides an API into the underlying "database".  More URLs like this would
> be better.

Huh?  We were talking about the .py part, which is nothing but an
unnecessary leakage of implementation detail into the external API.  As
much as I, too, enjoy seeing Python spoor, it's not a good design to
expose that.

-- 
The phenomenon of financial excess associated with
promising novel technologies is a recurring feature
of the last two centuries.  -- Andrew Odlyzko


From maney at two14.net  Sat Apr  1 04:05:08 2006
From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 20:05:08 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] meeting app list
In-Reply-To: <361b27370603311751s49586c6gcaf88a2cd1f7c5cb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <33900.24.15.18.66.1143737540.squirrel@home.fawad.net>
	<442C1776.7020409@phaedrusdeinus.org>
	<36341.24.15.18.66.1143748447.squirrel@home.fawad.net>
	<20060331064839.GE14161@furrr.two14.net>
	<61710.69.17.23.241.1143850873.squirrel@webmail.psys.org>
	<361b27370603311751s49586c6gcaf88a2cd1f7c5cb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060401020508.GD18854@furrr.two14.net>

On Fri, Mar 31, 2006 at 07:51:36PM -0600, Atul Varma wrote:
> It seems like the kinds of URL's that are encouraged these days are
> the ones that make the URL look like an API call of sorts, but in a

As opposed to the ones that look like an MS file format, with
unintelligible gobbledegook that goes on for thirty or a hundred
characters, yep.

> way that makes the service completely independent of its underlying
> "implementation"--so no ".py" or "cgi-bin" anywhere in the URL. For
> instance, something more along the lines of:
> 
>   http://groups.google.com/support/251/12346
> 
> Of course, that doesn't tell you just from the URL that "251" is the
> topic and "12346" is the answer, which is why I like named parameters.

When the values are as opaque as in this example, naming them is good. 
When the values are self-explanatory, repeating that in a keyword would
just be a waste.  Like so many things, it depends on context.

>  But symbols like "?" and "&" also look kinda ugly and make the URL
> harder to read, so I'm not sure how to get around that.

Sounds like a case of a foolish consistency.  Use what's best in each
case, so instead of

> > >> http://groups.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=12346&topic=251

maybe you'd have

  http://groups.google.com/support/answer/answer:123456/topic:251

(I used colons just to show that there are choices there, too, but
colons are actually not so good in URLs, are they?  And = is, if
cliched, a cliche for the right reasons.  Anwyay, the "bin" part looked
like another implemenetation detail to me, so I removed that, too.  I
really doubt they have bin[ary] answers and some other sort (ana[log]?)
that need to be distinguished there.)

-- 
The true danger is when liberty is nibbled away,
for expedients, and by parts.  -- Edmund Burke


From mrnicksgirl at gmail.com  Sat Apr  1 19:54:18 2006
From: mrnicksgirl at gmail.com (Nola Stowe)
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 11:54:18 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Okay, Chris, how you gonna wire this?
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0603311319g4a24b03dyed62ff3f71d1e950@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20060331211620.GB18854@furrr.two14.net>
	<3096c19d0603311319g4a24b03dyed62ff3f71d1e950@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43e95380604010954u44649968ie614cf56f63be8cd@mail.gmail.com>

Of all the lists I subscribe too.. chicago pm, chirb, chicago php
group... python is by far the most entertaining.

:)

--
http://PhpGirl.blogger.com
http://CodeSnipers.com


On 3/31/06, McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:
> Through suggestion, and cookies.
>
> On 3/31/06, Martin Maney <maney at two14.net> wrote:
> >
> > Kiddie Roomba (SFW, but be careful if you start browsing)
> >
> >   http://www.nickscipio.com/funstuff/picture.html
> >
> > --
> > To read a book, to think it over, and to write out notes
> > is a useful exercise; a book which will not repay some hard thought
> > is not worth publishing.  -- Maria Mitchell
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From mtobis at gmail.com  Sat Apr  1 20:18:42 2006
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 12:18:42 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Okay, Chris, how you gonna wire this?
In-Reply-To: <43e95380604010954u44649968ie614cf56f63be8cd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20060331211620.GB18854@furrr.two14.net>
	<3096c19d0603311319g4a24b03dyed62ff3f71d1e950@mail.gmail.com>
	<43e95380604010954u44649968ie614cf56f63be8cd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c3aa55550604011018v75a0d567taa1cc2e6a04c848b@mail.gmail.com>

umm, the picture has changed...

mt

On 4/1/06, Nola Stowe <mrnicksgirl at gmail.com> wrote:
> Of all the lists I subscribe too.. chicago pm, chirb, chicago php
> group... python is by far the most entertaining.
>
> :)
>
> --
> http://PhpGirl.blogger.com
> http://CodeSnipers.com
>
>
> On 3/31/06, McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Through suggestion, and cookies.
> >
> > On 3/31/06, Martin Maney <maney at two14.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > Kiddie Roomba (SFW, but be careful if you start browsing)
> > >
> > >   http://www.nickscipio.com/funstuff/picture.html
> > >
> > > --
> > > To read a book, to think it over, and to write out notes
> > > is a useful exercise; a book which will not repay some hard thought
> > > is not worth publishing.  -- Maria Mitchell
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Chicago mailing list
> > > Chicago at python.org
> > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Sat Apr  1 20:22:37 2006
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 12:22:37 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Okay, Chris, how you gonna wire this?
In-Reply-To: <c3aa55550604011018v75a0d567taa1cc2e6a04c848b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20060331211620.GB18854@furrr.two14.net>
	<3096c19d0603311319g4a24b03dyed62ff3f71d1e950@mail.gmail.com>
	<43e95380604010954u44649968ie614cf56f63be8cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<c3aa55550604011018v75a0d567taa1cc2e6a04c848b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0604011022r1ada84fbp5ac535801cb050e3@mail.gmail.com>

I'm not going to check, but I'm pretty sure that "suggestion and
cookies" won't cut it anymore.

Chris

On 4/1/06, Michael Tobis <mtobis at gmail.com> wrote:
> umm, the picture has changed...
>
> mt
>
> On 4/1/06, Nola Stowe <mrnicksgirl at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Of all the lists I subscribe too.. chicago pm, chirb, chicago php
> > group... python is by far the most entertaining.
> >
> > :)
> >
> > --
> > http://PhpGirl.blogger.com
> > http://CodeSnipers.com
> >
> >
> > On 3/31/06, McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Through suggestion, and cookies.
> > >
> > > On 3/31/06, Martin Maney <maney at two14.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Kiddie Roomba (SFW, but be careful if you start browsing)
> > > >
> > > >   http://www.nickscipio.com/funstuff/picture.html
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > To read a book, to think it over, and to write out notes
> > > > is a useful exercise; a book which will not repay some hard thought
> > > > is not worth publishing.  -- Maria Mitchell
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Chicago mailing list
> > > > Chicago at python.org
> > > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Chicago mailing list
> > > Chicago at python.org
> > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From maney at two14.net  Sat Apr  1 23:32:34 2006
From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney)
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 15:32:34 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Okay, Chris, how you gonna wire this?
In-Reply-To: <c3aa55550604011018v75a0d567taa1cc2e6a04c848b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20060331211620.GB18854@furrr.two14.net>
	<3096c19d0603311319g4a24b03dyed62ff3f71d1e950@mail.gmail.com>
	<43e95380604010954u44649968ie614cf56f63be8cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<c3aa55550604011018v75a0d567taa1cc2e6a04c848b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060401213234.GA8917@furrr.two14.net>

On Sat, Apr 01, 2006 at 12:18:42PM -0600, Michael Tobis wrote:
> umm, the picture has changed...

Yeah, I was just thinking that I hadn't expected this thread to last
more than about ten minutes. If there's a way to get the stable link
for these things without waiting until it's no longer current, I don't
know the secret.  Sorry 'bout that.  If Chris would hang out in IRC
like a normal slacking IT worker, this stuff might never have needed to
get to the list.  :-)

-- 
Man's mind, once stretched by a new idea,
never regains its original dimensions.  -- Oliver Wendell Holmes


From tcp at uchicago.edu  Sat Apr  1 23:26:20 2006
From: tcp at uchicago.edu (Ted Pollari)
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 15:26:20 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Okay, Chris, how you gonna wire this?
In-Reply-To: <c3aa55550604011018v75a0d567taa1cc2e6a04c848b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20060331211620.GB18854@furrr.two14.net>
	<3096c19d0603311319g4a24b03dyed62ff3f71d1e950@mail.gmail.com>
	<43e95380604010954u44649968ie614cf56f63be8cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<c3aa55550604011018v75a0d567taa1cc2e6a04c848b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8714C202-4923-4AB1-A938-39357A8B2714@uchicago.edu>


On Apr 1, 2006, at 12:18 PM, Michael Tobis wrote:

> umm, the picture has changed...
>
> mt

oh boy...  that does kinda change the direction of the thread,  
doesn't it...

to get it back on track, I think this is a permanent link:

http://www.nickscipio.com/funstuff/ 
archive14/2006-03-31_japaneseinventions6.html


-ted

From tcp at uchicago.edu  Sat Apr  1 23:41:55 2006
From: tcp at uchicago.edu (Ted Pollari)
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 15:41:55 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Okay, Chris, how you gonna wire this?
In-Reply-To: <8714C202-4923-4AB1-A938-39357A8B2714@uchicago.edu>
References: <20060331211620.GB18854@furrr.two14.net>
	<3096c19d0603311319g4a24b03dyed62ff3f71d1e950@mail.gmail.com>
	<43e95380604010954u44649968ie614cf56f63be8cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<c3aa55550604011018v75a0d567taa1cc2e6a04c848b@mail.gmail.com>
	<8714C202-4923-4AB1-A938-39357A8B2714@uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <81EA2E31-D5D8-410C-9F82-273319C97C97@uchicago.edu>


On Apr 1, 2006, at 3:26 PM, Ted Pollari wrote:

> to get it back on track, I think this is a permanent link:
>
> http://www.nickscipio.com/funstuff/
> archive14/2006-03-31_japaneseinventions6.html


or, since my mail client breaks that url:

http://tinyurl.com/ps8ov

-ted


From durango at mail2world.com  Sat Apr  1 06:37:40 2006
From: durango at mail2world.com (Mr  X)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 20:37:40 -0800
Subject: [Chicago] Python, VB math simple problem
Message-ID: <2204a01c65546$02516c00$0a10010a@mail2world.com>



Hi looking for help with what should be a fairly simple Python problem,
relating to VB inter-operability.
Got a great response from a fellow named Matt at help at python.org,
pointed me in some good directions - some areas, concerns still foggy
on, the below thread is included.... any feedback on this simple dilemma
would be very appreciated.

Thanks,

D

thread follows below;

------------------------------------

To: help at python.org 
Subject: Problem with Python math functions and VB 
Date: 3/30/2006 9:39:28 PM 
Download Message Display Headers Printer Friendly 
Previous | Next 

Wondering if you might either know how to solve the following.

I've a background in Visual Basic, and am using an old version, 4.0, it
compiles to a smaller executable which I prefer. I find myself in an odd
situation, needing a very simple yet powerful capability of Python for a
VB app
Im working on.

Simply, a large 300 digit number is divided by a smaller number ranging
from 1 to 3 digits. I.e;

This large 300 digit number is generated as a string from the VB app,
and I want to input this somehow
from the VB app directly to Python for simple math operations.

Where; x = 300 digit number, y = divisor ( say '37')


x / 37

I want to divide x by y but I want the remainder of this division to at
least 3 or 4 decimal places, so my Python script at the command line;

x %y /y. = z

So now I want to take the resultant, the full number plus its remainder,
and I want to round this number up
to the next highest number and divide it by the same constant;

z rounded up to next highest number (never the lowest)

so

z /y = z Long

Remove the 'L' at the end, round up the last digit of z = Z

Then;

Z %y /y. = a

Then I want the last five digits of z (not Z) and a truncated at the
end, so the last digit before
the decimal point and the four digits past the decimal point printed to
a text file.

I want to be able to open the text file with the VB app and use this
data as inputs.
==========

Ok, so here is my dilemma, I know VERY litle about Python and a fair bit
about VB.

Ideally, I'd love to be able to simply have some extremely small
executable that just accepts inputs
does the calculations above and then spits out the outputs. If it were
possible to write some
simple lines of math code in Python and then compile these scripts in
Python to a Windows
compatible executable,that would be fantastic.

If I could simply have my VB app, 'call' the name of the tiny Python
executable, and then the Python executable
just automatically looked for a named text file (created by the VB app)
and extracted the 300 digit number from this, then performed the calcs,
then spit this data out as a new text file name it created, which I
could then use the VB app to open and read from, THAT would be ideal.

However, I don't know if Python can compile scripts to an exe? If it can
how could I find out how to do this?

If it doesn't, how could I get VB to directly pass commands to the
Python command line and then automatically
extract the outputs? Shelling out from VB to Python would be tough to
the command line I think, since the Python command line uses the 'Edit /
Mark, Paste' approach to inserting, copy inputs, outputs and this would
be virtually untenable, as far as I can tell to automate in a VB shell
out routine.

So basically, how the heck can I access Pythons ability to perform
simple calculations on very large numbers, easily, from within VB 4.0 ?
There must be a way, it seems like such a simple think to do, especially
since the actual math operations are so simple, straight forward, and
would never change.....

Any ideas?



------
Matthew, thanks for your response. 

<-----Original Message-----> 
>From: Matthew Dixon Cowles
>Sent: 3/31/2006 9:41:18 AM
>To: durango at mail2world.com
>Cc: help at python.org
>Subject: Re: [Python-Help] Problem with Python math functions and VB

>I'm sure that there's a way to do that, but I'm not familiar with 
>Visual Basic and I don't know what inter-process communication 
>facilities it offers. 

Is there a person or group you might direct me to that has worked with
this 
inter-process communication between VB and Python?

>I don't think that Python is going to be able to do that for you out 
>of the box. Hundreds of digits of floating-point precision is a lot. 

Could you explain that a bit more, sorry Im not sure what you mean
by 'out of the box' ? If I run the Python command line screen in windows
and manually type out a very large number, say 180 digits; where 'X' =
very large number;

X %37 /37.

returns what Im after, value wise..... but of course I don't want to do
this manually each time
for every dividend.

>You might find that one of the Python modules that let you use an 
>extended-precision library would do what you want. GMPY is one: 

>http://gmpy.sourceforge.net/ 

Hey, thats interesting, wonder if these modules can be operated on with
VB.....

>> So now I want to take the resultant, the full number plus its 
>> remainder, and I want to round this number up 
>> to the next highest number and divide it by the same constant; 
>
>That's easy enough. 
>
>> I want to be able to open the text file with the VB app and use this 
>> data as inputs. 
>
>Python can write to a file without any trouble, so it that form of 
>inter-process communication suits you, you shouldn't have much 
>trouble. I assume that Visual Basic has an easy way to start a 
>program and supply it with arguments, so you could have your Python 
>program get its inputs from sys.argv. 

What is sys.argv ? Thats really good news. In fact, all I really need
for the moment is
a python executable that;

================
PYTHON ALGORITHM ABSTRACT

a) opens a text file
b) reads a string from the file, which is a very large number
c) performs simple arithmetic operations;

X %37 /37. = y (four digit remainder after decimal point)
X /37 = w (quotient as long, the resulting output is stored as a
variable, the 'L' suffix tagged on the end of this resultant then gets
removed.
then the last digit in the quotient resultant string is increased in
value by one, rounded upwards = 'Z'

then 

Z %37 /37. = a

then, y and a are printed to a text file with hard returns between them.
Thats it, thats all I need to do.
===================
>Alas, it's not going to be extremely small. There isn't a compiler 
>from Python to machine code. Py2exe will bundle a Python program, 
>with everything that it needs to run, into a single executable 
>archive. But the archive isn't small. Py2exe is at: 
>
>http://www.py2exe.org/ 

the most important thing is the functionality, I'll sacrifice size if I
have to. My guess is this should work based on your comments, because
perhaps all I really have to do is have VB dump out the value of the
Very large number, `180 to 300 digits or so', to a text file, which then
becomes the input data for the Python executable, and then if I simply
call the name of the Python executable from VB as an instance,
then the Python App runs, spits out the data as a new text file, then
the VB app goes and opens the new text file and reads in the values,
and voila! There it is. I'm pretty sure I can call the Python app from
VB....... the alternative to all this would be to try and feed Python
scripts
directly to Python from VB, which I have NO idea how to do or where to
begin.... and am guessing would be much more messy...

I haven't programmed in Python, how would the "PYTHON ALGORITHM
ABSTRACT" I describe above look like, code wise? 
Is this fairly easy for you to describe?

>It may be that Python isn't the best solution for you here. Are there 
>extended-precision libraries for Visual Basic? 

Alas, none that I know of that are reliable and not incredibly
expensive, been looking for years, plus Im hooped because I have to work
with VB 4.0 instead of 6 +, guh.... 

>Regards, 
>Matt 

Matt..... good name, why do I always seem to get along with Matts, you
people keep popping up in my life and its always a blast!

Best regards,

D 


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From rcriii at ramsdells.net  Sun Apr  2 16:37:34 2006
From: rcriii at ramsdells.net (Robert Ramsdell)
Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 09:37:34 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Python, VB math simple problem
In-Reply-To: <2204a01c65546$02516c00$0a10010a@mail2world.com>
References: <2204a01c65546$02516c00$0a10010a@mail2world.com>
Message-ID: <1143988654.9393.50.camel@localhost.localdomain>

If VB4 does COM, you can use the pywin32 extensions
(https://sourceforge.net/projects/pywin32/) to expose the python module
as a COM object.  A 30-second google session convinces me that it
should.

So if your calculation was encapsulated in a python object that looks
something like this:

class StrangeDivision():
    
    def doDivision(x, y):
        #Do your strange set of manipulations
	return z

Generate a Clsid for your com module:

>>> import pythoncom
>>> print pythoncom.CreateGuid()
{7CC9F362-486D-11D1-BB48-0000E838A65F} <== do not use this one, make
your own!

Create a new python module that looks like this (you can do it in the
same file, but I think separating it is cleaner):

from StrangeDivision import StrangeDivision

class COMStrangeDivision(StrangeDivision):
    _public_methods_ = ['doDivision']
    _public_attrs_ = []
    #Like I said, create your own clsid for the following line
    _reg_clsid_ = "{7CC9F362-486D-11D1-BB48-0000E838A65F}"
    _reg_desc_ = "Do my calculation in python"
    _reg_progid_ = "StrangeDivision"

    def __init__(self):
        StrangeDivision.__init__(self)

#register is a module-level function
def register():
    import win32com.server.register
    win32com.server.register.UseCommandLine(COMStrangeDivision)

if __name__ == "__main__":
    register()

Now run the above module from the command line:
c:\somepath> python COMStrangeDivision.py

That was fun, now for the VB part (apologies if this does not work in
VB4):

Global pySD as Object
Set pySD = CreateObject("StrangeDivision")

z = pySD.doDivision(x,y)

See also:
http://www.python.org/windows/win32com/QuickStartServerCom.html

I've been meaning to write this up for some time, perhaps in the ChiPy
wiki?

Robert

On Fri, 2006-03-31 at 20:37 -0800, Mr X wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi looking for help with what should be a fairly simple Python
> problem, relating to VB inter-operability.
> Got a great response from a fellow named Matt at help at python.org,
> pointed me in some good directions - some areas, concerns still foggy
> on, the below thread is included.... any feedback on this simple
> dilemma
> would be very appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> D
> 
> thread follows below;
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> To: help at python.org 
> Subject: Problem with Python math functions and VB 
> Date: 3/30/2006 9:39:28 PM 
> Download Message Display Headers Printer Friendly 
> Previous | Next 
> 
> Wondering if you might either know how to solve the following.
> 
> I've a background in Visual Basic, and am using an old version, 4.0,
> it compiles to a smaller executable which I prefer. I find myself in
> an odd situation, needing a very simple yet powerful capability of
> Python for a VB app
> Im working on.
> 
> Simply, a large 300 digit number is divided by a smaller number
> ranging from 1 to 3 digits. I.e;
> 
> This large 300 digit number is generated as a string from the VB app,
> and I want to input this somehow
> from the VB app directly to Python for simple math operations.
> 
> Where; x = 300 digit number, y = divisor ( say '37')
> 
> 
> x / 37
> 
> I want to divide x by y but I want the remainder of this division to
> at least 3 or 4 decimal places, so my Python script at the command
> line;
> 
> x %y /y. = z
> 
> So now I want to take the resultant, the full number plus its
> remainder, and I want to round this number up
> to the next highest number and divide it by the same constant;
> 
> z rounded up to next highest number (never the lowest)
> 
> so
> 
> z /y = z Long
> 
> Remove the 'L' at the end, round up the last digit of z = Z
> 
> Then;
> 
> Z %y /y. = a
> 
> Then I want the last five digits of z (not Z) and a truncated at the
> end, so the last digit before
> the decimal point and the four digits past the decimal point printed
> to a text file.
> 
> I want to be able to open the text file with the VB app and use this
> data as inputs.
> ==========
> 
> Ok, so here is my dilemma, I know VERY litle about Python and a fair
> bit about VB.
> 
> Ideally, I'd love to be able to simply have some extremely small
> executable that just accepts inputs
> does the calculations above and then spits out the outputs. If it were
> possible to write some
> simple lines of math code in Python and then compile these scripts in
> Python to a Windows
> compatible executable,that would be fantastic.
> 
> If I could simply have my VB app, 'call' the name of the tiny Python
> executable, and then the Python executable
> just automatically looked for a named text file (created by the VB
> app) and extracted the 300 digit number from this, then performed the
> calcs, then spit this data out as a new text file name it created,
> which I could then use the VB app to open and read from, THAT would be
> ideal.
> 
> However, I don't know if Python can compile scripts to an exe? If it
> can how could I find out how to do this?
> 
> If it doesn't, how could I get VB to directly pass commands to the
> Python command line and then automatically
> extract the outputs? Shelling out from VB to Python would be tough to
> the command line I think, since the Python command line uses the
> 'Edit / Mark, Paste' approach to inserting, copy inputs, outputs and
> this would be virtually untenable, as far as I can tell to automate in
> a VB shell out routine.
> 
> So basically, how the heck can I access Pythons ability to perform
> simple calculations on very large numbers, easily, from within VB
> 4.0 ? There must be a way, it seems like such a simple think to do,
> especially since the actual math operations are so simple, straight
> forward, and would never change.....
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> 
> 
> ------
> Matthew, thanks for your response. 
> 
> <-----Original Message-----> 
> >From: Matthew Dixon Cowles
> >Sent: 3/31/2006 9:41:18 AM
> >To: durango at mail2world.com
> >Cc: help at python.org
> >Subject: Re: [Python-Help] Problem with Python math functions and VB
> 
> >I'm sure that there's a way to do that, but I'm not familiar with 
> >Visual Basic and I don't know what inter-process communication 
> >facilities it offers. 
> 
> Is there a person or group you might direct me to that has worked with
> this 
> inter-process communication between VB and Python?
> 
> >I don't think that Python is going to be able to do that for you out 
> >of the box. Hundreds of digits of floating-point precision is a lot. 
> 
> Could you explain that a bit more, sorry Im not sure what you mean
> by 'out of the box' ? If I run the Python command line screen in
> windows
> and manually type out a very large number, say 180 digits; where 'X' =
> very large number;
> 
> X %37 /37.
> 
> returns what Im after, value wise..... but of course I don't want to
> do this manually each time
> for every dividend.
> 
> >You might find that one of the Python modules that let you use an 
> >extended-precision library would do what you want. GMPY is one: 
> 
> >http://gmpy.sourceforge.net/ 
> 
> Hey, thats interesting, wonder if these modules can be operated on
> with VB.....
> 
> >> So now I want to take the resultant, the full number plus its 
> >> remainder, and I want to round this number up 
> >> to the next highest number and divide it by the same constant; 
> >
> >That's easy enough. 
> >
> >> I want to be able to open the text file with the VB app and use
> this 
> >> data as inputs. 
> >
> >Python can write to a file without any trouble, so it that form of 
> >inter-process communication suits you, you shouldn't have much 
> >trouble. I assume that Visual Basic has an easy way to start a 
> >program and supply it with arguments, so you could have your Python 
> >program get its inputs from sys.argv. 
> 
> What is sys.argv ? Thats really good news. In fact, all I really need
> for the moment is
> a python executable that;
> 
> ================
> PYTHON ALGORITHM ABSTRACT
> 
> a) opens a text file
> b) reads a string from the file, which is a very large number
> c) performs simple arithmetic operations;
> 
> X %37 /37. = y (four digit remainder after decimal point)
> X /37 = w (quotient as long, the resulting output is stored as a
> variable, the 'L' suffix tagged on the end of this resultant then gets
> removed.
> then the last digit in the quotient resultant string is increased in
> value by one, rounded upwards = 'Z'
> 
> then 
> 
> Z %37 /37. = a
> 
> then, y and a are printed to a text file with hard returns between
> them. Thats it, thats all I need to do.
> ===================
> >Alas, it's not going to be extremely small. There isn't a compiler 
> >from Python to machine code. Py2exe will bundle a Python program, 
> >with everything that it needs to run, into a single executable 
> >archive. But the archive isn't small. Py2exe is at: 
> >
> >http://www.py2exe.org/ 
> 
> the most important thing is the functionality, I'll sacrifice size if
> I have to. My guess is this should work based on your comments,
> because
> perhaps all I really have to do is have VB dump out the value of the
> Very large number, `180 to 300 digits or so', to a text file, which
> then
> becomes the input data for the Python executable, and then if I simply
> call the name of the Python executable from VB as an instance,
> then the Python App runs, spits out the data as a new text file, then
> the VB app goes and opens the new text file and reads in the values,
> and voila! There it is. I'm pretty sure I can call the Python app from
> VB....... the alternative to all this would be to try and feed Python
> scripts
> directly to Python from VB, which I have NO idea how to do or where to
> begin.... and am guessing would be much more messy...
> 
> I haven't programmed in Python, how would the "PYTHON ALGORITHM
> ABSTRACT" I describe above look like, code wise? 
> Is this fairly easy for you to describe?
> 
> >It may be that Python isn't the best solution for you here. Are
> there 
> >extended-precision libraries for Visual Basic? 
> 
> Alas, none that I know of that are reliable and not incredibly
> expensive, been looking for years, plus Im hooped because I have to
> work 
> with VB 4.0 instead of 6 +, guh.... 
> 
> >Regards, 
> >Matt 
> 
> Matt..... good name, why do I always seem to get along with Matts, you
> people keep popping up in my life and its always a blast!
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> D 
> 
> _______________________________________________________________
> Get the FREE email that has everyone talking at
> http://www.mail2world.com
> Unlimited Email Storage ? POP3 ? Calendar ? SMS ? Translator ? Much
> More!
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From mtobis at gmail.com  Mon Apr  3 17:21:30 2006
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 10:21:30 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] meeting app list
In-Reply-To: <20060331064839.GE14161@furrr.two14.net>
References: <33900.24.15.18.66.1143737540.squirrel@home.fawad.net>
	<442C1776.7020409@phaedrusdeinus.org>
	<36341.24.15.18.66.1143748447.squirrel@home.fawad.net>
	<20060331064839.GE14161@furrr.two14.net>
Message-ID: <c3aa55550604030821n1b02a4aj7c1fa1edb64fb93@mail.gmail.com>

I disagree with Martin, on the grounds that this is a special case. If
Google wants to slap ".py" everywhere this is a good thing.

Even the Google paranoid respect Google, and this is possibly not
failure to hide implementation detrails, so much as active promotion
of them.

mt

From ken at stox.org  Tue Apr  4 23:51:08 2006
From: ken at stox.org (Kenneth P. Stox)
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 16:51:08 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Trends in Language usage
Message-ID: <1144187468.18224.1.camel@stox.dyndns.org>

Python now at #8. up one from #9.

http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm



From JRHuggins at thoughtworks.COM  Wed Apr  5 01:02:14 2006
From: JRHuggins at thoughtworks.COM (Jason R Huggins)
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 18:02:14 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] April meeting - "In a world.... where machines clean
 the floors..."
In-Reply-To: <442C493E.8030001@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <OF0E5F9A50.3B877B2E-ON86257146.007D226D-86257146.007E8C44@thoughtworks.com>

Ian Bicking wrote on 03/30/2006 03:10:22 PM:
> This brings to mind a distopian playground future, where we have to find 

> a way to live our lives only from the second floor or higher.  Don't 
> touch the carpet, or the roombas will eat you.

Why do I get the feeling that right now, somewhere in Hollywood, there is 
a team of Warner Bros. writers cranking out a screenplay for this very 
idea. :-)

And if there isn't, though... there should be... :-) 

Perhaps you should bang out a quick short story on the subject before 
anyone else does so you can earn a cut of the royalties from the future 
release of the Schwarzenegger epic "Roomba 2: Cleaning Day"

-Jason

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Wed Apr  5 18:49:51 2006
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 11:49:51 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] OSX Python
Message-ID: <3096c19d0604050949m2b07668bld85b86ece93f82c8@mail.gmail.com>

I saw this today on http://www.python.org/download/releases/2.4.3/

"""
Ronald Oussoren has created a universal installer for Mac OS X 10.3
and later - you can just fetch Universal-MacPython-2.4.3.dmg. The
Universal MacPython 2.4.3 image contains an installer for python 2.4.3
that works on Mac OS X 10.3.9 and later on both PPC and Intel macs and
includes both bsddb and readline."""

I've been so irritated with pre-packaged Python's (including Fink and
DarwinPorts) that I've compiled it myself pretty consistently for the
past year or so.  I'll probably try this new release though, as I like
having supported software (as I'm lazy).

How do you other Mac folks get your Python on?

Chris

From tcp at uchicago.edu  Wed Apr  5 18:53:02 2006
From: tcp at uchicago.edu (Ted Pollari)
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 11:53:02 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] OSX Python
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0604050949m2b07668bld85b86ece93f82c8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0604050949m2b07668bld85b86ece93f82c8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0436F3AB-650D-41F0-8A70-C8F86C12BA44@uchicago.edu>


On Apr 5, 2006, at 11:49 AM, Chris McAvoy wrote:

>
> How do you other Mac folks get your Python on?


source, of course.

-- 
Ted Pollari
Research Programmer
Department of Health Studies
The University of Chicago
tcp at uchicago.edu
773.834.0559



From david at graniteweb.com  Wed Apr  5 18:58:25 2006
From: david at graniteweb.com (David Rock)
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 11:58:25 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] OSX Python
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0604050949m2b07668bld85b86ece93f82c8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0604050949m2b07668bld85b86ece93f82c8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060405165825.GA20208@wdfs.graniteweb.com>

* Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> [2006-04-05 11:49]:
> I saw this today on http://www.python.org/download/releases/2.4.3/
> 
> How do you other Mac folks get your Python on?

Packaged, when possible.  I'm lazier than you are, plus most of what I
do is lightweight enough that I don't need fancy stuff, although I still
grab the source to get the ancillary directories that tend to be left
out of packages.

-- 
David Rock
david at graniteweb.com

From mtobis at gmail.com  Wed Apr  5 19:23:58 2006
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 12:23:58 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] OSX Python
In-Reply-To: <20060405165825.GA20208@wdfs.graniteweb.com>
References: <3096c19d0604050949m2b07668bld85b86ece93f82c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<20060405165825.GA20208@wdfs.graniteweb.com>
Message-ID: <c3aa55550604051023x46585e0co899387965cf866c6@mail.gmail.com>

It's getting better, both because people put more care into their
packages and because I'm getting better at filling the irritating
gaps, but I always use packages when I can.

My idea of how to upgrade Python on OS X is in steps 1 and 2 at
http://geosci.uchicago.edu/~tobis/pylab.html
which is sort of the quasi-official ipython/Matplotlib on OS X install page.

mt

On 4/5/06, David Rock <david at graniteweb.com> wrote:
> * Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> [2006-04-05 11:49]:
> > I saw this today on http://www.python.org/download/releases/2.4.3/
> >
> > How do you other Mac folks get your Python on?
>
> Packaged, when possible.  I'm lazier than you are, plus most of what I
> do is lightweight enough that I don't need fancy stuff, although I still
> grab the source to get the ancillary directories that tend to be left
> out of packages.
>
> --
> David Rock
> david at graniteweb.com
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From pfein at pobox.com  Wed Apr  5 19:40:31 2006
From: pfein at pobox.com (Peter Fein)
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 12:40:31 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Unix Development on OSX was Re: OSX Python
In-Reply-To: <c3aa55550604051023x46585e0co899387965cf866c6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0604050949m2b07668bld85b86ece93f82c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<20060405165825.GA20208@wdfs.graniteweb.com>
	<c3aa55550604051023x46585e0co899387965cf866c6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200604051240.32200.pfein@pobox.com>

On Wednesday 05 April 2006 12:23 pm, Michael Tobis wrote:
> It's getting better, both because people put more care into their
> packages and because I'm getting better at filling the irritating
> gaps, but I always use packages when I can.

How are people finding doing unix (specifically Linux) development on OSX?  
Our servers run Gentoo, so I run it on my laptop.  I like the Mac as GUI 
environment, but am concerned about it's BSD heritage when working in a GNU 
world.

Not that I have the $$$ for a new Mac anyway. ;)

-- 
Peter Fein                                                     pfein at pobox.com
773-575-0694                                      Jabber: peter.fein at gmail.com

From ray at nd.edu  Wed Apr  5 19:41:55 2006
From: ray at nd.edu (Ray Hernandez)
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 13:41:55 -0400
Subject: [Chicago] OSX Python
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0604050949m2b07668bld85b86ece93f82c8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0604050949m2b07668bld85b86ece93f82c8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060405174154.GD11848@localdomain>

On Wed, Apr 05, 2006 at 11:49:51AM -0500, Chris McAvoy wrote:
> How do you other Mac folks get your Python on?

I did the fink install and it did build it from source as far as I could
tell. That is how I do it.
--Ray 

-- 
Ray Hernandez
Systems Engineer, Messaging Services 
Office of Information Technology
University of Notre Dame
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From bray at sent.com  Wed Apr  5 20:01:19 2006
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 13:01:19 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Unix Development on OSX was Re: OSX Python
In-Reply-To: <200604051240.32200.pfein@pobox.com>
References: <3096c19d0604050949m2b07668bld85b86ece93f82c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<20060405165825.GA20208@wdfs.graniteweb.com>
	<c3aa55550604051023x46585e0co899387965cf866c6@mail.gmail.com>
	<200604051240.32200.pfein@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <33AED262-3518-4C70-A315-DA22C0D87274@sent.com>


Recently, I have been using ddd <http://www.gnu.org/software/ddd/>  
with makefiles from VIM to debug Unix builds on OSX. In runs on X11  
although.  And of course it has some Python PDB integration although  
I have not gotten to checking this out yet.   Besides that, I use a  
lot of Xcode which is a nice IDE build on top of gdb and gcc. This is  
much more Unix like than Codewarrior, which is dead now because they  
did not want to go to Intel.

Basically, OSX 's unix is nice and you should be able to build  
anything you want on your mac. Darwin port is nice when you do not  
have the time to fiddle with headers and compile flags.

Python has amazing OSX support. Both, on the unix level and on a  
higher level. I think here <http://undefined.org/python/> is where I  
got the Python version I run. But, hey, OSX has shipped with Python  
all along and it works just fine. Although, one thing to be careful  
about is to realize which Python your running.

On the BSD level, most of the headers are the same you will use on  
other platforms. If your careful you know what your doing you can mix  
some of these with some of the System stuff.

-- bhr

From varmaa at gmail.com  Wed Apr  5 20:20:41 2006
From: varmaa at gmail.com (Atul Varma)
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 13:20:41 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Unix Development on OSX was Re: OSX Python
In-Reply-To: <200604051240.32200.pfein@pobox.com>
References: <3096c19d0604050949m2b07668bld85b86ece93f82c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<20060405165825.GA20208@wdfs.graniteweb.com>
	<c3aa55550604051023x46585e0co899387965cf866c6@mail.gmail.com>
	<200604051240.32200.pfein@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <361b27370604051120r5b6a426dpfea226bbff9a4232@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/5/06, Peter Fein <pfein at pobox.com> wrote:
> How are people finding doing unix (specifically Linux) development on OSX?
> Our servers run Gentoo, so I run it on my laptop.  I like the Mac as GUI
> environment, but am concerned about it's BSD heritage when working in a GNU
> world.

I ported a few of my Unix applications and Python C extensions to OS X
about a year ago and found it to be very confusing at the time.  The
basic problem I ran into was that OS X wasn't "just" a Unix
platform--it inherited a lot of its architecture from NextStep and
felt a little schizophrenic at times.  For instance, when trying to
link my Python C extension into a shared object file, I was confronted
with an unfamiliar world of frameworks and bundles.  It took me quite
a while to figure out what exactly I needed to do, which was further
complicated by the fact that OS X's linking semantics changed between
minor version numbers.

Anyhow, the thing I really wish I had when porting my app was a book
like "Mac OS X Tiger for Unix Geeks":

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0596009127/ref=pd_sbs_b_4/102-1259263-5579343?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=283155

I haven't actually read this book yet, but the next time I have to do
anything with OS X, I'm definitely picking it up.  As someone who's
only *really* familiar with Linux when it comes to Unix systems, I
personally found OS X development to be fairly confusing at first
encounter.

- Atul

From bray at sent.com  Wed Apr  5 20:36:09 2006
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 13:36:09 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Unix Development on OSX was Re: OSX Python
In-Reply-To: <361b27370604051120r5b6a426dpfea226bbff9a4232@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0604050949m2b07668bld85b86ece93f82c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<20060405165825.GA20208@wdfs.graniteweb.com>
	<c3aa55550604051023x46585e0co899387965cf866c6@mail.gmail.com>
	<200604051240.32200.pfein@pobox.com>
	<361b27370604051120r5b6a426dpfea226bbff9a4232@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <77B327E2-BADD-44F0-8852-CB863402B3DF@sent.com>


On Apr 5, 2006, at 1:20 PM, Atul Varma wrote:

>   The basic problem I ran into was that OS X wasn't "just" a Unix
> platform--it inherited a lot of its architecture from NextStep and
> felt a little schizophrenic at times

Ok, I believe your right about this. Although, you do not need to use  
Frameworks and App Bundles if your building just a unix tool. BTW,  
Python builds as a framework. Frameworks are a really cool thing.  
Although, we are talking unix here (And they can still be used) but  
if your building something to run elsewhere you may want a different  
build target altogether.

One way to help you get started, even if you do not wish to use Xcode  
for development, is to take a look at the "New Project" templates in  
Xcode. Choose one you wish to build: Command Line Tool, BSD Dynamic  
Library, Carbon Applications, ... then look at the compiler flags  
when you go and build a Hello World. Just give gcc or whatever the  
same Compile and Linker flags.

Your right about the schizophrenia. One thing about Mac's in general  
is that you should keep things up to date and expect to buy a new  
operating system when it comes out. As a developer on Mac, Apple has  
driven me near mad with the Classic CFM/PEF switch to Mach-O and not  
the Universal Binary switch to Intel.

Again, if we are just talking about a unix app to run elsewhere this  
is fairly simple.

Insanely your,

Brian Ray



From dbt at meat.net  Wed Apr  5 20:35:16 2006
From: dbt at meat.net (David Terrell)
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 13:35:16 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Unix Development on OSX was Re: OSX Python
In-Reply-To: <200604051240.32200.pfein@pobox.com>
References: <3096c19d0604050949m2b07668bld85b86ece93f82c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<20060405165825.GA20208@wdfs.graniteweb.com>
	<c3aa55550604051023x46585e0co899387965cf866c6@mail.gmail.com>
	<200604051240.32200.pfein@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20060405183516.GB2818@sphinx.chicagopeoplez.org>

On Wed, Apr 05, 2006 at 12:40:31PM -0500, Peter Fein wrote:
> On Wednesday 05 April 2006 12:23 pm, Michael Tobis wrote:
> > It's getting better, both because people put more care into their
> > packages and because I'm getting better at filling the irritating
> > gaps, but I always use packages when I can.
> 
> How are people finding doing unix (specifically Linux) development on OSX?  
> Our servers run Gentoo, so I run it on my laptop.  I like the Mac as GUI 
> environment, but am concerned about it's BSD heritage when working in a GNU 
> world.

It already ships with a decent number of GNU tools, but being BSD
friendly is good anyway. :)

Modern stuff should build on any unix, cross-unix portability is so
much less painful than it was in say the late 80s/early 90s.


From pfein at pobox.com  Wed Apr  5 20:35:25 2006
From: pfein at pobox.com (Peter Fein)
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 13:35:25 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Unix Development on OSX was Re: OSX Python
In-Reply-To: <200604051240.32200.pfein@pobox.com>
References: <3096c19d0604050949m2b07668bld85b86ece93f82c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<c3aa55550604051023x46585e0co899387965cf866c6@mail.gmail.com>
	<200604051240.32200.pfein@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <200604051335.26554.pfein@pobox.com>

On Wednesday 05 April 2006 12:40 pm, Peter Fein wrote:
> Not that I have the $$$ for a new Mac anyway. ;)

I should add that I like the erasermouse and Synaptics touchpad on my Thinkpad 
too much.

Stupid hardware lock-in. ;)

-- 
Peter Fein                                                     pfein at pobox.com
773-575-0694                                      Jabber: peter.fein at gmail.com

From tundra at tundraware.com  Wed Apr  5 20:39:24 2006
From: tundra at tundraware.com (Tim Daneliuk)
Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 13:39:24 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] {Slightly OT}: From Markup To Powerpoint?
In-Reply-To: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB6CB@MX3.chx.com>
References: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB6CB@MX3.chx.com>
Message-ID: <44340EDC.1010408@tundraware.com>

Robare, Phil wrote:

> Tim Daneliuk on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 4:19 PM wrote
> 
>>I am a huge fan of Restructured Text.  However, I often find
>>myself in the situation where I need to distill my notes into 
>>a Powerpoint deck. Is there a tool that can can produce 
>>Powerpoint from RST markup? Failing that, is there another 
>>markup tool that could do this? I hate having to fiddle with
>>interactive slide tuning.  I'd much prefer a kind of canned 
>>way to do this, perhaps under makefile control.
> 
> 
> I'm not sure how it would fit with RST, but S5 is a toolkit (javascript
> + stylesheets) from http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/tools/s5/ that lets you
> create slideshows that are XHTML.
> 
> Phil

Awrrighty then - I followed the (many) recommendations to try s5.
It works as advertised but I am struggling with something I hope
someone else has the "quick fix" for:  I cannot seem to get RST
to recognize new s5 themes properly.  I copy the new theme files
(that I got from the s5 site) to:

  C:\Program Files\Python\Lib\site-packages\docutils\writers\s5_html\themes\new-theme-name


Then I run:

   rst2s5.py --theme new-theme-name myfile.txt myfile.html

This produces and html file that does *not* properly pickup the new theme
even though that theme *has* been copied to ./ui

Ideas anyone?

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk     tundra at tundraware.com
PGP Key:         http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/


From chad at glendenin.com  Wed Apr  5 21:39:35 2006
From: chad at glendenin.com (Chad Glendenin)
Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 14:39:35 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Unix Development on OSX was Re: OSX Python
In-Reply-To: <200604051335.26554.pfein@pobox.com>
References: <3096c19d0604050949m2b07668bld85b86ece93f82c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<c3aa55550604051023x46585e0co899387965cf866c6@mail.gmail.com>
	<200604051240.32200.pfein@pobox.com>
	<200604051335.26554.pfein@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <1144265975.30224.258405214@webmail.messagingengine.com>

I've tried to switch to OS X for scientific visualization, but it's been
a pain. On Linux, everything I've needed to do has just worked, but I
keep running into problems on OS X.

Here's an example. I needed to malloc a 3-gig buffer. With Linux on a
64-bit Opteron with 8 gigs of RAM, it just works. With OS X on a 64-bit
G5 with 8 gigs of RAM, it fails. I've been told that you only get a 2 GB
address space on OS X, and to use more memory, you need to have a
separate worker thread that talks to libSystem to get the memory,
because, apparently, OS X is only partially 64-bit, and 64-bit stuff in
your code only works as long as it only talks to 64-bit components of
the OS. It was a lot quicker and easier to copy my data to the
Linux/Opteron box and run the code there.

The problems with OS X haven't been insurmountable; it's just that
things seem to be quicker and easier on Linux. I've also run into some
OSX-is-not-quite-Unix problems like Atul mentioned. For example, X11.app
on the Mac has given me problems with its alpha channel, but XFree86 and
X.org on Linux have worked fine.

Also, the Powerbook keyboard layout is not very good, even though OS X
10.4 now makes it easy to remap certain keys, e.g., Caps Lock to Ctrl.
It's not possible to press Home, End, Page Up, or Page Down with one
hand (unless you're Shaq). The left Ctrl key is in the wrong place (IBM
is guilty of that too). There's no right Ctrl key. Nobody seems to know
what the difference is between Enter and Return, but Apple gives you
both, and they put the Enter key where an Option or Ctrl key should have
gone. And the function keys are too small.

ccg


On Wed, 5 Apr 2006 13:35:25 -0500, "Peter Fein" <pfein at pobox.com> said:
> On Wednesday 05 April 2006 12:40 pm, Peter Fein wrote:
> > Not that I have the $$$ for a new Mac anyway. ;)
> 
> I should add that I like the erasermouse and Synaptics touchpad on my
> Thinkpad 
> too much.
> 
> Stupid hardware lock-in. ;)
> 
> -- 
> Peter Fein                                                    
> pfein at pobox.com
> 773-575-0694                                      Jabber:
> peter.fein at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Wed Apr  5 22:07:16 2006
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 15:07:16 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Unix Development on OSX was Re: OSX Python
In-Reply-To: <1144265975.30224.258405214@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <3096c19d0604050949m2b07668bld85b86ece93f82c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<c3aa55550604051023x46585e0co899387965cf866c6@mail.gmail.com>
	<200604051240.32200.pfein@pobox.com>
	<200604051335.26554.pfein@pobox.com>
	<1144265975.30224.258405214@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0604051307q511a876eyc5846145182886a5@mail.gmail.com>

I'd like it very much if this email were a televised "switch back"
commercial.  That would be pretty funny.

On 4/5/06, Chad Glendenin <chad at glendenin.com> wrote:
> I've tried to switch to OS X for scientific visualization, but it's been
> a pain. On Linux, everything I've needed to do has just worked, but I
> keep running into problems on OS X.
>
> Here's an example. I needed to malloc a 3-gig buffer. With Linux on a
> 64-bit Opteron with 8 gigs of RAM, it just works. With OS X on a 64-bit
> G5 with 8 gigs of RAM, it fails. I've been told that you only get a 2 GB
> address space on OS X, and to use more memory, you need to have a
> separate worker thread that talks to libSystem to get the memory,
> because, apparently, OS X is only partially 64-bit, and 64-bit stuff in
> your code only works as long as it only talks to 64-bit components of
> the OS. It was a lot quicker and easier to copy my data to the
> Linux/Opteron box and run the code there.
>
> The problems with OS X haven't been insurmountable; it's just that
> things seem to be quicker and easier on Linux. I've also run into some
> OSX-is-not-quite-Unix problems like Atul mentioned. For example, X11.app
> on the Mac has given me problems with its alpha channel, but XFree86 and
> X.org on Linux have worked fine.
>
> Also, the Powerbook keyboard layout is not very good, even though OS X
> 10.4 now makes it easy to remap certain keys, e.g., Caps Lock to Ctrl.
> It's not possible to press Home, End, Page Up, or Page Down with one
> hand (unless you're Shaq). The left Ctrl key is in the wrong place (IBM
> is guilty of that too). There's no right Ctrl key. Nobody seems to know
> what the difference is between Enter and Return, but Apple gives you
> both, and they put the Enter key where an Option or Ctrl key should have
> gone. And the function keys are too small.
>
> ccg
>
>
> On Wed, 5 Apr 2006 13:35:25 -0500, "Peter Fein" <pfein at pobox.com> said:
> > On Wednesday 05 April 2006 12:40 pm, Peter Fein wrote:
> > > Not that I have the $$$ for a new Mac anyway. ;)
> >
> > I should add that I like the erasermouse and Synaptics touchpad on my
> > Thinkpad
> > too much.
> >
> > Stupid hardware lock-in. ;)
> >
> > --
> > Peter Fein
> > pfein at pobox.com
> > 773-575-0694                                      Jabber:
> > peter.fein at gmail.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From david at graniteweb.com  Wed Apr  5 22:33:50 2006
From: david at graniteweb.com (David Rock)
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 15:33:50 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Unix Development on OSX was Re: OSX Python
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0604051307q511a876eyc5846145182886a5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0604050949m2b07668bld85b86ece93f82c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<c3aa55550604051023x46585e0co899387965cf866c6@mail.gmail.com>
	<200604051240.32200.pfein@pobox.com>
	<200604051335.26554.pfein@pobox.com>
	<1144265975.30224.258405214@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<3096c19d0604051307q511a876eyc5846145182886a5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060405203350.GA21074@wdfs.graniteweb.com>

* Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> [2006-04-05 15:07]:
> I'd like it very much if this email were a televised "switch back"
> commercial.  That would be pretty funny.

Not sure that is exactly what would make sense.  "Switching" implies
going from Windows/PC to OSX/Mac.  The rules are a bit blurry when you
talk about using Linux instead.  How about "keep switching", that seems
to be what I keep doing :-)

-- 
David Rock
david at graniteweb.com

From mrnicksgirl at gmail.com  Thu Apr  6 02:24:41 2006
From: mrnicksgirl at gmail.com (Nola Stowe)
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 19:24:41 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Unix Development on OSX was Re: OSX Python
In-Reply-To: <20060405203350.GA21074@wdfs.graniteweb.com>
References: <3096c19d0604050949m2b07668bld85b86ece93f82c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<c3aa55550604051023x46585e0co899387965cf866c6@mail.gmail.com>
	<200604051240.32200.pfein@pobox.com>
	<200604051335.26554.pfein@pobox.com>
	<1144265975.30224.258405214@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<3096c19d0604051307q511a876eyc5846145182886a5@mail.gmail.com>
	<20060405203350.GA21074@wdfs.graniteweb.com>
Message-ID: <43e95380604051724u4d354c9bs87ea16d03c970a8@mail.gmail.com>

So what is the lure of the mac?

Now they can have intel chips ... now they can have XP ..

why would I want a mac?



On 4/5/06, David Rock <david at graniteweb.com> wrote:
> * Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> [2006-04-05 15:07]:
> > I'd like it very much if this email were a televised "switch back"
> > commercial.  That would be pretty funny.
>
> Not sure that is exactly what would make sense.  "Switching" implies
> going from Windows/PC to OSX/Mac.  The rules are a bit blurry when you
> talk about using Linux instead.  How about "keep switching", that seems
> to be what I keep doing :-)
>
> --
> David Rock
> david at graniteweb.com
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>


--
http://PhpGirl.blogger.com
http://CodeSnipers.com

From skip at pobox.com  Thu Apr  6 04:20:45 2006
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 21:20:45 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] OSX Python
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0604050949m2b07668bld85b86ece93f82c8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0604050949m2b07668bld85b86ece93f82c8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <17460.31485.687039.196193@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Chris> How do you other Mac folks get your Python on?

I don't do much Mac-specific with Python, so I just build a normal Unix
version from SVN trunk.

Skip

From garrett at mojave-corp.com  Thu Apr  6 17:22:47 2006
From: garrett at mojave-corp.com (Garrett Smith)
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 10:22:47 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] OSX Python
Message-ID: <SNSHFEA103Xj7gC2DWp0000051c@Snshfea103.4smartphone.snx>

I ask to borrow other people's laptops when I need > 2.4.2.

-----Original Message-----
From: "Chris McAvoy" <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com>
To: "The Chicago Python Users Group" <chicago at python.org>
Sent: 4/5/06 11:49 AM
Subject: [Chicago] OSX Python

I saw this today on http://www.python.org/download/releases/2.4.3/

"""
Ronald Oussoren has created a universal installer for Mac OS X 10.3
and later - you can just fetch Universal-MacPython-2.4.3.dmg. The
Universal MacPython 2.4.3 image contains an installer for python 2.4.3
that works on Mac OS X 10.3.9 and later on both PPC and Intel macs and
includes both bsddb and readline."""

I've been so irritated with pre-packaged Python's (including Fink and
DarwinPorts) that I've compiled it myself pretty consistently for the
past year or so.  I'll probably try this new release though, as I like
having supported software (as I'm lazy).

How do you other Mac folks get your Python on?

Chris
_______________________________________________
Chicago mailing list
Chicago at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From fawad at fawad.net  Thu Apr  6 20:35:00 2006
From: fawad at fawad.net (Fawad Halim)
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 13:35:00 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Chicago] Unix Development on OSX was Re: OSX Python
In-Reply-To: <43e95380604051724u4d354c9bs87ea16d03c970a8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0604050949m2b07668bld85b86ece93f82c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<c3aa55550604051023x46585e0co899387965cf866c6@mail.gmail.com>
	<200604051240.32200.pfein@pobox.com>
	<200604051335.26554.pfein@pobox.com>
	<1144265975.30224.258405214@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<3096c19d0604051307q511a876eyc5846145182886a5@mail.gmail.com>
	<20060405203350.GA21074@wdfs.graniteweb.com>
	<43e95380604051724u4d354c9bs87ea16d03c970a8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <33304.24.15.18.66.1144348500.squirrel@home.fawad.net>

Because OSX is so nifty. Also, because the software comes from the same
company that manufactures the hardware, everything is much better tied
together than in (Win|Lin)tel land.

Oh, and the wireless card can do double duty as an access point, which
came in handy at the last sprint (thanks Brian).

If I could afford one, I'd definitely get me a mac notebook.

-fawad

On Wed, April 5, 2006 19:24, Nola Stowe wrote:
> So what is the lure of the mac?
>
>
> Now they can have intel chips ... now they can have XP ..
>
>
> why would I want a mac?
>
>
>
> On 4/5/06, David Rock <david at graniteweb.com> wrote:
>
>> * Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> [2006-04-05 15:07]:
>>
>>> I'd like it very much if this email were a televised "switch back"
>>> commercial.  That would be pretty funny.
>>
>> Not sure that is exactly what would make sense.  "Switching" implies
>> going from Windows/PC to OSX/Mac.  The rules are a bit blurry when you
>> talk about using Linux instead.  How about "keep switching", that seems
>>  to be what I keep doing :-)
>>
>> --
>> David Rock
>> david at graniteweb.com _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> http://PhpGirl.blogger.com
> http://CodeSnipers.com
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
>



From stephen at theboulets.net  Fri Apr  7 00:27:20 2006
From: stephen at theboulets.net (Stephen Boulet)
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 17:27:20 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] OSX Python
In-Reply-To: <17460.31485.687039.196193@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <3096c19d0604050949m2b07668bld85b86ece93f82c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<17460.31485.687039.196193@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20060406222720.M76487@theboulets.net>

On Wed, 5 Apr 2006 21:20:45 -0500, skip wrote
> Chris> How do you other Mac folks get your Python on?
> 
> I don't do much Mac-specific with Python, so I just build a normal Unix
> version from SVN trunk.
> 
> Skip

I used the binary universal installer for 2.4.2(?). It was linked on the
macpython list.

I don't like opendarwin's way, since all of the gui toolkits will then work
only in the xserver.

_________
Stephen      

If your desktop gets out of control easily,
you probably have too much stuff on it that
doesn't need to be there.
         Donna Smallin, "Unclutter Your Home"

From richbiah2006 at kellogg.northwestern.edu  Sat Apr  8 22:51:43 2006
From: richbiah2006 at kellogg.northwestern.edu (Romain ICHBIAH)
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 15:51:43 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Help wanted: geniuses only
Message-ID: <002501c65b4e$3e44f0c0$d0389418@ric687T43>

Hi. 

 

I am currently working on a very ambitious start-up project and I am looking
for talented and motivated programmers to join me. 

 

Ideal candidates meet the following criteria:

-          Super Smart

-          Strong in Maths

-          Highly motivated

-          Cheap (sorry)

 

 

More conspicuously, I am particularly interested in: 

 

-          Lispers

-          Pythoners

-          Architects. 

 

If interested, please contact me.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

____________________________________________________________

Romain ICHBIAH

 

 

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From bray at sent.com  Tue Apr 11 16:03:21 2006
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 09:03:21 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] April Chipy Meeting
Message-ID: <104F2CC9-216D-489B-A237-088AE344E36A@sent.com>

Hi All:

I am trying to put together the announcement  for our next meeting.  
Have we decided on a location and topics? If so, could someone kindly  
reiterate these to me?

--bhr

From varmaa at gmail.com  Tue Apr 11 16:59:17 2006
From: varmaa at gmail.com (Atul Varma)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 09:59:17 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] April Chipy Meeting
In-Reply-To: <104F2CC9-216D-489B-A237-088AE344E36A@sent.com>
References: <104F2CC9-216D-489B-A237-088AE344E36A@sent.com>
Message-ID: <361b27370604110759q2a975256w61487009077382a0@mail.gmail.com>

As far as I know, Chad will be giving one or two presentations on one
or both of his Python modules:

   httpy -- a sane and robust HTTP library
    http://www.zetadev.com/software/httpy/

  testosterone -- a curses-based testing interface
    http://www.zetadev.com/software/tesosterone/

And I'll be giving a presentation on SCons.

- Atul

On 4/11/06, Brian Ray <bray at sent.com> wrote:
> Hi All:
>
> I am trying to put together the announcement  for our next meeting.
> Have we decided on a location and topics? If so, could someone kindly
> reiterate these to me?
>
> --bhr
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From bray at sent.com  Tue Apr 11 17:18:24 2006
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 10:18:24 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] April Chipy Meeting
In-Reply-To: <361b27370604110759q2a975256w61487009077382a0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <104F2CC9-216D-489B-A237-088AE344E36A@sent.com>
	<361b27370604110759q2a975256w61487009077382a0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <08418201-AE52-4D65-9E04-3286622B60E7@sent.com>

Great!

Now for the location, did we reserve Monadnock? If not, any offers.

--bhr


On Apr 11, 2006, at 9:59 AM, Atul Varma wrote:

> As far as I know, Chad will be giving one or two presentations on one
> or both of his Python modules:
>
>    httpy -- a sane and robust HTTP library
>     http://www.zetadev.com/software/httpy/
>
>   testosterone -- a curses-based testing interface
>     http://www.zetadev.com/software/tesosterone/
>
> And I'll be giving a presentation on SCons.
>
> - Atul
>
> On 4/11/06, Brian Ray <bray at sent.com> wrote:
>> Hi All:
>>
>> I am trying to put together the announcement  for our next meeting.
>> Have we decided on a location and topics? If so, could someone kindly
>> reiterate these to me?
>>
>> --bhr
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From mtobis at gmail.com  Tue Apr 11 17:54:23 2006
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 10:54:23 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] April Chipy Meeting
In-Reply-To: <08418201-AE52-4D65-9E04-3286622B60E7@sent.com>
References: <104F2CC9-216D-489B-A237-088AE344E36A@sent.com>
	<361b27370604110759q2a975256w61487009077382a0@mail.gmail.com>
	<08418201-AE52-4D65-9E04-3286622B60E7@sent.com>
Message-ID: <c3aa55550604110854w3b46edf0y7fc9f4af4994c7ff@mail.gmail.com>

I took the hint. The Monadnock is reserved for Thursday evening.

Room 826, 7 PM, 53 W Jackson Blvd.

mt


On 4/11/06, Brian Ray <bray at sent.com> wrote:
> Great!
>
> Now for the location, did we reserve Monadnock? If not, any offers.
>
> --bhr
>
>
> On Apr 11, 2006, at 9:59 AM, Atul Varma wrote:
>
> > As far as I know, Chad will be giving one or two presentations on one
> > or both of his Python modules:
> >
> >    httpy -- a sane and robust HTTP library
> >     http://www.zetadev.com/software/httpy/
> >
> >   testosterone -- a curses-based testing interface
> >     http://www.zetadev.com/software/tesosterone/
> >
> > And I'll be giving a presentation on SCons.
> >
> > - Atul
> >
> > On 4/11/06, Brian Ray <bray at sent.com> wrote:
> >> Hi All:
> >>
> >> I am trying to put together the announcement  for our next meeting.
> >> Have we decided on a location and topics? If so, could someone kindly
> >> reiterate these to me?
> >>
> >> --bhr
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Chicago mailing list
> >> Chicago at python.org
> >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From chad at zetaweb.com  Tue Apr 11 17:35:36 2006
From: chad at zetaweb.com (Chad Whitacre)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 11:35:36 -0400
Subject: [Chicago] confirmation re: April meeting
Message-ID: <443BCCC8.9030407@zetaweb.com>

Brian, Atul, et al.,

This is just to confirm that yes, I am planning to join you all this 
Thursday April 13. I am prepared to give a short talk on "Websites from 
scratch with httpy."

Looking forward to it!



chad

From mtobis at gmail.com  Tue Apr 11 20:23:02 2006
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 13:23:02 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] confirmation re: April meeting
In-Reply-To: <443BCCC8.9030407@zetaweb.com>
References: <443BCCC8.9030407@zetaweb.com>
Message-ID: <c3aa55550604111123i37e598ffu63c8aa27164aab73@mail.gmail.com>

Chad,

We actually were thinking you would be able to present on your testing
tool as well.

Otherwise we can try to scare someone up for "Module of the Month"

mt

From ianb at colorstudy.com  Tue Apr 11 20:30:28 2006
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 13:30:28 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] April Chipy Meeting
In-Reply-To: <c3aa55550604110854w3b46edf0y7fc9f4af4994c7ff@mail.gmail.com>
References: <104F2CC9-216D-489B-A237-088AE344E36A@sent.com>	<361b27370604110759q2a975256w61487009077382a0@mail.gmail.com>	<08418201-AE52-4D65-9E04-3286622B60E7@sent.com>
	<c3aa55550604110854w3b46edf0y7fc9f4af4994c7ff@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <443BF5C4.8070007@colorstudy.com>

Michael Tobis wrote:
> I took the hint. The Monadnock is reserved for Thursday evening.
> 
> Room 826, 7 PM, 53 W Jackson Blvd.

Presenters should note that there's no network access.

-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org

From bray at sent.com  Tue Apr 11 21:25:23 2006
From: bray at sent.com (bray at sent.com)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 14:25:23 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Chicago Python Users Group Thurs April 13 at 7pm
Message-ID: <1144783523.18842.258867354@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Learn, share, and have fun at ChiPy's Monthly meeting this Thurs,
April 13 at 7pm.

This is sure to be our best meeting yet.  Confirm your attendance: 
mtobis aat gmail doot com with "ChiPy April" in your subject line.

Headliners
----------

*  httpy -- (Chad Whitacre) a sane and robust HTTP library.
    <http://www.zetadev.com/software/httpy/>

*  SCons -- (Atul) Software construction via Python.
    <http://www.scons.org/>

*  testosterone -- (Chad Whitacre) a curses-based testing interface.
    <http://www.zetadev.com/software/tesosterone/>

Module of the Month
-------------------

 * TBD in the near __future__ 

Location
--------
At the historic Monadnock Building, which in the 1890s was the 
tallest building in the world.

That's 53 W Jackson Blvd, room 826.

Here's a map:

<http://maps.google.com/maps?q=53+W+Jackson+Blvd,+Chicago,+IL>

It's right on the blue line, and two blocks from the red line, and 
walking distance to all of the Metra termini.

Cheap parking is a few blocks away at State and Harrison, more 
expensive parking is immediately adjacent on Federal between Jackson 
and Van Buren. Take the Eisenhower all the way in until it turns into 
Congress, and you'll be right in the neighborhood. Turn right on 
State or left on Federal if you are looking for the cheap or the 
convenient recommended parking lots respectively.

***NOTE: PLEASE EMAIL mtobis aat gmail doot com with "ChiPy April" in 
your subject line to confirm your attendance.


About ChiPy
-----------

ChiPy is a group of Chicago Python Programmers, l33t, and n00bs.
Meetings are held monthly at various locations around Chicago.
Also, ChiPy is a proud sponsor of many Open Source and Educational
efforts in Chicago. Stay tuned to the mailing list for more info.

ChiPy website: <http://chipy.org>
ChiPy Mailing List: <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago>
Python website: <http://python.org>

----

Forward this on.



From chad at zetaweb.com  Tue Apr 11 22:31:19 2006
From: chad at zetaweb.com (Chad Whitacre)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 16:31:19 -0400
Subject: [Chicago] confirmation re: April meeting
In-Reply-To: <c3aa55550604111123i37e598ffu63c8aa27164aab73@mail.gmail.com>
References: <443BCCC8.9030407@zetaweb.com>
	<c3aa55550604111123i37e598ffu63c8aa27164aab73@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <443C1217.106@zetaweb.com>

Michael,

Ok, thanks for the feedback. I see now that I missed a bunch of replies 
last month as well -- sorry to all and thanks for the compliments! (FWIW 
I've joined the list now).

I had hoped to take this opportunity to talk about httpy because IMO it 
isn't introduced as well as testosterone on the website. I've got 30 min 
on httpy that I'm hoping to whittle to 20 or so. As far as testosterone 
goes there are one or two tricks that aren't in the screencast that 
would be fun to share. I can talk all night, of course, but I'll be 
ready for both and we can play it by ear on Thursday.

Thanks all!



chad



Michael Tobis wrote:
> Chad,
> 
> We actually were thinking you would be able to present on your testing
> tool as well.
> 
> Otherwise we can try to scare someone up for "Module of the Month"
> 
> mt
> 
> 

From mtobis at gmail.com  Thu Apr 13 03:41:03 2006
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 20:41:03 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy RSVP by noon
Message-ID: <c3aa55550604121841o6bef8e1p9447a95b197fc55e@mail.gmail.com>

Hey, some of the regulars haven't responded yet.

Please let me know if you're planning to or thinking about attending
the ChiPy meeting tomorrow.

mt

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Thu Apr 13 04:15:48 2006
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 21:15:48 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy RSVP by noon
In-Reply-To: <c3aa55550604121841o6bef8e1p9447a95b197fc55e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c3aa55550604121841o6bef8e1p9447a95b197fc55e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0604121915g13faaf1em39a09b42bd6ad75a@mail.gmail.com>

Unfortunately, I can't make it.  I'm going to be in New York for the
day.  This is the second meeting in a row I haven't been able to be
at...I'm sort of bummed.

I swear, it's not because of my new found interest in Ruby...it's
work.  I still have lots of love for Pythoneers everywhere.

Chris

On 4/12/06, Michael Tobis <mtobis at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey, some of the regulars haven't responded yet.
>
> Please let me know if you're planning to or thinking about attending
> the ChiPy meeting tomorrow.
>
> mt
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From david at graniteweb.com  Thu Apr 13 22:09:57 2006
From: david at graniteweb.com (David Rock)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 15:09:57 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy RSVP by noon
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0604121915g13faaf1em39a09b42bd6ad75a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c3aa55550604121841o6bef8e1p9447a95b197fc55e@mail.gmail.com>
	<3096c19d0604121915g13faaf1em39a09b42bd6ad75a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060413200957.GB18232@wdfs.graniteweb.com>

* Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> [2006-04-12 21:15]:
> Unfortunately, I can't make it.  I'm going to be in New York for the
> day.  This is the second meeting in a row I haven't been able to be
> at...I'm sort of bummed.
> 
> I swear, it's not because of my new found interest in Ruby...it's
> work.  I still have lots of love for Pythoneers everywhere.

Yeah, I'm in the same boat.  

Dang.

-- 
David Rock
david at graniteweb.com

From tundra at tundraware.com  Thu Apr 13 22:13:58 2006
From: tundra at tundraware.com (Tim Daneliuk)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 15:13:58 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy RSVP by noon
In-Reply-To: <20060413200957.GB18232@wdfs.graniteweb.com>
References: <c3aa55550604121841o6bef8e1p9447a95b197fc55e@mail.gmail.com>	<3096c19d0604121915g13faaf1em39a09b42bd6ad75a@mail.gmail.com>
	<20060413200957.GB18232@wdfs.graniteweb.com>
Message-ID: <443EB106.8070403@tundraware.com>

David Rock wrote:

> * Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> [2006-04-12 21:15]:
> 
>>Unfortunately, I can't make it.  I'm going to be in New York for the
>>day.  This is the second meeting in a row I haven't been able to be
>>at...I'm sort of bummed.
>>
>>I swear, it's not because of my new found interest in Ruby...it's
>>work.  I still have lots of love for Pythoneers everywhere.
> 
> 
> Yeah, I'm in the same boat.  
> 
> Dang.
> 

As am I.  But this compounded by the fact that I am a suburban rat
and making a trip to the city at that time of day in a prompt manner
is, um,  daunting.

TOTALLY OFF TOPIC MATERIAL FOR YOUR AMUSEMENT FOLLOWS:

Oops...  http://cellar.org/iotd.php?threadid=10491

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk     tundra at tundraware.com
PGP Key:         http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/




From varmaa at gmail.com  Fri Apr 14 20:44:45 2006
From: varmaa at gmail.com (Atul Varma)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 13:44:45 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] SCons presentation slides, blog post
Message-ID: <361b27370604141144u221da0fakd34a9477fd2111a5@mail.gmail.com>

Hey All,

Just wanted to mention that I've put my SCons presentation slides
online if you're interested:

  http://www.humanized.com/presentations/scons/

And here's my blog post about SCons, if you missed the meeting and
want a general idea of why it might be useful:

  http://www.humanized.com/weblog/2006/04/13/humanizing_the_build_process_with_scons/

- Atul

From jason at hostedlabs.com  Thu Apr 20 15:40:42 2006
From: jason at hostedlabs.com (Jason Rexilius)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 08:40:42 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Roomba autonomy
Message-ID: <44478F5A.2060803@hostedlabs.com>

we can duct tape a phone to their backs and allow them to communicate
via SOAP with SkyNet... all in python..



http://research.nokia.com/research/projects/mobile-web-server/index.html

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Thu Apr 20 16:20:56 2006
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 09:20:56 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Roomba autonomy
In-Reply-To: <44478F5A.2060803@hostedlabs.com>
References: <44478F5A.2060803@hostedlabs.com>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0604200720h2e837b8eje4f954c952f96754@mail.gmail.com>

> http://research.nokia.com/research/projects/mobile-web-server/index.html

Ohhhh....that is neat.  I can't find a link on the page to download
the code though.  Am I missing something?

Chris

From PRobare at chx.com  Thu Apr 20 17:11:56 2006
From: PRobare at chx.com (Robare, Phil)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 10:11:56 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Roomba autonomy
Message-ID: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB6E5@MX3.chx.com>

I think you have to work for Nokia.  At the bottom of the page it says:

"Research Results

The code is currently free for use within Nokia."

Phil

-----Original Message-----
From: On Behalf Of Chris McAvoy
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Chicago] Roomba autonomy

>
http://research.nokia.com/research/projects/mobile-web-server/index.html

Ohhhh....that is neat.  I can't find a link on the page to download
the code though.  Am I missing something?

Chris

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Thu Apr 20 17:23:01 2006
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 10:23:01 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Roomba autonomy
In-Reply-To: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB6E5@MX3.chx.com>
References: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB6E5@MX3.chx.com>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0604200823i741664ceu5b6ade684ad809a5@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/20/06, Robare, Phil <PRobare at chx.com> wrote:
> The code is currently free for use within Nokia."

Ah...I got up to "the code is currently free" and then stopped reading.

Chris

From mtobis at gmail.com  Thu Apr 20 21:27:26 2006
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 14:27:26 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] [python-advocacy] Marketing Python - An Idea Whose
	Time Has Come
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0604201222010.8420@localhost.localdomain>
References: <5b53e6f12e4a006787a974b5f84c1748@semi-retired.com>
	<4408BD05.30907@movilogic.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0603060030020.7684@localhost.localdomain>
	<20060310185740.GA18418@lairds.us> <4412A4C7.8040305@taupro.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0604201222010.8420@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <c3aa55550604201227y24a769e5wdec66f7166100941@mail.gmail.com>

(cc: ChiPy. This follows on some discussion on the marketing-python list.)

Some thoughts:

THE MAIN ONE:

If the foundation has resources to put into this, I'd recommend
getting the services of a good design and promotion team. Our contacts
in the web business ought to serve us well in finding one. I think a
big part of the buzz that Ruby/Rails have picked up (let's face it,
largely at our expense) is due to the close interaction between the
core Ruby team and these people: http://www.coudal.com/ (wish we could
hire them!)

I would be willing to act on a search committee to find such a
company. I would request that members of the committee actually have
experience at a customer-driven web development company so that they
have developed some skills at identifying genuine design and marketing
talent. I think that will include sufficiently many pythoneers.

This pure marketing push is in my view necessary but not sufficient.
Progress on all fronts would be good. I like every one of Cameron's
suggestions. I think they are feasible but we have to energize the
community as a whole. This is also something that could benefit from a
marketing campaign of sorts.

Of course, the people who are interested in Python are exactly the
people who won't fall for meaningless hype. The hype has to be
attractive and meaningful and very very fun in a sort of sly sort of
way, because that's what suits our commnity and our language.

SOME OTHER THOUGHTS:

re: definition of success

The good/bad news is Ruby. The language is almost as nice as Python,
its user base is, while somewhat less broad, very enthusiastic, and
its community is extremely oriented toward a clean marketing package.
It is likely that many people are faced with the choice of Python or
Ruby, and like it or not we have to continue to win that decision over
half the time. That's my definition of success, and I suspect that
over the past year we may not have succeeded, at least in the
commercial sphere.

I don't think it will be the greatest catastrophe in history if we
fail; there are greater evils afoot in the world than Ruby. However,
ignoring the fact that there is a real competitor is not a good
approach.

> > Cameron Laird wrote:

> > 3. University people; seeding the college scene to get students to form
> > on-campus Python user groups, and lobbying the professors to give Python
> > airtime in classes.  Whether A -> B or B -> A is an open debate.  At PyCon it
> > was offered that until Python appears in the curriculum students won't use it
> > because they only want to learn skills with vocational value, and so
> > professors must drive the issue.  Others thought the students were in a good
> > position to lobby their school to teach Python, if not for credit then evening
> > talks and non-credit courses.

At Loyola University of Chicago, there are three Python advocates on a
small CS faculty and Python is used as the language of instruction on
a good fraction of the courses. And at the geophysics department at
the University of Chicago, Python is gaining ground on Matlab for
class-related computations. So locally the evidence is encouraging.

Also the following just appeared on the edu-sig list:

"""
Hello, my name is Christianna Lee and I am posting this e-mail on
behalf of Prentice Hall.  We are currently looking for qualified
professors to help us by reviewing proposals for textbook projects
using Python.  We are seeing a surge in the number of classes using
Python as a programming language and we are interested in creating
innovative and relevant texts to bolster this trend.

We would prefer professors who are currently teaching Python at a four
year college, but would be interested in hearing from anyone who feels
they are qualified to review Python-based pedagogical material.  If
you are interested, please e-mail me at this address with your name,
description of the classes you teach and/or your qualifications for
reviewing Python material.  Thank you so much and we look forward to
hearing from you!
"""

> > 4. This category got little coverage but I think it is key -- that of the
> > hobbyists or enthusiast.  Here at the Dallas Pythoneers, I run into a lot of
> > people who want to learn Python, are not professional programmers but still
> > skilled professionals in some field who want to learn something fun and
> > potentially useful.  This might also be the category for scientists and
> > (non-computer) engineers -- smart, professional but don't program for a
> > living.

I absolutely agree. Here again I have good news. The evidence is that
the pent-up desire to learn a dynamic language is very considerable.

I offerred a zero-fee ten-meeting course in Python for beginners. I
announced it on the main open source list in Chicago and the ChiPy
list exactly once each. I had so many people sign up I had to close
down the registration.

It's true you have to give up ten Saturdays to do something like this.
And it's true the Chicago metropolitan area has an enormous
population. But I put roughly zero effort into promoting this event!

mt

From Cameron at phaseit.net  Thu Apr 20 21:44:51 2006
From: Cameron at phaseit.net (Cameron Laird)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 19:44:51 +0000
Subject: [Chicago] [python-advocacy] Marketing Python - An Idea Whose
	Time Has Come
In-Reply-To: <c3aa55550604201227y24a769e5wdec66f7166100941@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5b53e6f12e4a006787a974b5f84c1748@semi-retired.com>
	<4408BD05.30907@movilogic.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0603060030020.7684@localhost.localdomain>
	<20060310185740.GA18418@lairds.us> <4412A4C7.8040305@taupro.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0604201222010.8420@localhost.localdomain>
	<c3aa55550604201227y24a769e5wdec66f7166100941@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060420194451.GA1177@lairds.us>

On Thu, Apr 20, 2006 at 02:27:26PM -0500, Michael Tobis wrote:
			.
			.
			.
> Progress on all fronts would be good. I like every one of Cameron's
> suggestions. I think they are feasible but we have to energize the
			.
			.
			.
I once again receive credit for work others have done.  I'm almost
certain the attributions became confused on the way to Michael, and
he thinks I suggested things actually written by others (including
Jeff, I suspect, without bothering to study the texts more).

From tim at pollenation.net  Thu Apr 20 22:21:15 2006
From: tim at pollenation.net (Tim Parkin)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 21:21:15 +0100
Subject: [Chicago] [python-advocacy] Marketing Python - An Idea Whose
	Time Has Come
In-Reply-To: <c3aa55550604201227y24a769e5wdec66f7166100941@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5b53e6f12e4a006787a974b5f84c1748@semi-retired.com>	<4408BD05.30907@movilogic.com>	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0603060030020.7684@localhost.localdomain>	<20060310185740.GA18418@lairds.us>
	<4412A4C7.8040305@taupro.com>	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0604201222010.8420@localhost.localdomain>
	<c3aa55550604201227y24a769e5wdec66f7166100941@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4447ED3B.4000408@pollenation.net>

Michael Tobis wrote:
> (cc: ChiPy. This follows on some discussion on the marketing-python list.)
> 
> Some thoughts:
> 
> THE MAIN ONE:
> 
> If the foundation has resources to put into this, I'd recommend
> getting the services of a good design and promotion team. Our contacts
> in the web business ought to serve us well in finding one. I think a
> big part of the buzz that Ruby/Rails have picked up (let's face it,
> largely at our expense) is due to the close interaction between the
> core Ruby team and these people: http://www.coudal.com/ (wish we could
> hire them!)

Do you mean 37 Signals as the people who seem to be pushing Ruby the
most (see www.vitamin.com, basecamp, tada lists, etc)?  (let me know if
I'm wrong, I just haven't seen Coudal in relation to Ruby much)

The Ruby propoganda has travelled mostly on the back of rails as far as
I can tell (everyone I know that isn't a programmer seem to think Ruby
is Rails and vice versa).

Python.org can never be (and never should be) a
http://www.rubyonrails.org/ because it is a language and not a product.

The parralel in Ruby would be http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/ which I'm
sure hasn't been the pivotal in Ruby's current exposure levels.

So in order to parralel Ruby's success we need a monolithic web
framework backed by a commercial company and network of bloggers who all
are experienced in self and product promotion through word of mouth
networks? I personally can't see that happening and I'm pretty sure it
wouldn't be a good thing anyway.

It seems the problem is that the python.org website is very
non-marketing and non-opinionated and hence can't act as an evangalist
for anything apart from standard library code because of the danger of
appearing biased (for instance, the recommendation of one IDE over
another could raise some obvious problems.)

Should there be a new website for python that promotes python directly
and is not afraid to pick make some hard recommendations on things such
as 'if you want a simple web framework, use this. if you want to process
xml, use this?'. Will the PSF, who have taken community contributions,
be seen as traitorous to certain projects if they make the decision that
they aren't the best?

I'm all for developing a website that provides some solid
recommendations on a programming environment and standard tools to use
but it's going to create a big stir if it happens.

Tim Parkin


From sdeibel at wingware.com  Thu Apr 20 22:27:19 2006
From: sdeibel at wingware.com (sdeibel)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 16:27:19 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Chicago] [python-advocacy] Marketing Python - An Idea Whose
	Time Has Come
In-Reply-To: <c3aa55550604201227y24a769e5wdec66f7166100941@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5b53e6f12e4a006787a974b5f84c1748@semi-retired.com>
	<4408BD05.30907@movilogic.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0603060030020.7684@localhost.localdomain>
	<20060310185740.GA18418@lairds.us> <4412A4C7.8040305@taupro.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0604201222010.8420@localhost.localdomain>
	<c3aa55550604201227y24a769e5wdec66f7166100941@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0604201619310.8420@localhost.localdomain>

On Thu, 20 Apr 2006, Michael Tobis wrote:
> If the foundation has resources to put into this, I'd recommend
> getting the services of a good design and promotion team.

Sure, we need good graphic design for some of the materials
Jeff enumerated.  I'm less clear on how we would find an overall 
promotion team and exactly what value they would add.

BTW, the PSF did pay for the website redesign (well, part of 
it), so we're not complete strangers to this concept.

> The good/bad news is Ruby.

In terms of the size of the user base, it's still tiny.  Noisy, 
perhaps, but tiny.  ;-)  But I think it's entirely valid to worry 
that this could change if Python fails to muster some of the 
advocacy energy that Ruby has.

> I offerred a zero-fee ten-meeting course in Python for beginners. I
> announced it on the main open source list in Chicago and the ChiPy
> list exactly once each. I had so many people sign up I had to close
> down the registration.

This sounds like a great resource.  Can you share the course 
materials?  If so, can we put them on python.org?

Thanks,

- Stephan


From mtobis at gmail.com  Thu Apr 20 22:49:51 2006
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 15:49:51 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] [python-advocacy] Marketing Python - An Idea Whose
	Time Has Come
In-Reply-To: <4447ED3B.4000408@pollenation.net>
References: <5b53e6f12e4a006787a974b5f84c1748@semi-retired.com>
	<4408BD05.30907@movilogic.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0603060030020.7684@localhost.localdomain>
	<20060310185740.GA18418@lairds.us> <4412A4C7.8040305@taupro.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0604201222010.8420@localhost.localdomain>
	<c3aa55550604201227y24a769e5wdec66f7166100941@mail.gmail.com>
	<4447ED3B.4000408@pollenation.net>
Message-ID: <c3aa55550604201349j4ddb31b4v4d9ee2fb21d3f918@mail.gmail.com>

My point is not that we need a "killer app" like Rails, nor is it
about HOW the Ruby community picked up their promotional skills.
(You'd have to give the Pragmatic guys some credit too, as well as the
Coudal/37 signals/Rails axis.)

The point is, if there is Foundation money for this, one of the things
that ought to be considered is hiring or allying with some marketing
professionals to see what they could do for us. (Or are there already
some reading this?)

Maybe the whole idea is so alien to the culture as to be infeasible,
but I think it's worth considering.

re Tim's suggestions:

I don't know as python.org or the PSF ought to recommend one framework
or tool over another, but the idea of putting more effort into
organizing the options in a meaningful way is a very good one.
Especially in the web frameworks space.

After three years as a python programmer and two years as a python
fanatic, I still would have no idea which tools to pick up to do what.
A good friend who runs a Perl web shop told me he had the impression
that Python had nothing to compare with Rails.

yet another time-consuming suggestion:

Make the docs more useful! (Yes it's nothing new, but it ought to be
represented on the list.)

Python is so powerful that coding is much easier than documentation!
While this is a good problem to have that doesn't mean we shouldn't
try to solve it.

mt

From mtobis at gmail.com  Thu Apr 20 22:57:35 2006
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 15:57:35 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] [python-advocacy] Marketing Python - An Idea Whose
	Time Has Come
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0604201619310.8420@localhost.localdomain>
References: <5b53e6f12e4a006787a974b5f84c1748@semi-retired.com>
	<4408BD05.30907@movilogic.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0603060030020.7684@localhost.localdomain>
	<20060310185740.GA18418@lairds.us> <4412A4C7.8040305@taupro.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0604201222010.8420@localhost.localdomain>
	<c3aa55550604201227y24a769e5wdec66f7166100941@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0604201619310.8420@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <c3aa55550604201357s2955b518s51b17aa344caed@mail.gmail.com>

I'll be happy to share my materials as they are developed. We're only
having the second meeting next Saturday.

I think I spent too much time on abstractions, and will definitely
trim the introductory material, but you can see what I walked into the
first session with here:

http://webpages.cs.luc.edu/~mt/pyfl/pyfl.html

The choice of exercise was intended to be an approach to the smallest
expression of the power of abstraction.

I plan to clean up and rework this material. If the group maintains
momentum I should have more soon.

mt

> > I offerred a zero-fee ten-meeting course in Python for beginners. I
> > announced it on the main open source list in Chicago and the ChiPy
> > list exactly once each. I had so many people sign up I had to close
> > down the registration.
>
> This sounds like a great resource.  Can you share the course
> materials?  If so, can we put them on python.org?
>
> Thanks,
>
> - Stephan

From lucio at movilogic.com  Thu Apr 20 22:54:08 2006
From: lucio at movilogic.com (Lucio Torre)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 17:54:08 -0300
Subject: [Chicago] [python-advocacy] Marketing Python - An Idea Whose
	Time Has Come
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0604201619310.8420@localhost.localdomain>
References: <5b53e6f12e4a006787a974b5f84c1748@semi-retired.com>	<4408BD05.30907@movilogic.com>	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0603060030020.7684@localhost.localdomain>	<20060310185740.GA18418@lairds.us>
	<4412A4C7.8040305@taupro.com>	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0604201222010.8420@localhost.localdomain>	<c3aa55550604201227y24a769e5wdec66f7166100941@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0604201619310.8420@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <4447F4F0.3070106@movilogic.com>

sdeibel wrote:

>On Thu, 20 Apr 2006, Michael Tobis wrote:
>  
>
>>The good/bad news is Ruby.
>>    
>>
>
>In terms of the size of the user base, it's still tiny.  Noisy, 
>perhaps, but tiny.  ;-)  But I think it's entirely valid to worry 
>that this could change if Python fails to muster some of the 
>advocacy energy that Ruby has.
>
>  
>
This reminds me of a quote from bill gates, that went something like this: "When will people undestand that our problem is IBM, not Google!".

And this is a very similar situation. Ruby is smaller, louder, but smaller. Should python care about growing or about not letting anyone grow on its turf?

Off course, this comment is like opening the box of pandora of flames, but with this in mind, the "ruby problem" looks easier, just put some money on turbogears. They are loud, they are fancy, they can promote python for web.

With that problem solved, we can worry about the jackpot, whatever that is.

Lucio.

Some notes: 
you want bigger fish to fry than ruby? There are lots of web hosting companies that offer mod_php but no mod_python. There goes our chance at big time web exposure. (how many do offer mod_ruby or whatever its called?)




From varmaa at gmail.com  Fri Apr 21 00:36:23 2006
From: varmaa at gmail.com (Atul Varma)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 17:36:23 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] [python-advocacy] Marketing Python - An Idea Whose
	Time Has Come
In-Reply-To: <c3aa55550604201349j4ddb31b4v4d9ee2fb21d3f918@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5b53e6f12e4a006787a974b5f84c1748@semi-retired.com>
	<4408BD05.30907@movilogic.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0603060030020.7684@localhost.localdomain>
	<20060310185740.GA18418@lairds.us> <4412A4C7.8040305@taupro.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0604201222010.8420@localhost.localdomain>
	<c3aa55550604201227y24a769e5wdec66f7166100941@mail.gmail.com>
	<4447ED3B.4000408@pollenation.net>
	<c3aa55550604201349j4ddb31b4v4d9ee2fb21d3f918@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <361b27370604201536s52ba4172v71979b8dc849778f@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/20/06, Michael Tobis <mtobis at gmail.com> wrote:
> yet another time-consuming suggestion:
>
> Make the docs more useful! (Yes it's nothing new, but it ought to be
> represented on the list.)
>
> Python is so powerful that coding is much easier than documentation!
> While this is a good problem to have that doesn't mean we shouldn't
> try to solve it.

This is at the root of what I don't like about a lot of Python
packages.  I've heard some Python people refer to good documentation
as being "newbie-friendly" or "marketing-friendly", but I think of it
as just being, well, humane.

When I'm looking at a lot of Python packages--especially the web
development ones--because of their sparse and often inconsistent
documentation, they feel like they're unfinished products that are
still works-in-progress.  They don't "just work"; doing anything
nontrivial with them almost always involves tripping over outdated
documentation or code, or running into empty pages of text with TODO's
on them saying "we need to write this!".

As I believe Chad mentioned at the last ChiPy meeting, Zope has been
changing its API around so much since its original release that making
a basic web application with it is now an intimidating exercise in
frustration.

Before a product can be marketed well, it actually has to be a great
product to begin with.  And that doesn't just mean that it has to be
bug-free, which is already the case with most Python web frameworks
I've seen.  What it means is that good documentation and simple APIs
are actually *prerequisites* to good marketing.  Open-source products
like FreeType with long-term reputations for great documentation and
API stability are certainly ready for prime-time marketing, but
poorly-documented products with volatile or confusing APIs--like most
of the Python web frameworks I've seen--aren't.

People like me aren't avoiding Python web development frameworks
because there's too many of them.  They're avoiding the frameworks
because all of them are actually really confusing in one way or
another.  That's why a lot of people end up rolling their own, because
doing that is a lot easier than wading through and dealing with any of
the other Python-based solutions they see.

- Atul

From pfein at pobox.com  Fri Apr 21 02:06:16 2006
From: pfein at pobox.com (Peter Fein)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 19:06:16 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] [python-advocacy] Marketing Python - An Idea Whose
	Time Has Come
In-Reply-To: <361b27370604201536s52ba4172v71979b8dc849778f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5b53e6f12e4a006787a974b5f84c1748@semi-retired.com>
	<c3aa55550604201349j4ddb31b4v4d9ee2fb21d3f918@mail.gmail.com>
	<361b27370604201536s52ba4172v71979b8dc849778f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200604201906.16932.pfein@pobox.com>

On Thursday 20 April 2006 05:36 pm, Atul Varma wrote:
> On 4/20/06, Michael Tobis <mtobis at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Python is so powerful that coding is much easier than documentation!
> > While this is a good problem to have that doesn't mean we shouldn't
> > try to solve it.

True. Though things like http://epydoc.sf.net/ are a nice addition.

> This is at the root of what I don't like about a lot of Python
> packages.  I've heard some Python people refer to good documentation
> as being "newbie-friendly" or "marketing-friendly", but I think of it
> as just being, well, humane.

I just want to get work done.

> When I'm looking at a lot of Python packages--especially the web
> development ones--because of their sparse and often inconsistent
> documentation, they feel like they're unfinished products that are
> still works-in-progress.  They don't "just work"; doing anything
> nontrivial with them almost always involves tripping over outdated
> documentation or code, or running into empty pages of text with TODO's
> on them saying "we need to write this!".

True, though I want to be able to read and modify the source.  Python code 
lets me do that much more easily than PHP.  The fact that most Python modules 
(esp. the standard library) are written *in python* instead of C is a big 
win.

> People like me aren't avoiding Python web development frameworks
> because there's too many of them.  They're avoiding the frameworks
> because all of them are actually really confusing in one way or
> another.  That's why a lot of people end up rolling their own, because
> doing that is a lot easier than wading through and dealing with any of
> the other Python-based solutions they see.

We're going with http://nick.borko.org/pse/

-- 
Peter Fein                                                     pfein at pobox.com
773-575-0694                                      Jabber: peter.fein at gmail.com
http://pfein.blogspot.com/                       irc://irc.freenode.net/#chipy

From todd at slack.net  Fri Apr 21 17:29:43 2006
From: todd at slack.net (Todd Grimason)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 11:29:43 -0400
Subject: [Chicago] [python-advocacy] Marketing Python - An Idea Whose
	Time Has Come
In-Reply-To: <4447ED3B.4000408@pollenation.net>
References: <5b53e6f12e4a006787a974b5f84c1748@semi-retired.com>
	<4408BD05.30907@movilogic.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0603060030020.7684@localhost.localdomain>
	<20060310185740.GA18418@lairds.us> <4412A4C7.8040305@taupro.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0604201222010.8420@localhost.localdomain>
	<c3aa55550604201227y24a769e5wdec66f7166100941@mail.gmail.com>
	<4447ED3B.4000408@pollenation.net>
Message-ID: <20060421152943.GA20705@detroit.slack.net>

* Tim Parkin [2006-04-21 10:47]:
 
> The Ruby propoganda has travelled mostly on the back of rails as far as
> I can tell (everyone I know that isn't a programmer seem to think Ruby
> is Rails and vice versa).
> 
> Python.org can never be (and never should be) a
> http://www.rubyonrails.org/ because it is a language and not a product.
> 

[snip]

Tim's post is dead-on -- and the "language not a product" observation is
key. 

That said, Ruby itself (at least among developers) has been getting much
more attention than it previously was, mostly if not entirely driven by
Rails -- a product. 

Now of course there are lots more "big" products written in Python, but
a key thing about Rails is it's a "web" product. I get the sense many
Python-folk spend time writing massively parallel, scientific or crazy
math stuff I could never hope to understand -- nor could the many
work-a-day developers out there who drive book sales, corporate
adoption, and then academic adoption. They are more and more working
with web development (or at least bolting on a web frontend), and for
example Tim O'Reilly recently posted they saw the biggest increase in
web dev books, around 20% (somewhere on radar.oreilly.com). Ian Bicking
also described this in a weblog post a few months ago. If you're doing
scientific calculations in a uni lab, book sales and visibilty are
probably(?) not so important to you.

So I'm making sweeping generalizations and meandering a bit -- but
clearly web development has a very large impact on "public" awareness of
a language. Bittorrent, Google using it inside, NASA, etc., are nice and
well, but do not provide visibility in the "check out this app, it's
really well done, and written in Python" sort of way that public web
apps do. And saying 8 gazillion people use Bittorrent is kind of
meaningless in that most of them have no idea it's written in Python and
couldn't care less what it's written in as long as they can find that
song they heard on the radio.

As it's unlikely any library/framework in the web space will ever be
"blessed", whatever the pros or cons of doing so, the product approach
seems a non-starter. So there's the other successful path -- ubiquity --
a la PHP. This I think is was Ian was getting at, and I believe efforts
at WSGI are (partially at least) aimed at -- vastly improving the
"deployability" and ease for ISPs and such to deploy Python webapps.
This seems the best possible way, esp considering Rails has helped push
lighttpd and more flexible Apache setups into more ISPs, but Rails
itself is still no picnic to setup for beginners. They are working on
this ('mongrel' for example), and at this point it looks like they might
have a widely-used, supported (it is getting funding from some companies
for development as well) deployment solution before Python. Leapfrogging
Rails on deployment, and/or "composite apps" (lots of little apps
without 5 entire Rails setups for example) might be a fruitful path.

Anyhow, that's some thoughts from a more casual Python user, which while
I can't argue on the best implementation in core for immutable sets or
whatever, I think I can provide some decent "how it looks from here"
input. Or at least I hope so. Of course, it's short on answers. But
maybe some ideas can come of it.



-- 

________________________________
toddgrimason*todd[ at ]slack.net



From joebaker at dcresearch.com  Mon Apr 24 18:35:37 2006
From: joebaker at dcresearch.com (Joe Baker)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 11:35:37 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] [python-advocacy] Marketing Python - An Idea
	Whose	Time Has Come
In-Reply-To: <mailman.35.1145700010.8712.chicago@python.org>
References: <mailman.35.1145700010.8712.chicago@python.org>
Message-ID: <444CFE59.3000400@dcresearch.com>

I've been subscribed to the list for a month or so.  One Python project
which I'd like to learn to use it TurboGears.org.  It seems promising.

I know I can learn Python, I've written small system admin tasks with
it.  So I have confidence that I could maintain a TurboGears product.

Anyway, I'd like to see a presentation about Turbogears if anybody there
is using it.  It seems that there is much to explore in the whole XML
web services arena and that TurboGears is poised to be a great
OpenSource Python tool for implementing a Service Oriented Architecture.

I'm from Burlington, Wisconsin. http://www.burlingtonlinux.org .
Thanks!

-Joe Baker
 Network Administrator
 NEL Frequency Controls, Inc.



From fawad at fawad.net  Tue Apr 25 16:25:06 2006
From: fawad at fawad.net (Fawad Halim)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 09:25:06 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Chicago] [Fwd: [LUNI] ANN: April Uniforum Chicago general meeting]
Message-ID: <48705.24.15.18.66.1145975106.squirrel@home.fawad.net>

FYI. This might be interesting for those wanting to get started with
Subversion, or had question about it but were afraid to ask.

Regards
-fawad

---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: [LUNI] ANN: April Uniforum Chicago general meeting
From:    "Jeff Jirsa" <jjirsasprint at earthlink.net>
Date:    Mon, April 24, 2006 22:17
To:      "Luni Announcements" <luni-announce at luni.org>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Folks, here is the info for tomorrow's meeting.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
                   Subversion: Building a Better CVS

                         Brian W. Fitzpatrick

                Tuesday, April 25th, 2006, 7:00-9:00pm
 Illinois Institute of Technology, Rice Campus, Wheaton, IL, Room 103

Abstract
--------
CVS's development model is the backbone of the open source movement;
Subversion has taken that model and redesigned the technology behind it to
provide us with an immensely more powerful tool for writing software.  In
this session, we'll cover the history of CVS and Subversion, Subversion's
similarities (and differences) with CVS, migrating from CVS to Subversion,
and, lastly, the future direction of Subversion.

Speaker Bio
-----------
Brian W. Fitzpatrick is a software engineer at Google, working
on their open source efforts.  Prior to that, Brian worked for
CollabNet on Subversion and related version control tools.  He also
worked at Apple as a senior engineer in the education and professional
services divisions.  He is a member of the Apache Software Foundation,
a Subversion developer since 2000, and a co-author of the O'Reilly book
"Version Control with Subversion."  Personal information can be found
at http://www.red-bean.com/fitz/

Getting There
-------------
The next meeting of UniForum Chicago will be from 7:00 pm to 9:00 pm
on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 at the Illinois Institute of Technology
Rice campus.  The address of the meeting facility is:

        IIT's Rice Campus
        Room 103
        201 East Loop Road,
        Wheaton, Illinois 60187

Take I-88 to the Naperville Road exit.  Go North on Naperville Road
to Butterfield/Rt. 56.  Turn right on Butterfield and proceed East to
the next stoplight East (East Loop Road).  Turn north onto East Loop
Road (Big Bowl/Cozymel's Restaurants and Phillip's 66 Gas Station on
the corners); the campus will be on your right about a block north of
Butterfield Road.  Park in the student parking lot behind the building.
Room 103 is the first room inside the north entrance.  More detailed
directions and maps are available at:

        http://www.rice.iit.edu/directions.html
        http://www.rice.iit.edu/floorplan.html

All UniForum Chicago general meetings are open to the public free of charge.

For additional information contact Scott Nemec at (630) 990-6265 or
president at uniforum.chi.il.us, or visit the UniForum Chicago web site at:
	http://www.uniforum.chi.il.us/

-- 
Linux Users Of Northern Illinois - Announcements Mailing List
http://luni.org/mailman/listinfo/luni-announce
-- 
Linux Users Of Northern Illinois - Technical Discussion
http://luni.org/mailman/listinfo/luni
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From mtobis at gmail.com  Wed Apr 26 18:18:11 2006
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 11:18:11 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Second Python Newbies' meeting Saturday
Message-ID: <c3aa55550604260918h2aa7b54fte0a6cfeab3c2b386@mail.gmail.com>

There will be a second "Python for Newbies"/Python as a first language
meeting at the Monadnockthis Saturday at 9AM, and thereafter
approximately every other
Saturday.

I'm not expecting 100% turnout, so I'll accept up to eight new
participants, first come first served.

53 West Jackson Blvd room 826 Saturday May 29 9 AM

It is necessary to confirm in advance and bring ID. Reply to me at

mtobis aat gmail dott com

before noon on Froday the 28th

The prerequisites aren't very difficult. You must bring a laptop with
python 2.3 or better on it, and know how to write code into a file and
execute it. We have covered strings, ints, lists, the range operator
and the for block, so if you can get that far on your own, feel free
to join us.

Also Robert Ramsdell joined in the fun last time. If any other
experienced Pythonista with an interest in education wants to show up,
please feel welcome.

mt
==
Michael Tobis

From adam at battleaxe.net  Wed Apr 26 18:44:47 2006
From: adam at battleaxe.net (Adam Israel)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 11:44:47 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Richard Stallman lecture on Friday at 11AM
In-Reply-To: <c3aa55550604260918h2aa7b54fte0a6cfeab3c2b386@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c3aa55550604260918h2aa7b54fte0a6cfeab3c2b386@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <444FA37F.6000300@battleaxe.net>

I'm new to the list, but I thought I'd pass this along.  I'm not a huge
RMS fan, but I figure it's worth listening to his talk at least once.

He's going to be at UIC on Friday at 11AM.

http://www1.cs.uic.edu/CSweb/public/news.php?audience=public&label=&ind=153


-- 
Adam M. Israel
adam at battleaxe.net

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From brian at planetshwoop.com  Wed Apr 26 19:28:13 2006
From: brian at planetshwoop.com (Brian Sobolak)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:28:13 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Chicago] Richard Stallman lecture on Friday at 11AM
In-Reply-To: <444FA37F.6000300@battleaxe.net>
References: <c3aa55550604260918h2aa7b54fte0a6cfeab3c2b386@mail.gmail.com>
	<444FA37F.6000300@battleaxe.net>
Message-ID: <51085.4.17.250.5.1146072493.squirrel@webmail.psys.org>


Adam Israel wrote:
> I'm new to the list, but I thought I'd pass this along.  I'm not a huge
> RMS fan, but I figure it's worth listening to his talk at least once.
>
> He's going to be at UIC on Friday at 11AM.
>

Some of us from UFO-Chicago (Linux group) are going, and hope to grab a
bite together afterwards.  Contact me off-list if you're interested.

brian


--
Brian Sobolak
http://www.planetshwoop.com/


From chris at copester.com  Wed Apr 26 18:33:14 2006
From: chris at copester.com (Chris Cope)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 11:33:14 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Richard Stallman lecture on Friday at 11AM
In-Reply-To: <444FA37F.6000300@battleaxe.net>
References: <c3aa55550604260918h2aa7b54fte0a6cfeab3c2b386@mail.gmail.com>
	<444FA37F.6000300@battleaxe.net>
Message-ID: <444FA0CA.8060209@copester.com>

I'd definately recommend it as something checking out if you havn't 
heard him speak. The couple times I've seen him (all at CS departments), 
he's given the identical talk.

Chris

Adam Israel wrote:
> I'm new to the list, but I thought I'd pass this along.  I'm not a huge
> RMS fan, but I figure it's worth listening to his talk at least once.
> 
> He's going to be at UIC on Friday at 11AM.
> 
> http://www1.cs.uic.edu/CSweb/public/news.php?audience=public&label=&ind=153
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From mtobis at gmail.com  Fri Apr 28 18:33:12 2006
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 11:33:12 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] next ChiPy meeting
Message-ID: <c3aa55550604280933o4a8bd9c9j7bfcf11262c1122f@mail.gmail.com>

I can't attend the next meeting and therefore can't offer the
Monadnock conference room.

mt

From jason at hostedlabs.com  Fri Apr 28 18:38:57 2006
From: jason at hostedlabs.com (Jason Rexilius)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 11:38:57 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] next ChiPy meeting
In-Reply-To: <c3aa55550604280933o4a8bd9c9j7bfcf11262c1122f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c3aa55550604280933o4a8bd9c9j7bfcf11262c1122f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <44524521.5000202@hostedlabs.com>

You should try the ITA, they have space and already host a number of
meetings..

contact Sarah at:

Sarah Habansky
Manager, Programs and Events
Direct: (312) 924-1077
shabansky at illinoistech.org

> I can't attend the next meeting and therefore can't offer the
> Monadnock conference room.
> 
> mt
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From JRHuggins at thoughtworks.COM  Fri Apr 28 21:48:26 2006
From: JRHuggins at thoughtworks.COM (Jason R Huggins)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 14:48:26 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] next ChiPy meeting
In-Reply-To: <c3aa55550604280933o4a8bd9c9j7bfcf11262c1122f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <OFB66A51B6.ECAFAA41-ON8625715E.006CAF6D-8625715E.006CCF48@thoughtworks.com>

Michael Tobis wrote on 04/28/2006 11:33:12 AM:
> I can't attend the next meeting and therefore can't offer the
> Monadnock conference room.

Anyone want to have it ThoughtWorks again? (free pizza and pop, hint, 
hint)

- Jason

From mtobis at gmail.com  Sat Apr 29 01:23:16 2006
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 18:23:16 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] python ** 2
Message-ID: <c3aa55550604281623k7fd4d8e3na1bb559497dc8614@mail.gmail.com>

Is there any interest in a Python/Python evening to catch Spamalot
while it is back in town?

I think we might show up en masse in Chipmonk costumes...  anyone have
code that scans as a Gregorian chant?

mt

From jason at hostedlabs.com  Sat Apr 29 01:25:47 2006
From: jason at hostedlabs.com (Jason Rexilius)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 18:25:47 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] python ** 2
In-Reply-To: <c3aa55550604281623k7fd4d8e3na1bb559497dc8614@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c3aa55550604281623k7fd4d8e3na1bb559497dc8614@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4452A47B.2070201@hostedlabs.com>

Id be very concerned if more than one of you had chipmonk costumes...


> Is there any interest in a Python/Python evening to catch Spamalot
> while it is back in town?
> 
> I think we might show up en masse in Chipmonk costumes...  anyone have
> code that scans as a Gregorian chant?
> 
> mt
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From maney at two14.net  Sat Apr 29 05:00:19 2006
From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 22:00:19 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] python ** 2
In-Reply-To: <4452A47B.2070201@hostedlabs.com>
References: <c3aa55550604281623k7fd4d8e3na1bb559497dc8614@mail.gmail.com>
	<4452A47B.2070201@hostedlabs.com>
Message-ID: <20060429030019.GA26404@furrr.two14.net>

On Fri, Apr 28, 2006 at 06:25:47PM -0500, Jason Rexilius wrote:
> Id be very concerned if more than one of you had chipmonk costumes...

Scarier: there's only one costume, and we time-share it...

-- 
Anyone who calls economics the dismal science
has never been exposed to educationist theories
at any length.  An hour or two is a surfeit.


From david at graniteweb.com  Sat Apr 29 22:40:18 2006
From: david at graniteweb.com (David Rock)
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 15:40:18 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] python ** 2
In-Reply-To: <20060429030019.GA26404@furrr.two14.net>
References: <c3aa55550604281623k7fd4d8e3na1bb559497dc8614@mail.gmail.com>
	<4452A47B.2070201@hostedlabs.com>
	<20060429030019.GA26404@furrr.two14.net>
Message-ID: <20060429204017.GA31133@wdfs.graniteweb.com>

* Martin Maney <maney at two14.net> [2006-04-28 22:00]:
> On Fri, Apr 28, 2006 at 06:25:47PM -0500, Jason Rexilius wrote:
> > Id be very concerned if more than one of you had chipmonk costumes...
> 
> Scarier: there's only one costume, and we time-share it...

Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

-- 
David Rock
david at graniteweb.com